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Herc

Published at: Oct. 8, 2003, 10:14 a.m. CST

I am – Hercules!!

What we said about this one back on July 30:

* Spike’s a dang ghost! Well… A major character in the episode will refer to Spike as “a ghost -- close enough, anyhow.” Cleavers pass right through Spike, as do doors and walls. He mocks Angel incessantly, and Angel has no means to escape the ghostly taunting!

* And check it out. Spike is somehow “stuck” to Angel! Another reason for blondie not to look up a key slayer pal!

* But don’t worry, girls! Unlike Cordy’s longtime roomie Dennis, Spike can be seen. Well, he kind of blurs in and out, and even disappears at times. Ghost-style. If you will.

* For the second time in two episodes, Angel will badly ruffle the feathers of his new Wolfram & Hart underlings.

* For the second time in two episodes, Angel will rankle a key Wolfram & Hart client. This week’s disgruntled? One Magnus Hainsley. No relation to “West Wing’s” hot red hot and blonde Republican Ainsley Hayes. One presumes.

* Hainsley, a telekinetic, runs what Angel terms a “body shop” and has uses for the recently deceased. He services an inhuman clientele. If you’re thinking snacks? You’d be wrong. (Herc affixes a finger-and-thumb “L” to his forehead.)

* Hainsley stops short of dusting Angel, noting that the senior pardners still have plans for the series’ title character.

* Angel pulls an “Eliot Ness” on Hainsley. Which Spike mocks as well.

* Hainsley hints that Spike’s ghostly status could be temporary – if Spike teams with Hainsley against Angel.

* But it turns out the flesh Hainsley initially promises Spike won’t look very Spike-like. But will nonetheless be very Buffy-boyfriend-like. IF you know what we mean.

* Spike intimates that he likes Winifred Burkle in a more-than-brotherly fashion!

"Angel" returns to the WB Oct. 1. "Angel" 5.2 airs Oct. 8.

The biggest news, one supposes, is that Spike is not so much stuck to Angel as he is to Wolfram & Hart, which owns the amulet. Elvis can leave the building, but he gets yanked back to the firm every time he hits the city limit. So no visits to Europe to visit ol’ cookie dough, the fabulous Buffy Summers.

Oh, and get this: as “Just Rewards” opens, it’s only been 19 days since Spike and Buffy held hands for the last time!

It’s written by David Fury and Ben Edlund, and worthy of those writers. The funnest parts, as one might gather, involve Spike catching up with Angel and Harmony and filling the rest of Team Angel in on that soul he acquired at the end of season six. (Angel’s tales of Sunnydale apparently didn’t include word of Spike turning good.)

The fellow who plays Hainsley is built like Danny DeVito, but has a really cool evil Vincent Price-type voice.

Herc’s rating for “Angel” 5.2?

***1/2

The Hercules T. Strong Rating System:
  • ***** better than we deserve
  • **** better than most motion pictures
  • *** actually worth your valuable time
  • ** as horrible as most stuff on TV
  • * makes you quietly pray for bulletins

9 p.m. Wednesday. The WB.





Readers Talkback

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  • Oct. 8, 2003, 10:20 a.m. CST

    Its about time.

    by superzario

    Sure we get an Arnold talk back but I have to wait for Angel? Bah! And what happened to the Q&A style Angel report? I liked that.

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 10:37 a.m. CST

    I have high hopes for this season.

    by Chastain-86

    Of course, I had high hopes for last season as well, and look how THAT turned out. By the way, interesting turn of events, turning Gunn into a lawyer. Makes you wonder how that "brain enhancement" is going to figure in later on, since nothing W&H gives you is without its price...

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 11:04 a.m. CST

    Hope for Capt. Forehead

    by retroactive71

    The first episode of this season's Angel was off to an uneven start. It felt a lot like the first episode of the series, when they were still trying to find their legs and figure out what the show was about. However, with the addition of James Marsters in "Just Rewards," the show is demonstrating hints of real promise. I was worried that with the Angel gang moving over to Wolfram & Hart that the show was going to be jumping the shark shortly. But I'm now hopeful for this season and eagerly awaiting the next episode. Angel was my favorite show prior to this season and it still feels like the same show. Plus, the rivalry between Spike and Angel is a joy to watch. Sidenote: It's a shame that Magnus Hainsley, played incredibly well by TV veteran Victor Raider-Wexler, was killed off, because he was a great villain. Of course, in the Buffyverse, dead doesn't have to mean gone. But he was probably just a one-shot villain.

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Herc's up to something

    by Drath

    He gets crap if he posts nothing, crap if he doesn't also review, but then he's got other things to do, doesn't he? I think he deserves a break over the Q and A style. All we care about is a talkback so we can hear ourselves speak anyway, right? Huh? What do you mean you don't say your talkbacks out loud? Uh.....yeah.....me neither. ************* So if Spike can be a "sort of" ghost, WHY NOT LILAH?!?!!!!

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 11:32 a.m. CST

    wednesday wb...yippee

    by purplemonkeydw

    smallville leading angel is a good thing right? ...when is the oc coming back on...

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Harmony

    by joshuaonenine

    She was too funny last time, the way the show ended was genius. I hope spike is ghost status for too long.

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 12:01 p.m. CST

    Why would Spike visit Buffy ?

    by Frank_Serpico

    lemme get this straight Spike was buffy's bitch was 2 years straight but she still sucked face with Angel the second he came back and decided that she was baking powder ( or something ) Jesus Christ .. does this guy have any self respect whatsoever ???? Anways Angel freezing the villains assets was just super-cool . He's really settling into his position of power well and it really suits him. I wonder what Giles would think of Angel being the head of W and H ???

  • Hooray! Spike's back!

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 1:05 p.m. CST

    ATS S5 sounds promising

    by Askani_

    From what I've read in reviews and spoilers it would seem Spike's addition to the show has been sensible and eased in, not like many fellow geeks speculated forced and bland. Mutant Enemy YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE!! Gunn and Lorne as big bads for s5 have them go corrupt with power, redeem themselves, and die. Take Fred in the process and bring back (pre-saint)Cordy. The cast needs to be shaken up a bit and streamlined. Go back to your roots and work with DB, CC, AD, feel free to add JM and maybe Lightning Gwen but too many characters no matter how irrelevant (knox) tend to weaken the fun out of eps. Thats my opinion I could be wrong. Talkbackers feel free to reply preferrably aggressively

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 1:08 p.m. CST

    good ep

    by Jarek

    Watched the rough cut last week, and it was good. Really liking where Angel is going now.

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 1:49 p.m. CST

    I wouldn't hold yer breath waiting for CC to come back

    by DarthHomercles

    They asked her to leave, she didn't leave by choice. CC's character was run into the ground and I'm glad she's not around anymore. It's best to just leave well enough alone and concentrate on the remaining characters who haven't been fucked up yet.

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Vote!Vote!Vote!

    by jimminyatemyworl

    Vote for your fave Buffy Ep for a special 4 episode region 2 DVD here; http://www.freeserve.com/entertainment/buffy/. And vote to get once more with feeling to the top of the UK's Channel 4 best musicals list (it is already on there, no write in needed) here; http://www.channel4.com/film/newsfeatures/microsites/M/musicals/vote.jsp. Can't wait for the new season of Angel to be shown on this side of the pond, it sounds very cool. The first half of season 4 rocked with the beast and minnear at full flow, but the Jasmine stuff sucked. PS: Don't just vote for Hush as it will be on there anyway, more obscure eps please

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Gah. Spike on Fred.

    by chickenmonkey

    What is it about Fred that has all the guys falling for her? I just don't see it, honestly. And it's not just because I'm a flaming homosexual. Can we please have just *one* other Buffyverse gal who's never gone evil, so that there's at least a frickin' choice? I say again: Gah.

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 2:40 p.m. CST

    idea redux

    by blckmgk13

    I threw this out at the end of the last talkback for Angel and I had a few interesting responses but I was curious as to if anymore people wanted to chime in. Here is what I said, "I have always been one of the folks who want Buffy to be with Angel. I know. I am pathetic. But the thing that seems to be intriguing me right now is that maybe I would be equally happy if once Angel the Series is completed, if the last episode was merely just Angel walking alone in some distant post-apocalyptic future, with an area set aside of the friends he had. The last image before he walks on, is the tombstones of Wes, Faith, Buffy and others. Leave it so that despite his efforts during the course of the series, he still is immortal and still walking the earth alone. What do you guys think?"

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 2:54 p.m. CST

    This preview

    by JackBristow

    This preview by Herc is weak. Weak. Apparently I need to go ELSEWHERE to get a decent preview of this episode. Herc, I figured your anti-Angel bias (at least when competing with your blind love of Buffy) would cease or as least let up with the end of Buffy and Spike being on the show. But no, it's strong as ever. Regardless, I have a question. If this episode takes place just 19 days after "Chosen," then when are we going to hit the point where months pass between episodes? Supposedly it's June or July in the Whedon universe, yet Episode 5 is supposed to a Halloween-themed ep.

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 3:21 p.m. CST

    Just a question...

    by I Speak Jive

    Why don't the halfway intelligent vampires wear Kevlar vests with steel plates over their hearts? For every problem (wooden stakes to the heart), there is a solution.

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 3:40 p.m. CST

    Because Buffyverse vamps are dumb and arrogant as hell

    by Drath

    That's about the only explanation I can think of for why they don't use metal shields. Joss makes no secret that he wrote the vampires as dumb snarling monsters so they could be stock canon fodder heavies. Note that all his best villains were exceptions to that however.

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 4:03 p.m. CST

    Charisma

    by Harrys Man Boobs

    Comparing the first season that is running on TNT to the last few seasons: CC has really hagged out. I know she was preggers last season, but still! She was was much hotter in Buffy and the first few seasons of Angel. Did you ever see her on "Boy Meets World" in a little coctail waitress outfit. Yum Yum!!!

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Hainsley

    by SD Canis

    Hainsley isn't actually a Telekinetic he is a Necromancer which is how he manages to control Angels body and is capable of granting Spike a fleshy form.

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 9:53 p.m. CST

    WWBS

    by JackBristow

    What would Buffy say?

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 10:23 p.m. CST

    Spike's performance

    by TAE3001

    okay the show was good, could of been better.......... but damn JAmed MArsters is the master of his trade.. the man is good!!!!!!!! yall cannot tell me.. he was so damn believable, sarcastic, funny, and vulnerable at the end..damn damn damn... i kind of choked up a bit (well not really) but when he asked about Buffy with all dat damn emotion... i was like damn!!!!!!!! i am falling in love all over again!!! **** Sidenote*** when David Boreanz took off his shirt... was that a way of the execs (even him) telling people that he's still in shape?????... if you ask my opinion it looks like he was holdin his stomach in????? there was like no reason for him to go topless??? anybody else thought that was weird??? .

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 10:24 p.m. CST

    sorry for mis-spelling

    by TAE3001

    i mean James..

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 10:36 p.m. CST

    Fred's Cute...

    by BLADE

    Decent set of legs, looks good in a lab coat. Just hope this doesnt turn into the "Spike" show.

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 11:01 p.m. CST

    strongbad!

    by Razor42

    Anyone else noticing someone looking sorta like him delivering mail?

  • Oct. 8, 2003, 11:34 p.m. CST

    I hope . . .

    by Hamlet3145

    . . that it DOES turn in the Spike show.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 1:30 a.m. CST

    telekinetic?

    by astroesque

    i thought he was a necromancer not a telekinetic. >__<

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 1:36 a.m. CST

    Razor42

    by Lennard

    The wrestler delivering mail is a Key Player in a Future Angel ep its a 50's flash back ep......

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 2:38 a.m. CST

    That was rather disappointing

    by escaflowne_x

    One would think that when dealing with a necromancer, who's capable of controlling dead people, they'll be clever enough to bring humans to beat him. But no, leave it to two undead guy to beat him, which doesn't make any sense. Not to mention there isn't much for other characters to do. Wesley should have come and help out. It's also about time he got a subplot. Gunn's solution to beating Hainsley is to freeze his asset? Since when has he turned into Gavin Park? And the Angel and Spike interaction gets old real fast. I find Angel's interaction with other characters (ie. Wes, Gunn) to be far more interesting. Ditto with Spike interaction with other characters like Fred. They should have delved more into what W&H has in mind with the amulet, what sort of dissension within the ranks of W&H is going on, etc.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 7:35 a.m. CST

    Magnus Hainsley Actor

    by KingOfCrows

    Who is the actor who played Magnus Hainsley? He's been around for a long time. I think he's the same actor who shows up on Everybody Loves Raymond from time to time playing on of Frank's buddies. Can anyone confirm this? Bionic Monkey

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 8:38 a.m. CST

    the amulet

    by superzario

    "They should have delved more into what W&H has in mind with the amulet, what sort of dissension within the ranks of W&H is going on, etc." -- They did! At one point Wes hinted that Spike may be the Vamp with a soul the partners want. He was quickly cut off by Angel when Spike walked in.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 9:03 a.m. CST

    Nice of W&H to give Bane a job in the Mail Room.

    by Drath

    After Batman and Robin, I figured WB would lock him up forever. So he's important in a later episode? Hmmm. ************** I have to agree with people who don't want the show to devolve into Angel/Spike bickering now that I've seen how it plays. It already feels old. To be fair, this was hardly their best Spike/Angel fighting. Spike's appearance in season one was far superior. He was more merciless with the cutting remarks back then, his observations cut deep because they were so damned true, so brutally honest. I can't quite put my finger on why it doesn't work anymore. Maybe it's because Marsters is trying to make him "complicated" by inserting some humanity in the form of doubt into his attitude and thus removing some of the swagger and confidence he used to have. Or maybe he's bored with the character and trying to make it interesting. I don't know. The Spike act just feels phony now. Part of what made him cool was that he genuinely didn't CARE if he was forgiven for what he did and who he was, and somehow you knew he'd miraculously get away with it too (see his driving away triumphantly at the end of his Buffy season 3 episode). THAT'S what makes him such a great foil for Angel, he gets away with being a vampire when Angel doesn't. Liam has to atone for his sins, but William somehow gets off. They touched on this a little with the basement comment, but it didn't hold up because now, despite his protests to the contrary, Spike kinda *does* care about being forgiven and not just because he wants to shag Buffy. The ending about his fearing Hell made that all the more clear. They could still apply the old "you're not sorry you did bad things, you're just sorry you got caught" reasoning, but I'll bet that Spike will have to prove himself virtuous in the end. They're in the process of humanizing and developing him, and while that's admirable, I think in this case it also destroys what made him so fun in the first place. Can't win for trying sometimes.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 9:10 a.m. CST

    I was pleasantly surprised and more than a little disturbed by B

    by Big Bad Clone

    It's nice to have bad guys on (broadcast) tv capable of doing something actually evil.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Ambiguously Gay Lorne

    by WilliamTheBloody

    anybody catch the winkwink nudgenudge "depp and bloom" comment from lorne? funny. overall, dug the episode, though i saw the spike double (triple?) cross coming a mile away. just like Buffy S3 "Enemies".

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 9:34 a.m. CST

    Great episode

    by purplemonkeydw

    This season, I have to say, is verrrrrrrrrrrrry entertaining. I hope the 50's flashback takes us back to Strongbadia...maybe starting off at the stick...possibly moving on to the tire... Good Jorb Joss!

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 9:53 a.m. CST

    Drath, I sort of agree with you...

    by rev_skarekroe

    I do agree that Spike was more interesting when he wa purely a cocky villain, but it was established last season in Buffy that his swagger is pretty much just an act since he got his soul back. Indeed IIRC, he spent a couple of episodes trying to convince Buffy and himself that he was still a cold-hearted badass even when, deep down, he knew it wasn't true. I would like to know why his sould is apparently hellbound when all his evil actions were committed when he was soulless. The only thing I can figure is that since he had a soul when he chose the life of a vampire, that soul is complicitous in the crimes committed in it's absence. sk

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 10:28 a.m. CST

    good Spike Vs. bad Spike

    by realmsend.com

    Overall I thought episode 2 was great fun. Although I agree that evil Spike was very cool. He was never really THAT Cool. It was always kind of a cheezy cool. SO when they revealed it was all an act with his Bloody Poetry origin story it kinda made perfect sense. He's a geek masquerading as the "Big Bad". And then he got off on being evil and it all went to his head. SOOOO at anyrate my feeling is that the last 3 seasons worked so hard on the character arc of transforming Spike from Villian to martyr...that to reset him as evil again on the Angel show would be such a lame payoff. Nothing sucks more then someone constantly switching sides. I'll buy a villian seeing the errors of his ways...but to go back again just feels cheap. So I'm very happy to see this new stage in the Spike evolution building of the Buffy finale. Also I think Pissed off/jealous Angel is more fun to watch. It nice to see the possibility that someone could steal his thunder. Becuause Angel reacts like such a baby. Its things like that really force him to reavaluate how much he's really grown as a person.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 11:22 a.m. CST

    Very Good episode

    by Whedon

    The Spike Angel bickering was great and they really brought out the best in each other. As far as will this bickering get old, yeah sure it will but I won't mind if they keep it up for a few episodes. Favorite elements of the show were how easily Marsters slipped back into season 2 of BTVS Spike, when he appeared to double cross Angel and taking back what is rightfully his. Cool moment without a doubt. Line of the night belonged to Spike after seeing how Angel dispatched Hainsely's butler "A spoon?!" classic Marsters, Joss Please get this guy his own show.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 11:32 a.m. CST

    RE: Magnus Hainsley Actor

    by jim

    Magnus Hainsley was played by Victor Raider-Wexler. He does guest star on Everybody Loves Raymond. I recognized him from Seinfeld (he was the doctor who told George that Susan died from the toxic invitations). What did everyone else think James Marsters' accent? I have always found it to be perfect. However, there were a few times in this episode that it seemed off, that he did not do it as well as he always has. Or is that just my imagination?

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 11:38 a.m. CST

    Holy holy holy holy holy crap - or - crap for crap

    by Stoney-321

    My husband and I did a double take at yet another homestar runner ref. Strong Bad rules. Of course Joss digs that website, it's freaking hilarious. I am digging the smart Gunn. It's about time the brother got some due.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 12:20 p.m. CST

    RATINGS INCREASED

    by TAE3001

    WE.. JUST FOUND OUT THAT EPISODE 2, RATINGS INCREASED FROM EPISODE 1.... SHIT SOMETHING IS GOING RIGHT!! I AM SOO HAPPY THEY PUT jAMES IN THE SHOW IT JUST BRINGS LIFE TO IT! AND IT MAKES IT MORE EXCITING... hARMONY IS A GREAT ADDITION TOO. DAMN I LOVE lIFE!!! P.S WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE WESLEY THOUGH....

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 12:47 p.m. CST

    geez, brucetimmowns..

    by omarthesnake

    Yeah, Enterprise would be worth a talkback with its new direction, but Stargate? That shite? You're out of your frickin' mind, mate, if you think that's worth talking about instead of a new direction for Angel (which, for the record, at its worst has been better than SG1 at its best).

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Bob Hoskins, not Danny Devito

    by Chakalak

    Hainsley looked far more like Bob Hoskins, particularly as in his mamma-fixated psycho role in Felicia's Journey. And Alias tends to show a lot of extremely graphic violence committed by the bad guys - for example, the CIA agent's head in a box, or the numerous scenes of torture, particularly that of Marshall which was hard to take because he's so childlike.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Oh, fuck your Enterprise or SG1 talkback. I'd rather have a Nip/

    by Big Bad Clone

    Not to imply that Nip/Tuck and Reno 911 are pure shite like According to Jim or Still Standing or Coupling or etc. I rather like Reno and Nip/Tuck. Network TV (with a few exceptions) are like a trip to "fagville".

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 2:36 p.m. CST

    ANGEL HAS BEEN PICKED UP FOR A FULL SEASON!!

    by mpfanatic

    The WB has given the green light to a full season of Angel, which has performed well on Wednesdays. According to Variety, the Frog network had an option to cut back to 13 episodes if the show tanked. Good news!!!!!!!!!!

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 2:41 p.m. CST

    spike : defnitely one too many character

    by ulcer

    harmony was funny and sexy last week, now boring, whiny and repeative. Gunn has just gotten cool, now there is no time for him. No sexy Eve with her gleeful evil attitude. All the time goes to Spike annoying angel - an annoying us. We get it, we've seen this before, taciturn hero with an annoying sidekick -- it's a clich

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 2:55 p.m. CST

    kind of liking the new season...

    by weaselwife

    They lost me when Cordy floated up to heaven or wherever she went, so it took a whole heck of a lot to get me interested again. But when I heard Spike was joining the show, I gave it one more chance and now I'm back- as long as Spike is on-the character and James Marsters are just too good to waste as a short-term guest to hook Buffy fans into watching the show to boost ratings before they kill him off or something unworthy like that. I like what I've seen so far this season-I think the ensemble works. And from a purely shallow, sexist standpoint, with all due credit & respect for the great writing and acting, the show has four of the most gorgeous, sexy, and talented guys on television today. Especially James Marsters, but I admit I'm biased-it's the cheekbones...seriously, it's his incredibly expressive acting that makes me watch him. The show has that combination of solid, imaginative, intelligent writing, and truly talented actors that have the skill and ability to bring those characters to life. Without that delicate balance, all the cheekbones and abs in the world won't make the show watchable. It's why I stopped watching, but it's also why I'm giving it a second chance.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 3:59 p.m. CST

    Spike

    by dougmac

    The accent was a little off last night, but it was only noticable because it is usually so spot on. I saw Denisoff on an old Highlander episode the other day with no accent, that was strange too. Also, the talkbackers saying Spike has always been more talk than action, Buffy season 3 was a perfect exapmle of that. Sure vamps talk about the end of the world but that's just talk--we love you people strolling around like walking happy meals and Manchester United. (not the exact quote-but you get the jist)

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 4 p.m. CST

    Puffy the vampire

    by Petah2NC

    Is it just me, or does Boreanaz look like he's been hitting the Wolfram & Hart cafe a little bit lately? Not that it matters, the show's been awesome. Nice to see Spike here, and Marsters simply rocks. The final scene of last night's episode alone proved his value to this franchise. By the way, speaking of Enterprise, which a few folks mentioned earlier, I finally gave up on the thing last week. Scott Bakula finally drove me away. Not even T'Pol or Tripp could save this thing for me anymore. Bakula's "I am very constipated, get me some damn laxative" style of acting became way too mucht to take. Course it doesn't help that in one season his character has two modes -- I Am Nice, or I Am Pissed.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 4:48 p.m. CST

    What part of Angel's totally cut physique

    by HeftyLoomis

    Is fat esxactly? You saw him take his shirt off, right? The dude is sculpted. Lay off moron.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 5:09 p.m. CST

    Herc. We gots to do something about that hair.

    by ILUVmyspike

    I think the show is flawless so far. And maybe I'm just a big, fat girl but I miss the shit out of that spikey hair!! Come on ladies, let's make a stink! I'm convinced the only reason Dawn finally said something about Miss Kitty Fantastico last season on Buffy was because people on this site wouldn't quit bitching about the plot hole. So the hair isn't a plot hole, but it's still interrupting my Angel vision.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 5:32 p.m. CST

    Forget the hair. Can they fix all the plotholes from the last se

    by Big Bad Clone

    Was Joyce REALLY the first? What the hell is up with Dawn? What about the old broad with the "scythe"? How come the scythe had the power to give all potentials slayer powers? Why didn't they open the hellmouth and trap the uber vamps in the school and blow it up and then invade AFTER they all become slayers? Why did the First suck so bad? Where's Cordy? What's up with the powers that be? and on and on and on

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Well, Cordy is in a coma

    by Drath

    That's one down! The rest...well...anyone got anything?

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 9:24 p.m. CST

    Hannigan

    by johne5

    Dude I was reading the angel stuff on thewb.com website and it said that Willow was going to stop by this season. Cool

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 10:24 p.m. CST

    Long Live Angel.

    by Devil'sOwn

    Angel is an ensemble series, and Spike promises to add more flava to the sauce. They can't get rid of this Spike-stuck-in-immaterial-limbo crap soon enough for me, though. And to all the cynics who can't wait to piss all over the show, go watch PBS, ya tits. This is the problem with a talkback for a TV PROGRAM. You can rant when you pay to see a film with your greasecorn and watered down soda and mutants who come out of the woodwork to see it with you. But, c'mon. This show offers plenty of excitement, characterization, fun, creepiness, suspense, and far-out fantasy than just about anything else you're going to watch at home on a network station.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 10:30 p.m. CST

    Three and a half stars?

    by cooper2000

    Ive seen two episodes of Angel this season and I can clearly say this show is not what it used to be. The show seems out of whack now with the new situation of being employed by W&H and the characters (except Angel and Spike) have nothing to do anymore. When they went to stop the big baddie last night, where was Bad ass Wesley or the rest of the gang? They are relegated to the background and thats what I was affraid was going to happen. That and no story archs may finish this show off at the end of the season.

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 10:34 p.m. CST

    (lol) a.v (after vodka)

    by TAE3001

    I concur with dat thought........................ long live Whedonverse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 10:35 p.m. CST

    oops

    by TAE3001

    in response to devils own dat is........

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 10:50 p.m. CST

    Great the ratings have improved..

    by cooper2000

    but did it have to water a good show down to do it? People like the watered down, almost jumping the shark version than the Dark Angel with Story archs?

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 10:50 p.m. CST

    Did anyone tape this ep???

    by cathfnyc

    I could write pages of angry ranting cursing the failure of technology that somehow prevented my VCR from taping this week's Angel, but I won't. I will ask though, did anyone by any chance tape this ep and be willing to make me a copy? I could give you a blank tape or a little bit of money, and I'd be forever in your debt...let me know if you'd be willing... Thanks, Catherine

  • Oct. 9, 2003, 11:28 p.m. CST

    In response to harrys man boobs......

    by Askani_

    Dude, put the meth down. CC hagged out ?! my ass!!! I think her being rounder, fuller and in that "evil gypsy" black dress was the hottest she's ever been and many are the fans who think alike. Granted, she was slimmer (and younger)in the 1st few btvs but you want slim you got fred and eve gimme a full figured woman anyday not some bony twiggy wannabe. That having been said make gunn and or lorne bad have 'em bite the big one and bring back cordy baby fat and all please.... Thats just me, I could be wrong.

  • Oct. 10, 2003, 2:28 a.m. CST

    The only reason this week's Angel was less than perfect is...

    by NNNOOO!!!

    ... that right before it this week's "Smallville" KICKED SO MUCH ASS. I still can't believe they got so much story and character into 40 minutes.

  • Oct. 10, 2003, 9:34 a.m. CST

    Vote

    by the_talkbacker

    Remember everyone vote for the Buffy musical episode at http://www.channel4.com/film/newsfeatures/microsites/M/musicals/vote.jsp We don't want any old crap getting in there. And it is already on the list.

  • Oct. 10, 2003, 12:11 p.m. CST

    The Bane looking dude

    by Acid_Frio

    Who the hell is that guy? The wrestling face mask guy, who is he?..and did he have some motive for bringing spike back????

  • Oct. 10, 2003, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Don't rush things

    by FloydGandoli

    I always find these seasons take a few episodes to really take off. Everybody needs to relax and see where we're at about the 7th or 8th episode. One of the great thins about watching a complete season on DVD is finding out where things are going in a much more time effecient way.

  • Oct. 10, 2003, 2:19 p.m. CST

    Re: SMALLVILLE

    by koomoReborn

    I have to agree with the above that the Smallville ep this week was one huge bit of plot twist after another. It was as if they had crammed an entire season of plot and twists and revelations into one episode. It won me over to the show, but I can't believe they'll be able to keep up that pace. I've been watching TV since the 70s and I can't think of a one-hour episode of any series that crammed so much into it (and did it so well, to boot, especially considering how lame and hamhanded last season's cliffhanger and this season's premieres were). ANGEL is markedly improved from the last half of season 4, but as great a character as Spike is, a little goes a long way. Keep him around, use him every episode, whatever, just don't let him have more than, oh, about 10% of the dialogue. Gunn is STILL the most uninteresting character. Just focus on Angel, Wes, Lorne, and (surprising to me) Harmony and I'll be hooked every week.

  • Oct. 10, 2003, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Bane and Charisma

    by ZTR421

    That Bane-looking dude.... wasn't he strongbad?? And, Charisma is on Miss Match tonight... not any sort of comment on that show, just an FYI. :)

  • Oct. 10, 2003, 5:53 p.m. CST

    blckmgk13

    by jvrsn2

    That was a damn good idea son.... I like it it has a certain intrigue to it. I want him to kill Spike though...maybe in a fit of rage or maybe he'll go evil apeshit, but they need to throw down preferably not over Buffy, but maybe their theories about how things are done...I don't know for sure, but it's cool cause Angel has that Mythos about it that few other shows have on TV nowadays, something that I thought Buffy never had...Maybe I'm wrong I just started watching Angel again last week.

  • Oct. 10, 2003, 8:12 p.m. CST

    jvrsn2

    by blckmgk13

    I like the idea of Angel killing Spike as well. It doesn't even have to be in anger, don't get me wrong I want them to fight, but I want where Angel maybe accidentally kills Spike. Not necessarily in a "whoops" kind of way but in a way that can afflict Angel in such a way to really wrench on the pathos. Part of me really likes the ending that I suggested because it qould play against all our expectations. The end episode if like I suggested would be a big slap in the face to us all saying, "What? You think some 50 years of redemption makes up for the 200 some odd years of sadistic evil he let loose upon the world? Um no." It would make Angel so much more of a tragic figure, I want him to have redemption as much as anyone else, but part of me appreciates the character more in his perpetual state of borderline agony. For him to have the cliched happy ending seems to trivialize just how great of a hero he was. How many heroes in history have a happy ending? Really? I want to know that Angel as a figure of redemption is much more eternal than our lifetime or anyone else's.

  • Oct. 11, 2003, 5:07 a.m. CST

    Angel 5 Buffy ended

    by marvelcomicfan

    I believe W & H were not and are still not excited about the first trying to become a corporeal player in the buffyverse. This is why Angel has W&H LA office(amulet season 4 and Buffy finale). Buffy ended destroying the ubervamps (at least the hordes at the hellmouth) but I do not believe the First went out that easily, although unhappy with hellmouth crater. IE Glory had a weakness which was Ben, but the First so far has no weakness, just no corporeal form YET. I doubt it will have a destructible weakness, but evidently something locked it down and took its corporeal form. I think the First is even too much evil for W&H therefore they are betting Angel can put the First at bay with the W&H office. This is why they have not, and will not allow others to go directly after Angel. As for Spike, could be First and/or W&H that want him in play.

  • Oct. 11, 2003, 2:34 p.m. CST

    don't forget.....

    by Askani_

    gunn and lorne gotta go, fred too. Bring back cordy all round and full figured. Gunn has to go bad.

  • Oct. 12, 2003, 5:19 a.m. CST

    How Angel should end

    by Frank_Serpico

    Angel shanshu's and become human and THEN dies saving the world . That would just kick enormous amounts of ass , the fact that he saves the world after he has been relieved of his responsibility.

  • Oct. 12, 2003, 6:55 a.m. CST

    Serpico

    by blckmgk13

    Or even the opposite would be cool. He becomes human, and after however many years of him saving people and all, we think he would be all "Must save a baby from a burning home" or soemthing, but instead at the first opportunity he says, "Screw it, I got what I came for." And he walks away from said rescue. The End. heh heh. All right, now people will think I am just sadistic.

  • Oct. 12, 2003, 11:37 p.m. CST

    Angel is SOOOOO FAT...

    by Qwerty Uiop

    And now we have proof. Jeez, lay off the sticks of butter as snacks DB!