Coaxial

ANGEL's Fate Determined''

Published at: April 23, 2003, 2:16 a.m. CST

I am – Hercules!!

We’ve not been able to confirm this with our best sources, who appear to have retired for the evening, but the switchboard has been lighting up all Tuesday night with news from lesser sources that the WB finally decided to slide “Angel” off the bubble and into a fifth-season renewal.

For those just joining us, this is exceedingly good news, because:

a) Tim Minear’s fourth-season finale script is an amazing knee-slapper, and spins the show into a wholly unexpected direction (hint: one of the show’s most prized elements returns to loom larger in the Team Angel lives than ever before);

b) Some of the best writers from “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” and “Firefly” are expected to migrate toward Team Angel, transforming the franchise into a kind of Mutant Enemy supershow; and

c) For the many asking if Spike will die at the end of the “Buffy” series finale or if Spike will be a component of the “Angel” cast next season, the answer is apparently “yes.” You heard me.

The WB announces its autumn slate on May 12.

All rejoice now.

I am – Hercules!!





Readers Talkback

comments powered by Disqus
    + Expand All
  • April 23, 2003, 2:36 a.m. CST

    Great News

    by BLADE

    Fanfuckingtastic! Angel, with the exception of a few episodes has been great this year.

  • April 23, 2003, 2:42 a.m. CST

    Oh my shit!

    by Magus Darkstar

    I'm so excited, I could kick my cat in the face.

  • April 23, 2003, 2:44 a.m. CST

    Kick the cat!

    by BLADE

    Then kick that fucker who had to be "FIRST!"

  • April 23, 2003, 2:48 a.m. CST

    Spike

    by CowgirlBebop

    Wait, he'll die AND he'll be on Angel? WHICH IS IT?

  • April 23, 2003, 2:50 a.m. CST

    yeah! more angel!

    by BRTick

    god i hope so!

  • April 23, 2003, 2:52 a.m. CST

    spike on angel

    by Schmiggy JK

    Spike will be angel, hes comfirmed this a few times, that whedon asked him to do angel if it was picked up, and it has been, so, hes going to be on it. course, cant for angels return to buffy in the final few episodes, to help whup the firsts ass... should be good

  • April 23, 2003, 3:02 a.m. CST

    Cowgirl Bebop:

    by Hercules

    You read correctly.

  • April 23, 2003, 3:08 a.m. CST

    Herc

    by LivingTribunal

    Is Spike going to be on Angel or not man?

  • April 23, 2003, 3:28 a.m. CST

    ANGEL has consistently kicked ass this year!

    by Purple Rain

    And absolutely deserves to be renewed. I really hope for an official announcement soon. And now back to the "what will Spike do on Angel" talk. This talkback is pretty light at 2:25 a.m. but when I wake up in the morning I'm thinking that's what going to all over the screen. Go Angel, cast and crew, you all deserve some praise for a great season. It's the little show that surpassed every expectation it has been given over four seasons. Oh and Cordelia, WAKE THE FUCK UP! and beat Angel's ass for not realizing that you would never sleep with Connor or make him think turning into Angelus would be a good idea. Goodnight!

  • April 23, 2003, 3:29 a.m. CST

    Woo Hoo!!!

    by electroxb

    Thank goodness at least one Mutant Enemy show will be on the air.......Now if only Eliza's new show will fail so we can have a Faith spinoff by midseason.....

  • April 23, 2003, 4 a.m. CST

    woot!

    by vesp_e_rillian

    Yes, there will be a show to watch on TV next season. That's right, *A* show. Now all we need is Darla back as a regular big bad...

  • April 23, 2003, 4:20 a.m. CST

    "Prized element to return..."

    by Jimmy Jazz

    That wouldn't be our old pals Wolfram and Hart would it? The way I understand it, Lilah, Gavin Pak and the rest were just local franchise grunts, while the W&H biggies are still out there, no doubt completely pissed that their employees got fragged. All that AND Spike. Woo-hoo!

  • April 23, 2003, 4:23 a.m. CST

    Spike!!!

    by Helena

    Yes! If the BtVS spoilers are correct, Spike will die, reborn as human and end up in AtS. Given Angel\Spike issues it will be a howl/ Just imagine them as reluctant allies, bitching and bickering. BTW there's a line in BtVS 7.22 BUFFY One of these days, I'm just gonna put you two in a room and let you rassle it out. It certainly isn't a throwaway line. JW is already planning A\S reunion!!

  • April 23, 2003, 4:45 a.m. CST

    Spike is going to die AND be on Angel!

    by TenDeuChen

    Holy frell...this is awesome...This is great news. Yay! I can't wait for the episode in 16.5 hours! yay!

  • April 23, 2003, 4:57 a.m. CST

    So spike will die - or not, and go to Angel - or, you know, not

    by Heleno

    Good that we've got it narrowed down....

  • April 23, 2003, 5:01 a.m. CST

    I think I got this one ...

    by rizla

    Spike dies in Buffy, but we somehow get the OLD Spike, from the year 1872 or whatever, being brought forward in time to the Angel series. No soul. All vampire. They could even bring Darla back! Either that, or the entire cast gets sent back in time to pre-Angel-with-a-soul era. Slap my thigh! Do I win a coconut?

  • April 23, 2003, 5:04 a.m. CST

    'Prized element'

    by rizla

    The whole centuries-crossover plot-lines were definitely a 'prized element' in previous seasons. Proof I tells ya!

  • April 23, 2003, 5:21 a.m. CST

    I don't know whether Lindsay counts as a prized asset

    by Praetor

    But he is the ONLY Wolfram Hart character to survive the devastation by leaving two seasons ago. Could he made an offer he can't refuse to return and head the new organisation?

  • April 23, 2003, 5:25 a.m. CST

    Prized Element= Wolf-Ram-Heart?

    by BLADE

    For Shizzy My Nizzy-Although Cordelias Breast are a prized element too.

  • April 23, 2003, 6:13 a.m. CST

    Spike on Angel?

    by Tailkinker

    Spike dies AND appears in Angel? Hmm, the best way for that to happen would be if Angel dusts Spike in the Buffy finale and proceeds to keep his ashes in a small jar somewhere prominent in his office. Or possibly in an ashtray. Not that I've got anything against Spike, I just feel that Angel's got enough characters to work with right now.

  • April 23, 2003, 6:21 a.m. CST

    About Time

    by Waspo

    Finally the WB does something right this year. They keep Gilmore Girls, Smallville, and now this. At least they are going to keep shows that people actually watch, and on top of that are of high quality. This is great news, so great that I had to wake up everyone in my family just to let them know. Here's hoping the ratings improve enough to merit a 6th season... Please people watch the show for the rest of this year, and next year as well!

  • April 23, 2003, 6:35 a.m. CST

    THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by onetrueking

    THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • April 23, 2003, 6:59 a.m. CST

    I suppose

    by mare

    Spike will shanshu and return to "Angel" as a human, not a vampire with a soul.

  • April 23, 2003, 6:59 a.m. CST

    I suppose

    by mare

    Spike will shanshu and return to "Angel" as a human, not a vampire with a soul.

  • April 23, 2003, 7:14 a.m. CST

    I WISH ANGEL HAD BEEN CANCELLED

    by 1013nomore

    I guess I can still hope a little that it goes. I loved Angel and watched up until the 7th episode of this season. It turned a corner and can do NOTHING, NOTHING to win me back. The casting of Connor and the Connor-Cordelia sexual involvement created an allergy to the show for me. For those who still love Angel, I hope the show will be better next year. I'm just no longer buying it. The addition of Spike isn't enough, and even all the Sunnydale gang wouldn't be enough. The descriptions of the attempts to explain away all the stuff I have hated made me hate the show even more. So sad, so desperate. I'm so done with the show that I will never read another SPOILER or episode summary. I'm not just tuning out the show. I'm tuning out any interest in media describing the current or future state of the show. I took my Talkback name from the decline of the X-Files, and Angel has become another X-Files for me.

  • April 23, 2003, 7:29 a.m. CST

    Which Spike

    by Frank_Serpico

    If Spike is gonna be on Angel then bring back the old Spike who had some attitude and not the pathetic buffy whipped , poor man's Angel strutting around on Buffy at present .And no Soul ! There is only one Vamp with Soul and thats Angel

  • April 23, 2003, 7:51 a.m. CST

    bleh!

    by mare

    1013nomore, there was a good REASON for the Cordy/Connor-Sex and the whole storyline turned out to be brilliant storytelling. So you are bitching about a plot point whose outcome you haven't even watched... a bit ridiculous I'd say. And if you are indeed not at all interested in the show, what are you doing in this talkback?

  • April 23, 2003, 8:07 a.m. CST

    One down One to Go

    by Woolam

    This is great news. Now all I'm waiting for is confirmation that Boomtown has been renewed.

  • April 23, 2003, 8:09 a.m. CST

    Thank God! Jasmine will not be Angel's Last Arc!!

    by Drath

    I'm sorry, I know it's not over yet, but Jasmine's plot is not an adequate pay off for four seasons of intrigue and mounting suspense. Don't even get me started on the way the Connor/Angel rivalry has progressed. But Wolfram and Hart, the REAL villains of Angel's world, have been put on hold, and that right there makes the fight with Jasmine into a Glory-style diversion for Angel and not a First-level Mega Showdown. So thank god we're getting another season, and with all the writers that made Buffy and Firefly so much damn fun to watch no less. Please, WB, now that Buffy's ending, MOVE ANGEL BACK TO TUESDAY NIGHTS!!!!! Finally, I hope that'll be badass Spike who shows up next year and not naked pussycat Spike.

  • April 23, 2003, 8:26 a.m. CST

    YES! YES YES!!

    by Larry Jay

    Thank goodness, some good news. Particularly after the cancellation of FUTURAMA. At least there will be at least 1 good show left on network tv. ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD

  • April 23, 2003, 9:17 a.m. CST

    Woo to the frellin hoo!

    by ArchDiver

    A theory on Spike- He dies, he shanshus, then Wes puts it together that the prophecies were about Spike and that Angel should have been human since S1 when the demon blood healed him! HUGE "d'oh" moment! There would have been no Connor, no false Sahjahn prophecies, no reign of fire, no Jasmine, if he had remained human! In essence, Angel made a mistake, TPTB let him when he turned back the clock, unleashing buttloads of misery! Teehee! AD out

  • April 23, 2003, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Spike's death

    by elfburn

    Spike will sacrifice himself and be left in the Hellmouth this season. Sometime next year he'll show up on Angel. And don't tell me this is screwy Angel did it himself after Buffy Season 2. ***********And who knows how many Angel regulars will survive this season (for one it sounds like Connor will stay with his new 'family'. Praise God).

  • April 23, 2003, 9:23 a.m. CST

    Spike's death

    by elfburn

    Spike will sacrifice himself and be left in the Hellmouth this season. Sometime next year he'll show up on Angel. And don't tell me this is screwy Angel did it himself after Buffy Season 2. ***********And who knows how many Angel regulars will survive this season (for one it sounds like Connor will stay with his new 'family'. Praise God).

  • April 23, 2003, 10:42 a.m. CST

    Oh, please, please, please...

    by diaphinia

    Losing 3 ME shows in a season would just be too terrible to contemplate. And now that Angel's really (IMO) on the level of the better Buffy years, it deserves to live at LEAST another season!***BTW, watching Once More With Feeling, truncated on Fox this morning made me oh so anxious t have S6 Buffy out on DVD. Like, NOW.

  • April 23, 2003, 11:25 a.m. CST

    So glad to hear Angel will return!

    by franknfair

    I just recently got into the Buffyverse when the DVDs started coming out. I was hooked after the second season of Buffy and now am a big fan. Typical of my luck, the moment I get into a show, it ends. Having just recently bought Angel's first season, I was really worried when there was talk of cancelling it as well - Because Angel is TERRIFIC! I hope it goes at least one and perhaps 2 more seasons! After that, spin off Wesley and let Angel have a recurring role like Buffy season one! (Just dreaming while typing :-)

  • April 23, 2003, 11:27 a.m. CST

    So glad to hear Angel will return!

    by franknfair

    I just recently got into the Buffyverse when the DVDs started coming out. I was hooked after the second season of Buffy and now am a big fan. Typical of my luck, the moment I get into a show, it ends. Having just recently bought Angel's first season, I was really worried when there was talk of cancelling it as well - Because Angel is TERRIFIC! I hope it goes at least one and perhaps 2 more seasons! After that, spin off Wesley and let Angel have a recurring role like Buffy season one! (Just dreaming while typing :-)

  • April 23, 2003, 11:31 a.m. CST

    jazz

    by Dalisurreal

    Jazz Hands. Jazz Hands indeed.

  • April 23, 2003, 11:33 a.m. CST

    by Dandy

    My dream cast od characters for Angel next season-Bad Spike, Darla, Dru, Lindsay, Lilah, Angel, Fred, Wesley and Cordelia from Season 1 Buffy. I think when Spike rode off to Africa he really did just want his chip out, his big badness back and no more moaning about Buffy. Spike and Darla! Yes. The perfect badness. Perfect torture for Angel, along with a skinny, sexy, smartmouthed long haired Cordelia. A jealous Lindsay, mad as a hatter Dru. Now that is a dream cast with dramatic possibilities. Oh yeah andHoland Manners.

  • April 23, 2003, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Thank the PTBs

    by Marilee

    Losing Buffy and Angel in the same year would be way too much! I might have had to commit TV-icide.

  • April 23, 2003, 11:46 a.m. CST

    If Spike is reborn as human...

    by Alanna Banana

    he'll probably immediately die of lung cancer.

  • April 23, 2003, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Possible Spoilers- next Season

    by Bugaboo

    Okay if Spike dies and uses the amulet that Angel gets from W&H in the hellmouth...and then returns as human on Angel next season, well that would be the prophecy from Season 1 of Angel. Basically that means by Buffy chosing Spike to fight with her instead of Angel she cost Angel his once chance at becoming human and for their future together.

  • April 23, 2003, 11:59 a.m. CST

    Some Spoilers???

    by Electric_Monk

    The Shanshu prophecy said "The vampire with a soul will stop the apocolypse and become human." So Spike helps save the the world and thusly can come back human to Angel.**************The New York Post has some tidbits of what to expect in the series finale of Buffy The Vampire Slayer - "The town of Sunnydale, where Buffy is set, gets sucked down into the hellmouth. A beloved, regular character really does get knocked off (I think I know). Spike 'does not die...he disappears'". As for a spinoff, exec producer Marti Noxon says "There's a lot of talk, but no decision has been made about a spinoff. Any number of the characters could be in a spinoff, but there won't be a spinoff right away. The dust will settle first for Buffy. Joss Whedon told SCI FI Wire that most of his related projects are on hold as he regroups in anticipation of the UPN series' imminent end. "Apart from Angel, no spinoff [are] in the works right now," Whedon said in an interview. "I think it's a very likely possibility, but there isn't anything happening right now. We all just kind of want to bask and relax." The projects include an animated Buffy TV series, a BBC show based on the character of Giles (tentatively called Ripper) and a Buffy spinoff series for UPN or another network. With regard to Ripper, Whedon said, "I wanted to do something on the BBC. We talked about a two-hour pilot. We talked about some episodes. We talked about a two-hour movie. It's gone through a lot of things. But the one conclusion I've come to, if I do something, I'll do it not as a setup so much as a story about Giles. I realize that, like Angel, you can use it as a premise, perhaps, to build something about ghost stories, and that would be fine. What I'm interested in is the character that Tony [Anthony Stewart Head] plays, not some mystery he might solve. And that's sort of a paradigm shift in what I might do with it. But I'm still very invested in the Ripper story." As far as the animated show, "I still like the idea," Whedon said. "We still have a bunch of really good scripts. But I won't do it at a price. That's a show that has to look wonderful. It has to be as good as it can be. And a lot of animation houses just can't contain that. So the money isn't there right now. So right now, I'm not planning on it." For his part, Head said in an interview that he remains game for Ripper. "Yeah, we talked about it," he said. Whedon "came up with a beautiful idea for it the other day, actually."

  • April 23, 2003, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Spoilers?

    by Electric_Monk

    The Shanshu prophecy said "The vampire with a soul will stop the apocolypse and become human." So Spike helps save the the world and thusly can come back human to Angel.**************The New York Post has some tidbits of what to expect in the series finale of Buffy The Vampire Slayer - "The town of Sunnydale, where Buffy is set, gets sucked down into the hellmouth. A beloved, regular character really does get knocked off (I think I know). Spike 'does not die...he disappears'". As for a spinoff, exec producer Marti Noxon says "There's a lot of talk, but no decision has been made about a spinoff. Any number of the characters could be in a spinoff, but there won't be a spinoff right away. The dust will settle first for Buffy. Joss Whedon told SCI FI Wire that most of his related projects are on hold as he regroups in anticipation of the UPN series' imminent end. "Apart from Angel, no spinoff [are] in the works right now," Whedon said in an interview. "I think it's a very likely possibility, but there isn't anything happening right now. We all just kind of want to bask and relax." The projects include an animated Buffy TV series, a BBC show based on the character of Giles (tentatively called Ripper) and a Buffy spinoff series for UPN or another network. With regard to Ripper, Whedon said, "I wanted to do something on the BBC. We talked about a two-hour pilot. We talked about some episodes. We talked about a two-hour movie. It's gone through a lot of things. But the one conclusion I've come to, if I do something, I'll do it not as a setup so much as a story about Giles. I realize that, like Angel, you can use it as a premise, perhaps, to build something about ghost stories, and that would be fine. What I'm interested in is the character that Tony [Anthony Stewart Head] plays, not some mystery he might solve. And that's sort of a paradigm shift in what I might do with it. But I'm still very invested in the Ripper story." As far as the animated show, "I still like the idea," Whedon said. "We still have a bunch of really good scripts. But I won't do it at a price. That's a show that has to look wonderful. It has to be as good as it can be. And a lot of animation houses just can't contain that. So the money isn't there right now. So right now, I'm not planning on it." For his part, Head said in an interview that he remains game for Ripper. "Yeah, we talked about it," he said. Whedon "came up with a beautiful idea for it the other day, actually."

  • April 23, 2003, 12:18 p.m. CST

    Haw haw

    by GypsyTRobot

    big Nelson laugh to all the Spike hata's in the hooouuuse! Here's hoping Angel falls on a stake (or reverts back to Angelus permanently) and Wesley becomes boss of Angel Investigations. If Blake's 7 could carry on without Blake, Angel could surely carry on without the lame-o title character. I'd also like to see the senior partners of Wolfram & Hart in corporeal form, and frequent visits by Faith and zombie-Lilah. Maybe one-eyed Xander could stop by to show off his pirate patch. Peace out. -- that wasn't pretentious, now was it? I was aiming for "obnoxious yet amusing." Just so ya know.

  • April 23, 2003, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Unanswered Questions

    by Bugaboo

    Ok if the Buffy/Angel seasons ends without these questions being answered I am going to be annoyed: Buffy: 1. What was the problem in the Slayer line that the First was looking to exploit? (I mean I know Buffy is alive but...details?) 2. Was it really Joyce or the First that appeared to Dawn and said "Buffy won't choose you" 3. What was the First's "Plan" for spike and for keeping Buffy alive awhile? Angel: 1. Why was it necessary to unleash Angelus? What did that accomplish?

  • April 23, 2003, 12:56 p.m. CST

    spoiler straight from tvguide.com

    by keyserSOZE

    in the may 7th finale description on tvguide.com, it says: "As a tormented Connor roams the streets of Los Angeles alone and confused, Angel and the others are visited by a familiar face who makes them an unusual offer: control of Wolfram & Hart. The messenger states that the higher-ups are relinquishing the firm as thanks for the gang's part in recent events. Everyone cautiously considers the consequences of joining forces with the evil outfit, especially Angel, who may now have an opportunity to finally set things right with his troubled son." so in other words lindsay comes back and offers angel the chance to run wolfram and hart

  • April 23, 2003, 12:57 p.m. CST

    spoiler straight from tvguide.com

    by keyserSOZE

    in the may 7th finale description on tvguide.com, it says: "As a tormented Connor roams the streets of Los Angeles alone and confused, Angel and the others are visited by a familiar face who makes them an unusual offer: control of Wolfram & Hart. The messenger states that the higher-ups are relinquishing the firm as thanks for the gang's part in recent events. Everyone cautiously considers the consequences of joining forces with the evil outfit, especially Angel, who may now have an opportunity to finally set things right with his troubled son." so in other words lindsay comes back and offers angel the chance to run wolfram and hart

  • April 23, 2003, 1:18 p.m. CST

    CAN WE GET BACK TO ANGEL SPOILERS

    by yoda900_ca

    herc, for a couple of weeks now no angel spoilers. This is the first angel solo update in weeks too. Whats with the slacking off? Hoping it's back on track soon

  • April 23, 2003, 1:19 p.m. CST

    CAN WE GET BACK TO ANGEL SPOILERS

    by yoda900_ca

    herc, for a couple of weeks now no angel spoilers. This is the first angel solo update in weeks too. Whats with the slacking off? Hoping it's back on track soon

  • April 23, 2003, 1:55 p.m. CST

    SPOILER - Re: Spike on Angel

    by whataruckus

    There's a link on Dark Horizon about what happens to Spike... I would have posted it, but figure I don't want to piss someone off with what happens at the end of Buffy. I like the twist and think it'll be an interesting character development for Spike and the dynamic between the two (Angel and Spike). Returning Element: humour?!

  • April 23, 2003, 2:03 p.m. CST

    BEST news to begin my day with

    by Smugbug

    Certainly. Well, I did read some of the Buffy spoilers yesterday. So I kinda already knew that it'd be a given that Spike appear on Angel. And makes perfect sense. VERY excited. I'm saddened at the demise of Buffy; but it seems the end of that series will only allow Angel to prosper.

  • April 23, 2003, 2:18 p.m. CST

    woohoo!!!

    by Sideshow Dave

    i think Spike on Angel is a good idea like when Worf came to DS9

  • April 23, 2003, 2:30 p.m. CST

    The whole thing about Spike and buffy blowing her chance

    by webofdarkness

    If Angel knew of this supposed prophesy then why didnt he go in Spikes place. Maybe because when he went human the first time he realized he needed to stay the way he was and wait for his chace after all the evil has been destroyed. Maybe Buffy and Angel DO NOT belong together-I dont know why people have a heard time letting go of that, and also the fact people go on and on about Spike being a pussy now. Why can he not be three dimensional. I am sorry but I think if he was on for 7 years being evil all the time it would get old. I though taking Spike in a new direction gave the show new blood to work with. *sigh* Oh well I guess people enjoy cookie cutter characters that never change and stay inside the box and don't take risks. Like the bland Pop/punk/rock music out right now. My rant is done. I bid you farewell. I will miss Buffy, and I am glad to see they are keeping Angel

  • April 23, 2003, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Spike, Angel and some answers?

    by Stoney-321

    I keep reading about this wimp Spike. As if he hasn't always been about the ladies? He was whipped as William, Evil Spike, Chip Spike and now soul Spike. But he can still kick ass. It would be awesome to see either Angel or Spike Shanshu, and then watch how the newly made human deals with losing superhuman strength and try to fight alongside the other vamp. I think the First kept Buffy alive because It was afraid of Freddie Prinze Jr. kicking it's ass for messing with his woman. you know, now that he isn't acting anymore, he has all of that free time....

  • April 23, 2003, 2:59 p.m. CST

    To Shanshu in...

    by Angelus_ego

    Oh yes! The best news ever! People wait for the next season.Its Lilah who appears in the season finale on Angel.Bye Bye Conner and after the hellmouth collapses Confused partevil/part good Spike comes to L.A W&H find out that he is the one mentioned in their prophecies and W&H Fang Gang go after him.Add Giles as the new HEAD(no pun intended) of the Watchers Council plus guest app. form Buffy cast and you have a whopper!

  • April 23, 2003, 3:05 p.m. CST

    Spike on Angel

    by edinburghlad

    I am sorry, but I think this is a really bad idea. Spike has become really boring and there's very little that can be doen with him that hasn't been done already. Angel has an excellent cast, and rather than add to it, they should take some away e.g. Conner & Gunn. Recent eps have shown Fred is an excellent character when given the spotlight. Gunn was excellent with Gwen, but as a Angel team member he is dull. If someone had to be added to the gang, then Gwen should (although she is strong enough a character to have her own series), or Lyndsay but not Spike, I'm bored of him! Dru would be a welcome return though.

  • April 23, 2003, 3:35 p.m. CST

    why hasn't this been updated?

    by Forget_Byron

    C'mon Herc, it's been at least 10 hours since this was posted. Surely those people who went to bed early are up by now.

  • April 23, 2003, 3:47 p.m. CST

    Spike as Buffy's toy isn't three-dimensional characterization

    by Drath

    You guys think I don't like Spike to call him whimpy, but you're wrong. I just don't think what's currently happening with him on Buffy is very interesting. For one thing, he worked a lot better when he was with a girl that returned his love. So they wanted to see what would happen with him without a girl for a while. Fine, that was good. Then he fixated on Buffy, which was good as a doomed relationship. Then he reformed for her only now the writers are walking on glass not to repeat the Angel relationship. They'd already done Buffy/Spike sex to death, so that's not the way to differentiate their relationship now from Buffy and Angel. Basically, there's no edge. At least with Angel there was angst because they couldn't be together. Right now, the obvious direction is for Spike to sacrifice himself to save Buffy just as he failed to do in season 5. Great, they can do that, it'll be a good follow up to Buffy killing Angel in season 2. But until then, he's on a backburner. He once said "I know I'm love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it." Now we need to see him kicking love aside and being his own man for a while. That won't happen on Buffy, but it *can* happen on Angel. What is cookie cutter about that? ********** I'm curious, Angel and Lindsey had a great rivalry going, and Angel and Spike were always at each other's throats. So even if just one of those guys is around next season(let alone both), then what becomes of the Connor/Angel situation? If Connor *doesn't* die like I was starting to think he might, will he and Angel get along in season 5? Personally, I think the angry son stuff has played out already. Too bad Angel wasn't forced to vamp Connor, that would have been a stronger tragedy than Connor constantly being brainwashed and it would have added a greater sense of guilt. But maybe ME thought that was too predictable and with too simple a resolution(Angel stakes Connor). Of course they could have factored in that demon blood that turns people human again to give Angel hope of saving his son, but you could pull that out for a lot of characters(Darla, Spike, etc).

  • April 23, 2003, 4:13 p.m. CST

    The problem with Angel:

    by Christopher3

    Who are the good guys again? The characters have all gone through so many reversals that you need a scorecard to keep the heroes straight from the villains. Also, the plotting has gotten so convoluted and wacky that it's difficult even for weekly viewers to figure out what's going on. Time to reset this one.

  • April 23, 2003, 4:52 p.m. CST

    ATS? Why ATS?

    by Blok Narpin

    Why are people refering to the show as ATS??

  • April 23, 2003, 5:12 p.m. CST

    I have a theory (and it doesn't involve bunnies or midgets)

    by ZakChase

    Let's say that Wolfram & Heart is making a grand return. What if the much-discussed senior partners decide that a new direction is in order? What if the partners decide that, maybe, they put some of the wrong people in charge and have been fighting on the wrong side? Enter new Wolfram & Heart board of directors -- Angel, Inc! Can you imagine a nice, shiny skyscraper as the gang's new HQ?

  • April 23, 2003, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Spike's sacrifice

    by CowgirlBebop

    All right, I don't want to be an impossible-to-please fangirl, (and I'd be very, very happy to see Spike continue as a character), but wouldn't the gravity of Spike's so-called sacrifice be undermined if the viewers knew he was going to live anyway?

  • April 23, 2003, 5:53 p.m. CST

    ATS

    by mr Broots

    I was wondering that myself before, but ATS should stand for Angel The Series, as oposed to ATC: Angel The Character.

  • April 23, 2003, 6:14 p.m. CST

    Angel: Series 5 - Spike

    by The Night Raven

    Look, if Spike shakes a seven in the Buffy finale, then he dies in the Buffy universe. That's it. Unless he pulls a "oh, i'm human" like Darla at the end of season one. The way Whedon will play it is to reavel even more of Angelus' past and show William the Bloody in flashbacks. The unseen Spike had better be more than the original. He has to be be better, than better! Where Brooding Darkness Spread's Its Evil Wings... ...The Night Raven stings!

  • April 23, 2003, 6:31 p.m. CST

    I hope the WB doesnt pull a Sci Fi Network on us!

    by cooper2000

    Great show, even though these last two episodes have been fairly lame. You think they may bring Lindsay back? If they bring Spike ever though they may not need all that Tostoterone. Get rid of Connor and Gunn!

  • April 23, 2003, 8:33 p.m. CST

    ok, cast question from IMDB...

    by keyserSOZE

    i was just looking through the cast list for Angel on imdb.com...and it says that for the 2003-2004 season there is a character named "cody laim" played by someone named caroline reitman...QUE?!? who the fuck is caroline reitman, and more importantly, who is this "cody laim" (too similar to corey haim, if you ask me) that she is apparently set to play?

  • April 23, 2003, 9:16 p.m. CST

    Spoooooon

    by coop

    This one is written by Ben Edlund. Is that spelling right?

  • April 23, 2003, 10:08 p.m. CST

    HELP!

    by Redro

    My Cable is on the frizt all i saw was squiggly lines after they went into the tunnel. Can someone tell me what happen.

  • April 23, 2003, 10:09 p.m. CST

    5 Star Episode.

    by BLADE

    I see you!

  • April 23, 2003, 10:12 p.m. CST

    Ben Edlund Rules

    by DyslexicHeart

    I so hope he continues on with "Angel" for it's (knock on wood) 5th season. Tonight's installment totally kicked ass. Solid performances, action, gore and plot devolpment. Although I thought it was a little out character for Wes to play it not so cool when he started to get info out of the spider-demon thingy. As always Boreanz is at his best when brooding and heroic. The Jasmine-channelling was pretty effective and creepy too, due to convincing performances by the supporting actors.

  • April 23, 2003, 10:15 p.m. CST

    Excellent episode, & question about the demon

    by GypsyTRobot

    Gory, scary, introduction of alternate dimension - what's not to love? Episodes like these make my Buffy allegiance waver. + Was that Mark Metcalf as the demon playing with the vampire's intestines? Quake players, doesn't this demon type remind you of the spidery Vores in Quake?

  • April 23, 2003, 10:19 p.m. CST

    Did she eat her?

    by Buff_Angel

    Cordelia is gone...vanished. Are we to assume that Jasmine ate or ingested her or whatever she does? Or is she simply hidden away in one of the many rooms of the hotel to be found in the finale? I know that Cordy has been less than amusing this year, but I would much rather seen daddy disappear. Of course, Jasmine may be a little confused. Connor is looking mighty girlie with that scrawny skinny body and that annoyingly long and stringy hair. One word comes to mind when I see him...ICK!!!

  • April 23, 2003, 10:29 p.m. CST

    Death on Buffy

    by Electric_Monk

    Xander will survive, if only to pull a guest shot on Season Five of Angel. It's Anya who'll die. Her entire arc has lead up to The Chosen and she'll die saving Xander. It's only logical. BTW, very creepy Angel tonight. The acting was top-notch and the Skittle thingy was cool, but easily defeated. However, guessed long before that Matthew was one of the Jasmine's followers. Loren gets all the best lines (thanks to Ben Edlund) and the direction was solid. Only two episodes left. Wonder how this will end.

  • April 23, 2003, 10:43 p.m. CST

    Religious allusions in Angel?

    by pkbabylon5

    Anyone else notice the nifty religeous allusions in the past couple of Angel eps? Jasmine is like the Christian God, everybody loves her and is smitten by her, she's all about the love and the worship and everyone who doesn't love her is evil and must be destroyed. Then the bug like demons from this weeks ep are like the Jewish people - "we loved her first" - and, like the Jewish religion, have this extra special name for their God that only the high priests are allowed to know. Think this was intentional?

  • April 23, 2003, 11:17 p.m. CST

    IMDB: not that trustworthy

    by GypsyTRobot

    not when it comes to cast lists of ME TV shows, anyway. I got burned by excitedly telling everyone here that Slim Pickens was listed for the cast of Buffy. I get the feeling it's easy to throw fake names on the lists.

  • April 23, 2003, 11:39 p.m. CST

    I think that was Mark Metcalf

    by kathylyon

    As the insecty demon. Wasn't it?

  • April 24, 2003, 12:53 a.m. CST

    Separated at birth: Connor and Dallas Maverick Steve Nash

    by jules windex

    Thats the secret to stopping Jasmine. In the polar dimension, or whatever the hell that was tonight, Angel meets Steve Nash, who comes through the portal to earth. He bounces a basketball off of Jasmine's head, and that breaks her spell, revealing that she is in fact....MARK CUBAN..(insert Psycho shreik here). As far as this "prized element," I'd say it's the singing, the karaoke. Next season Angel Investigations will team with Christopher Guest and tour the world singing demon folk songs and averting the apocalypse. "A Mighty Winnifred" perhaps?

  • April 24, 2003, 1:19 a.m. CST

    no way is cordy "eaten"

    by keyserSOZE

    or at least, she's not gone for good. no way would they send charisma out of the series like that...i mean christ, she was one of the very first people introduced in the buffyverse, do you really think they'd send her off with such little (and by little i mean absolutely none) fanfare? nah, cordy's comin' back...

  • April 24, 2003, 1:30 a.m. CST

    As long as...

    by Oompacabra

    As long as the current storyline is long gone, I'm all for it.

  • April 24, 2003, 7:23 a.m. CST

    Angel will be cancelled next season if Spike is in it

    by provider84

    Seriously. This Guy is Shit. He will bring nothing good. Whats the point of haven an angel wannabe on the show. The ratings will fall & Angel Will be cancelled. just look at Buffy, the ratings fell as soon as Fuckin Spike showed his granpa face and started all this "im a good guy shit" on the show PEOPLE STOPPED WATCHING. BRING WILLOW TO ANGEL.NOT SPIKE.

  • April 24, 2003, 9:36 a.m. CST

    Hey, a winner Angel Episode finally!

    by Drath

    Just about everything worked in this one! Jasmine talking out of people was effective and made her much more ominous. Although how come that kid Matthew took so long to fall under her spell? Was he a trojan horse? Angel's having to leave the others at the end, and that psycho spider-demon were all pretty fun. "Oh hell" was a great last line. Even Connor worked as Jasmine's sword-wielding pit bull enforcer in that Fellowship of the Ring, Moria-ending. I can even believe this is where they've wanted to take him all along--but I still think they've dropped the ball on his pathos getting here. ******** Sigh, I'm sick of arguing about Spike. I think you guys who hate Spike and insist that he will ruin Angel are dead wrong, and I'm tired of going over it again and again. Silveragent, what happened to you? I can't agree with a single thing you said in that last post. Only inhuman powers matter? Humanity is worthless? Are you being facetious or are you drunk?

  • April 24, 2003, 9:49 a.m. CST

    Jasmine is apparently a little retarded

    by Stoney-321

    So, it took her a bit to figure out her blood was important in the spell breaking, then we find out that her worshippers knew all along that "blood magic" is most important? Why didn't she make sure she was born with thick skin, or at least impervious to man made dangers or something. I'm a little disappointed with the Big Bads this year. Caleb is psycho enough, but why did we have to wait so long for such a cool character? Yeah, yeah, Firefly, but such a good character should have come sooner. Jasmine is striking me as weak and proving to be uninteresting.

  • April 24, 2003, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Alpacula

    by GypsyTRobot

    this reads like a Monster Manual entry. But you left off the stats, like how many Hit Dice it has, Armor Class, attacks, etc. Inquiring DM's want to know.

  • April 24, 2003, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Angel "Sacrifice"

    by AlyFox

    Anyone know who played the creature in Sacrifice, the one Wesley was talking to and Angel killed? His voice was so familiar, it drove me nuts.

  • April 24, 2003, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Spike would be great on AtS

    by arkaidy

    I've never really enjoyed AtS that much in the past, but I'll become a regular viewer if James Marsters is added to the cast. Spike could add so much to the story with all the built-in conflict--past and present--he'd bring with him. ME knows they have a winner in Spike. He is the most interesting character to ever come out of the Buffyverse.

  • April 24, 2003, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Mark Metcalf?

    by arkaidy

    Okay--someone has to check this out. It's obviously driving a few of us nuts! Was the spidery-demon last night played by Mark Metcalf (the actor who played The Master in season 1 of Buffy)? Sometimes he sounded EXACTLY like him, but sometimes not. One other thought I had--it'd be worth it to bring Spike to AtS just to have him sing for Lorne.

  • April 24, 2003, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Re: Drath--Thank God

    by arkaidy

    Drath--you're hoping for badass Spike instead of naked pussycat Spike. I'm gonna compromise and vote for naked badass Spike;-b Seriously, Marsters should be able to pull off anything the writers throw at him. He's played quite a range up til now. I kinda like the Spike now on BtVS--badass, smartass, and pain-in-the-ass, but still a great ally. Broody, put-upon Angel and hyperactive, thorn-in-the-side Spike would make a very watchable team.

  • April 24, 2003, 2:32 p.m. CST

    Making Angel such a Shit of a Dad is really RUINING his "heroic"

    by gwencannotact

    Angel has always been such a shitty father (like giving up on rescuing his baby son from the worst of all Hell dimensions after, like, a day of trying). But having him batter Connor bloody and unconscious for no reason but unjustified anger was a new low, even for him. He could have easily knocked Connor down and run, or, if he wanted to keep the kid engaged for a while, just held him off physically - we all know he is stronger and a better fighter than Connor. Having him bludgeon his son into a bloody pulp and then abandon him without even knowing if he would recover was just stupid. It made our hero look like an abuser. Angel knew that Connor was helpless under Jasmine's control, becaue Angel himself had just been under the same control, and done exactly what Connor was doing. Yet the writers had him batter his child out of anger. Sorry, but that cannot just be redeemed by him helping Connor out later and giving him a hug. For those who keep saying that it is good to see Angel battering his son, get a grip. Child abuse is not entertaining, no matter how much you dislike the kid. Angel just keeps proving himself to be a truly lousy parent - no wonder the kid hates him so much.

  • April 24, 2003, 5:19 p.m. CST

    Loved this show. Hope it gets cancelled now...

    by CaptainHendry

    I've been watching Angel since day one, but this current arc has been really in-your-face offensive. At first I thought the whole thing was meant to be a slam on David Koresh style cults and I had no problem with that, but I think it's pretty clear the writer's are gunning for anyone who celebrated Easter this year by going to church. Giveaways that this is the case: Describing Jasmine's story as "The Greatest Story Ever Told" in Shiny Happy People. This is directly correlating Jasmine with Jesus (the name is a giveaway too). The episode named Calvary and earlier in the season one called Slouching Toward Bethlehem (a slight based on Judge Bork's book). The whole Magic Bullet idea that reality means accepting the "death of God" and the responsiblity for creating one's own view of right and wrong, all of which is straight out of Sartrean existentialism. Also, if you weren't convinced, how about having Jasmine stretch out her arms like Christ in last night's episode as she's trying to murder everyone. I think this goes a little beyond satire. It's not even meant to be funny, just offensive. And I agree with another poster earlier who pointed out that the "demons" who worshipped Jasmine first, who have a religion of blood sacrifice, a high priest and a secret name for God are clearly a reference to Jews. So, on top of the really asinine anti-christian bigotry displayed in this arc let's add a some truly repulsive anti-semitism as well. A big thanks to Jeff Bell, author of several episodes this arc (and Slouching Toward Bethlehem) for all the wonderful enlightenment. Why didn't I see it before?! Christians are the big bad.

  • April 24, 2003, 6:13 p.m. CST

    To Shanshu in L.A.

    by Canis

    Anyone who remembers Angel as far back as the end of the first season will remember a whole load of prophecies about a Vampire with a soul who will save the world and be made human again as his reward. Bets on that Spike sacrifices himself at the end of Buffy S7 to save the world, gets remade as human and buggers off to L.A. Cue Joss' "Ha Ha you thought I was talking about Angel all that time" rants. Besides, how boring is it knowing that Angel will win in the end 'cos the prophecy says so. If the prophecy does turn out to be about Spike then Angel's future isn't so certain anymore.

  • April 24, 2003, 6:24 p.m. CST

    The creature sounded like Brent Spiner

    by DaMENACE

    AlyFox, The creature sounded alot like Brent Spiner to me. Couldn't be though as the creature was played by a decent actor.

  • April 24, 2003, 11:24 p.m. CST

    Now that was an awesome ANGEL ep!

    by Jarek

    That kicked ass! That spider demon thing was really creepy, the pace moved along really well, and there was a real sense of danger for all main characters. And Angel finally giving Conner a brutal ass-whupping was a bonus as well. Can't wait to see more of Angel in that other dimension.

  • April 25, 2003, 6:48 a.m. CST

    @silveragent

    by mare

    Where did you get the info on CC, JAR and AH? I heard that CC and DB are the only ones who will definitely show up in Season 5 since they already have contracts. I did hear something about Tom Lenk moving to AtS and to do that they would have to kill off Lorne, but the rumour is months old and I haven't heard anything about it for a long while. And JAR leaving is totally new to me. I haven't heard anything about that. So just wondering: Where did you hear it? And is this believable info?

  • April 25, 2003, 7:32 a.m. CST

    Characters Dropping Out...

    by DanielKurland

    I'll be seeing JAR this August, so if no conclusions have been made by then (which I am assuming they will be) I will ask him who is currently on the cast and how this new direction is heading and what is going on. *******Another good piece of news, with Buffy and Firefly writers now writing for Angel I am sure Drew Goddard will write a few episodes of it next season. He was amazing on Buffy, I am sure he will be even better on Angel.

  • April 25, 2003, 8:41 a.m. CST

    Contracts don't matter much these days, especially with ME

    by dxgarten

    Remember that when Seth Green left Buffy, he still had contract with them as well and yet, he managed to left the show without bruhaha. I think one simply needs to look at the current storyline and see what's working and what's not:*******Angel is definitely staying since he's the title character.*******Wes has been a character that drives the storyline for the show as well as being a complex, interesting character. His character development has been top notch and to top it off, the actor who plays him can act circles around the other actors. ME will be insane to ditch Wes at this point since he's actually a good spin-off material (esp. if combined with Faith).*******Lorne doesn't seem to do much and yet he doesn't take that much screen time either and a very entertaining character, I don't think he'll be out completely but on a reduced screen time maybe.*******Cordelia, well, she's been in a coma for a while now. Coma is a very useful story device to ensure that should the actor decided not to commit next year or not to commit full time next year, the writers then can just write a 'guest appearance' role for that character. Ditto with Connor who are not very popular with the audiences at this point in time.*******Gunn and Fred can go either way but I for one prefer to have them than another 24/7 session of naked Spike on my TV screen. I've seen enough of Spike's undead body and don't want to wish him on any show, especially not one as good as "Angel".

  • April 25, 2003, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Mostly liked it....

    by J2

    Gotta agree with "gwencannotact". I hated the scene with Angel beating his son unconscious and bloody and then leaving him behind. Once again, the writers have shown Angel as a crappy and even abusive Dad. Not good thinking on their part. It is easy to forgive our Hero for most of the bad stuff he does, because he usually has the greater good in mind, but child abuse is never justified. I am sure he will be shown feeling all guilty over it later, but that just won't cut it. On the plus side, I did like most of this episode. My favorite line: "Does anybody else feel like the last spunky wife in Stepford?" Cracked me up. The grasshopper-like demon did seem to be doing an impression of Brent Spiner as Dr. Soong (sp?) but I still enjoyed him. The actors who play Jasmine and Connor both gave especially strong performances this week, and the cliffhanger ending was kick-ass. So a good job overall.

  • April 25, 2003, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Religious Allusions

    by Phloton

    Hmm, blood sacrifces, bug people & secret God names = Jews. I'd like to know which publications (or independant movies) this information comes from. No one's making a correlation between Jasmine's destruction, and oh, let's say all the murder, torture, and genocide done in the name of Christianity. But I forgot, the winners write the history books.

  • April 25, 2003, 7:05 p.m. CST

    Bewarethe False Prophets, Capt. Hendry

    by The Raven

    Oh my freakin' God. Man, you are on the right track, but the wrong train. Of course there are going to be similarities with Jasmine to Christ, because she's the ANTI-CHRIST. Appearing as what she's not and how people are blindly following her remind of the line from the Bible that says beware the false prophets. This one is clearly false, and the chosen few (Angel Inc.) have set out to expose her. Watch the next few episodes, and it may all become clear to you. Well, at least that's the way I see it.

  • April 25, 2003, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Raven -- right train, right track

    by CaptainHendry

    There is no getting past the fact that all the major action in this arc has revolved around "deprogramming" Angel, Inc. from their false belief in Jasmine. First Fred, then Angel, then the others. The goal was to get them to "see" not just Jasmine's ugly mug (most didn't see that at all) but that worship songs, church picnics (that's what was going on in Angel's Hotel lobby -- everyone eating pie and cake), having the "warm fuzzies" for the supreme being and having a clear idea of right and wrong are all essentially deceitful ideas held by simpletons. As Fred put it, these people are "meat puppets." And they all need to be disabused of their ideas even if (maybe especially if) they don't want to be. Even if they all feel an existential sadness at the realization that there is no supreme being to comfort them. They just need to suck it up. Again, there's no question where this whole idea is coming from. This is existentialism 101. Sure, they could change course and take a new tack in the next ep., that won't change the fact that the last three have definitely been beating this existentialist drum. They have the right to do that, of course. I just want to point out this is what they're doing. In essence, they're giving anyone who went to church last week the finger. No doubt some of you will love them for it. Indeed, anyone who doubts that giving the finger to Christians gives some folks a giddy rush of cheap sanctimony, check out the post by Phloton.

  • April 26, 2003, 4:39 a.m. CST

    shut up you!!

    by hubris

    stop with all of the psuedo-intellectual b.s. and enjoy the show. you think whedon wants to alienate his already thin viewing audience? dummies

  • April 26, 2003, 4:56 a.m. CST

    Everyone just relax

    by Purple Rain

    There's been no official word. Whedon and his entourage weren't very worried about the season ender being a series ender so I'm not going to sit by my computer 24/7 waiting for the green light. On second thought, Whedon hasn't cared about this show since the nifty pilot so it may just crash and burn. I don't care if the show is mocking religion, believe in what you want and leave everyone else the hell alone.

  • April 26, 2003, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Christians ARE the big bad

    by Misled_Youth

    Religion is stupid. It puts restrictions on people's beliefs. I believe in God, but religions are just cults with fancy names given to them. Joss Whedon doesn't even believe in God, he's an athiest. So why would he go out of his way to be offensive to religious people when they make up most of the world (hint: people in the world are his demographic, although I don't know about people who are out of it). Really, if you're going to be one of these religious nutcases who thinks that Mighty Mouse was snorting crack, go ahead. We don't want to hear it.

  • April 26, 2003, 6:09 p.m. CST

    angel & buffy

    by cindy2002

    i am sorry that buffy is ending but glad that angel is continuing. hope that angel gets back to its former good plots. it would be great if Spike, willow and Faith could be on angel and give it a boost.

  • April 27, 2003, 3:06 a.m. CST

    Angel and "Religious Allusions"....hello, Jasmine is like an Ant

    by Hell's Cigarette

    First, I really loathe the Jasmine storyline. Second, it is far too much of a stretch to read into the storyline any anti-Semitism or Christianity bashing. If anything, the scene where Fred sees Jasmine's face for what it truly is suggests that she is a play on the Antichrist. Jasmine's use of intrigue to quickly gain a following coupled with the almost new age "feel the love" vibe clearly suggest "Antichrist" in my opinion.

  • April 27, 2003, 4:16 a.m. CST

    To the aptly named Misled Youth

    by CaptainHendry

    As for religion restricting people's beliefs, atheism restricts a person's beliefs too. The only way to remain "unrestricted" in your beliefs is not to have any. As to why Joss -- an atheist, so you say -- would want to dis religion? Uhh...take a guess. If what you mean is why would he offend his audience, I couldn't say. His motives are not something I can know at this point, though the evidence of the shows seems to suggest he isn't very fond of religion. To whoever said that this is all "pseudo-intellectual" crap (something like that) there's nothing pseudo about it. These are the ideas the writers are seeking to get across to the audience. Clearly a lot of people watching could care less (at least based on the posts here). Most fans want to kick back and enjoy the show as a big soap opera (dark shadows redux) and focus on thing's like Fred's hair or who's coming in next season. Fine with me. Honestly, Fred is very easy on the eyes and, most weeks, I'm not looking for a lot more depth in a show about vampires. It's supposed to be fun. I want it to be fun! It stops being fun when the writers make a concerted effort to, quite literally, demonize your religion and therefore you for being a "meat puppet" part of it. It's a slap in the face of a long time fan. In keeping with my convictions, I'm prepared to turn the other cheek, but I'm just calling them on it. What they've said in this arc is a scandal. If the show's ratings weren't so terrible, a lot more people would be crying foul.

  • April 27, 2003, 11:52 a.m. CST

    To Hell's Cigarette

    by Phloton

    I wasn't refering to the show as being anti-semitic. I was responding to other talkbackers and their comments. I wanted to know where they got information about blood sacrifices (or what internet chatroom they got it from). They didn't mention anything about Catholics drinking blood and eating flesh (albeit it's Jesus' flesh and blood, but it's still creepy).

  • April 28, 2003, 8:30 a.m. CST

    hmm...this news is...

    by nicole

    i don't know. i love angel, but i kinda think that they should quit while they're ahead. however, the fact that herc is ecstatic about the finale, and that after buffy's over, angel will most probably benefit by having the full attention of joss and co...it does make it a very tempting prospect. we'll see how this season ends. at the moment, i kinda think, with 2 eps left, it can go either way. i thought the season was kinda getting a bit disappointing when the whole jasmine thing was introduced, but it's still not too bad.

  • May 2, 2003, 3:21 p.m. CST

    spike would rule on angel

    by jaydreamr

    Spike moving onto Angel would be cool. Every ep with the two of them together is good. Upn ruined Buffy not Spike. "Let's buy an extremely popular show with a huge cult following. We'll take it from an established network the the kids and young adults like. We'll put it on our fledgling network that isn't available in most markets and see how fast we can destroy it." Well, it probably took a little longer than they planned. The last 2 seasons of Buffy were the best. Perhaps it went in a direction that little teeny bopper fans (that only watched for fashion tips) didn't understand but I think true horror/fantasy/scifi fans got it. I think it is ending on high note unlike the Xfiles or other shows I watched. Angel hasn't had the bite like Buffy. Watching the writers push ANgel and Cordy together made me sick. Gunn and Fred were boring. The only thing worth watching was Wes and Lila. Sure it picked up after Cordy was knocked up with the female Jesus. I don't see what was so offensive about mocking organized religions. World peace would come with a price Blah Blah Blah!!! Free speech, free will and all that good crap. The smart, witty writers of Angel could use a charachter like Spike to write for. let's say bye bye to Gunn, Connor and Cordelia who hasn't been funny since season one of ATS.

  • May 9, 2003, 8:49 p.m. CST

    Angel&Spike

    by Sassy2003

    Spike dies or is just gone?Take Spike back to 1872,no soul {All Vampire}And watch him and Angel spar,plus work somewhat to gether.Now that would be something to see.All so lose the blond hair and let Spike come back with his brown hair,not only as the big bad, but it would take years off.As for his acting as we all know,he can kick ass with any thing they throw at him, Now Im going to do the snoopy dance,Wow

Top Talkbacks