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Singing Boomsticks And TapDancing Hobbits!! What The Hell Is Going On'!

Hey, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab.

I can’t even really find the words to introduce two projects that fall on opposite ends of the hype and budget scale, but which are both marked by a touch of insanity. I am not sure why either of these things needs to be a musical, but I confess a morbid curiousity. The sheer horror of what’s being attempted might be worth seeing...




“THE LORD OF THE RINGS”, the first major stage musical adaptation of JRR Tolkien’s classic trilogy, will receive its World Premiere when it opens in London in Spring 2005. This coincides with the 50th anniversary of the publication of the complete trilogy, “The Fellowship of the Ring”, “The Two Towers” and “The Return of the King”.

The £8 million production has book and lyrics by Shaun McKenna and music by Stephen Keeling and Bernd Stromberger. McKenna & Keeling were the team responsible for the critically acclaimed West End musical “Maddie”.

Award-winning Matthew Warchus will direct. His recent credits include the London musicals “Tell Me On A Sunday” and “Our House”, and the Yasmina Reza plays “Life x 3”, “The Unexpected Man” and “Art”. Award-winning Rob Howell will design. His recent West End credits include “Our House”, “Simply Heavenly”, “The Graduate”, “The Caretaker” and “Sophie’s Choice” at The Royal Opera House.

“THE LORD OF THE RINGS” will be produced by Kevin Wallace and Saul Zaentz. Kevin Wallace was in-house producer at The Really Useful Theatre Company from 1997-2001 when it produced the Andrew Lloyd Webber musicals “Whistle Down the Wind”, The Beautiful Game”, “Jesus Christ Superstar” and “Sunset Boulevard”. In 2001 he received an International EMMY Award as executive producer of the film version of “Jesus Christ Superstar”. His other London productions include the critically acclaimed “Gagarin Way” and “Eden”. The legendary Saul Zaentz, whose film productions include the award-winning “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”, “Amadeus”, “The Unbearable Lightness of Being” and “The English Patient”, was this year awarded the BAFTA ‘Academy Fellowship’.


News Archive

That was forwarded to us by Xoanan of, so thanks to him.

This next one came with a cover letter:

Hey Harry,

A buddy of mine has been working on this for some time, but its now official. He has managed to get the musical rights to Evil Dead 1 & 2 from Sam Raimi and Co. He's now getting it produced in Toronto and I wanted to try to give him a little promotion and I figured your readers would be all over this.

I've attached the audition notice.


And here’s the attachment:



Beyond Chutleigh Productions is pleased to announce open auditions for the upcoming production of the new musical based on the cult favourite films.


Sunday, June 8th 12:00noon – 5:00pm

Monday, June 9th 12:00noon – 5:00pm

Please Contact Melinda or call 905-279-8062 to book an audition slot.

All auditions will take place at:

Graduate Centre for the Study of Drama, University of Toronto Campus, 3rd Floor, 214 College St. (Enter off St. George street)

Please Prepare a musical piece. (Please bring sheet music)

Please Prepare a short (one minute) comic monologue.

Please bring theatre resume and headshot.

This production is non-Equity, non-paying.

Performance Dates:

August 13th-16th

August 20th-23rd

Rehearsals are Scheduled to begin June 15th.

For all other Inquires, please feel free to contact the Producer, Brad Lepp at

I can’t wait to see an interpretive dance number about a big goofy lunatic chasing his chopped-off hand around a cabin. Seriously.

"Moriarty" out.

Readers Talkback
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  • May 29, 2003, 9:36 a.m. CST

    "Yo ho ho, come get some!"

    by PacinoHatersGoHo

    Another reason why Canadians are cooler than Americans! I think a great casting choice would be Bruce Campbell as Ash....

  • May 29, 2003, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Evil Dead the Musical!...Already being done in Chicago!!

    by Josef K

    The New Millenium Theatre Company has been doing it for some time. They are having a special performance of the show at the Sci-fi convention on June 14. Hell, Capone mentions this in his AICN article. Here is the NMT website about the show with pics! Great show!

  • May 29, 2003, 10:08 a.m. CST

    You know, why not? Few realize BRAINDEAD was also a stageplay by

    by Pallando Blue

    (How's THAT for synchronicity of talkback, hmm?) Yep, same Fran Walsh and Stephen Sinclair, cowriters of both "The Two Towers" and "Braindead: The Movie" (hee hee). Can't remember the chronology--whether the movie or the play was done first or if they were concurrent--and I'm not sure if it was a musical. But, yep, "Braindead" was a full-blown and massively gory stage horror-comedy that was just as over the top as the flick. The first several rows of the audience would end up drenched in blood Carrie-style by the final curtain, like if Gallagher used zombies instead of watermelons, or a Blue Man Group show gone horribly, horribly awry. But laughing their horrified asses off the entire way! So... if "Evil Dead" is done in that spirit, I'll take 2 seats in the orchestra, thank you. :) *** The LOTR musical, however... As I've explained to my friends already, I will have nothing to do with it if it isn't written and produced by Andrew Lloyd Weber and titled "RINGS!"

  • Throw in Harvey Fierstein in drag as Gollum and you got my 75 dollars

  • May 29, 2003, 10:15 a.m. CST

    Where's my "Batman" musical?

    by 007-11

    Bunch of cockteases.

  • May 29, 2003, 10:19 a.m. CST

    What's that song that Leonard Nimoy sang years ago about "Bilbo!

    by Lance Rock

    someone sent me a link and it cracked me up--from some old variety tv show...

  • You know, with full chorus of orcs, goblins and nazgul. Actually, anything with a dancing nazgul would get my money, but I'm guessing they might go for a slightly more faithful approach. Only problem - HOW THE HELL WILL IT WORK ON STAGE? They gonna do a Wagnerian Ring cycle thing and have it over five days? Or are they going to cut it to the very bone, and have a quick dance to symbolise the entire journey from Hobbiton - Rivendell - through Moria - from Lothlorien to Mordor. Am soooooo sceptical

  • May 29, 2003, 11 a.m. CST

    But will it have breakdancing wizards?

    by RenoNevada2000

    Man, why does this sound about as bad an idea as that "Superman" musical from a few years back? (And I don't mean Margot Kidder's "Can You Read My Mind"!)

  • May 29, 2003, 11:05 a.m. CST

    LOTR musical sounds interesting.

    by nottoo

  • May 29, 2003, 11:07 a.m. CST

    Act: I; Scene: Rivendell (yes, back by popular demand, it's Frod

    by Miami Mofo

    Sing hey! for bath at close of day; that washes the weary mud away. A loon is he that will not sing: O! Water Hot is a noble thing. / Now Goldberry would have bathed with me; that lovely young wife of old Tommy B. But time constraints and PG-13; made sure this was something that would never be seen. / And Galadriel -- she's so far away; I'll take a bath with her another day. So Arwen won't you be a dear; just slip in this bath and was my rear. / Yes! wash my back and I'll wash yours; and pretty soon we'll be on all fours. Who cares if Aragorn will one day be King; for Water Hot is a noble thing.

  • May 29, 2003, 12:31 p.m. CST

    They Should Call It Evil Dead: The Rap Musical

    by PacinoHatersGoHo

    Ash: Chevy blazin in da wood/ bump bump bump go da hood/ chill beats, bitches in da back/ goin for a weekend in da shack/ got dark, we got off da track/ got to da door, wind make da house go crack/ words get recited bitches turn blue and black like coal/ Dead: We'll swallow ya soul/ We'll swallow ya soul/ Ash: I says come get some/ Dead: We'll chew your heart like bubble gum!/ Ash: Come get some come get some!! Dead: Bubble gum bubble gum!!!!

  • May 29, 2003, 12:46 p.m. CST

    ::loses a bet, sighs, and does the unthinkable:: ....I think the

    by XTheCrovvX

    "I feel too fabulous to let you pass, brother." ::shudder:: I can't belive i went through with that....last time I ever bet with someone over Ren and Stimpy trivia....Revolution is my name.

  • May 29, 2003, 12:53 p.m. CST

    Don't cry for me Minas Tirith!

    by morGoth

    I only hope that Madonna gets the nod for Galadriel. Michael Flatley as Legolas (the Bow Guy, right?) and Puff Daddy as Aragorn. Oh boy...NOW is the time to introduce the world to Tom Bombadil!

  • May 29, 2003, 12:56 p.m. CST

    new reality tv show "'Who wants to be Boomsticked?"

    by nomad202

    Seriously, they should record all these auditions and air them! I'd love to see these people try and replace bruce campbell and the demons...

  • May 29, 2003, 1:02 p.m. CST

    Of course, Miami, we know the choreography will be terrible

    by Pallando Blue

    'Cause after all, Zaentz can't dance. ;)

  • May 29, 2003, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Who wrote the songs for Rankin/Bass's "The Hobbit?"

    by mortsleam

    Cuz dat shit wuz dope! Or was that Lemmiwinks? "Oh, Lemmiwinks, Leeeemmmmeeeewinks!" *** How 'bout they write words to go along with Shore's score? "Fellowship of the Riiiing!/Two guys, a dwarf and hobbits/And don't forget the ellllf!/Or he'll shoooot you wiiiith his booooow!" *** Which is why I haven't written a musical yet...

  • May 29, 2003, 1:16 p.m. CST

    Lord of the Dance

    by Shaner Jedi

    LOTR - The Musical? Hmmm....Of course, Wagner's Ring Saga has enjoyed popularity for a century, so why not Tolkein's? Wagner's is an opera, but still they could really do something with Tolkein's to really stretch the boundaries of stage work. They really need to try and push the envelope though like Wagner's Ring Saga at the NY Met in the late 80's. How long has this been in development though? 2005 seems a little soon. They have a great director and two producers, but I wonder who will be doing the stage design? This could turn out well. Heck, Placido Domingo is doing Wagner at the LA Met with ILM, so maybe Zaentz can get WETA?

  • May 29, 2003, 2:34 p.m. CST

    link to bilbo baggins song from Nemoy

    by The_Great_Skeeve

    Too lazy to look up the exact link but go to and go into the "Sardonos Presents" area. Other funny stuff on there too.

  • May 29, 2003, 2:52 p.m. CST

    They had better do this thing good

    by Stormin

    Whoever these people are, they should do the following when making a LOTR musical: 1. Do it like the movies and have one production for each book, so not as much is cut. 2. Us at least the themes from Howard Shore's score if possible, simply because of its coolness. 3. MASSIVE BATTLES! I want a 12-foot cave troll!

  • May 29, 2003, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Which is the best "Lord"?

    by Smokey Leonard

    - of the Rings, - of the Dance or - of the Flies? Well, I enjoyed Riverdance more than The Hobbit... Seriously, if you haven't heard Leonard Nimoy's classic The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins get it now off Kazaa, it's almost as demented as William Shatner's cover of Mr. Tambourine Man.

  • May 29, 2003, 3:09 p.m. CST

    One of these projects...has a future! The other does not.

    by Vegas

    The future of which I speak is the future prospect of me ever buying a ticket, and the one with that future is EVIL DEAD: THE MUSICAL. As for singing hobbitry, I find them barely digestible in cinematic form, and have no intention of suffering self-important laments about heavy jewelry set to music. That is all.

  • May 29, 2003, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Wow! Since when does one Sea Bass = everybody?

    by morGoth


  • May 29, 2003, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Direct link to Bilbo

    by Pulzar711

    Here's a direct link to hot steamy Nimoy goodness:

  • May 29, 2003, 3:32 p.m. CST

    LOTR the musical

    by gingeracrockford

    I think the words bloody buggering hell sum my feelings up rather nicely.

  • May 29, 2003, 3:37 p.m. CST

    Meatloaf IS Gimli

    by Fred

  • May 29, 2003, 3:45 p.m. CST

    The Thrid and Final Sign of the Apocolypse

    by Van Damned

    I can't even wrap my brain around the concept that someone, somewhere thought a LOTR musical would be a good idea. The sad thing is, it will probably make money. And then they'll do the same thing with Harry Potter and whatever other blockbusters they can get thier hands on. Bring on the end of all that is: it's obviously that time. P.S.: If it isn't and the world somehow manages to limp along, sign me up for Andrew Lloyd Weber's "28 Days Later: The Musical". Might as well join the mob...

  • May 29, 2003, 3:59 p.m. CST

    One brilliant idea and a whole lotta wrong!

    by Johnny Ahab

    I am SO THERE for EVIL DEAD: THE MUSICAL! I can't wait to see Ash's girlfriend's head singing from the vice in the woodshed! As for RINGS: THE MUSICAL, Christ Almighty, is this just horrible. HORRIBLE.

  • May 29, 2003, 4:05 p.m. CST

    Good grief..

    by Sepulchrave

    .. a MUSICAL?! Are you people senile or something? This is the stupidest cheapest crappiest tackiest baseball cap wearing Nacho stuffing cottage-cheese-assed piece of stinking shit idea that I've ever had poured like cold vomit into my ears. Down with musicals, DOWN I SAY!!

  • May 29, 2003, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Sampling of LOTR musical numbers can be heard at:

    by Skyway Moaters Word of caution: Dont have a mouthfull of any beverage that stains fabric while listening to this stuff. Gauranteed to make you ROTFL...

  • May 29, 2003, 4:26 p.m. CST

    Hey, wait-a-minnit!

    by morGoth

    Could this be a hoax? Has anybody else been able to get to the "Official LoTR Musical Website?" It's either extremely busy (why on earth would it be?) or bogus. OK, maybe it's just the site that's bogus. Paranoia strikes deep! ** Everyone do themselves a favor and check out that site that Moaters has so kindly provided a url. It's a scream an' a half!

  • May 29, 2003, 4:57 p.m. CST

    Yeah, ok. I knew it! This whole world is just a Matrix-style co

    by McCormic

    The aliens who run it are constantly testing the limits to which I will accept the obsureing the edges of reality. Well, not this time bastards! I'm not accepting this!!!

  • May 29, 2003, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Yes. . . Meatloaf is Gimli. . .

    by McCormic

    . . . meatloaf is gimli. . .

  • May 29, 2003, 5:10 p.m. CST


    by BG

    Last night I was watching a TV program celebrating the anniversary of Sir Ed Hillary's climbing of Mt Everest. One of the groups to appear on the show was PJ with cast and crew live from the set of LOTR. PJ explained that they were currently shooting pick up shots for ROTK. Next to PJ were Bernard Hill and Viggo Mortensen, both were in full costume, with Bernard waving his sword around in celebration of Sir Ed's achievements.

  • May 29, 2003, 5:16 p.m. CST

    So what?

    by The Llama

    I worked for two summers in the Marquette University Archives while I did some graduate work there. The archives are the repository for all things Lord of the Rings, including all of the original manuscripts. The sheer number of plays, running the gamut from musicals to interpretive dance, is enormous. They've been written, produced, and performed for the fifty years that the books have been around--I am particularly reminded of a traveling production in the seventies whose playbills I catalogued that was a rendition of the story performed with live-sized puppets.

  • May 29, 2003, 5:39 p.m. CST

    To quote good old Samwise...

    by Vanyar

    "Well, I'm back." Assuming of course anyone remembers the poor old overworked Vanyar. Seems like an Age since I have visited these hallowed halls. Well, after retiring from the Army (25 years), moving back home to Texas (from VA), finding a job, getting a home, and getting DEEPLY immersed in my new job as an curriculum designer, I am finally surfacing for air. I see morGy is still here, and Moaters, and Elanor, and Conan and too many others to mention. So, what shall we talk about, eh? Glad to be back by the hearthside. Vanyar

  • May 29, 2003, 5:56 p.m. CST

    Awp! Vanyar...

    by morGoth

    ...erm, talk about anything that's on topic lest ye suffer the wrath of YOU KNOW WHO! ** Yeah, there have been various productions at various scales of the Hobbit and LoTR but NEVER a musical of this magnitude. If it's true, that is. My only hope is that Check Negron and the rest of Three Dog Night are brought back together so they can sing "One, is the loneliest Ring Sauron ever made."

  • May 29, 2003, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Yeah but "Reservoir Dogs The Play" was the shiz...

    by KryptonsLastSon

    Gun play on stage and an ear being cut off a cop live... now theres some stiff competition come Tony time.

  • May 29, 2003, 6:44 p.m. CST

    Fat Chicks In Chainmail

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    I seem to recall that there is already at least one opera based on LOTR - was it Finnish, or something? Opera I could see - people can conjure up the patience to sit there and listen to opera for as long as it take to tell the story of LOTR. But for some reason right now I'm channelling "Frodooo of the NINE fingers, and the Ring of Dooooom" and let me tell you, the experience is NOT pleasant. (Waves at Tailenders) Hi guys, long time no chat, been busy. As for the Evil Dead musical - I'm so there.

  • May 29, 2003, 6:55 p.m. CST

    Opera over musical

    by daughter of time

    Yes, a good long operatic cycle would work, but not a musical. The problem with musicals is that they have to keep going in and out of song, whereas an opera can just keep you immersed in the whole bigger-than-life dramatic flow. This is why operas can have silly lyrics and still move you literally beyond words, whereas the musical, with its fits and starts, keeps pulling back to remind you that "it's only a performance." Enjoyable, frequently, but just not the same level of rapture - as any opera lover will tell you.

  • May 29, 2003, 7:10 p.m. CST

    Matthew Warchus etc.

    by Schnorbitz

    Now, Matthew Warchus is a very good stage director indeed. His version of Cosi Fan Tutte at English National Opera last year was quite simply superb, and we mustn't forget he struck something extremely right with "Art". As for unsuitable musicals, I laughed out loud at (The Silence of the Lambs - The Musical), although you'll need a very strong stomach to get through track 2. And I will be starring myself as the eponymous hero in "An Evening With Joe - Stalin The Musical in Edinburgh this August (see And may I be allowed to repeat my previous pun? Will it include the song "You're Getting to be a Hobbit With Me"? See 42nd Street for the original.

  • May 29, 2003, 7:13 p.m. CST

    Oh, and of course we mustn't forget...

    by Schnorbitz, now playing at London's National Theatre.

  • May 29, 2003, 8:46 p.m. CST

    I just cannot fathom it

    by elanor

    Matthew Warchus is indeed a good director but I have yet to hear anyone from this production say how LONG their musical plans to be. While I'm waiting, I will hope with every fiber of my soul that it is a hoax. I talked to a guy today who knows Mr. Warchus and I begged him to find out for me what the plan is. I said to him what I don't understand is, if it's going to be LOTR in THREE HOURS, who would want to see it? And if it's going to be LOTR in NINE hours, how are they going to sell it? I love musicals but I don't see this one happening. Someone might have a chance at opera but... Aiiiiiii!***I just remembered, a friend of mine and I once began work on a musical version of Beowulf. But, then again, we abandoned it.***On the other hand, Evil Dead has possiblities ever since Urinetown and Little Shop of Horrors.***as for joke casting in the musical, how about Nathan Lane for Bombadil, David Bowie for Saruman and Avril Lavigne(sp?) as Gollum.

  • May 29, 2003, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Sam's lass guts popster near Budge Ford!

    by morGoth

    Gollum indeed! What a wicked, yet exquisite, thing you are. I think I have it though, I'd go with your three hour time but only as a parody. Now I WOULD go see a Bored of the Rings musical!

  • May 29, 2003, 9:17 p.m. CST

    That's the beauty of an opera

    by daughter of time

    A LOT can happen between acts. Look at "Il Trovatore" - a battle takes place and people are captured, and it's all off-stage. Zip! to "Di quella pira!" Zip! to the dungeons. In opera, you could cut straight from Shelob to the Tower to the slopes of Mt. Doom, with recitative from Sam to catch us up. And by the way, if they are going to do operas, books III and IV should be done on separate evenings, or there is no hope. On the other hand, you could have a killer Quintet with the Mouth of Sauron, Aragorn and Gandalf on one side of the stage (or at the bottom of the set) and Frodo and Sam at the top. Maybe for added creepiness, Gollum could be a trouser role (for the non-opera lovers, a woman playing a man) to give him that slightly off-kilter feeling.

  • May 29, 2003, 9:44 p.m. CST

    What about...

    by Johnny Smith

    Terence Mann as Elrond? Oh come on, all you Les Mis fans were thinking it. "Stab me now or stab me later, every Ringwraith to his sport, death to each and every Wizard, I renounce..." uh, something relevant. Anyway, eat it, Stillson, I'm out. - JS.

  • May 29, 2003, 10:40 p.m. CST

    Best TB In Months

    by Boxcutter

    This is more like it. Big up to Schnorbitz for nailing the LOTR hit song. Other show-stoppers will doubtless include: "Wide-eyed and Legolas", "Hard Hobbit To Break", "Ent Misbehavin", "Balrog Blitz" and (That's enough crap puns - Ed.)

  • May 29, 2003, 11:23 p.m. CST

    By purist coincidence

    by daughter of time

    I wandered over to Sam Goody tonight, and thought to check for the FOTR sheet music that they had never had before - and there it was. My piano skills are fairly dormant, but I could muddle through... enough to gain a whole new appreciation for the genius of Howard Shore, who is already in the process of giving us a 12-hour opera, or as near as makes no difference. Bring on the deluxe set of THAT, and you can keep your musical!

  • May 30, 2003, 1:23 a.m. CST

    Proof to me that producers do nothing...

    by Dracos

    Is Saul Zaentz producing an LOTR musical (or anything, for that matter). That greedy little fucktard should strung up by his short hair (singular) so every member of Tolkien's family can publicly stone him in Trafalgar Square, then rob him of every cent he's every made off of anything related to Middle Earth. He's just going to "produce" himself another paycheck which he doesn't deserve. Mother of God, how I hate that clod of shit who failed at aspiring to be a human being.

  • May 30, 2003, 9:35 a.m. CST

    It's been done!

    by m2298

    MAD magazine had a LORD OF THE RINGS musical parody in issue #210 (Oct. 1979) titled "The Ring and I".

  • May 30, 2003, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Good news on the sheet music

    by mortsleam

    I've been noodling around on my keyboard ever since last December, and managed to figger out the Hobbiton Theme and much of the Bridge of Khazad-Dum, and I'd like to see how close my ear came to reality. I'll have to get meself over to a Sam Goody and pick it up. The best part about my trusty rusty ol' Yamaha is I can nearly approximate most of the instrumentation, accompanying myself on strings, brass and woodwinds. Although I can't quite match the Finnish Fiddle in the Rohan theme. In the meantime, I'll be busy reconfiguring Beatles songs for the LOTR musical. Gollum's Theme: "Gollum is he as Smeagol is he as Stupid Fat Hobbitses is he and we are all together...."

  • May 30, 2003, 10:21 a.m. CST

    Mort, don't forget 'The Steward with Manson-esque Eyes'

    by Miami Mofo

    sung, of course, to the tune of 'Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds'. morGoth and I started (but never finished) it years ago during Harry's trip to N.Z., when the red-headed wonder wrote about John Noble and his Manson-esque eyes. So, "Picture yourself in a boat on the Anduin, followed by a 'log' in the water and Orcs all around. ..."

  • May 30, 2003, 10:42 a.m. CST


    by Schnorbitz

    I never knew there were so many people who post on Aint It Cool who know about opera (er, about two). I'm afraid I've only been to see about 10 or so operas in my time, but the number is slowly growing. Fact: Susan Gritton is the sister of one my music teachers at my old school. And I can't think of any more "good" bad puns. Only bad bad puns. Like "Brush Up Your Elvish" or "Gollum Man River".

  • May 30, 2003, 10:45 a.m. CST

    Dang Miami, now I'm not gonna get any work done!

    by mortsleam

    Captain Aragorn's Northern Ranger Band. With A Little Help From My Fellowship. The Steward With The Manson-esque Eyes. It's Getting Heavier All The Time. Fixing A Stew. He's Leaving Hobbiton. Being For The Benefit Of Mister Bilbo. With Ent, Without Ent. When I'm Elevety-One. Lovely Arwen, Elven Maid. Grey Havens Grey Havens. King Elessar (Captain Aragorn's reprise). A Page From The Red Book.***Don't think the lyrics aren't on their way!

  • May 30, 2003, 11:35 a.m. CST

    Sheet music NOT the complete score

    by daughter of time

    Far from it: no "Hobbiton" or "Khazad-Dum." But still fun... though, mortsleam, if you can pick out what you have on the piano you may be way ahead. One of the things I can still actually play on the piano from memory is a small montage from "El Cid" that I worked out for myself when I was in fifth grade... primitive but satisfying. I no longer have such skills - and if you are adding orchestration, you are way beyond me! I actually hadn't touched my piano in years, and just sat down the other day with some old Gaelic songbooks, and now FOTR. Sadly, I no longer have a voice, and I used to have a very good one. Suppose I could get most of it back, but don't want to torment the neighbors in the process.... I haven't just lost my high C; I've lost the whole octave under it! It surprises me that "In Dreams" has been attached only to "Fellowship," because it's hard to imagine a song more appropriate to the post-Grey Havens. ***And by the way, a few more photos are on a link at TORN, including one of Frodo covered in spiderweb and looking anxious IN ITHILIEN. Figure that one out. And also (SPOILER) apparently the Eowyn-Faramir romance is greatly toned down, though still present, and little or nothing in the Houses of Healing. This is from Miranda Otto herself. Un!Faramir continues.... And the purist in me, for which I make no apologies, is deeply disappointed.

  • May 30, 2003, 11:39 a.m. CST

    More stuff on TORN

    by daughter of time

    And also, PJ is working to cut his initial 4 hour cut of ROTK down to 3 hours and 10 minutes. Does that not make you ill? I hope all fifty minutes of that make it back into the SEV - WITH the other hour already cut! I really, really, really think the last theatrical version should have been all five hours with an intermission... but nobody listens to me.

  • May 30, 2003, 11:42 a.m. CST

    How about

    by Shards of Narsil

    I've grown accustomed to the rune...only visible by moon

  • May 30, 2003, 11:50 a.m. CST

    Disappointed, but not surprised.

    by Miami Mofo

    With so much to do and so little time, we all knew that something more than SotS had to be cut. What else remains to be seen, but I'm sure this is not our last 'disappointment.' Fortunately, there's always THE BOOK!!!!!!!!!

  • May 30, 2003, 12:14 p.m. CST

    Wow! What a great site!!!!!!!!!

    by Miami Mofo

    I'm talking about that 'quintisential' website that TORn has a link to. That's where the pictures that DoT was refering to are located, along with countless others. A major BRAVO from the Mofo to whomever set up that site. I urge you all to visit -- unless you absolutely, positvely DON'T WANT ANY SPOILERS! [But the pictures are soooo cool. ;~)]

  • May 30, 2003, 12:21 p.m. CST

    What? You want an example?

    by Miami Mofo

    Feeling lazy on a Friday, eh? OK, I'll give you an example to pique your interest: there's a really cool pic of Merry & Pippin looking very satisfied in a storeroom of the recently destroyed Isengard that I had not seen before. Hooray for 'Flotsam And Jetsam'!!!!!!!!!

  • May 30, 2003, 12:49 p.m. CST

    Right about musical LOTR

    by Shaner Jedi

    Yeah, it would almost need to be adapted into opera to really work. That way you could have wall-to-wall music and lyrics, and it would fit the tone of the larger than life moments of the story. This certainly has potential, but as DoT suggested, they may just have a standard musical. I'm not sure how well that would work. Could be hokey as hell. There are plenty of songs throughout, but it deserves a full-operatic adaptation I say. And I was serious about WETA and the its workshop being involved. ILM has been collaborating with Placido Domingo for a year now in creating a state-of-the-art Ring Cycle. The first one will debut in the fall of this year at the LA MET. The other works will follow in 6 month intervals. They could do the same thing with LOTR, but will they?

  • May 30, 2003, 4:19 p.m. CST


    by daughter of time

    There is definitely SEV spoilerage to be found there, not to mention a wealth of photos and concept art. Frodo possessed by the Ring en route to Osgiliath? Chewing Sam out for talking about how the Ring possessed Boromir? Frodo sleeping at the campsite? When DID he lose his jacket - and yet they kept all their pans? And Saruman's larder... wonderful!

  • May 30, 2003, 5:09 p.m. CST


    by morGoth

    Saw the Merry and Pippin in Saruman

  • May 30, 2003, 5:29 p.m. CST

    Darn it all

    by daughter of time

    Who's going to warm up Eowyn, if not Faramir? These things aren't done all in a minute.... And yes, what of cloaks and hair and all streaming mingled in the wind... after long and suitably gentle courtship? And what does the lack of H. of H. do for Aragorn establishing his credentials? I for one would rather see him heal-as-king than wield Anduril, almost.

  • May 30, 2003, 6:32 p.m. CST

    And what about Ioreth?

    by Miami Mofo

    I shall now reveal a secret that NOONE, and I mean NOONE knows (cause I just made it up), a secret which I am telling in the strict confidence that all of you can keep it to yourselves and not tell a soul. OK, here goes: I have searched the birth records of Minas Tirith, and I can state with supreme confidence that (lowers voice to a barely audible whisper) Ioreth is Ingold's mom. ISN'T THAT JUST UNfrigginBELIEVEABLE!?!?!?!?! So if there's no H. of H., and thus no Ioreth, not only will we not know who the true King is, but we won't have the Wallbuilder either! And after reading his posts these past few years, I state unequivocably that THIS WOULD BE TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE! TOTALLY! ***Btw, Conan, that Quintessental [and aren't I glad that I was taught how to spell that word today ;~)] website has pointed out that those captions you were so worried about last week have been changed. They make much more sense now. "Failing at the Paths of the Dead" indeed! ***morGoth: That look on M & P's faces is their obvious delight at finding PIPEWEED!!!!!!!!!, dontcha think? :~)

  • May 30, 2003, 6:38 p.m. CST

    Damned typos!

    by Miami Mofo

    That's Q U I N T E S S E N T I A L

  • May 30, 2003, 10:57 p.m. CST

    Perhaps now I can tone down my rhetoric...

    by Conan_the_Humble

    I am somewhat relieved by the pics at quintessential. Still, the news of PJ cutting ROTK down to 3hrs 10min isn't all that encouraging. I still believe they erred in choosing to show only half of TTT in TTT and leaving alot of TTT for ROTK. (Does that make sense, hmmm.) Cheers.

  • May 31, 2003, 3:28 a.m. CST

    Makes perfect sense, Conan

    by daughter of time

    They cut all that stuff out of TTT to move to ROTK, only to have two hours of extra stuff they can't fit into ROTK. Darned frustrating! Especially as we keep learning more and more of what wasn't in there in the first place, such as SOTS and Houses of Healing.

  • May 31, 2003, 4:38 a.m. CST

    Thank you D.O.T. Praise from the praise worthy...

    by Conan_the_Humble

    I looked at my last post after posting (hmm, I think I've done it again...) it and thought I'd again corrupted this language of ours... Ah well, nobody is 'marking' this so it doesn't really matter I guess. Anyhoo, I hope that PJ et al aren't forced to cut too much from this film due to 'perceived' commercial realities. I honestly do think with this movie they could make it 4 hours plus and it wouldn't deter the movie going public. Certainly not this member of it at any rate and probably not anyone who visits these TB's!!! Cheers.

  • May 31, 2003, 6:35 a.m. CST

    It's all economics; aka, Thank Eru for the SEV's!!!!!!!!!

    by Miami Mofo

    Unfortunately for the fans of the book, a four hour movie would mean that there would be one less showing per day per screen as compared with a three hour version. And since it would more than likely be a maximum of three times per screen per day for a four hour movie versus four times per screen per day for a three hour movie, you're talking about a 25% reduction in box office per screen per day. Now with 1.8 billion in combined ticket sales for LotR:FotR and LotR:T2T, I quite frankly think that P.J. and New Line could have given us the gift of a four hour movie. But in doing so, N.L. would have seriously cut into the take that the theatre chains receive, most of whom are emerging from hard times and even bankruptcy. Theatre chains are counting on LotR:RotK big time! The economic effect our beloved book has had on the entertainment industry the past few years has been astounding. So, we must shoulder the burden regarding "what's missing", exalt in what we see on the big screen, cause it's sure better than we ever dared to hope for, and be satisfied with the knowledge that a lot of "what's missing" was filmed, and will show up on the SEV's [but not SotS :~( ], for the SEV's are truly for us, lovers of The Book.

  • May 31, 2003, 11:22 a.m. CST

    We may understand economics, but we don't have to love them

    by daughter of time

    My formative years were spent going to one glorious long movie after another - "Ben-Hur," "Spartacus," "El Cid," "Lawrence of Arabia," "Nicholas and Alexandra" - where the choice was often matinee or evening performance, and they ran intermissions. Even "The Towering Inferno" had an intermission! Three-and-a-half hours was nothing. And the seats in those days were a lot more uncomfortable than they are now. Anyway still remember the old Mad magazine spoof of "Flawrence of Arabia," where one panel had the audience storming the concession stand at intermission, desperate for water, soda, a "2 cents plain"? Milling around in the lobby wondering what was going to happen next, and going back to your seat to be treated to an "Intermezzo" was part of the whole dragging-out-the-pleasure experience. ***Saw "Finding Nemo" last night. It was delightful. Be sure to sit through the credits.

  • May 31, 2003, 12:53 p.m. CST

    I want to echo Elanor: "Just how effing long....

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... is this damn thing be?! TO portray a

  • May 31, 2003, 1:18 p.m. CST


    by morGoth were saying? Heh, jet lag gotcha 'er sumpthin'? ** Derp! So, what other shoe is going to drop before Dec. 17th? Just when I started feeling better after that "Ressurect the Dead from the Marshes!" rumor was squashed, now it's no four hour RoTK! Yeah, yeah Miami, I hear ya but I don't like it either. Now, we'll have to wait almost another year (Nov. 2004!) before we see the definitive RoTK. Bother and confuscate! Snif, no Ghan-buri-ghan either I s'pose. Well, at least Jackson said the whole stairs of Cirith Ungol bit will be in. I'm guessing that's where Gollum gets his flashback to 'fishing with Deagol' moment. Personally, I'd much rather see an abbreviated HoH than, what seems to me at this point, a needless flashback by Gollum. Well, include it in the SEV but I agree with DoT; Is Aragorn's only visible claim to his lineage for the masses to be Anduril? Kinda turns him into a bit of a 2-D character in that respect. Well, it's Jackson's movie and I guess we WILL see but I still can't see why he didn't end TTT like the book. Especially, as ya'll have pointed out, he's dropping things from RoTK. Then again, when he says "...I never know when it's finished." I guess he can end up re-editing the whole shooting match someday. I know "The Finally (Really! THIS Time!) Correctly Edited With Everything That Should've Been There In The First Place Extended Version." coming around the year 2011. At least that's when I plan to retire so maybe I'll FINALLY have time to sit down and watch the whole thing un-interrupted! ** Miami, oh yeah, you know they have "that look ." Heh, jist like you did when you found that spliff in the 7-11 parking lot!

  • May 31, 2003, 1:33 p.m. CST

    In the future morGoth, I would appreciate it if you would keep y

    by Miami Mofo

    It was a Burger King parking lot. ;~)

  • May 31, 2003, 1:46 p.m. CST

    I want to echo Elanor: How effing long is this damn thing gonna

    by Skyway Moaters

    I mean, to portray the ENTIRE tale with any thing approaching any resemblance to the source material the bugger would have to 9 to 12 hours long buy my guesstimate! And I agree that an opera of sorts would better serve the good Professor's story than a "Broadway Musical", in tone and sensibilty at the very least. Let me put it this way. If somebody figured out suitable way of adressing the length issue, and had the right composer and librettist it could be great. If you had the wrong combination, it could be woefuly BAD! Here's an here's an example comparison to illustrate what I mean: Give it to someone like Sondheim; think Sweeny Todd crossed with Westside

  • May 31, 2003, 2:14 p.m. CST

    Goddamned laptop keyboard... grumble... grumble...

    by Skyway Moaters


  • May 31, 2003, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Here's the whole friggin' post, grrr...

    by Skyway Moaters

    I mean, to portray the ENTIRE tale with anything approaching any resemblance to the source material, the bugger would have to be 9 to 12 hours long by my guesstimatimation. And I agree that a production that is at least an opera of sorts, something 'opera like', 'modern opera', at least... would better serve the good professor's story than a "Broadway Musical" would, in tone and sensibility at the very least. Let me put it this way. If somebody figured out a suitable way of addressing the length issue, and had the right composer and librettist it could be great. If you had the wrong combination, it could be woefully BAD! Here's an here's an example comparison to illustrate what I mean - Good Broadway vs Bad Broadway: Give it to someone like Sondheim; think Sweeny Todd crossed with Westside Story, crossed with Sunday in the Park with George, with a dash of KELT, and a healthy splash of Howard Shore's ideas for the film scores; it could be a Juggernaut! You hand it over to Andrew Lloyd Webber for the Star Light Express treatment, and it could be the biggest turkey of all time: Three or four hours long, incomprehensible, and just generally SUCKS. *** Any body ever have THIS idea before? What about a LOTR ROCK, Opera?! Hmmmm, just ruminate o THAT for a minute... Anyway, a "REAL" opera cycle of sorts would probably be my first choice for having a chance to convey the story in anything like a meaningfull way though, were I asked to pick...

  • May 31, 2003, 4:03 p.m. CST

    Burger King schmurger ding...

    by morGoth

    ...the important thing is WHAT you found! Man, and all I ever got from the BK Lounge was some spiffy Fellowship TALKING! figures and groove-a-mundo goblets. Well, that along with heartburn and cholestrol. Snif, such is my Sooty Life.

  • May 31, 2003, 4:27 p.m. CST

    I agree with Miami

    by elanor

    I agree with everything you said in that post about exulting in the film and luckily having the book, too. I have no idea what to expect any more from ROTK. Sometimes I let myself worry that PJ will have Frodo die on the way back from Mt. Doom (Galadriel's comment "the Quest will claim his life") but then I say never fear, because I know I will end up with all the SEV's and all the behind the scenes footage and someone will come up with a way for us to cut everything together in our own IEV's. Then we can have contests over who's cut is the absolute best.***MorG, glad I made ya laugh with my Gollum casting.*** I got my Fan mag yesterday and read it cover to cover. Boy would I like to get PJ in a room and argue the worth of SOTS to him to my heart's content. I know it's too late for the film but boy do I think he's wrong about it. I can understand that it may be "wrong" to include in a film (although I have many workable ideas on that score) but the quote makes it sound like he's saying he felt it was "wrong" in the book!!!!! If that's true, I can only be thankful that he managed to "get" so much else in the book. I have pictured long, drawn out fights between PJ and Fran and Phillipa in which the ladies make brilliant point after brilliant point and back PJ into a corner but in the end, Fran says - he's the father of my children and I'd rather stay with him than leave him so let him have his way. And then Phillipa goes off and sulks and shakes her fist, Gollum-like and promises herself that she'll remake the damn thing her way one day.

  • June 1, 2003, 9:58 a.m. CST


    by Xyzan

    No houses of Healing? At all? Why is Merry being picked on? All of his best lines are being cut, and we don't like it. We're missing out on perfect swoon moments. Sigh. I know this is going to be a great film, but i'm missing so much of what could have been in it. But Torn have a link (i don't know it, but Soilers?) on Haldir at the end of the film. i doubt it'll make it to the final version, if they choose to add something like that, they'll more than likely go with Beren and Luthien. Still not sure that'll work, as i want it to end with either 'I'm back' or 'the last of the ringbearers' in the prologue. ah well, This whole town's lost it's nuts.

  • June 1, 2003, 10:22 a.m. CST

    AGAIN, I have to echo Elanor

    by Skyway Moaters

  • June 1, 2003, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Nice to see so many worrying along with me

    by daughter of time

    I think that when PJ's comments about SOTS became public, they banished forever the "trust PJ" mantra, as they effectively demonstrated that however he may *love* the book, he doesn't truly understand it, and that his decisions are *not* based on what is cinematic but on what bores him. (And my imagination also tends to go with Elanor's scenario about Fran and Philippa's losing battle against the let's-just-fill-the-time-up-with-cool-battles! contingent.) Whatever happened to the "this is really Frodo's journey" theme that we heard so much of in the earlier commentary? I'm beginning to be afraid that after the climax of Aragorn's coronation (the story now being all about Men), someone - maybe Frodo himself - will just decide he's just too damaged and is not going home to the Shire (sniff, sniff!), give his "someone has to give things up" speech on the spot, and they will all go straight to the Grey Havens. Is the shot of Sam running home to a toddler some kind of prophetic flash-forward of Frodo's? Anyway, as Xyzan says, we have lost masses of potential swoonage that we were all looking forward to a year ago.... I had already lost almost all of it regarding Faramir, but had hoped for him to regain ground in HoH. I just loved Aragorn recalling him to life... not to mention passing his hand through Merry's hobbit curls. And what is with Aragorn kneeling by Eowyn's bedside before leaving for Gondor! The man is screwing with her head....

  • June 1, 2003, 12:33 p.m. CST

    Re: the Sun

    by daughter of time

    So I'm not the only person who thought Hugh Jackman could sing Aragorn!

  • June 1, 2003, 3:02 p.m. CST

    There's an echo in

    by elanor

    Well, thanks Moaters.*** But DoT, I wouldn't want anyone to interpret my comments about SOTS quite that far. I still "trust PJ" despite his SOTS misstep. I don't connect it to a broader misunderstanding of the whole story. I think his emphasis on the battles in T2T is legitimate and I have no problem so far with his beefing up the "story of men". I see enough evidence in the SEV's of the centrality of Frodo's story. I think he has made and will continue to make choices that favor battles and men in his theatrical edits for obvious widest-acceptance reasons, which I understand as a business reality. If I find myself let down by the theatrical release of ROTK I will simply look forward to the release of the SEV. And if I'm let down by that I will still, always be grateful that the story was filmed as beautifully and amazingly as it was, and continue to hope that in my lifetime, someone will do it even better, i.e. more to my taste than he has. And, I will continue to re-read the book!

  • June 1, 2003, 5:46 p.m. CST

    Not misinterpreting you, Elanor

    by daughter of time

    I didn't think for a minute you'd become less of a champion of TTT, but I do think somewhere along the journey, some subtle influences began to be lost. Obviously, however they tilt it, the movies will be full of great stuff - just not as great as they might have been, if the action crowd hadn't had quite so much clout. I myself think they are underestimating the audience, as even my every-other-Sunday breakfast companions, who will cheerfully go to any Jackie Chan or Matrix or X-Men film going, as long as the images move quickly across the screen, and rarely criticize anything (typical response to even the worst-reviewed is an enthusiastic: "We really enjoyed it!"), said recently (and with NO prompting from me; I had merely said I wished we could see an ROTK trailer anytime soon) that they hoped ROTK would come back up to the standard set of FOTR, but after TTT, they were braced for disappointment. One of them has never read the books, the other too long ago to remember, so I think they are as representative of the mass audience as anyone. As I said above, we can understand economic influences without having to like them, but no one has ever put it to the test whether a more-purist version would pull in the audiences. (I am not talking about retaining Tom Bombadil!) From the comments I heard after FOTR came out, there were a lot of people who actually had their tastes educated, and I think this could have continued, and that they would have still flocked to the movies (I myself think the bigger take for the second was simply that a lot of people caught the first on video, and it was better distributed overseas) even without the overwhelming battles. So far, for ROTK, we've had some wonderful images that promise great scenes - but we've also heard of a lot of quiet moments not even being filmed (so they cannot be in the SEV) while we are promised "battles that make Helm's Deep look like a skirmish!" And those were the same studio voices that were promising me that TTT would be "better" than the first film. And for me, they were wrong. I still hope that ROTK will be the best yet, if only for the emotional content of Frodo's segment and the coolness of various characters in armor, but I am certainly not going into it with the same trust as I did TTT.

  • June 1, 2003, 9:34 p.m. CST


    by Loyal Deadite

    Who knew Ash was such a good ventriloquist? ....Somebody has to know what Im talking about...

  • June 2, 2003, 8:32 a.m. CST


    by Miami Mofo

    Both won MTV's best picture, didn't they? ;~)

  • June 2, 2003, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Just checking to see if we're still hosed.

    by daughter of time

    I didn't do it; I swear! Has anyone heard anything about when we are actually going to see some moving images (that is to say, physically moving; they are all moving emotionally) from ROTK? Do we have to wait for the DVD? What are they thinking?

  • You wrote "And my imagination also tends to go with Elanor's scenario about Fran and Philippa's losing battle against the let's-just-fill-the-time-up-with-cool-battles! contingent." To me, that strongly suggests that I also believe in the existence of a "let's just fill the time up with cool battles!" contingent, which I don't. It also implies that I wrote something like that. I didn't. My "Phillipa and Fran losing battle" scenario was about SOTS alone. I think a person (in this case, PJ) can misunderstand the meaning and importance of SOTS without being a "let's just fill the time up with cool battles!" person. I don't see PJ that way. I know you do. You and I differ on this. Which is cool. And anyway, since SOTS includes a battle, if PJ really wanted to fill the time up with battles perhaps he could be persuaded to include SOTS by this argument???? JUST KIDDING! This is all a function of having too much time on my hands!

  • June 2, 2003, 8:05 p.m. CST

    Picky, picky, picky

    by daughter of time

    The only reason I've been hanging out here is because my own writing has bogged down, so I'm not in the best of moods. In fact, would like to just crawl into a fetal position, if only someone else would carry on for me. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with it.

  • June 2, 2003, 9:54 p.m. CST

    Awp! Elanor-lass an' DoT hosed the posting order!

    by morGoth

    This is a FIRST at AICN! Yeah, and mumak may fly out of my Sooty Nostril! Shudder, there must be some bannin' goin' on. No, no moving pictures DoT, sorry. Only still pic'sess and dust. Hey, speaking of nit-picks, here's one me an' Vanyar have been bandying about: When we see the Easterlings marching up to the Morannon (Two Towers, duh!), they're coming from the south. Huh? Shouldn't they be coming in from the east? Even worse, Vanyar found a still pic (it may be in the TTT SEV) of the formation and their banner shows a red and gold serpent! Huh II? That's the Southron's banner! Yeah, thas right morG AND, where were the serpent banners (not to mention ANY red!) that the Southron's were s'posed to be carrying? Derp! That does it, not only do I not trust PJ anymore, but I'm going to withdraw the Tailenders support for these films! That's right and I may not be gainsayed, said, sed...oh, whatever! Garn, I'm only funnin' ya'll. I still trust PJ even if he is a blockhead for not including SoTS. In fact, I think he's perfect...a perfect ninnyhammer!

  • June 2, 2003, 11:48 p.m. CST

    Calendar pages

    by daughter of time

    I just wrote a bit, after hours of blank-page torture, so need to let the dust settle.... My calendar now has Eowyn, otherwise known as Miss June, which is nice, but I'm glad my birthday month has hobbitses. Yes, hobbitses, up to the ankles in sludgy water of Isengard. And I hadn't really noticed it before, but that is some cool blade Pippin is carrying. I can just hardly wait to see him in that beautiful black and silver armor. My "trust PJ" mantra may have faltered, but I sure do trust those art designers. And I am really looking forward to the MTV awards, knowing in advance we won! Hurrah! And also, we are unhosed, unless this does it again.

  • June 3, 2003, 4:35 a.m. CST

    More evidence of 'lets have MORE battles'

    by Conan_the_Humble

    This time from the very mouth of PJ in an interview over at TORN, it goes like this, Q. "Why did you add Aragorn's agony scene? A. "We did that for several reasons. I

  • June 3, 2003, 11:41 a.m. CST

    Miami Mofo's 'Crackpot' LotR:RotK theories:

    by Miami Mofo

    ONE: In the LotR:FotR SEV, Galadriel tells Aragorn that they will not meet again. I was somewhat surprised by this for why wouldn't G attend her own Granddaughter's wedding? The answer, of course, is that Arwen will not marry Aragorn, she will wed King Elessar. TWO: Everyone will know that Aragorn is King Elessar not because he has "the hands of a healer," but because he has cut down Sauron with Anduril just like Isildur did with Narsil. THREE: Aragorn will not receive the reforged Narsil until AFTER the battle of the Pelennor, and it will ONLY be used to slay Sauron -- no wasting Anduril on mere Orc necks -- OK, maybe the Mouth also. FOUR: Like Moses and the Promised Land, Frodo will not enter, but only see The Shire from a distance as he, Sam, Merry, Pippin, Gandalf,, journey directly from Minas Tirith to The Grey Havens where Bilbo will be waiting. FIVE: The movie WILL end with Sam, Merry and Pippin returning to The Shire, Sam taking his leave of M & P, entering his garden, picking up his daughter Elanor, and then turning to face the camera he will say, "Mofo you idiot, you've got it all wrong! How can I have a daughter if I just returned to The Shire? Rosie and I haven't even got hitched yet." Umm, let me think about that for one minute ... Hold it, I know! -- Merry and Pippin, those laugh-a-minute practical jokers, put a pin hole in that rubber you bought in the Green Dragon's Mens Room the night before you left!!! [Or so we will discover when the SEV is released.] P.S. I hope this "discovery" doesn't upset 'our' elanor. ;~)

  • June 3, 2003, 12:12 p.m. CST

    Well said, Conan!

    by daughter of time

    And you didn't even mention that the warg attack also violates PJ's previously-stated rule of thumb "Anything that doesn't advance Frodo's story..." Well, it doesn't. It fact, it not only fails to advance Frodo's story, it sends Aragorn's story on a long, absurd detour. If PJ wanted wargs so badly (and, ahem, these are not Tolkien's wargs - PJ just wanted to play with some big, monster dogs), why take out Tolkien's own exciting attack in "Fellowship"? Besides, a glimpse or two of Tolkien-wargs-in-battle would have been more intriguing than these giant bounding-about-jaws-snapping THINGS, of which one or two should have been more than a match for any number of Rohirrim spears and horses. I have never seen the point of that drawn-out trek to Helm's Deep; they could have kept in that shot of the refugees by the lake and conveyed it all. (And, though Eowyn is charming en route, hasn't she endured the death of a beloved cousin sometime in the last 24 hours, not to mention other things that ought to make her a bit less light-hearted than the lass we see laughing at Gimli's antics?) I just don't see how much more evidence we need to see that PJ is battle-and-monster-happy to the extent he doesn't care if it takes time away from far more emotionally affecting scenes. Myself, I'd trade the whole warg sequence for a decent-length, in-context (not strolling through the woods) scene between Frodo and Sam about their place in the tale.

  • June 3, 2003, 12:15 p.m. CST

    Miami, I think you're on to something

    by daughter of time

    In fact, I don't even want to speculate about how close you might have come, a couple of places there.

  • June 3, 2003, 1:41 p.m. CST

    In fact, maybe five or six places! <nt>

    by daughter of time

  • June 3, 2003, 4:15 p.m. CST

    I take back one thing - aka, one last 'theory' for the road

    by Miami Mofo

    Anduril will not slay the Mouth of Sauron. The Mouth will be forever shut by none other than, drum roll please, Pippin!, who freaks out when shown Frodo's cloak and broach, thus giving him something to do that more closely approaches Merry's heroic deed. ***Btw, I proclaim that the first Tuesday in every month [especially November :~)] shall heretofore be known as "Wild Speculation Day". Every other day of the month shall be "Mere Speculation Day." There is a difference, you know.

  • June 3, 2003, 5:42 p.m. CST


    by BG

    ... and no. To all the "the glass is half empty" people (you know who you are); I wish to announce that "the glass is half full!" Half full of glorious Tolkien goodness. In fact, if you look really closely you might even agree that the glass was two thirds full. Also, even though you and I would enjoy a full glass with a good head, this may not be to all tastes and others may enjoy a little mixer with their drink. When it was announced that LOTR would be made into a movie I was excited. Then I thought of other good books that Hollywood had made into films and I was dismayed. Then I thought of "Willow" and I was overcome with fear and trepidation. I guess what I'm trying to say is: even though the glass may not contain proper 1420, considering I expected tepid sugar water, what I received was more than I could hope for. OK, enough of the glass metaphors... Give me 5 minutes to get my asbestos underwear on and then you can flame away :-)

  • June 3, 2003, 6:37 p.m. CST

    Speak for yourself, BG!

    by Miami Mofo

    My T2T glass is three quarters to seven eighths full, AND it continues to fill up with the constant overflow from my FotR glass. But I echo your sentiments -- I really didn't think the "What's wrong with..." discussions would return before the T2T DVD release, which by the way, is twelve weeks from today! [Double it and we're buying the SEV!!, which really should be called T4T. ;~)]

  • June 3, 2003, 7:04 p.m. CST

    It's like this

    by daughter of time

    When you'd take almost anything because you're thirsty, but then the first round is proper 1420, so you order another, assured that there's vats more back there, but then your flagon comes, mostly 1420, but topped off with an inch of Budweiser. Still quenches your thirst, still has a lot of that 1420 flavor, still glad the inn's there (it's the only one in town), but you know, you really wish you could have pulled the tap yourself, or that they hadn't switched bartenders.

  • June 3, 2003, 8:50 p.m. CST

    sighing again

    by elanor

    Remember, Dot, nobody "assured" you there "would be more 1420" except you. Anyway, you always lose me when your disapproval of certain scenes becomes directed personally at PJ.***Conan, you make a good case for dropping wargs and saving time but I don't see how all those things could have fit into 10-15 minutes, much less played well. On the other hand, I would have gladly given up wargs for huorns! I hope we'll see them in the SEV.***Miami I enjoyed reading your crack pot theories. But I suppose I'll now have to change my theme song to "Love Child". hee hee!

  • June 3, 2003, 9:07 p.m. CST

    Oh yeah!

    by morGoth

    My Two Towers glass is right at the 95% full mark. I absolutely adored it and was just as satisfied with it as I was Fellowship. And since the tell of the box office continues to grow (fifth highest grossing move ever), it looks like I'm in the majority. Sorry for you two DoT and Conan, truly. I'd think ya'll be over it by now as there isn't anything you can do to change what has already been done. You're not going to change minds here either as all of this has been beat slam to death before. My sentiments lie with Miami and BG in that as a very long time Tolkienite, these movies have far, far exceeded both in quality and heartfelt effort anything I ever thought would happen if the Lord of the Rings were ever made into a live action movie. Please believe me when I say that and I'm not settling for anything just because someone HAS finally done it. Fill 'er up again PJ{[:^)

  • June 3, 2003, 10:10 p.m. CST

    morGoth types the coolest smiley faces.

    by Miami Mofo

    Just thought I'd point that out. :~)

  • June 3, 2003, 10:33 p.m. CST

    As I read Conan

    by daughter of time

    He was saying that any ONE of those scenes might have been included in the 10-15 minutes of time potentially shaved from the warg detour, not that they all could have been. And if world box office take is a measure of quality, does that make only TTT half as good as "Titanic"?

  • June 4, 2003, 12:01 a.m. CST

    Has anyone considered

    by JD1866

    that the glass may be too big? Perhaps our expectations and/or perceptions may need to be altered? Personally, I never expected to love TTT as much as I did FotR for the plain and simple fact that I like FotR (the book) better than TTT. My three favorite places in ME, The Shire, Imladris, and Lorien are all represented in FotR. The magical places that are no more. The world of men is much too close to the one I inhabit. I also like the idea of a united Fellowship and mourn it's breaking. So I was quite pleased to find that I liked TTT only slightly less than FotR.

  • June 4, 2003, 4:16 a.m. CST

    Hyperborean role's up sleeves and takes a huge breath...

    by Conan_the_Humble

    I meant as correctly pointed out by DOT that any one of those scenes COULD have been included at the expense of what is in my,(and others) opinion, an unnecessary battle. It didn't measurably add to the tension expected in the Battle of Helm's Deep, (IMHO) and as PJ basically states, served the purpose of including in the film monsters that he thought were cool... It didn't advance the plot beyond getting Aragorn to Helm's Deep. What difference would it make if Aragorn warned them an hour or 2 earlier of Saruman's apparently overwhelming forces. The 'world of men' already expected this. I always thought that we came here to discuss the movies. I know we can't change what has already come. That doesn't mean that we can't express regret over the movies not including elements we wished to see. If we can only express enthusiasm for those parts we do like, then I fail to see how it is much of a discussion. I am not attempting to troll or depress anyone here. In an absence of any other significant discussion I though the tailenders here might like to read some of PJ's own thoughts about TTT. I too thoroughly enjoyed this movie and found PJ's comments very interesting.I certainly wasn't bagging the WHOLE movie, just one part. I seem to recall some the tailenders here, (arguing that their cup being X amount full is acceptable) were less then impressed by Galadriel's 'freak-out' scene. This wasn't taken by other TE's as a personal attack against PJ. AS fans we have the right to discuss the pros AND cons of this movie. As new information was provided by PJ about these moments in the movie I think it perfectly acceptable to re-discuss this part of the movie. I will still be first in line to see ROTK. I will also be buying both the Theatrical and SEV version of TTT as soon as they are released. I will also still be unhappy about the scene I have just talked about. Cheers.

  • June 4, 2003, 7:57 a.m. CST

    It's Wednesday!

    by Miami Mofo

    And while it occurs to me that BG or Conan should be doing this job since Wednesdays, like everyday, begins in their neck of the woods long before it begins in mine, I shall continue to shoulder the burden and say, TWENTY-EIGHT WEEKS (efe) UNTIL LOTR:ROTK!!!!!!!!! ***Sorry to burst your bubble Conan, but I really believe that someone in Wellington, N.Z. will be FRIST in line. :~)

  • June 4, 2003, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Half empty, half full, what I want to know is WHO DRANK MY VODKA

    by mortsleam

    The Warg Attack accomplished nothing? Without that scene, we would have: No Legolas jumping horse mount. No flashback to the Tale of Arwen and Aragorn from the Appendices, including most importantly the flash forward to Elessar

  • June 4, 2003, 11:59 a.m. CST

    You put that very well, Conan

    by daughter of time

    Enough so, that I will not add to it.

  • June 4, 2003, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Barry Manilow walks into wall; breaks nose.

    by Miami Mofo

    Giggle, smirk, gufaw! Anyway, I just saw that headline over at and thought, "that man needs our help!" OK tailenders, for which role in LotR, the musical, should we cast the broken-nosed Barry Manilow?

  • June 4, 2003, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Of the final scenes in ROTK

    by Vanyar


  • June 4, 2003, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Tusked impersonator steals Sooty Vala

    by morGoth

    Dangit mortsleam, ya took the words right outta my mouth! Of course, I hafta add a few things, heh. Now see here brudder Conan, no need to drag out the

  • June 4, 2003, 5:53 p.m. CST

    DoT, DoT, DoT

    by morGoth

    Stop twisting what I said. I meant that the box office take reflects that more money was spent by people who were evidently quite satisfied enough with Two Towers to see it enough to surpass Fellowship at the box office. Sheesh, that

  • June 4, 2003, 6:13 p.m. CST

    MorGy, Rebut at length

    by daughter of time

    But I'm afraid I can't linger to rebut the rebuttal, as I have other things I must be working on. Truly. I will say, however, that the argument "it doesn't advance the plot" is only brought up because that seemed to be PJ's stated criterion in the first movie - not because I favor plot-driven narratives or think that anything that didn't advance the plot in Tolkien was a waste of time. Or for that matter, in PJ's interpretation. (I loved the collapsing stairs - though I think it can be argued that the moth DID advance the plot!) And that this whole thing flared up again because of certain recent quotes from PJ's own mouth, which I think we were free to discuss as far as they applied to our disappointments with TTT or hopes for ROTK. I do not lie awake at night "not getting over" any of this. On the other hand, I think the idea that there is something wrong with me for having too high expectations based on the first film is absurd. I have high expectations for my own writing, for God's sake, and am disappointed when I fall short of what I know it could be. The higher the standard set, the higher our expectations are going to be for it; that's human nature. If TTT met certain people's expectations and failed to meet others, that is most likely a matter of taste, not flawed judgment or because one set of expectations was more realistic than the other.

  • June 4, 2003, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Yes Vanyar, I remember.

    by Miami Mofo

    That's why it will be Galadriel and not Sam who tells the audience that my crackpot theories are incorrect. :~) Seriously though, I do remember that bit about Galadriel's voiceover as it will bookend the three movies. ***And speaking of bookends, re the 'choose the cover art' thingee that TORn has a link to where we, the fans, get to choose the cover art for the single volume edition of LotR that will be packaged with the Gandalf/Bilbo "No Admittance Except For Party Business" bookends, I must say that although I voted for the Rivendell cover, I voted for it not because I thought it was a great cover, but only because I thought that it was the best of a surprisingly weak three. I didn't feel that any of them truly captured what LotR is about, but merely showed us glimpses into segments of the book. Oh well, I guess I should be relieved that there are no boa constrictors or howling wolf/dogs, eh morGy? ;~)

  • June 4, 2003, 7:40 p.m. CST

    "Dopey," MorGy?

    by daughter of time

    Maybe we could agree that none of us is deliberately twisting the arguments of another, and perhaps none of us is as unambiguous and/or crystal clear in our posts as we would like to be? And it would be nice if you could debate without personal insults.

  • June 4, 2003, 8:57 p.m. CST


    by JD1866

    Try this link for a report posted at Torn on the ending for RotK. perl/newsview/2/1048554648 Please note the space before perl. Nice to hear from you again.

  • June 4, 2003, 9:06 p.m. CST

    Well DoT...

    by morGoth

    ...then don't first insult my intelligence by suggesting I equate box office take with "quality." Box office take is the surest indicator of public acceptance and nothing more. It is a simple fact that Two Towers has done better at the box office than Fellowship...for whatever reasons. Can we agree on that? Where I grew up, a "dopey statement" meant that you were suggesting someone was a moron. That's what I meant...don't make dopey statements about me unless you want to be insulted back. Comprende?

  • June 4, 2003, 10:14 p.m. CST


    by elanor

    Thank god it's Wednesday! Miami I totally had the same reaction to those three covers. As much as I loved having Elijah's Frodo depicted I can't imagine what a non-reader might think about LOTR seeing a blue-glowing top of a sword. Ah! A story about the discovery of radioactive heirlooms? I voted for Rivendell. Why wasn't one of the choices the Doors of Durin? Oh, wait. Maybe that's a copywright problem? Whatever. Why not Nazgul/hobbits/tree roots? Why not Gandalf in pony cart before doorway of Bag End? Shoot, I could go on forever.***Conan, for the record I had no problem whatever with anything you said, or how you said it, even though I don't fully agree with you. I have no problem with PJ's comments being inspected or dissected. I admit I get bothered when the criticism seems to become a slam at him personally but I never felt you did this. ***A tangent to my momentary Matrix obession. I was led to a terrific article that delved fully into all the oblique references in Reloaded, as well as an explanaition of sorts of some of the more riddle-filled speeches. If I were really clever I would have linked it here but, alas, I am not. Anyway, for anyone who cares, he has corroborated my own private speculation that the "mother of the Matrix" is not the Oracle or Trinity but Persephone! And I'm happy because my love of myth (all sorts of myths) led me to that speculation in the first place.***I havn't been over to TORN today yet. Work has been HELL! Lovely to see you all. Especially some. Now why am I thinking of late-night cajun food all of a sudden? I'm off.

  • June 4, 2003, 11:21 p.m. CST


    by Conan_the_Humble

    maybe I won't be the first in the WORLD in line to see ROTK, But I WILL be frist in line to get tickets here to see it... (I know what you're up to Mr MOFO.) Ok MorGy, here's something else I'd like to add. As for the 'didn't advance the plot' catechism as you call it. Adding elements to the story that do not advance the plot goes against PJ's own stated intent. PJ as DOT pointed out has repeatedly stated that elements of the story that do not measurably 'advance the plot' will not be included in his movie. Well, I think what he should have said was, "elements of Tolkien's story that do not advance the plot will not be included in my movie." He has certainly included elements of his own devising (or Fran Walsh's, Philipa BOYENS etc) that do not advance the plot. YOU pointed this out with the collapsing stair case scene. Yes whilst that scene was exciting, (notwithstanding those old debates about structural integrity issues...) FOTR wouldn't (sorry it appears I will have to again utilise the old IMHO) have been any less of a movie if that scene had never been included. As to Aragorn warning Theoden bit I'll get to that in a second. Mortsleam, hmm where do I begin? Ok, I completely agree that Legolas's horse jumping scene was fantastic, (an element of PJ's creation I really DO like...) but it could have been placed elsewhere in the movie, my main beef with the Warg attack was that the ride from Edoras to helms Deep in the story took just under 4 pages (153 - 157 TTT). This was mainly filled with conversation and the start of the description of Helm's Deep. PJ stated as I outlined above that he included the Warg attack because he felt the ride from Edoras to Helm's Deep was boring. He also wanted to include Wargs. Well that's fine, but I really don't think 4 pages out of 1000+ are going to bore someone. IF you were interested enough to stay with the book to Page 153 of TTT, then a couple of pages of conversation and a description of Helms Deep with our hero's arriving wouldn't bore you, I shouldn't think. The purposes it seems to me of that scene, were, 1. To show a cool fight between men, orcs and wargs. (Which we soon get at Helms Deep anyway.) 2. To further show the romance of Aragorn and Arwen. 3. To show Aragorn scouting (ie observing numbers, force elements etc) the enemy. Now this segment of the movie seemed to run for about 10-15 minutes as I recall it, though I will have to wait for the DVD to arrive to confirm that. I think showing any of those scenes that I mentioned above instead of the warg attack etc, would have resulted in a better movie than the one we received, in the way that FOTR was better, in my opinion than TTT. I am satisfied that TTT is the second best movie about LOTR that I have ever seen. I simply wish for certain elements to have been changed. I am not alone in this. I seem to recall a certain former member of th Valar around here being rather unimpressed with the inclusion of the Frodo Vs Nazgul scene at Osgiliath, as one example. I do not recall the Tailenders as a whole disapproving of FOTR in the same fashion that some of us have with TTTT. That is all, oh and thanks for the support DOT. I am going to quit arguing now. I don't really want to but I feel it necessary to express my displeasure with certain elements of TTT. (NOT the film as a whole) Here's hoping I don't have the same regrets with ROTK!!! Cheers.

  • June 5, 2003, 6:13 a.m. CST

    Scene at Club Angband...

    by morGoth

    It's about 11:00 at night and a bloated figure, trailing soot, is seen shuffling towards a delapidated desk that holds a rather sickly looking yet servicabe computer. He takes another slurp from his Longbottom Cuppa Tea as he settles down with a noisome sigh into the spiffy modular chair. "Garn but I gotta pump some more lava into that back feels like Voronwe tap-danced on it for a fortnight." The monitor gives off that warm yet putrid glow as the AICN background color filters through the gloom. "Mmmm...psssht! Right Conan! MMMMM...WHAT! Misunderstood again! Mumble, murble" Just as slag breath takes a huge slorp of the brew, his eyes gaze upon the post by one Fister Crunchman "SPEWWW...SPLUTTER...CHOKE...GASP AND WHEEZE! AAGGGHHHH, DAMMMIT! Shit! Will Noone fetch me a towel to get this tea offa my monitor screen?!!"

  • June 5, 2003, 9:39 a.m. CST

    Thanks Miami & JD

    by Vanyar

    Miami Mofo and JD1866: Thank you so much for helping not feel like I imagined that tidbit about the ending to ROTK. And thanks for the post JD. Soooo, all kinds of cogitating over what went right and what went wrong with TTT eh? Yes, there a re a number of scripted things that I thought were simply not what I would have chosen to portray. My main objection used to be the handling of Faramir (still stings a bit) and the whole Frodo at Osgiliath nonsense (

  • June 5, 2003, 10:30 a.m. CST

    Of books, book covers and bookends

    by Miami Mofo

    Boy I just saw a very nice pic of the "No Admittance Ecept for Party Business" bookends, and I must say that they are very cool. Almost makes me wanna go out and spend $75.00 for a book that I already own twice -- my original 1965 three volume paperback edition and the movie tie-in hardcover edition with the Black Rider on the cover. Now THAT was a book cover that I thought was most excellently done -- much better than the three choices we get to vote for this time around, and much better than this year's Gandalf in Bag End cover, which again, I thought was a poor choice. That was a scene, like the Black Rider cover, from LotR:FotR. Why they didn't use a scene from T2T for that cover, I'll never know. Same with this edition -- don't you think that a movie tie-in edition for LotR:RotK should have a cover that reflects something from LotR:RotK? I certainly do, that's why my ideal book cover for this special movie tie-in edition w/ the Gandalf/Bilbo bookends would have been a shot of one big mofo of a volcano with two small figures struggling to climb up its side followed by another small figure sneaking up behind them while in the backround Nazgul riding Fell Beasts circle the Great Lidless Eye glowing from the top of Barad-dur.

  • June 5, 2003, 11:48 a.m. CST

    Purely to exorcise the song from my head, here's Faramir's Big W

    by Pallando Blue

    Sung straight at an increasingly uncomfortable Elessar and Arwen: [by "Faramir Lee Riley & His Little Green Rangers"] ...My gal is re-e-e-d hot! Your gal ain't doodly-squat! YEAH! My gal is re-e-e-d hot! Your gal ain't doodly-squat! Well she ain't pointy ears, but man she really got a lot! * I got a gal, six feet fo', sleeps in the stables with her feet out the do', but * My gal is re-e-e-d hot! Your gal ain't doodly-squat! YEAH! My gal is re-e-e-d hot! Your gal ain't doodly-squat! Well she ain't pointy ears, but man she really got a lot! * She pace all night, she talk all day, but she the kind woman blow a Witch-king away, and * My gal is re-e-e-d hot! Your gal ain't doodly-squat! YEAH! My gal is re-e-e-d hot! Your gal ain't doodly-squat! Well she ain't pointy ears, but man she really got a lot! Let's go, man! Go! Go! Go! * [Damrod wails out a blistering gee-tar solo] * She a one-man woman, that's what I like, not wishy-wash she come to me every night, I said * My gal is re-e-e-d hot! Your gal ain't doodly-squat! YEAH! My gal is re-e-e-d hot! Your gal ain't doodly-squat! Well she ain't pointy ears, but man she really got a lo-o-o-o-o-o-ot! **** Whew. Been listening the hell outta a box set by Rhino I finally picked up after staring at it for years: "Loud, Fast, And Out Of Control" Highly Recommended! To paraphrase the liner notes, "oldies" can go screw (and take Happy Days, Sha Na Na and #!@&?*! Grease along with them), file this shit under ROCK AND ROLL, right beside your Clash, Zep, Ramones, Strokes, Stones, JSBX, AC/DC, White Stripes etc. HELL yeah. A treasure trove for the music geek who can't afford to hunt down classic 45s (and typical Rhino A+ liner notes). ...Er, wandered a bit off-topic there. Just sayin'. So, I suppose it's only fair to forewarn y'all I'm currently working on adapting Little Richard's "The Girl Can't Help It," or, "Arwen's Theme" ("...When she smiles, the beefsteak become well-done..."). Hmm. Doubt I'll have to change a word, actually... *** Okay, been busy at work and then unexpectedly traveling this week. [scans the TB] Looks like I should be glad I wasn't here. Or I may have done a whole lotta what Fister's askin' fer. C'mon, jist TRY me folx. >;~} Otherwise, it's back to the silly. *** Miami, I propose Barry Manilow as EOMER: (1) The horse-head motif helmet would cover up the busted schnozz, after a little adjustment (probably needs to be let out some) and (2) in the Houses of Healing he gets to sing, "Merry, you came and you stabbed without taking..."

  • June 5, 2003, 11:50 a.m. CST

    Elanor...totally off the topic...

    by mortsleam

    Joel Silver mentioned when discussing Matrix: Revolutions that, despite the unfortunate and untimely demise of Gloria Foster before she could film any scenes for the third movie, the Oracle would still appear in Revolutions "in some form." Given that we were shown Agent Elrond's Uncanny Elf Ability to download into humans, is it possible that the Oracle will show Trinity? Just in time to prove you right that Persephone is in fact the "Mother" of the Matrix? Either that, or the Architect was merely scoffing at the name humans had given the Oracle, when in fact she wasn't a pre-cog, but merely a control program like himself. In that respect she could be the "Mother." One thing's for sure -- The Matrix: Reloaded would've been better with Orcs and Hobbitses. (luv ya Harry, you misinterpreting fool, you.) *** Oh and Conan, if you read my full post you'd notice I agreed with you that the Warg Scene could be cut, I just think it actually added some plot points. Especially considering PJ's decision to combine Helm's Deep and Glittering Caves and all into one location/battle. One thing I'd rather see in the TTT SEV than in ROTK proper is the Smeagol/Deagol scene. Because I can't see how it can shoehorned into the already full pot. But only if it doesn't take away from extra Ent-Moot goodness, or Faramir re-fortification, or Sam's Oliphaunt Description, or whatever.

  • June 5, 2003, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Sigh. The perils of lazily copying and pasting the refrain.

    by Pallando Blue

    Please read "She ain't GOT pointy ears" throughout. YYYAAAAARRRRGGGH! Bah! Feh! >spit!< [smacks self] ...Now then. More coffee.

  • June 5, 2003, 1:40 p.m. CST

    A truly frightening thought

    by Miami Mofo

    Yes Pallando, I can definitely hear "Oh Merry" in the 'LotR the Musical -- based on Barry Manilow songs'. I can also hear Frodo and Sam singing "Looks like we made it," as they ascend Mt. Doom. But I suppose that it's only natural that everyone's favorite number in the musical will be, "At the Pony. The Prancing Pony. The hottest spot west of Imladris." {Or should it be the hottest spot NORTH of Edoras?]

  • June 5, 2003, 3:53 p.m. CST

    And Sauron's prologue number

    by Pallando Blue

    "I forge the Rings that make the whole world sing... I forge the rings, I forge the rings..." Hee hee, oh this Manilow tack does NOT merit further investigation. :) *** Sauron singing early Bee-Gees, however... say, when the plot of the West is finally unveiled as Frodo claims the Ring in the very heart of Mount Doom... it's a tender moment as a single spot shines on a flaming eyeball in black armor... "I started a joke, that started the whole world crying... But I didn't see, the joke was on me...." >choke!< >gag!< OKAY! Enough of that! Gaah! Aragorn reflects: "Lonely days, lonely nights, where would I be without my Elf-chick?" NOOO! Stop me! HELP!

  • June 5, 2003, 4:21 p.m. CST

    I will have my revenge, Mofo

    by Pallando Blue

    For planting this all in my head. :~D "At the Pony" is STILL ringing in my brain! "His name was Strider, he was a showgirl..." Er. Hm. "...Where full pints and ferrets were always the merits at the Po-o-o-ony-y-y-y... they fell in love" Aauuuuuggh [Pallando loads a round, spins the chamber... "must escape the pain" he scrawls on the cocktail napkin...]

  • June 5, 2003, 7:31 p.m. CST

    A girl takes a holiday and...

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    Ends up missing a shindig at home. I will write at greater length tomorrow since this French keyboard is doing my head in (talking in French may be like wiping your arse with silk but typing on their keyboards has a completely different effect upon one's fundament, I assure you.) (Oh, for the record, Reloaded ROCKS!!! Any questions? Good.) But I have to say, my TTT glass is tipping over the edge and the dark red ichor is staining my silk skirt and I'm too merry to care much. See, to me, the purist story issues in TTT are small potatoes, especially considered in light of the unnecessary wussification of Frodo in FOTR, which to me was an unwarranted character change and something that TTT fixed. If that shit had kept up, I'd've been really unhappy right now. The character change in Faramir bothers me, but like Frodo, he may well be fixed. I also think that SOTS should be in but I've had a good long while to get over it. I would take issue with the statement that PJ doesn't understand LOTR - we all understand books in slightly different and personal ways, and his interpretation is just as valid as mine from an adaptation point of view, considering the constraints of making a multi-million dollar motion picture. To me, a catastrophic system crash failure to understand LOTR is to have Frodo settle down in the Shire and live happily ever after. Obviously, mileage may vary. As for the action orientation, fair comment, but then PJ goes one better than the Prof and tries to show effect on ordinary people of all of this war and bloodshed which JRRT, with the best will in the world, can't be bothered with. Everything to do ith non-combatants in LOTR the book happens off-stage and is obliquely referred to in conversation. People can argue about the presentation but at least it was attempted. After two very poor stabs at Tolkien in living memory I consider myself a lucky girl to see all of this beautiful stuff brought to the screen. I couldn't do it. Hats off to those that can, and do. But then, in the light of no new information, we are forced to gnaw on the bones of the old - and the bad news is that there is no new info until at least August, according to our best sources. And we don't even have Elfkiller to provide comic relief. The life of a Tailender is hard and fraught indeed. Where's Harry Knowles with some scoop we wonders, aye we wonders?

  • June 5, 2003, 9:28 p.m. CST

    Blaarrgghh! The second cuppa tea on my monitor in one day!

    by morGoth

    Dammit Miami and Pallando, I

  • June 5, 2003, 9:58 p.m. CST

    That was DAMN funny Pallando!!!

    by Conan_the_Humble

    "My gal is re-e-e-d hot!" hee hee hee. Fear not MorGy I'm done pouting. I've been ill for the last few days and stuck at home, doing very little, 'but it has passed'... (I had to console myself with clutching the DVD remote, not having a White Stone on a chain handy...) Cheers.

  • June 6, 2003, 7:02 a.m. CST

    Peter Jackson is a f*cking hack!!!!!!!!!

    by Miami Mofo

    Or so Gollum says. Now THAT was one incredible acceptance speech, which I have no doubt will be included as an easter egg on the T2T SEV. But for now, you can see it on the small screen over at TORn (including Elijah's reaction). I must confess however to missing the show, so I did not see T2T win the Best Picture award. I'm assuming Elijah and Sean accepted -- if so, did they say anything funny or of interest? [Like where the f*ck is the f*cking RotK trailer from that f*cking hack Jackson? :~)]

  • June 6, 2003, 9:41 a.m. CST

    O yes Precious...

    by morGoth

    ...Jackson's acceptance speech for 'Best Action Sequence' (battle of HD) was absolutely hilarious. I won't spoil the punch line but let's just say that the bit ended up with Aragorn and Theoden chasing PJ with drawn swords. Not as absolutely gut splitting as the Gollum (a true classic comedy bit there!) but still funny. Miami, you KNOW that MTV will be running the show numerous times over the weekend so check it out! Everybody else too as it shouldn't be missed by any LoTR movie fan. Priceless! "MTV sucks!"

  • June 6, 2003, 10:41 a.m. CST

    Gollum: "Nobody likes YOU." Smeagol: "Dobby likes me!" Gollum: "

    by Pallando Blue

    "Dobby's a fucking fag!" ...That's just about when I lost it. I'd like to thank Serkis for almost killing me last night as I gagged on my popcorn at that moment. Holy GOD that was CLASSIC. As in, in the entire history of award shows CLASSIC, right up there with Brando sending Native Americans in his place to the Oscars classic. Pulled it off of TORN and watched it again 3 times, and just now able to breathe again, see through me watery eyes. That better durn well be an Easter Egg on the SEV, Miami! Hope they don't cop out and ONLY include the PJ-Viggo-Hill sketch. That's for Disc One, sure; Gollum's acceptance speech is for Disc Two--simple, no? PLEASE. ....Just to be clear, I cast no aspersions on Dobby, who seems a likeable enough fellow and his personal life is none of my business. My reaction to that line is based solely on that being a singularly perfect Gollum thing to say. (Of COURSE Gollum's a bitter fanboy homophobe!) A work of character-immersion genius. "And Peter Jackson!? 'My precious'... Who d'you think you are, you fucking HACK! Shame on you! SHAME on you! Go fuck yourself." Smeagol: "I'm not listening... I'm not listening..." Gollum: "Frankly, nothing can compensate for the long hours, low pay, and miserable experience we've had making this fucking movie. And if you think a shitty little tub of gold popcorn is going to REMOTELY make up for everything we've suffered, you're sadly fucking mistaken! YOU'RE ALL BASTARDS! MTV SUCKS! WE HATE YOU ALL!" (exits) Smeagol: "Good night!" (exits) ;) *** Of course, at least 60% of the comedy in that piece was the mortified Andy Serkis' reaction shots during the tirade. I just betcha that guy'll end up with an Oscar for something someday, even if never, unfortunately, for Gollum. Glad this'll open up many doors for him, at the very least. And if (or when?) the circle comes full close, Hollywood finally disappears up its own arse and there's an award show for award shows, I'm tellin ya he's lock! :)

  • June 6, 2003, 12:28 p.m. CST

    It sounded like Gollum was being voiced by Ozzy Osbourne!!!

    by Conan_the_Humble

    It was very funny, but methinks Gollum won't win next year... Cheers.

  • June 6, 2003, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Hmm, adding to the stack of notes to self

    by Pallando Blue

    Let's see here. Right under "Do not post after more than six beers--you sound like a fanboy on crystal meth" I'll just slap on a post-it, "Do not post before third cup of coffee--you sound like a fanboy coming down from crystal meth." Sigh, sigh, sigh. I yearn for the days when I can take my sweet TIME here! These rush jobs are embarrassing. ...Just bemoaning that the above reads like I thought Dobby being called a fag was worth being called "classic" and needed 5 to 10 lines to drive that home. Nope, I meant I felt the WHOLE speech is a classic (still do!), but really that shoulda only taken a coupla sentences. A short paragraph at most. ;) And, well, now I'm merely killing a few minutes before the whistle blows. Tick... tick... tick... *** HEY! Just remembered something to whine about! NO TRAILER IN JUNE!? Period?!? My GOD, and I was even preparing myself to see "Dumb and Dumberer" and let's face it, a trailer is THAT movie's best chance. Think I'll go mosey over to New Line's page, check out their upcoming release schedule...

  • June 6, 2003, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Though they could always go with a different studio's pic(s)...

    by Pallando Blue a kind of a swap deal, let's fer now assume New Line will attach ROTK teaser and/or trailer to one of their own. Whadda we got? *** "D&Derer" got the thumbs down. After that, we get: ** "How To Deal" starring Mandy Moore. "Adapted from a series of successful teen novels." Whee! July 18. ** "Freddy Vs. Jason" ...No explanation required. August 15 ** "Second Hand Lions" Hmm, this one at least has a solid cast and director (pardon my pasting): "Academy Award winners Michael Caine (The Cider House Rules, Hannah and her Sisters) and Robert Duvall (Tender Mercies) star alongside Oscar nominee Haley Joel Osment (The Sixth Sense, A.I.) in Secondhand Lions, written and directed by Tim McCanlies (writer of the acclaimed The Iron Giant and writer/director of Dancer, Texas). Secondhand Lions follows the comedic adventures of an introverted 14 year-old boy (Haley Joel Osment) who reluctantly finds himself spending the summer with a pair of cranky, eccentric great-uncles (Michael Caine and Robert Duvall). At first appalled by their gruff uncaring manner, over time he becomes enthralled with his uncles as the exotic tales and remembrances of their own youthful exploits introduce the boy to a world of imagination and wonder and re-ignites the old men

  • June 6, 2003, 5:25 p.m. CST

    Heh, it IS a classic , Pallando!

    by morGoth

    Stinker calling Dooby, erm, I mean Dobby a fag notwithstanding. I showed it to a lot of people at work (even ones who haven

  • I love it! I dunno PB, my money is on an internet preview sometime this month.

  • June 6, 2003, 10:03 p.m. CST

    I only meant his use of language MorGy.

    by Conan_the_Humble

    The way Ozzy 'colours' his language seemed similar to the way Serkis' voiced Gollum, that is all. Cheers.

  • June 6, 2003, 10:59 p.m. CST

    That was some funny stuff!

    by elanor

    I howled! Both at the show itself and at your comments I mean. Nice to know you boys were watching too! I turned it on at the perfect time - just when they were running the "best teamwork" scene (or whatever the category was called) and saw Sean and Elijah hop up to accept. Since I had read on TORN that Gollum made an obscene acceptance speech and there was none at this juncture I wondered what was up. Glad I stayed tuned for the payoff! And PJ's speech was quite funny, too. However I spent too much time looking at the background trying to figure out what scene they were set up for!!!! It all looked like Two Towers to me. Back to Gollum's MTV rant, I agree, Andy's reactions were comedic perfection. And then Elijah's un-miked response afterwards "that was f**king awesome!". I was glad to see Billy, too, and especially to hear his lovely brogue. But what was up with those two stupid hottie girls? And who was that gorgeous young man presenting with Harrison Ford? I know I've seen him but what's his name? My heart still belongs to Viggo but I like to know who the youngsters are.*** special aside to MorGoth: re the Pirates talkback which I just skimmed - I heard that Orlando got very nice reviews for both his acting and charisma in "Ned Kelly" which we Americans won't get to see for a long while yet. Variety said he really popped out in that film. I hope he is not too overshadowed by Depp and Rush in Pirates as that reviewer said but then again, this is a reviewer who didn't seem to "get" the Matrix Reloaded.*** special aside to Pallando: welcome back, you crystal meth addict! And to Fister: Go on, ya barset! And to mortsleam: I like that idea about Trinity/Oracle. They're great movies, bringing DesCartes (et al) to the masses, like PJ is bringing Tolkien. The only thing about them that worries me is that they will be mighty tough competition in visual, sound and special effects come Oscar time. But then, an embarrasment of riches is good for us all I suppose. And to Ingold: yer always gone too long, gol dern ya!

  • June 7, 2003, 10:03 a.m. CST

    You're right Elanor,

    by Conan_the_Humble

    I have seen Ned KELLY, it was released here frist as you'd expect. Orlando was VERY good in an otherwise ok movie. It wasn't spectacular, but was reasonably humorous and more or less stuck to the story of Ned Kelly, don't know if the 'purists' would care for it much though. He WAS a Horse Thief, he WAS a Bank/train/person robber (who co-incidentally DID steal from the rich, but unfortunately did NOT give to the poor) and he WAS a murderer... Orlando outshone Heath Ledger in that movie though, (although some unkind people might say that that's not particularly difficult...) Cheers.

  • June 7, 2003, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Conan an' elanor-lass...

    by morGoth, why the hell do we have to wait so long to see Ned Kelly? Wasn't it ever released in the States? Conan, if you've ever seen the Ned Kelly movie made some time back starring Mick Jagger (Pleez tuh meet yew. Hope you GUESS mah name!), how does it compare with the Bloom/Ledger flick? ** elanor, by hottie girls, I guess you mean that new Russian duo (R-pop?), Tatu. Not a bad little pop ditty but I hear their producer (some Russian psychologist or something) is emphasizing the lesbian/kinky sexuality aspect of their image and never lets them actually talk about their "music" to reporters. I loathe pop music...for many reasons! Unfortunately, I have this ability/curse to instantly imprint melodies in my kernoodle no matter how bad/great they are. Also, the lad with Harrison Ford is Josh Harnett of Blackhawk Down and Pearl Harbor fame. At any rate, I thought the whole show was quite funny too and I liked the comic book theme. Well, except for the "song" by 50 Cent as I wouldn't pay one RED cent to ever hear it again. Guess I just don't get that stuff. In that vein, I thought Emminem's last acceptance video presence was pretty obnoxious too. Needless to say, had it not been for the Two Tower wins, I'd never have tuned in the first place. Also, I'm working today so that's why I'm posting so much...he, he.

  • June 7, 2003, 2:09 p.m. CST

    BTW Conan...

    by morGoth

    ...see what I mean about the "bad morGy mojo?" Sheesh, for some reason I thought you meant the "sound" of Gollum's voice...meaning timbre, pitch, etc. Jist call me morGy the charcoal block head. In my defense, at least charcoal isn't as dense as concrete! OK, that's it...last post of the day an' I mean it!

  • June 7, 2003, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Ahh, morGoth...

    by JD1866

    providing another fine example of my hard earned tax dollars put to a good & productive use. *editors note - that was a joke, please do not misconstrue or take personal offense - end note* And what's wrong with pop music? It has its place. It gets the feet movin' and the hips to shakin'. Personally, I like to have it blasting when I'm, say, scrubbing the bathrooms.

  • June 7, 2003, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Dear MorG the charcoal blockhead

    by elanor

    I don't know, that takes too long to type! Thanks for the cutie pie Josh Harnett name. (Why you're not a blockhead at all!) I'm not sure who I mean by the two stupid hottie girls but I don't think they are related to the schoolgirl pseudo-lesbian group (is that 50 cents? If so, let's hope they are destined for a mere 50 days of fame). The ones I mean were both blonde, they came to the podium and spoke in what used to be called Valley-girl speak but is now far more widespread among the young (and not so young). I think one of them was wearing pink (maybe both). I don't know why studios decide to wait to release certain movies. I think they were not completely happy with the reviews and are now something akin to embarassed by it, so they are waiting for the right timing to slip it in where it might get less main-press notice and thus have a shot at its becomming "discovered" by an audience which might give it a chance to be a sleeper hit. At least I think that's one avenue of thought.***Conan, yay, I'm glad to have your coroboration of the Ned Kelly review I read. ***Oh, and Alice, she of the self-wounded feetsies, lovely post up there. A neighbor of mine (LOTR fan but not quite like us) just returned three videos I lent him: the Rankin-Bass "The Hobbit" & "ROTK" and the Bakshi "The Lord of Th..". I had warned him that although he was welcome to watch them, someone I knew had gnawed off her own limbs as a result. That was enough to spare his own two feet but he agreed watching them was horrific enough to prompt such an act!***Let's see, what question shall I propose to spark some pleasant discussion on this rainy day? Not to imply that we have yet exhausted the riffing on a musical version of LOTR. How about: What scenes from ROTK would you willingly cut for the sake of keeping the film under 3.5 hours? I don't know my own answer. I guess I'll post later. P.S. both serious and joke responses are welcome and encouraged.

  • June 7, 2003, 5:46 p.m. CST


    by AliceInWonderlnd

    Ooh, good one. I don't know. I'm not a movie-maker, but if I were... A scene I enjoy but I would cut if making the movie is meeting Saruman on the road while he bitches about having no weed - then him showing up in the Scouring would be a Psycho-like surprise. Actually, there is a bit I would trim from the Scouring, were it to be in, in the interests of dramatic tension (you never really doubt that the Incredible Foursome will rouse the Shire and kick a whole load of ass in the book, it could be in a bit more doubt). The whole business with the Red Arrow is probably redundant too as we can *see* Gondor is in trouble if they keep to their habit of filming it in real time (though I read some unsubstantiated rumour that it begins at the Black Gate with the Mouth of Sauron and Frodo's vest - the rest being in flashback, which might be an interesting way to tackle it, if you see Frodo die and Sam take the Ring). Pippin knocking about with Bergil could probably be cut, though he is a good introduction to the main players in Gondor's defense (most of whom will be cut anyway, I expect). However, nothing in Cirith Ungol or Mordor to do with Sam and Frodo could be cut, at all, and I will hurt anyone who tries to. Except maybe the two orcs looking for them who conveniently kill one another - since that device got used in the Tower on a much grander scale, repeating it might seem redundant. (Flashback to the Rankin-Bass movie, where the Orcs in the Tower kill one another over a "Hero cloak" that Frodo doesn't actually have on him because Sam's wearing it - thinks hard: happy thoughts, happy thoughts, happy thoughts...) Sam's pans taking their header into the crevasse cannot be cut without Wonderlander bloodshed - it always lingered with me and seemed a real signifier that Sam finally understood that they would never return. Up until that point he rather indulges Frodo's pessimism, I thought. But anyway, Obscene!Gollum rocks the house! I want one! What a talkbacker he'd make! If only they made an action figure that said that stuff! Anyway, keep up the music guys, funny stuff... in answer to the question about French keyboards, several very important keys are transposed - a with q, w with z, m with semi-colon, etc. Tis most annoying. Oh, and once again, Reloaded rules! I just saw it again and I still love it to smithereens. At least November won't be so long and dark this time (last year I had no divida player and hence couldn't watch the extended edition until January, I think it was... boo!)

  • June 7, 2003, 5:50 p.m. CST

    The ORDER is HOSED!!!

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    Bah! Gnnh! Boo!

  • June 7, 2003, 5:52 p.m. CST

    Dammit! Now in new unhosed flavour!

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    I have a post second from the top. My last wasn't victimised, just that one. Oh well. Mustn't grumble. But grumbling is so much fun...

  • June 7, 2003, 6:52 p.m. CST

    Good for a laugh

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    On Godawful fan fiction they are having a discussion about the worst fan art (go to their web address and check out the topic on the messageboard). By Christ, some of it is shit - and by professional illustrators too. My personal favourite is Luthien the Stripper ( gallery/gallery_item.cfm?ID=400 close up the space in front of gallery) though frankly all of the Rowena Merrill stuff deserves burning, with its tarty women and men who appear to have forgotten to put some trousers on. But interesting to know that if you ever want bad fan art you can use the TolkienOnline rating system to access it instantly. (Looks at Luthien picture again.) Jesus, someone clearly read a different Silmarillion from me.

  • June 7, 2003, 6:53 p.m. CST


    by AliceInWonderlnd

    The link to Godawful is And it is one funny site, but not updated enough.

  • June 8, 2003, 6:06 a.m. CST

    Nice Alice,

    by Conan_the_Humble

    to quote, "Mean while Laura was sitting on the floor and then the door opened and it was some Orcs and the Orcs tied Laura with some chains and then one of the Orcs striped her and then he raped her and then Laura said"go away you bastard".Then another Orc came with a whip and whiped her hard and then the Orcs all togeter bet her almost to death and then the Dark Lord came in with a tube of Posion and then he injeted into Laura." Bwahahahahahaha!!! Without wishing to be too pretentious I hope whoever wrote that drivel DID not speak English as a first language. Cheers.

  • June 8, 2003, 8:24 a.m. CST

    You'll probably hate me for this, elanor...

    by Miami Mofo

    but I think that that entire chapter of Sam and Rosie going natural childbirth classes could be eliminated, saving lots of time. On the other hand, that wildy hysterical pony/cart ride that Merry and Pippin took Rosie on as they were madly rushing her to the hospital cause Sam was away on what eventually became your birth day, should definitely remain in.

  • June 8, 2003, 2:17 p.m. CST

    We hates you! We hates you forever!

    by elanor

    Ok, Miami, the gloves are OFF! I can understand your leaving out those two scenes in the interest of time, but if you even THINK of cutting the fantastic scene in which Daddy and Mommy come up with my NAME, well, you are going to have to endure hobbit-lass-wrath (say that three times fast). You know the scene I mean, it goes like this*** Sam: um, whatta we gonna name her? Rosie: I dunno, can't you think of something? Sam: I'm not good at that, how 'bout you think of something? Rosie: No, you do it. Sam: Well, I'm too tired. Rosie: Oh, and I'm not? Sam: Yeah, but I'm more. Rosie: No, you're not. Sam: Yes, I am. Rosie: Nuh uh. Sam: Yeah, huh. Rosie: Nope. Sam: Yep. Rosie: Are not. Sam: Am too. Rosie: Goddammit! Sam: Hey, how about Elanor? Rosie: Oh Sam, I love you.***Ahhhhh! Such conflict! Such incredibly subtle dialogue! Their entire lives encapsulated in this ONE GREAT SCENE, this is the culmination of their entire character arcs! It is SUCH A COOL SCENE!***So I watched the MTV awards again this morning (the parts I missed and the parts I like) and now I know that the two stupid hotties were Amanda Bynes and Hilary Duff. Egad.***and I also now know the difference (praise the lord) between 50 Cents and Tatu. I will never wash these eyes again. ***Hey! Is that a new tb I see? The Down Under one? Dare we???? I think I'm too scared.*** Alice, thank you for your ideas, I think those are some I could live with, too. And thanks for that elegant demonstration of how to hose and unhose a tb all in one fell swoop.

  • June 8, 2003, 6:18 p.m. CST

    I just watched Chapter 30 (# 39 in the SEV) of the LotR:FotR DVD

    by Miami Mofo

    The Bridge of Khazad-dum -- that chapter just knocks my socks off. From the staircase to Morgoth's Balrog on the bridge to Frodo's tear, it's just so amazing. No surprise that it is only one of three chapters on disc 2 of the SEV that remained unchanged. Sometimes, like right now, I'll rev up the ol' home theatre, pop the DVD in the player and head right on over to chapter 30, just to get a fix. ***elanor dear, you unjustly accuse me! I did not say that both scenes should be deleted, only the natural childbirth classes. M & P taking your Mom to the hospital MUST remain in! [Otherwise I shall be forced to withdraw my support for this film. ;~)] ***Btw, I did visit the new Downunder tb, and even posted! I remained DEVOUTLY on-topic, so if you want to read what I wrote, you'll just have to mosey on over there.

  • June 8, 2003, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Oh, regarding the "Stairway" scene...

    by Miami Mofo

    A short time ago, someone pointed out (sorry, I don't remember who) that hardly anyone objected to the stairway scene even though it was something that was not in the book [or the appendix! :~)]. While just rewatching that scene, it hit me that part of the reason that NOONE objected to it could be that we were somewhat prepared for it. Anyone who had read those incredible Cannes reports seven months before the release of the movie, was aware that that scene was in. -- Just a theory.

  • June 9, 2003, 3:50 a.m. CST

    A crackpot theory already?

    by Conan_the_Humble

    It's the middle of June!!! We shouldn't have any crackpot theories for another 3 weeks yet, Miami... Cheers.

  • June 9, 2003, 11:30 a.m. CST

    "Acceptable" ROTK cuts eh...

    by Pallando Blue

    As curious as I'd be to see PJ's and Richard Taylor's take on the Pyookle-men, AXE 'em! Though maybe the stone buddha-looking statues're fine... (Wait, I think I'm confusing myself... are just the statues the Puke-ul-men? Or the other Ghan-buri-ghan folks? Argh, where's the book when I need it) The whole Ghan-buri-ghan scene, well, on screen the scene'd probably come across as Theoden having to stop and ask a caveman for directions. Not good. Um, cinematically speaking, of course. Cause god knows we'll already have enough asking-for-directions scenes, when Aragorn tries to get all the way from the Pellenor encampment to the Houses of Healing by himself, despite not having visited the white city for decades. I remember in the book that entire chapter being ex-CRU-ciating. (Still, though, completely necessary and un-cut-able. Otherwise, we, the audience, are supposed to believe Aragorn suddenly "shows up" in the HoH? Preposterous!) ...Also, you know that scene, where Pippin beats Denethor in a late-night game of canasta, provoking a howling roar from the old man? And Pippin protests "I made a fair play, screaming about it won't help you," and Gandalf warns him, "Let him have it, it's not wise to upset a Steward," and Pippin retorts, "But sir, nobody worries about upsetting a hobbit," and Gandalf replies, "That's 'cause hobbits don't pull people's arms out of their socket when they lose, Stewards are known to do that," you know, that scene? ...That HAS to stay in. Or I withdraw my support from these movies.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:35 p.m. CST

    I just hope my fave chapter--Mount Doom--gets the best song

    by Pallando Blue

    A quick aside: elanor, I propose we keep it here at LEAST until the AICN-DU falls off the front page! Ol' FG makes me nervous, he does... *** By best song, I mean LOTR: The Musical's "All That Jazz," the one number the crowd can't help but keep humming on the way home. So, above all else, a real toe-tapper. *** [The Scene: Deep in the bowels of Mount Doom, represented by red-yellow-orange lighting and floor fans blowing on flame-shaped crepe paper making them "ripple" and "flicker" (what, you expected a budget?)] FRODO: "Yes, Sam, I have finally come here. But I do not now choose to do what I came here to do." SAM: "Mister Frodo! Don't let the Ring take you!" FRODO: "I am not the Ring's! The Ring is mine!" SAM: "No-o-o-o-o!" [Gollum, in the background grinning evilly, bangs away on a saloon-style piano: Bum bum bum bum!] FRODO: "You shake my nerves and you rattle my brain! [bum bum bum bum!] Too much-a pow'r drives a hobbit insane. [bum bum bum bum!] You broke my will, [bum bum bum bum!] But what a thrill! [bum bum bum bum!] Goodness gracious, Great Rings of Fire! [Gollum really tears up the ivories here on out] I laughed at pow'r 'cause I thought it was funny * You came along and WOO-ed me, honey! * I changed my mind * This jewelry's fine * Goodness gracious, Great Rings of Fire! ** Kiss me, precious, * Mmmmm! Feels good! * Hold me, precious! * We-e-e-ell, I want to wield you like a wielder should. [bum bum bum bum!] You're fine! [bum bum bum bum!] I'm blind! [bum bum bum bum!] Got to tell this world that you're mine, mine, MINE, MINE! ** I chew my nails down and I twiddle my thumbs, * I'm feelin' nervous but it sure is fun. * C'mon baby! * You drive me crazy! * Goodness gracious, Great Rings of Fire!" [Frodo now "disappears"--the spot on him goes out--and Gollum's solo here is a ragin' barn-burner; halfway through, though, he leaps from the piano stool into the unlit part of the stage to grapple with the "invisible" Frodo. This forces Sam to take over on the piano mid-solo, but poor simple Sam only knows one chord, so he bangs out the same note for six bars. Partway through, the lights come back on Frodo--now clutching one hand, splattered head to toe in a red dye and karo syrup mixture--and Gollum, now dancing (variations on the monkey, the frug, the twist, the jerk, etc., changing every bar), takes over on the lyrics, as Sam helplessly accompanies] GOLLUM: "Kiss us, precious, * Mmmmm! Feels good! * It holds us, precious! * We-e-e-ell, we wants to haves you like a haveser should. [bum bum bum bum!] You're fine! [bum bum bum bum!] We're blind! [bum bum bum bum!] Gots to tell this world that you're mine, mine, MINE, MI-I-I-I-i-i-i" [At which point Gollum has just cabbage-patched into the open trapdoor. The music stops abruptly, and Sam rushes to Frodo's side as a massive earthquake (offstage rattled-posterboard "sound effects," intermittent strobe lights) rocks the stage.] SAM: "Get up, please, we have to go now, Mister Frodo! There's a whole lotta shakin' goin' on..."

  • June 9, 2003, 12:52 p.m. CST


    by AliceInWonderlnd

    Yeah - cut them! Cut them all down! Sorry, Pukel-Men lovers of the world (and I know they are out there). That said, Sam better sing when despairing of ever finding Frodo in the Tower (I suspect that he won't though, given the way things are going, and that makes me a saaaad panda), though I think the 64-piece orchestra that magically appear to accompany him ought to be cut, as should the two redneck gun shop owners and the Gimp. I also feel that Aragorn's "Do you feel lucky, punk?" speech to the Mouth of Sauron in the middle of the last battle is also gilding the lily, though maybe they could get it into the EE. Who knows? In any case, I've just come back from a week's holiday, and it's like my inbox has grown fangs! It's gone all possessed and evil, so I better get back to it. Graah.

  • June 9, 2003, 12:59 p.m. CST

    I'd just like to say after that...

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    ... that *I* withdraw Perilous Bleat's support for these movies. I'm sure you'll all thank me in the long run, and in time, perhaps, so will he.

  • June 9, 2003, 4:32 p.m. CST

    What exactly did you MEAN there, JD?

    by morGoth

    Heh, kidding, kidding! I didn

  • June 9, 2003, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Dammit Pallando!

    by morGoth

    ANOTHER Coke on the monitor! Bastige, you should start posting a ** SPEW WARNING!!** before each post ye greet ninny! Man, the world needs to read your stuff and as long as you add a line or two on topic then FG can't touch you. Hey, me, Conan an' Miami have lasted a whole day over there! C'mon, it's a real honest to goodness "Spy Report" TB so get the hell over there or I'll start whining again.