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STAR TREK: NEMESIS a creative disappointment'
Hey folks, Harry here... Well, the last review was mixed at best, this is an out and out disaster review. Claiming that the film fails at each and every level. That it plays like an odd Trek film instead of the even it was supposed to be. This sounds very scary. I don't want to see bad Trek.... I really don't. Here ya go... beware of spoilers...
CONTAINS SPOILERS
I recently had the opportunity to screen the new "Star Trek" film thanks to a friend at Viacom. I was genuinely excited to screen the new movie, but…
The even/odd-numbered theory has finally been blown out of the water. Number "X" in the "Trek" film series is one big misfire.
How can one put into words the utter disappointment this film delivers on virtually every level? In a world where the sci-fi/fantasy genre has been blessed -- and the bar raised -- by the sheer creative brilliance of films such as the "The Fellowship of the Ring" and "The Matrix" and, at least on a technical level, the ability to realize other worlds and alien races like in the latest "Star Wars" movies, the "Trek" films seem somehow stuck in the past where our tastes as an audience were perhaps more simple and just the idea of seeing our TV heroes on the big screen was enough to help us look beyond some silly stories and "B" movie production values.
There's one essential problem with "Star Trek: Nemesis" that goes beyond its shortcomings in story, direction, and acting: it's CHEESY. And the "cheese" quotient in the "Trek" series is becoming so high that I fear the franchise will soon (if it's not already) be irrelevant as it falls in the shadow of other genre films with greater creative vision.
"Star Trek" used to be about great ideas and concepts that elevated it above its low-budget origins. I'm afraid the series is losing its way in an attempt to re-capture the fans with middling attempts at action, humor, and too-predictable super villains.
Allow me to hit upon some of the low points (SPOILER ALERT):
The Opening:
We witness what is supposed to be a horrifying incident in the Romulan senate chamber but which is instead almost laughable as the entire senate is reduced to dust with silly grimaces plastered on their faces. I had a bad feeling in my gut almost immediately.
The Romulans:
The make-up looks like make-up and these are not the threatening Romulans we've seen before. They're so easy-going and friendly that at one point a Romulan commander jokes about having a drink with Picard once they all rid themselves of Shinzon. Wow -- who knew that peace between the Federation and the Romulans could come so easily over one minor shared enemy?
The Remans:
I guess they're supposed to be scary but you wouldn't know it from here. Like the Romulans, they look like guys in costumes. Ron Perlman's Viceroy has little to do and his telepathic abilities involving Shinzon and Troi seemingly come out of nowhere in one example of the script's many shortcomings.
B4:
Any scene with this idiotic creation is embarrassing. I'd feel sorry for Brent Spiner having to behave like a child, except for the fact that he shares a story credit and deserves some of the blame. This character serves little or no purpose in the film, except to provide Spiner a way to re-enter the series down the road. If you thought Data's quirks were getting annoying, get ready for this moronic android. And not only do we have to watch Data sing, but also B4 singing with Picard at the film's close, in a scene that had me screaming inside.
The Direction.
Kudos to Paramount and Berman for allowing an outsider to come in and shake things up. The "Trek" series desperately needs new blood to keep it fresh and vital. However, "Trek" also needs a director who has a more cinematic vision than just directing action scenes capably. With its over-use of close-ups and static set-ups, this movie falls flat in almost every scene including the much-touted space battle.
The Sets:
Herman Zimmerman, I love ya, but why does every alien race have a ship where guys sit at big consoles, just like on the Enterprise? This is another area of the franchise that is in big need of a creative shake-up.
The Script:
This, of course, is the major problem with the whole film. John Logan has written a script that is no better than, say, the average "Andromeda" episode. For all the horn tooting about shaking up the status quo, things pretty much wrap up in a predictable, safe fashion. Logan adds NOTHING to these characters that we haven't seen before. If I were LeVar Burton, Gates McFadden or Michael Dorn, I'd sue for malpractice. Save for Picard, virtually every main character is devoid of a detectable personality. They're simply conduits for Logan's mediocre dialogue. It's another example of how clueless the current "Trek" writers are to the brilliance of the Kirk/Spock/McCoy triumvirate and how to best utilize all the characters' personalities.
In the Shinzon/Picard dynamic, Logan wastes his own potentially cool story with lazy writing and little exploration of the themes that stem from this relationship. The premise isn't half-bad, but the script is half-baked.
There are plot holes galore. Wait until you see how Picard and crew are "tricked" into finding B4. It's stupifying. Shinzon's health deteriorates at such a quick pace it's ridiculous. Too bad the Enterprise crew didn't come across him a week later because they could have avoided this entire movie. The big finale depends on Shinzon getting his own "weapon of mass destruction" up and running as his ship expands its wings. You could invade Iraq and be home for Thanksgiving in the time it takes for this thing to charge up. So much for any kind of a surprise attack. The ending is exactly like the last movie: Picard dukes it out with the bad guy aboard bad guy's ship before getting beamed off in the knick of time.
Say what you will about "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" and its glacial storytelling, that film had a bigger, bolder vision than any of the subsequent films and took its characters - and their mission to explore new life forms and new civilizations -- seriously. What we need is a "Trek" movie that returns to Roddenberry's roots rather than pitting the crew up against yet another lame super-villain. The formula is beyond tired.
The Ending:
If this is indeed the final journey for this crew, it's a disappointing send-off. "All Good Things…" provided a heartfelt coda that was the perfect finale for the crew's TV adventures. Here, two crewmembers get definite goodbyes but we'll never know what happens to the rest of the cast thanks to a poor wrap-up. The ending feels choppy and abrupt (one gets the sense other goodbye scenes have been lost in the editing process) and instead we're treated to Picard and B4 singing.
In all, "Nemesis" is a creative disappointment. With other genre pictures of late leading a new wave of sci-fi/fantasy creativity, "Trek" seems more archaic and less sophisticated than ever. I honestly doubt that non-Trek audiences will find much of interest here. Here's hoping the "good" films switch to the odd-numbered films next time around.
Albobo
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Nov 27, 2002 6:31:43 AM CST
Star Trek films have consistantly looked like Super 8 films shot
by chuckrussel
'nuff said!
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I had high hopes. Based on the outsiders Berman let in. Should've known. Well, no biggie. I never really got into DS9, never saw an episode of Voyager, just checked the movies to see what's going on with the NG crew. It's a bit like Bond, this series. Everybody's waiting for the facelift, it's always promised, it never really happens. Fans stay fans, borderline cases just give it up. Anyway, Trek 11 seems to be greenlighted, at least according to Dark Horizons so none of this really matters. There's always someone buying the comemorative plates and attending the conventions. I just wanted a decent sci-fi adventure.
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Nov 27, 2002 7:19:11 AM CST
ok, fine...this new Star Trek sucks ass(according to this so-cal
by red raider
D2 has now taken over the FX chores for the film series, and here's hoping they do a great job. _______If this film is indeed as bad as you say it is, then end the NG films and start on a DS9 movie. I won't even mind if Jonathan Frakes directs it(it sounds like he should've directed Nemesis)!!! ******Rick Berman can(and will) burn in hell!******
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How easy it is to write a review like this, spolier free and adding in all the known facts. By the way it's B-9 (Benign) not B-4 that the crew find. I think I'll write my own bogus review and send it in and watch everyone feel disppointed.
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Star Trek sux!!!!!
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Visit http://welshunsigned.users.btopenworld.com/Nemesis.pdf
for the shooting script for Nemesis. Read it, draw your conclusions, imagine the movie in your head and then write a bogus review! Simple! -
This review does not sound like a cut and paste job. The mediocre review here a few days ago and the one on "Corona's Coming Attractions" 2 weeks ago, as well as this review would indicate NEMESIS is a misfire, not down and out bad like INSURRECTION, but a misfire nontheless. I have not seen not ONE positive review of this film on the net our otherwise so far. The script that was lambasted here and elsewhere many moons ago apparently was not improved. To the poster above who stated this review was false because "B-9" was not mentioned should know that the robot is indeed called "B-4" now (B-9 was the original name in the script). You can bring in John Logan, Stuart Baird, Digital Domain etc, but if Rick Berman and Brent Spiner still have creative control over this franchise it's dead. The reviewer is right, who wants to see endless scenes with Data and his alter ego, B-4? We already are going to have to endure a lame Picard-Clone Plot A point, but they have to shove us another Data and his clone Plot B point. It's horrible screenwriting. Rick Berman should be fired. I love Star Trek, but these bastards don't know the concept of dramatic tension, humor, wisdom, chemistry, or even how to handle action scenes. I hope I'm wrong. I'll still go see this film but I don't see any FIRST CONTACT fan or critical accolades - that was a fluke it seems.
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Why not have two antagonists, Lore and Shitzon? Why make a goof-Data when they could have had a bad-ass Data pissed and wanting to kill Data and Shitzon trying to kill humanity.
Than maybe one or the other killing the other and having one main bad-dude confrontation. -
... They should have killed Picard during First Contact - Im SO SICK of every movie revolving around Picard and Data. The other cast members havent done a damn thing in any of the movies.
I didnt go see Insurrection and I doubt Ill see this.
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...but the early buzz does not sound promising. "Enterprise" is fairly entertaining but there's little question but that Berman & Co. have been at the helm of this franchise for too long.
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Everyone uses that meaningless fucking word, but does anyone actually know WHAT IT MEANS? I do.
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There are really two types of Trekkies (or Trekkers, which is it?) out there:
The small, vocal minority that believes the first film in the franchise (Star Trek: The Motion Picture, or TMP) was the best Trek film ever and everything has been downhill since then or...
The vast majority that believes Trek films like The Wrath of Khan (TWOK), The Undiscovered County (TUC) and First Contact (FC) far outpaced TMP in terms of enjoyability, action and drama.
Although I am firmly in the second camp, I did enjoy TMP, but I agree with some reviewers that TMP was rather somnolent and placid compared to later Trek films. This reviewer is firmly in the first camp, so I take everything he wrote with a grain of salt (assuming it is a real review and not some fake rehash of the script, which I've pored over several times myself).
What many fail to realize is that Paramount is a company out to make money. It is not a charity, and they have a fiduciary duty to their stockholders (many of whom are ordinary 401k workers like myself) to make as much profit as possible. Although I understand observations that Trek of late seems to have lost headway with the inability to take chances, I will never bo so harsh as to call for Berman's head on a platter or any of the other diatribes I've seen not suitable for repeating here. Suffice it to say that I am not alone in this regard, but I am not in Berman's shoes and I suspect, to some degree, Trek fans in general are so fickle and so varied in their opinions, beliefs and concepts of what is good and what is crappy that there is no way to please all of them at the same time. Most people would agree Lord of the Rings is a wonderful movie (it won four Oscars so it can't be that bad), but you will always have a vocal minority that will hate anything you do.
Again, my general premise bears repeating: You cannot please all of the people, all of the time.
That having been said, when I go to a theater for Trek films, I expect to be entertained. I like to see some banter. I like some laughter, some snide remarks (C3PO's comment in Attack of the Clones that he was "beside himself" when R2D2 dragged his severed head next to C3PO's headless body is a good example of this). Most importantly, I want drama. High drama. I want epic space battles, struggles for life and death, and rich characters that draw me into the movie. That is what transports me from my theater seat into the action. For Trek, rich villains are always the best. Khan's scenes were some of the best in Trek history: "From hell's heart, I stab at thee." General Chang uttering Shakespearean-like quotes as he pounded the Enterprise with his cloaked Bird of Prey in TUC. "Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!" Even Ru'Afo in Insurrection: "The time to make hard choices is now, Admiral."
Although I have not seen Nemesis, from the script and the short five minute featurette that is out, Tom Hardy's character of Shinzon does an admirable job of filling the shoes left vacant by Ricardo Montalban and Christopher Plummer. He has lines which whould be quite compelling.
"Can you learn to see in the dark, Captain?"
"Some ideas are worth dying for, aren't they, Jean Luc?"
Picard has some great lines as well. Once Shinzon's ship is targeted and the Enterprise ready to return fire, his order (reflecting the pain and searing grief he has at not being able to convince Shinzon to come around, but ultimately his duty must be done):
"Savage them!"
Although it is unlikely that Nemesis will truly reach the height of being called the best Trek film ever, I think, when all is said and done, that Nemesis will probably end up being ranked the third or fourth best Trek film, after TWOK, FC and perhaps TUC. It certainly will exceed The Final Frontier, The Search for Spock and Insurrection, just based on the script alone. It may exceed The Voyage Home and Generations as well, if it is executed properly. I have no qualms that the action scenes will be thrilling as Stuart Baird certainly has an eye for that, based upon his prior work.
I will await further reviews from a broader spectrum of reviewers to get an early feel of the movie, and then I will ultimately make my decision after I see the flick December 13. It may be that I am incorrect, but I doubt it. I predict a forty million dollar opening weekend followed by a $120-150 million U.S. gross, which alone will be more than enough to cover Paramount's expenses in producing and mrketing the movie. The flick will make another $100 million overseas and the rental/DVD sales/cable licensing will just be the icing on the cake.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends. No peace in our time. It was how it was meant to be."
--don
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Boy, how I do hate these anti-Star Trek goons who insist on posting VERY slanted reviews in order to, supposedly, strike fear in the hearts of Star Trek fans who are looking forward to a new movie or episode.
To Mr. Crab-Ass Reviewer: You only made me want to see the movie more. In fact, I just may see it twice. Thanks for making me smile, and getting me even more excited for this movie. -
I have to agree with Celtican here, the origin of some of these reviews sound... strange, to say the least. Lately I read one by someone who claims to have seen a 1h40mins cut - strange that quite some time ago Baird and Berman stated that the first cut was around 3 hours and then it was cut down to just under 2 hours. So where does this 1h40mins cut come from.
I'm not claiming this is gonna be a freaking great movie (how could I know?), but this review could indeed have been written by anyone who read the script OR just compiled some long-known info and watched the trailer. -
If Paramount fires all the bad writers who work on Enterprise, due to low ratings and Ronald D. Moore, who is writing the new Battlestar Galactica mini-series for the Sci-Fi Channel hires them to work on the new Battlestar Galactica series. With Ron D. Moore driving the ship it's almost given that Battlestar Galactica is going to reminding people of Star Trek and hiring all the bad writers from Enterprise is the kind of cheap-ass thing that the Sci-Fi Cannel would agree to. In the end the Sci-Fi Channel will have another crap brand name series just like Stargate. I'm looking forward to seeing a new Battlestar Galactica series but not if it end up being the new franchise (Don't you just hate that word, it shows how out of touch the people who work on Star Trek are).
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Thanks for the link. This is not a script review, such thing is beyond me. But few notes to those interested and too busy to read it themselves: (MILD SPOILERS AHEAD)It's a decent ST:TNG adventure, but hardly a mind-blower. It really tries a bit too hard to imitate KHAN - you can almost play "connect the plot points."
B-9 substory is a bit underdeveloped. Don't know how it plays in the film, but there's no real feelings involved (of Data)in the script.
That is not the case with counsellor Troi. Deanna seems so clearly in love with noble Picard, not that dullard Riker - one wonders what sort of a film that little love triangle would make.
References to the Borg and Nexus and Zephryn Cochran feel a bit hoakie - namedropping to tie the movie into continuity. But the "defensive pattern Kirk Epsilon" brought a smile to my face.
I like that final conversation Picard and Shinzon have. Granted, there are some lines that are borderline cheese but Patrick Stewart knows how to turn them into cream - he's done it before.
There was one aspect that I found a bit disorientating. I'm talking about all the pop-culture references in Logan's descriptions: "Like something out of Tim Burton." "Like threepio in "Empire" when he's strapped to Chewbacca's back." Romulan symbol is compared to KAOS emblem in Get Smart and when Enterprise goes to Warp drive, Logan adds a Macauley Culkin-like yes! to the paragraph. He even references "Alien". This gripe matters not in the finished product, but it's a bit odd to find such thigs in a shooting script.
Space battles in the end should work splendidly on screen, Shinzon/Picard mano-a-mano is predictable. And the emotional resonance of the way that scene plays out - I'm not quite sure it's there.
What can I say. I might still see this, if only to compare the film in my head to the one in the screens. I think I expected a bit too much from Logan. One thing is certain: all the themes of brotherhood will keep Chaffro a busy bee when Nemesis opens. -
Were allies during the Dominion War...and even before that there were Romulan Captains on TNG that proved they weren't all jerks. And yeah, I'm a dork for knowing that.
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As soon as I heard that Stewart and Spiner had creative and story control I knew this film wouldn't be good. They should have just fired them both. There would have been no Data or Picard, but at least they would have had a shot at a good movie. Unlike a lot of people, I have been a fan of all the Trek series. It's frustrating that they have not been able to put out a Next Gen flick that could even crack the top 20 of the series best shows (maybe make that top 30... or top 40... maybe 50?). Beyond just a bad idea, letting them have creative control means were getting another Picard and Data movie. Enough already!
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is for the geeky of the geeks
nerd shite
on par with D&D -
Nemesis is Star Trek 5 times 2. Mathematically, you all should have seen this coming.
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...and being a staunch fan of the series these are four words I never thought that I would think, much less write. Good, Lord, gentlemen, if this horrible film doesn't sink the franchise then nothing short of kryptonite will do so. I wish Berman, et al. could just gracefully (and mercifully) let this series expire instead of ruthlessly wringing it dry in order to continue to pay their mortgages. The Powers-That-Be have no concept of what Star Trek is anymore (or, more importantly, what Star Trek COULD be in the hands of new blood unafraid of going boldly where no Trek writers have ever gone before). The franchise now stands as a cautionary tale of what can happen when a series grotesquely staggers on long after it was meant to expire (a tale that is largely lost on Paramount execs who greedily continue to milk this moribund series; they just don't get it - for them it's not a cautionary tale at all!). As I've said before in all past Trek talkbacks, I believe the series should go on an extended moratorium. I used to say fifteen years, but now I'm leaning more towards twenty (yes, the execrable "Voyager" and "Enterprise" have left such a bad taste in this ex-fan's mouth that I don't want to see so much as a single Federation insignia for at least two decades). Then, maybe, some new writers and producers can escape the tragic gravity of all that has come before and start fresh using just the series basics. I only wish that the mass of Star Trek fans could find the strength to boycott "Nemesis" at the box office and stop spending their hard-earned money on this badly decomposing corpse. (Sob) Star Trek is Dead...
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...and being a staunch fan of the series these are four words I never thought that I would think, much less write. Good, Lord, gentlemen, if this horrible film doesn't sink the franchise then nothing short of kryptonite will do so. I wish Berman, et al. could just gracefully (and mercifully) let this series expire instead of ruthlessly wringing it dry in order to continue to pay their mortgages. The Powers-That-Be have no concept of what Star Trek is anymore (or, more importantly, what Star Trek COULD be in the hands of new blood unafraid of going boldly where no Trek writers have ever gone before). The franchise now stands as a cautionary tale of what can happen when a series grotesquely staggers on long after it was meant to expire (a tale that is largely lost on Paramount execs who greedily continue to milk this moribund series; they just don't get it - for them it's not a cautionary tale at all!). As I've said before in all past Trek talkbacks, I believe the series should go on an extended moratorium. I used to say fifteen years, but now I'm leaning more towards twenty (yes, the execrable "Voyager" and "Enterprise" have left such a bad taste in this ex-fan's mouth that I don't want to see so much as a single Federation insignia for at least two decades). Then, maybe, some new writers and producers can escape the tragic gravity of all that has come before and start fresh using just the series basics. I only wish that the mass of Star Trek fans could find the strength to boycott "Nemesis" at the box office and stop spending their hard-earned money on this badly decomposing corpse. (Sob) Star Trek is Dead...
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Nov 27, 2002 4:36:55 PM CST
When was the last ST flick that wasn't a creative disappointment
by no. 41
Be honest, Trekheads. Star Trek V - maybe Shatner took more than his fair share of blame, maybe not. But whatever the cause, everyone knows how rank that movie was. Star Trek VI - inexplicably over-praised espionage thriller set in space. The SF was window dressing, nothing more. It honestly felt like a spy movie script that was dusted off and adapted for Star Trek. Star Trek VII (Generations) - an all-over-the-place mess, no cohesion, strange plot, with the meaningless inclusion of Kirk and the worst death of a major character ever, even worse than the way they tried to kill off Superman, fer Chrissakes. Star Trek VIII (First Contact) - boy, isn't it easy to travel back thru time? Re-warmed "Aliens," so blatant that James Cameron should sue. They even trotted out the alien queen, fer Chrissakes. Star Trek IX (Insurrection) - makes V look like Lawrence of Arabia by comparison--just an absolute, borderline unwatchable mess. Face it, the quest for more profits has this series on a five-flick losing streak. "Insurrection" was the first ST I didn't see in the theaters, and "Nemesis" is WAAAYYY behind if it wants to get me in the seats.
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Come on!! This guy has Fox written all over him.
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Its all Buffy - ZERO mentions of Odyssey 5 or Stargate. From today its off my favorites.
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New casts. How cool would it be to have a Starfleet Academy series set in the TNG era? That would rock! And how abut the next Trek movie with an all new cast?! And I'm not talking about making movies with the DS9 or Voyager or even the Enterprise cast. I'm talking TOTALLY NEW. New ship, new creative teams, new threats, the works! One of the main detractions from the trek movies is the fact that not every movie go-er is familiar with the Trek series, and making movies with the TNG characters, while guaranteeing an installed fan-base, was largely unlikely to bring in new fans. So start a new movie series, with a new cast that EVERYONE can get to know at the same time. That's my opinion, at least. Thoughts anyone?
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Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner are as well to blame. They took control of the movies with Insurrection and haven't let go. They seem determined to turn these movies into the Picard and Data show instead of an ensemble cast piece.
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Nov 27, 2002 6:38:31 PM CST
STAR TREK 11:MIXED CREW FILM? If nobody watches new Star Trek fo
by darth voodoo
Did anybody see where Berman said the next film may center on members of all the recent tv shows (Ds9,Voy and Ent) that nobody gives a shit about in a mixed crew fim? If they made this film it wouldn't make $30 million dollars. All of these programs have been flops in the ratings. Nobody except a few Star Trek geeks can even tell you who these characters are. Star Trek died with the death of Kirk. Is it just a coincidence that everything since Generations (With the exception of First Contact) has been a dud? Is it a coincidence that the best selling Star Trek novel ever is The Return, which brings back Kirk, the most popular character in the series? TO MOST OF THE PUBLIC STAR TREK IS TOS AND TNG. IF A MOVIE WITH A MIXED CAST IS MADE TREK WOULD BECOME A JOKE. BRING BACK KIRK AND SPOCK WITH THE TNG CREW IN A FINAL FILM AND THEN LET THIS TIRED SERIES REST FOR 10 YEARS.
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Sorry, I don't think that it's Spiner and Stewarts fault if this film is bad. They may have had some creative control but I can almost guarantee that these two have better ideas then Berman and his partner. They didn't have full control, after all. The fact that Picard and Data have been the main stars of pretty much all the Next Generation films is more because of the fact that they are the two most popular characters and Paramount is mainly looking at the financial possibilities of the series. I think that if these two did have full control of a film though they could come up with something special as they are both much more intelligent then Berman and actually seem to care about the series. I think putting them in control of the Enterprise series on UPN, which has been stated as a possibility previously on this site, could be a fantastic change.
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Isn't he a god-like traveler now? Why haven't they brought his character back?!!!!!
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bastards.
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Hey campers. A few things to remember while ranting about all of this. 1) Why would anyone write a review trying to sink the movie? Fox doesn't have a competing project coming out that weekend, and it's not like they have to worry about good Trek pictures taking away their Star Wars audience. Also remember: Fox only gets a distrubtion fee for releasing the Star Wars movies. If SW does big bucks, it's Lucasfilm that reaps the rewards; Fox will already have cashed their check for releasing it. Good sci-fi helps make the marketplace easier for everyone, but it's not like Lucasfilm and Fox have to worry about getting butts in seats for Episode 3; they know we're all going to show up in droves. 2) The reason everything gets so focused on Data and Picard is kind of simple; they're the closest thing the Next Gen crew has to Kirk and Spock. If you go back and watch the last few original crew Trek movies you see Kirk, Spock, and Bones as the focal points allowing the writers to explore themes of friendship, duty, honor, and family. With the Next Gen crew, there's no triumverate. Kirk has been split into Riker and Picard, and Spock kind of got split into Data and Troi. In a series, you have all season to do stories that give you a chance to get to know all the key crew (the "Magnificent Seven" as the Trek formula goes). In a movie, you get two hours or less. It has to be somebody's story, so it usually ends up being Picard's because Patrick Stewart is a great actor whose talents you'd hate to waste. Brent Spiner, also a talented performer, and the closest thing to Spock on the Next Gen Enterprise(s) becomes a natural counterpoint in those stories. Besides, they're paying Patrick and Brent a lot of money to keep coming back. Yes, the rest of the crew suffers, and you'd think that a talented writer would be able to service all the key members of the crew in every story, but sadly that doesn't appear to be the case. It is worth noting that the best Trelk films are the ones in which all the primary characters get to shine. "Generations" blew because it was all about Kirk passing the torch, whereas "First Contact" was cool because you got to see a little bit of everyone in the story in ways that made sense. 3) I watch "Enterprise" and I think it's usually a very well written show. (and the fact they keep getting Jolene Blalock into her underwear in the decontamination chamber doesn't hurt, either). Trek can be good, you just have to stay focused and make sure you service your primary characters. I'm hoping the reviewer was a little hard on "Nemesis" because I really want to like it. However, everything I read seemed pretty plausible, too. I'll probably see it anyway. -- SPYder. out.
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The series stands at 2 wins (Khan, Voyage Home), 1 tie (Search for Spock, which is half of a decent flick), and 6 losses (everything else). That's the kind of record that gets the coach and all of his assistants fired, if we were talking football.
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My friend, I truly believe that a Trek revamp needs a helluva lot more than a mere cast change.
This thing has to be razed to its very foundations, burned to the ground so that it can rise like a Phoenix from its own ashes. First, the twenty-year moratorium to get the bland taste of crap like "Voyager" and "Enterprise" out of our mouths. Then, during the fall season of 2022 I'd like to see Trek resurrected as TWO T.V. series. The first series would be something new and exciting; new writers, new producers, new crew, new uniforms, new ships, new technology and - most importantly - ATTITUDE. I want writers who are going to break entirely away from from the tired Roddenberry formula of a moral and peace-loving Federation and treat it more realistically as a fallible (and utterly corrupted) political entity. I want to see adventurers and spies on the outer fringe of Federation space trying to relentlessly (and ruthlessly) one-up each other, Star Fleet operatives who perform their missions under deep cover and in utter secrecy and aren't afraid to say "F--k the
Federation!" when they feel that Earthbound bureaucrats hundreds of light years away don't understand their mission or their situation. I want to see more continuing story arcs with incidents that affect our characters so deeply that they carry the scars within them until the end of the series. I want scripts (or at least their initial treatments) written by real science fiction writers instead of lazy hacks who think that putting Data in a Robin Hood suit or a cowboy hat is daring and different. Jeez, have you guys read anything by Greg Egan ("Diaspora," "Schild's Ladder) or
John C. Wright ("The Golden Age")?
Read any of those novels, gentlemen, and you will begin to understand how completely lacking
in imagination Star Trek really is. No, I'm serious. It's appalling! I want to see more aliens who are truly ALIEN, not just another English-speaking humanoid race with funny hair and those ever present nose-pieces or
forehead ridges. And more bio-technology! Well over two-hundred years in the freakin' future and you should be dealing with a society that can manipulate human phenotypes and genotypes at will (and what about the social repercussions of such
power? wouldn't there be some freakin' religious groups suicide-bombing clinics where these manipulations were performed?).
I want Trek to address the subject of blindingly rapid technological change on the inhabitants of Federation space.
Guys, there's so much I could say on this, but it's time to go on to the Second Series...
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lynxpro, that is hillarious. Evil! EVIL!! :) Alas, Wes Crusher ended up on the cutting room floor. The review seems legit enough to me, unfortunately. I hope for the best but may be rewarded with the worst. Good point by anyone who is sick of humour at the characters' expense. Worf is the whipping boy of the NG films. A zit? A hangover? Data's "firmer boobs" comment? Is his "Is that your final answer" line in there or did they wake up and consign it to the cutting room floor with Wesley?
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The second series would be more radical still in that it would be a complete retelling of the classic Star Trek series using modern production values, bigger budgets and much, much harder-edged writing. Sure, it would be hell to try and create the same chemistry between your new Kirk/Spock/McCoy (admittedly an impossible task and, boy, would the old-time fans howl!) but I think it might be worth a try. The new series would use a three-tiered system of episode selection. The first tier would be classic episodes like "City on the Edge of Forever" or "Amok Time" retaining the same basic plot, but completely re-worked; the second tier would be those mediocre episodes, neither classic nor total duds that could be completely gutted and built into something (hopefully) new and interesting. Third tier stories are the acknowledged duds like "And the Children Shall Lead" and "Spock's Brain." The only thing these stories would retain of their originals is their titles; everything else, including plot, would be utterly jettisoned and a new episode built entirely from scratch.
I know, I know, it's not only crazy, it's absolute blasphemy to hardcore Trek fans, but I think it would be a fascinating experiment to watch these two new shows contrast and complement each other.
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I stopped just after TNG. Never paid much attention afterward. Star Trek can go to hell in a handbasket. I won't miss it.
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Star Trek is dead and everyone knows it. Time to put this cow out to pasture and let it die already. Star Trek has become so over exposed over the last 10 years that no one cares anymore.
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-The crew of the Starship Enterprise overcomes the odds to save the universe
-We're taught a lesson about how cloning is dangerous or something
-Picard wraps things up nicely by saying something vaguely philosophical
-B-9 gives us hope that that Data has not truly died (THERE WON'T BE A DRY EYE IN THE HOUSE!).
-They stand around with hands folded, always prim and proper starfleet officers, as that stupid french horn or whatever plays to end every Trek movie
-Picard and the fake Data sing so we're somewhat reminded of how much comraderie the crew has
-The audience claps in appreciation of another winning installment in the lucrative groundbreaking trailblazing inspiring generation-spanning Trek franchise. They've been entertained AND enlightened!
I'm really excited now.
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You said: "Is it just a coincidence that everything since Generations (With the exception of First Contact) has been a dud?" Well, considering First Contact came directly after Generations, that means the only dud you're referring to is INSURRECTION. So what is this great coincidence you're talking about? Explain.
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Nov 27, 2002 10:32:39 PM CST
Star Trek 24: The Return of Spock, Picard, Kirk, Data, A Wimpy K
by jedimaster7705
Sorry guys, i read the script before the sucky movie posters and all. The script wasn't bad, but i see that the "final vision" won't match up. I'll go see it, but thats it. It's time for Trek to give it a rest, no more movies for a while. Hang up everything, Enterprise and all. Let's get something original for once no more die and resurrection, no more insurrection, let's break loose. Screw Roddenberry's vision, the guys been dead for a decade, we need a completely new view on the franchise. We are a new generation, we need new plots, not like A.I. (which was relatively good mind you) but something slightly far out. Am i a cynical bastard? You bet your ass i am edith.
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Yeah, gang, I think it's time we let the Star Trek cow out to pasture.
You can't really blame Shatner for ST V, I've read in countless articles that Paramount pulled half the budget out from under him in the middle of shooting. (Or something similar). I don't care if you're Orsen Welles, if you can't have a decent budget, 8 times out of 10 dictate you won't have a decent movie.
Paramount feels it doesn't need to throw money at the "Trek" series, because the franchise makes enough money from fanboys (& gals) who are more than willing to shell out hard-earned cash for cheap pieces of plastic, AKA memoribilia. (Probably didn't spell that right.) I'm sure "Nemesis" will have a big-enough opening weekend that will justify Paramount's decision to hold back money.
Like I've said about the Muppets, the magic died with their creator. Let it go.
Now & forever, Poops -
Nov 28, 2002 12:43:50 AM CST
Fanboys cant deal with the reviews caise they know the reviews A
by 20th century fox
I loved the ST film franchise in the 1980's. I mean STII-IV and VI were a exellent arc. That was totally unplanned but looks like it was. Sadly Since Generations (with the behind the sene camera changes i.e. Rick Berman)the film franchise has sucked...The lack of talent is really starting to show...Any one who has read this script knows the film is going to suck Viacommunist Donkey Dick. But once again there are the hard core ST fanboys/girls who will wax estatic over any Trek adventure handed to them. They've bought into the Odd v. Even curse thinking that NEMISIS will run with it. But alas what they forget about the curse was the fact that the talent and behind the camera personell KNEW the franchise was on the line so they made damn sure that the next (even numbered) film kicked ass. Sadly Berman and company have gotten so complacent and know that the hard core fanboy/girl base will say glowing things about this film that there is little worry. We can see it with the sckpetism in this review. Sadly i think the review is more of a prophet than a plant. Trek fans dont want to belive it. they want NEMISIS to be a classic ST film.Theyve waited four years for thier hunger to grow and the think Sherry Lansing (do not under estimate her role in all this) Rick Berman, Brent Spiner (Once again he needs to sholder some of the burden) and yes trekkers Patrick Stuart will give them a great meal... Saldy it looks to be the same greul we've been geeting since 1994...I firmly belive it is time to put the franchise into suspended animation for a long long time. (10 years would do nicely) and return it with a new cast and a new creative staff that has no connection to Berman,Stuart etal. Trek has surived long dormat peroids before and now its time for a long period of dormacy to save it.....Send all hate mail to bankfokev@hotmail.com
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Nov 28, 2002 12:44:33 AM CST
Fanboys cant deal with the reviews caise they know the reviews A
by 20th century fox
I loved the ST film franchise in the 1980's. I mean STII-IV and VI were a exellent arc. That was totally unplanned but looks like it was. Sadly Since Generations (with the behind the sene camera changes i.e. Rick Berman)the film franchise has sucked...The lack of talent is really starting to show...Any one who has read this script knows the film is going to suck Viacommunist Donkey Dick. But once again there are the hard core ST fanboys/girls who will wax estatic over any Trek adventure handed to them. They've bought into the Odd v. Even curse thinking that NEMISIS will run with it. But alas what they forget about the curse was the fact that the talent and behind the camera personell KNEW the franchise was on the line so they made damn sure that the next (even numbered) film kicked ass. Sadly Berman and company have gotten so complacent and know that the hard core fanboy/girl base will say glowing things about this film that there is little worry. We can see it with the sckpetism in this review. Sadly i think the review is more of a prophet than a plant. Trek fans dont want to belive it. they want NEMISIS to be a classic ST film.Theyve waited four years for thier hunger to grow and the think Sherry Lansing (do not under estimate her role in all this) Rick Berman, Brent Spiner (Once again he needs to sholder some of the burden) and yes trekkers Patrick Stuart will give them a great meal... Saldy it looks to be the same greul we've been geeting since 1994...I firmly belive it is time to put the franchise into suspended animation for a long long time. (10 years would do nicely) and return it with a new cast and a new creative staff that has no connection to Berman,Stuart etal. Trek has surived long dormat peroids before and now its time for a long period of dormacy to save it.....Send all hate mail to bankfokev@hotmail.com
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Piss on you Rick Berman, you and your little toad Brannon Braga.
If this is truly another piece of feces from your creative arse perhaps at long last it will serve as the impetus for your banishment from Paramount into the badlands where the all holy Kiorok, stalking in the reeds like a Bengal Tiger (or Mugatu if you prefer) will savage your carcass until he has your head. Thus carrying it back, high for all to see his triumph in a long procession, to the Paramount lot. There he shall be hailed as a conquering Caesar. And after the showering of roses, after the lamentation of the women, we shall all weep tears of joy as the crown of Captain is laid atop his brow anew. All hail our king has returned, let the zeolously politically correct, technobable enriched, action defunct, era of Trek with starships that look like X-mas ornements be laid to rest. Begone you foul pussy Picard, you and your flute playing ilk, you with your pink sofas, you who cannot throw a punch, you who cannot drop kick anyone into unconsciousness, who cannot make a bazooka out of things laying about the desert rocks. Begone and take your fat android with you. Fire all phasers because Risk is our Business, beautiful women need carassing, and Demi-Gods need to have a finger pointed in their face and told they are wrong. Because The Shatner shall return -
Good lord, guys, get a clue, huh? The simple fact is, true Trek fans give less than a shit about your lame, slanted reviews of the movies and/or episodes because they, at least, have the open minds enough to decide for themselves whether it's good Trek or bad Trek, and God knows there's been plenty of BAD Star Trek out there (Season 7 of Voyager, anyone?). I'm no fan or friend of Rick Berman and his goon squad of one (Brannon Braga), but I'm still excited about this movie. I mean, come on, ANYTHING, even a fan-made movie, is better than Star Trek V or Insurrection.
What people ought to do are the following: 1)STOP COMPARING ALL TREK FILMS TO STAR TREK II! No Trek film will ever live up to that one, so just bloody give it up already. Don't try to improve on what doesn't need improving. Never fix what's not broken, anyone will tell you that,
and, 2) If you don't like Star Trek, fine, but don't go see the movie anyway and bitch about it so you have an excuse to piss on Trek fans. God, talk about getting a life...
So, to the main reviewer, and to Weasel, and all those other anti-Star Trek whiners out there, I think I speak for true, open-minded fans everywhere when I say > Wake me up when you've got something interesting to say.
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What the hell!!! You've read one review of Star Trek: Nemesis and you're already slating it!!!
Just wait till 13th December or 3rd January for me :'(.
One person's view is not everyones view!!
Remember this:
Some love Marmite, some hate it!! -
I ain't shedding a tear for a fucking robot who expires. Especially Data. Good riddance, you screen-time hogger. Unfortunately, now we have to deal with his alter ego, B-4, a brainless, child-like android who asks even dumber questions than Data did. Holy shit, this franchise should be killed off. To think of all the great stuff they could have done: a crossover Spock on Remulus/TNG action thriller (Nimoy's supporting role would have brought in at least an extra $25 million to the box office), the Dominion all out war, a sequel to FIRST CONTACT with a genetically superior Borg, a TNG/DS9 movie crossover set among a new civil war between Bajor and Cardassia, etc etc etc. They could have gone so many different differections instead of the Picard/Clone, Data/b-4 scenarios. What about Ambassador Worf? He's a very interesting character, reduced to a clown in the films. And Ryker? Where is the brashness and fortitude of his BEST OF BOTH WORLDS two parter? Instead we get made up new villains like the plastic surgery pricks in INSURRECTION (Sonaa), and Nosferatu and Pinhead clones in NEMESIS (Remans...) and scientists trying to manipulate the nexus. These are the villains? Even the Borq Queen was lame, she spent hours in the room trying to seduce Data - gimme a friggin break. I really miss the TOS movie days. The tears and laughter I personally witnessed in movie theatres at films such as KHAN, VOYAGE HOME and, yes, even SEARCH FOR SPOCK and UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY. These TNG movies don't excite anymore; they tease a lot but don't deliver (i.e. Picard's anti Borg "lets kill em all" speech in FC followed by NOTHING).
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..when they started making TNG movies. The series was never really about the characters but about the lame "alien encounter of the week story". So when it was all over, you had characters that really couldn't hold a candle to any of the characters in the original series. So while you could actually enjoy a pre TNG Trek movie because of the characters (even if it was somewhat mediocre); that wasn't the case with TNG movies IMHO. You didn't care about them and the stories were really lame. And Picard and Data do not make up for Kirk,Spock and McCoy.
Though unfortunately this will never happen; I wish they would make some DS9 films. The series, being stuck on a space station that didn't really go anywhere, was forced to be more character driven in it's stories. And it's characters shared the same camaraderie as those in the original series. It would probably make for some interesting movies if the right people were involved in it. But unfortunately Paramount would probably saddle it with the same producers that have made TNG series of movies and bring it down to it's level.
Never-mind we don't need that. I'll just wait for the DS9 to come on DVD -
A Captain Sulu series set on the Excelsior could've been a great show if properly excecuted. Unfortunately if Berman and Braga had anything to do with it, it'd probably resemble something to that horrific puddle of ass gravy called Enterprise. Man, that show is so middle-of-the-road. I'll be suprised if it lasts a full seven seasons.
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Look, I'd love it if NEM was fantastic. All I want is great Trek, but it is well established that is impossible with Berman and Braga in charge. Look at what they are most responsible for: Voyager and Enterprise. Look at what they ignore: TOS and DS9. TNG has been spoiled with a slate of bad movies. Sure, I'd love it if NEM were good, but I'm just going to have to settle for DS9 on DVD. That is the only great Trek left to look forward to.
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I have to say, this review did nothing to squash my desire to see Nemesis. I have read the script, and found myself liking it. I read the 6th draft, and don't know howmuch of it made it into the finished film, but I can't imaging any big changes taking place. The one change i noticed was Data's new "brother's" name. In the script I have it was B-9 (read Benign- Dr. Soong's idea of humor), where the review has it as B-4. Too bad. I liked the B-9 play on words better.
As for the rest, I can't coment on makeup, not having seen more than the trailers, and pix online. The story, however, is good. I do think perhaps there is too much focus on the action, rather than the characters. What character points are there, though, I enjoyed.
SPOILERS AHEAD...
Data's adopting of his predecessor is only natural, though I do think it's a fairly cheesy plot device. We get to see Data "feel" things over his having to shut down B-9, and there is a convienient posotronic matrix available when Data has to pay the "final price," as it were. The end result, however is worth it to me; Data is now back to being the android we enjoyed so much in the salad days of TNG.
Picard has several good scenes in the script I read. I like the idea of him confronting a younger version of himself (golly, sort of like Data. How convienient.) and not being sure if he want's to win. At first. I like to see Stewart act. To see him emote. I think we should see this in the film. I don't see the chopping of all the best scenes of a film happening.
As to the rest of the characters, well, who cares? What are they there for, anyway? None of them have any major impact on the film stories. It may be nice to see a Riker, or LaForge centered tv episode, but that's not going to happen in the films. Hell, they have to bring in characters from other of the Trek family of shows to pad the film. If our intrepid crew were enough to fill the screen time would that happen? Not at all. That's not to say the other guys don't have their moments, sure they do. But it mostly has no impact on the core story, so why bother?
This may all sound like I am bashing the film, or at least the script. I'm not. I liked it, and I figure on liking the film too. I guess I just am a bit more realistic in my expectations for a Trek film than our esteemed reviewer.
LL&P
Don -
so according to this review the even numbered film that is nemesis may aswell be an odd numbered film.lets wait till its been properly released and then we no the reviews are genuine.give it a break!aslong as it aint insurrection i will be happy.as for sulu and the excelsior-did you see him in flashback?old, fat, unable to act and not fit to be in command.maybe sulu 10yrs ago but not now.we may aswell bring kirk back from the dead!now theres an idea.star trek:return of the nexus.give nemesis a chance anyway, cus the trailer kicked ass and its the next gen crew.god help us if the technobabble crew of voyager take over, or worse, the cardboard crew of the NX 01!deep space nine would be the logical answer...
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Nov 29, 2002 3:43:24 PM CST
come on, kids, nobody thought the tenth star trek movie was goin
by peter1a
you know, roddenberry never could write. and even david gerrold wasn't that good. and it is the tenth movie of the second star trek series. is anyone surprised? really i thought we were all cynics by now.
here's the story i heard, by the way, from a a guy who knows ron goulart. he (as i'm sure you know) wrote the tekwar series under shatner's name, and i'm told somebody asked him what working with shatner was like. "shatner," he allegedly said, "is the past tense of shitner." even if it's not true, it's funny. let's all be delighted. -
nailed it - the biggest problem is the movies are written by studio hacks, not sci-fi writers. the other biggest problem is letting the stars hijack the franchise. the most interesting TNG character, for my money, has always been WORF, and he has been criminally neglected. let's face it, folks; the entire STAR TREK universe has become nothing more than PARAMOUNT's cash cow, to be milked unto death. a most undignified death.
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to all of you who say that this review is fake, ur full 'o' snot, if you recognize that reference congrats (with a drunken slur) but here's the deal, the script did say that Data's "brother" was named B-9, while all the recent promotional material for the movie (from Paramount) calls him B-4, so even a broken clock is right twice.
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These reviews are so off the mark 2/3rd's of the time I don't take them seriously.
I only read them occasionally to see what bullshit the latest "reviewer" has come to spout. Every so often there's a positive one but even those are dubious at best.
I doubt this review is even legit anyways. Just goes to show you, never trust them.
Everyone do yourselves a favor, never rely on reviewers to tell you what's good and what's not.
If I listened to every jackass with an opinion I'd never know what I liked. -
A fake review? I can't decide whether you people are deeply paranoid, just plain stupid, or both. The movie is about a goddamn Picard clone and you STILL can't bring yourselves to admit that maybe, just maybe, this moive isn't going to be all that good just because it's and even numbered trek. You want proof that it'll suck? It's being billed as the last trek movie. Translation: the TNG movie franchise is dead. We just killed it. We don't expect any rational being to give us anymore money to make trek movies after this train wreck. [i]They're giving up[/i].
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The subject part of my talkback says it all. As I was reading this I had the feeling the reviewer was trying to say something bad. This person listed reasons but with no specifics. And when he/she did they were dumb ( how else is a humaniod ship supposed to be layed out but with consoles ) I kept reading and waiting to hear something bad but, all I got was vauge interpretation. I also noticed this person skirted around saying anything good ( I've seen some of the fx from the " much touted battle scenes " and they are among the best ). Now I know special fx don't make a movie but, my point is this person couldn't even say they were good. This leads me to believe he/she just wanted to give a bad review.
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The subject part of my talkback says it all. As I was reading this I had the feeling the reviewer was trying to say something bad. This person listed reasons but with no specifics. And when he/she did they were dumb ( how else is a humanoid ship supposed to be layed out but with consoles ) I kept reading and waiting to hear something bad but, all I got was vauge interpretation. I also noticed this person skirted around saying anything good ( I've seen some of the fx from the " much touted battle scenes " and they are among the best ). Now I know special fx don't make a movie but, my point is this person couldn't even say they were good. This leads me to believe he/she just wanted to give a bad review.
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Why? Some of you have asked what motivation there would be fro a fake or bad review? The very same reason you read all this bash Star Trek drival here.
Star Fleet Academy? Excuse me ugh ( gag reflex ). That will always be a bad idea. Also some of us will not be alive in 2022. I bet this film will be good and a money maker. Despite anything I've read here I for one am looking forward to it. -
I guess you live in some paradise where people are all nice and polite and never lie, or aren't assholes.
Well here in reality there tends to be such people. They like to come out and be mean and misleading because they get off on it.
I don't trust reviews no matter what their true motive is though. If there ever was decent reviews that were ever on the spot I've rarely seen them. Most professional critics are too ctitical and amateur critics never know what they're saying. -
why no review matters here anymore? episode 2? nicest review ever for that film was right here. anyone still thinking it was good is in denial and must have never seen the originals. if nemesis sucks, i'll find out for myself while watching it. i'm listening to goldsmith's score now and it's intense. and very trippy at times.
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Every Star Trek since The Search for Spock has been retarded. The new series especially. It was never suited for a film series. The characters are obviously TV characters. The make-up has always been cheesy. Grease paint and crappy latex. The Next Generation is a turd. And, it just keeps on floating.
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...not a bang. And who buried the body? Berman,Braggga,Stuart,Spiner and Lansing. Do they really care? No. Should this surpirse anyone here? It Should not...
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The script sucked. None of the telepathic crap made any sense. Shinzon does go downhill quickly after meeting Picard. The ending is wrapped up quick with Deanna and Riker being the only ones really being sent anywhere. The dune buggy scene is godawful and out of character. I just hope the end battle looks good (and the shot of the Enterprise getting blasted out of warp is in there) when I see this on video.
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Is this review of Star Trek: Nemesis real? I dunno, but it certainly doesn't sound as if the reviewer is saying anything that is wildly improbable. Personally, I hope and pray it is bogus or at least written while having a really bad day. The Data/B-9 stuff is right in line with most folks expectations though I believe we were all hoping the "A" story would be the film's saving grace. No it appears this might not be the case and that is, of course, disheartening.
More and more I am starting to look upon Berman and Braga as Trek's real life version of Saruman and Wormtongue holed up in some Paramount office building somewhere fearing that some day the higher-ups will catch on to their collective treachary.
Aloha,
Von Bruno
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