Cool News
TWO TOWERS Goodies!!
Hey, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab.
It’s funny... running LOTR stories at this point almost feels like overkill. I agree with the philosophy that New Line is taking on their RETURN OF THE KING ads: not yet. Not for a while. Yes, I’d love to see footage, but we’re about to launch into one of the craziest geek summers on record, and there’s no reason for them to start the ball rolling too early. After the last few years, I think awareness is running pretty high for this last chapter of PJ’s epic saga, and as a result, they can kick back this year and just sort of let us simmer.
One of the things that is going to help is the release of THE TWO TOWERS Extended Edition. I know someone who’s seen this now, which means that I hate someone I know now. At least I have a date on which to pin all my hopes and dreams in the meantime:
From Ringer Sylvan:
Greetings!
I work in a small independent rental video retailer, and was quite pleased upon arriving at work today to find we had received an official release date for The Two Towers!
This came in the form of a CD-ROM "Digital Announce Kit" which contains everything from upcoming TV & radio promos, ad slicks and product images (including packaging art and DVD menu images), to computer wallpaper and icons, as well as two "countdown" screensavers. It also had a hi-res poster scan, very clever interactive menus "hosted" by Gollum featuring a 3 minute retailer trailer outlining the upcoming Merchandising Campaign, and most importantly, all of the pre-order and release date information. Release date for the Theatrical Edition will be August 26th, and the Extended Edition will be November 18th. I have uploaded a few of the images for your perusal. Enjoy!
News Story:
CLICK HERE FOR THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE!!Thanks to all those who forwarded this, and to TORN for running it.
"Moriarty" out.
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Had an ocean!
across the USA
then everybody'd be surrrfin like cali-for-ni-aaa!
Im first na na na -
If an extended edition is going to exist, who wants to even BUY the standard edition? Suckers, that's who. In November they will be complaining about how they didn't know another edition would be available, yadda yadda yadda, New Line is so evil, blah blah blah.
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Maybe someone with limited DVD shelf space? Or perhaps people who arent as obsessed as some people are with LOTR? I havent even gotten around to buying Fellowship in any form, I do intend to, its just not a priority just yet.
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1) People who don't like "extended cuts" 2) People who can't wait 3) People who are cheap ***The way they are doing it is perfect, if they didn't release the theatrical version, people would complain about the price, taking so long, and the original version not being available.
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Shit, those even happen to be me and my sister's birthday months, but I don't want to wait that long!!! AAAAGGGGHHH! (mandatory impatient bitching, check)
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Apr 21, 2003 9:50:39 AM CDT
fuck the standard edition, who wants to buy it in fucking FULLSC
by tv casualty
Weird that they even SELL it that way. Although I don't think the extended edition comes fullscreen. Anyway, I've already got the theatrical cut on DVD, so I'm stuck waiting until November. Dammit.
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Can't wait to get my hands on that there Two Towers Extended Edition.
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until the Return of the King comes out! It feels like such a long time to me. Remember when waiting for a Star Wars movie to appear was this nerve wracking? Sigh....
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Hey gang...at IGN they have some more info on the extended edition, straight from PJ's mouth. For example: more scenes added/extended than were in Fellowship, including Huorns at Helm's Deep and Merry and Pippin drinking ent-draughts. I dunno why Harry didn't post this info on AICN...I e-mailed him about it last week. To me, IGN's story is more interesting than hearing about a Gollum-hosted CD-ROM that most of us AICN readers will never see. Go to www.ign.com, click on movies (on the menu along the left side), and find the story about PJ. You may have to search an archive at this point, the news was out a WEEK ago!
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to put both the fullscreen and widescreen versions on the same disc, why isn't every movie released that way? I'm sick of putting a movie on hold, rushing to pick it up after work, and getting it home only to discover it's the fullscreen cop-out edition. Put on both, that way evryone is happy,.
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Release an "Extended Edition" of a film that's _already_ a half hour too long. I tell you what, cut that whole 15-20 minutes of Aragorn and Arwyn going over the _same crap they went over in the first film,_ then I'll be excited about more footage. Or, cut Sam & Frodo's _pointless_ trip into Gondorwith Faramir. As it stands, the theatrical cut of TT is a very good three hour movie, that would've been an _astounding_ two and a half hour movie.
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I know I bought both versions of FOTR. The Extended Edition does add some nice stuff but then again it did add some annoying stuff as well. Was anyone else a bit miffed seeing hobbits mowing down Uruks by throwing stones at them in full body armour & helmets? Christ, they wouldn't have needed Gandalf & co. to shown up at Helms Deep if they had instead brought Merry & Pippin.
Hopefully TTT wouldn't add anything so irritating as that.
Of most interest to me though will be the audio commentaries which will hopefully cover why they changed certain characters from the books to what they were in the film itself (i.e. Faramir & Treebeard). -
Apr 21, 2003 11:23:46 AM CDT
Wee Willie is right, I'm waiting for the ULTIMATE COLLECTOR'S ED
by russman
I love both movies and I know I'll love the 3rd one too, but I'd rather wait for the whole thing in one nice package.
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I already have the theatrical cut on bootleg dvd. Even if I didn't, I still wouldn't buy the standard dvd. I bought it last year because I just couldn't wait till November...and now I don't/can't watch it anymore. I can hardly watch my Two Towers bootleg either; as much as I love the movie, it feels like a 3 hour preview for the extended cut. I need the ents to be fleshed out. I need a less-abrupt ending to the battle of Helm's Deep. I need all those scenes I remember from the trailers: "Sauron fears you, Aragorn. He fears what you may become..." "So Gandalf thinks he has found the lost king of Gondor." And lastly I need the Rivendell/Lorien stuff expanded. That part of the movie was very badly edited.
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I watched Fellowship last night, and there's a part in Moria where they show that orcs can climb up and down walls. So in TTT why didn't the army of orcs just climb up the walls of Helm's Deep??? Yes, I know orcs couldn't climb walls in the books, but it's in the movies...
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Thanks for the link to that info. MiserableRainGod. Speaking of stuff thats in the trailers that's not in the films (theatrical release anyway) did anyone else notice they sneaked in a clip from ROTK into FOTR trailers?
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The orcs in the movies are differentiated into separate subcategories or breeds, depending on their environment. The Moria orcs (who have those big cockroach eyes 'cause they live in the dark) could conceivably have climbing skills because they'd evolved in the caverns of Khazad dum. Other orcs might not have this innate ability. A theory anyway.
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7 versions of Evil Dead, Evil Dead 2, and Army Of Darkness? Sure, no problem. 4 versions of Highlander? Check! 6 versions of Terminator and Terminator 2? I'm there. OK, moving on. As extended versions, director's cuts, and international editions go - yes, bring 'em on. There are, though, on occasion, some scenes that appear on these discs, as deleted shots or added footage, that should have been happy to be left on the editor's wastebasket. Echoing TS Thomas' previous post about the extended Fellowship's Merry & Pippin "rock-throwing mowing down Orcs and Uruk-Hai" scene, it DID seem to faintly echo the painfully laughable "Ewoks kicking Empire ass with rocks and sticks" finale in Return Of The Jedi. In the novels, Tolkien DOES present Hobbits as deadly rock-skippers, but hey, come on, really...
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Heresy! We're all wasting our precious lives on stupid crap every day, might as well waste buckets of our lifespan on something slightly less stupid/crappy than usual.
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I like the theatrical. The editing was great. and the pacing was perfectly executed. Sometimes I dont want to sit through all the extra exposition, I just want to see the movie the way it was meant to be watched in the theater. The extended set is like a fucking birthday present for the super-fan who wants the whole story. And the time to burn on a sunday after you got all the boring shit (paying the bills, laundry,) taken care of.
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Apr 21, 2003 3:23:24 PM CDT
Will the Special Edition show us how Gandalf & the Balrog got fr
by ralph cifaretto
It was a brilliant decsion to start the film with Gandalf's balrog battle, but they made it too short, I think. Much from the book is not there, and Gandalf's experience is not conveyed, IMO. What was it like for HIM to go through this? The film doesn't tell us. Maybe the Special Edition will flesh out that scene.
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Apr 21, 2003 3:33:47 PM CDT
something else I missed from the book & hope is in the Special
by ralph cifaretto
When we first see them, Frodo & Sam are lost. In the book, Frodo is upset that they're loosing valuable time. He seems to feel that he is behind schedule somehow. (??who's schedule?? the dark lord's maybe? or gandalf's?) Anyway, it was suspensful and made their story more tense. Hope that's in the SP. ED.
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Apr 21, 2003 3:51:04 PM CDT
once again, I'm still waiting for the whole tomato box set to co
by tall_boy
I thinkin' there's no way they *won't* do a ultra-expanded edition box set somewhere down the line. Now I know they did announce the Extended Edition and Standard Version of Fellowship when it came out, but seriously, only the DVD geeks knew. *Everyone* I know who is just a regular consumer felt gyped by seeing an advertisement for an extended edition RIGHT when they opened the box. I think the fair way to release them is to release the extended and regular versions side by side to allow the consumer to choose. Of course, that argument is kinda pointless now cuz people know about the standard/extended thing they're doing. Anyway, yeah, I got a standard Fellowship last year cuz I was going out with a girl who worked as a manager at blockbuster so I scored a copy there and I'm pretty sure my sister or someone else will buy the Two Towers standard (probably fullscreen, though. ugh) when it comes out. So, yeah, I'm sticking to my guns, downloading DVD screener rips and gonna wait till the whole thing is out in a signle set that way you can enjoy it more.
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Apr 21, 2003 5:08:59 PM CDT
When or where was it ever confirmed that the Hobbits actually KI
by nice marmot
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... so I don't know why anyone would even consider buying the DVD, extended or not. Why does it suck, IMHO? Because it dosent resemble the book. It should have a tag during the opening credits 'THE TWO TOWERS - A FILM LOOSELY BASED ON THE BOOK OF THE SAME NAME'.
Examples? The Elves appearing during the battle of Rohan. Didnt happen in the book, and robs the battle of the "humanity triumphs over great evil' theme that Tolkien was trying to convey. And the incredibly easy way in which the elves die during that battle.... I mean, if Elves have the kind of agility we saw when Legolas jumped up onto that moving horse, then dodging arrows should be childs play for them.
Now, dont get me wrong... I understand that when a book is translated into a film that there are always going to be things cut for time. I accept and understand that. But its when whole scenes are added and scenes that were in the book are removed to make time for the new scenes that I take umbrage.
Take for example, the whole Aaragorn/Arwen love crud. That is just boring. And yet they removed whole scenes in the book to make room for them. And the new scenes issue is only made worse when the new scenes actually create massive plot holes.
Take for example, Frodo offering the ring to the Wraith. This did not happen in the book. Why? Because the journey of the ring was supposed to be a secret from Sauron. In the book, Sauron only knows of the Rings whereabouts twice... once at the battle at Weathertop, and the second time, when it had been thrown into the fires of Mt.Doom, which is when he realised that all his plans were now for naught. But if the events depicted in the film where to have ocurred... when Frodo offered the ring to the Wraith, Sauron would have seen that not only was the Ring on its way to Mt Doom (thus alerting him to what the Fellowships plan was) but that the Ring was in a poorly guarded, near defenceless human town just next door to where Sauron lived. He would then have sent his entire army to get the ring, and that would be that. MASSIVE plothole, and wholey unforgivable. Phillipa Boyd claims shes a huge fan of the book... if thats true I dont see how she could have allowed that.
Or how she could have allowed the plot hole which is created when Merry & Pippin meet 'The White Wizard'. Treebeard tells Merry & Pippin that he thinks they are Orcs. He says "maybe you are, maybe you arent. Either way, the White Wizard will know". He then plunks them down infront of a White Wizard, whose face we do not see. Now, lets assume for a second, that this wizard is Sauraman. If its him, Merry & Pippin would have been taken to Isengaurd and that would have been the end of their story. But was the wizard Gandalf... hed have told Treebeard they arent Orcs. But if it was Gandalf, and he had told Treebeard that they werent Orcs, then the scene at teh Entmoot later, when Treebeard announces that the Ents have decided that they are not Orcs, is pointless and contradictory.
Add to this, the fact that they tricked the Ents to go to war, the character assassination on Boromir, the way Gimili is used for comic relief (I GET ITM DWARVES ARE SHORT! SHEESH!) and this film can be seen as nothing short of terrible.
I was frothing at the mouth to get the extended edition for FoTR, because Fellowship was a great film. Sure, it had changes too, but they were small changes which I could accept. The Two Towers though, is a completely different kettle of fish, and I wont be buying it. For shame Peter Jackson... for shame! -
... when I said "the complete character assassination on Boromir" I mean Faramir. That is all.
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If you are simply trolling...My God, we have heard the purist whines for a good long time. I see nothing new here. Whaaahh, they didn't make the movie a simple page for page filmic version of the book. Whaahh. Please, just stop. Your embarrasing yourself. If you are just trying to stir the pot, well, you may have to try a bit harder, or at least find something new to say.
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Apr 21, 2003 11:26:11 PM CDT
Alice, I see of the TE's your the only other one here
by conan_the_humble
What's the number of the 'old' tb. The Ian McKELLEN one? It seems to have disappeared from the pages, oh and effegee, I too am a purist but am happy to accept that the movie IS different from the book and no amount of whining is going to change that. Yes the story is now somewhat illogical. Who cares? We'll probably never get a better TTT movie. Be thankful for what you have and hope PJ et al get back on track for ROTK. Cheers.
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they tear Purists in two over here. + I'm just annoyed to hear that the DVD isn't out til August, and it's not even the extended version. What a gyp!
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I just cant get excited about RoTK. Again, this TTT fault. Its warped the LOTR story beyond recognition. Sure we'll get nods to things that happened in the book version of RoTK, but after the set up PJ's version of TTT gave us, all I can assume is that RoTK will be yet another film whose events will be 'lossely based on the book of the same name'. Anyway... taht said, I do agree that with the fact that whats done is done and we cant change it, but that dosent change my opinion that Peter Jackson was 100% the wrong man to helm this film franchise. Again... for shame Peter Jackson For shame. Look out for King Kong, PJ's next project, where we find out Kong is actually a cow, and not an ape!
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Instead of having bookends with this Special Edition of LOTR, might I recommend some nice Gollum oven mitts. They would be stylish and handy. For an added bonus they could call your food "precious". What would be better than hearing Gollum call your chilli precious!
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Effigy: While all of your criticisms are valid, I still enjoyed TTT. I have read the books probably a dozen times over the years, so I consider myself well-versed in Tolkien's mythology.
You correctly pointed out what i thought was the biggest mistake in PJ's adaptation of TTT...the scene where Frodo offers the Ring to the ringwraith. That definitely aborts the entire strategic plan that Tolkien weaved so eloquently. Sauron is so evil, he cannot envisage the plan that the West wants to destroy the Ring. All his mind is bent on the fact that the Ring has been found, and that a great Captain would claim the Ring as their own, and assail Mordor in order to vie for mastery of Middle-Earth.
Unfortunately, PJ's alteration of the Sam and Frodo's meeting with Faramir, and having the Ring revealed in Osgiliath, totally ruins Tolkien's very premise of having the Ring brought thru Mordor in secrecy, and perform the ultimate task that Sauron himself could not possibly expect.
With that said, I still found the TTT movie to be epic in scope and presentation, and it transported me to Middle-Earth for three hours. I can live with the plot-changes, and hope for a better and more faithful interpretation in the upcoming ROTK. I still have faith in Peter Jackson, and disagree wholeheartedly that he was the wrong director for this project. Putting TTT aside, how can you say that after the note-for-note perfection of FOTR.
So there were some stumbles made in TTT...I am confident that ROTK will blow everyone away. -
it doesn't take itself as seriously and has a distinctive climax to the film with a killer 3rd act. Unlike Fellowship that ran out of steam after Gandalf went over the bridge of Kazahdum and then dragged for another hour or so.
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Those things runnign up and down the walls in Moira were GOBLINS, not Orcs!
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Could you wankers stop saying "IMHO" after arrogantly criticizing another person's work.
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What I've always wondered is why they never built the DVD players to do the pan and scan on the fly so you didn't need to store two versions of the same movie. Just have the player zoom in on the frame and pan back and forth based on a small set of instructions encoded on the disc ("pan left 45% until 0:23:56, go to center until 0:24:45, pan right 70%..."). If the DVD makers and movie producers could agree on a way to do this we wouldn't NEED two version of a movie, or even two discs (like Shrek). Does anyone know a technical reason no one ever built this into the original DVD spec? It seems like it would have been a great way to both the movie fans and the unwashed po'buckers of Blockbuster happy at the same time.
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You don't have to agree with them, but say why, don't just insult them for it. About those criticisms of Jackson's film, I have a few explanations(sorry if I'm being an apologist, I know how annoying that can be when you feel let down). Jackson hasn't finished the films, so we don't yet know how he'll rework the events of Return of the King to accomodate the "plot hole" created by Frodo meeting a Ringwraith. My guess is that Sauron will assume the One Ring is on it's way to Gondor, because remember he could never conceive that they'd actually intend to destroy it. That arrogance on his part was a big factor in the books, and the next battle does happen at the White City. I agree it was a dull part of the movie, and the guy playing Faramir lacked presence, but that might not be the huge plot hole it appears to be(treating the series as a whole and not as individual parts anyway, but feel free to still hold them at fault for that). I've only seen the film once, so there may be answers to your other concerns that I don't remember. I thought Gandalf was a little befuddled when Aragorn and the others found him, so I don't know if he was in his right mind to tell Treebeard anything concrete about the Hobbits. I assumed the Ents just had to decide for themselves--they were notoriously slow, afterall, and redundancy is not unexpected with them. I don't remember the character assassination of Boromir or the Ents being tricked as deviating from the book. Boromir did mess up, Faramir does act as man's redemption in that regard, and the Ents weren't going to join the fight until they discovered what Saruman had done to the trees of Isengard. It's been a while since I read the books though, and I'm not a fanatic Tolkien reader, so maybe I'm misremembering.
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I didn't like TTT nearly as much as FotR, and I'm hoping that the extended edition can right some wrongs. In the meantime, I do think that people are talking about it in more negative terms than it deserves. First: the Ring in Osgilliath, and Frodo offering it to a Ringwraith. In the book, Sauron could not imagine that his adversaries would destroy the ring, and thought that the ring was taken to Gondor, to Minas Tirith. I think that the Ring showing up in Osgiliath (on its way to Minas Tirith?) doesn't change that premise. Second, Elves at Helms Deep. Several things can be said about Helms Deep. A. in the book, Helms Deep doesn't play such a large role as it does in the movie; at no point during that chapter do we get the sense of despair and bravery that the movie tries to convey (for those familiar with earlier posts, as "Frija", I have changed my opinion on this issue somewhat). B. the Elves at HD is (are?) probably a remnant of an earlier draft in which Awen showed up at Helms Deep. But let's face it, they don't change the storyline. C. Most importantly, PJ had to make a movie that would "stand alone" - other than the book, the moviemakers had to convey the complexities and depth of Middle Earth to naive viewers. And allowing the viewers to see more of the Elves did help with that. Third, the changes in Faramirs character. While it's true that Faramir is not mr goody two-shoes anymore, in the book he doesn't go so far as to "forfeit" his life for Frodo. Also, thanks to him, we get to see Osgilliath being conquered (which gives us some impression of the terrible force of Mordor) and we get to see Frodo offeringthe Ring to a Ringwraith, one ofthe most beautiful images of the entire movie. And while his men are cowering, Faramir is the only one brave enough to stand against the Nazgul. The image of Frodo offering the Ring to a Nazgul conveys so much emotion, it conveys many words that Tolkien wrote, all condensed in a single scene. It's true that a more faithful adaptation would show Frodo struggling with the Ring, but perhaps in a movie, that would tire us rather quickly. Fourth, I disagree with Liz Tyler being a bad acrtess - I thought she was fantastic, and that the scenes between her and Hugo Weaving were fantastic. ______ Also, someone commented on the hobbits throwing stones at the Uruk-hai. It's in the book that hobbits are at their best throwing rocks! Naturally, Merry & Pippin would defend themselves throwing rocks. And i don't know about you, but if I were hit with a rock the size that they were throwing with, I'd be knocked off my feet, too. _______ Lastly, I do hope that in the movie, like in the book, the battle at Minas Tirith will convey more of a sense of despair and bravery than the HD battle did. I also hope that we get something closer to an "R" rating. _______ Cheers.
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I'm a huge fan of the books and films, and not a purist. I understand that things that work on paper don't always work on film. I don't mind when themes are added or removed, or changed, in a movie adaptation; what I do mind is when they are devices which really make no sense and which detract from the film(s). In TTT, PJ had this theme going where all of the powerful good guys, except for Aragorn and Galdalf, make bad decisions, and then have to do the right thing later on. I don't know why this theme was added rather than stick to Tolkien's story, but it causes problems within the movie universe. Treebeard is a member of a very old and wise race; he's the oldest creature on Middle-Earth. But he makes a bad decision, to leave Saruman alone. Later, he needs to be tricked by two hasty hobbits. Elrond makes a bad decision by choosing to send his elves, including Arwen, over the Sea. King Theoden acts more useless AFTER Gandalf frees him; making bad decision after bad decision. Worst. King. Ever. Faramir, ditto. The Faramir one is the worst, because it absolutely throws the movies' timeline out of whack. For Sam and Frodo to lose so much ground, they would probably lose almost a month of travelling time. The entire war that Aragorn and Gandalf are waging is strictly a diversionary tactic...so that month of lost time is major. The timeline has been a MAJOR problem in these movies...In FOTR, the Nazgul are arriving in The Shire when Gandalf is just leaving Minas Tirith, but somehow he reaches Frodo first. I love the films, very much, but they have storytelling problems that it doesn't take a purist to see. If I was making purist arguments, I would start by reminding everyone that the title The Two Towers actually refers to the towers of Gondor, which Frodo sees as he travels (in the books): Minas Arnor (Tower of the Sun) and Minas Ithil (Tower of the Moon). Minas Ithil was taken over by evil and renamed Minas Morgul, the Tower of Sorcery (home of the Nazgul), and so Minas Arnor became Minas Tirith, the Tower of the Guard. Anyway, I disagree with Effigee that Peter Jackson wasn't the right guy to make the films; he certainly was, and he's done a fantastic job. He deserves best director next year. But there are problems, and if you don't acknowledge them you're suffering from fanboy-thinks-hero-can-do-no-wrong syndrome.
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What's wrong with IMHO? What the hell is the point of these talkbacks, if not to offer criticisms and opinions? Are we just supposed to praise everything mindlessly? Art is supposed to make us think: What was the artist trying to do? Did they do it well? How does the art reflect/comment on real life? That's art. That's why we're here. We're not clones of you, reignman, so we're all going to have different opinions, and we're going to voice them. If you don't like them, then stop reading. So sorry that you think these movies are so perfect that they don't deserve criticism. Wait, no I'm not. Criticism leads to growth. The enjoyment of art shouldn't be passive; it's active. But I guess you like every movie you've ever seen, every song you've ever heard, ever video game you've ever played, every painting you've ever seen, every book you've ever read. Never had anything bad to say, so we shouldn't either, right?
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Apr 22, 2003 11:08:54 AM CDT
Miserable RainGod is right (cool name too). The sense that ther
by ralph cifaretto
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What I *think* reignman was objecting to was not discussion or criticism, but the insertion of that awful overused acronym "IMHO" itself. "In my humber opinion" is a very stale phrase, whether written out or in its endless overuse on the internet. I say, speak your opinions and be proud of them, if they are honest and not trolling. My own opinions, briefly stated, are that FOTR is a masterpiece of art, acting and adaptation, with only enough imperfection to prove it was created by man, not God, and TTT is a mix of the sublime and the deeply flawed, chiefly in the adaptation of certain characters (on which I have elaborated at length in other forums, so will not go into here); however, regardless of which way ROTK goes, I can't imagine a team other than Jackson's that could have brought LOTR to the screen with this degree of passion, artistry and commitment, so I would NEVER say he is not the right man for the job (or his partners the right men and women). ***Conan, we have been gathering on 14967, if you want to catch up.
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I'm aware the hobbits throw rocks, I've read the books :) I just don't feel the extent of the damage they were causing was "right".
If someone throws a brick at my car I don't expect it to stop dead. I don't expect guys in full body armour & helmets to drop dead either when hit by smallish rocks being tossed at them. Sure if they were unarmed I'd feel a bit better about it, but they weren't.
As for where was it confirmed they "killed" the orcs? Well Nice Marmot I said they "mowed" them down, I never said they killed them. Regardless they took them out of it in some form or another.
Effigy2002, Frodo offer the Ring to a Ringwraith wouldn't indicate they were on their way to destroy it. Besides in the book Sauron assumes (far as I recall) that Gondor would take the ring & that IS where it was being taken. That scenes not in the book, sure, but its hardly a plothole & for someone who read the book I'm not sure where you're getting that conclusion from :) Same with your Ents confused over the hobbits being Orcs, or not. The book has the same scene at Entmoot! They decide they aren't Orcs as well! -
If indeed you were merely objecting to the abbreviation "IMHO," then I'm sorry for jumping down your cyber-throat. BUT, the whole "wanker" thing made it seem like you were attacking us for our opinions, not for our use of the (admittedly overused) IMHO.
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Don't take offense to that, it's just a common aussie phrase, no big deal. what I meant by not saying IMHO is not to state your opinion, just that when some people spew endless amounts of venom to another person's work, it doesn't seem right to label that a "humble" opinion, it's just an opinion. A "humble" opinion would be diplomatic, and that's the last thing you're gonna find on an AICN talkback. Basically, cut the crap. And I wasn't telling anybody what to do, it was a request, so if nobody wants to do it, nobody's gonna care.
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Mad Radhu wrote:
What I've always wondered is why they never built the DVD players to do the pan and scan on the fly so you didn't need to store two versions of the same movie. Just have the player zoom in on the frame and pan back and forth based on a small set of instructions encoded on the disc ("pan left 45% until 0:23:56, go to center until 0:24:45, pan right 70%..."). If the DVD makers and movie producers could agree on a way to do this we wouldn't NEED two version of a movie, or even two discs (like Shrek). Does anyone know a technical reason no one ever built this into the original DVD spec? It seems like it would have been a great way to both the movie fans and the unwashed po'buckers of Blockbuster happy at the same time.
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What you describe is in fact part of the DVD specification. It is a player requirement. I'm not sure why we haven't seen more content with meaningful pan-scan information.
There is a sacrifice in image resolution when the player does the pan-scan on the fly, so the current situation is not all bad for the full-screen consumer.
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Thirty four weeks (efe) until LotR:RotK!!!!!!!!!
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While I agree that Jackson
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Hi, Morgoth! Long time, no see. How's la vie? ________ About those two towers: I think the movie's decision to have the title "two towers" refer to Barad-dur and Isengard (see note later on) is not just a good idea;, it's the only possibility given the constraints of story of the movie. Ending at the flooding of Isengard and the battle of Helm's Deep, the story has barely touched upon Minas Morgul and Minas Tirith! So one couldn't name a movie after either of them, right? I think "a union of the two towers" also allows for the bad guysto determine the second movie (like "the empire strokes back") if you know what I mean. _______ Note: the name "Orthanc", being the tower of Isengard, isn't mentioned in the movie, and I think such would just be confusing for the non-reader - though it is mentioned in one of the trailers.
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Hola Thing-fish
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Hola Thing-fish
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but it still doesn't make up for the fact that there was no "last reel attachment" at the end of March as there was last year. And August 26th, sad to say, is still FOUR FRIGGIN' MONTHS AWAY!!! Woe is me. ***Thing-Fish, your little confession up top really blew me away. Although I am quite glad to read of your change of heart, I am curious as to what caused said change. Excellent post up there, btw. ***Re the "Who watches the FotR theatrical DVD anymore" question, let me just say that since I'm still watching *my* version, that I am still watching at least the first half. Also, I do plan to follow Pallando's suggestion, so sometime this summer, in preparation for the release of the theatrical LotR:T2T DVD, I plan to watch only the theatrical version of LotR:FotR. ***So morGy, did you save some birfday day cake for the rest of us, or did you hog it all fer yer ownself?
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...only ashes. Sooty ashes and dust. KIDDING! C'mon by, I think there's a piece stuck behind the couch! I agree, I'm still miffed too about not getting the four minute preview in March. WOnder if our first peview won't be until Aug? Bother...oh, I watched the theatrical Fellowship t'other day too.
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Apr 24, 2003 5:17:02 AM CDT
Ugly as I mights be, i AM yo futum! Aint that right sister Ob'de
by thing-fish
Actually, the only time in the book that the words "two towers"are mentioned, is in reference to the Morannon. But i don't think those towers are as good a topic for the book's/movie's title. _______ MorGoth - I'm sorry, I promised you a Zappa interview in which he mentioned Tolkien, and I haven't yet! If you are still interested, I'll do so next week, would that be OK? I'm away from home right now. _______ I would think that a Nazgul's Ring-sensing capabilities are good enough to discern it if a hobbit were to offer it to him. So, one possible solution is to assume that the Nazgul reporting the Ring to his superior, and Aragorn looking into the Palantir, occur close enough in time for it not really to matter - time-wise, it should only be a few days' difference, right? Seems plausible enough to me. ______ Of course, a nice hobbit snack might of course be delicious to any self-respecting fell beast, and even though there were many larger, fatter, probably juicer individuals cowering around, a hobbit would be a good aperitif.
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Almost forgot about that! IMHO, it serves, simply, to showcase the increasing power of the Ring, Frodo's loneliness as Ring-bearer, the hopelessness of his plight, and his decreasing abilities to resist the Ring, and so on, IMHO. Of course, IMHO, there are many words in the book that convey that message to the reader, but in a movie, IMHO, we need visual imagery, and seeing the imagery of Frodo just struggling with a heavy ring wouldn't quite have the same impact as it does in written form, IMHO. :-) IMHO, IMHO, IMHO, IMHO!!!!!
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We've reached a milestone of sorts this week -- now that the August 26th release date has become official, it means that as of Tuesday, there are eighteen weeks until T2T DVD day (30 until SEV). Since Wednesday was 34 weeks until RotK day, that means that 18 weeks have passed since T2T was released. Therefore, we have just reached the halfway point between the theatrical and DVD release dates, thus, it's all downhill from here!!!!!!!!! Whew.
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Coaxial, huh? Actually, near us they've already started offering mugs and posters and other geegaws for pre-ordering TTT. I'm going to place my order at the place that offers me a free Ranger. In any case, I remain desperately disturbed by the corner animation. Just saying. IMHO.
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but $900 million worldwide kinda makes me think that an awful lot of people don't agree with you.
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Well, Grimloch, with all due respect, I don't think you are being entirely fair. I'm sorry you didn't like the film, but the fact that you didn't like doesn't mean that everybody should dislike it. Now, as for your points. I have enjoyed the Starwars "prequels" so far very much, I'm looking very much forward to episode III (which, BTW, will feature Peter Mayhew as Chewbacca, I have learned this morning), so I am definitely not a Lucas basher. Actually I have been rather critical of TTT myself in the talkbacks in the past, until recently after i re-read the book (yet again) and noticed that the changes concern topics that are really not that important. I doubt that my change of attitude is the result of cognitive dissonance, because as I said, I have criticised the film in the past and there are still things that both me greatly. For instance, I think that you are right in your dismissal of Sam's yukky speech ("so syrupy, it would be out of place even in a Disney film"). And there are other things. (But I think the design of the Ents was quite good - although I have never seen the Neverending Story!). __________ Your user ID, Grimloch - that's one of the Transformers, isn't it? The tyrannosaurus-like thing?
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Sorry for the misspelling of your name, Grimloch.
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This is from Letter #140 where Tolkien was discussing the titles of the, now, three volumes to publisher Rayner Unwin (17 August 1953):
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Gee, I
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...this little Coaxial TB will do rather nicely. Get those stumps tuned up as we're getting a new punk-ska band for the Club! ** Thing-Fish: I prefers the scintillating Jasmin Tapioca my self but t'other will do. Um, I remember the name Grimloch being assopciated with some heavy metal band. SOmething about underground dwarves or something of that nature. Heh, and he called us "nerds " once! Oh the hoot! Oh the hoot! ** This concludes todays "trilogy" of post.
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THERE ARE NO BASEMENTS IN FLORIDA!!!!!!!!! The water table is too high.
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Apr 24, 2003 1:10:52 PM CDT
Ralph: The movie didn't cover much of what happened in the book.
by masher
I've recently reread the passage where the recently crowned white wizard recounts his experience with the Balrog. The narrative itself leave out many details. I doubt that a lengthy exposition of the wizard's pursuit of the foul beast through the bowels of the misty mountains up through Moria's long starcase is needed. Tolkien himself didn't waste that much time on a detailed story. Gandalf seemed not to want to relive the ordeal.
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...this little Coaxial TB will do rather nicely. Get those stumps tuned up as we're getting a new punk-ska band for the Club! ** Thing-Fish: I prefers the scintillating Jasmin Tapioca my self but t'other will do. Um, I remember the name Grimloch being assopciated with some heavy metal band. SOmething about underground dwarves or something of that nature. Heh, and he called us "nerds " once! Oh the hoot! Oh the hoot! ** This concludes todays "trilogy" of post.
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Of course in the land of gators an' flamingos, I mean ABOVE ground basements (yer momma's or otherwise!). Y'know, the kind many people have in Gloucester Co. and Matthews Co. Hey, we gots bottom land here too buddy! No gatorssess though. Eh? Gators? Are they munchable? Are they crunchable?
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"as to my user-id, which someone sarcastically suggested was a Transformer ..." I wasn't being sarcastic, sorry you understood me. I was assuming that you were making some pop-culture reference, and since it has been years since I watched that cartoon (Transformers is as far as I know a cartoon), I just wanted to check whether my hunch was correct.
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Ingold! Right, I
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...OK, "black metal" then. The site does say "heavy metal" though.
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as well as world wide. Although I too had problems with TTT. I still liked it overall. Seems most other folk did as well. As to the SW prequels. How can you bag TTT for pandering to a syrupy Disney like audience (Sam's speech in particular) and then praise AOTC. The whole effort was bile inducing and if it didn't have the SW name attached to it, it would have been treated like the tripe it was. I DO hope the next one is better as I like SW, but do not hold out much hope. Oh and what's wrong with X Men? It's not too bad and I'm rather looking forward to X2. Cheers.
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Apr 25, 2003 6:04:45 AM CDT
an off-topic observation related to SW:TPM that is nevertheless
by thing-fish
Sorry that this is off-topic, but for the fact that the "Phantom Menace" was mentioned by some talkbackers. I just like to share this. Many people (no-one here in particular i believe) have complained about the fact that their favorite Sith lord was called "Ani" in that movie. One could almost hear the masses outcry: An evil Sith Lord can't be called "Ani"!! But yesterday I learned that Adolf Hitler was called "Adi" by his parents, and also his significant other (Eva Braun). Not so far removed from "Ani", it seems. I wonder whether Lucas was aware - he probably was. _____ Have to stay on topic, though. So, those Two Towers, which ones do you think Tokien referred to? Also, did anybody happen to notice that except for Legolas, there weren't any Elves at Helm's Deep in the book?
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Apr 25, 2003 6:43:03 AM CDT
Uh, Thing-Fish, does yo have a nakin in yo eye? Ask Conan for hi
by morgoth
Ah knows yo head is like a potatoe and you gots lips like a duck but iz yo eyes closed or sumpthin
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Apr 25, 2003 10:06:47 AM CDT
Good to see we're still seeing eye to eye, oh Sooty one,
by conan_the_humble
I, as most TE know am somewhat familiar with Tolkiens works. I'm not entirely hapy with some of the story changes in the movies, but accept that some changes have to be made. No film company or film maker for that matter would ever do a literal conversion from book to film and it is unreasonable to expect PJ et al to do so. For christsakes the 1st movie would have taken at least 6 hours to include every major incident from the book. Not that, that would bother me, mind you, but the average movie goer is NOT going to sit down this long for a movie. PJ with a few exceptions seems to have made about the best compromise possible and I think this is borne out by the tremendous success of both movies to date, both financially and critically. Well MorGy, when's the next Club Angband trivia competition gonna happen? I'm still 'smarting' after the last one and I'm looking to redress the situation somewhat... Cheers.
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Hola, all. Nice to see we've found a relatively calm harbor, cybernetic dinosaurs notwithstanding. Now, far be it from me to be one of those cinema snobs that equates box office success with mediocrity, but, well, I am one of those cinema snobs, so that's basically what I'm about to do. Again, I have to preface this by saying that a half dozen viewings in, I greatly enjoy TTT, but I cannot pretend that it is a better film than FOTR. And yet, it seems to be more successful. Why is that? Could be that greater numbers of Tolkien purists who didn't see FOTR in the theater caught it on video/DVD, were sucked in and forced to see "Part Two." Could also be that PJ's adaptation work, and the beefing up of action scenes (and the dumbing down that so many TTT detractors complain about) led the mass-moviegoing middlebrow audience to be more accepting. Could also be that the film's reliance more on the human aspect and less on "fantastical" elements brought in the mainstream crowd. Ironically, a good friend of mine who has never read anything but a sports page and worships at the feet of George Lucas (even though he did admit that TPM wasn't too great, although he loved AOTC) didn't like TTT as much as FOTR, precisely because of the nonstop action spectacle of Helm's Deep. Then again, perhaps he just found the military strategy confusing. He did think the actual "Clone Attack" in AOTC was "awesome!" Personally, after the crushing disappointment of Phantom Menace, I wasn't going to see AOTC, and only went because it was a holiday and I was wasted. And under those circumstances I enjoyed myself. But I can't pretend that it was in anyway a "good" film. I just hope the third one can redeem the series. And whatever anyone says about TTT, whether it be genuine criticism or trolley nitpicking, that's not even going to be an issue for Return of the King. The only way PJ can ruin this one is, I dunno, have Frodo's grandfather Grando show up at the Crack of Doom with his black sword and ignite himself, causing Gollum to fall into the volcano. Or something.
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Canadian newspaper, The Province, reports that Howard Shore has had an advance peek at a rough cut of the film and is already suggesting that director Peter Jackson has created a masterpiece. "I can tell you that having seen The Return of the King, it is a great film," says Shore. "It is amazing." ** This is from TORN.
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With a HAPPY B-DAY, ya ol' briquette-buttocks! Sheez, do I catch on quick. So, did yer morGettes spell the cake out "haPpy birThday"? ;-) All I can claim is, been busy busy busy. I mean, I was still looking for everyone at the McKellen TB! How long y'all been jawin here? A week? ....So. Instead of even trying to catch up, I'm going to discuss Howard Shore, and how I loathe him, for having watched a cut of ROTK. ("Hmm, purty good!" he sez!) Just kidding, I still love him. "No! We hates him! He's SEEEEN it!" Quiet you! And the upcoming scoring sessions this summer. I propose we come up with a plan to quietly replace members of the London Philharmonic Orchestra with ourselves. I call tympani. I can fake tympani. Alice, you don't mind if we all crash in your living room, eh? A bit of a commute perhaps, but cheaper than the Savoy.
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Man, are you gonna start that again, morG? Somehow getting a post in between the times I hit the Talkback button and the Post button? That covers exactly what I was going to bring up? Get out of my HEAD, man! All right, where's the camera, where'd ya hide it.... *** Another thing I've just noticed since last I was here. Phoebe Cates has REALLY let herself go. I mean, what the hell is Kline feeding her!?
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...I don't feel older, just sootier. Hey, I don't know what you mean by "old trick." After all, both your post are in proper order ya greet ninnyhammer! Erm, is Two Towers still showing anywhere up in yer area? I have a good reason for asking so don't go witholding any information.
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A post of MINE easily confuses? ;) To clarify a little, little thing: what I meant was, your post wasn't there when I started typing in this little box here, yet you managed to type it up and post it before I hit Post. Showing up directly above mine where none was before I clicked the Talkback button. And on (sorta) the same topic! I was just flashing on this one TB where you managed to do that very thing, and saying exactly what I was about to say but in about 1/4 the verbiage, sumthin like 3 times in a row over two days. Frustrating bugger! :) *** Now 'en, to your other question... HOLY CRUD. I'd about given up hope! Yer query spurred me to pull out the Post and LO, GLORY BE, SHUCKS and HOT DAMN, but right there listed under the Arlington Cinema N Drafthouse is, and I quote verbatim, "LORD OF THE RINGS 2" 'Bout damn TIME they picked it up! Well, my summer's taken care of, my friends! Beer and Towers, PJ and beer... mmmm....
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I hate to wax philosophical on a Friday evening, but, well... there's just something about seeing Harry's nipples that makes me feel sad... ;~) *** I should add in her defense, the lass who originally made that Smeagaureole comment was one of the pair that, with no prodding from me, and after great debate amongst themselves, deduced it specifically was Pippin's open collared white shirt in Fangorn that had, let's say, suddenly raised their awareness of him to an alternate plane. :) See y'all Monday, folx--it's Friday and the sun's out and I'm GOING HOME ON TIME! Good grief I can hardly believe it myself....
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Excellent report from the Eastern Front. We shall see what develops from this new information.
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Apr 26, 2003 5:43:48 AM CDT
Maybe you thought what I's tellin you is a lie? Riase yo misable
by thing-fish
MorGoth, I was joking ...
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Sorry T-F. Musta been the vapors from the parfume of Miss Ann-Deeevine whut drove me to the bafflim' concept of deja-vu posting and missed humorery. I shall retire to the Mudd Club, all the way down town.
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Apr 26, 2003 9:06:09 AM CDT
Oops, I was going to mention that it was ANZAC day today,
by conan_the_humble
But I've been out CELEBRATING it and have only just got back into a semi-recognisable human form... ANZAC day here is something akin to 'Independence day' (the DAY, not the movie...) I guess, although there are still a few "original" ANZAC's left... Anyhoo the traditional ANZAC day starts off with a dawn service and then the traditional
'diggers' breakfast, ie: Rum and Coffee. Basically the day goes down hill after that... Oh and trying to be on topic. Who cares about the Summer releases? I want some ROTK goodies dammit!!! Cheers. -
but TORN has some pics of Gondorian Armour from ROTK. It's nothing REALLY exciting, but hopefully it's the start of some ROTK goodies being released? Cheers.
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Trubba not all you balmy Tolkienoids! *** Saw TTT again last Friday, #9 - 10? I've lost track. Down to looking for stuff that I've previously failed to notice at this point: Anyone else notice that when Gandalf walks out of Fangorn to whistle for Shadowfax he is wearing an Elven cloak and brooch identical to the ones gifted to the rest of the fellowship? An allusion to the fact that, as anyone who's read the book knows, that he has been in Lorien and was arrayed and supplied by the Galadhrim. He continues to wear the cloak until he flings it aside at the dais of Theoden in Meduseld. *** Regarding the whole UN-Faramir debate: In her telepathic tet-a-tet with Elrond, Galadriel says something like: "All that need happen is for the young captain of Gondor to extend his hand and claim the ring for himself and all hope will be lost". The film Faramir NEVER does this, and visibly struggles with his decision of how to deal with the ring and its bearer. It is essential that the conflict between Faramir's own judgment and his father's will be firmly established prior to Denethor's introduction in ROTK and his ensuing interaction with his surviving son. Faramir IS therefore, portrayed as a fundamentally different character than Boromir in PJ's ADAPTATION. Had Boromir been in his younger brother's place HE would have claimed the ring for himself. The film Faramir never even entertains the idea, but rather intends only to send the ring to his father, as any dutiful son left to fill the somewhat too-big shoes of his older, better-loved brother would do, UNTIL the folly of such a course of action is made clear to him by Frodo's encounter with the Nazgul. He is able to put himself and/or Denethor in Frodo's shoes, so to speak. *** As far as nitpicks go: Why are Frodo and Sam unbound and armed in the Osgiliath scenes if they are still being treated as prisoners? Not considered a threat? A convenient device so that Frodo can pull Sting on Samwise? I think "The Tower of Cirith Ungol" may be left of, or else sharply truncated in PJ's ROTK because we've already gotten the "Don't you know your own Sam?" speech. Given the events left to cover in the third film, it makes sense to "speed up" Frodo's succumbing to the will of the ring a-la
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Trubba not all you balmy Tolkienoids! *** Saw TTT again last Friday, #9 - 10? I've lost track. Down to looking for stuff that I've previously failed to notice at this point: Anyone else notice that when Gandalf walks out of Fangorn to whistle for Shadowfax he is wearing an Elven cloak and brooch identical to the ones gifted to the rest of the fellowship? An allusion to the fact that, as anyone who's read the book knows, that he has been in Lorien and was arrayed and supplied by the Galadhrim. He continues to wear the cloak until he flings it aside at the dais of Theoden in Meduseld. *** Regarding the whole UN-Faramir debate: In her telepathic tet-a-tet with Elrond, Galadriel says something like: "All that need happen is for the young captain of Gondor to extend his hand and claim the ring for himself and all hope will be lost". The film Faramir NEVER does this, and visibly struggles with his decision of how to deal with the ring and its bearer. It is essential that the conflict between Faramir's own judgment and his father's will be firmly established prior to Denethor's introduction in ROTK and his ensuing interaction with his surviving son. Faramir IS therefore, portrayed as a fundamentally different character than Boromir in PJ's ADAPTATION. Had Boromir been in his younger brother's place HE would have claimed the ring for himself. The film Faramir never even entertains the idea, but rather intends only to send the ring to his father, as any dutiful son left to fill the somewhat too-big shoes of his older, better-loved brother would do, UNTIL the folly of such a course of action is made clear to him by Frodo's encounter with the Nazgul. He is able to put himself and/or Denethor in Frodo's shoes, so to speak. *** As far as nitpicks go: Why are Frodo and Sam unbound and armed in the Osgiliath scenes if they are still being treated as prisoners? Not considered a threat? A convenient device so that Frodo can pull Sting on Samwise? I think "The Tower of Cirith Ungol" may be left of, or else sharply truncated in PJ's ROTK because we've already gotten the "Don't you know your own Sam?" speech. Given the events left to cover in the third film, it makes sense to "speed up" Frodo's succumbing to the will of the ring a-la
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Apr 28, 2003 12:15:51 PM CDT
OK Conan, this isan't a real "Stump the Vala" type question...
by morgoth
...but in lieu of your post about the TORN Gondorian pics, who uttered this now famous line: "I hereby withdraw all of my support of these films!" ** Hey Moaters, I guess unFaramir felt Frodo and Sam weren't a threat any longer and if they were gunna travel with a critter like Gollum, they couldn't do diddly to him or his sturdy lads. So, he untied 'em and gave 'em back their "useless Blade of Westernesse and poncy Elf cutlery." Just a theory I'm working until the release of the TTT SEV.
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Apr 28, 2003 1:16:07 PM CDT
Sorry for the double/double post, It was due to "An AICN thing".
by skyway moaters
... in his book Harry boasts about "running this site on a shoestring". Well, given some of the abberant behavior inherent in the AICN.com domain, I'd say that he needs a better "shoe lacer"! Offered me services - PRO BONO, no less - no reply... *SIGH*
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... and here I was admiring you for choosing a reference to a rather obscure Frank Zappa "musical" as your handle. Guess I should know better by now...
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... those decrying "Frodo offering up the ring to the Nazgul" in PJ's TTT for "nullifying" JRRT's plot of sneaking the ring to Sammath Naur, defeat their own argument! When the Nazgul returns to his master on his wounded steed and reports that the ring is in Osgiliath, it will only confirm Sauron's belief that someone from Gondor will rise against him wielding The One. He will put all his strength against Gondor as soon as possible - before he is really finished preparing his war. "Oft the hasty stroke goes astray". As the naysayers have pointed out: He can't even conceive of someone wanting to destroy his precious. He also knows that "the new Ring Lord" can't learn to wield the power of The One all at once. He won't be reinforcing his borders to keep out spies: He "KNOWS" the Ring is in Gondor! Now I concede that PJ is beating his audience over the head with subtlety, but this scene, far from NEGATING JRRT's plot, actually reinforces the effects that coming events: Aragorn looking into the Orthanc Stone, The Captains of the West coming to assault his stronghold with an arm scarcely as large as the Vanguard of Gondor's arm in it's hay-day, will have on Sauron
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Apr 29, 2003 12:49:12 AM CDT
So, um, Thing-Fish: Is you down wit de galoot cologna or not?
by skyway moaters
... How's de nakkin hangin'?
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Apr 29, 2003 9:27:22 AM CDT
Round and round this post goes... where it stops, nobody knows..
by aliceinwonderlnd
Well, I suppose I can tolerate a little of ROTK being sidelined while "The Matrix" sequels get their hour in the sun. I really liked The Matrix. X2 sounds good too, though I didn't like the first one much. You guys are all welcome to come and sleep on my floor, though if you molest my hamster I'll kill you.
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Molesting a hamster in England has always been one of my hearts desires. Thanks, another lifelong dram shattered. Ashes and dust, that
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I heard he wasn't pleased that these movies were being made, Cheers.
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Apr 30, 2003 8:17:54 AM CDT
LIVE from the mountains of western North Carolina, it's The Week
by miami mofo
Hi, I'm Gregor the Magnificent and I'll be guest hosting this week's countdown, so let's get right to it. Drum roll, please -- Thirty-three weeks (efe) until LotR:RotK!!!!!!!!! ***P.S. 17/29 WRaoY [Weeks Remaining (until T2T Theatrical/SEV DVDs) as of Yesterday].
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Huh? Eat my McNugget!
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It opened here today. Pretty good flick. Again, the ending needed a bit of work, but overall very good. Funny in places too. It was interesting seeing the audience reaction for the trailers too. Matrix was very well received, The Hulk slightly less so and there was outright laughter when the trailer for Terminator 3 ran. I guess Arnie's acting days are pretty much over... Here's hoping King Conan gets made and is a huge hit. Arnie can go and play Govenor then. Still no ROTK pics or spoilers damnit. Cheers.
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I've always had a problem with wire-fu in Hong Kong movies, because it's such a completely unrealistic effect used just for "effects sake." But within the confines of the "Universe" created by the Watchowski Brothers, it makes sense. So wire-fu, bullet time, insane amounts of slow-mo gunplay and all the rest, for the first time, seemed to me to actually complement and enrich the story. Instead of being put into a movie as an alternative to an actual story. All I know is I went into the Matrix expecting some sorry-ass sci-fi/action/kung fu hybrid. But from the moment that Elrond stuck a mechanical cockroach in Keanu's stomach, my mind was blown. And I'm fully prepared to have my mind re-blown next Wednesday. That's right. Wednesday. Heh-heh-heh. *** Enough gloating, time to get back on topic...Uhm...So how 'bout that return of that King guy? That's sounds like it'll be cool. All kidding aside, I'd like to congratulate Thing-Fish and Skyway for perfectly ecapsulating my arguments for a more "lib'rul interpretatinizin'" of the whole Movie!Faramir/Osgiliath thing. I still feel however that PJ will find a way to cram in the Aragorn looking into the Palantir scene? Why? 'Cause PJ has shown a marked penchant for including as many Aragorn scenes as he possibly can, sometimes to detriment of the other characters (say it ain't so, Mortsleam!) *** In other only somewhat on-topic news, I tried to play the original Fellowship of the Ring game for the PS2 last night. Shudder. It came shortly before the movie to capitalize on the rights, without a single character looking anything like the movie versions. However, much of the dialog of certain scenes (Shadow of the Past fer innance) was more faithful to the book than the movie! Still, I think I'll stick to the Two Towers game. Even though it's mainly a hack'n'slash action game, the characters and settings look so much like the movie it's *almost* like getting your own very special Personal Extended Version. Or was it "Individual Extended Version?" Where has Elanor been lately, anyway?
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I go and gloat over gettin' ta see a sneak preview of Matrix: Reloaded and Conan slips in and steals my thunder by seein' X-2 frist! Wait...wait...I can still top him: I'm not payin' fer mine. Hah!
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Yesterday I came back from visiting my parents - which means, a cross-atlantic flight. For the "entertainment program", they played TTT, unedited, followed by a one-hour "Making off" documentary. Imagine that! Remarkable, a child sitting very close to me freaked out during the warg attack scene, and he wasn't even following the movie with the headphones.
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Mortsleam, I HAD free tickets...Cheers.
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The Vanyar. Hmm who else precious eh? Who else? It wasn't the chick who gave the infamously bad panning of FOTR in a widespread media outlet, and posted around here was it? Her name escapes me right now, but I suppose it COULD be her... Stump the Valar eh? Stump the Valar...(Strokes chin idly) Sorry I've got nothing at the moment. I'm gonna have to go read the books again. I'm finding my knowledge of TOLKIEN receeding since I've had the LOTR DVD's. Something about watching too much television? The beer couldn't help either I suppose... Cheers.
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I sure hope the Vanyar doesn
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May 02, 2003 6:13:01 AM CDT
Ticking them off the list in the name of efficiency (work's a bi
by aliceinwonderlnd
Points: the DC chick that posted the panning was "Malexandria" from the Eclipse website, and she wouldn't be a Tolkien scholar or a scholar of any name, shape or colour - she was functionally illiterate and had the character and actor names all wrong (I believe she thought the film was directed by somebody called Jensen, if memory serves), and also remarked that the director "just points the camera at the action and leaves it" - an interesting criticism of a film that was later to be noted for its looping helicopter shots and go on to win an Oscar for cinematography. The phrase "The Bow Guy" originates with her as she couldn't remember Legolas' name, despite, according to her own words, being given a press pack. Next Point: I saw X2 last night and really enjoyed it - despite not being a fan of the first movie. It was easy enough to follow regardless, and even though I'm not a follower of the comics I could keep track of the characters. There were clearly things in there intended just for fans, (like various talents of the mutant children) but I never felt it threw a casual viewer like me out of the story. It has a very soap opera type style, I thought, what with everbody being in love with everybody else and having relationships full of backstory that we just don't see. Very much a "Last week on 'Mutant High'..." type thing. The effects were cool, the writing and acting and storytelling were quite cool (though did not understand the relationship of Nightcrawler to Stryker and crew at all - which is not really a spoiler since it is talked about really early on - basically, you're to assume they met but you've no idea where or when or even how this was possible.) But still, it was fun. One thing *did* strike me - it's a movie that doesn't make the most of locations or verismultitude (possibly that's the fact I watch too much LOTR coming out) but all of the exterior shots are either mock-ups of the fronts of houses or snowy wildernesses (hey, wasn't it filmed in Vancouver...?) and everything indoors very obviously looks like a set. I don't mean it obviously looked like cardboard, but it was a film with nice character design but no sense of *place*, if that makes sense. Weird criticism, I know, but still. Also, the audience were the geekiest geeks in Geekville. I'm not kidding. It was like a Nerd Fair. I actually felt self-conscious sitting in amongst them, and it takes a LOT to make me feel self-conscious, believe me. The other entirely remarkable and wonderful thing that happened was that I saw the new Matrix trailer on the big screen. Oh. My. God. I've never seen anything like it. And it went on forever - normally with trailers, they sort of peak, and then there's a money shot, and then they end. Well, it would peak (within the first three seconds as Trinity goes out of the window) and then peak again... and then peak again.. and then... well, you get the picture. So you were constantly expecting it to end at any moment but just kept going, like a fantastic sci-fi freeway pile-up of geekly joy. And it looks so *beautiful*. And so damned *cool*. When it ended I realised I was leaning forward in my seat, and my eyes were dry from not blinking. What can I tell you? It made me moist with anticipation. Definitely the Summer Blockbuster of Choice within the Wonderland camp. And morGy, maybe I didn't get The Banning because the Powers That Be like me better than you? (Shakes tush and attached bunny tale in morGoth's direction in a cheeky and mocking manner) Nyah Nyah Nyah! Whatcha gonna do about it? And do you like the new feet? I got them through mail order. Nice, huh? They're slightly smaller than my old pair - I was never crazy about having big Hobbit feet. And apparently bunny feet are supposed to be lucky. Hey Conan, yo back at you from your shoutout at the Cumpston review. I must just be juvenile, because whilst I hated Harry's Blade 2 review with a white hot intensity that I normally reserve for Dr. Pepper and Bukkake porn, I thought that The Matrix: Kingdom of Asskicking was hilarious. It was really clever. I guess fanboys don't do irony at all well, to judge from the fulminating rage the review inspired.
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I had a Sudden Thought! What the hell happened to the Book we were sending around?
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WHHAAAATTTT?!!! (Orc janitors, Uruk gardeners, Elf waiters and cooks cower as the very foundations of Club Angband shudder and away!) Is this SAUCE I hear from the hired Entertainment Sector? Alice, my sweet delectable and now Trotter-like footed Bunny Hop, it were Father Geek what banned US. Us, as in elanor-lass, Miami and Frija
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"I know a pretty little place in Southern California, down San Diego way. There's a little cafe, where they play guitar all night and all day. You can hear 'em in the back room strummin', so hold tight baby don't ya know Daddy's coming ... ROSALITA, jump a little lighter. Senorita, come sit by my fire..." [B.S. 1974] ***Ahhh, that felt good, as I was feeling a little musical this morning. Anyway, after Moaters n' Shards were done with the book, the Moat-man e-mailed me, which was when I told him that DoT was next. So hopefully it's out there.
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May 02, 2003 9:00:12 AM CDT
Re Balrog farts: what is the only type of underwear that can st
by miami mofo
A: Mithril boxers! [Now you know why mithril is so valuable and why the Balrogs need to hoard the entire raw material supply.] :~)
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Sorry 'bout that, Black Enemy of the World, it's just that sometimes its funny to wind you up. 'Specially when the TB is slow. And I only implied that I wasn't banned because they liked me because I wanted to look like I was in with the in-crowd and popular and stuff. This is the point where Aquaman or Wonder Woman should fly down and say, "Alice learned a valuable lesson today..." (Does anybody remember that cartoon show?) As for Neil Cumpston, I don't know. It seemed to me to be an exercise in "I shall now review the movie The Matrix Reloaded in the persona of a 14-year-old retarded talkbacker". I'm pretty sure that Mr. Cumpston is well aware that the war wasn't with Egypt and what "anomaly" means (I notice that he had no trouble spelling it, which is more than I can do most days, though "Morpheus" rather affectedly gives him trouble). It also seemed to me to be a way of psyching people up for the movie whilst delivering no spoilers. You'll notice that all of the fight scenes described in his review (if "describe" is the right word) are all in the latest trailer. His comedy review ducks him out quite nicely from having to describe the plot or characters, and I think that this is a movie that could be really spoiled by spoilers (in the way that "The Sixth Sense" could be). It's meant to have a killer cliffhanger, apparently. After all, he did sign an NDA (if this was the Tuesday night super-secret screening for insiders they are talking about over at CHUD), so he probably has an agenda as far as WB is concerned ("Plant!"). He does sound like someone that plays with his own ca-ca, but I think that's the joke. I mean, when I saw "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back" I thought the Talkbackers where the funniest bit. I guess I have a high tolerance for adolescent dick-waving and potty mouths - which I probably got from dancing in your club, to be honest. That said, the Blade 2 review was evil and wrong, and this cannot be reiterated enough times. "Wet-chinned clamlapper" is a phrase that haunts me in my nightmares.
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So, MorGoth, and Skyway Moaters: Here is the interview with Frank Zappa in which he mentions Tolkien, which I have promised long ago, when I was still known as Frija. It's actually from the last interview FZ ever did, done by a guy called Ben Watson, under the pseudonym "Out To Lunch" (after Eric Dolphy's record) - who apparently doesn't like Tolkien. Ah well. They are talking about OTL's manuscript for a book about Zappa's work. Here goes: OTL:"...if there's a record you'd be interested in I could dive in there..." FZ:[without hesitation] "Thing-Fish." OTL: "Right." [flips through manuscript.] FZ:"I think that's a major work." OTL: "So do I ... though it took me some time to come round to that opinion." FZ:"Well, you know, it's like Tolkien." OTL:"Like Tolkien?" FZ:"Yeah, to invent a whole language - Thing-Fish's dialogue doesn't grow on trees. Nobody of any species really talks that way." OTL:"Yeah. Yeah." FZ:"It's not as good as Tolkien, but..." OTL:"Ah, come on - it's much better than Tolkien! Maybe I'm a bit too close to Tolkien, that literary tradition, it doesn't excite me." FZ:"He suffered a lot. Who's that bastard who used to attack him all the time? He went to that private club and there used to be this one guy who'd be drunk all the time and lay on the couch, just ridicule and shit?" OTL: "I don't know ..." and then they switch topic back to Thing-Fish. So, there you have it, my dear MorGoth, and I guess Skyyway might be interested too: evidence that Zappa liked Tolkien.
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I 'occasionally' (and I'm NOT being sarcastic here) visit other TB's for movies that interest me. AS I stated above The Matrix trailer got an excellent response from the X2 crowd. Pity about some of the other Summer movies coming out. The Hulk looks a little bit too cartoony for my liking. I know it's a comic book movie, but I don't much (except for Gollum) like CGI. I don't think the technology has improved enough yet... I'm worried about T3 as well. I wish all the best for Arnie, (part of my user is based on his best movie afterall) but I think T3 is gonna suck mightily. I also agree with Alice about Harry's Blade 2 review. Even I was disgusted and as MorGy has pointed out on previous Tb's, 'I have a bit of a taste for the gutter'... Anyway still no ROTK goodies (sulk, sulk) Cheers.
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In case you all didn't see the link over on Torn today, this is a very well-done "commentary" track for the purported Platinum Edition, employing two revisionist talking heads. Enjoy: http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2003/04/22fellowship.html ***So I'm next for the book? Nothing in my mailbox yet, but will stay alert. Who's after me? ***I've been monitoring here, but still plugging away at the novel.... The only thing that could REALLY distract me for long is some ROTK goodness. WHEN, O Lord, when???? To reach May with not a single teaser is really unconscionable.
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I read that a day or two ago - that was funny stuff! I love Noam and his evil hobbits.
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...And I-I-I-I fe-e-e-el fi-i-i-i-ine.... ;~D [explanations later! Well, for some of you. Hee hee heee....]
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Although it sure looks like it might happen. ***Or maybe you're talking 'bout the fact that you can no longer purchase the 'No Admittance Except On Party Business' bookends, which have been pulled from the market. They will however reappear this Christmas, presumably with a hardcover (I almost typed hardcore) LotR between the ends. So here's a movie tie-in with a direct benefit to Chris T. and the Tolkien estate. Notice that you haven't heard any "money" complaints lately from the Tolkien camp? With the huge increase in book sales due to the movie, they're making out quite nicely, thank you. ***Or maybe you're talking 'bout the fact that you're gonna see T2T with morGoth this weekend. I know he's been trying to contact you about it. Oh yeah, don't worry too much about all the soot! Just use a warm wash and a cold rinse while doing the laundry. And as far as your lungs go, I'm sure your health insurance will gladly pay for any chest x-rays you might need. Don't forget, the Surgeon General has stated that prolonged exposure to morGoth soot can be hazardous to your health!
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May 03, 2003 10:39:51 PM CDT
What Pallando's talkin' 'bout or The Four Horsemen of the Apocal
by elanor
Warning: Long post. Additional warning: For Tolkien geeks only. All others will probably be driven to retching. Heh, heh. Well, it
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Sounds like someone had fun when I wasn't there. And I HATE it when that happens! (Jumps up and down in furious tantrum, shrieking). Feel free to kidnap me, there's nothing like a good kidnapping to make a person feel loved. Awww... why can't I be rich so I can just sod off to DC whenever I want to and watch TTT and drink and eat Cajun food and natter like everybody else! It's NOT FAIR!!! I hate you all! Well, okay, maybe I don't. Incidentally, did Pallando do a Pointy Hat Trick?
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*Thanks* for the NON-invite, guys. Guess I know who my friends are. [Turns and gives the big four a COLD shoulder.] So Alice, just wanted to let you know that next winter, should you ever get tired of shivering on a cold, dark London evening while waiting on line to see LotR:RotK, that you at least, are invited to wait on a warm, balmy Miami line. It's so much more pleasant.
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Miami, I hope you will find it in your heart to forgive us. Or me, at least. You can still be mad at the others if you want (hee hee). I assure you we all felt like asses for not giving you the option. It came together at the last minute, so fast. That's still a bad excuse I know but aren't you in the mountains on vacation? I promise to find a way to make it up to you. Hmmm. What shall I do for my punishment? Go to see Titanic with Dufy? Make nice with Orson? Spend all day on a Star Wars talkback, defending LOTR? I'll let you decide.***OK Alice, when you least expect it, a black hood
may be tossed over your head and you'll be bundled off to...oh no, now that would be telling.
***Moaters says Quint went off to New Zealand to spy on ROTK. WHERE ARE HIS REPORTS???!!!???? -
May 04, 2003 9:18:36 PM CDT
Note 7. - from "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" reads as fol
by skyway moaters
"The Numenoreans in their own land possessed horses which they esteemed. But they did not use them in war; for all their wars were overseas. Also they [Numenoreans] were of great stature and strength, and their fully-equipped soldiers were accustomed to bear heavy armour and weapons. In their settlements on the shores of Middle-earth they acquired and bred horses, but used them little for riding, except in sport and pleasure. In war they were used only by couriers, and by bodies of light-armed archers (often not of Numenorean race). In the War of the Alliance such horses as they used had suffered great losses, and few were available in Osgiliath. [Author's note.]"
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What are you on about? Or has something changed and from now on I won't be able to understand you unless I'm lookin' at you?***I take it this means you got home alright!!!
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Yep Elanor I roadit home safe and soun. Im just perwel busy as a one leggit bloak in an arse kicking contest. Got to tern aroun and roudit back out O here termorrer. Millyings of party cools and many cools to get sortit before then. I bint ben trying to be rude or nuffing. I had a GRAND time with you and the chard-coal bloak and the bloak with the blue clout and pointy hat out there in that whatyercallit Penty Gone fents! That blue bloak can sure do some a maizing tricks with that blue bowler O his right enuff! I wunt have missed it nor for the whoal worl. A harty WOTHCHER to the other three horstmens! Im just glad we desided to leave Fister back at the Daysinn Form. He mighta spoilt everthing and every one knows there ben only four horstmens any way. I got to get programming and pirntout the loggisticks of this re lowcations thing so I have to stop riteing for now and fasleggit to the conexxions nexus to get myself ready to roud out for Forte Eusa. Namarie Mellyn, Trubba Not SM{;-0
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Yep Elanor I roadit home safe and soun. Im just perwel busy as a one leggit bloak in an arse kicking contest. Got to tern aroun and roudit back out O here termorrer. Millyings of party cools and many cools to get sortit before then. I bint ben trying to be rude or nuffing. I had a GRAND time with you and the chard-coal bloak and the bloak with the blue clout and pointy hat out there in that whatyercallit Penty Gone fents! That blue bloak can sure do some a maizing tricks with that blue bowler O his right enuff! I wunt have missed it nor for the whoal worl. A harty WOTHCHER to the other three horstmens! Im just glad we desided to leave Fister back at the Daysinn Form. He mighta spoilt everthing and every one knows there ben only four horstmens any way. I got to get programming and pirntout the loggisticks of this re lowcations thing so I have to stop riteing for now and fasleggit to the conexxions nexus to get myself ready to roud out for Forte Eusa. Namarie Mellyn, Trubba Not SM{;-0
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... the "Note 7. from "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" in "Unwished Tales" post is in order; although it SHOULD have been apparent if you've been reading the other posts on this TB concerning a certain "Self Appointed" Tolkien Expert, one Michael Martinez, and his withdrawal of his support for the films over PJ and Co's depiction of 'Gondorean' Armour. morG and Vanyar mentioned that they seemed to remember Tolkien's referencing "Plate Mail in TDOTGF, so I looked it up. Historically when some one speaks of "Mail" it is a reference to chain mail. When they speak of Heavy Armour" it refers to plate. Who knows what JRRT actually had in mind when he referred to "Heavy Armour" in Note 7. to TDOTGF, but I submit that it certainly at least possible that he was referring to plate mail, and that Michael Martinez is a misguided purist pedantic shithead...
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Me! Me! More about ME! [cue infectious laugh ;) ] Let me be first of the menfolx to concur and reciprocate all compliments back to elanor--as delightful as you'd imagine. Twas all our pleasure, m'lass! ** And if there's one great lesson I took from the whole night, it is this: "Moaters. May say. Whatever. Moaters. Wants." aka, "Man, am I glad he's on OUR side!" What with the studded leather vest, mohawk and bloody knuckles... ** The only Pointy Hat Trick I managed, Alice, was the old Blue standby of getting us all lost. Tacked on at least an extra, unnecessary 25 minutes getting from the cinema to Baggins', despite having lived in this area essentially all my life. Hey, "Ithryn Luin"'s a cliche for a reason. ** ...Now, Miami, be fair. We're not the ones who keep ditching mid-moot to go to some Springsteen concert. ;) Elanor's right, we were all smacking our collective foreheads, but it just came together so fast and sorta spur-of-the-moment. And to the rest of the best, ditto what elanor sez; we hoisted (many) a glass in yer honors. ** Though I gotta say, in a way my evening had peaked before it really began, when, at the very first watering hole we sat down in before the theater opened its doors, I got carded. Talk about getting the night off on the right foot! :) [Jeez, elanor, you didn't even tell 'em how young I look! Leaving out all the best parts... (cue infectious laughter) ;) ] ** Start saving yer ducats now, future travelers, 'cause ain't no doubt this'll all go down again someday! Cause, I heard, that, like, there's gonna be a sequel. Anyone hear anything about that?
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Crap. Sigh. I guess we were due, huh? Frack.
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..infernal contraption!= Spell Check! More like unwashed Moaters can't type! Someone PLEEEEZE unhose this TB... Have At You! Unhose thyself foul TB Glammouth!
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Ack! I shall be flamed en masse now! Well, mortsleam AND Miami now. I left mortsleam out of the Banning (shudder) list and now I must further suffer the wrath of the Mofo. I am tearing my hair out and lo!...there is none left. I hope that makes amends
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Yup, them Istari, always so perlite. Would it have killed you to acknowledge that I was there too? Sheesh, and after all that navigational assistance I rendered! See Miami, that
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Just read that bit about Zappa. Cool! It makes my esteem of Frank soar even higher. Just goes to show that genius appreciates genius. So, that means this Ben Watson is a pure eejit! Not only is da boy ugly, but he
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Next Lesson: Never EVER bruise the ego of a Fallen Vala! Yee-yee-yeesh, that's a bad idea. I swear I SWEAR the first post I typed, that was dumped lost and ethered, and then (obviously HORRIBLY!) retyped from (obviously HORRIBLE!) memory thanked you effusively and gushingly, morG ya ol so(ot)and so(ot)! Folx, gather 'round, this supposedly "Evil Incarnate" dude (1) got Skyway a new connexions job, (2) hatched, conceived, got off the ground the whole moot in the first place, (3) somehow "convinced" (you know, none of us actually SAW what you did to those poor people, and boy were they nice to us inside...) a closing restaurant to feed us, and (4) apparently just now UNHOSED this Talkback! Now, who among you can really say that this is such a Bad Guy after all. Ignorant slut? Occasionally. Evil? I beg to differ. ;) I'm finally on your side, morG, you musta just got a bum rap that First Age. I'll see if I can't put a good word in with varDa next time I'm valiNor way. ...Seriously, DID have a great time, sooty! Make your way up these parts again, and the nachos and first pitcher's on me. :) *** And to add to my faux pas pile, due to today's brief hose-a-ramarry I never saw (til just now!) Moaters' posts from this morning. So, that makes me the SECOND of the menfolx to be nice back at elanor. Good thing it weren't Fister whose thunder I was makin' ta steal...
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Thankee kindly, why y'all makin me blush. Now before this gets too mushy and everybody leaves to chew rocks instead, lemme just say to Moaters that I'm the ninny for not getting your Gladden Fields post. Thanks for the explunashun. Now git those bags packed!***Now what do you suppose that Quint is doing down there in NZ? I am surely about to die from lack of ROTK news. I think I'm going to be a spoiler-whore this time around. Just the THOUGHT of actually hearing
"begone foul dwimmerlaik" is enough to make me swoon. And then there's "Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!" And you just know PJ will give us flames running down the blade! And on a lighter note, who can't hear Billy Boyd's brogue as he says
"We are knights of the City and of the Mark, as I hope you observe." OK, I might as well ask while we wait for news, what lines from ROTK are you all aching to hear? -
Titanic with Dufy, it is! ***As for your question my dear, let me say that since I've been reading his posts these past several years, I have been anxiously awaiting LotR:RotK just to hear INGOLD say, "'Yea truly, we know you, Mithrandir,' said the leader of the men, 'and you know the pass-words of the Seven Gates and are free to go forward. But as for your little companion, I'm afraid he can go no further. I've got a message here from some gal who says she's this little one's Diamond, and she says, "that he had better get his ass back to Tookland iffen he knows what's good for him!" Oh, and then there's a P.S.: "Don't forget to bring presents!!!!!!!!!"'" ***Whew, what a scene! The drama!! The tension!!! Why if that scene is not included, I'm afraid I'm going to have to withdraw my support for these films. ;~)
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is when all looks hopeless in front of Mordor, 'then all the Captains of the West cried aloud, for their hearts were filled with a new hope in the midst of darkness. Out from the beleaguered hills knights of Gondor, Riders of Rohan, Dunedain of the North, close-serried companies, drove against their wavering foes, piercing the press with the thrust of bitter spears. But Gandalf lifted up his arms and called once more in a clear voice; "Stand, Men of the West! Stand and wait! This is the hour of doom." I can picture Ian Mckellen shining with white light against a Black skyline with arms outstretched over the vast forces of Mordor being driven back by the West. Seems pretty good... Cheers.
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Merry in minis Tirith; it's all going dark and my arm is so cold.
i can't wait for this film. Lucky for you guys to have seen it recently, everywhere near me has stopped showing it now. but i really want then to give us a bit more, the calendar pics were lovely, but a long time ago now, and they're making us wait so long for the DVDs! Anyway, scenes that are going to be unmissable in ROTK include the mouth of Sauron and Samath naur. But which scene will people be hiding from most (Shelob for me i think. the second potter film was nly bareable once the spider started talking - there is no way that a giant spider can remain scary once they start talking - but that's not going to happen with her ladyship, which is probably a good, if scary, thing.) -
'He has nine, but we have one, and he is mightier than they! Behold the White Rider!' and "Mithrandir! Mithrandir to Faramir! Go on White Rider!"
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but never will is Lobelia attacking Sharkey's ruffians with her umbrella. Ever since my dad read me the Lord of the Rings when I was little, I always wanted to see that scene in a movie. But with the SotS not in Return of the King... *sigh* Anyway, A close runner up is the Paths of the Dead. I want to see how PJ will handle them. What will the dead look like? Anything like the dead in the Marshes from Two Towers? Or will they be completely different? Drat, it's been far too long since I've read Return of the King and I can't come up with any specific dialogue. I just want the whole movie now! Must have patience, must have patience...
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Hell yeah Conan! That line from Gandalf had BETTER be there or I
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Reading your list of most-hoped- for lines has made me go stark raving mad for want of a movie!
Agggghhhhhhhh! It's barely spring and here I am wishing for December! Yes yes yes to all of your choices, especially "filthy Shriekers" and the heart-rending Frodo monologue "no sound of wind...and all else fades" OHHHH how I long to hear Elijah work his magic on that! Swoon, thunk. -
I have to agree with all those lines morGoth, but definitly Frodo's line. and unfortunatly i can imagine Shelob talking, but i don't think it will be in the movie. It'll be too much of a difference from the book. Although it was never specified that she couldn't talk (at least i don't remember it), she never bothered talking to her prey. Did Ungolant talk? but i have a general question, was it around this time last year that we at least had the first one sheet, with the pictures of the towers? I'm desperate to see what they'll give us this time, anything! And torn are bringing up the issue of Saruman again, so we might have him insulting the house of eorl. But it's not enough...
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Thirty-two weeks (efe) until I get to hear Ioreth say the most important line in the entire story, "The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known." in LotR:RotK!!!!!!!!! ***But what if she's not there? There has been no casting info re this all-important role. How will we ever know who the rightful king really is?
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Now it's not too exciting but better than the drought we've had so far. TORN has some pics of the Action figures of Sam and Frodo coming up for ROTK. Sam and Frodo are wearing Orc Armour and carrying Orcses weapons. Some confirmation perhaps of the Tower scenes and perhaps the march through the plains of Gorgoroth. Interesting no? Also Ian McKELLEN seems to be saying that the Spiky wheel of death is BACK. Now it's a bit vague, but stating that Saruman falls from a great height and dies in a rather sticky way seems to indicate something other than simply landing on the ground after falling from a great height doesn't it? My guess is he will fall out of Orthanc with Wormtongue's knife in his back and land on the Spiky wheel. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Cheers.
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Conan me boy, I'm still hoping that that spikey wheel will somehow end up being attached to Ted Sandyman's new mill. If not, I'm afraid I'm going to have to withdraw my support for these films.
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It must be there, or at least a good bit of it. It is heartrending.... And speaking of ROTK Frodo swoonage, I must say that Sam did an excellent job of picking out orc armor to fit, based on those little action figures. Would never have thought that Frodo at this stage in the narrative could look quite so dashing! However, I must point out a tiny detail that will dash some hopes. Frodo is clearly wearing his old shirt under the orc armor. So, either no naked hobbits, or his captors just tossed the shirt into a corner after stripping him, which is unlikely. Sigh. Well, somehow I just knew that Frodo pacing around dressed only in shadows wouldn't make the cut.... Though it is cool that under the orc armor he retains a bit of grungy white-shirtedness. Sam also looks quite dashing, though he had better sheath Sting or it will give them away completely. And of course, the other little action figures look utterly magnificent, too, especially the Rohirrim siblings. ***Do hope the rumor is right, and that ROTK is considered such a strong Oscar contender that other movies are scrambling not to compete (which would make the Christmas movie season bleak, if I cared two cents about seeing any other movie, anyway; my time will be fully occupied with ROTK). **Anyway, back to work. Had a bit of writer's block yesterday, but nothing serious; however, it means I must be doubly productive today, if possible. ***Still no packages in the mail.
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"I am glad you are here with me. Here at the end of all things, Sam." It had better be there. ***Just have to report that I have done a WHOLE PAGE in the last two hours, which makes up for yesterday, and hours and hours left to go.... Hope some day you all find some of my lines memorable.
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Re the spikey wheel, I wrote my post based on Conan's INCOMPLETE Ian McKellen quote, for in it, Sir Ian states that this will occur at *SPOILER* the beginning of the film. ***And Gollum gets the STAR treatment!!!!!!!! Yup, apparently the T2T-SDSEV (Super Duper SEV) will contain a statue of Gollum and a "fifth disc" re Gollum's evolution. Guess that means no new book/DVDends (unless Smeagol's the other, but the report didn't seem to indicate that). Oh well, I don't really need another set. ***And now I'm gonna go sulk regarding NO Ted Sandyman mill. PMO!!!!!!!!!
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I hope that line is in there too Miami (You still got a case of the ass?) but that Aragorn figure with his spiffy outfit ALSO show
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Ingold! Heh, I was taller in that "Flaming Udders" pic but that was before my feet were cut out from under me (And Alice thinks SHE has a lock on Trotter hoppers!). Plus old age and gravity have taken their toll. GLad you brought up Merry's big scene. I was scared to since it tends to drive certain Azure Istari into paroxism's of "Ignorant Slut" and "Magic DIngus" fittery. I dropped some pretty good hints though. Heh, maybe PJ has expanded Ingold's role and he'll be personally knocking the troll's from Grond and beating a slew of mumak to death with it. "Hola Gandalf! Did I not say we'd meet again though the host of Morgul would be between us?" Gandalf sniffed and replied, "Look, just start burying those things since they smell worse than a Nazgul's breath after smoking troll-hash!" Oh, I also didn't want to mention me an' Moaters encounter with Ninja Galadriel since I know you'd REALLY be pissed. Swoon doesn't even begin to describe... Besides, don't you live all the way in Michigan or sumpthin'? Guess you an' Rune could've car pooled mebbe.
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Where do I begin? I had slipped across the street today to catch X2, and near the end of almost 20 minutes of previews for Films I Never Want To See, I was jolted to sudden wild attention by the New Line logo, familiar gold letters on the screen, and Howard Shore's music... leading to a trailer for "Dumb and Dumberer." I'll tell you, I wanted to heave a brick through the screen. It will backfire on them, I swear! Yes, they got my attention. But I resented so much that brief flare of joy, followed by the sucker-punch of this obscene linkage of greatness and banality, that I will take some time to recover. And I will never forgive.
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Are you sure that Sam is carrying *Sting*? Isn't that a rather significant deviation from canon at this point? I mean, isn't Sting along with Frodo's mithril shirt? Or am I panicking over nothing, and that's Sam's blade that they all bicker over at the Black Gate with Gandalf and the Mouth of Sauron and what have you? Or am I hopelessly confused. Oh, and apparently I'm Lady of Misrule, so you all have to obey me. This was ironed out last night at a medieval castle, so there.
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Sam takes sting from Frodo at the pass, and the orcs get the westerness blade sam carried. still causes some confusion among the captains of the west, cos they'd have to wonder which hobbit have the orcs got? They have Frodo's shirt, sam's sword and one elven cloak that could belong to either, but they wouldn't barter if they had the ring.
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I'm sorry, I forgot your title already, didn't trust hitting the Back button to get it again--lucky enough I got to this screen, not pressing my luck. (So, does this mean, um, punishment? For my disobedience? Cause I'm... naughty? O Lady of Something?) ...Ahem. Anyway, ayuh, Sam keeps Sting and leaves his old BLADE OF WESTERNESSE (there ya go, morG) with Frodo. So the three things the Mouth pulls out for show is a Dwarf mail, an Elf cloak, and a, well, Man blade (oh, stop sniggering). "A conspiracy against the Dark Lord! Interracial conspiracy! Follow the money! Back, and to the left! Back, and to the left!" The Mouth of Sauron: The Oliver Stone of Mordor..? *** Most Wanted ROTK lines, eh... Well, I got em picked out, but don't have my book handy (yeah, THAT excuse again, Mofo!) and I wanna quote em right. So, if lunch allows a hop to the bookstore, I'll get backatcha today.
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...And anyone else in the theater, I suspect. All you'll need is Astin, Woods and Ian bloody Holm saying these lines. And who knows, with the shot we've seen of Frodo over the Red Book mayhap we will have some version, even in voiceover, which would be nearly as good. *** "For some time they sat in silence; and then Sam looking round at the room and the shadows flickering on the walls, said softly: 'I don't think, Mr. Frodo, that he's done much writing while we've been away. He won't ever write our story now.' At that Bilbo opened an eye, almost as if he had heard. Then he roused himself. 'You see, I am getting so sleepy,' he said. 'And when I have time to write, I only really like writing poetry. I wonder, Frodo my dear fellow, if you would very much mind tidying things up a bit before you go? Collect all my notes and papers, and my diary too, and take them with you, if you will. You see, I haven't much time for the selection and the arrangement and all that. Get Sam to help, and when you've knocked things into shape, come back, and I'll run over it. I won't be too critical.' 'Of course I'll do it!' said Frodo. 'And of course I'll come back soon: it won't be dangerous any more. There is a real king now and he will soon put the roads in order.' 'Thank you, my dear fellow!' said Bilbo. 'That really is a very great relief to my mind.' And with that he fell fast asleep again." *** wilko (what the hey ever happened to HIM?) highlighted that passage for me back in me HOME writing days, and I agree with him--now it always makes me think of J.R.R. leaving things to Christopher. Oh, heck *thud* there goes that lump in the ol' esophagus...
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It was so brilliant of Tolkien to work it out so that the Mouth of Sauron has very clear evidence of BOTH Frodo and Sam and yet... it doesn't add up to two hobbits. I've always assumed Gandalf was quick to grasp this (never mind that if the Enemy had the Ring, they wouldn't be talking), though probably the others were too shocked and stunned. It's one of those places where it's hard to recall the horror of the first reading, when WE don't know - like when we really thought, with Sam, that Frodo was dead. And that is one of the problems with one too many characters having a return-from-apparent-death moment in the film; Tolkien knew better than Jackson how to use this sparingly. Frodo's two near-death moments seem almost set-ups for his apparent "real" death with Shelob - it actually makes it more convincing, as we know Sam wouldn't give up on him unless there was no hope. And we also know the quest is more important than any individual, after we have seen the fellowship broken (also a shock, because most of us have been conditioned from childhood to think that once the band of heroes is formed, it will stay intact to a triumphant finale), so it is entirely possible (at that point) that the balance of the story will be about Sam. I wonder if there will be anyone left in the audience to experience Frodo's death as real?
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...that knowing that Frodo is not truly dead takes nothing from the impact of the scene, as written, nor anything from the April calendar picture, which, if anything, is rendered more heart-stopping and poignant by knowing that Sam doesn't know, and because it is so very, very convincing, down to the pallor around Frodo's lips. His body in Sam's arms has a finality about it that the artist (photographer plus touch-ups?) has absolutely captured. So that you get a really visceral sense of what Sam is feeling - the loneliness and despair and just wanting to die with him. For a line, how about, "Rest you quiet till I come; and may no foul creature come anigh you!" Well, that did it. I'm crying....
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He completely forgot to spill baby oil all over his heaving pectorals--WHAT pectorals, I might add. (Undershirt! Bah!) And where's the dark cape thing? Certainly not tossed behind him dashingly. No well-traveled boots? Is that stare supposed to be "brooding"? Feh. Wanna-be.
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I've been sitting here, scratching my head for quite awhile now, but I still can't figure out what morGoth meant by that question. Enlighten me, oh sooty one. ***Time to play the reverse of elanor's game, i.e., what non-Tolkien line would you absolutely, positively HATE to hear in LotR:RotK? For me, it would be Gimli saying, during the Passing of the Grey Company, "I see dead people." :~( Also, I really, really, really hope that Frodo and Sam's discussion about the amount of midichlorians in Gollum's blood during their passage of Gorgoroth finds a safe haven on the cutting room floor.
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Gandalf and Denethor discussing the amount of midichlorians in Frodo's blood. Either way, ixnay that scene, eh? ***Speaking of Denethor, let me get back to elanor's game and add: "Are you angry with me Gandalf? ... I did the best I could." [Oh to be sittin' next to our very own Pippin's Diamond when that line is spoken!]
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May 08, 2003 9:29:52 PM CDT
Anyone who has still got a case of the ass, well, they must tulp
by elanor
Miami I couldn't figger that one either, so I guess we'll just hafta wait till he tells us. I will think about the lines I would HATE to hear and get back to you but Pallando's sweet recollection of the Bilbo/Frodo i.e. JRR/Christopher moment reminded me of another favorite moment very near that one, which I hope to hear. Bilbo: "...Which
reminds me; what's became of my Ring, Frodo, that you took away?" Frodo: "I have lost it, Bilbo, dear. Got rid of it, you know?"***Aaahhhhhh! That just kills me.***And one more: Gandalf to Pippin "At sunrise I shall take you to the Lord Denethor again. No, when the summons comes, not at sunrise. The Darkness has begun. There will be no dawn".***And Theoden to Merry, before he dies "A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!" -
[First--I'm still reeling over elanor's subject line. Oh my god that killed me] Actually, this first one was already dropped from FOTR, Gandalf interrogating Gollum: *** Gandalf: "What is it? And don't give me that crap about it being your birthday present, you don't have a birthday." [Gollum is trembling] Gollum: "We'll tell you the truth..." Gandalf [smiling]: "That's good. Now, what is it." Gollum: "It's our... our precious..." [Gandalf's barely-suppressed anger explodes, he hits Gollum full in the face. Gollum just stares back, tearing up from the blow but not moving even to defend himself] Gandalf: "I said the truth!" Gollum: "--it's our birthday present--" [Gandalf slaps him again] "--it's our precious--" [Gandalf slaps him again] "--our present." [He hits him again] "Our precious, our present--" [He belts him finally, knocking Gollum into a cheap Chinese vase which shatters and he collapses onto the sofa, sobbing] Gandalf: "I said I want the truth." Gollum: [almost screaming] "It's our present and our precious!" [Gandalf doesn't answer, just stares in pity and revulsion] "...Deagol and I, understand, or is it too tough for you?" *** Then of course, with the Scouring cut back into ROTK: *** [Saruman and Grima try to flee in their roadster convertible, but one of the uprising Shirefolk opens fire] Frodo: "NO! Don't shoot! Let them go!" [In the distance the car's horn suddenly blares as the vehicle drifts to a stop. Grima can be heard shrieking] Frodo: "No! Who shot that arrow? I'll kill him! I'll kill the son of a bitch!" Old Man Cotton: [to Sam]: "You wanna do your master the biggest favor of his life? Take him home. Just get him the hell out of here!" [Sam, Merry and Pippin all grapple with the protesting Frodo, literally dragging him away from the scene, Frodo trying to shake free.] Sam: "Forget it Mister Frodo -- it's Hobbiton." THE END
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Whew! Enquiring minds wanted to know that! That
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WHAT? Ya
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I'd never leave the house. [ba-dump TISH!]
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Good grief morGy, I was never mad at you guys -- just thought I'd take y'all for a ride on the Guilt Trip train. I was actually quite glad to read that you finally got to meet PB & e, and Moaters as well. [Btw, MOATERS: Where the hell is the book? Several weeks ago you asked who gets it after you and Shards, and I answered DOT. She's still waiting! Hope it didn't get lost in your move. More importantly, best of luck with your move to Virginia!!!] Sounds like everyone had a fine time, just like I'm sure y'all will have when you go see Titanic with Dufy. [e, that was truly the funniest punishment ever suggested to me.] And now I'll let you get off the Guilt Train by saying that even if you had been considerate enough to invite me (the train hasn't come to a full stop yet), I wouldn't have been able to go at the last minute because it would have been a major hassle to drive 80 miles of mountain roads to Asheville (1-3/4 to 2 hrs), fly to Charlotte and then connect to D.C. So even though it's further away, it would've been alot simpler (and cheaper!) and taken much less time to travel from Miami to D.C. than from the mountains of N.C. to D.C. Too bad that Bilbo Baggins was closed by the time you arrived. Oh, and elanor, to answer your condesendingly rhetorical question, YES, there are places outside N.Y.C. that stay open late. Ever been here?
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There are a few ROTK spoilers over on TORN, such as a photo (rather grainy, unfortunately) of Frodo inside Shelob's Lair. And apparently, Frodo attacking Sam after the Nazgul incident is greatly expanded on in the SEV. Unfortunately, many of the recently-quoted lines we would like to see in ROTK depend on Frodo being Frodo, which they keep telling us he won't be... (replaced, I presume, by a crazed Ring-as-heroin-addicted Frodo, who will be nastier and nastier to Sam; at any rate, how will the Frodo they describe ever be gentle and articulate enough to describe to Sam his loss of all memories?). I AM looking forward to a less-grainy photo of the cave. And is that shiny grey object in the foreground Gollum's pate?
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When you didn't answer my e-mail, I jist wasn't sure. Having never met you and this form of communication not being the most precise in the world, howuz I to know? Besides, it gave me a chance to explain "case of the ass" AND "bimlits" all in one post!
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Cause you tricksy East coast hobbitses have stolen away our Moaters! Ah, well, the job market sucks in Austin anyway. At least we (my daughter - who will be known henceforth as FrodoFreak - and I) got to see TTT twice with the Sky man and dine with him at a couple of South Austin's finest dives. Ah yes, bucolic South Austin, where our motto is "We're all here because we're not all there...". HOWEVER, Moaters apparently skipped town without handing the book over to me. So he's still "it".***A "must see" scene for me in ROTK - Merry and Pippin outside the gates of Isengard, one asleep and one smoking, next to the remains of a substantial repast. Can't remember the exact dialog, but it's genius and I want it!
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..that's right! Moaters has been lured to Club Angband where all good (or bad, depending on yer 'spective) minions Of morGoth end up! Um, bestest I can understand is that Moaters does indeedy still have the book but he's gunna send it back to you since you didn't get finished with it. Oh, and "Hi!" back atcha {[:^)
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... knew I was forgetting sumfing in the rush to road out from Austin! I was SUPPOSED to pass Harry's book off to Shards of Narsil before I split town but gimme a break! The whole consarned relocation happened so bleeding fast: my head is STILL spinning! - I forgotted. *** I know just where it is though, and will make arrangements for Mrs. Moaters to deliver it it into the hands of 'she of the broken heirloom cutlery' as soon as may be! *** Now keep them TATOW tendencies in check there Mr. Mofo, I dinna do it a-purpose! Trubba Not, I'll get 'er done...
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[More cutting room fodder] Frodo: "...But I do not now choose to do what I came here to do. I am not the Ring's. The Ring is MINE! I'M THE KING OF THE WORLD!" *** Later, after the ship has left the Grey Havens... It's the dead of night, everyone is asleep below--except for Frodo, who steals above decks barefoot in his white nightie, hair let down and tumbling in the wind like in his youth... He walks to the far stern, and looking into the waters he has a vision... of Smeagol, smiling... Frodo opens his hand... He's had the Ring all along! With a tear and a wink, he throws it into the sea...! Galadriel, in the crow's nest, starts bellowing "My HEEEEEEAAAAAART will go o-o-o-o-o-on....."
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May 09, 2003 7:23:33 PM CDT
Okay, I suppose that was a little confusing. Heh heh! Uh, heh.
by pallando blue
Looks like I just outed myself! Sigh. Couldn't have lasted forever. Yep, confessions time, I actually DO have an alternate handle here on AICN. Trav pops up everywhere else, but learned the hard way not to engage the hoi polloi directly. But he gets to be the asshole on the occasions I'd rather not deal with the consequences. A front page fella only, of a contentious sort. When Pallando just doesn't have a sense of humor at the moment. Or when he does, but it's mean. And OOPS! Looks like I rapid-typed the wrong handle into the Tailend! Say hi, Trav.
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I'm sure you saw THAT comin. :)
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Basically, this here's the Specialist Geek -- all things Tolkien, PJ, the like. Specifically, comfortably. The only ongoing conversation I feel like keeping online, and I love it. McGee's the generalist Film Geek, with a penchant for one-liners and occasional strong opinions, but rarely (anymore) do I return to the same TB twice. The different hotmails just made it simpler to separate the fan mail. Ha ha! Ha. Um. (Trav gets more "Fuck you!"s, but I swear never trolls for em.) So! Look for the unrepentant bastard being a smartass on the front pages once in a while. ....Did I weird any o' you folx out? Ah well. The usual fallout when skeletons fall out of the coat closet. ;) Actually, I'm just cracking up thinking how weird that musta been, reading a very Tailender (and, if I may say so, Pallandish) post by some freaking stranger. Hee hee! Eh, I shoulda left you confused. :) At least I caught myself before ditching for the whole weekend!
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Except that Frodo should have his shirt open and a little and some baby oil spread over his little heaving pecs. I just spit a cuppa tea all over my monitor after reading the Gandalf Gollum interrogation. Or was that Pallando
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Great weeping Baggins madam! We haven
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**Spoiler Warning** Aragorn Vs Sauron in a one on one smackdown eh? Elijah speaking of the Grey Havens, Saruman landing on a spiky wheel and Legolas shooting Grima through the top of his skull and all... All seems fitting seeing what we've had so far. I hope as mentioned by others that Gorthaur doesn't overshadow the Mouth of Sauron too much... Cheers.
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I thought I'd go crazy from lack of ROTK info. No trailer, no spoilers, just endless comments on TTT. Finally, something new! Yay! :) This battle between Aragorn and Sauron sounds interesting. My best guess is it's PJ's way of distracting Sauron so Frodo and Sam can climb Mt. Doom without Sauron noticing. Aragorn attacks Sauron, distracting him, but before Sauron can destroy Aragorn, Gollum chomps Frodo's finger and falls. And here's the line I NEVER want to hear in ROTK. As Sam follows Frodo and Gollum into Shelob's lair: "What a wonderful smell you've discovered, master."
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**Spoilers** TORN has a picture of Grima looking seriously pissed on the floor of Isengard, holding a knife in his hand. There is speculation that this is a moment immediately prior to Saruman copping the Colombian Neck tie... Cheers.
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May 12, 2003 9:48:35 AM CDT
**HUGE SPOILERS!!!** ...Uh oh, people are NOT going to like thi
by pallando blue
GOLLUM: "...And the names are Samwise Gamgee and Frodo Baggins." [Both Frodo and the Ring look at Gollum in astonishment] FRODO: "But why my name, Smeagol?" GOLLUM: "Because you're getting on that eagle." FRODO: [confused] "I don't understand. What about you?" GOLLUM: "I'm staying here with Him 'til the eagle gets safely away." [Gollum's intention suddenly dawns on Frodo] FRODO: "No, Smeagol, no. What has happened to you? Last night we said--" GOLLUM: "--Last night we said a great many things. You said I was to do the thinking for both of us. Well, I've done a lot of it since then and it all adds up to one thing. You're getting on that eagle with Sam where you belong." FRODO: [protesting] "But Smeagol, no, I, I--" GOLLUM: "--You've got to listen to me. Do you have any idea what you'd have to look forward to if you stayed here? Nine chances out of ten we'd both wind up in a concentration camp. Isn't that true, precious?" RING: "I'm afraid Major Gorbag would insist." FRODO: "You're saying this only to make me go." GOLLUM: "I'm saying it because it's true. Inside of us we both know you belong with Sam. You're part of his work, the thing that keeps him going. If that eagle leaves the ground and you're not with him, you'll regret it." FRODO: "No." GOLLUM: "Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon, and for the rest of your life." FRODO: "But what about us?" GOLLUM: "We'll always have rabbits. We didn't have, we'd lost it, until you came to Mordor. We got it back last night." FRODO: "And I said I'd never leave you." GOLLUM: "And you never will. But I've got a job to do, too. Where I'm going you can't follow. What I've got to do you can't be any part of. Frodo, I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little hobbitses don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you'll understand that. Now, now..." [Frodo's eyes well up with tears. Gollum puts his hand to Frodo's chin and raises his face to meet his own.] GOLLUM: "Here's looking at you, precious." ****** [Then later, of course...] GOLLUM: "I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendshi-i-i-i-i-..." >bloop<
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Actually morG, the "interrogation" post was my Middle-earth homage to "Chinatown" (Did anyone get that? Or too oblique?) ...I'd just seen it the night before, so it was fresh in my haid--heh, shouldna assumed it'd a been fresh in anyone else's! Yeesh, wihtout a reference to go by, I guess it just comes off as sick, huh? :) Well, that's the "naughty istari" fer ya. ;) *** This joint just die this weekend? Everyone dodging spoilers, or what? Did I miss something on the front page? 'Cause I'm currently dodging X-2 and Matrix spoilers, myself.
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Were it not for my unfortunate banning, I would have slowly introduced Mortsleam, Master Assassin into the TB's to handle the "wetwork" while good ol' Walrus sat back and enjoyed the Tailends. Alas, it weren't meant ta be. But as I currently stride betwixt the front page and tailend with equal measures of fearlessness, conviction and utter assholitude, rest assured that anytime Trav pops up in a Front Page TB I will slap a "Trav, you ignorant slut" on him. You have been warned. *** Incidentally, I'm not gonna go on all ass-shouldered (you southerners and your idioms!) about not being invited to the Moot of the Apocalypse, as Detroit is rather too far away for a quick weekend TTT screening. But I should mention that by not inviting me, you guys missed a chance to witness my wonderful interpretation of the final scene of Casablanca as performed by Christopher Walken and Steve Buscemi. 'Tis a wonder to behold. I'm currently working on a LOTR version. And sorry, impressions being what they are, it just doesn't translate to the written word. You truly have to hear it to believe it. *** As far as ROTK spoilers go, I'm just hoping this whole Sauron vs. Aragorn Middle Earth Smackdown thing is just a rumor. A falsehood. A divisive jest engineered by the forces of evil to keep us hapless Tailenders in constant despair. If only Harry would post it as a story on the Front Page. Then we'd know it's false! Oh, thank the Nowhere Man I have X-2 an' Finding Nemo an' Matrix: Reloaded an' the Hulk an' all sortsa mindless summer goodness to distract me from the terrible wait. Walrus J. Mortsleam, out.
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May 12, 2003 1:24:29 PM CDT
Ooo, ooo, I got it Pallando! Also, voo-doo mortsleam, slight ret
by morgoth
Oh yeah, the Chinatown bit was a scream! Didn
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VERSCHLUNGERFLAGGIN LOST IN THE ETHER POST ANYWAY!! Awright Ingold, ain
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What the waffling Vala is unable to articulate, is that brilliant scene is from TRUE ROMANCE, thank you, thank you very much. Good 'un, Ingold! *** Nope, was perfectly sober on that flub, morG, just rushing out the door in a hurry. Got home and, d'oh! Ah well, it's not like there's a John D. MacDonald Tailend, is there? (Is there...?) I get what you mean about the wetwork (heh heh), mort, but even as Trav I don't really (rarely) address TBers anymore. And then only if someone genuinely cracked me up. Just log my comment on the article topic and move on. I just don't need the grief! Yet somehow the grief will follow anyway. (Beware hardcore fans of "The Boondock Saints"--many are unstable). Probably some of first McGee posts were a bit of the assholish semi-troll, just cause I felt like donning the cliche AICN brawler attitude--sometimes yer just in the mood for a virtual barfight cause someone looked at ya funny, you know? But that gets out of the system pretty quick, and I don't do it n'more. Actually, it's been a while since he earned a flaming. Now it's usually just the rare MacDonald fan wondering if I've heard anything about a McGee movie (I wish!). ...The other reason for the second nom, was to see what sort of spam an AICN-only e-mail address generates. And lemme tell you, AICN generates a LOT of spam, and a lot of potential virus mails. Not AICN itself, but its your-address-is-right-there format makes it easy for folx to build a free mailer database, is my uneducated guess. Anyway, McGee'll probably be dormant until I get both X-2 and Matrix under my belt. Must stay away from front page stories! *** Yep, morG, I agree, we'll get Smeagol's backstory on the stairs somewhere, I'm thinking during his last crisis of conscience. Lets me hold out hope for the scene of, as Tolkien put it, but for one harsh word from Sam... "Hey! What're you been up to, sneakin about like that!" (snaps Gollum out of his memory, hovering over Frodo) "Sneakin? SNEAKIN'!? Oh, hobbitses are always so nice, yes, so polite..." and "...Nothing for Smeagol. He's a SNEAK." I think that whole scene would fit, almost verbatim, into the movies as PJ et al. have written em. Touching, funny, tragic, all in one. Ah, if there's but time.
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[Okay, I'll cop to my cheating modus operandi: go to www.joblomovies.com, bunches of scripts there! I crib, and adapt. Like my memory's really that good!] *** Denethor's wearing a coat over his pajamas, drenched to the skin, his mop of gray hair plastered in streaks to his brow, as he addresses his palantir. "We all know things are bad. Worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything's going crazy. So we don't go out any more. We sit in the Tower, and slowly the world we live in gets smaller, and all we ask is please, at least leave us alone in our own throne rooms. Let me have my toaster and my palantir and my hair-dryer and my steel-belted radials, and I won't say anything, just leave us alone. Well, I'm not going to leave you alone. I want you to get mad!" [We see the rapt attention of Saruman and Grima, glued to their palantir.] "I don't want you to riot. I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to write your Valar. Because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the defense budget and the Orcs and crime in the street. All I know is first you got to get mad. You've got to say: 'I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this any more. I'm a human being, goddammit. My life has value.' So I want you to get up now. I want you to get out of your thrones and go to the window. Right now. I want you to go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell. I want you to yell: 'I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this any more!'" Saruman throws open the doors of the throne room, goes out to the balcony and yells, "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!" Ten thousand Uruk-hai in military formation roar back, "I'M MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!" A single tear rolls down Grima's face...
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31 more!!!!!!!!! (sorry, I'm in a hurry)
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Outed as a sock puppeteer! Still, you are almost but not quite forgiven, for giving love to "Network". Is the TB really this quiet or is it hosed? I'm too busy to check. Also, question: what the fuck does "tulpas" mean? I've wondered for years. Over and out. For now. But I'm watching you...
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Alice, NOONE knows what tulpas means, and I'm even including an old tailender who went by the handle of morpheus, who wrote that phrase in the first place. I don't know if you were here during his heyday, but ole morph definitely seemed to occupy a different plane of existence than the rest of us. He always posted in the wee hours of the morning and seemed to be either drunk or stoned, because he sure had a hard time navigating his way around a keyboard. But he was also, at least to me, very intelligent. He just had trouble communicating. Anyway, one night, around a year and a half to two years ago, morph was writing about the Woses, and he closed his post with, "They must tulpas then." Well the next morning when I read that, it struck my funny bone so hard that the OJ I was drinking at the time went flying out my nose, hitting the computer screen, eventually dribbling down between the cracks of the keyboard. elanor also picked up on how absurd and nonsequitur that final line was, and so a legend was born. So to me, whenever I now want to say that sometimes you have to bow down to the absurdity of it all, "They must tulpas then." makes a handy phrase.
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I remember him! He was a nutter. Wasn't he the guy that believed that essentially this was Middle Earth, and the Hobbits were actually African pygmies and... oh God, I don't remember the rest but still... he was a funny guy. He hated FOTR didn't he, and stopped coming? Well, it was kind of inevitable since his views on LOTR and the known world's were subject to extreme variance, if I recall.
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May 15, 2003 4:36:01 PM CDT
Blue Wiz agreed with and tulpas re-examined near Rushock Bog!
by morgoth
Awp! Now looky here Miami, by implication, yer sayin
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Nutter indeed but sometimes interesting and DEFINETLY amusing. Yes, he stopped posting after Fellowship came out. Didn
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morGy, BG/PJ is obviously so busy with T2T DVD's, RotK reshoots and DVD work for same AND preproduction for King Kong, that he no longer has time for us common folk. Oh yeah, I had a feeling that you would bring up that case of red ass. It's not the same, because you know people who know what a case of the red ass means, even if elanor and I didn't. On the other hand, NOONE knows what 'tulpas' really means, although I do like the way I use it. ***As for the TORn report, the clip was EXACTLY as Pallando had written it -- with Rick and Gollum and Ilsa. It was even in black and white! Wait, that's not right. It must be the 'morpheus' effect. Let me go over to TORn and refresh my memory. I'll be right back.
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OK, the game is -- Choose NINE from the following eleven scenes: 1) Eowyn standing and looking rather sad; 2) Frodo and Sam climbing a mountain; 3) A shot of soldiers on horseback marching through a camp in a green grassy clearing; 4) elanor walking down W. 45th Street in Manhattan; 5) Lots of shots of Gandalf in Minas Tirith; 6) Archers in a city courtyard (probably M.T.) taking aim and firing; 7) A hungover Pallando Blue riding a bus in Washington, D.C. the morning after a bachelor party; 8) An awesome shot of Gandalf on Shadowfax leading troops through the city streets; 9) New shots of Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in battle; 10) Eomer on horseback leading a charge into battle; 11) Gondorian soldiers in full armour on horseback charging into battle right into a line of orcs. [Now just try and find the scenes that do not fit! ;~)]
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There she was just a walkin
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Because as everyone knows Gondorian Soldiers don't ride horses into battle, they march... (except for the Knights of Dol Amroth of course...) I've got no idea of what happened to BG, MorGy, I guess he's just too busy these days... Cheers.
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It was okay, but I'm not a huge Matrix Fan. Bit of a suprise ending though. The ending was much better than the other 3/4 of the movie. I think I liked X2 more, though. Alright we've got the 2 big Summer movies out of the way. It's time for some ROTK pics and perhaps a trailer!!! Cheers.
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Miami, that was a terrific re-counting of the "tulpas" moment in morpheus' posting history. Yeah, he was whacked but I still enjoyed trying to follow his thought process.***MorG I implore
you to reserve judgement of Sauron at the Gate until you watch it with your own two (?)lava-lamp-eyes. I think he will be there, yes, but we do NOT know in what capacity or what outfit or what length of time and there is no reason to think the final heartstopping moments of Sauronic realization that we all love will be skipped. Remember your old mantra, Trust PJ. Oh, and if that troll Grimloch wanders over here, I may have to whip up some TATOW on his bait-draggin' ass***
Pallando, your parodies have me in stitches. Can't decide if I liked Chinatown or Casablanca best. I can't compete and won't even try.***And Alice and Ingold always make me laugh, but for different reasons.***But on to my observation. It's about history repeating itself or the
parallels I see between reaction to Matrix Reloaded and what we went through after T2T. It seems there are "purist" Matrix geeks, too! I read Harry's review and skimmed through the oddly familiar flame-fest talkback after it. I felt strangely relieved to learn that this phenomenon was not singular to LOTR. It seems that anytime you allow your expectations to be specific, whether from seeing too many spoilers ahead of time or from simply having rigid ideas in yer head, you run the risk of being extremely disappointed (which is too bad) or even bitter (which is worse yet more in your control so therefore less pitiable). I came late to The Matrix (I couldn't believe I'd like anything with Keanu in it) but once I saw it I understood what all the fuss was about. I enjoyed it very much and became a fan. What struck me about Harry's review is that he seems to be jumping to conclusions after having seen only half the film. I kept thinking "but he hasn't seen the whole thing yet". I bet a number of problems he has with Reloaded will be "explained" in Revolution. I mean, these films deal with illusions and alternate realities, so who knows what will be "revealed" in the third act? Granted, each film should stand on its own, just like LOTR, and perhaps many of the complaints will prove justified. But the whole yakfest reminds me of the LOTR purists' complaints, the way people are personally offended that their idea of what the movie should be wasn't up on the screen. I was flummoxed by that reaction to T2T and I am flummoxed by it for Matrix 2. I look forward to seeing Reloaded soon, but I have
not spent any time thinking about what it will be like, other than assuming it will be something like the first one, which I thought was intelligent fun. -
WAAAHHH!!! WAAAAHH! WAAAAAAAHHHH!!! Well, anyway, I do. And I would hold my breath until I turned blue until I got to go, but I've a feeling that unconsciousness and death would ensue long before I got to the cinema, specially since they aren't playing the movie till next week (I'll be in Dublin at the time, go me!) And morGoth, what debate am I supposed to be participating in? This site's so damned angry all the time that the mere act of posting is a debate, nay, a fist-fight even. I hardly dare post on Euro-AICN or AICN-DownUnder, the Barad-Dur of Banned-Dom. But damn that Euro-AICN column sucks. WHO reviews movies on there? And how can I make them stop?
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ROTK pics, yippee! (As Jake Lloyd would say). I suggest we stagger over to the new story on the front page.
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