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A wishy-washy review for STAR TREK: NEMESIS, our 1st Full Review!
Hey folks, Harry here - A few weeks ago Paramount had a super-security screening of STAR TREK NEMESIS on the Lot and I heard from a couple of folks there that the movie was dreadful. Just as bad as bad could be, but neither one of them cared to write a review about the film, however now we've got our first full on review of STAR TREK NEMESIS. It is far more even-handed than the my early conversations with a pair of folks a couple of weeks back. Chuckamuck sought out what was good as well as what was bad in the film. It seems that there is a good deal of both. Apparently the action is thrilling, but emotionally vacant. The film felt blocky and ... well, I'll let Chuckamuck tell ya how it went. This sounds like a very fair review...
Harry--
Just returned from the AMC 25 in New York City where the Next Generation
crew's latest (and last?) adventure was screened for various press and media
types on Saturday night....
Longtime "Trek" fan here, and I was excited when John Logan and Stuart Baird
were brought in from the outside to bring some fresh energy to the franchise.
I've been generally underwhelmed by the Next Generation crew's previous film
outings and feel that each of the previous installments has played more like
an extended episode of the series rather than filling the big screen the way
you expect a big-budget sci-fi movie to.
"Nemesis" is both a success and a slight disappointment. It succeeds at
delivering some nice character moments, several kick-ass action sequences and
(for once in a very long time) an intruiging villain. The cast is as
comfortable as ever in their roles and they're all given a more equal amount
of screen time than in previous movies. Some of the strong points of the
movie are the credit-less title sequence, the off-road vehicle sequence that
calls to mind "Three Kings" with its grainy bleached-out look, the Enterprise
getting the shit beat out of her, and some of the exchanges between Picard
and Tom Hardy's Shinzon. Hardy definitely squeezes as much as he can out of
his role and does an admirable job.
Less successful are some painful attempts at humor (never a strong point with
the series), some clunky dialogue and gaps in logic, and Jerry Goldsmith's
surprisingly wimpy score.
The pacing is off. I mean, there are long moments of dead air that just
scream for music or dialogue to fill the screen and which bring a lot of the
drama to a halt. This movie is pretty talky too -- there's a lot of dialogue
to explain the plot but almost all of those scenes fall flat with little or
no dramatic tension. The story feels rushed and dramatically light-weight.
You never really share the sense of dread or urgency that the crew is
experiencing, hard as everyone seems to be trying. And ultimately, the
"surprise" ending lacks the dramatic impact that it deserves.
Despite my reservations, the movie is still entertaining. It has plenty of
"Trek" references to please the fans, the production design is good, it's one
of the best-looking "Trek" movies yet, and it features some of the best
action sequences in the entire series. When Picard tells the crew to assume
battlestations, hang on for a seriously bumpy ride. Mostly, though, it lacks
the ability to suck you into a rousing adventure. Whereas in "Wrath of Khan"
(the one "Trek" movie the filmmakers have openly admitted to aspiring to) the
audience was in on Kirk's plans to sucker-punch Khan with surprise maneuvers,
here similar circumstances come across as flat and uninvolving. It lacks a
sense of audience involvement and intellectual one-upmanship that made the
Kirk/Khan duel so fun. Given their relationship, Picard and Shinzon should
have had a much more interesting duel of great minds than what they're given
here. The duality in the characters isn't explored nearly enough and the
story suffers for it.
Favorite moment: Picard driving the off-road vehicle with utter glee
Least favorite moment (TIE): Worf nursing a hangover at the wedding
reception and Troi using her empathic abilities at a crucial point in the
film. While this is one of the better uses of the character's abilities, the
way it is shot is hideous! Remember some early episodes of TOS where they
lit Shatner's eyes, with the rest of his face in shadow in that 60's
kind-of-way? They try the same cheesy technique here with Troi and it's
horrible! It's even worse when Marina Sirtis shifts her body and her eyes
fall out of that little plane of light. It screams "reshoot."
To wrap up, the movie is good fun. Logan and Baird have done an admirable
job and the film enjoys a sense of familiarity that we all feel with these
characters. And while the group I went with all enjoyed it (with certain
reservations like those above), we all felt that once again, it played like
another TV episode projected on the big screen. Still waiting for that epic
movie adventure....
Chuckamuck
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I've seen everyone of the others in the theater, might as well see this one too. Maybe its time to kill off the franchise for a decade or so. I still enjoy Enterprise (this season is better than last), but its been 20 odd years that they been making the movies. Maybe thats enough. It does not seem to have the legs of the Bond movies to go on forever
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Too bad that Paramount didn't have a few more good ideas regarding their flagship franchise's movie career. They might have had better luck if they tried harder to peel off a few layers of ideological blandness the series have all suffered from and inject some drama into the heart of things.
It also seems like they could have benefitted from a little more creative freedom for the writers and directors. After all, a bad movie made under supervision of studio bureaucrats won't do any better at the box office than a bad movie made with creative freedom, but loosen the leashes a little and you might wind up with a really GOOD movie sometime. -
I'll see it, but can we finally have a DS9 movie now please? Just DS9 though, no crappy Voyager scum better find their way into it.........
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I thought he was on the poster...
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Don't they just have a big replicator and walk up to it and say: "space ship, metal." or something like that?
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go ahead and bitch, I don't care. I think the fanboys are being too hard on Nemesis. (from script reviews onward) I'm gonna go in expecting to see the Next Gen crew at it again and enjoy what looks like a very well made flick. so fuck off. jerks.
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Why oh why, have they decided to completely alter the formula!???
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It's sad that the best of the Trek series has not yet had the film it should. The final television episode of TNG was superior to all films thus far. The original series cast had 4 good films that captured the magic of the series. TNG has not had one, although First Contact came close.
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Nov 24, 2002 5:03:01 AM CST
Give Picard the flagship of the Federation, and what happens(ove
by red raider
Perhaps that's why Janeway is now an admiral and Picard is still only a captain! At least she kept Voyager in one piece! I've kept hoping Q would at least cameo in one of the NG movies. *sigh* Rick Berman can(and will) burn in hell! ____Bring on the inevitable DS9 movies. I need to see Dax on the big screen....
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They should have stopped while they were ahead. "All hands to battle-stations!" Boom! Everyone staggers to the left. Boom! Everyone staggers to the right. A panel exploads in lots of sparks and a crewmember you've never seen before is killed. "Execute manuever 29 Alpha!" SEEN IT! Oh and as for the question, "Isnt the Federation sick of wasting tax payers money," humans in Roddenberry world have evolved beyond the need for money, remember? Fucking Commies.
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Star Trek sux!
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No sense in me lying. I'll go see the film. But lately, I've been going to movies more so out of obligation than sheer enthusiasm. I keep hoping for a movie to live up to the hype. But it seldom does. I liked the trailer for Trek. So I'll be there front and center. But I hope it's better than you say..
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I don't generally like Star Trek. In fact I think it sucks 99% of the time, and when it doesn't suck it mediocre. But after watching the trailer for this film I thought it might actually be good. It looked dark and menacing and not just a "trekkers" film. But by the sounds of it, Nemesis is a load of old shite. Star Wars is the only truly great space saga. TPM was ok. AOTC is brilliant. ANH is brilliant. TESB is perfect. ROTJ is ok. The only Star Trek film I have enjoyed was First Contact.
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Nov 24, 2002 10:02:00 AM CST
Dammit! I wanna see a Trek PREQUEL! I wanna see "Star Trek: The
by neofromthematrix
Another Khan movie, set from the early 2040's to the early 2050's, beginning with Khan's rise to power as he became the leader of the Eastern Coalition, and ending with the launch of the S.S. Botany Bay at the end of the Eugenist War, would RULE THE WORLD! - I know Kung Fu.
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Nov 24, 2002 10:10:22 AM CST
Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis (apparently) were awful, b
by neofromthematrix
I'm not a "Trekkie" or "Trekker", I have rarely watched the modern TV series (although the pilot to Enterprise kicked ass), but I have to admit that I agree with the great majority of film critics when I say that First Contact was awesome. Its simply THE BEST alien invasion flick that I have seen in recent memory. Now, if only the Borg Queen would travel through time to 2053 and take Khan as her mate... - I know Kung Fu.
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So its like the first three seasons of NEXT GEN?
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I was with you until you said AOTC was brilliant. Unless you meant brilliant as in: "a bright and shining example of horribly shitty, hackneyed, corporate whore filmaking." Is that what you meant?
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Jesus! I read your same BS at the other fucking ST talkback! If you want to blast something, at least have some fucking originality that extends past 'right mouse click', 'copy', 'right mouse click', 'paste'.
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I initially thought that TPM was brilliant on my first viewing as it brought all those great memories of the Original Trilogy back. Second viewing onwards its just an ok adventure film mainly aimed at kids. But with AOTC I was totally blown away. Yes, the dialogue at times is not the best written or even spoken, but its rich with detail and a lot of attention is paid to it. I have seen AOTC 10 times now. 5 at the cinema and 5 on DVD. Its truly my favourite film of the year. I don't proclaim it to be the best film of the year, but its my favourite film, the one I most enjoyed watching. Anyway, what am I doing in a Star Trek talkback, oh yeah, I was curious to see if this DOA franchise had any life left in its corpse. I'll still go see it, but I go to see nearly all films released. I love being a film student.
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I don't hold it against you for being here and I agree with you on Star Trek, all I've ever seen is average at best. I don't agree with you about Star Wars. The prequels being a mixture of the evil spooge of corporate greed and the syphilis ridden diarrhea of uncreative hell-spawn pig fucking bastards. Anyone can see that, oh wait,... you're a film student. Well, good luck with that waiter job.
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I don't really care much. AICN talkbackers aren't exactly known for rising above anything but sour little fan boys. Every one has an opinion. I disagree with yours. You sound like you have more than a shread of intelligence about you which is more than most other talkbackers here. I just find it amusing that within every talkback someone will say "LOTR SUCKZ" or "GEORGE LUCAS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD". I just find that amusing. And anyway, I suppose I'm being a hypocrite by bringing Star Wars into a Star Trek talkback. But who cares?
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NEMESIS, like AOTC, will be regarded as "much better than INSURRECTION" the way AOTC was "much better than TPM." But that doesn't made AOTC a classic Star Wars film. The review on "Corona Coming Attractions" (7/10) and the mixed review here don't bode that well for this film. I really wanted this film to be excellent, mediocre won't really save the franchise. Baird, Logan, Digital Domain, and the new blood brought in apparently was not allowed to stray far from the TNG Data and Picard usual stuff (talky speeches, Data getting in touch with himself etc). The dreaded Rick Berman "sonic wallpaper" music in the form of the once rousing and bombastic Jerry Goldsmith (ST:TMP, PATTON, THE OMEN etc)also has cursed once again. The only thing that can save it now are maybe action scenes; if those are too brief then word of mouth might not help much. The references to lame humor also are not very encouraging. Whenever they try it in TNG films (Troi's drunken scene in FC, and practically ALL of INSURRECTION - the mambo, the tit and zit jokes, etc etc)it doesn't work.
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There is nothing in that review we havent heard already, no new information. Its a patchwork of vague titbits woven together to resemble a review 'wow I fooled em and got my review posted'. The odds are heavily against Nemesis being a classic so calling it bad is hedging your bets. Come on guys, lets wait for the REAL reviews before knocking it.
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Am I the only one who did absoloutly hate and detest "Insurrection"? Sure, it was inferior to "First Contact" and "Generations" but is there a huge problem if I think the 9th movie was not as bad as people say it was? Am I a hopeless nerd? Will I need therapy for the next two decades of my life? Oh, well.
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Good idea, maybe even a Knah Ceti Alpha V movie? That would be interesting. Who to play Khan though.... The worst thing about Insurrection was all the recycled plot lines from the series run. Riker using the Joystick of Doom to steer the ship was the second worst.
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duh, my typing is like Berman's shepherding today....
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Nov 24, 2002 2:04:46 PM CST
And what IS the deal with those shitty one-word titles anyway?
by togmeister
Generations? Nemesis? Insurrection? Screw it man, which one is which? Can any but the most ardent of Trekkies even tell those puppies apart? Now, titles like 'The Wrath of Khan', 'The Serach for Spock', or 'The Undiscovered Country' had a touch of the epic about them i reckon. Ah well, out of 10 Star Trek films only one of them is above average anyway (i'm talking about Khan here folks).
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Nov 24, 2002 2:05:19 PM CST
I think the sequel should be called Star Trek: A Clone Of Your O
by chaffro
"But you're my brother, brother!"
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Let's face it; no one can chew scenery like Bill Shatner. That's whats wrong with the Next Gen crew, they take this stuff seriously and are all pretty good actors. Give me Shatner's "its just a job" attitude and over the top acting, over the emotional void that Star Trek has become, anyday. Have the Borg resurrect Kirk like in the books have him kick the Federation's ass. I want to see planets devastated, burning fleets of ship, I want the Klingons and Romulans going "holy shit, we're next!". Desparate times call for desparate measures,and believe me, a desparate measure is needed to save Star Trek.
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please say it cannot be so, that after all the mistakes of the past, the god awful voyager and bland enterprise, that rick berman has gone and f**ked up nemesis?!HOW?!two outsiders in control(although berman probably had baird on one knee and logan on the other, dictating to them what they could and couldnt do).if this is a mess up, star trek will hold no interest for me. i think enterprise is awful. its patronising,badly acted, badly written, dull and should never have been made.kirk has been, and always shall be, the first.and is it me or does scott bakula shout his lines?i watched a few original seeries episodes the other day and they were detailed in both story and characters and didnt need to spell out what was going on every two seconds. enterprise seems like its been made for nickelodeon.kirk, spock and mccoy rock. anyway, back to nemesis. rick berman should have pissedoff and let nicholas meyer do it. he was the mastermind behind 2 of the best films and saved star trek in 1982 after the motion picture. we all no that shinzon aint gonna be no khan, but what made 2 so great was its links to spaceseed.everyone who knew trek knew what happened, why khan wanted revenge and couldnt wait for him to run into kirk. the audience felt involved which might be nemesis weakness by the sounds of it.it sounds like a re hash of nick meyers films anyway-character dies, ship gets messed up,they fight in a green nebula lookin thing and theres a ship that can fire while cloaked.hmmm.this is star treks last chance to win me back. it aint gonna be a khan or undiscovered country beater, but it cant be a final frontier...can it?
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Don't forget, the music seen in the recent 5 minute preview was not actually from Goldsmiths Nemesis score but included parts of 'The Sum of all fears', 'Generations' and 'First Contact'
The film certainly *looks* better than the others in every way, and also looks to have more of an 'epic' feel to it than the two most recent films (Generations certianly didn't feel like another TV ep to me)
One thing is for sure, if you go to the film looking for a decent and entertaining action/adventure flick you won't come out disappointed.. -
Guys like Nick Meyer, Harve Bennett or even Leonard Nimoy would never be involved in any further films because of having to kowtow to Berman's Iron Grip. Though they would probably save the franchise. Nah, why bother? We all love the standard ST climax these days which involves {INSERT CAST MEMBER HERE) comes up with the master plan of rerouting the (INSERT TEKSPEAK HERE) to produce an inverse (TEKSPEAK) pulse which matches the shield frequency of the enemy's (TEKSPEAK) drive. This will cause a feedback (TEKSPEAK) wave and a (TEKSPEAK) radiation surge, causing the enemy (TEKSPEAK) system to fail. Data canibalizes some of his (TEKSPEAK) circuitry to wire into the (TEKSPEAK) conduit to make this all happen........and so it goes. You know, Rodenberry said himself once that the rule of any good drama is that the normal rules of drama must apply, whether it be sci-fi or whatever. His succesor should have surely picked up on this. So why come up with some cornball reason on which to hitch the conclusion on and not find something reasonable? It's by the numbers, cookie cutter schtick and it is extremely lazy writing. BTW, for this "on-the surface guerilla warfare" in the film, I always get a kick how 24th century weapons can't be fired out of visual range or some folliage and rocks is adequate cover. Maybe they should time travel back to Desert Storm and steal some Apache's?
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Nov 24, 2002 6:23:03 PM CST
With all of the history to draw on you think they would have a k
by warlock411
We all know Star Trek history so the writers could draw from it and not only make us feel at home in the story but make us CARE about what happens. I find myself pulling for the bad guys in the last few movies.
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New Star Trek is dead. Nobody cares about it but a few geeks at this point. Bring back Kirk and Spock one last time and then retire this tired franchise for at least 10 years.
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That poster with Scorpio is awesome...oh wait, it's for Star Trek.... oops...
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Okay, everyone knows the crew of the original series wasn't a deep group either, but really what could they do with Picard and company that would make it resonate emotionally anyway? Think of the brilliant idea of making Kirk an admiral thus giving him an crucial conflict which could play out over several films. Then add the story with his son(consequences of his womanizing), the death of Spock and his love/hate relationship to commanding the Enterprise and finally his impending mortality. Do ANY of these themes haunt anyone on Next Gen? Riker seemed to forget he was ever ambitious right after the Borg two parter. He's got to be the oldest first officer in Starfleet. He was hurting his career by staying put back in the fourth season! Now he's got to be a joke, even if he DOES take a new command in this movie. Picard is happy where he is. Just happy. Killing off his family in Generations was a waste of a good device for making him care. And he got over damn quickly too. Everyone else is just so damned upbeat. Even Data and La Forge aren't really bothered by their "handicaps," even though in the movies that's about all that defines them anymore. Worf was the only character with real on-going problems, what with both his wives dying, his wayward son, his tortured (and currently amnesiac) brother, the death of his parents, his conflicted loyalty and now his role in the Klingon Empire's leadership. HE could easily carry a movie given all that stuff, but he's always just a supporting character in the movies. It's shameful really. Meanwhile, when the Enterprise D or E is compeletly or almost destroyed, there's really no emotional reaction from the characters(Data's damn CAT got more emotion out of anyone than the ship crashing in Generations). It's like they're all out of Monty Python and the Holy Grail and saying, "it's only a model." The problem is, the films never threaten anything that REALLY matters to them. They're so perfect, they can't be daunted. Kirk might have smiled at the end of Wrath of Kahn, but you KNEW he wasn't gonna be all right after everything that had happened to him in that outing. You KNEW another film had to be made. The Next Gen films could end at any moment and it won't mean anything. I know this is all Gene's fault actually, but we need emotional investments! I'd say you could get more out of Picard and Wesley teaming up and defying Starfleet orders to save Dr. Crusher who's been kidnapped and could be dying than you would from putting the Enterprise or Earth in jeopardy yet again. We KNOW Earth is safe, and if the Enterprise is destroyed it won't upset the characters that much--they'll get another one. The movies need to fixate on OTHER problems. I thought making this one about an evil clone who represents Picard's evil side(someone he'll feel responsible for) would give this outing some gravitas, but if this review is right then they've screwed up the one thing this movie really had going for it. Maybe the next film, the Search for Data, will be helped by the characters going out to save one of their own. DS9 would make such good movies, it's really too bad that show gets no respect. THOSE characters had issues. Any fans know of how to get at what makes Next Gen tick?
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As his abominable script for The Time Machine can attest to. The Gladiator script wasn't quite as lame, but it doesn't hold up under scruitiny. The best thing he ever did was RKO 421.
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Just to insert the good word on what lay ahead for the film series: This shall be the final TNG film only if it fails to bring in satisfactory numbers at the box office; all of this crap about 'a generation's final journey' in the adverts has struck many of those involved, even, as a queer little foible. In this regard, nothing is yet lain in stone: a lot depends upon that crucial first weekend. Nemesis supposedly has a certain finality about it, allowing it to serve as a satisfactory conclusion, while conversely many loose ends are left to be potentially built upon.
If and when the films say a permanent farewell to the TNG crew, they will no longer be about specific crews so much as they will characters, from DS9, Voyager, and even Enterprise. I read Rick Berman mentioning this on the now defunct Section31.com, but the original article from which it was extracted is undoubtedly still out there somewhere. This would make sense considering DS9 had an especial beginning, middle, and end contained within it as a whole; and what would they do with Voyager films? be continually making up crappy-ass excuses to get them back into the Delta Quadrant? There wasn't much beyond what I've said, so I don't know if they're thinking along the lines of a Benjamin Sisko film, or a mix 'n' match, or perhaps exploring an auxiliary character like Garak for instance. And there's nothing stopping them from doing say, an Enterprise film featuring the entire crew, if it suits the fancy. Maybe elements of Enterprise will show up in the films while the television series is still on: The X-Files film supposedly broke down limitations to the contrary. In any event, this opens up the series to heretofore unknown possibilities, and cannot help but be rife with potential.
P.S. Khan was cryogenically frozen at the end of the Eugenics War in *1996*, and had no involvement whatsoever in World War III. -
Nov 25, 2002 2:09:47 AM CST
When an even-numbered Star Trek sucks, it's time to end the seri
by fatal discharge
2,4, and 8 (Wrath Of Khan, Voyage Home and First Contact) are my favorites in addition to 3 (Search For Spock) which I know a lot of fans hate...but sue me, I like that one. #6 was slightly iffy but if #10 is truly bad then they might as well end the series here. Two bad ones in a row will kill off any franchise.
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The bomb in Riker's ribcage...
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How about some decent space battles for a change. The only real good one was "Wrath of Khan." I didn't care if Kirk had, or had not forgoten Khan, or if Khan want's the Genesis device, or a ham on rye. All I care about is how are they gonna blow the shit out of each other, and thats what I got. Every space battle in the TNG movies has been absolute shit. Lucas may not be able to write dialouge worth a shit, but he at least put some exciting shit in all the SW movies. The best chance for a good battle was the borg in FC. But as soon as the Enterprise showed up that cube had no fucking chance, and the battle was over in about a minute. It makes you wonder how the Defient got so badly damaged. Worf must be the worst fucking captain in Starfleet. Here's an idea for a Star Trek movie. Star Trek: Galactic Fucking War, in which the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassins (spelling?), and the Federation just say fuck it, may the best empire win. Throw in the Borg too if you want. A good space battle lasting alot more than 5 minutes would go part way to putting non Trek fans in the seats. A vital ingridient to franchise survival. Isn't it funny how people who defend this franchise always put "I'm not a 'trekker' or 'trekkie'" at the begining of their post. Yeah, sure your not. It's like giving your opinion on a sporting event, even though your not a fan.
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I will be seeing this, probably shortly after it opens. My Dad is a HUGE fan, and I've always liked it (aside from most of Voyager, of course). Personally, as far as a new direction, I always thought they should have used the Andromeda idea for the next Trek show/movie series. That would have been fairly cool.
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Except for the fact that Andromedea is the gonerrhea of Sci-Fi.
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I love next gen. it was the best show on TV... second only to DS9. But those films... oh man. They should just restore 'Gambit' or 'times arrow' and send that to the bigscreen with new special effects. Well, maybe not, but at least those episodes ended with a smile on my face.
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Nov 25, 2002 3:40:29 AM CST
Star Trek The Motion Picture (The Director.s Edition) Is The Onl
by the outlander
Star Trek The Motion Picture (The Director's Edition) has restrained performances, epic ideas, epic scope and cinematic grandeur that is missing from all the other Star Trek films.
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I'm just referring to the "post-federation" idea. Would have worked really well, and been more meaningful in a setting we're more familiar with. But then we might have not gotten Lexa Doig....
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shame, the 'buzz' has went from 'best ever' to this. why does everyone hate 'insurrection'?. i thought it had everything a startrek movie should have, action, moral dilemma's, disgusting villians, so whats te problem???. it was easily the best odd-numbered one. first contact was also good (even number of course) and well i am still looking forward to this film, they re-shot the ending of 'generations' so they will probably tweak this one and mabye pace it a bit better, we shall see
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Nov 25, 2002 8:56:53 AM CST
a tribble-load of responses (just trying to prove my geekdom, fo
by mithril
Red Raider: true, but Janeway knew she couldn't get her hands on another space ship. And maybe being in the Delta Quadrant she was somewhat shielded from the fashion craze of always turning on the damn autodesctruct sequence even if some alien just sneezes at you. ***Orionsangel: I'm sorry? "Generations" is the best Next Gen film? Well now I've heard everything. Mind you, I enjoy it a lot more if you consider that logically, Picard never gets out of the Nexus. Which explains why he then gets to kick Borg ass all action-hero style and gets a chick in every movie since. Thinking about "Generations" that way makes it nicer, since then Kirk dies because Picard wishes it. ***T-MACK: damn straight. Episode 21 is just fantastic. Oh, and the line "Activate the Omega 13!" gets me every time. ***ManosTHOF: very true, but the original conclusions weren't always that brilliant either. Ooh, Kirk fistfights a demigod to death. Ooh, Kirk talks a computer/probe/evil person to death using strange logic. ***Drath: right on. I have to say that that is probably one of the reasons First Contact is better than the other Next Gen movies so far. Picard actually has to deal with something personally affecting: the Borg, who captured him and who he's been obsessed about ever since. ***Weeble: you have a point about First Contact. Gotta remember that Picard had the insider knowledge to how to kick their asses. As to space battles, especially against the Borg, it's Voyager who've done the most damage. Oh yeah, one lowly-stocked and under-manned Federation ship takes on 4 Borg Cubes and destroys them all at once. Oh yeah, way to make the Borg seem like a genuine threat. Sheesh! ***And Logan is a hack! He's done some good work, but also a lot of truly awful stuff. "The Time Machine" was iffy at best, and "Gladiator" was awful as far as story was concerned. If an even-numbered Trek flick has been ruined, goddamn it! ***Actually, the comment on the humour not being very good is hopeful. Has Trek ever managed to do comedy well? Some of the jokes may manage to raise a smile, but Trek comedy has always been second-rate. So "Nemesis" is right on par there. ***And a DS9 movie would be good. Actually, just do a Garak movie, or Bashir vs. Section 31. Or have Garak and Bashir have a movie-length holodeck spy adventure, and I'll be happy. It might end up looking like a feature-length tv episode, but it would still be highly entertaining.
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The Next Generation movies have, on par, been worse than the OT movies. Berman's been trying too hard and pushing all the wrong elements, with only First Contact managing to reach slightly beyond the status of being an overextended single episode without simultaneously falling apart at the seams. I'd love to say that we should just leave behind the TNG crew and go with a new cast for some fresh and new Star Trek movies, but we've got nothing of any value left! I fail to see how Deep Space Nine could even approach making for an interesting script, and the Voyager crew could barely hold together for a half hour of TV time. Tu-Vac was a very watered down Vulcan with very little personality of his own, the cook was annoying, Tom Paris and his half-Klingon chick might have a decent shot at some interesting character expansion, the doctor was great but has very little room left (and frankly worked best as the cameo in FC), and Janeway couldn't possibly hold her own through an entire movie. The Enterprise crew is still too young for movie status, and frankly, the show is so indescribably bad that I wouldn't want to wish that kind of money-sink on the worst producer. So where do we go from here? I'm thinking we don't. I'm thinking we end it. As difficult as it is for Trek fans to see it happen with the TNG movies dwindling painfully and pitifully, limping toward their inevitable end, they did say that this is a "generation's final journey" did they not? Maybe it's not. Maybe Berman should just do one VERY FINAL crossover movie with the casts of DS9 AND Voyager wherein the entire universe is gradually assimilated by the Borg, the entire cast gets killed, Q and his kind also die, and it ends with a solemn "we're sorry" note, because at this rate, that's the most fitting way to finish this slow spiral down the toilet.
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It's all in the continuity of the characters and the bigger, more meaningful consequences of the things that happen in their lives. I think one of the biggest problems with the TNG movies is the fact that every movie introduces some huge and monumental threat to the entire world, the crew, everything, and it never gets dealt with again (with the exception of Data's constant enhancements). What are the long-term effects of Picard having been in the Nexus? Could we not have a subtle longing remain in his character? A bitterness and frustration with the meaninglessness of being in this world where everyone is constantly threatened and the threats are constantly averted? Isn't he sick of piloting the Enterprise? Riker, frankly, should be eyeing that Captain's chair by now anyway. Personally, I think Riker should be getting a little upset with how the Enterprise gets blown up in every fucking movie and the arrogance starts leaking through. Give Picard something to mull over. Are his days over being a competent captain over? Has the world left him behind? Picard's gotta be a little shaken after having seen this perfect Nexus, leaving it behind willingly out of honor and duty, and now he's left once again in a cold unforgiving world that doesn't seem to care about him anymore. Why does he even care? On a grander scale, where's the political intrigue? The Federation's relationship with the Klingon Empire made for a very interesting background for the OT, but no such shadow remains in the background for TNG. They had a chance with the Borg, but instead they decided to fuck them up by introducing the Borg Queen (shades of Ender's Game) and completely destroyed the (brilliant) notion of a nearly unstoppable super-organism that they originally were. The Borg weren't a hive - they were a collective, a single organism, with each being like the neurons of a single brain, and they represented a plague of evolutionary "perfection" that continuously spreads across the universe like so much gray goo. And what's with the pitiful way they've forced Worf into a position of farcical comic relief? They dunk him, humiliate him, make him hung over and sick, and frankly, there's no respect for such an interesting character anyone. Worf is Berman's bitch, and it's sickening. Worf should be on his own again - he doesn't need this shit. Why bring him back every stupid movie and not have something more interesting to offer? He's got plenty to be upset about, and yet no inner turmoil, no interesting inter-character conflict, nothing. So we're left with cardboard cut-outs of what these characters once were, playing out in one meaningless spectacle after another, and like I said above, it's on a steady spiral down the toilet. Let's just kill it all off and say we're sorry, we're done with it, and we'll never do it again.
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I was just thinking, exploring my PhD topic the other day (I'm not shitting you). Whatever happened to the term, "going where no one has ever gone before"?? NextGen Trek (God Love em) have been going one place and place only in their films --THE PAST. Either literally or metaphorically. Whoever made the distinct comment about a ship getting blown to shreds in every movie and no one the worser for it, no consequences, no regre --Yeah, what's up with that shit??!
Where's a pissed-off Picard? Not for some narcisstic personal vendetta reason, I'm talking about Picard stripped emotionally and corporately--of his badge for destroying so many fucking ships? There is drama in this story! Come to think of it maybe the good slapping around he gets (OUCH!) from Janeway in this film is exactly what his character deserves! Too little too late, possible. Ahhhh fuck it I'll still be there as close to opening day as humanly possible. I can't say no to Stewart. For a real Stewart performance-- watch "SAFE HOUSE" a cable movie he did a year or two ago. Pale and paranoid as a mofo, he's superb in that film. -
because she was tired of making out with a guy whose prosthetic teeth cut her lips all the time. It may not be the sole reason for her departure but she wasn't very happy about it. So she ended up tending bar at a crappy cafe in NYC for wasshisface from Cheers. What happened to the Reggie character, anyway? BTW Michael Dorn has been criminally misused by ST, he is far and away the most handsome man on any of the ST series and they've got him covered up in Klingon makeup. Dammit. I'd like to see a sitcom with Dorn as a regular guy rooming with Quark (Armin Shimerman in full Ferengi makeup, he looks better as a Ferengi). A new take on the odd couple. Sure to spawn a movie trilogy as well. Paramount can pay me later when they start raking in $$ on the Burger King tie-ins.
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Nov 25, 2002 3:16:04 PM CST
People can't be taken seriously when they say a Trek film is bad
by blok narpin
Give my 25 negative reviews and I won't take it seriously. People love to bash Trek. When Trek is at it's worst people bash it, and when Trek is at it's absolute best? People still bash it. DS9 was the best of the five shows, and it was bashed. Enterprise is currently doing some excellent episodes. It is bashed. First COntact was an incredible movie. DEFINATLY deserving to be called "epic". People say it sucked. With these films each fan must decide for themselves because the reviews can't be taken seriously.
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First Contact was riddled with so many plot holes it was a joke. I'm not always ultra-picky, but I corresponded with a friend after seeing the movie, and detailed two pages of moronic failures in logic and continuity. I was surprised to get a response with another page or two of problems that I hadn't even thought of. If nothing else, when in the past, don't contaminate it by telling people what the future holds. Star Trek itself has told stories which emphasized how important it is to not contaminate the timeline. The Enterprise crew were tripping over themselves to screw with Cochrane's understanding of the future. Insane. And don't get me started about the scene where Picard and Alfre Woodard narrowly escape the Borg, who are still in hot pursuit, then decide to have a liesurely chat about things while looking out the window. Yeah, that First Contact was a freakin' classic. And by the way, I agree that the franchise is dead, and that The Motion Picture was that only film that felt like...well...a motion picture. The others are all glorified t.v. episodes. I, for one, won't be seeing Nemesis.
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In First Contact, playing "Magic Carpet Ride" while they were testing the ship was, in terms of sphincter-clenching wretchedness, second only to the "bouncing ball" sing-along in Insurrection. Cheesey.
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...I am still more than happy to give my $5-10 to ANY Star Trek film (unless they get REALLY STINKING BAD, which I don't think any of them have been) rather than most of the dreck that inhabits the cineplexes. About what Doubting Thomas said though, I think he is correct. All Good Things is not only the best NG film, it may well be the best Trek film, or at least fall second to TWOK. I would take that a step further and say that there was 2 other NG two-parters (sorry I don't have my DVD's yet, and I'm not a super Trekkie, so I don't know the episode titles)that are better than most of the Trek films. Those being the Locutous two-parter and the two-parter where Picard goes with Worf to defend his family honor. Excellent stuff! Also, the two-parter (unification?) with Spock. Why can't they make a movie this good. Lastly, as long as people are sticking up for the films they like, I like them all! But of the ones that regularly get dissed, I really enjoy Generations. Kirk's death is lame! But otherwise, I quite enjoy that film (plus Shatners trek books take of from that movie, and I love his Trek books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).
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Mostly all of you people who trash Trek in here don't know WTF you are talking about. Spelling words wrong, mentioning false facts about the shows and movies, and complaining because you don't have any clout in Hollywood. You people make me sick by spelling Tuvok Tu-Vac is totally hilarious (see empyreal0's post) and ridiculous. This person even assumes "Tu-Vac was a very watered down Vulcan with very little personality of his own." I disagree because I found Tuvok to be deserving of the role that Leonard Nemoy created. Oh, lynxpro, you are a farkin retard! Spelling Whoopie Goldberg's Guinan Ginan?------->All you idiots just keep writing because I enjoy laughing. I will go see this movie, be entertained, and that's it. That's all it's worth, and I wouldn't bitch and moan because I know I don't have any power to make things different. ______---KNEEL---______ before Z0D
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Don't be so self righteous about spelling mistakes when you seem to lack in the perfection department yourself. Leonard "Nemoy" would probably agree, whoever the hell he is. And they did try with Tuvoc to develop him to a degree but he was as limited as anyone else on that show with no serious long term character development. Why? Because the writers always wanted to leave everything at "square one" as much as possible, making syndication easier because you could watch any show of the season and basically see the same character with no changes. The writers have as much admitted to this. And as a long term fan I can not stomach Tuvoc wanting to rat out Kirk and Sulu when he was on the Excelsior. Good one Berman, I could barely stand the show after that one.
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Because I need some good Trek. The current series just plain sucks and if the movie isnt good and doesnt do good, I am guessing this will be it for Trek but who knows really, Trek has needed a rest for sometime and Paramount keeps letting Berman and Braga crank the shit out at an alarming pace(Enough already guys!)
Ive always thought the Next Gen movies suffered from Spiner always insisting he needs to be the center of the whole movie or he wont do it. Datas pinochio thing grew old a long time ago.
When the stars start injecting there opinions into the scripts like Patrick Steward did in the last movie and Shatner for Star Trek 5, the movie starts to suffer because they have so many writing contraints.NOTE TO ACTORS, go in and act and let the script writers do their thing. Leave your ego at home.
I say take Enterprise off, put Farscape on, which is good Sci Fi and let Trek rest for 10 years. Leave us wanting more. -
I am a longtime Star Trek fan and I just had to add that Tuvok and Tuvix sucked. Even Nimoy said his character was nothing more than an imitation of Spock. He added nothing to the show or to being a Vulcan.
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Not like us Trekkers! What with all our conventions and wearing our costumes and sewing our costumes and cruising the internet for Kirk/Spock porn and our Furry Orgies. So fuck all y'all... This movie is going to kick so much ass, a Klingon would be like: "wow. thats alot of ass kicking and I'm a Klingon, so I've kicked alot of ass in my day, so I know."
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No killing is necessary for Star Trek. This franchise is already dead.
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Isn't the simple truth that we want to see a huge Star Trek Warfilm? Take one of those DS9 episodes and make it full on for 2 hours. Let's have the Borg on an all out invasion of the alpha quadrant with the alpha quadrant throwing everything they have at the Borg in an effort to stop them.
Paramount....please let me write the next movie. Oh go on -
As all of you know this is the 4th Next Gen movie, i'm not a die hard trekky, hell my id is a star wars reference. But the point is, please be original, i read the script months ago, this movie is just a mixture of the best parts of the "original" series movies. Death of a major character, massive space battle with a cloaked ship, you name it. Let's just do what Paramount almost did and hang up the Next Gen crew, lets use a crew with no half vulcan, half betazoid, klingon raised by humans crap. Maybe even a crew that wasn't first shown on a tv series. That is my ranting and raving. But no matter how much it may suck, i will go see it. I recomend you all do the same.
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One I agree stop making spin-off show every 7 years, even star trek fans need a break, two Nemesis is on the right track by bringing a new director, and writer to make the movie. And stop this have a action pack one then a dramatic movie then next, that is why the even # movies seemed to be better. Also stop cutting down the movie to be around 1hr. 30 mins I go see a movie to be longer that a tv show, for that I wait for the movie to hit rental stores.
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