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Content ... and it looks like i might finally be first. actually, i've never had the aspiration anyway. going to see this early at a press screening. can't wait, but let's move on. how many more reviews do we need?

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Content It just won't make it.

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Content filmed it decomposing for three hours, named it Return of the King and STILL the LOTR trilogy would be the best set of movies of all time. I wish I was one of the people who never read the books and instead was introduced to Middle-Earth by these movies.

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Content I need windshield wipers for my monitor. I just blew my load all over my desktop.

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Content I cannot wait for this movie! It's become psychotic but I don't care. I haven't been moved by a film series like this since I was a kid watching the Original Star Wars trilogy. I know the parallels and comparisons are constantly brought up but it's relevant. The OT helped shaped so many people's childhoods and now LOTR is shaping and reviving people's adulthoods. I just love these movies with a passion. They never grow old. What a blessing from God!

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Content Have you ever noticed that the more effusive the praise in a movie review the faster the trolls take their whacks at it? What we have here is a clear case of repression, as the troll so clearly worships the film being reviewed, but has some unhealthy need to seem cooler then everyone else in an anonymous talkback (an interesting issue all by itself), and therefore goes to great lengths to dump on the film. Thus, as we continue through this new talkback on the Return of the King, just remember that as the trolls punch in with their tired tirades about the movie (Ryalto, Indiana Clones, Gadzooookssss, and whoever else (kinda miss Elf_Killer, at least he has some sense of humor))that they really are dying to tell you that they will first in line to take in the midnight show, and will have their inflatable Frodo dolls with them to provide them some comfort in the long hours of waiting. Don't forget the hot chocolate, kids. Let your Mom know that you still like the mini-marshmallows. Be safe, kids!

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Content /Chandler Voice on> "Could there BE anymore ROTK reviews on this site?"

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Content I haven't trusted anything the academy has voted for since they virtually ignored Star Wars in 1978. How do you ignore a movie that made more money than any other movie in history at the time.

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Content This book's been out for 50 years or so...I'm not sure if you're really going to spoil anything for anyone here... IMO, TTT was the best of the books (followed by The Hobbit...maybe vice versa), so I'm not expecting much story wise, but visually, I'm looking forward to this sucka.

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Content Fellowship is near perfect to me..I really was expecting Two Towers to be the lesser of the three. I neeeed ROTK to the fucking shit and own Two Towers at least!

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Content Do we get to see *SPOILERS PEOPLE!* the hobbits take back the Shire from Sharkey and Mr. S? I mean, I loved that whole ending to the book, it showed how much they'd grown and how revered the four hobbits became in the Shire - has this been sliced off the story, what with Saruman being effectively jobbed from the original cut? I really really hope not as it rounded off the growth of the characters for me. Anyone?

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Content I have always had the impression of the Academy being very prejudice, traditional (opposite of innovative and progressive), and easily bought and sustained by the Hollywood big money machine. I refuse to give relevance to the Academy. They can't tell me what films/ performers, directors, etc. are great. I think it sucks that so many movies are made/ not made, so many actors, actresses, directors, etc. praised/ not praised, etc. because of the influence the Academy wields. Just like any historical social movement, any change is going to come from the grassroots level and from the fans. The question is, how? OK, I know I'm stretching this now. What can I say, I'm bored at my desk, lol. But seriously, I think there is some merit to what I'm trying to convey. That's why AICN is so great because here fans can talk about a flick and love it, despite what the "so-called" movie experts may say. Anyway, I can't wait for ROTK. If it wins the Oscar, great. If it doesn't, great (and I won't be surprised).

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Content Moriarty did NOT say that RotK was the worst of the three films. In fact, over at Chud he said it was the best, combining the character moments of FotR with the action of TTT (I posted the full quote in the last LotR talkback.) What he said was that the TE cuts were the most problematic, meaning stuff you're expecting to see has been cut for time considerations. That's annoying, sure, but we'll eventually be seeing the stuff on the EE, so I guess we can deal. But, the point is, even people who have seen the film and lament the TE cuts have said it's the best of the three.

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Content Sorry man. Don't know where you've been for the last three years -- 'cause if you love the scouring of the Shire so much, I would have thought you'd know what everyone else has known for a loooooooooong time. PJ never shot it. As much as I agree with your take on that section of the book, I have to acknowledge that it would be kind of an unwieldy denouement to add to a film. The ONLY nod to the scouring was in FOTR when Frodo looked into Galadriel's fountain and saw what the Shire would become if Sauron were to win. But jeez -- I thought everybody knew this.

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Content Frodo, on the other hand...

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Content I saw at mention of at least 2 things that didn't happen in the books, or at least were changed from how it happens in the books, before I skipped to the end. And that's OK, because as long as the changes/additions work and aren't too major or unnecessary, they help to make the film more enjoyable. And if you still don't know that the scouring of the Shire is not in the movie at this point in time, then I envy you for being able to see the movie completely unspoiled, and, uh, welcome to AICN.

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Content I think Louis Cyphre was trolling - paraphrasing yesterday's talkback with some mock-anxiety thrown in for good measure. And see? It worked!

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Content I meant, of course, that some of the changes make the films more enjoyable IF you've read the book, because that way you don't know exactly what's going to happen all the time. Thanks, PJ. I just watched all the bonus disk material from the EE of the FOTR (don't know why I never got around to it before) & TTT over the past 2 days and I'm SO JAZZED! Big-atures RULE!

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Content How embarrassing! Having been here day in and day out for TIME, I guess I should pay more attention to those weighty talkbacks! I think its my lazy arse not having the patience to even go near a Star Wars, Matrix or Lord of The Rings talkback on accounts it would take days to read all the posts! ...but yeah, after seeing the prescient images in Galadriel's pool I had been wondering about that. Doesn't that not having those end scenes defeat the point of Merry and Pippin growing taller than your average hobbit? Ach, PJ can do no wrong, sod it. Cheers fellas/laydeez!

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Content This film is corrupting you! It is stopping you from living life! Resist temptation. Throw these shitty flicks in a volcano and get on with your lives. You fat fucks.

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Content of course i am am stupidly excited about ROTK. The guy who said that this trilogy would have the same effect on a generation of kids as the OT had on me (us) was totally right, judging by the effects on my 9yr old godson. The amount of passion invested in this film by the makers borders on religous fever and every frame is so lovingly crafted. For me the extended editions are so much more potent and harry was right in saying that beyond all reason, the TTEE feels shorter... maybe because it is even more watchable. I also agree with the guy who mentioned there won;t be any closure until the EE dvd is released. I think everyone will suffer from withdrawal symptoms until that sucker is out. Oh and since i don't post very often.... the matrix sequels are pure, popcorn, comic book cinema. Yes they could have been better, but i bloody loved them anyway.. and as for the star wars prequels, leave them alone... i love being in that universe pod races, senate and all (except jar jar).. peace and up the VILLA!!

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Content Wow, how obvious it seems now. And yet, still how utterly pointless. Fuck, if you're gonna troll, troll hard! But, it's my fault for letting my cynicism drop. All I know is, I can't wait to see Christopher Lee in action again!

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Content .... to all the "Lord of the Rings sucks, Star Wars prequels rule" postings? Heh! Guess even the holdouts learned their lesson. Those blinders getting rudely yanked off sure did smart, I'll bet...

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Content *splutter!!* Madam, you OFFEND! ;) No, honestly, I AM that far out of the loop!

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Content .....NOT!!! heh...actually I am looking forward to getting trashed and then going on opening night and being annoyingly loud to all the fanboy nerds in the theater. After constantly yelling random shit at the screen and being the target of sneers and jeers (you nerds would throw popcorn at me but then you wouldn't be able to EAT it, you fat fucks) I will walk out of the theater as credits roll, triumphantly with arms raised high, shouting "I'm the champ! I'm the champ!". I will be then known as "that asshole" in all your conversations about the movie for the rest of your lives. Nuff

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Content Something to note about the hoplessly blinkered glowingly euphoric reviews of LOTR - they all rag on Star Wars/The Matrix. Funny. Expect this love affair to be short lived.

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Content Have you heard whether or not Tom Bombadil will finally make an appearance? I've heard rumors that he plays a pivotal role in the downfall of Saruman. Not to mention his three-way with Eowyn and Faramir that helps cement their relationship.

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Content I just don't get british slang....

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Content *ducks under his duvet cover in the hopes that that nasty man from AICN stops bullying him one day...*

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Content Before anyone starts posting how Bakshi's version is better than PJ's(seems to always happen in these TB's), here is a neat site you should visit. http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/bakshi/bakshi.htm

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Content "All I know is, I can't wait to see Christopher Lee in action again" I hate to spoil it for you, but I fear Chris Lee has but a small cameo in the 3rd film. The VOS has been cut.

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Content Why the hell do the Brits have to make it so damn obvious that they are Brits when they are sucking Lucas's cock? When they are whacking off to The Phantom Menace of all movies AND STILL trying to tell us how good it is. Are these the same Europeans that STILL worship Michael Jackson? You have to wonder... I mean, do they think ANYTHING sucks? It's like they have memories or a love of something American - Star Wars or MJ - and they just WON'T let go of the memory and wake up to the current reality. Hey, I thought Attack of the Clones was pretty cool, but the way these people carry on, you'd think that the new trilogy is better than the old one. And some of them actually are asleep enough to make that claim. And they ALWAYS HAVE TO REMIND US ALL THAT LUCAS COULDN'T GIVE A SHIT, THEY ARE HIS 'FOOKIN' FILMS SO LEAVE HIM THE 'ELL ALONE AND GO OFF AND MAKE YER OWN BLOODY MOVIES OR GO GET 'ARSED.' See what I mean? It's just ridiculous... I've also asked this question before and I'll ask it again - Anyone else notice this and get irritated by it beyond all reason? This is the same fucking reason I can't stand magazines like Empire - they have some decent interviews sometimes but more often than not they're filled with this - photos of Coppola with a gun to his head circa apocalypse now, photos of travis bickle with guns pointed at the audience, photos of Michael Madsen with a gun pointed at Mr. White, photos of Spielberg inside the mouth of Bruce, the shark from Jaws, a 'retrospective' on Scorsese that ignores Last Temptation of Christ, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, etc. and makes the claim that Goodfellas or Casino is better than Raging Bull or Mean Streets... and all of it without ANY CLUE as to what the subtext is in all of these films. We're all entitled to our opinion but I just honestly wonder where there's is coming from sometimes. Oh, and just to stay on topic - I thought some of the EE edition parts of The Two Towers were a bit jarring, but they did make it somehow seem shorter. Not all of the additions, but most of them. And I can't shake the fear that moving or removing so much of the end of The Two Towers to ROTK might make it so that the actual book elements have to be squeezed into middle and third hour of the film. Kinda worried about that.

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Content There's no bullying here. Just deep and important discussion. Fuck organic webshooters! Fuck them up their stupid asses!

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Content ...Of who's being sincere and who's being a smartass.

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Content Can't wait... I'm buying my tickets today!

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Content that ROTK will be better than anything Lucas has ever done. Ooops, sorry... meant to save that for the last paragraph. Oh well, why even bother to write a another paragraph... that's the only point a really wanted to make. BTW, has anyone noticed that George's double chin could double as a winter home for Harry?

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Content Whatever theater your in being an ass, I know NONE of the rest of the audience would put up with that for any more than 5 minutes before your ass was in a garbage can out back. Hopefully you'd still be alive too, but don't count on it.

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Content Well, you can go with the tried and true belief that everyone is being a smart-ass. Or you can follow the system of "those who agree with me are smart, witty, beautiful, and you can always tell when they are being snarky or sarcastic" and "those who disagree with me are boorish, uneducated trolls, who would not be able to pull of irony or sarcasm if their lives depended on it". Often times you can tell the true zealots by the number of CAPS they use in their posts. **A different game to play: Spot the anti-fantasy genre trope! Lets see, there is the basement-dwelling, virginal, ten-sided dice rolling, chess club reject, still lives with the parents, gets beaten up by athletic types, nerd, geek, peon, greasy-haired, pocket protector wearing, photophobic, reads Tolkien as if it were holy writ, thinks PJ is a cinematic god, wanker. I am sure that I have missed some. Please feel free to add to the list. As always, let us do the troll's work so that they don't have to.

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Content Jesus fella... We Brits can appreciate a film on many 'levels' and 'subtexts' and 'bullshits' as you Americans. I don't think geography has a whole lot of weight when it comes to the appreciation of cinema. Yes, many of the British film magazines are dumbed down, but they are positively cerebral compared to some of the other shite magazines we may be inclined to buy instead. In Britain there seems to be an emerging culture where stupidity and laziness seem to rule supreme, but to make sweeping statements as SK909 has is both immature and decidedly false. Why should we Brits have an alternate and invalid opinion of the prequels? Is our weather so poor that we crave the illumination of lightsabers? Our culture so diverse that we can understand the concept, will and motivation of the nemoidians? or is it all a load of bollocks? Now if we want to get into american stereotypes (of which i have absolutely no belief in, any sterotype is an extreme form of laziness and often prejudice) aren't you all stupid, fat and willing to wage war on any nation that farts in your general direction? i thought not...

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Content What can I say? I'm a Brit and I think Empire magazine is shit, the new Star Wars are shit, i don't say "'ELL" or "ARSED" or "FOOKIN'", I don't worship Michael Jackson (and the name is a reference toi something else BTW). I think that's it. Sorry for going off-topic fellas.

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Content [Spoilers] Hey, have y'all heard about the scene after Grond crashes through the gates of Minas Tirith? Apparently a legion of trolls bursts through the gates and accosts Gandalf with goofy opinions on the Matrix and quibbles about the 2 Fast 2 Furious franchise. Should make for a stellar scene...I hope it makes the Theatrical Edition.

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Content Well SK909... from your post you didn't seem like a Brit, but i'm glad there is another person in the British isles that can string a sensible sentence together about film that doesn't include the word arse... or bugger.. but hey, i still love the prequels so bugger off ;-)

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Content get fucked.

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Content Right around the time of release of the LotR films, this site turns giddy with excitement and you can sense the trolls crawling under a rock and the true movie lovers spill their hearts in print. Some of the Funniest & Best Talkbacks have been produced under agonizing movie-anticipation conditions. But its still a bit too early...

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Content "Fookin". "Arse". "Bugger". "Suez." "Bloomin". "Shag". They're so quaint. I wonder...do they have Justin Timberlake types there? Do they talk about fookin' arses, but in a fake blaccent instead? Kind of like Madonna in reverse?

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Content Some ask, "Why are there SO MANY ROTK reviews?" --- Come on, kiddies. Don't act like ignorant inner-city thug/rural bumpkin trash. The fact of the matter is that this is arguably the most anticipated movie of the last ten years. People want to know about RotK! If you don't, then you are part of a foolish yet pitiable minority. End of story.

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Content And we should give a rats ass what "conclusion" you have come to ABOUT A MOVIE YOU HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN because...why?

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Content You should HEAR the kids talk over here. "Aw, mate, I was comin out uv the Co-Op, kna'mean?? And like, BARE pigs turn up yeah? Ya get me? And like, me weeds in me sock right an' I'm sayin: "nah mate, nah mate, I ain't got nuffink on me yeah?" and they're going "fuck off right, we know you done bruk up dat bus shelter an ting, so yeah like, I HIT em yeah? YEAH mate, I hit me a policeman in the face and tore off down the road, and mate, they didn't never find me." "Safe, mate, safe...". - Oh the delightful banter of your average white British 13 year old on the way home to his leafy affluent suburb...

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Content I'm American, and I find Empire Magazine infinitely refreshing. They seem MORE able than us to appreciate American popcorn cinema for what it is: The BEST popcorn cinema the world has to offer, but nothing more. They gave four out of five to "The Phantom Menace," and that's a nice objective review I can agree with. Anyone who is angry enough to hurl epithets at Lucas for his prequel movies is simply taking the pictures WAAAY too seriously. Empire gave Soderbergh's "Ocean's 11" five stars, they gave "Attack Of The Clones" five stars. There is NO source of American movie reviews that I trust more than I do the very ENGLISH Empire magazine... They see through the ingrown fanboy bullshit and jealousy ("This is better than that!" "No, THIS is better than THAT!") and just gleefully spasm at the wonders of American goofball cinema.

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Content Talk about your sweeping generalisations! There are many Brits who think that the prequels are crap, myself included (although I have a glimmer of hope for Ep. 3). Just because some pillock takes the 'Lucas doesn't care and it's funny' stance doesn't mean that you can slag off an entire nation. Rant over. In relation to LOTR I can't wait to go home for Christmas to see TTT EE.

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Content I

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Content God, I hated going to school listening to a bunch of twats saying stuff like respec', init and booyakasha. It really isn't that hard to learn proper diction.

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Content No we don't need any more sodding reviews. not until after the weekend it opens so we can all chime in on what we thought of a movie WE HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN. these talkbacks are all wish-lists, trolling and day-dreaming, which is fun, but nothing can be added until we all see the fucking thing! now, what i really want to talk about is the undercurrent of 'the movie'll be great, but its the EE DVD that will be the real deal'. is this the death of cinema? oh, fuck it, i'll continue in the next post. i hate long posts, but this next one will be long.

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Content I predict best actor Oscar for Mr. Lee and best supporting for Brad Douriff! late.

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Content You are a disgrace to your fellow country-men!

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Content ROTK will win in all the technical categories this year, pulling off a three for three in visual effects. And I almost betting the farm that Peter Jackson has the Best Director sewn up. Best Picture, I doubt, if only because the Academy Awards honor films that have human theme, which is a character (s) who has all the odds against them, and still triumph. Of course, that's The Lord of the Rings in a nutshell. But it's fantasy, and for the mostly old white men that run the Academy, fantasy films don't register on their screens as even a dark horse to win. Right now, I see a split coming, with Jackson taking the award for director and Anthony Minghella's Cold Mountain scoring Best Picture, if only because it plays up to everything the Oscars have given awards too. Cold Mountain has an Oscar winning actress, an Oscar nominated actor, an Oscar winning director and it's a historical drama to boot with a man weathering all sorts of plights to get back to the women he loves. All things these stogy old men like in a film (I mean Shakespeare in . I was shocked when Sigourney Weaver grabbed a nomination for Aliens -the first time an actress was nominated in an action/adventure film. And I really believe Silence of the Lambs was just a bizarre mix-up. Even though the film is not fantasy, it is a grisly psychological thriller that most people at the Academy would normally shy away from. Maybe, with Denzel Washington's win last year for Training Day, we've seen a turn. Then again, it took the Academy 11 years to give a statute to another actor for playing a very evil character, so who knows. The Oscar's are conservative, when you boil it down. Change is difficult for them and despite some flukes over the 76-year history they seem to still consider fantasy films as movies to be awarded only technical stuff. I want to be wrong, kids, I really do.

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Content actually you're right about those american stereotypes. hold on.... did i just smell something coming from new jersey? KILL THE BASTARDS!!! wait.... damn it....

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Content if you just going to complain about Star Wars Comparisons/Effusive Praise/Jackson's changing of the books etc etc etc etc..good lord. Just dont click on the link off of the home page.

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Content Quote: "A lot will be said to the length of the film's ending. It is quite long. I'm not sure if we needed to see Sam getting married but it didnt bother me. Remember we are wrapping up 3 films here." If people are that fidgety about 10-15 minutes of denouement - for an 11 hour film trilogy, no less - then it's obvious why so much was cut of the back end of the book, to say nothing of the Scouring of the Shire (which would easily require a good 20-30 minutes). And clearly Peter Jackson was well aware of that danger when he made those cuts. Just the same it's a shame that we won't see more of the Faramir-Eowyn relationship and its consumation (I mean marriage, get your heads out of the gutter) in the Theatrical Version.

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Content Big ambitions fella, good to see someone with a dream and the determination to make it real. Go on, make your mother proud.

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Content 'Poo geeks'? Are you in fact Harry's notorious nephew?

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Content Apparently you've forgotten about a little thing called The Phantom Menace. STAR WARS 4LIFE NERDS!

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Content Something to note about the hoplessly blinkered diehard fans of Star Wars/The Matrix - they all rag on Lord Of The Rings. Funny. Expect this LOTR bashing to be ignored. ------- Just for the record, I love Star Wars, and really like The Matrix (despite the slightly disappointing middle chapter), but I do feel that LOTR is in a different league. Just my own opinion though.

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Content As someone who hasn't (and isn't going to) read the books, could someone please concisely explain to me and those like me what exactly is the Scouring of the Shire? I've heard it mentioned here enough to pique my interest, and realize it isn't going to be in the movie. So, what is it?

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Content David Mamet wrote an article in the English 'Guardian' stating that all cinemas would close in ten years. the movie industry will be online, or on dvd or pay-per-view or whatever. the reasons he stated were mostly about vertical integration of the mutlinational entertainment corporations, which is dead clever and all, but its a bit business-centric, so let's come at it from the fan point of view. the first i noticed of it was during the release of 'Gangs of New York'. A lot of reviews went something along the lines of 'well i didn't enjoy it but i know its a good film because i could see inside it the four hour edit that scorsese really wanted to make. i'll wait for the director's cut on DVD to make my final judgement'. Tarantino recently defended Jackie Brown with something like 'you can just dip into the DVD wherever you like and spend some time with Bridget or DeNiro or Sam'. and finally, of course, we have the LOTR EE's - with Mori seemingly hinting (and lots of TB'ers agreeing) that it is just a truncated version of the real movie that will only be complete next christmas on the EE. Now that it is relatively affordable to have home cinema systems almost as good as the average multiplexes (but with cheaper popcorn, clean toilets and a pause button), is going to the cinema now NOT seen as the definitive place to see a movie - that the only thing the cinema has going for it is that the movies are shown there FIRST? This might be the true and lasting cinematic legacy of the LOTR trilogy; that the real place to see film is on dvd at home. the cinema release may become just glorified advertising for the real movie. X-men 2 takes $100 mil in its first week on DVD, half its complete theatrical takings. that's some money there. SO, PEOPLE: is this shift really happening? if it is, is it actually a good thing? Or are these four hour epics a symptom of directors getting infinite egos and refusing to tell their precious stories in two hours? is the pause button a victory for the movie viewer, or the death of narrative cinema? of course a great movie house is irreplaceable, but they are rare, and a great cinema audience is even better, but they are even rarer. SO, is ROTK the death of the theatrical release, and does anybody care? give us a yell if you actually read this far. proof read now?...nah.

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Content lots of people think lotr is shaping up to the best of the great current fanboy trilogies, and i kind of agree, though i'll hold my judgment til i see rotk. but, while i don't like a lot of aspects of the matrix trilogy or the new star wars trilogy, i can't help but notice people in the talkbacks have a general lack of respect for the artistry that goes into them. people seem to think, "oh, it's big budget, they just threw money at it and this is what came out", but money doesn't make movies, it pays people to make movies. the time and talent that went into making every shot, visual effect, sound effect and fight scene in the star wars and matrix movies deserve at least your respect, if not deep reverence, if you consider yourself a fan of movies. and respect means not calling it a piece of shit every 2 seconds and generally taking every opportunity to bash it. sure the final implementation in terms of acting and emotional impact (etc.) could have been much better in both series, but that hardly negates all of the rest of the skill that went into them. the same goes for those of you who love to put down lotr on these boards. the sound of one bitter fanboy trying to shit on the careers of hundreds of people who know their craft many times better than him is a pathetic one.

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Content Right, just because I seem to have placed my tootsies right in it earlier, here you go: After their epic task is fulfilled and the Ring chucked into the fires of Mt. Doom, the hobbits take their sweet time heading back to the Shire, pretty much stopping for a beer at every town along the way, much like an epic Middle-Earth sized pub crawl. However, once they get back to the borders of the Shire they're stopped by guards, and finding this a bit odd, they stroll up and demand to know who's put guards on the borders, harrassing innocent travellers. The guards attempt to arrest the hobbits but with their newly found courage and bravery (hurrah!) the hobbits best them and march them into town to find their boss, Mr. S, and a character called Sharkey who's a bit of a no-good hobbit. (I THINK I'm getting this right, but its been a couple of years...) They discover the whole of the Shire is living in a police state under this duo's control, and so call a meeting, rousing the spirits of the put-upon Shire-folk to start an uprising. This is done in a bit of a skirmish, losing a few lives here and there, and at the end of it, the goodies succeed. How surprising. They then go to see this mysterious Mr. S and discover that it is none other that Saruman, who, with his silver-tongue had come to the Shire to get some form of revenge on the hobbit-folk. However, his way with words doesn't work on the four adventurers and they boot him out of the Shire, I believe. I think Wormtongue was involved too somehow, but can't remember particulary his role. Its a nice end to the story and shows how the characters have changed for the better since before their adventure, especially Merry and Pippin. And I reckon its a shame that it'll appear in no form whatsoever in the film, but I can see the problem regarding time constraints, as it'd be 45 minutes extra, I reckon, minimum. That do?

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Content ....and I agree about the future of cinema. The corporations are only responding to the needs of people. They incresingly want to stay home and watch films. As for the LOTR films being bashed: I enjoy the books and I love the films(the two thus far). If I want more character development that is lacking in the films, which still have alot, I'll re-read the books. One is Cinema while the other is literature. Two different mediums and two different sets of expectations from me, except I want to enjoy both. With LOTR, I have. Thank you PJ. :)

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Content Something to consider. With Star Wars sliding out of the public eye and proving unpopular with fantasy-craving virgins with weight problems (a demographic Lucas thankfully didn't wholly cater to second time round), Star Wars fans proclaiming the prequel's superiority is contextually relevant. On the other hand LOTR fans shouldn't have anything to prove. The films are making lots of money and are very popular. Yet they feel the need to rubbish other franchises to make LOTR look good. This occurs on an alarming scale. To be so overtly defensive without actually enjoying the product speaks volumes about the product itself. These films are glossy and superficial. They won't survive in the way people are hoping.

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Content Golum Rules, OLIPHANTS RULE!!!

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Content This movie will own Matrix's/Star Wars/X-Men's/Insert unrelated franchise which can be equally enjoyable here's ASS!

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Content tolkien wrote all that in a time when novels were the primary medium and stories didn't have to be all ACTION-PACKED EDGE OF YOUR SEAT ARE YOU READY FOR THIS!?!?!?!? - like. sure it brought one of the most important themes of the books to an head, but i'm glad i don't half to sit through that at a movie theater.

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Content This movie will own Matrix's/Star Wars/X-Men's/Insert unrelated franchise which can be equally enjoyable here's ASS!

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Content Hopefully I can be a bit of fresh air for you: I'm English & I can't stand Michael Jackson, and Episode 1 was disappointing. Bollocks, arse and bugger. Bloody hell. And all that.

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Content No time for flames, Dr. Clones! ;)

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Content and what we don't tolerate are idiots like you.

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Content And don't forget, you still haven't seen the movie.

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Content whoa buddy, calm down. ;)

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Content Something to consider. With Star Wars sliding in quality and proving unpopular with all but the most rabid of fans (a demographic Lucas thanks the Lord is still disturbingly large), Star Wars fans proclaiming the prequel's superiority is a sign of blinkered denial. On the other hand LOTR fans don't have anything to prove. The films are making lots of money and are very popular. Yet some idiots feel the need to rubbish other franchises to make LOTR look good. This occurs on an alarming scale. To be so blinkered as to believe that enjoying the exellent LOTR gives you licence to rag on those unfortunates who prefer lesser franchises speaks volumes about the sad state of movie fandom. These films are majestic and moving. Whether they remain the flavour of the month for the great unwashed does not concern those of us who appreciate their quality, and will own the DVD's for the rest of our lives. ------------ I didn't find it easy to rag on Star Wars there. I'm enjoying this little sparring match but let no-one believe I dislike Star Wars, even if the films are not all of the highest quality. As I was trying to insinuate within the constricting framework of re-phrasing Indiana Clones words, I like Star Wars, LOTR, The MAtrix and many other genre films, what I DISLIKE are those who feel the need to turn film franchise fandom into some asinine competition or gang-warfare.

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Content tolkien always had a way of emphasizing the value of courage and intelligence in battle in his books, which pj masterfully translated to the big screen. in the books the tide of the battle usually followed right behind the tide of the morale, and characters were considered much more dangerous when they could affect the morale of their troops or the enemy's than when they could do cool tricks like riding down stairs on shields. whatever, i feel like a lonely fanboy now, i shouldn't have posted there. but the point is i was scared for the humans in TTT, and if pj managed that, fuck the technicalities.

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Content tolkien always had a way of emphasizing the value of courage and intelligence in battle in his books, which pj masterfully translated to the big screen. in the books the tide of the battle usually followed right behind the tide of the morale, and characters were considered much more dangerous when they could affect the morale of their troops or the enemy's than when they could do cool tricks like riding down stairs on shields. whatever, i feel like a lonely fanboy now, i shouldn't have posted there. but the point is i was scared for the humans in TTT, and if pj managed that, fuck the technicalities.

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Content The Scouring of the Shire, corrections: The Hobbit controlling the Shire (supposedly, though he was now just an imprisoned puppet) was known as the 'Chief', and was actually Lotho Sackville-Baggins, a relative of Frodo and Bilbo. The mysterious 'Sharkey', who was really in power, turned out to be Saruman (Sharkey was what his Orcish servants referred to hims as, derived from 'Sharku' : 'Boss'). After the battle was won, Frodo made the Hobbits have mercy on Saruman, even after Saruman then tried to stab Frodo out of spite. He was leaving the Shire, and shouting for his lapdog Wormtongue, who he kicked and mistreated. Wormtongue finally snapped and slit Saruman's throat, and was shot by a bow-wielding Hobbit in the act of running away. A wisp of Saruman's spirit rose and looked hopefully into the West, from where the Valar or Powers had sent him on his failed mission to oppose Sauron, but a breeze sprung up from the West and he dissipated into nothing.

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Content Well thought-out, Trinity. I have to say that I prefer my cinema at home, for all the reasons you cite - cheaper popcorn, clean bathrooms, and a pause button. Plus my wife can give me a handjob while we watch the movie without fear of some overweight fanboy trying to catch a peek at her velvet grip around my johnson. The worst part of going to theaters for movies, for me, is the stupid annoying children (and adults acting like children) who must add their own running commentary in loud voices. Although I must admit it can be satisfying to tell them to shut the hell up. Now, can someone please tell me what exactly is the Scouring of the Shire? I haven't read the books. I must know what I am missing.

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Content Unfortunately, there's no way to tell you what the Scouring is without giving away the ending of RotK. So you have two choices: 1) Wait two weeks, then ask again. 2) Read the summary of Chapter 8 here - http://www.gradesaver.com/ClassicNotes/Titles/return/summ4.html - I HIGHLY recommend you do the first. You've made it this far, surely you can hold out two more weeks to find out the end straight from PJ.

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Content Something to consider. With Star Wars sliding in quality and proving unpopular with all but the most rabid of fans (a demographic Lucas thanks the Lord is still disturbingly large), Star Wars fans proclaiming the prequel's superiority is a sign of blinkered denial. On the other hand LOTR fans don't have anything to prove. The films are making lots of money and are very popular. Yet some idiots feel the need to rubbish other franchises to make LOTR look good. This occurs on an alarming scale. To be so blinkered as to believe that enjoying the exellent LOTR gives you licence to rag on those unfortunates who prefer lesser franchises speaks volumes about the sad state of movie fandom. These films are majestic and moving. Whether they remain the flavour of the month for the great unwashed does not concern those of us who appreciate their quality, and will own the DVD's for the rest of our lives. ------------ I didn't find it easy to rag on Star Wars there. I'm enjoying this little sparring match but let no-one believe I dislike Star Wars, even if the films are not all of the highest quality. As I was trying to insinuate within the constricting framework of re-phrasing Indiana Clones words, I like Star Wars, LOTR, The MAtrix and many other genre films, what I DISLIKE are those who feel the need to turn film franchise fandom into some asinine competition or gang-warfare.

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Content Read Louis Cyphre's spoily-spoily-spoiler post somewhere above yours. Much as Mr Cyphre likes to troll (hi, Louis!), his summary of the Scouring is pretty spot-on, even if it is a tad, well, irreverent. **** Oh, and Bean, I'm still waiting for your soundtrack gushing over on the Frosty talkback... if you're done discussing evolution and all, that is.

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Content But my HT set-up is a fully calibrated systembut still doesn't compare to a PJ specified movie screen or is THX Compliant. For that reason I go to the cinema on Super Tuesday when all tickets are half price NZ$5 which = US$3 or under 2 quid in England.

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Content All these trilogies ending soon marks the end of an important era in movie going. 1999-2005 An era of popcorn flicks that single handedly sat on your face oped ass'd without the respect to at least plug X (ruffie for ya older fu*kers) up your who-ha first before being fisted all these films (sequels, trilogies, quadilogies, etc) that have been placed on an ungodly high pedistal by us fans spoilering, speculating, and ejaulating out reviews so unclear that finding Elivis and Jimmy Hoffa chillin next to your G-spot havin a coke and a smile.. is more likely entertaining. And yes... I always come here to the talkbacks as my meds wear off. :)

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Content I definitely fit into the 'prefer to watch the dvd' catagory (I only see about 2 movies a year in the theatre now, if that). It is sad that if this trend is wide enough the theatres will die but I imagine flying first class in a blimp was pretty spectacular unfortunatly times move on. I think a possible side effect may be that Imax theatres will become more common to fill the void (as great as home viewing has become it'll be a while before anything aproaching that kind of theatre experience will be possible at home). Maybe studios will move to Imax format to become competative again ... well, i can dream can't I? btw, the scouring of the shire is when the hobbits return home they find its been overrun by thugs led by sauraman (aka: sharky) and they go about dispatching them and returning their home to normality. It's obviously much more complex than that but I recommend reading the books for the details, it's good stuff. Once you read them you'll get the whole picture and it will also become clear why so much is left out, almost half of the book is spent ending the seiries many threads. I love how tolkein does it but it's literally impossible to film, an entire movie could be made just out of the scouring of the shire.

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Content now now now now now. I hate waiting for this movie. But I really cannot fathom how cutting out Sarumon works in ANY way...the entire second movie was built around him as the bad guy, and they never wrap it up??? Ah, well, I put my trust in PJ. www.unseenfilms.com

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Content it is foolish for people to begin arguments over which is a superior series of films, the exciting and inventive Star Wars films, or the tired, bloated, poorly acted, childishly received by fandom (also known as "professional shut-ins") LOTR films. it really should stop. maybe after ROTK bombs at the Oscars in March, and the nerd herd begin their quiet trek back to the comforts of the basement, where the joys of online pornography and talkback sites such as this receive them with open arms, will they be able to cry themselves to sleep at the fact that........(ahem) not once has a LOTR film won a major category at the Academy awards, AND, not once has a LOTR film been the highest grossing film (domestically. and after all, that is all that really matters. the rest of the world is just a shithole of unclean French types, and weirdos who wear turbans). ROTK will NOT outgross Finding Nemo. LOTR will ALWAYS, i repeat ALWAYS be "second place". got that, jackass?

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Content BCfreeB, He got his ass kicked by the Ents ... I thought that wrapped him up fairly well, introducing him again (unless the whole scouring of the shire were included) seems kinda pointless to me.

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Content and when ROTK DOES win at the oscars, what will you say? oh, yeah, well, ummmmm, it didn't win as much as titanic, right? so it sucks right? and then you'll giggle yourself into a fit I s'pose.

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Content They aren't. They're shit. People from Yorkshire are pricks.

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Content Star Wars is famous for having an infantile fanbase. LOTR has people like Christopher Lee, and tens of millions of others, that have the maturity to read a 1,100 page novel filled with difficult words and challenging images. Star Wars fans stare at a movie or TV screen. ***And are you actually comparing the acting in the LOTR movies to that of the Star wars films? And by that, I mean all 5 Star Wars films. Please, don't go there. Take you Ewok fuckpuppet and ram it up your Jawa-with-vinyl-Cape-Still-on-card ASS!

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Content Lots of little people running around touching and giggling and going to bed. It's very charming and sweet. I love you all! I am innocent! Btw, did you all happen to find the Easter Egg on FotR where Lurtz and Galadriel had sex? It was hot!

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Content That Chief Chirpa was hot! Is he one of the Tooks?

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Content if/never ROTK wins any "prestige" awards at the Oscars, i'll give as much of a shit as when Fellowship (the only deserving film of the series) didn't. how's that? it is funny how "fans" of such series (SW, LOTR, Trek, Matrix, whatever other dogshit you want to bring to the table) are so insecure that they genuinely get "agitated" by a voice of dissention. its the proof that you guys just can't grow up and have a real life. period. how "worried" do you really think Peter Jackson, or Lucas is about what the masses think of their work. they do the movies, and move on to other endeavors. people like you feel some half assed need to "defend" the film, as though it's a conscious being whose "feelings" will be hurt if someone declares that it "sucks". however, such behaviour serves to amuse the other side of the coin, that being people such as me, who hate everything and wishes the human race would end. good day.

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Content ouch. wow, kid. ya got me there.

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Content Christopher Lee is in both series, moron. and yeah, the acting in the LOTR films blows. get over it.

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Content Yawn! Why dont you just ask why did the chicken cross the road..But the joke is on you do you see that you are on a movie site spending you too cool for school time reg on the site then trying to come up with a put down for film geeks..Wow a whole two hours wasted in your pathetic lives

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Content But I gotta ask, is it really Spoilers when the books have been out for more than 50 years? Just curious what people think...

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Content Hmm, I'll not get drawn into this too badly, since you've admitted yourself that you speak a load of shit most of the time, but first off, why the hell should I give a damn what the Oscars, or box office, or you or anyone else say about the films? I don't. The way I see it, I rejoice when others agree with me, and shrug my shoulders when they don't. When they needlessly insult me, I sigh at their pathetic spite. ------ Elaine, sorry about that, will be right there. :) Although I must confess I'm still banging on about evolution on the other TB.

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Content ... and buddy, there has been some stooopid shit posted on these boards over the years. *** Still flailing away there I see Grimmypoo. You can give it a rest now dear, I aknowledged you. Don't forget to take your meds sweetie.

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Content is apparently the official runtime for ROTK. Jesus Christ i cannot wait for the 17th. then, finally i can witness the finish to the "greatest trilogy in movie history!"................BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! no, no way, it just doesnt sound right, even when i'm kidding about it.

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Content Isn't it amazing trolls like Indiana Clones and Grimloch will still be watching ROTK in the theater after seeing the first two movies just to see "how bad it is". "These films are glossy and superficial. They won't survive in the way people are hoping." - exactly what we all thought of the Matrix and SW prequel films. And they won't survive years from now. SW and ESB will continue to be admired with now everyone knowing it was Kasdan and Kershner behind ESB with Lucas making us endure 20 year effort in trying to show us he was as brilliant as Kershner. ROTJ,PM,AOTC, EPIII,MR,MRev,ID4,Godzilla,BttEarth, JPII etc. will be representative of the trend of low quality toilet offerings based on ticket sales started by Ewokked commercialization of ROTJ. What makes the event of ROTK so relevant is that finally a major trilogy shows that audiences can demand and get more from modernized epics, cgi and all. The WB's, Devlin and Emmerich, Lucas, Michael Bay can no longer get away with glossy turds like ID4 and AOTC.

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Content ...just post and let me know if the e-mail addy assigned to your posting handle is valid. If so, and if you're sure you want to know (because it does contain spoilers), I'll e-mail you with a breif explanation of the Scouring of the Shire (**SPOILER**Hint: Saruman plays a major part.) ** Oh yeah, since we'll see Sam and Rosy wed, I'm betting a six pack of Modela Negra that the last line of the movie IS "Well Rosy, I'm back." Of course, Elanor-lass will then crawl up onto his lap. Hope so anyway...namarie mellyn{[:^)

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Content You are simply too much fun. I love it. Guess you missed the post wherein I mentioned that LOTR talkbacks always bring out the whole cadre of anti-fantasy tropes. You, wonderful creature, are the proof of my theory. Its ok, your Mom still loves you, even though you are trying to show your folks to be your own person by attempting to tear down people on an internet talkback. Such nerve. Such courage. Ah, that all could be just like you, forever dreaming of the day when they get the promotion to become chief fry guy at the local Burger King. Gotta reach for the brass ring, young man, some day you will acheieve all that you desire. Someday. Someday you will become manager of the Burger King, and even more people will want to be just like you. So please, please, please, unleash your creativity, wit, and charm on me once again. Blast away at the heathens on this talkback. You know you want to. You want to make sure that some complete stranger thinks something special about you. We love you and your kind, although its more pity then love. You know what that is like, it is a feeling that you create in most who meet you. Pity, that desire to want to help the poor bastard because he really has nothing else in his life that has any meaning whatsoever. Pity, the only real emotion that anyone can muster for you and all that you hold dear. I am getting teary just thinking about your life. I trust that the rest of the folks on the talkback will join me in providing further avenues for your responses. Its all you have in this life. Give him a hand everyone, give him something to live for.

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Content If you'd actually read my posts (excluding the bits that were meant as a joke, turning Indiana Clones arrogant declarations around on him), I have nothing against anyone who doesn't like LOTR. Not a thing. Many of my friends are not fans. What I take exception to are the mouthings of offensice idiots like yourself. Whilst I dislike rudeness and insulting behaviour from ignorant little twerps, the actual cliched content of your insults (D & D players? Are you even trying?) instills in me nothing but amusement at your expense. It's very funny when people embarrass themselves in public. :)

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Content I want to see Merry and Pippin being laid to rest next to Aragorn. I want to see Legolas and Gimli sailing to Valinor. I want to see "Coming in 2010/2011/2012/2013/2014/2015 - The Silmarillion".

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Content I look foreward to seeing your ass ejected from the movie theater after mall security blasts you with mace and pepper spray. Good luck. As for those who still don't got the balls, I once again dare anyone ot try to find me and physically stop me from seeing this film. TRY AND CATCH ME, BIAAAATCH!!!

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Content the cardboard standees of Legolas and Gimli that inhabit your living room and kitchen do not count as "friends". you will need to rethink your comments.

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Content "But now that I see him, I do pity him." You're right Hildebrand, I shouldn't laugh at the poor fellas public self destruction, that's just cruel. Not being able to offer anything constructive or well-thought out to a discussion is unfortunate, but not even being able to effectively INSULT someone in one..... Do you think we should we should pretend his words really stung, just to give him back a bit of dignity?

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Content These movies have spoiled me!!! If only I didn't believe in karma, but I do. I have a feeling that after December 17th I'm going to have to help a lot of old ladies across the street. On the subject of LOTR vs. Star Wars... How's this for a franchise? Get Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, one of the hobbits and maybe Treebeard, and definitely Eowyn, and pit them against Obi Wan, Anakin, Yoda, Padme, Chewbacca and the droids. Middle-earth revealed as the dark side of Endor!!! Our franchise heroes must battle for control of the planet before the Empire closes in!!! Paul WS Anderson to direct, or maybe McG.

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Content I wouldn't know where to buy them from, unfortunately. So I'll just have to stick to finding real people to hang around with, people who are actually pleasant to be around and who are quite happy to converse with others without feeling the need to demean them them or try and provoke them for some pathetic and spiteful gratification. Since I'm always on the lookout for new friends, do YOU know anyone like that Mister Grimloch? Aside from your good self, of course. :)

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Content that was genuinely good. i salute you. i needed a good laugh today, and your reply was perfect. "aside from your good self". loved it. ok, only two weeks left until i officially can bitch and whine.

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Content Sometimes you simply need to give them what they want. Because the last thing I want on my conscience is that GGGadsooxxss would go and over-cooke someone's value meal at Burger King in a fit of pique, due to the lack of respect he gets from total strangers on the internet. So, yep, fellow tailenders and other assorted roustabouts on this talkback, give gadsooqs some love, you know, rip him a little, tell him exactly what you think about his incisive commentary on the state of geeks and ren-fair types. (Go with me folks, some people can only operate in stereotypes, so we might as well play along.) Say a few bad words about some other movie franchise. Here is a good example just in case: (Ahem) The prequels exist only to pad George Luca$'s pockets. He hates the fans of his own movies, and therefore he knowingly made two wretched films in the hope that these sad-sacks may finally realize that they need to put down their plastic light-sabers and visit a little thing called the real world. There you go, something like that, or some other useless bit of fluff directed at another franchise. Just make sure its sophmoric, insulting, and completely lacking of anything like a constructive point or argument. Have at it!!!

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Content Scouring of the Shire is the perfect example of how to end a story, what gives fully sense to the LOTR book, and what rips PJ

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Content Do they have a non-geek employment policy or something? Where does the average geek work, then? Still, better to be arguing over fast food franchises than movie trilogies... For the record, I found a maggot in my KFC burger a few months ago. Complete the following sentence: if the LOTR/Star Wars/Matrix trilogy was a fast food franchise, it would be...

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Content I keep seeing these talkback forums that just seem to be nothing but Star Wars sucks or Lord of the Ring sucks or they rule alternatively. I liked the new Star Wars films. I wasn't real impressed with the Fellowship movie but liked the second well enough. I decided after seeing someone's comment on the lack of popularity of Star Wars to check on that using IMDB. The US gross for The Phantom Menace was 431,065,044, Fellowship of the Ring was 313,364,114, Attack of the Clones was 310,675,583, and The Two Towers 339,734,454. As you can see all four movies were popular. It's stupid to argue over what you like as opposed to someone elses opinion. I never understood that. You like what want, that is fine but to trash something you don't like and say it's not popular because like it is silly. They are just movies they won't cure cancer or aids, or provide a safe alternative to oil, or stop war. I always have believed movies are a great 2 or 3 hour escape but thats it.

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Content There once was a poster called Grimloch * on the talk backs he'd dribble his schlock * without any grace * an obvious case * of a man with a very small cock.

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Content if they do make the hobbit, it will not be as good as lotr. it was probably the weakest of all of tolkien's books. I will hope for some continuity: like McKellen as Gandalf and Serkis as Gollum.

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Content Could be a product placement opportunity there: "We've had nothing to eat but maggoty KFC for three stinkin' days!"

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Content Is it me or does it seem likely The Hobbit will get made now?

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Content There once was a poster called GadZookss * all his posts we're just feeble rebukes * devoid of all class * he'd speak out his ass * we seem doomed to endure these kooks.

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Content If you yell at the screen that I am watching, you will forever be remembered as the guy who got choked out and woke up with his pants around his ankles and a uncomfortable yet familiar sensation in his rectum. Sadly, this is probably only encouraging you to yell at the screen my poopy friend.

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Content I don't have the patience to sift through this long ass talkback,so if this is in here already,excuse the hell outta me.Whether you think Jackson directing The Hobbit is a great or shitty idea,it's being discussed.Check it for yourself: http://derhobbit-film.de/indexengl.shtml

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Content ... nice handle by the wa...HAHAHAHA. I knew I couldn't pay that 'compliment' and keep a straight face! And we wonder why the rest of the world thinks we're [Americans] a bunch of ignorant, boorish, uncultured nincompoops, when we let prodigy's like Smurf boy have computers...

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Content .... erm, is any of this getting through Mr. Grim?

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Content Our love of the halflings' leaf has clearly slowed our minds... This is the most ridiculous talkback I've read. It seems so silly. I think the anticipation of the movie and the slow torture of only having spoilers and other people's experiences to be smart "arses" about is making us all a bit giddy. I saw that the NZ newspaper critics were forbidden to comment on the movie until next week. If this talkback is any indication of the affects of spoilers on the minds of those already half-mad with anticipation...then I think postponing such information to maintain sanity of fans everywhere may be the COMPASSIONATE thing to do. See you at the theaters! I expect to see RotK many, many times!

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Content I loved the FOTR and thought it was a more faithful adaptation of the book than the Two Towers was. Having said that, I still loved the Two Towers. At this point, I trust Peter Jackson enough to present a film that is faithful to the spirit of the novels that I am going to love. also, check out this link- ttp://www.geocities.com/gfollower/

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Content And the movie turned out to be a piece of shit. So, lets not hype up RotK so goddamn much.

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Content This may be a potential spoiler for anyone who has not read the books (if the scene is included in the movie)............but I don't think that the "real" final battle made it to the movie....from everything I've read,it sounds as if the battle at the Black Gates of Mordor, probably the best part of the book, has removed from the movie and combined into the battle of Minas Tirith....which would be a disappointment, because again, it would probably be the best visual scene in the whole movie, and its a pivotal, and concluding, point in the War. I really hope it makes it into the movie....and yeah this whole trilogy owns. If it doesn't get some awards, a) who cares....and b) we'll all know something is fucked up with the Oscar committee

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Content I will be shocked if LOTR won best picture, or if Jackson got best director. The Academy hates to give it to people outside the system. Jackson, as I have repeatedly argued, has extended the art of filmmaking with this trilogy. People will look back on it as they look back on Star Wars (1977 Star Wars that is) now. It is a landmark, and McKellan deserves a statue for his work, but the Academy sucks, and they always find reasons to give the awards to the wrong movies. When Jackson and McKellan get snubbed, they will be in good company. Hitchcock never won an Oscar, David Lynch doesn't have one, and I think they managed to never give one to Cary Grant. 20 years from now, there will still be interest in this trilogy, and whatever does win this year will likely be forgotten. When "The Elephant Man" lost in 1980, Mel Brooks said something like "Noone will even remember 'Ordinary People' (the film that did win) in 20 years." He was right. The fact that a supremely mediocre movie like Titanic is both one of the highest grossing and one of the most nominated films ever shows how bad the state of movies is now, and is part of the reason why people would rather stay home than go to the theaters. With the advent of TV many people predicited the demise of movies. The result was the rebirth of the epic in the early 60s. 70mm spectacle made people want to come see movies on the big screen, now there is little reason to (LOTR is a huge exception). Giving awards to movies like Titanic and a Beautiful Mind, and directors like Ron "Opie-Cunningham" Howard doesn't help either.

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Content Yeah, that's my email address. I'd appreciate anything, don't mind spoilers. BTW, Negra Modelo is a damn fine beverage.

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Content ditto

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Content After seeing FotR, I decided I was no longer going to settle for for anything less than excellence. For soooo long I have drowned in H'wood fare the likes of MAGNOLIA, FAST AND THE FURIOUS, Tim Burton's BATMAN, STARSHIP TROOPERS, ROBOCOP, Sam Raimi's SPIDER-MAN, CORKY ROMANO, AUSTIN POWERS, and the gawd-awful DAREDEVIL. These production companies and studios who crank out crap over and over again, then pat themselves on the back for a job well done, won't get my money ever again. I've had it. Jackson feels like the last hope for the film industry. Lucas and Spielberg are sadly at the end of their tether. I haven't cared about films so much as I have with LORD OF THE RINGS. Finally, characters and plots that make me smile, laugh, and weep. Finally, a filmmaker who knows how to command the magic of film. Now that RotK is on the horizon, I am haunted with sensations of fear and jubilation. I don't want the tale to end, I don't want my December, 2004 void of Jackson's storytelling, his vision, his power. But I am rejoicing in the coming weeks of Aragorn's return to his rightful station. 2003 has been a dirty road plagued with chuckholes. So far X2, LOST IN TRANSLATION, and MASTER AND COMMANDER have proven the year's only worthy entries. No doubt, RotK will be my forth. I dearly hope Jackson will take up the bounty once more and bring THE HOBBIT to the screen. Regarless, I will no longer accept mediocrity. I'm 18 years old. I'm H'wood's ideal "market category". Wanna make me come to the theatre more often? Stop making crap. Stop patronizing us with you 7UP, green-sheen, hyperrealistic, pappy bull. All hail to the fantasy genre, ladies and gents. May it's light never waver.

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Content ...HeyZeus H. Crust - you should all shut up, kneel on your flabby 'caps and thank whatever god you pray to that you've GOT movies like LOTR, Harry Potter 1-whatever, Matrix 1-3 and the Star Wars prequels - none of them are outright shit, most of them are quality films and a few of them are outright brilliant - they'll be considered THIS generation's Star Wars. Believe me, you peckerheads'd be watching your pencil-sized cocks explode if you suffered through the mid to late 80s and what THOSE YEARS offered in terms of quality sci-fi/fantasy films. Jackson, Lucas, Wachowskis, etc. keep raising the bar - and watching one another while they do it - which forces this incredible amount of competition and (by and large) quality sci-fi/fantasy filmmaking.

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Content Don't you people get it? Trolls are like neglected children dying for attention ... good or bad, it doesn't matter, they just want to be regognized. It's amazing how fast their rantings dissappear when no one responds to them. Jesus it's obvious! I don't blame the trolls anymore than those sad little kids, it's the idiots who dignify their 'pleas for attention' with a response that really magnify the problem. If you want to coddle the disadvantaged go volunteer at a shelter.

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Content I love this. Skip past the spoiler-ridden review, head straight to the Talkback Freaks, Geeks, and Misanthropes Bloodbath. Clones, I told in the last TB you're not accomplishing a damn thing except showing us how little you have to do with YOUR life (and that you're Mommy's Little Tax Write-Off). You seem to be morbidly obsessed with the hobbies, sex-lives, and body sizes of others. Hmmm... Is the FBI on to this perv, guys? You don't speak for anyone, numbnuts! I happen to like Star Wars and The Matrix as well, and quite frankly, just don't see what they have to do with anything. Like 'em? Good for you! Have a cookie. You've now officially joined the ranks of the "dorks" you hate so much. How's it feel, Scooter? People like you make me ashamed to be a movie fan. If you can't try to dazzle us with gems of knowledge about what you consider cutting-edge film, you'll baffle us with nuggets like "These movies are shit. You guys are pansies" Heh. All the linguistics experts at this site, and I bet not a one of 'em could get through to you. Eech. Look everybody, it's Mr. Rimjob! Congratulate him on his hard work. This latest effort at typing is his best yet! Man, your daddy shoulda shot in a cup and threw it out the window.

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Content Someone posted this link earlier. Has a very uplifting review: http://www.exisle.net/mb/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=10099& "OVERALL: In the final analysis, THE RETURN OF THE KING is easily the best of the three films. And with this, it marks the LORD OF THE RINGS saga as a crowning achievement in genre film-making. George Lucas would do well to take some lessons from Peter Jackson, and remember that heroics are measured not in pixels and frames per second, but in deeds, honor and sacrifice. Bring on KING KONG, I say... and if the sly indications from this film are what I think they are, bring on THE HOBBIT.Final rating: **** (out of 4)" The rest of it has some spoilers.

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Content I've managed to live without seeing TTT so far. I don't think ROTK is going to sway me.

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Content This is what i'm talking about. You're ultra-defensively pulling SW down to the level of Godzilla, BE and Michael Bay movies (which is stretching the fucking imagination no matter how you look at it) just to make the gay hobbit movies look good. It's deluded and peurile.

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Content The universal mantra of the paranoid LOTR apologist: The LOTR films are only "good" because Star Wars films "suck".

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Content Some of you idiots getting into these Star Wars, or Matrix, or Lord of the Rings flamewars should just take a month or two off, rent Scorsese, rent Spielberg, rent Billy Wilder- just go and watch some non-franchise films and then come back with some kind of perspective as to what people have enjoyed in the past, because you know what? Nobody nailed it down, but a lot of people have hit the target, and you have to get into some habit-forming relationship with some franchise, you can go out there and truly appreciate what people think is so special about the films they watch.

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Content ? j/k been overlong

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Content I agree with you in both cases.

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Content Is anybody else as disturbed and disappointed as I am by the marketing for this film? My TV blazes with the notion that to truly experience the epic that is ROTK, I need to get a bucket of chicken emblazoned with Aragorn's sullen face. Today I saw a new tie in with Verizon cell phones. Pizza Hut, KFC, Verizon...they just don't seem to be a good fit with this movie. I find these ads actually mildly offensive. It cheapens the film somehow. I don't remember these kinds of tie-ins with TTT and FOTR. Am I wrong?

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Content It is a matter if you are choosing the right subject matter for your movie that will appeal enough to the oscar committee. In other words: You have to become a whore willing to swallow. Scripts dressed in periodic clothing preferably with a 21st American moral and written by Ron Howard.

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Content Listen very carefully as a "brit" I find your comments very worrying as a kid growing up in the 70's and 80's Lucas was the king who can argue but even empire has moved on they did a reported on the matrix while every one Elise was getting wet about the phantom menace which as a life long starwars fan I think is and all ways will be crap for sure in the 70's and 80's it would have been a cool but we have moved on so I don't care what Lucas pull's out of the bag it will not compare to what Peter Jackson has achieved he has and I think if you read empire they agree created the same buzz as Lucas did with the original trilogy---- so don't bad mouth us brit's

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Content If that is true HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU CONDEMN BOTH IT AND THE WHOLE LOTR SERIES????? I mean we all know that a film like Legally Blond 7 would suck elephant cock without ever having seen it, but if a series of films such as LOTR which has received such universal acclaim on an almost unprecedented level, HOW CAN YOU JUDGE IT BEFORE EVEN SEE IT????? Answer

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Content Additionally, if anyone here is actually trying to CRITICISE LOTR by mentioning the fact that it's name is plastered all over fast food, and toys etc, then you really do all need a good kicking!!! For crying out loud, did you all somehow miss seeing the exact same thing happen with the Matrix, Star Wars, Xmen, Hulk, etc??? Their names/logos were embezzled on every goddamn thing money could buy!! While I do admit that it is unfortunate that it happens (blame capitalism, greed and the gullibility of the fools taken in by these ads and then proceed to buy the crap), cos I also think it can harm the films image, BUT every blockbuster that can be seen by under 18's are BOUND to have all the usual 'sponsors' and other franchised crap, be it Burger King or whatever. Its been going on forever people!!!! It is not a new thing that just happened cos of LOTR's popularity!!!

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Content Every Tolkien geek on the planet KNOWS Aragorn will only suck down a pint of Old Meneltarma at a days end. Fookin' trollers!! Heh, jist messin' wif ya Johnny...that was some funny shit {[:^)

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Content Really, it is! Stock up on the tissues folks...hurricane Return is a comin'!

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Content Dances with wolves beat Goodfellas..Nuff Said..The Oscars are nothing more than a joke. PJ should not lose one bit of sleep if it does not get Best Picture. All the oscars are is who lobbys and shmoozes the most gets the award..Not for witch is the best picture of the year. Its basicly an award for kissing the most ass. Oh sure there are exeptions when the rest of the noms are weak and it will be exposed for a total fruad. So they gotta give it to the Best whatever..I dont care if it does not win it..I know it will Rule..You know it will Rule..It will make a ton of money and live on for generations.Oh and Trolls and Haters..Got your money saved up? beacuse you know your gonna spend it on one ticket for return of the king..Maby even twice. Losers.

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Content He has to! The possessed statues outside the Tower are such a great moment in the book! And Frodos captured clothes and possesions have to be shown outside the Black Gate to make our heroes think that Frodo may have failed! I really hope this is in there...

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Content If it does win i will dance a happy dance and look out the window for a blue moon when the acadmy gets it right..But im sure by Feburay-March we will see a massive PR blitz from Marimax or another studios trying to whore its film on Oscar voters and the public.

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Content God save the Queen. MW

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Content There is nothing ulta-defensive about lumping the prequels in with Godzilla. Actually, it overrates the prequels to do so. Godzilla was dull, and a wasted opportunity, and somewhat lifeless. Whereas TPM is simply and utterly unwatchable, and AOTC is nails-on-the-blackboard bad whenever Hayden or Natalie is on the screen, which is naturally about 75% of the movie. I think you underestimate just how horrible the prequels ARE.

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Content Wont be too long now till im queing at the cinema waiting to reserve my seats for ROTK when comes out on the 17th, this films gonna rule, saruman or no saruman as long as frodo gollum and sam and shelob there its gonna be bad ass. Sure this is the last film in the LOTR trilogy but this films hype is gonna come down until the release of the special extended edition late 2004. I am getting that dvd. But what after that? Have fantasy films tasted their moment of success and we go back to the predictable hero slays dragon, hero gets girl routine? NO! I dont think we've seen the last of middle earth im holding out for a movie version of The Hobbit hopefully directed by Peter Jackson and starring Ian Mckellena as Gandalf, Andy Serkis back as Gollum and Ian Holm as bilbo. The Hobbit is the perfect book to turn into film its got evrything trolls being turned to stone, dragon guarding treasure, a morphing man, orcs, goblins the lot. Maybe Harry will be reviewing this film in few yrs, coz PJ starting on King Kong and he is the only man for the job of Dir of The Hobbit. Thats all i have to say soz for the long ting. Safe

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Content Two weeks (efe) until LotR:RotK!!!!!!!!! ***(efe) indeed! efe = except for elanor, whose e-mailed review I, like morGoth, have just read. Way to go e! I raise a BK Gandalf goblet full of Florida orange juice to you (and if Harry should post your review, I shall salute you there as well). ***And now I shall prepare for a massive TATOW that will most assuredly come -- if not today, then soon. So take it away Alfalfa: "With a ping an a pong the fiddle-strings broke! / the cow jumped over the Moon, / And the little dog laughed to see such fun, / And the Saturday dish went off at a run / with the silver Sunday spoon."

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Content hulk hogan is actually in this film. if you look closely during the first battle in the background you can see the hulkster giving the big leg to several orcs as well as mean gene aukerland

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Content ... will get a boner just reading this review. Middle Earth geeks around the world... unite!

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Content IS MTVS VOLCANO HIGH A HIP HOP DUBBED BATTLE ROYALE?

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Content Because i've seen the trailers and they look exactly the same as the first one. And i hated the first one.

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Content HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! You have to be joking????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Please tell me you are joking????? Please.....please....please.... tell me you are joking???? Before I might've respected youre opinion though I didnt agree with you....but now..... now mate, you have ZERO respect from me!!!! NEXT.....

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Content oops, thats what the subject shouldve read....oh well, we're not all perfect after all. ROLL ON DECEMBER 17th!!!

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Content well, TTT was way worse than FOTR, so he does have a bit of a leg to stand on, there.

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Content How does one get a hold of such a review? For I would be most interested in reading Elanor's thoughts on ROTK.

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Content Even if it was 'way worse', which is wasnt, he still wouldnt have a leg to stand on cos he HASNT seen it!! Hos opinion means nothing to me

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Content dearnobody: you may keep your opinion of Mr. Spielberg who is, indeed a wonderfully talented director who has entertained me and brought me to tears over and over. But discounting Peter Jackson's achievement is short-sighted of you. Adapting this gigantic, "unfilmable" work as he has is nothing to be belittled. Adapting it as beautifully and majestically as he has is something to be praised to the heavens. One thing Peter Jackson manages to do in all three films, including the last and best (which I saw last night, praise Iluvatar!) is avoid sentimentality; something Mr. Spielberg, in my opinion, has consistently not done. ***cloudrider: I can't help but suggest to you, based on all your written comments, to pick up a copy of Fellowship and try reading it. The Hobbit is a very different book from the LOTR. It was written for children and contains much whimsy. LOTR is altogether different, written for adults. It is an epic "historical" myth. This is the part that PJ has captured so well and what you seem to be responding to. I have never read any other "fantasy" book and I doubt I ever will. And yes, there IS a "higher power" at work in Middle Earth, but you are right that it should not strike you as "obvious". Tolkien created five wizards in all but two are only named and he never published stories about them. Radagast, the Brown Wizard, is a character in Fellowship. Read them. I think you'll be surprised how much you like them.

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Content Oh, my. Well, Indianaclones, you have taken the proverbial cake with your admission that you base your critique on the trailers, good work. Were the Cliff's Notes on War and Peace riveting? Did you read the latest bit of the news from Reader's Digest? Did you read the latest headlines in USA Today, just the headlines? You are clearly the poster child for all trolls. Good work. Not only have you admitted that you actually know nothing about what you are talking about, you have exposed yourself as rather shallow as well. Well, might as well pack it in, as IndianaClones has probably already stopped reading, as this post has exceeded his limit for the day. Keep it short, people, the king of short attention span theatre has been crowned.

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Content I always laugh when I read about the Oscars around here. Year in and year out people say how the Oscars don't matter because they never get it right. So this year, if ROTK gets "snubbed" by the Oscars, fans will complain about how the Oscars don't really matter and how the films were robbed and how fantasy/sci-fi never gets honored, etc. Yet, we all know that those same people, if ROTK does happen to get best director or best film, will be celebrating and saying how obviously the LOTR movies are better than Star Wars, Matrix, etc. because one of the LOTR movies got a "major" Oscar. Seriously people, you can't have it both ways. Either they matter or they don't. The Oscars don't matter just because who you wanted to win gets an award. Personally, the Oscars don't matter to me any more because now they are just awards given to people who have done their time and it's their "turn" to get an Oscar.

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Content Nice to see that your fellow comrades are keeping their trolling posts short, so that you won't miss anything. Nicely done, Ryalto. Way to keep Indiana in the loop.

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Content I have heard from a vast majority of LOTR people that TTT was inferior to the first. And i hated FOTR. so why should i wish to put myself through an experience even more painful? I'll say again, the TTT trailer depicted more of the same and actually looked more boring.

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Content (Possible SPoilers)I have a question for anyone who has seen this film. Is there an attack of eagles in the final battle before the black gate? I'm assuming there have to be some eagles somewhere, since they're needed to get Frodo and Sam off Mt. Doom, but is there a moment, like in the book, when someone yells, "The eagles are coming!" and the eagles attack. I hope so.

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Content I read the books in school. They sucked. The FOTR movie sucked ba thousand times more.

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Content What I mean is that if he already ddn't like FOTR, TTT is very unlikely to change his opinion. as for me, I've seen both versions of both and I say PJs a hack who can whip up a neat visual now and then but should never have been allowed within 20 miles of the screenwriting or editing jobs. "Adapting this gigantic, "unfilmable" work as he has is nothing to be belittled." Oh, bullshit. LOTR is very filmable. there are action set pieces and great lines galore, all that is required to translate it to screen is judicious editing and a lot of money. I have a hard time buying that PJ's LOTR is written for adults when he dumbed down practically every aspect of the story, turned the hobbits into fools and populated his films with burp, fart and dwarf jokes. When PJ wasted an hour of screentime in TTT because "wargs are cool," was he doing that for the adults?

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Content You think PJ 'avoided sentimentality??" Did you see the movies? Did you miss all those shots of PJs kids? Howabout the 10,000 scenes of poor hagard, defenseless villagers in TTT?

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Content Could you give us some sort of context here? "I'll say again, the TTT trailer depicted more of the same and actually looked more boring." I'd be interested to know what films you've actaully SEEN, that you don't consider to be 'boring'.

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Content Hi, well peeps, maybe you can help me out here - please give me an explanation why LOTR is so damn successful. I mean the Tolkien books, the P.J. movies, the merchandise, anything. I just don't get it. I mean come on, even the names in LOTR are so awkward, Hobbit, Saruman, Frodo, that all sounds so cheap, kiddie-talkish, like the first name that comes to your mind when you want to make up a "fantasy"-name. Even the names in Star Wars are cooler, although they are also a little ridiculous. I have to admit I haven't read the LOTR book to the end -I had to put it away after a hundred pages because I was bored to oblivion. Then I went to the first movie and it was okay, although a little repititive. Why? Well, the whole plot is like: "The gang" travels to some visually astonishing location. Then, some enemies disturb there astonishment. They fight off the enemies. Then they travel to a new location...and so on and so on. I mean effect-wise it's all very very sophisticated, but I cannot see how the beef, i.e. the plot is in any way superior to Star Wars, Matrix, or even Cannonball Run. What also bothers me a lot is the whole "tree-hugging is the way to go" dogma that Tolkien tries to force upon his readers. What is so great being a lowbrow, pipe-smoking simpleton from a hut compared to being a 21th century citizen? I read that Tolkien wrote LOTR to bash the "modern" way of life, and to show people how great a grassroots life is. I just don't buy it. I don't want to be a fatty midget with no central heating in a world that's mostly dark and full of monsters...well I could go on, maybe later

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Content ... you're talking out your arse 'mate'. (Heh, get it?)

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Content FOTR:EE, the lembas scene.

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Content http://www.ymdb.com/user_top20_view.asp?usersid=4421&ce=y

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Content ... instead of out the other end like the rest of us?

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Content And theres a surprise, five out of the top six of your list are ALL of the Star Wars films!!! The OT is fine, but to rank the prequels that highly is beyond the joke!!! Also youre last remark read..."I read the books in school. They sucked. The FOTR movie sucked a thousand times more." Ok...well its clear to me you

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Content I think you're bang-on with that one.

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Content ... and sarcastic to bring up some of the very films you put in your top 20. Big fan of the "Things-getting-blowed-up real-good" school of film making eh? Is is to laugh. What are you? About 14 years old? You wouldn't know good cinema if it snuck up and bit you on the ass. Point Break? Robo Cop? TRANSFORMERS?! Puuulleeeezz. Heres his list folks: 1. Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980) 2. Star Wars (1977) 3. Titanic (1997) 4. Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983) 5. Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002) 6. Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999) Buy 7. Pulp Fiction (1994) 8. Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991) 9. Aliens (1986) Buy 10. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (1982) 11. Back to the Future (1985) 12. Transformers: The Movie, The (1986) 13. Lethal Weapon (1989) 14. Lethal Weapon (1987) 15. Die Hard (1988) 16. Point Break (1991) 17. RoboCop (1987) 18. Superman (1978) 19. Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan (1982) 20. Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) *** This list makes it painfully clear why the LOTR are completely over your head. *** Here's some my off the cuff favorites, in no particular order, just for comparison IC: A Clockwork Orange, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Apocolypse Now, It Happened One Night, High Noon, Heaven Can Wait, Ben Hur, Dr. Strangelove, Mememto, Brazil, 12 Monkeys, Five Easy Pieces, Friendly Persuasion, Marathon Man, Seconds, Henry V,... OK that's enough for now, sorry if I bored you..

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Content I was fifteen, moron. Not five. Titanic kicks fucking ass.

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Content What has stuff getting blown up got to do with my list? And if it did, shouldn't i unconditionally love LOTR which contains said pyrotechnics? Fucking dickhead.

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Content "I would never label the LOTR books as being 'unfilmable'. That's ridiculous." Quite right, I am merely quoting what has been said by others in the past. This was why the rights to the movie were sold so cheaply as they figured making it into film was impossible. Obviously as film technology improved, this situation changed. Saying that, even with the technology, I think there are very few directors, if any, that couldve done LOTR as well as Jackson. The guy was just just born to make these films. God help us if Lucas had been in control!!!

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Content ... you mental midget...

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Content this made my day. and stephanies.

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Content Metaphore (sic) for what? And your list mostly sucks.

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Content "I was fifteen, moron. Not five. Titanic kicks fucking ass." Well to be perfectly honest I think 15 is too young to fully appreciate the books. Understand them yes, but not fully appreciate them. I certainly didnt assume you were five, thats daft, almost as daft as your 'TITANIC kicks fucking ass' remark. Reading the Hobbit is one thing, but LOTR is quite difficult at that age, the Silmarillion even more so!!!!! Has anyone tried to read the copy of the letter that Tolkien sent to his publisher at the beginning of the Silmarillion book? Jesus....its tough! Oh and one more thing Indiana, I am NOT a moron.

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Content ... I bet you haven't seen even half the films on the list. Let's take a little poll here: My list or IC's? Eh folks? What say you? Like it amounts to a hill of beans anyway. Ok, now I'M officially bored with this little pissing contest. Have fun IC, I've already wasted more time on you than I should have.

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Content I can e-mail you elanor's non-spoiler review if you want. Does your name link to your current e-mail addy? Mine still does, so if you want to e-mail me, I can then forward elanor's review onto you.

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Content Did you once compare yourself to Batman and your ex-girlfriend to Catwoman? 'Cause call me nutty but I sense something familiar in your posts...something...dare I say it...fettastic...

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Content Many thanks, but Elanor was good enough to send it to me already. A very good, non-spoiler, review.

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Content How cum none of these lily white LOTR (Lord of the Racists) reviews say if mah brothas are in da movie? All these whities r are there. You got them dinky white hobbits with their dinky hobbit cocks. You kno that elf ho liv tyler be cravin some real dark meat.

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Content That has got to be the funniest top twenty I have yet seen. All things aside, the Transformers? Oh, goodness. I simply cannot go on. Indiana, you have no credibility left, it may be time to stop while you have some shred of dignity. Nah, screw it. Keep going, you absolutely brighten my day. Schadenfreude, indeed.

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Content Black, are you related to Elf_Killer?

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Content The answer to your question: "even the smallest person can change the course fo the future" "...ours to decide is what to do with the time that is given us" Significant, relevent, eloquent, poignant, universal, timeless, Whether or not you agree with Jackson's filmaking decisions, he hasn't gotten "in the way" of those two messages in manner that many "Hollywood" productions might have. Tolkien inspires the human spirit to find the best place within oneself, regardless of your politics or pov. So what if Tolkien liked trees or was a Luddite? He had a keen sense of the struggles each of face everyday and applied these struggles to each character. Surferdude, something tells me you just posted to get a reaction! How naive can I get? Like this talkback needs to be longer?!?!?!? ------ To everyone else.... What PJ embellished or deleted was his prerogative as the film maker. I have to admire the film accomplishment- IMO... nothing short of the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in artist acheivement within a medium for our era. Most of the movies mentioned in this TB all have value and merit of some kind, whether you like them or not. And this is also true for the LotR movies. But transcending that, the LotR trilogy is a historic moviemaking achievement and as a whole, remains in a category by itself, beyond compare.

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Content What the hell, seeing as you did it and I'm so certain my list pisses all over Indiana Clones' as well, here is my hastily compiled top ten............. 1. LOTR (all three films

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Content Hildebrand, u fucking racist shit. U just dun notice no problems with LOTR cuz you prolly as white as they cum.

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Content Especially as is it spoiler-free. Thanks guys!

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Content Could one of you please send me Elanor's review, too? I'm quite curious now. Thank you very much in advance.

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Content Yes, there are eagles. And a scene that includes them is definitely my favorite so far.***I'm gonna give Harry another couple of hours and then I'm gonna post my review on the tb.

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Content If it's not too much trouble. And if you don't still have my real e-mail addy, ask Miami. He should be getting a message from me right...about...NOW.

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Content get with it mori

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Content I know you of old. Against my better judgement I am going to respondto your post. "You think PJ 'avoided sentimentality??" Yes. "Did you see the movies?" Yes. All three of them. "Did you miss all those shots of PJs kids?" I saw two shots of PJ

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Content Where are all the Kiwi's in movies like "Boyz in the Hood" and "Barbershop". Talk about racist!

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Content Cheers...

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Content I'm at work now and this computer prevents me from e-mailing anybody by clicking so I hope Miami will do it for me. Sorry, my dear. I can do it from home. I should have thought to gather e-mails before the fact!

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Content Cheers, mate.

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Content So you "never got why LOTR was supposed to be good in the first place". It isn't "supposed to be good". It's good if you think it's good. Perhaps you only like things when others tell you you are "supposed" to like them? If you don't like LOTR, fine. You don't have to. The question then, is, are you asking someone here to describe LOTR's merits, or why it is popular or why one person finds it a great story? I don't think you really are. No. You are just trolling. I think it's time to find somewhere else to play. Oh, wait. I think I hear your mom calling. Yep. Better get along home now. Chores to do.

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Content He is back our good tailenders. Elf_Killer has found a way back. It has to be him. How many times have you been banned now, Killer?

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Content The question of overt (and usually needless) sentimentality crops up when the movie does need to go to great lengths to jerk the tears from the viewer. A case in point for Spielberg, the ending of Saving Private Ryan (or as one critic said, the best use of a gerund in a movie title). The movie was so good, and so moving, and made such a lasting image in the mind that it was powerful enough on its own, and it did not need the bracketing device of the aging Private Ryan weeping with his family. That is overt sentimentality, because it is outside of the story. Spielberg wanted tears, and got them, but the ploy was a bit too transparent. The tears come from getting jerked around outside of the story that played out in front of the audience. Just an example, and I am quite sure that many will disagree with my interpretation, but that is how I see it. The tears, when they come in the LOTR films, come because of the story and its path. The shot of the Fellowship after the fall of Gandalf is one the many examples. The tears are a part of the story because that is what the characters are feeling as well. If the emotions are consistent with what is taking place in the story, then the sentiment is not compromised.

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Content elanor's review has been sent!

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Content Miami, if you

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Content The problem is the REST of you 21st century citizens. If the population of the earth could be reduced by 95%, and if I got to pick who stayed, everything would be fine.

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Content I think the dramatic structure of the movie needs the framing scenes. It is important to know that Ryan remembers Tom Hanks' injunction to "earn it" all those years later. We can't know that unless we see the bracketing parts. Maybe he forgot. Maybe it didn't strike him as anything important. Maybe the idea of earning it was foolish to him. We have to actually SEE, I think, that Ryan noted the sacrifice made in his behalf, and still remembers it, and will remember it until he dies. It's essentially the point of the film.

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Content Sorry about the capitals - I'm just dying to hear what a REAL person has to say about ROTK. Now I don't really wish to read any more spoilers - though I know you'll signpost them - but can you tell us how ROTK compares to TTT and FOTR in terms of overall style and most especially - which of the three movies is your favorite? In years to come, which movie do you think will be regarded as the best in the trilogy? Also - without mentioning specific scenes, does ROTK have any of those quiet magical, soulful moments which were in FOTR and the TTT EE (i.e. smokey ship, flight of the moth, Treebeard's poem, Aragorn's horse-whispering etc). Much appreciated! ******* Hmmmmm, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree there, Elanor. I know it depends to a degree on cultural sensibilities and individual taste - but I would have said that both FOTR and TTT were, at times, awash with strong and overt sentimentality. Shots such as the close-up on Frodo saying, "I'm glad you're with me, Sam" and Sam's speech at the end of TTT are two occasions that come to mind....They seem to me to be in the same register as "I love you, E.T." and "Don't leave me, Jack!" (or whatever it is Kate Winslett says in Titanic...) I agree that very often, PJ handles the emotional moments extremely well - such as when Frodo is looking at Bilbo's book in Rivendell - but there are times when it does slip into Spielberg territory...

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Content Playing catch with dad at the end: Necessary, or Unnecessary, Sentimentality?

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Content I don't quite understand the intense hatred of this animated film. While it is far from perfect I think Bakshi did a great job of capturing the feel of tolkien's middle earth. Much in the same way that David Lynch did with his Dune. Both films deviated from the plot of the novels but both nailed the feel.

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Content I would say that since the whole movie goes for the gusto of overt sentimentality (I mean, its a love letter to baseball), the playing catch scene is certainly overt sentimentality, but it flows consistantly with the tone of the movie. The whole movie drips with nostalgic sentimentality. ***Yep, on the Saving Private Ryan front, I understand the necessity of bringing the story back around, but I had gotten the point as Tom Hanks imparted his dying, "Earn this". To me, the movie could have ended right there. I cried like a baby when he died, and felt a bit used when the elder Private Ryan wept with his family. Just a personal thing, though. ****Sam's speech veers toward overt sentimentality. What helps in this case is the fact that the speech is not just for the audience, but to try to convince Faramir, and in some sense Frodo, to continue the struggle. It tries to fit itself into the plot. (and yes, it is a bit transparent)

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Content The idea that a director, or an actor for that matter, has to have a track record before they can win an Oscar is EXACTLY what is wrong with the Oscars. In some ways it is just silly even to turn something which is supposed to be artistic expression into a competition. But having said that, the Oscars are supposed to reflect the best movies and performances of the year. Track record should have nothing to do with it. Did McKellan in LOTR give a better performance than Denzel Washington in Training Day? That can be argued, but Washington's work in movies like Glory or anything else should not enter into it. The idea that people should get it because they are owed because they were snubbed in the past or because they have had a good track record shouldn't be considered. It just perpetuates the cycle of the wrong people getting it. Also, there is a disproportionate number of movies that have won, especially recenly, that were released in the last few months of the year. Why? Because Hollywood has a short attention span. Woody Allen, who made good movies, in spite of his personal life, used to release his movies in Feb. so they wouldn't get nominated. There are a whole slew of great people who never won Oscars- Hitchcock, Lynch, Cary Grant, Peter O'Toole, and (I think) Scorcese- but Ben Affleck has one, and Tom Hanks has like 3 of them. There is just no reason to take these awards seriously. Shakespeare in Love because of the Harvey Weinstein machine, not because it was the best movie of the year (it beat out Saving Private Ryan). As I mentioned in my last post, Ordinary People won in 1980. It beat not only The Elephant Man, but also Raging Bull. Do I need to say more?

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Content Eeek. I remember taking in that movie with my mom (she read voraciously, at least 10 books a week, nearly every genre (except romances and westerns)). She loved the Dune series and was curious to see how someone would do with the material on the big screen. We watched it, and I could sense that she really wanted to leave, but had too much class to do that. On the way home she listed the things she really disliked about the film, most notably that they screwed up the ending with the coming of the rain. She commented that it was a good try, but that perhaps some stories shouldn't be translated into cinema. On a side note, she read all of the Tolkien works and decided that only the Silmarillion was worth reading again. (Dante's Divine Comdedy was her favorite. The whole thing, not just Inferno.)

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Content Awe, a little Mamma's boy. Aint that sweet.

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Content Sorry. Had to emphasize the fact that I got your name right this time. Anyways, about your top 20 comparison with Indiana, well, my impression is that your taste in movies is very different. In general, you seem to like films that received a lot more critical acclaim and have more of an artsy bent to them. Indiana Clones is a die hard fan of the popcorn flick, it would seem. There are some films in IC's top twenty that I really like and there are some in yours that I like. I think it's the same for most people here and that's why they've refused post telling you which list they prefer. A list of my favorite films would probably include, off the top of my head, the three colors trilogy, Camera Buff, the original star wars trilogy, at least FOTR and possibly TTT EE (haven't seen it yet), Faust (Murnau's), Saving Private Ryan, The Usual Suspects, Fight Club, The Bicycle Thieves (or Thief, depending on your translation), La Promesse and Raiders of the Lost Ark. Forgive my ignorance, but I've never heard of Seconds, could you tell me about it?

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Content It's kind of annoying that Peter O'Toole didn't win an Oscar for "Becket" or "LOA" but Julia Roberts has an Oscar at whatever hobo flop house she sleeps in.

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Content Someone suggested making that a new AICN catchphrase back in the Paris Hilton TB....don't know if it has a ring to it yet or not.

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Content I wear the epithet with pride.

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Content there's something about flying arrows (bullets too, sure) and severed limbs that elevates sentimatility to a level where your average might want to shed a tear (or at least think about it). sam's speech at the end of TTT kinda pissed me off though. it wasn't just sentimentality... it was telling you the main thrust of what the movies were about, just in case you were too stupid to get it from the other 6 or so hours in the series. the matrix did the same thing, that is, explain everything in painstaking detail for the slower lot of moviegoers (only, in the matrix, they left out huge chunks, but fuck it i'm not bringing that up again). movies these days, even the great ones like lotr, are constantly repeating themselves and putting neon flashing lights around their themes. it gets tedious.

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Content Sweet Jebus!!! I CANNOT FRICKING WAIT FOR THIS ROTK!!!!!!!!!!!!! All you nay-sayers and trolls can go scratch your pasty white, pimply a-holes for all I care! NOTHING WILL RUIN THIS FOR ME!!!!! If anything, I simply pity you all for being unable to enjoy this never-to-be-matched, genuine, bon-a-fide MASTERPIECE of cinema!!!!!

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Content okay first of all, what I really dislike in internet forums and boards is that almost every posting that is negative towards the majorities' opinion is all-to-readily called a "troll" posting. This is true especially for "geeky" topics, like fantasy movies, computers, religions, and the likes. But that's not how you get a discussion started. If this is just for repeating how great LOTR is over and over again, just tell me and I'm outta here. I would still like to know what relevance LOTR (both the book and the movie trilogy) has to us. LOTR was written on the height of the "avantgarde" movement in literature, and was just a reactionary blow against everything modern, favoring the simple, rural lifestyle as the "only way to live", while the "industrialized", urban lifestyle was the epitome of evil for Tolkien. After all, and this might be a little harsh to every Tolkien fanatic out there, but LOTR is not being looked upon as good writing. It has a definite fascist undertone, it's neo-romanticism at it's worst, and if you browse the New York Times archives you can find a heated debate about LOTR (pretty interesting read, a bitch to find though, look for "h.w. auden". It definitely has a mass following, and I am interested to find out why. Actually, many of my best friends are fans of it, but then they don't read a lot of other books than sci-fi or fantasy, mostly comic books that is. to ELANOR: About the trolling, read above. Now, we need to be on the same basis of discussion. Your approach is very subjective: "Either like it or not, do what you want and let us like what we want." This is fine with me. But why did you answer my posting? You will agree it is valid to discuss the relevance and quality of a piece of work (be it literature, movies, theater, etc.) on an OBJECTIVE level. If you cannot do this, you're just another fanboy / -girl and I'm the last person who wants to burst your nice, comfy bubble. But LOTR can and should be put into context, that is historical context, political context and cultural context. And it fails on so many levels, it's not even funny. Tolkien wrote a very irrelevant, even fascist book, and PJ made a visually stunning, yet totally irrelevant movie trilogy from it. He made a 1:1 replica of Tolkien's weird concepts. Just for an example: Count the time you see Blanchett / Tyler in Two Towers, it's about 5min 30sec counted TOGETHER. Women just don't happen in the Tolkien world. It's totally sex-less. Peter Jackson did a "great" job transforming this manly, sweaty world into 2003. It's a very gay world. (not meaning a bad world, just not interested in any sex). The values that LOTR (Tolkien) and his biggest fanboy PJ force upon their readers / moviegoers are just wrong. And to BDT: If you still dream your little neo-romantic dream which you clearly do ("even the smallest person can change the course fo the future"), please do so, but be informed, a reality check is mandatory for you. If you hide yourself in a LOTR world, you will fail in our, real world. Just look at all the geeks. Do you want to be one of them? better be a surferdude

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Content I started reading the smart remarks from these talkbacks but then just skipped down to every Indiana Clones post... nice entertainment while putting off studying... I've seen the Bakshi film 1 1/2 times.. and with good reason. I first saw it I was maybe 9 or 10. An I swore to myself that I'd NEVER under any circumstances read the books it was sooo boring. Skip ahead to High School... after developping an interest for Warcraft, I read The Hobbit and genuinely liked it. Then Used Fellowship, Towers and King as ook reviews for English class (with a prof who loved Tolkien with a passion. I started discussing with my friends how cool it would be to have a live action movie based on the films, this was 1997 mind you. Fellowship came out... loved it. TTT, Didn't like as much. Return of the King will most likely Rock. I haven't seen the extended editions yet but will do before ROTK comes out... Thats my story. Indiana Clones, keep the entertainment coming, you're killing me.

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Content ... and I am of the opinion that a lot of so called "popcorn flicks" are a complete load of bollocks measured by just about any yardstick you care to use. I'll admit it: When it comes to books and movies I'm as big snob as IC, just at the complete opposite end of the spectrum; in light of which, my "comparison post" now seems pretty damn silly. I guess we all seek confirmation of our likes and dislikes from time to time whether we realize it during the actual act of trying to impress someone or not. Let me just apologize therefore for my arrogance in that post. I just get tired of the intellectually lazy slagging that goes on here sometimes. In Indy's case, he simply doesn't know any better. And yes, I do realize that I'm "being a snob" again by saying that. However, I also hold firmly to the belief that "Mediocrity Sucks", and will not ever be apologetic for said conviction. If you're not striving for the best, reading the best, producing the best, whatever, that you are capable of, what's the point? Cash it in already. *** Although my hasty list doesn't really reflect it, my tastes tend veer toward darker, denser, material. But they're just that: MY Tastes. SECONDS, IMsomewhatHerO is a brilliant, dark, and pretty damn disturbing film directed by John Frankenheimer starring Rock Hudson, released in 1966 (in B&W). It's about a guy that experiences a midlife crisis and gets involved with a mysterious and sinister company who offers wealthy middle aged men a chance to "Start all over again". First saw it when I was about 12, and it has haunted me ever since. Please refer to the following link for further details if you should be so inclined: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060955/

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Content Fascist? I'm probably just undereducated, but how are they fascist books? Anyhow, your point about the LOTR books not being considered "great writing" is true to a certain extent. It has not enjoyed the accolades of the literary elite, but what it has done, that things like Faulkner or Kafka haven't is provide legions of people with escapist fantasy, in a world that is more fully realized and thought out than any other imaginary world. Therin lies the appeal of these books. No, they are not taught in upper division English classes anywhere that I know of, but I found them to bee fun, involving, sometimes moving books. Now, while I admire your idealism in saying that we have to discuss things objectively, you have to admit that absolute objectivity in any subject that involves emotions or opinions is a myth. Your post, along with every other post on this board is subjective. On a final note, I don't think that either the films or the books are irrelevant. Yes, they deal with a fantasy world and yes, many of the problems the characters experience are wrapped up with the end of the ring, but the overall themes are pertinent to everybody. The theme of friendship and loyalty, and especially courage in the face of overwhelming evil and danger are, as some might argue, trite, but they are still valid and very applicable to everybody's lives. Yes, no one on these boards is ever going to have to save the world, and no, chances are, my actions as puny little Ye-Baar over here in Ye-Baar land aren't going to change the world, but within the framework of my own live (and in each of our lives) these themes have a place, even if the way they are treated in the films/books is on a much grander scale than anything we encounter in our daily lives. Anyways, I'll shut up now. Those are my 2 cents.

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Content You pick out one [one] of Tolkien's themes, assign him a position, and then declare the work as a whole irrelevant. Um, why isn't that position and theme relevant? You reflexively choose the other side of that theme, apparently - so I guess from your perspective Tolkien is WRONG - but "wrong" is different from "irrelevant". It may just be that Socratic reason, historicism, and industrialization are inferior in human value to the values Tolkien postulates. Or, at the very least, one could have an interesting discussion about it. Why would that not be relevant? Personally, I too think that there are things Tolkien did not consider when reaching his judgment. I would come down on the side of reason and industrialization, too, albeit with some shades different than the standard model. But that doesn't mean that Tolkien has nothing to say, and that it can't be worthwhile to read him and think about his arguments, too.

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Content ... because I'm quite sure I won't be the last: You are a trolling tool. You no more have the wit to comprehend LOTR than does a potted fern. You'd better hope that Elanor ignores you, because I can guarantee that she'll embarras your neolithic ass right back into the booby hatch you escaped from.

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Content Darker, denser. Good way to put it. You like Bergman? I forget, what's your take on LOTR again? Oh, and I respectfully disagree. Popcorn flicks can be fun as just that, popcorn flicks. They have their own yardstick with me. And yes, lots of "popcorn flicks" are very intellectually lazy, but some of them are just fun escapist cinema. Raiders of the Lost Ark is great, there are plot holes galore, but it works within the world of the film. So by the sheer entertainment yardstick, it measures up just fine. So does Aliens.

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Content First, could you provide some examples of Tolkien's work failing contextually. Could you provide some examples of LOTR's fascism? Also, a question, why does a piece of fantasy literature need to be relevant? If it does need to be relevant, why? If not, then why this particular critique? As for the idea of pining for a golden age, that is one of literatures great themes, looking for that time or place when the world was good and right and decent. Of course Tolkien (and all who write on such themes) understood that Golden Ages cannot exist, but shouldn't stop someone from writing about one.

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Content fack oorffff you cant. i lav king george gaud bless im. long liv ver king-ah.

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Content lol you know how to get a rise out of people, good job. but anyway here's my $.02 - chill the fuck out. the novels were fiction, not works of political science. if you must judge them by their relevance (which is bullshit to begin with), at least judge them properly, i.e. by their relevance ON FICTION. and to deny that obvious impact would be ludicrous. the movies are artistically relevant simply because of the skill of their execution. beyond that, if you're looking for true political or social relevance in just about any art that's made today, you might as well give up now. that is unless you're amused by someone repeating ideas of dead people in new and exciting ways.

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Content Surferdude: If you want me to respond to you about what I think are the merits of LOTR then you are going to have to convince me that you really want to know, as my time is valuable. I am not inclined to waste my time since your post shows clearly that you have already formed a very specific opinion (however uniformed it is) and have so far simply made negative assertions about a work that I hold dear. I am going to defend a work I love; that does not mean I think you lose your right to your opinion. You also show little comprehension of what I wrote, except the part where I wagged my finger at you. Perhaps those phrases are more familiar to you? You also put quotes around words I didn

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Content He's right. These films are detrimental to the growth of society and promote backward thinking.

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Content And how exactly did Transformers advance civilization?

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Content to call this the greatest trilogy of all time? or shall i wait til tomorrow?

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Content ...can I get elanor's review too please.

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Content ELANOR: I don't know who the hell you are but you seem to have more time than you pretend judging from the time you spend on internet msg boards. EVERYBODY: you all don't want to discuss. I have 0 (zero) respect for anyone who is into any sort of fantasy, sci-fi, videogames, horror, gothic movies, books, toys, etc, it's just so f...ng childish. If you are like under 17 years old it could be forgiven, but anything above that age is just plain ridiculous. So, any discussion about non-events like LOTR is just a plain waste of time. You guys are lucky and I sure hope our society will stop to treat all this moronic geeky timewasting as "culture", because it's just a lame excuse of our generation for not being able to create something relevant. Cheers!

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Content And thanks for that review too! Whew! Eases my mind quite a bit. Though I'm still not giving up my membership in the R.T.E. And I still haven't seen a proper show of hands: WHO IS GOING TO TRILOGY TUESDAY?!?

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Content I NEVER said it DID. You fucking RETARD.

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Content Relevant? Here's this word again. I don't think it means what you think it means. Please tell me what you think "relevant" means. Also, I tried discussing LOTR the books/movies with you rationally and as "objectively" as I could and the next post I saw was this one which amounts to "You're all childish". That's your defense of your position? If you really wanted a discussion why didn't you stick around and show us all how it's done instead of regurgitating "It's irrelevant" and running away?

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Content stop all this bullshit about promoting backward thinking. this is a forum about movies for movie fans, and frankly, your political opinions mean next to nothing because you (we, that is) know next to nothing about real politics. judge the movie on its cinematic merits, not on the political message it's trying to send. this whole debate reminds me of matrix fans trying to philosophize. or, for that matter, sheryl crow telling us that war in iraq is wrong. i'm not saying you can't make known your political opinions, i'm saying that no matter what we say on this subject we're probably wrong, so let's stick to movies kids.

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Content Spielberg is overrated. So he can rake in the big bucks, so what - McDonald's does too, it doesn't follow that a Big Mac is a culinary tour de force. Duel is Spielberg's best movie, in my opinion -- but then I'm one of those freaks who prefers cheap production values over mawkishness. Also it's not like PJ never made any movies before LotR; Heavenly Creatures was pretty good and launched Kate Winslet's career. (And thus I shall not say one critical word about LotR again on AICN until I see RotK, but I reserve the right to be an unreasonable jerk about anything else.)

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Content many people think like you do, yet they're not posting on this messageboard. what does that tell you? ;)

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Content Explain why exactly, professor. At the very least Transformers may get your nephew interested in robotics or something. All LOTR would teach him is that life is cheap, smoking is cool and gold rings and carrots are the most desirable commodities in the universe.

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Content You rule out Jules Verne, Mary Shelly, Bram Stoker, Dante, Homer, Milton, Malory, Shakespeare, Asimov, Sartre, Lewis, Tolkien, and a whole other horde of authors who have taken up the pen (or quill) to write stories in such genres. That is quite a lot of literature to dump down the well. Mayhap you were overstating your case just a bit?

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Content I would agree with your mother that the plot of the film is not consistent with the book but you might be surprised to know that Frank Herbert was a fan of the film... i think he died a couple of years after its realease... It's casted great and Lynch understands the herbert/dune world so well and it showed on screen... there were some script/plot problems and the action sequences are weak but the film 'feels' and looks like dune much more than those dry sci-fi channel translations. long live the fighters.

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Content Earlier, you listed the Transformers movie as one of your top 20 of all time. You also just posted that the LOTR movies promote backward thinking. It would seem, therefore, that you dislike movies that promote backward thinking, and like movies that do the opposite. How did the Transformers movie help move forward the development of mankind? Is there some critical wisdom to be gained from the insight that a toy car can be turned into a toy robot?

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Content Anyone think the dragonlance books or robert jordan novels will ever make it to film? Anyone like to suggest any great fantasy novels worthy of the big screen?

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Content Someone name the last great film he did... and Private Ryan does not count cause it was shit

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Content I just asked our friend Clones about that same thing, not quite with the same amount of style that you just did, but the only response I got was to be called a "Fucking RETARD". I think he's a little tense right now. Let's just sit back and see if he answers you.

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Content "All LOTR would teach him is that life is cheap, smoking is cool and gold rings and carrots are the most desirable commodities in the universe." exactly!!! not enough of our youth grasp the importance of these very simple but true principles! you and me brother, we'll lead this perverse world into a whole new era of pipes and carrots....

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Content Robotics!!!! Please. Now I have seen some king high reaches in my life, but this one takes the cake, candles and all. I don't think I have enjoyed this much unintentional comedy in some time. Do you think this stuff up yourself, or do you have a whole phalanx of writers coming up with this? It is priceless. And such willfull blindness added to the mix of your thought processes. You, my friend, are pure gold. Keep posting IndianaClones, the talkback could devolve into real conversation if you were to leave us. For your next trick could you discuss how Barney could inspire kids to take up paleontology? How about SpongeBob and the sudden upsurge in the interest in marine biology in grade schoolers? Keep charging, man, you are too good to lose.

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Content EMULATION! Look, by lumping in sci-fi I know you're essentially employing the Sontag argument. I should have realized it when you brought in WH Auden. Sontag said [better and more effectively than you, but there you go] that science fiction could never be a worthwhile or "relevant" art form because its scenarios of struggle against disaster and the unknown could only be used in the service of "reactionary" values, and that "real" art and literature was employed in the service of "progressive" values. I don't know what part of that argument is the worst - its arid utilitarianism or its pathetic academic leftism. Either way, it's an absurd argument, because - like you with your complaints about Tolkien's anti-industrialism, and your bitching about "relevance" - it assumes as part of its analysis claims that could only be made as a conclusion, i.e. that "progressive" values are the only appropriate values for art. Why would one assume that? In your case, is your definition of "relevant" = "supports or illuminates social and political positions that I ALREADY agree with"? It seems like it.

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Content "He's right. These films are detrimental to the growth of society and promote backward thinking." .....You know....with a quote like that, I am inclined to believe that the only 'backward thinking' around here must be yours. How else could one create such ill-conceived remarks and spew them forth onto these pages. Perhaps you would like to explain how exactly LOTR is "detrimental to the growth of society" If u refer to Tolkien's

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Content I just don't see where any praise for the Bakshi movie is coming from. The animation has got to be the worst in history. Aragorn looks like an Indian wearing those too tight tennis shorts. Boromir is a Viking. Gandalf is Gandalf the Blue (if you go by the color of his clothes). Sam looks (and acts) like some sort of demented mongoloid for god's sake! There is no attention to detail or attempt to really visualize Middle Earth as there is in PJ's version. All these people who bash PJ should at least keep in mind how much care and work went into creating such a minutely detailed vision of Middle Earth.

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Content I did not know that about Frank Herbert. Thanks for the info. I did like the cast. If I remeber correctly (this was clearly some time ago that we saw the film), my mom thought that a series of films would have been the better tack to take. Interesting stuff.

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Content ...was full of people just sitting around praising lotr because no one was really dissing it at the moment, all just waiting for someone to take the bait and say something bad about it so they could snap and argue again to bring fulfillment to their lives. any intelligent person would pick up on this and just steer clear of the board if they had something bad to say about lotr. unless of course they had a thing for getting flamed by 50 people inside of 2 minutes (a la surferdude). i'm at work and i'm really bored, so i have joined the ranks of flamers defending the movies. i apologize, real world.

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Content First, does this mean we aren't going to get an explanation of what was Fascist about LOTR? Second, someone said that you can't compare LOTR and Star Wars, because one is fantasy and one is Sci-Fi. I would argue that there really is nothing inherently Sci-Fi about Star Wars. Sure it takes place in space, but, as Mark Hamill has repeatedly said, it is basically the story of a farmboy, a princess, a wizard and a pirate in space. Lucas was trying to recreate the "space opera" movies of the 1930s and 40s, the kind of stuff the Joseph Campbell was trying to move away from when he wrote things like "Twilight." Some people define Sci-Fi as a story that requires a non-existant piece of technology or social structure that is inherent to the story. By that definition Star Wars is not Sci-Fi, it's essentially fantasy in space. It has things like space ships, and lightsabers, but they are only window dressing. The basic story can be told without them, in a way that, say Bladerunner, couldn' without androids, or even Minority Report couldnt without the Pre-Cogs. If you don't believe that Star Wars can be told without the Tech, than go watch the original- Kurosawa's "Hidden Fortress." Its only with AOTC that Star Wars really became SciFi, and even then, most of the story could be told without the clones.

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Content Jesus retard, when did i say i only limit my movie preferences to films that give good advice to society? I just hate films that promote idiocy and reliance upon simplistic attitudes. The movies i watch don't have to encourage people to cure cancer, they just have to be good movies. And Transformers is.

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Content Done and done. Have fun! :~) Oh, and you're welcome mort! [Gloves??? They actually make big enough to cover them flippers of yours?]

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Content lol talkbacks are fun.

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Content Hey, it's your friend retard here. I honestly have to say that I never thought someone who lists Transformers the movie in their top twenty movies of all time would be calling me a retard. But hey, stranger things have happened. Anyways, two things. First, at least you're consistent in that you stand behind the things you say, and in the fact that you consistantly call me retard. That, as far as I can tell, is your only good quality. Second, you need to calm down. If you come onto these boards vehemently espousing an opinion which runs counter to that held by the majority, you better find a more diplomatic way to phrase it, and you better damn well be able to back it up with something other than "Transformers at least promotes robotics" and callling everyone who disagrees with you a retard. Now strap your helmet on and go bowling or something, we're sick of you. Lots of love, buddy.

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Content LOTR isn't fascist. The orcs are nihilists and the men are monarchists. I think a problem, if you can call it a problem, with LOTR and most if not all fantasy is that it's based on kings and queens and royalty and 'lineage'. Aragorn is a true hero becuase he is descended from Arathorn and Isuldur. There is a great deal of empahsis on royal blood in LOTR. Sam is Frodo's manservent (perhaps in more ways then one). Tolkien had a true love for the england of old which wasn't just limited to anti-industrial views, it included aristocracy/lower class inclinatinos as well.

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Content I haven

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Content was a good movie for what it was meant to be. When it came out in the the movies it had two or three curses, didn't dumb down its plot, respected kids intellegince, treated its characters like real people, had some real drama, and had some really kick ass/laughable damn yankees sounding rock music. The first 30 minutes is fucking awesome, and the last 20 is good. the rest is not debatable. That garbage planet for example??

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Content HEIL OPTIMUS!!

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Content were blatantly neo-nazis down to the uniforms

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Content ...Snake-eyes has sent me elanor's review. Thanks Snake-eyes! And elanor, you rock!

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Content <nt>

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Content First of all, to BG, my pleasure (sorry if I sent it more than once -bloody email!!) Secondly, does anyone know of any UK cinemas that have started to sell ROTK tickets yet? I've been trying for weeks now and cinemas like UCI and UGC all claim due to ROTK's 'unknown running time', tickets for ROTK are not yet on sale. Just curious really cos they are leaving it pretty late (2 weeks to go). Most other films you can book nearly a month in advance.

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Content You nailed it Iwantmy2dollars! Those who critizise Bakshi

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Content The National Board of Review just released their 10 best movies of 2003 ... and "Return of the King" is not on it.

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Content yes kids, it's been a great talkback, but it would seem it's finally time to put it to rest. we've all been through so much together these past 48 hours... ah, i remember a scuffle between brits and americans, those were good times, good times. yes kids, we've touched upon everything from revolutionary war hostilities to facism, star wars, the matrix, creationism, nihilism, and yes, even transformers. but even the most magical of messageboard topics run out of actual things to say. and when that time comes, kids, it's always best to just let it go.... dragging it out just makes it more painful... more painful for all of us. i'm getting choked up... i think i'm gonna cry.... GOD BLESS YOU, LORD OF THE RINGS MESSAGE BOARD OF DECEMBER 2, 2003.... GOD BLESS YOUR SOUL.......

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Content Hey Star Wars OT are still my favourite movies of all time, but Lotr IS better than the prequels IMHO. (Takes a lot for a Star Wars diehard to say)

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Content Check out www.theonering.com You'll be happy you did.

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Content i own about half the titles you mentioned in your list, and about half that Indiana Clones mentioned in his. precisely what is it about the films you listed that gives you a "better understanding of filmmaking" than Indiana? Moaters, you're a twit, hiding frightened behind your internet annonymity, passing condescending judgment down upon people who get a thrill out of bashing your beloved Jackson's "artistic vision". you are incapable of recognizing just how backwards your question to Clones was, when you asked if he was 14. the only type of individual that sits here and parades the sort of shit you spew is, yes, a 14-18 year old, who obviously has the delusion that he is "superior" to his peers, because his tastes and understanding of the world around him (even though he has no experience in said world, beyond his bedroom trappings) is far beyond that of those who prefer entertainment that differs from his own likes. i have a friend who's nephew is exactly like you. he sits and ridicules the world around him, assuming that his perception is somehow elevated beyond those who don't bother to whine and stomp their feet as loudly as he. LOTR is the perfect vehicle for a guy like you. it appears to be a serious "epic" type story, with a lot of British actors, and American actors doing poor British accents, to give it that "relevant" touch, which serves to distance it from other, less "adult" stories, which for reasons known only to you is decided to be SW, or any other fantasy type epic. like i said, i own an equal number of pictures from your "important" list, as well as Indiana's "juvenile" (your description, not mine) list. the fact is, you're the idiot who knows little about cinema because if the presentation of the film does not swagger with the same arrogance you lead your meaningless existence, then it must be "beneath" you. just remember, kid. i'm the guy who stares a nerd like you down when you get loud in public, with your equally arrogant and self important "friends". try doing that on the opening night of your Hobbit-fest, and maybe we will meet. it'll be my fist through your teeth. maybe elanor, or one of the other dried-up shut-ins that litter the online world can "rescue" you , with one of her "thesaurus" littered tirades of intellectual supremacy. TTT sucked. have you ever even bothered to watch the movies you piss on, such as Robocop? this constant referencing the LOTR films as something more than just bloated fantasy pictures is something to marvel at. but it will fade, in time. and yeah, Titanic was a great film; and guess what? it blew TTT away. Jesus Christ, your lot is impossibly pathetic.

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Content Tolkiens prime reason for creating LOTR was down to the frustration at there being no truely English legends, the Welsh, Scots, Manx, Saxons, Norse etc have a full and well documented historical background. The English do not due the constant invasions and merging of iliterate barbarians. He was writing as if Middle Earth was ancient Briton and has catered accordingly. This genius created a wonderful tale that portrays heroism, romance, loyalty, following your heart etc. Any cries of racism, hidden meaning, etc etc are just purile crap. Why not accuse the Ancient Egyptians of racism just because their writings portayed only people from the Nile delta. Shower of B'stards.

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Content ... make that www.theonering.net (but you knew that already!).

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Content It's too bad Surferdude didn't get HIS arm bitten off by that shark instead of the 13 year surferchick and couldn't type (He's a decent typist, I acknowledge and his grammar is good AND, I'm being hyperbolic to make an attempt at humor. I really don't even want a rotten spirited person like that to come to harm so lighten up folks.). But then, most surfers I've known weren't abject assholes like Surferdude. Otherwise, the world could've been spared some of the most absolutely idiotic thinking I believe I've ever run across on these TB's. Not to mention he's a genre Nazi. Let's hope he/she/it is sterile and won't propogate that particular brand of facist thinking around the world. Man, telling people their lives are worthless because of personal taste has to be an all time low, even on this site. Eew, I felt unclean just reading some of his drivel. I think I'l go gargle my eyeballs in sulphuric acid...hope that works! ** This TB is like daja-vu all over again. Just prior to each release, some people seem to go out of their way to act like assholes (And they call them opinions!) to anybdy who expresses a fondness for Jackson's movies, his career and anything Tolkien related. Man, it all must be some fantastic shit to get these people so filled with meanness and bile. I've never understood how one person's pleasure can cause others to hate them for it. Guess it's a fucked up world sometimes and we get these Hitlers and Stalins and, well I guess Tolkien said it best, "The Orcs among us."

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Content Yes, yes... I was very disapointed in jackson's fellowship when boromir died. In Bakshi's version it is really a moment of high drama. Even the final battle in the animated film, while completely out of whack with the novels, is a great moment and worthy climax. Unlike PJ's version (i have not seen the extended) where gandalf and company crashes into the orcs and that's the end of the battle and then we are treated to sean astin blathering on to frodod..

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Content Does anyone know how this showdown at the broken gate right before rohan comes to the rescue is handled in the new film? This is the great moment of anticipation in the trilogy as these two get ready to square off...

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Content If you are interested in reading my review from last night you can find it on TORN at http://www.theonering.net/ perl/newsview/2/1070486068. Take out the space between net/ and perl/. I hope this works I've tried a link before. Harry hasn't updated the site all day so I guess he's busy with BNAT. Or he just doesn't like me anymore (snif) 8~)

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Content third things. first: transformers. second: to call anyone on these boards pathetic is redundant (but fun from time to time). third: TRANSFORMERS.

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Content 8~)

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Content Snaga-ape almost choke on bark juice when he see that. This MasterSausageGumlock surface-monkey never see Mr. Skyway Moaters or he know that pretty stupid thing to say. Even dumbest orc in Great Peter Jackson movie not say something that stupid. But then everybody know Grimloch is a big liar from this site so what he know. Next he will whine and cry and say he only making joke and not all should take him with serious. We never know cause he flippy and floppy so much it hard to know what to believe. Ha ha, maybe he wear his black metal costume to stare down Skyway Moaters. Snaga-ape know he wet his britches if he really try what he say. Snaga-ape go watch Return of King trailer one more time and think how great full movie be.

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Content true, but i felt my tirade was on a roll, so i kept going. and finally, TTT sucked.

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Content And has at once contradicted himself despite his lengthy and overly articulate post. However despite this glossy post, littered with nice big words to show off his literacy skills, he

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Content ...i'm the one fucking your wife while you're busy eyeing geeks. cheers!

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Content I seriously do not understand why all of this ridiculous arguing and name-calling over which movie is better has to happen. Why doesn't everyone just state their points and then have a normal opinion and rebuttal but keep it civilized? It's great that we have movies like this and they should all bring us together, not turn into what this has turned into. It's just sad and pathetic.

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Content Dear Iwantmy: Of all the things to choose from Bakshi's "Lord of Th..." to compare against PJ's you choose Boromir's Death? That scene is one of the very few scenes in PJ's films that I believe is better than Tolkien's original as well as one of the finest moments in all cinema history. Never before (to my knowledge) has a kick-ass, audience-pleasing vanquishing of a villian (via beheading no less) been so movingly followed by deathbed confession, heartfelt. man-to-man promise and topped with brow-kissing. Good god! It is perfection.***And as for your description of the scene "...where gandalf and company crashes into the orcs and that's the end of the battle and then we are treated to sean astin blathering on to frodod.." it is so wrong as to indicate you were asleep during the scene. Gandalf is nowhere to be found, sir. We left him in Moria with the Balrog. The company does not "crash into the orcs", Aragorn takes on about 30 singlehandedly, then Legolas and Gimli arrive to help him, while in another part of the forest, Merry and Pippin sacrifice themselves by leading another group of Uruks away from Frodo so he can escape and continue the quest. When they get surrounded, Boromir comes charging up the hill to their defense. Watch it sometime. It is a magnificent scene. If you don't care for what Frodo and Sam have to say to each other, then fast forward through it. FYI the extended version is essentially the same.***and back to Bakshi, his "final battle" is not final at all. The movie just ends leaving the entire last book (by that I mean the climax and whole POINT of the story) unfilmed. And I prefer my Orcs as scary mofo's not burlap-draped dummies.

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Content oh yeah!? well.... well....... YOU'RE A RETARD!!!!

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Content you're the one hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet, NOT Sky Moaters. Twice now you've threatened violence should you ever meet other Tailenders. Why is this? Well reasoned arguments starting to wear your vicious bile down? You can barely string a sentence together about why LOTR 'sucks' and now your being forced (by whom I don't know) to write silly pointless threats. Do you think this impresses anybody? Even your SW/Matrix pals? I laugh out loud when I hear a nerdy four-eyed buck teethed git like you sitting in your basebment surrounded by Chewbacca posters threatening all sorts of dire retribution against your "enemies". AS if you'd ever have the ticker to even raise your voice against someome let alone "smash their teeth in". I could see you taking a Mac 10 to school perhaps, but definitely not doing anything brave. Bring on the flames, I KNOW it's the best you could ever manage... Cheers.

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Content First, I'm curious, if you don

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Content how easy it is to step in, briefly, and turn this discussion upside down, and into a nerd/fest about how much of an "asshole" i am. hypocritical for me to be here at all, yes i agree. but, call me a glutton for punishment. it amazes me to no end, how completely insecure LOTR fans are. and perry, or whoever posted about how Moaters has "a right to post his opinion about Indiana's list", or whatever horseshit you spewed out, yes, indeed Moaters does have that "right". and i also have the right to come on here, and continually amuse myself with apparently torturing LOTR fans with rants about how overrated these crapfests are. why does it constantly bother anyone, really, when someone bashes these flicks? i mean, do you all honestly have so little to look forward to in life that the arrival of the third picture is the most relevant thing available to your existence? and as for everyone "warning" me about how "dangerous" my comments to Moaters was, am i to gather that you all actually "know" each other, in person? if so, what in hell are you doing here constantly posting with each other? go out, and REALLY spend time discussing this shitfest of a trilogy, and then, maybe i can clean house in one evening of "nerd-cleansing". then again, you folks probablay are the types who are responsible for half the sick things that occur in the country. maybe i should be scared. after all, LOTR is your life. what would you have to lose in the first place? oh, and did i mention that TTT sucked? ok, good.

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Content People might find out who you really are and that'd wreck the joke. Cheers.

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Content I have to say, this remark you made...."AS if you'd ever have the ticker to even raise your voice against someome let alone "smash their teeth in"....made me laugh myself silly!! Excellent work!!!!! 'ticker'....hehe

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Content Ticker is a fairly common turn of phrase downunder, I'm sure you get what it refers to. Cheers.

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Content thats rich. its not possible to converse with any of you "tailenders". you take your films, and your internet way too seriously. no, i'm not backing off, as i've been accused of, and stating "oh, why do you all take my tirades so seriously?, blah blah blah... but, clearly i cannot relate to what value you all see in hanging out on talkbacks, and "seriously" discussing the merits or demerits of a film, without wanting to get comedy out of it all. what is the point? why do you feel a pressing "need" to do this? i don't understand it, and clearly i never will. that being said, i genuinely state for the record that i will see ROTK on opening night, not because i am looking forward to it, but because i'm a clod who thinks it important to get this event over with, so that i might be able to know truly that i saw it. its a neurosis. must be. and perry, are you sure you were with MY wife?