Cool News
UPN Passes On_FIREFLY
D’oh!
Surely someone has passed this along to you but just in case, www.timminear.net posted this Thursday:
"[Jan 09, 03] We have received confirmation from a source at 20th Century Fox that UPN has passed on Firefly. Thank you, everyone, for your tremendous support. "
That makes me a:
Sad Panda
To order coffee mugs and boxer shorts adorned with the image of a green, handicapable “24” fanatic, click here.
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I've been putting off having a send off party for the show but its slowly looking more and more grim. I'm more thankful then ever that I taped each episode. Maybe Sci-Fi or bring it to Canada and Space: The Imagination Channel.
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...that:
a.) Firefly is dead
b.) UPN won't be picking up "Farscape" either (if that was ever really an option).
Ah well. -
Firefly repeats coming soon to Sci-Fi Channel (???)
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nuff said.
"We're gonna do a western in space for all the country and western crackers in the USA. We're callin' it Firefly, y'all."
Good riddance. -
I was hoping a troll would show up and crap on everyone's corn flakes. Thanks Tri. It takes a special kind of someone to say things like that.
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This was expected, but sad. "Firefly" just kept getting better and better, and I have no doubt this would have lead to be one of the all time great genre shows. I have never really watched much "Buffy" (though I admit what I've seen has been pretty good), and I have always been a little skeptical of the Joss Whedon hype - his uncredited writes on films like "Speed" and "Twister" that weren't exactly brilliant. But "Firefly" accomplished what I thought was impossible - an original space fantasy that was over similar to "Star Trek" OR "Star Wars", but just did it's own thing. I will really miss this show, and I certainly hope there will be an eventual DVD release.
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Jan 10, 2003 11:57:47 PM CST
For the last time, no one gives a rat's ass about this show.
by dirtyapes
Please stop wasting valuable Coaxial News space on Firefly and concentrate on worthwhile shows like 24, Alias, Gilmore Girls, The Sopranos, and The Simpsons. Firefly was too damn smug w/ itself. I watched one episode, so don't accuse me of not giving it a chance. The viewing public didn't give a damn about Firefly, and neither do I. Keep up the good work though, Herc. You're awesome.
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I thought the characters were awesome and the plot original. I think replacing it with "Fastlane" was an insult, and I hope that show dies a horrible death. If the DVD set ever comes out for Firefly, I'd buy it!
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There is hope!
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This sucks but let us just hope Joss and Tim return to the fold at Buffy and Angel and help create the second half each show's season every bit as good as the first halves. As of this posting it's only about 116 hours away from the first new episode of Angel in nearly two months. Thank goddess for small favors.
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Viacom is Star Trek's biyotch. Poops
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Was that it was too smart for America. You see, America is full of fat, stupid retards who wouldn't know a well written show if it kicked them in the ass. Maybe another sitcom/cop show is what should be shown. They seem to really entertain the slope foreheaded, mouth breathing masses out there and since they're the majority, why not? Am I right? Unfortuantly, yes I am. America likes the easy cookie cutter pap, anything they have to think about is too much for them to handle. Alas, Babylon...
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can eat my ass. Fuck off, you cum guzzling losers. Firefly was great.
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how'd you know I was a troll, Ken?
Is that you staring through my window, y'all?
Hope you like the show - here let me spread for you. Like that hairy ass? Cuz you can kiss it.
Dude, just a show, just electrons reorganized to capture your eyeballs that's all this was designed for. You are the product being sold. Just a demo (demographic).
I agree with above poster, smug to the max, and SENSELESS re: space exploration. R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D Impossible to suspend disbelief, especially as it was TEDIOUS. Clothes, weapons, comm systems, engines, set-up, u-name-it - all had ZERO resonance as a possible scenario.
YOU WERE THE PRODUCT. that's it. -
Sitting at home, picking apart space TV shows, thats sad.
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Should have cancelled Enterprise and put the whole Trek franchise on hiatus for several years. Cancel the new Twilight Zone too--it's crap. Firefly would be way better. Farscape would be way better. Odyssey 5 would be way better. Lots of good scifi all around, no need to show this crap.
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Is a pathetic, lonely, bitter cunt. This is a fact. Deal with it.
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Is just fine by me and the vast majority of human beings.
Funny how y'all resort to personal attacks on us dissenters.
Lara- send photo >;-)
Peace out and flame away lamebrains. I'm done - it's been a blast - almost makes up for the time I wasted on Firefly....
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Now, THAT is pathetic.
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Jan 11, 2003 1:09:25 AM CST
UPN passes on Firefly, I passed on Firefly...the universe is in
by munchinsonton
sup!
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Everybody who stuck with the show saw it seemingly improve ever single episode. Everybody who tuned in for just one of the first couple of episodes thought it was boring and for some reason want to rub salt in the wounds of the people who liked the show because they lost an hour of their life they can never get back or whatever. What it comes down to is if Fox showed the damn pilot first instead of maybe the worst episode of the series (the train one), there would still be a series. Now it's right off for Fox and too pricey for UPN to chance.
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We are all so lucky as to have these folks here to tell us the "facts". Yay. It is so inspiring how TriMister celebrates the death of a show amidst a crowd of hopeful fans. I find it disheartening and sad that dirtyapes overlooks all the fans on this very talkback to "smugly" assert that "nobody gives a rat's ass about this show." dirtyapes' whole post was basically, "Herc, nobody cares about this show, stop wasting our time... but keep up the good work and don't mind me while I smooch your rump." And so much thanks to Lara Means for pointing out the "facts" that Firefly had "boring stories and unlikable characters." It's a shame that most of these assholes and other assholes like them probably have Neilson boxes at home. #### I made a mistake and stayed away from Firefly due to "ratings" and whatnot. I finally saw the previously unaired pilot. I REALLY enjoyed it and kicked myself for not having watched the other episodes. If the other eps were anything like the pilot, I would have been very happy. Too bad. I hope reruns arrive soon. Or, better yet, it'll get picked up by a network that I can actually view. So surprised that UPN turned it down. That would have been perfect. --d
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not gonna get all mushy and pissed off because of it, but I still got a kick out of it.
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throughtout the first season. Why Fox didn't air the very good pilot first is beyond me, but I guess that's why network execs are networks execs.
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This is why Farscape and Firefly are being replaced by such wonderful gems as tremors:the series (gives me tremors just thinking about it...ugh! I mean...rednecks killing things...wish i could go outside to the woods around here and see the same thing...oh wait I can...I mean, Hunter Safety is required in P.E. Class here for crying out loud!!!) and the fastlane(sex and cars...sex and cars...aren't they great...aren't they great...who cares about characters anyways??? I just want sex and cars...sex and cars...)
...rah! -
i have to agree with you... it only took 1 episode for me to get hooked. anyone who disagrees that this show was incredible deserves to have the norwalk virus, and have it all coming out both ends.
screw you guys. -
He has so little in his life. Its sad, really...
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there's still hope. sorta. http:\\www.fireflysupport.com
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I admit that the only reason I gave this show a chance is because of Joss Whedon. Were it not for his name being attached I would not have bothered. The commercials didn't impress me nor any of the other promo material. When I watched "Train Job" I was horribly lost and confused and irrated at the western motif. None of it made sense and I couldn't even get a handle on who the characters were. If it weren't for Joss Whedon I would have given up right then and there. But I decided to give it a chance. I'd watch the first three episodes and see if I got interested. "Bushwhacked" wasn't anything special, but "Our Mrs. Reynolds" sparked my interest for the first time. I started to get a feel for the characters and I found this episode humorous. That was followed by "Jaynestown" which was okay and mildy funny and then "Out of Gas". "Out of Gas" hooked me. This episode was f-ing brilliant television. I loved every second of it. This is followed by "Shindig" where I absolutely fell in love with Kaylee. "Safe" was okay, but then we had the triple threat: "Ariel", "War Stories" and "Objects in Space". All first rate episodes. By this time I was getting really comfortable with the show, involved with the characters even. That's the secret to success for Joss Whedon: compelling characters who move the plot, not vice versa. Then I finally got to see "Serenity". Why for the love of god didn't Fox air this first??? This would have made my introduction into the world of Mal and his crew a lot more palatable. It's only because I respected Whedon that I even stuck around for three episodes. Most people aren't that dedicated and/or don't know who Whedon is. I'm sure they all abandoned ship after "Train Job" or "Bushwhacked". Stupid Fox. They could have had another franchise on their hands, like BUFFY or THE X-FILES. They set this show up for failure. Whedon never stood a chance. I understand why this series never gained an audience. It's introduction to the world was horrible. So it was immediately shunned. For those assholes above who belittle this show as western space exploration tripe you couldn't be more wrong. But I can't really fault you for your opinion. You didn't have a proper introduction into Whedon's brave new universe. I blame Fox. They had a perfectly servicable pilot, scratch that, a perfectly perfect pilot and instead of showing it first to clue the world into what the frilly heck was going on they just dumped us right into the action. They dumped us right in the middle of a new world populated by strangers and we were told to play catch up. Fuck Fox. Fuck them up their stupid asses! It's like showing 24 at episode 3 right off the bat. It's confusing and frustrating and it causes a loss in viewership. Whedon depends on continuity and you guys fucked it all up. Now UPN has passed on the show and I fear there will be no reprieve. I feel sorry for Joss Whedon, Tim Minear and the cast and crew of FIREFLY. They had something special here that could have been really great. Now we'll never know. L8r
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the AMERICAN PUBLIC has only themselfs to Blame for EARTH 2 THE CURRENT TWILLGHT ZONE AND ANDROMEDA
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Anyone remember Brimstone? Or the 'changes' to improve Millenium? Hell, even Strange Luck could have gone a few more years... the only times I can remember FOX fully supporting their new sci-fi shows were Harsh Realm (which they also pulled in a month) and Dark Angel (hooray.) Sliders falls somewhat half-way, they hyped the series arriving then let it die. Even the first season X-Files eps were promoted in a very mediocre way. And all the while, the Simpsons keeps churning out episodes (it was a great show -- in the mid-90s...) ruining its own place in TV history. Oh well, the FOX that giveth also taketh away. It's just not a surprise that another network wouldn't pick up Firefly now that FOX has already driven it into the ground.
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Firefly was literally a sci-fi western, and westerns aren't popular anymore. Westerns just aren't in everyone's taste. I really like Firefly, but in a world where the top shows are reality shows where "real people" humilate themselves for the amusement of the sadistic, voyeuristic masses, or tired sitcoms that recycle the same jokes over and over, and space western never really stood a chance. Besides, Firefly was 3 times as good as UPN's beloved "Enterprise", and I don't think "Enterprise" would've survived the comparisons.
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Jan 11, 2003 5:55:56 AM CST
I don't understand those who hated it, they don't understand me
by no-op
Never have I liked a show as much as this that that my buddies hated. I tried to spread the gospel, had usually like-minded friends who absolutely GROANED ENDLESSLY when I made them watch it. And a few who just absolutely got it after one or two eps. I'll admit that my entry on Bushwacked nearly prevented a return from me. But by 2 I liked it, by 4 I loved it. Really loved it. Enough to replace Farscape with it. Now they are both footnotes. And damn it, Enterprise plays with all the drama and texture of a factory saftey training film. WHY?
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Typical that Fox would promote the hell out of this show by showing awsome clips from the fisrt episode and then not air it. If they aired the original plot maybe, just maybe, the series could've trived. Built a slow fan base. Like most good sci-fi shows over the years. It makes wonder if they started "Fastlane" at like, episode 5 like they did with "Firefly" wouit be as successful? Probably not. But thats an action show. Fox must figure that sci-fi fans will bend easily. Next time, I'm not going to get too excited about a sci-fi show that Fox promotes until I know the show is still around past December. By the way. Does anyone notice that for a show with a name like FASTLANE, they do an awful lot of "slo-motion" shots?
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And they don't shove the western aspect of the show down your damn throat.
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...it's sounding like the network will be gone later this year anyway.
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I mean, if you really didn't like it, why the fuck are you here telling us about it? Grow the fuck up already! *********** Can't say I'm overly surprised UPN didn't go for it--they don't want another show that's set in space because they think between that and a Star Trek show they'd be typecast as a sci-fi net. Of course they ARE a sci-fi net if you look at their other shows. So what if they aren't set in space, every show UPN has is either sci-fi/fantasy related or a rotating door of unremarkable programming for blacks that are usually cancelled before they can generate much interest anyway. With Buffy ending this year, I suspect I will not be watching UPN anymore after May. Unfortunately, they were probably Firefly's last chance because the only other network I could see really giving a shit about it is Sci-Fi, and when they cancelled Farscape for not having good re-run ratings (yeah, can you believe that?) they lost my respect. If even good successful shows will be cancelled, what's the point of watching anything on Sci-Fi? They can't afford to cultivate a hit! Why get into any show they produce if they'll cancel even a success? And to replace it with Tremors and that Dreamteam thing . . . my god, the idiots have really won.
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Jan 11, 2003 9:27:31 AM CST
Firefly could have been about the crew floating around in space
by the outlander
Too many brain-dead viewer at home on a Friday night. Once Buffy and Farscape ends there will be nothing left to watch on television (maybe Angel). Bring on the Firefly DVDs.
P.S. 24 has to be the most overrated show ever. It was good for about the first 6 hours and then it became incredibly unbelievable and badly written like daytime soap opera. -
joss.. make movies... have more control... screw TV! and fuck fox.. fuck them right up their stupid asses!
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Jan 11, 2003 10:18:49 AM CST
Three things I am sure about in regards to Joss Whedon shows.
by xocxoc
Knowing how these things tend to work out, and having the ability to pick out the truth from publicist BS, the following three things are true: 1. This WILL be the final season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, 2. There will NOT be a new slayer spin-off series (at least not in the 2003-04 season), 3. Firefly is Dead. *** The only hope we have for a JW show next season rests in the continuation of Angel which may actually do better without the shadow of Buffy hanging over it. This assumes that David and Charisma sign on for more seasons (since neither have budding movie careers like everyone in the cast of Buffy has, I'd say the chances are good), and WB wants it (WB would be dumb to cancel a show that gets a consistent 4 rating no matter what bad time slot they put it in.)
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Go back and see what I told oh those many months ago, when word of Fox dicking with Joss' pilot first leaked. I told you the show would die an early death as Fox's fiddling demonstrated they hadn't a clue what they'd bought and conversely, Joss didn't understand what Fox wanted. The show wasn't horrid, just not very interesting or original. On a different, more patient Net it might've evolved into something if Joss was willing to trim down his spawling universes and his actors dug into the chars. I swear if it had to be a weekend timeslot, maybe CBS would've been a better spot. At least you know all those viewers are at home. They might've thought it was Gunsmoke II. Now there's a thought..... Bottomline, it's dead and gone, it's not a surprise, and oh, UPN isn't long for the earth either.
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Hey what ever happen to Giles being in "Ripper" for the BBC that should of been out already? Did the popularity of the "Manchild" series get in the way?
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I'll be the first to admit, this show did have its merits, but i mean could they be any more blatant as to the no doubt "inspiration" from the fantastic Cowboy Bebop? I'm sure this show could have amounted to great things once it got going, and it is unfortunate that it didn't get the chance, but Whedon, well he's not the most origonal guy out there. The basic premise for this entire show seems lifted from one of his own screenplays (Alien:Ressurection...i mean come on, how can you just ignore that this man is responsable for that film? it butchered the films!) and he then takes one of his own ideas, and merges it with a hit anim
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I know you think because you thought up that logic that it must be true but you really need to read something before stating so called "facts". The truth is, UPN is having financial problems and may be going out of business. Read this: http://www.nydailynews.com/01-09-2003/business/col/story/49905p-46816c.html
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20th Century Fox is planning to pitch a Firefly miniseries or movie to the Sci-Fi Channel now.
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If you wanted to see where Firefly was heading, just watch the show Outlaw Star.......it clearly seemed to be a template for many of the plot points in Firefly. Throw in some Trigun and Cowboy Bebop for good measure. There's also a new series starting up soon in Japan called Gun Parade March which looks like it should be right up the alley of people who enjoyed Firefly.
Also, Qwerty, I see no reason to blame this all on "stupid Americans". Frankly, Firefly was never targeted at the American public at large anyway. Keep in mind there are 270 million people in the US, and many of them don't even watch TV in general. So just trying to say that "Americans" as a whole are stupid and that's why the show got cancelled is really irrelevant. Simply put, not enough of the people this show WAS targeted at watched it. And there are plenty of intelligent people in America who clearly preferred to either a) watch something else or, god forbid, b) read a book instead, or c) go for a walk, or anything else.
-Tom -
Didn't the sci-fi channel's new head basically explain that they saw the "mission" of the sci-fi channel to get away from stuff set in space, hard sci-fi, etc. and focus more on programming that had new age elements, alien abductions, etc. The current people running the Sci-Fi channel clearly seem to think that the kind of programming they should be airing is stuff like Crossing Over With John Edward, that new Dream Team show where people have their dreams analyzed, and alien abduction programming like their Taken miniseries (which apparently got excellent ratings, so I'm sure it will only booster their feelings on the subject). Science fiction shows seem to be less and less important to them, unless they tie into the various new age stuff they think is popular (well, that is popular, I guess).
-Tom -
kill your television...the sleeper...must...awake...
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Since Sci-Fi may be getting away from um sci-fi, they are looking for short transitional programming such as mini-series and made for tv movies. Obviously they aren't going to buy an ongoing series but they are likely to purchase something that will be cheap and short enough to keep it sci-fi until they are no longer sci-fi.
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I watched it twice and nothing was as great as either buffy or angel. The plots wern't that great and the writingdidn't have the dark comedy elements i like from buffy and angel. So can sumone please tell the great thing about Firefly? cause to me it looks like one of those sydicated shows like "Andromeda" or "Mutant x" or "ADventure Inc."
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Jan 11, 2003 3:10:14 PM CST
Qwerty rears his ugly head again, defending the shit-fest known
by trollmaster
Firefly was too smart for America? Querty, I'm sure you use that "too smart" argument to explain why you can't get a date, and why your "manifesto d'arrogance" remains unpublished, too. As for your claim that America being full of fat, stupid retards, it may be true but your comment is just projection, as it's likely that you are a fat, stupid, ARROGANT retard. Firefly was nothing special or original, and self-delusion about how it was just "too good" for people helps fans to avoid any real examination of why their precious little show got a stake through its heart. The Cowboy Bebop ripoff claims are valid, and it's clear that Joss needs to stick to pseudo-horror-comedy aimed at 11-year old girls. "Am I right? Unfortunately, yes I am. Alas, Babylon..."
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At first I didn't like the show at all and I was on this site saying as much. Of course since it was Wheden I stuck in there and when it started getting good it got really good. Most shows have mediocre episodes, sadly for Firefly, they were the first few. If you had stayed and kept watching you would have seen what was so great about it. The writing, directing and acting were all phenomenal. There are several times that I tuned into a show after people kept saying how great it was and thought "what the fuck, what's so great about this?" Of course often in these cases, I would not watch again for years and then start getting into it when I did. I originally gave up on Buffy in the beginning, Twin Peaks, X-Files, Farscape, and many others that took me years to realize they were actually good shows and then I would have to work to catch up if I was ever able at all. I'm sure you've done the same thing several times and that's what everyone did here. Of course no one will ever get to realize they were wrong years later. Much like the show American Gothic, it's all just gonna be something a all group of people loved dearly for a short period of time and lost.
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Putting Firefly on Fx network is actually a good idea. They would promote the hell out of it just like they do with the Shield. And that is why it died an early death on Fox. There was zero promotion for it. Firefly is great show. I'll be the first to admit that it started off slow. But it became progressively more interesting each week and by the time it got axed by Fox i was hooked on it. This show just needs some more time to find the audience it deserves.
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I'm sure part of the reason Firefly isn't getting picked up by Sci-Fi or UPN is that its really, really expensive to produce. All of the stuff on UPN (save Buffy and Enterprise) is done on a shoe-string budget, so it doesn't have to get giagantic ratings to be profitable.
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Firefly's gone, but shows like "John Doe" live on? That show is nothing but scooby doo cartoon plots without the dog or the humor.
Fox Sucks. All they have left to kill are the Simpsons, and then their network will be utterly devoid of any entertainment whatsoever.
Bastards!!!
Firefly really grew on you quick, and was INTELLIGENT STORYTELLING!
I am furious that it is dead.
There really is no accounting for taste.
So sad....
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Jan 11, 2003 6:06:42 PM CST
Sephiroth989, Tom Handy, and my favorite beyotch TrollMaster
by qwerty uiop
Sephiroth989: "but i hope that no one claims the show was geniously origonal." I know, I for one, will never claim so, mostly because I don't know what: "geniously origonal" means. ** Tom Handy, you must be the most out of touch naive person in the world if you actually believe most Americans don't watch much TV. Myself, I watch three or four shows regularly a week, and I know I watch MUCH less TV than the average person. America is a TV culture, pure and simple. And as a result, slow, stupid, and uninspired. Sorry to break the news to you. ** I don't know what you're talking about, Troll master I get plenty of dates. My left hand (Charlene), my right hand (Marlene) and my favorite stuffed Teddy Bear (Teddy, naturally). I wouldn't pick him up though, if I were you, he
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Thats something I just don't understand. Like being a Dark Angel fan, I guess it takes all kinds...
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Jan 11, 2003 6:45:18 PM CST
All is NOT lost!!! Fight UPN!!! Boycott ENTERPRISE!!! Demand qua
by bjc0410
UPN could have two solid nights.
I sent this letter to the director of programming:
"As you may or may not know the TV show FIREFLY has been canceled on Fox. Firefly is written by the same people who brought us Buffy. It one of my Favorite shows.
Firefly would be a tremendous benefit to UPN. It has critical praise and it would fit perfectly in the vacant slot after Buffy. It will build and has built a loyal fan base. It is a sci- fi western with both comedic and dramatic elements. It is far superior to Enterprise. However, it will benefit Enterprise to have this show on the roster. Sci-fi fans are starving right now with the cancellation of Farscape and the Lack of quality sci -fi on TV. UPN will become a powerhouse if you team Buffy and twilight zone on Tuesdays and firefly and Enterprise one Wednesdays. Enterprise fans will watch enterprise and Firefly. Firefly fans will watch both as well. I hope you take this into consideration."******************** We the fans can fight back at UPN my next letter to UPN will be a boycott of Enterprise. If enough fans e-mail and write letters... Firefly will return!!!
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Hey remember when roswell amost got canned and those fans sent in Tabasco sauce? and remember the floods of letters after X-files was suffering in the ratings when it was airing on friday nights on FOX? hmmmmmmm... what could we send in?
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thank god does this mean that Fox had funding to finish Dark Angel? At least that was a decent programe unlike the crappy replacement. And don't get me wrong buffy and Angel are very good but firefly was crap much like Whedon's original script to Alien resurrection. Stick to what you do best and don't screw around in Babylon 5 terrain.
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Jan 11, 2003 8:11:39 PM CST
McCormic feels as though his powers of prophcy are waining. . .
by mccormic
(none)
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Buffy has been huge for them (reletively speaking) and they would give it the advertising they need. I mean, they put on Shield and Son of the Beach ads constantly (both of which are shows I enjoy for very different reasons) and they really push their original programming. They strive more for fare that will not appeal to everyone, but is quality. The shorter season would help reign in cost. Though I'd heard after the pilot, the episodes weren't costing nearly as much because most of the cost was in the sets and design. And even then, they could talk to the Farscape guys about ways to get great looking stuff on a budget. It's not like they have much to do. *crosses fingers in hope the last few eps do very well and force Sci-Fi to take another look at the other great space show on TV.* So with FX you've got a built in audience, it stays within the company AND it would get the kind of attention it needs... Makes all kinds of sense, doesn't it? Now as far as Sci-Fi is concerned... First of all, watch the Tremors bashing. ;) I love the first film to death and the other two were both very entertaining in the old "monster movie" mold. I'll give the series a shot. However, their "new age" bullshit programming that's infected the network lately has been horrible. This is the kind of cheap crap I thought the network was trying to put behind them. What's next? A return of the horrible '70s reruns that populated the network in the early years of its existance. After cancelling Farscape I think Tremors is about the only thing I'm even interested in anymore. Stargate's gone downhill, after all. Lexx... well, I never got into it, but at least it was original. Sci-Fi is painting the floor and the corner is near. Even if they did pick up Firefly, they'd probably say they were going to pick it up for two seasons and cancel it.
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it's a good show that deserves somewhere to stretch its wings. i hope they don't give up.
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While I didnt think Firefly was a great show, I think it showed a lot of potential. I watched several of the episodes and the show was showing steady improvement but it could not recover from FOX playing all the episodes out of order. Its to bad but i wont miss it much.
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Boy, yet another novel interesting series Fox dumps all over. Swithin-- you forgot "Space: Above and Beyond", that was a good show too. How can FOX let MANTIS air longer than Firefly? Christ, they killed VR5 and Profitt, too. Ugh. Oh well, at least we have 24.
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From: Qwerty Uiop
Subject: The reason Firefly failed
Comment: Was that it was too smart for America. You see, America is full of fat, stupid retards who wouldn't know a well written show if it kicked them in the ass. Maybe another sitcom/cop show is what should be shown. They seem to really entertain the slope foreheaded, mouth breathing masses out there and since they're the majority, why not? Am I right? Unfortuantly, yes I am. America likes the easy cookie cutter pap, anything they have to think about is too much for them to handle. Alas, Babylon...
I cant agree more. all america wants is stupid reality shows that you can watch at anytime and dont have to pay any attention to. quite sad cause i used to believe a writer could actually express oneself with the time a tv show has. apparently not. and for any of you jack asses that have to post negative comments about a show, why do you bother. at least us that enjoy the shows can show support by commenting. -
Can't decide if it's good that an animated series is so well recognized, or bad that Firefly is being compared against it instead of alongside. Something else that may have hurt Firefly: introducing too many central characters at the onset. I have to agree that mainstream Joe-viewer may not be capable of keeping track of --count 'em-- EIGHT critical players on one freighter. Even Enterprise, a large 100+crew starship, had only 7 main cast members, and succeeded in making only 2 or 3 interesting at any given time. The twist is that Firefly's cast kept each and every character's personalities a spice to anticipate in even the slightest side-comments or appearance. But only die-hard viewers were going to focus long enough to keep track. The sci-fi genre is taken so lightly in regards to drama or delivery, compared to "gritty drama" shows like West Wing or ER, which are nothing BUT human interaction (notice I didn't imply 'realism'). Most sci-fi is reduced to visual fluff. 80% of it (even Farscape to a degree, I must admit) openly says "yes, we KNOW what this show looks like, so please bear with our self-awareness". All I can say about "Enterprise" and the Trek series is that they were NEVER about acting or realism, but presenting ideas and ideals; following Roddenberry's *idea* of explorers in space, with a set of *ideals* to promote. Of course, at the core that was only morality propaganda, and without a down-to-earth cast to support it, that's pretty dry and repetitious. Firefly certainly had its flux of ideals, and the writers interpreted them for a modern, less-forgiving and far more cynical media generation (with cowboy boots, no less!) But the real gem was that the actors totally supported their characters and settings, and made a show worth rooting for. Rarely have I seen a sci-fi show where the entire main cast had complete and utter conviction in both range and depth of their portrayals and motivations, despite an entirely artificial backdrop. If there was ANY reason for comparison to Cowboy Bebop (NOT Outlaw Star, not by a lightyear), it was for the extent of that conviction and the persistence of the cast.
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You know, I was just saying the other night how incredible it is that the BOP people were able to fuck up that show. It could have been good so easy. And it was so, so very bad.
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WB is owned by Warner Brothers, while FOX is owned by 20th Century Fox. This is important because 20th Century Fox is also Mutant Enemy's parent company. In light of this news, I have also stopped watching "Enterprise". Okay, I'm full of crap. I was going to quit anyways.
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I respect anyone's right to like/dislike something, but this attacking and gloating is churlish. At the very least, despite it's quality, Firefly offered network TV a different look at the scifi genre. No Star Trek. No Star Wars. It was its own show with its own rules in its own universe. Low tech weapons, costumes that are familiar, cargo as simple as cattle-- this glimpse of the future was not too outlandish. And bashing its science is silly, particularly when it is one of the few shows set aboard a spaceship that recognizes that there are no sounds in space, no matter how big the explosion!**** And fuck SciFi. They are the only station I loathe more than FOX, and they won't pay for Firefly after dumping Farscape for cost issues. Fuck them to hell! AD out
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if only they'd stuck to the source material... I mean i remeber in the comic how awesome it was when black canary never met oracle unti l that gang went after her... there were truly great potential moments that show could have had. They could have had it tie into the ongoing comic too...
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Yes, it was totally the producers' fault. The entire show from the start gave off this vibe where geeks and fans of the Batman mythos were simply NOT invited to watch. Imagine somebody starting a new nightclub, restaurant or bar, and that person actively working to prevent a certain clientele from being patrons (this happens in real life), regardless of whether these customers have money and are well-behaved. That's exactly the "fuck you; we don't want your business" attitude that the producers of BOP demonstrated. This disdain for BOP's source was everywhere in the show, both subtlely and blatantly. In the later episodes, the producers tried to court more of the comic book fanbase (yes, I also am keeping up with what's left of the show, but only because I've seen all the episodes so far and I know it's going to be over soon), but it was way, way too little and much too late. So I say to the producers of BOP: You got what you deserved.
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Firefly was awsome, and fortunately I taped every episode, so I'll be able to enjoy them and think about what might have been. I wasn't counting on UPN picking it up, because standing next to Enterprise, Firefly would completely teared down Paramount's big Franchise. The same thing happened on the big screen last year, Nemesis vs. Two Towers? Nemesis couldn't even beat J.Lo. Firefly actually made me realize how mediocre Enterprise had gotten. It's suffering from Voyager syndrom, strong pilot: slow decent into repitition and boredom. Firefly came out of the gate with a really fresh take on the space ship genre. I have to admit that I got hooked right away with "The Train Job", but the show got better and better. "Serenity" and Objects in Space" were television masterpieces, let alone quality sci-fi. Speaking of Sci-Fi, don't expect them to pick up Firefly, and even if they do, don't expect it to be any good. Remember how crappy Sliders looked after it moved to Sci-Fi.
Rest In Peace Serenity, thanks for the memories. -
That was my biggest fear when I heard about the show. A bunch of mercenaries in a horrible future. Firefly dodged the biggest problem of Alien Resurrection (and I'm not talking the Alien baby crap), the characters were likeable. Most of them had a very subtle style of humor and their interactions where what made the show great. The problem with that is this is a Sci-Fi show and Fox and most of the people ripping on it seem to want explosions and laser fights primarily. It took a couple of episodes for the characters to be developed enough for them to be interesting. Skipping the premier crippled the show since essentially the foundation of everything wasn't there. For people who were expecting Buffy and Angel... it was there. Angel and Buffy both started slowly as well. They both kicked it up a notch around the middle of their first seasons as did Firefly. If everybody based their feelings of those two shows on the Praying Mantis teacher episode of Buffy and any of the crappy Angel investigates a crime with Kate the depressed Scully Cop, those shows would be dead too. I think that is why Whedon doesn't do well with movies. He needs more than two hours to develop the characters. I mean, the whole point of his and his staff's writing is real people we can relate to in absurd situations used symbolically. If the people aren't real to the viewer yet, it falls flat. That's why the first two episodes sucked, but everything after the crew was interogated by the Alliance (the scene I felt showcased the characters the best) got better and better.
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I think that the delayed pilot, "Serenity," which looks like the closest we'll get to a Joss Whedon film for a while longer, got an excellent grip on its characters immediately. The problem with the two subsequent episodes, "The Train Job" and "Bushwhacked," might be that "Serenity" is completely stand-alone. Oh, sure, there are plot lines that are unresolved (mostly River), but the episode isn't about any particular plot, but about the lives of several disparate characters. A continuation is possible with any or all of them, but one isn't NECESSARY. Because of that quality, I think Whedon and Minear might have been unsure exactly where to go and what to do right after the pilot. *** This is a little elaborate, I realize, for a post that isn't even really on topic, but I just want to make it clear that, yeah, the Great and Powerful Joss CAN establish characters in two hours or fewer.
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Jan 13, 2003 8:50:32 AM CST
The only good thing about this show was Jayne, thats pathetic!!
by bannthisucommies
When the only character on the show that resembles a man in any fashion is a bit character. Have Jayne slaughter the crew and start over. Why must all the men in Jossverse be so fucking effeminate? Mal is a tough guy? Mal? Are you kidding me? Hes like the kid brother of the INside Schwartz guy.
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http:\\www.fireflysupport.com
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Why did my VCR break down for the last 2 episodes + pilot???? Filthy Fox thieves, they stole the precious show from us, gollum, gollum.
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I don't understand two things. First, how did you manage to see Jayne, who figures prominently in nearly every episode, as a "bit player"? Secondly, what exactly is it about Mal that doesn't activate your homoerotic lust? I myself don't swing that way, but as I understand it, he has tight pants. Also, since your lusts seem to be primarily sadism-driven -- killing, shooting, etc., which is what Jayne does best -- keep in kind that Mal also shoots people. And hits them.
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...just too damn bad. I liked this show. Did its own thing. Good prodcution values, good writing, good cast. Shitty network. Of course UPN wouldn't take it. How would they promo it? "Tonight after our space show that sucks ass and is already repeating stories, one that doesn't! Tune it a 9:00 for Firefly!"
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...is based not only her decisiveness and Lara's ability to get the right answer in style and with irony. That's "her thing", as I'm sure she herself would say. I look at her posts and say,"..yep. Lara Means- Once again has provided concise information laced with crafty editorial. The Millennium Group treatin' you better these days, btw? When last I saw you, you were rolling dice over and over while getting an earful of Patty Smyth's "Johnny" If you get a minnit, tell me why they still fuck with Frank. Can they do anything about what our CEO-run goverment is doing to America?? Expose the largest of many acts of treachery and treason, perhaps? Its a tall order, but I think you can be depended upon!
Now, and not by you, Lara....I will be flamed. Thank you for your time.
Soylent green is people.
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I watched 3 episodes and lost interest. Not quite as involving as B5 or Farscape.
If it were better, I would be joining the fight but its dead kids.
Now Josh can go back and spend some time on Buffy and Angel. -
Sc--Fi passed too. http:\\fireflysupport.com
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Jan 14, 2003 11:45:46 PM CST
wow fox is smart... look what we have for wednesday night progra
by bjc0410
Man vs. Beast... a reality program featuring a sumo wrestler tug o' warring an orangutan and midgets pulling a plane vs and elephant pulling a plane... what's sad is that I'm not kidding.... sigh... gee good quality shows vs sensationalistic crap... assholes running that network that's why it's only had three hits in the last five years. two real ones(24, simpsons) and one flash in the pan(american Idol)
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The show had its moments, and a couple of excellent episodes. My wife loved it, but I could never really lose myself in it. I do think it was better than a lot of what's on TV nowadays, but that's not an argument for Firefly, it's an argument against TV. ***** I think the problem is that Joss really doesn't know how to handle leading male characters. The other characters were okay, but I couldn't stand the captain. I can't stand Angel, either. The actors are partly to blame for that, but then, they didn't cast themselves...
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