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New THE TWO TOWERS Trailer Hits! Dear God In His Heavenly Perch Do I Need To See This Sucker Now!
Harry here... Tonight old friends came to Geek Headquarters... It was a meeting of the Kings of AICN -- Harry, Moriarty and Hercules the Strong. Moriarty brought the woman in green and Harry Lime, Herc brought Pizza. Before the night was over, Johnny Wad stumbled into the top secret get together and we sat in the screening room here at AICN and we watched the greatest geek film of our lives... The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK in widescreen perfection from my mint stunning I.B. Technicolor print and we understood that indeed this was top of the world, ma!
I screened it because... A) Its the Greatest Geek Sequel Ever. B) There's a serious challenger arriving in theaters this Wednesday. I think it is funny that people like to pit movies against each other as if one could rate the Mona Lisa versus Persistence of Memory. It just isn't reasonable. What wins... Minnie the Moocher or Imagine? Rating this stuff is absurd at best, but fun for a circle jerk talk around a room. Watching EMPIRE STRIKES BACK we just marveled at the soul in Yoda's eyes, the expressions on his face, the way that film played with light and sculpted the most beautiful images to ever grace science fiction. I wanted to watch EMPIRE STRIKES BACK with Hercules and Moriarty and Harry Lime - because we hadn't done that together yet, and its one of those films that causes an instant holy geek bond with anyone whom you sit to watch it with.
For the 3+ hours that we watched it (REEL CHANGES AND DISCUSSION AT EACH BREAK) we were no longer thinking about the time that was slowly ticking till TWO TOWERS this Tuesday night at Midnight. We were all, each of us over 20 years younger and we were remembering a time, much like the time we are in now... A time of great anticipation, where we each know that something special is in a theater near us soon... When film is suddenly the greatest thing in the world and the people you see it with the dearest people you know. Each of us will have a story about the first time we saw THE TWO TOWERS, few of us will have one as great as Yoda1's... but some of you will meet someone new at the theater... at the screening... on your row, or the row behind you. You'll remember the sounds of the theater, that feeling you had at each twist and turn. Will it be the greatest moment of your life? I hope not, life does get better than movies, but movies can be awfully great... especially when shared with those you love. Here's a trailer they have over at TheOneRing.Net that is just one of those things that makes ya giddy. It has Ents, Ring Wraiths on Fell Beasts, Cave Trolls, Gollum and more... It is just amazing. So watch it, or save for another 5 days... Whatever your choice, you win. Damn, I'm dying for this!
Check out this new Trailer we've got posted on TheOneRing.net
Killer scenes...new stuff...very exciting:
Click Here To Push You Into A State Of Weeping, Laughing And A Puddle Of Your Own Piss!
Xoanon
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Dec 13, 2002 2:22:17 AM CST
Remember on the PHANTOM MENACE DVD doco where Frank Oz jokes tha
by cash bailey
And Lucas, the chin-bearded bitch, says "We'll always need you." HAH!!!! Yoda in EMPIRE was one of the most fully-realised 'artificial' performances in film history. Frank Oz (or Irwin Kershner for that matter) didn't need to throw Yoda around like Sonic the fuckin' Hedgehog to thrill an audience
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I hate special effects sequences that take place in the dark, its just a easy way to hide flaws in the CG. I'm sure the FX's for the TTT are amazing, but still I'd like to see a major battle/FX sequence done in full daylight. The trailer was too dark you couldn't see anything.
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i had a feeling PJ was holding back in the Fellowship of The Ring. and this just proves it. so in conclusion, the 2 greatest scenes in Lord of the Rings will be the Battle of Helm's Deep and the Battle for Gondor.
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I can not wait. Can not. Holy shit.
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http://media.ebaumsworld.com/diesel2.wmv
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I caught the tail end of this thing on TV right before I came to this site. I was like.. ooh.. cool. After seeing the entire thing though, all I can say is OH MY F*CKING GOD... next Wednesday cannot come soon enough! Actually, next Tuesday for me cuz I won a pair of free passes to a 10:00pm showing on 12/7 from that AOL contest. Their service may suck but god bless their PR department!WOOHOO
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Dec 13, 2002 2:39:40 AM CST
I pretend that harry is licking my ball when I see the animation
by toob soxx
Does anyone else love how that announcer dude says "adventure"?
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HAHAHHA.. that link was actually pretty funny. The worm.. AHAHAHHAAH
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Check out this clip: http://www.stilemedia.com/?v=shmoo6.mpg
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http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=diesel1.wmv
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superfriend: how can you say that this trailer was too dark. Take a look at the first couple of scenes with the Ents, that huge battle in and the trolls doing work on some walls in Isengard. Those are ALL in full light and looked pretty damn good to me. Also, look at the scence with the wraith on top of the fell beast flying over that city. That was also in full light and looked great. Now, to Qwerty Uiop: AHAHAHHAAH.. I remember that thing from a while back. I'm surprised you still have the link!
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There are trolls in there! Watch it again and you'll see maybe two big trolls with helmets on or something about 13 seconds into the trailer. And yes.. I really have nothing better to do with my time right now... HAH
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Aww man. Well first that trailer is cool, I liked the rhythm of the editing. Oh yeah, and the stuff inside the shots as well, like that guy with the beard. Second of all, the Yoda in Attack of the Clones is approximately four hundred and sixty times better than the Yoda in the Empire Strikes Back. He's much more emotive than that fake rubber thing. Check out the last shot of Yoda on the Clone War battlefield, you know where the camera's tilted up and Yoda's head is big in the right of the frame and there's a clonetrooper looking through goggles on the left. Check out Yoda's expressions. Awesome. Attack of the Clones is better than Empire, it's more epic. Everyone just remembers Empire being better cause they were like six at the time. For example; as if 'Attack of the Clones' is any worse a title than 'The Empire Strikes Back'. Word.
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I remember Empire much more fondly because it was a much better film. Direction, Writing, Acting. Clones doesn't touch Empire, no where close.
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I know you're very excited to see TTT, but geez, analyzing the latest trailer is taking a bit too far. I am loath to see another trailer of TTT - I don't want to spoil the experience by seeing some crucial scenes in the trailer like, uh...that old dude who lives...you know. I'd prefer they leave that spoiler part out of the TTT trailers, tv spots and floating head movie poster. It's like reading the summary of TTT novel revealing the surprises, thereby making reading the full-length second part of the LOTR novel a tad less enjoyable. At least watching that terrible piece of shit animated version of LOTR won't diminish my enjoyment. The best time to go to TTT screening is to go to a theatre that show the film in a farge format around Christmastime with the sold-out audiences. The only one thing is, I hope some parents don't bring in small children (babies to 6 year olds) like the last time I saw FOTR I sat next to a 3-year old girl of an East Indian girl and her parents and she was scared shitless several times throughout the movie (shrieking, covering eyes, burying her head in her mommy's arm). LOTR trilogy is PG-13, for chrissakes.
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... ...does anyone else here occasionally get the impression that this site is run by a fucking idiot? No offense Harry, but just recently I've begun to wonder...
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Sorry, not liking this. Far too typical, but I'm sure I'll love the film. The Requiem music is good but overrated and overplayed now, it's unsuitable to that trailer anyway. The clips are really quick and the battle shots have awe but definitely not the trees or much else. It's not a big deal.
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According to SuperheroHype.com anyway.
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...I love Harry, but, jeeeez!, does he have to be SUCH a fanboy ALL the time? The trailer IS brilliant... shit, I don't know what I'm trying say here, wubba jubba goo goo...
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...you are a motherfucking dickhead... Harry, Ban me if you want, but that link he posted was totally uncalled for, crashed my PC, HARD...
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Thats because he is a fanboy you moron.
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... better clean up your own backyard before you go insulting you superiors... HELP ME TOLKIENOIDS! I FEAR THAT TATOW CONNOT BE FORBORNE FOR ANOTHER SECOND AND I DON"T WANT TO BE BANNED! AAAGGGG! Will these trolls never let me be?!!!! Watch the the fuck out you petulant, limp dicked jerkoff. I shall evicerate you with words!!! Just TRY me....
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is this not a fanboy site afterall?
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...just a little hyper tonight... AAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!! Will December 18th never come?!
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Hehe.. i know the feeling. Just try to keep it civil ok? I hate it when these TB's turn into flame wars.
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Dec 13, 2002 4:29:53 AM CST
Yes Seelbach, I would consider this to be a "fanboy" site...
by skyway moaters
...but the LOTR TBs are usually a cut above. I'm just pretty wigged out, and out of control just now, and I DO apologize ...er, um, Namarie Mellyn. Sorry folks, ol' Skyway is experiencing an emotional meltdown with no other outlet than a crappy ass TB... pretty fucking pathetic huh?
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... sorry for bringing real life stuff into an innocent TB...
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God that was a kewl trailer..cannot wait for the film..but jesus!!!! Every Fucking time we see TWo Towers..some little fucker has to say something about Star Wars like it even touches LOTRs! Get over the gay ass film..Lord of the Rings is the new! It's the kewl! It's the King..besides fucking Titanic being the highest grossing film! OMG Girls suck...more ways than one!
Snoochie Boochies!
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Yeah, someone brought up starwars before, but they never tried to compare it to TTT. Ironically, in defending LotR, you're the first one to actually make the connection. Good job. Now let the rabid fans from both camps argue over which one is best and the Flame Wars commence. Meanwhile, i'll just be here laughing my ass off at how hard you people try to pick one another apart. Seriously, grow up, see that neither series is perfect, and learn to appreciate the strengths in both.
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What are you a dumb ass? Go to all the LOTR talks and reviews and you will see a little fucker saying..Star Wars was a better film like he might get his point to even matter..which it doesn't cause he's in a dilusional world full of raping black man nailing him in his anus!:)
SNoochie Boochies! -
..there are few people in the world more excited than me about seeing this movie, but do you think you could cut back on the bodily fluid references? We get it. You sweat, piss, vomit and jizz. Do you have to mention it every time something has an impact?
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Yes... i know that in EVERY TB someone eventually says that SW is better than LotR or vice versa, but what i am saying is that no one did in THIS specific TB until you came along. Read their posts again. Neither said anything about SW being better than TTT, only that Empire was better or worse than AotC. Therefore, i congradulate you for being the first to ignite the powder keg that is the LotR vs. SW rivalry in this TB.
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I must need my head seeing to. Why did I watch it, I knew it would have spoilers, yet I still watched it...twice!!! I must be insane. I did the same with TPM, the same with AOTC and the same with LOTR. Granted, as it happens, two out of those films werent brilliant, but I wasnt to know that at the time. *sighs* Now I've seen the ents and more of the Helms Deep battle, the flying Nazgul, more of the Balrog, etc, etc. Someone knock me out till Dec 18th so I wont be tempted by any other spoiler-filled treats!!!
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I thought it was a great trailer!!!
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Hence my point is..is that whenever there is a Two Tower review..there is always a gay dumb ass talking about Star Wars..there..does that make you feel better? Cause I know there are dumb asses above my post talking about it like we give a shit about Lucas anymore!
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haha... i know what you mean snake-eyes. I keep telling myself that i'll remain spoiler free, but i just can't do it. I figure, i've already read the book a few times, what more can i do to spoil it? Still, i'm pretty sure that seeing all of those scenes in context on the BIG SCREEN is still going to be a great experience. Until then, whoever knocks out snake, do the same to me so i don't go spoiling anything else!
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Don't get me wrong, I expect Two Towers to be every bit the movie spectacle it's hyped up to be. But EST had one huge advantage: surprise. I already know, quite intimately, the entire story of LOTR, and while Peter Jackson's interpretation may astound me, the events won't impact me the way they did when I read the trilogy for the first time.
Put another way, mindblowing developments like finding out Vader was Luke's father and seeing Han Solo "killed" in carbonite will be absent in LOTR for poor unfortunate souls like me who have read the books 4 times over. -
Ok, ok, if you must defend yourself then go ahead, this'll be my last response to you. Anyway, as i said.. I KNOW someone always brings up SW in here, but i found it funny that you, in your attempt to defend LotR, were the first to actually say one was better than the others. I understand the point you were trying to make, and fully support the notion that most people are tired of dealing with people that start this crap. However, interestingly enough, your first post does bring to light the validity of one of Tolkien's messages in the books, evil is wrought from good intentions. Anyway, focus your energy on poor kicksave, who has just committed TB suicide by actually saying Empire is going to be better than TTT in here, although i do admit that i see the logic behind he argument.
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It seems a bit excessive. either way TTT is going to be great.
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This is a fanboy site run by a number of fanboys and you should know that this is how Harry writes as a fanboy. If people like skyway moaters don
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Maybe because the majority of Harry's article was about watching EMPIRE STRIKES BACK? Is that possible? Basically, what it all comes down to, is that these Lord of the Rings films, however great the last two turn out to be, will not be as beloved TO US as the original Star Wars films (or even the new trilogy, to some of us). I think it's a safe argument that the things you hold dearest to you in childhood...well they may always stand taller in memory than things you experience in adulthood. So yeah, while cinematically Jackson's films may be superior (and that's debatable--I could get into a long argument about how Lucas has a greater gift for frame composition, which can still be seen in certain shots of TPM and AOTC), they aren't likely to have a bigger impact on your life. Doesn't anyone here find it strange that after all this LOTR hype, the AICN dorks sit around and watch EMPIRE together for a bonding experience? Yeah, I'm sure they're going to watch the FOTR Expanded Cut tomorrow, but that's not the point. It all comes back to Star Wars, because that is OUR myth. It was created BY Lucas, FOR the movie screen. LOTR, however great, is an ADAPTATION of an existing CLASSIC. There's a big difference, because there are limits to what Jackson and co. can do the material. Theoretically, the best they can do is live up to what most people imagined when reading Tolkein. There's much more room for failure. As much as people don't like what Lucas has done with HIS property, he's free to take it wherever he wants to go, and always has been. That's what makes Empire more thrilling than Two Towers. It's what makes, for many of us (and some who won't admit it), Star Wars still thrilling as we anticipate the millions of possibilities for Episode III. But hey, why not shit on another film that hasn't even come out yet? It's what seems to give people the most enjoyment here on the transparent perch.
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They're filming some dumb thing up the street here (as always) ...gosh but she was young in SW...
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PLEASE....no more flame-wars!!! Unless you have a sensible point to make, like this for example...****cue sensible point***... I LOVE the Star Wars, the original trilogy, I always have, and I always will. It changed the face of sci-films forever and filled youngsters of that time with wonder and inspiration. EVERYONE wanted to be a charactor from Star Wars. (Personally, I always wanted to be Han Solo as he was so unassailably cool). Then after a lifetime of waiting we were promised a new Star Wars Trilogy!! OMG we all thought...could they pull it off again? Would this generation of kids and young adults be treated in the same way we were at their age? Would we enjoy them as much as the OT? and so on. Sadly, they couldnt, or more specifically, George Lucas couldnt. There is not ONE PERSON HERE that can say, hand on heart that PM and AOTC are in the same league as the OT. That admission in itself proves these new films are a failure...whatever the reasons may be for it. Even ROTJ was better than these new offerings IMO. Simply cos it had more warmth and drama. I remembered being mesmerised as I saw the most evil character ever created gradually find hints of honour and self-sacrifice that had long since been forgotten. When he sacrificed himself to save his son, Luke, it really touched me. Ok the ewoks were a mistake but everything else was still magical like the first two before it. Anyway, my point is, these new films, TPM and AOTC, are bad, really bad, when u compare to the OT, despite the lavish FX and sound, something is missing, something VITAL. I think that is there for all to see. So...then what? Well, at the same time another trilogy is scheduled for release, boasting a story based on the finest works of literature known and using the long-forgotten, but always loved, fantasy genre (willow, dragon slayer and other anonimous 80's fantasy films for example). At last we were promised something new, a fantasy film with all the usual lavish FX....BUT with the critical component that the new Star Wars films appeared to lack....and that is simply a SOUL. Like the SW OT did before them, these LOTR films have soul. When I mean soul I mean this....speaking from my own point of view....when I watch LOTR, I am literally overcome by the warmth it generates. I really care for the characters, I love the use of the english language, and the story/dialogue is incredible. It moves me. I feel bonded to it like the images has been etched into my mind. I still get emotional when I watch it and I must have seen it hundreds of time now. I think the film has everything, action, drama, comedy, romance, tragedy, heroism, good -vs- evil, moody, dark scenes, happy scenes, etc, etc. I could go on, but seriously, I would be crazy to think that the film will have the same impact on everyone. Thats obvious. But again, what I am trying to say is that the LOTR did what the new Star Wars films failed to do....and I wanted those SW films to be GREAT. I was just very disappointed with what I saw. It was just fortunate for me, and many others who were pissed off at this, that LOTR came out because now I dont really care about the new Star wars films!!! I still love the SW OT and now I have these new LOTR films!!! Ahhh....happy times.
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I would never say that Clones is a better film than Empire, but it sure as hell is great. When you see Mace Windu's boots as he walks into the arena battle. People talk so much shit about what's wrong with those films (and I admit there are glaring problems) but there is soooo much good in them, and damn straight that scene during the battle with Yoda looking seriously disturbed sure as hell looked great, but just as great as in Empire when Luke took his weapons into the "Domain of evil it is". Star Wars new and old is fucking great, I think there is just too much going on in the new films for people to soak in the soul of the prequels. I love the prequels and it's even hard for me to fully appreciate what is going on. But what the hell, we're all here for the Two Towers and god damn if that isn't looking to be one of the best films of eternity. Every time I hear that Requiem for a Dream music I think of Aragorn walking through the doors at the end of the preview. Is it possible that this will be the most perfect series of films ever created? Aghh I've said enough, I'll try not to touch my manhood and think about the Two Towers as I attempt to sleep tonight. -Az
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I reckon we'll have to bash eachother over the head with a mallot at the same time. Then put little labels on us which read "Do not disturb till DEC 18TH"!!! hehe
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Kicks ass...yep that's all i have to say.
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I'm tired of reading pointless Star Wars posts in a TTT talk back. For the love of God, we not only have TTT being compared to AOTC in this one, but AOTC being compared to ESB.......
The only thing AOTC has in common with TTT is great special effects......and that is all.....so stop it......stop it right now.......damn you.......damn you all to hell...... -
"Minnie The Moocher" has it all over "Imagine." Cab Calloway is a god!
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superfriend wrote:
I hate special effects sequences that take place in the dark, its just a easy way to hide flaws in the CG. I'm sure the FX's for the TTT are amazing, but still I'd like to see a major battle/FX sequence done in full daylight.** Well in the book the battle of Helm's Deep takes place during the night,while it's raining.Their just sticking to the scene as Tolkien described it.
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Enough of this LOTR v Star Wars crap. The new Star Wars films were the biggest disappointment of my adult life, 'nuff said.
Anyhow, SPOILER AHEAD for those who haven't read the books, I've heard that the film finishes straight after Helm's Deep, but what about Saruman in Isengard when Gandalf and the rest go and see him? That's great stuff in the books. Will it be in the ROTK?
On a seperate note, I read over on the Onering.net that Jackson is NOT going to be making the Hobbit. Says he'd rather let someone else make it and pay 12 dollars in a movie theatre. Am I the only person who is seriously gutted about this? The Hobbit is still my favourite book of all time, and that includes LOTR. -
...what? You never had a bad day? I'm actually one of Harry's staunchest supporters. Don't believe me? Check out my posts to the last T2T TB. And oh, don't ever single me out again, you'll regret it, ask anyone...
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Dec 13, 2002 9:13:33 AM CST
1.) Not to disrespect Star Wars, but once again why is it bein
by jamboreech
Peace peoples, not war. Oh hell, lets just unite the two fanbases and beat up Trekkies.
Just kidding, they're alright too. :) -
I've heard that the film finishes straight after Helm's Deep, but what about Saruman in Isengard when Gandalf and the rest go and see him****Most likely at the begining of ROTK
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Dec 13, 2002 9:24:40 AM CST
Did Anyone Else Here About the Two Ties Chasing The X-Wing Hidde
by jollydwarf
This film is my 'Stifler's Mom' and I'm saving myself. I can't watch this. The rest of you, just keep the Krazy Glue away from your computer desk when you watch this stuff.
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Dec 13, 2002 9:38:42 AM CST
Simpsonite: I don't know what'll happen with the Gandalf/Saruman
by ralph cifaretto
It'll probobly start Return of the King. It seems, to me, a VERY strange decision on Jackson's part. Wouldn't that wonderful scene provide The Two Towers with some satisfying dramatic closure? And shouldn't the audience get to see Saruman answer for his crimes while our blood is still up from witnessing his atrocities? AND, I was hoping the The Two Towers would end with Merry & Pippen being separated, which is one of the cooler developments that ends the book (TTT). Plus, I hope that Return of the King doesn't play like just a series of "wrap-up" scenes, one after another.
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Dec 13, 2002 9:44:49 AM CST
I Typed "Here" and Not "Hear" In My Subject OR... Now I Just Ac
by jollydwarf
Boy, I've been here too long. You guys are rubbing off on me. And go ahead with the "premature" jokes (especially in light of my Fincher reference). Must...read...Ms. DuPont...any review...will do...reinvigorate...intellect....
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Dec 13, 2002 9:46:23 AM CST
Sauron or Lord Darth Sidious...Who's got the higher Midichlorian
by jaguart
Who's got the higher Midichlorian count? If you guessed Sauron, you're wrong. It's Lord Darth Sidious. Because everyone knows that Midichlorians are gay. BTW CGI Gollum could kick CGI Jar Jar's ass.
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It is Friday, Dec. 13th, I suppose. I think it's best to quit posting now. This can only get worse. The Too Towers will rock (that one was intentional)!
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well said. I know I'm boring the hell out of everyone by saying this, but I'm going to anyway: If anyone actually sits down and watches the pure magic that is empire strikes back, I really hope you realise what a fucking travesty the phantom menace and AOTC... they are so different it isnt true. Empire has it all... real drama, real characters, humour, and the best yoda on film. AOTC just makes me cringe. Yoda the sonic hedgehog indeed.
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After seeing the film in NY last night, I am incredibly impressed. You won't find a spoiler here, just a fan of film making gushing with joy at the amazing things this movie accomplishes. For the first time ever, CG is believably life-like. A large majority of the effects are completely seamless. The pace is just about flawless. Just when you're finished being amazed by what you just saw, something else pops onto the screen to take your breath away. These are the king of films I don't mind paying $10 or even $12 to see in a theater. While I understand that tastes may vary as far as story elements, translation of the book, et cetera. However, anyone who walks away from this film without a serious respect for what they've accomplished is not only cynical and jaded, but most likely blind as well.
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This trilogy is one of those films that comes around once a generation.
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makes my penis erect just thinking about treebeard.
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Ralph you're right about Merry and Pippin being good closure, but, thinking about it, I reckon Jackson knows what he's doing. If that's one thing I've learnt from Fellowship, the guy's the mutts nuts. If the scenes appear in ROTK, plus Shelob etc. then you're looking at one magnificent finale. I reckon the world should petition Jackson to make the Hobbit after these fucker's n'all.
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Dec 13, 2002 10:24:34 AM CST
LOTR is great. Star Wars (OS) is great. And that's good enough
by oberon
Some of the new shots (Ents, Ringwraiths) are fantastic, even if they are much too brief...I am gratified to see that most geeks here have reached the sensible consensus: Stars Wars - at least the original trilogy - is great. And so is Jackson's LOTR. And it's mostly a circle jerk to argue which is better. Obviously the new SW trilogy is a disappointment of sorts (and I think like most of us my anticipation these days is always higher for the newest LOTR flick than the newest SW flick), to what degree depending on your point of view, but it does not diminish what Lucas & Co. accomplished in 1976-1983. Without SW there would be no LOTR. I'm just gratified to have a worthy fantasy film successor to SW finally show up. LOTR better or worse? Can't say. It *is* brilliant, and that's enough for me. Sit back and enjoy it. This happens only once a generation.
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"Dear Pallando: I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Peter Jackson. Papa says, 'If you see it in Talkback, it's so.' Please tell me the truth. Is there a Peter Jackson?" --Virginia O'Hanlon *** "Dear Virginia: Your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except what they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be average moviegoers' or geeks', are little. * "In this great universe of ours, the moviegoer is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge. * "Yes, Virginia, there is a Peter Jackson. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! How dreary would be the world if there were no Peter Jackson. It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. * "There would be no geeklike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with which geekhood fills the world would be extinguished. * "Not believe in Peter Jackson! You might as well not believe in Ewoks. You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the theaters on Opening Day to catch Peter Jackson, but even if you did not see Peter Jackson sitting down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Peter Jackson, but that is no sign that there is no Peter Jackson. * "The most real things in the world are those that neither geeks nor average moviegoers can see. Did you ever see Ewoks dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in this world. * "You tear apart the baby's rattle to see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest moviegoer, nor even the united strength of all the strongest moviegoers that ever lived, could tear apart. * "Only faith, poetry, love, romance can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernatural beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding. * "No Peter Jackson? Thank Fran he lives, and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of geekhood."
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I think if you read my post, you'll see that we're pretty much on the right track here. I am SO relieved that there are other people out there that feel the same as me. Hopefully this will encourage more of us to come to this conclusion. LONG LIVE SW OT and its VERY worthy successor LOTR!!!!!!!!!
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I can feel a serious attack of irrationality about this film coming on. And I freeze framed Gollum, and damnit he looks exactly right! Peter Jackson has reached in my head and stolen my thoughts. And as for you Star Warsers, just step back and give thanks that we live in a world with both series. Praise be! Here endeth the lesson.
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I believe there would be some disturbing results if there was a poll about the number of people here that would perform fellatio on Peter Jackson? Very disturbing.
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Grand Digital posted earlier that AOTC Yoda was about 400 times better than ESB Yoda. I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with him there. AOTC Yoda was certainly more mobile, I'll give him that. However, ESB Yoda just plain works. Watch his scenes again. When he's being goofy, pretending to be this weird little dude, he projects that with no problems. When he wants to look menacing, he looks menacing. For me, the clincher is when Yoda turns around to face Luke in his house, revealing himself to be the Jedi master. Look at the pain and wisdom etched on Yoda's face in that one moment, as the firelight crackles across him. We share Luke's sense of astonishment precisely because Yoda was previously just the weird little old alien guy; now, his power and experience are apparent just from his facial expression! Kudos to Frank Oz for the single best Muppet performance ever captured on film.
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I feel exactly the way you do. Which,I guess, is why I've been permanently banned from almost every garden center in my town!
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I believe there would be some predictable results if there was a poll about the number of people anywhere that would perform fellatio on "Bramton1". Very comforting. ...Man, I almost wish I didn't see that commercial. Yet it's impossible think that 30 seconds could possibly spoil the 3-hour experience. But JAYZUS. SWEET Jayzus.
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Well I think I'll involve my self in this debate as well and I gotta agree with Brian T on this one. The puppet yoda in ESB was FAR superior to the AOTC yoda. I watch it even now and I can believe the little guy is real (in a cinematic sense of course) but the Yoda in AOTC, despite all its graces (facial animations, etc) wasnt 'real' to me. I must admit, although I thought it was cool the first time, each subsequent time I see him do his little duel with Dooku with the sabres I think it gets dafter and more painful to watch. I mean.....as if the grand master of all the Jedis would need to resort to a sabre duel. He wouldve simply crushed Dooku where he stood -regardless of Dooku's own skills. You cant tell me that Dooku coulve put up any sort of battle against Yoda. Yoda was already hundreds of years old and was cleary the most powerful Jedi. In fact the more I think of it, the dafter it gets. In fact If I felt really cynical I would summise that this 'sabre duel' was purely a gimmick to lure more punters in to watch it due to the success of TPM's final sabre duel. BAH!!! SW(OT) AND LOTR FOREVER!!!!!!!
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Dec 13, 2002 12:12:01 PM CST
Long is the road and hard out of hell...goddamn I am tired of wa
by aliceinwonderlnd
Anybody check out the amazing disappearing and reappearing Empire review over at their website? That was intriguing. During its absence, the movie gained a star. Hmm. Anyhoo, just to say, even as a registered LOTR crack whore, getting together with your buds to check out ESB seems a reasonable use of time and resources to me. ESB rules. No, really, it does. I love FOTR because it makes me feel like ESB did. Hopefully TTT will also perform this vital geek service for me.
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Though I can't say you picked the best talkback for your re-entry.... Should've waited a few days, for the dust to settle. However, I'm with you on ESB. Went to it every weekend all that summer... and then was so disappointed in all but a few scenes of ROTJ that I was almost ill, though I gritted my teeth and saw it a few more times for those scenes. As for the ones since then... pretty wallpaper, but as to content, barely endurable for one sitting. But now, again, we have a Film That Does Not Fail Us. ***By the by, "Lawrence of Arabia" previously held my #1 spot and "Manchurian Candidate" is high on my B&W classic list. (They really have to be separate lists, don't you think? At least, you can hardly compare great epics with B&W masterpieces, in any serious way.) But for sheer "transports me to another world time after time with the same blissful smile on my face," it is now FOTR, hands-down, and I hope will eventually be all three.
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Dec 13, 2002 1:04:17 PM CST
"That's what makes Empire more thrilling than Two Towers." What
by minderbinder
Just for the record, Walrus you are a genius.
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Dec 13, 2002 1:08:19 PM CST
Said it before, here it is again: Wouldn't NL be smarter holdin
by minderbinder
Seriously, the ads last year were cool because they just showed tiny teases of footage - more obvious shots didn't show up until after release. Why oh why can't the studios leave audiences WANTING MORE? (and just for the record, I've downloaded this but hopefully will resist the temptation to watch it until after I've seen the movie)
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[From the Appendices: Elrond and Aragorn over breakfast :) ] "So you're serious, you're really gonna quit?" "The life? Most definitely." "So if you're quitting the life, what'll you do?" "That's what I've been sitting here contemplating. First, I'm gonna deliver this Gollum to Gandalf. Then, basically, I'm gonna walk the earth." "What do you mean, 'walk the earth'?" "You know, like Beren in The Lay of Luthien. Walk from town to town, meet people, get in adventures." "How long do you intend to 'walk the earth'?" "Until Manwe puts me where he wants me to be." "What if he never does?" "If he takes forever, I'll walk forever." "So you decided to be a Ranger?" "I'll just be Strider, Elrond--no more, no less." "No, Aragorn, you decided to be a Ranger. You're gonna be like one of those pieces of shit out there, who sleep outside, eat what I throw away. They got a word for 'em, they're called Rangers. And without a job, a residence, or legal tender that's what you're gonna be: a fucking Ranger!"
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Why do some people think Empire is a better movie than the original Star Wars? I'm not saying it isn't, but after all, isn't it a matter of taste? If there is some logical basis for this argument, I'm curious as hell.
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Dec 13, 2002 1:33:07 PM CST
Simpsonite: ROTK will certainly be a wild ride - "the voice of S
by ralph cifaretto
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I suppose it does, on some level, boil down to a matter of taste. However, ESB has some things going for it that Star Wars simply doesn't. ESB has a more realistic, mature story line, i.e. the galaxy-spanning Empire handing the Rebellion its ass. It doesn't end with the characters all handing themselves medals; rather, it has a more downbeat, and yet still hopeful, ending. The characters seem more mature and comfortable in their roles. The dialogue is more adult, and funnier (without being inane). The settings (Hoth, Cloud City, Dagobah) are more interesting visually (personal opinion). Vader gets some deepening as a character. We meet Yoda and Boba Fett, who (along with Vader) make up the Holy Trinity of cool Star Wars characters. And finally, it has REALLY interesting plot developments (Han and Leia, Vader and Luke). But that's just one man's opinion.
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I rather see Peter Jackson's "Hobbit" than Joel Shumakers, but assuming a decent filmmaker gets ahold of that material I love to see: David Lynch's "The Hobbit." If he'd had the kind of support on "Dune" that Jackson has had on LOTR...Plus "Wild at Heart" & "The Straight Story" proves he knows how to make a great road movie/journey movie - which the hobbit certainly is.
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Michael Mann's films are pretty heavy, but if he could lighten up, "The Last of the Mohicans" shows what kind of skills he can bring to a fast paced, rugged, muddy feet kind of story. Any other ideas?
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So did Elrond ever have a more suitable husband picked out for Arwen? Was Glorfindel single?
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This was always my take on it. SW was a return to glorious childhood matinees; ESB took this forward into mature adolescence... and just when we were all poised for adulthood and Greek tragedy (the set-up was all there), we were thrown back to kindergarten with the Ewoks (and amazingly flat direction and acting), but just a few intense moments to drive home what we might have had.
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"The Ring...it's getting heavier." "And Leon's getting LARRRRRGER!" Sorry. That's been in my head all day.
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When I was watching Survivor last night I really wasn't expecting something this cool! So I appreciate the link to the blow-by-blow on TORN. *weeping inconsolably* I want to see this movie now now now now NOW!
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You hit the nail on the head with your ROTJ comments. If only the whole movie had had the quality and tenor of the scenes involving Luke, Vader and the Emperor. Those were some truly magical scenes. The final duel between Luke and Vader is still the best SW duel ever, IMHO. Yes, the duels in the NT are more visually interesting, in an acrobatic sense. But the Luke/Vader fight is imbued with the weight of everything we've seen between these two characters before: father v. son, good v. evil, revenge, anger, etc. As those deep male choral voices kick in, and Luke just goes nuts, you know you're watching something great. And then they cut away to fucking Ewoks. Goddamnit. BTW, that was great, Nordling. :)
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Now that's going to be stuck in MY head all day. :) [personal note: finish chewing before reading talkback]
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I was happy with the CGI AOTC Yoda for the most part. It along with Obi-Wan is what carries the movie and makes it watchible (as long as I chapter skip any scene with just Hayden and Natalie) I think Rob Colemen and his team did as good a job as anyone could do and a better job then Frank OZ would do today since he doesn't care anymore to take the time to do it right (kinda like Lucas) which is one reason why the TPM Yoda was lame (the puppet itself was the other reason.) So doing Yoda as full CGI was the right way to go and worked for the film. (Too bad Anakin wasn't CGI.) However there is no question that "The Empire Strikes Back" is the definitive Yoda. That Yoda is not only the original but he's just more, wise, more soulful, more deep. Just like the film. Which is why no matter how good teh CGI animators make him you can't expect the Yoda in AOTC to come close to the Yoda in 'Empire' since AOTC is no where near the film 'Empire' is. One major problem with Yoda in 'Clones' is the fact that he isn't given anything profound to say. There's nothing that compares to "Do or do not. There is no try." and the "Size matters not/ my alley is the Force" speech. In "Clones" Yoda is just going through the motions of being a Jedi Master much like Lucas is just going through the motions of being a writer/director. I actually find it quite laughable that Obi-Wan had to go to Yoda to figure out Kamino had been erased from the Jedi Archives and Yoda does this whole bit of having teh kids solve it, well it's no suprise that a kid could solve it... Now it *is* cool to see Yoda lead an army and I still love his saber duel with Chris Lee but Yoda in "Clones" is just like the film itself, all flash and no substance. But that isn't the fault of the animators, it's because Lucas isn't trying to make a great film like "Empire", he's just rushing through it, amusing himself and his kids and showing of ILM's latest FX technologies. I know I'll get blasted for saying this (but as Yoda would say "Give a shit I do not.") The "Lord of the Rings" is the true modern day successor to "The Empire Strikes Back" and not Lucas' prequel trilogy. LOTR, like 'Empire" (and the OT in general) has a great story, great acting and a real sense of friendship and comradery between the heroes, all the elements that makes the original Star Wars trilogy - (especially ANH and 'Empire') such wonderful and timeless classics. The new Star Wars films only have the spectacle since Lucas would never make a film like "Empire" today. 1/3 of that film is just Mark Hamil and the Yoda puppet on a swamp set with no other FXs. Lucas would cut it way down or add scenes of Luke and Yoda being attacked by CGI creatues every five minutes since it seems rather clear that, like his target audience Lucas suffers from ADD. So while the new films are OK to see for the action, they'll never gain the level of "classics" the way the orginal trilogy did and Peter Jackson's LOTR trilogy is now. So like the other poster said, long live Star Wars: the OT and LOTR. :)
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Bullshit! He probably decided that he was in the critical minority last year, so this time around - he pretended to like it.
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No way did Yoda fill me with happiness in any way..To digitally make Yoda he screwed the character up. His voice was totally off and he did not have the same characteristics as the last Yoda..I don't care if Yoda was 30 years older..god damn midget is 900 years old..he should still be an old hermit who is herrmmmming his way through life...CGI was crappy on him and was a total insult to the character..not to mention his dance with Dooku which is Bull shit and made Yoda look like a flying squirrel. They could have done so much with AOTC but once again the only good person in the film was Obi Wan and maybe Jange Fett for not fucking up to much. Everything else was just horrible. If Jackson gets Gullum to look like he will in this movie..then im crowning him the winner till 2005 and see if Lucas has these 3 years to be reborn and make a fucking good Star Wars film. God CGI is a crime LUCAS!
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That moment when Luke just goes berserk with the lightsaber to that INCREDIBLE choral music.... And then... cut to EWOKS.... As Frodo would say, NOOOOOOOO!
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Worship me.
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I have a close source who tells me that when Ebert and Roeper taped their weekly show today at WLS here in Chicago, they both gave The Two Towers a thumbs up.
Roeper explained that he enjoyed it, but that it did not make him change his mind about not liking FOTR, and he wondered if all of the emphasis on fighting was in the true spirit of Tolkien's work (he commented that since he didn't know the books, he did not know the answer).
Ebert said (when he gave it a thumbs up) that he was really looking forward to the ROTK, and that when all three are completed that they will be a major achievement in the history of motion pictures. They also talked about how TTT was a whisper away from being rated R because of the violence.
On a lighter note, my source tells me that they had trouble pronouncing all of the characters names, especially Eowyn's.
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How the fuck can you compare the 2 movies like that? Who gives a crap if you know the Tolkien Story by now. Tolkien spent his life making those books not to mention the detail within them that Lucas will never comprehend in his films. Star Wars started out a drama which was good..thats why there are a lot of fans out. It felt real and was interesting to see new things that nobody ever saw before. Lucas shined cause he did stuff nobody had thought of yet. Empire revealed a lot..which is why a lot of people probably liked it the best..from Hans carbonite freezing, to meeting Yoda..to seeing the ATAT walkers smake down on Hoth, to Luke coming into his powers and finally manifesting..to Han and Leia flirting with cute one liners from Ford. Problem is..Most people go back and try to assume that it was the best film of all time..when now there is a trilogy that has come about..based off a book that a man had wrote for a lifetime in the trenches of war..and you some how think its even comparable to the world of Middle Earth? This movie blows Star Wars away. It has its own language that is actually spoken by the few who know how to speak elvish, everything down to the clothing was designed from Tolkiens head. The effects are shot with much more love in LOTR, and the director cares about the audiences feelings which Lucas obviously does not anymore. LOTR coming down to everything being saved by so small a thing and so small a person..making the reader or movie watcher feel like anything can be accomplished even by the smallest of people..just makes for a better after tasting film. I love Star Wars but no where does it compare to Tolkiens Trilogy and how Peter Jackson and Weta Workshop have brough Middle Earth to you..no one else would touch it..not even Lucas could have. You have the best movie of the Decade at your finger tips and you try and hold faith to the old thinking it will save grace. Star Wars is not dead..and its not old..but it certainly has lost its mantel after many years finally and you should be happy that finally a Film came along that competes and even beats the Story of the original Star Wars films. Not many films will ever have that chance to bring love to the film like Peter Jackson has..like the 'old' Lucas did. I honestly beleive LOTR is a much better film..better story and has just as much humor as Star Wars..Just because its legal to wear Storm Trooper Helmets and maybe a fake looking Lightsaber..does not make it the better film:) If I could get away with bring my real Narsil sword to the Theater..we'd be sparing all day! And you'd see all the little kiddoes dressed up like Hobbits!
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Very very funny. Question: Did they decide to include the feet washing scene just before the Uruk-hai nail Merry and Pippen to the cross? Just Wondering. -JAG
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I've been looking for this freaking track for a while. I had no idea that it was actually created specifically for the trailer, which explains why it was damn near impossible to find it on-line. Thanks again.
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Two Towers can't wait. But on the subject of ROTJ. What would have really been cool is if Lucas would have gone with Wookies instead of the lightweight Ewoks. Can you imagine and army of Wookies tearing emperial arms out of their sockets.... cool!
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The first director that springs to mind for the project (other than the ideal Jackson) is Guillermo del Toro. I DO think that "Blade II" sucked horribly bad, but "Cronos" and " The Devil's Backbone" were great. As long as del Toro has GOOD writing in front of him, his visuals/dealing with characters MIGHT work. Juenet would be interesting, but still gets a "no" in my book. I feel that his "Alien" shows that maybe he should stick to his own french-language films (which are incredible), so he can understand what the hell his actors are saying, and then...direct said actors. Or maybe even how about this - Spike Jonze?? That I think would be interesting, indeed.
None of these guys are 100% perfect in my book - just some people to mention. It's hard to think of other when Jackson did so well.
My two cents. -
ESB and FOTR were great films. Some slight problems in both but, overall, fantastic movies.
Let's talk about what we all can really get behind and hate: Ebert and Roeper. These f*cksticks couldn't know less about movies. Geeks unite! -
Dec 13, 2002 4:27:44 PM CST
"Would ever give a Hobbit a foot massage?" ...[pause]... "Fuck y
by pallando blue
***ROTK SPOILERS*** ;) [Much Much Later, At The Houses Of Healing...] Ioreth: "What the fuck's going on out here?" [sees Eowyn being dragged in by Aragorn and Eomer] "Who's she?" Aragorn: "Go to the fridge and get that athelas I keep for emergencies." Ioreth: "What's wrong with her?" Eomer: "Black Breath." Ioreth: "Get her the hell outta here!" A & E in unison: "GET THE FUCKING ATHELAS!" Ioreth: "Fuck you." [exits] Eomer: "Fuckin' bitch..!" Aragorn: "Okay, just keep talking to her. While she's getting the athelas, I gotta get a medical book." Eomer: "A what?" Aragorn: "A medical book, I've never given an athelas breath before." Eomer: "You never gave an athelas breath before!?" Aragron: "I never had to before! I don't go wraith-stabbing with bubble-gummers, all right? All of my friends can handle it." Eomer: "Well get it!" Aragorn: "I will if you let me." Eomer: "I'm not fuckin stopping you!" Aragorn: "Well stop talkin to me and start talkin to her! Eomer: "Just get the fucking book!" [Aragorn starts plowing through a junk room, muttering] Eomer: "Hurry up, Aragorn, we're losing her!" Aragorn: "I'm looking as fast as I can!" Ioreth: "What's he looking for?" Eomer: "I dunno, some medical book." Ioreth: [yelling] "What are you looking for?" Aragorn: "My black medical book!" Ioreth: [Now at the junk room's door] "What are you looking for?" Aragorn: "My black fucking medical book. It's like a textbook they give to healers." Ioreth: "I never saw a medical book." Aragorn: "Trust me, I have one." Ioreth: "Well if it's that important, why didn't you keep it with the athelas?" Aragorn: "I don't know! Stop bothering me!" Ioreth: "While you're in here that girl's gonna die in our House of Healing. You're never gonna find it in all this shit" Eomer: [off-screen] "Aragorn, get your ass in here!" [Aragorn stumbles through the junk, glaring at Ioreth as he exits] Ioreth: "Pig."
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its funny how harry can shit allover star trek, but he never mentions sean astins horrible acting in LOTR. dont get me wrong, i liked the fellowship, one of my favorite movies. but seans portrayel of sam, and i think you can see it in the prancing pony scenes, pre strider, i think his performance, was border line, like homo obsessive.
'that fellers done nothing but stare at you all night!' i just think samwise came off kinda queer, with his obsessive protectiveness of frodo. just a thought, next time harry wants to slam poor johnathan frakes. -
...I think, actually, it would be better served as a big budget episodic small-scren adaptation, a la "Band of Brothers" and "Taken." Every chapter an episode! Every chapter DOES read like a mini-adventure already (almost), with one series-long overarching plotline. But in any case, the only things I'd reasonably want to insist on, is getting Boyens on the screen- or teleplay, and have Weta handle all the design/effects. Maintain just that level of continuity, and I wouldn't mind even McKellen being replaced as Gandalf (lest he become trapped and resentful of the role...), though whoever stepped in would have an uphill, unfair battle. Weta and Boyens, and I'm fine without cast continuity, even without set/prop/photography continuity as necessary. Though it would be fun to see an Orlando Bloom cameo, standing by Thranduil's throne with no lines, barely in frame. :)
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I don't know if he'd even be the best choice to direct it... It depends what kind of movie your looking forward to. If you want "The Hobbit" to be the same type of film as FOTR, then of course Jackson is the best man for the job. However, the Hobbit is a completely different book then LOTR, as anyone who has read both knows. The Hobbit is a children's novel (I'm not saying it is bad, it's a great story) and has an atmosphere and mood that is closer to the Harry Potter books than the LOTR. Where LOTR is heavier on the dramatic, the Hobbit is really just a series of little 'adventures'.
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"Would YOU give a Hobbit a foot massage" that oughta be. Deleted the wrong damn four-letter word! Thbbhbtbbtt.
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ooohh yeahh! don`t we all get a bright geeky smile on our face?? well..i sadly can`t attend that preview night on tuesday but i guess i can stand it till friday...i hooope!! and i WILL EVEN resist clicking on that fucking trailer link!! I WILL NOT SEE ANY SORT OF ENT OR OLIPHANT EXCEPT IN MY OWN MIND before next friday...
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whatever dumbass said it was 2 stars, the stars wrapped the screen because the full title is so long.
http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/2001/12/121901.html
Is there a major American film critic more amenable to the geek point of view than Ebert? Sure, he sometimes laud movies that I find detestable, but at least he's not a whore - oh wait, he gave Titanic 4 stars. Never mind. -
Richard Kelly was the genius who wrote and directed the sadly overlooked "Donnie Darko." So he'll come cheap and they can spend the savings on Smaug effects from WETA. Bring back Hugo Weaving, Ian McKellan and Andy Serkis. As for Bilbo, that's the difficult one . . . short middle-aged man . . . any ideas? Michael Clarke Duncan could play Beorn, a giant man who turned into a black bear.
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Personally, I'd like to see it done by ETA, Lensed by Lesnie, directed by Robert Zemeckis, from a screenplay by Boyens, Walsh and a little PJ (who's the exec. producer). Then you'd have a reversal of the situation of the frighteners, except you'd have an established director bailing out a failing one, rather than the establlished one giving an upstart a chance.
The players? Ian as Gandalf, of course. I'm going with Ewan McGregor as Bilbo, Colin Farrel as Thorin (remember big prosthetics!), and Robert Caslilie as Bard.
PHHTTT I'm bored with this. -
I'm sure you already know what you're going to say: gush, gush, ejaculation reference, gush, praise, gush, fecal matter reference, second coming of Christ reference, gush, brilliant, gush...
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Did no one else find that self-description just a tad PRETENTIOUS!!!??
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I liked Donnie Darko immensely as a first time effort, but, Richard Kelly is clearly not yet have the ability to tackle something like the Hobbit. Darko had some logic problems, and was rough around the edges. Kelly needs 3 or 4 more films in him before he tackles something like the Hobbit. Personally, I would love to see Speilberg tackle this, it plays to his strengths, and he has shown how well he can adapt even mediocre novels. As for casting, I think Tobey Maguire would do justice to a younger Bilbo. Geoffry Rush would be my choice if they wanted to make him older. Patrick Stewart seems a natural Bard. Josef Fiennes for Thorin.
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Spielberg sucks! PJ needs to tell him he's all washed up! He's an oversentimental moron who likes to make idiotic filmgoers feel smart! Minority Report and Catch Me If You Can were the two worst films of the year. Schindler's List sucked and was hokey. Blah blah blah blah hack blah blah sacrilege blah blah blah
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Why do you people pick on Harry so much? I am jazzed beyond belief over LOTR and feel his agony over having to wait five more excruciating days to see this next amazing film. I'm with ya, Harry! I started to come to this site cuz I got fed up with people with nothing better to do than make comments about what Elijah Wood does to his hair like it matters. I mean, it's HIS head-I think he can do whatever he wants to it. This is a great site to be on if you are a movie geek and I praise you Harry! Thanks for makig me feel like I am not alone in this!
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and that other guy who wanted to beat up geeks as they left TTT? Oh...and Fettastic if you are reading...your "reporter" posts were hilarious. Any more? "Well, it ain't exactly called Mt. Peace now is it?" lol I'm so torn...I totally want to see this movie but I'm really fucking sick of the wait....TTT overload!!
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Dec 13, 2002 8:21:55 PM CST
Yes, I am looking forward to Two Towers. But seriously... speaki
by a goonie
I am obsessed with the romantic powers of cinema. The effect that Gary Goddard's "Masters of the Universe" and Richard Donner's "The Goonies" has on me today is incredible. But Fellowship (and I imagine the same for Two Towers) was not the most amazing movie I have ever seen, nor was it the most amazing movie experience I have ever had. Neither of them (picture or experience) even break my top 100's. I can almost guarantee that in this year alone, I will hold more dearly my experiences with "Far From Heaven," "Full Frontal," and "Bowling For Columbine" higher than I will my experience(s) with The Two Towers. Of course, we can only know for sure come late Tuesday night (well, technically early Wednesday morning). I'm just saying, as sweet and passionate a post this is by Harry, it just doesn't ring true for me. And of course, as great as The Empire Strikes Back is (and it does rule), the most beautiful images ever to grace science fiction are found in Kubrick's "2001: A Space Odyssey" and Ridley Scott's "Blade Runner."
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But it is not "silly" if you feel it. What? You think some of us have no standards of comparison? Speaking purely for myself, I've seen drama at the West End, opera at the Met, several decades worth of films (including almost everything on any film society 100-best list), and I think it really is up to me to decide whether something is a "peak" experience for ME. As a number of us keep pointing out, taste is entirely individual and you are free not to love FOTR, as we are not necessarily enraptured by YOUR favorites. But why assume your standards are "better" than ours? By what criterion? And - again - why are you here? Do you think I hang around talkbacks for movies that do not even qualify as being in my "top 100"? Now THAT is "silly," if you mean a complete waste of type and quite incomprehensible. One would think you had better things to do. At least, I hope so. Like, go discuss some of the films you DO truly love. Or, I don't know, go for a walk in the park....
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a sniveling little shit who has no business giving his opinions to his neighbour, let alone a nation. How I see it for any movie is : If Ebert likes it, I might like it. If Roeper doesn't like it: then I know I'll like it.
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Gotta let Jackson do it. If he doesn't it will screw up the continuity of the series. Plus Ian Holm can totally be Bilbo cause Bilbo didn't age between the Hobbit and Fellowship, due to his possession of the ring. The only other characters featured in both are Elrond and Gandalf, and surely Hugo and Ian McKellan would do it. Oh and of course Gollum.. so Andy Serkis too.
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About every day or so, I get one or two messages on my e-mail that have nothing in them, but may or may not be from people on this talkback. If they are meant kindly, then I am sorry the content is invisible and I have not responded. (A number of them have yahoo addresses.) All I can say is, a Merry Christmas to you, too.
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http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/380/380092p1.html
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T-Mack, I think "going off on another adventure" could merely be a very sly way of referring to the actual end of the book. We know the Grey Havens are going to be there. As to where Frodo and Bilbo go from there... How many times has death been referred to as "the greatest adventure"? (In "Peter Pan," anyway.) They are certainly leaving the circle of this earth. ***And Shepherd Wong, do not be misled by certain critics who dimly remember reading LOTR (too quickly, apparently) into thinking of the Ring as a McGuffin. It is not a McGuffin. I don't have Hitchcock's definition of a McGuffin on me, but I think the idea is that it's merely something used to move the plot along, but not really important in itself. The Ring is just the opposite: absolutely vital to the story. It is not a mere "magic" object, and this is not a mere adventure story. It may seem so to some young people (I do not say all, because some can grasp what this is "really" about from a fairly early age), but LOTR is a PROFOUNDLY adult novel that can be enjoyed for its adventure, but is really about loss and mortality (which every good character is facing) and what one is willing to give up for one's world. It is also about temptation on the deepest level. Do any of these themes apply to Indiana Jones? Is there ever any suggestion that he won't survive, or that he has fought and overcome anything inside himself? Despite the supernatural special effects, is there any suggestion that either he or his world is truly in peril? Or that he ever questions his choices? (Does he ever truly THINK at all, except to plot his next move?) Is there ANY suggestion that this is anything other than a wonderfully-done old-fashioned adventure, from which the hero emerges exactly the same as he started, ready to begin it all over again? Yes, it's a GREAT adventure story, one of the best. But I am truly sorry you see only the surface of FOTR and that all that beauty and love and sacrifice has failed to move you as it has so many of us.
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Oh my God. The Ents are so f**king cool. Gandalf vs. the Balrog is so f**king cool. Arwen is HOT, Eowyn is even hotter. P. Jackson has become the director George Lucas could have been if he didn't decide in 1983 that he didn't care about being a great filmmaker anymore, he just wanted to be "the coolest most fun daddy in the whole wide world". The "Fellowship of the Ring" extended DVD's extras make the "Attack of the Clones DVD extras look cheap. The "Clones" extras and commentary where too little and mostly just dry and dull. Plus I doubt if they amounted to much more then 4 hours. While the 7 hours of documentaries and the 9 hours of commentaries on the FOTR DVD are fascinating, insightful, witty and just plain fun. Also I envy the lucky LOTR fan club members who all got their names in the credits and I think it's really cool of Jackson to put such a neat thank you in there for the fans. Heck I've belonged to the Star Wars Fan Club for over a decade and all I've ever gotten as a thank you where a couple of micro-machine mini-sets (with 1 vehicle and 1 figure each) and a "landspeeder floaty pen". I know a lot of your whine about the SW/LOTR and Jackson/Lucas comparisons but it's really hard not to compare. I get the feeling that Jackson sincerely cares about the fans and sincerely cares about making great films. While I've come to believe that Lucas really doesn't give a shit about the fans anymore and doesn't really care if the films are good or not, just as long as his kids like them and they make money. It's a shame really since the films tend to still have a lot of very cool stuff, like Obi-Wan's adventure and the last 30 mins or so on Geonosis. Yet that can't make up for the bad dialogue and casting the worst possible actor as Anakin. "The Empire Strikes Back" (my all-time favorite film) showed the true potential of what Star Wars could be but as we all know he told Kersh he "didn't have to make then film that good..." *sigh* Hopefully with the next special editions Lucas won't ruin it, ANH and 'Jedi' beyond all recognition just so they fit with his prequels. I don't think he cares if he pisses on something his most staunch fans care about. At this point I wouldn't put it past him to replace the Yoda in 'Empire' with a CGI Yoda. I'm sad to say nothing he could do would surprise me anymore. However I think the general audience is starting to tire of Lucas. Yes "Clones" made a lot of money but not as much as Spiderman (the first time a SW film isn't number 1 in the year of it's release at the BO), and not as much as "The Fellowship of the Ring". The latter is especially telling since FOTR was an hour longer then "Clones" and therefore ran with about two less showings per screen, per day. Where as 'Clones' started strong and faded (a weak after it open I went to an evening showing and the place was empty, just me and 3 others where there) while "Fellowship" started modestly and gained speed. (6 months after it opened it was still playing to full houses at evening showings). Both where because of word of mouth. People found out how bad the whole Anakin and Padme love story was in "Clones" and thought twice about going to see it. The only major positive word-of-mouth generate en masse was about Yoda, which is why up until the release they mostly ran commercials about Anakin and Padme while after the release the only commercials they ran where about Yoda, not to mention the DVD campaign centered on Yoda. ("Who Da Man? Yo-Da Man!" etc.) "Clones" was strong at first because it was Star Wars but the word-of-mouth slowed it down. However while geeks like myself who have long loved Tolkien's classic books where the only ones stoked about the release of "Fellowship" at first, the positive word-of-mouth and praise from critics got more and more people to go who had never heard of Gandalf or Frodo and they loved the film too. This is why I think that while "Clones made significantly less money then "The Phantom Menace", "The Two Towers" is going to out do "The Fellowship of the Rings"'s box office take simply because a major portion of filmgoers are now fans and looking forward to the films release. Now as someone whose been a Star Wars fan for 25 years I really wish Lucas did truly care about the fans and wanted to make the best possible Star Wars films. However since he doesn't I'm just glad Peter Jackson is doing such a wonderful job so far on the "Lord of the Rings". It gives us older fans who where around when the original SW trilogy came out something new we can enjoy just as much as we enjoy the original SW trilogy. Of course those of you who may absolutely love the prequels and not see the flaws I and many other long-time SW fans do, I say more power to you and I'm glad you enjoy them that much just as I'm glad I can enjoy the LOTR now. To each thier own.
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*******Aww man. Well first that trailer is cool, I liked the rhythm of the editing. Oh yeah, and the stuff inside the shots as well, like that guy with the beard. Second of all, the Yoda in Attack of the Clones is approximately four hundred and sixty times better than the Yoda in the Empire Strikes Back. He's much more emotive than that fake rubber thing. Check out the last shot of Yoda on the Clone War battlefield, you know where the camera's tilted up and Yoda's head is big in the right of the frame and there's a clonetrooper looking through goggles on the left. Check out Yoda's expressions. Awesome. Attack of the Clones is better than Empire, it's more epic. Everyone just remembers Empire being better cause they were like six at the time. For example; as if 'Attack of the Clones' is any worse a title than 'The Empire Strikes Back'. Word.*********
Dude there is only one rule in a talk back forum and it is:
Do not drink a bottle of Jack Daniels, eat a ound of weed, smoke 20 Ounces of crack, and do a little speed before you make a post. I mean what fucking dream world do you live in and how did Bizzaro fly you to this planet? I mean is daytime black, and nightime bright where you live? Clowns, I mean Clones Better than Empire!? Dude please...clones, while an enjoyable movie, was not even in the same LEAGUE as Empire, I mean damn, clones is like the 4rth best Star Wars film. THe duels sucked and were all conducted in the dark other than the Yoda part which was like 8 seconds long and really meaningless when it comes down to it...I mean the fight didn't even end (kind of like Jango-Obi)...it was like fought well you have...uh see you later I shall...Know not why you didn't just get on your ship and fly away in the first place I don't...not to mention the only dialogue in the entire series that is worse than TPM..."You are in my very soul" "I am haunted by the kiss you should never have given me"...dude I don't know if GL meant that to be funny, but I was laughing and crying at the same time...and I could slam another 20 quotes equally as fingernails-hitting-the-chalk- board bad in clones. I wont even bother getting into all the other ho hum- all cgi, no true drama parts like the car chase and conveyer belt scenes.
And incidentally don't throw complex words like "epic" around without a dictionary, the beginning of empire basically could hav ended the entire conflict....the highlight of clones while flashy was basically a skirmish involving 1/20th of all the Jedi...had they all been slaughtered there would still have been only 9,800 of the 10,000 Jedi left...
Sooo in the end although Clones was decent it A) was certainly not great, it simply seemed that way in light of being so muchbetter than TPM set our expectations...
and incidentally Empire was my LEAST favorite OT as a kid (and made the least money of the OT)...age made most of us REALIZE how great it was, not visa versa.
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Well, if your definition of a McGuffin (or Maguffin; I don't know how Hitchcock spelled it) is that it is vitally important to the characters but not to the viewer, all I can say was that the Ring was vitally important to THIS viewer. Your argument basically boils down to the fact that you liked the characters more and were more entertained by "Raiders of the Lost Ark" than you were by FOTR. Fair enough, if you'd admit that's your whole argument. They were, indeed, memorable characters (one test being that we actually remember their names). But they do NOT, in the course of the movie, grow or change. Whatever they are in the beginning, they are in the end. There is no character DEVELOPMENT - only character movement, from one predicament to the next. Whereas, to me, the characters in LOTR are utterly fascinating in themselves. Yes, Gandalf is an archetype of the bearded, wise old man - but I would argue that he's the most fully developed version of that archtype we've ever seen, and both the most powerful and the most vulnerable (in his love for the people he is trying to help). To me, he blows Merlin out of the water. Aragorn, who was already a strong character in the book, becomes an even more conflicted and interesting character in the movie. And the hobbits you find so dull, I find engaging, charming, heart-breaking.... Frodo I can't even find words for, he's so compelling in every frame. Well, at least you liked Boromir! I'm not trying to talk you into anything, here, unless it's OUT of dissing a movie that simply didn't push your buttons and acting as if it's some intrinsic factor in the movie and not your own reaction to it that is the difference. We're just having a whole different experience than you are with LOTR.
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ahhh........not long now!! Just finishing off the FOTR book and I suspect the special ed. will be watched maybe a couple more times just to prepare me so to speak. Man....I CANNOT wait!!! Rest assured I'll be letting you ALL know what I think come Wednesday night!!!!! Just as I'm sure everyone else will too. Oh and by the way, I know its early but I may as well get it in now b4 it becomes commonplace and meaningless....HAPPY XMAS TO EVERYONE AT AICN!!!!!!!!!
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And all ya'll dissing The Clones. Well firstly I am not on crack. I swear. Secondly I use 'epic' in terms of describing the scope of the film....c'mon: The scope of the Clones is far greater than the scope of Empire, just in terms of the vistas we're presented with and the variety of the locations our heroes visit. Thirdly, the duels in the prequels are approximately NINE HUNDRES AND SIXTY superior to the duels in the original trilogy, this is what I mean about being objective !!! Just take a look at the duels !!! Maul vs Obi Wan and Qui Gon Neeson was so frickin kinetic...compare that to Empire Strikes Back...woo! To be honest Dave Prowse looks as though he's a middle aged man with a bucket on his head (actually I guess this is close to the truth). It's like watching one's grandad trying to wrestle. Then compare that to Dooku vs Anakin. I don't care what trickery was involved, the effect is cool...the speed and intensity, the lightsabers illuminating their faces and also, that AWESOME BACKBACKABACKABACKABACKABACKA noise in the background that Ben Burtt uses. Fourthly I happen to really like the cheesy dialogue in Attack Of The Clones. This is an important point ! Actually what you would call cheesy, I would call stylised. FOR REAL, before anyone asks. Like in TPM when Obi Wan says to Qui Gon: 'You were right about one thing master...the negotiations were short.' It's so old fashioned and innocently humorous, it's cool. What I would call Cheesines would be Morpheus-talk in the Matrix, like 'I believe this night holds, for each and every one of us, the very meaning of our lives'...and other such schtick, like the way all them guys talk in Blade 2. I like the old fashioned Star Wars dialogue. One thing I would agree with though is that some of the dramatic set ups in Clones are a bit meaningless, and sometimes not so credible. Like in the final duel....why is Obi Wan totally imobilised by a cut on the leg for about ten minutes?? I mean; this is a Jedi! Anyway apart from that, Clones is awesome, better than Empire in my opinion. That's all, bye!
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Dec 14, 2002 9:29:41 AM CST
ESB Yoda writhes in his grave and says, "turned to the Dark Side
by orson w
The CGI Yoda in AOTC was pretty disappointing in my opinion. On a technical level, I found myself too distracted by the watery-blurry movement that all CGI seems to have. The puppet in ESB had much greater physicality (because it's real) and greater energy in its performance (because it, er, literally had a hand up its ass). But the main problem with the new Yoda is that they have quite simply forgotten how to do the character - in the same way that they have forgotten how to do a Star Wars movie. And it's not just Lucas - it applies to Frank Oz too, because his puppet in TPM was as lifeless as could be. They have lost touch with the character and how to write for him - the Yoda of ESB would never have said anything so ludicrous as "Around the survivors a perimeter create!" or any of the other nonsense he's saddled with. The ESB Yoda had real presence and dignity - you just respect that puppet without even thinking about it! Which is not something that can be said for the Yoda they're hawking nowadays....As for the FOTR Vs Raiders argument....well, it's a fun fanboy issue to discuss. For me, in the genre of Epic Adventure movies, I have an image of one Olympic pedestal on which stand the top three of all time. Scrambling around the foot of the pedestal are the worthy contenders that didn't quite make it to the top: your Time Bandits, your Jason And The Argonauts, your Star Wars: A New Hope, your Last Of The Mohicans. And up there holding the gold, silver and bronze - you've guessed it - it's ESB, Raiders Of the Lost Ark and Lawrence Of Arabia. Now, to my point: For the first enthralling hour or so of PJ's FOTR, it was absolutely clear that there was going to be a new member of the elite three - or room would have to be made for a fourth. But then, FOTR sort of dropped the ball. With the introduction of so many characters (we lose touch with Frodo, Sam, Gandalf), the disapointing (for me) Balrog scene, the unconvincing swordfights (thanks, PG rating) and the few lapses into sentimentality, FOTR slipped off the top and fell right back down to the foot of the pedestal - still amongst the best, still half a great film - but not quite up there with THE greats of the genre. Well, that's how I see it anyhow...
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Dec 14, 2002 9:59:54 AM CST
Nice work Pollando, but are your sure that your not giving the '
by skyway moaters
...your "adaptative" post(s): "Yes Virgina" and all the PF dialog permutaions are quite brilliant, but I'm pretty sure that they are "right over the tops of the heads" of a some of these knuckleheads. Namarie Mellyn, an' Trubba Not, Pollando's posts sure hits de spot!{;-0
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Are you Niles Crane?
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Dec 14, 2002 11:06:41 AM CST
INGOLD! I beg your forgiveness your wall buildingness....
by skyway moaters
... I shall make tracks for the last TB RIGHT NOW. Read my reponse there if you would be so indulgent...
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I think that any person who claims that AOTC or any other sci-fantasy flick (except for LOTR)is better needs a bloody good KICKING!!! I've watched the spectacular battle of Hoth (which even though it has aged badly in teerms of FX and editing is still VERY memorable and exciting and now I've just been introduced to Yoda. I had forgotten just how endearing this character is, not at all like the CGI version. (He's just this second rummaging through Lukes supplies after they meet) I was smiling and laughing throughout that whole scene. In particular when he casually chucks all Luke's gear over his shoulder dismissing each item as boring or uninteresting yet when he finds a meaningless device that has a little glowing blue bulb in it, his eyes light up and he turns his head and laughs (like a child might having found precious toy) and then proceeds to squabble with R2-D2 after he tries to snatch it back.....I LOVE THAT!!! Such warmth and storytelling were completely missing from ATOC and TPM. I have to also add that the friction between Han and Lea is wonderful. For example when they land inside the asteroid, and the creature they have inadvertantly landed in starts moving, they are thrown into eachother and Han holds her tight and says "shhh!" she objects so strongly that she wriggles to escape the whole time even though they face potential danger. Han then says "Dont get excited!" to which Lea says " Captain, being held by you is quite enough to get me excited!" Then, classically, Solo says "Sorry sweetheart, I dont have time for anything else!", then smiles and walks away! Leaving the princess furious!!! LOL EXCELLENT FILM!!! LONG LIVE ANH, ESB, FOTR AND TTT!!!!
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Sorry the bulb isnt blue at all....before any anally retentive wierdos point that out!! And I mispelled Leia as well!! hehe Must be all the beers I've consumed today.
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...are you perhaps referring to "the smell of TATOW in the morning"? I didn't think that post required any reponse, it's hilarious, you old trowel wielding pontificator you...(heh!)
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...the pass is yours brother, and the drinks are on me!
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Here be your plot for FOTR: Walk walk walk 'THE RING=WAHHHHHHHHHH', Walk walk walk walk-' the dreaded Nine Riders being driven off by some guy waving a couple burning Q-tips-Gimme a fucking break! OOOOOO scary. And then you have the Blue Atomic Freakout by the elfqueen-that was STOOOOPID-that was something not even Benny in the Mummy woulda written. You like that? I think it's shit. I think most of the CGI is pretty lousy too. I thought the breakdancing Wizards was Incredibly funny-in a Giant Robot/X from Outer Space funny way way. What, if this had been made in the '70s, you woulda expected to see George Burns dueling with Peter Finch or something like that. OOOOOOO scary. OOOOOOOOOO believable. Gotta hand it to the Matrix guy too-4 days work, gets to sit and intone 'Mount DOOM' 44 times, wander around the Swiss Cuckoo Clock Set a few times, etc. Not bad work if you can get it....Oh and the casting of the Hobbits. Well they got Ike and Mike there right, but c'mon-they cast Opus the Penguin as Frodo and as Spam-some blocky Goonies kid. Sure that is believable. I thought the only good part was in Moria, and even then-you have the big buildup to the Balrog-and get some fakey Ramsheaded Demon that is right outta 'Don Knotts Meets Scooby Doo'...Somehows or other I was expecting at least a Little more than that... The Cave troll was fun-they should have him taking on the Bathroom Bashing Troll from Harry Podder. At least that could have been fun. Watching this thing was like watching a boring as heck psuedo-medieval travelogue punctuated by a few dozen Doom/Lara Croft video games in the middle here and there...........Oh, and the Orcs. Good God. Here we have the WWF coming in and doing the casting/acting? BOOOOHHHHHHGUSSSSSSSS. Can't wait to see Rumpelstiltskin show up in the next one. Right by the breakdancing Wizards and those walking Birch trees....lmao. You guys are all creaming yer pants about this infantile garbage...you realllllllllllllllly are sad.
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...Frasier's brother! Well aren't you the clever one? Get a life you troll. *** TOLKIENOIDS: Don't go Ol' Gran Digi's track, Drop John's ryding on his back, Skyway Moaters' ben an' showed, Skyway Moaters' on the road...Namari, Tubba Not.{;-0
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Dec 14, 2002 12:51:16 PM CST
Shepherd Wong, Have you actually read the good proffesor's 'litt
by skyway moaters
...if not, please shut the hell up about character development. You wouldn't recognize it if it snuck up and bit you on the ass...
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Best scene in EP2, and one of the greatest Yoda scenes ever. I like how it shows Yoda more in his element, when teaching. LOST A PLANET, MASTER OBI-WAN HAS....HOW EMBARRASSING...HOW EMBARRASSING. With that shit eating grin...............brilliance. We saw many sides to Yoda in AOTC. Jedi council member, Teacher, General, warrior. The second prequel was Yoda dominant, just like the second OT episode.
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I envision a scenario that plays out quite often for you. As you mope in the back of the classroom, your teacher smirks the knowing smirk as he passes out the latest test. He wanders back, tosses your latest 'F' on your desk and tries not to giggle when he once again thinks of the sheer wonderment of your prose. Now, do remember, this is not a good, kind-hearted laugh. It is not even a laugh born of pity. It is malicious, because he knows, heck the whole faculty knows, the limit of your natural ability in the classroom. It is not so much the turgid writing and the profound lack of grammar, it is also the attitude, the belligerent apathy toward learning. They wrote you off long ago and they simply haven't thrown you out of school yet because the deep streak of shadenfruede they harbor. They keep you because by doing so they keep themselves from harping on other students, its an innoculation against idiot students in a way. I imagine that your parents are very proud.
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In the midst of everybody talking about how impressive the fx are, how great gollum is and how cool Legolas looks on a horse on a shield I haven't heard once how the film fills one emotionally, how it represents a truly gripping experienceto one's heart and brain, making one go and see it again and again. I celebrate the fact that this is happening, but if those seeing this film are only doing so for FX and for cat calls to others then I'm afraid the cause is lost. I said it once and I'm gonna say it again - I'm waiting for the ultimate part, "The Emperor's new Clothes".
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I imagine that after a good number of folks have seen it that discussion regarding the emotional impact will surface. Although I wonder if you will be going in to the movie to simply prove your hypothesis that it has no emotional depth. I think you need to wait before pronouncing a lack of emotional weight. A bit of patience on everyone's part is in order. We need to see it, then we can comment on the whole ball of wax a bit more productively.
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while i agree that the scene cute, it was also a prime example of the lack of thought being put into the prequels. here you have a group of little kids, rendered blind by helmets, standing 2 to 3 feet apart, SWINGING LIGHTSABRES! no wonder there were so few jedi. while i like the movie as a whole, that has to be one of the all-time stupidest things i have ever seen on film.
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Christopher Nolan. Now THAT would be very, very interesting to see.
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See that clip of the Rohirrim joining the battle at Helms deep? (Yeah I know it's approx. one second long)
See the beams of surreal light shining on the armies? See mountains? The extreme atmosphere?That's it folks. The defining moment in film history. Get ready. -
As if I needed another excuse to go see TTT...the tv spot was of course awesome....great teaser shots of the ents, gollum, wargs, fell beasts, balrog.....oh yeah, did I mention the ents.....I am really interested to see how they come out....I am a little apprehensive about how Gollum wil coem out in the movie...I realize he is not George Lucas...but after the jar jar fiasco....I am a little hesitant to have a computer generated main character.....we shall see
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Harry, it is time to pull out your banning power. Why? Because of the most insensitive post I have yet seen on a talkback. 'Possibly', that was beyond offensive.
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Dec 14, 2002 6:42:39 PM CST
Shepherd, good, OK, you read it. Now we can agree to disagree..
by skyway moaters
...now, did you GET it? Did you like it? Yes? No? Doesn't matter. It's a matter of taste. Tolkien's characterizations are not typical 20th century literary constructions. JRRT's method is purposely somewhat anachronistic, by most 20th century literary critical thinking standards. But that doesn't mean JRRT's characters are badly developed, it just means that they developed differently than what a lot of modern readers are used to. Tolkien's characters are VERY well drawn IMO, which, in any sort of pragmatic examination of human perception is all any of us homo sapiens really have: opinions. *** Namarie Mellon, Trubba Not.
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... I thought I had read some pretty rabid, self-important posts at this site, (a few of my own included unfortunately, depending upon one
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Dec 14, 2002 8:02:44 PM CST
Yes, please Harry, start using your "banning power"...
by incredibleyoda
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...when I think about the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of poor deluded fools that shelled out their hard earned $ to see FOTR, bunches of them several times even! Well, it just breaks my heart. BTW, how's the job working out? What's he like to work for? Your boss I mean? You know, that Lucifer guy?
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... do you um, regulary make it all the way through 2000 page novels that you're unimpressed with? Masochistic little sod aren't you?
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It's for kids, man. Marvellous technical accomplishment, and they made a small budget go a long (long) way, but it's seriously not a great movie. It's a reasonably simplistic good vs evil tale, with "epic" waffle and po-faced portentious gloom to flesh it out to unnecessary length. Nothing more. Star Wars fans don't need to tell themselves and each other that it is effortlessly superior to LOTR, but i will. It's clever, it's varied, it's polished, it's exciting, it's contemporary, it's sexy, it's funny and it's more popular. Titanic rules.
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Dune also rules.
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Harry - I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of those that compare the Star Wars trilogy to LOTR. The movies are so different. Yeah, they are both created out of fantasy genre, but Star Wars is a look at future with space ships, "the force", and Yoda. LOTR has wizards, hobbits and is suppose to be a history. I love both the LOTR movies and the first trilogy of Star Wars. I will have to say that the new Star Wars trilogy sucks wind. I don't know what the hell George Lucas was thinking and I am mad at him because I am a fan of the first trilogy. He needs to hire a new writer and director. Perhaps he could hire Peter Jackson so that he can get some emotions out of his actors. That would be interesting. Anyway, on the subject of TTT - I am dying. I am totally obsessed with this trilogy, Frodo, Gandalf, and Legolas. I wish this movie would be released already. It is going to blow all these bad movies that are currently in the theatre out of the water. Look forward to seeing all the movie geeks on Tuesday night at TTT!
emerald -
I think the Star Wars prequels would be much better without Natalie Portman. She's a pretty piece of eye candy but damn, she can't act. She always looks like she doesn't want to be there. And to keep things more on topic, do you think LOTR would suck as much as SW if Natalie Portman played Arwen? Discuss.
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I'm curious... how many of you LOTR "fans" have actually read the book?
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Dec 15, 2002 2:02:45 AM CST
Indiana Clones, please stop cutting and pasting your posts from
by skyway moaters
...seriously man, it was imprecise derivative trolling drivel the first time around and recycling it here hasn't improved it one whit. Sorry to dissapoint you bud, but I'm afraid no one is going to be impressed by your writing or your wit if you keep this up, no matter how many times you hit us over the head with the same post. Try a different tack, post something new, mmmkay?
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... I think you could answer your own question if you have read LOTR yourself and actually read other people's posts. You're just trying to provoke a reaction... um, which you err, have done seemingly...
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MadTV owns you.
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;) wink
And by the way, just for the record, (this is for everyone, not just you Skyway) I have the paperback boxset of the LOTR trilogy with the Hobbit and the Silmarillion, as well as the leatherette collector's edition. I have the extended edition and regular DVD of FOTR.... and.... a framed Attack of the Clones movie poster on my wall, Jango Fett and Darth Maul unleashed figures on my computer and the AOTC and TPM DVDs.. as well as three copies of each of the originals on VHS. So you see... it is possible to like.. no LOVE both. These are my two favorite stories ever. That's why I chose Darth Melkor as my handle. To represent both cause they'll always be equal in my eyes. -
It's always a good thing when we hear little from Dufusyte, because it means that things are going well. I have little to nit pick about with regard to the TV spot, other than I would have used men on stilts to do the motion capture for the ents, so that the ents would appear to walk like men on stilts. As it is, they appear to walk in a very human fashion. It's ok, but I think a more stilt-like walk would have been more ent-like. I mean, Ents should have no knees. They should be like those dudes in the circus on giant stilts. Or at least they should have done the motion capture with the actor in a knee brace so that he cannot bend at the knee joint. That would be ent walking for ya. Maybe also put him in an elbow brace so that they do not bend at the elbow, or, if their arm has to bend, give them an unusual place for the elbow joint, different than human anatomy. Or give them several bending points, like the trunk of an elephant. I just think that the current ents are a bit too human, like they are humans with a bunch of branches stuck on. Gotta rearrange the joints to make them move in a less human fashion. (Remember, there are still three days til opening night, so it's not too late to redo the ents, and while you're at it, stick in Townsend digitally for Viggo, and pipe in Loreena most of all. You've got three whole days, so time is no excuse). ******* I still have not seen the extended DVD of fellowship, but all in all things seem to be going quite well, with little to complain about. "Everything is going according to plan..." The clips of Eowyn are superb; Miranda & Director are doing a wonderful job with that character. When she stares at Aragorn with wide eyes, it's just perfect. Way to go dudes!! Bring it on, Dec 18th!! ******* P.S. Elanor mentioned me in her report, and now my life is complete.
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********And all ya'll dissing The Clones. Well firstly I am not on crack. I swear.************
**********Secondly I use 'epic' in terms of describing the scope of the film....c'mon: The scope of the Clones is far greater than the scope of Empire, just in terms of the vistas we're presented with and the variety of the locations our heroes visit.***********
*********Thirdly, the duels in the prequels are approximately NINE HUNDRES AND SIXTY superior to the duels in the original trilogy, this is what I mean about being objective !!! Just take a look at the duels !!! Maul vs Obi Wan and Qui Gon Neeson was so frickin kinetic...compare that to Empire Strikes Back...woo!***********
********To be honest Dave Prowse looks as though he's a middle aged man with a bucket on his head (actually I guess this is close to the truth). It's like watching one's grandad trying to wrestle. Then compare that to Dooku vs Anakin.***********
Actually Prowse ONLY dueled in ANH...the ESB and ROTJ had a stand in who moved better.....MUCH better....and Yeah COMPARE ESB to Dooku Anakin ESB= AWESOME....AOTC= CRAP...you CANNOT SEE A FREAKIN THING....you know why? Because Christopher Lee is almost 2X OLDER than Prowse and CANT MOVE....the guy lookes like he needs a frekin cane. I love the actor but what a HORRIBLE choice, GL SHOULD have gotten another martial atsits like Park....after seeing how good GL could do w/ duels in the PT, AOTC was a horrid disappointment in that department.>
*******I dont care what trickery was involved, the effect is cool...the speed and intensity, the lightsabers illuminating their faces and also, that AWESOME BACKBACKABACKABACKABACKABACKA noise in the background that Ben Burtt uses.***********
*****************Fourthly I happen to really like the cheesy dialogue in Attack Of The Clones. This is an important point ! Actually what you would call cheesy, I would call stylised. FOR REAL, before anyone asks. Like in TPM when Obi Wan says to Qui Gon: 'You were right about one thing master...the negotiations were short.' It's so old fashioned and innocently humorous, it's cool**************
*********. What I would call Cheesines would be Morpheus-talk in the Matrix, like 'I believe this night holds, for each and every one of us, the very meaning of our lives'...and other such schtick, like the way all them guys talk in Blade 2. I like the old fashioned Star Wars dialogue*****************
************One thing I would agree with though is that some of the dramatic set ups in Clones are a bit meaningless, and sometimes not so credible. Like in the final duel....why is Obi Wan totally imobilised by a cut on the leg for about ten minutes?? I mean; this is a Jedi! Anyway apart from that, Clones is awesome, better than Empire in my opinion. That's all, bye!********
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**********I don't know how old you are gorilla boy or whatever, but go back and watch Empire strikes back again and tell me that movie isn't a true classic that still holds up today. I dare you********.
person...that Battle had FAR and AWAY the most drama, the most tension, and the greatest ending...almost ALL the good guys die...and they SHOW a lot of it....it snot just flash, flash....good guys losing...lfahs , flash....good guys mysteriously winning (or visa vera) ther is EBB and FLOW to that battle that makes sense...the good guys losing is long, and you feel the desperation. It is the best edited battle in SW (Battle not sabre fight)...flash is fun, but substance is greater. -
Superfriend, Peter Jackson wasn't trying to hide anything with those effects. If you had read the books, you would've known that the battle of helms deep takes place at night. Also, PJ spent 4 months straight shooting the battle of helms deep, so there is going to be more live action than SFX.
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... or maguffin, (McGuffen?)interpretation applied to "The One" before, and it holds no more water (that is to say none) the thousandth time than it did the first. It merely demonstrates a lack of insight into the text by lazy readers...
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Dec 15, 2002 10:34:55 AM CST
Thanks morGy, I love you too. "Oio naa elealla alasse
by skyway moaters
...oh shit, shouldn't have said that! Now some jerk with no concept of platonic love or true frienship is bound to apply distastefull terms like "turd burglar", "butt pirate" or "prison bitch" to this hapless ol' conexxions man, *sigh*. By the by morG old chap, when you say "...nice to have you back so often", are you perhaps aiming a gentle rib nudge to imply "too oftened"? If so I happen to agree with you. I'm just SO freakin' jazzed about T2T right now that I get carried away sometimes. Trubba Not morG: "I
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Dec 15, 2002 10:42:05 AM CST
Big difference morG. When Pollando goes ther he has tounge firml
by skyway moaters
... pretty cheeky devil that Pollando {:o)
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Dec 15, 2002 12:44:37 PM CST
Hey morGoth, this is off topic and I don't expect a review...
by skyway moaters
...just a general impression if you would be so kind: How was "Nemesis"? *** Right there with you Miami: TICK... TICK..... TICK ........ AAAAAHHHHGGGG! Talk about your tike dilation!
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Dec 15, 2002 12:47:11 PM CST
URL Fluffy? I'm usually pretty much in agreement with Travers...
by skyway moaters
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Dec 15, 2002 1:12:35 PM CST
TIKE dilation?! damn qwerty keyboard! Sorry 'bout that...
by skyway moaters
Ahhh, there you are Shepherd! lurking in the shadows just waiting to take me to task on every comment no matter how banal eh? "I SEE YOU!" (Yikes where did that giant flaming vagina come from?!) So Mr. Wrong... er, Wong, you finish any dull 2000 page novels lately?
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It's not. I noticed that someone earlier in the Talkback posted that Star Wars is a future-looking, sci-fi movie, and I disagree. It's fantasy with a thin (sometimes REAL thin) veneer of sci-fi over it. You have: wizards and knights both good and evil, magic swords, a story that takes place "A long time ago" (translation: Once upon a time), destiny, magic, the always-necessary Dark Lord, etc. There just happen to be lasers and spaceships in this fantasy, but it's still fantasy. LOTR is a fantasy in a bucolic setting; Star Wars is a fantasy in a space setting.
Slightly off topic, I still contend that the Luke/Vader duel at the end of RoTJ is the best duel in any of the Star Wars movies. In fact, I think it's safe to say it will be better than anything Lucas can come up with for the third installment of crap as well, and I don't care how many backflips and cartwheels go on in the upcoming Anakin/Obi-Wan fight. Both Luke and Vader were important to me (and I suspect everyone else here) by the time RoTJ rolled around. Conversely, I only slightly care about Obi-Wan's character at this point in the new movies (mostly holdover from Alec Guinness), and I actively hate Anakin's character (both from the actor's portrayal and the way he is scripted). I have no faith that Lucas will be able to make me care about either of these two in the third movie. Drama and character make fights important and exciting, not wires and computers (IMHO). Ok, rant over. :) -
He's quite a strange one.... He put AOTC on his worst list? Funny since his review on rotten tomatoes is fresh. Either he is extremely indecisive or someone here is making up stories.
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...so now LOTR is on the same level as "Peter Pan"? What a pitiable unimaginitive, benighted soul you have revealed yourself to be. I'll leave you alone now. Sorry for bugging you man. I should have realized this sooner and spared us both the trouble. I'll shut up now. Take it easy...
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...My guess is that we've been talking to a somewhat articulate 14 year old who is simply not sophisticated enough to engage in well reasoned debate. He offers no examples, provides no insights, no justistification, he only states his firmly held opinions, over and over. There's nothing wrong or even unusual about this, that's just the way most 14 year olds are. PAX.
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...enjoy it while you can because meaningless titillation, (Hey Beavis! He said tit! huh huh huh) usually loses it's appeal by the time you become a grown up...
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********I finish every book I read, no matter how dull.*********
.
************I have only walked out of two movies in the last ten years (Matrix and Blair Witch Project***********
.
***********I liked LotR the movie even though I thought characters weren't interesting, the fights were badly done and ********
.....***************the overall tone of the movie was way more serious than anything involving wizards and pixies should be****************
**********and when I plan to watch TTT too***********
************but when Harry tries to put a movie he hasn't seen into the same league with The Empire Strikes Back**********
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I just want you to know that I respect you for actually ANSWERING THE QUESTION put to you. There are so few people here willing to do that. Thank you.
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You know when you think that there are certain things that you HAVE to see in a movie? Well, I just saw one that almost stopped my heart for a sec. Walking trees. Talk about a Jungian Archetype rearing up from the depths of the subconscious. And that shot of the Ent heaving that HUGE block of masonary across Isengard. I feel like becoming a druid of something. Also, on the Saruman confronatation: Saruman will not be spiked in this movie, but nor yet will he be cast down and broken. Apparently, that's fot the ROTK. I'm all for it, since I want Christopher Lee around as long as the narrative can stand it. He's so cool.
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Dec 16, 2002 4:07:24 AM CST
I WANT A FULL REVIEW BY MORIARTY NOW. AND NO STUPID 'WAITING IN
by sepulchrave
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The CG is crap as always. The best shot was the one featuring Liv Tyler.
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Dec 16, 2002 5:27:12 AM CST
I am a Lucas jockrider, but I am more excited for TTT than I was
by the_lion
I will be more excited for the final STAR WARS movie than for any other in my life. And I am still holding out hope that it might be a great film.
TWO TOWERS... I CANNOT FUCKIN WAIT!!!!! -
...that we could all take a lesson in tolerance. Besides, it is normally a complete waste of time, and idicactive at least a certain measure of arrogance on the part of the would-be "convincer", to try to influence other people's opinions when they already have their minds made up. A reality that I and others seem to conveniently forget from time to time.
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Sheesh
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who the hell made time slow down? i am not even pretending to work anymore. I just sit in my office with drool hanging from my lips watching the clock.
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AARRRGGH. Okay, must keep self distracted... [Flashback used in T2T SEV, taken straight from the Appendices] Glorfindel: "Aragorn, our man in Arnordam! Gandalf, our man in... all over! ...Damn, ranger, what's up with them clothes?" Gandalf: "You don't even wanna know." Aragorn: "Where's the big man?" Glorfindel: "Big man's finishing up some business. Just hang back for a second, when you see the white boy leave, go on over." [Aragorn takes a stool] Aragorn: "Gimme a cup of miruvor." Glorfindel: "Comin' up. ...I hear you're taking Arwen out tomorrow?" Aragorn: "At Elrond's request." [Gandalf and Glorfindel exchange a smirk] Glorfindel: "You ever meet Arwen?" Aragorn: "Not yet." [Gandalf and Glorfindel bust out laughing] Aragorn: "What's so fucking funny!?" Glorfindel: "Not a thing." Gandalf: [still laughing to himself] "I got to take a piss." [exits] Aragorn: "Look, I'm not a fucking idiot. She's the big man's daughter. I'm gonna sit across the table, chew my food with my mouth closed, laugh at her fucking jokes and that's all I'm gonna do." Glorfindel: "My name's Glorfindaul, and this's between y'all." Aragorn: [muttering] "Then what'd you ask me for. Pointy-ears." [Boromir comes up to the bar] Boromir: "Can I get a pack of Southern Stars?" Glorfindel: "Filters?" Boromir: "No." [notices Aragorn staring at him] "Looking at something, firend?" Aragorn: "I ain't yer friend, Gondorian." Boromir: [slow burn] "What was that?" Aragorn: [turning on his stool] "I think you heard me just fine, stewie." [the two men glare at each other for a beat, then Elrond calls from across the room] Elrond: "Aragorn Elessar's in the house! Mah ranger! Get your ass over here." [Aragorn breaks eye contact, walks over to Elrond, they embrace. Boromir, still glaring, takes this in] Glorfindel: "Pack of Southern Stars, dollar fifty." [He pays up, leaves.] ...While never explicit in the Appendix, Tolkien has since intimated in various Q&A's that it was Boromir who then keyed Aragorn's mustang. ;~)
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This is fucking ridiculous I CANNOT WAIT ANY LONGER!!!! I am so desperate to keep myself amused as time slowly ticks onwards that I went to the cinema with my brother last night and watched Die Another Day. I wont go into it too much detail about that suckfest, suffice it to say that it was utterly CRAP and if anything made me even more desperate to see TTT!!!! Roll on 8pm Wednesday.....are you listening 'time'? I said ROLL ON 8pm WEDNESDAY!!!!!
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Although I see your point, buddy -not all Tolkien fans are dorks who sit in a dark basement fantasizing about the ever elusive moist box while clutching their limp penises which only seem to get hard at the sight of a hobbit - you still fall into a certain category of fan. Your underwhelming defense of the film is just another feeble attempt to change the wicked. Just ignore the haters and love the films. Spewing hatred back only feeds their phony, lying-ass fires.
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Actually, thats my plan for tomorrow night. When I get home from work I'll chuck on FOTR SE and sit back with a few beers and let the evening gently pass. Before I know it, it'll be Wednesday and all I gotta do is get thru is work and then I'm on my way to the Cinema. HOO-FRICKING -RAY!!!
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A nigger does not have the right to satisfy his desires.
A nigger cannot have dignity.
A nigger cannot mingle with his non-smoking Masters.
A nigger cannot have rights, and opinions that are in conflict with the non-smoking Master Race.
The niggers' needs have to submit to the ones of the non-smoking Masters.
An old nigger cannot stay in the comfort of a hospice.
A nigger deserves to die for his/her indulgence.
A nigger cannot parent children.
A nigger's children have to be taught by the state on the inferiority of his parents -- and taken away as punishment if the nigger disagrees with the state.
A nigger cannot have a home. -
BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST BAN JESUS CHRIST!!!!! DO IT NOW!!!!!!!!!
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What? Is this a race to the bottom between JC and Possibly? Dante had special places in Hell for people like you.
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Its times like this that I genuinely believe that I did live in a place like Hobbiton. Where racist idiots like JC dont exist!! Seriously though, its awful enough to have to read shit like that but frankly I dont know what thought disturbs me more....that thought that he/she were trying to be 'funny' with that 'post', or they are in fact being serious in some way. Either way it sickens me. If I thought for one second Heaven or Hell existed, that brainless fool would be one of the first I'd happily boot into hell's torturous pit!!!!!!
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You don't even have to click the link to know that a LOTR vs Star Wars debate has taken place. Get some new material, for fuck's sake! As for TTT, it should be great - most reviews are very positive with Helm's Deep rated as one of the greatest battle scenes ever, albeit after a slow, patient build-up. They do seem to drone on about the battle to the exclusion of all else - are the first 2 hours boring? I hope not, but a few reviews lean that way. Whatever... Helm's Deep certainly ends the second movie in a far more epic style than the first, and I'd still only rate FOTR 7 or 8, so I'm hoping for much better from TTT! 10 even!!!
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Are you for niggers or against them? I can't work it out. I guess that in your lame-ass way you're trying to make the point that LOTR is racist etc. blah blah blah. Well, fuck you, Jesus - because LOTR is racist - and who cares?. Yes the orcs represent niggers and the haradrim represent sand-niggers. So what, get over it. We live in a racist world and you can bet that even the liberal, bleedin' heart lefties on this talkback are racist too, though they'll pretend to get all outraged at your nigger post.
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just tried to pick up more tickets for my father in law and they are sold out until Monday?
Who would have thought -
Jesus is black.
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It's a comparison of smokers becoming the new "nigger" - i.e: a persecuted minority - but here JC used Star Wars as the subject ***Copy his diatribe into Yahoo search and you get this site: http://www.forces.org/writers/turci/files/niggers.htm
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It is obvious that some of the people posting here are either ignorant or stupid. Hopefully, they are ignorant, because ignorance can be remedied through study and thoughtful reflection. Stupidity, however, is there to stay, and since I am by nature a pessimist, I think these people are stupid. Here's a test. If you post messages about the benefits of the Holocaust or the rights that "niggers" should not enjoy because this is what you have been taught to say, then you are likely ignorant. There is still hope for you. Go out and improve yourself before you die and come back as a cabbage or something. If you post such drivel because you think it's funny, you are stupid. Unfortunately for you, upon your death you get a one-way, express ticket to the Hell of the Upside-down Sinners, or possibly the Hell Where People are Skinned Alive. Either way, no more fun for you. Ever. Sorry, I don't make up the rules. Adios.
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But I intend to go for distance, and what's one more day of anticipation? Just hope they have't sold out all the weekend performances; perhaps I should book ahead. I don't know about Helm's Deep and the critics, but for me, the most exciting previewed bits have been the simple scenes with Frodo and Sam, like the one they showed on Charlie Rose. Just loved Frodo's quiet, despairing intensity at the very thought of using the Ring again....
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Firstly, where the hell did you get the idea that Tolkien wrote a racist book? Orcs are supposed to be black people??? I have read the book and seen the movie and I never once got that impression. They are not human, they are creatures created by Saruman. It seems to me that if anyone is racist, it is you. You casually refer to black people as 'niggers' which is a term of abuse as far as I'm concerned. And even if you're just doing this to be ironic, it's still racist. Jesus Christ is just a mindless idiot who spews hate. But you seem to back up this hatred with a half-assed argument which seems to encourage racism. And I think that's nore dangerous.
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I still think that his post is very unappropriate, simply cos for the average reader, it looks like a racist remark. Perhaps if he explained just what the hell he was on about somewhere in that post he mightve been spared our wrath -though its unlikely. On that link you posted for the article he copied and pasted his post from, the writer clearly explains his reasoning for using the word 'nigger'....unlike a certain Jesus Christ.
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Dec 16, 2002 3:13:38 PM CST
Lemming....if you talk like a bitch I'll slap ya like a bitch
by skyway_moaters
Go back and read my post again, you MORON. I am NOT a racist but I think Tolkien definitely was and to be honest, I think that LOTR is better off with just white people as the main characters. And there's not a single person on this talkback that would disagree. A jive-talking Frodo just wouldn't fit in - nor would an Uncle Tom Aragorn. White people just suit these roles better.
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You fools are just encouraging this loser. He/She is a fucking dork with nothing better to do than bait strangers in pathetic talkbacks. Just ignore the dink. Now he's got the idea that he's important. You're not, by the way, JC - your daddy still fucked you and your mommy still beat you, and nothing will change that, you worthless asswipe.
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Watching my taped CSI from last week I managed to undo weeks of careful spoiler-avoidance. Of course once I saw it I had to rewind a couple of times
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How the FUCK is LOTR racist? If it were a book/film about blacks being ill-treated and it in some way glorified or praised this behaviour, I would agree 150%. But seeing as it doesnt and that to agree with you I would have to buy the crazy notion that orcs=blacks, I think instead I'll just tell you to go fuck yourself!!! I am SICK AND TIRED of losers saying this book/film is racist!!!! Each and every time I've watched the film never once have I thought, 'Hmm...you know what? This film is outrageously racist -those orcs there being slaughtered, clearly they represent black people!!' Ok there are no blacks in it, so? There are no whites in the film Boys in the Hood? Surely its only racist if it glorfies racist acts or racist propaganda!! Oh and one more thing, while I agree that in order to reflect the characters in the book properly they probably should be white, to say "A jive-talking Frodo just wouldn't fit in - nor would an Uncle Tom Aragorn" is a pretty dodgy, walking on thin ice kinda comment in my book. ANYWAY...ENOUGH ON THE SUBJECT. I JUST WANNA WATCH TTT!!!!!!!!
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Dec 16, 2002 3:47:55 PM CST
[quietly pretending the last dozen or so posts never, ever happe
by pallando blue
I've managed not to read any reviews (except the, um headlines over at rottentomatoes.com -- 96% fresh!) but I figure all officially released trailers and commercials are fair game. Hey, we all have our convenient rationalizations, right? :) As for the "references", that first one's a reworking of the old chestnut "Yes, Virginia, There Is A Santa Clause" ...an 1897 editorial responding to a real letter from an 8-year-old girl to the New York Sun, written by editor Frank B. Church and dragged out again here and there this time of the year. I just happened to see it reprinted in the Dear Abbey below the crossword I was doing that morning, and mentally started replacing every Santa Clause with Peter Jackson. ...Then replace child with geek, man with average moviegoer and voila! Writes itself. Oh yeah, swap out "Ewoks" for "fairies" ;). *** As for the others, golly, you mean you've only seen Pulp Fiction one time or, heavens, less? Has not the vaunted Quentin dialogue burned itself into your consciousness? Okay, so maybe it's a guy thing. Anyway, Walrus got the whole Middle-earth qua Tarantino ball rolling a couple TBs ago, I'm just kicking it further downhill once in a while. :)
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I can't believe I added an E to "Santa Claus" just now, not once but TWICE. Brain saturated by seasonal Tim Allen cash-in advertising. I am SUCH a victim of the Mouse Marketing Mind-Control Machine. Please... please look away, I'm... hideous....
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I was referring to Jesus Christ in my previous blast. And in regards to my "underwhelming" comment. I was simply suggesting that we stop bothering with the LOTR haters, b/c our defenses for the movie are falling on deaf ears. And anyway, I really don't believe people who say they don't like the films. I think they are A) trying to be different, or B) trying to bait ever-so-sensitive fans. Either way, why bother with them? We know the films are great, and all we can do is wait for Wednesday!
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Holy crap! You're right!!! How devilishly sinister!! What sort of gimp would masquerade as another poster to try and get him/her banned!!!! May I take this opportunity to apologise to the real Skyway Motors for my rather scathing attack. All I can say was I've only recently started to voice my opinion on these talkbacks and have yet to familierise myself with all the 'regulars'. Sorry guys! Wont happen again. To the 'imposter' I simply say this.......LOSER!!
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All you dungeonmasters who thought I was crazy for pointing out how racist and anti-Semitic Lord of the Rings is are eating crow now, aren't you? HAHAHAHAHA! LOTR came out shortly after Strom Thurmond's Dixiecrat campaign. Can it possibly be a coincidence that just days before the Twin Towers hits theatres, Trent Lott is caught on TV saying that Thurmond was right? Thurmond's candidacy opposed laws against LYNCHING for Pete's sake! Strom Thurmond inspired Lord of the Rings AND Trent Lott.
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Its true, we can be as articulate or as clever as we like. Our arguements can be as convincing and heartfelt as we can make them, but there are still those who will simply refuse to accept anything we say. Ah well...to each their own. You, me, morGoth and the others all know just how GREAT LOTR is, in both written and cinematic forms! We know that this trilogy is gonna make cinematic history in the very best possible way and we're all here to witness it!! THREE CHEERS FOR TOLKIEN and PETER JACKSON!!!!!!
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I mean it. Really. Or why not actually attempt to do something positive on a talkback, just once. This talkback has been witness to some agonizingly hateful people, why not unleash your tired invective on them. If not, then simply give it a rest. Your words have lost their value to shock a long time ago, now they just produce weariness. Find a different dead equine to flog.
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Dec 16, 2002 4:57:54 PM CST
PUD!! What another......*yawns*.......interesting.......point...
by snake-eyes
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!
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I'm assuming you must be celebrating on the 19th. **And Snake-Eyes, welcome to our midst.
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Notice that that the imposter is Skyway_Moaters NOT Skyway Moaters. Just what in gods name is going on here?! Sharna Pax an' get the poal!!! (just to prove this is really me). I speechless, a first for me! I shall write to Harry post haste!
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You know, a lot of trolls are playing the race card and it's an easy one to play. But I personally don't believe Tolkien was being DELIBERATELY racist, in the same way that morgoth, pallando etc are not being DELIBERATELY racist. And the last thing I would describe myself as being is racist. But the fact remains that we ARE all racist, whether we like it or not, because we enjoy and endorse a book like LOTR which is practically a bible for racial purity. Now don't say it isn't, because there are so many references to "lineage" and "pure bloodlines," and the "foul" mingling of races e.g. crossing orcs with goblin-men to create a new race of evil super-negroes. It's all there right in the book, so it would be hypocritical of us to deny it. Trubba not, namarie lemon
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...just check the e-mail addys! This asshole's is : whitesheet@aintitcoolmail.com. Mine has been skywaymoaters@yahoo.com since I started posting here. *** Better watch your back, or at least get a good firewall, skyway_moaters, 'cause I'm gonna take you down motherfucker. I already know your IP address... *** Namarie gentle posters, an' Trubba not, this latest troll has broke me heart... SM{;-0
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Man, I don't know what you're talking about, but you must be smoking some serious weed. Okay, firstly - Skyway, have you actually read the book? The crossing of orcs and goblin men was in the movie but I'm 90% sure it wasn't in the book. Tolkien was definitely not writing a 'Mein Kampf' style manifesto on racial purity. He was writing a heroic romance based on Scandinavian folklore and that's why there is all that emphasis on bloodlines and ancestry - it's all part of those mythological stories and is totally innocent. Not that you care because you sound pretty entrenched in your views. But you're dead wrong, Hooters, or whatever you're calling yourself and you're the one who will lose out if you ever say your opinions in public...
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Thx for the welcome DOT....'ppreciate it! And Skyway Moaters, good luck in destroying the imposter!! Time for bed now I think....fresh for the last full day without TTT!!!
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Dec 16, 2002 7:47:37 PM CST
FilmThreat.com's TTT review -- SW fans DO NOT READ THIS!
by butch_mctavish
Another great review (not that it matters, really). Have to say, though, I don't agree with planting Lucas in his plot of earth just yet. Check it out:
http://www.filmthreat.com/Reviews.asp?Id=3869 -
Humble apologies to the real Skyway...the imposter is a moron though.
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...seemingly, you're the only one who noticed the fraud. Pollando, BUDDY, where were ya when an ol' broken down conexxions man needed your support? ... or perhaps, (and I'll take this bet) you just refused to dignify this mess with a response, knowing that I would never stoop to something this despicable?
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Dec 16, 2002 8:53:41 PM CST
I don't noramally do this but in this case I would say I'm justi
by skyway moaters
... I have read this "tail end with ever increasing horror. I may never totally clear my name! Then, PUD! shows up and suddenly it all comes "nice and sparkling clear". PUD! is Skyway_Moaters. I posted the following in response to one of his imbecillic racists rants a couple of TB's ago wherein he proclaims that Hobbits are obviously "White Lawn Jockeys", and apparently it really got under his skin: PUD! The depth of your delusion is truly staggering... Comment: ...where do I begin? Your last post is the
clearest example of "hate speech" in this rather fetid
TB. You accuse Tolkien of homophobia and then proceed
to bash gays (and Englishmen?!) with total abandon.
Good=white and black=evil is a religious metaphor
found in any religious canon you care to site. Light
=day or -
First I'm supposedly responsibe for morGoth's virus. Now I'm the Skyway Moaters doppelganger? As Rutger Hauer said in Buffy the Vampire slayer (the movie -not that TV horseshit!) -PUH-LEEZH! If someone is impersonating you, then by all means, sock it to 'em. I think Trent Lott is getting a raw deal. Is he the only one who sucked up to Bob Jones University? NO! Is he the only one thinks the federal government does too much to preserve the rights of minorities? NO! Is he the only official who wishes the Confederacy has won? NO! If Lott has to go, so do Lindsey Graham and John Ashcroft. They are all probably Tolkien fans.
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Even if I AM banned in a case of "mistaken identity", I will simply 're-incarnate" as another character from "Riddley Walker" and continue to verbally eviscerate disgusting trolling morons such as yourself. Furthermore, the fallacy of relying on the anonymity of the web to cover your tracks when delivering hate speech, is that you never know when you're going to run into a SYSOP with 20 twenty years experience in the IT field who is also a certified network security expert, and has a background in network hacking; IE: ME!
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...watch out you drooling ignoramus. I'm comin' for ye boyo! HA HA HA, heh heh heh, grrrr...
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I think Spielberg could do a convincing Hobbit film. He could whip up something fierce
the whip thing just came to me.
But it relates, so there!
indiana? -
TTT on Friday! (I know its two days later but...a mans gotta pay rent) I will accompanied by a lovely blond gal from a surfing town in New Zealand!) woo!
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... I never meant to "diss" "Peter Pan". It was simply the first story that came to mind that concerns 'pixies', and it is somewhat more generally recognized "children's literature" than LOTR; (never ceases to amaze me. As DoT has said: "LOTR is a PROFOUNDLY adult novel"). Don't get me wrong, I recognize that PP has a lot more depth than the tight the assed proponents of "adult reading" vs "children's reading" will ever have the mental capacity to comprehend. IMO, 'Wonder' is essential to a healthy human soul, and as human beings, it should enrich our lives no matter how old we become. I pity the poor benighted souls who will never understand this.
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..what would your reaction be if someone "hijacked" your online identity in order to spew hate speech? I didn't threaten him, just his data. I'm a physical pacifist dude. Go bug someone else for a change.
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You mention that Tolkien includes "light (good) elves" and "dark (evil) elves." IIRC, the dark elves were not evil at all as a race. Light and dark referred to the elves who had been to Valinor and had seen the light of the Two Trees, Telperion and Laurelin, before Morgoth and Ungoliant killed the Trees. The dark elves were simply those who stayed in Middle Earth, and probably those who were born in ME after the Trees died as well, and never saw the light. The division between the two has nothing to do with their respective moral qualities; I believe that the whole "dark elf=evil" thing came about with the Drow in Dungeons and Dragons.
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No need to see TTT & ROTK. :p
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Yes, the dark elves in Norse mythology are "swart" elves, whatever that means, and they could be confused with dwarves. This means nothing in terms of Tolkien, however, because his light and dark elves were divided along the lines described above; they were NOT divided by their morality or skin color (all elves apparently were white-skinned). BTW, Skyway-DOT-Moater (yeah, I noticed the period in your name), would you mind clarifying your rather cryptic statement for those of us who have been up for the past 22 hours writing a paper? Thanks.
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Wouldnt suprise me at all. Racist bastard.
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... I did write to the webmaster and to Harry. And this is the last time I'm ever going to reply to anything Wong has to say: Fuck you Shepherd. Hope you have fun pulling some other poor unsuspecting fool's chain. I'm done. Stick a fork in me. Paint a big fucking L on my motherfucking forhead. You are part of the biggest problem our species has: The way people treat each other. Makes me sick. If it's not PUD! posting under the "Moaters variations", it's probably you, and you're probably sniggering like Beavis and Butthead right down the lane. Just remember this: What goes around, comes around, eventually, EVERYONE has to pay the piper. You treat other people badly enough, for long enough, it always catches up. Namarie Tail-Enders, over and out. The trolls win. I can't take the hassle anymore. Congratualations Shepherd. I hope this really get's your rocks off.
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Well, at least the impostor is gone now and we don't have to deal with his inanities anymore. Good riddance, jackass.
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...but PUD! don't know that! You caught me...
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...those last two posts: "For the record" and "Right you are" are by the 'real' Skyway Moaters. I knew I was making a mistake with the 'dark elves' thing I sort of lost track of where I was going with that anti-racism post seemingly, but I really am done now. I can hear 'Aunty' coming for me on her gyint rat... *** Namarie Mellyn, but I can't say Trubba Not no more,'cause this TB is Trubba right enuff. I hereby surrender TATOW to stronger minds...
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No problem, real SM. I was referring to the guy who put the dot in your name. Your posts are fine. Keep it up!
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I must join you in dispelling this Dungeons & Dragons stereotype. I almost told Shepherd Wong earlier that I was preparing to withdraw the modicum of respect I'd granted him, when he began stereotyping us. Mr. Wong, I, too, am post-50; have never played D&D; do not read fantasy other than LOTR but do read Twain, Dostoyevsky, Raymond Chandler, Josephine Tey, and - sometimes - Carl Haiasson (sp?). I don't believe in genres; I believe in quality. I haven't read a comic book in 40 years, but confess to a great admiration for the creator of Scrooge McDuck. I have, at one time or another, enjoyed and participated in theatre, opera, fencing, karate and dressage (that's a form of horseback-riding). However, I will confess, when I was living in Minnesota I used to routinely ATTEND THE RENAISSANCE FESTIVAL near Shakopee. And so did thousands of other quite normal, non D&D-playing people. It had much higher quality food and crafts than the average fair; an annual Shakespeare competition (in which my sister once placed highly); and acres of rolling land, oak trees and permanent buildings of a charm rivaling Hobbiton. Just being there early in the day was absolutely beautiful, with the smell of the woodsmoke and fresh-turned earth of the emptyjousting field, before the crowds showed up.... If there's anything we represent here, it's a VARIETY of experiences - and a shared love of LOTR.
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... I noticed that the ".Moaters" had (supposedly) bowed out, and that that was what you were referring to only after I made my last post; happens alot in TB. *** This for Wong: "Lle naa haran e
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Dec 17, 2002 2:39:45 AM CST
Again. That last post? Not me. Check the e-mail address...
by skyway moaters
...not quite sure how he did it yet, but I'll figure it out. The last 'Skyway post' is by someone who registered for TB with an e-mail address of: AbsolutTrotsky@aol.com *** Some sort of spoof. Time to retire this handle. See you all later. You're waaaay coooool AbsolutTrotsky. Thanks a lot. You've really bolstered my faith in humanity. Better watch out for "the bus" though...
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Pud uses the email address of: jelperman@swbell.net. Shepherd Wong uses the eamil address of jlpjlp@swbell.net. A coincidence? Perhaps, but I don't really think so. Pud, I recall you stating on a previous TB that your're not really very talented with computers. If so, you'd better be careful. You wouldn't want to start pissing off hardcore hackers. Just my thoughts though. Do what you like. Don't bother trying to send me any viruses. My system will pick them up in an instant and I might have to return some... P.S. 8 more days til I see TTT. Cheers.
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Pud uses the email address of: jelperman@swbell.net. Shepherd Wong uses the eamil address of jlpjlp@swbell.net. A coincidence? Perhaps, but I don't really think so. Pud, I recall you stating on a previous TB that your're not really very talented with computers. If so, you'd better be careful. You wouldn't want to start pissing off hardcore hackers. Just my thoughts though. Do what you like. Don't bother trying to send me any viruses. My system will pick them up in an instant and I might have to return some... P.S. 8 more days til I see TTT. Cheers.
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PRAISE HARRY ILLUVATAR, and/or his wise and discerning Webmaster: PRAISE THEM WITH GREAT PRAISE. Yon trollers hath been banished!
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Dec 17, 2002 5:56:58 AM CST
Isn't that odd? I think I have just figured ou how the TB order
by skyway moaters
...It's when they BAN SOMEONE! I'll never bitch about the posting order again! *** 30 hours and 3 minutes 'til I seee T2T!!!!!
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It is Wednesday. Lucky bastards.
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I mixed you up with the naughty one.
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Dec 17, 2002 10:12:46 AM CST
Will the real Slim Skyway please stand up? Please stand up? Plea
by pallando blue
Whoops, shouldn't go referencing a white artist co-opting black culture around here, should I... HEH! Thousand pardons for not getting your back like morG ol' buddy (et al) did for ya, Skyway! I honestly didn't realize your back needed gettin'! After JC's little screed I hardly looked at the (righteously) vile responses, just sadly scanned down til I came across Runelord sayin me handle. I didn't see the underscore or ID theft, but I didn't read "your" >coughshyeahhacksnifflesnarfle< Oh my goodness, better'n a cup a coffee is a larf like that in the mornin! [And I likes my coffee likes I likes my humor: black, baby, with just a little bit o sugah ;) ] *** Oh my goodness redux. By this time tomorrow I oughta be shuffling indoors with the rest of the line... Since the clock will chime midnight tomorrow night somewhere in the Second Act (Faramir? Fangorn?) during my second viewing (woo-hoo!) a quick Happy B-Day to ya now, Mofo! *** All right then! Off to mock and oppress some minorities on the way to the costume shop for my Ren-Fair outfit to be worn in the theater line as we play D&D ALL NIGHT LONG! (The BEST part is the tacit racism inherent in the fantasy stereotypes! That and getting out of my mom's basement! And the social opppression of minorities--wait, did I say that one already?) ;~D See y'all in a post-T2T world! NAMARIE!
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You give me a smile on a rainy Tuesday morning. ***Aside to my friends: Blew up at She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed last night. Had already told other bosses that this is not working and a replacement must be found; told them last night that solution must be found FASTER. Glory be, they are on my side. In fact, senior female partner stuck her head in and began to chuckle. They assured me that it is not "me" and I must not take psychotic behavior personally. Other bosses being extra nice today. I have not ventured down the corridor to the Other End. I suppose I am still stuck getting her a Christmas present.
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No offense taken, Elanor. I was responding more in a general way. However, since it's come up, I haven't been there in 13 years, but for many years running, the annual Renaissance Festival in Shakopee, Minnesota (southwest of the Twin Cities) was a complete joy, and the thing I most miss about Minnesota. It wasn't just a "fair" but a permanent medieval/Elizabethan village set on rolling acres near the river, with three or four major outdoor stages, music and dancing, booths selling food not necessarily authentic but at least hobbitish and hearty (the cheese bratwursts were excellent), as well as several taverns, and crafts carefully vetted to include quality pottery, glassware, hand-crafted furniture and the like. There were also various martial arts competitions, from caber-throwing to jousting (real horses; real full-length field with stands). And it was held (presumably still is) every weekend in September, when the leaves were just turning. As in life, you could take or leave various aspects of it, like the "wenches" doing laundry and rolling in the mud down by the well, or the strolling Ratcatcher (no plague wagons, however), but all in all, it was as close as one is likely to get to being in Hobbiton, complete with well-grown old trees. Whether any of the other festivals can compete, I don't know - I can't imagine they'd have had such a perfect setting. (Obviously, it took in a lot of money, that they could pay to hold that idyllic site year after year and maintain the buildings, for only four weekends.) Anyway, Elanor, see you on the other site, where I've been making a lot of typos today!
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Well, as I'm just in from the belgian avant-premiere of TTT (12.18am), I might be the first one with some news. Unfortunatly, it's not really good. You know, in the first part, I was able to accept the changes PJ had to make to translate the book to the movie even though I didn't always like it but in the TTT he makes what I believe to be errors in judgment. He not only cuts scenes from the book (I can live with that, 3 hours is already a lot of movie) but he invents all new ones which are not good and really irk the people who read the books. The CGI is wonderful and there are truly some breathtaking scenes and battles but storywise the movie doesn't seem to go anywhere much. The Ents are OK, Gollum is...hm...not what I expected (reminded my friend and I of Dobby the House Elf from Harry Potter, that can't be good). The movie in itself is okay, not fantastic like the first, but do-able for people who haven't read the books. I kept thinking that Peter Jackson had a different version of TTT lying around, one no one but he has read. Nope, I'm disappointed.
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Moaters, look what you
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