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About That HULK Workprint You All Claim To Be

Hi, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab...

Shame on you. All of you. Not everyone reading this, of course, since most of you are sane, normal, law-abiding citizens. I’m speaking directly to that percentage of Internet users who simply can’t exhibit a modicum of self-control, who feel the need to pirate films at the absolute first second they possibly can, and specifically... I’m speaking to the person who leaked the workprint of Universal’s HULK in the first place. Shame on you.

We live in an age where people love to pretend that issues of copyright law are “grey” and “indistinct.” People play coy about whether or not they’re really pirating material when they trade films over the Internet. People justify their decision to bootleg movies in a million different ways, and I’ve heard every excuse you can come up with. And still I say... shame on you.

This weekend, thanks to BitTorrent users and Kazaa users and IRC traders, HULK has been traded freely. The print that they’re exchanging using their particular P2P software of choice is an unfinished workprint. The effects, one of the things every one of the so-called “reviewers” who wrote in complained about, were not fully rendered. As a result, I’m left looking at a mailbox full of completely useless drivel that’s supposed to pass as “criticism.”

Here are a few of the sterling examples of what we were sent over the weekend:

Right now, even with the CGI not done, I thought that Hulk moved too unrealistically. You can blatently see what is CGI, and it seems that they used some of the crappier (building jumping scenes come to mind) Spiderman motion captures to have Hulk jumping in the desert. The workprint I watched also didn't have many effects of impact, outside of a cloud of dust when Hulk landed. You would think that however many tons he is, jumping miles in both distance and height would kick up more then a speck of dust.

Thanks, “BTreado,” for that. Considering you’re looking at unfinished work, how can you tell me how it looks? And why would you want to break down and watch the film this close to release? Are you that unable to wait? I like how “JackFrost” spent nearly 2,000 words discussing the film before he actually gets around to saying:

I can say a lot more, but I need to see this again, on the big screen to truly appreciate this film.

Uh... yeah. Duh. What blows me away is how Brad Miska, editor of BLOODY-DISGUSTING, would choose to post a review using his real name. Brad... buddy... IT IS ILLEGAL TO DOWNLOAD FILMS. And I can maybe understand the exuberance of someone who saw the workprint and loved it and just wanted to rant and rave about it. But you say the film was “aweful” and “rediculous,” and you chose to piss all over it. For what? Just to brag that you’ve seen an illegally obtained copy that wasn’t done? Congratulations.

Overall, I think I’m just disappointed in so-called fandom. Maybe it’s because I spend all my time working right now to create material which, god willing, you’ll be seeing in a theater next fall or the following summer. In talking with the other people involved, I know exactly how hard we plan to work to make something you haven’t seen before. There’s a huge difference between someone seeing a test screening of something that’s being show to gauge audience reaction (a process that many people blame AICN for corrupting or even ruining) and watching stolen material that is simply not ready to be seen, and not meant to be viewed by the general public.

And to those of you who wrote to say, “Hey, don’t blame me... I’m just watching it,” you need to realize that you’re part of the problem. Films like HULK cost an enormous amount of money, and if the film’s box-office is damaged because of this workprint leak, then it’s going to mean that next time a studio is considering a giant-budget investment on a film that appeals directly to the geek audience, the same audience that seems to be genetically unable to resist breaking the law in order to see something thirty seconds early, then maybe they won’t take that chance. After all... what’s the point?

Now let’s see all the pirates try to justify their position in the talkback. Seriously... let’s see how you explain that what you do isn’t wrong, or you’re not hurting anyone, or the studios have enough money. I look forward to reading how you can tapdance around the basic issue here, which is that you are thieves, and you’re damaging the industry I love with your actions.

So I’ll say it again... and I mean it... shame on you.

"Moriarty" out.





Readers Talkback
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  • June 9, 2003, 8:29 a.m. CST

    Finally First

    by Larry Jay

    Moriarity is right. I've been a comic fan for 40 years and here I am In the golden age of Marvel movies and I HATE that some loser is going to screw it up by piracy. GROW UP!! ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!

  • June 9, 2003, 8:31 a.m. CST

    Well Played M

    by reni

    As much I want to see Hulk, as much as I enjoy the freedom of internet, the speed at which this thing has happened leaves a bit of a bad taste. I feel pretty sorry for Ang Lee. Up to a week, the whole project seemed shrouded in a little mystery. And it seemed to be working nicely for Universal and everyone... this is a bit of a shame, even by my standards which are pretty weak sometimes.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:33 a.m. CST

    Here is how I justify it...

    by silentjay

    fat, meaty fines. And if you don't think there is tons of legislation in the works to prevent and punish those who do swipe material...keep testing the waters and find out. Good stand evil one, its a tough battle.

  • Me for one!!!!!!!!!

  • June 9, 2003, 8:37 a.m. CST

    pre release copies

    by captainmonkey

    I seem to remember a certain harry raving last year about watching an early copy of Attack of the Clones. Practice what you preach man.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:37 a.m. CST

    Isn't this the same site that reviewed AOTC bootleg?

    by Gheorghe Zamfir

    I mean hell, if that review served as anything it was a giant shout to the internet that it was out there for us to get before the movie's release. And I'm sure if I go through the archives I'll find a lot more bootleg reviews, especially on the foreign stuff, though I'm sure that's all justified one way or another too.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:38 a.m. CST

    woo-har

    by wreckbless

    Bickitty bickitty BAM!

  • June 9, 2003, 8:39 a.m. CST

    You tell them mother fuckers!

    by Mr_T_Rulez

    Fucking theives! Get your fucking mitts off of pirated films and get your bitch-asses into a fucking theatre and buy some overpriced concessions and listen to the fucking baby crying in back of you like the rest of us! I am sure that you can save some money by not buying a replica Khan wig from Comic-Con and go to a fucking movie once in a fucking while! And what fun is it to watch a film on your PC? Aside from the pixilating and the canned sound, the films are way too tiny to appreciate and the words "DO NOT DISTRIBUTE" cover half of the screen! How can you judge a film based on this kind of viewing? My friend tried to get me to watch some of his pirated films, but I have to say that I value film way too much to participate in this kind of blatant selfishness and greed. BUY A FUCKING TICKET! Fucking turd-brains! Oh yeah ... The Hulk jumps the shark while he has a beer and cheats on his wife because he is the world's sexiest tomboy beanpole and numerous fanboys jack off to his likeness. Fucking fags!

  • June 9, 2003, 8:42 a.m. CST

    You've got a point.

    by Psyclops

    This bootlegging is getting out of control. What's the big deal with waiting a few weeks until the film is released? Also, why would anyone want to see a movie like this on a fucking computer screen and not in a giant theater with a thundering sound system? Don't ruin the experience of watching this the way it was meant to be seen.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:44 a.m. CST

    A lot of people bootleg films because

    by Ribbons

    they want to have something that the majority of the population doesn't. As for those who actually want to bust their cherry on this piece of shit work print, what the hell are you thinking?

  • June 9, 2003, 8:49 a.m. CST

    Piracy? What?

    by niai

    The majority of the moving going public won't give a shit if its faithful to the comic or not. Does piracy actually reduce ticket sales? Or is it a poor economy that does that? Or maybe the poor economy is a result of piracy? Maybe the MPAA can influence governments in ways that individuals cannot. If you make something, expect someone to pirate it, and don't expect to ever be able to stop it without installing digital rights management into peoples brains at birth. All my opinions are copied.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:50 a.m. CST

    You're being too sensitive about copyright laws.

    by Human Tornado

    I've never heard of p2p screwing box office income for anyone. It's like a free sample: you check it out on the net to see if it's any good. If it is, you'll pay full admission price - I know I will, and you will too. If it's not, it deserves to flop and die a miserable death. AICN single-handedly destroyed Batman and Robin (of course they deserved it...), and there was no P2P at the time (well, there WAS, but not like today). AICN reviewed bootleg copies of "Blair Witch Project" and "AOTC" - and look how big box office bombs they were... I say "if it's digital, it's free".

  • June 9, 2003, 8:52 a.m. CST

    Justify? Copyright is just plain wrong, there is no need for jus

    by EvilNight

    Come on, Mori. You're in a position to see exactly the kind of damage and creativity-killing effects that copyright has on anyone who hasn't got the deep pockets. It's a tool to control and dominate, nothing more. Look at Disney, I rest my case. The Renaissance happened without copyright, so don't come on pretending like we need it. Perhaps in its original, constitutional form, where 5 years was the MAXIMUM time it offered protection, it might have been a law worth having around. Perhaps if it protected the creator of the work, rather than the big media licensee of the work, it would be worth having around. The middle men are going away. There will be artists, and consumers, and that's it. 43 million people use P2P software. Go ahead and tell me we need to jail 1/6 of the American population. This is like prohibition, we've got an unpopular law, and God himself couldn't enforce it. I understand and agree with the need to compensate artists for their work, however I completely disagree with all of the current business models because the scum sucking talentless hacks playing the middle men are getting 95% of the pie. I'd rather rip my music off the net and send the artist a check for $20 than buy something from any record label. To hell with all of them. We posess the means to eliminate cultural scarcity (books, movies, music, you name it) thanks to computers. I don't think it's right to introduce artificial scarcity into that kind of system. If it means that musicians like Bowie and Madonna can no longer make 100s of millions of dollars, so be it. It'll also mean that any artist with talent can make a living, and frankly artists doing things for the money are doing it for the wrong reason anyway. You know the difference between a movie made for quick money and a movie made by someone who acutally gives a damn about making some real art. Cut out copyright and the real artists will come out on top. Every time.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:57 a.m. CST

    BAMF

    by MaulRat

    For years I have had to listen to fan-boy fucks who claim to have the latest and greatest in home computing technology because they're lacking in any REAL manhood and use that as a benchmark tell me that "Hey I downloaded 'X men 2' last night" or... "Matrix reloaded isn't even in the cinemas yet.. but guess who has it on VCD??? eh?.." and then bitch about the quality of it.. Go to the movies, pay your 8 bucks in change, get your pack of reeses pieces (or whatever the fuck blows your skirt up) and you'll notice the difference and it will be worth the price of admission... fuuuck me... it sounds alot like the same rant I hear time and time again from fanboys waxing about George Lucas and his stubborn refusal to release the original star wars movies on DVD as opposed to the re-release 'special editions'... saying they'll just get the originals on VCD.. saying that they're old VHS tapes will do... saying they'll boycott them DVDs.... christ in a cartoon... 2 things... 1) I think Young george is doing quite well without your $22 dollar per flick donation thank you very much boycotting wont do DICK, apart from YOU missing out on probably THE most anticipated DVD release ever short of the Indiana Jones movies.. and 2) personally I couldn't give a fuck if greedo shoots first... I want DTS.. I want Crystal clear picture and I WANT TIEFIGHTERS screaming past my fucking ears and god knows what speed, and I want an end to pre-release pirates... my work here is done.. ***** BAMF ! *****

  • June 9, 2003, 9 a.m. CST

    Right or wrong, you can't stop it.

    by earthworm

    Piracy has always been there, and always will be, its just massively more available to the average geek through P2P. BUT, if the film is good enough, I can't think of anyone who WOULDN'T go and see it again at the cinema. If it's crap, it doesn't deserve to do well anyway. I can't justify it, anymore than I can justify speeding or taking drugs both of which have a FAR higher social and financial cost than piracy. And on occasion I do all three. For the record, yesterday I downloaded some of the new Radiohead stuff, as a result I'm off to buy the album. I also spent four hours downloading Hulk, and it turned out to be Moonlight fucking Mile. Either way, Hulk's still got my fiver when it does come out.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:02 a.m. CST

    Artists deserve to be compensated, plain and simple.

    by Nordling

    I think the marketplace is the one who should decide whether or not an artist's work has any value by PURCHASING their work. If the artist's work doesn't get bought, then there's no question, is there? EvilNight, I understand where you're coming from, but this is about a work that hadn't even been released yet. The marketplace should decide the value, and the artists deserve to make a profit off their art, if people think their art has value. And art has more value than people realize. I'd hate to live in a world where artists didn't make their art because frankly, they couldn't afford to make it.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:03 a.m. CST

    Bothered

    by KING HEROD

    Welcome to the 21st Century Moriarty. The ability to download a movie in a couple of minutes is just a fact of life these days. And I'd save my breath appealing to the better nature of movie fans. What? You think people are going to ignore FREE STUFF, to safeguard the profits of the entertainment industry? Not the world I live in matey. And don't give me any of that 'we all suffer in the long run' malarkey. They use that argument to try & stop people chopping down rainforests or driving Sports Utilities, and that doesn't seem to be working. The film industry need to get with the programme, acknowledge a problem that isn't ever going to go away and start to deal with it the one way they can. Better security and universal release dates.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:08 a.m. CST

    Usually Have Nothing Against File Trading, But......

    by TheEwokThatDied

    The main difference, and it is important for more than one reason ( although the validity of those reasons is suspect ) between the advanced copy of AOTC that Harry saw and the trading of the Hulk is: The AOTC copy was one person watching one advance copy. Now that difference breaks down into factual and perception. Factually, there is a immeasurable difference between 2 geeks watching an advance copy of a film and many thousands watching an advanced copy, simple math, 2 vs thousands. Now, that in it's self is not the problem. And, in my opinion, I do not believe that all of these people seeing the film will hurt more than 1-5% of it's opening business. Face it, 99-95% of the people that would have seen it opening weekend without the leak are STILL going to see it. Only a handful of fringe fence sitters may be turned off by reading some random knock against the condition of the CGI. ( Although, if a knock against the CGI was enough to scare people away, NO ONE would be seeing the Hulk ). Anyhow, the real, severe problem with the situation is that unless the film meets or goes over 100% of the expectations the suits at the studio have for it's box office, they will be able to fall back and say, "Well, ya know, the film's performance was a disappointment because the key demographic for this type of movie was able to see it one week early on their computers. We should redirect our focus and make more movies like "The Devine Secrets Of The Ya-Ya Sisterhood. No 50ish frumpy house wives pining for their youth ever down load movies." So.....there is the chance for us to get more crap because the studio has an easy out for the film........so.....because of that problem of incorrect perception - excuse providing to the studios I am against pre-release trading. Yub Yub

  • June 9, 2003, 9:10 a.m. CST

    Moriarity, you're two-faced...

    by Angelus Rex

    Aren't you the one who got the UNPRODUCED AND UNRELEASED screenplay for SUPERMAN and opined how CRAPPY this movie will be before it's even made? You failed to take responsibility for the backlash of your review? You rant about people voicing an opinion about a rough-cut pirated download of an unfinished movie, then you should BE ASHAMED of yourself for what you did to the SUPERMAN screenplay. When you start casting stones, you better be sure there isn't someone standing above you ready to unload a bag full of them on your head, idiot.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:10 a.m. CST

    Point of Legal Fact

    by harsten

    Whatever your position on downloading copyrighted materials without permission, you have to observe a point of legal fact, Moriarty. Doing this is a copyright violation. Not theft. Theft is, legally, larceny, and this is NOT theft. The MPAA would like everyone to believe it is, but it is, in legal fact, not. So, technically, you can't call people who do this thieves. Because, legally, they're not. They're copyright violators. Different thing. Now a work print - if someone released it who was not authorized, then THEY are guilty of larceny (removal of property in part or whole). It's not illegal to look at stolen property. Also, just because some action that a person takes devalues a product that you own does not necessarily make it illegal, or even immoral. If you make a car, and I point out correctly that it's a piece a crap and then you can't sell any cars... well... And even if I based that determination on an analysis of the CAD drawings of your car that were shown to me by someone who was not authorized to have them, well, that's still not illegal. You may not like it, but don't call it something it isn't. Not theft. Copyright violation. Get it right.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:11 a.m. CST

    get a clue, evilnight

    by simon72

    "The Renaissance happened without copyright". WTF? Quick history lesson: photocopying, file-swapping, and any other method of quickly and easily duplicating and distributing illegal copies of someone else's work didn't exist in the 15th century, fuckwit. And as for your suggestion that we get strike from the lawbooks any "unpopular" law - do you really need me to point out the holes in that one?

  • June 9, 2003, 9:14 a.m. CST

    Harry's AOTC review

    by slayage

    Next time, before you spew venom at everyone else, justify your own use of piracy in maintaining this site and posting those early reviews. The word "hypocrisy" doesn't begin to cover this.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:14 a.m. CST

    Well Said Man

    by Dmann

    Well, Mori said it at the end. The next time someone wants to make a big budget geek film. We have to realize, us nerdy ass movie geeks are kings right now, we pushed teeny boppers out of the way, fisted the ass talking comic, and showed that our allmighty dollar is king. Why is this? I think its because we do silly, passionate things like lining up in costumes for opening midnight showings of movies. We spend our hard earned dollars (not everyone gets to make a living selling his geek ideas) on things like Hulk Hands, super fancy DVD's of movies we already own, soundtrack and score CD's, action figures, Lego sets, and so on and so forth. If pirating makes the lucrative geek dollar smaller, we lose our edge, the big budget spectacles wont cater to us, and marvel movies will fade away, leaving us with a worthless pile of foil embossed rob liefeld comics to read. What i am saying is.....piracy is bad....mmmkay (unless it involves some sexy chick who eats beans with a pole)

  • June 9, 2003, 9:14 a.m. CST

    why do we do it

    by redeye2000

    Dear Moriaty, as a True Movie pirate myself. I understand the problem very well, but please dont forget that in the first place it is the problem of the movie companies themselfs. please let me explain this for instance I live in europe. movies are played here most of the times like 3 till 6 months later. do I want to wait like so many months before I can actually watch the movie everybody in the usa is talking about like on in aint it cool news? No I dont want to wait that long because I am a movie geek myself too. Finding Nemo will play in my country around november!!!! can you believe that! November! This is ofcourse unbelievble! so how do I satisfy my desire. yes with pirate copies! ofcourse some movies like Matrix Reloaded or X-men 2 I watch in theatre because they had an world wide release. so I was very happy to see that in theatre and I could watch it at the same date as everyone. so a movie company can have my money for the ticket! but if they start using tricks like disney does with their movies then I am forced to do watch a pirate copy, because I will not wait just because Disney likes that. It Even happens that movies from the USA get even out on DVD while the movie itself still has to to turn up at the movie theatre in my country! this is just unbearable! Also the region codes on all the dvds is very bad. why is it not allowed we can import USA DVDS? why the protections? I think movies are what we call culture exhange. but movie companies rather prefer the berlin wall style of mentality. also not every pirate is the same. a good pirate I think is how I explained above. a bad pirate is someone who sells copied dvds by mail or internet like ebay. those fookers should be arrested and thrown into jail! about the hulkworkprint. as a release it just kick ass that someone was able to do it. and I can understand the kick it gives to release a movie that early, but those losers that review a workprint are really stupid! they just should be banned. they really give us a bad name. in my book , a movie pirate just like to watch a movie same time as everyone should be able too and keep that movie in his own collection because he is a collector as well. so no hiring or selling. so if you see me as a bad person because I am a pirate, then go ahead. track me down, send the FBI or who else is in charge, I dont care. if that is what it takes to fight the system I will!

  • June 9, 2003, 9:16 a.m. CST

    The problem with justifying criminal action ...

    by Halski

    I can totally sympathize with people who criticize a law as unenforceable; I'll soon be in law school where intellectual property may be the hottest topic around. I can't say where I stand on the issues exactly (it's a hot topic at law school BECAUSE it's so undefined as of yet), but I can say that you have no right bemoaning criminal prosecution if you knowingly break the law. That's called civil protest. If you want to pirate movies and sit in jail to prove a point, I have all respect for you. That's how it's been done before with varying degrees of success. If you want to pirate movies, hope the feds don't bust you, and then whine that people (like yourselves) just can't control themselves and will always pirate movies ... well, let's say my respect lessons. If you want to point out the flaws in the legal system, present your case before the public in whatever forums are available to you, and lobby to get the law changed, then you've picked what is probably the most sensical (and effective) choice ... This hinges on you resepcting that law in the meantime, however, because who are you to criticize the legal system after you've already deemed it irrelevant to the way you live your life? In short, why even bother fixing the system if you've decided the system doesn't apply to you?

  • June 9, 2003, 9:17 a.m. CST

    Harry's right, you know

    by Lance Turk

    What if some guy came up to you and showed you a workprint of Attack of the Clones 3 months before release? Would you post a review on that? Oh wait a second...

  • June 9, 2003, 9:17 a.m. CST

    Well said, Angelus . . .

    by slayage

    Idiocy being the key word. Entire lack of logic. No thought whatsoever. I think your little rant, Moriarty, should be removed before you embarrass yourself more. Pitiful. Two-faced, pitiful nonsense.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:18 a.m. CST

    The Cold Equations, and you.

    by Lobanhaki

    Thank you Moriarty for bringing that point up. Y'all know what an economy is, right? Supply and Demand. Here is the problem. If people get the wrong ideas about a print in progress, well, then, what have is a problem, because that is reducing demand for the putative film, while at the same time, a more deserving, more refined, and and more tightly constructed film is being released. We are reducing the demand for good work, because we are assuming things about a workprint, and in another sense, the sense of having stolen the movie and taken a look at it, we have stolen a first experience that can't be had again, and which will never show up in the coffers of those executives who are going to determine every damn big budget movie we're going to see, executives, who by the way tend not to have much to do with actual filmmaking. They just tick off the profits and go make something that makes a damn profit. I don't want to hear all this bullshit about how we don't need to be feeding the corporate greed. It's hard not to nowadays, not without living in a shack in the woods. But what can do is watch finished products in the theatre, get our first time experience in the closest we can get to an ideal environment, and then judge what we've seen. Now, of course, that costs money, and takes some of the control out of our hands, but then again- Whoa, what if we already have control? I mean, let's put it this way: The control we fight right now is the first weekend. That all important "number one movie in America" weekend. It allows them to dump shit on the market, because we'll jump on it on account of marketing, and not because we've heard it's good. Well, duh. My advice to all you people is this: Go see the movie in it's final form, not now, Not on the first weekend, but on the second. Find out what the word of mouth is. Then, if the movie works for you, go tell your friends that it's good. It use to be that films were left in the theaters for longer, and that movies succeed if audience returned on a regular basis. Some of the biggest smashes in recent history have worked that way. Sixth Sense, Titanic, Saving Private Ryan- both are example of movies that didn't open too big, but when they got into their next weeks, the grosses stayed stable, and did so over a long period of time. These two movies show the power of the audience to determine what kind of films can get made. It also shows that what an audience will like is not necessarily the same old crap that they frontload on us. Graphic war-picture. Supernatural thriller with no effects. big budget chick-flick. So, for once, let us wait! Because if we wait, we can't be rushed into a bad choice. And if you wait, and pay, you can give them a true picture of what you want, and you yourself will be able to pay for another ticket for the stuff that entertained you, and by doing that you will able to send a message to these folks who only read the grosses- THIS IS WHAT WE WANT.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:18 a.m. CST

    Some thoughts..

    by Sith42

    Here's two comparisons that might put things into perspective for you all... 1) If I could steal your wallet and get away with it, I absolutely would. But, I know it's wrong and if I got busted, I wouldn't bitch. That's what I get..for stealing.... For those who think it's ok cause you buy some tickets/dvds on some films and let the bad stuff fail.. 2) I've had peanuts before. I have even bought them out of the bulk bin in the supermarket. I sometimes eat them out of the bulk bin in the supermarket. I will likely even buy them again. So, yesterday, when I filled my pockets full of peanuts, it was perfectly okay... The main point is, the whole p2p scene is anarchy at the moment, and if you're going to engage in it, announcing it publically is the absolute stupidest thing you can do.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:19 a.m. CST

    Shame on you Mori.

    by TheMoly

    Dear God! What melodrama! I keep waiting for Mori to fall to his/her knees and weep like a woman. We're the problem? Wrong. What we do is exploit loopholes in society, something that has happened since time immemorial. The problem is that the industry cannot keep the product safe. The fact that these prints find their way onto the net so quick is a stunning indictment of the movie industry itself. If they cannot keep the product safe why should we think "oh no, this will be bad for the movie industry?" Look, Mori, you seem to be a confused guy/gal. Imagine this scene... You're walking past a cash machine and suddenly a one hundred dollar bill flops out of it. What do you do? You pick it up and put it in your pocket. No thought. It's automatic. You see a free one hundred dollar bill and you take it. It's the banks fault for having a faulty cash machine, right? Do you see what I'm saying? Yes, we can all live in your utopian kif heaven where there are no "baddies", we watch Mortal Kombat movies all day and everyone helps one another. Or we can travel back to reality. And isn't there a review of an unfinished film on this website today? Didn't this very website review a bootleg Attack of the Clones? Mate, when you go on one of your high horsed crusades make sure you haven't left you zipper down. Who do you think you are? Do you think you are some sort of moral bastion fighting against the hordes of mindless Internet savages? We are the people who keep the website alive. You are the people, who among others have stoked the appetite for the

  • June 9, 2003, 9:19 a.m. CST

    thankyou..i now realise the folly of my ways

    by audio vandal

    ..i smoked before i was legal age, and i drank, and i had sex, and i watched porn..and now i just realised i did the worst of all..i downloaded a movie before it came out on the cinema !!! Oh please forgive me !! Seriously, theres no way i feel sorry for big studios , if they wanna throw millions away making movies its not my problem, and if this material becomes available in the public domain, and i wanna check it out..who gives a fuck ? Same way ill read the script reviews on this site, which im sure are obtained legally...and im sure we can all find some depraved crazy shit on the net..in fact im sure that the internet police have a lot more to worry about than the hulk movie coming online..if i wanna spoil the movie for myself i will..if i dont..ill turn off my pc !

  • June 9, 2003, 9:21 a.m. CST

    Incidentally,

    by slayage

    I did NOT download this film, mostly because I have no interest in seeing it at all, or in watching movies on my computer screen. Your implying that everyone who does is "insane," however, makes me want to download the bloody thing now. I have no respect for you. Now hurry up and finish that movie so we can download it already.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Give me a break

    by stever1

    The vast majority of people downloading this are internet geeks. The vast majority of these geeks are gonna buy tickets for the first showing, they're gonna buy tickets to see it again on the weekend (if it rocks), they're gonna buy the DVD the first day it hits Wal-Mart, and they're gonna buy the super-special Christmas release with the added 15 seconds of Eric Bana looking anguished that was cut for artistic reasons. No one is losing money because of this. My grandma won't go to the theater to see this anyway. Next you're gonna tell me that I shouldn't be sneaking candy and soda into the theater because I'm depriving a theater owner of his due...

  • There is nothing wrong with wanting to see the movie early. Especially an unfinished product, because chances are huge that everyone that downloads it will still go see it in theatres. As much as I'd like free passes to every major movie months before they come out, like you get, rips are my only chance for a sneak peek. I still go see the movies I enjoy in theatres, and the ones I don't enjoy don't deserve my cash anyway. It's like going into a movie, hating it, and demanding a refund... Which is allowable at nearly all movie theatres. That's exactly what I do with bad movies, I just cut out the theatre and paying for it in the first place. The good movies, I do pay for.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:31 a.m. CST

    hey, redeye 2000...

    by simon72

    So the fact that a studio doesn't go to the huge expense of ensuring that every geek in every country on the planet can see a movie at the exact same second "forces" you to watch a pirate copy of a work print? You poor baby. You are being obliged, against your will, to engage in a criminal activity so that you can watch a cartoon about fish now rather than in a few months time? Get a fucking grip. And as for Dmann: "We have to realize, us nerdy ass movie geeks are kings right now". Dream on, loser.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:31 a.m. CST

    So it's okay to review stolen scripts (Superman) but not bootleg

    by the G-man

    Mori, I was one of the people who defended you when you were getting blasted by WB for leaking the stolen Superman script (and, unless you were given it by Jon Peters I would say it was stolen). And now you do this? I'm sorry, but half the "scoops" on this site have come from either purloined scripts, bootleg videos or wildfeed tv shows. How is this different? Because Avi Arad is calling the shots here now?

  • June 9, 2003, 9:34 a.m. CST

    amazing

    by rumbloid

    Ok, so I didn't work on the Hulk, but I've worked on movies equally big...and dozens much smaller...and it always staggers me how people think they can just simply 'justify' not paying for something. File sharing IS NOT the equivalent of a mate lending you a CD so you can see if it's good or not. Because there's no 'mate' in it. Let's face it, do you give a SHIT about who you're downloading from??? NO, of course you don't, you're just getting it for free when you should be paying the artists (and yes, although the studio might make millions, those millions are going to get ploughed back into making more films, and end up in the pockets of thousands of people who have to make a living making this stuff for you.....)...if it hasn't been released where you are yet...well, fuck you, you can wait. Say if a certain food or drink product 'hadn't been released yet'...that WOULDN'T give you the right to go to another country (effectively what you're doing, digitally speaking, when you use a file sharing service) and steal it. Just to try it...yeah right...try telling that to the judge in court, see whether he lets you off the theft charge....and laying claim to some kind of moral justification for your crimes is just...so stupid. Pea-brained. The Renaissance happened without copyright huh???? I WOULD LIKE TO FUCKING KNOW HOW THE BLOODY HELL THE ROOF OF THE SISTINE CHAPEL COULD HAVE BEEN COPIED!!!! It happened without copyright because the technology to fuck the artists over didn't exist, and artists were SUBSIDISED by wealthy patrons in those days. They weren't worried about admission charges....they made a living that was guaranteed. They could feed their kids. AND THEY WERE ALLOWED TO FUCKING FINISH THEIR WORK BEFORE IT WAS JUDGED! At least, if you're going to try to fuck us out of what little money one can make in this business, please let us finish so we can actually have something we're proud of out there, whether you like it you don't. HOW MUCH IS THAT TO ASK? All the arguments for file-sharing above...are so fucking specious and unintelligent, it's unbelievable...if you've tried to justify it above, you're a worthless piece of thieving shit, and you know it. Period. Don't make it worse by trying to pretend otherwise. The entire filmmaking community thinks you're a fool.....so why open your mouth and prove it????? But my biggest beef is reviewing something before the artists are done with it.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:36 a.m. CST

    amazing

    by rumbloid

    Ok, so I didn't work on the Hulk, but I've worked on movies equally big...and dozens much smaller...and it always staggers me how people think they can just simply 'justify' not paying for something. File sharing IS NOT the equivalent of a mate lending you a CD so you can see if it's good or not. Because there's no 'mate' in it. Let's face it, do you give a SHIT about who you're downloading from??? NO, of course you don't, you're just getting it for free when you should be paying the artists (and yes, although the studio might make millions, those millions are going to get ploughed back into making more films, and end up in the pockets of thousands of people who have to make a living making this stuff for you.....)...if it hasn't been released where you are yet...well, fuck you, you can wait. Say if a certain food or drink product 'hadn't been released yet'...that WOULDN'T give you the right to go to another country (effectively what you're doing, digitally speaking, when you use a file sharing service) and steal it. Just to try it...yeah right...try telling that to the judge in court, see whether he lets you off the theft charge....and laying claim to some kind of moral justification for your crimes is just...so stupid. Pea-brained. The Renaissance happened without copyright huh???? I WOULD LIKE TO FUCKING KNOW HOW THE BLOODY HELL THE ROOF OF THE SISTINE CHAPEL COULD HAVE BEEN COPIED!!!! It happened without copyright because the technology to fuck the artists over didn't exist, and artists were SUBSIDISED by wealthy patrons in those days. They weren't worried about admission charges....they made a living that was guaranteed. They could feed their kids. AND THEY WERE ALLOWED TO FUCKING FINISH THEIR WORK BEFORE IT WAS JUDGED! At least, if you're going to try to fuck us out of what little money one can make in this business, please let us finish so we can actually have something we're proud of out there, whether you like it you don't. HOW MUCH IS THAT TO ASK? All the arguments for file-sharing above...are so fucking specious and unintelligent, it's unbelievable...if you've tried to justify it above, you're a worthless piece of thieving shit, and you know it. Period. Don't make it worse by trying to pretend otherwise. The entire filmmaking community thinks you're a fool.....so why open your mouth and prove it?????

  • June 9, 2003, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Kettle-pot-black...

    by Zionere

    I've never had the urge to post anything on Talkback, but I sure do now. I've always respected this website and its reviews, previews, etc. even when I did not agree with the opinions of the writers. But to go on a rant like this when AICN was all too proud to post a review of "Attack of the Clones" a good three months before it was released... SHAME ON YOU, MORIARTY! Get off your high horse, or put your money where your mouth is at and admit that AICN was guilty of the exact same things you so denounce. How do you justify that? Or will you do the obvious thing and not address this issue at all? To quote Ken Takakura:"Put it up or shut it up!"

  • June 9, 2003, 9:42 a.m. CST

    ah crap...

    by rumbloid

    double clicked. Sorry. Happens when you're angry.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:49 a.m. CST

    One of those rare times where both parties are Right

    by Fearsme

    Truth be told, Mori is right. Everyone pirating these movies is contributing to the eroding sense of ownership in modern media. At the same time, this site is a key factor into why those standards have eroded. Look at all the responses you got about the Hulk Workprint. Obviously, all these people thought it was perfectly cool to send you a review of this early film. The problem is Mori is that there are no rules anymore, and the rules that are established are established AFTER an incident like this happens. Using an extreme analogy here, its like when Princess Di was killed. Everyone knew Papparazzi were a plague, but it wasnt until people thought they might have contributed to someone's death that people really got pissed. You drew a line in the sand. Do yourself a favor, do a follow up article on the very guidelines youd like people who contribute to this site to follow. Might help in the long run.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:53 a.m. CST

    One of those rare times where both parties are Right

    by Fearsme

    Truth be told, Mori is right. Everyone pirating these movies is contributing to the eroding sense of ownership in modern media. At the same time, this site is a key factor into why those standards have eroded. Look at all the responses you got about the Hulk Workprint. Obviously, all these people thought it was perfectly cool to send you a review of this early film. The problem is Mori is that there are no rules anymore, and the rules that are established are established AFTER an incident like this happens. Using an extreme analogy here, its like when Princess Di was killed. Everyone knew Papparazzi were a plague, but it wasnt until people thought they might have contributed to someone's death that people really got pissed. You drew a line in the sand. Do yourself a favor, do a follow up article on the very guidelines youd like people who contribute to this site to follow. Might help in the long run.

  • Who exactly are you to judge the actions of others when the operator of you very own website openly confesses to watching bootlegs? (SWII:AOTC comes to mind). Now it is common knowledge that such bootlegs are illegal and do not represent the artistic integrity of the final product, visually, acoustically or stylistically, but that in no way makes you the moral arbiter on what other individuals should be acting out as it is not your responsibility to undermine the actions of those who commit similar actions to those committed by moderators of the site which claims to be ethically irreproachable and legally untenable. Oh and I don't anyone who's writing a script for a film such as Mortal Kombat 3 can claim to be creating anything that will be pirated/bootlegged off a cinema as I think if there's any justice in this world, that's a straight-to-video.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:54 a.m. CST

    The ever-present issue of piracy is an important issue, but it's

    by CoolDan989

    Like Moriarty said before, a lot of us are law-abiding citizens, and the ulterior motive of the people that reviewed The Hulk via this Hulk download was to write reviews to encourage everyone to go see the movie in theaters, and I doubt many people who wrote in to Moriarty encouraged people to download the movie for themselves. There aren't a lot of Hulk reviews out there, and a lot of people feel like they should be providing these reviews if they have the ability to do so. And if seeing a movie in advance is illegal, what's the point of test screenings? Why are they legal? Isn't THAT cutting into box office profits, too? And while it's true that leaked movies can reduce box office profits that studios take in, it's not the biggest tragedy. Because movie studios have screwed us in the past and showed their greedy, primitive ways. I mean, take what's going on Hollywood today! Movie studios are competing over movie release dates like lions over a hunk of meat! Movie studios are remaking movies that should be left the hell alone! Movie studios are double-dipping, even triple-dipping DVDs just to shamelessly promote movies, get more money and rip off loyal consumers in the process! Movie studios are refusing to release some of the best movies out there on DVD! Movie studios are shamelessly pumping out awards publicity! THESE are the so-called victims of piracy? I think it would be more accurate to say these are the victims of greed. Of corruption. Of competition. Of ignorance. And in the days of today, the box office is still smoking hot with one hit after another, and somehow it's just not enough for the movie studios anymore. I agree that piracy is a problem, but it's not an urgent, catastrophic, shameful problem. In the battle between the entertainment industry and piracy, there are no winners, and there are no losers. Each side is equally guilty as charged, in their own respective ways.

  • June 9, 2003, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Well fucking said

    by spookymulder

    Funny how you already have people hating on you, calling you a two face and what not. I have to say that I agree with you whole heartedly. Don't take no guff from these fuckin' swine. The same kind of pussy ass, wet rag bitches that are giving you shit are the exact same people that Ben Affleck's (or B. Lo, if you prefer) character in "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back" was referring to. Get a life and own up, you buncha dicks. It's too bad most of you can't hold your wads long enough to see it in theaters before switching over from your porn downloading to download an unfinished copy of an event pic, just so you can send in a review to a fan website! If you need to be heard so bad, talk to your guidance counselors or your shrink. Just the thought of this being the first thing I read this morning is pissing me the fuck off. Flame me if you want but just know I'll be fucking your mothers in the meantime!

  • June 9, 2003, 10:07 a.m. CST

    that's not the point....THAT'S NOT THE GODDAMN POINT!

    by rumbloid

    OK, REALITY check...some of you seem to think the issue here is whether M. should be so damning of something he perhaps indulges in himself....forget the script review of AOTC. Forget all that. Sure, the guy's on a dubious moral high horse...but there's other people who'd have PERFECT justification to hop onto that horse with him and you couldn't point the finger at.....like Ang Lee for example. Or anybody who's seen their work pirated. STOP clouding the issue by pointing fingers and realise that if you've seen this film, you're a jerkwad loser. Forget Moriarty. Fuck him. If he wants to do it, that's his choice. It doesn't actually make him WRONG to criticize what's going on, just hypocritical. That's NOTHING to do with what's at issue here. I guarantee that of the above posters, NONE of you have had your work mass-pirated. When it does, IF it does (and most of the naysayers sound pretty unintelligent, so I'm not up for it being too likely)... you'll know how it feels. It's gutting beyond words. And, it's never happened to a project I've worked on when it's been still a work-in-progress. Test screenings etc...that's OK. The filmmakers have decided that they want to test the water and see if they can improve on what they've got. Review that by all means...if you invite the public to a screening, that's fair game, even though the studios will try to stop it...and a lot of the time, the bootlegs that get reviewed on this site are...most likely intentional. The lengths that the studios go to protect this stuff are extraordinary - anyone who gets a print of the film has 'property of XXXXXXXX, DO NOT COPY - print for XXX (your initials)' emblazoned over their picture...and copies without that are rare, dangerous things...

  • June 9, 2003, 10:12 a.m. CST

    M fears that the blame will fall on AICN

    by mcarbone

    Moriarty, you probably wouldn't have written this piece had all of the reviews of the Hulk bootleg been positive. What I think scares you is that the reviews were so negative that, as with B&R, AICN might be blamed for the box office failure I'm pretty sure Hulk will be at this point. I don't think it will be a big financial loss - it'll probably make a profit w/ world box office and DVD sales - but I'm pretty sure that it won't be a summer box office smash a la X-men or Spiderman. Why? For one, the ad campaign has been abysmal (even Ang Lee has said that he hasn't been a fan of it). Second, Hulk might be too 'smart' for mainstream audiences, being more of a character study than an action-packed comic book film. But don't worry, Moriarty, all of this will happen regardless of the internet piracy of the working print. The studio can chew out AICN all they want, but they are to blame for the poor marketing.

  • June 9, 2003, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Hulk

    by el tipo suave

    Workprint or not, it's the same story overall, nothing is going to change that part. Maybe the special effects. So the bottom line is the story is going to be the same and that's what matters. What ever unfinished work was seen was just a few minutes long and that alone is not going to affect the story. The story itself is complete period!!!!!!!!!!

  • June 9, 2003, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Hmmm....

    by kintar0

    Well, I DO remember Harry putting up his own "review" of AOTC from a "work print" some guy showed him in a hotel room. Why was that okay and random people reviewing Hulk from a downloaded workprint not okay? Another thing: when was the last time Harry or any of the reviewers on this site PAID regular admission for a film they reviewed? I could be wrong, but don't all of you see films for free all the time? If so, you've become the MEDIA and surpassed the "fanyboy" status. I would DEFINITELY watch this downloaded version of the Hulk. And I will still PAY to the Hulk maybe three, four times in the theatre. Just like Matrix Reloaded. I've seen it five times in the theatre. AND I downloaded it. AND I will buy it on DVD. So, how exactly am I hurting the film industry?

  • June 9, 2003, 10:14 a.m. CST

    Moriarty's Weapons of Mass Destruction

    by darthferris

    How odd that with ticket sales at record highs, films earning 90 million their first weekend, and DVD sales at untold levels, that Moriarty has taken up the films industry's battle cry of "piracy is killing us." First of all, you know why I bought I bootleg copy of "Battle Royale"? Because I don't run a website that charges $2000 a day for advertising, and so I can't afford a multi-region DVD player, plus I don't live in a city that shows cool foreign flicks around the corner at the multiplex. You run a site whose entire basis is unauthorized information and reviews of films; whoever brought up the AOTC review was dead on. Not all of us get invited to expense paid premieres in Aspen, or get to see free "media only" screenings weeks before a film comes out. Maybe that's a privlege you may now take for granted because you work for Ain't It Cool, but most of us don't get to rub shoulders with Robert Rodriguez whenever he comes to town. If I have the chance to see a movie before it comes out, maybe I'll download it, but I'll still go see it in a theatre. Tell you what, run a poll right now: who downloaded "The Matrix: Reloaded" and didn't go see it in the theatre? No doubt, you'll have one or two people, but most people want to go see it on a huge THX-certified screen with an awesome sound system. I saw "Rules of Attraction" in the theatre, but then downloaded it because it wasn't out on DVD yet and I wanted to see it again. You trying to tell me that even though I bought the book, paid $7.50 to see it in a theatre, I don't have the right to view a crappy lo-res copy? I'm going to say that anyone who is going to pay $5 for a shitty VCD copy on the street isn't going to spend $10 on going to see it in the theatre anyways. Until you can download a DVD-quality copy with surround sound and everyone has a 48' flat screen TV with $10,000 speakers, film downloads are going to have minimal impact on the film industry. But since we're talking about Keanu, let me play Devil's Advocate for a second here: fuck $10 admission. Fuck $7.00 popcorn. Fuck $3.25 for a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. They have enough money. Fuck movie studios who release films outside the U.S. on a rolling basis, so some kid in Uganda has to wait 7 months to see the Hulk. I'd download it too. For those of you who think this is like the MP3 debate, forget that: artists get an average of 6 cents per dollar for every album sold. Any screwing they gets from downloaded music is relatively minor compared to the one the industry has been giving artists for the past 75 years. I'll download a song by Madonna because she does have enough money; I'll buy the 2 skinnee j's album because they fucking work hard, they rock, and they deserve my money. Oh, and don't try and tell me that you uber-geeks have never watched a bootleg video copy of a film. Keep it real.

  • June 9, 2003, 10:20 a.m. CST

    Where does this site get off?

    by ZO

    You made ur name on doing this for years and now you get on a moral high horse? u think any of us read these shit reviews anyway? u think it will make us not see because some jerk saw a download?

  • June 9, 2003, 10:25 a.m. CST

    He's Got a point.....

    by Bugaboo

    But um......didn't Harry review an illegaly obtained copy of Episode II last year?

  • June 9, 2003, 10:26 a.m. CST

    About this supposed "Article" Moriarty just wrote

    by Hawley Martins

    It may not be a copywrite violation, but writing "Mortal Kombat 3" is DEFINITELY a MORAL violation.

  • June 9, 2003, 10:32 a.m. CST

    When AICN reviewed the stolen workprint of Episode II it was COM

    by rev_skarekroe

    Because, you see, it wasn't downloaded, which means... Um... What I mean to say is yeah, it was STOLEN, but since it was stolen from... No, wait... What it is... Uh... I gotta go! sk

  • June 9, 2003, 10:32 a.m. CST

    There are several points being raised here

    by earthworm

    1. Mori's rant is fucking hypocritical. As others have pointed out, Superman and AOTC scripts, as well as the AOTC itself, all bootlegged. Practise what you preach, just cos you now portray yourself as one of "them" doesn't mean you should forget who your audience here is. Seriously, would you have turned this down 5 years ago? I don't fucking think so. 2. Piracy is, to all intents and purposes, unjustifiable. It's copyright violation. Simple. But I do dispute how much it actually will hurt the BO take, certainly in the West, and certainly from P2P alone. OK, once the VCD's make their way to Eastern Europe and the Far East, it will hurt that market, but US and Western Europe? No-way. P2Pers are geeks who'll see the film no matter what, unless its shit, in which case it'll bomb anyway (or not as the case may be.) 3. It's not like the studios don't know this sort of thing happens, so increase the security. Ration the DVD's and watermark them. OK, you shouldn't *have* to, but get real. Don't just bleat about it, do something. If you have to change the way films are marketed, then do so. Release them at the same time, hold advance screenings in the week before hand. As many of these DVD's and screenings are held for the suits anyway, I'm sure you wouldn't get too many complaints from them

  • June 9, 2003, 10:36 a.m. CST

    The real point here

    by Captain Dobie

    Am I the only one seeing the big picture here???? It's not the fanboy geek sat in his little room downloading and watching it on his $3000 PC here that is the problem (as has been pointed out, the vast majority of these will still see it at the cinema irrespective of whether they enjoy it or not), it's the thousands of pirated DVD's that will be appearing over the next week or so that will be sold to gullible non-geeks as the real thing who will then watch it, hate it and tell all their non-geek friends how shit it is resulting in a massive chain of negative word of mouth....this is where the Box Office could and probably will suffer. I work with and know several dicks who regularly buy this shit and I can guarantee that by next week they'll be telling me all about the really crap Hulk movie they saw at the weekend. Twats.

  • June 9, 2003, 10:43 a.m. CST

    All you "industry" people...

    by darthferris

    ...hands up, if this has ever happened to you: "Sorry, Joe, we can't pay you for the gaffing work you did on Pearl Harbor 2. Some kid in Oklahoma downloaded the film, and, well, there goes our profit margin. Oh, can you give this $25 million dollar check to Mr. Bay on the way out?" Bullshit. Show me one, ONE example of how downloading has yet to hurt a release. ONE.

  • June 9, 2003, 10:47 a.m. CST

    Gimme A Break, Break me off a Piece of that Shit Shat Bar! I'll

    by SinisterGuido

    For years now, Hollywood has been offering us damaged goods. Their product has almost always been questionable at best. The industry Moriarty loves is a fat greasy grocer with gold rings and silk shirts stretched over his huge laughing tits. This guy is the stink on your balls. He doesn

  • June 9, 2003, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Well.....

    by ANGELS-EGG

    Ive seen hulk and as I said in my review its STORY is what will have many fans of the comic will hate.But generally its a good film and although it had incomplete fx wise (its rumoured to be 3 months old) its plot is there and that is its weakness the peformances are there and it is dry. Truth be told is that harry and mori probably hate the fact people have seen it before them.The whole site is based on seeing advanced stuff by any means (AOTC to name one) I do not own a copy or condone owning a copy BUT I have watched it with a friend at his workplace. And after seeing it I will still go and see it in the theatre to see the finished result.....But I know what to expect.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Moriarty I agree with you 100% but isn't reading and reviewing s

    by Tarl_Cabot

    I believe AICN pretty torpedoed Superman after your scripts review(the one with Luther as a Kryptonian). Isn't that reviewing something the general public isn't meant to see? Isn't Harry's review of AOTC guilty of the same thing? Sure it was positive(way too generous) but he gave away details months in advance. Why would Harry, a diehard SW Geek, want to see AOTC in a hotel room on a small TV with weak sound? I gave him shit for it in the TB's...Oh well. I agree the INET can be a platform for people who are hostile to the creative process.I think GL is really looking forward to finnishing his SW trilogy for that reason. Anyway, Good article Mori...Good luck with your script.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:08 a.m. CST

    I shouldn't HAVE to find you an example

    by rumbloid

    SHOW me one example where a kid shoplifting a chocolate bar hurt the salary of the chief executive of Hershey's. Can't, can you? Nope. Does that make it a legal thing to do? Does that make it right? Only if you've got shit for brains. Movie sales are NOT at an all time high. NOWHERE NEAR. If you think the studios are raking it in...think again. A 90 million opening weekend doesn't cover the costs on a big movie like the Hulk. Then, it's got to be a major summer release = big competition = won't be at the top spot for long = big drop in second week takings = it's a risky investment. VERY risky. It's big business. Big numbers get talked about. At the end of the day, however, it's as fallible as Enron. Something so simple as TV nearly killed movies off...and people then said 'how will it harm movies, they're two different mediums'...well, it hurt movies bad. If you didn't know that...well, you've got a serious gap in your history. Movie sales were at their highest just before TV took off in the fifties. Ticket sales ran to about 4 billion. Now they're running to about 1.5 billion a year. Movies, however, cost more to make today. How does piracy affect box office.... Well, that's the thing...we won't know until, like TV, it could be too late. But you can guarantee, the instant a perfect way of copying and distributing a pirate movie around the world at high quality comes about (and it can't be technologically far off...say 20 years? Maybe 30. By then, the major studios just won't bother making films any more as they won't know if they can recoup their money. Shitty investment. Don't come crying when your local multiplex closes down. And don't think it can't happen. Millions of stockbrokers didn't think ENRON was going to happen...but it did.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:08 a.m. CST

    I rip music but not movies

    by Lost Skeleton

    Why? Because the quality to is bad. Why would I want to see an unfinished product on a crappy monitor with substandard sound. Part of the reason why I go see movies, especially eye-candy films like the Hulk, is for the sound and finished effects. That is the same reason why I buy legitmate DVD's and not the crap Tyrone (no racist labels, I'm Black) is selling in the back of the barbershop is because I want to experience the film- not just see it. Hell, I don't even look at films on cable anymore. Yes, I admit that I file share some of the crappy music out there. (I hate the music industry for the crap they put out plus I am not going to contribute my hard earned $'s to rappers so they can buy a new Bently or waste it on crappy "ice".) However, if the artist is good and well respected...I will buy their album. To each it's own. I will not judge anyone. I will just say that I love movies too much to watch them unfinished without digital sound and a kick ass widescreen.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Whaaa!!

    by The_Great_Skeeve

    Every movie I have downloaded with the exception of one has the picture and sound quality of a 9 inch television with bad reception. I downloaded LOTR's and STILL went to see it in the theater TWICE and bought both DVD's even though I had the Oscar screener DVD copy (the only one that had a quality picture) HOW the HELL is this costing the studios money? First, the percentage of people who have fast enough connections to download the huge files is extrememly small compared to the overall "movie-going" population. Second, the percentage of those who would even do it is even smaller. Third, the percentage of those that would actually take the time to download the movie who aren't probably super geeks who are going to go see it anyway is very small. It may cost them about 1000 ticket sales in the US. Big Freaking deal. Go cry somewhere else.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:12 a.m. CST

    Yeah well..

    by Atropos

    'Kay, as far as I can see, the problem here isn't that people downloading movies and watching them on their computer (or in my case, burning them onto DVD and watching them on my home-cinema system) is hurting box-office. It's about hurting a movies box office by REVIEWING AN UNFINISHED COPY. This is where the idiocy lies, like the games magazines who'll review the unfinished beta-copy of a game in order to get a scoop. When you do this, especially with an effects-heavy movie like the Hulk, you're a moron. Also, piracy doesn't hurt box-office; what it WILL hurt is video- and DVD rentals. I haven't rented a DVD for nearly a year. I've downloaded instead, but to be fair, the ones I liked I've gone out and bought. But this will become a huge problem, THE huge problem. Not box-office returns. 'Nother thing: downloading doesn't actually violate copyright in large parts of the world, only spreading the copies to others is illegal. 'Course, it's still immoral, but like it has been pointed out, until the media conglomerates realise they can no longer dictate when and where the public is going to consume their products, and adapt, it's going to keep happening. The only way to stop people like me, who'd never watch a work-print or even a screener, but will happily download the dvd-rip of, say, "the Ring", is to start getting serious about using the internet as a means of distribution, and switching to global release-dates. Yes, I realise the studios are quite fond of being able to stagger the release of a film in order to maximise marketing and thus revenue. Well boo-fucking-hoo. The world's changed, move with it or lose it - like the music industry did (though the new iPod downloading system seems to have got it right, finally).

  • June 9, 2003, 11:19 a.m. CST

    My Two Cents

    by TheJake

    I had a thought... The average Joe busts his ass at a shitty job to earn his meager paycheck. He goes to the movies to blow off some steam at the end of the work week. He plops down 10 bucks for a ticket, 5 bucks for a drink and 5 bucks for a popcorn. He sits down and watches 2 hours of what some executive has determined to be "entertainment" and wishes he would've stayed home. I wonder, where is the refund for this SHIT they try to sell us? When will these movie studios stop WASTING millions of dollars on bullshit? The financiers of these (rated PG-13: so I can buy a couple of new houses) abominations have alot less to lose than the average movie goer. If they lose money because their crap is bootlegged - boo hoo. If it's on the internet and it gets good reviews, bootlegs are OK. If it gets bad reviews, its a horrible crime? I don't get it. Moriarty's rant sounds alot like an alibi...

  • June 9, 2003, 11:23 a.m. CST

    Spelling...

    by Felix Culpa

    If I see another person spell definitely as "definately", or ridiculous as "rediculous", or awful as "aweful" I'm going to go nuts. I love when people rant on this or any other message board and attempt to be intelligent and witty, yet they cannot spell. Read a book! Read something other than instant messages and internet chat. You only worsen your shoddy command of the English language by living on the screen. Any time I read something by one of these "reviewers" and I see they have fifth grade spelling skills, I stop. They have lost all credibility. I salute those of you talkbackers who are witty and can also spell. Moriarty, you are a good speller.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:28 a.m. CST

    You can't argue with that, well, you can but you won't win

    by 007-11

    I feel kind of dirty, I downloaded "Femme Fatale" rather than rent it. It was one of those crap taped in the theater versions. I thought it was a hell of a lot better than people were giving it credit for, especailly where Rebecca Romijn-Stamos is concerned. I rented it twcie to make up for that, and i've never looked back. We must all exercise some self-control for God sakes.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:33 a.m. CST

    PIRACY Is OVER RATED

    by Rcamacho2278

    I havent seen the hulk workprint cuz my girlfriend wants to see it in theatres but I did see 2 fast 2 furious on my pc. I must say that im happy I did not make a friday night for that movie, and waste 30+ bucks to feed the people who made that movie. Piracy doesnt hurt a movie, a bad movie hurts a movie. Lord of the rings was pirated, but everyone saw that movie anyway, Matrix was pirated, that made money too. its up to the individuals to decide if they wanna see the movie the way they can, its not stealing. With stuff that goes on in this world, with all the WORSE things people can do and the hipocrisy that goes on, is a kid seeing the hulk 2 weeks early really that bad? hes only cheating himself if he likes the film, but the movie is STILL gonna hit their target audience anyway. People will still be going to see this movie if they want, Whats really the issue on THIS website is the LACK of good reviews to movies. Harrys Review of 2 fast 2 furious was another example of how ridiculous these reviews have become. a Waste of time to read, Another problem with these sites and proof of more hipocrisy is releasing reviews of movies with SPOILERS. The matrix reloaded was trashed before Anybody saw it, so in a sense you hipocrites could be blamed for ruining the money matrix could have made by people who read your review .

  • June 9, 2003, 11:48 a.m. CST

    EVILNITElite misses the point, as do most of those cretins

    by Rikturscale

    For a label to make 20 mill on one artist, they lose 5 on 10 others. Internet swapping will only guarentee that NO one will see a profit. Let's see those cancelled checks to the artists. You didn't send ANY. Because you lie, you want what you get for free. The Renaissance happened without big money, you are totally clueless. Who were those Lords and Ladies who sponsered the artists but big money who made all of their money off of others? What about the artists who did not have a sponsor? they died PENNIELESS! They starved. Just like all of the artists who are counting on your $20.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Oh Christ

    by TheStrawDog

    Get off your fucking high-horse, man. I don't see how Harry reviewing a workprint of Attack of the Clones is OK, but this is unacceptable? So it's ok for Harry to review films that have yet to be released, but not the general public? Riiiight. I mean, isn't the critiquing of films in progress one of the main components to the AICN mission? Isn't one of the purposes of the website to show those these horrendous studios that they CANT just choke us down with half-assed, "geek" targted films? And another thing, I hope this DOES put an end to geek cinema, or as I often call it, gamer-cinema. I hate to fucking alert you people but it is the geeks (or more accurately, geek-pandering) that have been responsible for such shit as the prequels, Daredevil, X-Men (mediocre at BEST), etc etc. These studio execs are fucking you over, taking properties/characters that you've loved for years and desecrating them for mass consumption. "Geek-ifying" films is the true fucking danger (Yoda with a lightsaber? highly conscious "geek" move). For now Im starting to understand that "geeks" don't really love film (a medium of ART), but just manipulative trash as long as it's "totally kick-ass." And what's MORE immoral: pirating FILMS made by BILLIONAIRES and MILLIONAIRES or mp3's, made mainly by musicians who make, if they're lucky, as much as the average waiter (for an eye-opening read, check out famed-producer/musician Steve Albini's essay on major label villainy entitled "The Problem With Music").

  • June 9, 2003, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Anybody remember Real Cancun

    by roboslut

    Moriarity is a joke now. This is a guy that goes on a full paid studio junket to CANCUN, rights a story praising a piece of crap turd of a film it is, then watches it bomb at the theaters. Now he criticizes people for doing something this site has been doing for years - stealing scripts, watching workprints, etc. Give me a break.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Maybe its me old age but...

    by Gesus

    ...I just don't ever understand the attraction of downloading some half-assed pirate copy of a movie. Where is the logic in having crappy goods? You don't go into a shop to buy a new pairs of jeans and the only ones they have on the racks are fading, piss stained, shit caked old ones to try on. Fuck man, let the film makers finish their work, let them get it out on in theatres and go and see it. Go see a movie like how you use to, with no advance copies, scripts or spoilers. Go in, let the magic (or shit if its Gullet Proof Spunk) wash over you, walk out and then go online and sing its praises or kick its malformed throat in. Don't sit in your cruddy rooms or hi-tech uber pads and download an unfinished copy of, hell even finished copy of a movie, learn a bit of restraint, a touch of patience and relearn the expierence of knowing what it feels like to wait and why that it is a good thing. I'm glad that I know how to show restraint, I like a good review or a tidbit of info but I don't want the whole shebang blown by someone else's like or dislike of a movie and I don't want people ruining something for me, even before its actually available to view in my local multiplex. As I said maybe's its my age (30 in 5 days) but I remember being buzzed on seeing Empire Strikes Back and being floored when I was 7 when Han took the fall, Vader dropped his bombshell and Luke went to lefty, it hit so hard as the internet didn't exist to spoil and sully this moment. As back then it was easier to avoid, our "get info fast and first culture" and spoil it for those not in the know. People are free to do what they like and if they want to download the Hulk or see a preview of AOTC then that's their call but sometimes it would be much butter if we chilled out, sat on hands a little longer and let the excitement of the actual release date float your boat and not some downloads that do injustice to the art of film making.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:57 a.m. CST

    Moriarty is just upset that the CGI is a joke and people are cal

    by chillzatl

    If it weren't for the horribly cartoonish CGI this looks like it could be a fucking awesome movie. But the CGI is soo damned bad, how is anyone supposed to stop seeing this cartoonish character long enough to care about the guy who does the real acting?

  • June 9, 2003, noon CST

    At last! Someone else gets it...

    by rumbloid

    Hoo-fucking-ray. Nice one Rikturscale. Look at the end credits of a movie folks...they usually run about, oh, eight minutes. That's a SHITLOAD of people. Now, how many of them made 10mil of the movie...right, that'd be none. And don't you dare, anybody, hold up the example of the honest, upstanding citizen who works his butt off for minimum wage and then doesn't enjoy a movie he's spent 20 dollars on. Stop thinking Hollywood is screwing you. a) you don't qualify as honest upstanding citizens if you download unfinished workprints of movies. b) whether he chooses to go and see a movie or not is his choice. Free will. If he doesn't like it...well, that's not to say everybody doesn't like it. Opinion is no justification for crime. The perceived quality of a movie has no bearing upon the morality or legality of stealing it. And congratulations to the person who griped about spelling. Nice to see the poster after it paid a whole lot of attention. eg. 'Cuz' It takes, what, two seconds to type 'because'. Why not do it? Because you can't be fucked. Just like you can't be fucked to give a toss about the people who work fucking hard in the movie industry for no more money than you earn stacking supermarket shelves. You'll just steal their work, as it's worthless to you.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:03 p.m. CST

    Hypocrite!

    by Karnov

    Eh Harry, are you not the same guy that gushed over a work print of Episode 1 that somebody in Lucasfilm backdoored for you? Whine much just because you were scooped?

  • June 9, 2003, 12:05 p.m. CST

    a different beast...

    by nuprin

    ..was AOTC! Happy George was screaming to get screwed in the poop-shoot when he released that piece of would-be cinema Phantom Menace. Either way, there are truths in both sides of this argument. One thing's for sure, the problem is going to get worse before it gets better. Hell, even I've downloaded movies before...but that was mostly porn (nooch!).

  • June 9, 2003, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Oh, and TheStrawDog

    by rumbloid

    "And what's MORE immoral: pirating FILMS made by BILLIONAIRES and MILLIONAIRES" You're so full of fucking shit it's not true. 98% of people who work in the movie industry probably earn no more than your average teacher. It's no different to the music industry, a few notable folks in the limelight with shitloads, tons of talent in the shadows behind them working their butts off to make something worthwhile that will entertain people. Have you never seen the credits of a movie? Add them up, and then work out that the average payout, excluding huge name actors, on a movie is something like 10 million. Between something like 1000 people. (the credits never list everybody by any means) Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Surprised no one's metioned it yet...

    by WeedyMcSmokey

    ... With the latest ruling handed down by Colin Powell's kid regarding media ownership, I'm surprised there isn't more of a reaction that would be pro-download. I agree with the poster that pointed out that modern copyright law seems to exist to benefit everyone but the artist who is rarely given the option of owning their own work. Frankly, it seems that every party is being taken care of except the consumer - we are not protected, So with $14 films here in the Great White North, $20 CDs, bankrupt artists and completely morally and ethically bankrupt media conglomorates, you'll forgive me if I just can't give a shit. Most of the time I would choose to not consume any of the tired crap that is excreted by middle-of-the-road PG-13 producing crap-houses anyway - companies have a right to make profits - but when the overall impact is uber-wealthy and powerful oligopolies, poor art and an abused consumer, then I question what moral high-ground anyone possesses..

  • June 9, 2003, 12:13 p.m. CST

    This site posts illegal information pracically on a DAILY BASIS.

    by Barximus

    What's the difference in a couple of hard legs obtaining a pirated copy of a film and Harry and others making a living off people feeding them information about film projects even after they've signed a non-disclosure agreement with a studio? The next time some inside guy with Lucas or WETA emails Harry or Moriarty with a juicy bit of info that's not supposed to leave the office, will Harry and Mori take the moral high ground and not put it on their money-making website? I find this all very hypocritical.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:16 p.m. CST

    I really can't believe this...

    by Macplus

    I agree with certain others who have already posted. It is so hypocritical to preach the evils of piracy and then work on a site that gets a large portion of its information from illegally obtained sources (scripts, preview copies, etc.) But, of course, we can't expect Moriarity to dirty his pristine fingers by agreeing to this. He would then have to give up his prestigious "sources". Yes, pirating movies is illegal. I'm not even going to try to justify it. It is done, though, and it is going to be really hard to stop it. One last note. I want to see Moriarity put up an official response to all users' comments. I want to see how he justifies how he gets his information. We definetly need to protest until he does.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:21 p.m. CST

    There is no such thing as a free ride

    by devilvet

    I think that so many people feel entitled to free music, free movies, free digital stuff on the net becuase...it is simply possible. Becuase, they don't make enough money to consume every thing they want. They seem to not believe that there is a possiblity that one day we all i.e. users of the internet will end up paying for there appetites. Didn't the music industry succeed in getting a certain percentage of all sales on blank cassette tapes because it was deemed that their primary purpose was copying? Soon we may have to pay huge fines just to use the internet becuase it is deemed to be simply a tool for theft. Or we could have regulations on who and what gets to even be put on the internet (legally that is). Soon mp3 technology may be like bongs (i mean water pipes). Stealing the music is not a responsible way to usurp the big business. The ultimate result will be big business succeeding in make adversaries of the artists and the audience.

  • I've never EVER seen a film ilegally. I pay 13 quid a month for a cinema pass and I visit this site because I enjoy the fact that a bunch of people can put Big Studios one their knees. And now the very same people who watch stolen copies and review early drafts, and spoils the film for thousands of readers come out blaming us for something they've been doing for years. You are a hypocrite. Shame on you.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:27 p.m. CST

    Ok "Uncle Mori" Answer This One Fucking Question

    by Cannonball

    DO YOU CONDONE HARRY'S FAT "THIEVING" ASS FOR REVIEWING A STOLEN COPY OF AOTC THAT HE WATCHED IN A FUCKING HOTEL ROOM? An unfinished print, might I add. Now I'm trying to remember what he did after viewing that stolen property...hold on...oh yeah...HE FUCKING REVIEWED THE SHIT OUT OF IT ON THIS VERY FUCKING WEBSITE. Whether or not the review was positive is irrelevant. DO YOU CONDONE THIS?

  • June 9, 2003, 12:30 p.m. CST

    i mean

    by devilvet

    artists become the audience's adversary. Madonna's little mp3 "What the hell do you think your doing?" To somebody hacking her site becuase she dared to not want her stuff copied. i know Madonna (boo fucking hoo). But that mentality will continue will spread. These guys who say they want to pay the artist with out a middle man. What bull. If they had an independent artist they really liked who published his/her own cds...but they could download the music mp3 for nothing...then they would just let the artist starve for being too stupid to let their shit out for free.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:32 p.m. CST

    There does need to be a response from big M and Harry...

    by nuprin

    I love this site (not necessarily for the opinions of the people who run it, but because of the juicy details and the fact that REAL fans come here). But there are many who throw tomatoes at it...and yet they are here everyday!! Moriarity, the talk backs demanding a response are right. You should justify ACIN's own business practices now that you've put the heat on piracy (not sure if that was the way to handle it...you couild've just said "idiots! your reviews are shit because you haven't seen the final print yet!" and left it at that). Both sides of this argument have valid points, but for the sake of the site, tell us why you and Harry do the things you do, and why that is better than what has happened to this HULK print.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Hulk's CGI looks terrible in the commericals!!!!!!!!!!

    by Silver Shamrock

    I don't need a workprint to know it looks like crap. And Moriarity is a hypocrite. How many reviewers on this site agreeded to see advanced screenings of movies and promised not to post reviews on the Internet? Don't spin it. The whole point of this site is cutting edge scoops you can't get anywhere else. Do us a favor and keep up the scoops and stop with the "Gambling in the casino? I'm shocked, SHOCKED!!" and convient moralizing. Pull-lease.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:39 p.m. CST

    'Pot,' 'Kettle' anyone?

    by Yammertool

    I'm sure this post will be deleted just like other similar ones were over the past week, but this whole situation reeks of hypocrisy. Seems like some chickens are finally coming home to roost though. Moviehole.net and several other sites are running stories about AICN's involvement with the fake 'Angel' script. Here's a press release sent out by the writer's publicist: Writer may sue Harry Knowles over 'Angel script' controversy Charlotte, NC (June 9) – A script penned by screenwriter Richard O’Sullivan has caused controversy after it was mistakenly reported on the Internet that it was the script for the season opener of the WB television show “Angel.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:45 p.m. CST

    Shame on us, Mori?

    by staley

    I thought you guys were on our side. Oh well, thanks for clearing that up.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:46 p.m. CST

    This is the WORLD'S MOST HYPOCRITICAL post ever!!!!! Gee, didn'

    by Ted Striker

    Come on, this whole site is based on spoilers and people's opinions who see the movie early. WAKE UP. I like you Moriarity, but come on... This rant of your's is being posted on the same web site that reviewed Star Wars: Episode II four months in advance after stealing and watching a WORK PRINT! Does anyone else NOT see the hypocrisy in this? Do you, Moriarity, and Harry if you're reading this, not realize this is what your site is ALL ABOUT? Reviewing movies EARLY and then leaking word about it AGAINST the studios wishes?? Jesus Christ, what a stupid reaction from a highly intelligent person -- Moriarity, you're the best thing about this site, but what a DUMB post. File Trading sites like Kazaa can be wonderful - they arguably INCREASE the amount of business for movie studios -- yes, ESPECIALLY the movie industry. Why? Because unlike music, the quality of movies SUCK traded on Kazaa -- people who can't wait to watch the movie WILL EVENTUALLY see this in the theatre, and more than likely buy the DVD and show all their friends. Just because you're now working on a movie project and you've joined the Dark Side, and you get alot of email over the weekend and forgot how to use the DELETE key and move on with your HYPOCRITICAL life, don't go posting stupid shit like this anymore to prove how upstanding you and this site are! Are you telling me, Moriarity, that YOU have NEVER downloaded an MP3? Come on! So don't give me this high and mighty speech about protecting money-grubbing companies with MONOPOLIES that have been in COLLUSION for YEARS, keeping prices ARTIFICIALLY high and BILKING consumers for all they've got. Ya know, the more I think about this post, the more angry I get. So, you're disappointed in Fan-Dom? THIS SITE IS ALL ABOUT FAN-DOM!! IT PAYS YOUR FUCKING SALARY. Poor, poor Moriarity and the rest of the AICN staff, you ALL lead a rough life living your dreams in the movies. Does anyone have a tissue? God, I think I'll start reading DarkHorizons much more frequently now.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:50 p.m. CST

    Never downloaded a movie before...

    by Stokowski

    BUT I WOULD IF I A HAD A FASTER INTERNET CONNECTION AND A BETTER COMPUTER(not a circa '97 one). Pushing aside my honesty, I for one applaud good old Moriarty for making such an ass of himself again. Nice to see the mention of your scriptwriting adventures too, for it certainly was the cherry on top of the shit-pie that this article is. Just stop your preaching crap and deliver some actual COOL NEWS for a change bub.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:54 p.m. CST

    you bunch of miserable pussies!

    by Slab SquatThrust

    wwwwaaaaaaaa---I live at home with my mom and don't have a job and can't afford a multi-region dvd player and don't get into press screenings and don't have any industry contacts---wwwwaaaaaaaa! Grow up you fucking tits! Maybe the reason Harry and Mori get to do things and see things you don't is because they worked their asses off (well, figurativly anyway) for years with this site and making contacts and actually doing any damn thing with their lives instead of sitting around endlessly bitching about every fucking thing they didn't have! Bunch of fucking titty-babies on this site! Fuck. And by the way, the difference between file sharing and the bootleg AOTC is that Harry didn't post that bootleg on the net to be seen by thousands of people. And he didn't go looking for it to see in advance, people brought it to him. Oh yeah, and it is HIS FUCKING JOB to review movies!

  • June 9, 2003, 12:54 p.m. CST

    you bunch of miserable pussies!

    by Slab SquatThrust

    wwwwaaaaaaaa---I live at home with my mom and don't have a job and can't afford a multi-region dvd player and don't get into press screenings and don't have any industry contacts---wwwwaaaaaaaa! Grow up you fucking tits! Maybe the reason Harry and Mori get to do things and see things you don't is because they worked their asses off (well, figurativly anyway) for years with this site and making contacts and actually doing any damn thing with their lives instead of sitting around endlessly bitching about every fucking thing they didn't have! Bunch of fucking titty-babies on this site! Fuck. And by the way, the difference between file sharing and the bootleg AOTC is that Harry didn't post that bootleg on the net to be seen by thousands of people. And he didn't go looking for it to see in advance, people brought it to him. Oh yeah, and it is HIS FUCKING JOB to review movies!

  • June 9, 2003, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Its all about that final click of the button

    by Frying Bologna?

    Its a strange place to bring it up, but Mori's point is correct about stealing someone's else shizzle. Click that button and you have to answer to your morals (see 90% of the above postings for the stories we tell ourselves to justify our choice). But it is still stealing. No way to deny that. There is no need to blame the studios/middle-men/distributors etc. This is a deal between you and the artist who is creating the art. Download, and you might as well slap them in the face. That, I would guess, is their anger. Everyone else involved is choked over the $$, no doubt, but there is little that is mightier than the dollar/Euro/whatever, so there are a bunch of suits (and other studio employees) taking this whole downloading thing personal as well. Hypocrisy? Huge, because it seems to me that 'Aint It Cool' deals in obscure, hard-to-find knowledge and details; Website motto "If you ain't the first, you might as well be last." Therefore, AIC is painted guilty by association... you court those who want to trade in the new/cool/hip information (why do you think you were sent all those reviews, Mori?). But remember, you should always dance with those what brought ya!

  • June 9, 2003, 1:01 p.m. CST

    is it copyright violation?

    by rabidbadger

    is it copyright violation? No, it is only a violation of copyright if money is made by somebody from someone elses intellectual property. The people who sell the vcds and make money off of them are in violation because they are making money on a copyrighted item without permission. The person that took the print is the only one that could be a thief. They took what was not theirs to take. They are the only thief. All they wankers that downloaded it are guilty of posession of stolen property. It is the same thing as buying a hot TV or watch. I think that if they wish to do it more power to them. In live you have to do what you think is right. Just be ready to take what you get.

  • June 9, 2003, 1:10 p.m. CST

    No matter how you justify it this is STEALING!!! You are thieves

    by Jeff Batt

    If you don't want Arnie and Willis to make $20 million a film, don't see their movies. They make that kind of money because no one wants to see Joe Smith as the Terminator. If you go into the grocery store and walk out with some eggs, isn't that stealing? I do believe there is some apparant hypocrisy on this site though. Reviewing a script isn't the same as an unfinished movie but I do remember Ep II and One Hour Photo being reviewed. They weren't going out of their way to hurt a movie, though. There is just no way around it though. If you download music or a movie without paying for it, you are stealing. And like one person brought up, these summer movies need to make hundreds of millions of dollars to make a profit. This includes opening weekend and DVD sales. If the movie is STOLEN ahead of time, this will affect how much it makes. You'll then be stuck with movies like The English Patient or The Hours which don't cost much to make but at least make profits. By the way, Harry technically didn't break any law because he didn't steal the print he saw nor did he keep it. He also went out of the way in his review to point out the FX weren't completed and took that into account.

  • June 9, 2003, 1:16 p.m. CST

    All Right Moriarty- Stick it to the man!

    by Godardwhowhatnow

    Way to go, man. It's about time somebody stood up for the struggling, oftentimes underfinanced genre we call "geek films." Too many of these films fly under the radar. I managed to snag tickets to X2: X-Men United a few weeks ago (I live in LA- I pity those in suburbia who didn't get a chance to catch this little arthouse gem), and I'll tell you, it was worth the wait. And did anyone even SEE Spiderman when it came out? I mean, I remember seeing a few copies lying around the back shelves of Alphaville Video(my local indie rental store), but I heard nothing about it when it came out. You all need to stop RAPING the genre by pirating, or we will SURELY see an end to geek films. Or, not.

  • June 9, 2003, 1:18 p.m. CST

    The film industry is not losing money because of internet piracy

    by Jojo Babar

    It is a lie, and I'll tell you why. First of all, I should tell you, I'm an aspiring filmmaker, and I'm hoping to go into production of my 1st feature-length film next summer. So I have a vested interest in protection of copyrights. The film industry claims it loses 3 to 3.5$ billion a year to piracy. Wrong! Why? Because the bulk of internet pirates/downloaders can be put into two categories. First category, contains those who download a film, then go see it at the theatre, and/or buy the DVD. The second category is made of people who wouldn't pay to see that movie anyway, regardless of its availability on the web, because they can't afford it (it is a known fact that most of the movies are pirated on college campuses), or they just don't care enough about movies to spend their hard-earned money into this. That's it! Oh, sure, there a few people out there who might think:"I've downloaded it, there is no reason for me to pay for it now!", but do you know what percentage of the entire population they actually represent? The industry thinks: people download 600 000 movies a day, that comes to about 3$ billion a year. That is not the right way to calculate this. You have to remember that when someone downloads a film, he does not actually steal a physical copy from the studio, in which they had to invest money to physically create. He just takes an image of that film, that's all. This is exactly the same thing as if an architect wanted to sue someone who made a popsicle sticks replica of a skyscraper he designed. Personally, I won't care if people download my future movies, and that's because my main goal, what I want the most, is for people to see my films, and to enjoy them. It's not about making millions, although I will certainly be glad to be able to, and internet piracy is not going to stop that. That's the studio's job! And that is why copyright law was created, to protect artist and creators from being ripped of by mega-corporations, because if there were no such laws, believe you me, the corporations would steal everything they can, and you know that's true! Even with those laws in place, they find ways to do it! Look at the music industry, which gives the artists 5 to 10 cents for every dollar they make on the backs of these people's creativity. And speaking of the music industry, do you know why they sell less and less cds every year? No, it's not because of internet. Who buys the most music? The teenagers. When we were kids (for me, that was the 80's), what did we buy with our allowance? Records! And that's basically it! We didn't really buy anything else, did we? But today, the number of products available (and marketed) to teens has so dramatically increased, they have to make choices about how to spend their money. Take for exemple DVDs. In the 80's, and early 90's, people didn't buy movies. You could not walk in a store and buy a film. I remember people used to say all the time:"Why would you buy a movie, cause once you've seen it, there's not point in seeing it again." But in the late 90's, the home video market boomed, and the emergence of DVDs as taken it to a whole new level. Or take video games. We had them back then, but it wasn't anything like it is today. Today, kids have to fork over 80$ (80 Dollars, for fuck's sake!!) for a video game. That's the price of 4 CDs! That, plus the ridiculously high-priced clothes, and the beepers and the cell phones and the roller-blades and the this and the that...kids have to split their money between all of these things. So if course, they're gonna buy less music, especially since they can get it for free over the internet intead of forking over 20 bucks to buy an album filled with mostly boring tunes! I think it's time the film and music industry wake up, stop being such greedy bastards, and understand that they're not gonna beat this thing, they can only join it. So kudos to Itunes for doing just that, with great success, I might add, and please, for fuck's sake, make it available to the other 95% of the population who owns a real computer!!

  • June 9, 2003, 1:33 p.m. CST

    So many good points...brain...hurt...

    by Shabbadoo

    Reading Moriarty's rant really made me feel guilty over the bootleg of Modern Times (such an appropriate film) I downloaded a few days ago...but then I read the talkbacks, and the guilt sort of washed away. I'm not quite of the mental capacity to jump into the middle of this debate or crusade or whatever the hell we're calling it, but I will say this: Moriarty made some damn strong points, but the talkbackers so far have made some even stronger ones in my eyes (most likely due to the fact that Moriarty's outnumbered here). I'll just make two simple statements in both party's favors; artisticly, bootlegging IS wrong and I don't think there is any denying that. Filmmakers and studios have certain intentions for their movies and where they should be seen and enjoyed, and until they start pumping out DVDs, the privacy of your own home is not one of those places. I highly doubt Ang Lee was in the middle of a great shoot when he thought to himself "Damn, I can't wait for people to start watching this thing for free before it gets released in the theaters". I can't imagine that being any filmmakers dream. On the other hand, though, I don't think it's right of Moriarty to rip on this guy that used his real name to review a bootleg when HARRY KNOWLES did the same thing last year with an even higher profile film than The Hulk. I don't know. I'm not downloading the goddamn thing one way or another. I'm an idealist and the only way to see a new or upcoming release for the first is on a big fuckin' screen with a bunch of people I don't know.

  • June 9, 2003, 1:38 p.m. CST

    Why Harry wasn't breaking the law with AOTC

    by MiserableRainGod

    Harry is INNOCENT! I had to think about this for a while, because I originally said to myself, "Harry was wrong to do that...this whole website breaks the law!" But as I was writing my post I realized it doesn't. Moriarty has every right to preach to us (I presume), because AICN DOESN'T (normally) break copyright law. A few weeks ago, Harry Potter 5 was stolen. Then, it got left in a field. Then, some guy found it and gave it to a reporter. Then, the reporter read it, reviewed it, and returned it to the publisher. The reporter and the guy who found it aren't guilty of any crimes, are they? No - only the people who stole it. If there is a copyright on something, then whoever holds the it is supposed to get $$$ every time that thing is reproduced (ie, they have the RIGHT to control the COPIES of that thing - COPYRIGHT.). Evertime it's on TV or radio, every time it gets stamped on disk...wherever and whenever it's reproduced. If you copy something without permission and without giving the copyright holder their $$$, you are breaking copyright law. When you download a movie, some P2P user's computer is making a copy and sending it to you. That copy is NOT paid for. You broke the law. Justify it all you want, you are NOT doing society a favor. BUT, if someone sends Harry a script, and he doesn't copy it, then he hasn't violated that law. The guy who stole it, yeah, HE did something illegal, but not Harry. Ditto for AOTC - Harry didn't COPY it, he just watched it. Was it a legal copy? Doesn't matter. The reporter read Harry Potter 5, and that wasn't a legal copy. That's why this site hasn't been closed down. After all, we all know who Harry Knowles is. We know he lives in Austin. We've seen his animated tits. We've passed by (over?) his book in the bookstore. He isn't in jail, not for this site, so obviously he has't been breaking the law. People who download the movies themselves, on the other hand, DO break the law. I'm not judging, because I am not without fault, I'm just clarifying it for all of you. And when I commit a crime, I know it's a crime. I don't try to justify it, like some people here.

  • June 9, 2003, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Yeah, yeah JoJo Babar, you're so virtous. You're not in the movi

    by Jeff Batt

    I don't mean to be a dick but you're full of it. And like I said, just because YOU believe Movie Sudios and the Music Industry Execs make too much money DOESN'T give you the right to STEAL from them!!!! Nobody has a constitutional right to FREE entertainment!!!!

  • June 9, 2003, 1:43 p.m. CST

    porn vs. the film industry

    by trkane

    the porn industry makes as much money or more as mainstream movies in the US these days, in terms of yearly gross. its true. and we've all downloaded free porn....well, most of us. anyhow, pirated porn is readily available, and apparently enough people still go out and buy the stuff. and people will go see the hulk as well. its the kind of movie you want to see on a big huge screen, just like porn is much better on dvd than it is on the computer (can't beat that super fast-forwarding to get to the good parts). so lets not get too upset about this until hulk's numbers come in. i guarantee it does just fine, at least as well as daredevil.

  • June 9, 2003, 1:44 p.m. CST

    pirates

    by sheba6086

    There will always be people who want something for nothing. However, people will always go to a theater to see a GOOD movie. For example, I can't imagine anyone seeing LOTR on a computer then NOT going to the theater at their earliest opportunity. On the other hand, if it is a crummy movie unworthy of box office dollars then the studio gets what it deserves for producing crap. It is my hope that the pirates will force the hand of those behind the volcanic eruption of tripe that has been spewing from hollywood for far too long.

  • June 9, 2003, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Hulking out and Attack of the Clones.

    by Amano Jyaku

    1.)Harry reviewed a bootleg of Attack of the Clones before it came out. I didn't read you complaining about that dude. 2.)I didn't even know the HUlk was available for download until you just ADVERTSISED it to the entire INTERNET. Good job dude. And not only that, you also ADVERTISED three download programs to use. Smart man. Real smart. You forgot GROKSTER at grokster.com and MORPHEUS. 3.)I could care less about incomplete special effects. All I want to see is Jennifer Connelly and the DRAMA between the characters. If I want all three, I'll watch BLADE RUNNER. 4.) I never heard of BitTorrent before your article. Thanks. Sincerely yours, Amano ps - outstanding job advertising the HULK on the internet. I estimate you helped increase the downloading of that movie by ten fold. You've got my vote man.

  • June 9, 2003, 1:48 p.m. CST

    I Come Here to Be Chastised By Moriarty.

    by KONG33

    Fuck you.

  • June 9, 2003, 1:49 p.m. CST

    MISERABLERAINGOD "BUT, if someone sends Harry a script, and he d

    by Cannonball

    No, the law that Harry broke goes by the name of "recieving stolen property" which is a federal crime. So take that.

  • June 9, 2003, 1:50 p.m. CST

    The Hulk reinvents zombie piracy...

    by Hobbitastic

    and it's angry as hell.

  • June 9, 2003, 1:52 p.m. CST

    I'll stop pirating when hollywood stops ruining 90% of it's film

    by JaphyRyder

    The subject title sums it up for me. It cost what? like 15 bucks (Canadian, mind you) to see a movie. More often then not with the majority of big budget movies that come out,they are nothing but a vehicle for stars that don't belong in the movie in the first place, 90+ minute glorified commercials, or castrated in the name of "political correctness". If I download a movie and it's good, hell yeah, I'll pony up the cash to see it on a big screen, like it should be seen.

  • June 9, 2003, 1:52 p.m. CST

    JOJO BABAR you lying FUCKFACE

    by dommy-gnome

    You had me going until you said "people with real computers". You un-creative MONKEY BALLS FUCKER! No "screenwriter" is using a fucking pc. get a mac ASSHOLE.

  • June 9, 2003, 2:04 p.m. CST

    Um...FTF...

    by dommy-gnome

    I may agree with some of what you said about Harrys slip in movie-punk-rockness, but you do know he didn't write that article, right?

  • June 9, 2003, 2:07 p.m. CST

    stop justifying it! If I do it I admit it's wrong, and I know wh

    by MiserableRainGod

    You folks gotta stop trying to justify your copyright violations! If you copy something, you are a criminal. No one will come busting down your door, true, but rest assured you are a criminal and you ARE taking away somone else's money (very few people who work on movies make any more $$$ than you do). I read some posts about how copying actually helps the movie industry. "If I download a movie and it was good, I'll go see it in the theatre, because the download quality stunk." That ain't quite right. There's a whole industry, the advertising industry, whose livelihod is getting you into the theatres witout your own, personal test screeing. By downloading movies you hurt that industry, too. There's always a victim. But go ahead, buy into that argument that the economy is helped by your piracy of movies. BUT, in the music industry it's quite different. Most of the time music is copied you DON'T go buy the CD. You can't separate the 2 artforms...so downloading will remain illegal. Copyright isn't about seeing the stuff, it's about copying and distributing the stuff. If the artists want to distribute stuff on their own, they now can, with the internet. However, they most likely won't make any money on it. Artists need financial backers. That's the real truth, as an artist (writer) I know. You can't just forget it so that your justifications work a little better, and you can tell youself you're NOT a lawbreaker. You sure are.

  • June 9, 2003, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Sound like an idiot from IGN

    by AlwaysThere

    When your defending this movie.

  • June 9, 2003, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Hypothetical question...

    by shearerisgod

    So Moriarty, if you were offered the chance to view a workprint of The Hulk a week ago, would you have gone into your whole 'shame on you' spiel to the person who offered it to you? Would you fuck. Some of us were offered this opportunity, took it, and will undoubtedly still go see it in the cinema. Shame on us indeed.

  • June 9, 2003, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Clutch Embargo....

    by ANGELS-EGG

    Dont beleive ANY hype m8...The film is very good but not a all out action extravagnza like the trailers & publicity make you to beleive its a ang lee film.If your not too bothered too much about changes to the story,like dramatic films and are willing to 'let it go' in the world of movies then this is for you. If your expecting something like spiderman (dumb popcorn flick) then forget it. My ONLY gripe with the film is that the deep serious drama & nutty fx action & comic book cutaways dont quite gel together ( and no I dont mean bad fx). Good example....When I saw CTHD at my local 'arthouse' cinema I was the ONLY young guy there I was surrounded by stuffy arty types who were probably expecting the next 'sense & sensibilty' many got up and left the film halfway through. One called it utter rubbish!.This film is very similar in that respects its extreme fantasy and serious drama slapped together and is NOT your regular summer movie...I liked it a lot but you have been warned!

  • June 9, 2003, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Clutch Embargo....

    by ANGELS-EGG

    Dont beleive ANY hype m8...The film is very good but not a all out action extravagnza like the trailers & publicity make you to beleive its a ang lee film.If your not too bothered too much about changes to the story,like dramatic films and are willing to 'let it go' in the world of movies then this is for you. If your expecting something like spiderman (dumb popcorn flick) then forget it. My ONLY gripe with the film is that the deep serious drama & nutty fx action & comic book cutaways dont quite gel together ( and no I dont mean bad fx). Good example....When I saw CTHD at my local 'arthouse' cinema I was the ONLY young guy there I was surrounded by stuffy arty types who were probably expecting the next 'sense & sensibilty' many got up and left the film halfway through. One called it utter rubbish!.This film is very similar in that respects its extreme fantasy and serious drama slapped together and is NOT your regular summer movie...I liked it a lot but you have been warned!

  • Dodgy Disney tapes anyone?

  • June 9, 2003, 2:22 p.m. CST

    I'll support tougher fines for bootlegging when . . .

    by Moa Kaka

    Studios give refunds for movies that don't live up to what is promised. When you buy any other product or service, if that product or service does not live up to what was promised or is defective in some way, you can get a refund. Yet studies can MAKE UP FAKE REVIEWS praising their movies, but when the audience realizes it's been tkaen for a ride - NO REFUND. I think most people who watch bootleg will pay to see the movie in a theatre in addition to watching the bootleg copy, if the movie is any good. If the movie isn't any good, then the filmakers are at fault. As I said, the day studios are required to give refunds when their phoney reviews turn out to be false, that's the day I'll support tougher fines for bootlegging.

  • June 9, 2003, 2:23 p.m. CST

    There's also other options

    by burningbabyfish

    For whatever reason, you can generally find the novelization of movies out a month or two before it hits the screen. I've already read Hulk (wasn't that impressed, personally), and read Daredevil and X-2 before they came out on screen. If people are that desperate to find out the storyline, read a goddamn book. Or would that tax the brain too much? Personally, I like doing it that way. I get to see my version of the movie - my imagination of what the novel says - and then get to see what the director did with the same material. Why would you want a work print with crappy CGI anyhow? *shakes head* And as somebody mentioned before - re: Harry's AOTC review - that was just the two of them seeing the print, not downloading it online. There's a big difference.

  • June 9, 2003, 2:25 p.m. CST

    To Canonball

    by MiserableRainGod

    You might be right about that - being in posession of a stolen script may be against the law. I don't know. I know Harry asks for the scripts all the time, but he doesn't pay for them (that he tells us). They're just gifts. Maybe he sends them back when he's done. I don't know if what he does with scripts is against the law, and I don't care. I break the law, too. I assume that he isn't breaking the law, though, because everyone and their pedophile uncle knows who and where Harry is. If he was breaking the law, someone would sue him! Watching AOTC wasn't breaking the law, but other stuff might be.

  • June 9, 2003, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Shearerisgod.....

    by ANGELS-EGG

    ...I agree totally 100% with you as I got to see it by chance. I never went out just to look for it (unlike the staff of AICN). If mori or harry had the chance to see it they would and they sure as hell would be posting their own reviews here on this site BEFORE they are officially invited to a real screening. Fucking hypocrites through and through....

  • June 9, 2003, 2:29 p.m. CST

    Hey Kettle, this is Pot, you're black

    by mjbok1

    Look at this quote from Moriarty from article: http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=8405 "David Cross is one of the funniest stand-up comics I've ever seen, and I'm a total freak for live comedy. His HBO special THE PRIDE IS BACK was an outstanding one-hour, as good as they get, and I would never... NEVER.. suggest that you go find it on Napster. Now. Quick." How is this any different? It has been covered here quite well, but this whole rant is just a hypocritical stance. Ill-gotten scripts, AOTC, work-prints, the whole fiasco with Joe Hallenbeck. This is a topic that the higher-ups here have no right to comment on unless they own up to their own misdeads. Something about glass-houses...

  • June 9, 2003, 2:29 p.m. CST

    Jealousy......

    by Tripman5000

    Is what all you people who didn`t get the chance to see the print are feeling.You`re telling me you wouldn`t have watched it,given the chance? And no,we don`t all watch bootlegs on PC monitors-there are such a thing as bootleg dvds you know,where we can watch movies on things called TELEVISIONS!Just because we do that,doesn`t mean we don`t also go to the cinema.Are you people telling me you don`t tape songs off the radio before buying them?BULLSHIT! Why shouldn`t a movie be reviewed from a workprint?The story is still the same,regardless of effects and,quite frankly,it`s SHITE!

  • June 9, 2003, 2:30 p.m. CST

    I Repect You Mr Knowles and The Gang *Spoilers*

    by ktownman

    But when you review a movie or get a early peek and you do admit it arent you doing what were doing? Do you and or your staff pay for the right... I know Kazaa and Bit Torrent and Emule et al are wrong of course I do any person with half a brain would know that. Your staff of reviewers get free screenings and free stuff and revenue from certain movie banners which you need to make a profit and I respect that but early knowledge and so forth and you gotta admit that at least on computer in the AICN Infrastructure there is P2P programs installed. I will go see Hullk on June 20th Opening Night first show and ive already seen the movie. Ive seen enough movies to know what a workprint and I went into seeing that with an opening mind I expected no CGI at all and what I saw I was impressed with. The Origin is too much changed from the comic books for my taste and having Bruce's father be a pseudo Abosrbing Man was kinda lame but I loved the psycho emotional feel the movie gave me. Sam Eillot was a great Thunderbolt Ross. Jennifer Connely was a good Betty and Eric Bana was ok as Bruce Banner I really didnt accept him as a brainy type in the movie though but the emotional side he had to play was also good. The Ending was pretty sweet as well. Even though ive seen the workprint I will still go see the movie so I will give Ang Lee and the gang my ticket money but being a comic geek and fanboy at heart I wanted to see the movie. Harry and the gang have you forgot what you are were a sect of the world population that loves to know rumours we love the knowledge and we love seeing something first? I did not personally download these files and or support them being downloaded. I frown and consider it highly illegal to take this workprint and make a vcd and sell for profit. I would throw a book at those types A AICN a few years ago would of posted some reviews that were sent in but this place is no longer that AICN

  • June 9, 2003, 2:30 p.m. CST

    How dare you come here and bark at me like some little junkyard

    by Atticus Finch

    Well said, Moriarty.

  • June 9, 2003, 2:31 p.m. CST

    I confess to having a download of "Crouching Tiger" while it was

    by Tarl_Cabot

    And it was a crummy copy.I still bought the video, went to the theater and I'll get the DVD eventually. After having a movie on my computer I know I never want to watch another that way. I respect the medium of film and cannot enjoy it or properly review a film via PC presentation. I think The Hulk looks pretty good, btw.

  • June 9, 2003, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Jealousy......

    by Tripman5000

    Is what all you people who didn`t get the chance to see the print are feeling.You`re telling me you wouldn`t have watched it,given the chance? And no,we don`t all watch bootlegs on PC monitors-there are such a thing as bootleg dvds you know,where we can watch movies on things called TELEVISIONS!Just because we do that,doesn`t mean we don`t also go to the cinema.Are you people telling me you don`t tape songs off the radio before buying them?BULLSHIT! Why shouldn`t a movie be reviewed from a workprint?Surely y that IS news,compared to some of the crap you post here!The story is still the same,regardless of effects and,quite frankly,it`s SHITE!

  • June 9, 2003, 2:44 p.m. CST

    Will somebody please explain the Joe Hallenback thing to me?

    by Shabbadoo

    What happened there? I'm somewhat familiar with Hallenback, but I don't know what everyone's referring to in this talkback. Fill me in, damnit! I'm as curious as Harry's sexual preferences.

  • Okay, maybe it's not the SINGLE cause of this problem, but think about it. CABLE GUY was the first movie to offer 20 million to an actor. It was a stunt. So, said actor takes money and makes the movie, thus creating the "20 Million Dollar Club." Now many actors/actresses are in this club ... in fact, it's a salary everyone hopes to achieve in their careers. Now, movie studios have to raise the cost of ticket prices to pay for these goddam stupid movies! And what does that result in? Pirating, plain and simple. A film like Indiana Jones 4 is gonna cost the studio 80 million dollars before a single frame is shot!!! A good analogy is taxes on cigarettes. Increase them, and smuggling cigarettes skyrockets. At least, that's what happens in Canada. Now, we could also look at the studios themselves. How exactly are these prints getting out? Wouldn't it be easy to keep your eyes on them, especially with piracy as huge a problem as it is? The studios could keep a closer eye on the print, that's for sure. And finally, what about Moriarty's rant? Well, it's ridiculous. I feel for the studio, and I also feel for the people that are downloading movies. But seriously Mori, the entire site here is devoted to scoops and posting movie news and publishing them for the world to see. What do you think the makers of THE CORE thought when that early review appeared here? I bet a bad review here turns off more people to a film than people pirating the movie! I mean, think about it man. Today you have revealed a serious hypocritical side. Don't you realize what this site has done to studios and filmmakers? Sometimes it helps them if the review is positive, or if Harry has been invited to the set and wants to praise the film (or if he's friends with the filmmaker, like Rodriguez and that Spykids nonsense). But more often than not, this site can crush a movie and destroy a filmmaker's career. Moriarty dude, what the hell is wrong with you? I think your attitude and your work at AICN are at moral odds, dude. Now, all this being said, I think it's stupid for people to be watching these films and reading scripts before they're released. Just go watch the finished print when it's done. You'll enjoy it more.

  • June 9, 2003, 2:49 p.m. CST

    How about we put the poll on the main AICN page to good use...

    by shearerisgod

    and instead of the usual inane shit, ask this question: How many of you who have a copy of the Hulk workprint will still go see it in the cinema (thereby ensuring we do not kill the movies)? Might be kinda interesting, don't you think?

  • ::.Shame on you Brother.::

  • June 9, 2003, 2:53 p.m. CST

    slick move morty ; why i didn't download it

    by Lelon

    Because of this article even more people will download it. And coming from a site that routinely posts leaks that violate non-disclosure agreements, your rightous indignation comes off a little stale. Give it a rest. I downloaded the sample, but decided not to download the whole thing because I really couldn't be bothered. I'm just not that excited about this movie. I'll see it in theatres, and it'll probably be an OK comic book movie (better then matrix reloaded and daredevil hopefully). However, if this were X-Men 2, I'd be all over that shit. And ya know what, I'd STILL see X-Men 2 in theatres, TWICE. And the idea that you can't review a movie based on a workprint goes agaisnt hundreds of other articles you've posted on this site. GIVE IT A REST, you aren't fooling anyone.

  • June 9, 2003, 2:56 p.m. CST

    if there was no internet piracy...

    by nuprin

    ...I would actually have to PAY to see Jenna Jameson nail Kobe Tai! Can't have that! Seriously, though. Artists always get the short end of the stick in the corporate world anyways. That hasn't changed. Internet piracy just makes the sodomy of artists hurt that much worse.

  • I've seen the Hulk trailer and hope the finished product looks better, and that's all I have to say about the Green One until I see the movie...in a theater. Piracy - I've never seen a pirate print that didn't a) Fucking annoy me with its piss-poor quality and b)ultimately detract my enjoyment of the actual film. To the pirates - Why do you guys do it ? Why bother, you're not downloading or buying or trading in anything you're not going to want to replace when it comes out "officially". Who wants to watch a movie on a little computer screen ? Personally, I want to watch it first off in the theater, then on my big screen tv off of either my 4 head VCR OR my dvd. That, I figure is pretty much the norm for any movie geek. We all shell out hard earned dollars, pounds and yen for the best equipment we can afford, yet some wiseasses passing themselves off as geeks download workprints and submit badly written reviews to Harry trying to win his approval and gain notoriety. It'd be funny if it wasn't so spastic. I figure Moriarty slapped your tits like the bitches you are.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Forget AOTC, what about the Starship Troopers review?

    by jackmcgee2003

    Here are a few choice quotes (article ID 1721, in case the search engine gives you problems): "I contacted my spies, who have infiltrated every level of power in Hollywood, and they managed to get me a print of Starship Troopers in advance." "Now the print I have is a work copy, meaning it's got a lot of flaws (ie breaks between reels, unfinished effects, and an incomplete soundtrack), but it is an incredibly cool film." "When I screened the film, I got as many people I knew together to watch it. And even with this crappy copy with screwed up sound, they cheered, whooped and hollered!!! All as it should be!!" "Like I said, this print was incomplete. So if you are wondering why I don't mention the Basil Poledouris score, that's because in this BAD print sound wasn't it's best." I also liked the bits about "being bought off" and "succumbing to the evil that lies in LA" - five years is a long time I guess...

  • June 9, 2003, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Here's what REALLY sucks

    by Lelon

    people like moriarty and others in the talk back say things like "bittorrent is wrong" betraying the fact that they know absolutely nothing about technology. then the people at the MPAA or RIAA or whatever, who know even LESS about technology, sue bittorrent, even though it has nothing to do with piracy. Preach all you want, just shut up when it comes to stuff you know nothing about. thnx.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:07 p.m. CST

    bullshit

    by NapalmFuzZ

    first of all.. id like to state that.. for everyone that hastn actually seen this workprint.. but attacks it saying its "unfinished" or "poor quality".. shut the fuck up.. you know shit.. as far as it being unfinished.. the movie is all there.. and probably and then some.. so if anything.. what weve watched.. is an uncut directors cut.. that you bitching motherfuckers will never see.. and the video/audio qualit is just as good as any vhs tape.... and for teh dumbass that said.. watching movies on the computer screen is stupid... youre right.. thats why 9/10ths of people that download vcd/svcd .. DONT FUCKING DO IT! ever heard of a home theatre system? yeah.. theyre pretty popular things these days you fuckin dolt.. now.. as for the justification of downloading pirated copies of movies.. well. i for one.. could give a fuck less if its justified or not.. what have the MPAA ever done for me? do the people really deserve to be multi billionares for doing the easiest job in the world? so while im busting my ass every day to put food on the table.. these motherfuckers have never been through real life.. and are spoiled.. with their 12 cars.. and their multiple mansions... these people get to coast through life.. with whatever the fuck they want.. without having to work for it.. THAT i feel is the real injustice here.. do i honestly give a fuck. if a fatass rich star gets another yellow fucking humvee... FUCK NO!.. the fact is.. the movie industry is not loosing money because a handfull of people are downloading their movies... theyre loosing money cause theyre pumping out one shitty movie after another... once in a blue fuckin moon.. and sadly thats actually the case.. when a decent movie actually surfaces.. guess what.. 9/10 of people that download movies... go to the theatre to see it.. because theres nothing like experiencing a good movie at the theatre.. so.. want to fix the money problem in the movie industry.. START MAKING BETTER FUCKING MOVIES! stop making your sequels and remakes.. come up with an original fucking idea.. and not just slap this weeks popular rapper in a cliche piece of shit thats been made over and over millions of times.. piracy will never be stopped.. as long as theres dumbasses to try and implement ways to stop piracy.. there will be people to say fuck you and get around it.. so get over it.. but even if piracy did one day come to a complete hault(when i say piracy im not talking about stupid peer to peer file sharing.. or your bittorrents or whatever fucking gay method you use.. dont matter theyre all the bottom of the barrel)but even if it all comes to an end.. guess what.. you motherfuckers still arent getting my money.. no sir.. not till you make something worthy of it.. and unlike the coddled rich assholes that think they deserve multi million dollars for each film they make.. i work hard for my money.. and you dumb fuckers in hollywood.. for the most part.. dont deserve it.. so in summation.. hollywood/mpaa/whoever.. FUCK OFF! and on behalf of the staff and user base of vcdquality.. FUCK AICN!

  • June 9, 2003, 3:07 p.m. CST

    Mori, you there?

    by decypher44

    Well, unless he's done so while it took me 30 mins to read all the great posts, Mori has yet to respond to explain his hipocracy. Why not? Is it because he knows he is wrong? I am so sick of people acting holier than thou while their skeletons are out of the closet and in full frontal. Spiderman, AOTC, etc.... Have you no shame? HAVE YOU??? Hipocrite!

  • June 9, 2003, 3:09 p.m. CST

    This place is so fucking hypocritical

    by timmer33

    Right now Harry is going back to previous posts and deleting ALL his negative comments re: the Matrix Reloaded in Talkbacks. Go back and look for yourselves ... all his posts under the "Headgeek" userid are gone. Why? Why delete them? Moreover, I hear his Godzilla review (in which he praised the movie is gone). Whatsmore, it's obvious that Harry praises films that invite him to sets and sends him free shit, praises movies made by his friends (Spykids) and he trashes movies that don't give him shit and don't invite him to screenings. Add to all this Moriarty's STUPID post today and you've got a site with ZERO crediblity! I can't believe that people actually pay attention to these jokers here at AICN anymore. What hyprocrits. Moriarty criticizes people for downloading work prints of movies, and meanwhile they're posting "reviews" done during screenings when the films aren't even completed! Bad reviews here mean death for a film Moriarty! It's a bigger problem than pirating. You are such a hypocrit it's not funny, and Harry is so demented that he goes back to erase his posts and reviews so he doesn't appear too lame ... or perhaps he's being paid off by movie studios. Who knows. Whatever's going on, it means this site has zero credibility!

  • June 9, 2003, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Region Free DVD Player

    by MiserableRainGod

    I saw some posts about this up higher and figured I'd post a tip. Most of us geeks have a Playstation 2. Some of the cheat products (Game Shark, etc) let the PS2 work as a region-free DVD player, too. Now you can watch that Flash Gordon DVD from Brazil. I don't know if the game shark works, you'll have to look it up yourself!

  • So watching films on your PC is kosher because then you don't have to plunk down 17 of your hard-earned (yeah, right) bucks to watch a movie that didn't blow your doors off? Are you fucking insane? That's like opening a box of cereal at the grocery store and eating it before deciding whether or not you want to buy another one for your house. If the business that produces the goods isn't offering you free samples, you're not allowed to put your hand in the cookie jar. Whether or not it's wrong and you don't give a shit is a completely different matter, but don't you dare get self-righteous over something like this. And if comparing food and movies is like apples and oranges to you, well then film obviously doesn't necessitate robbery, does it? I'm not sure whether or not I agree entirely with Moriarty's comments, and I have to confess I'm a little taken aback by the asperity he displays towards some of the most hardcore fans of this site, but I'll mull it over. I'm not really insightful enough to spit into the ocean, anyway, but I can't stand these smug bastards who think that Hollywood is giving them the shaft by "making them watch a shitty movie." You weren't gonna do anything important with those two hours, anyway.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:21 p.m. CST

    Pardon me while I break your soap box...

    by Cyclone

    This has to be one of the most hypocritical posts that I have ever seen. Everyone knows that Harry reviewed AOTC months before it ever hit theaters, and the copy he views was far from being complete. I read an earlier post saying its not Harry's fault because he himself didnt steal the movie. Thats just bullshit, and has nothing to do with it. The fact is, is that he watched the movie and then wrote a review on it for the whole world to see. The only difference there is, is that he gushed of AOTC, while others may not have been so kind to The Hulk. I also find it laughable that Moriarty would throw out what he only knew would be a hotly debated post, and then be completely absent from the talkbacks. When you break it down, the staff of this site does the same thing the so called "pirates" do, but without the fancy website to hide behind. So next time you decide to point fingers, just remember that you have four pointing back at you. You've been called out on this one Moriarty, and the longer you dont post the more idiotic and hypocritical you look.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Copyright works. So does trading. Digital is great. The two will

    by Ted Striker

    It's time for a REAL reality check. The concept of copyright is itself artificial. Copyright is about money. Always has been. Yes, you get to keep control of your work for a certain amount of time, but then the idea is to turn that work over to the "public domain," so all can indulge in the work. However, because of the massive amounts of money involved here, these laws are being changed by lawmakers (who are being paid money from special interest groups backing these money loving institutions) to increase copyrights and trademarks INDEFINITELY. Sharing is a spiritual act. Stealing is not. But copyright infringement is NOT stealing. In this case it's watching a movie early, or downloading MP3's when you wouldn't buy the music in the first place. Would I really buy Don Ho's 'Tiny Bubbles' for $5 at a store? NO. Would I download it for free? Yes - it's a good song. Did I "steal" the song from someone -- no, I took a copy. Is anyone out ANY money? No. And that's a fact. What's going on with pirating movies is similar - the people that watch pirated stuff will probably pay money down the road to watch it later. That's a fact. Is Moriarity a hippocrat? Yes, without question. And those kids that remade Indiana Jones shot-for-shot are HUGE copyright violators, that could be brought to court -- but Harry and Spielberg himself are fine with it, and even flattered. Gosh, if a movie has been released in the theatres, it's already out there making money, and it WILL run its course to video, etc, and pull in millions. Should we be pissed that a tiny percentage of people who watch this thing on their PC and who will most likely pay money to watch it again in the theatre? No. I'm thankful for large studios forking over millions of dollars to make these great works (which is why I pay $9 to watch them) but I'm tired of them whining about a few people who aren't stealing anything. If you want to make a point about "bad press" this web site is what you should point your finger at... but again, we're talking about copyright and what a good thing it will be when people can make films like The Incredible Hulk on their own PC's if they want... If you REALLY want to talk about Supply and Demand, marketing, the economy, capitalists, etc, then you must realize what it is that motivates people to act: Greed. And that is a good thing. If someone has an opportunity to make a buck by making a movie and releasing, they'll do it. You can count on it. Despite whether or not their work is copyrighted. Get a grip folks, take a look at the Big Picture, and realize there is a HUGE market for good movies, and those people watch those movies in theatres or on TV. NOT on a PC.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Here's the deal

    by BlackBeltJones

    I went and saw the Matrix Reloaded 4 times (Thursday-Sunday). I then went home and downloaded it. Why? Because I wanted a copy I could watch occasionally until the DVD comes out which I will definitely buy the first day it is out. I did the same thing with the first X-Men along with several others. I deleted the films when I purchased the DVD. Did the studio lose money. That is debatable. But I did pay $36 at the door to see the movie plus a week's salary to eat from the concession stand, so I feel they got their due. And on top of it, they will get my $20 when the DVD comes out. The studios would cry piracy, but I think that in this case and others like it are fair use.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Why would someone download a a bootleg copy or workprint?

    by blah_blah_blah

    Because they can...

  • June 9, 2003, 3:30 p.m. CST

    great to hear, ebonic_plague

    by MiserableRainGod

    While I like your userID, ebonic_plague, I'm sorry that you'd rather give money to crime (your drug use) than to decent, hardworking, talented, educated, and creative people, TAXPAYING people. Enjoy that next bong hit. Crime is crime, and when you take money from the studios and ad agencies, you're taking it from young, talented artists, writers, construction workers, designers, editors (like me) etc. You can't justify that. You can try, you can bitch and moan, but the fact is that what we (yes, me too) do is wrong. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Isnt this the biggest year in Hollywood?

    by Bong

    Didnt Spiderman make tons of cash when it opened? or the Matrix Reloaded? Every weekend the top movies are making lots of money so I dont think these illegal downloads will ruin Hollywood. Even though I dont condone illegal downloads, I can understand why some people might do it. The fact is the price of an average ticket is now 10 dollars. If you take a family of say 4 or 5 thats 40-50 dollars spent on tickets. Add in the cost of food, the outrageous price of popcorn, soda etc and you spend too much money to see one freakin movie. All the while our money goes to fill the pockets of movie stars, directors, and screenwriters. Its great hearing people who make millions complain when they feel they might lose a little. Wheres the sympathy for average people who have to line up the money to see the films? You think movie people are the only people who work hard? What about those people who work 14-16 hours a day to feed their families and who make minimum wage? You think they can afford to spend 100 damn dollars in one night? All the while your Jim Carrey or Ang Lee might make millions and millions. This is the same w/ the music industry. For years and years all the artists and music moguls were getting filthy rich selling cds that cost 2-3 dollars to make for $15. So now when their industry declined by a few percentage points and they lose a little money they whine and complain.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:37 p.m. CST

    Mori? Still quiet?

    by decypher44

    Or are you all busy deleting old reviews and TB posts? You all know damn well that if the reviews were good, you wouldn't say squat. You would say "Ari and Ang and Stan are gods. From what we hear from you reviewers that this is pure magic!". But no, you get to hear the truth. Hulk is lame. This movie is terrible. The story is weak. And BTW, anyone who has seen the official trailers and the commercial tie-ins, knows how horrible HULK looks (cgi). I have heard it from everyone. He looks AWFUL!!! So, sorry if I don't feel shamed by you and the rest of Aint It Hippocritcal News. And I DON'T EVEN DOWNLOAD MOVIES (too many fakes - gave up a long time ago)

  • June 9, 2003, 3:38 p.m. CST

    I'm afraid I have to agree with all the others on this talkback,

    by CoolDan989

    And this isn't the only instance. All the other instances of hypocrisy that everyone on this talkback has well pointed out also apply. And have you completley forgotten about the time you guys ILLEGALLY dug up Oscar nominations before February and got sued? And besides the infamous Godzilla review(s), remember when Harry said he loved Jar Jar Binks in his Phantom Menace review and then said he hated Jar Jar Binks in his Attack of the Clones review? And when Harry said he loved the X2 trailer and then said he didn't? And when Harry ALWAYS says "Man In Suit" over and over again every Godzilla story yet always deletes talkback posts that repeat something over and over again? I've known Harry has done all this and is now trying to cover it all up for a long time now. Yes, I've known Harry is a classic hypocrite, but haven't held it against him, because that's just who some people are, and I've kept in mind that most people who work for this site are not hypocrites, and I thought you were one of them. But now I'm beginning to think I was wrong. And what really bugs me is you guys lash out at or delete talkback posts that complain about you or this site's hypocrisy, and almost always ban the users responsible. And I'm expecting that after today, a lot us on this talkback will be banned and deleted, maybe even including me, and/or this entire news story will be deleted to cover up the disastrous response by the talkbackers that wasn't what you were prepared for. That will probably happen, and I'll have just about reached my limit with this site. I may get banned and never come back, or I'll just leave for good with no banning, unless you guys really take a long, hard look at yourselves and how you're running this site.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:39 p.m. CST

    sheba6086...

    by Lord_Soth

    I have never seen any LOTR movies in the theater, just on computer (once/movie). In the opposite I readed the book 3 times in the last decade...

  • June 9, 2003, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Rolling stone....

    by ANGELS-EGG

  • June 9, 2003, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Hulk piraters are the sexiest tomboy beanpoles on the planet

    by Big Helium Dan

    Sorry, but things are getting heated, so it was needed. That rhymed.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Rolling stone....

    by ANGELS-EGG

    .....Type smf on kazaa...it could be gone now though as Kazaa is shite. I will prob get banned now but I dont care...byebye!

  • June 9, 2003, 3:53 p.m. CST

    a lil hypocracy.... just a lil

    by iamarayya

    Hey Harry, how much buisness $$$ have movies lost due to your pre-release spoilers and you bad reviews of these movies. If someone who was not decided on a movie, -say a small indi-movie dependant on big box office to raise a film makers status- and they read YOUR review and you trashed it, how much audience will that movie loose cause of yours, and other bad reviews of movies. When the critics trash a movie how much does a movie suff eh? And I download movies AND go see them at the Movies cause after I see a movie I liked (say Reloaded or X2) i wanna see it again, so I download it, watch it , then when the DVD comes out rent it o buy it cause DVD are 100 times better than downloads and no one can dispute that, the surround sound and res out shines downloads. has an one said what percentage the profits get cut? I see downloading as copying from a friend or group of friends, and besides, didnt VCRs kill video, tape recorded kill cassettes, You cannot download a theater experince. And Harry you suck cause you report all kinds of scoops on movies saying they suck against the wishes of film makes and that proably cuts into their profits (due to low interest) way more than downloads. Ask your readers how many movies you have dissed resulting in theme not seeing it, as oppossed to them downloading? If you got a bootleg script or full print of Star Wars 3 would you keep your trap shut until the general press reviews, no way, you would watch and just because you get it for free from some production lacky and we download it does not make you or any other critic superior.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:55 p.m. CST

    MISERABLERAINGOD...you make me laugh

    by Cannonball

    QUOTE "Harry is INNOCENT! I had to think about this for a while, because I originally said to myself, "Harry was wrong to do that...this whole website breaks the law!" But as I was writing my post I realized it doesn't. Moriarty has every right to preach to us (I presume), because AICN DOESN'T (normally) break copyright law." Hmm...sounds like you were having some serious moral issues with Harry's LAWBREAKING METHODS. Oh but now you're saying "I don't know what he does with the scripts and I don't care." What are you schizophrenic? AND WHAT PART OF "RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY IS A FEDERAL CRIME" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? That bullshit about "I assume he isn't breaking the law because he isn't in trouble with the law" is the just complete nonsense. If I had my own website and told everyone that I smoked 10 pounds of weed per day I doubt I'd have the DEA breathing down my neck. In this country you still need a little thing called evidence to prosecute someone. Stupid Bastard.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:58 p.m. CST

    maybe I was wrong...

    by MiserableRainGod

    ...when I said that they never violate copyright laws when working on this site. You've all been here longer than me, and you remember these great examples of Moriarty and Harry talking about getting bootlegs and going to Kazaa. I can't refute that, and won't try. BUT, I still think the infamous AOTC viewing was perfectly legal, regardless of the positivity of the review. I'll bet many of the script reviews are legal as well...from what I understand, scripts are handed around like business cards in Hollywood, and very few are Top Secret. Most of the reviews/stories that go up at this site are gotten through honest reporting/human sources, just like regular journalism. My other point, that it's total bullshit to justify breaking copyright laws, I still stand behind. I don't care what industries you like/don't like, or who has more money than you. Just because Speilberg has more money than me doesn't make it OK for me to take money out of his pocket. When I do it, I know I'm being a prick and I'm keeping some cash out of the system. Most of the people in this talkback, though, delude themselves into thinking that they're superheroes themselves. They're all self- righteous, "I'm sticking it to the man!" That's bullshit...you're getting something you want for free when you should be paying, and that the end of the story. If you're gonna do it, at least be honest about it, about what you're doing and the crime you're committing, because otherwise you're belittling all the people you're stealing from.

  • June 9, 2003, 4 p.m. CST

    Where is the retort from Mori?

    by BlackBeltJones

    I am curious how Mori will defend his hypocrisy.

  • June 9, 2003, 4:04 p.m. CST

    Everyone should look at themselves...

    by ScottGant

    A lot of people here should look at yourselves instead of the 12 year old excuse of "well, so and so did it". It's wrong to download movies. I don't want to hear how it's the industry who is at fault for lax security. That's not an excuse for downloading it. Also because Harry or someone else might get access to something (by the way, it's his JOB...he's a professional reviewer, like it or not) doesn't mean that everyone else has the right. Even if Harry downloads movies illegally, it's still not right for YOU to. John Wayne Gacy used to get guys to come home with him, then he would kill them and bury them in his crawlspace. How come people don't use "well, Gacy did it, why can't I?" Same logic. And yes, if I passed an ATM that spewed out a 100 dollar bill, I would return it to the bank. It's not mine. I didn't earn it. Why should I keep it? Is the world that cynical? Have we become that dishonest? No excuse. No excuse like "well, it's the banks fault for not having better security". You can't justify it. It's wrong, you don't deserve it and you should bring it back. What happened to just being a nice person and being decent for a change?

  • June 9, 2003, 4:08 p.m. CST

    I'm not sure, It could be a pig, or maybe it's a man.... I used

    by Kumo-Shujinkou

    Whether or not I support P2P, I just can't believe the spanking we all got. Thanks Dad!

  • June 9, 2003, 4:21 p.m. CST

    I hear ya M buddy!

    by Pellis-Man

    Too damn right!! Wat kind of a moron do u hav 2 be to wanna watch a not completed movie, that is out in under 2 DAMN WEEKS btw, and therefore ruin it for yourself when u see it on the big screen. And then to go and spout shit all over da net that has no validity and mite ruin the chances of a sequel if this puppy under performs at the box office. DAMN u twats ruining it for the rest of us!

  • June 9, 2003, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Canonball

    by MiserableRainGod

    Screw you, dude. Why do you have to get nasty about it? Prove to me that they're lawbreaking! Prove to me that the scripts Mori reviews are stolen. I'm not saying that they are or that they're not..I hope Mori makes an appearance to clear it up. If they steal things, I don't care. I've stolen this shit. I've smoked weed. However, I know what I'm doing when I do it...I know who I'm hurting and the laws that I'm breaking. I don't want assholes like you stealing shit and then saying that they're doing society a favor when they do so. If Moriarty has done some illegal shit in the past, then he has no right to preach to us, as I said in my above post. BUT, I'm betting a most of this site, at least nowadadys, is legal. I can't be sure, not until Moriarty or Harry makes an appearance, but that's what I'm guessing. And, incidentally, if you started a website where you say you smoke a lot of pot, it'd be boring and woulndn't get famous, so no one would care. Harry, on the other hand, is famous. The evidence against him is all right here, in this site's news stories, for anyone who wants it. As for your rambling about "receiving stolen property...blah blah blah federal crime"....brother, every law has nuances, and I don't know the nuances of that law. I expect you don't, either. Did they receive things in the mail unasked for? Do they return them? Was a legal representative of the studio giving it to them, even though he did not have authority from the studio to do so? It all can affect the placement of blame. I look again to the recent Harry Potter book review (not on AICN), where a reporter got his hands on a stolen copy, reviewed it (yes, positively), and returned it. No crime. Maybe Harry does things legally and maybe not, but let him friggin tell us himself. Ass.

  • June 9, 2003, 4:23 p.m. CST

    Shame on everyone

    by ProfessorChaos

    What the hell? On all the boards I'm on, and all the people on my AIM buddy list, not a single one told me Hulk had leaked. Not that I would have downloaded it anyway because bittorrent is too damn slow with the upload speed higher than the download speed and the total murder of your bandwidth by using it, making it almost impossible to view a web page while using it, bootlegs suck, my hard drive is too full, AND I already spent $22 on advance tickets so I want to enjoy my $22 to the fullest. The point is, I hate being the last person to know about big things like this. Yeah, that's kinda silly, I know. And shame squared on everyone that downloaded this garbage.

  • I don't bootleg. Not since the days of cassette tapes, anyway. However, I really am surprised by this Mori rant. I mean, he seems like a really smart guy. Doesn't he realize that stolen scripts or unauthorized set pictures, which are posted here with some regularity, result in unfair prejudgement of a film? If AICN was concerned about folks not giving a fair shake to movies based on glimpses of unfinished product, wouldn't they just shut down the site and find some other way to make a living? I mean we regularly see links to leaked trailer downloads or publicity stills or unauthorized internal reports. Why is a leaked rough cut different than any of those? Pirating, to me, is selling something you got for free. By the way, if pirating is so bad, why are films like Sinbad, Treasure Planet, and Pirates of the Carribean trying to portray these folks as heroes?

  • June 9, 2003, 4:29 p.m. CST

    ebonic_plague

    by MiserableRainGod

    Thanks for writing an intelligent post back to me, something Canonball was apparently unable to do. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I know that this stuff is changing society and the way all this stuff works, but I don't that gives us the right to break the law. Just because now we have technology that makes breaking the easy doesn't make it right. As a writer, I'd be very upset if my stuff was pirated, because that's my money. Yes, the publishing company took a gamble on me, and now I'd sell less books because someone got a PDF. That isn't fair - the guy with the PDF gets what he wants for free, and I'm out the money I've earned. Yes I do it, but I can't defend it.

  • June 9, 2003, 4:31 p.m. CST

    So?

    by ScottGant

    Stan Gable wrote:"Harry is a professional movie reviewer?? Really, what publication has one of Harry's reviews appeared in?" Did you read what I said? Why focus on this little part? Ok, Harry isn't a professional. So what? That's not the jist of my post. My post was to ment for people to look at themselves and judge themselves...learn to be honest, learn that stealing no matter what the circumstances are is wrong. That was my post. Why would you try to deflect and go off on this inane tangent of "if Harry is a professional or not?" Who cares? Ok, I was wrong in calling someone who makes they're living reviewing movies and running a movie web site a professional critic. Better? Still doesn't justify taking something that doesn't belong to you. I don't care if so-and-so does it. I don't care if Harry and Mori used to do it. I don't care. Don't worry what others are doing...worry about what YOU are doing. Be honest, be a nice person.

  • June 9, 2003, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Screw you Moriaty, and the Hypocritical High Horse your ass rode

    by Schmiggy JK

    This article of yours absolutely disgusts me. Less forget the whole question of morality/legality for a moment. This site has probably done more damage in the past few years to movies then any piracy or other mediums of journalism have. Yet you can tell the "pirates" of the world to be ashmed of themselves, and remind how they are fucking up the industry. Fuck you! Sure this site has also had great positive effect on many movies, no questions there, and so has piracy. As mentioned earlier, put up a poll, ask how many people downloaded reloaded early, and AOTC, and see who still saw it in the theaters, how many times, and who bought it on dvd... Dont try bullshiting people into to think 90% of the geeks who get this movie, arent still going to see the movie in the theater, or buy the dvd, or rent it, etc. You know its bullshit. Bootleg vcds sold on the corners of new york streets, ya, maybe some dick who buys that wont go see it, but try to put this on the fanboys/ubergeeks who get you all your advertising $$, who buy MULTIPLE copies of films, see them MULTIPLE times in theaters, and rave to every single one of their friends and family to go see the film. I saw two towers twice in theater... got the dvd screener later that week, which holds me over the dvd's are out, which odds are, I will buy BOTH, for sure the extended version. I also too my whole family, and my friends on the 2nd occasion. When ATOC came out, a copy was in progress when i went to see the 12am showing. I saw it 3 times that week, after that, bout the dvd for myself, and one for my brother. A similiar scenario for Reloaded... So fuck off. Is it illegal, no shit, obviously. But try to tell me I dont have a questionable moral right to download films im going to see in theaters, buy the dvds of, etc. If you do, I will ask you to question your moral right to comment on the bootleg ATOC, the STOLEN/LEAKED scripts, etc. Dont pigeon hole all of us. Any friends i pass material to and from, all hold a similiar stance. Also, how is reviewing a prerelease/pirated movie and thus forming opinions in peoples minds any different from people watching/downloading a prerelease movie and determining if they will go see it/buy it any fucking different. IT IS NOT! Clearly these "hulk reviews" must have had some negativity to them, and not just from the unfinished effects, as moriaty felt the need to come out, and shame us, and try to do some damage control, before negative press spread, and kiss Universals ass. Which in turn, is probably gonna send more people out to download it, as you have only added fuel to the fire. Good going. The people are the ultimate judge of the worth of a certain medium. And if its a good movie, downloaded or not, people are still going to see it. And if its shit, and word of mouth spreads, so be it, its nothing different then seeing a review the friday of, and not seeing that next movie the next week, because you read that it sucks shit. So get a grip Moriaty, watch where you point fingers... as its pointing back at this site also... Whether I will download this, or not, i dont know. If i do, i wont watch it till AFTER I see it in the theater, as to not RUIN THE EXPERIENCE. And if its shit after that... oh well, I will delete the sob, and recommend my friends not to see it.

  • June 9, 2003, 4:35 p.m. CST

    What everybody is failing to realize (Moriarty included) is that

    by kobain2k1

    I think the main problem with your statement, Moriarty, is that you failed to expose the point from the right angle... I think the point here is not wether it's morally wrong or not to download a movie; but to do it itself. Let me explain: The kind of movie you're getting, like The Hulk, is one of those movies that were made to be experienced in a movie theatre. Big Screen, monstuous sound and what not... by downloading this kind of crap (and I'm not refering to the movie itself, but to it's quality) all we do is to deprive ourselves of the movie itself. Why would you watch a movie in such an unfinished state? I take it if you took the time and effort to download the movie weeks before it opened in theatres; went through the pain of watching it unfinished, unclear, probably not in the best sound-image condition, that means you were kind of eager to watch it and couldn't wait... not, if you couldn't wait, that means you couldn't wait to enjoy it... wich is kind of a paradox... how could you enjoy it if you had to "suffer" through such miserable show?? I think the point isn't downloading screeners. The point is why should you spoil the movie you were so ferviently awaiting, just to see in in poor conditions a couple of weeks before you could enjoy it in full big-screen glory as it was intended in the same place?. I myself am not a big fan of movie downloading, I have downloaded once or twice, but mainly movies that are out of our theatre circuit, hence impossible to catch otherwise. a practice wich you are semi-obligued if you live in this country, due to closed-minded people that believe that only nationally produced cinema is worth of screen time. it's like this country is subtitle-paranoid. I don't get it.. anyway, this has become lack-of-foreign-movies rant, but that's another story :).

  • June 9, 2003, 4:41 p.m. CST

    What if they made a movie and everyone stole

    by Pubes

    they make the junk and you pay them to snort smoke and inhale the junk,so they raise the price of the junk cuz they know you're addicted and will pay any exuberant amount for a weekly fix, out of cash and going through withdrawl you stop paying for the junk and start growing your own, the dealer gets upset and tries to burn your crops bomb your country or put you in jail when all of a sudden tired of the high prices and low potency of the junk everyone in the world begins growing their own junk with better seeds,the dealer begins to cut costs and tries to stay afloat to maintain whatever junk following he has left,the dealer once on top of the food chain is now as worthless as the junk he once peddled for triple the price and profit and the world's a better place cause everyone's high off their own supply... stop paying 80 grand at film school so you can beg to work for them, food and housing would be free if you built your own house and grew your own food,instead of spending 7.50 a week at the movies split the two week total of matrix reloaded amongst yourselves buy a video camera some editing equipment teach yourself and entertain each other for free, the way the world was meant to be.

  • June 9, 2003, 4:43 p.m. CST

    This is just stupid

    by RANDOM PROCESS

    I don't understand why everyone is so upset by these reviews. Everyone knows that its not the complete version, even the ones that wrote the reviews. And lets not forget what made this site so popular in the first place: Spies going into those test screenings and sending reviews of movies that are not ready to be seen yet. I'm sure everyone at those screenings have to sign agreements for not posting reviews of the unfinished product on the net. Doing that is just as illegal as downloading the movie from the internet.

  • June 9, 2003, 4:50 p.m. CST

    what if...

    by bloomingtownie

    moriarty. I'm just wondering, let's say it was someone for universal with some hidden agenda who did leak the work print....hoping to help create more internet buzz or whatever. There've been some asinine attempts at things like that in the past, and its entirely possible. Would that make this travesty you speak of still just as wrong? Anyone with a serious appreciation for this film will want to see it on the big screen and properly anyway, regardless of even final cut/finished effects. Now let's say I had the Hulk work-print, and it never got released to P2P or kazaa or whatever. And I sent in to AICN, a review of a near final print. Don't you think there's been more than a few "reviews" that have been based on a "pirated" copy? I mean it seems the majority of the time you being able to report early screening reviews is violating disclosure agreements, which is not a huge step from copyright violation. I just can't imagine that whether the work-print is proliferated online should mark the difference between 'acceptable' and a disgusting moral violation of an artists rights.

  • June 9, 2003, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Madness!

    by ZombieChrist

    Now there was a great band. McW really kicked up a shitstorm with his self-righteous stance on this sticky issue. I know he's already received a drubbing, but I've just got to ask: Mori, have you ever burned a copyrighted CD for someone? Ever received one? Have you ever smoked pot? Did you ever drink when you were underage? Ever speed? Morals aside, one could make a decent argument for the practicality of the laws that restrict behavior like underage drinking and speeding. But the only way laws will work is to face reality and construct laws that deal with it. People speed a lot. New cars can be pretty safely operated even by the large percent of poor drivers out there at speeds in excess of most legal limits. That's one of the reasons why the double-nickle was stupid and got dropped. File sharing presents a new reality that has to be addressed by new laws. I am at odds with ripping off the artists I like. I've argued this point with my housemate many times, and we never get to a point where I'm satisfied with his defense of file sharing. But while I'm on the fence, I do it. The thing is, I've bought maybe five CDs in my life. I just don't have the kind of bread necessary to spend $100 a month on CDs. Now that I have the ability to get this music for free, my music library has expanded -- and so has my mind. Ultimately the artist is working to express herself. Thanks to file sharing she is expressing herself to a lot more people than ever before. If she isn't becoming Madonna-rich, well, cry me a river. If you are lucky enough to put food on your table and pay the rent from producing your art, you're doing a lot better than I am. This IS a tricky situation, but Moriarty blasting all movie-downloaders is ridiculous and hypocritcal. And another thing: are all these people we're ripping off "artists"? Is Moriarty's script for MK3 going to be art? Or is it craft, designed to entertain and generate income? And finally, to all you people who think this site sucks so much: why visit, why talkback? (P.S. the server absolutely sucks -- in terms of load-times this is by far the worst site I visit on the web. Please, please fix it!)

  • June 9, 2003, 4:53 p.m. CST

    Here are some other Moriarity Highlights

    by roboslut

    Here is Mori on the Real Cancun, the stink bomb of a movie that managed to recoup about $50 bucks in the box-office: "New Line

  • June 9, 2003, 4:53 p.m. CST

    goodbye, good luck

    by MiserableRainGod

    Ebonic_Plague - I forgot to mention before that my ID isn't from Dirk Gently, it's from Hitchiker's Guide. Hell, it may be in Dirk Gently, I never read 'em. To everyone else, I'm out for the night...Hopefully I'll be at a screening of Hulk later. Don't forget - Downloading shit that you didn't pay for (including unauthorized home versions regardless of how much you spent in the theatre) is clearly illegal. What goes on at this site is only POSSIBLY ILLEGAL. I don't care if it is or not, I'll still read/post here. I tried to point out the differences, but I leave it up to Harry and Moriarty to appear and defend themselves. I'd like to know what they have to say. If you don't like me or any of the opinions I gave, well boo hoo for me. Have a nice night, see you after Hulk.

  • June 9, 2003, 4:55 p.m. CST

    ebonic plague

    by trkane

    ebonic plague had it right when he said: adapt! you can't fight progress. if the film industry is truly concerned about this, they should follow the model that apple.com has created - good quality, easy to execute, LEGAL downloads. people will pay, i think apple has proved that. i prefer a big-ass movie screen, but if you put a good quality print online legally, people WILL pay to see it at home. we have to learn from history - the railroad companies lobbied to block the construction of highways way back when, whereas they should have INVESTED in them. stuff that in your crotch and stroke it!

  • June 9, 2003, 4:57 p.m. CST

    Talk about kicking a hornets nest...

    by earthworm

    Right, now the mood of the visitors to this site has been so spectacularly misjudged, there's a lot of us waiting for some sort of response. You challenged people to reply, they have, some for, some against, and there's been enough issues raised here to warrant one. Clocks ticking...

  • Several points have already been brought up with that I'd just like to say that I agree with. One, as regular moviegoers, we do not get to see every movie at these advance screenings that you guys always get to goto, so if we were given the opportunity to see something in advance we would take it without hesitation. Two, getting the movie early does make you feel more powerful than the rest of humantiy, and it gives you something to brag about to your friends. Three, this whole argument seems kind of hypocritical seeing as how this site always prints early reviews of just about everything, why should Hulk be any different? I'm not saying if piracy is right or wrong, I just know that if I was offered a chance to see any movie 2 weeks in advance I would definitely take it.

  • June 9, 2003, 5:32 p.m. CST

    So in other words, Harry=jealous

    by MyNameDoesn'tFit

    Sorry you didn't get there first, Har.

  • June 9, 2003, 5:36 p.m. CST

    FAN BOYS & GEEKS SPREAD THE WORD !

    by peterparker

    HYPOCRIT!!! AINC has made its stake on the Internet by either supporting or spitting Blasphemy on POTENTIAL blockbusters way before the movie even hits the theaters. The Fact is that FAN BOYS-GEEKS-FILE SWAPPERS-AINC LOBBISTS who view pre release copies of movies have a tremendous voice. The word of mouth that is spread by pre viewers of movies can influence people who would not have normally been interested in a specific genre of movie to actually go see it. THE PROBLEM is not all about pre-viewing material IT

  • June 9, 2003, 5:43 p.m. CST

    Moriarty, you're an ass-tassel

    by Nickelpig

    If it wasn't for leaked information, stolen scripts, and shady backroom viewings, Aint it Cool News would not exist. According to your rant, reviewing anything less than a finished product is somehow unethical. And yet, day after day, you judge films based on unfinished scripts, test-screenings, casting decisions, publicity photos, and the like. If your beloved Hulk tanks, it's not because of file-sharing. 1> I've seen the trailers, and it looks weak. 2> The comic book adaptation has been done to death recently, the market is saturated. 3> The Hulk probably wasn't the edgiest, most intriguing character to film in the first place. Right or wrong, file-sharing doesn't affect ticket sales all that much. Only a small percentage of the population posesses the technology to download such massive files in a timely manner. And those people are more than likely 1> excited fans who will see the film anyway, or 2> university students who probably wouldn't waste money to see it in the first place. I don't know, maybe your pink thong underwear is riding a little high today, Mo. I'm sure you didn't mean anything by your hissy-fit. But if you did, I don't wanna see any more reviews for films until after opening day.

  • June 9, 2003, 5:44 p.m. CST

    This must be a joke....

    by Peter Venkman

    You've gotta be kidding me. This is like Motley Crue doing a Public Service Annoucement telling kids not to do drugs.

  • June 9, 2003, 5:46 p.m. CST

    wanting the old Moriarity back!

    by Silver Shamrock

    The one that wasn't all full of himself... I guess before he wrote those glowing reviews of The Real Cancun, The Phantom Matrix, and that embarassing self-important Star Wars Circle Jerk.. No one is as important as they think they are.

  • June 9, 2003, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Moriarty......SMASH

    by Weathered262

    Hell Yeah, Moriarty! You Tell 'Em!

  • June 9, 2003, 5:48 p.m. CST

    That's it! I've had it with this fucking site!

    by retrocrush

    Good lord! How fucking hypocritical can you get? AICN has made a living off reviewing material received based on illegal means. No need to repeat it all again here. This site is has just turned into an even worse pile of shit than ever. I love coming by for the gossip, but this shameless grandstanding is the icing on the cake. I'm giving all my web attention to CHUD in the future. Harry, please get serious medical attention, or you will die in 3 years.

  • June 9, 2003, 5:56 p.m. CST

    A few points to consider, regardless of their importance

    by Ribbons

    Had these reviews been filled with unequivocal praise, I doubt that Moriarty would have pulled out his soapbox to give you bootleggers a lecture. However, he seems to be emotionally invested in the success of MARVEL and big-budget films for his own personal reasons. Had this debacle occurred before he had begun writing scripts for Revolution Studios and were the movie a completely original superhero property brought to the screen from some anonymous filmmaker's mind (yeah, I know, but this is hypothetical), I doubt there would be much, if any, response towards it. On the other hand, I'd like you all to consider your argument against Moriarty's associate Harry, who ran a review of a rough copy of AotC last year. ONE: you all knew he was going to see it again once it came out in theaters. TWO: the legitimacy of it's being stolen is questionable. After looking at the fate of this HULK bootleg, I'm sure whoever had the resources to sneak a copy of Attack of the Clones away from Lucasfilm would have found something less altruistic to do with it than screen the damn thing for Harry Knowles and then disappear. Most of you mocked Knowles for thinking he'd stumbled onto a secret last year, claiming that the two men who showed him Ep.II were employees of 20th Century FOX who had duped the poor sap. Whether or not these two points have any bearing on your arguments is something I can't discern, but I thought that it might help.

  • June 9, 2003, 5:59 p.m. CST

    OOOOH I`M SO DISAPOITED WITH FANDOM!!!

    by chien_sale

    Give me a break! Moriarty, you`re waisting your time defending rich folks, dude! First, you guys at AintiitcoolNews are no saints. Seconds, Hulk will do well.

  • June 9, 2003, 6 p.m. CST

    Dissing people reviewing the Workprint

    by FunkyFlyChicken

    I usually don't even bother to post here on these message boards, but i want to ASK MORIARITY A FEW QUESTIONS... I don't even need to go into the whole "justified or not" argument, I can beat Moriarity at his own game without even going there... Here goes... 1. So, it's ok for your "spies" to get friends/family to gain them access to preview/workprint screenings, and then go AGAINST a verbal agreement to NOT release info, then come here and post away about it? Come on. You are putting your foot in your mouth, and imposing a double-standard. How do you know that everyone who sends you reviews of "yet to be released" movies are all 100% "legal and legit"? 2. You post reviews of workprints, so why not post these reviews? Just because you don't agree with how they went about seeing the movie, doesn't make their REVIEW any more/less relevant. As long as they discussed the film INTELLIGENTLY, and reviewed it AS a Workprint, then why not post it? To me, it's still a valid review. As for the whole "justify it" issue, all I'm going to say is this - Why should only certain people have access to preview screenings? Why should only certain people be able to then share their opinions BEFORE a movie is released, thereby influincing decisions/opinions? Harry and crew influence a lot of people with their opinions, and they see these movies before they are released. Why shouldn't EVERYONE have that right? I download movies on occasion. But, I also SUPPORT GOOD MOVIES by also going to the theaters (often multiple times per movie) to enjoy it in it's full glory. I have a medical condition that makes it IMPOSSIBLE for me to sit for 2 hours straight, without interruption. So it was nice to see MATRIX RELOADED in the theater, and then come home and watch it again, being able to pause it when I'd get sick, rewind when I couldn't hear, and etc. Granted, not a lot of people download and THEN buy what they like. That is a big problem. But take Music and the radio - you can record songs off the radio and listen to them. You can record shows off of TV and watch them. The biggest problem is that the Internet has given people a chance to see what Rocks and what SUCKS, BEFORE they drop their money. No more of that "over glorified demo" crap that shows only the "best" of the games. Now we can check it all out before dropping loads of cash. Same with music and movies. But I do think that people need to start going out and BUYING the games they download and enjoy. Start BUYING tickets to see the movies that they download and enjoy. For the obvious economic reasons, but also because I believe it then leaves "internet trading" in a more "acceptable" light... But, how else can people rebel PEACEFULLY against a capitalist system? Warez is that revolution, be it games, movies, or whatever. Sure, some people do it for different reasons. Some take advantage of it, and don't care about "rebelling" or making a statement, or even supporting the industry. some are just thefts - and that is ALWAYS going to exist. So why waste so much time and energy bitching and whining about it? It's not going away, no one is ever going to 100% agree on the whole "morality" issue, and like I said - it doesn't make anyone's OPINION of the product any more/less valid. Period.

  • June 9, 2003, 6 p.m. CST

    The end of piracy = the end of Ain't it Cool News

    by Kenton

    If Moriarty is serious about this, then he -- and this site -- should be prepared to stop accepting reports, tips, scripts, etc. from people who have come across the information dishonestly. Guess what: without these people, there would be no Ain't it Cool News. If anything, this site has encouraged pirates and bootleggers by reviewing workprints and scripts and revealing photos from closed sets, etc! long before these things were supposed to be made public. So the above folks take yourlead, send in a review of the Hulk workprint, and get lambasted for it. Yeah, that's fair. For a site that has based its reputation on getting access to insider information by any means necessary, this has got to be one of the most laughable postings ever.

  • June 9, 2003, 6:02 p.m. CST

    All I can say is

    by hector

    Mori and Harry are Marvel marks. Thats fair enough, so am I, they've put together a great string of movies. The problem is, they know these guys, they like them, they respect them. They arent objective. I guaran'damn'tee you that if this was 'Batman and Robin 2' or 'AI, to the Max' not only would Mori not be screaming, he probably would run the reviews. As everyone has noted, like it or not, this is what AICN is all about no? Now you know how the makers of about 200 movies that you guys have got ahold of and panned feel right now.

  • June 9, 2003, 6:06 p.m. CST

    Mor please

    by whorehees

    You are a dick faced hippocrite.

  • June 9, 2003, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Why people download, and about the films

    by FunkyFlyChicken

    Why does it matter why people need to download a film? I happen to be involved with one of the groups. Many of the people/servers that I chat with download the movies because they are huge fans, and just want to be able to see it any way possible. Many are too busy with work or school, live out of the country where a movie may not be showing, or whatnot. But most of the SERIOUS traders also go to the movies to PAY AND WATCH on the big screen. Most of us who download movies do NOT think of it as a "replacement" for theater or DVD viewings. Many of us buy the DVD's when they are released, and also go to the theater to support the GOOD films. But, what most of the groups were CREATED to do, was to give access to all of the movies out, so people could avoid PAYING TO SEE CRAP. So movies that completely and utterly sucked wouldn't get "huge opening weekends" because of "slick marketing" to lure unsuspecting moviegoers in. We look at it as a rebellion, of sorts. Against Hollywood and it's routine "crap" that it tries to shove down our throats. But, we wholeheartedly support the gems that come out. Another postive for trading films, is that a ton of INDEPENDENT films get traded around. Films that would never be seen any other way. This can help an indie film, which may not have even HAD a theatrical release, to prosper on DVD thanks to word of mouth. Just a few additional thoughts...

  • June 9, 2003, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Rhyme and Reason

    by Scripteaser

    I've seen the Hulk download. It is bad quality, and the fx are definately not finished. What is there is intriguing and with tightening it could be good - not amazing, X2 is certainly better as an adaptions, but certainly a 7/10 and far less disappointing than Matrix: Unloaded. I am one of those people who like to catch movies everyway possible including seeing them 'early' - to me it's the same if I read a draft script - I'm still going to see it at the cinema, buy the DVD, and support the artists. Really what this is about is the Internet's freedom of transfer, and freedom of information. Mori is making a mistake in attacking this freedom since it has helped enormously in the building of AICN and the Internet as a whole. Studios are far from niave about the Internet, geeks, or the power of word of mouth. Bottom line is that if the film is a big green turkey it won't track big numbers regardless. Everyone and their wife downloaded Spiderman, and LOTR, yet still manage to turn up and hugely enjoy themselves at the movies. Movies are about community. The Internet is about community. To attack both is strange and disturbing, especially given the incestuous relationship AICN has to spies, bootleggers, screenings, and inside information... I'm sure that protectionism is at work here - both for the advertisers, and for those that want to a make a buck from the industry. It smacks of the Poacher turning Gamekeeper to me guyz.

  • June 9, 2003, 6:12 p.m. CST

    Rape the fucker

    by Pubes

    tie harry up by his ass cheeks and ram him slowly with a rusty old vibrator

  • June 9, 2003, 6:12 p.m. CST

    Defending an industry that makes maybe 1 good movie a year...utt

    by DeFiCaToR

    Ooh the poor studios not making enough money boo hoo hoo, f*ck em. I read this talkback and it makes me realize why the film industry thrives as it does. Because people like any old shit. AotC was shite, Reloaded whilst better was ultimately shite, Hulk will probably be just as shite. Piracy is only wrong because it stops film studios getting more money. The film and dvd industries have grown massively with piracy having little or no effect, so don't give me any of that old bollocks. If piracy stops studios making more of this shite and makes them start thinking about what they are making then carry on downloading and if it doesn't who gives a shit, most of the films I've seen in the last 5 years have been awful, there's maybe 10 that are worth any money to go and see...now how do I get this Kaaza thing working?

  • June 9, 2003, 6:19 p.m. CST

    I download movies.

    by Piddle

    But only after I see it in theatres. And chances are, if I see it in theatres, then download the movie, I'll buy the DVD. I think if they charge me $15 (canadian) to see it in theatres (more if I go more then once), I think I deserve to have a s**t quality version of it before I spend another $30 on the DVD. Call me a thief, hell, call me whatever you want. But that's how I feel, and I'll keep doing it until I feel that the ammount of money I spend on one film deserves a 6 month wait until a DVD release.

  • June 9, 2003, 6:22 p.m. CST

    Seriously, people who download movies are not as special as thei

    by SexyBeast

    I hate people who download movies then try to pass it off in casual conversation like they are part of the CIA and have all the inside information on everything. Like they'll say "did you see Reloaded? Oh thats right its not out in theaters yet, well I know where to download stuff off the internet" I'm like good for you skippy, now make sure you super size my fries and be quick about it.

  • June 9, 2003, 6:23 p.m. CST

    Moriarty: Return Of The McWeeny

    by Syd Mead

    Seriously, I can't believe you would pick on a stupid fan who sends YOU a post? Then have the balls to complain that it took 2,000 words to get to the point? THAT SOUNDS YOU MCWEENY!!!!!!!!!!! You write drivel for days and days which has become your retarded trade mark. Don't ask me why anyone liked your shit? People on the talkbacks are far too polite to say to you "shut the fuck up." What's your beef? Maybe your girlfriend dumped ya and your having a bad hair day? Maybe you ate a 4 week old Krispy Kreme donut found under your shit mobile's faux leather seats? Maybe your playing with all the knobs and pretty lights at Geek Headquarters? Maybe your trying to impress some suits to get your shit sold? You forgotten where you got your start nerd. AICN POSTED ILLEGAL PICTURES OF THE ALIENS IN STAR SHIP TROOPER back in 1997. Not smart either dickweed. But it's a fact. You got busted and thrown off the Ranch. It's a fact. Have you forgotten? No, I don't think you have. I think you have become an industry sell out. Which is fine. But since you now snort coke in a West Hollywood parking lot to get your scripts sold maybe you can fuck off now. Go write for cheap porn. Because you are no longer a critic if you ever were one. Go back to the video store job and impress yourself. If I ever see "Written by Drew McWeeny" in the credits I know hell has truly frozen over.

  • June 9, 2003, 6:23 p.m. CST

    re: rumbloid

    by TheStrawDog

    You're absolutely right, I neglected to defend that aspect of my argument. Though you should realize that most people working on Hollywood productions make a good amount, especially if they're in a union. Being a grip on a major studio set is by no means a minimum wage job, I think I saw in some article somewhere that the average mic-operator/soundman makes around 85k a year (I know this is vague, Im just telling you what I remember). My point about the comparison between the film industry and the music industry was that the cash flow seems a little more unfairly divided in the record business. Considering how much both the producer and any engineers make off the record (how many points etc) in comparison to the talent. Compare how much the label makes to all of the above. Also, if you're talking about blue-collar film crew jobs, well, if a movie tanks because of "godawful piracy leaks" I would think it's far less likely to sully their careers than it would the actors, writers, producers, director, etc.

  • June 9, 2003, 6:27 p.m. CST

    My two cents

    by Big Helium Dan

    Although I think that downloading movies is overall wrong, I must admit that I am guilty of downloading the crappy Fantastic Four movie, honestly though, where else would I find it now or in the near future

  • June 9, 2003, 6:36 p.m. CST

    The pirate copy is steaming turd!!!

    by Romero&Oogliet

    I have seen the pirate copy of HULK and M is right.The effects are rubbish!The Hulk's hair look's like a fucking GINGER WIG!!! and ILM have opted to portray him as some deaf and dumb weight lifter.However it does feature the always quality Bill Bixby which is one saving grace.But wait!here is also a scoop for Harry,THOR also makes an appearance.Now i'm off to watch my pirate copy of Punisher featuring Dolph Lundgren.

  • June 9, 2003, 6:37 p.m. CST

    Well Clutch embargo....

    by ANGELS-EGG

    ...I saw the nutorious 'workprint' of the film at my friends workplace. He screened it to us on a projection tv. Now unlike how many are describing it the quality isnt that terrible only the fx and tightening of some scenes were in need of work (hulk has no pants in some scenes many are unrendered passes). My view was based on the story,peformances and accuracy to its source not the fx alone.I very much doubt they can change the flow of the plot or the story.I liked the film but its got A LOT going against it.People generally regard LOTR as unfilmable but I reckon THIS is a comic adaption they should leave well alone....It takes itself far too seriously yet its a corny movie really but angs created it 'arty'. The hulk does not make a appearance until 45 minutes in (before that its just a flow of flashbacks and sloow buildup)okay its called character building but its just way its acted and written thats well...dull.After the premise thats when the film shifts into action.Imagine something like 'in the bedroom' then some hulking great cgi creation goes nuts all over the place. It sounds like I hated it but theres a lot to like. The hulkdog sequence is pretty brutal and the san francisco battle is phenomenal. This film is a hard one...you gotta go with the flow of buying a anger repressed drama involving a giant cgi green dude. CTHD is a LOT better than this....good film though...honest!

  • June 9, 2003, 6:40 p.m. CST

    OMG!!

    by Kampbell-Kid

    Not to change the subject but I heard a workprint of HULK is on the net for download!! Mori is right but were also all guilty when it comes to "SPOILERS". Some said it before this site wouldn't exist if we didn't have things to spoil us. It's why were movie geeks or should I say SPOILERED brats. :)

  • June 9, 2003, 6:52 p.m. CST

    Jesus Christ...

    by Uga

    This site is run by hypocritical dumbasses. Ain't It Cool is legendary for running reviews written by people who freely admitted to signing contracts, contracts that specifically forbid them to critique the film on the Internet. And now you're bitching about somebody else "ruining the experience" of a film? This site has single-handedly poisoned the process of correctly testing a film prior to its release.

  • June 9, 2003, 7:15 p.m. CST

    Dumb and Dumberer has a new subtitle...

    by ikidunot

    'When Harry met Moriarty' - I can't believe no-one else thought of that!

  • June 9, 2003, 7:23 p.m. CST

    One Hour Photo Workprint

    by DougieZero

    Didn't you review the One Hour Photo workprint? I swear you claimed "I can't tell anyone how I saw this"... You put your review up the same week the workprint started speading like fire.

  • June 9, 2003, 7:33 p.m. CST

    yup

    by gsnrub

    Um... wasn't long time contributor Joe Hallenbeck arrested a year or so ago for pirating films? Isn't AICN in Marvel's back pocket? Would this even be an article if they weren't? And good god Moriarty, didn't you once advertise your own script on this site through harry? Morals and ethics and bears, oh my! I'm not even gonna mention Harry's little AOTC thing last year...

  • June 9, 2003, 7:34 p.m. CST

    yup

    by gsnrub

    Um... wasn't long time contributor Joe Hallenbeck arrested a year or so ago for pirating films? Isn't AICN in Marvel's back pocket? Would this even be an article if they weren't? And good god Moriarty, didn't you once advertise your own script on this site through harry? Morals and ethics and bears, oh my! I'm not even gonna mention Harry's little AOTC thing last year...

  • June 9, 2003, 7:38 p.m. CST

    Moriarty is also hurting what he's trying to save by this post

    by Spacesheik

    I'm afraid Moriarty, a writer I usually support in this views, is helping destroy what he was trying to save. Many people here and a lot out there in the mainstream were not under the impression that the HULK print was out there. We were not under the impression that AICN or others had received dozens of reviews slamming the film. We actually thought HULK was gonna be a summer smash. All Moriarty did was open the door fo all who saw the film to come and exploit whatever misgivings they had with the work-in-progress print they saw (with or without effects). This whole thing is very sad and I seriously think the mainstream media will pick this story (like it did the leakeed SUPERMAN script) and this will hurt box office. I can see articles in papers goin "internet reviewer says HULK workpring dry, a mess." This whole thing is very sad.

  • June 9, 2003, 7:41 p.m. CST

    did harry copy the AOTC workprint and give it to ten people.....

    by MovieStud

    its just a thought???

  • June 9, 2003, 7:54 p.m. CST

    A quick spelling Bee...

    by gogogodzilla

    M is for all the movies that Joe Hallenbeck sold as bootlegs and did time for. O is for the Oscar site you hacked. R is for ripping off George Lucas I is for insulting which this rant of yours is A is AOTC-which Harry boasted on national radio he saw a bootleg print of weeks early. R-is for recieving kickbacks from studios. Paid trips to sets=great reviews. T-is for the superman script you ripped before it was even filmed! Y is for You've got to be fucking kidding. What does that spell kids? It spells ZERO CREDIBILITY!!!!

  • June 9, 2003, 7:58 p.m. CST

    RE: One Hour Photo Workprint

    by DougieZero

    Nevermind... It was "Quint" that reviewed it.

  • June 9, 2003, 7:59 p.m. CST

    Well i must admit i do buy bootlegs on canal street but.

    by jon-e-blaze

    95% of the time i take my ass to the theatre.Besides kazza movies come out blank except for the porn.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:05 p.m. CST

    One More...

    by DougieZero

    I remember listening to the Howard Stern Show one day and Drew called up to talk about the Superman script when Anthony Hopkins was on. He was bragging that he had it and he was from AICN.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:06 p.m. CST

    He is just mad...

    by whorehees

    Harry raped him because there were no vampires of werewolves in the hulk.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:08 p.m. CST

    Mori, so you say you're disappointed with fandom? I've been disa

    by Blue Devil

    These are the same people who sit in theaters with their camcorders and tape films. These are the same people who are so obsessed with this crap, that they're willing to break the law just to see a movie. These are also the same people that think their intellectual enough to discuss film, when they're just armchair geeks who don't know shit about movies- just commerce.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:09 p.m. CST

    Well id hate to be another person that says hippocrite but...

    by cockknocker

    its true. This site is an abomination. Sites like Dark Horizons give us up to date news on time without the bullshit. Generally AICN misses most of the big stories now it seems. Add to this the feeble site design which is long due an overhaul, the "editorial staff" whos egos have inflated beyond the size of harry's wasteband and now this. Its clear the only reason to visit is to read the endlessly entertaining talkbacks and see who can write the best insult to these sellouts. Im old enough to know the difference between right and wrong withouth Moriarties help...

  • June 9, 2003, 8:16 p.m. CST

    the REAL point... well, one of them

    by milpheyyu

    is the fact that people are actually basing reviews on this workprint. those are the idiots that need to stop. i'd watch it knowing that a) it wasn't finished and b) that i would later go see it in the theaters. i haven't seen it yet, however, and frankly i don't want to see a half-finished movie. how is that appealing? apparently the people downloading this don't realize that they are about as entitled to review the workprint as to review the movie based on the trailer. idiots.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:26 p.m. CST

    My 2 cents....

    by misterWINKIE

    I agree 100% with the talkbackers who state and remember when Harry viewed AOTC and Starship Troopers photos. I can't imagine, like many others have stated, how this web site and others would thrive if it wasn't for leaked information or bootleg films. As much as I would like to continue coming to this site, I feel this BS right here kills it. People preaching to me about what is social right or wrong. Stating their opinion, but yet, not wanting to hear others by censoring them. Father geek and Mori out of this whole AICN crew have been the only two to censor or ban people the most for what they think or their rants. I loathe this site at times and feel it is very childish in the way certain DICKS run it. Cry me a river. For crying out loud, If someone happens to view a rough cut on their computer and happens to enjoy, good chance that said viewer will end up shelling out 8-10 dollars to view it on the big screen. If not, then that viewer saved money and didn't end up wasting money on a shit movie and the ultimately funding it so a sequel could get made. If this site wants integrity, then they should stop preacing to us and insulting us and pointing the finger. Viewing movies before release will NOT kill the industry. If that was the case then how come Hulk will gross about 60 mill opening weekend. That's my prediction and I assume it will be more but as you can see, this has little to no effect on it what so ever. And for someone to step up and cry to me about how he feels we have let him down and we are hurting him....shame on YOU! Shame on you for trying to tell me what to do with my life and free time. We are all guilty of our own moral and social unacceptable wrong doings, so to cry about someone watching a movie within their own home, is the least of this societies problems...Fuck this site...and all its BS. Harry at times can be just as bad, but for the moment, he's all I can take. This Mcweeny dillweed kills this site and as far as I am concerned I have no reason to come here anymore. As others have said "The talkbackers made/fund this site." Open your eyes jackass, we gave you your job! We gave you your perks. Enjoy them. For someday, you'll be a nobody. Your 15 minutes of fame is well past due. Goodbye fellow talkbackers and now I must venture off to a more reliable, non judmental site such as dark horizons or CHUD. FUCKERS!

  • June 9, 2003, 8:27 p.m. CST

    Holy shitstorm batman!

    by EvilNight

    This has to be one of the best talkbacks this site has ever had. Of course, the first thing the feds are going to find when they raid my house is my legit DVD collection, 179 and growing daily. See, I have no problems giving hollywood my money, when they earn it. $20 for a DVD is a fair price IMO ($20 for a CD on the other hand is highway robbery). Downloading bootlegs is just a good way to make sure you don't end up buying a shit movie. Hulk I think I'll take my chances on in the theater (looks promising), and if it's good enough to own, I'll download the bootleg to tide me over until the DVD comes out. Trust me, NOBODY is watching these on computer screens. Lots of us are watching them on hacked Xboxes hooked to 61' widescreen television sets with 5.1 surround sound in DVD 480p resolution, though. :P As for putting us all in jail, well... jailing 43 million people (many of whom are outside the US and therefore immune to it's bullshit copyright laws) is going to bankrupt the usa just keeping us fed in prison, to say nothing of building the prisons in the first place. The only real solution is copyright and intellectual property law reform (and the patent system could use a good asskicking, as well.) The legal system will get around to it, 50 years late, as usual. What I'm waiting for are pictures made outside hollywood and released on the net. Net-rebroadcasts of any shows and media you can think of... this technology is ten times more dangerous and powerful than ever the printing press was. Computers are FAST approaching the point where they can tear down the entry barrier to any form of artistic expression for prices that joe popcorn can easily afford. Either way, it's going to be one interesting ride. Mori, I'd expect a post from you after Hulk's opening weekend, let us know if you really think this working print did a damn thing to hurt it's box office. I'll bet you anything, if it's a good movie, that the bootlegd BOOSTED the box office. Free advertisement works wonders, but only if you've got a good product. Unfortunately for Hollywood, they usually don't, but that's hardly our fault, and it's not our responsibility to foot the bill for their failures either.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:27 p.m. CST

    HARRY is a PIRATE too!!!! Moriarty, You Idiot!!! It was a few mo

    by aprilsdish

    Moriarty, You Idiot!!! It was a few months ago that Harry BRAGGED that he got his hands on the script after AVRI said to him words to the effect "no way in hell." DOESN'T ANYONE REMEMBER HARRY'S REVIEW OF THE HULK SCRIPT... WITH THE BLESSING OF THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AVRI (whats his name). I think this is just somekind of a set-up. No-one can be as STUPID as Moriarty.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:29 p.m. CST

    THE FUNNIEST TALKBACK EVER!

    by Magic Milkmaid

    Bar none.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:31 p.m. CST

    You make me sick

    by FezMonkey

    You pirates make me sick to my stomach. "It's not theft, it's copyright infringement", "They don't deserve their money anyway", "It's just a loophole; it deserves to be exploited", "Everyone does it", "AICN gets to see movies before they're out, and thousands of us should too!". Are you listening to yourselves? You sound like bad guys in Saturday morning cartoons. You explain away what you do as either a)common, therefore making it okay (just like murder, right?), b)The fault of the victim (In this case the movie studios), or c)Who cares. Get this into your heads. When you download a movie, it's just like you walked into the video store, put the video in your pocket, and left without paying. Then you talk about how "everyone does it", or how it's the vidoe store's fault for not having an adequate security system. I agree with Moriarty. Shame on you.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:31 p.m. CST

    Good stuff Mori

    by Archduke_Chocula

    as you know i donloaded, i'm more levele headed then the fools who "reviewed it" my mom, my brother, and I watched it and we all just compared what was looking good, what needed work (*cough* split screen *cough*) (no that dosn't count as me rviewing it, I was just talking about it) and how its not completed were not going to dismiss and leave, were going to see that movie. even in prelimenary stages Bana is kick ass........ I'm seeing this movie in theatres again and again and again and again and aga......

  • June 9, 2003, 8:37 p.m. CST

    Shame on YOU Mori. What a fraud you are.

    by joeblowe

    Where are your ethics, obviously you have lost them. First your paid-for Real Cancun review, and now this? You seem to only defend movies that YOU have connections to. It's fine and dandy when Harry gets his spies to steal scripts and workprints for him, and then copies those and shows them to other people... As long as it's not a movie you have connections to, is that it? You should be fired from this site.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:39 p.m. CST

    AINC has also posted numerous workprint reviews.

    by joeblowe

    Fraud Fraud Fraud. CHUD is looking better day by day.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:43 p.m. CST

    DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SCRIPT AND BOOTLEG

    by Mad Skills

    If you idiot pirates who try to evade accountability for your actions can't see the difference between Harry, a professional film critic, previewing a script with the blessings of the film's writer in order to share his feedback, and watching a movie like Hulk, X-Men, or Star Wars that depend at least 50% upon special effects and sound for their entertainment value, then Hollywood movie-making really is in danger. I hadn't previewed bootlegs until recently, when someone wanted me to see X-Men 2 (I had already seen it in theaters 3 times). The quality of the Centropy release was so horrible I turned it off. Washed out colors, distorted sound, and a slightly-tilted screen made me cringe. Ang Lee should be able to publicly flog, tar and feather the person who released this film in a work-print. All you pirates are doing is cheating yourselves. If you can't see how seeing it in the theater is worth waiting for, then you're all a bunch of idiots anyway, so read the point at the top of the post again just to confirm that you're wrong.

  • June 9, 2003, 8:49 p.m. CST

    A CLOSING STATEMENT

    by Cannonball

    I just scanned this enourmous and insanely funny talkback and found that at least 95% of the posts tend to be some variation on "Fuck you Moriarty you hypocritical melodramatic piece of shit." I think it's safe to say that pretty much everyone here is finally fed up with Harry and Mori's shit. If they don't post a rebuttal it will be a shame...because right now they're both getting reamed worse than a dead raped deer.

  • "Shame on you. All of you. Not everyone reading this, of course, since most of you are sane, normal, law-abiding citizens. I

  • June 9, 2003, 8:55 p.m. CST

    What a bad joke this is

    by ed_wood_jr

    This entire site is based on information gleaned before the release of a given film. While I certainly think that it's wrong to attempt to profit off of a downloaded film, I think it's perfectly acceptable to have it for personal viewing. If this site is going to take the stance that advance information based on examination of an unfinished work is wrong...then fine. Let's start by never seeing the word "SPOILER!" here again. Let's only see articles about films that have had an official theatrical release. Let's not speak of "Episode III" or "Revolutions" until we've all had the opportunity to watch them. Where's that new "Lawrence Of Arabia" talkback, then?

  • June 9, 2003, 8:56 p.m. CST

    GrandoCalrissian, you hit the nail on the fucking head my friend

    by TheAllSeeingEye

    While I myself haven

  • I am blown away that moriarty considers himslef ot be a real critic. Writing for your friends' website doesnt give you any authority asto to who can have an opinion. Anyone who has taken the time to skim over your self important, pretensious style of prose certainlyt deserves to put their thoughts out there.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Mori, Mori, Mori

    by originalskoobx

    Well, I think I have now seen it all. Of course 50 other talkbackers have already brought up the point of the AOTC review. I am sure you have said "shame on you" to Harry. Let me ask you this Mori. Do you own any bootlegs? Do you or Harry own the Corman Fantastic Four? Is it ok to remake a movie as children, without permission, then have it aired at a half-assed film festival? Where people paid admission fees? Is it ok to rip a leaked movie script to shreds? Is this statement part of your's and Harry's plea agreement with the Feds concerning a little Skywalker Ranch incident? Mori, you have not answered anyone, nor do I really expect you to. I will admit that I do own a few bootlegs. I have an excellent copy of the Two Towers on VCD. Will I buy the DVD when it comes out? Absolutely. Compared to DVD, the VCD quality sucks. I had Fellowship on VCD as well. Did I buy BOTH FUCKING versions of the flick on DVD. Yes, I did. Hollywood losing out? I don't think so. Last year, at the height of piracy, the music and movie industry had one of their most profitable years in HISTORY. While piracy may be wrong, it is a poor excuse for Hollywood to squeeze every last dime out of movie going citizens. How about this Hollywood? Release the whole directors cut of a movie at its initial release. Do this so Idon't have to buy 5 versions of T2. 3 Versions of Stargate. 4 versions of MIB. 2 versions of The Fast and the Furious. 2 versions of LOTR. Losing money?!?!!? Destroying Hollywood!?!?! BULLSHIT!!!! Mori, I think you are full of shit. Before you got your screenplay deal, you would have watched a pirated copy of any movie. Now I can understand your worries. Perhaps someone will get a hold of your script and tear it apart. MK3!?!?!! Brilliant fucking idea.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:15 p.m. CST

    Piracy = Best form of advertisement, and it's free.

    by joeblowe

    Good points originalskoobx. I fail to see how piracy is costing Hollywood any money, no one has ever proven that flicks would be making more cash if priacy was nonexistant. The facts are that priacy is the best form of advertisement... Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon got it's American rep from piracy. People pirated the flick from Asia, brought it here, and everyone started talking about it. Priates watch the film, and if they dislike it then it's not a film that deserves their money. If they enjoy it, then they will talk about it, and a huge buzz will eventually get glowing that will attract more people to the movie theatres then any other form of advertising would. Pirates would take their friends and familiesi to see moviesi n theatres which they know is good. They will see the movies in theatres for the quality and experience. Pirates are helping Hollywood, not hurting them.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:17 p.m. CST

    He's right, you suck

    by Vern

    To be frankly honest I don't give a rat's asshole about "the industry" and any damage that would theoretically be done to it by some nerd being stupid enough to watch a bad bootleg of an unfinished movie on his fucking computer screen. My problem is not with any moral or financial issue but with the simple disrespect this shows for actual movie watching. Just like you wouldn't use a little one speaker clock radio to listen to your scary clown rock or whatever garbagey worthless music you little fucks listen to these days, you shouldn't watch a movie on the fucking internet when the technology simply isn't there. I mean come on. Don't you want it to look like it hasn't been stuck up your ass and out your nose? Do you smash your meals with a hammer and then eat them bathroom floor? It's just common sense: if you like movies you don't watch shitty bootlegs of unfinished versions of them on your computer screen. Computer screens are meant for pornography only, not Ang Lee movies. There is no arguing on this point kids, it's time you started respecting the god damn Cinema.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:33 p.m. CST

    Thanks Moriarty! I'm on my way to Kazaa right now!

    by GrubStreeter

    How dare you lecture us, you dink.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Hate them multiplexes

    by VaderSabre

    Coming from the typical American dysfunctional family and weened on the cinema of Lucas and Spielberg before setting out to indulge in most of cinema's glory,it brings a smile to my face to see your words above. There isn't the magic of waiting outside LOEWS theater all afternoon to finally see something the way it was back in '81. And you new generation of geeks...weened on cathode tubes and Bill Gates, thanks for your fucking pissing and moaning about how shit doesn't look real. How many of you digital junkies know about what Dennis Muren actually does? None. Not one of you fucking aesthetically angst ridden bitches knows what your are talking about. If you do, and you have credentials, if you are a photographer or a sci fi wizard, call me on it. If not, then you cunts that have the audacity to gripe about the visuals before the story should get the fuck out of Dodge and go back into your moma's womb and come out again, this time done right.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:41 p.m. CST

    Here's an idea-

    by gogogodzilla

    I've thought about this a great deal over the last hour-and I offer this very real suggestion. Mori, I think it's time you and Harry open yourselves to a complete audit of your business affairs. You want to thrown down the gauntlet with a rant about the evils of bootlegs? Then open up AICN's doors and prove to the world that all the rumors about you and Harry receiving perks from studios/bootleg viewings, etc...are untrue. If you don't want to offer that-then do everyone a major favor and find a new crusade-because you don't have a frigging leg to stand on.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:46 p.m. CST

    Yous guys are the funny

    by Caea

    So people who DL the Hulk and watch it are bad, but when AICN gets a copy of AOTC that is good? How many scripts you guys get early? How many ilegal "scoops" are on this site every day? On top of all that, you guys are making money (though not much) off ad banners. Have big bowl of hypocricy this morning?

  • June 9, 2003, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Download THE HULK here! No games, no b.s. , the REAL THING. Stic

    by Hoak Kogan

    After searching for hours, I finally found the shit. Its the real thing, no viruses, no b.s. Okay!!! See for yourselves if the film is a piece of crap or truly worthy of your hard-earned dollars. Copy/ Paste The Link In Your Address Bar And Hit Enter! http://server22.freewebpage.org/hulk.htm Enjoy! :-)

  • June 9, 2003, 9:54 p.m. CST

    When I Think About Piracy

    by ktownman

    I think about the movies that would never come to a multiplex near me and have seen. City Of God one hell of a great movie if any of you get a chance and dont mind subtitles its one powerful movie. May and The Good Thief, Max, Irreversible, The Dancer Upstairs hey wait a sec these are all movies that were promoted on this site. You made me download these files Knowles *Falls To The Knees a la Heston Planet Of The Apes. DAMNNNNNNNNNNNN YOOOOOOOOOOOOU DAMNNN YOU KNOWLESSSSSS. GET YOUR PAWS off my P2P you damn dirty Moriaty.

  • June 9, 2003, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Hulk Coming June 27th

    by ktownman

    Forget about the gamma radiated monster lets go see Hulk Hogan Starring in his own movie the first one in almost 15 years. See Hulk with sidekick Corey Haim and Corey Feldman take there brand of justice to the streets of Austin Texas USA and evict some justice. Your ass is Grass Brotha and Harry you got a small family of mice in your beard brotha

  • June 9, 2003, 10:05 p.m. CST

    Hogan wasn't in it...

    by Magnus_Steele

    A friend of mine saw the WP and he confirmed that Hogan didn't play the Hulk. My friend also says that since it isn't one of the 10 commandments he'll download whatever the hell he wants. My friend is also a faggot who dreams of getting his asshole licked by dolphines in a spa of green jelly. Hulk can only be experienced on the big screen or on your home theatre.

  • June 9, 2003, 10:09 p.m. CST

    Was that some kind of April fools joke of a rant?

    by hogarthughes

    You have got to be kidding me!!!! Are you honestly expecting people to take you seriously on this one? I never write into talk-backs but I actually went and created an account just because I was so shocked at what you suggested here. I too work in the film business on the effects side. I too hate it when people are pissing on EFFECTS before they are finished. Are you are expecting us to take this rant of yours seriously when this whole web site has been built on the "Oh I saw it first..and this is what I saw..." Pa-LEASE! You can make all the arguments you want justifying how what you guys do here is OK and how people trading pirated work prints is SO VERY different. You think its fair for Harry to piss all over a film like Scooby Doo long before its been finished(And I agree it was crap)? The point is when there is a test screening of a film you are entering that theater with an agreement you will not go blast it all over the internet - good or bad. You think an execs in this industry condone you guys taking a film like Superman and ripping it to shreds before it has even been cast. Like it or not this website produces buzz on films. Good or bad it sways opinion. I just can not believe you have the balls to print that what you have over the years and then hypoctritically slam what the reviewers of these low quality work prints are doing. Just because you are writing some B-rate Hollywood movie does not give you the right to get on your soapbox and act like the internet police. I respect you reviews and usually respect your abitilty to stay fair and objective. Sorry though pal, you are like the Vegan that just got cought wearing leather boots on this one. What you wrote just now is SHOCKING and UNBELIEVABLE! NO SHAME ON YOU MORIARITY!

  • June 9, 2003, 10:13 p.m. CST

    What the studios should do...

    by Magnus_Steele

    Release their films on to the net knowingly however make them only the first 10 minutes of the movie then for the remainder running time have video footage of homosexual anal rape. That way people will start downloading and see that it is in fact the movie they're after only to find that it turns into a sick and perverted homo-erotic action adventure film of epic proportions.

  • June 9, 2003, 10:18 p.m. CST

    some instructions for the hulk movie download..

    by Hoak Kogan

    Well if you guys didn't notice the download link I posted to download "The Hulk": http://server22.freewebpage.org/hulk.htm After you download and follow the instructions in the read me, when it says "load the link", it means to load the file from the option in the software that says "load torrent file". That could get some people confused. Enjoy everyone! "Watcha you gonna do when you the HOAKster RUNS WILD ON YOU!"

  • June 9, 2003, 10:20 p.m. CST

    Whose been getting the business end of the cock here.....?

    by EGamb

    I'm not going to argue the pros and cons of file sharing and Internet piracy......as far as I'm concerned, that's a deadlocked issue.......but I cannot bring myself to feel sorry for an industry that's probably going to release the "Theatrical Version" DVD of the movie in time for Christmas.........followed by a "Director's Cut Special Edition" DVD of the movie with deleted scenes ( the same scenes they didn't put in the movie to trim the fucking film down to a paltry 90 min. just to squeeze more showings in the theatre ) five months later.....followed 10 years later by the Criterion Classics rereleased DVD featuring all new making of Hulk featurettes that they couldn't bother to include in the 2 previous DVD releases. Can anyone say "X Men 1.5" ? How many fucking copies of the Hulk will I wind up having after Universal decides to stop pimping it on every rack in Virgin Records or Sam Goody? George Lucas is holding back the first SW trilogy on DVD til Episode 3 comes out on DVD........who here is naive to think he'll sell the individual movies..........instead of one big overpriced 6 DVD gift set that'll run about $150-$200.........just in time for Christmas? Moriarity.....your treating these industry types like people running a community theater production who are putting on a charity performance for our benefit.......in reality they're grouping us all into marketing strategies and cross sectional demographics, dissecting us by age group, sex, etc. For every $8.00 a Kazaa user has screwed Universal out of by d-loading Hulk..........their studio accountants have figured out how to screw them out of $100. Do you have a point about file-sharing and Internet piracy? Yes..............is your point validated by canonizing the studio system or music industry..........? Industries which would have burned you and this site at the stake five years ago for your "spoiler" alerts and early reviews. Now that they've figured out that advance buzz on a film is beneficial......they're more than happy to cooperate with any 1st look photos of Hellboy or screenings they can throw at you. You're throwing the book at us Internet whores..........but you're getting into bed with the pimp.......

  • June 9, 2003, 10:23 p.m. CST

    Harry and Mori reading, watching or posting online reviews of ST

    by Commando Cody

    ...Thanks for proving it to the entire world in a clear and shining example. Your hypocritical column is TRULY a benchmark in the history of AICN columns -- one long to be remembered for the shit it tried to dispense. And Cannonball or someone above was dead right. You guys are getting so fucking royally reamed over your hypocritical stance it demands a reply from you guys. Or maybe not. It's actually fun to see you guys get some payback for the hypocrisy you too often take...

  • June 9, 2003, 10:28 p.m. CST

    Pot Meet Kettle....

    by KryptonsLastSon

    I thought AICN posted bootleg and workprint reviews all of the time including those of sneak previews and test audiences where the reviewer starts off with things like... "I signed a NDA but here goes..." Isn't that exactly the same thing? When did AICN suddenly go legit? Someone sucking the MPAAs ass this week? Sorry but I have to ask. Do you guys really not see the hypocrisy here? Off to CHUD and SupeHeroHype....

  • June 9, 2003, 10:33 p.m. CST

    By the Way..

    by KryptonsLastSon

    I'm not planning on downloading the film, but watching it in a theatre. I just don't see the point of watching it on a small video monitor. And I freely admit its a crime to download it, so when is AICN going to get raided?

  • June 9, 2003, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Hmm...did this topic get removed from the site?

    by "BadDates"Monkey

    I never get on talkback, but a line from Billy Madison comes to mind when I read this article..."Mr. Moriarty, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

  • June 9, 2003, 10:39 p.m. CST

    my "Review" that Mori blasted

    by BTreado

    excerpts from my email to AICN: "It was decent, but more like the first X-Men in that it took a long while to really get moving. The CGI on the workprint isn't done yet, especially in the scenes where the Hulk escapes from the military camp." -- "The effects of Hulk's face forming ice were cool, even when not 100% complete. Right now, even with the CGI not done, I thought that Hulk moved too unrealistically." -- "The movie seemed a little long, and could have done without a lot in the beginning. There wasn't enough action for my tastes, and nobody got killed." -- "Eric Bana did a really good job getting pissed off as Bruce Banner. Nick Nolte was very good as well, but it didn't seem a far cry from how he acted on tv when he got his DWI. Hopefully the final product imroves upon what I saw." I can tell him how the movie looks in my opinion of what I saw. Afterall, AICN's homepage had this: Gotta Scoop, a pic, a lead, the skinny? E-me at Harry@aintitcool.com on it, and I think that news on a big movie like The Hulk is cool news. His taking a crisism of the movie that I had, not of the special effects, but of the EXACT same camera angle as the Spiderman roof jumping scenes, complete with mid-air running and looking up at the camera, seemed very artificial and plagerized from Spiderman, and using it to incite riot here. I guess taking something from my mail, twisting it around to get more people to click the link and post on talkbacks is how Moriarty operates. Our posts are making him money. I don't even think I said that the movie sucked. It has a lot of potential, but effects ignored, the 24-style split screens and the slow build up and long gaps between action are what I didn't like. Hypocrite assholes ask for our opinions, and then tell me I don't know anything and that I am wrong for having an opinion on what I saw. AICN operates because of workprints, screeners and people with information on movies. So what that I am an ordinary guy, and not some Hollywood hotshot, paying for you to come watch the movie on my TV. You can blow it out your ass, and that's my honest opinion on that matter too.

  • June 9, 2003, 10:48 p.m. CST

    Watching The Hulk Right Now...

    by Hilbert

    Mori has been pissing me off quite a while now. So after I saw the download link from Hoak Kogan, I started watching it right now. So far I think Mori's views on the movie should be put in the trash can. I have so far been very impressed with the movie and the only downspot was the unreality of the hulk moving at times. Otherwise I so far give the movie a big thumbs up. If you guys want to download and see what you think of it, get it here: http://server22.freewebpage.org/hulk.htm | Credits To Hoak Kogan for posting the link finally.

  • June 9, 2003, 10:52 p.m. CST

    I don't think I've ever seen so much resentment for this website

    by Shabbadoo

    And the only talkback I've read so far in favor of Moriarty's cause is Vern, and really, does Vern count?

  • June 9, 2003, 10:52 p.m. CST

    Buried the fuck out of this didn't you!?!?!

    by originalskoobx

    Wow. Kind of hard to find this article. I suppose that by tomorrow you will say something like "I may go on vacation now. Rethink this internet movie reporting site. I am losing friends now. Perhaps this site is not worth the trouble." Mori, you are a chicken shit. You won't even reply to our arguements. Many of our points are valid, yet instead of answering us, you bury the link. Good job fucknut. You should be shamed, not us. What does Harry have to say about this? Is he against any type of pirated film? I tell you, this site used to be my favorite. It is really going downhill. No last episode of 24 review, no decent earthshattering news, no inside scoops. You know Mori, I used to think the Facer was an asshole. Now I see he may have been on to something.....

  • June 9, 2003, 10:57 p.m. CST

    HEY MORIARTY, I THINK YOU SHOULD POST A RESPONSE TO EVERYONE HER

    by timmer33

    Oh, and I love how you've buried this story in old news. You're probably wishing for it to go away real soon. Hey, are you writing a script right now for the same studio that produced HULK?

  • June 9, 2003, 11 p.m. CST

    Isn't it interesting that...

    by JohnnyTremaine

    ...only movies with bad buzz end up being talked about in debates like this--about piracy and the quality of the CGI--while movies riding on a wave of phenomenal word of mouth never encounter this? Nobody ever had this discussion about FINDING NEMO, X-MEN 2, or TWO TOWERS. That's because even terrible pieces of crap like 2 FAST 2 FURIOUS make most of their money in the first couple of weeks of release. If that's ruined by the onrush of negative fan reviews, audiences may stay away and the studios lose money. THAT'S what this is really all about. Not piracy, per se.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:01 p.m. CST

    no, shame on you...

    by ElGuapo

    jesus, M. when you take the moral high ground you really sound like a patronizing wanker. what, now that you're "working for the man", this is how you redeem yourself? does this give you some kind of water-cooler cache at revolution? of course it's not right. and maybe the reviews were badly written. and perhaps they speak from a position of ignorance. so what? they saw it early and they talked about it. there was a time you guys would've done exactly the same thing. where do you get off speaking to people like that?

  • June 9, 2003, 11:07 p.m. CST

    Piracy and the movie download

    by Hilbert

    You guys got to seriously stop sucking up to Mori saying you DON'T download pirated movies. Quite frankly he doesn't give a dam about those posts. Another thing is what makes Mori be able to download the movie and we can't? Is he a GODDESS? So if you are sitting your arse on that chair and not downloading the movie and you really want to.. stop being a dumba$$ and just download it. My friend on 56k is also downloading it. (how you ask.. he leaves the pc on over night and it will download and when he wakes up its done) Here's the link again: http://server22.freewebpage.org/hulk.htm | PS: I just finished watching the movie or the workprint. Quite honestly the movie had some ubelievable special effects I have never seen before. I think this movie may even top Spider-Man, I can't wait for the game either.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:10 p.m. CST

    I'm only disappointed that this t.b. is stretched too wide for m

    by slimetime

  • June 9, 2003, 11:24 p.m. CST

    what.. I am staying right here right now..!!

    by Hilbert

    GrandoCarIissian what the heck do you think you are doing. You just posted a link to the Ziotaki whatever the crap mofo junk trailer thread. I am staying right here. There is no "TALKBALK 2". Anyways I myself await Mori's reply. As for everyone else.. I recommend everyone to see the movie from the theaters: | http://www.THEHULK.com | or download it from: | http://server22.freewebpage.org/hulk.htm | ~ PEACE OUT

  • June 9, 2003, 11:29 p.m. CST

    Wordnazi NAILS the best idea EVER. Let's get McWeeny's MORTAL K

    by Commando Cody

    Gee, Mor, for taking such a ridiculous stance -- given that AICN completely OWES its existence to the notion of pirating material and reviewing it before it's officially released for public consumpion -- how would YOU like to see the shoe on the other foot? WordNazi is right. Let's all get Drew's MORTAL KOMBAT 3 script...read it...and post reviews online wherever we can. Then, for example, much like he did with J.J. Abrams and SUPERMAN (or Harry did with a workprint of AOTC) see how DREW likes having his work-in-progress evaluated for ALL THE WORLD to read about. See how HE likes having his writing work evalutated before a final polish. See what happens to HIS career when other studios start reading so-called "reviews" online of his work and start whispering amongst themselves, "You know, I heard through the grapevine that guy is really NOT a good writer. Maybe we shouldn't hire him for any other project." As I said, this rant was hypocrisy at its utmost...and trust me, payback could be a total bitch.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:37 p.m. CST

    Funny Shit

    by TLCGeneral Irwin

    This is the most entertaining the to happen in years on the internet. Last time Harry/AICN got blasted by the webmaster back in 2000, but this is between Harry/Mor/AICN and their fans, and the shit just hit it my friends. Let's see how long this empire lasts now.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:37 p.m. CST

    HYPOCRITE

    by POOPIEBUTT

    I can't fucking believe that you can rant at people for downloading movies and watching them. This site's foundation is built on picking up every scrap of info on films, legal or not. At least it was, now your fat asses are courted to private screenings like a rich daddy paying the high school quarterback to take the fatty to the prom (remember that embarassing Willard review, with Harry spooging over the film because Crispin was making googly eyes at him?). We will still buy tickets to see it on a kickass screen. SPiderman, AOTC, Xmen2, and Matrix Revolutions have all not had their box-office affected by downloading, and neither will Hulk. If Hulk fails to perform, it will be because of bad reviews, bad word of mouth, bad marketing, or just a shitty film being made. Fuck you Drew McWeeny-head. Are you just pissed that you won't be interviewed for the special edition DVD, like the abomination that was Jason X? You guys are no longer one of us, you have gone over to the dark side.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:39 p.m. CST

    Funny Shit - Spell Checked

    by TLCGeneral Irwin

    This is the most entertaining thing to happen in years on the internet. Last time Harry/AICN got blasted by the webmasters back in 2000, but this is between Harry/Mor/AICN and their fans, and the shit just hit it my friends. Let's see how long this empire lasts now.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:42 p.m. CST

    Oh oh i feel a major NUCLEAR BAN being called in!!!

    by jackburtonlives

    Even as i write this, Mori and Harry are calling in a major nuclear fission force ban! i can almost hear Mori shreiking orders at Harry: "FIND the Hulk Talkback! CTRL + A select all Talkbackers AND BAN ALL THE F****!!!". gonna be quiet around here for a while...

  • June 9, 2003, 11:47 p.m. CST

    WE've overlooked the goddamned funniest thing

    by Gheorghe Zamfir

    Mori is actually berating another reviewer for using his real name! LOL, only on the internet...

  • June 10, 2003, midnight CST

    Fine, I'll Post My Review Here

    by Savage Lucy

    I won't bother ripping into Moriarty about his new found sense of morals, the rest of you have done a tremendous job of that. I was one of the people who sent in a review of this work print. Most of my beefs were over the story and how godawful bad it is. Am I the only one who is sick of Marvel movies that completely thrash the history of the comics? After seeing the first Xmen movie, I felt like Singer had personally come to the funeral of my childhood and fistfucked the corpse. The Hulk has never been one of my favorite comics, but I'm sure the movie storyline will piss off more than a few people. Anyway, here's my review of the working print. Read it while you can, before St. Moriarty can delete it. Hey guys, I just watched a working print of The Hulk and thought I'd send you my thoughts. The only things noticeably missing from the print were an Mtv friendly soundtrack, a few special effects and sounds, and 99% of dialogue for the Hulk. He did say,

  • June 10, 2003, 12:06 a.m. CST

    Well, the people behind AICN obviously CARE about any of you....

    by ethandarkseid

    For I have emailed harry more than once for his take on the whole ridiculous practice of running pre-movie ads. Shame on mori and all his upper crust hollywood friends that prance around and make drivel while we are paying HIGH dollar for a movie and getting Pepsi ads shoved down our fucking thoats. I hate going to the movies now....I can't stand the sight of a volkswagen ad. So, WHAT the hell are movie theatres going to DO in order to attract ME into going to the movies??? I'll tell you what.....They will show me 10 MIN. of commercials, that's what. They will constantly avoid my emails and phone calls. They will get into arguements on the phone with me and smart off how "this is the way it is" when after 70 years commercials have never been shown before a movie. This is a farce and a slap in ALL of your faces. I condone downloading movies becuase you wanna know why? Because of the fact that you can watch it without the damn commercials. So that ends my rant. Harry nor mori or anyone else at AICN will care about me or any of you. Shame on Mori and Co. for avoiding such an issue.

  • June 10, 2003, 12:10 a.m. CST

    Hulk

    by PiRATE67

    I'm a big fan of the Hulk. I've seen the "working print" two times now and will probably see it a few more until June 20th. I especially liked the part where the CG isn't quite finished and his pants disappear into his ass. I like the Hulk and I like movies. The earliest that I can see either one of those, I WILL... by whatever means necessary! I don't care now much money a movie makes or doesn't--how does that affect my life? The only thing I care about is whether I see a movie or not, and the sooner the better and I don't owe anyone any excuses for what I do (movie critics, internet geeks, or others)!

  • June 10, 2003, 12:24 a.m. CST

    moriaty...you closed mind fool

    by SimpsonsQuoteMan

    look, you cant fight reality. the music and film industries are utterly changed now because, we, the people in charge of these pathetic, floundering and vastly overvalued industries, have decided that we

  • June 10, 2003, 12:29 a.m. CST

    don't ya just love it

    by caatwatch6

    I love it when people post then somehow their post seems to get "lost" and is moved down the list for nobody to see or just deleted all together. Blah Blah Blah workprint smorkprint. Who gives a rats ass. Someone got a little giddy and put it out too soon. Why are we being blamed for some studio jackass that released it? I mean it seems like Moriarty is blaming us for the release of said workprint. I don't remember breaking into the studio and stealing it nor did I d/l it. I don't want to d/l it as it is. I'll drag my ass to the theatre and see it when it comes out. Besides I agree with everyone on the AOTC issue where King Tubby got to see it before we did. Of course he made copies of it. I mean cmon. They do it then bitch to us about us doing it. LOL. Sad really. Moriarity GROW UP. Why is there NO reply from them (Harry & Mori)? Ohhh yea, cause they look like asses enough and don't want to add fuel to the fire. Burn Baby Burn!

  • June 10, 2003, 12:37 a.m. CST

    AINT IT SHAMEFUL

    by NERD FIGHT

    This is the most hypocritical thing I think I've ever seen on the internet. I've never joined in with the AICN Hating before, cause if Harry wanted to see Vampires and Werevolves in the Matrix Reloaded, then, so what, that's his opinion. But THIS is fucking so totally out of line it's unbelievable. The venomous, high horse language Moriarty used in his tirade makes his UTTER HYPOCRISY all the more cretinous. I'm pretty appalled. What if someone ripped into your unfinished Fortress 4 script (or whatever it is) the same way you ripped into that unfinished Superman script, causing the studios to freak out and endagering the writer's (your) career? Would that be OK??__________________The way I see it, after this you have three basic choices. 1. From now on, you live by what you preach. You DO NOT accept any reviews or information from any sources that may have infringed copyright in any way. Aint It Cool News becomes Aint It Legal News. But, at the same time, Aint It Old News. 2. YOU FUCKING APOLOGISE FOR THE HYPOCRITICAL AND INSULTING TIRADE YOU JUST SPEWED ONTO PEOPLE DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS THIS SITE. 3. You don't face the music at all and bury this whole issue like creepy wrongdoing cowardly hypocritical punks. Here is a hint - that last choice is the wrong choice. You have to answer for this Drew.

  • June 10, 2003, 12:38 a.m. CST

    Who's the pussy that moved the article to the bottom?

    by AlwaysThere

    AICN is a fucking joke. IGN Rejoice.

  • June 10, 2003, 12:47 a.m. CST

    It's simple- Mori is pulling a Metallica.

    by ZeroCorpse

    The guys here at AICN used to be the pirates themselves. Any of us long-time posters/readers KNOW that both Harry and Drew have reviewed bootlegs, OWN bootlegs (Harry has a TON of them, and you KNOW it Mori) and pass judgement on movies based on early work. While I'm no big fan of pirated movies (based mostly on the crap quality of them), I can say that Mori's change of heart is obvious. It's right in his article. He's working on something. He's putting something out. In other words, he's pulling a Metallica. YOU GOT WHERE YOU ARE because of bootlegs, early scripts, and work prints. You know damn well that's true. NOW that you're where you wanted to be- IN the business- You're suddenly turning it into some issue of great concern to you. Well, I'm sorry Drew, but Boo-fucking-hoo. What's good for you is good for other people, and you have no firm ground on this issue. Like Metallica, you gained success via bootlegs (although Metallica was the one allowing them to be made while you were the one viewing someone else's), and now that you're part of the scene, it's suddenly a crime. I agree- It sucks if these morons ruin the opening weekend of The Hulk, but you can't exclude yourself. You can't stand outside this like the "insider" you are, the guy on the DVD special features of Jason X, and pretend that you weren't exploiting this same market before you got where you are. It's cowardly, hypocritical, and beneath you. I don't agree with you a lot of the time, but I usually respect you. This time, you're preaching as if your shit doesn't stink, when it most assuredly did and does.

  • June 10, 2003, 12:57 a.m. CST

    By the way- That quote of Mori hinting for us to use P2P himself

    by ZeroCorpse

    Catch them in their lies.

  • June 10, 2003, 1:03 a.m. CST

    this is the funniest shit!!!!!

    by EGamb

    Mori writes, "Films like HULK cost an enormous amount of money, and if the film

  • June 10, 2003, 1:08 a.m. CST

    Well Mori, as that kid in Stand By Me said...

    by hogarth358

    You really screwed the pooch this time you morphadite. I don't know which is better-you getting your ass kicked for this stupid as hell piece of hypocritical crap, or the time you wrote about how Ebert had a big tit fetish. Thanks for an evening of laughs pallie.

  • June 10, 2003, 1:16 a.m. CST

    OK, Let's do the math.....

    by TheGr81SLASH

    If I go to a legitimate movie theater, I'll pay $7.50 for a ticket, another $3.00 to play arcade games (if I have to wait), $10.00 for a popcorn/soda combo pack, maybe $3.00 more for a small bag of candy, not to mention the damned long wait for the movie because you not only had to sit though trailers (which is cool) but I also had to sit through commercials and advertisements for TV show (which sucks, considering I can see them for free at home. I just choose to change the channel). All together, that comes out to $23.50 and the feeling that if the movie sucked, two hours of my life I'll never see again. Bootlegs: each film costs $5.00 a piece, so I buy two. Go into grocery store and buy soda and popcorn for $5.00 (add extra $5.00 if you gotta have some beer). Turn on TV and DVD/VCR(?) put in movie and kick back. Extra bonus- If you have something that needs to be done, turn off or pause movie. Total cost - $15 - 20 for all that. If you have a computer of course, a couple of days of downloading and coding, a couple of minutes of burning, and the time it takes to move the disc from computer to player. The last two sound good to me.

  • June 10, 2003, 1:17 a.m. CST

    Shame on ME? Shame on YOU, you hypocritical loser!

    by Asimov's Brain

    You know, I loved this site. But THIS...I really, truly didn't think that AICN or its staff had the ability to piss me off, but I feel like I've been slapped in the face. Coming here loyally, day after day, wondering "WHEN IN THE HELL ARE THEY GOING TO POST SOMETHING NEW?!" but coming nevertheless. Now Moriarty, the respectable one, comes down on US, the people paying his fucking rent right now by using this inane talkback?? I'm sad to say that I am through with AICN (aside from monitoring how that self-important hypocrite trys to safe face on this fiasco, or DOESN'T, as the case may be) It boggles the mind that Moriarty could post this, bury the article, not respond...oh wait, HE'S A THIEF TOO!! Ridiculous. There's many good sites out there, with REAL news and REAL reviews, that actually post more than once a week. www.darkhorizons.com, www.chud.com, wwww.comingsoon.com, etc. etc. Let's support them, and leave Moriarty to his precious film career.

  • June 10, 2003, 1:18 a.m. CST

    Top 10 Sexiest Men...Ever!!!!

    by Brimacombe

    1.Bruce Springsteen 2.Paul Newman 3.Chris Cooper 4.Ron Francis 5.Robert Redford 6.Kevin Spacey 7.Clark Gable 8.Elvis Presley 9.William Holden 10.Richard Burton

  • June 10, 2003, 1:20 a.m. CST

    One last thing....

    by Asimov's Brain

    Snidely insulting Brad Miska for misspelled words? Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME?? Have you ever read one of Harry's reviews? Good lord, what a hypocrite.

  • June 10, 2003, 1:29 a.m. CST

    Stop with the whole 'AICN is guilty too,' shit...

    by Beatrice_Kidd

    ...because they'd have to have a scoop, first. I haven't seen one here in months. Fuck Moriarty. Now I'm going to download Hulk just to spite him...

  • June 10, 2003, 1:31 a.m. CST

    didn't AICN review AOTC?

    by Spider Baby

    Did we really need 400 people making the same point over and over again? Yeah, yeah, AOTC, we got it.

  • June 10, 2003, 1:33 a.m. CST

    APOLOGIZE MORIARTY!

    by Manaqua

    YOU CAN';T MAKE THIS A GREY AREA OR IT BECOMES A MATTER OF PERSONAL OPINION! EVER HEAR OF A NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT?! YOU GUYS POST REVIEWS ALL THE TIME AFTER THE SUBMITTERS HAVE SIGNED SUCH. PROTECTING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS AND COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE ARTISTS, NOT THE MEGACORPORATIONS. FUCK THEM UP THEIR STUPID ASSES! THE REASON WHY PEOPLE DOWNLOAD FUCKIN MUSIC IN THE FIRST PLACE IS BECAUSE WERE ALL TIRED OF PAYING 15.00 FOR A 20 CENT DISC THAT HAS MAYBE 2 SONGS AND TEH REST IS FILLER. FUCK THAT. SAME WITH THE FILMS. EVERYTIME WE GO TO THE THATER WE ARE DISAPPOINTED BECAUSE THEY HYPE THE SHIT AND IT DOESN;T FUCKING DELIVER. FUCK MORI. DON'T LOSE SIGHT OF THE PRIZE BRO. DON'T BECOME A COG BRO. YOU'RE STILL THE BEST. PEACE. M

  • June 10, 2003, 1:41 a.m. CST

    MORIARTY IS A SELLOUT AND HYPOCRITE

    by KOBE-WAN

    Piracy is obviously wrong. But being a cheap sellout and hypocrite like Moriarty is flat out worse. Harry and Moriarty have been bought by the studios like other press junket whores. Moriarty proclaims Daredevil a masterpiece then gets a job with FOX. What bullshit. Moriarty drools over stolen scripts for years then comes here to lecture fandom. As for you Hollywood industry "artists", bitching because you don't get paid enough...well, maybe it's because you suck at your job. Hollywood will pay people who can deliver the goods not whiners who half ass their work.

  • June 10, 2003, 1:41 a.m. CST

    what you can download movies over the internet now????

    by name-name-name

    what a crazy topsy turvy world we live in eh? seriously whats this shame on all of you ...err not all of you buisiness.... please make up your mind!... do you want to lecture all of us including the one's such as myself who thought... should i download it ...eh? nah whay bother?... and didnt download it... or are you only going to lecture the downloaders... ahh i'm confused... confused and entertained... nice lecture..puty that in your movie script you're writting and I'll put down 12 bucks or so to watch it just for that speech!

  • June 10, 2003, 1:54 a.m. CST

    Now that I think about it-

    by hogarth358

    Maybe this isn't a slam on everyone-maybe this is just an on-line audition by Mori for a new Tom Clancy film... Jack Ryan bursts into the President's office, catching him in the act of downloading a bootleg version of The Hulk. President: Oh, Jack, you startled me son. How are you? Ryan:What the hell do you think you're doing sir? President: Now hold on their Jack, Jack: NO, you hold on sir! That download is costing honest hollywood types hard earned money! How dare you download that movie! President: Damn it Jack! Don't you ever address me that way! I'm the President of the United States! Shame on you for you lack of respect! Jack:NO, Shame on you sir!!!

  • June 10, 2003, 1:58 a.m. CST

    Amazed

    by rhedd5

    Yup, that's the emotion I'm feeling, Amazed you could be this retarded Moriarty. The whole premise of this websight is to acquire info about cool movies before they come out. Amazed you could be this hypocritical. Get a clue, man

  • June 10, 2003, 1:59 a.m. CST

    Downloads

    by Dabear

    Downloading Hulk now-- Downloading puts the Pirates out of business If I download it - I wont buy it for a dollar on a VCD, or 2 dollars on DVD. Screw the industry Most movies are crap anyways - If I download or buy a pirated copy of a movie and it is ANY good - I will buy it legally later, when it is released. If Hollywood continues to try to force garbage on us - well screw em. Same with the musik industry. GO GO Indonesia

  • June 10, 2003, 2:06 a.m. CST

    Downloading is NOT Stealing

    by Darquon

    You cannot steal Speech. You might 'plagiarize', but Speech cannot be 'stolen'. You CAN steal a DVD, or a book. You CANNOT STEAL SPEECH. If you take pencil and paper to a book store and transcribe the new Grisham novel, you are not stealing. If you sell your transcription of said novel, you are violating Grisham's copyright and 'stealing' from him in a sense. A child who watches a baseball game through a hole in the fence is not stealing. Don't sell copies of the Hulk workprint and you are morally in the clear.

  • June 10, 2003, 2:25 a.m. CST

    Wow

    by Ribbons

    I think Shade's statement rang truest, lack of bombast (a righteous talkbacker prerequisite) notwithstanding

  • June 10, 2003, 2:27 a.m. CST

    My story...

    by CranialLeak

    A couple of years ago, I was anticipating the summer movie-going experience just like everyone else. I was pumped to see Fast & The Furious on IMAX (dude, it was for IMAX more than the movie, and boy did I pay the price). I was pumped to see Evolution too. Guess what? I pounded out thirty-six hard-earned dollars (it's called a date for those in the know) for 4 hours of my life wasted by the screen. Yeah, you can say it was my fault...OR, you can say it was the studios fault for pissing me off by serving me crap when all I wanted was a simple cheeseburger, not a Big Mac. I immediately withdrew from the rest of the summer movies and instead just downloaded them (wasn't the first time, I'll admit it). You know what? I don't care. You can say that I prevented the studios from getting my money. Very true. That was my intent. But come on, people. Did it keep me from ever going back to the theater? Hell, NO! I avoided downloading the movies that I really wanted to see still, like X2 and Reloaded and Finding Nemo, and next week, HULK. Yes I know it's out there, and yes I could watch it if I want. But I ain't gonna. It's my decision as a consumer to test what I want and what I don't want to see. You know what? Half the movies I download, I don't even WATCH the whole damn thing because they mostly end up SUCKING! Moriarty, I love your reviews, and I think you're the best thing on this site. But my friend, you made the big mistakes by many counts. 1) Hypocritical - you can deny all you want, but that's the truth 2) You gave one of the biggest public forums information on how to download movies - big mistake 3) You categorized your own visitors into one group - thieves - fuck you, I've been watching movies in the theaters all my life, and have a collection of close to 200 dvd's. Why? I support the movies that I enjoy, but I'll be damned if the studios didn't steal from me in the process, because 200 movies does not a lifetime make. My theater satisfaction is probably around 50% lifetime. Don't blame the technology, and don't blame us. We are the consumers of the business that keeps you in business. Live with it, deal with it. Ban me if you don't want to listen, but I think you are a reasonable man. Keep your head up, and don't pick fights with your own public.

  • June 10, 2003, 2:32 a.m. CST

    LOL at that review up there

    by Gheorghe Zamfir

    I wonder how many other people will mistake Hulk's increasing size as the effects guys just not understanding scale, just thinking about that makes me laugh. Anyways, downloading my copy now, and I'm not gonna bother justifying it, cause really, what the fuck do I care?

  • June 10, 2003, 2:45 a.m. CST

    MORIARTY RANT = KISSING AVI ARAD'S ASS

    by KOBE-WAN

    Can you believe the condescending tone of Moriarty's rant. "You All" "I

  • June 10, 2003, 3:04 a.m. CST

    About That HULK Workprint (blah-blah!)

    by damnitjim

    My God......the Apocalypse is truly upon us, let lose the plagues of locust, the end is at hand. I cannot believe what I have read regarding Moriority's pathetic "Jean-Luc" inspired soap box drivil. Next, he'll be pulling out that bible and telling us; "We are all damned and going to hell!" I guess I should agree with one and only one statement from the "dilusioned one" Don't base a solid review on a workprint or otherwise incomplete product. Now, that I have that out of the way. WHAT THE FUCK WAS THE HOLIER THAN NOW SPEECH ABOUT!! Pull the corn cob out of your tight little ass and take some Paxil. Are you really serious and stand by those rediculous comments you made? Do you realize how bad you really came off by your statements. Let me get this straight from your own poop shoot, okay? You've never reviewed a screenplay obtained outside of studio permission, never reviewed a film where a NDA may have been requested and you probably signed, you've never taped a tv show, song or movie, huh? I'm sure you need some time on that, don't you. Why doesn'y Harry pull those balls out from under those layers and speak up. Or his it that he's truly speechless, or even better perhaps, Moriority's unic. In any case, who gives a flying Hulk fart what someone chooses to do in their own home or on their own time? You seem to graciously take up the studio's cause, but yet don't seem to understand that the studios have continously screwed the consumer time and time again. If it were upto the suits and the lovely Nazi's of the RIAA, we'd pay for everything. We wouldn't truly own anything. When will studios simply learn to embrace the technology and utilize it instead of fighting it tooth and nail every inch of the way. Remember, the VCR was a long fought battle that they finally had to give into, albeit reluctantly. Maybe the studios should stop paying actor or "artists" the huge salaries $20, $30 and $40 million dollars each time they make a stupid film. Gee, I wonder why the studios are always complaining about money.... they start of by screwing themselves! Oh....and I guess those people who bring candy and other fun items into the theater are ripping off the theater owners too. You know what, I downloaded the Hulk, so fucking what! I will also pay to take myself and my family at $8 a pop and purchase drinks and other items while at the theater too. So, tell me how am I ripping anyone off??? Perhaps those RIAA butt-monkeys have finally turned you to the dark side of the Force. Speaking of the Force, didn't Jabba....er I mean Harry review a certain bootleg "work print" of AOTC? Hmmmm!!!!!!! Didn't hear you bitching then. Oh, I forgot, he was invited to watch it. I guess that makes it better, now doesn't it? Note to Johnny Knoxville - - When you cast Jackass 2, please include Harry and Moriority. They don't need much help in the Jackass department! C'ya!

  • June 10, 2003, 3:11 a.m. CST

    Where the fuck are you moriaty! Get your ass in here!

    by Schmiggy JK

    Come on you fuck nut. Get in here, counter point with us. You candy asses have buried this post, trying to draw less attention to it. I have personally posted this thread on every major forum I visit. Fuckers. DREW! Defend your claims, your actions, hypocrite. Stand up for your self. Its bad enough 90% of the people who have visited this site/TB have lost almost respect for this site today. You guys alittle worried all your precious advertising might drop a little bit? Fuck you, and This site... I will come back untill I hear through the grape vine that you have put a rebuttle on here...

  • June 10, 2003, 3:20 a.m. CST

    Where the fuck are you moriaty! Get your ass in here!

    by Schmiggy JK

    Come on you fuck nut. Get in here, counter point with us. You candy asses have buried this post, trying to draw less attention to it. I have personally posted this thread on every major forum I visit. Fuckers. DREW! Defend your claims, your actions, hypocrite. Stand up for your self. Its bad enough 90% of the people who have visited this site/TB have lost almost all respect for this site today. You guys alittle worried all your precious advertising might drop a little bit? Fuck you, and This site... I will not come back untill I hear through the grape vine that you have put a rebuttle on here... *reposted cuz i cant type when im late, fixed typos.*

  • June 10, 2003, 3:35 a.m. CST

    Don't make Moriarty angry...

    by fookinmonkey

    So, 6am I get up walk to the train station half expecting the Silver Streak to take me to work, I get off after making eye contact with a lady who looks like Kim Cattral, Valeris not the dummy, I proceed to work. I walk through my office to get to my computer feeling like the little kid who snuck in to Raiders of the Lost Ark and waiting to open up Microsofts version of the Ark of the Covenant Internet Explorer my anticipation grows... Wow cool Hulk news well I know everyone thinks the Bixby/Ferrigno Hulk is the ultimate one but for me its the old purple pants Hulk from the saturday morning cartoon days. (this is how to write on this site isn't it Harry?) Who could the fiends be reviewing bootleg films before they are out? WELL ITS NORMALLY HARRY KNOWELLS FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!! HOW MANY SECRET AGENT MONOLOGUES DO I HAVE TO READ FROM 007 KNOWLLS AND HIS CRONIES, DIDNT MORIARTY GET X2 THROUGH THE LETTER BOX 12 MONTHS AGO AND TELL US ALL ABOUT IT? DID MORIARTY RING THE COPS OR READ THE SCRIPT? DID HARRY - HUSH HUSH AOTC IN A HOTEL ROOM - KNOWELLS CALL 911 AS SOON AS THE CREDITS ROLLED? NO THEY F*CKING DIDNT THEY LAPPED IT ALL UP AND THEN BRAGGED TO US. WELL YOU ARE SORRY WRITERS, AND BY THE LOOKS OF THIS YOU ARE ALSO SORE LOOSERS, SOMEONE ELSE GOT THERE FIRST HARRY AND MORIARTY, DEAL WITH IT.

  • June 10, 2003, 3:48 a.m. CST

    Rant 101

    by GuyMontag451

    Yeah, alot of people gave this "work print" a less than favorable review, but since when has a review deterred a real fan boy fuck from going to see anything? I read 86249832641 bad reviews of The Matrix Reloaded, paid to see it, and loved it. Reviews only prevent impressionable idiots from going to see a movie, and those people are bottomfeeding bastards who will gleefully eat the ass of any insider who claims to have a scoop. Any review of a movie, illegal or not, can hurt the box office and drive those retarded film zombies away. P2P networks are a filtering system... greedy, talentless, mediocre artists will soon be a thing of the past and hard working, raw, intelligent, inventive people will rightfully take the thrones of the media kings. If Hollywood wants to stop the loss of money from piracy then they need to start making movies worth a crap. People pay to see good movies... not to lick the dingleberries off of George Lucas's slimy crust covered asshole. Maybe spending 100 million dollars on a movie is a bad idea... mainly because TROMA always seems to put out wonderful movies on budgets 1/50th the size of your average hollywood flop. If the Hulk is shit then its shit. No early review, or Hollywood hype will change that. Seeing a unfinished, shitty copy of it won't change anything either. In the end we are the consumers and if what we are doing is illegal, we will all be imprisoned and you will see how far the precious box office sales drop. There will be alot less people wanting to see these shitty fan boy mark out fests, because the fan boys and geeks run the net and do 983987 percent of the file sharing out there... oh and by the wayyyy...I didn't download that shit. The Hulk sucks. One more thing...Moriarty, if you ever read this, where did you get that Watchmen script from?? I read an interview somewhere with David Hayter where he stated that he was very disappointed that his script was leaked but glad the review was favorable... kinda the same shit isn't it?

  • June 10, 2003, 3:49 a.m. CST

    Rant 101

    by GuyMontag451

    Yeah, alot of people gave this "work print" a less than favorable review, but since when has a review deterred a real fan boy fuck from going to see anything? I read 86249832641 bad reviews of The Matrix Reloaded, paid to see it, and loved it. Reviews only prevent impressionable idiots from going to see a movie, and those people are bottomfeeding bastards who will gleefully eat the ass of any insider who claims to have a scoop. Any review of a movie, illegal or not, can hurt the box office and drive those retarded film zombies away. P2P networks are a filtering system... greedy, talentless, mediocre artists will soon be a thing of the past and hard working, raw, intelligent, inventive people will rightfully take the thrones of the media kings. If Hollywood wants to stop the loss of money from piracy then they need to start making movies worth a crap. People pay to see good movies... not to lick the dingleberries off of George Lucas's slimy crust covered asshole. Maybe spending 100 million dollars on a movie is a bad idea... mainly because TROMA always seems to put out wonderful movies on budgets 1/50th the size of your average hollywood flop. If the Hulk is shit then its shit. No early review, or Hollywood hype will change that. Seeing a unfinished, shitty copy of it won't change anything either. In the end we are the consumers and if what we are doing is illegal, we will all be imprisoned and you will see how far the precious box office sales drop. There will be alot less people wanting to see these shitty fan boy mark out fests, because the fan boys and geeks run the net and do 983987 percent of the file sharing out there... oh and by the wayyyy...I didn't download that shit. The Hulk sucks. One more thing...Moriarty, if you ever read this, where did you get that Watchmen script from?? I read an interview somewhere with David Hayter where he stated that he was very disappointed that his script was leaked but glad the review was favorable... kinda the same shit isn't it?

  • June 10, 2003, 3:56 a.m. CST

    moriarty ya whining little bitch, back yourself up

    by HKaos

    grow a fucking spine, and back yourself up. if all these people were attacking me, i'd have responded back hours ago. guess ya need a pair of balls, or ya expected to get alot of support on this and instead got so much backlash you ran to your mommy to nurse and go to bed, hoping it'll all blow over tomorrow. well bitch, ya fucked up, you're going to be plagued by this post, longer than your "real cancun is great" crap. this sites become obsolete, comingsoon.net and CHUD have taken its place as the best sites for movie news. shit, more people are getting the hulk print now than before, just because you said it. should have let it go ya fatfuck. and MK3??????? ya gotta be fucking kidding me, thats not even straight to video thats straight to the trashcan.

  • June 10, 2003, 5:38 a.m. CST

    You know...

    by ProfessorChaos

    I would brag that I get to see HULK SMASH on the big screen while all these suckers that downloaded it had to squint and watch a crap bootleg on their computer screens, but 99% of these fools will be there opening weekend. So I guess I can brag that I get my first time at the Arclight's Cinerama Dome in Hollywood. That's a 32 by 86 foot screen, by the way. Much better than a computer screen, I tell you what. Oh, Moriarty? Why, oh WHY did you have to mention bittorrent? Now even more Johnny Come Latelys are jumping in and will ruin it.

  • June 10, 2003, 7:02 a.m. CST

    Actually Manuwalde....

    by TheAllSeeingEye

    Downloading a movie isnt stealing, if you'd bothered to read the entire thread you'd have seen a nice legal interpretation of it. I can't be bothered to trawl through it again but the people who download this movie are only guilty of 'Copyright Infringement'; the fucker who stole it from the studio is guilty of 'Stealing'. Whats more its not the moral issue of stealing (or copyright infringement) that people in here seem to be so riled up about. What people seem to be talking about is the prize fucking stupidity of Moriarty for posting this bullshit in the first place. If you took your tongue out of harry's ass and actually read all the comments on here you would have understood that.

  • June 10, 2003, 7:23 a.m. CST

    Piracy, Bootlegs Bladda Bladda Bladda

    by |nSaNe

    Ok Lets get something straight here, I am a long term software / video / music pirate. Say what you like, you aint gonna stop me. HOwever,I dont beleive piracy harms the industry as much as companys would want people to beleive. I have this copy of The hulk, and didnt want to see it because i expected it to be complete crap. As it happened I really enjoyed the movie and will go and see it at the cinema when it arrives here. #1 more customer for the film / cinema company. I didnt expect to enjoy it, and had no intention on going to see it, but by piracy i have now decided i will watch it. Yesterday i brought 2 DVD's "Donnie Darko" & "The transporter" Both of them i have hugh quality DVDrips off, Why did i buy them, because they are both movies i enjoy for diffrent reasons and i thought they where well worth the money i paid for them (full retail price) I had also seen a good quality copy of Donnie darko before it opened here in the cinema, when it opened I went to the cinema to watch it again, because i enjoyed it. I have every single game and music CD that comes out cross my path through piracy, and if i like the sound of a game/album i download it, if i like the game/abum I tehn will buy it, I have a large collection of retail brought games and music. I think you are flogging a dead horse with all this nonsense, not every single pirate is pirating and not watching the movie/game/music ect... I know plenty of people who download everything just so they have it, they never play 90% of what they have, they just want it. I am not stupid enough to think what i am doing is right or legal, because know it isnt, I have no intrest in that. What does annoy me, and this is the only part of piracy that i do think is wrong and you totally failed to cover it in your moronic rant is people who sell the stuff. Moan about the Market traders who have this now for sale on there store, not the people who download it. I own well over 300 movies on VHS and DVD, i even ave brought the DVD of something i allready own on VHS for the better quality and extra features. Of course not ever pirate does this, but you are stereo typing and grouping everyone together, next time put some thought into the crap you have written and think about the worse problem, dont knock the people who download it, knowck the people who download it and sell it ect....

  • June 10, 2003, 7:33 a.m. CST

    Strong Words, Mori!

    by Dog Of Mystery

    You have a compelling argument, but forget fair use. According to the official party line in Hollywood right now, fair use is dead. This means if you buy a DVD, you can't loan it to your friends. This means that libraries don't have the right to loan out books, CDs and movies any more. File sharing is just that. SHARING. And Sesame Street tells us that it's good to share. I have downloaded movies off of the net, but it's never halted me from seeing a movie in the theater -- even seeing the movie multiple times theatrically. Nor has it stopped me from buying the DVD, a fact that my bank account often laments. Honestly, I think that the HULK work print could be a valuable tool to learn about the way films come together. However, I don't think I would watch it until the final movie is released. I have plans to see the movie on its release with a group of friends, and I wouldn't want to spoil that first experience. Now, on to other news... Some of you might have noticed that I've been showing up less and less in the TalkBacks. Well, it's because I have had enough. The long battle against first posting losers has left me weary. I just don't have the fire for the fight any more. In short, I fucking quit. Don't think it's safe to post first, though, kiddies. There are plenty of people who hate you and want you to suffer (kicker_of_elves is watching you all!). Until there is a major sea change in the atmosphere of the TBs, I officially retire. Fuck first posters. Fuck them up their stupid asses.

  • June 10, 2003, 7:50 a.m. CST

    Don't expect any reasoned debate from these TBers

    by Catachesis

    Of course copyright violation is wrong. There can really be no argument. The trouble is that many TBers here are not even of legal working age and have no idea what it's like to have one's work and effort stolen. I have had a screenplay produced as a low-budget indy and worked in various capacities on low-budget movies. There's no way in hell you can justify stealing my work and my effort by bootlegging. I was the one who spent a year at my computer hammering out a script. I was the one standing around in the pissing rain waiting for the DP to light the set. I am the only one entitled to recompense for that work. Maybe when these pre-pubescent TBers get a job flipping burgers at McD's, which is probably going to be the pinnacle of their careers, I can stroll in and take their paychecks while they sweat over the grill. After all, McDs is a big old corporation, and thus stealing from them is really AOK, isn't it? Movie studios may make a lot of money, but a good part of that goes to paying the wages of everyday people in the business like me. So when you bootleg a movie, you are literally stealing the food off my family's table. Get off your parents' computers, get a real job and pay your 8 bucks at the multiplex, you freaking CHILDREN. You go Moriarty.

  • June 10, 2003, 8:09 a.m. CST

    Catachesis, read the fucking talkback..

    by TheAllSeeingEye

    I dont give a flying fuck about the moral issues of piracy here. I know this is a long talkback but at least try to read all of the comments before you to mount your high horse and come charging in here mouthing off. The point here is Mori has no right to lecture anyone on the rights or wrongs of piracy when its common knowledge that AICN has reviewed and watched leaked/stolen material, just go and read the comments. How would you feel if AICN got a stolen copy of your script and bashed it online for the whole world to see? Pretty pissed off i'd imagine. As for bashing all the Talkbackers in here, get real. If it wasn't for the people who visit this site regularly Harry and Mori would be nothing so just be careful about how you refer to these people in the future. Also as an indy screenwriter i imagine that it's more than likely going to be you flipping OUR burgers rather than the other way around!

  • June 10, 2003, 8:43 a.m. CST

    'Radical' Edward

    by Catachesis

    So you don't give a 'flying fuck' about the moral issues of piracy. Bully for you. I assume then that you wouldn't give a fuck, flying or otherwise, if I came round to your house and stole your computer? As to your assumption - an incorrect one - that I didn't read the whole TB, well in fact I did. I couldn't help myself, in much the same way I can't avoid rubbernecking at a traffic accident. You say 'The point here is Mori has no right to lecture anyone on the rights or wrongs of piracy when its common knowledge that AICN has reviewed and watched leaked/stolen material.' No, my slow-witted friend, that's YOUR point. MY point was about the moral correctness of copyright infringement. There is a world of difference between REVIEWING a work in progress and DISTRIBUTING/STEALING that work. I don't recall Harry or Mori ever posting a pre-release movie or script on the AICN website for all to download. If an early print or script was obtained illegally, then I agree that AICN is in the wrong too, if they review it. Knowing the industry as I do, though, I feel certain that most of the time such leaks have official sanction. That's part of the way studios create buzz. If there's no offical sanction, I agree that AICN shouldn't publish any reviews of that work. And you're right, I should be more careful in how I refer to TBers who support piracy. I said that they were 'freaking children'. I apologize. What I meant to say was 'freaking pre-pubescent thieves'. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify. Also, just to set your troubled idiot mind to rest, you need have no fear that I will be flipping burgers anytime soon. I know it's a tough concept for your addled mind to take, but there is plenty of life, thank goodness, in the indy scene, and I'm doing quite well thank you very much. Oh, how dreadful it feels to be out on the frontlines MAKING some art instead of being a passive obsessive consumer of it.... Feel free to rebut, but don't expect me to be around to read it - there's only so much teenage chaff I can wade through in order to find the wheat.

  • June 10, 2003, 9:27 a.m. CST

    Yes of course, i am soooooo sorry.

    by TheAllSeeingEye

    It must be great to be you. However it's even greater to be me, see, i do make ART of a sort and believe me it makes far more money than any of the indy claptrap you knock together between shifts at McDonalds. Infact, i think most of the people in here have actually seen (or rather played) some of my work. You evidently HAVEN'T read the entire talkback otherwise you would be well aware of AICN reviews of work in progress copies of ONE HOUR PHOTO and ATTACK OF THE CLONES. Not to mention the whole fiasco with harry, his friend and the screener tapes from Disney. If you had the slightest idea of what most people in here were talking about you wouldn't be spouting that 'You Go Moriarty' bullshit; and you have the audactiy to call me slow witted? Also, where in my post did i defend copyright infringement?...i didn't. See, the industry i work in suffers far more than the movie industry and i know many people who have worked for very large companies being layed off thanks to the enormous losses from Piracy. While 99% of people who download work in progress movies will buy the DVD's or go to the cinema, with games people get the finished article straight away...their copies are perfect. So don't lecture me on copyright infringement asshole i know more about it than you will ever know. It's a shame you won't be around to rebut this as you have far more pressing things to do, that grill doesnt clean itself now does it?

  • June 10, 2003, 9:35 a.m. CST

    It's like friggin Hannibal Lecter warning people not to indulge

    by Spacesheik

    Because of this fucking site everyone and their mother now refer to others as "the sexiest beanpole tent ever." Fucking ludicrous I tell ya. Where is that fucking shit "spuerman does matrix moves and lex luthor is an alien from a planet that doesnt explode" crap when ya need it!?!

  • June 10, 2003, 9:40 a.m. CST

    Why download movies? Cuz its 13 friggin dollars to see a movie.

    by Tall_Boy

    Movies are expensive to go to with the multiplex age. Repeat viewings even moreso. The majority of downloaders off Kazza are college / university students who have to worry about paying for tuition, books, food, rent and more. I usually see a movie in the theatre once, but I've also downloaded movies that I couldn't get a chance to see in theatres or even get access to on DVD - Cannibal: the musical, Below, Life as a House, Phone Booth, and alot more. Here's a simple phrase for Moriarty and Harry - GET OFF YOUR FUCKING HIGH HORSE.

  • June 10, 2003, 9:48 a.m. CST

    Regarding the leglity of things

    by seagrass

    I have this friend...he started a band fansite. He also started having custom shirts screenprinted at a certain online company to promote the band, and for that reason alone. The design was his own, the idea was his...the only thing that wasn't was the name of the band. He was subsequently threatened with legal action from the band's lawyers if he did not "cease and desist" having his shirts available to be purchased online...and no money was being made from this venture...any money went towards the cost of materials, and that's it. So, given this relatively small infraction and the attention it received from the fucking lawyers, don't you think that the movie industry would be litigating the SHIT out of Harry, Mori, and this website if they thought something illegal was going on? It wouldn't take much for a team of lawyers to shut this site down, given all of the infractions dealing with "intellectual and physical properties" that have taken place, and which take place every day. Use some common sense. Mori had every right to say what he did. And we have every right to agree or disagree...but don't attack him personally.

  • June 10, 2003, 9:49 a.m. CST

    Ahem

    by seagrass

    Dammit...it should have been LEGALITY. Yes, I know how to spell...unlike certain others on this site, who shall remain unnamed.

  • June 10, 2003, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Financial Damage?

    by CyclopsSJS

    Will downloading Hulk hurt Hulk? Not as much as it will hurt the smaller films that Universal is hmming and hahing on making. Blockbusters pay for the art films. Fellowship and Two Towers were successful, allowing New Line to experiment with Willard. Who knows what the future is holding for Universal's release slate? Maybe a film that's borderling greenlit gets axed because the overall returns were down. A film that could have been amazing. Is this certain? No, but its likely. I DO agree that it will force quality into the industry, but to think that movies are a right and that you can't wait... that's like saying you can't wait to drink your coke, so you drink it in the store before paying. Just because you want it now, AND other's have it, doesn't mean its yours for the taking.

  • June 10, 2003, 10:04 a.m. CST

    IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO DOWNLOAD FILMS

    by Hate_Speech

    Can you point me to this law? I'm not familiar with it.

  • June 10, 2003, 10:08 a.m. CST

    AICN Hypocrites

    by fookinmonkey

    I

  • June 10, 2003, 10:09 a.m. CST

    Oh yes it is

    by seagrass

    You know that little message from the FBI that either precedes or follows every single one of your dvd/vhs movies? Have you ever bothered to read it? Well, it applies to the downloading of movies as well. Why? Very simple...because those movies are both the intellectual and physical property of the studio. If you get it without paying for it, or distribute it in any way, shape or form, you are infringing on the law. Now, it's not likely you will get busted, because it's impoosible for the govt. to watch everyone...but you ARE breaking the law.

  • June 10, 2003, 10:14 a.m. CST

    I'm no hypocrite, either

    by seagrass

    Nor am I a saint. I just know that the act of making the copy/download/what have you is illegal. Sure, we've all done it...but don't pretend that it's legal to do so. I was just stating the facts, not preaching to the masses. And with that in mind, I'm off to watch the Two Towers on dvd for the 15th time...oh SHIT, me and my big mouth.

  • June 10, 2003, 2:27 p.m. CST

    David Poland on this little controversy

    by Dan_Average

    http://www.thehotbutton.com/today/hot.button/2003_thb/030610_tue.html

  • June 10, 2003, 3:47 p.m. CST

    What EVA'

    by shad0w

    M, The only reason your all worked up about piracy would be the simple fact that you crave attention. Oh look at me! I saw the movie before you! Now that you can't say that you are all miffed. No one cares to see you in your pink bunny slippers unless they have to. Thanks to the internet they don't.

  • June 10, 2003, 5:33 p.m. CST

    How much more fucking hypocritical could this site be?

    by minderbinder

    The whole point of this site is reports based on early viewings of a movie, and yes, those viewings are often "illegal". If you're going to fucking complain about something, practice what you preach. This article is like Keith Richards saying "don't do drugs". Now excuse me, I'm off to download this...

  • June 10, 2003, 5:35 p.m. CST

    The Incredible Hypocrite

    by TempusFugitive

    For anyone out there who had any doubts about Drew/Mori being a flip-flopping twit, here's your proof: http://www.scorched-planet.blogspot.com

  • June 10, 2003, 7:15 p.m. CST

    haha

    by NapalmFuzZ

    i take comfort in knowing.. that dumbasses think that people on kazaa with camcorders are the source of movie piracy.. thats good news.. cause not only does it keep the heat off of the real motherfuckers backs.. maybe well loose a couple dumbfucks that use kazaa as a means of obtaining movies to the feds.. ill laugh my ass off. also.. in response to someone i read say "people squinting their eyes to watch movies on the computer screen" i also had to laugh at you.. the people that do said action.. are the same fucks that download a stolen copy of a stolen copy of a stolen copy of the actual work thats leaked.. so by that time.. when its at a format nearly un-viewable.. yeah.. they probably do watch it on the computer screen.. but those people dont count to begin with.. so who cares about them.. i was actually suprised to see that harry had a LITTLE more sense than little weeny.. but i guess sometimes you learn new shit.. if youre anti pirating.. you lead a futile life.. cause the death of piracy will not be seen by any of us in our lifes.. so either accept it.. or shut the fuck up.. now continue bashing the "kazaa users with dv cams" as i find it amusing

  • June 10, 2003, 7:33 p.m. CST

    Deac Speaks... Mori, everyone else... read this shit.

    by Deacon

    Hello, my name is Deac (not real name) and i live in Saskatchewan Canada, the huge land mass as ig as Texas but only 160,000 people in the whole damn thing.i only have one theater in my small town, it has 2 movies every 2 weeks... and after those 2 weeks, them movies are gone... no special matinee's no returns to the theater, nothing, wave bye bye, now the only other way for me to see these movies is by driving to Regina (a 3 hour drive) the capital city, where they're is a famous players and a bunch of other theaters... now i download movies off kazaa and mIRC, i do it, but i only do it after i've seen it at the theaters, i won't download the Hulk, unlike all of you spoiler junkis, i stay spoiler free until i see the movie on the big scree. Now after i see it, i go and download it if i liked it, i saw the Matrix Reloaded twice, then after it's run, i downloaded it and burned it (watch it on my Dreamcast on my 36 inch TV). now i cannot pay to see this movie again, i can't, and i agree that watching it on the big screen is a must, also... having already stated my local theater only gets 2 movies every 2 weeks, it only gets high profile releases (Matrix Reloaded, X2, bruce Almighty) now i missed Memento at the theater, i missed Requiem for a Dream, and i missed recently, Identity. Now i downloaded these films because i can't see them any other way unless i wanna drive to Regina.. and for a guy that makes 10bucks an hour (Canadian mind you) and drives a piece of shit 88 ford escort... that just ain't gonna happen. so Mori if you wanna bitch at me about downloading movies, come live where i live for a couple years, live with one local theater that gets 2 movies every two weeks, and fucking tell me "shame on you" you can go see fucking movies on the day they come out, goto advanced screening (who ever holds advance screenings in Saskatchewan, Canada?), and see all the big movies and art house films... i have to either wait for the DVD or download the movie, and i choose download, i don't cost the studios any extra money, i can't goto the theater to see it, so how am i costing them money? self-righteous fucker from Los Angeles trying to preach to me about movies? why am i eminded about millionairre mansion living rolls royce driving televangelists telling me i'm a sinner and i need to give THEM money!

  • June 10, 2003, 7:58 p.m. CST

    flawed logic

    by Rupee88

    It was certainly wrong to leak the work copy of the Hulk to the Internet, but saying it is wrong to download it is nonsense. If I download it and then pay to go see the movie, it doesn't affect box office receipts at all. Sure if you download it and then don't pay to go see it when you would have otherwise, then that is bad for box office. Then again if you download it and watch it, you don't have to pay to sit through 20 minutes of f*cking commercials like you do when you go to the theater. And you don't have to pay for overpriced popcorn either. So while I don't condone downloading and hurting box office, I understand it. And just like the music industry, the movie industry has encouraged this sort of activity by gouging and screwing the public. Playing comnmercials before movies is the ultimate insult and I have will have little pity if Hulk just makes $200 million rather than $220 million domestic.

  • June 10, 2003, 8:03 p.m. CST

    Hulk CGI

    by The Metal Master

    The rants here against the CGI HULK are ridiculous. It's 2003, would you rather have a body-builder painted green? That's the other option. The CGI is going to be state of the art. If you're pissed off that it's not the year 2010 (when effects will be up to your lofty standards) that's another issue. But in the meantime enjoy the Hulk, because it's the best one available. And speaking as one of the screenwriters, I think the leaking of unfinished work like the rough cut is a pastime for the bitter and impotent.

  • June 10, 2003, 8:08 p.m. CST

    bootleg Attack of the Clones Review

    by Rupee88

    Oh yeah...this has been said before above, but everyone remembers Harry reviewing Attack of the Clones from a bootleg copy before it was released. Why didn't Harry lecture the guy who had it and then refuse to view it? No, he watched it and reviewed, shook the guy's hand, and now suddenly it is "wrong" to watch a bootleg copy of the Hulk. Shame on you...at least be a little more clever and deceiving with your hyopcrisy!

  • June 10, 2003, 8:13 p.m. CST

    CGI Hulk realism

    by Rupee88

    And everyone who complains that they can tell the Hulk isn't "real" is an utter and total retard. People working with CGI are not capable of creating totally real looking human characters. And they probably won't be capable of this for hundreds of years. You can make a totally believable metal box with CGI, but you can't do a moving, person (esp. their face)...it is just too complex and our eyes are just too critical to fool. Truly realistic CGI will only be possible once AI advances to where computers can do it with little human involvement. For now and for the forseeable future, humans aren't capable of creating real looking CGI humans on their own, regardless of what hardware they have. So complaining that the Hulk is not totally real looking just points out what a fantasy world you live in.

  • June 10, 2003, 8:36 p.m. CST

    Silliness

    by BAMF

    This is a very silly site, a very silly article, and a very silly talkback. Go to the movies, or something.

  • June 10, 2003, 9:46 p.m. CST

    My zero cents worth...

    by Yossarian

    I have seen one bootlegged movie, (minority report) and it was a horrible experience. The dialogue was muffled, underwater-sounding shite, the colors were bleached out, and there were human heads bobbing in and out of the frame. Luckily, I had already seen the film in the theatre so the experience was not ruined for me, but suffice to say, it was enough for me to swear off piracy forever. I am a film geek and all, but I'm usually too damn busy to see a movie until it has been out for a week or so anyway. Just be patient and pay for what yer gettin'!

  • June 10, 2003, 10:10 p.m. CST

    another zero cents worth...

    by Yossarian

    My method of "testing" a movie: I go to the theatre, I buy a ticket. I watch the first 30-40 minutes. If it blows, I goes. Money is retrieved from box office. I'm not trying to be all holier-than-thou, I'm just saying that I don't buy the whole I-just-wanna-see-if-it's-good-before-I-go-see-it alibi. Flame me like you care!

  • June 10, 2003, 10:59 p.m. CST

    More two cents re Mori's hissy fit

    by Johnny Ahab

    Y'know, Mori, I wouldn't worry about poor ol' Hollywood and how downloading a film or two is gonna cripple box office. Read the article in tomorrow's Variety, posted on line tonight (pasted below). The poor little studios is doin' just fine. So relax already. Yes, copyright infringement is bad and wrong. Yes, it's stupid to watch a crappy download of a workprint. But please don't ask me to feel pity for the studios. Here's the article: Pic Biz on Upswing * by Meredith Amdur * An increasing emphasis on wide-release blockbuster films, coupled with another few years of gangbuster DVD sales, should keep filmed entertainment consumption in the U.S. humming along for the next five years. According to PricewaterhouseCoopers' latest Entertainment & Media Outlook report, total consumption on theatrical motion picture product should grow from $31.7 billion in 2002 to just under $44 billion by 2007, a modest but steady 6.7% compound annual growth rate. The new forecast, to be released Wednesday, notes that higher opening-weekend grosses have helped drive total B.O. spending up 37% since 1998, when only eight films opened on more than 3,000 screens. In 2002, some 32 films debuted on 3,000-plus screens, with the average wide-release title generating $17.3 million in its opening weekend, a 47% jump from 1998. * Topping out * Overall, PWC notes that box office spending, having grown rapidly in four of the past five years, should slow somewhat through 2007, as the benefits of such wide releases "approach an upper limit." The accounting and consulting shop forecasts U.S. box office spending will increase 6.2% annually through 2007, reaching $12.9 billion, up from last year's $9.5 billion tally. In an effort to maximize ancillary revenue streams by amplifying opening-weekend hype, studios are rushing to slot films onto more screens, leveraging that marketing effort downstream to video/DVD and pay TV. And, of course, along with the bigger emphasis on big-budget wide releases, studios are hedging their bets with more sequels than ever: 27 of them are scheduled for 2003 (up from 20 last year), representing 10%-15% of all major studio films. * Small films hurting * The obvious victim of this big pic juggernaut, the report said, are smaller films. With the exception of last year's $230 million B.O. sleeper "My Big Fat Greek Wedding," they have continued to lose their share of admissions as exhibs rush through films to make room for the next promo-powered wide release. The faster cycling of movies also is leading to a shorter homevideo window, with many films now entering vid release as early as three months after their theatrical debuts, thus speeding up studio cash flows and maximizing marketing spend. With video still the single fastest-growing filmed entertainment sector, PWC said sell-through will comprise nearly 70% of total homevid spending by 2007, thanks in part to double-digit growth in DVD penetration and increasing numbers of TV series released on the format. This growth should offset the decline in rentals. Report posits that VHS rentals will all but disappear over the next five years, dropping to just $120 million in 2007 from $6.4 billion in 2002.

  • June 11, 2003, 12:51 a.m. CST

    Moriarty is a hypocritical asshole...

    by gazzer2

    ... just wanted to make the point that you (M) attack some subversive cybergeeks for downloading a film, yet you're the same slime who sneaks copies of scripts-in-progress and critiques films working their way through the preview process, thereby robbing filmmakers of their right to learn and refine their work. Look in the mirror, M, 'cause the guy mucking up the system is you. Empowering being a snoop, is it?

  • June 11, 2003, 1:25 a.m. CST

    Deac, come on down to civilization the weather is great

    by pogo on my own

  • June 11, 2003, 1:32 a.m. CST

    Work Print

    by Gottlieb

    I don't get to see many movies so I have to choose them wisely. I got young kids so the usual fair is Finding Nemo and Monsters Inc. I get to see movies like Reloaded at the 10 o'clock showing if I'm not working late. Hulk isn't on my list for this year but T3 I will probably make. I downloaded Hulk. Watched it on tv. Yeah, its not finished. The effects will undoubtedly be better in the theater as will the music. But no amount of makeup is gonna make this pig into a prom queen. The story blows. God I about fell asleep through it. Out of two hours, 20 minutes of it were actually interesting. The rest should have been left on the cutting room floor and remained unfinished forever. The leading lady has a face of stone. No emotion at all. She looks like she's bored through the whole movie. The father is a crazy recluse that has no purpose whatsoever and you spend most of the movie wondering why they bothered to include his character until the last 10 minutes. And the General is just an ass you get tired of wiping and wish would go away. All of the trademark characteristics of the Hulk are completely lost in this movie. The TV series, while dorky, was better. Sure the movie industry ain't hurting. Just look at all the idiots that went to see Bruce Almighty and thought it was hillarious, even though every funny scene in it was ripped from a dozen other comedies. The same people will be out to see Stupid and Stupider, duh? But there's no reason to reward movie studios by going to see bad movies if you can avoid it. So unless they reshot 80% of this movie since the workprint was made I'd avoid it.

  • June 11, 2003, 1:48 a.m. CST

    It's the principle of the thing!

    by earnmoresessions

    Moriarty is trying say that if, plain and simple, you love film and if you frequent this site you more than likely do, then you should show some respect for the product that we are crazy about. Moview should not be treated like baseball cards. Sometimes they are actually known as pieces of art, that should not be manipulated in this fashion.

  • June 11, 2003, 2:59 p.m. CST

    well...mori you`Re just damn right

    by drjones

    maybe it`s because my bandwidth is way too small to download films... but i don`t understand the people who name themselves GEEK and are eager to watch films first NO MATTER what the quality is. this is philistinish...and doesn`t come close to any geek stuff.

  • June 14, 2003, 2:47 a.m. CST

    THIS COMING FROM THE SAME SITE THAT REVIEWED A WORKPRINT OF...

    by audioFX

    all this coming from a site that reviewd a workprint of star wars ep 2...shame shame know ur name

  • June 16, 2003, 9:29 a.m. CST

    Hulk Workprint

    by hauptp

    Bottom Line. In most cases going to the theater SUCKS! People are rude, inconsiderate and you now must sit through commercials and there is always some asshole that brings their crying kid with them. If the studios want to put a serious dent in internet piracy they will have to face the fact that they will have to give people another option when it comes to seeing first run movies. I don't blame them for wanting to keep tight control over their films, but I also don't feel guilty for not enjoying or even liking going to the theater. Anti-social, Maybe, but thats my right and alot of other people's as well. If the Studios would set up a site on the net I and you could view the movies at a good quality, I would pay for everyone I wanted to see, but until they get with the times piracy will be beyond their control. It's all about money for them and that's alright, but the question is, by setting up a site on the internet and losing, to some degree the ability to monitor and track ticket sales and potentially losing a few dollars, will the impact be as hard felt as the impact of piracy on the net. According to the studios the lose millions and even billions of dollars at the hand of the internet pirates. It seems that setting up a good movie site with first run movies would be less of a blow to the bottom line.