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Learn Around Whom The Antepenultimate ANGEL Revolves!!

I am – Hercules!!

Thanks to all of Harry's exciting new movie reviews clogging up the site, it's taken a little longer than usual to post what we've learned from the latest batch of "Angel" casting pages that began circulating on Monday.

* It turns out 5.20 is all about Buffy Summers.

* Seems that Angel and Spike, while on a seemingly unrelated mission in Italy, learn that somebody they’ve known for 110 years is in Rome, dating the former Sunnydale slayer!

* It looks like Michelle Trachtenberg will appear in the episode as Dawn Summers. Buffy’s in it too, but it’s unclear whether she’ll be played by Sarah Michelle Gellar, or a fleetingly glimpsed stunt double, or both.

* The vamps get a little staff support from Wolfram’s office in Italy.

* Meanwhile, back in Los Angeles, we learn that Illyria has learned to impersonate Fred so capably she can fool even the girl’s parents.

I am – Hercules!!

It’s “Wonderfalls” Week!! Herc says it’s the season’s best new show!! 9 p.m. Friday!! Fox!!

Looking for bumper stickers, plush toys and girls’ underwear covered with cartoon double-amputees? Visit The Herc Store!

Readers Talkback
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  • March 10, 2004, 4:13 a.m. CST

    First Muhahaha

    by Bataar

    I hope they get SMG to repreise her roll. I hated Dawn.

  • March 10, 2004, 5:07 a.m. CST

    More importantly, WHY is it about Buffy?

    by TheDevilsBidness

    The people who worked on "Angel" worked their asses off and did a great job of getting out of the shadow of "Buffy The Vampire Slayer". "Angel" has established it's own tone, atmosphere, and style, and it goes against the grain to have one of the last shows revolve around Buffy. Hey, guys and dolls, she HAD her show for seven years - move on. The people who successfully strived to give this series it's own voice should have their due. Just because the two series share the same universe doesn't make them interchangable. The folks who have made "Angel" what it is should have exclusivity on the series' final episodes. It's just the right thing to do.

  • March 10, 2004, 5:39 a.m. CST


    by BLADE

    "It makes me laugh, and feel pity, all at once." Ahhh..thats funny!....Anyway, great to see Dawn again as she is turnng out to be a hotty.

  • March 10, 2004, 7:02 a.m. CST

    WHY is it about Buffy?Well, I tell ya

    by Judge Doom

    Because she is the reason this show exists that

  • March 10, 2004, 7:19 a.m. CST


    by BLADE

    Buffy Hotter! How can this be! Harmony>Buffy---Cordelia(Angel Season 1-3)>Buffy---Faith>Buffy---Darla>Buffy---Buffy>Drusila---Amy the Witch>Buffy---Electro Girl>Buffy---Fred>or=Buffy---Willow<Buffy(up to season 5)then Willow>Buffy---Werewolf Girl>Buffy---Jenny Calendar>Buffy---Joyce<Buffy---Dawn<Buffy---Glory>Buffy....Discuss

  • March 10, 2004, 8:16 a.m. CST


    by raw_bean

    There have been Buffy Episodes all about Angel, why on Earth shouldn't there be an Angel episode about Buffy? She is such an important character to TWO of the main characters on Angel now, it would actually be more of a disservice to Angel's and Spike's characters to NOT deal with Buffy before the (possible?) end of the show.

  • March 10, 2004, 8:19 a.m. CST

    The show doesn't "Revolve" around Buffy, just gives her closure.

    by SpeakerWiggin

    It's not "about buffy" Look. She's dating "The Immortal" an old bad guy. They think maybe it's a spell.... It's a red herring (i think) Spike and Angel, in order to work together HAVE TO GET OVER BUFFY. So she HAS to move on. Can't be another vamp or it's just a rebound. Can't be a human....remember Riley. This guy, the immortal, has everything they have, immortality, previous bad, super strength, and everything they don't have, can go out in day light, can help buffy kill vamps, he even has a special vamp killing power. This guy is the ultimate buffy boyfriend. So I'm guessing when they see dawn, she sets them straight and they decide not to bug her and move on. Incidently the show revolves around them going to italy to retrieve a head for a ritual back home. So I think they go home w/ the head after that to do the ritual. That's just my thoughts.

  • March 10, 2004, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Spike has a beer and cheats on Angel

    by LargoJr

    Im sorry, but I tried seeral times to 'get' Buffy T.V.S. , but aside from the movie being ok.. the series sucked :(... also tried several times to see wtf was the deal with Angel.. and again. pretty sucky. Paper thin plots with asswipe for character development and intrigue... I think I could have more fun masterbating with a cheese grater, but would rather go OUT and have fun.

  • March 10, 2004, 9:18 a.m. CST

    When did you try to get into buffy and angel?

    by SpeakerWiggin

    and how many eps did you watch? The series, both of them, have spectacular writing, but the problem is . . . there are also some eps that are mostly "fun" that unless your a fan, you'll think is stupid. For fans the puppet ep was GREAT, but anyone who's introduction to angel was that ep would deffinitely be like "what the hell is THIS crap!?" If you watch it you gotta watch from the beginning. My least favorite seasons of both shows are seasons 1, both start off fast with 2 and once they hit 3 man....damn...they rock (not to knowck seasons one and two...just not my favs...still like them).......season 5 of Angel has rocked ...but you have to start from scratch.... Or you might just not like it *shrugs*

  • March 10, 2004, 9:29 a.m. CST

    So the WB is waffling?

    by zer0cool2k2

    Haven't heard anything, what's going on with Angel and the WB? I've been to busy getting pissed about Dish Network dropping all the CBS/Viacom channels. ............. And speaking of Riley, I watched "Prey for Rock and Roll" last night (mainly just cuz' I dig Gina Gershon and her Joker mouth), and Blucas is in it, all covered in tattoos. Almost didn't hate him. almost.

  • March 10, 2004, 9:43 a.m. CST


    by SpeakerWiggin

    supposedly there are "behind closed doors" talks because they couldn't ignore the millions of post cards sent to their offices. But it's only reported in message boards...well IGN film force reported it, but from the message boards. The people who are reporting it are 98% accurate though so people are excited. Nothing technically confirmed yet though.

  • March 10, 2004, 9:46 a.m. CST

    WB is talking about Angel.

    by mrfan

    I heard that the talks are not going good though. But you never know though. The only thing I see is having a short season to really wrap things up. The WB will probably want to make it short and sweet. Also, the ratings have been decent but not great. So, that may play a factor. They started off good and slowly sunk. I think,correct me if I am wrong, last week was a 2.9 or very close. Have to wait and see.

  • March 10, 2004, 9:55 a.m. CST

    You know if Wonderfalls sucks I hope Herc never sells another pa

    by Horseflesh

    The hype man, the hype!

  • March 10, 2004, 10:04 a.m. CST

    well if it was reported on a message board it must be true

    by DarthHomercles

    *holds breath* . . . . . . . . . *drops dead*

  • March 10, 2004, 10:11 a.m. CST

    season 6 renewal

    by SpeakerWiggin

    Not all message board rumors are automatic BS... there are those who actually know stuff and the people who posted it have been accurate. Doesn't mean it's NOT BS, but less chance of it. Also, remember they brought season 5 back for a half season, and if it did well...a full...and they got a full. The problem is, WB will wanna do it for less money and thankfully, Joss won't do it for less. He'd rather it end on top then have to reduce it's quality. So no telling what's going on in the talks. Personally, I think they'll bring it back but try to pair it with Dark Shadows. Dark Shadows will still fail and get cancelled after 9 eps like Birds of Prey. Being illogical AGAIN and coming to the conclusion that Angel can't be a lead in show, they'll pair it BACK with Smallville, who's ratings will have dropped due to not having a strong leadout show. Then they'll cancel Angel AGAIN just before Nielsen makes the Tivo data public. At which point they'll realize that their previous data was WAY wrong and that the actual number of Angel viewers is three times what they thought and then they'll shat their pants trying to bring it back for season 7..... but that's just my theory.

  • March 10, 2004, 10:11 a.m. CST

    Just wondering about campaign to save Angel

    by mrfan

    So, exactly how many postcards does it take to save a show? Do they check to see how many duplicates they have? Or do they just assume that everyone is an Angel fan? Postcards are nice and show extreme support but how the hell do they improve the ratings. Love this show but it does not look promising.

  • March 10, 2004, 10:43 a.m. CST

    not JUST post cards

    by SpeakerWiggin

    It was just an example. and the ratings HAVE gone up . . .all season actually. They've also raised over 17,000 dollars and have over 2 million unique signitures on the petition...and that was from two days ago, it's probably higher now.

  • March 10, 2004, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Please explain if you would.

    by mrfan

    Just curious... What have the ratings been? Any numbers available or is there a place to look? And what do you mean by "unique" signatures? Hey, I sent my postcards into places that were suggested but just was wondering what good do they do. If they only get, say, two million then does these represent just two million viewers out there that watch Angel? Trying to figure out the system. Also, what is the money used for that people send to places for the support?

  • March 10, 2004, 11:11 a.m. CST


    by Christopher3

    Lilah > Cordelia > Faith > Buffy (seasons 1-3) > Kate > Willow > Fred > Eve > Buffy (seasons 4-7) > Drusilla. Left out some people there.

  • March 10, 2004, 11:24 a.m. CST

    Sorry for the party pooping.

    by mrfan

    Guess I am tired of all the rumours and crap floating around. Just want confirmation. If this is really it then I want to enjoy the last six hours of my favorite show. If season six is coming then I want to enjoy the last six episodes this season and gossip about the upcoming season. Tired of hearing stuff. Wish someone would make it official either way.

  • March 10, 2004, 11:47 a.m. CST

    This is unconfirmed, but...

    by Ogi-Wan

    I've heard that Joss, while on a speed-ball & 'asprins in coka cola' binge has re-written all 3 shows into one mini-series to run on SciFi next fall. Apparently, it's set in the future and here's the gist. Buffy books passage aboard Serenity with Dawn frozen in a box. Xander has become Wash's co-pilot but they are often refered to as 'Pottsy and Ralph'. Inara and Willow are both companions and each rents one of Mal's shuttles. However, in the interest of ratings they take on a lot of clients together. And in the immortal words of Howard Stern "Lesbians = Ratings". As the story begins, Buffy and Dawn-in-a-box board Serenity in hopes of fighting the Reevers, when it's discovered that the Reevers are actually Wolfram & Heart Vampire squads. Angel and Spike have gone undercover on a Reever ship and spend the first few hours raping Andrew to death, eating his flesh and sewing his skin into their clothes to gain the Reevers trust. They get an emergency call from Giles, informing them that the reevers are going to invade a planet that might unleash the ultimate evil. It's the evil that came before the first and goes by the name of Stu. Meanwhile, Dawncicle gets thawed out and babbles about a plot to destroy the BlueSun Corporation by replacing all the green lightbulbs with blue lightbulbs that are similar but more likely to cause sever eye-strain. Dawn then tells Buffy that the only way to save the Universe is to haul a load of cattle to one of the planets where the Alien eggs are and to clone Ripley. Mal says some funny stuff and shoots people with his pistol. They learn that the reevers do well in space cause the direct sunlight problem isn't all that hard to deal with and many used to be geeky Star Trek TOS fans. Kaylee joins Willow and Inara for a hair braiding party that goes on far longer than anyone expected but attracts greater commercial spot pricing than the superbowl. In the climax, Zoe rides horses (cause she looks hot on horseback), calls Mal 'sir' a lot, and saves everyone from a bout of colera. I have to say

  • March 10, 2004, 12:05 p.m. CST

    I work in the WB Building

    by MiserableRainGod

    Yep, that's right. I work in the same building as the NY offices of the WB, though I don't work for WB (it's a real big building). It's the same building they used in Superman for the Daily Planet. Anyway, if only I could get inside their offices and kick the crap out of everyone there...

  • March 10, 2004, 3:38 p.m. CST

    by GollumsNutsack

    ask Boreanaz himself...

  • March 10, 2004, 5:29 p.m. CST

    "known for 110 years"?

    by Fuego Grande

    Buffy's dating Drusilla? (wouldn't that be a kick in the pants for the guys)

  • March 10, 2004, 5:38 p.m. CST

    DevilsBidness: ANGEL vs. BUFFY

    by DMented

    TOTALLY agree. Saw a newsbit on where Gellar says, and it struck me as more than a little arrogant and insulting, that "Angel never really got out from under Buffy's shadow." Uh, yeah it did. Look, I just started watching both shows in the past year, but from what I've seen on DVD -- about 80% of the episodes from both shows -- Angel blows the bloomers off Buffy, hands down. In fact, one of the great strengths of Angel over Buffy is that it doesn't have that smarmy little princess Gellar tryin to make puppy eyes at the camera all the time, doing her shitty acting thing. Everything in that goddamn show was about Buffy constantly suffering for being so goddamned special. Got sick of her whining by the second season. And whoever said she's hot: she's not a complete dog, but smoke another hit of crack and your pimply fatass brother will start to look hot too.

  • March 10, 2004, 6:34 p.m. CST

    You can't save Angel and stop hoping that you can. Here's why...

    by stuftseveredhead

    I have a friend that was pitching a show to the WB a few weeks ago and he asked about Angel being cancelled. Straight from the WB: "Yes, the ratings are really good. Yes, it has a strong fan base. We are fans of the show too but its a VERY VERY expensive show to do with the multiple locations, special effects, fight sequences etc. and the bottom line, the show is not doing near as well in syndication as expected. So even if it doing well on first run, the long term success of Angel in syndication doesn't look good therefore its not cost effective to continue to keep the show on the air" So there you go people, Angel was cancelled because of lousy ratings in syndication. It doesn't matter how die hard the fan following is, the WB doesn't believe they'll make enough money in syndication. Although, I'll be the first to admit that I thought only FOX studios would get syndication money. I guess I was wrong.

  • March 10, 2004, 7:28 p.m. CST


    by cooper2000

    What is your favorite show? Birds of Prey, Tarzan? Watch all the episodes and get back to us and if you dont like them then, well, then I can understand but give me a fuckin' break. Thats like trying to start watching B5 during the 3rd season and getting any impact. I could understand you not liking the shows but sucky? What have you been watching lately? //// Hope the rumors are true about Buffy and Dawn coming back. c'mon SMG!!

  • March 10, 2004, 8:20 p.m. CST

    accept Angel's death, kids. It'll make the end easier

    by Tall_Boy

    tis true.

  • March 10, 2004, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Here's a little something You All Should Read

    by Real Deal

    This is what I've been saying all along. It looks like if TV execs get their way won't have any of this genre's shows to watch anymore :,0,7778841.story?coll=mmx-movies_heds Kind of scary huh?

  • March 10, 2004, 9:44 p.m. CST

    I Feel So Bad About This I'll Try To Print The article

    by Real Deal

    From the Chicago Tribune 'Rings' can't work its magic on the small screen By Maureen Ryan Tribune staff reporter "The Lord of the Rings" collected an awe-inspiring 11 Oscars, and its best picture win was a first for a fantasy film. But fans of fantasy, horror and science-fiction entertainment can't count on the critical success of "Rings" -- and its box-office records -- to sweep their favorite genre from the multiplex to the TV schedule. The truth is stranger -- and stronger -- than fantasy: Market forces have a stranglehold on even the smaller networks and cable channels that used to nurture genre TV. "I do think it's harder for science fiction and genre shows to make it than it has been in the past. It's harder for them to find their place," says Dawn Ostroff, president of UPN. Witness: The vampire series "Angel," a highly regarded spinoff from the cult classic "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," was recently canceled by the WB. Fox's undead drama, "Tru Calling," is in true jeopardy. Even the future of the futuristic genre stalwart "Star Trek: Enterprise" is in danger. But the biggest indignity may have been suffered by "Jake 2.0," the sci-fi flavored saga of a computer nerd-turned-superhero. UPN recently aired a repeat episode of its reality show, "America's Next Top Model," in "Jake's" time slot. The would-be cover girls' rerun beat the mutant computer nerd's usual ratings. The upshot: "Jake" is "on hiatus" (in other words, don't look for it next year). Veteran television producers and executives point to a variety of causes for the downward trend in genre TV: - Reality TV is crowding out scripted programming of all kinds. "Reality programming is cheap to produce and has caught on with the public, and scripted drama is getting squeezed," says Paul Attanasio, the veteran "Homicide" writer/producer, whose "Century City," a legal drama set in the year 2030, premieres on CBS on March 16. "There's no doubt that the universe for scripted drama has contracted." - Reality generally costs less to produce, and it often snags a younger demographic. "It's absolutely cheaper," Sci Fi Channel president Bonnie Hammer says of the network's reality programming, which includes the hidden-camera show "Scare Tactics" and "Mad Mad House." "But it's not so much about the money," Hammer adds. "The traditional [sci-fi] dramas bring in older audiences, the 24-49 [year-old] demographic. The advertisers want the 18-34-year-old demo -- they're trying to sell to a younger audience." - Genre television, especially the spaceship-roaming-the-galaxy variety, is not only costlier than reality TV, it also can be more expensive than a cop show or a legal drama. When he was the executive producer of HBO's supernatural-tinged drama "Carnivale," Ron Moore says his staff could conserve cash by renting some sets and costumes. That wasn't the case for his updated remake of "Battlestar Galactica," which is in production for the Sci Fi Channel. For that show, Moore says, "everything has to be created." - Networks are under unprecedented pressure from their corporate owners to make serious profits. "The bean counters are more in control than they ever were before," says Ira Steven Behr, executive producer of "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine," UPN's "The Twilight Zone" and USA Network's upcoming alien-abductee mini-series, "The 4400." "It's not just what's on screen that's hurt [by small budgets], it's how many staff people you can hire, how many writers you can hire, which I think is a very bad trend." Behr says the relentless cost-cutting is the reason box-office success of such fantasy and sci-fi fare as "Lord of the Rings," "Star Wars" and "Harry Potter" doesn't -- and won't -- translate to the small screen. "They spent the money and went for it," Behr says of those films. "On TV right now, it's, `Pull back, pull back, cut corners.'" - A corollary to the profit pressure: Interference from network executives is at an all-time high, according to several veteran producers. "The problem, in a nutshell, is the more hands-on involvement of network and studio executives, focus groups and creative committees in the process," J. Michael Straczynksi, executive producer of "Babylon 5" and Showtime's post-apocalyptic "Jeremiah," said via e-mail. "There's nothing more wonderful than getting a really great exec who understands story, and they're certainly out there, but . . . in the minority," he continues. "When those who don't understand story start imposing things on a show, matters get dicey. . . . And they interfere at levels they didn't generally touch in the past." - The networks' desire to follow established, successful formulas collides with the nature of science-fiction, fantasy and horror TV, which, at its best, breaks the rules. "We're faced with two very large, looming presences on TV now, which are reality and the procedurals" such as "CSI" or "Law & Order," Behr says. "To do genre television, it takes a certain kind of focus in terms of imagination. The more chefs you have in the kitchen, the more difficult it becomes to get any kind of vision on the screen." "The genre audience isn't tuning in to see if the cops catch whoever murdered somebody this week," Moore says. "They're tuning in to lose themselves in a different world." - Many sci-fi, horror and fantasy shows have complex, ongoing story arcs, which fans love but which make network executives break out in hives. With cop shows and legal dramas, "the audience knows what it's going to get," Behr says. "Science-fiction and genre TV has the reputation of asking somewhat more from audiences." Genre TV, Behr adds, often "needs time to get the audience behind it and get comfortable with it. And time is just what they don't want to give shows these days." David Greenwalt, who co-created "Angel" with Joss Whedon, saw his supernatural drama "Miracles" canceled by ABC last year and "Jake 2.0" put on hiatus by UPN this year. He doesn't sound optimistic about the future of scripted television in general. "When you've got a show like `America's Top Model' that costs a 10th of what `Jake' does and scores better with a rerun, we're [expletive]," Greenwalt told the wire service Zap2It in January. "I think that there aren't too many genre shows that are as broad-based as some reality shows," says Ostroff, who wouldn't comment on the renewal chances of "Enterprise" or on the prospect of UPN reviving the WB's canceled vampire drama, "Angel." Still, it's not a total horror show for genre TV. ABC is taking a cautious chance on the form with the 13-part weekly drama "Stephen King's Kingdom Hospital," which premiered Wednesday. The horror-hospital tale is based on a 10-year-old Danish mini-series by director Lars von Trier -- but ABC probably would not have developed the project without the involvement of a marquee name such as King's, an author with a huge, devoted following. "It would have been much harder to do without Stephen King," says Quinn Taylor, the network's senior vice president of movies and mini-series. "It's just different," Taylor says of "Kingdom Hospital." "Anything to break through the clutter of sameness. Why take on `Law & Order' with another cop show?" There are a few other signs that genre TV isn't quite dead yet. The supernatural drama "Joan of Arcadia" has turned out to be a surprise hit for CBS; the quirky fantasy show "Wonderfalls" is getting a tryout on Fox starting March 12; and the WB has hired "X-Files" director Rob Bowman to helm a new version of the classic '60s vampire soap opera "Dark Shadows." The Sci Fi Channel, which raised the ire of genre fans in 2002 by canceling "Farscape" because of the show's "extreme and growing cost," remains committed to scripted programming. That's partly because, as various executives noted, the lower cost of reality shows is offset by the fact that those shows don't have much of an afterlife as repeats or in syndication. The Sci Fi Channel recently picked up the syndicated sci-fi show "Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda"; it has a mini-series adaption of Ursula K. Le Guin's "Earthsea" books in the works; and it ordered a "Battlestar Galactica" series after a two-night mini-series did well in December (it averaged a 3.5 rating, which is big by Sci Fi's standards). Another success for Sci Fi has been the consistently entertaining interstellar drama "Stargate SG-1," a pickup from Showtime that finishes its seventh season on March 19. Sci Fi is so pleased with the ratings for the show -- lately it has been averaging a 1.9 rating or more than 2 million viewers -- that the channel is developing a spinoff called "Stargate: Atlantis," which will debut alongside season eight of "SG-1" in July. "You have to be able to minimize your risk," Hammer says of the network's affinity for well-known franchises such as "Stargate" and "Battlestar." Going with proven genre performers "doesn't mean you'll have a surefire success, it means that it's a calculated risk, if you have a strong template." "What we develop has to be grounded in our reality," Hammer says. "There's a whole audience that loved `The Matrix' that might stay away out of ignorance [about what's on Sci Fi]. We want to capture that huge audience that went to see `Lord of the Rings' and `Harry Potter.'" And maybe, once the reality craze dies down, the next "X-Files" or "Angel" will get a chance. "For the past few years, networks have been so trigger happy," UPN's Ostroff says. "This past season I think they're sitting with shows a lot longer than in past years. What you look for is some growth. A show doesn't have to be a huge success right away -- you just need to see the arrow going in the right direction." Attanasio says part of his strategy for getting the futuristic law drama "Century City" on the air was to sell it as a legal show and to keep the sci-fi element subtle -- costumes and courtrooms on the show are only slightly different from what you'd see today. "Really, the trick with sci-fi is to figure out a way to make it about us," he says. "If it's a world you don't recognize, then you shouldn't watch it." Dick Askin, president of Tribune Entertainment, which syndicates genre fare such as "Andromeda" and "Mutant X," says he's not looking for the next "Star Trek" -- a new show about people roaming around in spaceships is, he says, "a long putt" in today's TV environment. But he'd think about developing the next "Smallville." "TV runs in cycles," Askin says. "We may just be in one of those dormant periods. [Genre TV] inevitably will come back." ----------

  • March 10, 2004, 9:51 p.m. CST

    The Buffyverse Hotness scale

    by zer0cool2k2

    Cordelia(in her prime there was no one hotter)> Lilah(Evil makes you hot. Bonus points for dressing up like Fred to seduce Wes)> Faith (Close call. Not quite as bad a girl as Lilah)> Buffy (circa seasons 2-3, when she had an ass. Ranks higher for being the lead)> Anya (Possibly the most underrated. Striped shorts and rollerskates...MMMM)> Darla(Founding member of the Buffyverse. Wore a school girl uniform in buffy's premiere...oh' and Evil)> Vampire Willow (Evil again..."bored now")> Magic Addict Willow> Crayon-Breaky Willow> Illyria (See?...Evil)> Winifred Burkle (Love Texas girls)> Jenny Calendar (Might have ranked higher if Angelus hadn't snapped her neck)> Gwen Raiden (Come back, Gwendy)> Harmony (Evil Dumb-Blonde, bonus for FHM layout, and having a porn star name)> Glory (Big Bad, once called Mary Jane Watson a "Cheer-Tator". Loses points for being a guy sometimes)> Dawn Summers (Jailbait is hot)> Kennedy> Giles' English girlfriend> Tara> Drusilla>Warren's Robot babe> Oz's werewolf ho> Riley's wife> Joyce> The First Slayer

  • March 10, 2004, 10:34 p.m. CST


    by Danger Mouse

    You've thought about that WAY too much!

  • March 10, 2004, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Y'know, Danger mouse...

    by zer0cool2k2

    I was thinking the exact same thing, just as I was posting it.

  • March 10, 2004, 11:45 p.m. CST


    by Voice O. Reason

    I'd fit Eve in between Vampire Willow and Crayon-Breaky Willow on your scale. Eve = evilly fucktastic.

  • March 11, 2004, 1:56 a.m. CST

    I kinda agree though

    by Danger Mouse

    Early faith in those leather pants... Darla and Dru go shopping...oddly sexy scene.

  • March 11, 2004, 3:18 a.m. CST

    Only good thing about this episode

    by Calm_b4_the_Strm

    It that it seems we're gonna ANGELUS for one last time being his bad-ass self in flashbacks again, otherwise this seems like a pretty crappy episode made to please the gay Buffy fans who want to know Buffy is going to choose .

  • March 11, 2004, 11:32 a.m. CST

    Could Willow return to Angel?

    by General Gogol

    Forgive me if I am putting 2 and 2 together and making 5 but I ask the question because if you go to the website you will see that although the play Alyson Hannigan is appearing in only runs for 16 weeks, she is taking a leave of absence 17th March - 3rd April. What would that be for that couldn

  • March 11, 2004, 1:59 p.m. CST


    by Englishguy


  • March 11, 2004, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Casting Sides Changed

    by SpeakerWiggin

    It's no longer Dawn who opens the door, but Andrew: Doesn't mean she's not in the Ep...just not in THAT part. to other questions. Yes, Willow will probably be back, her husband's been begging. Her time off is supposedly for her new Sitcom, but she could film for Angel also. And if they did cancel it for poor syndication ratings.......then they neglected to look at the DVD box sells which sold a fuck ton. OH and the Title of the ep is "The Girl in Question"

  • March 12, 2004, 3:10 a.m. CST

    Plot - Save Angel

    by Ido

    The last episodes (which I still can't view in Europe) seem to belong to the best ever. I'm confident that if Buffy Summers appears it will be with a good reason. Buffy is best. Angel sometimes even surpasses it, but both they are high above any other stuff, not only in TV. Angel would be less good, if there wasn't Sunnydale imo. sometimes if eel about Buffy as the "daylightT show, and Angel as the "night" show. They are woven together. So I would never criticize to [SPOILER] see Buffy in Rome. It's the Buffyverse after all, and it wouldn't diminish anything. I don't understand Dawn-bashing - the key, adopting a formerly non-existing child, was a great story arc, yet never resolved. One thing I didn't like was what happened to Cordy after season three. But after all, it seems very difficult to me to write 30 hours of excellent plots every year. Some work years on a two hours movie script (often with less resulst.) I most like to see how the fang gang will deal with the "corporate world" in the end - W&H for me is nothing else than that unlawful world of business, we are selling our souls to everyday. That and Nina and shanshu and so on will give enough stuff for another excellent concluding season. Don't get tired: join the current actions, let it know freinds, especially friends without internet connection:

  • March 12, 2004, 9:53 a.m. CST

    Kristin pimps Angel . . . and ONLY angel:

    by SpeakerWiggin Divine Intervention from Angel's Admirers... The results are in on this year's Save One Show campaign--where you, the fans, voted for the endangered series you most want to save from cancellation. I can think of only one word to describe them: holy-freakin'-poop. Over the past two weeks, more than 400,000 (!) E! Onliners from around the world--Latin America to Australia and Asia--sounded off in our poll. The winning show received an astounding 85 percent (!!) of the votes. That show is the WB's Angel. As promised, I am writing letters to the network suits (at both the WB and UPN, which has been pitched the show) to help make your voices heard. The original plan was to do this for the top three contenders, but because Angel took such a huge chunk of the pie, the other series--including Arrested Development, Boston Public, Enterprise, Ed, Miss Match, One Tree Hill and Tru Calling--each received only 1 to 3 percent of the votes. So, this year, SOS is all about Angel. To the Powers That Be at the WB and UPN: TV fans around the world have spoken through E! Online's Save One Show campaign, showing overwhelming support for the recently canceled Angel. On their behalf, I am here to beg, plead and share with you the top five reasons this undead champ deserves to live. 1. The Fan Efforts Are Unprecedented. Not only have Angel supporters signed petitions (more than 75,000 on one site alone) and donated their own money for full-page ads in the Hollywood Reporter and Variety, they're taking positive action by sending flowers to WB executives such as Jordan Levin (who, in turn, has passed them along to children's hospitals), organizing rallies in Los Angeles and Hamburg, Germany--and even holding a blood drive to keep Angel alive. You will not find more dedicated fans! 2. The Ratings Are Strong. Its average of 3.7 million viewers this season--those aforementioned die-hard fans--proves Angel packs more Nielsen's power than most WB and UPN shows. And thanks to syndication on TNT, many new viewers are discovering the series. 3. The Fans Deserve a Good Send-Off. The cancellation happened so late in the game that mastermind Joss Whedon simply doesn't have time to work up an adequate farewell--one with all the brilliant touches I'm sure he'd imagined for Angel's swan song. According to my sources, producers have contacted Sarah Michelle Gellar, Alyson Hannigan and Michelle Trachtenberg about returning, but due to the late notice, none have yet been able to commit. Sarah might be available, but Alyson is starring in a London play and Michelle has been cast in a Disney movie, so they aren't expected to be back. 4. The New Dynamic Is Working: It has been around for five seasons, but Angel really hit its stride this year with the addition of James Marsters and the big, fancy Wolfram & Hart set. The storylines have kept us on the edge of our seats--proving there is lots more life in the show. 5. It's One of the Best Dramas on Television: Sorry, but it has to be said. With shows like The Help, The Mullets and Run of the House getting screentime this season, the WB and UPN should feel lucky to have a show like Angel to avoid sinking further into a pit of mediocrity. Angel has more heart and soul than any of that cheesy "family programming" and boasts some of the best writing on television, which is why it's consistently championed by critics and fans alike. It's never too late to do the right thing. Save Angel, and you'll be a hero to millions of fans around the world (and one lowly tube maven who'll never be the same without it).

  • March 12, 2004, 5:55 p.m. CST


    by mrfan

    Isn't she the one who earlier this season said season six was official? Nice try Kristen. People at E! should keep their mouths shut. If the tabloids were television then E! would be their name. What a croak. Now, I wonder how many Angel fans voted three or four times.

  • March 12, 2004, 11:44 p.m. CST

    "Hit its stride in the fifth season" !!?? Fuck you very much

    by Frank_Serpico

    Angel hit its stride in the SECOND season with the Dark Angel and the Darla / Dru storyline and has been kicking Buffy's ass ever since.

  • March 15, 2004, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Two minds...

    by Indrid_Cold

    I had been thinking "Damn, Angel sucks this year," and then it started getting very cool, and I realized that I thought the same thing every year. Angel always takes about 10-12 episodes to get going, and in the past it's been well worth the wait. As it'll be this year. But Angel's not getting cancelled 'cause it's bad, it's all the other bullsh*t politics that is ruining genre tv for those of us that watch it. Just my 2 cents.