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Carl - Well, here is another thing, going into the whole Special Edition, because he’s still working on them…
Moriarty- (full of sarcasm) Oh, no, he’s not… no… he’s not… no. You lie!
Carl - I think we’ll see the movies on DVD before we get those versions to be honest with you…
Moriarty - What we are hearing now is we’ll get the SPECIAL EDITIONS next fall, fourth quarter next year. That’s what I’m hearing anyway….
Everyone getting excited again, talking at once… all with their rumors of when they have heard that the DVD’s are coming out.
Darth Tardy - That would bring it right up to Episode III.
Carl - It’s going to be similar to the Indy DVDs, three movies and a fourth disc of extras. And people will complain, but trust me, there is more stuff coming out later.
Moriarty - Oh yeah, this will be the stopgap. Here are your Special Editions…
Darth Tardy - “For the last time… AGAIN.”
FrostySkywalker - I’m not trying to say this in a negative way, but he is a mastermind of getting money out of the fans.
Everyone at once.
Obi-Swan - Well, he’s got mine.
Moriarty - Dude, he’s no different than Disney. It’s the perfect example of how you manage your marketing.
Carl - You have to be careful with that, though, because the truth is if he really wanted to milk fans out of money the way that everyone says he does, we would have five different versions of the DVDs already.
FrostySkywalker - That’s true. We’re going to get them next year, next Christmas, next fall or whatever, and then he can put out the Ultimate Box Set a year or two after Episode III.
Moriarty - He’ll wait for ’07, the thirtieth anniversary, I’m sure.
Carl - He’s going to tweak the films again.
Mxyzlptlk - What about the Vader-Obi-Wan duel from ANH?
Carl - Well, we talked about that yesterday [at the Lucasfilm DVD event for INDY], about the rumor of the CGI fixes and that. That’s one of the things where I’m like, go ahead and do CGI fixes to that scene. It’s going to look terrible, anyway. These two geriatrics pawing at each other. And the lightsabers look horrible, too… fix that damn effect!
Everyone agreeing that its okay to fix the lightsabers… all at once realizing that it’s a good idea.
Obi-Swan - I was thinking this when I was watching the Special Editions the other day, they should have never done the Special Editions for ESB and ROTJ. They should have put all their time and money into the SE of the first film.
JedtheHutt - That was the original plan actually.
Carl- What is his name at ILM? The head of the CG creature crew? Rob Coleman. I hear that he is privately pushing George to fix the Episode I Yoda, which I am 100% in agreement with. Because if you see the Episode II Yoda and then go back and then look at that one from Episode I… it’s like Mongoloid Yoda… terrible.
Moriarty – Or, as we like to call him, “Crack Yoda”.
Mxyzlptlk - Episode II Yoda is great.
FrostySkywalker - I recently went back and watched Episodes I & II, and EPISODE I looks like animation that I could do on my computer at home now compared with II.
Carl - A lot of it is because it was shot on 35mm film, though…
FrostySkywalker - Whatever the reason is, what I am saying is…
Moriarty - It’s a real uncomfortable marriage of optical and digital…
FrostySkywalker - Would it be that bad if he went back and remade Episode I?
Darth Tardy - I would like a Special Edition of Episode I…
Carl - Would it be that bad if Episode I never happened and Episode II was Episode I?
Darth Tardy - That is what my roommate says, that a lot of fans are never going to include Episode I. It’s just going to be II-VI.
Moriarty - If he really wanted to be experimental, like the way he was with his early sequels, it would have been a lot of fun if he had just made Episode III. Like right off the bat, just said, “Yeah, Episode I & II, they happened, and I know what they are, but you really don’t need to see them, so here’s III.” After all, the duel is the only thing everyone has been waiting for anyway.
Carl - The story of Episode III is what we’ve always thought the entire prequel trilogy was to be about. It’s all happening in this last movie.
Darth Tardy – It’s what it’s all about.
Mxyzlptlk - And that story is going to be good, I cannot wait…
Darth Tardy - He always said that he didn’t have the stories for the first ones, and that is why he started with IV-V-VI.
Carl - Well, he didn’t have the screenplays…
Darth Tardy – I know, he always said, “They’re more political”…
Carl - He just had the concepts somewhere jotted down.
Darth Tardy - I have it somewhere, it’s in the Bantha Tracks somewhere, it’s in print…
Carl - Well, he’s even let it slip what the third trilogy was going to be about…
Darth Tardy - … it’s all just boring political…
Carl - … which actually ties into Episode III, but he’s probably going to completely throw that all out because he is not doing them.
FrostySkywalker - Wait, he’s actually mentioned…
Carl – Originally, there was a secondary character… there was a character in Episode III and something happens to that character and he’s gone, and he does not return until Episode VII…
JedtheHutt - That’s right… I remember that…
Carl - … and he becomes a main character of the last trilogy. And a lot of… a lot of the inside speculation was that it was a clone of Anakin. They find out that there was this clone of Anakin and they have to get to him, both the remnants of the Empire and the New Republic. The key is to find out if he’s the “good” Anakin or the “bad” Anakin.
Moriarty - Ah.
Carl - And the whole crux of the last trilogy was sixty-year-old Luke trying to set up the new Jedi Order, his temptation with the Dark Side, and this new Anakin clone ultimately saving Luke from the Dark Side.
Darth Tardy - Wow… that is totally different than…
Moriarty - But that is never going to happen.
Carl - No.
Darth Tardy - Gary Kurtz did this interview right after Episode I came out…
Moriarty - That would be great… but…
Darth Tardy - We’ve talked about this before…
Moriarty - (referring to AOTC playing on the screen behind the group) Now he is going to be back? Is he going to help build Vader?
Hellboy - Wat Tambor?
Darth Tardy - We’ve talked about it at other meetings, but Gary Kurtz talked about it, that VII, VII, IX were going to take place right after JEDI… and Vader was supposed to… he did want to change…
Carl - But you have to take what Kurtz said with a grain of salt… a lot of Kurtz’s stuff is ideas that he had that he probably never said anything to Lucas about.
Darth Tardy - There was one thing for sure that he was right about, when Vader said that he wanted Luke to join him and they could destroy the Emperor, that is gone by the ROTJ that we get, that’s gone. He doesn’t… that Vader in JEDI. He’s all “I do this and we can’t do that,” but he is so sick with the moment that this is his son, and they can rule the galaxy together, and they destroy the Emperor… that’s gone. That’s clearly missing.
Carl - Lucas himself has said in past interviews that, “The character who survives Episode III and his adventures” is what the third trilogy was about. That’s always been pretty interesting to me. But now it’s all about Anakin and Luke’s arc…
Darth Tardy - … but originally Leia wasn’t Anakin’s sister.
Moriarty - But that would still make it the whole thing about Anakin…
Obi-Swan - It would.
(It should be noted here, that sarah and JedtheHutt whisper to each other that the council had wandered way too far from what they were there to discuss. But they’re the pickier members of the group, so who cares.)
Carl - Because ultimately it would be Anakin who saves the day at the very end of I guess Episode IX and kill the Dark Side or whatever it is once and for all. Then the whole saga really would be about Anakin. Hopefully there will be a way to do that in the EU some day.
JedtheHutt - Has there been any more speculation what the EU character is going to be in Episode III?
Mxyzlptlk – It’s minor.
Darth Tardy - Is there an EU character in Episode III?
Carl - It’s so small, no one has even seen anything, heard anything. I thought for sure it was going to be that Asajj Ventress…
Darth Tardy - Mara Jade?
Moriarty - But Bai Ling is not playing…
Carl - No. She’s a senator.
Moriarty - She’s a senator.
Suddenly there is a lot of fanboy chatter all over each other with the thought of a Mara Jade.
Carl - When I heard that someone was going to have lightsabers that was not a Jedi, I thought, hmm… but it’s not her.
Mxyzlptlk – It’s Grievous.
Hellboy - Maybe its Admiral Thrawn.
JedtheHutt - Yeah, that is what I am thinking. We’re going to see an Ensign Thrawn or something.
Obi-Swan - And Durge isn’t in the movie at all, is he?
Various “no’s.”
Obi-Swan - Really? Because… you know, its funny, when I first saw that drawing, from I guess it was that comic…
Carl - I don’t even want him in the cartoon, but he’s in the cartoon…
Obi-Swan - He reminded me of Darth Vader. He sort of had the same helmet, and I thought, you know, that would be sort of the first glimpse of…
Carl - To me it look like something out of Transformers Armada. Awful.
Moriarty – It’s very much an action figure design, I’ll agree with that. It looks like it came off of the drawing board of an action figure designer, not a film set.
Carl - It did not come from directly from Lucasfilm, the design.
Moriarty - But now he’s in THE CLONE WARS. Quick show of hands… who has seen a Clone Wars episode?
About half of the people present raise their hands.
Darth Tardy - Is it out already?
Sarah - No, November 7th.
Moriarty - OK, so we saw four hands, and the verdict?
JedtheHutt - Symphony!
Sarah – It’s amazing.
Darth Tardy - How did you see it?
Sarah - Well, they showed the first episode at ComicCon…
A few lucky members start talking about other episodes they had managed to see through various channels, all of which expressed how great they thought the cartoons were as far as animation and story. The subject of the music came up…and someone says, “But they are using John Williams’s music.”
Carl - They may come up with a new theme, or may not, but really, we’re talking about twenty three-minute shorts, which obviously they are going to put on DVD as one sixty-minute cartoon.
Moriarty - And they’re saying that the best way to experience them is with Hyperspace? That you’re going to be able to get commentary?
Carl – Yeah, you’ll be able to get commentary with Tartakovsky.
Moriarty - OK. Let’s go. Does anyone know dates? When does it start?
Sarah - Um, yeah, November 7th.
Hellboy - Who’s going to put that out then eventually? Is it going to be a Warner release thing then?
As usually, everyone voices their opinion at once, with the consensus being that it’s a Warner release since its Cartoon Network, and a few comments to which website would have more, Cartoon Network or Hyperspace, with the opinion that they’d both have content but Hyperspace was again where it was at.
Moriarty - At what point will it all have aired?
Sarah - Well, aren’t they showing the first ten now through February and then the second ten next year?
Carl - I think they’re setting it up so the DVD comes out right before Episode III.
Hellboy - The interesting thing is that Lucas has an intense, INTENSE hatred for Warner Brothers that dates back to THX. Hates them.
Obi-Swan - Wouldn’t it make more sense to have all the cartoons come out on DVD before Christmas of next year?
Carl - It could be Christmas.
Moriarty - But Christmas next year is the SE DVDs…
FrostySkywalker - Those are coming out more in the fall.
Carl - I’ve heard from too many people that it’s September for the SE DVDs.
Lots of jokes made about DVD, companies that make DVDs, and something about the upcoming ALIEN QUADRILOGY. Off-the record.
Carl - I’ll go back to the SE again, you know. The tweaking already irks people, but I’ve got this itch to scratch myself after watching the prequels. The end of JEDI isn’t going to do it for me after the prequels, with the geriatric Obi-Wan, with Anakin and Yoda. I’m almost inclined to just go ahead and put Hayden and Ewan there and have Qui-Gon there…
Moriarty - And I would then just start dropping hundreds of Jedi in. Like all the Jedi should come back then. It should be RETURN OF THE JEDI plural, not just one. It should be like, “Okay, it’s safe for us again. We can all come back.”
Carl - Or you could have, out of respect for Alec Guinness and Sebastian Shaw, have them there and then Luke looks and they turn into their prequel form and then Qui-Gon shows up. And people are going to be like, “Well, Luke doesn’t know who Qui-Gon is.” Well, who cares, we know who Qui-Gon is… that is the whole point. I want closure!
Moriarty - And really, would you rather look like Ewan McGregor or Alec Guinness if you could choose your form?
Carl - Well, Episode III... it’s both of them. He really does look like a young Alec.
FrostySkywalker - I was going to say that this all goes together with what exactly is the reason why some of them disappear… because if it’s something that has to be spoken to each other, like I have to tell you to be able to reappear down the road, then it only makes sense for a few people.
Carl - I just think that it would be some closure if they turned into their old forms before they fell, before Anakin fell, before Obi-Wan made the mistake, and Qui-Gon set the whole chain of events in motion by taking on Anakin. That would just make so much more sense to me in the whole scheme of things.
Darth Tardy - Yoda would have hair. He would… or… who knows what Yoda would look like at age fifty. (laughter)
Hellboy – It’s asking a lot… what’s done is done.
Carl - To me...
Moriarty - Wait a minute. Since when has Lucas said, “what is done is done”?! He’s the guy who created this idea of liquid filmmaking, and “what is done is done” should not be in his vocabulary.
Which leads to discussion of what was changed and touched up in the Indiana Jones DVDs, which covered how things like touched up boulders, snake reflections, cleaned up prints etc, are really things that no one can complain about… the 14 optical fixes. Basically, the movies look amazing from what has shown to the public so far.
Mr.Beaks - So my question is, is there ever going to be a point while Lucas is alive, where he says, “We’re done”?
Carl - I actually think he is getting there, to be honest. I think the prequel thing, and now what people are calling the “Archival Editions”, are his way of saying, “Let’s wrap this thing up for once and for all.” He really does want to go off and do completely different, other, experimental… I actually see him making some very, off-center, experimental things with Ewan McGregor and actors like that. Stuff that is going to completely split him apart from that diehard STAR WARS fan base once and for all. At heart, Lucas… he’s become this very commercial filmmaker in the past 23 years, but at heart he is the guy who made that original THX-1138. He was the eccentric, experimental filmmaker in that whole USC group of guys. He was the one who was going out and doing these weird, non-linear things, and I really believe that deep down, that is his filmmaking soul. He wants to wrap up this stuff and get… he enjoys the popcorn films and the film history like the serials and all that stuff, but I think he wants to get that stuff out of his system as well.
Carl - I wish he would have done Radioland Murders the way he originally intended it to, that he would have directed that. It would have been much darker.
Moriarty - Well, it would have been great because ’99 was his return to filmmaking, and if he would’ve done RED TAILS, which was long rumored, instead of a STAR WARS film, it would have been the same year that Malick did THIN RED LINE and the same year that Spielberg did SAVING PRIVATE RYAN…
JedtheHutt - That was ’98.
Moriarty - It would have been the same general time, and it would have been nice to see him throw down his war movie at the same time as those other guys.
Carl - Well, remember, originally Lucas was going to do APOCALYPSE NOW…
Moriarty - Yeah, he’s always…he sort of did.
Carl - I am sure it would have been just as dark if he would have done it.
Moriarty - When you watch MORE AMERICAN GRAFFITI, all the Terry the Toad stuff was him, and that is his APOCALYPSE NOW. I mean, it’s the way he wanted to shoot it, and it’s very… it’s shot 16mm, so all the stuff he had planned, he sort of got out of his system there.
Obi-Swan - And then he could have gone on and made another movie, and just waited, and gone on and made the next film, which would have been 2005, which would have been Episode III.
Moriarty - Just Episode III.
Obi-Swan - That’s it.
Moriarty and Carl Cunningham talking at once.
Moriarty - No I & II would have been so experimental, it would have been great…
Carl - But it’s his Frankenstein’s monster…
Moriarty - Yeah, but it would have been a cool one… it would have been neat.
Mr.Beaks - I like what Carl Cunningham is saying about Star Wars being his Frankenstein monster. He has spent all this time from ’77 to now trying to get back to the point where he can make experimental films. But there is this sense of obligation, that he had to do something, and if he did the trilogies, and if he did the prequels, that he’d at least had to do them justice. And yet doing them justice, he’s not connected to the material the way that the fans are connected with the material…
Carl - … there is a detachment…
Mr.Beaks - There is the detachment, so now it’s gotten to the point where he’s like, “You know, all right, I’ll do the best I can. I don’t know if it will ever be good enough, but that is the trap that I have fallen into. At least I know at the end of this, I can go back and do something I really want to do.” And if that is the case, then really, all is forgiven. I can understand it.
Carl - That really looks like where it is going.
Hellboy - The obligation is financial also. He has this empire that has to run now, and that is the way it is. ILM has…
Carl - I have to admire him for that. He uses STAR WARS to finance these other things that otherwise would never get off the ground…
Hellboy - Yeah, they’re used for R&D and stuff like that, but they have to bill, I think it’s like $2-3 million per quarter just to keep everything going. So I think it’s a financial thing also, where it’s like, “Well, we’ve gotta do it.”
Carl - And plus also, he’s not a studio. He’s an independent filmmaker. So he has to have the licensing, the merchandising tie-ins, and all that. They wouldn’t exist if they didn’t have that stuff.
Hellboy - I mean, they don’t have a commercial division. They shut that down. They work on fewer and fewer films every year, because the talent pool is going everywhere…
Carl - … it’s been siphoned…
Moriarty - They have created and given some great talent a start over the years. Inevitably, it goes elsewhere after awhile.
Carl - What it is, it’s the proving ground for animators, and there is always a high turnover rate….
Hellboy - … well, there are guys who stay forever…
Carl - … like Muren…
Hellboy - Well, Dennis does that because he doesn’t have to do anything else. He’s never going to have to work again. He’s one of the largest landowners in Marin County.
Carl - Yeah. Yeah.
Hellboy - But when you leave, you leave on bad terms. Everybody that I know has left and they were in a position of, you know, not middle management, but creative whatever…
Carl - … well, there are a lot of assets…
Hellboy - But there is a cult of competition there that everyone is being pushed together…
Carl - … there is that, but it would be like working for Microsoft and going to Sun Systems or whatever. But there are also a lot of assets, physical assets, and then um, artistic assets. There is the Pixar thing, which has always been a great deal for Lucas. That he sold them to Jobs… part of the deal was that he sold them for a song, but…
Moriarty - But he gets all the R&D.
Carl - Yeah, they have to share all the stuff with him for free.
Moriarty - And they’ve pushed it harder than anybody in terms of character and in terms of being able to give life to things.
Carl - Right….
Moriarty - I think that was his masterstroke.
Carl - But ILM is always going to have a high turn-over rate because they don’t pay as much. But people are like, “Well, it’s ILM, and I can go work on this big-time project, cut my teeth on it, and then get the gig at…”
Moriarty - And you will. If you work at ILM, you’ll end up working on a HARRY POTTER, or a STAR WARS, or HULK, or whatever.
Hellboy - You just don’t want to be on, you know, THE MUMMY RETURNS.
Carl - That’s the other thing. People are always, like, “ILM stinks now”, but you have to understand the different levels of talent.
Hellboy - The A team, the B team, the C team…
Carl - If someone is going to ILM and saying “Do my effects, but I’ve only got five bucks,” then how great are they going to look?
Hellboy - And there are scheduling issues. They just don’t have time to do everything.
Moriarty - Rob Coleman can only work on so many things.
(Tape goes out here)And that means it’s a perfect place to break. We’ll have more in a few days.
"Moriarty" out.
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Oct 26, 2003 5:22:58 AM CST
It's hard to look forward to the next Star Wars movie just knowi
by rolling_stone
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of course, I live in China. It's a rip and burn of the laserdisc. Excellent quality.
Haven't got Ep. 5 and 6 yet...just haven't found them. -
...Grevious. What's that? He's not been in any EU stuff? No, not yet--he's in the last episode of the Clone Wars cartoon, which comes out in February. So technically he's an "EU character". Though by that rationale, technically so's Boba Fett, who first appeared in the dreaded Holiday Special...although I prefer to think of the Holiday Special as a horrifying alternate universe...
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The character that was supposed to appear in III and "re-appear" in VII got written out when Lucas decided to overhaul the SW Universe and make Leia Luke's (2 year younger) twin sister.----------------------- The line "there is another" refered to this mystery character and was originally intended to set up those stories for VII-IX (according to an old interview with Kurtz, IIRC).
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http://www.filmthreat.com/Interviews.asp?Id=8
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Oct 26, 2003 7:34:54 AM CST
I give a fug what any of you ferrets say... Star Wars is great,
by theginger twit
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Oct 26, 2003 8:00:11 AM CST
IT WAS I WHO IMPREGNATED YOUR MOTHER...... IT WAS I WHO ARRANGED
by theginger twit
IT WAS I WHO HAD THE TUSKEN RAIDERS CAPTURE YOUR MOTHER... Do you get it? it's gotta happen this way!!
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Can someone answer that?
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Seriously, I love the OT! Make NO mistake, they were fantastic (I even loved ROTJ)!! But for crying out loud, cant you see that these new SW films SUCK and that more and more SW fans throughout the world are losing faith as each day passes? You boldly claim that once all six SW films are made "they'll kick everything else to shit"! How on earth can you quantify this ridiculous comment???? Its almost universally agreed that TPM was shit and ATOC wasnt far behind. (Though I am one of the few who actually prefer TPM to ATOC as it 'felt' more like a starwars film to me -if that makes any sense). Anyway to cap it all off you then say "at least it's not boring (lotr anyone?)"! ....First of all, when you say that you are almost admitting that SW is shit...its like saying "being kicked in the bollocks hurts like a bitch but is still preferable to having them cut off with a rusty saw!!".......And secondly, i'm sorry but the LOTR films are cinematic marvels and will be remembered as this generation's SW. Its clear to me that you're just bitter and jealous that these new SW films cant hold a candle to the LOTR films!!!! Otherwise you wouldve said something like "at least it's not boring (gigli anyone?)"! Or used some other random crap film instead to make your point. Though it seems the 'point' you are trying to make isnt worth a toss anyway!
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EU = "Extended Universe"... refers to characters and stories from the comics, video games, tv specials. cartoons, etc.----------- Swartz, thanks for the link to the article... I couldn't find it when I posted.
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ROTS, if that is the name sounds like it could be quite interesting as long as they do it right. We all know that Lucas is a 'little' bit weak when it comes to writing, but maybe he will allow some advice on better writing, all the while maintaining his vision.
However, these Jedi Council discussions are frustratingly off-topic. I want to hear insider news on STAR WARS, and not some crap about how Lucas did or did not do the indie flicks that he truly likes doing. If you all want to talk about that, do us a favor and make a seperate web page and talk about that stuff for as long as you want. Those that are interested will read it. Many who check out Jedi Council discussions, like myself, want to hear what you guys know about Episode 3. -
Oct 26, 2003 9:22:49 AM CST
When A New Hope is released with a new score by John Williams, t
by darth_billy
I'm telling you. I can't believe that everyone seems to have forgotten that about a year and a half a go, when Episode II was being released, John Williams, said in some interview that Lucas was going to get him to rescore some of Episode IV, to make it all fit in with the prequels and the sequels.
Having said that, it is something that always made sense to me, because clearly, you have this problem where the Darth Vader theme, features in Episode II, and is certainly going to be a strong part of Episode III, and then suddenly when Vader appears on that Rebel Ship, at the beginning of Episode IV, we have some other tune. It would make sense for the Vader theme to be screaming out here. However, geekland is going to scream bloody murder, because by changing the music, the film will be changed far more than Greedo shooting first.
So forget all this, Release the original versions of the original Trilogy. The real issue that needs to be addressed, is that Episode IV, is going to have a new score........................And for the record, none of this will matter jot, when Return of the King is released, for we will have a new 'Holy' Trilogy.....................And finally I think that I am enjoying these Star Wars talkbacks, far more than I have enjoyed Episodes I and II, and I suspect more than I will enjoy episode II, therefore I am going all out spoiler for the third film. Because despite any amazing ideas (like Padme having a ceserian(sp?) section on her deathbed, Lucas will make it all suck in the final film, just like the Tusken raider slaughter in Episode II, what was that about...................................Well, that was all cathartic and nice. -
I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but I've got a question which I'd like to have answered: How does Darth Vader / Anakin Skywalker know that he has a son and that Luke is it? From the different ideas you (the Jedi Council) have thrown out, there will be some betrayal (real or perceived) of Anakin by the Jedi / Obi-Wan. This betrayal may or may not have to do with Padme's fate. Obviously, we know that she doesn't die for a little while since Leia says she remembers her mother in ROTJ so it's safe to assume that she won't die at the end of Ep. III. She will give birth to twins and one (Leia) will go with Padme to live on Alderaan while the other (Luke) will be taken to Tatooine (sp?) to live with the Lars family. The only thing I can come up with is either Anakin was present when Luke was born but not Leia or the Emperor told him about Luke after the destruction of the first Death Star (between Eps. IV & V). If anyone has an answer, I'd sure like to hear it. Because from where I'm sitting, that seems to be a pretty darned important issue that no one seems to really be concerned with addressing.
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I can only tell you what I think and what I've derived from different sources, mainly on the Internet and none of it is really new and fresh, but perhaps it can help you.
- I heard that Luke was born first, and that Anakin was only around to witness it. Possibly something drew him away from Leia's birth. Nobody really knows (outside of Lucas I guess) if Vader knew in Episode IV whether or not he had a son. We should find out for sure in Episode 3.
- The mother that Leia remembers may not be Padme, but instead the wife of Bail Antilles (the guy who becomes Leia's adopted father and takes her to Alderaan)... but I don't think Padme dies. Enough people die in Episode 3, so why kill off one of the few truly good characters like her? We'll find out.
- The Emperor may have known about Leia, but held back the information in case Vader and Luke reunited. It is always good to have a backup plan.
Like I said, this is not really new news, and mostly my opinion. -
Oct 26, 2003 10:06:33 AM CST
I just saw a dog with a DIAPER on walk by my window...
by boris the blade
He had on a red sweatshirt too. Talk about surreal.
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A lot of people think that because Leia heard Luke through the Force that she was the other hope that Yoda spoke of. Although that makes perfect sense because she is technically a Skywalker, ORIGINALLY she was not the sister of Luke. I mean, I may be from Louisiana and all, but he KISSED her in Empire and that would be pretty sick! Yet if you think about it, Obi-Wan and Luke both used the Force on other beings to control their minds, so who's to say that I Jedi cannot project their thoughts or voices into the mind of another? Yeah, I know it's a shot in the dark, but it's just a little something to think about.
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On the other side of the coin, Leia obviously didn't have the same training as Luke, and possibly not the same MIDI-CHLORIAN (sorry guys I hate it too, but it is the definition ol' Georgie gave us) count as Luke. As far as the torturing goes, she was Leia Organa, not Leia Skywalker until Return Of the Jedi. That's probably why Vader didn't sense her Force capability.
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Besides, being a Skywalker doesn't necessarily mean you're Force sensitive... look at Shmi Skywalker. -
It's the tag that Lucasfilm (I guess?) put on all Star Wars non-movie stuff--books, comics, games, etc. So characters like Mara Jade and Thrawn and Han and Leia's kiddies are all expanded universe characters.
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Oct 26, 2003 10:49:09 AM CST
I always assumed Leia was talking about her adopted mom in that
by andy travis
I mean, at that point she thought she was Bail Organa's kid. Why wouldn't she think "Mrs. Organa" was her mom? I very much doubt Padme hooks up with Bail...multiple marriages just doesn't seem "Star Wars-y" to me. And I figure Vader has to at the very least have an extremely good reason to think she's dead, and being the wife of a prominant senator doesn't seem very low-profile. Throw a toe-tag on her--she's done for, folks.
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Hello to all (and this is the 2nd time I've posted this, I MUST be heard!). A couple of pointers, first one in ref to the council's hypothesis on Dooko's allegiance. I think the fact that when he addresses a "A Dark Lord of the Sith" as "Master", its a fairly safe bet that he is also aligned to the Sith. So much for the widsom of the council. Secondly, and this is a biggy - Go Home! I feel pity for each and every one of these so-called "spouses" if they indeed a. Are human or b. Exist. You read so finely between the lines when there is nothing to see, you are scrutinising every nuance when, hey, its Star Wars, not Harold Pinter. Lucas' directorial style would never encompass such subtleties as facial expressions, he puts the players on set and lets them get on with it. And bloody hell, you're contriving and inventing such inticate speculation from thin air - do you really think that the guy who wrote TPM would really have such elaborate machinations in mind eg he glanced this way to suggest this, but he really meant to imply that to the other guy IF indeed it was raining that day etc. Its so banal. The best bit is, I'm finishing work soon (right after I go over to the Cabin Fever review and insult Harry K), I'm going home to my (hot-damn!) girlfriend and gonna get a damn-good rubbin'. I suggest all those that can do the latter too. Those that can't, ask yourselves why. Live Forever...
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You will see the truth. Some questions... Why is it so obvious, even to little kids by the end of TPM, that Sidious is Palpatine if it is supposed to be a secret? How come there is no direct on-screen evidence that Palpatine and Sidious are one and the same, only half clues that rely on audience inference? Why will Lucas talk about big spoilers for future audiences like Vader's identity, but not the relationship between Palpatine and Sidious? Why would the lead villain risk discovery by hanging out in a room with the top Jedi? Why is the danger of assumption a repeated theme in the PT? Why does Dooku tell Obi that the Senate is under the control of a Sith, unless to send the Jedi on a wild goose chase? Why were midichlorians introduced in the first act? Why aren't the clonetroopers made from a Jedi or Sith? Why haven't we seen Sidious's eyes? Why do the Kaminoans go to great lengths to explain the obedience of clones? Why does Anakin explain other behavior modification technology like the bombs implanted in slaves? Why would the villain allow himself to be put in danger during a staged kidnapping? Face it, the PT Palpatine is a force-free puppet used by Sidious to attain the highest office. I've got more points, but this is off the top of my head. I'm still waiting for the "Essay Addressing Timeless Assumption: Palpatine is Nefarious Interloper Sidious." by the great Emos-Edud. I hope he's doing okay in the army. Maybe he'll get to finish the essay while on Christmas break from basic training...
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For a while there, I too assumed Palpatine was a clone since the Jedi Council didn't all freak out when standing in the same room with such a jaw-dropping concentration of the Dark Side of the Force. Unfortunately, I think Lucas already killed that one by saying that the Dark Side "clouds" everything. I think that's an afterthought of his, but it gives him an excuse to keep the Jedi clueless about the villain in their midst. Which is fine with me, at this point. Lucas has already completely demystified and devalued the Jedi Order, making them a bunch of weak-minded dupes who deserve what they get. It's a shame, because everybody I knew wanted to BE a Jedi, growing up. The way Obi-Wan spoke about it, becoming a Jedi sounded like achieving nirvana. Now, anybody can wield Jedi power if they have enough "midichlorians" in them, and Obi-Wan himself can be outwitted not only by a bounty hunter, but by a fucking five-year-old padawan. And, as far as Anakin goes, he's one of the worst. He got beaten by an old man in AOTC, and by the inevitability of the next film, we're gonna see him get chopped to pieces. AGAIN. Lucas has not shown us anything particularly amazing about Anakin Skywalker. He couldn't even bring himself to show Anakin wiping out that whole village of Tusken Raiders. We just get to hear about it in a whiny, tearful confession to a young woman who doesn't let it stop her from marrying the idiot (and who can apparently easily survive anything that a Jedi can). You know where I think this whole thing derailed? It wasn't even the script for THE PHANTOM MENACE - it was Lucas choosing Jake Lloyd over that other kid in the final three casting choices on the DVD - the quiet, weird blond kid. You know who I'm talking about? THAT kid was Anakin Skywalker - not the happy-go-lucky soapbox derby-winner that we actually got. He even looked more like Mark Hamill. I would have bought that THAT kid could eventually snap and start killing people and become Vader. And, all it would have taken was a scene where Anakin is working on his pod racer or something, and Jar Jar does something annoying, and Anakin hits him or yells at him, like a kid who suddenly kicks a harmless puppy. Then you could say, "All right - THIS kid could turn into a destroyer of worlds." (It might also have given the annoying-but-goodhearted Jar Jar a little more significance.) As it is, though, I've never bought Anakin Skywalker as Darth Vader. And, not even as a Jedi. As such, no matter what Lucas has him do in the new film, it hasn't been set up well enough.
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Hi, My name is Fernwick and I am a Star Wars'aholic. Or I WAS one before the the prequel trilogy. I would like for someone here since this is supposely contact heaven to once and for all comment on www.supershadow.com This 'contact' claims to speak to Lucas weekly or montly, have a copy of the written script, claims to have been told that Lucas will allow him to do the sequel trilogy after his death. And has a LARGE following who swear by God he is telling the truth. Claims to be IN Episode II and says he will be a Jedi in episode III. I have emailed Star Wars.com's website and they wont respond but I cant stand to see this guy lie, IF he is lying but everyone seems to pretend he doesnt exist. He of course claims this is because of jealousy to his inside contacts. Moriarty!! HARRY!! Someone comment!!!! Fernwick
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He should just go back and restore the original theatrical versions for the DVDs, and then simply REMAKE IV-VI the way he obviously would like to. Completely new versions with new actors and everything. I mean, he's already hacked our memories of the originals to shreds, so why even cling to what's left? Just redo the whole thing! That way when Greedo shoots first, it'll look like it was always supposed to be that way, and not a sickening perversion of a classic film moment.
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I was around to see the origianl in theaters..75 times that year...and had been a fan up too TPM. Here is the problem with SW; Suprise its Lucas. The man lives in a Pc, Hippy, trippy, single dad shell. He forgot how to be a young MAN full of ambition, lust and fun. He is now safe up in Marin surrounded by political leftists, dejected old hippies and old washed up 60's rock stars and is now so PC and leftist in his views he wouldn't know a dark story if it walked up his drivway and robbed him at gunpoint. Every sory now has at least a semi-happy ending, there is always somthing cute, it's safe, it's comforting, it's so very very pc. I can actually see ep.III having peace marches in coruscant, with people carrying "Jedi out of Genosis" and "Yoda is a terrorist" signs.
George, come out of the ranch, move into oaktown, let your kids ride the bus too school, and have a steak while driving a Hummer. You have to experiance the darkside to write about it.
Damn, I loved it when Vader was just a murderous bastard who finally saw the light, now he's turned into a good guy with mommy and self loathing issues. -
that all thes people are bashing star wars now but they are so obsessed they have meetings discussing rumors they've ehard on the net. are u people really trying to say u wish they never had ep 1-3?? yeah right u geeks need this.
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While this talkback has so far been more interesting than most recent SW discussions, it seems that some people are still insistant on perpetrating the same tired "Luca$ the hack raped my childhood", "Prequels are [insert favorite scatological term]", "SW is dead, join us in LotR fandom" routines. Now it's perfectly OK to hate the prequels (which no one believes are anything near perfect) but if you REALLY want to show just how "dead" SW is - DON'T POST ANYTHING ON SW TALKBACKS. Just imagine what a message could be sent if a review of some obscure sub-Saharan film got more posts than EPISODE III! The fact that people still take the time to write the same nasty things, must prove something about the series...
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I'll go with that. I was watching SW again the other day, and doesn't it look like R2 used the Force on that poor red droid? :)
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Oct 26, 2003 5:24:51 PM CST
George Lucas is the sexiest tomboy childhood-rapist on the plane
by magyarman
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I knew nothing about 90 percent until reading this 'news' and TB. But that poster about supershadow raises a valid question and, of course, nobody 'inside' answers it or even acknowledges it. I went to the site... who the hell is this guy? And I didn't find it on the website, but is that true that he says Lucas gave him permission to do Star Wars sequels after he(Lucas) dies? I guess that kills the high-profile fellow director theory(i.e.-Steven Spielberg(get it SS?), who always professed an interest in directing a Star Wars film.) Well... guess we may never know if it's truth or fiction.
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Though it is kind of long, I think "Dark Lord of the Sith" would be a better title. It has such a ring to it and it perfectly describes the fate of Anakin in the third prequel.
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I think they went off topic a bit too often here, and I found it hard to follow what they were talking about with all the random comments and off-the-record stuff. Sounded interesting though, as is this Gary Kurtz interview I'm reading at the moment. The more I think about it the more I think having a sequel trilogy (ep VII, VIII and IX) would be cool if Lucas did indeed hand it over to Spielburg. Probably wishful thinking though. Some of the different directions Gary Kurtz said the OT story was going to go in sounded cool, but I don't know if I could have taken that bittersweet ending ROTJ was apparently going to have. I prefer the closure the ending of ROTJ provides, and that great feeling you get when you see the hero's celebrating victory against all odds over evil and tyranny. The fact that Leia was Luke's sister does seem a bit thrown in to tie up all the loose ends easily, but there was that scene in Empire where Luke calls to Leia which adds more significance to her being his sister. Someone on this talkback suggested that Leia doesn't necessarily need to be able to use the force for that to happen because the Jedi could use the 'Jedi mind trick' to manipulate people's minds therefore they could be able to use the force to project thoughts into other people's mind regardless of whether they can use the force or not. Fair point, but the Jedi mind trick's only supposed to be able to work on the weak minded according to Obi wan, therefore telepathy should also only work on weak minded, and Leia obviously wasn't weak minded, plus surely Luke wouldn't have had enough control over the force in Empire to be able to use a Jedi mind trick on Leia. He was only a trainee afterall, and leia was quite a far way away from him, whereas the Jedi mind trick seemed to require eye contact. Also, it's not like Leia being Luke's sister has no significance in ROTJ. It's when Vader threatens to turn Leia to the dark side that causes Luke to flip in Jedi afterall, so she provided the trigger Vader manipulated to unleash Luke's anger and almost turn him to the dark side. As Obi wan said "Bury your feelings deep down Luke, they do you credit, but they can be made to serve the emperor"
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Ok, one person acknowledged my posting. And that is good, now someone here please tell me if HE is nuts or am I nuts? This guy either REALLY is the ultimate insider or the biggest lying fraud on the internet. At his website he talks about the whole trilogy and even posts what epidode VII is supposed to be!!! Will someone here help me demand that we find out if its true or not? Harry here is an insider as is Moriarty, why dont you guys please let us know? Come on guys!!! And NO I am not a friend of Shadow in fact I hate this guy since he was at one point taking donations to get access to his information. That is the point I emailed Lucasfilm and Star Wars.com and even my friends were, but we STILL dont know if he is a fraud because NOONE acknowledges he exists and I dont know if its because Harry and them are jealous? Or because its just fake and they dont want him to get publicity but SOMEONE say SOMETHING!
Fernwick
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Oct 26, 2003 7:11:29 PM CST
A long long time ago Star Wars movies were terrific entertainmen
by tarl_cabot
but that was before the dark time, before the insipid Special Editions and then of course the turgid Prequels...I will see Episode III once, as I saw Episode II once. I'll be done with this "franchise" after that. No DVD purchases or "EU" interest whatsoever.I will not pay to see Indy 4 either. I don't want to see an old fart cracking the whip and abusing my affection for the greatest action film ever.
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This is not a matter of opinion. It's a fact. A sad, sad fact. Twenty years from now people will be watching the Original Trilogy and mumbling, "Goddamnit those prequels sucked."
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Register.com lists the registrant of "www.supershadow.com" as..........................................
Mickey Suttle.......................
2339 24th Ave. NE.............
Hickory, NC 28601............
(828) 256 - 7395 -
Anybody have an idea what kind of part she has in this movie?
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Oct 27, 2003 12:41:44 AM CST
Yeah and how about then the ghosts at the end of ROTJ morph into
by industrykiller
We might as well if we are going to take it further. OK I usually love the Jedi COuncil but this is ridiculous. Is this Carl jack-ass George Lucas in a fucking costume? The guy isn't going to do experimental "avante garde" cinema after Star Wars is over you fucking idiot. That's just the rhetoric Lucas uses to make himself feel better when he realizes what a terrible filmmaker he's become. You know what Lucas will do after Star Wars? NOTHING OF ARTISTIC MERIT!! Maybe he'll produce something nice but that's as close as they will come. Let's make no mistake in saying that he is a terrible filmmaker. I mean anyone who calls George Lucas an "independent filmmaker" must be on acid. Get this guy the fuck out of there. And you guys want further tweaking of the originals!? Are you out of your god damn minds? No the original films aren't perfect. Why?? BECAUSE THEY WERE MADE IN THE FUCKING 70'S!!! They did a fucking incredible job with what they had at the time and that shouldn't be bastardized. It was the best they could do and changing them more further robs them of their soul. You guys really seem to be attempting to justify that Lucas has annihilated his legacy with the prequels. WHy can't we just say that the man got older, didn't make films for a long time, had some ahrd personal times, changed as a person, lost his talent completely and thats that. Because that's what happened. None of this detached from the series so it's ok bullshit. I don't care if he is detached from the series, then he should have let someone else make the god damned films. It made me ill when Beaks said that if that's the case then all is forgiven. So from now on I guess when a director makes a terrible film he can just call Beaks and say "I didn't feel too close to the source material" and Beaks will have to start his review with "The film is bad but that's ok". And Moriarty, Terry's stuff in More American Grafitti was his Apocalypse now????? THAT'S at Lucas used in place of his war masterpiece? More American Grafitti? Well if that little observation is true then let's just pack the whole fucking thing up and say Lucas was a hack from teh start and Star Wars was a fluke. C'mon guys gain some insight.
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Oct 27, 2003 12:57:43 AM CST
So what your saying Bill Maher is that it's ok that Lucas makes
by industrykiller
and no one has any right to bitch. Wow I wish everyone had that frame of mind. Then maybe we would still be a British colony. And no I do not think this is as important as the revolutionary wars (as you'll probably accuse me of infering right after saying I live in my basement and have never kissed a girl.) People say these things about him because they are true. And maybe just maybe if they are repeated over and over something will give. No one expects him to give up all the commercial aspects of the Star Wars films and no one wants him to. But to create for the sole purpose of raking in more cash when you are a multi billionaire is pathetic. Especially when you throw out any and all characterisation and story. And yeah Lucas has created some amazing characters but he's also created one of the worst in film history: Jar Jar Binks. And just because he wasn't a hack in the 70's doesn't mean he isn't a hack now. And yes...hack are occasionally given Oscar nominations you ass hat.
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Oct 27, 2003 1:22:48 AM CST
"No, the fact that you obsess over whether Greedo shot first "
by tarl_cabot
That was a diliberate attempt to revise Han Solo's character by making him more role-model friendly so he doesn't "kill in cold blood", according to Lucas; having kids means you lose your balls and instinct for storytelling,evidently. That is a legitimate criticism, especially since Greedo apparently shoots very poorly for a hired bounty killer/hunter! It was insulting to the intelligence of anyone who ever saw that scene before the revision and ridiculous because it just doesn't work. That is one thing I don't like about the Special editions. I don't think the Jabba scene was neccessary either. What about Jabba's mystery and the whole build up to his meeting after 2 films of him being mentioned? I went into Jedi being very curious who 'Jabba' was and what a 'Hutt' was. But that was the old Lucas who knew how to captivate an audience. You can keep these shitty prequels. Vader has been ruined for me. He was this awesome, imposing yet calm villian. Now I see this whiny little boy band singer like bitch. He's a total pussy too. Fuck.
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There's no Grando in this one folks:
Star Wars Episode 3
Plot Summary Script Synopsis Story
by
George Lucas
According to the opening-text crawl that opens Episode 3, the Clone Wars continue to rage between the Old Republic and the Confederacy of Independent Systems (The Separatists). The opening-text crawl also reveals that the enemy Separatists have taken Supreme Chancellor Palpatine hostage. Next, we see an epic space battle taking place over Coruscant between the Republic military forces and the Separatist -
Fuck that guy.
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Except in my case it will probably be 3-6. Or 4-6. Or if he only releases "special editions", none on official DVD, I'll just watch the bootlegs. People won't give a shit about the prequels, they will simply be ignored like most crappy sequels.
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Or do you prefer "numbnuts"?
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I greatly enjoyed reading Magnus Steele's version of what will go down in Ep. III.........One question: If Amidala dies, then who is Leia referring to when she talks about her "mother" in ROTJ?? Thanks.
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I really hope he's working on a new one for Ep3. Can't wait.
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it smells like a toilet when he talks. This guy is just some retard that thinks it is fun to yank peoples chains. I looked up the credits of episode III on IMDB and there is no character named Nebar Foxis, his supposed jedi character, anywhere on the movie. And they even list nemoidian ship pilot, and jedi extra. Also if you read his synopsis of episode 7 you can just tell it reeks of amaturish fanboy drivel. The part where he says R2 crashes into the back of the evil jedi is laughable. The droids have never appeared in direct jedi on jedi confrontations.
Furthermore all of the information found on his website has been lifted from other sources including the book timelines and the galaxy map. Don't give this guy a second look he is a total fraud. -
And has stunk after JPark 1.
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First, there is the problem of--how do both Darth Vader AND the Emperor know that Luke is Vader's son? Two possibilities here--either they somehow discover it post-ANH, or they knew all along. ************************************************************
The knew-all-along idea does not make much sense. If they knew all along that Luke was Vader's son, and was alive, it seems likely they would keep tabs on him. But, they fail to track Luke well enough to stop the destruction of the Death Star. And Vader is surprised to sense/meet up with Kenobi. But it does work if the Emperor, based on his success with Anakin, wants Luke to live and grow up, so that he can seduce another powerful figure into becoming a servant. Perhaps the answer is that at the end of Episode III, Anakin/Vader is left knowing that his son lives, but he does not know where. Of course why he wouldn't think to look on his HOME PLANET is beyond me. Maybe a better answer, a much much cooler answer (IMO) is that Anakin ALLOWS Obi-Wan to escape with his son. Even in the OT, Vader shows a stong attraction and protective streak regarding Luke. Maybe his anguish over the death of Padme extends his feelings for his son. Even in ROTJ, years later, Luke can sense the good hidden in Vader. Maybe that good propels Anakin to trust Obi-Wan with his son. Who knows. ************************************************************
The second continuity problem is summarized in one exchange: Obi-Wan: "That boy is our last hope." Yoda: "No. There is another." Who is the other? As we discover that Luke and Leia are siblings, we left to assume that Yoda was referring to Leia. ************************************************************ But there is a problem with this...didn't Obi-Wan know that Luke had a sister?? If he has any knowledge of Leia at the end of Episode III, it creates a continuity problem. It hinges on who the "other" is that Yoda speaks about. EITHER it is Leia, in which case Obi-Wan obviously does not know about her, since he says Luke is the "last hope." OR, it is someone other than Leia, who is not revealed in the OT (a good set-up for a final trilogy: the lost Jedi). In this case, Obi-Wan could have knowledge of Leia, but is would have to include knowledge that she is not strong with the Force. Otherwise she would be a "hope." The EU novels (Shadow of Empire etc) would seem to contradict this option, since Leia in fact begins Jedi training.
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"molester you now,i will.force myself on you,yes"
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Like a good war, this talkback as been raging for so long I don't believe the original meaning or purpose has been retained. Can someone please post a new Star Wars-related news item on the home page so all these "people" (biting tongue) have something new to chew over? In the meantime... I've noticed questions very, very rarely get answered on these boards, so this may be an exercise in futility, if not being facectious. But here goes: ROTJ Luke Skywalker would get his arse kicked by his daddy, Anakin, version AOTC. Discuss. Go on, you know you want to...
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