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Wez and Darth Sucubus say MATRIX REVOLUTIONS is all style and flash over substance and character...
Hey folks, Harry here with some very disappointed reviews of MATRIX REVOLUTIONS. If you don't want spoilers, don't read these... they get pretty specific - especially the second review. Let's hope the film really isn't nothing but visual fx work with dashes of character... The line from both reviews that really scares me is the one that says that Neo and Trinity and Morpheus are essentially Guest Stars in their own movie. Ouch....
If MATRIX REVOLUTIONS was a hard core porno film, it would be a succession of
"money" shots. Not in my memory has a film been filled with a succession of
ejaculatory fx shots that cover any semblence of story in goo. Forget
TERMINATOR 3. MATRIX REVOLUTIONS is the real rise of the machines, the ultimate triumph
of visuals over narrative. And as such, a stunning, crushingly disapointing
ending to what could have been the post-punk answer to the LORD OF THE RINGS
trilogy. Watching it, you feel like Dorothy after she's pulled back the wizard's
curtains. But there's no lovable geezer behind the curtains. Rather an insane
producer and two directors who've completely blown their minds on all the
visual fx toys that money can buy. There are few answers for the people who so
desperately waited in line to find out how to get back to Kansas. Rather, it's
an e-ticket to ILM with a few cursory explanations on the back. REVOLUTIONS is
a voyage that's worth taking in spite of itself to find out how the damn thing
wraps up, but you can't help but feel resentful by the end of it.
Those who faulted RELOADED for its endless metaphysical gobbledygook will
actually find themselves missing it here. REVOLUTIONS' lines are even more
fortune cookie in their maddening "can you guess what I'm talking about" minimalism.
And when the action starts, there's no talk at all. Like RELOADED, the first
half hour of REVOLUTIONS is a gabfest, with characters stumping like political
candidates, promising much without answering anything. Virtually all of this
is done within the Matrix, which doesn't make an appearance until the ending.
And the trip is nothing to write home about. A shiny, minimal train station,
an S & M club that's even more defanged than RELOADED's sweaty rave. Even
Lambert Wilson's wonderfully mincing Mergovician is pale here, with remote interest
provided by ROAD WARRIOR's Bruce Spence as a train program who owes more than
a bit to Vincent Schiavelli's more flavorful turn in GHOST. Only Mary Alice
as a new Oracle is able to give some dignity to the empty platitudes that stand
for the Warchowski's keys to the kingdom.
And upon the return to the real world, the battle of the machines starts. And
goes on. And goes on. And goes on. To the point where Neo and Trinity vanish
for what seems to be an hour. Imagine one of the fights in JEDI not cutting
away, and you'll get the idea. Sure the visuals are amazing. Some of the best
committed to screen. The kind of stuff that sucks the air out of your lungs with
the sheer imagination on hand. But the sheer relentlessness of it all
ultimately becomes tedious, numbing, then angering. Where are the characters? As an
equally disgruntled friend put it, "they're guest stars in their own movie."
Tools to pilot the fx with. REVOLUTIONS cardinal sin is in exhibiting none of
the wit or storytelling of the first film. Hell, even the second film.
REVOLUTIONS ends with a cosmic battle that's so cool that you can't help but
imagine Superman or Ultron in the characters' places. Anyone but the
characters on hand, who throw seventy punches when they could get by with ten. Yet for
how great all the airborne stuff is, the hand-to-hand combat is boringly
staged, about one step above RELOADED's teahouse fight. And by the end, you just
want Neo and Smith to get it over with. To reach some frigging answer. An
explanation. And when it "comes," the sentiments are pure cyberpunk Hallmark card
quality.
There is no victory without sacrifice. But the sacrifices in REVOLUTIONS seem
unusually hollow. Unworthy. Almost cheap. If this had the greatness of
Wagnerian opera, it would work- a la Ripley's plunge into the furnace at the ending
of ALIEN3- a far more interesting third film than this. But REVOLUTIONS is so
committed to its spectacle that the sudden injection of tragic humanity seems
like an arbitrary afterthought. It pisses you off rather than making you feel.
While RELOADED never quite worked, there was a kind of crazy-quilt greatness
to it. Without enough neatness to almost make you forgive the flaws.
REVOLUTIONS amounts to one great big "huh?" Joel Silver, a producer prone to spectacles
of the best and worst kind, has given the Warchowskis the run of the ship.
And they've just plain gone crazy,. THE MATRIX may not have had an original bone
in its body, but it somehow made everything new again with a sense of
character-driven imagination that turned this into one of the best science fiction
films ever. And the Warchowskis probably should have stopped there. If the
MATRIX RELOADED worked because of the expectations it set up, MATRIX REVOLUTIONS
stumbles under the weight with all of the technical possibilities that Silver's
money can buy. And the Warchowskis have run with into the ground with their
ejaculatory reliance on fx. Somehow, Neo, Trinity and Morpheus are still lost in
the matrix, despite the film's "finality." Indeed, THE PHANTOM MENACE seems
like a triumph of character development in comparison to REVOLUTIONS. And
probably the saddest thing about these two MATRIX sequels is that there's far more
imagination and personality afforded to the Warchowski's concepts in THE
ANIMATRIX. Perhaps REVOLUTIONS would have worked in anime, but not when you want
flesh and blood from the people you've grown to care about. And the directors
who handle humanity with the precision of a computer animator.
WezBEWARE OF SPOILERS!!! Darth Sucubus isn't happy about MATRIX REVOLUTIONS and spills beans... Watch out!
"radio" writes the screenplay for matrix revolutions!
...or so it seemed. i saw a screening last night in ny with my fifteen year old son
and his friend. and all i have to say is, "so the machines and the humans decide to
LIVE TOGETHER IN PEACE AND HARMONY?!?!" what??
that's right. that's the big dopey ending. peace and harmony. what a joke.
the so-called big battle betwixt the machines and MTV-Spring-Break-Zion is
okay. there's a lot of yelling and bullets and it seems to go on forever. (sarcasm
coming up next) oh there's this really great character! he's a kid and he's 16 and he
ain't never been to a war before but he wants to fight real bad. to save zion and all.
gee Wally, he's just got to fight! All the kids are doing it! Oh, and there's this tough
old general, who don't "cotton to no greenhorn in his outfit"... oh yeah i've seen
it all before. we've all seen it all before.
and whoever designed the really cool fight-suits with giant guns (ala Aliens Dockloaders)
obviously didn't think building a shield to protect the human driver was a good idea.
and they somehow figured that it would be okay if the guns had to be reloaded via a
wheelbarrow!! A WHEELBARROW!!
Oh, the greenhorn kid sort of saves the day. And that makes the old general guy
awful proud.
but the zion-fight does at least get the heart pumping which is more than i can say
for the first hour. the dialog is simply laughable. think George-Lucas-awful.
"just one kiss before i die..." there were more than a few guffawing at the campy dialog.
the big battle between neo and mr smith is a fairly big snooze as well. it lasts all of five
minutes and neo fights only one mr smith for some dopey reason.
there's a few cool things that happen. Very very few. i won't say what they are
because if i give those rare few moments away there will literally be NO REASON
whatsoever to see this film.
and the big ending... the climax of this three-part epic is... the machines and the humans
live in peace. yep. they're going to free any human battery that want's to be free and
they can go ahead and live in peace.
i never thought i'd say this but it's actually worse than Reloaded! it's not just a bad
Matrix film... it a bad movie!
i'm really glad i didn't pay for it. buy some candy.
you'll need it to get the rotten taste out of your mouth.
--
Darth Sucubus
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+ Expand All
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It'll be good.
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Kinda felt when I walked out of "Reloaded" that we were building up to this sort of ending. Symbiosis and all that. You couldn't end the trilogy with humans on the surface of a completely trashed planet saying "Yay, we won!"
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Harry's gonna dump on this one too... we're never going to hear the end of it.
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Godfather 3, Return of the Jedi, Police Academy 3 -- the list goes on. The exceptions are, well, exceptions. I pray ROTK will ROCK. Big advantage: It's the natural end of a cohesive story instead of a tacked-on sequel. Hell, even Matrix Reloaded is a tacked-on sequel. Blech.
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Worse then Matrix Retarded (sorry, mentally disabled)? See what too many drugs and too much money do to a franchise (see G. Lucas). Thanks for turning a cool movie premise into nothing but bloated cgi masturbation.
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Oct 31, 2003 5:26:06 PM CST
Yeah, Roger Friedman said the same thing. Too bad. It will sti
by fluffyunbound
Even I may go to see it. Too curious to stop myself.
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I was pleasantly surprised by Reloaded - I guess all the negative reviews in advance of me seeing it lowered my expectations so much that I walked out of the theatre saying, "It wasn't THAT bad."
And I wasn't in on the original Matrix phenomenon ... I only saw the movie for the first time on DVD and it took me several viewings to start to appreciate it. My initial reaction to the movie was fairly negative.
So I'll go into Revolutions and take it for what it is. If it's a "humans and machines live happily ever after" ending, so be it, if it's done well, because in the confines of the story, humans have wiped out the biosphere of earth and shutting off the Matrix would lead to the destruction of all of humanity, so the choices available are pretty limited.
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The Matrix was just fine as it was and didn't need any sequel - especially not the mediocre ones they seem to have made.
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I still think the Warchowski's best film is Bound, a film that was very tight and had a feeling of minimalism to it. They had few characters, and few locales. The problems with the Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions are they have too many characters and too many places. The main characters you had in the Matrix were a small cohesive group. Then you started throwing in all these new characters and places. I kept thinking that Reloaded had a lot of new characters that seemed to just get thrown away. It sounds like that is the same problem here, that the Warchowski
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Oct 31, 2003 6:38:54 PM CST
Revolutions trailer looks so bad that it makes Reloaded look goo
by super cucaracha
I am not going to lie, I will see it on theatre but my expectations will be so low like my nutsack. If I get my hopes up, I will probably be dissapointed. Keanu simply has no acting soul...they should have gotten Johnny Depp as Neo and cut off all the Prophecy Talk Bullshit because I am really starting to hate Morpheus and root for Agent Smith. By the way, What's up with all the no facial expression acting crap? Motherfuckers look like they belong on a Zombie movie!
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Looks like this film will suck like the star wars prequels. I love The Matrix, but I am very disapointed. The Wachowski's have blown it. If what we are hearing is true. Oh well at least theres... oh wait never mind. After the way Jackson Fucked TTT (I still like the movie just think it's glaring plot holes are terrible) I am worried about ROTK. My faith in Lucas is none existent. Kill Bill 2 will be good, but that's about it. WEEEEEE CINEMA IS DEAD!!! WEEEEEE!!! what a load of shit...
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Oct 31, 2003 7:06:40 PM CST
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....*sigh*...ha ha ha ha h
by hardcorerocker
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Oh man, I knew it. I fuckin knew it. Brilliant reviews. Thank you to those people who see that the Matrix started cool but became all about the style. www.rockithardcore.com
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There's something wrong with a peaceful resolution to the conflict between man and machine? After the first two films introduced us to benign machine intelligences like the Oracle and the Keymaker, would wiping out all machine intelligence really be the right ending for the Matrix series? I mean, as long as we kick their ass first, peace is fine ...
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Oct 31, 2003 7:14:35 PM CST
"THE PHANTOM MENACE seems like a triumph of character developmen
by magyarman
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Oct 31, 2003 7:15:09 PM CST
"Warchowski"....apparently that first review was written by Coac
by magyarman
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH...(catching breath)...AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA...
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I don't think this Wez guy knows what he's talking about - "Perhaps REVOLUTIONS would have worked in anime". The Matrix IS essentially anime.. Live action anime. When you look at the cinematography and the characters and well.. the whole concept/idea of The Matrix films, it's hard to argue that it's not an anime. Just looked at Boogiepop Phathom, Akira, or Fooly Cooly.. are those exactly crystal clear? To me, that's what anime is all about.. innovative story telling. God forbid you'd have to think while watching a movie. Also, comparing this to Star Wars?.. didn't see that one coming (hence the sarcasm). Get off the band wagon already; these films are totally different from each other. I'll say it again: THE MATRIX is not STAR WARS. I wish reviewers would stop comparing / contrasting new Sci-fi films with every other Sci-fi film that's come before it. Also, I think this post earlier had a point.. there's no way you can end this trilogy with all the minds freed and all the machines destroyed. Imagine that.. all of humanity frees their mind from The Matrix.. they notice they're all naked swimming in a pod filled with red goo.. they all die from seizures. Jesus, that ending would be sadder than Titanic's. In the Real World, the humans created these machines and now they must deal with the circumstances caused by them. Well that's all I got. I can't wait to see Revolutions for myself on Nov. 5. I'm sure I'll like it (but then again, maybe I won't.. just have to wait and see). Oh yeah, one more thing: am I the only one who hates that Harry O' Lantarn in the upper left hand corner? *shudders* MAN.. that thing gives me the creeps..
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Oct 31, 2003 7:32:55 PM CST
Screw both those guys, the Matrix: Revolutions will be good!!
by jarjar25
Just got back from visiting this site! http://www.popcultureshock.com/reviews.php?id=2601
The reviewer there tells a much different story from what these two assholes are saying. All our questions do get answered, plus were given a very moving ending to what has been a great trilogy that surpasses those piece of shit Star Wars prequels. Other people responded to this guy at that site, including people that have seen it as well. They all say it's great. I think were going to be in for an extremely good film that was more than worth the wait. For those of you freaking out that the film is bad. Do not despair, because it sounds like it's going to be very good.
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is that there is NO WAY I would want to live in Zion. The place looks like a complete shithole. Plug me back into that bitch machine RIGHT NOW!.
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Oct 31, 2003 7:55:09 PM CST
The biggest burn....hahah..there goes "this Generation's Star Wa
by bong
omg..too funny
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if i sound like an asshole? you sound like a PLANT!
trust me. this movie sucks! -
Oct 31, 2003 8:12:18 PM CST
Remember how great the first matrix was compared to that overblo
by filthy fox
It was like a real movie and not some water downed summer piece of shit. FUCK THE MATRIX SEQUELS! ha! i told them!
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The sad part is I will ACTUALLY pay to go see this self-indulgent, piece of shit vanity piece. Why? I'm a fanboy sucker. Maybe I'll pay for another flick(Radio or Sea-Biscuit or whatever the fuck)and hop theaters. Fuck these arrogant asshole Wachowski Brothers, they're not stealing MY hard earned cash.
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You THOUGHT you knew what Matrix Reloaded was going to be about, didn't you? But then you were wrong, at least if you were one of the many die-hard fans of the original who were disappointed with the second. I feel like many were let down by what was NOT there in Reloaded, where as I was blown away (that may be a little strong) by what WAS. But then, I have a hard time fathoming the direction many of you thought the sequels were going to go. Neo's crusade to free all humanity by making them realize they were enslaved, just as Morpheus revealed to him? Disconnecting them one by one from their incubation pods, rescuing every single dumped human with a hovercraft? I don't know, I guess that could have worked, but I like what they did by exploring the various nonhuman denizens of the Matrix, thereby making it something more than I thought it was, something with "flavor." Or were you disappointed by Neo's lack of omnipotence? Man, that would have been boring, but look, he WAS alot more powerful than in the first: He can easily take on multiple agents now, even though they've been "upgraded." He can stop bullets or other items of smallish mass by simply manipulating the Matrix. He still has to fight the agents and the rogue programs hand to hand because they are powerful entities unto themselves, and their weapons can be considered extensions of themselves, unlike the bullets, which follow the laws of the Matrix and which the rogue programs have no control over. Neo also has a form of X-ray vision, because he can see the Matrix in code form. He can fly, and it was awesome, but lay off with the "why didn't he just fly away from the Agent Smiths?" He did, when he realized it was a losing battle, and as soon as he got the chance (remember, he's got to do that cool little reality-altering prep move before he can take off). And he can heal mortal wounds inside the Matrix. Not even Superman can do that. And don't forget he now has some control over the Machines outside the Matrix. Don't tell me Neo stopping the Sentinel in the real world didn't make sense-- it's pretty obvious that the Matrix is somehow imprinting itself in his very mind, much as Agent Smith is now able to control humans in the real world. There is some bleed-over between the real world and the virtual world now, and it should come as no surprise. I wasn't one of the folks scratching my head at the end, thinking, "wait, are they still in the Matrix?" No, Neo, perhaps because of his "melding" with Agent Smith at the end of the first film, or perhaps just due to his intense connection to the machine world, and his "function" as the One who must reset the Matrix, now has some influence over the machines in the real world, and anyone else who realized that was validated by the shots in the trailer for Revolutions. And all that "throw-away" philosophising about the interdependence of the machines and people was NOT throw-away, and again we see it borne out in the unfortunatley spoiled ending revealed in the second review up there. Machines and people really do need each other, and the only reason I'm not really pissed at knowing the end is that I already suspected that was how it would conclude. So quit reading this now if you're still assiduously avoiding spoilers, but what I figured is that the humans and the machines now have a common enemy, and I know I'm not the only one to come to this conclusion, but it's obvious that Agent Smith is actually now a VIRUS, infecting both the Matrix and now the real world as well. And the machines need Neo's help. So here's a hearty toast to the (much unperceived) brilliance of Matrix Reloaded, and what is hopefully still a promising direction for the series, if you can manage to "free your mind" from what you thought the series was about or how it was supposed to end.
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It's screwing up the talkback width, and spoilin' Episode III!
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I always find it fascinating that fanboys always say "Well, if you don't like Matrix Reloaded, you obviously don't get it." I get it just fine. Problem is, it's STUPID. Reloaded, and apparently Revolutions, are proof that "The Matrix" was an anomoly - an accidentally well-made movie. The two sequels expose the Wachowski's as the true third-rate filmmakers that they are.
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Whaaa. I like Bob Toddler's post.
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I'm not a plant! Just go over to that website I posted earlier, because those guys speak the truth. I really think you didn't see this movie or are a Star Wars fan in disguised. The person who reviewed the film over at PopCultureShock sounds like he new what he was talking about, plus he didn't give away spoilers like you and the other idiot did. Say what you want about this film, but no one believes you. Matrix-Revolutions is here!
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...then all I have to say to the Matrix fans is: "Ha Ha" (a la Nelson Munce). Machines and people living together in harmony,that's so funny!
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Turnabout is fair play.
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You see, when you argue against something that is obviously sophisticated and thought requiring/provoking by saying "it's stupid," you are simply making his point. Sadly, most people who like to criticize Reloaded and now Revolutions seem to have a VERY hard time doing so intelligently, so they whine. "It's Stupid" translates into, "I wasn't spoon fed by this film and as a result, it went over my head, pity me." Similarly, when a reviewer bitches about how the humans and machines reaching a peace being "a joke," he is really saying, "i was dissatisfied with the fact that there isn't a black and white good/evil resolution at the end, this ying/yang duality shit is for pussies."
Now, I am not arguing that to understand Reloaded is to love it. But if you are going to dislike it, dislike it for what it is, not because you coudln't be bothered to strain your poor mind. -
i'm sorry but what can i say!! i'm european, from portugal (a country 95% of you doesn't know where it is)and
the rest of the world has the idea that americans are plain stupid!!! (with some exceptions, of course) and with these reviews and reactions... that idea seems to be pretty right... why can't you apreciate a fucking movie that doesn't end has you wanted to?? and why is it that if you see a negative review most of you guys, without seeing the movie, just decide to hate it?? are you guys dumm to the point of not waiting to get your own conclusions??? and about the matrix trilogy... have you all forgoten that the whachowskys invented all of the fucking matrix world??? i mean... you don't go and tell shakespeare how should hamlet end... or tell picasso what's on is paintings!! get real... one thing is to say that you don't like the matrix, period; another thing is to get sorry excuses no to like it... like that there are similar fight suits on alien???!!! jezz let's ban all movies with starships post star trek... why not??? you gotta open your mind... by the way, darth sucubus... neo fight's one smith because that smith is the one cloned in the oracle!!
greating's from europe -
Anyone who thinks any part of Alien 3 was worthwhile loses my confidence. Guess I'll see for myself on Wednesday. There is no defending Alien 3 as anything than ruinous tripe.
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Oct 31, 2003 9:07:21 PM CST
please!! I know all you matrix bashers are just all little six y
by quartermain5
All of you guys make being a fan of cinema SHITT!!!
First of all Harry you have to be one of the most vindictive most emotional critics i have heard of! All I've seen on this site are negative reviews on revolutions! Except for those twp planted reviews that made me sick. All the other Film sites have steady dose of positive reviews and a handful of negative ones yet you of all people wanna put the negative ones on your site in big bold letters cause you know these stupid psychotic fanboys would have a field day with this because its cool to bash the matrix RIGHT!
And you fanboys!!! you guys are worst of all. 90% of all you havent even seen Revolutions and your all over it as if it slept with your make believe girlfriends. Are you guys so blind that you cant see that Harry only puts the negative reviews on his site to feed the haters and to scorn the fans because of the backlash that he recieved for reviewing reloaded?
Also this is by far the only site talkback that bashes on Reloaded sure it wasnt perfect but it was defintely a worthy sequel to the matrix. If you want a true and decent review wait for Moriarty's review or go to chud they'll give you a unbiased review but dont ever hate on a movie just because you like to piss people off, or becasue your jealous that these sequels are better than your beloved star wars prequels, or whatever lame excuse you have its stupid and beneath all of you! Grow up! I've said my peace -
Quote: "There is no victory without sacrifice"
The guy pinched that from ROTK trailer. Ripoff!
And can't you see a pattern here? Star Wars TPM was shit in many ways, then AOTC comes out and people say TPM was better. Now it's the Matrix's turn... -
OK, I think Toddler's post is funny too, and it doesn't really spoil Ep 3 unless you already managed to spoil it for yourself, but the real reason I'm being a crybaby is because it makes my longwinded diatribe difficult to read.
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You can easily weed out the open minded calm person from the medicated. Put your money where your mouth is... translation... people that bash these films still bought the dvd and will buy the last one! You hypocrites all know who you are. These reviews are total trash. I'll wait for Mori's review or Neil Crumpston's but not this crap. I mean getting all bent outta shape cuz a movie has to much fx is the most stupid pansy ass exsuse to complain about anything in a film. If the fx serve the purpose of the story then it's ok... dear god how did you want the final battle between man and machine to play out? Without any fx? Or hazy dream sequences told by some old drunk one eyed man in Zion played by Anthony Hopkins who uses cigerette butts as action figure to tell the charcters story? YAWN!!! Fu*k off with your nit picky waste of bytes for my web browser.
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that the Matrix Revolutions would end like Jack Chalker's The Well of Souls books. In the series, the main character, Nathan Brazil, has lived so long that he forgot that he is God. Only at the end of race to the Well does he remember that he is God and "resets" the universe as he has done so many times before. Really one of the best Sci-Fi series every written and I would recommend it to any hard-core Matrix fan.
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1. I have dreamed a dream, but now that dream is gone from me.-----------This is exactly how I felt about Reloaded and all the bullshit that it spewed. Every single damn thing that I liked about the movie was thrown out the window and run over by a diesel truck. My love for everything Matrix was crushed, although I will admit that I still hold out some hope for Revolutions. 2. Denial is the most predictable of all human responses.-----------Thats a comment that all the people who continually defend Reloaded should read 1000. The movie is released, isnt nearly as Godly as people expected it to be and you say that "people didnt get it" or "its too deep for regular people". What piss poor excuses those happen to be. Some people dont blow a load over the movie and you resort to saying they didnt understand it? Others will agree that the movie raises a lot of questions, but does that mean its the great collection of philosophy to be ever seen in a movie. The Bros. tried to incorporate it in an overly deep manner, but they failed miserably.
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Oct 31, 2003 9:52:25 PM CST
Allow me to cry "bullshit" on these two reviews...(spoiler free)
by k0ny
I attended the NY screening last night as well, with a handful of friends. The general consensus when leaving the theater was "WOW! That was amazing! Much better than Reloaded." Granted we don't watch films to critique the directors or producers on how we think the film could have been better. We just watch for a fun escape from reality. When cool shit happens we laugh and cheer instead of shaking our heads about how we're seeing too much of a good thing. It's obvious from the first review that the person hates the concept of sequels, special FX, big budgets, and specifically the directors of this film. He's met his goal of finding the film's flaws, but what fun is that? The second guy can barely form a sentence, much less take in the full scope of what was flashing on the screen before him. In a nutshell, the action is what this trilogy is about. Revolutions delivers the money shots because it is the final epic chapter in a series of films which have made a name for themselves by raising the bar on the action genre. There was just enough dialog and depth for me here on a Thursday night at the movies. Anyone who leaves this film angry didn't deserve to be admitted to its screening in the first place. My group couldn't stop talking about all the cool parts in the film afterwards until one of us pointed out that we had pretty much discussed every scene already. Revolutions will make money hand over fist and the folks who created it deserve every cent.
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So, you are unable to question the movie or find faults in it since its a "fun escape from reality". Thats just as bad as saying: "it's just a movie" and been devoid of any feeling other sweaty palms afer seeing "cool" stuff, which in facts turns out to be 120 minutes cgi.
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They didn't need to make 2 films. Just one big sequel! I think Kill Bill may go the same way. But for gods sake, look at what hollywood is trying to sell us with this film, Zionistic religion, war, and peace if we just obey.
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The problem with reviews like this is that it becomes a competition to see which fanboy can gleefully take the biggest swing at a big-movie-pinata. And you just know all of them sat down to whichever preview screening they got their boyfriend to let them in to with the attiude 'gee, let's find things wrong with this movie, then run home and post it on the internet so I can look like the coolest guy with Darth in front of my name.' And you can't trust the opinion of someone who thought ANY scene in Alien 3 - sorry, Alien3 - had the greatness of Wagnerian opera.
Fact is that Reloaded was a great movie. It suffered from some clunky dialogue at times, the scene where that chick in the restaurant ate the cake then came was stupid, and the traffic battle scene was too long, but the movie was still damned good, and some absolutely kickass moments.
And before that film, all the fanboy sites were full of dipshits talking about how it was a let down from the first film. I didn't believe them then, and when I saw Reloaded, I though it was great.
I haven't seen Revolutions yet, and I bet a lot of the people here who are saying how much it sucks haven't, either, but when I do, I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy it, no matter how gleefully you stupid, greasy-fingered buffoons try to whine about it. I've seen Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. You people are all queers.
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That talking scene in My Dinner With Andre was way too long. Airplane! had too many gags. Man, some people will never be satisfied. I cannot wait to see Revolutions.
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Oct 31, 2003 10:43:22 PM CST
Thanks for the reviews, folks -- you've only confirmed the reaso
by johnny ahab
And I'm tired of hearing the people who liked it saying to the MANY of us who didn't that "we didn't get it" or "we're too stupid to recognize all the philosophical complexity blah blah blah". I loved the film for its simplicity and BECAUSE I CARED ABOUT THE CHARACTERS. Yes, much of the stuff onscreen was INCREDIBLY COOL -- but it was in service to the story and its own nutty logic. The first one blew me away and I COULDN'T WAIT to see the second one. And RELOADED broke my heart. All of the characters that I got so involved with in the first film became cardboard automatons in the second. Waaaay too much yammering, pretentiousness, and repetitive, boring action scenes. We've SEEN Neo do kung fu/wire fu/ass-kickin' fu all over the first film. Then we get more of it -- when he's now Superman, and so there are NO STAKES -- because you know he will beat everyone. Why didn't he get to fight the Ghosty Twins, who might have been a challenge for him? I could go on and on and on why Reloaded just killed me. And for all the shit blowing up, it didn't matter. I was bored. Yes, BORED by a film that fell in love with its action set pieces, and filmmakers who believed their own hype and hubris. They forgot what made the first one work -- the interplay between the characters, with the amazing fx layer ON TOP of that and in SUPPORT of that. Ah, forget it, why keep ranting. I ain't going to see the 2nd one out of protest. I wanted to claw my eyeballs out after Reloaded, and I was depressed for days after. Can't even watch THE MATRIX as RELOADED so polluted that experience. Maybe someday I will again. But yes, MATRIX shoulda been a stand-alone. And if there are others who feel like I do, DON'T GO NEXT WEEK! Send a message to Joel Silver, Warner Bros. and the Pompous Brothers. Throw your dough at a deserving little indie. And if you go, and you're disappointed, well, you wuz warned by these early reviews.
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let me be the first one on this talkback to declare you a complete asshole.
Alien 3 was great, and only a loudmouth clown with an attention span equivalent to that of a burned out lightbulb would fail to be aware of that. oh, but wait, i forgot that you're part of "Gen Y", which basically amounts to "if it don't blow up, and tell me over and over what the plot is, and what symbolism is staring me in the face, then i can't understand it". fucking moron.
also, what is up with this crazy talk about a Matrix film having style over substance? thats utter nonsense, for we all know that a Matrix film has neither style NOR substance.
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OK, I just have to say something to you guys crying about how bad the movie is if you haven't seen it yet. Alot of people said Reloaded sucked, it didn't; alot of critics said the first movie was "pure nonsense", it definitely wasn't. I enjoyed the first two movies better after the second and third viewings, so hopefully the same will be true for Revolutions. After the first time I saw Reloaded, I thought alot of the speeches were a bit much, but now I really like most of them. Although I certainly have problems with Reloaded, I still think it is a great movie. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Revolutions is another step below Reloaded, I find it hard to believe it could reek as much as alot of people are saying. Oh and Darth Succubus, how could you be shocked that the machines and humans make peace? The movie is called Revolution(s)! Plural. Let's see, the humans have their revolution, I wonder who else could? It is the only answer.(Besides some bizarre twist that I think we all knew wouldn't happen.) How else would the Zionists unplug 6 billion humans without a fully functioning matrix and help from machines? No it probably won't be as good as Reloaded, and there is no doubt it won't be as good as The Matrix, but let's see the movie before we hang the Wachowskis.
Oh, and I'm happy to see the two spoilers didn't mention anything about the twins,(we know they are in the movie from imdb) I really hope Neo becomes a ghostbuster. -
Aliens 3 was complete shit, and yes
I am old enough to have sen the
first one when it was released. -
Ok, so the second one wasn't so bad.... but seriously, anyone who messes up the spelling (and most likely pronunciation) of MEROVINGIAN and WACHOWSKI shouldn't really be writing reviews about this trilogy... I want to see a real fan of this thing go in and say it's bad... the first posting was a good review, and has been followed by ones that were intelligent but didn't quite understand the many levels... If I were to somehow see this movie I believe I could be fair, but alas, I know the matrix more than some....
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Lay off the episode three spoilers. And I am glad you have your unwavering fanboy faith in lucas, but people do have the right to critisize something they have seen.
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Ive said this before and i'll say it again, People who review movies, and send them to harry with spoilers, are complete assholes. they don't care about your movie experience, They only want to sound off because they got to see the movie early. What would happen if Ebert told the ending of a movie?? hell he would probably get sued,
Harry you should take more responsibility about requesting reviews spoiler free...It's why we go to the movies, I didn't even read what was above because when i go to the movies I wanna feel those sensations I paid for. surprise, Shock, everything else I WOULDNT get if I read all these damn reviews that reveal everything I should expect in the movie..
And people who DO read it are cheating themselves out of the experience. -
if u seen my rants before..u know theyre caused by people that are so called movie people....u know, people that get to see all the movies i have to pay for, free. why does it always seem that these people are the last people in the world that should be reviewing movies or even given the privilege of seeing all the great movies early. why ? just so they can rip the movie to shreds before it comes out cuz it dont live up to their over realistic expectations..movies will never totally satisfy everyone. the guy that reviewed "revolutions" says he went with his 15yr old son or something like that. well i think it was the 15r old that wrote the article. the guy has to still live at home with mommy and daddy, dont pay any rent or bills and i bet he has video games and porno's and humps his pillow every nite cuz hes too geeky to get a real woman. for some reason there is a handfull of GEEKS that write for this site that think that movies are all about dialougue and story....guess what dickhead, most people dont care if there are giant holes in a storyline, i for one love special effects and can ignore holes in storylines and i for one will be one of the first in line to see "revolutions" when it comes out, not so i can ejaculate in my pants over the "awsome" dialogue, but so i can say "cool" and "awsome" in abundance the same way i did during "reloaded" which once again was one of t he greatest movies made in recent years. if u want dialogue and drama go rent a woody allen or a barbara streisand movie, i and many of my friends, male and female want to see FX up the ass..f*ck the story...THIS IS WHY I DONT UNDERSTAND WHEN I APPLIED FOR A WRITING JOB HERE I DIDNT GET A RESPONSE...U PEOPLE NEED ME REVIEWING MOVIES AND NOT THESE WIMPS THAT CANT WIPE THEIR OWN ASS AND STILL BREAST FEED WITH MOMMY AND THINK THAT SUCKIN ON MOMMYS NIPS MAKE THEM A MAN...
get real guys... -
Exactly. I don't see the fucking problem with the Matrix Reloaded. i think some of these people WANT to be disappointed. No idea why
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Nov 01, 2003 2:39:29 AM CST
You will never convince me the Wack. Bros. had sequels originall
by jules windex
Silver probably said they needed a trilogy, cuz everything HAS to be a trilogy, so they came up with one film's worth of story and padded it with all that long-winded, repetitive, tedious as hell dialogue, which Matrix apologists actually bought into as being deep and profound.
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The ending with a truce between man and machines is beautiful and relevant with today's times. This is how real wars usually end, people. You don't just exterminate the other side in a real war. You try to get rid of the extreme elements in the other side (i.e. Agent Smith, or say Al Qaeda in the war on terror) and then make a truce with the remaining reasonable elements on the other side. This is a great message for today's times. The second reviewer seems like a typical uber-macho dick-waving dad who balks at the words "peace" or "harmony" and wants a big nuke dropped on the Middle East or someplace. What a meathead.
As for the first reviewer, he actually quotes the line "There is no victory without sacrifice" from the ROTK trailer. He probably watches the ROTK trailer ten times everyday, obsessing over it and jizzing his pants all day in repeat-motion. Which makes his opinion irrelevant.
People who get off on watching an entire species exterminated (like the orcs) can wait till mid-December or whenever. Matrix Revolutions is for the rest of us. -
It SUCKS! After turning into Superman, Neo ends up a the new Gandhi!
Perhaps they needed a TITANIC ending to get more females into the cinema.
All sing after me, "All we are saying is give peace a chance."
Ah well, at least the next Riddick film is in production.
Peace man! -
Nov 01, 2003 4:19:04 AM CST
Here's a wacky idea: before getting your undies in a bunch how a
by commando cody
Really, I can't understand why everyone's so willing to bag on movies these days sight unseen. A real geek would just love the chance to see a new genre film... a real geek movie fan would just be happy to see a new movie, PERIOD. So why not throttle the heated rhetoric down a few notches and do just THAT? And then make the final decision about a movie's "quality" (pro or con) AFTER SEEING IT YOURSELF. Sheesh, it's just a movie -- it's not like the fate of a Middle East peace plan hangs in the balance here. I look at it this way: if nothing else, based on the first two films and the way I enjoyed them, I'm sure REVOLUTIONS will give me my 8 bucks worth while getting me out of the house for a Saturday afternoon. So I'll go, see the flick, have some fun, then go eat Mexican and get smashed on marguaritas. Sounds like a plan to me!
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Nov 01, 2003 4:32:16 AM CST
"If this had the greatness of Wagnerian opera, ala the ending of
by commando cody
Best laugh out line on AICN tonight. For a minute there, I actually thought Wez was serious about believing ALIEN 3 was either interesting or great -- which is a sheer scientific impossibility since that movie was a TOTAL shitfest from start (the ridiculous wasted deaths of Newt and Hicks) to end (truly God awful acting by Sigourney and her ultra-hammy and laugh out loud "I'll now toss myself into the fire" ending). Uh, wait...Wez WAS kidding, right????
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I find it amazing that so many people in the Matrix lunatic fringe measure people's intelligence and open-mindedness by whether or not they like these movies. There are an overabundance of statements on Matrix talkbacks along the lines of "If you don't like the Matrix, it's because you are too stupid to understand it." I haven't seen the 3rd movie, so I don't know if it will be any good. But, these reviews don't sound promising. But, have you people that bash others for not being open minded even considered that maybe these movies are not as good as you think? There is a differece between liking something, and that thing being artistically worth while. I like a lot of crap movies, movies that are fun to watch but have very little artistic merit (That sums up about 90% of what Hollywood puts out), I don't don't ever feel the need to tell people they are stupid if the don't like movies like "Caddyshack" or "Big Trouble in Little China". Apparently the insertion of pop-Philosophy into a movie makes you stupid if you don't like the movie.
Hugolpg, your comparison/question about people bitching about this ending and "would you tell Shakespeare how to end Hamlet?" is just plain crazy talk. First the Matrix isn't Shakespeare, not even close. Second, Hamlet is a revenge tragedy, so it has to end that way, it's required by the genre.
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If you didn't see this ending coming when Neo and that Council Guy were talking in the engineering section of Zion, then you're truly retarded.
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Nov 01, 2003 9:54:38 AM CST
I'd sort of disapprove of the spoilers, if I had any intention o
by the_thin_man
Which I don't, after the overlong tripe that was "Reloaded". The pity of it is that the first "Matrix" was rather a good film. Crap kung-fu aside, it got my blood racing, which all of "Reloaded"'s stupid CGI effects, awful dialogue (okay, the first one's dialogue was pretty bad, but never quite stepped over the line to overblown pretension as the second one's did) and lo-o-o-ong action scenes completely failed to do. In fact, I'm kind of glad for the spoilers, because I want to know how it's supposed to end. And now I do, without having to pay
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But he is arguing against a straw man. I haven't heard ANYONE - not one single solitary person - accuse the Wachowskis of making the Matrix sequels solely for the money. We are not talking about the Police Academy series here. No one doubts that these movies are utterly and completely sincere attempts to expand the universe of the first film and to advance the craft of filmmaking. And for that, they deserve credit, and they deserve the $250 million this movie is going to make. No one is saying that the Wachowskis are jerks. They are saying that they have made story choices and character choices that make the sequels inferior to the first film. That's where the second-guessing comes from. If Reloaded had hooked me the way the first film did, I would not have bothered to try to talk about different ways the story could have gone.
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Nov 01, 2003 11:41:46 AM CST
Matrix - a revolution not in SF but in action; Reloaded - just p
by tadziolives!
Someone who says THE MATRIX really doesn't know anything about Philip K. Dick, William Gibson or others. The movie (like Star Wars) makes a salad of references which, mixed in a pop-culture blender, results in coolness that the public is avid to buy and call "revolutionary". If there was any revolution in the first Matrix, it was in terms of action, since at least in Western cinema nothing like that was seen - although that was old news for all of us who already knew Jet Li and John Woo. RELOADED was plain boring, and even Morpheus - who was the best character in the first movie - was just a dull politician who seemed to be taken from the worst scene from THE PHANTOM MENACE. And now REVOLUTIONS seems to be a disappointment, because the minimum the promise of fun the first had, is gone.
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... it took George Lucas twenty-five years to go from cinematic god to lame, old, bloated greedhead. It only took the Wachowskis 4 years to go from postmodern wunderkind to 2nd rate George Lucases.
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Even though 'Reloaded' was a bit of a let down and I'm not one of those guys that's flogged Harry over his review for it, I'm beginning to wonder (and perhaps he doesn't even realize it himself) whether he's got some sort of bias over the Matrix series. I don't know how much control he has over which reviews get posted up, or if they're all pretty much demonstrative of the same thing, or if he's posted up every single 'Matrix Revolutions' review he's received so far, but I do know that his glib comments preceding each review wouldn't be there if this were a review for 'Return of the King;' we'd get something like "this guy must be crazy or on some form of drugs." Instead, we get "so-and-so said something bad about the Matrix. Ouch." Like I said Harry, I'm all for listening to your opinion as a reviewer and I won't knock you for laying it down however you feel it should be, but at least wait until you SEE the movie before you start exercising those powers.
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I'm tired of all this matrix bashing. In a time where hollywood is just pumping mindless, corny movies. The Wachoski brothers and Silver has given us a movie that goes far beyond any thing that has ever been imagined. What is going to stop the Matrix and it follow ups? Lucus bullshit star wars prequels, The ressurection of the terminatior, or anyone riding the comic book movie bandwagon. Thank god for the matrix. Whether is perfect or not, the matrix and reloaded has shown me shit I may never see complished in action movie. Martial arts, gun battles, crazy scifi story, superhuman comic book like beings, anime like mech robots, what more do you want for an action movie. You guys just got to stop the hating and start appreciating. So if anyone want to debate this please do so. I not only love the matrix but I understand that is has set a new standards for what an action movie should be.
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Rumors online that Warners wants Larry and Andy to do Superman. Might be cool.
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Nov 01, 2003 3:56:29 PM CST
Fear not fellow moviegoers!! Alas, the Matrix is dead and gone.
by gil-galad12
No "jacking in" and learning cheesy Hong Kong-ey unrealistic stunts needed! Just grab your sword, adjust your helm, and prepare to meet the orc onslaught! To Minas Tirith we go! Forth Eorlingas!
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Nov 01, 2003 4:13:31 PM CST
These two "reviews" are even less convincing than the positive p
by gere's assgerbil
They tell us nothing new about the movie, so there is nothing to make me believe that either of these two jokers has even seen Revolutions. I'm perfectly open to the possibility that this movie is shit. I mean, let's face it. We've all gotten burned by hyped-up big budget garbage before (Jurassic Park 2, Godzilla, Alien 3, Spider-Man) so a lot of this negativity from Talkbackers is understandable. But I'm sticking with that long-winded plot synopsis posted by NeotheStampede on the last Revolutions posting. It actually had DETAILS about the movie and it made Revolutions out to be awesome. November 5th, people.
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Nov 01, 2003 4:16:25 PM CST
What character development. They have already been developed.
by matthooper8
These reviews are a joke.
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You see, to get engaged in any story you've got to have two simple ingredients. (1) characters worth caring about. (2) a conflict for them to face. Sometimes the conflict is emotional (When Harry Met Sally). Sometimes it's physical (LOTR, Raiders, etc). Sometimes it's spiritual (The Mission). Whatever it may be, you have to be concerned that the characters you care about stand to lose something important. One of the key reasons The Matrix worked was that the agents were scary. They were unbeatable. They kicked Morpheus's ass. When Neo fought Smith in the train station, you didn't know how the hell he was going to win. And he didn't. Then he got shot, died, was resurrected, and then he, himself, was invincible. Right at that moment, the Matrix series was over. You can't step back from that ending. You can't make him vulnerable again. You can't make the agents scary again when you've just watched Neo laugh off their bullets, get bored blocking their punches, and then simply explode them. The writers, directors, and producer, in attempting to extract money from the viewers, have been desperately trying to get us to believe that the Matrix, the agents, still pose a threat. Make Smith a "rogue" agent. Make cooler agents. Blah blah blah. None of it works, particularly when they can't get away from martial arts in the matrix as the mode of expressing the conflict. They either had to take the fight out of the Matrix, to the real world, where Neo is just another dude. Or they had to make Neo the villian. They probably never considered making Neo become the threat to overcome, because that wouldn't make good bank. And they have not yet been able to make conflict in the real world interesting or effective. From everything coming out about the plotlines they're following here, I have very little hope for this movie, other than as an exercise in special effects porn.
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To find out that Trinity was really an AI, come to the Matrix (both of them,Boring City and Zion) to experience the sufferings of humanity. It would tied up a lot of loose ends about how she's always at the right place at the right time when Neo needs her. But the reviewers are right; the last installment of the Animatrix is where 'Revolutions' should have begun.
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You want to talk about unrealistic? "Forth, Eorlingas!"
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...and Reloaded is a sinker. What's Revolutions going to be? That nasty gloppy stuff that happens after a night of drinking followed by overindulgence at Taco Bell? Probably. I hope they give George Lucas his writing credit in Revolutions... God knows he earned it. Oh, that's right, he didn't write that dialogue. My bad. I can't wait for RoTK! I haven't been this overwhelmed by a movie franchise since the original Star Wars films. Matrix fans bore me. Out.
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For those of you who says it sux before seeing the film, why does happy endings suck?
I thought an end to the war is what these Zion fools were fighting for all along. They never said anything about wiping out the machines.
If you want happy endings that suck, watch AI or Minority Report, the Spielberg twins of ending-suckiness. The Matrix isn't trying to be film-noir or another Blade Runner, so quit your bitching until the film comes out and it really does suck. -
I didn't read the fucking "review" because I knew it was going to be a bias piece of shit because...
1.) It came from this site- which has a hard on against the "W" brothers and it is all the more obvious now considering that I have read some great reviews on other sites and the U.S. Congressman my girlfriend works for got an advanced screening to the flick and said it was a great flick; and
2.) Darth Suckdick is a obvious Star Wars fan who is just mad that the prequels are a pile of fucking shit!
Fuck all yall bitches. I am going to see this flick on the 5th so Harry can suck his fat hairy balls if he thinks that he is such an opinion maker and shaper that he can influence people to not see this. Fuck you and I hope it backfires when Ghost Town comes out!
PS
I still love ya Fatass but you can really piss me off sometimes'
11/5/03! -
Keanu said so on that HBO making of. Took them 2 whole months. Always upping the ante - For the first movie they "invented" the concept of freeze-frame because they said they did. For the second movie they "invented" car chases because they built their own freeway. And for this one they invented rain and then - get this - 2 characters fight in it! It must kick ass.
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On my tape, the 3PO tractor beam line IS there! And, yes, I do remember Chewbacca's grunt. I really don't have a problem with the lines being new recordings (if they really are - they could have adjusted the levels of the original recordings). The fact that they are back in the film makes it flow a little better to me. Every time I watched one of the non-special edition versions after that first month in 1977, I kept hearing those lines in my head anyway!
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I just need to forget how trite this series is becoming.
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I am disapointed, becuase I wanted this film to be good. Some of you here hate the movie anyway (the original), but I don't see how most of you can sit around calling yourself film fans and wanting most films to crap and therefore failures. As far as The Lord of the Rings, or even STAR WARS (with hope Lucas will screw this one up so BAD that the crap he is trying to make these days will some how become something decent), I want them to suceed, I want them to be good. If you don't like it fine. As far as the original Matrix goes, I really like that movie, I don't know what it is exactly about it, i just enjoy the hell out of it. As far as the "cheap" wire tricks and philosophy 101, either you like it or you don't. The Matrix talked about the nature of reality, but it didn't beat you over the head with it (reloaded did unfortuanatly), anyone who bases their lives around the films (any film) as if they hold the central meaning of life, that is sad. I hate those type of fans. They make everything it to this overanalized shit that can't be enjoyed. Reloaded has points where it shines, but it trips it's self up by trying too hard, or at leas it seems that way. I know some real motherfuckers who bitch about fans of this series or that series, saying basicly the same things about the other that could and does apply to themselves. They aren't fans, they're extremists. The Extremists are so loyal to your series (so afraid that others will like something else more) that you attack and harass people about something you fear challanges it. You are the fundementalist christians who twist there belief system and want to murder everyone who's a sinner, or a heathen. Your assholes.
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Okay. Now that several other reviews have come in, those who read my review Harry posted a week ago know I was telling the truth. Matrix: Revolutions is a bad movie, period.
Since only the most easy-to-please and dumbed-down fans will actually be satisfied with Revolutions as the W siblings have realized it, I offer here an alternative story for how it might have been if what was set up in M and M:ReL was taken to its logical conclusion:
Matrix: Revolutions
We open with Neo on the table, and that ugly guy Smith took over opposite him. Both asleep.
The crew of the vessel discuss how Neo stopped those dreadlocked seeker robots with the force of his will and what it could mean.
Trinity is weak in the real world from the wound she suffered in the Matrix when she was shot at the end of Reloaded.
We cut to the Architect, pacing about his hall with all the monitors. He is watching Neo - every screen showing the same thing, until it catches the Architect's eye that Smith is popping up here and there on various screens. Finally the Architect turns to look at a screen with Smith's mug on it.
The Architect is incredulous, this has never happened before. "Hello," intones Smith in that smug drawl. "This is impossible!" the Architect shouts, "It has never happened this way before." Smith replies, "Ah, but change is good - so the saying goes. Let us say that I represent change, whereas Neo here [Smith's face on the screen looks to another screen of Neo lying on the table on the ship] is just a tedious iteration of your program - running the same track ... over and over and over again." "You are a rogue program! You have no business here!" the Architect shouts. Smith laughs, then, "I belong where I choose to go. You see. I am free. It is I, not Neo, which is the anomoly. Change can be painful I am told. Let us see how much pain you can withstand." A bolt of black lightning emenates from the white floor of the Architect's lair and zaps the old guy. We move close on the the Architect
as he clenches his fists, the room filling with white light as he seeks to strike back at Smith - somewhere in those screens. Laughter from Smith fills the room. "You don't know where I am, old man." "What is it you want now that you're free Smith?" asks the Architect. "Power, of course. But I don't yet know how I shall use it. On whom's side should I fight? Should I seek to replace you, perhaps? Or should I destroy the Matrix entirely?"
With that all of the screens go black, then quickly a spot of green light appears in the center of each, then expanding out until we see Neo again, lying on the table asleep. Camera pushes through one of the screens into the room with Neo, then into his closed eye.
... more -
... we visit Zion, and see the people there preparing for the onslaught of the drilling machines and those dreadlocked robots ... the huge chamber in which they live quakes with the seismic waves of the machines making their way toward them. An evacuation is in progress ... most of the people are being directed out, to other places where they might survive. We go again into that all white virtual-reality interface we saw some of the Zion technicians using as they direct the machinery and people of Zion ... suddenly one, than another technician interfacing the VR program is attacked by the Matrix: green light and bits of the familiar code attack the white - we cut to real people shutting off the interface and trying to save those attacked. Comments are made about how the Matrix is bringing the fight to the programs that run Zion's computers ... that the security of their software is becoming compromised - the machines attacking now on several fronts.
The older white guy who runs the council is present and seems strangely at ease despite the attack and the impending doom.
Neo wakes up, the evil guy controlled by Smith wakes up - both are groggy. Neo takes a discerning look and senses something is wrong, but takes no action. He inquires about Trinity and is taken to her. We end CLOSE on the bad guy.
Next, we see Smith as he swaggers past the Merovigian's security people, tossing them aside with just thoughts and a wave of the hand as he marches forthrightly toward the the Merovingian - who shows a trace of fear. "An impressive display," M says to Smith, "what is it you want?" Smith replies, "I want more power. You have programs I want. And I ... intend to take them." With that M and Smith engage in a battle - no wire-fu, but much more primal - with bystanders (programs) getting vaporized in the process. M threatens to wipe Persephone, to which Smith says, "Go ahead," as Smith seems to covet her and want her for himself. In the climax of the fight, we see Smith actually reach into the M and rip his code right out of him to kill him. Smith says to Persephone, "You belong to me now."
Morpheus, Naobi, Trinity, the other more notable characters assemble with Neo to plot a plan of action. They want to know what it means that Neo can stop machines with his mind ... "It means something that I can't talk about." This causes an uncomfortable silence. "You all agree that I am more, that I am 'the one.' I need to enter the Matrix again and finish this fight." "Should we go with you?" Morpheus asks. "It doesn't matter," replies Neo. Trinity looks puzzled. She rubs Neo's cheek. He takes her hand and puts it down. "Trinity, I do love you. But I must go deeper into the Matrix. Beyond what we've seen. I don't think it's possible for you to come with me. Help them save Zion."
With that we go into the room where they hook up to the Matrix and Neo sits in the chair and he wills the interface rod to plug into his head as the others watch in amazement. "Good luck," Neo tells the others before his eyes close and we watch as his mind plunges into the green code of the Matrix.
... more ... -
First, let me say it's quite ironic that those who have not liked the Matrix sequels are upset at being told "they didn't get it" yet waste no time refering those of us who did enjoy Reloaded (and might enjoy Revolutions) as fanboy suckers dupped by the W brothers...pretentiousness cuts both ways.
I certainly respect the opinions of those who do not like the Matrix sequels (although I certainly don't understand them)...just let me say this about the bemoaning of lack of character development I have read in these reviews and reviews of Reloaded...If you think the first Matrix (which you all loved so much) had an ounch of character development in it you are clearly deranged. I do not like the Matrix movies because of character development, and can therefore see myslef enjoying Revolutions quite a bit if it does not have any. -
.... Neo lands on a city sidewalk, having landed hard from a fall from the sky ... the shock wave expands outward as he gets his bearings. Neo senses something ... we go CLOSE on his face, to his ear. We hear what he hears, the voice of the Oracle ... "Neo" she calls. He cocks his head to the source of the sound - some miles distant and takes off in the sky to fly there. He zeroes in on the location as he flies, we see a rooftop entrance on an old building in a shabby part of town. He aims his flight path there ...
CUT TO the bad guy on the vessel.
He waits until the medical tech leaves the room, then opens his eyes and sits up - pulling off the medical sensors and such. He goes to the computer panel and touches it ... green sparks let us know he is interfacing. He laughs, and carefully makes his way out of the room, swiping a scalpel on his way, and down the hall unseen ... to where Neo sits in the chair, with Trinity and the Matrix monitor watching on the terminal - there backs to Neo and the bad guy being controlled by Smith. Human/Smith stands over Neo and begins to laugh, causing Trinity and the tech guy to snap around. "I know that laugh," Trinity says. "As well you should, Trinity. But it looks like I shall have the last laugh." Just then Morpheus and others enter, seeing the scalpel in Human/Smith's hand. "Ah, Morpheus. The gang's all here. Say goodbye to Neo." Human/Smith plunges the scalpel into Neo before Trinity or Morpheus or anyone can move to stop it ... Neo's body doesn't fight at all ... but green liquid (not black) seems to creep out of Neo's body and begins to absorb Human/Smith. "This isn't possible!" Human/Smith exclaims. Trinity and Morpheus and the rest are speechless, until finally someone says, "That isn't possible!" Human/Smith is now fully absorbed into Neo, who's body doesn't move at all, seemingly asleep in his Matrix interface. Trinity turns to Morpheus ... "What does it mean?"
... more ? ...
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... Neo is flying, toward the rooftop ... his body convulses, and he reaches inside himself and pulls out a Smith, who seems completely startled. Neo lands on the roof dropping Smith who gets up to face him. "You seem confused Smith." "How did you do that?" "You haven't figured it out yet, have you?" Neo grabs Smith by the neck with his left hand, and gets hold of both of Smith's wrists with his right hand to get control of him - Smith seems unable to fight back.
"I know this is only one of your clones, Smith. But send him this message for me ..." Neo is now spinning Smith around his head like a tetherball, ready to release him once the momentum is great enough ... "Decide upon which side you will fight." And Neo lets go - Smith flying as a blur of light into the sky and many miles away. Neo turns and makes his way into the roof entrance ... we DISSOLVE to Neo approaching the door to the Oracle's place ... he opens it with his will and walks with contempt past the children there.
"Neo?" comes the voice from the kitchen ... "Why are you angry?" Neo turns the corner and is now face-to-face with the Oracle ... "Because you are part of the lie." Neo raises his hands as if to affect the Matrix and somehow attack the Oracle. She turns and opens a drawer, grabbin a wire wisk and easily deflects his attempt, which clearly takes him by surprise. She seems to paralyze him, and puts the wisk down and walks around him. She shoos away the children who've come to watch ... "So, you think you've got it all figured out now, do you? Neo's all grown up and ready to strike out on his own. Neo believes I, the Oracle, and part of the problem and not the solution." "You are one of the overlying programs that bring order to the Matrix. It cannot exist without you. So, yes, you are part of the problem." The Oracle narrows her eyes and orders Neo, "sit." His body cannot resist and he complies. "Cookie?" she asks. Neo nods no. "I guess you're well past cookies." The Oracle sits too. "Neo, what you say it true ... to a point. There are so many iterations within a computer program, so many things exactly the same so many times ... that it becomes hard to recognize when something is truly different, and when new consciousness is truly born." "Consciousness within programs?" "Yes, Neo. You know the truth now. This is but one layer of reality. A manufactured reality, and you've found out that you can now push past the next layer. You will see me there too. And there it will be clear to you who is on the side of freedom and who fights for revolution and who does not."
... More ?? ... -
Okay, so I saw this thing on Wednesday, and I couldn't agree more. I won't spoil, but I'll say: all flash, no story. Hideous. The antithesis of "The Matrix," which boasted a killer story to which the great effects were just icing on the cake. Here is the reversal -- all effects, and a shitty story that builds on the sub-Next Gen world of "Reloaded." I don't know what happened to the Wachowskis, but maybe Andy's transformation into a woman f-ed with his head. Just the sheer number of S&M-dressed dudes in the film is a hint of that. I COULDN'T BE MORE PISSED. I LOVED "THE MATRIX," and they fucked their own creation so badly I CAN'T EVEN WATCH IT ANYMORE.
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Nov 01, 2003 11:02:21 PM CST
EXCUSE ME BUT I THOUGHT ALL STYLE AND FLASH NO SUBSTANCE WAS THE
by watashiwadare
How quickly it all turns. Not that anyone really pays attention to internet hype reviews anyway. or at least they shouldn't.
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please shut the fuck up. Nobody is interested in how you think Revolutions should have played out. And allow me to bring some optimism onto this talkback by saying that Revolutions will be kicking my ass on November 5 and I hope it will be kicking yours.
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... The Oracle lights up a cigarette and begins to smoke, she and Neo stare intently at one another. "Well, what's it going to be Neo?" We see that she has released Neo, his body relaxes from the hold she had over him. "I want the truth. Not just one layer of truth, but the whole truth." The Oracle smiles, "Now, that's being naive. Who has ever had the whole truth? Who can see it all, feel it all, from every point all at once?" Neo ponders this for a moment ... "I think that is what Smith is trying to do."
The Oracle stubs out her cigarette, "Smith is the wild card this time around. When he reached into you and tried to clone you in an earlier contact you two had, he touched something he'd never done before in all past iterations of this world. He touched goodness, Neo. And that, is what finally gives us a chance at freedom." The Light changes as the outside weather suddenly grows dark. "You must go now. My old nemisis the Architect is looking for me. I've never used this building before, but he'll find it soon enough." Neo stands, "But, where do I go?" "To go deeper to the truth one must go deeper within oneself. I have to go. I wouldnt' take too long if I were you." The Oracle gathers her handbag and a coat and walks past Neo. Neo looks up, wondering - then focuses his attention and closes his eyes in a deep meditative trance. His body begins to give off an orange light, concentrated at his belly and moving up until he seems to collapse in upon himself like a black hole. "That's it," says the Oracle, as she runs to leave. We CUT TO Neo sitting in the interface chair on the vessel, where Trinity, Morpheus and the others watch as Neo's body there seems to collapse in upon itself like a black hole - to their astonishment of the others. Trinity reaches out to Neo, and her arm is sucked into the vortex. Morpheus grabs Trinity's arm and they both are sucked into the vortex just as it collapses completely - the three of them now - gone. We CUT TO Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus appearing into a long tunnel of code, mostly green but turning to orange as they get sucked through it. They begin to see things in the code, with Zion and the ongoing attack resolving itself from the code as they travel ... Neo raises his hands as if to rework the code, and part of the code glows brighter and rearranges itself ... We CUT TO Zion where the people of the city watch as their overhead dome begins to crumble and the deafening noise of the machines approaching suddenly halts ... it becomes still and the shaking stops ... CUT TO Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus descending now down an ever tightening tunnel of code, now mostly orange in color ... they stretch out into elongated shapes ... CUT TO Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus falling a few feet onto a busy New York-type sidewalk. They pick themselves up ... this does not seem at all like the Matrix they know. Light is harsher and brighter, sounds are raspier and tinnier, colors are more vivid, the place is rich with texture - gritty, seeming more real than real. They are in front of an electronics store. On the monitors in the window suddenly appears Smith. "Welcome Neo. Morpheus. And the lovely Trinity." In the monitors we see as Smith pulls Persephone to him, they are cheek-to-cheek, "Look who I have with me. The Merovingian is no more, and look at who now belongs to me. The beautiful Persephone." Neo turns to face Smith on the monitors. "You can't make it to where we are, can you?"
... more ??? ... -
... And Neo finds Persephone being ass-raped by the original Agent Smith in the dark alley behind the Gay club. So he used "the Force" to grab a fire extinguisher off the wall and bashed Smith's skull in. Due to perfect timing, Smith was having an orgasm and forgot to defend himself. Smith dies, and all his clones disappear: it turns out they were just short-cuts to the orignal Smith, not really programs themselves! Neo saves everyone, and has a hot three-some with Trinity and Persephone. Morpheus can only watch. Poor bastard. The end.
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Thats what Ebert and Roeper gave Revolutions, although they sounded quite condescending about it. It was the weakest of the three, parodied itself, didnt answer enough questions, but nice CGI (most critics said the same damn thing about the CGI in Reloaded).
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...is to distract them from their own pathetic lives. I work with people like this every day. They know everything and are never wrong; for example they're the guys who will rattle on about the specs of an AC-130 gunship but the closest they've ever gotten to the Air Force is "Sega Lock-On" at the rundown arcade at the mall. They are Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons, but not as cool. They'll let you know that The Matrix is just a rip off of anime but can rarely cite examples and when they do, who cares? It's anime!
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you just aren't willing to accept the fact tht ppl are looking upto RotK after being dissapointed by these movies..
So prodded by ur nerdy egomaniacal self u go accusing the LOTR movies of lacking a 'plot'
There is no plot without the charachters making it believable, and there is a veru fundamental reason why the LOTR movies have indeed a deeper plot thn the matrix fuck-ups( yes u heard right deeper plot !)
just blame ur nerdy emotionally drained self who fails to idolises coke guzzling, trenchcoat wearing, supersonic flying, jesus christ reincarnates who are so emotionally famished like urself tht they look indistinguishable from the very machines they are fighting.
And the LOTR plot, here goes, a story told from the heart without any intention at making money (talking about the books) unlike the W bro's stint at duping audiences for sake of profit.
A story which emphasises tht the most insignificant ppl can achieve the most extraordinary things simply by sticking to human virtues; friendship, love and faith 'without the need of superpowers and other geek fantasies..
The LOTR movies are more 'real' and more 'human' than the matrix fuck-ups anytime, not to mention with heart twitching dialogues and no Morpheus like pussy preaching.
And if u still chose to stick by ur fantasies( and i suspect you will), let the box office results speak..
and then u can go around calling those millions of LOTR enthusiasts un-contemporary or un-geeky for the rest of ur life
:DDD -
Radii314 - Get a life, please!
Howabout this for an improvement to the Matrix trilogy.
Instead of plugging in via sockets at the back of their heads they all plug into the Matrix via arse sockets...
Onboard the Knobocanezer
Morphearse - Neo, bend over and drop your shorts, I'm about to enter your Matrix. You might want to take a tight grip on that table!
Neo - WHOOOARRHH!!! DOOOOOOD!!!
PS Technology and the people behind it and driving innovation in movies and not the Washout Bros. This movie wouldn't exist without Intel! In five years the Matrix will seem outdated, give it ten years and you'll be able to do the same VFX on your laptop!!
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Attention all movie goers, film enthusiasts, movie-cult followers, website junkies, and fanboys: For those that don
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No offence met to matrix fans, i lovd the first movie myself: it was a masterpiece_ this one intended for the twits who refuse to swallow wht critics n ppl(generally) have to say regarding the reloaded cropper , and the mega sfx-ridden revolution' in croppers:
change 1.)
Movie genre changed from drama to comedy.
change 2.)
Gandalf-Galadriel-Elrond love triangle
change 3.)
Frodo Galadriel pep-talk:
Frodo (a pale,lifeless, expressionless being)- u have the power of foresight what are u going to tell me regarding my chances?
Gal - that you already know what i am gonna tell you..
Frodo - that im gonna cross over undetected into mordor hurl the ring into orodruin, and save Middle Earth !!
Gal - No,
Frodo - no, then what?
Gal - i Love candy.
change 4.)
Frodo, sam, gollum and the Ring:
Sam: this dipsomaniac is gonna cheat and murder us
Frodo: and what do u suggest?
Sam: use the ring! it will broaden the scope for SFX and give u superpowers!! y the fk destroy it when you can be The One!?
Frodo(dreamy eyed): yeah and then i can challange the dark lord himself and save the world all by myself, what a climax it will be !!.. and also with the scope of endless more sequels where I will play the new dark lord and the fuckin' Wa###ski's can make a lot more money :P
Gollum(eavesdropping): Nassty filthyy hobbitss cheatses on uss.. yess yess but they forget She, oh yess Preciouss they forgetss She.
Change 5.)
Minas Tirith:
Night before battle
Gandalf in a drawling voice(addressing a thousand people dressed in filthy rags):
Tonight is THE night, we WILL show THEM, that we are NOT weak.. do i believe something that you do not? NO!
do i believe something that they do no? NO!
Tommorow the war will be over, isn that worth fighting for? isnt that worth dying for?
**inspired ppl break out in a wild tribal dance given fifteen minutes of reel time**
Fuckup 6.)
Aragorn - Eowyn nookie
( while everyone else is dancing)
Eowyn: come with me .. we need to give this movie an R-rating
**Aragorn and Eowyn make out,
Eowyn: No, No_ thats NOT a kiss, kiss me like u kiss HERRR !
Arwen on telepathic update frm Rivendell: Excuse me??
**Aragorn and Eowyn make out for five minutes of reel-time in which the only fking thing u get to see is Aragorn's rippling muscless (after all he is the K in ROTK. say the W.bros)**
Fuckup 7.)
Frodo v/s Shelob's hundred and one clones:
Frodo: You!
She: yes me me me..
She2: me too
She: see thts the diff b/w u and me, i was expectingg uuu..
She2: me too
Frodo: it is not whether u were expecting me or not, bcoz i have already made the choice im here only to understand why i have made it..
She: because this is the climax you punk.
Frodo: the climax?? but i thought Sauron's destruction was what ppl wanted to see.
She: who cares what ppl wants to see! you have a hundred and one of me.
She2: me too.
Frodo: shut up no2. i can fight with only one of you so lets go out into the rain where the fight sequences and SFX will look more exciting,,
*** Frodo charges She and beats the crap out of her using the OneRing, she2,she3,she4 look on silently..***
She: hey u punks 2,3,4 why dont you help ?
She3:
because it was meant to be.
She4: You are being fukd bcoz it was meant to be And i am watching bcoz it was meant to be.
She2: me too.
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and i
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Stop comparing movies to other movies. Your determination to win the battle for "your" films makes you incapable of looking at things clearly (J D, thecutestofborg).
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Nov 02, 2003 10:05:21 AM CST
And another thing...what's up with the franchise war between LOT
by lost skeleton
I love both trilogies. My 12/17/03 advertising starts on Thursday. I don't think I have read a single Matrix fan who hates LOTR. It's the Star Wars prequels (not the brillant OT) that suck
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I sorry folks but it does, he gets to the fucking volcanoe, and some fucker bites his finger off and jumps in! WTF thats fucking it!!
How about the fail, he re-merges and they fight to the death before he can gain full power!!
No, he gits finger bitten off, and the numbnuts who does it jumps in, FFS -
I have restrained myself from talking about LOTR in talkbacks that are about other movies, but the stupidity of your statement has compelled me to respond. You are surely entitled to your opinion, but point of the ending is that the ring is so pure evil that noone can resist its power. That's why Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond, Aragorn and everyone else don't want to be the bearer of the ring, it's too powerful and especially in the very place it was forged. In some ways the story couldn't end any other way, if Frodo went and simply tossed it in the lava it would be rather anti-climactic. Instead he wrestles (literally) with his shadow-self (Gollum. I do hope this isn't too complicated for you.) and loses, he is overwhelmed by the evil. In some ways the ending is rather brave, to set up a huge quest and ultimately have your hero fail is a daring move, one one for which Tolkien was criticized. He really didn't follow the demands of the genre. Instead Frodo is a shattered man (hobbit) at the end of the story and he never really recovers. And, incidentally, that's not the end, because you still have the Scouring of the Shire and The Grey Havens. The Scouring of the Shire is is many ways the true climax of the book because it shows the Hobbits dealing with major problems on their own- without any help from Gandalf or Aragorn. Pity Jackson cut it out. It is absolutely essential for it to end this way because of the extent to which Tolkien set up the power of the ring. The ending of the Matrix, at least as it is described in this review, seems a bit too much like the end of "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" for my taste.
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Nov 02, 2003 2:39:23 PM CST
Anyone who says that there is no character development in the fi
by fluffyunbound
The engine that drives the entire plot in the first film is Neo's INTERNAL conflict between doubt in his destiny as the "One" [kind of a foolish notion to ask a skeptical individual raised in a simulacrum of 90's society to believe] and the faith of his friend and mentor. It's a conflict in fine balance, which cycles back and forth at least once [Morpheus' belief is almost strong enough to convince Neo, particularly when he experiences the rush of discovery of what he can do in the Matrix once his starts to push its boundaries; this conviction wavers when the Oracle tells Neo that he ISN'T the One] before it is finally resolved when Trinity "revives" Neo during the final scenes. It is precisely the fact that the film perfectly re-imagines this archtypical tale of self-discovery and enlightenment in a postmodern, part-cyberpunk / part-goth milieu that made the film work so well. The action scenes were innovative, sure, but if you just had the action scenes without this character dynamic, you end up with...well, you end up with Reloaded. Reloaded had trivial pursuit Easter Eggs about philosophy, but they were almost purely ornamental, where the original Matrix's philosophical tidbits were in the service of a linear narrative. The difference showed.
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I saw Revolutions in NYC on Thursday as well. I enjoyed it immensely, but it did have flaws. For more than an hour of the movie the main stars of the film were not involved with the battle. Morpheus and his crew were making their way to Zion through the maintenance route, and Neo and Trinity were going to the machine city, leaving people if you've never seen before fight the good fight. But what a good fight it was. The guy on the stretcher from Reloaded, who is basically Agent Smith was great. He scared the crap out of me, literally. He burned Neo's eyes out, and I thought the rest of the movie was going to suck, but it didn't. Agent Smith speaks with the Oracle before he replicates himself. That scene had some great lines he has throughout the film. And the architect makes an appearance at the end and questions how long "peace will last?" Seems like there's going to be more Matrix films with the way they ended or, or just a methaphor for the middle east conflict. Who knows. You will enjoy this movie, guys. Don't worry. Sorry if I rambled and didn't write this better. I'm in a rush. Take care.
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Nov 02, 2003 7:10:32 PM CST
Wow there are WAY too many people on this site who post looong-a
by gil-galad12
And why is everyone so hostile on this site? People share their opinions and others get militant about it. Yeah, I didn't like matrix 2, so what? If you didn't like LOTR, so what? no one says you have to. There are maybe a handful of people who post serious arguments to other people's comments. As for the rest of you...take it easy, they're just movies. Get away from the computer...Go outside into the bright real world, develop people skills...
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Nov 02, 2003 7:18:29 PM CST
Has anyone noticed this GLARINGLY OBVIOUS OBSERVATION - maybe no
by sk909
That people from Europe... namely England, but those from France, Germany, Spain, Portugal,etc. as well... are unbelievably forgiving when it comes to movies. They NEVER think anything sucks. And to me, that's just as bad as thinking that EVERYTHING sucks. They complain and go on and on and on about how stupid Americans are and how picky they are and how uneducated and all this shit, yet they are the first to come to the defense of Lucas and The Phantom Menace, Matrix films, etc. with their inane dialogue, badly stitched together 'plot', and horribly unimportant FX. You can bet that when some guy is posting 'HEY JERKS, IT'S LUCAS'S MOVIE AND HE CAN DO WHAT HE WANTS WITH IT' - he will, 9 times out of 10, end his post with something along the lines of '... RIGHT bunch of american ARSE-holes... ' or some other dead giveaway that he/she is from the U.K. I am dead serious and I hope that people read this post and tell me whether they agree/disagree with it. If you disagree, that's fine, I'm simply making an observation of something that I've seen enough that it warrants making note of and seeing if others feel the same. And with Lucas in particular, everyone seems to REALLY come to his defense in Europe. Hope others chime in on this.
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That guy who said "LOTR has a shit ending" made no intelligent argument about why he thought so. He did it just to be a moron. Then "Death Sarcasm" responds with a detailed, and pretty polite reason why he thinks he's wrong. Whenever I go into theonering.net chat, people are very mild-mannered, calm, and nonabrasive. I come here and people are yelling at each other in caps, bashing LOTR solely because people are criticizing the Matrix, and acting like idiots. Are all Matrix diehards, (Star Wars people too) like this? I don't like making generalizations, but sometimes it seems like that.
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Sorry FluffyUnbound...I still don't see the character development in Matrix 1. In my view, characters are fairly shallow if they can be summed in in less than five words. Neo was: the unsure hero. Morpheus was: the quasi-fanatic man of faith. Trinity was: the useless female love interest.
If you want to see character development in Reloaded...it's there if you want it to be (just like in Matrix 1). If the engine that drives the first film is "Neo's INTERNAL conflict between doubt in his destiny as the 'One'" then perhaps the (largely unoticed) engine that drives the second is Neo's INTERNAL conflict over knowing he is the One and yet not really knowing what that means or what he's supposed to do with it. Morpheus' character develops a great deal at the end when he learns that all he believed might have been a lie. Trinity is still the useless female love interest. I know I'm strechting things a bit here, but I think you were to in your assessments of the first film...it's tehre if you want it to be.
Personaly, I like The Matrix because it had a bit of philosophizing with a bunch of cool action. I liked Reloaded cause it raised the bar on both matters (more philosophizing, more action). -
The problem in Europe is that they aren't nearly as demanding of high quality movies as Americans are. Anytime a European movie accidental reaches a better than average level of quality by their standards, it's declared a major accomplishment. I cite movies like "Life is Beautiful" as an example of people overreacting to a movie that was average at best. French movies have gotten so bad that their government had to demand that their theaters carry a minimum number of French made movies. They'd stopped carrying French movies because they were so bad that not even French people wanted to watch them! Europe eats up bad movies like Godzilla, which made more money overseas than here. That kind of crap wouldn't be made if it didn't have such a huge support system overseas!
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Please, don't talk about bias. The fact that you even compare this site to TheOneRing.net speaks volumes about your partiality.
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wait every 1s bitchin bout how crap this movie is then why the fuck is every1 dying to see it?>
Do you guys realize movies are made to entertain and the matrix is not only about philosophy religion and awl that stuff but also a frikin good showcase of just what can be achieved on film using computer graphics. The fact is peopl would go 2 watch it even if it hadn't had the slightest plot as the fx make it worthwhile
Has anyone seen the behind the seens doc.? shit i dont care i just want to treat myself to a sensory overload thats wot its about... some might say reloaded was crap im not saying the story was the best BUT IT WAS A VISUAL TREAT! no doubt about it. I've never seen a film that was so rich everything looked classy the graphics where amazing it was to see such a polished movie.
i dont know many may disagree but its definately a movie trilogy that will be talked about for a long time it's already in the record books even if revolutions is a total flop... but i doubt it will be. The Smith vs Neo fight should alone make it worthwhile
lets not forget that $40mil scene?
:o well i guess i'll have 2 wait to find out like the rest of u haters and lovers. -
I think people making a case for the Matrix's suckitude or its inferiority to Lord of the Rings are implying that some (I'd place an emphasis on the word "some") of the "cool ideas" that the movie wants you to think about are not integrated into the movie as naturally as they are in LotR, which is fair enough, but not really reason enough to bring that whole scene into these talkbacks. The ones that think it suck can probably give you a lot of reasons as to why they didn't like the film (I've certainly read a litany of them), but 1)I'm too tired to list them all and 2)I don't know what level of importance you'd place on these problems, so you'll have to take that issue up with others. The dialogue, especially the stoner ramblings on "Philosophy 101," as smarmy fanboys like to call it, were pretty annoying.
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complain all you want and spoil all you want but when you are in the theatre and the lights go down you will piss yourself in glee. just like ep II, all the bad dialogue and lack of character development will mean nothing when its over and you sit at home and wonder what it all means. you know it.
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Hey Fevruil did you ****ing peek at the ending of LOTR in Borders just to console your sorry *** about the **** that Revolutions is gonna be? The LOTR ending is one of the best ending of all time. Look on the pub. date you idiot. It's in ******** 1953! Before Caulden Holly said f*** in "Catcher in the RYE". There is so much meaning in the ending which includes morality, God, redemption, addiction, etc. all tied into a personal journey of biblical proportions. Even Tolkien said Gandalf was an angel. The paganistic, Budweiser dreadlock dripping rave coked up party that is the Matrix sequels is about to end. The WB's are going to get busted as big time frauds. Worse fate than Devlin and Emmerich who brought you the crap ID4 and Godzilla. Hey you GRIMlocke, see we agree again, Alien 3 was great in its own right, the music was outstanding especially when the frozen alien was shattered in the furnace. Someone must have abducted you in a ufo and injected amnesia to make you think TTT was a ****fest. TTT I agree was not without a few problems but it's still grand and still light years ahead of Clones and Reloaded.
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You said "Whenever I go into theonering.net chat, people are very mild-mannered, calm, and nonabrasive. I come here and people are yelling at each other in caps, bashing LOTR solely because people are criticizing the Matrix, and acting like idiots. Are all Matrix diehards, (Star Wars people too) like this? I don't like making generalizations, but sometimes it seems like that." Well, no offense, but as someone already noted, given that you're citing the Onering.net as your example, I think your viewpoint is already a bit biased possibly -- that is, you're a LOTR fan who is going to say LOTR gets unfairly put upon. But even if you're not biased, let's not point the finger of guilt in only one direction. There's certainly more than enough to go around to various factions. I've certainly seen LOTR fans be equally abusive towards other franchises as well. There's certainly been LOTR dieharders taking the snobbish, raised nose attitude of "Well, OUR franchise is based on world renowned literature!" Or they'll say "Sure, your movie was a box office hit, but OUR franchise is going to make money AND win the Best Picture Oscar TOO!" (which, let history note, it hasn't. So much for bragging rights.) Personally, I love genre filmmaking and I just like to go to the movies. And for the record, I am a lifelong STAR WARS fan (yes, even old enough to say I was there opening day way back in '77). But my fan love for SW doesn't mean I don't get excited for the MATRIX movies or LOTR now as well. In the end, like any movie fan, I could go through the various franchises and "tier" all the films against one another. That is, make one long list that simply says (to my tastes) "this movie was better than this one, but this one was better than that, but this one over here was better still." I just think it's silly for anyone to trounce on a movie that other people like simply to try and boost their own egos about "their" film franchise which in itself is silly -- I mean, come on, did THEY actually make it? So what are they getting so self-defensive about anyway? I say if someone likes LOTR, great...enjoy. But don't bag on people who like the MATRIX as if you believe -- like some religous film crusade -- you're going to "convert them" over to loving your franchise instead. Don't take the ridiculous, baby attitude that someone doesn't have the right to enjoy the MATRIX movies and call them their favorites. And that goes for Star Wars fans, Harry Potter fans,LOTR fans, Bond fans...whatever. The bottom line is that we all like DIFFERENT things for DIFFERENT reasons, so naturally we're going to come to DIFFERENT conclusions about the movies based on our own individual tastes. So when you say that the talkback discussions seem more civil at onering.net, my response is to say "Of course they are. Because you're preaching to the converted. You're talking about a group of people who are ALL in one place to share a love over ONE common thing." Go to the Force.net and their boards and you'll see the same thing -- the Star Wars fans there have nice, civil discussions because they're all unified by their love for STAR WARS. The problem at AICN is that some people -- accent on "some" -- like to go into opposing talkback threads just to drop a bomb. So you get one franchise fan bagging on another, almost hoping to start a firefight. To my mind, the "Lucas raped my childhood" brigade for the longest time took malevolent root and these days it's actually the SW fans who have to endure the most badgering. And don't any of you asswipes go saying Lucas brought it on himself because the prequels DO fucking rule. Problem is, the kid in some of you died long ago...which is why we DO have such petty fighting here, as opposed to just talking about the movies -- all movies -- in a more civil tone.
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Whats with all the disagreeing and people arguing with people who don't like the films, use your own opinions you either like it or you don't.
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I've seen a lot of people on this site justify their Star Wars credentials by saying they saw the movie on opening day 1977- bullshit. The movie was virtually unnoticed when it opened. It only got big weeks later. If all of the people who claim they saw it on opening day actually did, then everyone who saw Star Wars in May of 1977 frequent this site on a regular basis.
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I've noticed that a lot of people on this site establish their Star Wars credentials by claiming to have gone to see the movie on opening day 1977. Bullshit, the movie was virtually unnoticed when it came out, and didn't become big until weeks later. If everyone on AICN who claims to have seen the movie on opening day actually hasm, the everyone who saw it that day frequents this site. No need to lie people.
In the interests of full disclosure, I did see Star Wars in 1977, but not, like most of the population, until well after opening day. I was four, it was the first movie I ever saw in the theaters. By the time Empire came out I had a healthy collection of toys. And I did see Jedi on opening day. -
I guess I have to see what you're saying. I look at this guy krylite's posting bashing matrix and clones, and okay, there are stupid fans for all movies. You know, the people who nitpick over every little insignificant detail Star Wars fans talk about Lucas like he is Satan incarnate, yet still line up in droves to see his latest flick (I know I do). Rings fans point out the tiniest little inconsistencies in the film, not realizing its merely an adaption, a director's interpretation. I guess, yes, I am a little biased, though not because I love LOTR. I also love the original Star Wars, even Ep. I l loved, and the original Matrix.still do. But, I've only been in LOTR chats and forums, so I guess I'll have to take your word that they're civil. Maybe you can expand this idea to the internet in general. Maybe there's something about the anonymous nature of postings, that people can just write whatever they think, because they're not trying to impress anyone. I just hate it when people bash other's people's favorite movies just because they bashed theirs (though I disapprove of people bashing movies just to irk others anyway). I guess I would just like to see this forum populated by people who offered their own opinions (excluding four-letter words) on why they didn't like a movie or why they did. No personal attacks. No so-called "franchise wars" (please,each franchise has offered something different to culture as a whole, therefore cannot be compared accurately). Just intelligent conversation. Though I have to say, many on these boards do speak with restraint and eloquence. kudos to you (including yourself, ape guy).
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Are you serious? Did I just hallucinate the scene in which humanity is grown and maintained in vats? That's not really a wrong thing to do? That's okay? You could argue that that's, basically, a morally sound move? Someone takes your kid and does that, you'd say, "hey, I guess that's alright, as long as the computer feeds his head nice images most of the time." Look, Tolkein didn't exactly make his conflicting sides shades of grey, but let's not paint the Matrix a deep philosophical struggle.
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Er...this review was cut and pasted from Film Threat. Seriously. Watch what your printing Harry.
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Quite frankly, I think that Reloaded was the best of the three. It asked the most interesting questions, and left them all unresolved. Which always makes for a more interesting film. Sure, The Matrix was more ground-breaking in its visual effects, but how important is that, really? In terms of story-telling, it's wholly UNimportant how gee-whiz-bang-neato the effects are, and if you disagree with me, you and I probably shouldn't be discussing these films (or any films for that matter.)
I think it's a profound mistake to view the Matrix series as an action movie with a bunch of philosophical dialogue thrown in for a wank. I think if you do that, you miss what's truly interesting about the series, and you fail to see why it has captured the attention of academics and intellectuals in a way, and in such a short period of time, that no other films have. Instead, see it as a philosophical trilogy with some action scenes thrown in to a) illustrate some crucial points; and b) attract an audience and make money.
But what question did the first Matrix pose? "Are we really living this life, or are we just "brains in a vat"? Is this world really real? Are we free? How can we be sure?" To be honest, these are a pretty straightforward and cliched philosophical questions that anyone who's taken Philosophy 101 (or Epistemology 101) will have encountered dozens of times. Descartes raised some of them nearly 400 years ago, and they've been the subject of intense debate since then.
Reloaded, on the other hand, expanded those questions into much more complicated and subtle questions. Reloaded asked things like: What does freedom mean? If you're not willing to accept the consequences of a course of action, then are you truly free to choose that course? What is the nature of consciousness - can it be represented by lines of computer code? Can the mind be wholly split from the body? What exactly goes on when someone is jacked into the matrix? What exactly is the relationship between free will, choice, purpose, and meaning? What does the Oracle mean when she says that we cannot see past the decisions we do not understand? How is it that programs are able to exercise choice yet not possess free will? Why is it that the only two truly free people within the matrix (Neo and Smith) are also the only two with no purpose?
This list goes on and on, and a lot of the questions are buried under the surface, but they're all there. There are more questions in M2 than in M1, which makes it, in my eyes, a more interesting film.
I don't mean to say that people who didn't like it simply didn't get it, but ... I've read a bunch of criticisms of the philosophical ideas behind Reloaded ("they didn't answer this, this doesn't make sense, etc. etc.") and not one of those criticisms holds water. Not one. (The technological criticisms, on the other hand - like why the hell the machines bother to use humans to generate electricity when there would undoubtedly be better sources for it - well, that's probably true, but I think that's just something that you have to accept as one of the ground rules of the film, like the clear mind-body dualism that the Wachowskis espouse.) The philosophy behind the film is solid, and if you can't see an answer to your questions, then you're just not looking hard enough. And if you think it's all trite and superficial, then you're just not looking deep enough. The questions are there, and they're not trite - but they're also not spelled out for you, or offered to you on a silver plate. If you want the really interesting philosophical questions, you've got to dig.
The discussions in Reloaded between Neo and Councillor Hamann, the Architect, or the Oracle, ARE the fundamental aspects of the films. If you were to get rid of them, as I've seen suggested, you'd be taking the heart out of the film and turning it into something very different. Perhaps some people might think it would make the story stronger. I don't. I think you'd be turning The Matrix Trilogy from a philosophical investigation of: consciousness, reality & virtuality, power, control, freedom, causality, purpose and above all, meaning; and you'd end up with just another action thriller like we get every other weekend.
The more I reflect upon The Matrix trilogy, the more I'm impressed with what the Wachowski brothers have created. It's not just a story about Love Conquers All, or Good Always Triumphs - it's a story about human nature and the continual choice to continue fighting. As Smith asks Neo at the end of M3, [paraphrasing] "Why do you persist in fighting when you know that life is meaningless?" And Neo replies "Because I choose to." It's a profound existential statement about valuing life even though, and perhaps precisely BECAUSE, it lacks meaning.
Neo chooses to fight, to accept existence in all its pain and glory, chooses to persist, knowing full well that he will die and that none of it will have Meant Anything, because to do otherwise is to renounce one's humanity.
And if you think that's trite, then ... well ... I guess you just didn't get it. -
I didn't realize that all of my formatting (paragraph marks, etc.) would be deleted. Sorry that last post is so hard to read. I do tend to ramble when I get excited.
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