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The Last SOPRANOS Until Next Autumn!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
What does TV Guide say about 4.13, “Whitecaps”?
The Emmy-winning mob drama brings down the curtain on its fourth season. As always, the plot lines were plentiful and unpredictable. Who would have thought that sparks would fly between Furio and Carmela, Christopher would check into rehab and Ralph would lose his head over a horse? In tonight's finale, Tony and Carmela look into buying a shore house; his boat goes high-tech; and the New York and New Jersey families eye each other warily as they consider the future. Although fans had to endure a 16-month hiatus between seasons three and four, the series' fifth season will commence in less than a year: New episodes are slated for September 2003.
What is TV Guide not telling us?
Tony and Carmella split up this week. As a result, Tony tries to get out of buying the shore house, but the seller won’t let him. T uses Dean Martin to extricate himself.
VCR alert: tonight’s episode is a supersized 80 minutes.
9 p.m. Sunday. HBO.
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good season DVD sets? Anyone?
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Dec 08, 2002 5:46:55 PM CST
My pre-show prediction: Carmela is out the door, & the season en
by ralph cifaretto
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Yes, you should watch this show. I don't have HBO, but luckily every episode can be easily downloaded.
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the first season was definatly a 9! almost every episode was good, they had to set everything up though which was alright, and it proved what we would soon know 100%..... Paulie rules. the second season was a fucking ace of a 10 solid unbreakable 10, every episode was excellent! then the 3rd season came, it started with a bang (the two hour split episode between the sopranos and the FBI i loved(fuckin water heater LOL) but the rest of the season was kind of a letdown after the beyond cool 2nd season... still alot of Good eps and the 3rd season spawned what i think, was the best episode of the series "Pine Barrons" (i love Paulie in this ep) 3rd seasonis a solid 8 i think. now we have the fourth season..... i think it's the worst thus far but still has had some great eps... first, i've never like ralph... i like Joe pantiolanioWHATEVERTHEFUCK but i don't like ralphie, the third season where he's obsessed with gladiator and he beats up women? i couldn't fucking wait for him to die... but they dragged him into the fourth season and made me wait until half the season was over before they killed him, and i hated the way they tried to make him human and make us care for him before they killed him... cause as soon as i saw they wanted me to care, i knew it was a trick and they were gonna kil him and sure as shit they did. overall i think i'd give the 4th season a solid 7(although rating may jump to 8 if the season finale completly blows me away tonight... but thats doubtful).----------------------------- i hope that the fifth and final season isn't a 6... i hope it's a fucking 10 !!! ah to hellwith it, a sub-par sopranos is still better then fucking ANY sitcom today and all the providence gilmore girls dawsons creek buffy type shit... man i hate TV... futurama, simpsons, sopranos, west wing, TwentyFour, THOSe are the good shows on TV...
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Re: Carmela and Tony. Thanks for ruining it for us.
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Dec 08, 2002 6:33:18 PM CST
Deacon, Ralph was the most interesting character on the show, po
by terry_1978
You weren't supposed to like the man, but those character flaws he had are what made him a standout character among the rest of them. You never knew what you were getting whenever he was part of the mix.
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For ruining the Ending!!
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this season blew. Better shows this year 24, The Shield, Buffy, Angel, Alias. I'm sure there are more. They could have condensed this season to 1 episode worth of stuff watching. Jimmy Fallon said it best last night "The 1st 3 seasons of the Sopranos led to an increase in therapy while the 4th season made people BORING." You still want to watch to see if they can recapture the magic of the first seasons. kill janice.
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Dec 08, 2002 8:40:30 PM CST
I feel sorry for anyone that sees Jimmy Fallon as a font of wisd
by wash
...and Sopranos was fine this season.
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Start on the first and best season 1 dvd.
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I think Christopher will get whacked. The way they hyped the whole season, was to make you think something unthinkable would happen. Of course the most unthinkable would be Tony getting knocked off, but I can't imagine the show going on without him. Unless the whole idea of another season is a lie to keep you from figuring out the ending....but that's a stretch, so next in mind would be Christopher...or Carmella....or...
Ok, I give up...I'll just wait and see. -
I agreee with a lot of what you said. But you should do yourself a favor and check out "Buffy" at some point. If someone would have told me a year and a half ago that I would be addicted to a show about vampire slayers... Trust the big blue monster here, and give the show a shot. And oh, yeah. Carmella had a beer and cheeted on Tony with Furio two weeks ago.
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You people DO know that Herc is a dirty Jew, don't you? You should stop posting in his TBs.
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After a rather slow, up and down season, this was a smashing finale. The full-scale Tony and Carmela blow-out was far more dramatic than any whacking.
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You people should know not to read this shit if you don't want things spoiled. Good god.
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no one died? Thats a first for the series right? someone usually gets clipped real bad the last episode... (to my knowledge...)(fill me in...)
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Now we have to wait till next september........Good God.
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I was sure Sack was gonna try something with Tony, or Meadow was gonna drive off angry and die in a car accident or something due to her frustration of the separation thing. I was waiting for that attorney guy to get his though...I know people like that from college and work, and they annoy me to no avail. Furio is gonna be in trouble if he decides to visit the old gang next season, that's all I gotta say. And PeterNorth, as a "black guy", I must say I take offense to your saying we don't count. You trying to start something, chief? I'm just messing with ya, dude...but no doubt there are people that would take that innocent phrase of yours outta context if not for your earlier exposition....;)
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Just wondering...
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Dec 08, 2002 10:39:59 PM CST
One aspect of the show that has not slipped this season - the ac
by ralph cifaretto
No gangster plotlines resovled during the finale? What's up with that? I'm tired of seeing major characters die in the finale (Richie, Pussy, Jackie), but I would have liked to see some gangster shit to contrast the marriage implosion.
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They never kill anyone on the finale. They leave things hanging for the next season. Next season will have the big ending.
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Drink to me only... that's all I ask.
And I will drink to you.
I don't care if the sun don't shine.
I do my drinking in the evening time.
When I'm in Las Vegas.
You can sit in the sun and camp.
I get my color from a sun ray lamp.
When I'm in Las Vegas.
I love the laughs, I love the life, there's fun of every kind.
Next time I come I'll bring my wife, I'll do that if I lose my mind.
A wife in Vegas take my advice,
It's like going to China with a sack of rice.
But I love Las Vegas.
I love Vegas in the summer.
mmmmmm I love Vegas in the fall.
I love Vegas, when I say that it's a gasser.
I love Vegas like it's Egypt and I'm Nasser
I, I love Vegas every moment,
It's my favorite atmosphere
Oh I, I love Vegas,
Why oh why do I love Vegas?
Because my money's here.
I love Vegas when I'm winning,
mmmmmm I love it when I lose.
I love Vegas, like the army loves it's manuals.
I love Vegas, like Sinatra loves Jack Daniels.
I, I love Vegas every moment.
For Mr. Andratta I must cheer.
Oh I, I love Vegas,
Ich liebe du, I love Vegas.
Because my blood is here.
I love Vegas when I'm loaded,
I love it when I am not.
I love Vegas, just like Kruschev loves being indignant,
More than even my wife Jeannie loves being pregnant.
I, I love Vegas every moment,
When I leave I shed a tear.
Oh I, I love Vegas,
Jesus Christ do I love Vegas.
I'll make it, make it good and clear,
It's because... my girl's right here.
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Was that really the Sopranos or did I accidentally tune in to an old Knot's Landing episode? It would have sucked anyway, but the hype made it even more of a letdown. I was expecting Goodfellas and instead I got Ordinary People.
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Tonight's Sopranos was one of the show's greatest episodes. Thankfully, I did not read Herc's spoiler and had no idea that Tony and Carm were going to split. The emotional blowout between the two was as captivating and suspenseful as any murder scene could have been. I'm getting sick and tired of all the Sopranos "fans" who bash every episode in which their is no major whack job. Chase can't kill off a character every episode. And yes--it was a season finale, but that doesn't necessarily mean there has to be a whack job. Hell, Jackie Jr. got whacked in the last finale, and that episode was lacking a lot of the suspense and emotion that we saw in this ep. There will be another season in less then a year, and there will be more whack jobs, so, in the mean time, calm down and be thankful that we have a show that's even half as compelling as HBO's mob drama.
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So, outside of the would-be hitmen, no one got whacked. Who cares? If a major character "had" gotten whacked, you'd all be complaining that it's become predictible. And didn't we just have a major character get whacked only a couple of weeks ago? If they did that every couple of episodes eventually everyone would be dead. If that's the only reason you watch this show, then you're missing the point. Watching Gandolfini and Falco go toe-to-toe was fantastic! A pair of powerful performances. Definitely one of the best of the season. Oh, and Tall_Boy? Get thee to a dvd store, immediately!
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Last season was just story after story that went no where. The rape, the twin brother, The FBI
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Nope. Just checked. Still there. Red and stand-outie as ever.
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thanks a lot for ruining the episode by the way. anyway, great episode, both actors will be getting Emmy's this year. very powerful performances
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That was a pretty damn good episode tonight. I have to say that the tension level was pretty high. I never knew what to expect. How many times did I want to hit Carm'? I loved the punch through the wall. That scene was just so visceral, you could cut the tension with a knife. I kept thinking a double-cross was coming, someone getting whacked, looking behind characters' backs. Anyways, I loved the payback Tony got on the lawyer. That was friggin' priceless. He is one sonofabitch, that's for sure. The Stugots just sitting out in the water, looming, glaring at that lawyer, driving his wife crazy. That just screams that Tony will always win. He's a tenacious bastard. He's smart. He'll get through this all, just you wait and see. And, I'm happy I only have to wait until September. Any longer and I'd go nuts. And to everyone yelling at Herc for the spoilers, screw yourselves! He put the SPOILER button up there and, if you come on this site, you have to know that you'll read something you probably don't want to. Why even look at an article about the ep' before you see it? You have nobody to blame but yourselves. Rock on Herc. Later. PS - I missed watching the Packers-Vikings game to watch this show. That takes some friggin' dedication. Sopranos fo-ever!
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First off, "They never kill anyone on the finale." Hmm, if memory serves Mikey Palmice and one or two others got it season one. Then Pussy season two, and Jackie Jr. season three. They sound like someone. Secondly, "That just screams that Tony will always win. He's a tenacious bastard. He's smart. He'll get through this all, just you wait and see." Oh how you have been tricked into thinking so. I'm going to lay my hand out on the table right now. I enjoy The Sopranos and The Godfather movies from an artistic standpoint. To be honest, I didn't care that much for Goodfellas, but I did like Casino because it wasn't quite a mob story and the way it was told is very unique and stylish. That being said, it is time for all of you who post on this message board to stop worshipping the mob. Most all of you pay homage to this mentality of let's make a lot of money illegally, fuck anything that walks in front of me, kill some people cuz they'll take money from me, and treat my wife like she's a second rate piece of shit. Am I the only person who thinks that this is not the type of attitude that should be looked upon favorably? You guys think the Mob is so f'n cool because they do what they want, when they want. Well Jesus H., most all of them get it in the end. Which brings me to the line I quoted. Tony will not always win in the end. All the signs are there for it. Episode 1, "Things are trending downwards." That applies on so many levels, particularly the state of Tony's personal and business affairs, and the quality of this show. At the end of Season 4, I find only two episodes stand out: "The Weight," I think it was called, the one with Johnny wanting to whack Ralph, and the one where Ralphie did get it from Tony. Everything else basically sucked. Just like in Season 3, there were so many abandoned plotlines. The undercover nurse from the first episode? What, was that her briefly seen last week? Silvio disobeying Tony? No consequences. Silvio and Tony suddenly realizing Paulie probably fed Johnny info? They acted like it was no harm, no foul. What about Meadow threatening to quit school? She decides to go back, but the next time we see her with either of her parents, it was as if the whole thing never happened. Now granted, it might have happened off camera, but considering all the time they spent on it in the preceding episodes, you should see the resolution happen! The resolution of the Furio/Carmella storyline was totally and completely fucked up. He just moves back to Italy? No admittance between the two, no confrontation between Furio and Tony, after he would have found out? That is the one subplot they actually consistently pushed throughout the season, and its ending seemed like it was written by a third grader. Back to Tony always winning. When he was getting in Melfi's face two weeks ago about impulse control, and it leading to him making mistakes, guess what? It's going to lead to him making the ultimate mistake. Supposedly Chase and Gandolfini only want to do 5 seasons. Does anyone honestly think that this show can end with Tony alive? They've tried to build him up as some kind of tragic hero. Well guess what happens to tragic heroes? THEY ALL DIE. Name one tragic hero that lived. If anyone can, post in response and I'll see if I agree or not. But I can't think of anything. Also Tony Soprano is a horrible human being, for all the reasons I mentioned about the mob mentality. I have a big problem with those of you who said you wanted to see Carmella get knocked around by Tony. I think that says a lot about the psyche of you individuals. Oh, yea it's really f'n cool to see a woman get slapped around by a husband who has been serially unfaithful to her. That's exactly what she deserves. Now granted, she knows what he does and has long since become addicted to the nice posh lifestyle. Does that mean she still deserves to be lied to by her husband? Anyone who thinks so is a true moron. Yes, she had urges for Furio. Did she ever follow through? NO!. Why? She still loves her husband. She thought she could make it work. But the effort was never there from Tony. When did he ever tell her she was beautiful in any recent episode? This man can't love anymore, he's consumed by possession. I don't feel sorry for Tony. Why should anyone? And to the person who complained about trying to feel sorry for Ralphie after what happened to his kid? Jeez, I hope your kids never have some kind of accident. God help it if others should forgive your character flaws in a time of crisis. But that, of course, also showed that Ralph's demise was imminent. He showed remorse--the character came full circle. Apparently remorse is one trait that can't be found in any of these mobsters. Oh you might think Tony was sorry for getting Charles S. Dutton's cop demoted, or for the stripper getting beaten to death by Ralph, but what did he ever do to rectify either situation? He tries to give the cop extra money. The damage has already been done, Tony. You can't ask a proud man to take your hand me downs. He had the earlier chance to do something for the stripper, but rebuffed her. I could give a shit less if he feels bad after she's dead. What you need to realize is that Tony's flaws will be his ultimate undoing. He never shows meaningful remorse. He is unable to appreciate his wife or treat his childhood friend Artie with any respect at all. Like tonight, Artie offers his condolences, and Tony bitches about his f'n pasta. And now he's ended therapy. All because he didn't think it was helping. Fine, Tony, you're only enhancing your chances to have a bullet put through your brain. I've got to be honest. After being hooked on this show for a little while, and still making sure I catch the new episodes, which I will continue to do next year, I look forward to this show ending. Maybe then all of you mob worshippers will shut the hell up.
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Boomtown
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Mr. Zuckuss: Great post.
I was set to go find an example of a "tragic hero" that lived, but I thought of two things that I would like you to comment on:
1) If Tony is sucha dirtbag (and he is), then does he really fit the profile of a "tragic hero?" If not, then he wouldn't necessarily need to die to fulfill the "tragic hero" designation.
2) Similarly, is it possible to view the designation of "tragic hero" as REQUIRING the death of the character. If so, then it would not be definitially possible to find a tragic hero" who lives.
Any thoughts? -
1 - Will Munny (Clint Eastwood) in Unforgiven; 2 - The Outlaw Josey Wales (though he is redeemed partially within the film); 3 - The big one you missed - Michael Corleone in Godfather Part 2 - perfect example of a tragic hero left alive and alone at the end of the film. (And if you dismiss that one because of Godfather III, then this conversation is over.) Otherwise, I agree with you on both your major points - Tony Soprano is not someone to root for, and he will not be alive at the end of the series. The only effective emotion and humanity of the series comes from the damage Tony has done to his wife and children. Nearly every other subplot borders on tasteless humor, and more than occasionally falls into it.
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But it's true. This season was BORING. Here is why: this show used to be about something. There were overriding themes in the first couple of seasons. The show used to delve into Real topics, issues of the human condition, etc. Now it is simply a soap opera. Even that wouldn't be horrible (albeit, dissapointing), but this season seems poorly written compared to the last. I used to be compleatly surprised by most major plot twists. Now I'm anticipating them to the point where I hope I'm wrong - but alas I seldom are. I will surly tune in for the final season, but this show has jumped the shark. I look forward to Six Feet Under.
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I had hoped that fans of the show were not in it for the wackings. This series has been about the groups male/female relationships this year. Sack, Chris, and Tony's relationship with thier better halfs. Sack is the model. Tony's came undone due to his vices and lack of communication. Chris's stayed alive because the two could talk and work through their problems. The ending IS a cliffhanger and despite the fact that he is a scumball he still loves his wife. How will Tony act now that he's lost his one anchor of stability (and whatever chance he had of seeing the ducks again)?What's going to happen to Tony's children? Will Tony further destroy his family (wife and kids) by making this a messy divorce? considering his line of work, is he capable of doing it any other way? Cliffhanger does not always mean "did someone realy die in that car," "we've started a gang war now what," or "Paulie Wallnuts wants revenge on..." I thought the fans of this show were more sophisticated than that! It's like watching Goodfellas just to see Tommy get clipped and totally ignoring that the movie is realy about Henrey and Karen or not seeing that Casino is more about a couple than the mob.
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Dec 09, 2002 9:24:08 AM CST
It wasn't that Carmela was surprised, she's known about Tony's a
by no. 41
Hell, I think she knew back in episode 1. The point was that she was still distressed over Furio leaving - witness her (most likely) psychosomatic illness at the beginning of the episode. Getting that phone call was just the last straw. Did you see how she clutched her stomach? The stress of Furio and Tony's lying finally reached the boiling point and she couldn't take it anymore. Sure, she's known for ages that Tony's had all kinds of affairs, he's a mobster, she's not completely blind, just largely deluded. It was just the right combination of circumstances to send her off the deep end. This episode was brilliantly acted by Falco and Gandolfini, they should both win Emmys, then again they are almost always brilliant on this show. Those who carped about the lack of whackings or action totally missed the point, the Sopranos isn't just about the mob, it's about life in modern America. This was just a slice of life show. And season 5 is shaping up to be great.
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It just seems to me that people keep forgetting that when you look at the core of the show, it's a family drama about a guy in the mob. It's not a mob drama about a guy with a family. So for everyone who was disappointed there wasn't a whacking, get over it. This was one of the best episodes this show has ever produced, with two outstanding performances from Falco and Gandolfini.
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I can't believe all the pussies coming on hear bitching about the precious end of the show being spoiled. The whole fucking point of the site is getting information early. You don't want to take a chance finding out the ending then read the fucking TV guide.
And the finale rocked. -
I was a bit pissed at the SNL joke about THE SOPRANOS being boring this season. The main reason- Nobody on SNL should accuse any other show of being boring. That's a total pot/kettle situation if ever there was one. Second and most important reason- Contrary to popular opinion, this has not been a boring season. Season Two was a boring season. Not this one. There was so much emotional violence this year. (And I know some of you are saying "Emotional violence?! What kind of pussy shit is that?!" And that's fine. I understand.) The point is that I appreciate the fact that the show took the time to deal with things other than the usual mob stuff. They kept enough in to keep it going and they did a great job of building real and honest suspense. And I applaud them, particularly because it isn't a popular move, for not taking the easy routes. Whacking Carmine (or Sack) would have been an easy set-up for plot twists. I was impressed that they had Tony got back on his decision to whack Carmine. Why? Because it was the smart thing to do for the character. In a flyweight movie, they'd whack the boss and then "complications would arise". The usual stuff. But, like they often do, they took the more complicated route. Now Tony is in a very tough spot- he made the right decision as far as not putting himself in a position of power where Sack could screw him over at any given moment for any reason- and anybody who thinks Sack wanted Carmine out of the way for the good of all involved is not watching carefully enough. Now Tony is in a safer spot on the surface, but not with Sack. He is in a very dangerous place. Added to which, The posters who say that Tony will be a totally different animal next season are 100% correct. He's cut loose from his family and his shrink. The things that keep some semblance of sanity in his life are removed from him. What will happen? Lastly, this IS a show about a man, not a mob. The show has always hinged on the personal. Hell, that was the hook for the series in the first place: A Mob boss goes to a psychiatrist. The inherent promise of that is that this will be about deep emotional and psychological workings, not the usual "kill that guy/steal this stuff/blah blah blah" that we usually see in Mob stories. This whole series kicked off with Tony having panic attacks out of his deep concern for his family. Congratulations to these guys for taking a season finale to focus on that aspect of the story. The family scenes in last night's show were almost too painful to watch. The conversation with AJ about moving out of the house. Meadow's reaction to it all. (Which was wonderful. This spoiled, know-it-all finally has to come to terms with real life.) Really, really difficult, fantastic stuff. And, meantime, they've kept their Mob stories in place and moving. My prediction is that next season will be a mind-blower. They have one more to go. All bets are off. They don't have to worry about building a franchise. (And as much as HBO and some of the supporting cast may wish that this story can go on and on forever, Chase and Gandolfini are both ready to move on to other things. Take those two out of it and you no longer have the show.) So, I am waiting for Season Five like crazy. (Fortunately, I only have to wait a few weeks for OZ, which given that it's the last season, should be AMAZING this year.) So, no, I don't think this season was boring or a waste of time. They decided to focus on the fact that they are telling a human story, not a run-of-the-mill Mob story. It's reassuring to see that someone out there still cares about character motivation and growth and not about feeding the sensation machine. This will be a skill that will most likely be extinct in the next decade or so. Be glad when you get a chance to enjoy it.
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It's not that Carmella didn't know Tony was cheating. It's that it was rubbed in her face at a very bad emotional time for her. Also, did you notice what the turning point for her was during the Russian girl's phone call? It was finding out that Tony slept with a one-legged day nurse- someone Carm had had a personal relationship with. It was a very interesting character moment. It's one thing to bear the fact that your husband is out banging beautiful models and stewardesses. Then to find out that he's sleeping (from her perspective) with a damaged woman. . .The whole thing hinged on "What does she have that I don't?" It was seeing that Tony is not choosing to sleep with women because they're sexy or glamorous or whatever. It's just him sleeping with someone that isn't her for some reason. Sleeping with women who have nothing over her in any department. And it's just being forced to look at something you chose to ignore. I had a girlfriend once who ignored the fact that I'd started smoking again until she actually walked in on me with a cigarette. It was in her face and she couldn't not see it, so the rage of having ignored something obvious and unspoken just exploded out. This is the kind of character work you rarely see anymore. Also, I have to disagree with the idea that the writing was off this season. Go back and check out the "Christopher" (Columbus, not Chrissy) episode. Check out the episode where Tony deals with Gloria's suicide. Look at that HUD episode (and look at it beyond the plot stuff- there was so much deep-down emotional stuff going on there). Some of the best, most subtle writing the series has ever had was present this year. Also, keep in mind that this season was delayed when it was decided that there would be a Season Five. In other words, they decided to take the time to lay story threads in place that they could exploit in the final season instead of taking what they had- the start of Paulie/Sack, Junior's trial- and going from there. I'm curious to see what happens next season. If anyone thinks they've seen the last of Furio, think again. Carm is also free. What is she going to do now that she has the "freedom" to act on this desire? What will Tony do in response? What will Tony do just on principle now that this has been shoved in his face? (He almost bashed in Carm's face over it, which he never would have done before.) And a big "thank you" to the posters who point out that these characters are not to be admired and are not there to do cool things for our amusement. They are all scumbags. When they make decisions that screw with our expectations or do things that aren't cool- like Tony dealing with his real estate problem not with violence or the threat of voilence but with passive-agressive grade-school bullshit- it's all the better. Maybe Chase is trying to cure us of our attachment to the Mob, which is responsible for so much garbage in our real world. I don't really care what the ulterior motive is. I'm just glad that they're letting stories hinge on character and not plot. Psychology=interesting. People getting whacked at regular intervals just to pump things up=not all that compelling in the big picture. (That being said, I would like more Silvio in the next season. I kind of missed him this season.)
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Dec 09, 2002 11:05:45 AM CST
I don't mean to drag this discussion into the gutter, but
by lord shatner
Meadow was looking bootylicious in those shorts
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why-because the family was together. Tony Carm, jr, and Meadow all shared screen time together. That's what the show was about and it finally got back to them. still one episode does not make a season. Who mentioned that Columbus day episode-total shit. SNL may suck but whoever wrote that line for Fallon was right. Boring. Someone said it perfectly why it sucked. They didn't intend on a 5th season and streeeeeeeeetched it out. Furio may be back and if Tony sees him-dead. Expect the unexpected next season. Maybe TWO good episodes.
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Dec 09, 2002 1:04:53 PM CST
But we aren't meant to be entirely unsympathetic toward Tony, ei
by no. 41
Yes, he is a murderous thug. He has been repeatedly unfaithful to his wife. He makes a sport out of lying to his wife and children. He is crass and vulgar and rude and has a violent temper. But he is also the focus of the show, a guy with a soft spot for animals (the ducks, Pie-O-My, the dogs when he went to Italy), a guy who loves his kids and wants to best for them, a history buff, a man who sought out a therapist for his problems, a guy who *sometimes* even manages to show restraint and the stirrings of a conscience (witness his conflict over whacking the soccer coach in season 1). Tony, like the rest of the show, is not to be taken at face value. David Chase has done a masterful job of setting up The Sopranos' universe, which is why it's one of the best shows in the history of TV.
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All the guys explaining that it's a show about a family to the kids crying for more violence - didn't Chase brilliantly establish that in the opening credits sequence, from episode 1??? Sinister music with lyrics about violence and ill-fatedness, as a mob boss drives down (or up) the turnpike, through the rough neighborhoods of North Jersey, to arrive, grim faced, perhaps a bit anxious looking, at his house! The credits say it all. (Although, now, next season, will they change the credits so he arrives at some sort of flophouse for divorced men, like the one Milhouse's dad lives at?)
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The saddest thing about last night? The fact that the most exciting part of the evening was a teaser for new "Six Feet Under" eps. It looks like Lili Tyler is becoming a regular cast member, though. Ugh.
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Adriana and Christopher go into witness protection when Chris goes back on herion. Chris gives up the goods on Tony. Tony goes to jail for his many crimes, and the one that sinks him is killing Ralphie. Johnny Sacks and Paulie end up killing each other. Junior has a heart attack or something and dies. Bobby (under Janice's tutelage) ends up running the Soprano family ... which you could see coming a mile away after the abuse he got in the Santa Claus outfit episode and the hunter outfit he wore in the Russian episode. When Tony started giving him more responsibility and how he took care of the juror in this last episode .... Bobby ends up running the show.
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Carmella can cry foul all she wants, but truth of the matter is she WOULD have had an affair with Furio if Furio wasn't as strong as he was to just leave. She would have, just like she would have with Joe Penny's contractor character a couple seasons ago. She's fine because she didn't actually have sex with them? Furio was a just a matter of time and she swapped spit with Joe Penny and would have gone further if not for him finding out about Tony and his brother-in-law's gambling debt. Not to mention Carmella and the preist. Oh, yeah ... Carmella is a saint.
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I've been visting this site for about a year, and never felt compelled to register to talk back, but I must compliment Whiskey River on their post, it's the most intelliegent, insightful and on the ball talk back I've ever read.
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Everything the man said was right on. I've never understood this mentality that says that an episode or a season's greatness is directly proportional to the number of deaths of major characters. This has got to be the only show whose fans believe in such an equation. No one thought that Sienfeld was a piece of shit because they didn
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I wonder, why are so many of you saying this season sucked. I guess it
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Sopranos isn't life- it's tv. You have too many unresolved plotlines you start wondering what's the point of the set up if no payoff. And the lack of wacking isn't the problem. I can't believe people are pissed about that. Look at OZ. They killed so many people it became a little unrealistic. Is it me or with that hair cut Carmella looks like Hillary Clinton? I can see Hillary and the ex pres arguing like that. And the Columbus Day episode was absolute dog shit. Worst Sopranos ever.
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As far as I know, Season 1 was the only one that ended with whackings of signifcant characters (Mickey Palmice). Big Pussy and Jackie Jr. were both whacked in the 2nd to last eps. Right?
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Federico Castelluccio has cut off his ponytail. If Furio returns in season five, he will look different (or be wearing a weave).
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Dec 09, 2002 8:27:04 PM CST
Han Ol' Buddy : 'How many times did I want to hit Carm?' Now wha
by shiva
I had the opposite reaction btw. Wanted to split Tony's big head open with a hammer everytime Carmella started to cry. She's suspected it for years and now she knows for sure. The emotional devastation that Edie Falco showed Carmella going through just got to me. She takes care of the family (when was the last time that you saw T advising the kids and worrying about their future. other than to prove what a tough street smart guy he was. Its Carmella who constantly worries about the kids.), she tries to think about the family's future finances and by all accounts she's the best cook in New Jersey. Even if she were not as hot as Edie Falco she'd still have my vote. To cheat on that godess with some skank-of-the-month is the most lame-brained thing I can think of. I mean wtf were you thinkin', T? And the unmitigated gall that he has to throw it in her face by telling her that she knew what she was getting herself into. that she didn't connect with Tony. Man, fuck you T! I loved it when Carm said that all those 1000 other skanks probably connected with him better than she did. If Tony had hit her I'd have broken the TV. I swear. At least Chase and co. had the grace to not do that to her.
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she has got to have the nicest ASS in showbiz, second only to elisha/kim on 24... man meadow has a nice butt, i wanna stick my penis into her butthole so bad i can taste it....
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First off, to mummer, I understand where you're coming from about is Tony a tragic hero. I think the fact I point that out comes from two things. The first one is the Entertainment Weekly issue from a few months back where they did an episode-by-episode review of the first three seasons. If memory serves, they used the term tragic hero in reference to Tony, or at the very least referred to him in that context. The second is the series itself. Tony, as the central character, is the hero of the show. There's really no arguing that point. Each show needs to have a hero and Tony is the only one that qualifies for this show. And yes, I do think that it is required for a tragic hero to die. But soylentphil did give a few good exceptions. Michael Corleone definitely; William Munny I don't know how I overlooked. Especially because I've been watching the end scene of Unforgiven every other day for the last two weeks. Ah, the joy of DVD. Munny is the only one that I can think of that "wins," if you can even call it that, at the end of the movie. Corleone certainly hasn't won at the end of Godfather II, he's lost his mother and his brother and his wife, that doesn't sound like happy times. I wouldn't qualify Josey Wales as a tragic hero. To me the definition of a tragic hero is someone who has a character flaw which ultimately leads to his own demise. In that sense, Hamlet is a tragic hero. I've heard both Julius Caesar and Markus Brutus called tragic heroes. More recently, Al Pacino's character in Insomnia is a tragic hero (sorry the name escapes me). Hamlet brought about his death because of his desire for revenge, Caesar for his desire of power and empire, Brutus for daring to challenge the system, and Pacino's character for his corruption, his shoot first actions. Josey Wales is also driven by a lust for revenge, but because of a totally unknown source. Hamlet knew the people he wanted to punish, Josey Wales does not. Also I do think it is required for a tragic hero to die. Where's the tragedy if the hero lives? You might say that a tragic hero has a tragedy happen to him/her but then almost everyone is a tragic hero. Is Luke Skywalker a tragic hero because his aunt and uncle are killed? Ditto for Peter Parker. Is Lilo, from Lilo & Stitch, a tragic hero because her parents died in a car accident? I think those would all be stretches. Ooh, Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is a tragic hero. Anakin's flaws lead him to become evil, and he ultimately pays for it with his life. That's tragic. Tony Soprano will almost certainly be lauded as a tragic hero when he dies. And he will.
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I think that the "unresolved plotlines" point has merit, as real life is full of unresolved stories, plots, etc. I've realized that in "Sopranos", I now enjoy and appreciate the faulty "cause-and-effect" that permeates the show, because it is REALISTIC. It used to be whenever a guy does something dumb or terrible, you'd say "Whoa!!!! He's gonna get WHACKED!! He's gonna get his comeuppance." But that's not how real life works. People may deserve to be whacked, may deserve to suffer, may deserve to be humbled, but it doesn't happen. (And vice-versa....good people can be put in harm's way, wise life choices don't guarantee security, etc.). And I agree that this "scorecard" mentality with who gets whacked is getting tiring. Do you realize how BORING AND PHONY it would be if everything on the show went in apple pie order? A - Paulie does something worthy of being whacked. B - He's whacked. A - Christopher makes a bad decision. B - Christopher suffers because of the bad decision. Real life doesn't work that way! Some who deserve whacking get whacked, some don't. "What goes around comes around" doesn't always apply. O.J. Simpson is walking around free, while John Lennon took bullets in the back. And I love that David Chase doesn't confuse "season finale" with the "Dallas/90210/Dynasty"-type nonsense where a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE event has to happen just because it's the last episode. Please. Chase is not insulting our intelligence. Thanks. Notch out.
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Dec 10, 2002 7:45:27 AM CST
One thing is absolutely clear about the season finale of the Sop
by graham_minnesota
Eddy Falco (Carmela) is an incredible actress. The performance that she gave really must have come from some where deep inside of her (even with the annoying accent.) Watching her completley come apart and exposing herself as a human being who has been so emotionaly hurt was beyond captivating (this is not unjustified pretentiousness or hyperbole.) This woman deserves an Emmy for her performance in this "White Caps" episode. And as stated earlier in this talk back, welcome to the real world Meadow. Her sense of superiority is not so great now. Self centered bitch.
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I can't fully understand why people feel the need to always complain about a quality show. The story lines peak and valley to reflect the writer's concept of these characters' lives. A mediocre Sopranos episode is usually better than 95% of the rest of television. Someone wrote that Ralphie's character experienced remorse, came full circle and was then destined to be whached. That is missing the entire point. He felt bad about the condition of his son but his remorse was far from true. During his 'remorseful' stage he was still able to be the dirty gangester scumbag that he always was and always would have been. He burned Pie0'My(something Tony loved)alive for the money. Ralphie was a psychopath incampable of regular emotions. He was murdered because that is the final end for one so dismal and uncaring. He was still the same character that killed with his own hands the stripper/girlfriend caring his child. Many posters keep bringing up last season's Russian(Barrens?) episode wondering why that story line had not been resolved. The reason we don't know what happened to that Russian is because Christopher and Paulie don't know either. Like life, we don't always know what happened. Sometimes we wonder if something is going to come back to haunt us. Many times it never does, but that is the uncertainy that keeps the stories fresh and, at times, unpredictable. All great entertainers leave you wanting more. The writers seemed to accomplish that.
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The First season of the show is one of the greatest seasons of television ever. As someone has already said, the show was a mob guy dealing with family problems, with Tony's mother being one of TV's greatest villians. Then season two introduced Tony's sister and Richie and a host of other charachters and the show became basically about a family guy dealing with mob problems. Over Seasons three and four, the show was basically stuck doing shows that didn't move the story along, until this season's finale. The show at its core should be about Tony and his immediate family and the mob stories should be toward the background.
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I guarentee D. Chase is kicking himself for casting Nancy Marchand when he knew she could die before his series was done. Tony's mom was a major force in the show. Downhill ever since.
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Hate to say i told ya, but i did... no whacks, just a divorce, italian style. where do i get these magnificent spoilers?
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First of all, Tony doesn't have any redeeming qualities. He's just a typical, murderous thug just like the rest of them. I think he's actually even worse because of how hypocritical he is. He kills with his bare hands because he loses his temper. Also, the whole reason he killed Ralph goes back to the whole stripper thing. If you noticed Ralph said the same thing about Tracee as he said about Pie-Oh-My: "Tony, she was a God-damn whore!" , "Tony, it was a God-damn horse!". And at the end of the episode as he was leaving the Bada-Bing, he looked over at a picture of Tracee. You missed the whole point of how Tony allowed it all to happen in the first place and that it was his fault. In fact, I don't see any other way for this show to end if Tony doesn't end up getting killed. He deserves it and I don't think I'll come away liking the show if he doesn't die. No one should be rooting for him. Chase is trying to show us that he's the scum of the Earth. This show doesn't glamorize him. Also, Ralphie DIN'T kill the horse. That's why Ralph got so pissed at Tony. He was like, "You fat fuck, I've got a kid dying in the hospital and you think I would take the time to have the horse killed that you extorted from me?" How would some one have enough grief to care about a damn horse when his kid is dying? Plus, Tony really hated Ralph because he saw himself in him. He was a mob guy that couldn't hold back his impulses and exploded whenever he lost his temper. Tony was going to therapy to try and resolve this and he saw in Ralph everything he hated about himself.
PS - By the way, I wasn't guessing about Ralph not killing the horse. In an interview with the Weekly Standard Joe Pantoliano said how Chase intended for the horse incident to be an accident. -
A couple more things, when Tony was strangling Ralph he yelled, "She was sweet and innocent...you had no right!" Was he talking about Tracee or the horse? And if there's any justice Joe Pantoliano wins an Emmy for his performance. He's the best actor on the show and really got to run the gammut of emotions in that episode...
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anybody who disses the soprano is just a fucking internet geek with no appreciation for the masterpiece of television they have been bringing us since 1999. What gives anybody on this site to complain about it, none of you guys do shit..just complain, complain and complain...its so pathetic. We should all be on our knees praying everyday that this show goes on as long as possible There is nothing else on television like it....it has something for everyone, from action to soap opera to drama. The only thing that annoys me is the BLATANT coke product placement in EVERY episode and the fact that the characters i like always get whacked (richie aprile, ralphie cifaretto etc)
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