Cool News
AICN-Downunder: Japanese Story; Kangaroo; Stealth; Closer; King Kong; Superman; LOTR; Star Wars 3; Bad Boys 2
Well, it's ol' Father Geek here in Tejas with our latest report from Latauro, holdup in his shack in the Outback...
This shit just got real.
AICN-DOWNUNDER
AICN-DOWNUNDER
Okay, well I sat and watched the Emmys the other night. And, like everyone else, I yelled at the television, hoping that my television would somehow address my concerns and alter the outcome. But it didn’t (lousy Sony...).
Honestly, on the whole I didn’t really care about the results. I mean, “Raymond” does zero for me – I’m a little sick of seeing it win all the time, and it’s about bloody time Brian Cranston got some recognition – but mostly I don’t care. Except for one.
Christopher Misiano is a great director, and his work on “West Wing” is solid. But Alex Graves set a new benchmark for television direction with “Commencement”, the second-last episode of the same show. It is without a doubt the best directed hour of television I’ve ever seen. I was rendered speechless by the last five minutes, a perfect balance of writing, music, acting... it was as good as television gets.
So, Alex Graves, you get the esteemed honour of winning a Downemmy. That’s right – some geek a thousand miles away thinks you done good. Feels terrific, doesn’t it?
(Oh, and Paul McGann for the Doctor! He didn’t get enough of a go, sign him up already! Okay, I’m off to watch the AFL Grand Final.)
NEWS
* The biggest request I get is for RETURN OF THE KING news, and it’s only out of my love for you (the reader) that I’m constantly applying the Chinese water torture to my loyal New Zealand spies. It’s tough getting good info (given that six days out of the week they’re chained up in Phillipa Boyen’s basement), but AICN-D can be the first to give you the *official* running time. The theatrical cut of LOTR:ROTK will run for three and a half hours (give or take a minute), as opposed to the oft-rumoured 3 hours, 4 hours, 4 ½ hours... So there you go. Start planning your Decembers around that. And don’t forget to thank NZ’s own Mr Fusion.
* Australian scooper The White Whale has heard some rumblings from within the local industry... It seems that SUPERMAN may be shooting at the Sydney Foxy Studios within about two months, and that set construction will begin within the month. What makes this rumour any more legitimate than the others? Crew persons are being slowly gathered – some of the approached ones are from the STAR WARS set. Now if only they could find a Superman and a director, they’d be set.
White Whale’s scoopaliciousness doesn’t stop with Supes. Listen up – or skip to the next paragraph if you want to avoid STAR WARS spoilers: “Also, on the Star Wars front, saw a picture of Anakin after his brush with the volcano – now I have to come clean and admit that I hate the new Star Wars films – with a passion, but seeing this make-up appliance, well it just blew me away. It is so... full on – both his arms and his legs are burned off, his face is just horrific. Really very unsettling, and I mean that in a good way. Also got a look at the 'blockade runner' space ship that features in the film, quite neat, a real trip down 'memory' lane.” Thanks, Whale. I, for one, won’t be poaching you for scientific purposes.
* I know it’s been mentioned a million times already, but for the sake of completion, Naomi Watts may be playing Ann Darrow, the second-lead role made famous by Fay Wray, in Peter Jackson’s KING KONG. (Jackson making KONG was first mentioned in this column here: Just Click ... you’d think I’d get tired of mentioning it, but apparently not.) There’s also talk that studio chiefs are not happy with the big-money deal Jackson got to make the film. Apparently this could set a precedent for money going to the people who, y’know, actually make the films. We can’t have that!
* While we’re on the topic of Australian beauties, the gorgeous Cat Blanchett has been forced to pull out of Mike Nichol’s adaptation of Patrick Marber’s CLOSER, due to her pregnancy. It looks that Julia Roberts will fill her shoes, joining Jude Law, Natalie Portman and Clive Owen. Blanchett has already completed work on Martin Scorsese’s THE AVIATOR, and will quickly take part in Wes Anderson’s THE LIFE AQUATIC before the arrival of Cate Jnr.
* Columbia Pictures is all about the preproduction for Rob Cohen’s next film, STEALTH. The flick, which is a drama about US fighter pilots, will lens at Sydney’s Fox Studios from January 2004.
* Australian filmmaker Lee Robinson passed away on Monday, following a long illness. Robinson had been working in the industry since the 50s, lending his talents to such projects as TV’s “Skippy” and 1982’s HIGHEST HONOUR. Our sympathies go out to his family and friends.
AWARDS AND FESTIVALS
SCREEN PRODUCERS ASSOCIATION – FRINGE
For the first time, SPAA Fringe will split from the major conference this year when it’s staged in Byron Bay this November. Could this signal an end to civilisation as we know it? It’s possible.
SCREENSOUND AUSTRALIA LONGFORD LYELL LECTURE
On October 4, mosey on over to the Australian Centre of the Moving Image in Melbourne and you’ll hear filmmaker Tim Burstall (STORK, “Water Rats”) talking about things. Using sound. His talk will be followed by a screening of his 1986 film KANGAROO, starring Judy Davis and Colin Friels.
IF AWARDS
The IF Awards, to be held in Sydney on November 12, will have the coolness factor upped following the announcement that Deborah Mailman will host this year’s ceremony. Mailman, who is generally the best thing about anything she’s in, follows Libby Gorr, who hosted the previous two years’ shows.
BOX OFFICE
Johnny and Orlando held onto the top spot, with Will and Martin debuting at second. New releases FREAKY FRIDAY and RUGRATS GO WILD took sixth and seventh respectively, whereas JAPANESE STORY got tenth spot on previews alone.
Annnnd the winners are...
- 1. PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: CURSE OF THE BLACK PEARL
- 2. BAD BOYS II
- 3. FINDING NEMO
- 4. LEGALLY BLONDE 2
- 5. THE ITALIAN JOB
RELEASED THIS WEEK
Toni Collette goes bush, Jan De Bont manages to kill another franchise, Tian Zhuangzhuang gets un-oppressed, and Nick Giannopoulous proves that he can be desperately unfunny without resorting to self-proclaimed “wog humour”.
The New Releases Are...
- JAPANESE STORY
- LARA CROFT – TOMB RAIDER: THE CRADLE OF LIFE
- SPRINGTIME IN A SMALL TOWN
- THE WANNABES
REVIEWS
BAD BOYS II
BAD BOYS II
The thing I kept reading about BAD BOYS II on AICN is that it was going to be a “hard R”. There was going to be no holding back, no cutting down on the violence or language or sex or drugs to try and get a PG-13 rating. We have a different rating system in Australia, and so these terms rarely make any difference to me. All I wanted a good film, but I was pleased that they weren’t going to hold back on anything.
Boy, do I wish they’d made the PG-13 version.
This film suffers from a desire to be edgy. (It suffers from a lot of things, but this the one I’m going to start with.) It’s one thing to have a freedom to use language and violence without fear of censorship, but quite another to abuse that freedom. The word “fuck” quickly became comparable to the tired and overused catchphrases of bad sitcoms. The violence stopped having any meaning. The sex was desperate and gratuitous (seriously, a necrophilia joke?), and the Martin Lawrence Does Ecstasy scene was just about the lamest attempt at R-rated humour I’d ever seen.
I love the first film. I thought it was a classic. A great blend of cheese and comedy and action. Sure the plot made no sense, but it’s a great diversion whenever it comes on TV. So what was wrong with this one? How did they get it so badly, awfully, depressingly wrong?
First of all, I want to see a Special Edition Re-Edit. Not with extra footage, but with less. Follow Peter Weir’s example when he recut PICNIC AT HANGING WRONG and lose what’s not necessary. At the 90 minutes mark, I was looking at my watch. I could have sworn I’d been there for at least two hours. At the two hour mark, I was praying for the end. By the time the film had reached its 2 hours 40 minutes, I was prepared to shove bamboo shoots up Michael Bay’s fingernails. Did no one think this film was too long? I know not many people say “no” to Michael Bay, but surely Bruckheimer could have said *something*. Did he not realise that the longer the running time, the less sessions you can play therefore the less money the film makes? Did he not realise that there was over and hour of pointless material in here? Did he not realise that when it goes for twice the length it should, it just stops being entertaining?
There are many things that bothered me in the film. For one, the total disregard for human life. Yes, I know, it’s a hackneyed phrase that is always used to bash Hollywood, and I for one am sick of it (the phrase). But watching BB2, I understood. Watching innocent bystanders get blown to smithereens as Martin Lawrence and Will Smith made with the (attempted) funny was just astonishing to me. “This shit just got real.” That’s Lawrence’s line when he finds out his sister has been kidnapped. Wow. Talk about apt. Did they realise the relevance of that line? Did they realise that hundreds of people had just been killed, but now it’s a main character it’s suddenly important? Did they realise that line was pointing out the filmmakers’ own inhumanity?
I’ll avoid the contender for Most Unbelievable Plot Point of 2003 as they suit up and go to Cuba to rescue Gabrielle Union (did *anyone* buy that?), I’ll avoid the not-in-the-least-bit-smirkworthy racist banter, I’ll avoid the rats-fucking scene that was almost as bad as the Splinter flashback in TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES, and go to the actors. Because I have way too many complaints to fit into one review.
Will Smith. Big Willy’s recent indignation at an ID4 sequel is suddenly becoming very funny. BAD BOYS and MEN IN BLACK were very enjoyable, well put-together films. And he’s followed them with some pretty shitty sequels. Smith is fine, and he’s always fun to watch, but why bother when he hasn’t got the material? When he’s doing a pale imitation of his former success? What’s the point?
Martin Lawrence is a car crash of an entertainer, and the only thing I’ve been able to tolerate him in was the first BAD BOYS. I never saw any of his early stand-up work, but if it was anything like his performance in this, I’m amazed people pay him to work. He’s constantly falling back on foul language to compensate for a lack of jokes, and it really wore thin after about ten minutes. We get it. He said “fuck” again. Good one.
Gabrielle Union is fine but ultimately disposable in her thankless bikini love interest role. Peter Stormare desperately needs to stop playing clichéd Russians in Michael Bay films (okay, he’s not as bad as he was in ARMAGEDDON, but that would take some serious, serious work). It’s actually Emmy Award Winner Joe Pantoliano who comes off best here. And that’s even though he’s playing the most stereotypical character in the film: the stressed out screaming boss. Pantoliano is a very good actor, and when I see him in this I’m not carrying the baggage of Cypher or Ralphie Cifaretto. But that’s the best thing I can say for him. His character was being sent up years before he played him the first time around, the “so far up my ass” jokes fall flat, and the pressure-point-therapy running gag is nowhere near as funny as the writers seem to think it is.
All this would be bad enough without BAD BOYS II becoming the benchmark for New Racism. Have you heard about this? With two black leads, you’re allowed to be as racially irresponsible as you want. Here’s how it breaks down: black people are cool, white people are stuffy and uptight, Latinos are drug dealers and incompetents, Russians are drunks who can’t complete a sentence without referring to the fact that they’re Russian, and Jamaicans are Jesus freak stoners. And did anyone count the number of gay jokes in here? Was any one of them partially funny? What about the scene where they smashed a whole bunch of religious statuettes? Anyone?
The only scene I felt had potential for the funny was the bit where Lawrence and Smith scare the boy who’s come to take out Lawrence’s daughter. Sure it was amusing, but why was it in there? It felt like a scene that should have been at the start of the film. My theory: they realised that there wasn’t enough funny in that section of the film, so they either transplanted it from the beginning, or rushed back to reshoots. Coming straight after the big blowout between the two leads, it felt wrong. It felt out of place. Had it been in the beginning, it could have been brilliant.
And that leads me to the film’s biggest failing. Bigger than the racism, sexism, homophobia, bigger than the violence-without-consequence: the two lead characters clearly don’t like each other. Mike and Marcus do not get along. In the first film, the banter revolved around their friendship. You could see genuine affection between them. Here, their big argument scene means nothing because it felt like they hated one another in the first place. Was this an attempt to try something new for the buddy comedy genre? Because to me it was a colossal failure. Avoid.
JAPANESE STORY
It’s been an interesting year for Australian films. From BAD EGGS to UNDEAD, the focus has been on crowd-pleasing comedies, easy-to-watch entertainment that gets arses on seats. And why not? If there’s one problem with Australian films, it’s that nobody wants to watch them. They’re usually low-brow no-laugh comedies (THE WOG BOY) or wanky art house bullshit (THE MONKEY’S MASK). So this year has been an interesting push in the other direction: comedies that actually attract audiences and contain actual comedy, and now art house films that can walk the talk.
JAPANESE STORY starts off as a fish-out-of-water film: Japanese businessman in the desert with loud-mouthed Aussie businesswoman. And it’s done well. The plot is very efficient, the characters are well-drawn, the direction isn’t hopelessly self-conscious. And that was fine. I was happy watching what I felt was a fairly standard plot executed with precision.
Then it took a left turn.
I don’t want to go into too much – or, for that matter, *any* – detail, because the filmmakers have been suitably tight-lipped about what happens. And so they should be. JAPANESE STORY knows exactly where it’s headed from the beginning, even if we don’t.
Some scripts – and the best example that springs to mind is IDENTITY – have their idea firmly in mind, and lead the audience to a place in the first two acts. But their misdirection usually gets the better of them, and their setup proves to be infinitely more interesting than the ultimate payoff. This is a common problem, and JAPANESE STORY comes fairly close to it. But it doesn’t get there.
It’s a very economical film, an A-to-B-to-C, and it contains one of the finest performances you’re likely to see, as delivered by Toni Collette. There’s a reason this girl is in everything, and this is the best she’s been since... well, ever. I’m not a huge MURIEL’S WEDDING fan. As a matter of fact, I pretty much loathe the film. But Collette is always superb, and this is the film that should be her show reel.
JAPANESE STORY played at the Melbourne International Film Festival this year, and if you’re overseas you’ll probably be seeing this crop up in local festivals. If you’re Australian and near a theatre playing it, get there as soon as you can. I’m not going to feed you some story about “supporting a local film that blah blah blah”. In the end you only really want to see films for yourself, right? Me too. See this one.
DETAILS ABOUT THE UPCOMING STAR WARS: ULTIMATE EDITIONS
- In a special audio commentary, George Lucas will explain why he’s the only director in Hollywood who can get away with casting James Earl Jones and Natalie Portman as Mark Hamill’s parents
- Through digital alteration of his mouth and voice, Alec Guiness will now mention midiclorins at every available opportunity
- Han will no longer have a gun in the Cantina scene; instead, Greedo will shoot first, then have an unexpected heart attack
Peace out,
Latauro
downunder@aintitcoolmail.com
downunder@aintitcoolmail.com
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who cares...
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Jesus Christ, WHY?
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God im pathetic...
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maybe they should just shake hands and do a little dance - I'm sure CGI could make all that look believable
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can all go to fucking hell. It's amazing that two trilogies are being made "Down Under". one is good and one is absolute shit.
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Man, I like what I am reading.
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Yes, I guess it's tentatively called "Episode Three". I heard the first two made the last couple of years weren't that good. I think I may have even saw them in the theatre. Wait...my memory is...OMG...George don't...what are you doing?....midichlorians......Messa...Yippeeee!....Gungans....Jake get out of my mind..AHHHHHHH!
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Sep 29, 2003 4:46:25 PM CDT
I'm just glad Lucas got it finished before one of those old guys
by riskebiz
Christopher Lee isn't a spring chicken and neither is James Earl Jones or Ian McDiarmid. I was afraid one of them might pass on before shooting wrapped on Episode 3. Whew! Speaking of wrapping Episode 3 ... was that filmed with about zero buzz or what? I didn't even know they were filming. I thought they were just gearing up to start filming and next thing you know, they're done. James Earl Jones probably did his voice-over work a long time ago for his .... 2 seconds of work at the end of the film?
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I hear George was so impressed with Jake Loyd's work in the first movie, that he will be using his voice to re dub all of Yoda's dialogue for all 6 movies.
OB1: That boy was our only hope.
Yoda: Ooooppps -
Are you still working on it or is this a silent protest because of the Blacklist? In any case, does anyone find it interesting that he died the night he was the featured director on Turner Classic Movies? They showed ON THE WATERFRONT, BABY DOLL, AND STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE just last night. Creepy.
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maybe they could CGI Jake Lloyd as Yoda!! "I'll try lifting rocks - that's a good trick!"
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Sep 29, 2003 5:36:35 PM CDT
I hate Prequel Trilogy bashers with a passion. Idiots.
by darthgandalf 69
Seriouly, I can understand the problems some of you have with Phantom Menace, but there's no reason to hate Attack of the Clones the way you do, just like there's no reason to think Ep. 3 will be bad just because Ep. 2 was.
I bet at least 3/4 of the idiots here who say stuff like "omg the prequels suxxors" don't even understand the basic plot. Hell, some of you probably haven't even seen Ep. 2, because if you did you'd know that Jar-Jar was there for like 2 minutes total throughout the movie and there were no references to midi-chlorians throughout the entire film. I think part of the problem is a lot of people were so disappointed by Episode I (and, to some extent, rightfully so) that they didn't even give Episode II a chance at all.
Episode II did have it's flaws, yes- mainly, the acting between Hayden and Natalie Portman during the 'romantic' scenes. I agree those were pretty bad, but the movie didn't spend that much time on those scenes, and to say that they ruined the movie despite only being 20 minutes at maximum out of a 150 minute movie is ridiculous. Another complaint about Ep. II is the overuse of CGI, but why that in itself would ruin a movie even if the CGI is being used for story purposes and not vice-versa is beyond me.
Then come the people who say the story of Ep. II "is too hard to follow" or "makes no sense". Well, if you say that then it's because you're an idiot who can't read between the lines. Sorry, AotC had a plot that required a bit of thinking to put together. I know that's a change, both from the Original Trilogy and Phantom Menace, but guess what: this is a different style of movie then those are. If you don't like seeing movies that have vaguely complex storylines, go watch Carebears or something.
Ah, and on the opposite end of the spectrum, people who say the prequels are too 'kiddy'. I agree that Phantom Menace was far too lighthearted, but seriously, did you guys even watch Attack of the Clones. Yeah, it has a very small bit of stupid, childish humor (mainly the C-3PO thing during the beginning of the Geonosis Battle) but it's really a dark movie overall, more so then the Original Trilogy was.
So now, let's see, I've addressed the complaints about Attack of the Clones having bad acting in the love scenes, having "too much CGI", being too complex, being too immature, and just generally being the movie to follow up the disappointing Phantom Menace... What else do people say is wrong with the movie? Oh right, the best one of all, it doesn't have the same 'feel' as the Original Trilogy does. Basically, an excuse to say you don't like it simply because it's a prequel to the original films, not even a reason in itself. I think a lot of the problem is pure nostalgia... People who have grown up with the Original Trilogy and watched it for decades simply can't consider any 'newer' Star Wars movie to be of anywhere near equal quality, and dismiss it as a cheap attempt to rip off a great trilogy, once again without giving it a chance.
The really sad thing is, I know the majority of the people here aren't even going to acknowledge any of the points I made. I'm almost certain I'm going to get a bunch of replies to this saying stupid stuff that ultimatly amounts to no more than "u r st00p1d if u liek teh prequilz." But you know what, I don't care. I wanted to get my point across, and if no one gives a damn, that's their problem, not theirs. Although if I can get one person to agree with me on this, or even if I can get one person to challenge what I say with some real arguments instead of half-assed insults to me or the movies I'm defending, I'll be more then satisfied. -
http://a772.g.akamai.net/5/772/51/dceb98a304a021/1a1a1aaa2198c627970773d80669d84574a8d80d3cb12453c02589f25382f668c9329e0375e81785ea61cd36a40938aa0f83f86ad847ad2189ee59c23097/returnoftheking_m480.mov
Sweet ass! -
You think you could get to the point more quicker? I didn't even bother reading your post because it's always the same thing. People trying to explain this, trying to explain that. Who gives a shit. No one EVER changed his opinion about a movie from an AICN talkback, so save your breath.
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You goddamn right. About everything. Peace Out.
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"just like there's no reason to think Ep. 3 will be bad just because Ep. 2 was" -- errr, let's see. Same writer/director, same cast, same producer, same effects studio, shooting in the same area using most of the same crew and pre-production began immediately after the last one finished. Yeah, I'd say there's a pretty good reason to think Episode 3 will be of about the same quality as Episode 2, whether you think that's a good thing, or not.
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Sep 29, 2003 6:10:52 PM CDT
Anakin is burnt to a crisp in a molten pit of the 1st Death Star
by obiwampa
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How can Anakin's face be burned too horrifically? We see his face in ROTJ, it looks pretty healthy. Sure they have to have reconstructive surgery in a universe that has robotic arms, but how good is it.
And why can't they scan cool stuff when they see it. I wanna see. -
All that matters is that the prequels are on DVD and I get to see all the Jar Jar scenes over and over again. I don't see what all the complaining is about. I thought Jar Jar was funny. Better lines than C3PO. Lucas was a sell out in Episode 2 far as I'm concerned. He cut Jar Jar's part way too much. Jar Jar scenes were far superior to Jake Lloyd's and Hayden Christensen's sceens. But you really can't blame them. It's the dumb lines that Lucas gave them to say plus the multiple takes he should of done to make sure the scenes were done right.
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They are filming Superman and they have no star yet, WTF!!! I don't understand how the studios can't get "their guy". This is the Man of Steel and they can't get one single motherfucker to play him!!! What about the list of people they had in mind: Brendan Frasier, Nic Cage, Matthew McConaughey... they're fucking with us right?
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Dayam, is that all...I could go for that 4 1/2 hour running time. Ah well, that means the Return of the King extended edition should top out at about that. Excellent! As Conan will be sure to say...Cheers!
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...go back and re-read Chunky Soup's first post. You can always tell when college starts back up...Pud! comes back to AICN. He's like AICN's recurring pelvic sore. Oh yeah...STAR WARS rocks! LoTR rocks! Downunder...er, um...RAWKS!
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SW blows. Not just the prequels. All of the new ones blow... but especially the prequels (so far). The only good and consistent thing about SW is the music.
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Go thirsty or hold a painfully bladder? Nah, just wear diapers. Everyone will forgive each other their baggy, damp pants. The actual running time plus trailers and commercials will be at least 4 hours so forget about trying to hold it that long.
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Oh, clever name too. You point almost every single reason EP1 and Ep 2 sucked and then state that they were good? Why? The acting was terrible even from stars in the movies who ARE decent actors, Sam JACKSON, Liam Neeson Ewan McGregor and so on. The plot in both films was so transparent and obvious it was laughable. Anyone who thinks the plot of attack of the clones was "complex" is obviously a moron. Point in question, the bit in AOTC about the missing planet from the jedi library. Yoda and Obi-Wan can't figure it out but a fucking 8 year old can? And what was the answer to this seemingly impossible question? Somebody erased the files! Goddamn, it would take a child's intellect to think of that. In the FIRST place I mean, not in the movie. It doesn't even occur to Obi-wan, the supposed guru investigator that someone might have erased computer files that he was searching for? Fucking hell, good luck figuring out a bombing if you can't even work that out, genius... This one instance is typical of the latest 2 SW movies. I like the originals though I didn't really grow up with them, I was too young to see them at the movies, (except ROTJ.) But George really ain't trying anymore from what I can see. He spends 12 weeks shooting the movie and 2 years on post production. Doesn't that seem strange? Maybe one of George's sycophants should develop some backbone and inform him that you can't polish a turd... Anyhoo what's the point of whingeing, as someone pointed out above, since when did a post on a tb ever change someone's opinion about a movie? 3.5hrs eh? Methinks I won't be taking a supersize diet coke into ROTK when it comes out... And as MorGy correctly predicted, Cheers.
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The story was wonderful. (notice that i did not say the scripting of the dialogue) I think it had one of the best plots of both trilogies, second only to Empire. I loved the suprise that the emperor was playing both sides of the field for his own purposes. The emperor created the Rebel Alliance. That is awesome!! And don't give me that crap like you saw it coming from the start because you didn't. I didn't think that they could surprise in a "between" story, in which you know the beginning and end, but they did. And i liked it.
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I don't care how much you guys badmouth it, rave about how crappy it is, the fact is we all know we're going to see the 3rd one in theaters as soon as we can.
Not to mention, I have to thank everyone here, I really do. Your childish bickering and whining about movies, directors and actors you claim to despise but dedicate an unhealthy portion of your life to droning on about is forever a source of amusement for me and several of myy friends. -
Paraphrasing Ben Affleck, now's who's getting a good laugh? Cheers.
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I do believe Lucas when he says there will be no more SW movies--in his lifetime. But eventually the copyright will run out (won't it?), so whoever inherits the rights to SW would be foolish not to try and cash in before that happens. And I don't mean that in a bad way, making good movies and pursuing profit can go hand in hand.
The only question is when they will be set. I believe that, if in 30-50 yrs or so the opinion on the Prequels is still mixed, then they may be remade.
If that happens, then the biggest shame will be that the current cast (Portman, Christensen, McGregor) will be penalized in cinematic history for things beyond their control: the direction and lines they got from Lucas.
And I'm not saying that I thought the script and direction were bad. I believe more people like than dislike the Prequels. But they are polarizing, and hated by a significant minority. And its a shame because they could have been made differently (like ESB-Lucas' vision executed by someone else; or Lucas doing it differently himself) and then would have recieved a more positive reception.
This is not to bash Lucas, in fact I don't think he is the clueless hack some do, who just says 'action' and then mentally disappers until time to say 'cut.' I believe he got the performances out of the actors that he wanted; unfortunately his vision equals bad acting to many viewers. I think he wrote the dialogue he wanted, even though to many it equals shit. Whether sticking to his guns is admirable artistic integrity or just arrogance, I don't know. But I do believe it was at least inconsiderate to the audience and the actors because more modern, better dialogue could have went together with his vision of a kid-friendly, saturday matinee serial-inspired space fantasy. Maybe then TPM's great box office would have approached Titanic level, maybe AOTC would have kept the box office winning streak alive.
But if you do hate the Prequels, don't blame the actors. The 3 I mentioned are unquestionably talented, and COULD have given performances that would have been more universally praised. -
Sep 30, 2003 4:36:33 PM CDT
darth gandalf: an email i wrote to a friend after i first saw ao
by captain katanga
i stand by everything in it. People who hate the prequels have good reason to: "I preferred the phantom menace i think.
ok....i'm afraid i wasnt kidding, i hated attack of the clones, its not star wars any more, and i think george lucas is FUCKING BONKERS!
hmmm where to begin....
the acting and the script are FUCKING ATROCIOUS!!!! Everyone talks really s l o w l y, and anakin is TOTALLY WOODEN. They dont feel like real people
anymore. off the top of my head i think of that bit where he says to
amidala "i dont like the sand, its so rough and coarse, and not smooth, like you"
of
course i'm paraphrasing but the actual lines werent much better. I made the mistake of watching empire strikes back last night, and its the total opposite. there is real chemisty between han and leia, like when they
kiss on the millenium falcon "youre a scoundrel" "you like me because i'm a
scoundrel" "no i dont, i like nice men " "I'm nice men" "no youre not youre..." and then they kiss! MAGIC! The script is crucial to making a
good film. you cant gloss over it and say "well, okay the dialogue was atrocious but the action was good" and that makes it a good film...it doesnt.
There is no emotion in this film, its completely soulless. Every time there is the inkling of a bit of drama or emotion, its handled so ham-fistedly...
I mean, it doesnt take a genius to come up with the idea that
witnessing the death of his mother would be a good way to start anakin down
the road to the dark side. BUT he walks into the tent, she finds time to say
"i love you" and dies in his arms!!! I mean, at least they could have spent
a bit of time together, and then maybe he could have witnessed her
killed...
that would have been dramatic. And THEN, there was a bit when i thought it might get quite good, when he steps outside the tent and starts killing
tuskans....AND THEY CUT AWAY!!! The one scene that looked like it might have some real drama!
the look of the film is also horrible to me, totally horrible, a totally
fake looking, over cgi'd nightmare. its the same as phantom menace, none
of it is remotely convincing...you only have to look at lord of the rings
to see how a film can look incredible with SUBTLE, ARTISTIC use of cgi. In fact I'm amazed they can call it a film, when it has much more in common with
a cartoon. I couldnt believe it....i mean, the storm troopers in the first film looked great, and the clone troopers in this one should have been
men in suits....but he cgi'd them!!! madness!
Okay..let me see what else.... okay, the two headed commentator from
phantom
menace was terrible. Obviously, there are big links between our world
and
the star wars universe. the canteen scene from the first film is a good
example..... there must be bars on other planets, and it might look like
this. but the commentator was lucas getting the balance totally wrong,
and
putting far too much of our world into the star wars universe. and
vulgar
stuff from our world too. I hoped it would be missing from this
film....BUT
NO, we get a bar with big screen tvs showing sports.....and maybe that
wasnt
that bad, but then we get that fifties style diner, complete with red
leather upholstry and ...gulp.... a cheesy waitress on one wheel!!
ARRGGHHH!
I hated the action scenes in this one... the conveyer belt sequnce was
bloody awful. not only was that a crap concept, and completely pointless
and
random, but it was also hideously over cgid with much too much going on
on
the screen at the same time. The same with that gladiator arena at the
end,
where it just looked totally fake to me. and then theres how so often
the
characters do such stupid things.... like in that chase at the start,
anakin
suddenly jumps out of the speeder, falls about a thousand feet...AND
CATCHES
ON TO THE FUCKING BACK OF ZEN'S SPEEDER!!!!????!!! Arent we meant to
question how ridiculous that is? Why do the characters in these films
have
such superhuman abilites? in the first films it was more in the mind
than
anything else, with a bit of being able to move objects.... but now they
seem to be able to leap tall buildings in a single bound when they need
to.
Luke skywalker never did stuff like that.
And then theres how Lucas is managing to tear away every bit of dignity
the
characters from the first films had... like r2 and threepio. In the
first
films they were comic relief, but they also had something to do.
Threepio
helped save them from the garbage disposal thing...and various other
things.
In this one they are just there to deliver absolutely appalling jokes!
and
r2 now can fucking fly! When c3po was being dragged along and said "this
is
a drag" and then "I'm beside myself" I was just sinking into my chair.
In
empire when he was dismantled and being dragged along as they all ran to
save han, in a throwaway moment, you hear r2 beep and threepio snaps "of
course i've looked better!" ......now THAT was funny. I'm all for comic
relief but not when the jokes are this pathetic. In fact the 1000 strong
sellout audience was totally silent through most of the film, except
when
they laughed AT the film at bits that werent meant to be funny: anakins
nightmare when he look like he's receiving head... the pathetic bit when
amidala falls out of that ship, and shes lying there in a daze, and
someone
come up and asks if shes alright "yes" !!! and she just gets up!! LOL!
And then theres the Yoda bit. I was looking forward to his scenes the
whole
way through. Even though i had hated most of the film i still
thought...this
is going to be cool...and it almost was. and then he starts BOUNCING
AROUND
LIKE SONIC THE HEDGEHOG! It was hilarious for all the wrong reasons, it
loooked fake, it looked silly. I mean a puppet would have been better,
they
could have edited together a sequence which showed him fighting calmly
and
gracefully, almost like keanu reeves at the very end of the matrix....
but
no, his dignity went out the window too in my opinion, and he turned
into
sonic the kung fu hedgehog.
The crazy thing is before i went in, i was so up for it!!! I saw it with
my
friends james (star wars fan) jim (not a star wars fan) and james's
brother
(dont know)...and we all hated it. beforehand i was warning them that i
would be clapping and cheering, and that they should check their
cynicism at
the door! I didnt realise it would be shown digitally either, which gave
me
the horn, and then when the music started i was clapping and whistling
with
everyone else.... but oh dear what a let down.
I am totally amazed that you liked it, and at the reviews which have
been
alright. I dont know how lucas can get away with writing, acting and
directing this bad, all in the most horrible tastelesss and fake looking
cgi
hell! When obi wan was avoiding being chopped by a great big green fake
looking crab thing, i turned to james and whispered "get me out of
here".
The very idea that lucas claims he wants them ultimately to be watched
in
sequence as a 6 part series, when they are so completely different is
just
crazy! And the plot and the politics etc are just so boring. and you get
lucas saying "well, the star wars story was written 20 years ago" as if
his
hands are tied, its like the bible, he HAS to make rubbish films because
ITS
THE STORY and its set in stone!!!! Sheeesh! Was jar jar written 20 years
ago?!
I'm glad that a film like lord of the rings is around because to me it
is
like the polar opposite of these star wars films, and in many ways is
very
simlar to star wars and empire. everything thats wrong about phantom and
clones is right in lord of the rings. It shows that i am not not being
negative, lord of the rings is magical!
there is so much shit about this film that how can it be any
good? I
liked christopher lee, when he was taunting obi wan during their fght
"come
on, you disappoint me" etc, i thought "this would be good if it was part
of
a decent story with decent charaters.
Another shit bit... anakin on the back of that giant potato thing with a
snout, trying to stay on while amidala laughed! Oh my god, it looked so
rubbish!
The whole thing left me totally and utterly cold, i think its a damn
shame
that lucas is tarnishing the originals. Over complictaed story, terrible
acting, terrible dialogue, horrible cgi, ludicrous action sequences =
ONE
SERIOUSLY RUBBISH FILM! The most important thing is this: NO EMOTION...
I
didnt feel anything. Not only were the action scenes in star wars a new
hope
and lord of the rings FANTASTIC, but those films also had a central,
personal, moving story. Luke's journey isnt dissimilar to frodo's. They
are
about courage and friendship. I may be sounding a bit pompous now, but
that
really is why they work so well.. this film isnt about anything. Anakins
story is lost under all the crap.
I realise that it isnt perhaps THAT terrible in the world of film....
its
just that i cannot judge it without comparing it to the others." -
i agree with you. the prequels are perfectly enjoyable, and many people like them. the thing is, most people who post on here, or any website, prefer to speak negatively about the topic, since it invites some sort of argument at the hands of those who would disagree.
the prequels tell the story in a fashion that is more akin to eastern sensibilities, as opposed to the originals which are character driven and thus more accessible for western and european audiences.
i'm fully satisfied with the prequels, and have given my reasons countless times on too many boards. suffice it to say that as far as i'm concerned, while the LOTR trilogy certainly has had its moments (FOTR), and may well finish with excellence (ROTK) overall, i prefer the films Lucas is creating.
-
Sep 30, 2003 11:26:07 PM CDT
And they're comedies too Shepherd don't forget that!
by conan_the_humble
Well everybody I was in the cinema with was laughing uproariously at these 2 films. Not at the so-called humour being portrayed in the movies by C3PO etc but at the badness of it all, the sheer ineptitude of the movie making. Not one person that I've spoken to was awed by these movies. George aimed for a kids movie, well he should pay more attention to movies like Shrek or the Lion King if he wants to make a 'kids' movie. Not a half and half approach that ends up botching the whole thing. Cheers
-
Why can't we all just get along? We watch these movies for different reasons. I love to watch star wars for the space man inside of me. I want to see where this awesome fantasy will take me next.
I watch the lord of the rings to see one of the greatest adventures ever to be written on the page brought to life. I am almost always disappointed with the movie adaptations of books but the lord of the reings is a major exception. It was one thing to read about the beauty of middle earth, but to listen to the music describe it and to see it, that raises the experience to an entirely different level. In the translation from book to film, there are sacrifices, and many of them i hated. But the result was a more intimate story. Yeah it was very awkward at first to see all of the scenes with arwyn in the two towers. But when you look back at the books, you realize that she is not mentioned from the time that the fellowship leaves rivendell until the war is over. That is no love story. Peter Jackson made it one.
I know many of you hate the prequels and there are valid reasons for that. But if for nothing else, I watch them for entertainment and to learn more about darth vader, yoda, and obi wan. It's just cool to know more than we had. Before the prequels, were you not the least bit curious about Luke and Leia's parents? I sure as hell was! Yoda was awesome; what had he done with the other 899 years of his life? The prequels are cool stuff and i'm not going to write them off because of bad dialogue and acting; it still tells the story and that's all i want.
You guys complain about lucas's bad dialogue and poor direction for the actors. "It was so much better in Empire and ROTJ, what happened?" I know some of you know, but apparently not enough. George Lucas merely produced those two and laid out the story. Empire and RTOJ were directed IRVIN KERSHNER and written by LEIGH BRACKETT and LAWRENCE KASBAN. And despite how many millions of times you have watched the movies, this has never apparently clicked. I have no idea why Lucas did not call these people up again and I hate that he did not. But that's the way cinema goes. -
Nah. Can't be true.
-
but it's not bad going to have one hoky line in 6 hours, plus of movie footage. If only Georgie could match that I'd be happy. I'm not happy that the most recent SW movies suck, it's unfortunate that they do is all. Cheers.
-
Oct 01, 2003 6:45:33 PM CDT
Nah, the "sound of music" scene in Clones takes the cake for uni
by minderbinder
Hell, how can you even COMPARE Clones with any of the LOTR movies. One is a joke to anyone but fanboys, the other is loved by people across all ages, races, and genders. And to anyone defending clones...cow tick riding...and I Hate Sand. Defend that.
-
Oct 02, 2003 4:48:09 AM CDT
And that's George's problem right there Shepherd, you said it.
by conan_the_humble
If they don't like it, fuck em. His head has gotten so big he doesn't even bother trying anymore. These movies are shit and if they were titled something other than star wars no-one, not even you would be defending them. They make money because they're called star wars. Not because they're great movies from a good director. Cheers.
-
LOTR IS a serious story not a matinee fun ride that SW aims to be. Unfortunately George as I've previously stated missed his shot (Twice) and created to embarassments. Mesa goin home!!! Cheers.
-
Oct 02, 2003 8:09:47 AM CDT
That's exactly what's wrong with the scene, it's a lame, tired c
by minderbinder
And how the hell are we supposed to take a romantic relationship seriously if the director is making lame "jokes" during the setup? It sure doesn't play like it's intentional humor, it comes off as a shitty attempt at a serious dramatic scene. Lucas can do action, but his recent attempts at "humor" are unbelievably painful.
-
Why do I support them? Because I see them as a work in progress. I do not see this as a retread. Others look at them and scream that it's the end of civilization, that these movies are all horrible, and that certain subplots are lame, that the dialogue sucks, the acting's bad, and that the whole thing is just drowned in effects. Well, I agree that the acting isn't Oscar-caliber. But it has its moments. I agree that the writing tends towards the mediocre in terms of dialogue, but I think the plots and the motivations generally work. I agree that certain subplots could have been improved, made better integrated into the flow of things. I agree that the new Star Wars movies are oversaturated with effects. But you know something, that's what I want! I want to feel the warm embrace of another world onscreen, one that seems to extend ofscreen as well, with detail so rich and complex that it seems almost real. That's what I love about LOTRs, too, that sense that there is a history and a world that extends beyond just what gets filmed, that nothing I see is set up merely for the convenience of filming a scene. I want worlds that seem to exist of their own accord. If you want science fiction and fantasy where it's just some secondhand story played out on minimalist soundstage-looking sets, be my guest. I want to be able to explore other world myself, and that is the impulse I think many moviegoers share with Lucas.
-
So AOTC is ONLY liked by 'fanboys', whereas people from every group loves LoTR? And you base this on what? Did Gallup or Zogby do a poll or study that came to this conclusion? That's a typical, ignorant statement that allows for no consideration of the huge audience AOTC attracted.
Considering that AOTC got very positive studio polling results, and an A- from Cinemascore, the best conclusion is that most people who saw it, liked it. Also, $300 million is still excellent at the box office, though admittedly a far cry from what TPM made. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it if there are enough fanboys to push the movie to over 300 million.
AOTC sold over 50 million tickets in the US. If just 30 million of those were unique, then its probably a certainty that it got people from all demographics who are not fanboys. And believe it or not, some of those people no doubt thought very highly of it. Your personal opinion, and that of your friends, family, and of those on these forums,etc are not necessarily representative of the overall population.
-
As I said earlier, I don't think Lucas is clueless, but rather think he has gotten precisely the performances he wanted with the dialogue he obviously wanted. I don't know if that's admirable or arrogant, but I do think it was inconsiderate to the actors and audience. I do think he has convinced himself erroneously that the orignal movies were childrens films, when they were acually universally appealing.
Lucas could havd had his cake and eaten it to. He could have made slightly more serious movies without losing their appeal to children. He could have had better dialogue and better written love scenes, while still staying true to the old-fashioned, serial style he claims to go for. In short, he could have made these movies in a way that they would have received more universally positive reactions from audiences, critics, and the press. But he didn't, and that's why the Prequels will be remade in about 30 yrs, and that's why McGregor/Portman/Christensen will be penalized in film history for things beyond their control. -
Oct 02, 2003 3:02:42 PM CDT
Shepard Wong.... care to address these scenes from the prequels?
by general idea
Like why is it that during the three-way lightsaber fight at the end (which I admit was fantastic) the two other battles going on at the same time are laugh-fests? I mean for the love of god, Jar-Jar practically destroys half the clone army by bumbling around and tripping over himself, while Anakin zips around in the space station like a kid on a bigwheel going "whee!" and just generally annoying everyone. Those 2 scenes were bad enough to ruin the movie even without the endless other crap. As far as AOTC, an improvement but still a weak effort. See DarthGandalf's post.
-
Oct 02, 2003 3:42:56 PM CDT
"done twice in 55 years?" What are you talking about, that bit
by minderbinder
Call me crazy, but if you see something in every third tampon commercial, it's a cliche. All they forgot was the cheesy "record scratch" sound FX, I guess skywalker sound didn't have it in their library...
-
People who bash the SW prequels saying they not as good as the first ones, are abit like Anakin. They started off life as innocent young kids who had a sense of wonder and excitment, wanted to go adventuring, but ended caught up in life. Things aren't going their way, they don't get what they want or demand, so they try to fuck it up for the rest of us.
One topic of which is the better SW or LOTR, well let me say this, I am really looking forward to the ROTK I can't wait. The trailer wasn't the most exciting but it looked good (I don't think any trailer will generate the same excitement that TPM created when I first saw it). Has much as I am looking forward to it, it won't beat the excitement of waiting for EP3. When I watched TFOTR I thought excellent film but I don't know whether I could sit through it again for a while. I only saw it once at the cinema and have watched it twice since on DVD (extended edition). I only saw TTT once at the cinema (I'm waiting for the extended edition. I can wait(no, I havn't missed the T off Can). TTT was boring up until the helm deep battle. Cgi looked great but have another look at Legolas running down that hill with his arrow at the ready in the fight with the orcs as the are travelling to Helms deep. That is pretty fake and looks shit. So far, good films, good action, some not so good acting (Frodo and Sam seem a little to gay with their dialogue, perhaps they are, if so very good acting. I don't think they are meant to be though) Now the SW films, won't go into how many times I've seen the OT but Istill get them out to watch on a fairly regular basis and still enjoy them the same. TPM I saw four times at the cinema and loved it, saw AOTC six times and thought it was awsome. Both these films I have on DVD and are my demonstration films when showing of the DVD system. These films have action and plenty of it, great story, ok the acting isn't going to win any oscars but I don't think its' meant to. The CGI on the clone troopers is fucking fantastic and if you weren't told about them being CGI I bet you would have believed they were men in suits. My last comment is what is wrong with the prequels, We know too much about them before we see them so they don't hit us with that wow factor like they deserve to. I am trying to stay spoiler free for EP3 but I am failing. I am sure if you could keep away from spoilers between now and 2005 Ep3 will take it's place as the greatest Star Wars movie ever. Star Wars is far superior than Lord of the Rings (the films that is, it's just better than than the books). -
You don't know if Luke's gonna win or lose, then he gets his hand chopped off and Vader spares him and announces he's Luke's Father. All of a sudden we get a twist!!! THAT's the thing about the originals, ie: GOOD movie making (no so much Jedi but it's still better than the prequels) we get nothing like that in the prequels. And while Gimli doesn't entirely pay off with the humour, you need humour to break up tense moments, it makes the next one all the more exciting. At least they didn't have to resort to animals farting and people stepping in "poodoo" to try and get a laugh. All the SW prequels needed to do to get a laugh was to be presented to the movie going public... And your attempts at a "dig" against LOTR by stating that's it's nothing but a movie about Wizards and midgets falls pretty flat. It's tired Shepherd you really do need a better argument. Here are we bagging SW for it's poor plot/storyline, terrible dialogue, acting, overindulgence in sfx use and general poor movie making. You say at least it hasn't got Wizards and Midgets (except for Warwick Davis)good argument there. Way to stick it to us. You certainly are keeping the art of trolling alive. Cheers.
-
Oct 03, 2003 10:12:52 AM CDT
"What about Fellowship of the Ring, when one of the hobbits almo
by minderbinder
-
Since you started it, why don't we keep the Springerisms going and build a bridge... Are you honestly, after arguing over the last few days how seriously FOTR takes itself, gonna post here and nitpick about juvenile moments in LOTR movies? For fuck's sake, start bailing dickhead, you've got 1 or 2 moments in LOTR at best, you've 4 hours plus to defend with the SW prequels!!! Cheers.
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