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First Review of a Test Screening of TROY - Sounds Utterly Fantastic!

Hey folks, Harry here... well here we go, one of the biggies... Seems Warner Brothers actually did a test screening of TROY on Thursday night, and it sounds like... at this stage, it is a helluva movie. Sounds very hard R. Will Warners and Robinov have the backbone to let Wolfgang keep the film at this level, or will they sanitize it, sandblast it and generally make the film limp and flaccid? Let us hope something close to what Bonk of 37 here saw is what we get this May. Let's hope that others at the screening felt the same way and maybe Warners will actually give us a great film this Summer!!! Here's hoping!

TROY review  

Hey Harry, the Bonk of 37 here with a review of the first screened cut of TROY, the new Wolfgang Peterson film scheduled for release on May 14. The long and short of it before I get down to the meat and potatoes is that the Warner execs were aiming for PG-13 Gladiator, and in the end they made a heck of a good movie. I really really liked it.  

The cut they showed was said to be the very first shown to audiences. The special effects weren't finished, and the music was from Starship Troopers and Pearl Harbor. This cut was three hours long, but what will be released will more than likely be 2h15 to 2h30 minutes long. Three Warner execs and Wolfgang Peterson were there, so that made it even cooler.  

Here's the story, so there are some minor spoilers ahead, but to anyone familiar with Homer's The Iliad, this is nothing new. On the verge of peace, Hector and Paris of Troy (Eric Bana from Hulk and Orlando Bloom a.k.a. Legolas) celebrate with new friend the King of Sparta (Brendan Gleeson from Lake Placid, Cold Mountain, etc.). Paris is a stupid little pretty boy who decides to sleep with and steal away the Spartan King's wife, Helen (the very yummy and super duper delicious hottie Diane Kruger), and return to Troy with Helen as his tasty treat of a girlfriend. Naturally, jealousy and hatred ensue.  

Well, mostly all-out pissed rage and bloody, violent combat than jealousy and hatred. The King of Spartan's brother is conqueror Agmemnon (brutish and commanding Brian Cox, great as ever), who has "united" the kingdoms and armies of Greece through diplomacy and battles. He has always wanted Troy to fall under his power, so he has his best warrior Achilles (Brad Pitt) and all his armies sent to Troy to take back Helen and rule Troy by force.  

My initial reaction to Troy was much like how I reacted to The House of Sand and Fog. Both sides are portrayed fully, the "good" side of Troy and the "bad" side of Sparta, so that neither truly seems like the good or bad guys, or the "right" or "true" victors. Both sides are right and both are wrong, but in turn it makes it difficult to root for or against any particular character, with few exceptions. First, Eric Bana. Don't let the advertising fool you, this is his movie. His character of Hector is a great man, brave and scared, strong willed and determined but realistic, the most realized and well written character. He is known now, but this movie will make him a star. Second is Brian Cox. Boy, what an asshole of a character. A scenery-chewing, screaming tyrant. And he looks good with long hair, surprisingly.  

The third is Achilles. Brad Pitt is not necessarily the main character of the movie. He is in it as much as the others, and has a less developed character. He is Darth Maul with a conscious, a super badass with tunnel vision. He has one scene of wisdom, one of fucking, one of emotion, and the rest is all badass super fighting. But when he fights, he kicks some serious ass. Whew! Imagine Neo not fighting like a pussy in Matrix Reloaded and actually using a sword to stab people and you have an idea. And the coolest part? Very little reliance on computer effects and editing that doesn't give you a headache. His fights are  wonderfully choreographed and incredibly fast. To reiterate: He kicks serious ass. That boy can fight.  

Speaking of fighting...remember how Warner said they wanted PG-13? Well, there is no way in hell this movie is PG-13, with all of the spurting blood, staffs through the head, stabbings, hangings, and all around bloody fighting, not to mention the pubic revelations of both Pitt and Orlando Bloom and the sweet, sweet, amazingly scrumptious, yummy yummy yummy tits and ass of Diane damn! That girl looks good naked! Anyway, there will be some major trimming if they don't expect the R rating.  

Oh, and about Legolas...yeah, he is entirely pointless. Ignore the third billing. Aside from setting the story in motion in the beginning, Bloom is hardly in the movie. He serves no purpose. He is set dressing at the least and a plot devise at the best. Twice in the film his actions set up the storyline for the other characters but leave him with nothing to do. It is a thankless role. In fact, his character and relationship with the the other characters in the film is its biggest fault. Hopefully they'll trim a bit of him from the movie. Him, and the whiny little brat who plays Achilles' cousin and essentially creates the reason Achilles fights the Trojans. You know how it works, the same thing that's been done to death before: younger character idolizes older stronger character, picks a fight, comes back dead, and viola! Motivation and emotional response for the lead character.)  

Despite the sweet Helen of Troy tit shot and heavy violence, it's the subtlety in Eric Bana's performance and the quiet moments of Achilles in thought or talking with the royal priestess that make the movie that much more enjoyable. These types of moments keep the movie from entering the pool of recent military movies that substitute battles in place of storyline, a la Black Hawk Down, Tears of the Sun, or We Were Soldiers.  

Last but not least, Peter O'Toole still rules. The look on his face when he sees the size of the Spartan army marching on Troy...classic. Truly classic.  

Overall, a damn good movie. I can't wait to see it with finished effects and music that fits better. And here's to hoping those brutal fight scenes and sweet ass titties stay in the picture. :-)  

Call me Bonk of 37.

Readers Talkback
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  • Feb. 13, 2004, 3:29 a.m. CST


    by HOB

    This movie might just kick ass.

  • Trojan Man, BROTHER!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 3:31 a.m. CST

    Please please please

    by Stormin

    Please all of you studio execs, don't fuck this one up. R stands for Right way of releasing movies like this.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 3:34 a.m. CST

    This film...

    by Effigy2002

    ....will be one to see, and remembered as one of 2004's best (along with Big Fish, which ruled). And also, first!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 3:36 a.m. CST

    Pubic Revelations of Pitt & Bloom?

    by Wesley Snipes

    So they do the full monty in this?

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 3:37 a.m. CST


    by Sledgeh101

    You people after me are such losers (actually, those who sit around waiting to be first and post JUST "First!" are the losers in my mind)

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 3:56 a.m. CST

    Sounds like a damn good movie.

    by Psyclops

    What's the point of trimming this down to a PG-13? So more preteen girls can oggle Orlando Bloom and give Warner Bros. some extra change? Fuck that. Release these films for adults!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 4:30 a.m. CST

    Liam Neeson as Ra's Al Ghul

    by willscarlet

    Off topic I know, but check out for another piece of fine batman casting

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 4:34 a.m. CST

    Well, there's some good news. :)

    by raw_bean

    I was looking forward to this before, glad to hear that there's every chance it'll be a really good film. One problem with this review, no mention of my man Sean Bean! What's his role, and how much are does he kick?

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 4:45 a.m. CST

    I was *so* worried about this movie...

    by Swithin

    Seriously. The Iliad and the Odyssey are the two works I feel will each have *just one* definitive version come out sometime this century, and will be the biggest movies to date... and I still feel that the world isn't quite ready to make those definitive versions. I loved all the casting tidbits along the way, the CGI ships of the first teaser threw me off a bit, so I was optimistic but uneasy about "Troy" (just fucking call it The Iliad!)... this report is pretty much exactly what I wanted to hear. Can't wait til May to see what's been done to water it down...

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 4:49 a.m. CST

    Been saying this for quite some time: ERIC BANA KICKS ASS

    by jigga422

    I loved him in the hulk. I adored him in Chopper. His performance in Black Hawk down stood out from the rest of the cast. Hell, I even loved him on channel 7 when he was doing the eric bana show. he just plain kicked as in Full frontal (no one could look at ray martins hair piece in the same way after eric finished harpooning him) The guys a legend and he's a down to earth fella too. I wish him him the best and I really hope troy makes him a star just like Gladiator made russel crowe one. (also just incase some of u americans dont know what I was talking about, The eric bana show and full frontal were on australian tv)

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 4:54 a.m. CST

    You know how it works, the same thing that's been done to death

    by Captain Dobie

    Actually that sounds very original, the use of obscure violin variants in films is much misunderstood.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 5:05 a.m. CST

    This PG-13 stuff will kill this movie...

    by stackpointer

    ...but let's pray it won't. LOTR? What is that? He-he...

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 5:10 a.m. CST

    Brad Pitt is still a fag!

    by mbaker

    So fuck him up his stupid ass!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 5:15 a.m. CST

    "Trial" of Paris

    by Stumanji

    It's been a while since I've studied this stuff, but doesn't Paris trigger the war by picking Helen over one of the Gods in a "beauty contest" of sorts?

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 5:24 a.m. CST

    Another Paris sex romp?

    by Shad0wfax


  • Feb. 13, 2004, 5:39 a.m. CST


    by Darth Phallus

    Seriously, I saw the preview for this and the "Where's Waldo" CGI zoom out shot of the oncoming navy armada looked pretty video game-esque (maybe it was the near perfect symmetry of distance between the ships _ I mean c'mon could they really keep that tight and neat a formation with that many ships that close together and sail for that way for any appreciable distance? Now of course the second question is does Brad's Achilles get it in the back of the foot and die or will they "Hollywood-ize" it. It's also nice to hear there'll be some T&A in the movie, not enough of that these days... I'm there.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 6:25 a.m. CST

    Brad Pitt is this generations Tom Cruise

    by Bcphil

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 6:46 a.m. CST


    by Conan_the_Humble

    looking forward to this movie, that "trailer" with all the ships on their way to Troy sends a chill down my spine... Cheers.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 7:17 a.m. CST

    What about Sean Bean?

    by DannyOcean01

    Isn't he playing Odysseus? No mention of him at all. Me thinks a plant j/k

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 7:49 a.m. CST

    You know all those plot devices you've seen a thousand times?

    by FrankCobretti

    The Iliad did them first. In the book, Paris is a pussy who starts the whole thing and pisses everyone, including the Trojans, off. That, and the other characterizations, sound like what I remember reading back in college. I don't remember Agamemnon so much as a screaming asshole than I do Achilles as a spoiled athlete but, from what I'm reading here, Troy is doing justice to a great story. Question: are they ignoring Achilles' malleable sexuality and making him strictly hetero?

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 7:49 a.m. CST


    by Phimseto

    Gladiator being "R" did not do anything to hurt its box office, and I doubt many would disagree if I said its visceral nature was a large part of that film's enduring appeal.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 8:01 a.m. CST

    for Stumanji: reason for the war on Troy

    by no-no

    Paris had to judge a beauty contest between Hera, Athena and Aphrodite(the apple of discord). He choose Aphrodite who told him he could have the most beautiful woman: Helene of Toy. On top of that, Hera and Athena not happy about the result of the contest help in starting the war...

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 8:08 a.m. CST

    PG-13 bullshit

    by godoffireinhell

    The script was for an hard R rated film, obviously Petersen has shot a hard R rated film. Where does this PG-13 nonesense come from? Is this really something someone has officially said? Because if Warners wanted PG-13 they'd have thrown a fit and fired Petersen when they saw the first dailies, not gone on to let him assemble a hard R test screening cut ...

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 8:33 a.m. CST

    Troy trailer

    by Northerner82

    Is the background music from another movie, or is the actual score? sounds familiar and its irritating me

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 8:38 a.m. CST

    Hollywood's mythology

    by CurryIce

    1. This movie will be chopped anyway 'cause the studio wants to earn fucking money in making the movie accessable to a wide audince incl. kiddies...That SUCKS! 2. Eric Bana rulez. 3. I don't know the historical background but after seeing the trailer it just looks unbelievable that such a big armada of warships ever moved on the sea in that time...

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 8:50 a.m. CST

    This historical background is...

    by MichaelSean

    ...that there is none. It's a greek tragedy written by Homer, a myth, not history. I swear, what they're not teaching in public schools these days frightens me.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 8:55 a.m. CST


    by Recognizer

    Two Patroclus points: 1) the "younger guy idolizes hero, goes off to fight, gets killed and plays the viola" was not as trite when this book was written LIKE TWO AND A HALF THOUSAND YEARS AGO. 2) Patroclus was not Achilles' cousin so much as his friend, sidekick, and lover. Either this script is a long way from its source, or we have some weird-ass incest going on. (They're probably cutting out the whole "Ancient Greek nobility were generally bisexual" facts from the movie, which fits if they want to make a Modern American Blockbuster which will sell to the Christian Right, after we've all seen "Passion of Christ".) Oh, and it's FUCKING AWESOME that Sean Bean is Odysseus. First of all, 'cause Joyce's "Ulysses" is an Irish epic, and second, 'cause Boromir was an awesome role but it only hinted at Bean's vast ability to play a flawed hero.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 8:57 a.m. CST

    mea culpa

    by Recognizer

    I should probably correct myself... it's based on a poem, not necessarily a book per se. Also, clearly it's heavily modified, since apparently NO GREEK GODS appear in the thing, though they're basically the whole motivating force of the poem itself. Hence, "Troy", not "Iliad".

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:03 a.m. CST

    On the History of Troy

    by FrankCobretti

    Haven't they identified the site and done some excavations? I'm not implying that The Iliad is a history as we currently understand the word, but it does seem reasonable to accept that a major battle, possibly one that led to the downfall of the city, did occur there.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:07 a.m. CST

    facts v fiction

    by Wyrdy the Gerbil

    whats strange about most Greek myths is that though we cant prove any of the details of the stories,when you check the physical evidence fleece,Troys destruction,etc you find they really existed and a lot of historians will concede that though the ancient Greeks embelished their stories with fantastic elements at the core of them there is a strong grain of truth especially from the "heroic area"

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:14 a.m. CST

    a few points:

    by ElRoboticoDiablo

    1) to those who complain re: the number of ships, I will leave it to my man Marlowe:"was this the face that launched a thousand ships, and burt the topless towers of Illium?" he's talking about Helen, and the 1000 ships goes back to the Illiad. No it's not historically accurate, any more than the sword in the stone, or noah's ark. The Illiad is Myth. perhaps based on some core historical event, but greatly fictionalized from there. 2) speaking of "A Thousand Ships", it's a great ongoing comic title by Eric Showalter telling this tale. Read the Illiad first if you haven't but the comic is a good read for fans of the original. Also Shakespeare's Troilus and Cressida a deconstructionist, anti-war take, is a great read. 3) if Achilles is totally hetero, it's not gonna work 4) I have high hopes, and am really looking forward to this movie.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:27 a.m. CST

    Darth_Phallus, myname is nobody, and anyone else still harping o

    by raw_bean

    The first three that you see are, then your mind expects all the rest of them to be, too. The first couple of times I saw it, I saw the ships being evenly spaced, and thought it looked rubbish. If you watch it again, and pause it after there are quite a few ships in view, you'll imediately see the ships are randomly clumped or spread out all over the place, and you'll wonder how you didn't notice it before. Try it, seriously, you'll totally change your mind about that shot, or I'll eat my hat. Not that I have a hat. ----- Secondly, go Sean Bean! I may have to personally go see this film a few hundred thousand times just to up the likelihood of studio interest in a sequel, so that we can have a Sean Bean lead Oddysey!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:38 a.m. CST

    For the record

    by FrankCobretti

    Derek Jacobi's reading of the Fagles translation is superb. Wait - that sounded pretentious. Fuck! Shit! There. Now, that's better.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:43 a.m. CST

    I loved my Greek Mythology class in college so I am geeked to se

    by Lost Skeleton

    Here is hoping they stick to Wolfgang's vison and keep this sucker at R. I will hate to wait for a Director's cut on DiViD in order to enjoy some of the action described. Oh well, lets go Summer 2004. "2" 7/4/04

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:44 a.m. CST


    by CuervoJones

    Helen shows her tits, i saw them on a sculpture. What a shame!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:45 a.m. CST

    This generations Tom Cruise?

    by REDD

    "Brad Pitt is this generations Tom Cruise". WTF? They're almost the same age, Tom is one year older. LOL.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:47 a.m. CST

    NEW RULE: PG-13 is a rating for pussies. Either go kid-friendly

    by Bill Maher

    This reads like a real review and not a plant. For example, he erroneously uses the word "conscious" instead of "conscience". However, the grammar, writing skills, spelling and punctuation of PR-types gets worse and worse, so you can never tell. The thing that proves this guy is for real (or that PR-pimps are finally catching on) in the fact that he mention's Diane Kruger's tits and ass - a clever move studio plants are too fucking stupid and/ or two-faced to perform. By the way, the "cliche" about Achilles' friend getting killed is in the Iliad. I wonder if they left in the fact that Patroclus was the altar boy and Achilles the priest -if you know what I mean and I think you do.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:48 a.m. CST

    I'm sorry but when it comes to serious ass kicking..

    by JAGUART

    I kinda envisioned this as a Damon-Affleck vehicle. You know, with both of them being manly action heroes and all.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:55 a.m. CST

    A hard " R " Warners only want soft and fluffy!!!!

    by 5secondfuse

    Troy is the type of film that should always have been an R rated picture. We want all the brutal fight scenes and fucking claret spraying everywhere and if those braindead talentless warner execs think otherwise then there more fucking useless than we believe they are now. It was obvious even from the teaser that Bana is totally gonna steal the movie from pretty boy Pitt. I wouldn't saddle Pitt with being this generations Tom Cruise, Cruise is on another level of talentless egomania.....a man whose movie posters are all the same, despite the movie he's in. A big sickening mug shot of his face and his name in letters is actually bigger than the movies. Tom Cruise in Tom Cruise.....what a tit. At least Brad has Seven and Fight club. As for Legolass Bloom, learn how to act u turd....

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10 a.m. CST

    Brian Cox with long hair...

    by GreedoNeverShot

    He had long hair as Argyle (sp?) in Braveheart, and he looked very cool. i have to at least say tham I'm excited about the casting in this film.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:25 a.m. CST

    Sing, O Muse!

    by Hud

    That "whiny cousin" of Achilles is actually his aide de camp and lover, Patroclus, who joins the battle when the Greeks have been driven from the walls of Troy back to their ships. His death and desecration at Hector's hands awakens an unquenchable lust for murder in Achilles. His fight is not with the Trojans, but with Hector, whom he means not just to kill but to disgrace in battle and in death before all of Troy. The wrath of Achilles has no equal on the field of war and quite possibly in any work of Western literature. I had a hard time picturing Brad Pitt hefting the sevenfold shield, but I hope he pulls it off. And just for the record, Achilles is "off-screen" in the Iliad as well. But his dreadful ire is like a slow-burning fuse that runs throughout the entire epic. When it finally explodes, it is meant to change our judgments and challenge the sympathies we've built throughout the story. I notice also by the review that Peterson seems to have made the story a strictly earthly tale of war. The gods are central to the story in the Iliad. I don't think it's really as good without them.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:29 a.m. CST

    this movie has some of the best casting I've seen in awhile.

    by Bourne GreyElf

    I'm there. oh yeah, and I'm tired of nobody mentioning sean bean. they better not reduce the role of odysseus/ulisys (yes, I mispelled those, kiss my ass) in this movie.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:30 a.m. CST

    no-no: technically, Helen of Sparta

    by Hud

    And even she came to despise Paris for bringing such disgrace on her and hardship on the Trojan people.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:31 a.m. CST

    agamemnon, achilles, paris, patroclus, et al

    by capt jack aubrey

    as several have already pointed out, the whole "younger character idolizes older stronger character, picks a fight, comes back dead, and viola! Motivation and emotional response for the lead character" is, of course, the POINT of the Iliad... and yes, achilles and patroclus were lovers, not cousins --not that the two are mutually exclusive... agamemnon WAS an asshole -- guy sacrificed his youngest daughter just to get the winds blowing again so he could have his war -- he's a raging tyrant, a jerk, and of course it's his picking a fight with achilles at the start that sends achilles into a sulk in his tent for most of the Iliad until Patroclus gets killed... but of course, agamemnon will get his in the tub when he gets home...and yes, paris has always been a sniveling runt, a spoiled pretty boy who lets his little head do the thinking and thus dooms his family and all of Troy (and yes, there was a beauty contest and he picked aphrodite, thus getting Helen, the most beautiful woman in the world, as his reward, and royally pissing off Athena and Hera, who side with the Greeks in the war), and yes, achilles is also a spoiled brat who fights only for his own glory and because he's supernaturally good at it, but of course he has his own dark, tragic curse, since he knows that as much as he loves to fight and wants to be a big hero, if he fights at Troy -- the Super Bowl of Wars -- he'll die (paris, the arrow, the heel, all that)... and yes, there is a lot of historical evidence that there certainly WAS a war or at least ongoing attrition and conflict between Greece (or rather a few city-states) and Troy, most likely over trade routes -- nothing like the Iliad, of course, but enough of a conflict to inspire the poets... i'm curious to see how they work in odysseus and the trojan horse, since it takes place after achilles dies, but if they are willing to kill off Brad three-quarters of the way into the film and have the last fourth deal with Sean Bean building the horse and the tragic, horrific sacking of Troy, then more power to them!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11 a.m. CST

    by ReDWasK

    doesn't paris shoot achilles in the heel to kill him?

  • I am consternated that in such a GAY flick as this one, there is a total absence of gay robots such as UFC-83ILO of the super horny 7567-SE (wich replaced the 7567-SC, as this one went on a self-fellatio rampage that destroyed part of Sky Captain`s sets during the filming!). And thanks to Darth Phallus to point out the problem. By the way, and more seriously, I still wonder what`s with all the hype regarding Orlando Bloom... of course he may be appealing to those ultrafag Hollywood cyborg execs coated with Gucci wear, but the guy simply just can`t play in a natural way... he always has to beef up his acting in such a theatrical fashion that he sounds campy. Well it worked great in LOTR but not all films are like LOTR...

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:08 a.m. CST

    How about a spoiler warning next time, Redwask?

    by Recognizer

    JEEZ! Some of us haven't seen the movie yet! It hasn't even come out! How are we supposed to know about that ending? Whatever you do, DON'T GIVE AWAY THAT ACHILLES KILLS HECTOR! People will kick your ass!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:16 a.m. CST

    Bwahahaha, take THAT stupid people who don't read the essential

    by George Newman

    I am super excited about Brian Cox in the movie!! I fell in love with his work back when he did Manhunter. He was an incredible Hannibal Lecter, and much better than what Hopkins was in Hannibal or Red Dragon (which never should have been remade anyway). His approach to Lecter was so much more realistic and therefore creepier than I felt Hopkins was. And I have gone on a tangent.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:28 a.m. CST

    The Scarecrow

    by George Newman

    Why does IMDB have the scarecrow listed as one of the CASTED characters for Batman: Intimidation?

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:39 a.m. CST

    Why Bother?

    by Pandas

    However good this ends up being, we all know it can never top an earlier adaptation: Star Trek, the Original Series episode "Elaan of Troyius". It was like it was lifted straight off Homer's laptop.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:43 a.m. CST

    Age of Bronze

    by Antboy

    I have to agree about Eric Shanower's Age of Bronze comic. It's excellent and the first collection is out as a TPB. His version only has the gods influence in dreams, portents, and prophecies. I think that's the best way to go. One of the points of the Iliad was that man was under the thumb of the gods and fate and must submit himself to the will of the gods. I don't think that idea would sell in today's world. Now, if you want a modernized version of the Iliad with gods, you should check out Dan Simmons Illium. It takes place in the far future and has a group of "Gods" staging a reenactment of the events of the Iliad. Of course things begin to go awry once Achilles, Hector and the rest find out they're being manipulated by the Gods. I'd be curious to know if Troy shows Achilles death and the fall of Troy - things that happened inbetween the Iliad and Odyssey.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:43 a.m. CST


    by 007-11


  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:46 a.m. CST

    I, too, prefer the Cox Lecter

    by FrankCobretti

    By the way, this is the most interesting talkback ever.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Only for Eric Bana...

    by viola123

    Thanks for the review, but this movie? Eck. It's going to be one huge blunder I think, with only Eric Bana's Hector to pull it through. That's just my prediction, but I could be wrong. Although I hope not. I think this might stop them from making more and more of these epic things that has already seen its peak. I wish Brad Pitt would make a small movie. "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" sounds good, and I hold out my hope for that film, more so than this one. Shallow: Eric Bana totally buffed up for this movie, didn't he? Yow to his arms!!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Is the Kraken in this flick or what?

    by Nice Marmot

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 11:56 a.m. CST


    by ElRoboticoDiablo

    yeah, i like Showalter's Dreams and portents approach as well. really looking forward to the next TPB. is "Illium" which you mentioned a novel? I'd like to track it down.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 12:09 p.m. CST


    by Antboy

    Yeah, it's a novel; it's been out for a year or so. It's only in hardback but I actually found a copy in one of the local libraries. There's a sequel coming out later. I thought it was very good though maybe a little too convoluted to be great. Dan Simmons is best known for Hyperion which won him the Hugo. If you liked his other books you'll like this.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 12:21 p.m. CST

    hey bonehead

    by hector

    "You know how it works, the same thing that's been done to death before: younger character idolizes older stronger character, picks a fight, comes back dead, and viola! Motivation and emotional response for the lead character" Why do you think its been used a million times, because it Homer invented it. Kinda ironic that the story that spawned a million ripoffs gets accused of being played.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 12:23 p.m. CST

    alright talkbackers, calling this a plant does not make you smar

    by perryfarrell

    if it was a plant, it was a really badly designed one. no planter in their right mind would send a review to AICN that says in the first paragraph "a PG-13 gladiator". as soon as many of you read that, you skipped to the bottom of the page, clicked "talk back", and started bitching about the state of movies today and calling people fags. a planter would know this, because you are all quite predictable, and would never say that. and he openly trashes orlando bloom's entire involvement in the movie. before you say it, no, no one would do that to gain credibility for their review if it were actually a plant.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 12:24 p.m. CST

    hey hector

    by perryfarrell

    just because homer's greek doesn't mean he invented it.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 12:26 p.m. CST

    "here with a review of the first screened cut of TROY, the new W

    by ScreamingPenis

    Written like a true press release. Nevertheless, I am looking forward to seeing this.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Gates of Fire

    by FrankCobretti

    If you like Bronze Age war stories, don't miss Gates of Fire. It really puts you in the heart of the phalanx.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Cool Review but....

    by warriorlittle

    I liked the review except for the end where you seemd to put Black Hawk Down in leagues with two crappy films. Black Hawk Down tried to capture what modern warfare is like, and also tried to convey what happened in 1993. Having some stupid subplot to "add" backstory would be pretty stupid.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 12:43 p.m. CST

    AntBoy and Frank:

    by ElRoboticoDiablo

    thanks for the recommendations! I'll have to track those down. either of you ever read Troilus & Cressida? I'm amazed how unknown that play is, considering it's Shakespeare reinterpreting Homer. Great stuff.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 12:49 p.m. CST

    Yeah wtf? He didn't mention Sean Bean at all...

    by Dragonfire

    I hope the reason is that it just slipped his mind, although considering how important Bean's character is he should be memorable. I guess the focus for the iliad is mainly on Hector and Achilles, not Odysseus, but still, Odysseus is pretty important.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 12:51 p.m. CST


    by perryfarrell

    yeah i agree. it was just a no-bullshit this-is-how-it-is war flick. but give this guy a break, that doesn't match up with his Rules For Fine Cinema.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 1:01 p.m. CST

    Gay Sex in TROY?

    by godoffireinhell

    The Old Greeks knew that shapely male butts were made for fucking and I always liked them for that. Sure, the whole man-boy pedo thing is rather disturbing nowadys but that's not the only kind of assfucking they did on a regular basis. The big (hehe) question is will this be a part of or at least hinted at in TROY? I mean, Patroclus and Achilles do the man-love thing in the ILLIAD ... Surely not if the film will be PG-13 because the allmighty MPAA thinks that homosexuality and anal sex are EVIL and NC-17 worthy. Sigh. Well, whatever the case, there will always be Oliver Stone's ALEXANDER to cater to my cravings for megabudget historical gay sex.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Sound like BS

    by AlwaysThere

    Troy is going to suck.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 1:10 p.m. CST

    Troilus & Cressida

    by FrankCobretti

    I haven't yet read that one, & I'm pretty sure I haven't seen it performed, as it isn't in heavy rotation among the local Shakespeare companies. I'll have to give it a look. I think you'll enjoy Gates of Fire, which recounts the Battle of Thermopylae from the perspective of a Spartan officer. The author, Steven Pressfield, really did his homework and manages to tell a good story, to boot. Of course, my opinion's probably colored by the fact that I read the book during a *great* vacation in Hong Kong, but there you have it.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 1:14 p.m. CST

    mmmm.... historical gay sex.......

    by perryfarrell


  • Feb. 13, 2004, 1:29 p.m. CST

    I also loved the way...

    by Shad0wfax

    That if I wanted to purchase, say, any of the movies that the reviewer happened to list (in html with links to amazon) then I could quite easily click and buy them - also contributing money to this site. What a novel idea! Oh yes. [/sarcasm]

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 1:32 p.m. CST


    by perryfarrell

    you don't get out much do you?

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 1:38 p.m. CST

    "The Road Warrior" and "Flesh+Blood"

    by Some Dude

    These two films are the best updated adaptations of "The Iliad." Seriously.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 1:40 p.m. CST


    by Aeglos Istarion

    Will there be anything in it about her? I always thought that the part about her predicting the end and noone believing her was the strongest "plotline" in the Illiad. plus, will there be the bit with Achilles dragging the body of Hector around the city for three days? I hope they show it, because it proves that he is not just a spoiled athlete but a fucking lunatic, too.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 1:51 p.m. CST

    History lesson...

    by Hippo-Eki

    The actual site of Troy was discovered in Turkey in the late 1800s by Heinrich Schliemann. He was also the one who discovered that death mask that was thought to be Agamemnon but actually predates him. Also, Homer probably never actually existed. The Trojan war is believed to have taken place about 500 years before The Iliad was written. "Homer" is most likely a series of people who passed on the story of the Trojan war in sung oral tradition.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 2:04 p.m. CST

    still comparing every fight scene to Matrix Reloaded are we?

    by Anomaly

    Really, how tired is that shit getting?

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 2:30 p.m. CST


    by Creflo A. Dollar

    Is excellent for this one. 'cept for maybe passing over Hulk Hogan as the Greek Priest Laocoon: "I f33r the Greeks, even when the come bearing gifts, brother!"

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 2:33 p.m. CST

    i want to kill hulk hogan

    by perryfarrell

    because of people like you.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 2:55 p.m. CST


    by Phildogger

    I bought one today, and re-potted it and gave it some water. It's pretty cool. and to the guy in this talkback who DELIBERATELY ruined the ending, Fuck you. seriously, Fuck you.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 3:12 p.m. CST

    more spoilers

    by Some Dude

    War starts because Paris gets Helen, Agamemnon's girl. During the war, Achilles takes this hottie captive, Briseis, as a "spear-bride." Anyhow, since Agamemnon's girl is off getting banged by Paris, he decides to take Briseis away from Achilles, so he has someone to bang. This pisses of Achilles so he refuses to fight and sits in his tent with his "buddy" Patroclus. Then a lot of bloody fighting ensues. There are spies sent to scope out the enemies, big duels, and they even set up the sequel with the appearance of Odysseus.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 3:13 p.m. CST

    They should have made "Trojan" instead...

    by Some Dude

    you know, that Capcom game about gladiators who fight in a post-apocalyptic New York. Great music.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 4:13 p.m. CST

    I hope that you guys complaining about giving away the ending of

    by Blue_Demon

    ACHILLES DIES! He gets shot in the heel with an arrow! Where the hell do you think the term "Achilles' heel" comes from? God Almighty. I remember somebody joking about "Titanic" and saying that some fool in line gave away the ending by revealing that the ship sank. Now I'm not so sure it's a joke. P.S. Hector gets killed by Achilles and dragged behind his chariot. hehehehehe.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 5 p.m. CST

    Achillis' "cousin"

    by podunk411

    I like how they slipped in his "cousin" for his lifemate/lover. that just seems weird--and I'm not sure it will work. because really, if your cousin bit the dust, would you take on troy for it? not likely.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 5:01 p.m. CST


    by darthboromir

    I would bet that it will be PG-13. Why? They spent too much money. Gladiator, for all of its success, didn't cross the $200 million mark. And that is what this movie cost. Rated R movies just don't make a ton of money. And honestly, as soon as you add nudity to a movie you cut your audience by a large margin...more people seem to be offended/made uncomfortable by sex scenes than they are offended of violence.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 5:02 p.m. CST

    Hats off to Orlando Bloom

    by FrankCobretti

    If I were in his career shoes, i don't think I'd be willing to play Paris. I'd stick with more heroic figures. Way to take a chance on a good role, pal.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 5:09 p.m. CST

    Schliemann and Agamemnon

    by Penthesilea

    The site of Troy was discovered in the late 1880's as mentioned above. However, Schliemann was not the sole discoverer as he claimed; an english ex-patriot Calvert first dug the site and later was forced to let Schliemann take over the dig when he ran out of money. One small correction: Helen was the wife of Menelaus, Agamemnon's brother. Agamemnon was married to Clytemnestra, Helen's sister. Achilles got huffy because Agamemon took his girl Briseis after Agamemnon was forced to return his slave girl to her father Chryses. If you're interested in a reading the story another good ( and more modern) translation is Lombardo's.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 5:37 p.m. CST

    (singing:) Neverending story... woo-oo-oo-, woo-oo-oo, woo-oo-oo

    by Thing-Fish

    It's a shame the gods aren't in this film... at least that is the sense I get from it. It worked in "Clash of the Titans", which was a great film, despite the fact that it didn't stick close to the mythical story on other points. Anyway, Petersen is a great director and I hope he'll get to the the Odyssey as well, starring Sean Bean.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 6:12 p.m. CST

    I just want to thank all the talk-backers - honestly!

    by Swithin

    I'm very happy to see a talkback with relevent and respectful discussion of the actual article, and on top of that I'm surprised and vindicated that there are readers of this site who are here for more than just posting "first!" The Iliad and the Odyssey should be required reading for everyone, and I'm tweaked that the proportion of readers to non-readers in this thread is so high. First off, someone mentioned that perhaps the reason the title of the movie is "Troy" and not "The Iliad" might have to do with the secularization of the title. I disagree - they mean virtually the same thing, and Troy (or even worse, "The Troy Saga" or the comic sounding "Troy Story") is a somewhat accurate literal translation, as Troy was simply the Latin name for Ilion and was subsequently adopted as the English name (annoying, that, that so much Greek culture and history is passed on to anglophone students by the Roman rip-off names...) My thinking is that the title is supposedly more stark and dramatic (and English) as simply "Troy", so as not to scare away the American audience (please...) The Godlessness of the film, if that's the case, would surely be disturbing, however... someone mentioned Sean Bean perhaps carrying his role over into an Odyssey retelling. I'd say we should wait and see how well he captures the role (NBC's Odyssey a while back was charmingly ridiculous, but Armand Assante got the Odysseus look spot on, and Isabella Rossellini makes a great Pallas Athena,) but how could you ever make the Odyssey without Poseidon, or the cyclops, or Scylla, or Calypso or Circe or Athena, or or or...? Removing all gods and magic from the Iliad could work, but not from the Odyssey!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 6:26 p.m. CST

    Do Paris and Helen get away?

    by fabjax

    Does Menelaus get killed and Paris and Helen escape together? That is what we keep hearing on the Troy discussion board. Say it isn't so!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 7:15 p.m. CST

    cousin my ass...

    by Bunger

    Achillies was a classic ancient Greek boylover, and he didn't get pissed because his young cousin got creamed, he got pissed because his boy lover got creamed. If Brad doesn't open-mouth kiss the kid goodbye and dryhump the corpse when it gets dragged back, it just aint true to the source material. So fuck that. -Bunger!

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 7:17 p.m. CST


    by gil-galad12

    Bring on Troy!!!And I am enthusiastic to see that not too many people here are bitching but actually engaged in conversation. Might this movie top Gladiator? (Gasp)

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 7:20 p.m. CST

    Good point Swithin

    by Thing-Fish

    You are right that the Odyssey without gods would hardly be possible. Which is a surprising revelation, to me at least; in the Iliad, the characters and events are much more determined by the gods, in the Odyssey much less so - one of the reasons why several people believe that the Odyssey is from a much later date. Anyway, I haven't seen the NBC version of the Odyssey, but I think Sean Bean will be good for the role of Odysseus simply because, as another talkbacker put it, he can play a great "flawed hero". And I also believe Petersen can pull of something very epic, you would only have to watch "Das Boot" or "Neverending Story". But,

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 7:22 p.m. CST

    "the performance of the horse is too wooden"

    by Thing-Fish

    Great joke! :-)

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 7:52 p.m. CST

    Rerelease for Oscar Season 2005 Poster Blurb: "Helen of Troy Tit

    by Trav McGee

    But does Achilles drag the dead guy around the entire city walls to goad Hector into a cage match?

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 8:08 p.m. CST

    Dummy, it's the "GREEK ARMY" not the "SPARTAN ARMY". Sparta was

    by jackburton2003

    Dumbass ignorant reviewers.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 8:11 p.m. CST

    Well, it's been over ten years since I read it

    by Trav McGee

    And I think I got it wrong. Does Achilles drag Hector's body around the city, or drag someone else to goad Hector? I coulda sworn it was done as a challenge, not a victory lap. Ah, memory. Anyhow, hope Pitt gets to do it.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Fuck PG-13

    by Smurfette

    Why are the only R movies nowadays comedies in which people fuck pies or have cum hanging from their hair? I thought mature movies like this were intended to be R, not gross-out kiddie crap.

  • Feb. 13, 2004, 10:17 p.m. CST


    by FluffyUnbound

    Hector kills Patroclus, which is basically all you have to do to really, really piss Achilles off. Well, other than steal his sex slave captive. So Achilles goes out and beats Hector into a bloody piece of pulp, but stays angry, so he drags Hector around behind his chariot for a while, for no other reason than the fact that he is so pissed off that killing him just wasn't enough. This goes on for a couple of days, until Priam gets sick of it, and comes out in disguise to ask Achilles to give the body back. He kisses Achilles' foot and the big old softie feels bad, finally stops being mad, and gives the body back. The End. All the stuff you may have heard about an Achilles' Heel they save for the sequel.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:44 a.m. CST

    ANGEL HAS BEEN CANCELLED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by mpfanatic

    It's Over in Five for 'Angel' (Friday, February 13 04:53 PM) By Kate O'Hare LOS ANGELES ( - Early Friday (Feb. 13) an announcement was made to the cast and crew at The WB's "Angel" that this season, the show's fifth, will be its last. "It's official enough to know it's real," David Greenwalt, who co-created the series with Joss Whedon, tells, "but I haven't talked to anybody at the network or the studio. I can tell you that it's real, that it makes Mr. Whedon and myself very sad, that we wish it had kept going and we thought it was only getting better. "Joss and [executive producer]Jeff Bell told the cast and crew today. We have no understanding of the inner workings of the corporate world, but we've had a long and fruitful relationship with [producing studio] 20th Century Fox and The WB, for which we are grateful. We just wish it could have gone on forever. Apparently, it's not going to. "Joss literally called me this morning; so it's very new." This news comes on the heels of airing the 100th episode of the "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" spin-off, the taping of which was marked by a party on the show's sets last November. At that time, the WB's entertainment chief, Jordan Levin, said, "The work that you all do, I cannot thank you enough. This is something that will last. You can see it in the DVD sales. You see it in the fans. They give an incredible amount of attention to almost everything. "You've created a cult here, and it's pretty wonderful to be a part of it. So thank you and congratulations." It's the network's regard for the show that prompted it to give the producers an early enough heads up for a proper send-off at the end of the season. "Like some of the great series that are leaving the air this year, including 'Frasier' and 'Friends,' the cast, crew, writers and producers of 'Angel' deserve to be able to wrap up the series in a way befitting a classic television series, and that is why we went to Joss to let him know that this would be the last year of the series on The WB," the network says in a statement. "We have discussed continuing the Angel legacy with special movie events next year, which is still on the table. " Next week, on Wednesday, Feb. 18, "Angel" airs one of its most innovative episodes, called "Smile Time." Written and directed by Ben Edlund ("The Tick"), and based on an idea by Whedon, it sees the show's title character, a crusading vampire with a soul, forced to fight evil after being transformed into a walking puppet (with voice by series star David Boreanaz). "It's so brilliant," Greenwalt says. "I just love it. It's one of the finest pieces of filmmaking I've ever seen. It just cracked me up. It's so ridiculous and silly, and yet there's all this heartfelt stuff in it. It's just quintessential Whedon. "But wait until you see the episode that follows it in terms of abject heartbreak. It's just searing." Greenwalt stepped away from "Angel" a few years ago but has remained a consulting producer. Since then, he's worked on two short-lived but critically acclaimed series, ABC's "Miracles" and UPN's "Jake 2.0." But he's contemplating a possible return to his old stomping ground. "I might just go direct episode 20 [of 'Angel']," he says, "so I can say my farewell to everybody. That's something that might happen." As to the future of the show's star, The WB says, "David Boreanaz continues to be one of the finest, classiest and friendliest actors we have had the pleasure to work with and we hope that the relationship furthers from here. "The same can be said for all the actors and producers on the show. "

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 3:48 a.m. CST

    Re: Evenly spaced ships and PG-13/R rating

    by Lord_Soth

    First: those, who claim the ships are (nearly) evenly spaced in the first teaser should get a contact lens upgrade. Why not take a second peek, before stating such nonsense stuff? Second: why the hell studios are not releasing both PG-13 and R rated cuts in cinemas? You are an annoying, whining little girl: you go for the PG-13 rated version morning - you want to see the movie of the director's vision: you go for the R rated version evening.

  • The execs in Hollywood are a bunch of losers and I want them to all die a horrible death...fucking losers. Celebrities and the whole Hollywood "schtick" is dead..a bunch of rotting corpses. Who gives a rats ass about htese assholes? Dont we have our won lives to live? Do we have to wait around the compyter screen to wait for them to ruin classics? No Let them all die

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 5:58 a.m. CST

    On ratings...

    by Swithin

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:06 a.m. CST

    On ratings (again - stupid enter key)

    by Swithin

    Lord_Soth, I just flat out disagree with you on this one. Forcing the editors and post-production staffers to 'tone down' a movie so as to *win* a more profitable rating *hurts* a movie - ANY movie. Saying "watch the watered down version in the theatre, hope for a dvd-release of a decent movie later" doesn't help ease anyone's irritation. Good movies are made mediocre, mediocre movies are made unwatchable. The whole rating system is destroying the quality of American cinema - correction, *has* destroyed the quality of American cinema. Non-threatening = dumb, at least when it comes to movies which *should* kick your ass. Since everyone seems to be high on Gladiator comparisons, imagine this: it is possible to edit out enough of Gladiator to earn it a G rating. It's possible. How good of a movie would it be? It's not about the director's vision, it's about presenting a story which demands certain context and imagery, and then forcefully removing the elements which give the story weight. The director's "vision" is ruined when you edit out important dialogue for run-time, not when you edit out the story itself. That's just... cinematic barbarism.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:12 a.m. CST

    Heh... correcting myself.

    by Swithin

    Reread your post, got it (finally). Still, I think any and all editing for rating should be entirely *disallowed*. :) Even in a joke, the thought of it gets me pissed off. Releasing simultaneously an awesome version and a piss-poor version of the same movie is just as bad as releasing the piss-poor version by itself, in my book. If you care enough about the story to film it, you should care enough not to release a version that ruins that story. It's surprising just how much we *all* consider cinema to be industry alone now-a-days. I mean, we're talking specifically about the Iliad! If a cinematic version of the Iliad shouldn't be considered 'art' and shouldn't be expected to live up to a higher standard than opening-weekend gross then it's pretty much time to give up on the world.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:37 a.m. CST

    Movie of 2004?

    by beano

    Hopefully this will be the movie of 2004.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:38 a.m. CST

    mynameisnobody and clashing armies

    by Foozwack

    From your post it seems that you think the entire clashing army is CG. Why do you assume that? It is more likely that they shot a few hundred real life people and matched the action with mocap for the rest. In either case, the motion comes from real people. Perhaps they actually did jump like that...? I suspect that many people here are just projecting their own prejudices (It must be CG therefore it must look fake.) So where do you think the real guys are? Can you spot the boundary between the extras and CG? Until people can spot it, then all this puritanical whining about things looking fake is unfounded.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 8:33 a.m. CST

    Yes, the ratings system MUST GO.

    by FluffyUnbound

    In some ways, when you adopt a policy of "self-policing" in response to government threats of "police yourself or else" the effect is worse than if you just took the punishment. If the government had tried to go forward with attempts to censor movies, as they threatened to do, at the time that the MPAA got started, they would have been laughed out of court. It would have been a tough fight for about 18 months. Instead of having the stones to have the fight, Hollywood rolled over and sentenced itself to servitude FOREVER. The quest to obtain a PG-13 rating has certainly helped to ruin films. For the first few years of its existence, the ratings system may have helped a few daring films, as a certain segment of the public sought out films with certain ratings for the novelty of it. But since 1975 the effect has been negative. Films have steadily been better made in technical terms, but the soul has leeched out of them. There are many factors at play, and the MPAA is only one of them - but it IS one of them. And what makes it more upsetting is that IT HASN'T DONE WHAT IT WAS INTENDED TO DO. No one has been "saved" from the "corrupting" influence of movies. It makes me laugh that they think that they are insulating a nation of sexually active 15 year olds, half of whom either have kids themselves or have a neighbor 15 year old who does, from the sight of a tit. It also makes me laugh to think that 14 and 15 year olds made up a good part of the armies depicted in films about ancient warfare. Those 15 year olds were tough enough to see REAL arms get chopped off, but somehow our 15 year olds will be permanently disabled if they see a computer graphic with some red pixels. It's a gigantic crock. Our definition of childhood in 2004 America is historically, culturally, biologically, and developmentally absurd. Octavian took control of his adoptive father's legions and changed his name to Augustus, and politically outmaneuvered the most sophisticated men in the world, at an age where in America he would be considered too young and fragile to have a beer.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 9:26 a.m. CST

    Gotcha Fluffy

    by Trav McGee

    Right. Looks like I was mixing up the cause and effect. Gracias. ...I'm looking forward to this film, really, just to erase from my mind that TBS (?) "Helen" fiasco of last year. Lord was that a trial.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 10:08 a.m. CST

    just to set the record straight

    by the geat

    Patroclus (the mentioned whiny little cousin of Achilles) was in actuality his long time companion and lover, NOT his idolizing little cousin. Have figured all along this (THE) major aspect of Achilles ultimate involvement in the Trojan war would be censored due to Brad Pitt's all important image. Too bad - would have made for a more interesting film from many angles not to mention forcing Master Pitt to stretch some long atrophied acting muscles.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 10:13 a.m. CST

    oh never mind

    by the geat

    i just realized there is a whole section on Patroclus where the lover connextion is explained ad naseum - hate being redundant!

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 10:16 a.m. CST

    Ye Gods

    by John Nefastis

    I've been looking forward to a decent Troy movie as long as I've been hoping for a decent Lord of the Rings. But if Wolfgang has dropped the gods then much of the point / magic has gone for me. In my head the film has always started with a speeded-up Moulin-Rougeish preface: a bloke and a God fall in love, send out wedding invitations & forget someone. From this tiny, insignicant action the whole Trojan War is sparked - plus the Oddysey and the eventual founding of Rome (if you want a Virgil-based sequel). If it's just another sword and sandels epic then it might as well be Gladiator 2, as has been suggested. Side notes: not sure what one poster was on about when they said that it was handy that Sean Bean was Ulysses/Odysseus because Ulysses is Joyce's masterpiece and Joyce is Irish. Despite doing an Irish accent in films like Patriot Games, Sean Bean is English (from Sheffield I think). Oh and a message to the person who wrote that Shakespeare never revised anything - Ben Johnson may have claimed it, but it's very unlikely. One proof is the fact there is no single authorative version of Hamlet - the standard version you'll get in a bookstore is a composite, with some parts from certain folios and some parts from others. There a major variations in particular speeches.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 10:17 a.m. CST

    Um, PG-13 GLadiator?

    by DukeDeMondo

    Gladiator got a 12 rating here in the UK, which i was pretty sure translated as PG-13 stateside. Did it get an R? That seems somewhat harsh. Anyhoo, i can't say these epics do a terrible lot for me. No doubt i'll enjoy it, and there'll be plenty of eye candy, but i can't say i'm anticipating it with fevered saliva-drenched glee. Anyhow, whatever, can i just say that mentions of "tit-shots" are the first thing that puts me off a movie? Maybe i'm jsut a puritan conservative Ludite, but i just find on-screen nudity incredibly embaressing. Especially after watching Apocolypse Soon -The Making Of Citizen Toxie. Check out the preview of 9/11 by Mark Bain at

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 11:38 a.m. CST

    bonk of 37

    by fbsthreads

    good review. i actually read all the way through it without become bored at any pointless details and asides (other reviewers take note). i hope they don't go for a 13 rating, and if they do then the DVD release will probably be better than the cinema release. i also expect this film to be more exciting than some midgets walking through a forest for 10 hours.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 12:13 p.m. CST

    R rating

    by teen15wonder

    as much as i want troy 2 be a pg-13 rating so i can get in 2 c it, i think that if it is, they would hav 2 cut out alot of the things that will make this such a gr8 movie. yea, alot of teenage grlz r going 2 c this movie 4 orlando bloom (i'm 1 of them) but i'm sure they would rather c an R rated, gr8 movie nd hav 2 sneak in in order 2 c it, then watch a pg-13, watered-down, not so gr8 version. i dont think that this movie is targeted towards teenagers nd should not hav 2 cut out some gr8 scenes just 2 make a little more of a profit. if this movie is R, or pg-13, i will find a way 2 c it in theatres, even if it means going w/ my parents 2 c it.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 1:11 p.m. CST

    Yeah, but is there a Trojan horse in it???

    by Joe Cool #2

    Of course, all I can think of now is that rabbit from Monty Python and the Holy Grail... "Perhaps if we built this giant badger..."

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:32 p.m. CST

    Holy shit...

    by JoJoBea

    I really hope you all know how kick ass this movie will be. It will. Not that I've seen it, but the story is awesome and the cast is awesome. Don't write it off as a boom until you see it. I just hope they keep it at R. Oh...and lay off Orlando!!! His character is a lover, not a fighter, so of course he won't fight a whole lot! Geez...

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 6:57 p.m. CST

    The True Paris

    by legolaslover2003

    I wrote this long thing complaining about how this sexiest review wasn't for me... but the computer erased it and I think I've changed my strategy. First off, I haven't seen the film and I hope that this guy can keep his "tits" comments to himself when he gives a movie review the next time. He could have just said, "Yeah, there's nudity" but no... he has to disgrace women by constantly talking about Helen's breasts... Obnoxious pig... Anyway, onto the real reason I wanted to write this. I will let you know now that I've never seen "Troy" and my opinions come only from my knowledge of Paris himself (of which I have done extensive research through many different texts) and of the Trojan War. *Slight Spoilers* I would like to say that Hector is not all he is cracked up to be. He literally ran around the walls of Troy to escape from Achilles. It was his own cowardly brother Paris who had to stand up to the mighty warrior in the end. Achilles wasn't as bad-ass as you think either. He cried and wept for days because Agamemnon stole away his woman and literaly went crying to his mother, Thetis, to invoke the god's wrath... which she did. Paris is a coward, just as the reviewer said. "Paris quailed as he saw Menelaus come forward, and shrank in fear of his life under the cover of his men." -The Iliad. "Then Hector upbraided him. 'Paris,' said he, 'evil-hearted Paris, fair to see, but woman-mad and false of tongue, would that you had never been born, or that you had died unwed. Better so, than live to be disgraced and looked askance at. Will not the Achaeans mock at us and say that we have sent one to champion us who is fair to see but who has neither wit nor courage? Did you not, such as you are, get your following together and sail beyond the seas? Did you not from a far country carry off a lovely woman wedded among a people of warriors - to bring sorrow upon your father, your city, and your whole country, but joy to your enemies, and hangdog shamefacedness to yourself? And now can you not dare face Menelaus and learn what manner of man he is whose wife you have stolen? Where indeed would be your lyre and your love tricks, your comely locks and your fair favor, when you were lying in the dust before him? The Trojans are a weak-kneed people, or ere this you would have had a shirt of stones for the wrongs you have done them.'" -The Iliad However... though Paris was cowardly, he fought Menelaus nonetheless. He was brave, though he did not know it. Now I have this to say... Without the character of Paris, there would be NO TROJAN WAR. The reviewer hates him because he's basically spineless and think that he does nothing but further the plot once or twice... how wrong you must be. Though, I don't expect someone so shallow to understand. His eyes must have been occupied much as Paris' were... Many a time I have read a review on this website and they have bashed any character which Orlando has played, be it Legolas or Will Turner and now Paris. Jealousy, perhaps from the male gender? I do not know. However, I do know this... Paris was famed to be one of the fairest men of his time, so picking Bloom, who had already played a fair elven prince, was a good choice. I do look foward to Eric Bana's performance, since I was very disappointed with "The Hulk" and I've wanted to see him in something else good since "Black Hawk Down". Brad Pitt I also look foward to, because the USA miniseries "Helen of Troy" did not do Achilles much justice at all. He was very very shallow in that. Not to mention Brian Cox or Sean Bean's performances do interest me greatly as well. I know it will get an R rating, for nudity and for violence (those I knew of even before reading this horrid review) and I would like to point out that I hope they do not cut out anything save for perhaps a bit of any too-long battle scenes. LOTR showed that movies can be 3 hours, why not make "Troy" the same? Anyway, there's my rant and rave for today. Thanks for listening... or reading rather... Laters!

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 8:22 p.m. CST

    Maybe Paris will go AWOL from the Trojan National Guard and lie

    by Bill Maher

    Then thirty years later, he'll do a painting-op on the deck of a war galley dressed in hoplite armor he didn't have the balls to wear when it counted and accuse his betters of being cowards and traitors.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 8:27 p.m. CST


    by JoJoBea

    Oh man, you hit the nail right on the head. Thank you so much for pointing all of that (The importance of Paris and such) out. Orlando's charatcer isn't pointless. Without Paris, there would be no myth, no story, no war, no movie. He can't simply be cut out! His charcter is, yes, a coward. But that doesn't mean he is always running away and crying all the time. Also, I've noticed the Orlando bashing too...and what is up with that?! Jealous, wanting to piss people off, or are you just not realizing that he's new and has had basically limited roles? Hopefully this and his future movies will prove some wrong and they'll actually admit he's got talent. You may say I'm biased (I dont really think I am...), but it doesn't matter; You can't help but notice him. Plus, he's perfect for Paris; Paris was said to be the most handsome man in the world :)

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 8:30 p.m. CST

    Now that, Dick Hertz was fucking hilarious

    by MyGlockYourMouth

    Salude! Bush would be fighting the Toe Jam war with foot fungus in those most ancient of times and would be rolling into camp a few days after the horse had ensured victory.

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 10:26 p.m. CST

    The Ship Scene Is Probably Pretty Accurate

    by Farging Bastige

    According to Carnage And Culture by Victor Davis Hanson, the real life battle of Salamis (480 BC) saw over 1,000 triremes (300-370 Greek, 600+ Persian) battle in only one square mile of sea. The Greeks were master war mariners so the ship scene is probably pretty accurate. Salamis was one of the most important battles in history, by the way. If the Persians had won, Western Civilization would have died in its infancy. But fortunately, as usual, the Men of the West soundly kicked the non-Western civ's ass. Oh yeah, I almost forgot: "Troy" looks very cool. "Sing, O goddess, the anger of Achilles son of Peleus, that brought countless ills upon the Achaeans."

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 11:37 p.m. CST


    by MisterBlonde

    You're an example of one of my favorite reasons to read talkbacks. The acronym post was a hilarious post making fun of the teen audience the studios want to dumb Troy down for, and you not only didn't get it, but you ridiculed it. You're almost as bad as the fucktards that thought the "Selma Blair gets implants!" post was real. Now if my predictions are correct, the response will be "I WAS JOKING TOO! MRBLOND IS A FAGOT!!!11"

  • Feb. 14, 2004, 11:38 p.m. CST

    Legolaslover2003, great post!

    by Swithin

    Helen of Troy on USA was interesting, and admittedly pretty, but more characters than Achilleas were botched, although he by far got the worst treatment. Menelaos was extremely sympathetic, however, and IMHO very well cast. Back to the point, you're absolutely right in affirming Paris's central importance to *everything* that follows Helen's departure, although I'd be a little easier on Hector than you seem to be. What I expect (in a good sense) from Troy is that they won't politicize the proceedings or modernize the war to make a political statement the way Helen of Troy did (I don't think either of these films are going for the T&A factor.) The main problem is that the further from the actual story any translation wanders, the more the central characters themselves have to be reinvented (as Paris and Achilleas in HoT,) which ultimately threatens to transform the film into a cliched hybrid war-movie/love-story. This is the obvious dichotomy: you have 21st-century filmmakers shooting a a 5th-century BCE story. *Anything* they add or alter will rather transparently be modern in its motivation and logic, and that's what could ruin the movie.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 2:13 a.m. CST

    Sounds great just so long as they don't mess it up by trying to

    by Gere's AssGerbil

    As cool as The Illiad is, does anybody really buy the whole Horse bit? It's pretty far-fetched that the Trojans would be that gullible, especially after years of fighting the war. It's been awhile, but doesn't one of the Trojans even suggest that they burn the Horse because Greeks might be hiding inside? The only reason it works in the epic is that throughout the story we see how the Gods act and how they interact directly with the people and so we can kinda believe how eager they are to accept the Horse as a gift from the Gods. But if the movie is gonna ignore the Gods and try to play it Gladiator-style as a straight-up historical fiction piece, then the Trojan Horse will totally kill the film. The audience is never gonna buy seeing the Trojans sweating their skirts off to haul this obvious Horse-of-Death inside their wall. It'll seem too fantastical and too incongruous with the rest of the story. Anyway, that's my two cents.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 3:24 a.m. CST

    I also saw Troy this past Thursday night

    by iluvmovies

    I felt that the special effects in the version of Troy shown this past Thursday were great although not quite as appealing as in the latest Lord Of The Rings movie. You can definitely tell however that they spent alot of money on them. The battle sequences were good although there were so many of them that they became slightly tedious (I mean how many times do you want to see a guy get a sword through his chest or head). The biggest problem I see with the movie is that there are so many characters in the storyline that you never really feel for one character accept for maybe Eric Bana as Hector and to a smaller degree Brad Pitt as Achilles. I had a much harder time buying Brad Pitt as an uber warrior than I did Russell Crowe in Gladiator. I liked that Gladiator focused on Russell Crowe's character where as this early version of Troy seems to wander between characters too much in it's storyline.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 3:54 a.m. CST

    Re: CGI soldiers

    by Lord_Soth

    Yeah, there are plenty of them. But what did you expect? Hiring 100 000 real swordsman and killing themselves for the movie and your pleasure? At least it's not 100 percent CGI, but heavily enhanced stuntwork. Unlike the ultimately fake battles in LOTR, goddamn.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 5:27 a.m. CST

    EVERYTHING sounds "utterly fantastic" to industry cocksucker Har

    by Jerkwald Loser

    Dude, you

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 9:44 a.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    "Maybe i'm jsut a puritan conservative Ludite, but i just find on-screen nudity incredibly embaressing."..... Jeez.... You suffer from a disorder like that and also watch Troma films? You've definitely got issues, chief!

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 9:51 a.m. CST

    I won't disagree, MyNameIsNobody

    by Farging Bastige

    I am not a military tactical historian so I couldn't say how accurate the ship scene is. I agree with you that it was meant to give a sense of awe, which it did for me (I wonder if the CGI folks actually launched a 1000 ships, as per the legend of Helen's beauty). It seems realistic to me, in spite of the scant knowledge I have of classical history. Tactically, if the ships were to fight other ships, they would form lines. But if they were just an invasion force (like this one), it wasn't necessary to form lines, since they were only using the ships to come ashore (they would not have been as closely packed, though, as per the movie).

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 6:04 p.m. CST

    Sean Bean

    by Danger Mouse

    Has anyone seen a pic of Sean Bean as Oddysius??? i take it he must not have a big part in the film...

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 9:02 p.m. CST


    by el zar

    'nuff said

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 9:44 p.m. CST

    ratings, sean bean and the main characters

    by steffie8890

    I know, it is sad but yes, they are claiming brad pitt as the main character. if you have seen the movie poster. also, yeah, why didn't they mention sean bean asa odysseous(sorry if it is spelled wrong) i mean, it was his idea to build the wooden horse. and about the ratings, why do they even have ratings if i want to see R movies, i can just change it to HBO(for those in america) which is provided free with cable. so basically, i can watch bloody war sequences as well as porn if i wanted too (not that i do) if you people want to know more about TROY, go to the official website, most of the features are coming soon but there is still some things there it is :

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 9:56 p.m. CST


    by BillEmic

    Hey, if anyone of you guys like the "epic war battle" sequences of such films as Braveheart, Gladiator, Troy, etc. then you owe it to yourself to see MUSA THE WARRIOR, recently released by Tai Seng home video. I'd consider it THE best of the epic battle films I've seen with a cast of colorful and endearing characters. There's a supporting character of this monk, who's a big, big dude but he's taken a vow of peace. So for the entire movie, he refuses to fight in the battles - until the end when these innocent children are threatened, and he just goes BEZERK and tears the supports off of buildings and everything. The movie is worth seeing for that moment alone! Hunt it down. Great characters and gore-filled battle sequences. A must see.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 11:05 p.m. CST


    by Moregan

    Wasn't it Achiles' lover who was brought back dead from the war that made him want to fight? From what I remember there were a couple of charecters that kept male lovers.

  • Feb. 15, 2004, 11:31 p.m. CST

    So, uh...what do you mean by 'public revelations?'

    by dillene

    Will I need to see this film more than once? More than twice? It's based on classical Greek literature, which gives them an excellent opportunity to include some full frontal. I mean, look at Greek art- they obviously didn't mind. I don't mind. My friends don't mind. Does Orlando Bloom mind?

  • and use lines from a year ago

  • Feb. 17, 2004, 6:05 a.m. CST

    Scarily enough, the reviewer didn't say 'public revelations', bu

    by raw_bean

    Which I think makes it pretty obvious what he meant? ------ There are pictures of the mighty Sean Bean as Odysseus, just go to the website, -- It doesn't look like he's going to have a massive role, no, but hopefully if we all go see this film and make it a massive success, the studio will demand a sequel and we'll get Sean Bean starring in The Oddysey! (I can live in hope, can't I?)

  • Feb. 17, 2004, 6:16 a.m. CST

    tedious battle sequences

    by neardark

    When 'iluvmovies' complained about the repetitive fighting in the film it convinced me that the film might be fairly faithful to the text, as I remember when studying it the tediously repetitive way the fighting was actually described.This was put down to the 'oral' tradition that created the Iliad; apparently when the travelling poet forgot the next bit or needed time to think something new up, he would mark time by describing yet another installment spear-throwing, followed by sword fighting with lots of tendon ripping I seem to remember. In fact reading this talkback has been an exercise in recovered memory. I too hope Cassandra and her never-believed, but always accurate prophecies, turns up. Most of the criticism of the film seem to be due to its following the text, ie wide range of characters, most of them with as many weaknesses as faults. Except for Hector, he was always pretty heroic as far as I remember. I'm hoping for a good showing for Sean Bean too, I always wished they'd cast him as his brother Faramir too in LOTR, it could have worked!

  • Feb. 17, 2004, 6:24 a.m. CST


    by raw_bean

    I'm both repeating myself and really fooling myself if I think you'll find this, but NO THEY AREN'T! Sorry, don't mean to shout, but it simply isn't true. Now, I'm not trying to say you're a liar or an idiot, or anything like that. Far from it. In fact the first few times I saw the trailer, I thought the ships were in a perfectly even grid as well, and thought it looked stupid. But do what I did, watch the trailer again, and pause it towards the end of that shot, or even go through it frame by frame. The thing is, the first three ships you see ARE quite evenly spaced before it zooms very far out's logical pattern finding nature, doesn't bother analysing the rest too much and just assumes that they are evenly space, so it's like an optical illusion, when your brain fools you into believing you're seeing something that's not the way it really is. If you go through the shot frame by frame, you'll quickly see that after the shot zooms out past the first three ships, the rest of the navy is randomly clumped and spread out, just the way you'd expect them to be. Also, although they are all roughly the same (in size and general shape), your 'cut & paste' accusations are a little harsh; the ships do differ from one to another somewhat. ------- Lastly, you're always going on about over-use of imperfect CGI fighters in LOTR. They assembled the largest cavalry charge (of REAL people on REAL horses) in film history, and still needed more. There wasn't much else they could do but have massive (no pun intended) CGI armies. Personally, I think the CGI battles looked great, and even if you disagree, you must surely see that it was the best that could be done at the time? Maybe in a few years, CGI technology will catch up to your exacting standards, but in the context of the here and now, LOTR has done huge, epic battles bigger and better than anything else. ------- PS, don't talk up Braveheart too much, or someone'll point out the wobbly rubber swords and extras wearing glasses and wristwatches! :)

  • Feb. 17, 2004, 6:29 a.m. CST

    AAARRGGGHHHHH! Garbled nonsense, sorry. I'll repeat the post her

    by raw_bean

    "They ships are perfectly spaced (parallel). It's completely unrealistic." Comment: I'm both repeating myself and really fooling myself if I think you'll find this, but NO THEY AREN'T! Sorry, don't mean to shout, but it simply isn't true. Now, I'm not trying to say you're a liar or an idiot, or anything like that. Far from it. In fact the first few times I saw the trailer, I thought the ships were in a perfectly even grid as well, and thought it looked stupid. But do what I did, watch the trailer again, and pause it towards the end of that shot, or even go through it frame by frame. The thing is, the first three ships you see ARE quite evenly spaced, before it zooms very far out. Then your logical, pattern-finding human brain does it's stuff, doesn't bother analysing the rest too much and just assumes that they are evenly spaced. It's like an optical illusion, when your brain fools you into believing you're seeing something that's not the way it really is. If you go through the shot frame by frame, you'll quickly see that after the shot zooms out past the first three ships, the rest of the navy is randomly clumped and spread about, just the way you'd expect them to be. Also, although they are all roughly the same (in size and general shape), your 'cut & paste' accusations are a little harsh; the ships do differ from one to another somewhat, in colour of sail, size, and some details. ------- Lastly, you're always going on about over-use of imperfect CGI armies in LOTR. They assembled the largest cavalry charge (of REAL people on REAL horses) in film history, and still needed more. There wasn't much else they could do but have massive (no pun intended) CGI armies. Personally, I think the battles looked great, and even if you disagree, you must surely see that it was the best that could be done at the time? Maybe in a few years, CGI technology will catch up to your exacting standards, but in the context of the here and now, LOTR has done huge, epic battles bigger and better than anything else. ------ PS, don't talk up Braveheart too much, or someone'll point out the wobbly rubber swords, and extras wearing glasses and wristwatches! :)

  • Feb. 17, 2004, 6:41 a.m. CST

    Neardark, Sean Bean as Faramir as well as Boromir? Yeesh, God no

    by raw_bean

    Cheesy, silly, confusing. Also, I like it the way it is, I think David Wenham is great (in the Extended TTT, and hopefully the Extended ROTK), and the 'Sons of the Steward' scene in the Extended TTT is one of my favourites from all three parts. Sean Bean and David Wenham both look like they could be brothers, and have an excellent scene. Then Denethor turns up, again looks like he shares real genetic material with the brothers, and it all culminates in an excellent scene that fleshes out the story, and explains Boromir's motivations in FOTR, Faramir's in TTT, and Denethor's in ROTK. It's a crucial linking piece for the whole epic, and it's a crying shame it was cut from the theatrical release. Anyway, I've wandered pretty far off-topic, so I'll shut up now. ---------- I wonder what they'll do about the whole 'Achilles heel' thing. Have Achilles thrashing Hector in a sword fight, then get hit by an arrow or javelin in the ankle, and have Hector strike a death blow while Achilles reels back in pain?

  • Feb. 17, 2004, 9:30 a.m. CST

    T"hey look pretty bad...just like the ones within LOTR. MASSIVE

    by minderbinder

    Huh, that's funny...that's exactly what they did in LotR (actually they supposedly had five thousand extras for some scenes). But it's pretty hard to make two thousand guys look like two hundred thousand without some help from FX.

  • Feb. 17, 2004, 9:58 a.m. CST

    T"hey look pretty bad...just like the ones within LOTR. MASSIVE

    by minderbinder

    Huh, that's funny...that's exactly what they did in LotR (actually they supposedly had five thousand extras for some scenes). But it's pretty hard to make two thousand guys look like two hundred thousand without some help from FX.

  • Feb. 17, 2004, 10:19 a.m. CST

    T"hey look pretty bad...just like the ones within LOTR. MASSIVE

    by minderbinder

    Huh, that's funny...that's exactly what they did in LotR (actually they supposedly had five thousand extras for some scenes). But it's pretty hard to make two thousand guys look like two hundred thousand without some help from FX.

  • Feb. 20, 2004, 8:52 p.m. CST


    by under_five_feet

    I bow to you and your greatness. People, without Paris the war would never have started--no movie, no Iliad. Sure he has weaknesses--being a dense pretty boy, who btw left his lover (or was that wife?) Oenone for Helen, who ended up with Menelaus anyway, and all that--but he is crucial to the plot and all the Orlando/Paris-bashing in the review probably comes from jealousy that the reviewer can't fuck Helen himself. And to that poster--forget who--who said something about "Paris banging Agamemnon's girl," Helen is the wife of MENELAUS, not Agamemnon.

  • April 2, 2004, 6:54 p.m. CST


    by BlueStarlight

    I could live with all the other changes in this movie, but why leave out Cassandra? She has always been a part of the story and a popular character. They could have worked here in somewhere.

  • April 20, 2004, 6:22 p.m. CST


    by koolgirl08

    Orlando Bloom is the hottest guy in THE WORLD, and is perfect for Paris in Troy. Oh, about the "pubic revelations", does it mean what i think it means? Cuz, I don't give a damn about Kruger's ass and tits. All I can think about know is that my hottie for life is in sex scenes, which mean NAKED SCENES! Damn, he is soooo freaken HOTT!!!

  • May 3, 2004, 2:35 a.m. CST

    non-cgi armies

    by Ostrogoth

    For folks curious about how the largest army of extras ever assembled for a movie look(ed) on screen, try the recent DVD release of Seergi Bondarchuk's "War and Peace".