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So what did Alan Horn have to say about THE MATRIX, SUPERMAN, BATMAN and SUPERMAN VS BATMAN'

Hey folks, Harry here... TONS OF COOL STUFF HERE! So hop to reading... So stay through those MATRIX RELOADED credits for sure! Also, sounds like Alan's getting ambitious about these here Warner Superhero flicks... Somebody really needs to send me the TROY script! And the SUPERMAN VS BATMAN script... and everything else that Warner Brothers has that might possibly be decent! Here ya go...

Hey Harry,

I emailed you a while back re: MAY and some things the Lion's Gate folks had to say about it. I'm in a class where speakers from the film world come in and speak of their roles industry. Today was Alan Horn - President and Chief Operating Officer at Warner Bros. Great guy, lots of awesome stories but I'll skip to some of the more interesting things (which you may or may not already know) he had to say about the MATRIX movies and the SUPERMAN/BATMAN stuff...

Reloaded is debuting at Cannes this year.

He loves the films and considers them family flicks despite the R rating which he has always been pissed about. (Implied that the next two would be R as well. Something about an old school guideline that says a martial arts flick that features "a kick to the head" equals automatic R. "No one slept at my house for a week after "The Ring" and that was PG-13 - I just don't get it")

He's seen Reloaded and says the effects are " one's ever seen anything like it"

GM donated 300 Cadalliacs for the shooting of the film - they wrecked all 300.

Neo flies in the film. Horn says it's "very dramatic" and that they'll really have to go out of their way to match it for the new Superman flick.

Matrix Revolutions is going to open at the same exact moment everywhere on the planet (So it would open at midnight in the U.S., for instance, and at noon halfway around the world). First time this has been done.

Definitely a "to be continued" ending to Reloaded. The Brothers wanted to release the films a month apart but the studio was opposed because they wanted to allow for the video gross. It turned out the argument was moot because the effects on the third still have many months to go.

A trailer for Revolutions will follow the END of the credits for Reloaded (the credits are about 8 minutes long). The Brothers insisted on this - despite studio worries that the audience won't stick around (they knew that after word got out they'd have no problems getting the audience to wait).

Matrix Reloaded will be on video by Early November.


RE: Superman vs. Batman "We will do it." He says it's "dark and mean-spirited" but really, really good. The plan is to have Superman and Batman origin stories released within the same year (starting in 2005). Each movie (I think he said there would be three of each?) will deal with the Superheroes' origins and began to establish their relationship to each other which will set up "Superman vs. Batman" to follow the backstories.

Superman and Batman find themselves at odds in "Superman v. Batman" when Bruce goes out seeking bloody vengeance on the murderer of his new bride, Jennifer. Superman opposes him, fights him to the near death - then it's discovered that the guy behind Jennifer's murder is also this big baddie in Superman's circle and they unite to fight or something sweet like that. I'm anxious to see how "dark and mean-spirited" this really is...

The second Superman movie will have Clark returning to the remnants of Krypton (yes, there are remnants).

J.J. Abrams' script for Superman: Horn was put off by the idea initially but after reading the script, liked it a lot - especially the nuances of the Clark Kent character. Also, feels it's important to get an ACTOR, a great ACTOR, to be Clark. The Clark/Superman difference "can't just be about taking the glasses off anymore." They are really being selective in trying to find someone who can pull it off because if they can't find someone worthy of following Christopher Reever "we're screwed." (Horn was a big fan of Josh Hartnett in the role)

First Batman origin story has Bruce witnessing the murder of parents, enraged and guilty he turns to crime before he becomes a crime-fighter. Builds the Batcave and mobile, hires Alfred, studies martial arts, etc.

Little bit on Brad Pitt's TROY (I'm not sure who's directing): Horn, who's read a TON of screenplays in his day (starting in the 70s when he co-founded Castlerock) says that the screenplay for TROY is "quite possibly the best screenplay (I've) ever read."

Hope some of that is new or interesting...


Readers Talkback
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  • April 8, 2003, 7:24 a.m. CST

    Does Superman matter anymore?

    by Beatrice_Kidd

    Just asking...

  • April 8, 2003, 7:26 a.m. CST


    by thx777b

    Great stuff today. One month folks! One fucking month!

  • April 8, 2003, 7:33 a.m. CST

    troy director

    by laotse

    isn't wolfgang petersen going to shoot it?

  • April 8, 2003, 7:36 a.m. CST

    Hey Courtney...what about KING CONAN ?!!!

    by bluelou_boyle

    Was this mentioned ? Surely someone must have asked ?It must be made !!!

  • April 8, 2003, 7:38 a.m. CST

    I wouldn't say my faith is restored in Supeman and Batman

    by Heleno

    But those little tidbits are encouraging. And as for the Matrix, I'm quite psyched about a simultaneous world release - now that's showbiz. And a Revolutions trailer is more than worth sitting through 8 measly minutes of credits for, so that's good news too.

  • April 8, 2003, 7:41 a.m. CST

    "turns to crime before he becomes a crime-fighter"

    by NoOpinion

    Just stop screwing around and do Year one. Wake me up when you're done WB.

  • April 8, 2003, 8:11 a.m. CST


    by chrth

    Of course there are remnants. It's called KRYPTONITE.

  • April 8, 2003, 8:17 a.m. CST

    Tom Welling is Superman...

    by Coatsy UK

    ...Warners should wait two or three years, end Smallville at it's peak and then cast Welling as Superman. After watching him in Smallville i believe he has everything thats required to play both Clark and Supes. For a while i thought he didn't have the right build to look convincing as The Big S, but have noticed through the second season of Smallville that he's actually quite broad and fairly muscular. Bottom line, Welling is the man. Oh, and Michael Rosenbaum kicks ass as Lex Luthor...

  • How many times have projects of Batman and Superman fallen apart now? I'm not getting excited over ANYTHING about those two properties until they're actually ruling the planet in theaters. Until then, I'm a big fat doubting thomas about the whole DC franchise. I'd get more excited about a Namor movie starring Keanu Reeves, and I'm not a big fan of either.***********I guess it's too early in the morning for me, because I'm just not that excited about Matrix right now. The first film sort of snuck up on me, and either because of forced indifference on my part to repeat that surprise or just fatigue after waiting all those years just to be disappointed by the Star Wars prequels, I can't get worked up about these Matrix sequels. I yawn when I see Animatrix news on this site even with sixty bazillion exclamation points!!! Maybe I'll like them better for it--although I suspect it'll be frustrating to wait for Revolutions after Reloaded. ************* AND YEAH, WHERE'S THE KING CONAN INFO?!?!?!?! There's a new review of the "shorter" script draft out there, and I want to see Moriarty's reaction after he got me so worked up over the last draft. One thing I'm disappointed by is that it sounds like Conan's son "Kon" is no longer his biological son--which robs the conflict between them of something in my opinion. The kid grows up away from him still, so really, Conan is just his benefactor, not a father to him in any real way, and that blows. Darth Vader saying "Well, I'm not your father, but I saved you as a child and had somebody take care of you--that's important too," wouldn't have cut it, and neither does this. Hope they can fix it.

  • April 8, 2003, 8:23 a.m. CST

    Somebody hould've asked who's great idea...

    by Silvio Dante

    it was to attach people like Ratner and Abrams to Superman in the first place in favour of, mmm, let's say Burton & Smith. I guess Wachowskis will be too burned out to play any role in the proceedings?

  • i can only hope and pray.

  • April 8, 2003, 8:25 a.m. CST

    Welling? No thanks...

    by Blue_In_The_Face

    Welling is good for teenie bop audiences. Welling by no means is Superman. Alterante reality teenie bop dream guy Superboy? Yes. Real cool superhero that fights Darkseid? ABSOLUTELY NO!

  • April 8, 2003, 8:26 a.m. CST


    by earthworm

    ...really really not sure about this Batman vs Superman thing. Nice prospect if done right, but this sounds more like desperately shoe horning some UNBELIEVABLY cliched crossover (I mean honestly, killed his fiancee...start out up...common enemy...yada yada yada...ffs.) And no-one from Smallville should come anywhere near this. I could kick Tom Wellings ass, HE couldn't kick his own. And apart from being bald, what exactly would Rosenbaum bring to the party? Fuck all, thats what.

  • April 8, 2003, 8:51 a.m. CST


    by NoOpinion

    I'd give Welling a chance. Sure, He's pretty broad right now, but he'd have to bulk up a whole lot more to step into the red boots. Cut the hair a bit, he'd need to create a different Clark persona too and be more self assured as Superman. I like the idea of this developing from Smallville. I'm not the biggest fan of the show, but a Superman movie with Welling and Rosenbaum needn't and shouldn't be a Smallville movie, being the protector of the Earth is a whole different ball game. What Rosenbaum brings to the party is this, he pulls of those little moments where he's threatening someone without actually saying threatening things very well. People under estimate him, then he makes them realise who they're messing with. And this is when Lex is a good guy, Rosenbaum would grow into a darker more lethal Luthor very well indeed.

  • April 8, 2003, 9 a.m. CST

    Yeah Right

    by Steve Rogers

    I'll believe it when I see it. Horn almost had me there when he said they needed a great ACTOR for Supes (very true-- he has obviously learnt his lesson from the original films and the recent Marvel bonanza), but then the words 'Josh' and 'Hartnett' reared their ugly heads and the whole thing collapsed under a huge deluge of studio bullshit. Warner Bros have no idea. THEY. HAVE. NO. IDEA. Clark goes back to "the remnants of Krypton"? Bruce Wayne "turns to crime" befor ebecoming Batman? ARE YOU PEOPLE OUT OF YOUR FREAKIN' MINDS!!!??? I'm not being an inflexible fanboy here, I understand that they mythos have to be bent a little to fit the structure and reality of a movie (organic webshooters? Worked a treat. Uniform X-Outfits? Rock on), but changing the very basis of what makes these characters who they are is playing with fire on one level and, on another, just plain idiocy. It's Superman and Batman fer Crissakes! Two of the most recognisable comic book icons on the planet! THEY DO NOT NEED TO BE 'IMPROVED' BY CORPORATE DICKHEADS MAKING DECISION BY COMMITTEE!!

  • April 8, 2003, 9:01 a.m. CST

    New Batman: Now Flashback Free

    by granhalcon

    Everybody knows about the origins of Superman and Batman... We don't really need more-Bruce-Wayne's-parents-getting-killed explanation. Not since it has been repeated in almost every cartoon / comic book / article / movie, mainly in Burton's "Batman" and it was a bit of a success, I'm told, so could we please skip that part and move forward?. Unless they keep on with the Batman: Year One project... which won't happen. And I hope that the rumours of Dominic Sena helming Superman are bs.

  • April 8, 2003, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Warner's Super Franchise

    by twitaman

    I think if Warners is going to take their time and do it right then they should buy back the film rights from Jon Peters and turn the project over to the producers of the Smallville television show, Millar & Gough. Based on what they've been doing on that show they seem to really have the right take on the Superman myth. Michael Rosenbaum is a true talent. Tom Welling has really grown into the role and is definitely more "super" than any of the actors being touted as possible Supermen (Colin Farrell? I like him, but he's a tiny little guy when compared to Tom). A Smallville movie would be a tremendous smash! It would be true corporate synergy. It would show that the execs at Warners don't have their heads up their ass*s. And if Jon Peters makes a stink about relinquishing the rights then throw him a bone and make him an executive producer. He'd make a ton of money without having the burden of all the stress.

  • April 8, 2003, 9:12 a.m. CST

    Warner Bros. will always screw this up...

    by Homer Jay

    Marvel films have rocked since the original X-Men. With the exception of the original SUPERMAN, Warner Bros. has NEVER gotten it right. If they want to get Superman or Batman off on the right foot, they'd make THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and work backwards (would that make it a "post-quel"?). Give it to a GOOD writer/director with respect for the material, cast Russell Crowe as Batman, Crispin Glover as the Joker, Christopher Lee as Comm. Gordon, and John Travolta (think about it) as Superman.

  • April 8, 2003, 9:12 a.m. CST


    by jedimast3r

    ...>ahem<...I'm sorry, but the Supes/Bats franchises are laden with so much camp and idiocy that I will never go see a WB comic flick again. Ol' Steve Rogers put it quite simply the best. The only rumor that I had even a tingle of agreement was for Jude Law to be cast, but not as Superman...I think he'd be a dark enough actor for Bruce Wayne. But 4uck all that changing the origin shit, OMFG -- WB has itchy pockets because Marvel is succeeding on SO MANY levels (moment of silent tribute, please...) that they are MISSING THE GODDAMNED POINT: Stick to the MF-in comic true-like, and you'll have not only money, but AN ENDURING AND RESPECTABLE FAN BASE, and better yet, A WORTHWHILE MOTION PICTURE. These movies need to speak the messages that the comics send, not some stupid hour and a half excuse to try to sell DVDs.

  • April 8, 2003, 9:15 a.m. CST


    by jedimast3r

    John Travolta as Superman??!! Holy shit you really must be a WB Casting Agent! BUAHAHAHAHAHA

  • April 8, 2003, 9:17 a.m. CST

    I've got it!

    by Blue_In_The_Face

    Johnny Knoxville as Superman, Wee Man as Mr. Maxxizzlpsl...whatever, Drew Carey as Lex Luthor and Aria Giovanni as Louis Lane! Superman will always be trying new death defying stunts like eating kryptonite with mustard or wearing a kryptonite jockstrap and getting shot in the nuts with a Tomahawk missile. Lex Luthor could have a sub-plot in which he pays for Louis Lane's journal school and when she finally graduates she leaves him to go with fuck Clark Kent!

  • April 8, 2003, 9:19 a.m. CST

    Talk about selective memory

    by Wolvie6

    I swear you talkbackers are so fucking fickle. Does anyone remember when Marvel couldn't put out a decent flick?? How about even one flick?? I remember when it was thought by the masses that we would NEVER see a Marvel flick. Now there are 3 in one year. Christ, DC has had success with its franchises in the past. Batman and Superman will play at a multiplex near us all soon enough. Its only a matter of time. Just get a decent Superman for christs sake and don't change the origins too much. Josh Harnet or the "that 70s show" guy as Superman????? What the hell are the execs smoking????

  • April 8, 2003, 9:21 a.m. CST

    Smallville = Not Good

    by jedimast3r

    It looks like I'm a real hater in this Talk Back, but oh well...I personally loved the Smallville Pilot. It did soooooo many things right. It was nice to see a Clark based loosely on the pages of the Superboy comic. That was until the second episode, with the fly-boy thing, and the infusion of the krypto-mutants. Not to mention every time I saw Lana's bedroom I thought Katie Holmes would come climbing up to the window -- "Ooops, sorry, wrong house!" Well, maybe that's really why I watched it...hmmm...anyway, Smallville is's a Buffy-Clone in a Superman wrapper with the worst possible label: "Warning: If this show actually had a good writing staff, you probably wouldn't be wasting your time"...Tom and Michael are talented, but Miller and Gough are losers.

  • April 8, 2003, 9:25 a.m. CST


    by jedimast3r

    Less is more. Would you rather have Batman and Robin Forever Again or wait thru more legal issues for Amazing Spider-Man? Think, Young Padawan. That's what I thought. Now shhhhhh, and don't call us fickle. Marvel played chess with it's properties and waited for the right moves; DC soldout as quick as it could.

  • April 8, 2003, 9:33 a.m. CST

    "We love dark and edgy, but can we tone it down a little? We're

    by California Split

    "What I mean is, we at Warner Brothers are all for mean-spirited, but we really need a PG-13. Could you maybe cut out all that fighting and cursing, but, oh leave in the explosions for our big trailer moment. We also like the rock montage and those smirky one-liners. Those script doctors were worth their weight in gold!"

  • April 8, 2003, 9:41 a.m. CST

    They should do Batman vs Judge Dredd

    by earthworm

    Anyone read this? Nose crunching violent goodness. Better than your pansy Superman comics. And I repeat, Tom Welling couldn't kick his own ass.

  • April 8, 2003, 9:47 a.m. CST

    This fight would last 4 seconds

    by John_Milner

    I don't mean to sound like a fanboy, but can we get a reality check here? This is the lamest fight idea yet. To quote "They fight to near death" WTF? Let's analyze this shall we. Superman can fly, lift mountains, has heat vision, is pretty much indestructable, CAN FLY, CAN LIFT MOUNTAINS, PRETTY MUCH INDESTRUCTABLE.... Batman has a Batarang. Don't give me any shit about "Batman will fight to the death and will always find a way to win" as him fighting to the death would mean his death at the 4 second count. This is another turd thought up by the same folk who ruined the last Batman franchise by giving the movies to Mr.Bat-Nipple himself Joel. NEXT.

  • April 8, 2003, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Messing up Batman

    by kintar0

    Well, fuck, he we go again. I'm late for work but I'm gonna put in my two cents before this talkbalk becomes perverted and political. BATMAN DOESN'T HAVE A LOVE INTEREST. WHAT'S MORE BATMAN WOULD NEVER GET MARRIED. ARE you fucking kidding me? Batman gets married? Goddamn it.

  • April 8, 2003, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Batman would whip Superman's ASS !

    by madoo14

    Batman getting married? Give me a break ! That is probably the second biggest problem with the Batman franchise, they spend way too much time on Bruce Wayne and his personal life. What they need to realize and work in is that Bruce Wayne IS the costume. Batman has become the dominant personality, Bruce Wayne is merely an act. Batman is a psycho, translate that to the screen! The biggest beaf I have with the movie is the suit. They need to do away with that heavy rubber shit and get him a real suit. Batman is supposed to be stealthy, agile, lightning quick. How the hell is he going to sneak through the shadows and dodge bullets when he can't even turn his head without turning his shoulders. Now I was feeling optimistic until I read the synopsis for this POS. The love interest needs to be done away with as the major plot line. Instead have it as a sub plot just like in the other movies (Warner has got to try to draw a crowd other than us geeks). The major plot line should be the death of either Batgirl or Robin at the hands of the Joker (Forget about the first movie) who then flees to da-da-da-da Metropolis. Batman trails him, runs into Superman and fills him in on his situation, and they set out together. They find Joker and right before Batman is about to deal out the death blow Superman stops him which leads to Joker's escape. Batman is now pissed off and return's to Gotham to get ready to take on Joker again and if neccessary Superman. Now I must digress for a moment and touch on the fact that Batman is the most prepared Superhero ever and he's not rolling into Metropolis without first and foremost his Kryptonite ring, let alone an entire Kyptonite arsenal. So when Batman returns Superman tries to stop him. Now here is where Warner is really going to fuck it up. Batman would win this fight, he has before, hands down. With a weakness like a green stone incapacitates you how could he not. I would have superman get in his licks though, it would be a great fight to see on screen. Superman dodging kryptonite batarangs and Batman taking some serious shots from Supey. During the fight they are talking to each other, Superman of course trying to stop the fight. This is how it comes to be revealed that Lex Luthor is actually in cahoots with Joker which leads to Superman's near death savior("Superman opposes him, fights him to the near death " I hope to god this means Superman is near death). At which point the pair set out again to whip some royal ASS ! (I have this shot in my head of the camera above superman flying above the city while Batman is below moving from rooftop to rooftop changing jump lines like a spider) This is a gold mine! Warner is sitting on a money maker as big as The Matrix sequels and it looks like they are gonna fuck it up, BIG TIME!

  • April 8, 2003, 10:06 a.m. CST

    Why is it that Indiana Jones, Star Trek and James Bond, for exam

    by the G-man

    And WB thinks Superman and Batman cannot?

  • April 8, 2003, 10:11 a.m. CST

    Oh, the horror...

    by Nitecrawler

    .... of movie executives making script decisions, especially on material they know nothing about. Bruce Wayne, criminal? Return to Krypton? Catwoman ISN'T Selina Kyle? Batman has a fiancee? Taking characters with such a rich and dfined history and changing them on a marketing whim is cause for a new, deeper level of Hell- the other 9 just won't do anymore. For further evidence, go to and look up what they're doing to Marvel's THE GARGOYLE. *shudder* And it always baffles me when I hear of a director making a comic movie and saying "I never really read or cared for the comics..." Why the bloody hell are you making a movie then? *sigh* On the other hand, I'll give it to Steve Rogers..... Crispin Glover as the Joker is the best goddamn idea i've heard in ages, now that Willem Dafoe can't have the job. **BAMF**

  • April 8, 2003, 10:14 a.m. CST

    Yes, Batman would win...

    by Blue_In_The_Face

    It is pretty simple. Bruce Wayne is nearly a genius. Clark Kent is a redneck raised in a farm in hillbilly country! Yes, I know, rednecks can be smart but don't tell me that the small town mentality didn't stay with ol' Supes. By the way, where's Chicken George? He makes some fucking funny comments!

  • April 8, 2003, 10:16 a.m. CST

    WB - just give it up. Examples inside . . .

    by Movietool

    Superman goes back to Krypton? Bruce Wayne turns to crime? Please - if you're blind in both eyes, deaf in both ears, and have been drinking Mad Dog 40/40 all night, just give the keys to somebody else, eh?

  • April 8, 2003, 10:25 a.m. CST

    hartnett "great actor"? this guy is nuts!

    by bright

    hartnett can squint. nothing else.

  • April 8, 2003, 10:31 a.m. CST

    Harry, I'm serious here about your skills as a journalist and as

    by TheGinger Twit

    I say it with love, really I do. But for feks sake man... Give us some snappy titles to juice us up like you used to.

  • April 8, 2003, 10:34 a.m. CST

    WB = DC's Doom

    by Blue_In_The_Face

    I think WB should just quit trying to make DC movies. It is a miracle that they don't have a Bat-mite movie by now! Oh, shit! I just gave them another idea! Well, maybe if we see a Superman with a X-men-like leather suit and no shield we might be able to get a good laugh. Batman a criminal? Why not just make him a cocaine addict while you are at it? Shit! Another idea for WB!

  • April 8, 2003, 10:44 a.m. CST

    Warner Bros - Come To Your Senses

    by darknight

    Dear Warner Brothers: I thought I would try the subtle approach before I started hurling explosive batarangs into the Warner Brothers lot. You know me. I'm not much for negotiation unless I'm dangling you off a roof, 80 stories above the pavement. I'm Batman. I always get what I want. After that last debacle of a movie, it's getting harder and harder to fight crime in the streets of Gotham. Super-villians make fun of the damned "sexy new batsuit" that you tressed me up in. I had to send Robin off to college and Alfred off to the nursing home to avoid all of those ugly "gay" rumors that kept plaguing me. I drew the line at inviting Aunt Harriet back to Wayne Manor for an extended stay. Now you want to turn to a criminal lifestyle before I become a hero. Now you want me to get married, only to kill my bride. Now you want me to fight Superman to the near death, only to realize "Whoops, sorry, it's a mistake. The real villian here is one of Superman's friends!" This is where I draw the line, WB. Using the Batcave's cray computers, I have redirected a US naval detachment that was on its way to Iraq. The fleet now sits off the coast of California, with a whole array of missiles pointed at the WB lot. If you don't want Dawson's Creek to turn into a river of blood, you will spare me any further indignation. I've lost my patience with you Jokers. The Bat

  • April 8, 2003, 10:50 a.m. CST

    Right on, Jango Fett

    by The Trifler

    You hit it perfectly. So much so that I have nothing to add. The approach of this studio is ludicrous. How many times do we need to see origin stories? It's almost like the constant shifting of history and fate in the FRIDAY THE 13TH/ELM ST/HALLOWEEN movies. Every movie had some new reason for the evil, and a new way of killing the bad guy. No cocnsistencey. Yea, it's not TOTALLY the same, but what is wrong with staying one timeline?

  • April 8, 2003, 10:52 a.m. CST

    Does anyone who makes these films read the fucking comics!?!

    by yourmoviesucked

  • April 8, 2003, 10:55 a.m. CST

    "TROY is the best script I've ever read..."

    by Dolemite_fan

    we all know that's a lie, or maybe it's not and he just suffers from bad taste like Charlie Kaufman's agent in ADAPTATION, which is funny b/c now I am thinking about Moriarty's script review of SUPERMAN where he "lands on the ground like an NBA MVP." Hahahaha, SUPERMAN will be terrible, these assholes have no idea what they want. "You see her? Yeah, I fucked her in the ass!"--Alan Horn (while reading the script for TROY)

  • April 8, 2003, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Eat me WB.

    by yourmoviesucked

    Yet another origin picture. No, wait... Thats two origin picture for characters whose origins we are already aware. Jesus fucking Christ WB are you not the biggest bunch of hacks that walks the planet. You already fucked Batman's orgin up in the first film that you made. As if making a new one would make up for it. That's $8 I'm not going to want to spend.

  • April 8, 2003, 11:05 a.m. CST

    It must be ego

    by White_Noise

    Did X-men and Spidey benefit from being the first big-screen take on these characters? I mean the writers and directors could focus on breathing life into these characters for the first time and let the already classic back-stories set the parameters for the film they wanted to make. Supes and Bats have been done so many times the egos of the principles involved can't help but want to add their own wrinkle to show their 'creativity'. Just a helpful update... These characters AREN'T real people. They are defined by certain super-human qualities that are more easily recognizable than the costumes they wear. Bruce Wayne as a criminal? Yeah, leave that in and make the batsuit pink too. Everyone will remember your film!

  • April 8, 2003, 11:06 a.m. CST

    This is getting a bit beyond a joke wouldn't you say. Instead of

    by TheGinger Twit

    It's official right now, as of this moment, America has lost it's collective mind. Entertain us on TV with lots of buildings and children being blown up, while we get to see an alien Aryan male in the American flag cloured red and blue tights, fighting against a dark human who dresses up as a bat. James Cameron was right, you can't do Alien Vs. Predator. That's just admitting defeat. These are just going to be the bottom on the cubbord collectable posters that no one will care about.

  • April 8, 2003, 11:37 a.m. CST

    The 90's are over...The Fall of Warner Brothers has already begu

    by 20th Century Fox

    Darknight...You stated the prbolems with this idea oh so well...However there is another angle of this that I want to explore....What Alan horn is trying to do is recapture the "success" WB (and TIMEWARNER) had durng the the late 1980's thru the 1990's. So he takes two beloved superhero's and gives them a 90's twist (They are really evil, they fight each other, they are filled with rage, they are really dark people, the criminals are the good guys, they are not normal, they arent really heros...goth good, prep bad...) and links it with a origin story... Something like this would pased in 1989 or 1995 but today it looks tired. Why cause it IS tired. I mean you have a whole bunch of people who were shaped by the 1960's values and have late 1990's work ethic you get crap like this. Were not going to give the audience a new story (that requires creativity) or even be true to the characters (that would NOT get Mr. Horn invited to chi-chi cocktail parties) were just going to to rehash everytihng from our overpaid writng staff..Find a "hip (aka: flavor of the moment) director" up the goth angle, work the alternative music make it "dark" and "egdy" and the gorly days of the AOLTIMEWARNER at $90 USD a share will return.... Get a clue Mr. Horn...

  • April 8, 2003, 11:37 a.m. CST


    by mifune jr.

    That Jean-Claude Van Damme is in talks to star in STREET FIGHTER 2!!!!? GUILE RULES!!!!!

  • April 8, 2003, 11:39 a.m. CST

    You're kidding! The CEO of WB says everything they're currently

    by WeedyMcSmokey

    $10 bucks says he's never read that script (What CEO reads scripts?). And he was getting the names of the projects he mentioned read to him through an ear-piece.

  • April 8, 2003, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Wake up Jango...

    by John_Milner

    Jezuz JANGO FETT it's time you bit into a reality bar (or as much reality as you can as we are dealing with comic book characters). SO Batman is smart, nearly genius, does being smart stop your fucking head from coming off your body after being punched by Superman? Is Big bad Batman gonna way a twap for Supes? Maybe one of those old Acme ones from the Road Runner cartoons. Hey I know If smarts can beat an indestructable being who can fly, why don't they make a movie pitting Steven Hawkings against Supes? According to your logic Hawkings would win.

  • April 8, 2003, 11:57 a.m. CST

    WB need to listen to the masses...

    by pablo_mcginty

    WB need to keep Superman and Batman separate. It's a cop out to stick em in the same movie. I don't think they'll ever get off the ground as long as the WB execs keep their thumbs up their asses.

  • April 8, 2003, 11:58 a.m. CST


    by Blue_In_The_Face

    It is really disturbing to see a naked Harry cartoon on the corner of the screen while trying to read your comments about the insane machinations of WB. If they make Street Fighter 2 they should also make Tetris. I bet WB has thrown around behind closed doors the idea that Batman and Superman should be involved in love triangle with Flash!

  • April 8, 2003, noon CST


    by Blue_In_The_Face

    It is really disturbing to see a naked Harry cartoon on the corner of the screen while trying to read your comments about the insane machinations of WB. If they make Street Fighter 2 they should also make Tetris. I bet WB has thrown around behind closed doors the idea that Batman and Superman should be involved in love triangle with Flash!

  • April 8, 2003, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Silvio Dante, Burton was never going to work with Smith

    by KingKrypton

    Burton's first act as director was to fire Smith and hire writers who would conform to his and Peters' "vision" (if you can call it that) of Superman. As far as this report on Horn goes, Horn is a blithering idiot. Every single word out of his mouth is bullshit. None of these ideas sounds good (especially if we take into account that Akiva Goldsman is writing BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN and they're still pushing the JJ Abrams/Jon Peters SUPERMAN script). This numbnuts wouldn't know how to make a good comic book movie if his life depended on it. How else to do you explain his claiming they wanted "a great actor" for Superman and then offering the role to twits like Ashton Kutcher and Evan Marriott? The man's just as big a retard as his pet producer Peters.

  • April 8, 2003, 12:15 p.m. CST


    by yourmoviesucked

  • April 8, 2003, 12:18 p.m. CST


    by yourmoviesucked

    Did it ever occure to the writer that the reason that Superman has his super powers is because of Earths yellow sun? If Superman were to return to Krypton (like that is even a possibility to begin with) he would turn back to a normal man as soon as he came in contact with Kryptons red sun. Fade to black... Roll credits.

  • April 8, 2003, 12:27 p.m. CST


    by rkhalloran

    As far as who's the costume and who's for real, Paul Dini handled it beautifully in Batman Beyond, where Bruce was being made to hear voices. When Terry busted him out, he asked how Bruce knew the voices were fake. "They kept calling me Bruce...". And making young Bruce take a walk on the dark side? Ain't happening; his tactics may border on it, but he's as light-side as it comes. As far as the Big Blue Boyscout, Old School (pre goddam John Bryne) he *was* Kal-el of Krypton, who deigned to go slumming among us mere mortals in the blue suit & glasses. *Now* he's Clark Kent of Smallville KS who puts on tights and a cape to go bash baddies to distract you from noticing how much he looks like that reporter guy...

  • April 8, 2003, 12:47 p.m. CST

    Poor DC Comics Is All I Can Say. WARNER BROSTHERS Are Idiots Per

    by The Founder

    Why in the world is their a need a for another orgin story?? Jeez Superman and batman have been told for every generation. The baby Bommers and ss Gen Xr's had the movie in the late 70's early 80's, and them movies are classics that have carried over to Gen Y, but they also had in addition to the movies, the animated series. Why in the world would the WB put Superman in a new orgin, and then change shyt. He's goes back to Krypton in the 2nd film???? I want them to go ahead with these projects, and invest so much money in them, and pray to god these projects blow up in their faces. Alan Horn is clueless along with the rest of the numb nuts there at Warners. Horn said he was never a fan of Hartnett, but yet he makes this statement after the Wb has tried to get harnett on board more then anyone else, and then Ashton Kutcher?? Yeah I can really tell that they wanted a good actor for the role of supes. Poor DC comics have no say, input or creative power at all, and the sad thing is that any major change to Superman in the movie will more then likly be changed in the comics. Wb will force DC to make them asinine changes to stay in tune with the movie, thus phucking up the DC universe.

  • April 8, 2003, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Think about it this way...

    by Blue_In_The_Face

    Remember Superman 2? Remember the introduction to the movie? It was a recap of all that is needed to bring even first time viewers up to date. 5-10 minutes of origin would not hurt and would not drag the pace of the movie to a screeching halt. Fett I agree with you but we need to give a little bit of background to those that have been living in a rock for the past 80 years and had no childhood.

  • April 8, 2003, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Actually, Dolemite Fan

    by TorbenTSD

    I know it a pastime to make fun of anything someone from WB (and let

  • April 8, 2003, 1 p.m. CST

    Actually, Dolemite Fan

    by TorbenTSD

    I know it a pastime to make fun of anything someone from WB (and let

  • April 8, 2003, 1:07 p.m. CST

    Sorry about the double post

    by TorbenTSD

    Frizzy computer

  • April 8, 2003, 1:09 p.m. CST

    *Sighs heavily*

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    That's it. I have no biting commentary. No observations. Nothing. The whole fucking DC Superhero debacle just Makes Me Tired. And not tired in a nice I've-just-had-loads-of-sex tired. Tired as in, I've-spent-all-day -in-the-social-security-office -queuing-and-being- given-the-wrong-forms- which-I've-spent-an-hour-completing- and-then-queuing-again-and-then- being-told-they're-the -wrong-forms tired. If you follow me.

  • April 8, 2003, 1:11 p.m. CST

    It's so simple....

    by Rotzloeffel

    It's so simple. Superman should be played by.... CRISPIN GLOVER! He is perfect as Clark, don't you think so?

  • April 8, 2003, 1:30 p.m. CST

    I wrote a SUPERMAN screenplay once, based upon the Death of Supe

    by Uncle Sam

    It was entitled Superman: THE ETERNAL BATTLE. The movie began with the Justice League of America being brutally defeated by Doomsday one morning. It was well established that Superman had been a superhero for fifteen years already, that he had saved the world several times in the past, and that he was married to Lois Lane. There was a retelling of Superman's origin story halfway through the movie. The artificial intelligence that takes care of the Fortress of Solitude mistakenly identifies the Cyborg as being the real Superman, and it shows him the story, from the imminent annihilation of Krypton to his childhood here on Earth, being raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent. I know that the "Death of/Reign of" storylines were pretty lame (99 percent total hype and 1 percent actual substance), but it would make for a quite entertaining summer popcorn flick. My screenplay was quite simplified, actually. There was no Eradicator, no Superboy-clone, no Hank Henshaw (the Cyborg would merely have been a cybernetically-enhanced duplicate of Superman, created by Lex Luthor to replace his fallen arch-nemesis (Luthor also created Doomsday to hunt down and kill the Man of Steel)), no Mogul, no lame-ass JLA members, just a great action-packed "be all, end all" superhero flick. And Bruce Campbell would have played the role of Hal Jordan/Green Lantern. If I was able to come up with a fairly decent script in a matter of a few hours, why can't those fucktards over at Warner do the same? Oh yeah, they're fucktards, that's why. But I shouldn't worry, though, since AOL-Time-Warner lost 99 BILLION in 2002, and will probably be bankrupt this time next year. - I WANT YOU, but not in that way.

  • April 8, 2003, 1:30 p.m. CST

    I wrote a SUPERMAN screenplay once, based upon the Death of Supe

    by Uncle Sam

    It was entitled Superman: THE ETERNAL BATTLE. The movie began with the Justice League of America being brutally defeated by Doomsday one morning. It was well established that Superman had been a superhero for fifteen years already, that he had saved the world several times in the past, and that he was married to Lois Lane. There was a retelling of Superman's origin story halfway through the movie. The artificial intelligence that takes care of the Fortress of Solitude mistakenly identifies the Cyborg as being the real Superman, and it shows him the story, from the imminent annihilation of Krypton to his childhood here on Earth, being raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent. I know that the "Death of/Reign of" storylines were pretty lame (99 percent total hype and 1 percent actual substance), but it would make for a quite entertaining summer popcorn flick. My screenplay was quite simplified, actually. There was no Eradicator, no Superboy-clone, no Hank Henshaw (the Cyborg would merely have been a cybernetically-enhanced duplicate of Superman, created by Lex Luthor to replace his fallen arch-nemesis (Luthor also created Doomsday to hunt down and kill the Man of Steel)), no Mogul, no lame-ass JLA members, just a great action-packed "be all, end all" superhero flick. And Bruce Campbell would have played the role of Hal Jordan/Green Lantern. If I was able to come up with a fairly decent script in a matter of a few hours, why can't those fucktards over at Warner do the same? Oh yeah, they're fucktards, that's why. But I shouldn't worry, though, since AOL-Time-Warner lost 99 BILLION in 2002, and will probably be bankrupt this time next year. - I WANT YOU, but not in that way.

  • April 8, 2003, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Thank God That The Wachowskis And Silver Have Control Over The M

    by The Founder

    Alan Horn is an Idiot period. The man come more then likly run the operations and business of a major studio, but he should leave the creativity story telling to the writers, directors, and producers. This man says that he saw no need fot the matrix sequels to have an r-rating, because the Ring was perfectly scary wiithout one?? Well the Matix is a different genre, and the last thing the sequels need is to be watered down, because Wb want's to sell happy meals and toys to kids and any other merchindising deals they can muster up. I'm sure that Horn has tried to wrest creatrive control from the Wachowskis and knock this puppy down to a PG rating. I just thank god that warners has very little control other then budget in this movie.

  • April 8, 2003, 1:48 p.m. CST

    "Intelligentially written"?

    by Drath

    That's a great place for a typo, isn't it? Sorry, TorbenTSD, I don't mean to be a spelling bee-atch. I haven't read the script like you have apparently(lucky bastard), but I agree with the rest of what you said. However with someone like Horn, I EXPECT them to indulge in hyperbole, so I don't think his praising the script means all that much. The actors that are attached to the film(along with what I know about the Trojan War from Greek myth) is more than enough to interest. Good buzz about the script is till good though.

  • April 8, 2003, 3:18 p.m. CST

    Leave the Superhero movies to Marvel, Warner Bros.

    by Johnny Storm

    They know how to do them right. Josh Hartnett? It's a pretty sad day for Supes when Hartnett passes.

  • April 8, 2003, 3:28 p.m. CST

    HOLY SHIT!!!!!!

    by small boy

    That sounds...SLAMMIN'!!!!!!!!

  • April 8, 2003, 4:09 p.m. CST

    FUCK THE R Rating for Matrix trilogy!!!

    by rivetbadtz

    Seriously, has the MPAA lost its mind? The Ring and Minority Report get PG-13's but the Matrix films get an R??? Then again this is the same ratings board that gave Orgazmo an NC-17. Im glad someone at WB is mad about the R rating, as its total and utter bullshit(there was no real violence in the first Matrix, zero sexuality, and hardly any swearing: TOTAL PG-13 faire!!!)

  • April 8, 2003, 4:46 p.m. CST


    by DiernaSoul

    Excuse me? Hires Alfred??? What do you mean he hires Alfred?! Uh Hellooo!! Alfred practically raised Bruce!!!! And why am I not surprised that Bruce gets married only to have his bride be offed? And by a Supes baddie too! Yeesh! Now...Supes visiting the remnants of Krypton...well if it were a bunch of Asteroids I'd understand...

  • April 8, 2003, 5:24 p.m. CST

    Who should play superman!!!!!!!!!!

    by Lyunardo

    I wasn't interested in the show, but that Joe Millionaire guy is everywhere, and everytime I see him, I think "If that guy got a haircut, he'd look just like Alex Ross' version of Superman" Not sure if he's even an actor though...

  • April 8, 2003, 5:25 p.m. CST


    by KnightWing13

    Why would BILLIONARE Bruce Wayne need to "turn to crime"??? For kicks?? The continual 'revisionist' views of the origins of both characters are what have and will ruin the films for the true comic fan/geek. WB just doesn't seem to understand. Or care. Only Superman got it right.

  • April 8, 2003, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Who's this Batman chap?

    by Duck of Death

    Shore sounds like an innerestin feller, though I surely wish they'd make one of them picture shows what tells ya how he got hisself such a dang fool name like "Bat Man"! Praise Jesus! Best Regards, The Semi-Retarded Dirt Farmer Somewhere In Bumfuck, Oklahoma That Is The Target Audience For Every Warner Brothers Movie Since 1983

  • Obviously the guy's blowing gas, but the fact that he's so keen on the 'Troy' script is promising. Sounds like it'll be fairly good, at least, but I don't think for one second that Troy is "the best script he's ever read." Kevin Feige called Heinsleigh's first Punisher draft "spectacular." There's a limit to hyperbole that the public will accept coming from people so invested in a movie's success. Still, to go that far out on a limb implies that there's something there he likes.

  • April 8, 2003, 6:56 p.m. CST

    Word to Warners

    by eternal76

    Thomas Jefferson once said that there should be a revolution every 5 to 10 years, just so that the government at the time should not stay in power at all times... The same should be said for Warner Bros. We should take up arms, grab them by their wrinkly old balls, rip them out of their armani suits and hang them out of their luxurious office windows until nature takes its sweet sweet course and seperates them from what they have obviously forgotten is their mock manhood, and for that split second before their ass is the last thing that runs through their minds, a final heartbeat, a final passage of warm blood courses through their veins, and a flash of memories run thorugh their small once flickering with thought brains, and remember a time when, in their childhood, they saw a man in red and blue, and believed that truth, justice, and the american way was once possible, and in that same moment, they recollect when they saw a man in black and blue, who believed he was vengeance, who believed he was the night, and when they slept warmly in their snug beds, they believed that that dark avenger and that man of steel were real. And at long last finally realize that, "Oh Shit what have we done!" But of course by then it would be too late, because they would be a miserable stain on the sidewalk. Warner Bros, Fuck off. Leave Superman and Batman alone. You obviously don't know what you're doing. Retire, go play golf, or go play with yourselves either way, just get someone who remembers what you have obviously forgotten to take the reigns. And for God Sakes take Jon Peters off the fucking project, a former hairdresser for Barbara Streisand does not a producer make. Oh yeah, don't like how you're handling the rabbit either. Leave him be too...

  • April 8, 2003, 7:18 p.m. CST

    Midnight Showings

    by Urge to Kill

    So has anybody heard if their are going to be midnight showings of Reloaded like they've done with LOTR and Star Wars?

  • April 8, 2003, 8:01 p.m. CST

    Here's a tip, fellas

    by Ribbons

    OK, maybe our perpetrators are a tad immature here, but former residents of the Facer dot net would not type ICON at the end of an alleged Fett's (who hated the site) musings unless they weren't trying to fool anybody. Some of you still seem to think that JANGO FETT is the real deal. The dude's destroying himself in his own posts, for Pete's sake! Do you really think somebody as defensive as Fett, no matter how foolish you all seem to feel he is, would actually admit to all his own shortcomings when he's been furiously defending them from other people for the last year? I personally think that what they're doing is only amusing to themselves, but if they wanna waste their own time, so be it. Their choice.

  • April 8, 2003, 8:26 p.m. CST

    How to do it right........

    by JoeyVegas

    Re-tell the Superman origin in a 5-7 minute flashback in the first movie only. Start with Clark/Superman's arrival in Metropolis. Have him fight a Luthor thug and pique Luthor's interest for future films. Set up the Lois/Lana/Clark dynamic. DON'T CAST STARS as Superman/Luthor...let them develop over 3 pictures...DON'T let anyone (except MAYBE Lana) know that Clark is "S"...have Luthor become increasingly pissed off and increasingly more vile... Jor-El appears in dreams or in video form as pre-recorded messages at the Fortress of Solitude ONLY...Krypton is GONE (unless you introduce the city of Kandor for a Supergirl flick)...Lois hates Clark at first & gradually warms up to him...Luthor is younger than/same age as "S" (nobody wants to see a geriatric Lex)...Misty is Luthor's bodyguard & she KICKS ASS...Clark stays in contact with the Kents & maybe goes to Smallville once or twice...introduce another DC superhero in hopes of future alliance or another movie franchise in movie #2...leave Batman out of it, they don't belong together!!!!...have "S" wonder if he is the world's savior & turn his back on all humans but the Kents, Lana, & Lois as the big conflict in the film...TELL JON PETERS TO FUCK OFF!!!!!!...use Kevin Smith's script(without the Jon Peters input!) for the third movie!!! Money in the bank!!

  • April 8, 2003, 8:51 p.m. CST

    I love the matrix... BUT

    by MaulRat

    It spawned so many clones, some subtle some not so subtle.. (It also proves geeks and fanboys make the best movies). You have to wonder wether these new Matrix style movies are as good as the hype, and if they are, you have to wonder if the new movies will prove to be the end of modern cinema as we know it. If everyone everywhere from May 15th on will be saying "Its not bad, but its no 'RELOADED'" to every other film from then on. I think it was Joel silver who said that "The bar has been raised so high, that there is no bar" (cute referrence to the original material too hardy frikkin har). I for one hope it's good, but not the be all end all of cinema.. Mr Silver.. I hope for your studios sake alone, that you're wrong. As for Superman and Batman, get them made... FAST.. interest is waning already, and make them all at once with all the same people, not having to relive all the same roles year later and not have that magic that earned them a sequel... for continuity's sake guys spend the money and do it right.. people don't want bright lights and shiny things, eye candy is great but if it doesn't have a story its shite, thats why the Matrix was such a success, great eye candy WITH A STORY.. People go to the movies because they want to be entertained, and nothing entertains more that 'a good yarn', a story that makes you listen to it.

  • April 8, 2003, 9:48 p.m. CST

    I believe you Torbin!


    Need something to believe in... Go Troy!

  • April 8, 2003, 10:07 p.m. CST


    by Ribbons


  • April 8, 2003, 11:31 p.m. CST

    Back stories...

    by Dru

    I've been slogging through that fucking TB for an hour now, so I feel I have to say my piece as well. + it's simply this: just because you know the origins of these characters doesn't mean that everyone else does. I think that these movies are about introducing a new generation to old school super-heroes, the fuckin' GODFATHERS of the super-hero world. + yeah, if they're gonna pull that off, then they NEED to tell the origin stories. So stop whining + realize that these movies aren't for you- they are for your nephews + nieces, your kids, + their classmates. Out.

  • April 8, 2003, 11:41 p.m. CST

    We need a black Batman..

    by Chimmythechimp

    with a jive -talkin Alfred, (which Bats rescued from the streets)..Robin would still be Cris O DOnnell (to preserve some continuty)who will act like he is a troubled teen with "high school problems". (Everyone will ignore the his is now older than the actor playing Batman, just like in X2 Nightcrawler/Rebecca R. Stamos).the Batsuit will be rubber again, but it won't be skin tight to preserve his "street cred"..The an effort to "one up" the previous incantations of the Batmobile, will have 6 wheels and double the afterburners of the Batman and Robin car...It have more glowing lights on it to "scare the criminals"...Yes, I work for WB?!? Why do you ask?!?!

  • April 9, 2003, 2:18 a.m. CST

    Batman Forever is the only decent Batman flick to date!

    by DannyParker

    I find it quite bizarre that those fucking horrible Burton movies are so passionately revered by fan-boys. Wake up and smell the coffee..they are shite!

  • April 9, 2003, 2:34 a.m. CST


    by Angel_Deus_Ex

    The point of talkback has always been a meeting of the minds on the topic at hand. In order to read what other people think of this Warner Bros article I had to wade through post upon post of immaturity. You have each others email addresses just argue among yourselves. I normally dont post to the talkback as I never have anything to say but in this case I think it is unfair that you waste everyones time with this. The Jango Fett had some very interesting point with relation to the Batman vs Superman fight and laid them out in a very logicla manor. He had a right to be heard. I was enjoying this talkback until the all out war occured. Please just email each other in future. JANGO, it takes a man of strong character to stand in the face of character assassination and thwart with maturity. If you dont react when provoked the antagonist usually gets bored. Its just not fun anymore. good luck! I apologise if I have offended anyone with my slight rant.

  • April 9, 2003, 2:34 a.m. CST


    by Angel_Deus_Ex

    The point of talkback has always been a meeting of the minds on the topic at hand. In order to read what other people think of this Warner Bros article I had to wade through post upon post of immaturity. You have each others email addresses just argue among yourselves. I normally dont post to the talkback as I never have anything to say but in this case I think it is unfair that you waste everyones time with this. The Jango Fett had some very interesting point with relation to the Batman vs Superman fight and laid them out in a very logicla manor. He had a right to be heard. I was enjoying this talkback until the all out war occured. Please just email each other in future. JANGO, it takes a man of strong character to stand in the face of character assassination and thwart with maturity. If you dont react when provoked the antagonist usually gets bored. Its just not fun anymore. good luck! I apologise if I have offended anyone with my slight rant.

  • April 9, 2003, 2:43 a.m. CST

    Superman would be a terrorist according to George Bush

    by TheGinger Twit

    If he is an America citizen fighting for truth, justice and the american way, then he would have to help Bush track down first Usama, then saddam. If he didn't then he would effectely be aiding them. But I'm sure Superman would argue that there's just not enough evidence that has lead America into these 'Wars/Massacres'. As for who would win in a fight between Batman and Superman. Well, Superman can turn back the world and abort Bruce wayne before he's even born... but then, Batman would have his 'anti-superman turn back the world spray'. This film will be the greatest thing since kirk met Picard. Boy did that just make the Star Trek franchise rise higher than it had ever been.

  • April 9, 2003, 3:34 a.m. CST

    Troy script

    by danacar

    I don't know where all these ppl are coming from re: how brilliant the Troy script is. I thought it was pretty ordinary -- especially considering the material/resources available to adapt the story. The characters were cardboard cutouts (eg. Hector as 'family man' -- must show him with wife and child at all possible times; Achilles as 'sexed up psycho warrior' -- must show him pre- or post-coital at all possible times unless involved in bloody, over-the-top combat; Odysseus as 'fisherman king' -- must show him catching fish at all possible times; blah blah blah), the dialogue was so awful I blushed with embarassment, and in the end you didn't really care what happened to either Achilles or Hector...and hated stupid Paris and stupid Helen. Only good moment that really stuck out for me was when Paris went in to fight Menelaus (?). Such a shame -- so much potential. They've Hollywoodised Homer.

  • April 9, 2003, 5:16 a.m. CST

    I have a suggestion

    by Heleno

    Perhaps all the Fetts could get a room of their own and fight it out there in peace and quiet. Now wouldn't that be nice.

  • April 9, 2003, 8:06 a.m. CST

    Jango Fett is the sexiest tomboy beanpole on the planet

    by earthworm

    He isn't really, just thought this was one of the more entertaining Fett TBs.

  • April 9, 2003, 9:11 a.m. CST

    I for one would like to see a Supergirl flick

    by silentbobafett2

    Cos I would flick off to that. Well no, I wouldn't cos I'm not a woman. But I am in lvoe with Miss Slater. But she is to old now, maybe, maybe, Gellar? Orrrrrrrrr *thinking* rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr KYLIE MINOGUE!!!!!1 She is old but I OWULD LOVE to be rescued by her in the TIGHTEST EVER MUTHA FUCKING SUIT INT EH WORLD... Ohhhhh gotta wank.... over and out...

  • April 9, 2003, 9:53 a.m. CST

    What is the nature of this unholy coupling between WB and DC?

    by White_Noise

    I'm sorry, I should probably know this. Does WB own DC? You'd have to think that DC is writhing in agony watching the success of the Marvel properties lately. Obviously, they can't shop their characters around. Is there a chance that DC might ever crawl out from under the blighted shadow of Warner?

  • April 9, 2003, 9:57 a.m. CST

    superman v. batman, that's a quick movie

    by nickg

    so i figure it's time for my two cents. i've never posted here before but i've read the articles and etc. anyway on the subject of the new batman, superman movies. I think WB's big thing is, that it's been so long since an origin movie has been made (for DC characters) they feel the need to make another, i mean yeah a quick 5-10 min spiel in the front of the movie would be good, Daredevil comic does a quick summery, a quick few scenes would be great. also for Superman the first movie was the best comic movie, yes the origin story worked for it then, but remember most of these characters have had new origin's thanks to DC and the Crisis in the mid 80's even Supes got a new origin, i'm by no means condoning an origin movie, but i'm saying that a quick synopsis is in order for whatever movie they make. as for batman, making him a thief and then hiring alfred, is definetly a change from the comic, alfred has always been by Bruce's side, his parents hired Al who knows when. the biggest thing about the two of them is, not that Superman is stupid, he's actually quite smart, Clark just thinks more with his heart, don't ever threaten the lives of anyone in his town, Bruce is the same way, but in a different manner, Bruce has to be, HAS TO BE the quick and smart thinker that he is because he is only mortal and he knows that, both will not kill people unless it's neccesary and even then they don't like it, Clark looses it and flees to space, Bruce just questions whether or not he's fit for Batman. I'm all for a new Superman movie and a new Batman movie. If they want to do a Batman origin they should let Frank Miller and Darren Aronofsky do Batman: Year One, a new Superman origin should not be done. The Superman movie would have to be something different, something new, while still maintaining all that Supes is and stands for. And one more thing Jon Peters should not be the Producer for either movie, the guy wouldn't know a comic book if it hit him in the face, neither would Tim Burton, granted the first Batman is great, but i mean come on, Kevin Smith's script is the closest thing to a true comic book translation in a while, at least on the DC side of things. What WB really needs are people that know and love comic books to work on these movies, get Jeph Loeb to write the new movies, Jeph works on Smallville now anyway. I am excited about the new matrix movies can't wait to see em, that and X-Men 2, The League of Extrodinary Gentlemen (connery rocks) and The Hulk (from the director of sense and senseability). later. -Nick G.

  • April 9, 2003, 10:17 a.m. CST

    ABOUT THE FUCKING MOVIE ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

    by madoo14

    I just read through that entire FETT exchange and it was all pretty gay. Seriously, it started almost as a real debate over the validity of fictional characters, so I'm going to try to bring it back there. Fictional characters are made by real people often times in the image of real people. Of course they are not tangible but their characters represent more than just superheroes, they are an embodiment of certain values (e.g. Batman embodies vengance and justice, Superman the law and the "American Way"). They have personalities and traits that have taken years for people to create. This makes them just as real as you or I. Just as any other author, comic book writers breathe life into their characters. This is the point of fiction, not to scrutinize and point out how fake it is, but to be able to let go of reality for a moment. The Batman and Superman franchises have done this exceptionally well which has made them last for so long. Batman is one of the greatest stories ever told (up there with LOTR). It is a little piece of someone's imagination that (like it or not) some people find interesting. Batman and Superman are not just cool superheroes. You might gather that from the movies and cartoons because they are targeted for children. I emplore you to read The Dark Knight Returns! Comic books achieve something that often normal fictional books can't, they put you in the superheroe's head. They give you their perspective of a situation which makes them all the more real. Whether or not you think I am a geek for enjoying fiction and having an imagination doesn't really matter to me so don't expect a long drawn out string of retaliations like FETT. These are two stories that I really enjoy and after seeing LOTR I have seen that a fictional story can be translated to the screen without ruining it. I just want the same for these movies.

  • April 9, 2003, noon CST

    What about...

    by John_Milner

    Bea Arthur as Batman? It's so simple it could work! I mean, the origin being she got tired of the crime rate in her sunny Floridian retirement villa and having the Golden Girls always getting mugged so she trained with Neo from the Matrix for a year and stole the sword of destiny from CTHD and is now kicking ass as the caped crusader! Now having Supes fight her would only make sense as the big S will be played by Sherman Hemsley, he is pissed because the Golden Girls moved out of their retirement vila and into a Deeelux Apartment in the skyy-yyy....

  • April 9, 2003, 12:03 p.m. CST

    please remove the vin deisel man apart ad


    god as if the willard one wasnt annoying enough.

  • April 9, 2003, 12:08 p.m. CST

    I like cock


    in my asshole. Yummy.

  • April 9, 2003, 12:12 p.m. CST

    I just went back and read my own post


    Damn I am a long winded sack of shit. Amazing how Harry can ban people for screwing around but I turn this into psychosis hour and still survive. Man I wish someone would come and fuck me in my ass so I could shut up and be treated like the bitch I am.

  • April 9, 2003, 12:33 p.m. CST


    by mtoast

    Yes, DC Comics Inc. is a tiny little division of AOL/Time-Warner. I think it was back in the late 60s that DC's former parent company acquired Warner Brothers (kinda' backwards, I know). DC was later put under the umbrella of Warner Communications -- which subesquently become part of bigger and bigger conglomerates. There is basically NO hope that DC properties will ever be able to separate themselves from Warner. Warner couldn't care less about the relatively paltry revenue from comic books, but there is much money to be made from licensing and merchandising on many of the characters. There is, however, a glimmer of hope. The rights for a Captain "Shazam" Marvel movie have been farmed through the New Line division of Warner -- which has recently produced a couple of fanboy wet dreams. (something about a ring!) But if a superhero movie starts with that "WB" shield, just run!

  • April 9, 2003, 6:12 p.m. CST

    Oh yeah...about Batman vs. Superman

    by Ribbons

    Obviously the appeal of Batman taking down Superman is representative of the appeal that comics have in the first place. Also, the movie deals with conflict between the two on several levels. However, we all know what we are all going to expect when we lay down our money for those tickets, so I felt it necessary to say this regarding Batman fighting Superman: It's ridiculous. There's no contest. The only reason people put them together in a clash was because they were DC's two biggest icons. I mean, come the fuck on! And please, none of you defer me to Frank Miller. Yes, "Batman beat Superman," hooray. Superman could kill him before he even moved a muscle. I'm not fiercely defensive of comic book characters, wouldn't ever happen. Sorry. Sadly, hardcore comic fans would probably argue otherwise, but this is just a showcase for WB's two heavies. Because people could contrive extremely unlikely settings for the underdog to succeed, that's what we're gonna see.

  • April 9, 2003, 8:33 p.m. CST

    Dougie Houser, success with BATMAN doesn't translate into succes

    by KingKrypton

    Peters' ideas for Superman have been nothing sort of awful, and have repeatedly shown nothing but hatred and contempt for the material (the same goes for the people who've helped him on this project, from Burton to Abrams to McG to Ratner). He thinks Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster's creation is worthless and that he and his goon squad can "improve" on something that already works...ignoring, of course, that his ideas are shit. Further, how the hell could he have helped Stan Lee "create the Bat-villains"? Batman was created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger, and all of the villains in the movies existed in the comics long before Peters ever showed up. Stan Lee, aside from the "Just Imagine" mini-series, has never had any involvement with Batman. As far as BATMAN's success goes, he was working hand in hand with Tim "I share Jon's ideas of what Superman should be" Burton, so he can't really be credited for that film's success (of course, I think all of the Batman films have sucked, but that's beside the point). What you don't seem to understand is that Peters has no respect for the characters or the material; he's solely out for himself. "Lay off Peters," you say? NEVER. We'll continue to give Peters his just desserts as long as we please, and you're smart, you'll do the same.

  • April 9, 2003, 10:34 p.m. CST

    group hug, everybody

    by mr. smith

    and what is this weird shit about all these people assuming each others handles? sometimes imitation can be the most perverse form of flattery.(with a touch of cyberhomoeroticism, not that i've never noticed THAT around here before.) seriously, go get some sun on your skin, breath deaply, meditate, and come back and talk about MOVIES. ("I came here for an argument" - "I'm sorry, this is abuse...")

  • April 10, 2003, 12:05 a.m. CST

    Why the fuck does every movie have to have martial arts?

    by Shepdog

    It's always like Hollywood assholes to ruin a great thing through over use. Why was the original Green Hornet and Kung Fu series pretty cool? Because it really hadn't been done in the U.S. before Bruce Lee came along. Now, every cunt film out of Hollywood has to have martial arts and wire work...Charlie's Angels, The Matrix, The Musketeer, Brotherhood of the Wolf, etc. And now Batman! What happened to punching somebody in the face? I swear, if the new Indiana Jones movie has Indy sidekicking somebody while somersaulting through the air, I might just have to give up citizenship in this country and move to Fiji.

  • April 10, 2003, 9:34 a.m. CST


    by NubtheSquirrel


  • April 11, 2003, 2:15 a.m. CST

    The Kryptonian Council ponders this "Horn" fellow ...

    by Theclownhunter

    Actually in the ol' World War II BATMAN comics, Bruce Wayne (and Dick Grayson, who's already well into his "Robin" career) basically DO hire Alfred ... who was the son of Jarvis Pennyworth, the former Wayne-family butler, when Bruce was a lad. I think Frank Miller or someone changed that and made Alfred the one who powdered baby Bruce Wayne's bottom. In regards to Superman returning to "remnants" of Krypton in the second film ... well, there's Argo City (birthplace of Superman's cousin, Kara ... Supergirl) that's protected by some kind of biosphere and (according to the Salkinds' SUPERGIRL) has been projected into a type of innerspace. And there's also Kandor ... which was preserved in a bottle by Brainiac, in the old comics. Maybe they could say Kandor exists in The Phantom Zone ... sort of an other-dimensional graveyard of relics and refugees. BATMAN TRYING OUT CRIME BEFORE HE BECAME A CAPED CRUSADER OF JUSTICE??? Now that's just kooky-talk!!! That would make "Bats" quite the hypocrite, wouldn't it!??! When he's bustin' punks in the Gotham hood ... he's actually cryin' sour grapes, cuz they're better at crime than he was ... shyeah ... right!!! Then he becomes part of Hollywood's alleged "Gay Mafia" and, in a dramatic sequence, dons the Bat-Nipples. I hate when they try to "remodify" guys like Superman and Batman ... give them a "bad boy" image ... to make all the debutantes of the WB/M-TV generation squeal with their irrational version of acceptance. Like they would know what a hero is! Let them drag their Ritalin-ated butts to another FAST AND THE FURIOUS or XXX, if that's what they're looking for! That's not what Superman and Batman (or Spider-Man) are about. Sorry, they actually ARE nice guys ... who at least TRY to do the RIGHT THING! Despite each of them being screwed-up in their early years ... they are HEROES ... and Bruce Wayne would never turn down that path ... not even for a second! For one thing, it would be a slap in the face to his dead parents. Secondly, he's educated and disciplined to almost inhuman proportions ... he's been striving for that since he was nine. Why would he do that? He'd know better!!! I actually liked Michael Keaton in body-armor. It deviated from the comics a bit (the MODERN ones, anyway) but at least Tim Burton put some thought into it. Sure, Bruce Wayne's definitely got some "toys in the attic," but to MAKE HIM A FORMER CROOK?!!? NOW THAT'S MESSIN' WITH A LEGEND ... BIG TIME!!!

  • April 11, 2003, 10:57 a.m. CST


    by Knight_watch

    BvS? Good ideas, but seriously need some tweeking. Ok I can see some of that, BUT Alfred being hired by Bruce??? NO. Alfred has known Bruce since before Bruce was born. Both Series needs a re-boot and should be done correctly. It would be cool to give some of the actors in the old films a cameo or two (Gene Hackman and Jack stole the show in the movies they were in!) As long as WB keeps the shit simple and don't fuck things up too much. (And keep that pscyho Joel away!) And they keep these two things in Mind. Batman wears the mask of Bruce Wayne, Bruce for all intesive perposes died along with Thomas and Martha Wayne. Superman is Clark Kent unbound, He's everything that's right and does things with a soft touch, while Bats does things hardcore. Neither kill but Batman breaks bones, noses and whatever to get what he wants. IF they keep that in mind they should do good. WB should give Frank Miller, and alot of the good writers from the comics a ring and see what they can suggest. If there is one thing I could suggest aside from the above it would be that there should be a distinct feel to each series which would identify them like Bruce Timm did with the Animated series. Batman's world is the night, dark places and places where there's dark tones. Gotham is old, dark, dank and filthy. Metropolis is new, bright, and clean like Toronto except with the crime rate of New York on a bad day. Banks get robbed, people mugged and super villians get testy.

  • April 11, 2003, 11:51 a.m. CST

    Here we go again...

    by Drcool975

    When will the madness stop? WB really needs to abstain from making, producing, or even discussing any movies involving their characters. After that last Batman movie almost single-handedly razed and desecrated any new ground for superhero movies, WB

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 1:08 a.m. CST

    I was in this class

    by D.Vader

    And I remember the next day when the Professor told the class someone went and told an internet site what his friend Alan Horn had told us, and how it hurt his relationship with the guy, and how the AICN spy put their own name on the website, and how he knew exactly who it was... Man, it was kinda funny. The person who leaked this stood up in class and apologized, saying she didn't realize what she had done was in bad taste. I couldn't help but feel thankful it wasn't me, bc you KNOW I had considered sending this scoop into AICN too! I leave this message now to you, brave, intrepid Internet Historical Researcher who has somehow stumbled upon this old, inconsequential story. Give up on stories. Give up on art. The internet is now the only way you will truly live forever.