Ain't It Cool News (www.aintitcool.com)
Coaxial

Updated! Black Friday For The Buffiverse!!!!


I am – Hercules!!

Previously on Coax:

Angel's been cancelled!

Ah! But it looks like our Buffiverse pals could still be back in TV movies next season. From the WB Website:

IMPORTANT NEWS ABOUT ANGEL
A statement from The WB:
For the last seven years Angel and Buffy the Vampire Slayer have been cornerstones of our network. The sum total of the work done on those shows has produced some of the proudest moments in our history. Like some of the great series that are leaving the air this year, including Frasier and Friends, the cast, crew, writers and producers of Angel deserve to be able to wrap up the series in a way befitting a classic television series and that is why we went to Joss to let him know that this would be the last year of the series on The WB. We have discussed continuing the Angel legacy with special movie events next year, which is still on the table. In a perfect world, all of these details would be completed before this information went to the press so that we could be definitive about the show's ongoing future. But in any case, we did not want to contemplate this being the last year of Angel without giving the show the option of crafting their own destiny for this character and for this series. David Boreanaz continues to be one of the finest, classiest and friendliest actors we have had the pleasure to work with and we hope that the relationship furthers from here. The same can be said for all the actors and producers on the show.

*****

Well, as long as you’re all here, perhaps you’d like to learn a bit of the series’ final episodes. 5.18 is said to see the return of a major character. You can learn who now if you’ve mastered invisotext: Connor.

And over at buffistas.org, former star “Angel” and “Firefly” writer-director-producer Tim Minear (now hard at work on “Wonderfalls”) reveals he might be returning to “Angel” to “do” (writing and directing, I’m guessing) 5.20.

Okay, back to the originalish post:

Two messages just popped very suddenly into my emailbox:

Herc,

Don't know if you've gotten the news yet. It's just starting to spread on the Paramount lot. Angel has been cancelled. The cast and crew were just informed a little while ago.

doverpro

und:

I have it on very good authority - from a very very reliable source.... "Angel will not be returning next season."

Sadness.

thought you should know.

be well.

-call me Bats

Great horny toads!! Series co-creator David Greenwalt has told zap2it it's all true!! (Let’s hope Joss Whedon has enough time between "Firefly" production meetings to pitch a new spinoff for the fall!!)

It's particularly vexing, of course, because the current season of "Angel" is rapidly developing into its best ever.

Is it too late for Sarah Michelle Gellar to drop by for the finale??

And - hey hey hey - didn't that Kristen-type Wanda gossip girl over on E! Online already tell the world that "Angel" had been renewed for next season????

I am – Hercules!!





Looking for bumper stickers, plush toys and girls’ underwear covered with cartoon double-amputees? Visit The Herc Store!

Readers Talkback
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  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9 p.m. CST

    What??

    by ZeroC

    This season has been great! The ratings are up! Again, what??!?

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9 p.m. CST

    ...and judging by Les Moonves' comments, ENTERPRISE will be join

    by Rufus_T_Firefly

    Oh, by the way... FIRST!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:02 p.m. CST

    Ahh well, it had a good run...

    by vesp_e_rillian

    All good things and all that.... Too bad there will be zero, nada nothing, er.. another word meaning nothing- to watch on tv anymore...

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:04 p.m. CST

    NOOO!!

    by Ernie_is_evil

    Say it ain't so :( This might not have been it's best season but goddamn, it was still head and shoulders above most of the crap out there. No doubt it will be replaced with some dumbed down shit like Charmed.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:07 p.m. CST

    I hope Sarah Michelle Gellar has a change of heart and agrees to

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    :-(

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Great News!

    by vekt0r

    This makes me very happy. I've always hated anything to do with the Buffyverse! And yes, I've never watched the show!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:11 p.m. CST

    At least they can do some good final episodes

    by Ernie_is_evil

    Will be interesting to see what they come up with.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:13 p.m. CST

    Why is Angel filmed on the Paramount lot?

    by Voice O. Reason

    Its owned by 20th Century Fox.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:13 p.m. CST

    Write them!

    by Teep_P12

    Fax: 818-977-4033 Voicemail: 818-977-5000 - ask for voicemail feedback E-mail: faces @ thewb.com Feedback: http://www.thewb.com/Shows/WithFeedback/0,9310,74510,00.html Jordan Levin, President - Entertainment WB Entertainment 4000 Warner Blvd., Bldg. 34R Burbank, CA 91522

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:15 p.m. CST

    One more question...

    by Voice O. Reason

    ...Isn't there a chance UPN will pick it up? Or are they too good for Joss now that "America's Next Scrawny Skank" is a quasi-hit?

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:21 p.m. CST

    Hey Herc? How about a Bye Bye Angel Bash?

    by Rogue Slayer

    The Buffy one rocked!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:33 p.m. CST

    Cancelled before its time...

    by Logo Lou

    Angel, say hello to Quantum Leap, Farscape, Brimstone, Firefly, etc...

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:44 p.m. CST

    "Spike killed the show" Bull!!! Then who "killed" the show last

    by Nirvanapunk

    Five years is longer than MOST shows, let alone sci-fi genre types. Look at "Dark Angel", "Farscape", "Firefly" and all that...oh, wait...Spike wasn't there for you to blame the cancellation for.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:47 p.m. CST

    RE: Cancelled before its time...

    by Trik

    Don't forget "Now and Again" http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0212395/ ... Great show that deserved at least another season for a wrapup

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:54 p.m. CST

    re:(cancelled shows) And "Roswell" and "Now and Again" (I guess)

    by Nirvanapunk

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:57 p.m. CST

    ugh

    by deadend dropout

    http://thewb.com/PressRelease/Index/0,8341,156980,00.html

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:59 p.m. CST

    WB confirmed it

    by zozwolf

    http://www.thewb.com/PressRelease/Index/0,8341,156980,00.html

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:03 p.m. CST

    Screw the WB, why watch that damned network!

    by BANE

    First, they cancel Buffy in season 5. Now Angel (2nd ranked showed on the WB- someone mentioned, not sure if rumor is true). If you like Smallville or Gilmore Girls, they probably won't be around much longer either for more surreal life bullshit and more Charmed (suprised Tori Spelling isn't a witch yet) and 7th Hell episodes. I hate you WB!!!! You Screwed the Batman franchise to the crap Batman and Robin became and now you cancel one of the best shows on network TV currently. To Hell with the WB, let's put a stake in it and no longer watch that network after this season!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:04 p.m. CST

    The WB: "We have discussed continuing the Angel legacy with spec

    by Logo Lou

    TV movies? Those almost always suck,Look at Babylon 5's, ugh. (At least Farscape gets a mini-series). I know it is grasping at straws but... UPN?

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:09 p.m. CST

    Angel Finale Bash

    by Johnny Smith

    Can...can we get one in New York? Ever since I've moved here from LA, I've really come to realize how many great entertainment events there were for the public in my hometown. So howabout it, Herc? This news just blows. Will they have enough time to rap everything up? SHANSHU!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:11 p.m. CST

    I can't believe this bullsh*t...

    by Broody__McAngst

    Now I have nothing to watch on TV. NOTHING. Anything that's on Adult Swim I can buy on DVD, same goes for Chappelle's Show, Family Guy and South park, though the Chappelle's Show will be out sooner than South Park and Family Guy in terms of DVD release...Speaking of, why can't they just release Angel direct to DVD? Anime series find lots of fans that way. Of course that would make sense and Producers/Executives/Dumbasses at the WB or Fox would never think of that, Otherwise I'd be watching Firefly Season 2 right now.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:15 p.m. CST

    And another thing...

    by Johnny Smith

    ...fuck you, WB, now all you have left is Smallville. And besides that, all I have left on TV is South Park, Carnivale, and The Dead Zone. And who knows how good Stargate will be without RDA, and I have bad feelings about Atlantis.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:20 p.m. CST

    Finest Moments

    by Real Deal

    Well if this has been the cornerstone for the WB for so many years and produced some of it's finest moments why the hell are they canceling it???????????? What BS!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:20 p.m. CST

    ChogglePants...

    by Broody__McAngst

    Shut your goddamn word hole. If what you said was true they wouldn't keep that Mediocre crapfest that is Smallville on the air or make that proposed Dark Shadows remake or whatever the hell it's gonna be called.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:27 p.m. CST

    by SethShandor

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:28 p.m. CST

    I have to agree with Lou

    by SethShandor

    TV movies always suck. (Sorry about the blank post)

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:31 p.m. CST

    The WB, cancelled series, and "TV movies"

    by Mr. Persnickity

    Unfortunately, I doubt we'll ever actually see Angel "TV movies," at least on the WB. As I recall, they made similar comments when they cancelled "Popular" a couple years back. Nothing ever became of it...

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:34 p.m. CST

    Ah, I come over to this thread From the STE thread and I see I w

    by Real Deal

    Not to be taken for anything else other than a troll.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:36 p.m. CST

    What The WB Has For Next Year

    by Real Deal

    Oh yeah I'm waiting! Besides BSG03 I haven't heard one encouraging bit of news from any network about next year.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:39 p.m. CST

    This blows hard...

    by eternal76

    Fucking morons... now what's the WB got? Smallville? Hell in a mother fucking hand basket

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Spike was a load of shite, and killed the show.

    by fevriul

    ome on people once, cordy left the writing was on the wall. Fred has no tits, no arse, and a two inch gap all the way up her leges becuase she's so fucking thin. They get rid of Lilah a superb character, keep Gunn token black guy. Ther only decent charcter left was wesley. Ah well time to go.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:42 p.m. CST

    RDA/Stargate

    by Don Lockwood

    Whoa, whoa, whoa. Richard Dean Anderson is leaving Stargate SG-1? Sez who? Since when? I figured they were just getting rid of the old show for the new sucky Atlantis show, not continuing SG-1. And yeah, it sucks about Angel. They've got to have at least up to episode 18 in the can, right? How are you gonna suddenly wrap up the series with four episodes to go? All of which have probably already been at least outlined...

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:43 p.m. CST

    Oh well...

    by JoyceSummers

    The show was obviously gasping for air in the last three seasons (3 through 5). Hopefully they can convince SMG to pick up Buffy's mantle one last time...she's the only actress Boreanaz ever had chemistry with.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:43 p.m. CST

    Choggel Mistake

    by Real Deal

    Well I'll tell you who cares! Just read this thread!If as you say TV is a business and only viable shows will stay then the reality show will win out. But that's a fad and will blow over after awhile. Then we will find TV executives groping around in the dark like they did in the 80's wondering why they can't come up with a hit. Art shouldn't always and can't always be measured with money. By the way good shows that people watch are canceled all the time so please don't give me thAT CRAP! ARE YOU GETTING IT NOW? pEOPLE REALLY CARE ABOUIT THESE SHOWS! So tell me Choggle what is it that you like? Current shows please!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:45 p.m. CST

    If you don't like Angel...

    by Broody__McAngst

    ...Then what the fuck are you doing here?! If you're only going to come into a thread about a show you don't like to bash it, you're a goddamn troll. Just have some respect for the people who are fans and LURK.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:48 p.m. CST

    WHAT THE?!?!?

    by TodayzSpecial

    How could they? What do networks have against Joss Whedon?!?! Buffy, Firefly, and now Angel?!? All cancelled before their time? Firefly WAY before its time! The WB is idiotic for keeping a fluff show like CHARMED over ANGEL! How many TV series have as compelling storylines, interesting characters, and will always surprise .... ANGEL was the only thing I actually looked forward to on Television every week. Honestly, I'd love to hear a reason. Smallville has admittedly been a little better this season, but it develops its characters at a snail's pace. It pales in comparison to how Whedon and Co. have developed all the characters on ANGEL! This news is just TERRIBLE. Absolutely TERRIBLE!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:53 p.m. CST

    RE: RDA/Stargate (spoiler)

    by Trik

    I don't think RDA is leaving Stargate SG1. ... From what I understand is that Doc. Frasier will die next ep. ... For the first time that I can recall she is being sent off world into a hostile situation. ... Yeah, RDA's char will be shot by a staff weapon like they show in the promo, but they also introduced that new armor in tonights ep. ... He'll be wearing that when shot.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:56 p.m. CST

    Choggle Pants

    by Real Deal

    If you believe TV is a business then I guess you've found a home. I don't imagine the Simpsons will make it much past this year. King of the Hill bores me to tears. The rest are just ordinary. Also it's not just my enthusiasm. Read the rest of the thread. Or are you blind ( or maybe just a slope headed TV executive ).

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:56 p.m. CST

    Re: The WB, cancelled series, and "TV movies"

    by Ernie_is_evil

    Yeah, I doubt we'll see any such movies either. They throw that shit out there just to appease the fans somewhat.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:58 p.m. CST

    And another thing

    by Broody__McAngst

    Spike didn't kill the show. The lack of hotliness that was Cordelia didn't kill the show. It was clearly the story structure of the ATS since season 2. The Arc format the show had for the prevous 3 seasons made it hard for newbies to jump in and limited the possibility for new fans. It's why I was only able to get my friends into Buffy during Season 1 and the occasional Season 3/4 eppy, but never during 5,6, or 7. And though the show has improved vastly in recent days, it's still a little hard to watch without going "Who/What are they talking about?" if you just started this season. I'd love to fill newbies in, but it's too much to go over and by the time I was done it would be time for next week's eppy and unlike me, they don't have money to wast on Season 1-3 DVDs and I refeuse to loan mine out. I mean, what else am I going to watch?

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:06 p.m. CST

    petition

    by rtzornes

    If it hasn't been posted http://www.petitiononline.com/ai5d0162/petition.html

  • Sci Fi could have done something like this for Farscape.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:18 p.m. CST

    C'mon Herc ban Choggle Pants...

    by Logo Lou

    You banned me for less offenses than being a troll.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:19 p.m. CST

    This sucks big hairy ones.....

    by Daryl van Horn

    There goes one of the last shows worth watching on the crapfest we call tv programming these days. And yay, I see NewYorkKid still has nothing to add to any discussion but the same old "I hate Spike, waahhhhhhh!!" Dear god, the utter waste of people that only spend time bashing what they don't like instead of focusing on what they do like. And yeah, for the last time, Spike coming over was one of the main reasons we even HAD a 5th season. And if anything, the ratings were UP compared to last year. Just not enough. And Choggle pants, you're despicable. Don't hide behind that "only telling the truth" crap. If you hated the buffyverse then stay the hell out of here. You're just here to gloat and insult people and tick them off. There's plenty movies and shows I don't like, and I have the good sense and decency not to go to threads dedicated to them just to be a prick to people. So piss off. Thanks. To the other people on here, well....who knows. Plenty of interesting stuff has happened in TV history. Maybe a new spinoff after a while....maybe those TV movies that the WB was on about....Ripper....Maybe Tru Calling will tank and they'll give 'Faith' a shot, hehe. As it is, I thought this season was going great. This is indeed Black Friday isn't it. And yeah Herc, any chance of an Angel Bash in Los Angeles? The Buffy one was great.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:21 p.m. CST

    logo lou

    by Hercules

    if you had a handle as amusing as "choggle pants," perhaps you wouldn't have been banned.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:23 p.m. CST

    A bash is called for

    by ThingsThatTimDog

    Austin would be nice. Of course if you could the cast to drop by one in LA would be nice for those folks as well.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:24 p.m. CST

    Herc, and here I thought you weren't easily amused

    by Logo Lou

    Guess I was wrong. (should have guessed with all the reality show cock-sucking)

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:25 p.m. CST

    I have no more reason to watch TV anymore

    by JackDonkey

    Monday = nothing Tuesday = Gilmore girls wednesday = nothing after angel thursday = survivor friday = nothing I guess the gilmore girls is the only good show left on television then, cause 24 blows ass. Tru Calling is the same format every week, solves the crime oh no wait she doesn't, oh now she solved it good. Oh yeah I forgot Alias is pretty good still too. This here would be the ulitmate tv lineup Monday = Firefly, Farscape ; Tuesday = Gilmore Girls, Brisco County Jr. ; Wednesday = Buffy, Angel ; Thursday = Survivor, Alias ; Friday = Tick, Family Guy, Futurama, Beavis and Butthead ; Saturday = Hercules, Xena (when it was not obviously lesbian), and then Jack of all trades for desert ; Sunday = Minnesota Wild hockey kickin ass all over their beeatch opposition. I'm glad I don't pay for cable cause there aint gonna be shit on anymore.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:33 p.m. CST

    Too bad.

    by Psyclops

    I was never really into this show and haven't been following it since the fourth season ended. Still, I'm sorry to see it go. There were some great episodes in this series and with the addition James Marsters I'm sure it could have had a great future. Hopefully, we'll see all of these characters (including the Scoobs) return one of these days. C'mon, Joss... let's get a theatrical feature off the ground in the near future!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:39 p.m. CST

    The End of Trek and Angel and great TV

    by Electric_Monk

    What we are seeing is the passing of great drama. Network TV has decided that only one group of people are important: Straight, white males between the ages of 14 to 25. Angel (and to a certain extent, Enterprise) does not appeal to these guys. Survivor, The Real World, Road Rules, America's Top Model, Fear Factor and the many more insipid reality shows do. They are also short term results for the broadcast networks to make a profit. All the above shows are cheap to produce and make it's creators and networks very rich. To part with the money, on say a show like Angel where it's main audience is in their upper 20's and 30's, seems stupid. Angel will make money in reruns and syndication. But that can take years. The Surreal Life makes instant profit. I mean the math is obvious, but who will remember Charmed or One Tree Hill, let alone every singel reality show in say 10 years? But, because these shows -empty of any content -are "hits" (a misnomer if you ask me) they are renewed year-after-year. Someone once said that network TV runs on three things. Fear is one. It runs through every thing they do. The one thing that makes that fear go away is greed. If they can make a shit load of money off programs like Fear Factor and American Top Model's, the fear goes away. What trumps greed is stupidity and stupidity usually wins the day. So the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. The departure of Angel (and probably Enterprise) is a call to arms. For what replaces them next season is scary. The WB is reviving Lost in Space and Dark Shadows. Both shows will most likely be designed to appeal to much younger viewers, who in the end, will not care the shows are on. I'm confused as to why the WB would cancel Angel and order pilots for two shows made nearly 40 years ago. Are they appealing to the 16 year-old boy or 35 - 40 year-olds who watched it then? Anyway, network TV -and in general, most of Hollywood -has shot itself in the foot. Reality TV will run it's course, and as Real Deal said, we'll be stuck with crap. And, BTW, here's info for cutestofborg: Star Trek: Enterprise is doomed: "Star Trek: Enterprise might not be soaring through space next season," began an article on UPN's future plans, quoting CBS and UPN chairman Leslie Moonves on the possibility that Enterprise might not return for a fourth season. In a Scripps Howard News Service reprinted in the Tri-City Herald, Moonves said, You see the new stuff, you see the old stuff, and you compare and say, 'What is the better schedule?' So it's not like, 'Gee, if Enterprise is up 10 percent between now and May, it will get picked up.' It's rather - you know, it's not a science, but it's, 'All right. How do we build Wednesday better?' 'Does it include Enterprise?' Very possibly. 'Does it not?' Possibly as well. Stating that the fate of the series will remain uncertain for several months - at least until April, when the network will review its 2004-5 schedule, Moonves added that instead of being cancelled, Enterprise might move to Friday nights - a move long predicted by Mediaweek Programming Insider Marc Berman. UPN entertainment president Dawn Ostroff, who along with Moonves announced the development of an as-yet-untitled reality show about five sheltered Amish teens living in the outside world, promised that Enterprise would have many twists and turns for the rest of the season. As has been widely reported, Enterprise has suffered declining ratings over the course of the past two seasons. Despite critical praise of the action-oriented story arc established this season, ratings remain down from last year.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:41 p.m. CST

    It was because of the puppet episode...wasn't it??

    by kalel62

    I knew that damn puppet episode would mark the end.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:43 p.m. CST

    I'm surprised

    by Demosthenes2

    I thought that the ratings had improved. I also have noticed that The WB hasn't had a new hit in quite a while. This is depressing. Ummrm, please, UPN, a little help??? Pick up please???? And I hope Tru Calling is canceled soon, so the Faith spinoff can come to fruition... All this is probably wishful thinking... It's over...

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:49 p.m. CST

    choggle pants.

    by Psyclops

    Buffy is a franchise and everyone knows that a franchise is never truly dead. If the ratings plummet and the fan base fades away it'll disappear from sight until someone comes along to give it another jolt of life in one form or another. We may not see a theatrical feature at all but there is always the possibility that a studio will take a chance on it's existing properties and resurrect these characters. Besides, Joss really wants to bring Buffy to the big screen and if he ever got the chance I'm almost certain he would include most if not all of the ANGEL cast.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:55 p.m. CST

    Add Jon Doe...

    by SethShandor

    to the cancelled too soon list as well.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:57 p.m. CST

    DARK SHADOW

    by chungkingexpress

    They did this just so no other vampire show will compete...Ok so simple they will never ever re-new show but only way you will ever see any tv movie ugh is if DS is a ratings failure which i hope it damn well is. Btw im in the uk and dont have sky so my only means of watching this show has been online and my Dvd collection everyone in US should boycott the new show.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, midnight CST

    Well, damn.

    by OgamiTito

    There goes my favorite show on TV. Oh, and I hate Spike, too, have for 2 seasons of Buffy. But they handled his introduction well on Angel and haven't pushed him over our hero. I really hope that Whedon calls in a favor on Gellar, so that we can get some closure.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:04 a.m. CST

    To Silverage--err, I mean homopho--err, I mean NewYorkKid but yo

    by Nirvanapunk

    aside from your Mark David Chapmanesque obsession with Spike along with "I haaaaaate him! Boohoo!". The show was almost canceled last year, too. I can't WAIT to see how you come up with that being his fault. The truth is, he did bring the fans over- -the second episode had a 2 season ratings high. However, many people were pissed about his status (a ghost. Whendon even commented on that in an interview) and left. It was up to the WB to renew it. They didn't, simple as that.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:05 a.m. CST

    Damn youuuu Mr. LEVIN /petition information.IMPORTANT

    by MercuryBeat

    I'm pretty disgusted at just hearing this news.The show is doing great on TV and has pretty good sales on dvd.I cannot understand why they want to end the series when they are doing a fine job of storytelling.Now i suggest the same thing that David Boreanaz told the fans on a interview on February 4 of 2004(http://totallydavidboreanazuk.com/news.htm )....."In his chat on MSN, David stated that he wants to do another season of Angel as he's having the best time, likes where the show and characters are at and would also have further directing opportunities if there were a season 6... He requests fans continue to show their support for Angel by contacting Levin of the WB network... Here is the address to write if you wish to send in your support of the show: Mr. Jordan Levin The WB Television Network 4000 Warner Blvd. Building 34R Burbank, CA 91522 .....David Boreanaz: I think Season 6 in my regards is preeminent. I suggest all the fans write in and ask for a Season 6. I would love to have another season. If the show hadn't changed I wouldn't want that, but now where these characters are I embrace that. SoggyRbabe4: David, what can we do as fans to help Angel get picked up for a sixth season? David Boreanaz: Support! Everything you've done so far has been great for us. Tunning in to watch the show, call up Jordan Levin or write letters in support of the show. What you are doing now is fantastic and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts. come on guys...at least i want another season for a proper good ending with Buffy and the whole gang.I mean it's not fair,that they want to do another season and now sudenly they can't because Mr.Levin says that since all the major programs of tv are now leaving that Angel should go.PLLEEEAAAASE.HELP WE WANT IT BACK MR.LEVIN

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:18 a.m. CST

    That's illegal choggle

    by SethShandor

    look it up.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:23 a.m. CST

    WTF?

    by fighterzero

    From the WB website Part One: ANGEL outperformed "The West Wing," "King of Queens" and "Becker" in the time period to rank #3 among persons 12-34 (2.0/5) and men 12-34 (2.1/6). The series defeated both CBS and NBC in women 12-34 (1.9/5) and female teens (1.8/5). ANGEL also posted year-to-year gains in all 12-34 and teen demos as well as among adults 18-34 (up +6%) and men 18-34 (up +27%). From the WB website Part Two: ANGEL is currently The WB's second highest-rated series with adults 18-34. Both links are available on the sidebar of the cancellation announcement. So, this deserves a serious WTF. Whether you love the show or hate it, even the "it's just business, they're not here to serve you" argument doesn't hold water. So.. what? Mr. Levin wants it gone because "many great shows are leaving the air this season", so Angel should too? There has to be something else going on here. Cancelling the series at this point doesn't make sense for the fans or the company.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:30 a.m. CST

    Dear Mr. Choggle Pants

    by fighterzero

    That's a possibility, I guess. I'm sure we'll be hearing more sides of the story as it unfolds. Probably have to wait until the special features for Season 5 come out on DVD. For shame.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:30 a.m. CST

    Angel canceled, but Charmed renew? WTF??????

    by MercuryBeat

    The Wb is screwing things up WAAAY too much...I can't believe that my favorite show on TV is getting canceled...but what disgusts me about the wb is their way of making decisions.the one that bugs me so much is that they renewed charmed for another season.and guys addmit it...that show has died of storytelling material.they don't know how to do storytelling like Angel does.Charmed only does child stories like "Sleepy Hallow stuff" and "Charmed and the seven dwarfs"If the WB Keeps this up,they are going way down in ratings and popularity.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:31 a.m. CST

    Damn, Damn, Damn!!!

    by zer0cool2k2

    Well, I thought I was gonna' make it through Friday the 13th without anything bad happening, and then I hit AICN one more time and BAM!!! What crappy news. This just really sucks. I hold very little hope for TV movies or any of that other bullshit, but I doubt they'll resolve the Shanshu storyline, just in case they get a chance to but Gellar and Boreanaz up on the big screen. Wonder what Joss is gonna' do to keep Marsters working now. I don't see anyone buying a Spike series, and I guess Tru Calling is doing just well enough to keep Faith out of the picture. I'm really friggin' tired of WB's stupid theme-episodes of Charmed, and all the stupid subtitles everything has to have now (Smallville:Velocity, Smallville:Redundancy, etc.), not that I don't like Smallville, and I've got no problem flipping channels to see Alyssa Milano run around in Genie costumes and mermaid tails for a few seconds, but c'mon, Angel is one of the highest quality shows on TV right now. I get it, that quality doesn't mean the retarded masses will tune in, but I thought Angel was holding it's own this year, and every magazine seems to have an article about how great it is. Where the Hell are those "Viewer's for Quality Television" people when you need 'em? .................. P.S., I've seen a lot of TV shows that a lot of people around here were passionate about get cancelled over the past couple of years, some of them I didn't care for, but I never danced on their graves. So those of you who are here just to say "Yay, Angel Sucked", well, FUCK YOU!!! .................. And btw, Now and Again was an excellent show, it was just too smart for the average viewer (most of whom were probably asking "where's Sela Ward"?).

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:38 a.m. CST

    Death to the WB!!

    by JackBristow

    Do they keep quality shows like Angel and Buffy? No, they deep six them the first chance they get. Alas, remember this is still part of the same company that employs Jon Peters and is considering Beyonce Knowles for Lois Lane. A PLAGUE ON YOUR HOUSE!

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:39 a.m. CST

    DIED SOOO YOUNG

    by godigy

    If memory served right wasnt it on the front cover of Tv Guide just a couple weeks ago.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:42 a.m. CST

    Oh, I have no problem believing Network execs would cancel a qua

    by zer0cool2k2

    What I find hard to believe is that anyone had the balls to take a chance on BTVS in the first place. And the more I grew to love the show, the more I just knew it would be cancelled any day. Before I knew it, there was Alias, Smallville, Angel, etc, and it started to feel like the networks really were trying to please me. But now, the fun is over. Cheap reality programming, tired-ass sitcoms, and cop/lawyer/doctor cookie-cutter series are fully in charge. I hope you assholes are all happy.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:43 a.m. CST

    An Idea

    by JackBristow

    Let's compile a list of all The WB execs and leave burning paper bags filled with feces in them.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:44 a.m. CST

    Two Words

    by JackBristow

    FLAMING ARROWS

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:49 a.m. CST

    HELL YEAH!!!

    by asher1978

    Thank God the WB woke up and cancelled this show. It had become extremely pathetic these last two seasons. So I won't miss it at all. Just like buffy's last two seasons sucked so did angel's. Maybe now Joss will wise up and realize that Spike is not good for the show except when he is the Big Bad or just plain evil. May the heaven's sing for today has ended the existance of a show that had once been great.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:56 a.m. CST

    That WB, what a class act!

    by zer0cool2k2

    Nice how the same page that announces the premature death of Angel, also has a link to the "Angel's turning 100!", press release, where of course they mention how the show is their second-highest rated, and has an emmy winning staff. But hey, at least they got Sheryl Crow to appear on a Tv series.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:59 a.m. CST

    We can't let this happen.

    by Blok Narpin

    I am inviting anyone interested in saving the show to join my yahoo group to discuss methods of fighting this. Please, let's not let the show die!!! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/roguedemonhunters/

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:04 a.m. CST

    There is bitter bile in my throat

    by Darth_Bald

    I knew this day would come. Angel was too different a show to last. It is a miracle it's lasted five seasons. I agree this has been one of the best seasons. Maybe it's a good thing to end it on a high note. But I will sorely miss it. BTW: Has anyone noticed Fred is looking kind of hot this season? Also, am I the only person who liked Firefly? I'm watching the DVDs currently and loving it all over again.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:07 a.m. CST

    One more thing...

    by Darth_Bald

    I REALLY hope Angel ends better than Buffy did. BTVS' build up was good, but the very end was a disappointment.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:07 a.m. CST

    It's quite simple, really . . . (further knowledge and speculati

    by Fletch F Fletch

    Let's get some things straight; Warners doesn't really give a first thought, let alone a second, to what fans want or want to see. Good things only happen to Warners until the Execs hear about how good it really is. Now we all know that next season's big push is going to be DARK SHADOWS. It's going to be high-concept, supernatural, and a period piece (read COSTLY). But, the WB will be fully committed to the show for at least the first 13 episodes, to show confidence and build a reliability witht he new fans that this show is here to stay (if the show is any good). Now let's think about scheduling; Monday-Tuesday are the WB's "young adult melodrama" nights, Wednesday is "high-concept" night with Kryptonians and vampires and such, Thursday is "reality TV" night, and Friday is "sit-com" night. To keep ANGEL, a new DARK SHADOWS show could only possibly be put on Thursdays, killing either their two 7:00-8:00 shows, or THE SURREAL LIFE. Niether of those options are likely, because on Wednesdays you still have more vampires. Without spreading into the 10:00e/9:00c time slot that syndicated shows and some news programs take up(which the WB will never do until the get a MUCH larger market share), the only thing the WB can do is get rid of a show already on. But which show? Moral lightning-rod 7th HEAVEN? Critical darlings ONE TREE HILL, EVERWOOD, and GILMORE GIRLS? Ratings-leader SMALLVILLE? The rather tepid Thursday spots are the only options, and apparently the WB doesn't to lose the unstoppable media juggernaut force that is STEVE HARVEY"S BIG TIME, or want to be known as the new UPN or Sci-Fi Channel, reknowed for fantastical and high-concept programs, fearing that would drive away their "mainstream" viewers that show up on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Fridays. ---------------------- In my opinion, the WB owes a lot more to their fans other than just to keep ANGEL afloat, and as just an employee of an unnamed network myself (who has never watched ANGEL, but acknowledges its fanbase) this is just typical with their corporate mindset, as evidenced by their treatment with their other franchises like Superman, Batman, the Lone Ranger, etc. . . Until regime change occurs, Warners will operate as a business first, a studio second, and an outlet for artistry mindful of fan expectation and appreciatation a far distant ninth. I just hope SMALLVILLE's ratings stay in the clear, or I swear to God we will see all kinds of "shot-in-the-arm" marketing stunts on the show, a la young Bizarro kidnapping Clark with the help of blue, white, and gold Kryptonite while Chloe and Lex have to team up with the Wonder Twins and Krypto the Superdog to talk young Darkseid into helping out. Mark my words, it could happen.

  • I could spend this entire post listing the countless shows that were cancelled before their time, but we all know TV exec's are idiots. We've always known this. I just feel sad for the WB. Who still watches this network?

  • I figure look for the positive. Even though I really should send them snail mail (physical letters have more impact than electronic mail) I did immediately send The WB an email (faces@thewb.com) about this. I thanked them for not only giving me one less show to watch but, since Angel was thew only show I ever TUNED to the WB for, one less network to watch. Very considerate of them really. The positive is I positively am done with the WB. Hooray! Angel, I'll miss ya.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:17 a.m. CST

    WB bastards!!

    by Whedon

    What the hell is going through these executives heads, renew charmed but cancell ATS!?! This has been a great season so far and in my opinion the best season of Angel ever produced. Hopefully they'll come to their senses and realize they have nothing coming on the fall schedule that can match the "steady" ratings ATS has always gotton. And to NYK I get that you don't like Spike and to each his own on that one but if you truly believe that "Spike killed the series" as you stated then your fucking retarded.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:30 a.m. CST

    Mistakes made this season

    by Frank_Serpico

    1. Taking Cordelia away : JW is a stupid fuck for firing the hottest woman on TV 2. Keeping GUnn : His character has always been boring . 3. Spike : Not for the reasons you think . His character would have added something if they hadnt tried to make mr.rapist into a hero . I would rather have had the old chipped spike on Angel. 4. Wesley , Lorne : How much screen time did these two get . Anyways fuck SMG for not coming over . Lets have a last re-match b/w Angel and Spike where he kicks Spike's ass , reunites with Connor , becomes human and re-discovers the joys of chocolate.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:35 a.m. CST

    Sob ..

    by Calm_b4_the_Strm

    Goom bye Angel . It was a better show on its worst ep. than Buffy was at its finest. This season was good but Spike severly disbalanced this show , the move to W & H was stupid and Cordelia's absence was sorely missed . JW tried to make this into Buffy season 8 instead of Angel Season 5 and screwed long time angel fans. I agree .. the last ep. should have Angel shanshuing and have a last re-match with mr. rapist or Angelus !!!

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:39 a.m. CST

    Not the End

    by SpikeTBB

    This is just a change of form, not the end. Too many stories are left to be told. More importantly to those in control, too much money is still to be made. The Buffyverse will be reinstated and a new outlet set up. As movies or new shows, in one form or another it will continue. This is just a change, not the end. As disappointed and blindingly stupid as it is to cancel your second highest rated show, don

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:41 a.m. CST

    Well Since the same thing happened to Buffy in year 5...

    by Whedon

    Joss should just yank it over to UPN. I mean you think they would be begging him for the opportunity. I hope they don't try to wrap everything up in these final episodes cause don't they already have 17 of them in the can? Not enough time in my opinion to wrap up the whole Buffyverse. I say lay the groundwork for the next spinoff or preferably move it to UPN or even more preferable convince those WB jackoffs that just because their new Dark Shadows has vampires in it doesn't mean the ATS' audience is going to follow over to it.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:57 a.m. CST

    WHYYYYYY?

    by deadend dropout

    I can hear silveragent laughing somewhere far away, who's willing to bet we'll see him again on a regular basis now that the shit has hit the fan?

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 2:05 a.m. CST

    Goddammit!

    by Deus_Ex_Lover

    FUCK THE WB. FUCK THEM UP THEIR GODDAMN CORPORATE ASSES. FUCK THEIR 7th HEAVEN AND CHARMED MEGA BULLSHIT! AHHHHH! I am SO pissed!

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 2:35 a.m. CST

    Can the WB not do ANYTHING right!?!?

    by jtp972

    Good Lord...the show is nails this year, and ratings are up. I heard somewhere its the second highest show on the WB?! Why would they cancel it now!? Makes no sense. It's been a great run for the Buffyverse...but "Angel" isn't anywhere nearly as out of steam as "Buffy" was in the last year. In fact, its stronger, creatively and in the ratings, than its ever been! Bad bay to be a Buffyverse fan...

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 2:50 a.m. CST

    Hey Choogle head

    by Real Deal

    So by listening to you I would guess that you don't even like Science Fiction or Fantasy or anything in this genre. If that's true what the hell are you doing here? Other than being a troll?

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 2:54 a.m. CST

    Choogle Head

    by Real Deal

    By the way I'm 50, am out of school, and have been working full time for quite sometime now bucko. so I probably understand a lot more than you do! Grow up and understand the harsh realities of the business world? What a crock. What I do understand is some people are willing to settle for a smaller way of thinking.

  • Seems like I remember hearing that when "Buffy" went to UPN, there was a clause that said UPN got first dibs at "Angel" if WB ever decided not to renew it. Am I remembering right? Anyone who knows for sure, feel free to either confirm or set me straight. Of course, I hope we'll all sign petitions to save the show (I've already signed one), but I hate the idea of groveling to the WB. They don't seem to respect fans. I think the more appropriate tenor is one of "you guys have to stop screwing over your fans." As far as the business end of it. All of us need to step back and realize we're not TV executives, so none of us have any right to speak too confidently about the 'business' matters. Having said that, if this business about banking on "Dark Shadows" to be a hit and draw in "Angel" fans is at the heart of this, then that seems a risky move. "Angel" may not set the world on fire with ratings. But its steady and has a fan base that will stick with it, even if it started sucking (which it has never done). So..."Angel" is guaranteed viewers. "Dark Shadows" is a crap shoot. I think both shows could have co-existed, and would have loved a 2 hour vampire show block. But to cancel a proven solid show (with probably the most loyal fan base around) doesn't seem to make any kind of 'business' sense because its just basically giving away sure money.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 2:56 a.m. CST

    SPIKE SPIN-OFF

    by heymanniceshot

    Again I see this year as maybe the baby step for an eventual SPIKE series (I can hear the opening credits now...Marsters or a children's choir (ala Harry Potter) singing a spartan

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 3:24 a.m. CST

    the best ever?

    by cooper2000

    What is he crazy. There have been like three good episodes. Sorry to hear the news but its better than getting two last seasons like Buffy.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 3:26 a.m. CST

    Hey Choggel Head ( again )

    by Real Deal

    No I think it's you who have missed the point. It's not just STE or Angel it's a trend toward cheaply produced reality shows. Out of your list the only one I can stand was The Simpsons and since that has been on for 15 years I don't think it'll be long before it's gone. The point is TV executives want shows that don't break any new ground, are cheap to produce, don't ask any cutting edge questions, and laugh at anything that might ruffle someones feathers. In other words bland crap. What they would call safe. Well it didn't work before won't work now. Alot of things came about because of shows like Star Trek that don't even have anything to do with TV. Gene Roddenberry understood how stupid TV execs can be. He struggled with them constantly even back in the 60's. You see chogglehead people don't like crap even if that's all there is. If these shows go under it will be the begining of the death knell for imagination on TV ( you know something besides a cop show or a sitcom ). I"ve obviously lived longer than you and remember when TV was a real wasteland ( much worse than we've had it for the last 17 years ). You say it'sa a matter of economics? Well in the quality of TV shows you get what you pay for also. I imagine that there will be less traffic here at AICN without these shows.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 4:03 a.m. CST

    New Shows

    by Real Deal

    The thing about a Dark Shadows or Lost In Space revival is that the reason these shows were popular in the first place is that they were quirky. The thing is they were there at the right place and time. Tell me how they're going to recreate that? It's been tried before and failed miserably. Good shows are going away and aren't being replaced with good ones. It's a simple equation. Strangely enough I have big hopes for BSG03. Not because it's trying to recreate what's been done before but because it wasn't afraid to try something new. It's not anything like the old BSG. It's different. Not trying to recapture something that can't be recaptured. There's always hope I suppose.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 4:07 a.m. CST

    Just Some Thoughts, and sympathies

    by MightyyMouse

    Some thoughts. Mr. Chogglehead is right about something. It is capitalism. Unfortunately, in his pseudo-libertarian, reactionary world, this obviously makes it all ok. It is irrational for me, or anyone else, to try to have a debate with him, as his comments reveal him to worship at the altar of money and business, swathing himself in a cloak of unpretentious prentention with phrases like "once you live in the real world...". It is impossible to argue with him, as his beginning assumptions about the world, and I would suspect about things like aesthetics, ethics, etc. are different than those of many of the rest of us, rendering rational debate about anything but those assumptions impossible. I therefore intend, after this post, to ignore him and his posts, even if addressed directly to me. I suggest others do the same. I suspect we would hear some comments about our "childishness" and how such lack of attention is symbolic of our hiding our heads from reality or some other such rhetorical nonsense. I frankly couldn't care less if something in that vein is the response I have provoked. The reality is we've heard Mr. Choggle head's arguments. They do not persuade. Here is posited a cogent counter argument, going to the heart of the issue, the fact that at least some of us don't buy into his premises. For many of us, it seems the mere fact that something is or is not a good business proposition does not make it a good or bad thing. This is, and will continue to be, one of the most serious flaws of neo-classical economics. It works against things like non-mainstream art and creative works. Everything becomes a function of profitability, turning culture, art, and entertainment into an excercise in pandering to demographics,(hence, the aesthetic and intellectual cesspool of shows like most if not all reality tv, and the carbon copy cop shows/sitcoms.) rather than genuine creation. I'm not an enormous Angel fan, I was actually a Buffy fan that started watching Angel this season when my favorite show got cancelled (largely, btw, because they put the "love him or hate him" Spike on the show.) I will be honest, I did not like the show as well as Buffy (side note: I thought seasons 5-7 of buffy the best. Merely my aesthetic preference, feel free to disagree.) However, I extend my deep sympathies to all you Angel fans, especially as it seems your show was cancelled before its time. I was fine with the cancellation of Buffy, I felt it had run its course and ended exactly when it should have. I am truly sorry that you do not get to watch the end of your show with the same feeling of satisfaction.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 4:08 a.m. CST

    I was disappointed when I heard the news,

    by jenn9394

    but I wasn't surprised. I was reading an article the other day, (I can't remember where) and I got the impression that Joss might not do a sixth season. It was like he was contemplating on continuing the series for another year. Angel will be greatly missed. It was one of my favourite shows on television. As for all the basher, I guess you have nothing better to do then to bash a show you probably didn't even watch. I don't know how someone can judge a show they didn't even watch, or just watched it a couple of times. If you don't like it, that's fine. Your intitled to your own interests. But don't come here and gloat about it. It is disrespectiful not only to the fans, but to the cast, producers, and yeah, even the network that broadcast the show.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 4:41 a.m. CST

    Spike's evolution

    by MightyyMouse

    It seems Spike's character is one of the most controversial in the Buffyverse. Personally, I adore Spike and most of the other Buffy fans I know do as well. For one, he is among the funniest, most complex and most insightful characters on television. I think his evolution, with the chip allowing him to become something in between good and evil, eventually culminating in his seeking out of his soul, was a very strong plot thread. It gave us a story about a vampire who sought redemption because he was in love, and who needed his soul as a way to find that redemption. For me these shows are all about character development and evolution, rather than the ins and outs and what demons you can kill and how. The characters were always the best parts of this universe, and watching the evolution of people like Willow, Wesley, Angel and Spike is fantastic. If Spike remained static, just an evil "super cool" punk vampire who served as a recurring villain he would have become boring, and contributed nothing. Instead, he provided buffy and angel fans with some very strong episodes and a character with excellent and believable development. In addition, he was played by James Marsters who (and I know there will be lots of disagreement on this) is an amazing actor with an enormous emotional and mental range, who is unfortunately under utilized by the tv and cinematic worlds.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 4:42 a.m. CST

    My first season, my last season.

    by NJM

    I started watching ANGEL THIS season, and have picked up a LOT from just watching very few reruns on TNT. I've ran with the storylines through the season, and have really become a fan of this show. Now, just when I'm really loving it, thinking that it's got, at least, two more season left in it, WB pulls the plug. Also, I agree that SMALLVILLE has fallen short of potential. They get started with story arcs and then, abandon them for half a season! ANGEL kept arcs going throughout the season, and that's now somehing that happens often. Most series just leave you with one self-contained story after another. ENTERPRISE has been asking for cancellation with their VOYAGER copycat style, and uninteresting characters. Also, TV series that comeback with TV movies always SUCK! MacGyver, Babylon 5, and all of those Knight Rider-wannabe TV movies were crap as well! The WB isn't gonna make any ANGEL TV movies. These sort of things are usually very bad afterthoughts with weak stories that rarely ever have any direct significance with the series' storylines at all. Man, I was lovin' ANGEL, and even with the very few past season episodes I've seen, I feel as though this was the BEST season of all. And in the last week, I've started watching BUFFY on FX! The final season no less. Poetic, I guess. Also, I agree with the poster who mentioned QUANTUM LEAP and BRIMSTONE getting cancelled before their time. I wrote-in TWO letters for the campaign to save BRIMSONE, but all it got us was SciFi rerunning the HALF season of episodes that got produced. Now, SciFi is planning on a QL TV movie. That'll probably pale next to the series as well, even WITH Backula & Stockwell reunited with their old chemistry. It's just so very sad that this season was going so fantastically well, and now, it's gonna end before it's time. But the WB continues with a host of shit and crap programming all around ANGEL that'll be around for another few years just to insult us. -NJM

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 4:55 a.m. CST

    What's your damn problem, chogglehead???

    by Crosses

    This Chogglehead guy is a complete asshole, now why in the hell is this moron posting on this talkback anyway? If I hated the show so much, I wouldn't bother posting here... I'll admit I'm a fan of ATS, and it's very unfortunate that this had to happen to them, because honestly, eventhough it seems this season isn't as good as the past ones were, it's simply because the show is covering completely different ground... If given time, it would've gotten better... or at the very least give it one more season to finally patch things up properly...give it a proper send off... Mr. Chogglehead, this talkback is filled with people who want to express their sadness because their favourite show was cancelled, the last thing we need is some moron coming here and giving us the whole "This is how its done in the real world..." bullshit... If you're happy about it being cancelled, then say so once only. Don't ever fuckin' come back and tell us it was a good thing and how sad and pathetic we are for posting our thoughts on the subject... Can't believe someone would actually badmouth the show so bad in a talkback full of fans...that in itself is just sad... What the hell is the point of doing that? Fucking Loser... By the way, I live in Hong Kong, so you must know ATS has a fan following here as well... even the Chinese...

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 5:16 a.m. CST

    Gutted, really.

    by [STARS]TyranT

    Angel imo was the only reason to actually bother with television these days without these fucking wannabe tryingtobereality drama's and stuff like that. Bah, fucking amazing how shit like ENTERPRISE or ANDROMEDA can live on despite it all. And this goes no matter how well it either does or doesn't. Ty^

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 5:38 a.m. CST

    hey Choggle

    by Darquon

    You wrote, "That's capitalism for you. If you don't like it, go live in China." Ummmmmm, I don't want to be an asshole troll or anything but China has a CAPITALIST ECONOMY. read a book and stop hating on these poor Whedon fans. They're having a bad day and you're just being a jerk.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:47 a.m. CST

    Crap!

    by zabbadoo

    Now I've only got like, 3 reasons left to watch TV Conan, Scrubs, Simpsons, South Park, Curb Your Enthusiasm... hmm... ok maybe not, ah well, it was awesome while it lasted, I'm just sad Fred and Cordelia never got a chance to explore their obvious lesbo attraction for each other. <cue cheezy porn music>.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 7:13 a.m. CST

    u gotta love these guys

    by Calm_b4_the_Strm

    i'm talking about these Spike fans who believe every year that a Spike spin-off is going to be happening soon . This character destroyed the last season of Buffy and now fucked up the last season of Angel and JM is 40 fucking years old !!!! theres no way he can carry a show as a vampire

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 7:30 a.m. CST

    The only thing that really killed Angel ...

    by TodayzSpecial

    The thing that killed ANGEL was the Conner Character! What a hole that was! Last season did suck big time with Angel's very unlikable son and his disgusting relationship with Cordelia. I really thought they pulled it from the ashes this year to rejuvinate the show. I suspect Whedon didn't really want Angel to continue last year because he had the BRILLIANT Firefly going. ANGEL did suffer from his divided attentions. It was very obvious that he had a new favorite child. However, when Firefly was cancelled, you could tell that the writing on Angel improved. They corrected all the nastiness by getting rid of Conner. This year, they were doing a fine job of redefining the characters and giving them new challenges. Granted, its still not as enjoyable as Firefly, but very little is.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 8:11 a.m. CST

    chogglepants

    by serpico04

    Listen bud stop beating. The horse is dead. We all understand that your happy they cancelled Angel. Just let the people vent that aren't so thrilled about it.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 8:19 a.m. CST

    Three things killed it: 1) The upcoming Dark Shadows revival. 2)

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    I think the WB would have continued the series had the production costs been kept down. But this season looks like it might have cost more than last. And the fact that the network has a vested interested in the Dark Shadows revival probably made decide to shitcan Angel. Don't run to FOX or UPN, folks; despite being a sister company, Angel just doesn't fit in FOX's increasingly mainstream America lineup. UPN still feels kind of burned over the amount of money they paid for the last two seasons of Buffy, verses the ratings they got for the episodes. Angel is over. Joss, the WB ain't going to give you TV movies -- that's all just bullshit to placate the fans to stem them from flooding the WB offices with hate mail. Wrap up the series with class and convince Sarah Michelle Gellar to show up for at least a couple of scenes because, unless you can get a movie off the ground at Fox (doubtful), this is the last we'll see of the Buffyverse on television.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 8:49 a.m. CST

    Indie Movie

    by johne5

    Well if Mutant Enemy could save some of the set or all of it, then maybe they could do an indie Angel movie for real cheap.......that's pretty desperate, just don't wanna lose Angel.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 9 a.m. CST

    Herc, Wanda is as reliable as the British train system

    by TheSecondEvil

    And those of you who are blaming Spike for the show getting cancelled have obviously been at the meths. It's a fact that the main reason the WB renewed Angel for Season Five was having Spike as a main cast member. Oh and Fuck Dark Shadows, it's probably going to end up being some crap angsty drama show like Charmed.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 9:03 a.m. CST

    really sucks

    by bazookaboy

    Angel is one of my favorite shows however i dont feel too bad because i just discovered a suitable sci-fi replacement--The dead zone!!!!

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 9:22 a.m. CST

    NewYorkKid, remember last year...

    by Purple Rain

    When you wanted to send bags of blood to The WB to get the show renewed like Roswell did with the Tabasco bottles? That idea is still the funniest thing I've ever read at AICN. Maybe you can go all hardcore and do it now.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 10:30 a.m. CST

    One of the few shows ever to get more interesting as went along.

    by Darksider

    There is so much more that could be done with this show. Maybe they'll do a Connor spin-off. (Sigh)

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 10:35 a.m. CST

    WB are a bunch of tools.

    by Darksider

    I just forgot to thank them for taking the only show of its kind off the air. Fuck Charmed and all the other stupid ass shows they do. Another damn reason to hate Valentine's Day. Damn it.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 11:01 a.m. CST

    Chogglehead

    by flave

    To all of you chowderheads responding to Chogglehead, get a clue. You're giving him way too much credit when you call him 'libertarian' or 'capitalist'. (Or even 'Chogglehead' -- you do a disservice to Choggleheads everywhere.) No, what we're dealing with here is simply a dysfunctional child who's desperately seeking the attention his mother never gave him (assuming he has a mother). By responding, you're giving him exactly what he wants, recognition that he exists. He's a "love me, hate me, just don't ignore me" kind of guy. And that's exactly what you must do -- ignore him. Ignore him and he'll fade away into nothingness. Like the whiff of a fart.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 11:02 a.m. CST

    Re: RDA/Stargate

    by Johnny Smith

    Um? Spoiler space for the season finale.................yeah, I don't remember the specifics, but apparently something happens to Jack, and he's dying, and he has his moments with all of the cast, and even comes close to shtupping Sam, but in the end is shot into the wormhole or space or something.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Angel, s'long buddy...

    by flave

    While I'll miss Angel, the show has had a great run and I think they were fading anyway. I'm very much looking forward to see what Whedon does next.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 11:06 a.m. CST

    the apocalypse is now... lustful thoughts... and bad mojo for th

    by atomheartbrother

    and i was gonna post about my strange feelings of pervertedness generated by seeing clips of dawn ho-ing it up in that euro trip movie (male pervert buffy fans know what i'm talking about... whether they feel like perverts or not) but this.... this is heartbreaking. at least those sonsabitches are giving the show a chance to wrap it up properly. my big question is: vis a vis the real possibility of another spinoff, is this the end of the buffyverse? i know it sounds silly but i'm really not keen on seeing this cool tv mythology go the way of the dodo. anyhoo, does this mean we have to wish bad mojo on eliza dushku's show so we could maybe get a faith spinoff? no.... just kidding... that ain't right. i guess i'll just have to take that bad mojo out on smallville....

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 11:12 a.m. CST

    What the hell is the point of taking a good vampire show off the

    by Darksider

    The reason that Angel worked was because it wasn't taken too seriously. Now here comes Dark Shadows, a show that has failed (twice)on bigger networks. Let me guess, all the cast will be young models. "The OC, with vampires!" Fucking stupid bastards. And with all the DC comics properties they could be pushing. Suits are just not creative, they're just walking calculators.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 11:16 a.m. CST

    ^#%$@&*(@^&#%

    by Speedstream

    I am so FUCKING pissed! This blows!!! The best TV show on the air has been cancelled!!!! The WB obviously has there heads slammed so far up their asses that they can see through their mouthes...and there vision is distorted!! After this...all that is left good on TV is Smallville...and that is a DEFINATE step down from ANGEL. A good show...but a definate step down. My goodness... i think my blood pressure just sky rocketed and i am not anywhere near old enough for that to happen!! Spoiled my entire morning now...later days*******For anyone who wants to see the officalk thing its at http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|86346|1|,00.html

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 11:18 a.m. CST

    RE: Re: RDA/Stargate

    by Trik

    Where I live Sci-fi is currently airing season 7 of SG1, and about half way thru season 7. Its been announced that SG1 will end after its 8th season and then spin off Atlantis. RDA says here: http://www.sg1archive.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=5532 that he will be there until the end and help launch Atlantis. Maybe his char does die in the first ep of Atlantis tho.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 11:21 a.m. CST

    Angel's End

    by The Alienist

    Okay. I'm officially a Geek. I cried when I heard the news. I was embarrassed by the fact somewhat, and I didn't cry long. And it probably wasn't really the end of "Angel" the show. It was the characters, the end of the Buffyverse, a world I have strangely loved and felt oddly a part of for so long now. I'm not sure why some of us take these non-existant people into our hearts like we do. I have a full life, a boyfriend I love, friends I'd kill for, an okay job, a creative life. I really don't need a hole filled. Why do I almost feel like these characters are friends? Why do I smile at their joys and ache from their pains. I have no idea, really. You who don't can mock us if you'd like, but we who love TV characters really can't help it. It's an honest feeling. And not a bad or sad one. It might be odd, but its real. Buffy and Xander and Faith and Cordy and Angel and Spike and Fred don't know me. I know that. But I know them. I spend more time with them than a lot of my friends and family because I see them every week. I watch because I care about them. Again, that's odd, but its how it is. And I don't think I need therapy. Perhaps this love of fictional tube people IS therapy. I guess I'm just very sad I won't be seeing my friends anymore.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Could be worse

    by Bakerloo

    At least we've got Charmed, Stargate, and a ton of f**king reality shows. The networks are spoiling us, they really are

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:11 p.m. CST

    EvilDead - are you on drugs????

    by Bakerloo

    Best show? Buffy has been shit since season 4 - the last season was no more than a Slayer's sleepover Angel has been superior for at least 3 seasons

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:21 p.m. CST

    David Boreanaz for Superman?

    by 4tune

    Has Angel has been cancelled so that David Boreanaz can play Superman in the upcoming film? The project does need a kick up the a**e ... although maybe not this!!

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:35 p.m. CST

    Er, George Reeves?

    by Bakerloo

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Three things you friggin morons

    by Xandr37

    1)Don't even bother posting unless you've seen the full maturing of these characters(eg. Angel since Buffy season1 and Spike since Buffy season2). 2) I don't agree that Spike should have been killed off, but I would have rather seen him dusted then turn good and become Buffy's fuck buddy, BUT!!! his character has recently become interesting and funny again just like he was in the beginning so he has not killed the show. He has added to the show in ways Fred and Lorne never could. Even Harmony who I nearly didn't watch this season because of has surprised me. 3) It is a shame that this is happening, but an even bigger shame that they didn't give more notice so that last weeks show could be the finale, because it would have been perfect. I just hope Whedon had a backup plan in case this happened so he can wrap up all of the loose ends unlike what happened with the Buffy finale.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Spike spin-off?

    by badboymason

    How about for a change of pace, they do a Spike spin-off that is a travelling show in the vein of Hulk/Fugitive/Littlest Hobo. Spike decides that for penance for his sins as a vampire, he has to go and help the little people for a change, out in smalltown America, travelling from town to town killing demons and catching killers. As far Marsters being too old to carry a series, not true in my opinion. He looks 30 or so, and plenty of shows in the past have had older leads. Tone down the coat/hair/punk image a little, as I think to carry the lead in a show he has to be taken a bit more seriously than the comic relief he sometimes is used as.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Joss Whedons Karma

    by cooper2000

    He fired Carpenter, screwed up the last two seasons of Buffy and was doing the same thing with this season of Angel. He obviously doesnt care anymore and has been pulling a "George Lucas". I can do what I want attitude and screw the fans. He will see that Firefly: the movie will flop and he will be the next Chris Carter.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:10 p.m. CST

    ...and they're keeping Charmed?

    by kathylyon

    You know, I really thought the viewership was strong enough to warrent at least one more year. It would have been enough time to help me forget year four (which I'm still trying to forget.) Sad to hear they're going to rehash that SL again. I thought the addition of Spike this year was a decent shot in the arm and was almost hoping for a Fred/Spike pairing, however I think the most intersting possibility I see is for the fall of Gunn's character. There is an idea which could have easily expanded into another and very interesting year. While the others decide to leave W&H, Gunn, so addicted to the knowledge he's been given becomes the new big bad. They pulled the plug just as things were getting interesting. And again, they're keeping "Charmed"? A show so creatively vacant that they have to steal from Harry Potter mythology to come up with an episode? And this week its "I Dream of Jeannie"? Every week its something else. If "Charmed" rips off another writer's work one more time, I'm going to start a petition to have it removed from the air.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:24 p.m. CST

    The Alienist, Very poignantly put...

    by buckna

    I think you summed up well the reasons so many people are disappointed when they hear their favorite show has been cancelled and I feel much the same as you do. This was sad news, Angel has been my favorite show for the past five years and despite the troubles and changes I perceived this season and last, I still made it a point to tune in every week no matter what. (Something I can't say for any other TV show on the air.) However, I for once will give the WB kudos for one sole thing, and that is at least they had the class to tell everyone involved in the show early enough that they will have time to write a "hopefully" fitting finale. I will miss you Angel, I will miss you Wesley, and I will miss you Cordy...

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:46 p.m. CST

    RE:I can't fucking believe this.

    by ogonekenobi

    WB has there head so far up their Marketing asses! I hope Joss gives a call to UPN. First, they let Buffy go and now this. The ratings where up higher than almost any other time during the whole run!

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 2:09 p.m. CST

    Sorry to see it go...but not torn up about it

    by dankato

    People will disagree with me but choggle_pants has a point. One that didn't need to be repeated as often as he did, but still valid nonetheless. Unfortunately, what happens when profit is the main objective is that products get dumbed down to appeal to the masses (look at phenomena like fast food, today's music and Windows for example). It is very rare nowadays for the same product to be brilliant and have mass appeal (The Sopranos being the only exception I know of off the top of my head). I'm not a Communist or anything like that (I'm a stockbroker). Just stating facts. That being said, I'm sorry to see Angel go but I'll deal with it (I have no choice but to deal with it) and take my eyeballs and dollars to other programs that have something to offer me. What we should take this opportunity to do is discussing shows that will fill the void. For me they would be: The Apprentice (an educational reality show, how about that), The Wire, The Sopranos (4th season was disappointing but set many things in motion for what should be a brilliant 5th season), Six Feet Under, Dead Like Me (I thought this was just going to be a weak SFU clone but really has its own personality and is surprisingly entertaining). What other shows should I tune into people?

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 2:21 p.m. CST

    Another way to complain to WB

    by kathylyon

    If you *do* like the show and want another way to express your unhappiness with the WB's decision, you can go through www.planetfeedback.com. I've actually gotten alot of responses from other corporations through them. Honestly, I'd like them to have just one more year to wrap it up. I think its only fair of those of us who were loyal enough to continue watching Angel on WB even after Buffy left. As soon as they cancel Angel, they've gotten rid of the last WB show that I have even the slightest bit of interest in.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 2:28 p.m. CST

    James Marsters

    by dankato

    To NewYorkKid: I have to disagree with you. James Marsters is a brilliant actor. Much better than David Boreanaz and better than SMG IMHO. In terms of acting ability I would have to say the 3 best actors in Buffyverse are (in random order): James Marsters, Anthony Stewart Head, Alexis Denisof. These 3 easily act circles around the rest of the cast.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 2:45 p.m. CST

    ...come to think of it...

    by Johnny Smith

    ...where *is* Chris Carter? I know that MILLENNIUM and HARSH REALM discs will be out this year...hope he does some commentaries...

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 2:52 p.m. CST

    by rtzornes

    Ok. It make be fruitless but... E-Mail WB at faces@thewb.com with more than just insults. Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/ai5d0162/petition.html

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 2:58 p.m. CST

    Alienist

    by MightyyMouse

    Hey, Alienist, don't let these guys rip on you too much about crying over it.That's ok, some of us actually know what its like to be able to become emotionally invested in a work of art, or tv show, or novel or other things. It doesn't make you lame in any way, it just means you have a degree of emotional depth that some people, by their complete lack of understanding, seem to fall short of. BTW, I thought it was courageous to admit it.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Whatever happened to class...

    by MightyyMouse

    You know, going through this, I've remembered why its been so long since I've gotten involved in a talkback. So much of it is nothing but a lame, pointless game of burns and one-upmanship. I am more than happy to have arguments about something, especially if everyone is able to actually form something resembling an argument, rather than a series of immature exclamations and insults. Its great to have people disagree about ideas and aesthetic preferences and the like, and to give reasons and whatnot, the ability to do that is a big part of what freedom and speech is supposed to be all about. I know there are a lot of responsible talk backers who have a degree of intelligence and class, but for those of you who aren't either get some of both, or please take your immature, attention seeking comments elsewhere.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Angel

    by A_Evenstar

    I've sent a letter to the WB, for the all the good it will do. I don't care what anyone says about it either, at least I felt a little better writing it...so here is a copy of my letter. To: faces@thewb.com Subject: "Excuse me, I have to call every person I have EVER met right now." Mr. Jordan Levin The WB Television Network 4000 Warner Blvd. Building 34R Burbank, CA 91522 Dear Mr. Levin, WHY, WHY, WHY??????? Why in the heck would you cancel the only brilliant TV show left to watch?? The announcement of the cancellation of Angel just breaks my heart...The only reason I ever tuned in to the frog was to watch Buffy for the first time. After your network's ridiculous move to cancel Buffy; the only reason I had to tune in, was to watch Angel. Sure, I watch Charmed as well, but it doesn't even hold a candle to Buffy or Angel in any single episode. Charmed has always just been a pit stop while waiting for Sex and the City to air. It's tepid dialogue and lukewarm plots aren't even worth watching in syndication. And yet it was renewed and Angel was not. I do not understand this Mr. Levin, you're re-making "Dark Shadows" again??? In case you were asleep in 1991; this show was re-made and aired on NBC for a grand total of 2 months!! It aired in January of 91' and was cancelled in March of the same year. They even had a superb cast, which I'm almost positive your version will not have, yet they failed miserably. Buffy and Angel were responsible for revolutionizing television viewers. People you wouldn't even count in your demographic, you know, people who don't watch TV? Yeah, well those people, were tuning in to watch a television series for the first time because there was finally something different, smart, funny and insightful being aired on the tube. Now it's all over, my friends and I have decided to boycott "Charmed" from now on. There is no reason to watch the WB again. We will not be tuning in to "Dark Shadows" either. I know, you don't really care but in case you are interested, we would like you to know that we are not your typical demographic. We are not fan boys or lonely women or teens. We are smart men and women in our 30's, who tuned in faithfully every Wednesday night for the only "Must See TV" night left on television. We had a regular group that hung out every Wednesday night to watch our favorite show, some of us even had our parents hooked! I can count at least 4 groups of parents that missed Buffy when it originally aired, and found out about it and Angel later, they now own all the DVD's!! They too will be disappointed. We will be getting together every Wednesday to watch the rest of the series, after that we will no longer tune in to the WB. Very sad indeed. I think this Wednesday we will also be deciding to boycott all reality television as well. I think reality television has forever ruined any chance for decent, original shows ever getting a shot. Who knows, maybe you did us all a favor, the world is such an ugly place right now, we took comfort in forgetting about it for just a little while on Wednesday nights. Maybe now we will all get our asses of the couch and start paying more attention to things that are more important, we were spending too much time watching television anyway. We should all volunteer more, and read more, and care more. Now; I think it may be time to trim some of the expense of my too high cable bill. Why pay for so many channels when there is nothing on I still want to watch. I'm really bummed out and blown away! From now on, Friday the 13th will be a reminder of the day the party ended on the WB!!! A sad day indeed. Respectfully Yours, Arwen Elanor Tedhams Austin, Texas

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Angel gets the axe from The AXEMAN

    by Mark D

    Today I read an article and I thought I would throw in my half-cent's worth about the wb axing angel. One of the TB's said that buffy was killed at series 5, it was actually series 7. The article I read was about a book from nixon pollster called Kevin Phillips. While youre thinking that this has 0 to do with Angel. Phillips writes that America under the bush family is being turned into a theotocracy. Slowly, anything with a dark edge is being withdrawn, shelved, axed or changed or watered down. I do believe that we are going back to the care bears era of film making and tv programming. The Moral majority has now got friends in high places and if they dont like shows like buffy, angel etc they can get them off tv. I do tie this in with what to Janet Jackson last week. I believe that its reaction was politically motivated. If you relect Bush, there will be more of this kind of thing. For the sake of the world, this administration, must be voted out of office. Mark out.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Angel

    by A_Evenstar

    I've sent a letter to the WB, for the all the good it will do. I don't care what anyone says about it either, at least I felt a little better writing it...so here is a copy of my letter. To: faces@thewb.com Subject: "Excuse me, I have to call every person I have EVER met right now." Mr. Jordan Levin The WB Television Network 4000 Warner Blvd. Building 34R Burbank, CA 91522 Dear Mr. Levin, WHY, WHY, WHY??????? Why in the heck would you cancel the only brilliant TV show left to watch?? The announcement of the cancellation of Angel just breaks my heart...The only reason I ever tuned in to the frog was to watch Buffy for the first time. After your network's ridiculous move to cancel Buffy; the only reason I had to tune in, was to watch Angel. Sure, I watch Charmed as well, but it doesn't even hold a candle to Buffy or Angel in any single episode. Charmed has always just been a pit stop while waiting for Sex and the City to air. It's tepid dialogue and lukewarm plots aren't even worth watching in syndication. And yet it was renewed and Angel was not. I do not understand this Mr. Levin, you're re-making "Dark Shadows" again??? In case you were asleep in 1991; this show was re-made and aired on NBC for a grand total of 2 months!! It aired in January of 91' and was cancelled in March of the same year. They even had a superb cast, which I'm almost positive your version will not have, yet they failed miserably. Buffy and Angel were responsible for revolutionizing television viewers. People you wouldn't even count in your demographic, you know, people who don't watch TV? Yeah, well those people, were tuning in to watch a television series for the first time because there was finally something different, smart, funny and insightful being aired on the tube. Now it's all over, my friends and I have decided to boycott "Charmed" from now on. There is no reason to watch the WB again. We will not be tuning in to "Dark Shadows" either. I know, you don't really care but in case you are interested, we would like you to know that we are not your typical demographic. We are not fan boys or lonely women or teens. We are smart men and women in our 30's, who tuned in faithfully every Wednesday night for the only "Must See TV" night left on television. We had a regular group that hung out every Wednesday night to watch our favorite show, some of us even had our parents hooked! I can count at least 4 groups of parents that missed Buffy when it originally aired, and found out about it and Angel later, they now own all the DVD's!! They too will be disappointed. We will be getting together every Wednesday to watch the rest of the series, after that we will no longer tune in to the WB. Very sad indeed. I think this Wednesday we will also be deciding to boycott all reality television as well. I think reality television has forever ruined any chance for decent, original shows ever getting a shot. Who knows, maybe you did us all a favor, the world is such an ugly place right now, we took comfort in forgetting about it for just a little while on Wednesday nights. Maybe now we will all get our asses of the couch and start paying more attention to things that are more important, we were spending too much time watching television anyway. We should all volunteer more, and read more, and care more. Now; I think it may be time to trim some of the expense of my too high cable bill. Why pay for so many channels when there is nothing on I still want to watch. I'm really bummed out and blown away! From now on, Friday the 13th will be a reminder of the day the party ended on the WB!!! A sad day indeed. Respectfully Yours, Arwen Elanor Tedhams Austin, Texas

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 3:43 p.m. CST

    The whole story

    by dankato

    Maybe we don't have thw whole story. If the ratings are there then there is some other reason that it's being taken off the air. There is a possibility that it isn't the WB that we should be blaming but Mutant Enemy and Joss Whedon. What if they've asked for too much money to make keeping Angel on the air commercially viable even with its ratings? There is also a possibility that there is something personal going on between ME and the WB. We don't know all the factors behind the decision so for now (and always), the best thing we can do is vote with our dollars. Losing 10 million dollars in ad revenue beats all the petitions and grass roots efforts in the world.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 3:55 p.m. CST

    and they let ...

    by TodayzSpecial

    And they let Dawson's Creek last for seven years?!?!?! I'll never get creative executives!

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 3:56 p.m. CST

    Character evolution, and why Spike added so much to the show

    by SpikeTBB

    I recently watched a rerun of the Angel episode with Bethany, the telekenitic girl who had been molested as a child. EXCELLENT acting all around, and showing us once again how much Charisma added to the show. Bethany would habve been a good charcacter to have return and add another female to the mix. But the great points of the Buffyverse characters, when they work, is that they evolve and develope. The second most important point is that none of them are perfectly evil or perfectly good. Not Angel or Spike or Codelia or Liliah or Wes or Gunn or any of them are perfect. They have layers and changed while still retaining managing to stay the same characters. The one character who failed at this, due to the writing, was Willow. Always has been and always will be afavorite of mine but they did her wrong the last few seasons. But it wasn't Alyson's fault. Anyway, Spike and Angel have both deveoped and changed over the years. Thier experinces teach them and affect them and they are complex. If spike had just stayed evil he would have been aone trick pony and been dusted long ago, Anyone remember how dull The Master got? But as occasional guest appereances The Master worked great. but to work, for th elong run, you need change. Spike also allowed Angel some great scenes to interact with him in. The hiostroy of those two chartacters added a lot of weight to their scenes. The key element here is every one of the full devleope characters of the stories wanted to belong and be loved, even if they wanted to be loved so they could hurt the one who loved them (Angelus and Buffy) Spike and Angel had a relationship of past hate but also a bond. Trusth is, they like each other like two competing brothers. Spike envies the respect and chances Angel gets. Part of Angel envies Spike's comparitive freedom and I don't give a damn attitude. Bottom line, no matter who says to the contrary, Spike is a great character amoung a cast of great characters, and he brought a lot to the show.there is nothing else on TV that copmes close to the level of quality of the Buffy?Angel show, even on its bad days.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Rev Ninjaman MD

    by MightyyMouse

    I have to say, I was astonished by the quality of your argument. Oh, if only I had thought of the "you're retarded" logical progression when I was considering whether or not to give Angel status as a work of art or even just as a general creative work (the latter of which it undeniably is, and which it is also ok to become emotionally invested in.) However, I implicitly did posit the thesis that Angel is a work of art, so I will defend it. The only thing even resembling an argument that you made was that you seem hold that the subject of a work can in and of itself remove said work from consideration as art. ("It's a show about... Demons!!") If this is the case, than we have to define what subject matter can be considered art. Is it only real world subject matter that has nothing to do with the supernatural that can be art? In that case, we have ruled out books like Dante's Divine Comedy, and the Tolkien Trilogy. We may also have ruled out the Sistene Chapel Ceiling, as well as all other religious works that deal with the supernatural/metaphysical. Pretty much any movie that is a work of M Night Shyalaman, Tim Burton, or any movie dealing with anything supernatural is not art either. It seems like this becomes a pretty boring and restrictive definition of art, which is by its nature supposed to be creative and free form, a reflection of the mind, soul and imagination of the artist that connects with the audience in some way. So perhaps you are emphasizing the "tv show" part of the argument rather than the "demons" part. You are therefore implicitly saying that the medium of the work is in and of itself able to disqualify the work as art. While this may be a stronger argument than the subject matter argument, it still doesn't work, especially in this case. If we are saying that an hour show can't count as art, but movies can (and movies are widely recognized as an art form), we are only making a distinction in regards to time length (hour vs. two) and original place of presentation (movie theatre vs. television). These alter some internal specifics in regards to manner of production and storytelling, but the type of medium, film, with actors, directors, etc. remains the same. Therefore, claiming that tv can't be art is a very short distance from claiming movies aren't either. Further, such a claim lacks premises, unless one wants to claim that art cannot be active or ongoing (ie, must be static and finite), which eliminates things like music, dance and theatre. Arguments that tv can't be art, or subject matter regarding the supernatural can't be art, are purely arbitrary. Essentially, art is a work of human beings created to a significant degree for its aesthetic value. If you want to say something is bad art, fine, you are entitled to your aesthetic intuition. Also, of you are going to make such comments, try to actually make an argument, maybe even a defensible one, so you don't have to resort to epithets and and hide behind arbitrary exclamations that fall apart at the merest beginnings of a rational examination. If you don't actually know how to do so, I'm sure that a college near you, community or otherwise, offers some speech, rhetoric, writing or philosophy classes that may help.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 4:03 p.m. CST

    Character development and why Spike added so much to the show

    by SpikeTBB

    Sorry, I hit the post button before I even proof read it, much less corrected anything. Here is the corrected version Recently watched a rerun of the Angel episode with Bethany, the telekinetic girl who had been molested as a child. EXCELLENT acting all around, and showing us once again how much Charisma added to the show. Bethany would have been a good character to have return and add another female to the mix. But the great points of the Buffyverse characters, when they work, are that they evolve and developed. The second most important point is that none of them are perfectly evil or perfectly good. Not Angel or Spike or Cordelia or Liliah or Wes or Gunn or any of them are perfect. They have layers and changed while still retaining managing to stay the same characters. The one character, who failed at this, due to the writing, was Willow. Always has been and always will be a favorite of mine but they did her wrong the last few seasons. But it wasn't Alyson's fault. Anyway, Spike and Angel have both developed and changed over the years. Their experiences teach them and affect them and they are complex. If spike had just stayed evil he would have been a one trick pony and been dusted long ago, Anyone remember how dull The Master got? But as occasional guest appearances The Master worked great. But to work, for the long run, you need change. Spike also allowed Angel some great scenes to interact with him in. The history of those two characters added a lot of weight to their scenes. The key element here is every one of the full developed characters of the stories wanted to belong and be loved, even if they wanted to be loved so they could hurt the one who loved them (Angelus and Buffy) Spike and Angel had a relationship of past hate but also a bond. Truth is, they like each other like two competing brothers. Spike envies the respect and chances Angel gets. Part of Angel envies Spike's comparative freedom and I don't give a damn attitude. Bottom line, no matter who says to the contrary, Spike is a great character among a cast of great characters, and he brought a lot to the show. There is nothing else on TV that comes close to the level of quality of the Buffy/Angel show, even on its bad days.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 4:25 p.m. CST

    EvilDead

    by dankato

    This will be my first and last post acknowledging your existence. You really should read the post regarding "Class". I have no problem with people disagreeing with me but I do have a problem with people who result to flame wars in order to get their point across. Calling me names will not change my mind nor will it be acknowledged after this one post lest you believe that I will be drawn into some playground argument. So if you think about it, there is nothing in it for you. The best thing for you to do is come back with some rational discussion. Otherwise, you're not contributing to this forum and should be banned.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 4:37 p.m. CST

    petition

    by JCUK

    Hey guys go and save angel by going to www.petitiononline.com/ai5d0162/ By the looks of how many people are signing Wb cant ignore us.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 5:14 p.m. CST

    RE: What happened to Chris Carter?

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    Nobody seems to be sure. It's been reported that 1013 Productions is no longer on the Fox lot, suggesting that Twentieth Century Television chose not to renew its relationship with the company. Carter/1013 reportedly had a deal with the film division, but it may have been an informal one. So far, nothing seems to be happening in that front either, and the movie divisions didn't seem too keen on Carter's movie idea -- a bio about some psychic man, or something like that. It was passed around among the three film divisions (20th Century, Searchlight, the much smaller Fox 2000 -- which last I heard might be defunct now), and none of them were interested. So, this doesn't spell good news about a second X-Files feature. It's rumored that Carter pitched an idea for another movie, and the studio executives just didn't like it (some "monster of the week" idea). Since Fox owns "The X-Files", they don't technically need Carter or 1013 to do their own movie. All they probably need is just David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson, whom they can negotiate with on their own, and hear pitches from other screenwriters for ideas. But it's unlikely Fox even cares enough about doing another "X-Files" movie, and Duchovny doesn't seem eager to get back into it either. Chris Carter simply did not foster long lasting relationships well in this business -- and that's what the movie and TV biz is all about. Relationships. I'm afraid Joss Whedon may be in a similar boat now.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:16 p.m. CST

    choggle pants

    by hulk_beanpoll

    choggle pants is soooo clever that he's borrowing his arguments from his favourite ten year old cartoon character.<p>"The fact is, they owe you nothing. All they've done is given you hundreds of hours of free entertainment. If anything, you owe them."<p>This is word for word what Bart Simpson said about the Itchy and Scratchy show.<p>But lets not judge choggle head too harshly. I'm sure he has some original arguments. Why I bet if we sit right down he'll tell us a tale. A tale of a fateful trip...

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:24 p.m. CST

    choggle pants

    by EveKendall

    Why so much hatred?

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Stunned......just stunned

    by RobinP

    I hoped that Angel would at least carry on for seven seasons. I just don't get this at all. I thought Season 4 was a little heavy going but season 5 is GREAT so far (note, I'm in the UK watching on Sky tv and we're about five episodes in to the new season) Now, all I have to watch on tv is new episodes of The Simpsons - I gave up on Enterprise several episodes ago. Xindi my ass !! !

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:49 p.m. CST

    Statement from Whedon...

    by OgamiTito

    pulled from the CHUD boards, not sure where they got it, but it reads like Joss: "Some of you may have heard the hilarious news. I thought this would be a good time to weigh in. To answer some obvious questions: No, we had no idea this was coming. Yes, we will finish out the season. No, I don't think the WB is doing the right thing. Yes, I'm grateful they did it early enough for my people to find other jobs. Yes, my heart is breaking. When Buffy ended, I was tapped out and ready to send it off. When Firefly got the axe, I went into a state of denial so huge it may very well cause a movie. But Angel... we really were starting to feel like we were on top, hitting our stride -- and then we strode right into the Pit of Snakes 'n' Lava. I'm so into these characters, these actors, the situations we're building... you wanna know how I feel? Watch the first act of "The Body." As far as TV movies or whatever, I'm not thinking that far ahead. I actually hope my actors and writers are all too busy. We always planned this season finale to be a great capper to the season and the show in general. (And a great platform for a new season, of course.) We'll proceed ahead as planned. I've never made mainstream TV very well. I like surprises, and TV isn't about surprises, unless the surprise is who gets voted off of something. I've been lucky to sneak this strange, strange show over the airwaves for as long as I have. I don't FEEL lucky, but I understand that I am. Thanks all for your support, your community, and your perfectly sane devotion. It's meant a lot. I regret nothing (except the string of grisley murders in the 80's -- what was THAT all about?) Remember the words of the poet: "Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." See you soon. "

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:49 p.m. CST

    a slightly different opinion

    by Kungfumanchu

    I may be in the minority,but as much as I like the show,this has felt like a closing-up season to me from early on.I've enjoyed the episodes thus far but after watching a 2+year story arc,this year with the stand alones has seemed like a catch your breath season.I used to watch the next week on Angel promos & think "oh hell,I can't wait to see what happens next" but now it's more of a "yeah,that looks cool" kinda thing,which ain't bad but it's not the same.The best eps to me have been the ones where they have gotten out of the office & actually DONE something,which used to happen way more frequently.Walking around the office just doesn't do it for me.I don't have any problem with Spike as some do,but I do think the addition of his character has taken a lot of time from the others(good & bad,I know).That might not matter much on it's own,but added with the loss of Cordelia,I think it makes a significant difference.When you go back & watch previous seasons,it becomes obvious how vital she was to this show,even more than Angel in some ways.I hadn't given that too much thought until watching her final ep & getting smacked in the face with it.Last year when there was a question if Angel would get picked up,I was concerned because I wanted to see what would happen after such a long,apocalyptic storyline.I didn't feel it was yet time to end it & they should have more great stories to tell.After the first 7 or so shows this year,my thought was that while it would suck if it got cancelled & I'd miss it,it's a hell of a lot better season to conclude on than last year. When I saw the Dark Shadows news,I saw the writing on the wall 'cause it'll be way easier to turn that into a "will they or won't they" teenager series which seems to be WB's forte.Yeah it blows,but I'm for one happy to have had 12 seasons of Buffy & Angel & can't wait to see what Whedon comes up with next.The f/x suggestion posted earlier sounds like something that would kick serious ass.Fingers crossed.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:59 p.m. CST

    Least it had a good run..

    by HavocZer0

    Just got back into watching it...shame to see it go.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 7:25 p.m. CST

    A_Evenstar

    by thegraduate

    Three things: 1. I whole-heartedly agree with you that this is a sad experience for all fans of the show. 2. Arwen - cool name. I bet your parents are fun to hang out with. 3. I think that your infatuation with the almighty exclamation mark (!) may have screwed up the talkback board (see your last post). lol Have a nice day!

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 7:26 p.m. CST

    figures

    by thegraduate

    As soon as I post something about it, the board gets fixed. blah

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 7:38 p.m. CST

    sorry

    by A_Evenstar

    Only my 3rd post here ever and I screwed up the talkbacks with excessive exclamation marks...sorry. I'll edit and post again. God's Nightgown!!

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 7:40 p.m. CST

    Yeah, Right

    by A_Evenstar

    I cannot begin to understand the reasons I feel compelled to reply to someone named

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 7:45 p.m. CST

    Bloody hell

    by Toby___Wong

    Did it occur to anyone else, that this show was cancelled right after an episode with Spike wearing a swastika sign ? Is there anyone else who thinks this is a bit too obvious ?

  • It means as the original vampire detective genre. Which had plenty of room for Spike. Angel himself is an engageing character and David plays him well. But he is at his best when he has all that Spike adds to it to play off of. The loss of direction came when Connor was introduced, Cordelia was impregnated and possed, and the team moved to Wolfram and Hart. THAT was when the show changed and went in a diferrent direction. The Cordelia episode even hinted at that. We help the helpless. spike was obviously the way to try and get things back on track. a character who was like the way things used to be mocking the way things have become and trying to pull things back to where they should be. Joss was not saying NO spike, he was saying more Spike and Angel and the original concept. Less corporate , more street fighter.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 8:01 p.m. CST

    A peaceful death

    by hanksummers

    As a devoted Buffy and Angel fan, this is the best thing. Sorry, this season hasn't been the best. Everyone I know that saw the recent Cordy episode and said, oh, yea, that was when it was good. Not when she was off with grusalug, or crazy or whatever. But the whole team. Fine, Cordy and Angel would have never been together like Angel and Buffy, but they didn't need to be. Hopefully SMG will come back for the final, she owes it -- does anyone know any real gossip out there about why NO ONE from the cast mentions her in a personal way -- all they ever say is how "professional" she is...Anyway, I'm off topic. Let it go now, because Buffy went on too long too. She should have stayed dead when she saved the world, because the only good episode after that was "Once More With Feeling" anyway. The quality went down hill, the momentum was lost -- so lets not have this happen to Angel -- everyone should be happy it goes on with a bang and not a whimper.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 8:06 p.m. CST

    The Joss quote

    by SpikeTBB

    Some of you may have heard the hilarious news. I thought this would be a good time to weigh in. to answer some obvious questions: No, we had no idea this was coming. Yes, we will finish out the season. No, I don't think the WB is doing the right thing. Yes, I'm grateful they did it early enough for my people to find other jobs. Yes, my heart is breaking. The quote from Joss: When Buffy ended, I was tapped out and ready to send it off. When Firefly got the axe, I went into a state of denial so huge it may very well cause a movie. But Angel... we really were starting to feel like we were on top, hitting our stride -- and then we strode right into the Pit of Snakes 'n' Lava. I'm so into these characters, these actors, the situations we're building... you wanna know how I feel? Watch the first act of "The Body." No anti-Spike sentiment here, just supports my statement that it was the Connor/possesed Cordelia storyline he is talking about. It does settle the question of if it was Joss or the WB that decided to end it.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 8:36 p.m. CST

    The Grerat Big Choggle Troll

    by Real Deal

    Wow! It doesn't seem like you're very popular here. I wonder how a gamefully employed person ( who's all grown up, worldly, and such ) could devote so much time to this? Well really I can tell from your posts that you're just here to have a little fun flame-baiting people who are upset about Angel being canceled. Still getting your kicks? I haven't been here since last night myself but wasn't surprised at what I saw when I came back. So I'll ask the same question I do all trolls. If you don't like the show so much why bother posting in a thread about it? If that's what Angel means to you why not just let it go? I'll bet it's because it has something to do with stroking your own ego at someone else's expense. You know there are other kinds of attention you can get. Myself I have to go back into work for a couple of houras. Will see if your still here when I get back. Sincerly, Real Deal

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 8:50 p.m. CST

    Fix the forum please

    by Trik

    someone broke the side scrolling Thanks

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 9:23 p.m. CST

    nearly everything is argumentative

    by MightyyMouse

    Everything is an argument. That's the only way reasonable discourse happens. You can call something a fact all you want, but that doesn't make it so if everyone else doesn't recognize it as such. Very few things are actually hard facts, and most of those fall into the categories of mathematics, deductive reasoning, and barebones empirical description. Hence, the need for arguments. I would ask, before you respond again, that you either get some education or at least try to compose an actual response rather than resorting to middle school rhetoric. This is the last post in which I will waste my time responding to you, unless you have something intelligent to say. I myself would not have cried over Angel, nor Buffy, but if someone else is so emotionally invested it is not a reason to attack them. What a pathetic excuse for a human being you must be, to need to gain gratification from attacking the feelings and passions of others. At any rate, my points still stand, and your juvenile response reveals your ignorance, and inability to actually answer them. It is you who have wasted your time, by failing to respond in any meaningful way.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 10:57 p.m. CST

    Uh oh... another thirty seconds out of my day

    by MightyyMouse

    This is very little effort from me, actually. These posts are me just using what I know. I hate to burst your bubble, but even though it may be a colossal feat whenever you put together a coherent sentence, for some of us its a walk in the park. But I will take the few minutes out of my day that it takes to participate in a discussion, and to show ignorant bullies for what they are.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 11 p.m. CST

    There's another five seconds

    by MightyyMouse

    Oh, and my points have still not been answered.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 12:51 a.m. CST

    Tickets will go on sale Saturday, February 21, 2004 at 10:00AM C

    by DawnOfTheDead

    David Boreanaz as a very special guest in his only scheduled U.S. convention appearance......http://www.flashbackweekend.com

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 2:19 a.m. CST

    One little hope

    by DrStrange

    If memory serves, back when UPN bought Buffy and Roswel from WB, there was an option that **if WB ever decides to cancel Angel then UPN can buy that series from them as well to show on UPN** Anyone want to remind UPN of this little clause? They could use a good series or two.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 2:23 a.m. CST

    bastards

    by bobsraft

    bastards...

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 2:28 a.m. CST

    Jeez

    by midwat

    I always find it funny when people attempt to bring civility into an AICN talkback. C'mon, the highest level of discourse here is the erudite "you're retarded" argument. So some people liked the show. It's good that they found something they liked, bad that it was cancelled. Some people didn't like the show. They have the right to express their opinion too. Personally, I refuse to deal with the WB at any level. Angel wasn't my brand of whiskey, nor is anything else that they show, but I too know the pain of a personal favorite series taken away from me *cough*FamilyGuy*cough* so I can feel for them. And chogglepants is probably right that they didn't cancel Angel without what seemed to them as a good reason.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 3:30 a.m. CST

    This is even worse news than A Rod getting traded to the evil em

    by jules windex

    Well, close. Oh well, the WB may not even exist in another couple years, so maybe this is good that the show gets out before then.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 5:03 a.m. CST

    Not only is Banned2ManyTimes a fucking douche...

    by Voice O. Reason

    ...but he stretched the talkback just to type some moronic laughter. Apparently someone hasn't been banned ENOUGH times. Dickwad.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 7:56 a.m. CST

    Hey Choggle Pants!!

    by RDT

    I was looking through the posts about the Angel cancellation and came across this: "Television is funded 100% by advertising, and if the day comes when people are able to totally edit out commercials, then TV WILL GO BROKE." Do you have any idea just how much of a jackass this statement makes you sound like? I have 3 letters that will completely prove my point: H, B, and O. Yes, my friend, they call it cable, and channels like HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc. rely on PAYING subscribers to generate revenue. This is why their programming is commercial-free. I can also say that as DVR's (like Tivo and Replay) become more popular and people do skip commercials, you will start to see TV as a medium change. What I eventually see happening (and this is pure speculation, so please feel free to insult me personally as needed), is individual TV shows start to become subscriber based. You'll either pay a slight fee for individual episodes, or a bulk rate for a whole season. You'll also be able to watch them whenever you want. Now will this take the advertisers out of the equation? Not at all. Commercials? Probably, but you'll definitely see a lot more "in show" product placement. And probably shows sponsored by specific products & companies. But hey, what do I know? I'm just a guy who's worked in or followed the television industry for the bulk of his life. You, however, are a guy who willingly goes by the name "Choggle Pants." I defer to you, sir (or perhaps madam). --RDT

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 10:10 a.m. CST

    UPN clause

    by DarthHomercles

    That clause to pick up ANGEL if it were cancelled by the WB was only during the duration of their BUFFY contract. In case you haven't noticed, BUFFY isn't on the air anymore so that contract clause is null and void. Not that UPN would jump after ANGEL anyway, seeing as how they lost money on BUFFY and weren't too happy with S6.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 10:16 a.m. CST

    Choggle pants is a knob jockey

    by Aligator_am

    The shows that you say you like are just more generic bullshit and the reason they're still on the air is because in the eyes of TV bosses the american masses have blinker vision, and anything outside that safe zone is seen as unpredictable so these management types dont want to rock the boat. I truly can't believe that they cancelled this show and leave all that reality bollox on the air, this is a slap in the face to any person who enjoys thinking about what they watch, not just switching off and looking at the screen. This leaves me now with Stargate-SG1 and Enterprise (which i think is gonna get the chop pretty soon) and that's all, this is a crock of shit man, what the fuck happened to telly?

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 11:25 a.m. CST

    Thanks! Aligator am

    by Real Deal

    Well said!

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 12:03 p.m. CST

    The pain, the rage

    by Sassy1

    There are no words to describe the rage and pain that I feel right now. Why, Joss, why??????????????????????

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 12:35 p.m. CST

    500,000 dvds sold!

    by u.k. star

    in america they sold over 1/2 a million season 2 dvds last year. at around $50 each! as soon as i read that a few weeks ago i knew the show was dead. why would the execs spend money making new episodes, that may or may not be successful, when they can make that kind of money on 5 years they've already paid for? and they obviously think their "tv movies" will sell just as well. shame really

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 12:48 p.m. CST

    WB....

    by Rapmaster C

    I never really got on the bandwagon with the "lets hate WB". But now, I'm afraid I am - cause they cancelled one of my favourite shows. Angel was awesome and now its gone. How can they screw everything up? Just how?

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 2:37 p.m. CST

    I liked Angel, but seriously guys it's time.

    by The Founder

    Angel has been on for 5 years, and will have it's last sixth season. I think they need to wrap it up, It's losing it's appeal to me. Also a Vampire is ageless, and Boreanaz is getting older, so really how long could this show go on?

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 3:48 p.m. CST

    Fucking fanboys

    by ScottishLord825

    Who honestly gives a flying rat's ass about some stupid WB/UPN crap show like Muffy and Angel? WTF nothing but a bunch of fucking fanboy losers in these posts! Seems the only ones with a clue are Choggle Pants and the others who hate this Joss (faggot name) Whendon shit! How many of you get your panties wet every night watching shows like Angel? Get outside, play sports, (hell watch sports), meet women, geez do something with your lives instead of bitching about some show that 12 year old girls watch and 35 year virgins watch as well. Amazingly enough WB has done something right for once by cancelling this garbage. Now if they could only do something about their DC properties.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 4:15 p.m. CST

    the children here

    by Bouncy X

    After checking this site a few times in the last year, i decided to come on and post and be annoying. It's so funny to see these kids come and bash others for their love of Angel or any similar show. It's just hilarious to see them put down others over something and then say the shit they watch is better...oh the hypocrites never die do they? lol "Shows about demons and monsters isn't cool, shows about cops and robbers and lawyers and comic book heroes and sports..now that's tv" That was my impression of the children here...thank you *bows* At least these people like more than generic hollywood bullshit, if only those idiots could say the same. It's one thing to hate a show because you simply dont like it, but to actually claim to hate it while you like stuff just as bad if not worse...now that's funny. I won't even get into the fact that if you truly hate something, you avoid it...you don't go in forums about it just to be immature. (oops guess i did..oh well) you internet kids are just hilarious.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Angel Bash

    by ProfessorChaos

    The Buffy Bash was the greatest, so how about it?

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 4:23 p.m. CST

    yep, yep, uh-huh

    by ScottishLord825

    Fuckin' A! Choggle Pants. There is nothing wrong at all with sci-fi, fantasy like you said. Sadly though you and I are in the minority when it comes to this board. But what can one expect with all the drones that flock to Joss Whedon's teet! By the way that's a great idea you have there. It's a shame the WB has their heads up their collective asses when it comes to DC. Look at the Catwoman " movie " (and I use the word loosely) and the chaos that is Superman. Thankfully Batman looks good! However,that's a rant for another board. Anyway know that you're not the only one who hates these shows. Writing and acting are deplorable, characters are typical clich

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 4:30 p.m. CST

    tee hee...i made the choggle child speak

    by Bouncy X

    I knew this would work lol. Gotta love kids who think a show is good just because it wins emmys or any award for that matter...lmao. That is just precious my child. And oh, you like reality shows too? Damn you're just one big lost cause. Oh and if you're gonna respond to this, do try and be original and not spit out the same shit over and over about ur little cop and robber shows and those reality type shows being better for whatever deluded reason you're little mind thinks up.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 4:32 p.m. CST

    chogglepants(or whatever your lame name is)...the end of ANGEL..

    by Speedstream

    Just so i can get this outta the day...choggle pants...you are a dumbass. You've overstayed your welcome on here. You've posted so many times on here i am wondering if you even have a life outside our our ANGEL talkback here...I mean you've devoted SO MUCH time to something you supposedly hate...kinda seems contradictory to me. I agree w/ the guy that says u just want to be noticed...so I'm takin his advice and ignoring you...and other posts i see by u I will scroll right by and write them off as controban and a waste of my precious (and everyone elses on here) precious time.*******Wow...the anger i felt well up yesterday pissed me off to a near inhuman level. Granted the show has had its more...interesting...arcs over the past season or so...but nothing that deserved to get it cancelled. Because it was so unique...it made it e best show on TV. The charectors...the acting...the story(most of the time)...all made it far superior to anything else on TV! This show should...and will...be mourned.*******As for how they do the ending. According to what I have heard...Joss had a perfect ending planned out that would give closure to this season...total closure to this season...but also lead us into a possible 6th season. He stated in his press release that he will continue as he planned. I am takin that to mean he is going to do the ending that he originally planned. That is unless...and this would be huge...SMG dropped a suprise call to Joss after Friday b/c i am sure she knows...and agreed to show up for the end! OR...Joss has some info about these TV movies that we dont...and MAYBE they'll wrap up the Buff/ANGELverse in one of those...A BIG TV EVENT...or something along those lines. I could see that...(hopefully). As long as thereis closure i think i can be satasfied. ANGERY and pissed beyond recognition...but satasfied.*******Its been a good run...and hopefully someday it will fully appricated for the greatness that it is...and not bashed by dumbass' like chugglefuck or whatever and silveragent...who i might am i am SO GLAD i am not seeing on here...that would just about end it for me there! later days

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Choggle pants is an idiot, don't listen to him.

    by Craiggers

    Not because he hates Angel. hey, the show isn't for everybody. He's an idiot because he hangs around a talkback devoted to a show which he hates, dissing the show just to ruffle some feathers. If this loser has nothing better to do, than fuck him. And his reasons for not liking the show? Because it hasn't won any Emmy's; and he calls US a flock of zombies. Shows like Emmy's are just circle jerks for the television shows that cater to gullible assholes like Choggle Pants who immediately flock ot whatever shit the award show's recommend. If they gave an Emmy to a pile of monkey shit, Choggles would probably sit and watch it for days. West Wing? NYPD Blue? To me, those shows are about as exciting as a pile of monkey shit, which would explain Choggle's fascination with them. To sum up, Angel is a good show, so was Buffy. It doesn't matter what assholes like Choggle Pants or the judges at the Emmy's think - they are still good shows.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 4:52 p.m. CST

    drinks on me

    by ScottishLord825

    Choggle Pants! I will drink to that! Now I may not agree with everything you say. Vampire mythos like Blade are cool. While I don't particularly care for reality TV,( I have never seen The Apprentice and I dislike Donald Trump and his hair) I do agree with you that shit like Angel being cancelled will only make TV better. Give other ideas a shot, give struggling writers who can write a chance. As far as those who think Angel and Buffy and their ilk are the greatest things to hit television. An obvious FUCK YOU is at hand. However seeing as I hate to resort to acting like the typical poster, I will reason as an adult and end my discussion when I feel I am ready. PS: Honestly how many people really think SMG is talented at all?!

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 5:36 p.m. CST

    All good things...

    by MightyyMouse

    I'm going to do something that's apparently strange here, and not waste my time with attention seekers. Instead, I'm going to put the question out there, that I'm surprised hasn't been much more extensively discussed here. How would everyone like to see this end? I mean, we all know Joss will do whatever he wants to do, and apparently he has said he is going ahead with his original ending, but in the spirit of good old geeky speculation, how would everyone like to see this end? Or how does everyone think its going to end, since the two are really separate questions?

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 5:37 p.m. CST

    Looking to the future

    by A_Evenstar

    As much as it breaks my heart to see Angel go, I know that the genius of Joss Whedon will continue. Hopefully, Firefly will get the notice it so richly deserved when Joss makes the movie. After watching the series again on DVD, and seeing the unaired episodes I realized yet again, what a shame it was that is was cancelled so early on. The show had such a great premise, and did anyone ever notice that it was one of the few sci-fi shows without any aliens? Actually, I can

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 5:45 p.m. CST

    West Wing Groundbreaking?

    by alienmofo

    I don't think so. Let's see what was the formula: tons of snappy patter, big ensemble cast, little humor, little drama, relationship issues(y'know, real world stuff), mix it all together and what you have? It was called SPORTS NIGHT. Guess what? It was 10 times better than West Wing, but it didn't take. For some reason, same formula, same writer, different setting, different network and it was successful. But don't tell me the second try was groundbreaking. As far as Angel and Buffy go, you don't like it, whatever. MILLIONS of people disagree with you. Go post somewhere else choggle and quit wasting our time.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 5:46 p.m. CST

    This Idiot Is Still Here?

    by Real Deal

    Choggel head you realize you're just proving my point?

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 6 p.m. CST

    Sorry to see this end.

    by mrfan

    But at least we have had a great run. Every episode was not perfect. True. But it is and will be better than some of that other dribble out there. Yes, I can take pot shots. But I won't. Heck, it is only common sense that most sci-fi shows only last for five to seven years. They are expensive to produce. And it is hard to do especially with a network that can not air their shows all over. I wish the cast and crew of Angel my best. And thanks for some of the best entertainment for the last five.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 6:01 p.m. CST

    OMG they killed Angel! You BASTARDS!

    by KingOfCrows

    I found out about Angels cancellation Saturday morning and now it's Sunday evening as I write this... It's amazing how much this has bothered me and how often this rotten news has come into mind since I found out. It is only a television show, but I have come to love the characters on Angel so much, I'm really going to miss them. I haven't felt this upset over a TV show cancellation in a long, long time. Thank god for DVD releases.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 6:07 p.m. CST

    Realistic Chances of Survival

    by KingOfCrows

    Do you think there is any real chance that a petition can save Angel? Or that another network will pick up Angel. How often has this really ever happened? A few times, but very few. I'm not a pessimist, but a realist. And I think we better get used to the idea that the series is dead for good.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 6:40 p.m. CST

    by ihatescreennames

    Okay, I'm as upset as anyone about the cancellation, but the one gripe I have right now is how everyone is making their complaints and showing their hate in here. Honestly, the only way the WB will ever consider changing its mind is if all fans of Angel make their opinions heard. And no offense to Harry or anyone else but I doubt that the WB execs watch the AintitCoolNews talkback boards. You have to petition them directly. We all hate the fact that they would do this at such an inappropriate time, so why not let them know. While I do have faith in the writers, I dont think even the best writers in the world can entirely wrap up a series like Angel with only 9 episodes left in the season. As it is I'm sure the entire season has already been mapped out, and after overcoming the near cancellation problems of last season and the fresh start of this one, I doubt the wrap up of this one was ever intended to wrap up the entire show. That would mean they'd have to scrap all plans left for this season for however many episodes haven't been shot yet and try and take care of everything in just a handful of episodes. It can't be done. There's too much new going on. Spike incorperated into the show, the possible effects that might have on the Shanshu prophecy, Eve, Lindsey, Wolfram and Hart, Gunn's mind altering, Fred and Wesley...it's just too much. At this point Angel has the potential to be an excellent show that ends its run in a really shitty way. That's the only outcome I can see unless we make our voices heard. WB doesn't care about quality. All they care about are people tuning in so they can make their money. If we show them that we're out there, then maybe they can reconsider. It may be futile but hell it's worth a shot. There are very VERY few shows left on TV that I'll continue to watch every week and Angel is one of them. In fact other than the occasional episode of Smallville, I dont even watch the WB. Maybe they'll actually take notice when we start mentioning that once Angel's gone, we wont be watching the WB anymore.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 6:41 p.m. CST

    Dont talke about it here, Talk to the WB

    by ihatescreennames

    Okay, I'm as upset as anyone about the cancellation, but the one gripe I have right now is how everyone is making their complaints and showing their hate in here. Honestly, the only way the WB will ever consider changing its mind is if all fans of Angel make their opinions heard. And no offense to Harry or anyone else but I doubt that the WB execs watch the AintitCoolNews talkback boards. You have to petition them directly. We all hate the fact that they would do this at such an inappropriate time, so why not let them know. While I do have faith in the writers, I dont think even the best writers in the world can entirely wrap up a series like Angel with only 9 episodes left in the season. As it is I'm sure the entire season has already been mapped out, and after overcoming the near cancellation problems of last season and the fresh start of this one, I doubt the wrap up of this one was ever intended to wrap up the entire show. That would mean they'd have to scrap all plans left for this season for however many episodes haven't been shot yet and try and take care of everything in just a handful of episodes. It can't be done. There's too much new going on. Spike incorperated into the show, the possible effects that might have on the Shanshu prophecy, Eve, Lindsey, Wolfram and Hart, Gunn's mind altering, Fred and Wesley...it's just too much. At this point Angel has the potential to be an excellent show that ends its run in a really shitty way. That's the only outcome I can see unless we make our voices heard. WB doesn't care about quality. All they care about are people tuning in so they can make their money. If we show them that we're out there, then maybe they can reconsider. It may be futile but hell it's worth a shot. There are very VERY few shows left on TV that I'll continue to watch every week and Angel is one of them. In fact other than the occasional episode of Smallville, I dont even watch the WB. Maybe they'll actually take notice when we start mentioning that once Angel's gone, we wont be watching the WB anymore.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 6:41 p.m. CST

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by Kingmidget

    It's depressing and sad to read this news. Angel over the last few years has become my favorite show. As much as I loved Buffy I thought Angel often surpassed it in recent seasons and I anticipated watching it more. The potential for movies and spinoffs does nothing to ease the pain, first because I doubt they'll happen, and secondly because they won't fill the weekly void come next fall. Angel had some of the best writing on television. It was always interesting and always intelligent, unlike some of the fantasy shows it often was lumped in with (Charmed). It was also very clever and deftly managed to balance drama and comedy. Lastly it had some of the best developed characters on television. Angel went from being Ken to Buffy's Barbie to becoming a grand epic hero with a great destiny laid before him. Cordelia and Wesley grew beyond the cartoonish two-dimensional characters on Buffy to become depth filled characters we cared for. Now I'll miss them all greatly. I guess I should be grateful that the WB has given the show the time to wrap up the series the way it deserves, but I'll hold out hope that they'll change their minds or that another network like Fox UPN or HBO realizes that this is a show that deserves to continue.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Sorry about the double post

    by ihatescreennames

    Didn't meant to post the same thing twice. I forgot the heading the first time. Sorry about that. I've actually never posted before.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 6:48 p.m. CST

    NewYorkKid, you must be as thick as quick-sand, and your Spike o

    by Nirvanapunk

    First, if you want to get into actual facts and not your nothings that you add (I find it funny that you accused certain others of having nothing to add when what YOU said was complete bull and the other stuff was true), Whedon had planned to have Spike over in some form by the start of Buffy's 7th season (as spoken in a convo between he and Marsters). A runner at the WB (perhpas Levin) talked about the conversation he had with Joss about it. It was JOSS'S idea!!! It was only after it was announced that CC wasn't returning as a regualr that JM was listed as a regular. And yes, MANY fans, some Buffy, some Angel, DID want him on, hence those BIG, BIG campaigns. JM is a fine actor, I think, as is Denisof (two of the best, to me. And the day Marsters has to take acting notes from Boreanaz is the day Earth implodes.) And how important you must think yourself to: 1) Call out fans for not comming over in groups (in saying "I knew Spike pansty ass fans [what about two of them] would have nothhing useful to add!") and defending their stance ESPECIALY when all you have to say are halfassed murmers in between stroking your hate-on for Spike or JM (you have heard his music, now? I'll hand you a gun and you'll be Mark David Chapman!) that is limted to "I hate him!!! Wahhhhhh!" 2) Telling people to "feel free" to have their own perspective on the JW quote from the Bronze (as if people are worriedly saying "oh, is NewYork Kid going to give me the freedom to have my own opinions?"). In his quote, he mentions how he isn't one for mainstream tv...THEN he says (from some poem) he took the raod less traveled. I put 2 and 2 together...but thank for letting me "feel free" to.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 6:56 p.m. CST

    Why the hate?

    by mmmspike

    Mr. Chogglepants, why do you keep posting on this talkback? You've already made it obvious that you think: A) Angel was a dumbass show and completely uncreative, B) Anyone that liked Angel enough to mourn its cancellation is an even bigger dumbass; probably a forty year old pasty white virgin that still lives at home, and C) The shows you watch are better to the nth degree. You've made all of this painfully clear with your first fifteen posts. Got it. Point made. So can't you show a little courtesy and let grieving fans be? Sure, Angel isn't everyones cup of tea, but there's no reason to come on to mock us fanboys (and girls); if your theories hold true, then we're all huge losers that are probably going to off ourselves in some mass ritualistic drinking of poisoned Flavor Aide once the last episode of Angel airs -- so why would we need you to point out our patheticness, so that even more crap is shoveled onto our pitiful lives? Just saying... you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion, but there's really no need to come to this talkback and share it in such a caustic way. Thanks for listening; I'll leave you to your hate mongering now.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 7:05 p.m. CST

    mmmspike... It's a Troll

    by KingOfCrows

    mmmspike, it's called a troll. Some people will continue to post negative posts just to get everyone up in arms. Ignore them, take away their fun, nd they slip way.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 7:18 p.m. CST

    Emmy awards

    by kidfresh512

    Oh please West Wing is great because it won Emmys? Grammys, Emmys, Oscars are so not the defenition of greatness. It just means that the campaigns the shows and companys ran to get the nominations and win worked. Hell most of tv is reality shows now anyway. The real dramas and sitcoms have much higher chances at those awards because My obnoxious fiancee and shit like that isnt gonna get nominated

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 7:22 p.m. CST

    get over yourself

    by kidfresh512

    Choggle can you contemplate getting over yourself? "The light of truth?". Please. You have made your point and I agree that tv is a business not a charity. What you fail to understand is your opinion is not any more important or relevant than anyone elses. If you think they shows sucked then good for you I certainly could care less. But, why continue posting and being an ass when you made your point. We get it tv is a business and you dont like Buffy/Angel ok nothing new?

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 8:03 p.m. CST

    choggle be's funny

    by Bouncy X

    Choggle child is accusing you all of putting them down for having an opinion contrary to their own....how funny to see this come from the person putting you all down for the same reason..lol Gotta love the hypocrites, they make us laugh. :)

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 8:34 p.m. CST

    The death of original TV

    by purplepenguin

    I fear for the way that TV seems to be going. It seems that it is filling the air waves with "Reality TV" that is an oxymoron if I ever heard one! And don't forget the recycled dramas and sitcomes! If you look at the show that are truely good they have some idea that sets them apart. I mean erally there are only a few story ideas out there you just have to find an original way of showing them. And that is what Joss did. He took a supernatural universe and instead of making it all about the magic and demons, he made it about he people that these unusual events happen to. I will always remember the Buffy episode after Buffy's mother died. The way that it was handled reminded me of how I felt after my mother died, they even made her die of natural causes. The fact that it didn't win some kind of award just shows to me that most award organizations are more about brainwashing the public into likeing what they like then really honoring what deserves to be honored. Even people who don't care for Buffy have a hard time keeping a dry eye after watching that masterful bit of story telling. Now just as Angel's popularity is starting to grow, it gets the axe, and the viod will probably be filled with another "Reality" show or (god forbid) another "Birds of Prey"! The WB seems to be making 10 bad choices for every good one.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 9:35 p.m. CST

    What petitions CAN do

    by jtp972

    There is probably nothing that will get the WB to change its mind. But signing petitions isn't about getting the WB to reconsider. What the petitions can do is help in the event ME shops the show to other networks, or tries to shop another spin-off. Don't know if Whedon and company will go either route. But to those who say its a lost cause to use petitions to change the mind of the WB...that's not the point. The point is to make sure other networks are hearing positive voices if and when they consider picking up "Angel" or another spin-off that might come about. "Tru Calling" will likely get cancelled. And apparently UPN was interested in a "Faith" spin-off. Whether Dushku would do it...who knows. But it can't hurt to have voices making their interest known. I'm saying there are steps that can be taken to ensure that other networks know there is a fan base the WB is letting go. "Angel" is done on the WB after May. That's not going to change...and good riddance. I don't think they ever appreciated what they had with either show, anyway. But "Angel" may not be over for good, and even more possible...the Buffyverse may not be over. And, at the very least, even if it is all over...there is something to be said for making your voice heard. That's what a free society is about. I think TV has gotten to the bad point it has b/c people just sit back and take what the networks give them. "Angel" is going away and we don't like it. If nothing else, the petitions allow us to say that. And there's not a damn thing wrong with that as the final and only purpose of petitions.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 9:39 p.m. CST

    Choggle_Pants

    by dankato

    At the beginning of this talkback you made a valid point about TV not being a charity. However, spending so much time telling people how bad one of their favorite shows is smacks of the pot and the kettle. You say that a show about vampires has to be horrible. If you take a show and describe it as just being about the occupations of their principle characters, then any show can be made to sound like mindless drivel. A show about morticians. Yuck, who's gonna watch that?! A show about mobsters. Ugh, as if that hasn't been done to death in the movies! A show about the President. Oooh, how original. So Angel, wasn't your cup of tea. Got it. Point made. Now you go outside and partake in all of the activities you say you do, instead of sitting in front of the computer hoping that you've pissed off someone. Oh and BTW, your future posts will not be acknowledged by me. So feel free to write back ad nauseum.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 9:42 p.m. CST

    Choggle_Pants

    by dankato

    At the beginning of this talkback you made a valid point about TV not being a charity. However, spending so much time telling people how bad one of their favorite shows is smacks of the pot and the kettle. You say that a show about vampires has to be horrible. If you take a show and describe it as just being about the occupations of their principle characters, then any show can be made to sound like mindless drivel. A show about morticians. Yuck, who's gonna watch that?! A show about mobsters. Ugh, as if that hasn't been done to death in the movies! A show about the President. Oooh, how original. So Angel, wasn't your cup of tea. Got it. Point made. Now you go outside and partake in all of the activities you say you do, instead of sitting in front of the computer hoping that you've pissed off someone. Oh and BTW, your future posts will not be acknowledged by me. So feel free to write back ad nauseum.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 9:45 p.m. CST

    Choggle_Pants

    by dankato

    At the beginning of this talkback you made a valid point about TV not being a charity. However, spending so much time telling people how bad one of their favorite shows is smacks of the pot and the kettle. You say that a show about vampires has to be horrible. If you take a show and describe it as just being about the occupations of their principle characters, then any show can be made to sound like mindless drivel. A show about morticians. Yuck, who's gonna watch that?! A show about mobsters. Ugh, as if that hasn't been done to death in the movies! A show about the President. Oooh, how original. So Angel, wasn't your cup of tea. Got it. Point made. Now you go outside and partake in all of the activities you say you do, instead of sitting in front of the computer hoping that you've pissed off someone. Oh and BTW, your future posts will not be acknowledged by me. So feel free to write back ad nauseum.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 10:26 p.m. CST

    i could cry

    by adaline

    i grew up watching the buffyverse...and now it's completely gone. lets hope it goes out with a bang...lets hope SMG shows some human emotion and gives one back to the fans.

  • Feb. 16, 2004, midnight CST

    actually Chogglepants

    by fastpilot

    What a great intellectual vacuum you are! How marvelous, the effort you put into trolling. And you have no real clue about either human nature or free market economies. The people who run networks and cancel shows are as likely to make mistakes and make decision for emotional reasons and fads as any other group of people who are experts their field--the current glut of unreality shows looming large in my mind as I type this. And what really happens when people begin to commonly use effective anti-advertising technology is that television will be paid for under a new business model, I say unto you who are a painful foul smelling discharge upon the net. Even as things stand, you are quite wrong to say that these people want something for nothing, they paid for this show with their time. That you think they want something for nothing shows how ignorant you are of the REAL economy. The central banks will print money until we need a wheelbarrow to buy a coffee, but we all have an unknown and finite amount of time. It would indeed be a good thing for fans of the show to have an escrow account set up towards offsetting the cost of the show. If it's continuation was at all marginal, then the sum of money even a small fraction of the fans could raise might well make it a going proposition again. The first person to successfully use a new business model generally gets their own license to print money. That Angel entertained millions for this many seasons shows far better than your peurile efforts to detract that it was excellent television; head and shoulders above the rest. The "vampire" show is not merely not played out, it is as infinite as humanity, and we'll never get tired of making up stories for each other...although I can't imagine anyone being entertained for long by you. I think the comment that you are a pathetic waste of skin for spending so much time at ranting without understanding anything that the fans of this show are idiot for liking it is spot on. While I do mean what I say when i write that you are incapable in your current on-line persona of entertaining many people for long, I have to admit you have brought a smile to my face every so often in this thread--only I am sure not for the reasons you purport. ^Yours, fastpilot

  • Feb. 16, 2004, 12:51 a.m. CST

    question...

    by Speedstream

    Why is anyone even acknowledging chogglefuckers or the scottish-drunks presence here. Just scan past them...and once they realized that no cares if they are here or not...they'll go away...later days

  • Feb. 16, 2004, 4:32 a.m. CST

    Angel

    by differentangel

    Well Josh brought writers over from Buffy (who sunk that show)and puts them on Angel. Then he gets rid of some of the writers for Angel who helped get a 5th season. I saw this coming last year. Plus I saw some of the writers at the Comic Con and one lady who was the M.C. was just rude to the fans. She would ask her questions to the writers first and told the fans, when they tried asked about thier questions, that they would have to wait until she is done. Know I will wait for the horrible ending that they did for Buffys last show. Killing Cordela is just another list of mistakes Josh has done and another topic. {later I tell you how I really feel}

  • Feb. 16, 2004, 5:22 a.m. CST

    Will Miss the Show

    by quasar no. 1

    Think the show was well crafted. Will miss it. Corporate choices be damned. Those in power don't always do the right thing. By the way... think choggle pants must be a WB exec....

  • Feb. 16, 2004, 5:24 a.m. CST

    Petitioning has saved shows before.

    by mrfan

    Please get your facts together Chuggles before typing an illogical response. Yes, I do feel it will not work in this case.Too many expenses to worry about. But petitioning has worked for saving shows. Get the facts straight. Thank you and have a good day.

  • Feb. 16, 2004, 11:13 p.m. CST

    Choggle brand 'Reality' -- now, with 95% more bullshit!

    by mmmspike

    Choggle -- having an opposing viewpoint is one thing, but being a jerk about it is another. I'm sure there's millions of people that think Angel's a crap show and are glad that it's been cancelled ... however, I don't see them coming on the talkback to gloat about it. If West Wing were to get cancelled (I know, it sounds impossible, considering all of the Emmys that it has won), and you were upset about it, would you like someone to come and make numerous celebratory posts? There's a difference between stating your view and practically masturbating in self-satisfaction over it (and sharing that masturbation with the board, no less!) There really is no reason to come and post on this board other than sheer mean spiritedness. Yes, I know you claim that you're trying to "inject a little reality" on us pathetic Angel fans, but that's just an excuse to spout your bile. You're not on some debate team here; you're not going to convince *anyone* that's mourning here that it's a good thing that Angel was cancelled. And you damn well know it. So, please, if you're going to post your anti-Angel stuff here, at least acknowledge the fact that it's only for your own benefit.

  • Feb. 17, 2004, 9:26 p.m. CST

    HARRY, GET A REAL SERVER!

    by DefyThis

    Christ what are you running on, a 14.4? Herc, please beat Harry over the head with the 486 hosting this site until he gets a REAL link. I had a nice long rant all typed out only to be lost in the abyss along with Angel, Family Guy, and most of our lunches at viewing Harry's sicko flash animations throughout the years.

  • Feb. 22, 2004, 10:21 p.m. CST

    Angel's untimely demise

    by 1popculturediva

    I sincerely hope that SMG and Joss work something out for this season, because Angel and Buffy most certainly need some work. Despite Angel's misguided affection for Cordelia, even though she did become much more Angel worthy at the end, I will find a final season without some kind of Buffy/Angel action very distasteful and somewhat of a slap in the face as I am sure most fans will as well.