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Herc's Seen BIRDS OF PREY 1.1!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Birds of Prey 1.1 FAQ
Is it any good?
Judging from the “old” pilot, the one Herc saw with Sherilyn Fenn and a different clocktower set, it is! There is much to recommend about this propulsive and well-considered new take on DC’s comic-book universe. Herc would even go so far as to suggest that the folks behind the “Birds of Prey” TV show did a better job of re-invention than the the powers at DC Comics did in the mid-1980s. It fits the WB’s successful youth-oriented formulas and takes the agreeable scissors-and-stapler approach to comic-book continuity that served the original “X-Men” cartoon series so well.
What’s TV’s “Birds of Prey” about?
In a nutshell: On the night Batman and Batgirl finally bust up the Joker’s crime ring, Batman spares the Joker’s life. Later that night, the Joker puts a bullet in Batgirl’s spine, and one of the Joker’s henchmen slaughters Catwoman. Months later, a despairing Batman disappears from Gotham City for good. Seven years later, the crippled Batgirl and the superpowered daughter of Batman and Catwoman team with a blonde psychic named Dinah to deal with the growing number of superpeople plaguing New Gotham.
Is this based on DC’s “Birds of Prey” comic book?
Very loosely. The main element borrowed from that title is the crippled former Batgirl, who continues to fight crime as “Oracle,” the wheelchair-bound brainiac headquartered in a Gotham City clocktower. But in the “Birds of Prey" comic, Catwoman still lives, Batman never retired, Oracle’s only regular partner is master martial artist Dinah “The Black Canary” Lance, and “The Huntress” is the daughter of neither Batman nor Catwoman (and she doesn’t have any superpowers). A lot of the elements in the TV series are borrowed from other comic-book tales, notably DC’s Earth-2 stories of the 1970s.
If it’s so different, why even call it “Birds of Prey”?
Maybe because it’s a far cooler title than “Gotham Girls” or “The Oracle and the Huntress.”
What was that about Earth-2?
Until the mid-1980s, DC Comics published stories set in an alternate universe dubbed “Earth-2.” All the “Golden Age” heroes DC introduced in the 1930s and ‘40s, like Jay “Flash” Garrick, Alan “The Green Lantern” Scott and Carter “Hawkman” Hall dwelled there. On Earth-2, Bruce “Batman” Wayne and Selina “Catwoman” Kyle eventually married and had a daughter named Helena Wayne. Helena grew up to become a successful lawyer. The night Selina was shot to death during a robbery, a shattered Earth-2 Bruce Wayne burned his Batman costume and retired from crimefighting. The equally shattered Helena subsequently transformed herself into the Batman-like Huntress and avenged her mother’s death.
Did the Joker cripple Batgirl in the comic books?
Yes, in one of the greatest Batman stories ever told - a one-shot written by supergenius storyteller Alan Moore titled “The Killing Joke.” In the comic, though, the Joker has no idea Barbara Gordon is Batgirl. (Barbara’s shooting was just one element in the Joker’s elaborate plan to drive her father, police commissioner James Gordon, insane.) In the “Birds of Prey” pilot, the Joker hisses, “Batgirl – past tense!” right after he fells the out-of-costume superheroine.
Okay, back to the “Birds of Prey” pilot. After Batman retires, does everyone learn Bruce Wayne was Batman?
No. In fact, most everyone thinks Batman never existed and is just an urban legend.
When Selina Kyle dies in the first scene of the pilot, does everyone know that she was also Catwoman?
A newscaster reporting on Selina Kyle’s death notes the “mysterious and beautful businesswoman” was once accused of leading a double-life as the jewel thief Catwoman.
Are Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle married when she dies?
Apparently not. Wayne doesn’t even know he has a daughter until Selina is murdered. (Helena’s last name in the series is Kyle.)
How do Barbara Gordon and Helena Kyle come to be partners?
Somewhere between Selina’s death and Batman’s retirement, Bruce Wayne gave Barbara full custody of Helena.
How does Dinah join the fray?
On the night Catwoman was killed and Batgirl was crippled, Dinah had a vision of them, and has literally dreamt of joining them ever since. Her psychic abilities eventually lead her to New Gotham, and to her future partners.
Since Batman and Catwoman don’t have superpowers, how come Helena does?
Actually, in this elseworld, Catwoman appears to have had superpowers. It should be established in a few episodes that Helena is “half-meta,” sharing both Catwoman’s superpowered genes and Batman’s non-superpowered ones.
Is there any question Helena is Batman’s daughter?
No. Both Barbara and butler Alfred Pennyworth confirm as much, and not much gets by these two.
What kind of superpowers does Helena have?
Like Jessica Alba’s character in “Dark Angel” (who also got a lot of assistance/guff from a wheelchair-bound character), Helena Kyle seems to have a lot of feline DNA rattling around inside. She can see in the dark and is pretty good with the leaping and climbing. On this latter front, she’s going to remind a lot of people of the girls in “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.”
"Dark Angel"? Ew. Does The Huntress indulge the hopelessly dated “whack dope chillin” hip-hop argot that plagued the transgenic Max?
She does not.
Is Batgirl Barbara Gordon (as established in the 1960s TV show and comic books) or is she Barbara Wilson, niece of butler Alfred Pennyworth (as established in that piece-of-shit Joel Schumacher movie “Batman & Robin”)?
Barbara Gordon.
Is Barbara Commissioner Gordon’s daughter?
Her relationship to the elder Gordon, if any, is undisclosed in the pilot. The fate of the good commissioner is also not revealed in the pilot.
Is Barbara a librarian by day?
Her day job in the pilot is undisclosed. Unfilmed script pages, however, indicate that Barb teaches a high school computer lab when she’s not thwarting evildoers.
Unfilmed script pages?? What else was cut?
The pilot originally explored more of Barbara Gordon’s personal life; it’s established that she recently and reluctantly broke up with a handsome feller she was seeing for six months. When he presses her about why she left him, she said, “It’s not you.” Also? Cut script pages establish that Oracle’s HQ is situated atop New Gotham’s tallest building. And that Dinah’s last name as “Lance.”
Ah! So the blonde teen psychic named “Dinah” is actually Dinah Lance, the Black Canary?
Dinah has almost nothing in common with the comics’ Black Canary. The TV Dinah has no martial arts abilities, no criminal-debilitating scream, and no boyfriend named Ollie Queen. Bear in mind also that the comics’ Dinah Lance is a natural brunette and possesses no pyschic powers.
Why even call her Dinah at all?
In the “Birds of Prey” comic book, Dinah Lance, the Black Canary, is the Oracle’s regular partner. Also, we will learn a few episodes hence that Dinah’s mother, 38-year-old Carolyn Lance, was – unbeknownst to Dinah – a super-scream-wielding crime fighter named Black Canary. (Note that in current DC Comics continuity, Dinah Lance inherited her Black Canary superhero persona from her mother.)
Is Helena Kyle a lawyer?
She’s a bartender. Which is slightly odd, because she’s heir to the same Wayne forture that finances Barbara’s operations. (We chalk this up to profound abandonment issues.)
Why is it “New” Gotham?
In the comics, Gotham City recently suffered a devastating earthquake. The “New” may reflect that the series is set post-quake. (It's ludicrous, admittedly, but the best theory I've got.)
Are the terms “Huntress,” “Oracle” or “Black Canary” ever uttered?
“Huntress, it’s Oracle, do you copy?” says Barbara the first time we see her in the wheelchair. Nothing about canaries, however, black or otherwise, until the upcoming episode introducing Carolyn Lance.
Is Catwoman in costume when she dies?
No. And the extra they cast as her corpse looks a whole lot more like Michelle Pfeiffer than Julie Newmar.
Is the guy playing Alfred as good as we’ve heard?
He’s great, but one suspects people are just excited to see such a faithful rendering of the character. Alfred, after all, is the character in the “Prey” pilot most familiar to “Batman” fans.
Is it true the Scarecrow is the main villain of the pilot?
Sort of. “Birds of Prey” seems to be following “Smallville’s” lead when it comes to steering clear of colorful costumes, but the lead villian essentially uses the Scarcrow’s scare-potion power to get what he wants.
Is this fear-potion villain named Jonathan Crane?
No. The show seems to be changing the names of some of the classic Batman villains to keep fans of the comics from catching on too quickly.
Is “Birds of Prey” set in the same universe as “Smallville”?
Perhaps. There’s a reference to meteors perhaps being partly responsible for the growing plague of superhumans. But any crossovers may have to involve time travel; “Smallville,” we're guessing, is set years before “Birds of Prey.”
That police detective guy, Reese. Why does he look familiar?
Shemar Moore, who plays him, has been hosting “Soul Train” since 1999.
What’s good?
So many things. While the script takes the important parts of the “Batman” mythos pretty seriously, the Huntress character brings a lot of well-placed dark levity to the proceedings. The WB netlet catches a lot of flack for infusing its shows with alt-pop tunes, but Herc likes the technique; in this context, it lends special creedance to the idea that this is not the Gotham depicted in all those horrible “Batman” movies. The pilot is also good about keeping the Huntress, the only character who’s any good at fighting, from dominating the pilot too completely. (Not that the fighting isn’t great; wait till you see the supercool way the Huntress twists her torso into frame with the line, “I’m the Huntress. And you’re the prey.”
Is the pilot better, as some have said, than the “Batman” movies?
Yes. Herc, who loved “X-Men,” “Spider-Man,” the first two “Superman” movies, disliked to varying degrees all four of Warner’s “Batman” blockbusters, which he regards as disgraceful in terms of storytelling and character development. To say that “Birds of Prey” does a better and more respectful job with the Gotham mythos isn’t really saying much, but "Birds" certainly does.
Is the WB finally over aping “Buffy the Vampire Slayer”?
In no way. 1) Despite being confined to a wheelchair, Oracle’s stewardship over Gotham’s crime scene reminds one more of Rupert Giles than Charles Xavier or Niles Caulder. 2) The actress playing Dinah seems to be channeling some of Dawn Summers’ endearingly squirrelly enthusiasm. 3) The Huntress, between body-kicks, shares the slayer’s ambivilence about her role as thwartress of evil.
What’s not so good?
It’s hard to tell sometimes how seriously we should take the leads’ verbal sparring. Should we take Helena at her word when she talks about killing the bad guys? One sort of hopes so - after all, her life might be very different had the Batman just put the Joker out of his misery when he had the chance. In any case, a lot of the Huntress-Oracle dialogue Herc saw in the “old” pilot is said to have been revised and reshot. So perhaps this ambiguity has been addressed.
How does it end, spoiler boy?
In a way that cannot be revealed without inviso-text! In the pilot Herc saw it’s established in the final minutes that Quinn, the psychoanalyst appointed by a judge to help Helena with anger management, is psychotic. She carries on the Joker’s legacy just as the Huntress carries on Batman’s, and is responsible for all the villainy perpetrated in the pilot.
Enough of Herc’s yammering. What do the real critics think?
TV Guide says:
Dark, deluxe and brimming with sensual danger, this lavish action-fantasy is a little stiff dramatically at the outset but has the potential for cult status. Purists may bristle at the changes from the comic-book mythology, but we lesser mortals can only thrill as these birds take flight.
Variety says:
… After the success of the Frog's other superhero series, "Smallville," writer Laeta Kalogridis ("Lara Croft: Tomb Raider") further invigorates the concept with a femme-empowerment spin … With "Birds of Prey," Kalogridis has crafted a tidy concept, crossing an idol with a villain to make a new breed -- slightly naughty, definitely conflicted but with some serious kick-ass power. … Meyer brings a good deal of balance as the seasoned veteran, but as a trio, the actors and characters are clunky. The power of three has been done before, and "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" has the lock on using the supernatural experience as an analogy for real life. Perhaps the producers can learn from the demise of shows such as "Dark Angel" and realize that good looks and highly stylized action aren't enough.
The Hollywood Reporter says:
there's a new team of superheroes -- a trio that's tough, sexy and quite capable of rounding up any stray teen and young adult viewers in the time period. …a fine, fun and artfully executed fantasy action series. … Although each "Bird" is appealing in her own right, and they share solid chemistry, Scott's Huntress steals practically every scene in which she appears. Defiant one moment and vulnerable the next, Scott is the perfect choice for this action hero with attitude. … an episode that is both traditional and futuristic, combining the old-fashioned values of comic book heroes and the sensibility of contemporary youth culture.
The Los Angeles Times says:
Why would it succeed? Try self-mocking humor and gorgeous dominatrixes in leather. … Even though the caped Big Guy himself is somehow absent from New Gotham, "Birds of Prey" follows in the great tradition of superhero noir. It's grim, dark, smoky and, most important, ripping good fun as these butt-kicking Dynamic Dolls have themselves some nights on the town.
Herc’s rating for “Birds of Prey” 1.1?
***1/2
The Hercules T. Strong Rating System: 9:00 p.m. Wednesday. The WB. (Special VCR Alert: remember that tonight’s supersized pilot runs 70 minutes with commercials.)
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first? cool.
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After reading this breakdown, I'm actually interested in the show now. The teaser commercials did nothing for me (in fact, I openly cackled when I saw the pouty-lipped valley girl declare "I AM a weapon"), but the description of what the writers are doing and how they're framing the show looks pretty interesting. But Enterprise comes first. And you can't film one channel while watching another using a VCR with DirecTV. Gots to get the TiVo.
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My penis itches.
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Yes... I'm using gay as a derogatory word. Anyway, I saw the pilot for BOP, and if it
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I believe this is going to be 70 minutes long, so set your VCR correctly.
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Nuff said. Too bad I'm so hungry for anything based on comics I'll probably watch it anyway. I'm such a sucker for super heroines in leather pants. at least Buffy is still good.
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He has been on The Young and The Restless for 8 YEARS that is where he is best known from.
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Oct 09, 2002 2:59:28 AM CDT
It Looks & Sounds Like Bubble Gum Bubble Blown From A Fart!
by sam bones
Every frame of every moment of this series that I've seen in the commercials looks like TV crap. And listening to this review only confirms it. The actress playing the Huntress can't act her way out of a paper bag but that's TV for you. Looks over substance. Any show that has to be completely overhauled and retooled to the extent this show did just illustrates how boneheaded the people running it are. CATWOMAN has superpowers? Batman would spare the Joker's life? The Joker knows who Batgirl is but doesn't do anything about it earlier? Jeez, the core plotting of this travesty REEKS! It's not built on changes that enhance the original material and characters, it just throws it all out to shoehorn trite conventions to allow for a three woman super-squad. It's bad TV CHARLIE'S ANGELS crap for gawd's sake, not the wonderful mixed genre subterfuge of a well done comic book! "Sheesh!", as they used to say back in the 60/70s when the knowing Marvel Comic writers and artists mocked this kind of pop flatulence.
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that's cool. I thought it was gonna suck but it sounds interesting. Sounds like they kept it dark and true to the comics to a certain extent. But then it could blow. I'll actually try and tape this one. If it's good, don't let fucking Abrams near it.
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Batman doesn't kill, thats his thing. He always spares the Joker's life.
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Oct 09, 2002 4:51:19 AM CDT
This show is going to suck. Why is the WB afraid of using costu
by steal_dragon
Mia Sara looks like a Soccer mom, not a bad girl. Is this going to be her punchline, "Alright Bird's of Prey, I am going to kick your behinds, but first I have to drop Bobby off at Soccer tryouts, get Susie ready for her best friend's birthday party, run right home to perform my wifely duties for my husband, and bake some cupcakes for my luncheon in favor of my woman's club, "Battered Wives Anonymous." The show had potential with Sherilyn because she looked like a super bitch and probably could do the role well, but now it just looks like a sad Buffy ripoff seen through the eyes of an alcoholic visualizing three girls instead of one.
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Perhaps they're basing this on Catwoman in Batman Returns...it was never satisfactorially explained in that movie exactly how Selena Kyle survived that fall from the building. They implied that somehow alley cats brought her back to life! -- what was all that about?? So maybe the BoP producers are working on the assumption that the audience will remember Michelle Pfieffer's Catwoman and are now explaining to us how it was that she became Catwoman.
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Of course I doubt the creators realize this. Formulaic is the key word here. This thing is an insult to the direction comic books have taken in the past twenty years. The quicker it dies the better. Enough with the fluff.
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is it Michael Gough who has Played Alfred in All 4 of the Big Budget Movies (and who in my opinion was the Best Thing about All of 4 of them!) and every single Batman tie in Commercial since 1989! or someone new?
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> Somewhere between Selina
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This show will goover pretty well with people not familiar with the comics in anyway.It will also go over well with comic fans who don't care and look at different takes on mythos as being simply a parallel universe, a story outside continuty. However, the Hard core fanboys&girls will be blasting this on the net as soon as the show is over. I am a huge fan of comics, and am willing to go with the whole "outside of continuty thing", but this will be sooo out of continuty it is going to be hard for a lot of fans. I will however be able to enjoy it if A certain Ollie Queen shows up to reveal to young Dinah that him and old Dinah are her parents and if the Blue Beetle and/or Robin and Nightwing show up. Also the story behind this Dinah...She's a psycic, but she has been adopted. The original Black canary does show up to visit for two reasons, to she her daughter and b/c her and Barbara worked together.
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I did not see the finished work but still, I don't know... something about this show does'nt work. I loved the cinematographie. The fights where ok. The Joker looks horrible. Though Mark Hamill's voice makes him totally creepy. Too bad we barely see him. I'm not sure what does'nt work but I can't identify with any of the caracters. The story is a bit rought edged, lots of cliches and I don't like the damn wireless almost flying huntress. It's stupid. They are a few good moments but most of the time I keept rolling my eyes while these girls tried to simulate emotion that was'nt really there. Trying to make you feel compasion and/or pitty for them but I find myself uninterested and bored. The caracters are so plain, 2 dimentionnal, uninteresting... well, they are comic book caracters and it shows... too much... And Harley Quin is well, barely in this one but I'm worried about what they'll do with her caracter. I hope it eventually works though. Maybe with a few other episodes they can develope the caracters more, give them more depth and personality but for the moment, I'm completly turn off at the idea of watching any other episode.
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Oct 09, 2002 9:05:57 AM CDT
based on the fact that Herc loves his camp and didn't like t
by moose of heaven
...I predict that this show will, as everyone already knew, completely suck. "I'm the Huntress and you're the prey"?!! What the fuck?
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Why Birds of Prey?
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This is just my opinion,I'm sure this show is going to be better than good.However, speaking as a Batman fan , I would have prefered to see 'Birds of Prey' as they really are in the comic book.Oracle and Black Canary! I also think they should stay away from Batman and Catwoman having Huntress as their child. I've always believed in the concept that if its not broke than dont fix it. But I'm still going to wach this show.
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From what I've seen, Alfred is played by Ian Abercrombie. He fits the "kindly old man who can keep a secret" image that Alfred, and Michael Gough, is supposed to possess.
Kinda sucks that it's not Michael Gough playing Alfred, but they got Mark Hamill to voice the Joker, so they do still respect continuity. Plus we still have those OnStar Batman commercials (I think) that Gough can star in...
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I saw the original pilot (the one with Fenn) a few months back, and I thought it was decent. Certainly not Buffy level excellence, or even as fun as Smallvile, but good enough to build on. Maybe it was because I went in NOT expecting greatness. I love Sherilyn Fenn (have since "The Wraith"), thought Meyer looked excellent in the Batgirl flashback sequences, and Ashley Scott? Well, it was that original still of her and Jude Law that made me want to see A.I., and I'd have rather had three hours of her standing around in that catsuit than the Crapfest that movie turned out to be. I'm hoping the fine tuning they did can help compensate for Fenn's departure in some small way (Though I was hoping to see her in the Harley Quinn costume at some point, Damnit). I'd never pass up a Buffy or Sopranos for Birds of Prey, but it's got a good chance of geting my vote over the dumb fun of FASTLANE, or the borefest The West Wing has been recently.
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... because I haven't seen the final pilot. But I'd give the Sherilyn Fenn pilot about three and a half stars.
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I take it Herc didn't see the new pilot, just the old one, because he doesn't say anything about Mia Sara as Harley Quinn, taking over the role for Fenn in the revamped pilot. I'll give this one a shot--it could be good--but I really hope that Catwoman will not stay "dead," and that Nightwing will appear as his chemistry with Barbara Gordon is great in the comics and would be extremely welcome in a TV show like this. I still think Jared Leto is the man for the job, and I'll bet he'd have good chemistry with Dina Meyer to boot.
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Looks really fucking Stupid... not worth my time... stupid cliches... why did they have to make the girls SUPER hot? I don't like the idea that Batman has given up crime fighting... why couldn't they use their efforts on Batman: Year One or something... what crap that I won't be watching...
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But I think I speak for everyone when I say I'd rather have a show about Batman, or even a show based in a different city with an out on his own Nightwing.
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When this show was building it's momentum as a good upandcoming series for the fall, another talkbacker on this sit stated something to the following: Batman would NEVER give up. I will watch this show tonight, but that's the biggest sticking point to me as to why the WB should have gone with something else. I always wanted to produce a seven season story arc of Batman's rise and retirement with a year's hiatus followed by a TV four part miniseries adaption of The Dark Knight Returns. But you can't do that now thanks to this crap.
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Oct 09, 2002 3:07:54 PM CDT
The Batman movies weren't that great -- that goes for all of
by roobyroo
I may disagree with many things Herc says and prefers, but he hit the nail on the head when he disses on ALL of the Batman movies. To those who want to defend the WILDLY OVERRATED Burton movies I say: Watching Jack Nicholson prance around to Prince's "Party Man" is not something that a good film would have done. Not to mention the idiocy of having Batman move as if he were in a neck brace. Although, Keaton getting angry at the Joker and yelling "C'mon, let's get nuts!" was classic and appropriate for the character (NOT!). As for Birds of Prey, I may watch it, but it looks too much like the Melrose Place, Dawson's Creek type of action crap that is the last nail in the coffin of my TV viewing. Too many people are too easy to please, and as a result shows are getting ridiculously bad. Even the horrid Dark Angel had Cameron supporters wetting themselves, and that was utter crap. If Birds of Prey only matches the soap-opera, kryptonite fest known as Smallville, it will be a failure.
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I'm crossing my fingers for Dina Meyer. She's not had the greatest luck with the long-lived projects.
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yes they should have a Nightwing cameo! Chris O'Donnell can play the role! j/k
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He gave up lots of time. If it makes you feel better, you can pretend the Batman of this universe is the Earth-2 Batman -- who actually did quit after Catwoman was murdered! Or the Batman who disappeared for years prior to the events of "The Dark Knight Returns." ******* ******* ******** ********* *********** If they ever do another "Batman" movie or series, they should really consider losing the costumed, sanity-challenged villains. Let the Batman deal with the murderous bullies who REALLY terrorize on the modern urban landscape. That's how I would do it.
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pay attention. Oracle's day job isn't revealed in the pilot? Her first non-Batgirl scene shows her in a classroom giving advice on favorite Shakespeare plays....
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Oct 09, 2002 4:59:06 PM CDT
Its opposite WestWing, not Enterprise... (and my thoughts...)
by skiffypup
Oh man, I have to watch the Agels/Twins game at 5:15... Then Enterprise ... I suppose I'll only see the end of that. I plan to give BOP a look-see.. BUT I like WestWing! So its remote-control carpal tunnel night./// I agree with the SUPER hot looks being over the top. It makes me wary... in a "Dark Angel" way.
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I think it sounds like a cool show but the promos really turned me off. The girl that plays the Huntress sounds like shes reading (poorly I might add) right off of a teleprompter. It reminds me of why I cant bring myself to watch Dark Angel. I hope its good though. But hey if it isnt maybe V.I.P is hiring new cast members.
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That classroom scene wasn't in the version of the pilot I saw. (Again, this is why I'm waiting to see the finished pilot before applying a star rating.)
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The Huntress even LOOKS like Jessica Alba, for cryin' out loud! My gut's telling me that they've taken a good comic book and turned it into a second-rate rip-off of a third rate show.
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I realize its a little close to the whole smallville show, but wouldnt a show having the begnnings of Batman's crime-fighting career be a good show in and of itself. Bruce Wayne could be played by some hunk in his early twenties, who is rich beyond belief and lives a beyond believable playboy lifestyle, but secretly trains in martial arts, crime investigation, etc. Then show the early days of his reign as the bat, BEFORE robin and the joker and the penguin and all those comical bad guys. Have him face more realistic bad guys (as opposed to smallvilles unrealistic). He can track down serial killers, etc. AND since his origin takes place in a parallel timeline to Superman (I always imagined batman to be a little older), There could be smallville crossovers. Bruce Wayne might want to start a processing plant near smallville and makes an appearance for an episode. Have a badguy too smart for clark to face, and Bruce Wayne figures it out and is the hero (which chaffes clark's ego). my two cents
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Where do they get this dreck? Mixing and matching comic books is ludicrous.
DC must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel. If they were starved for another "comics for television" saga, I would have shot for Batman, perhaps Green Lantern.
Here's the rub, though. I always found Marvel characters more "humanistic" than DC with their character flaws, etc. Superman was the "perfect hero", Batman psychotic, etc.
Marvel played up the human flaws with Daredevil, Spiderman, even the Hulk and the whole mutant thing.
DC characters are much more difficult to give that human touch, which is why their comic book shows probably have such limited shelf life. (Hell, Bill Bixby's Hulk went on for several seasons as I recall, although it was an absolutely ridiculous show)
My prediction is that "Chicks" lasts as long as the Congressional debate on the Iraq war issue. Wait, it's over already. -
Oct 09, 2002 7:31:56 PM CDT
YEAR ONE...LONG HALLOWEEN...MAKE THESE PLEASE WB...PLEASE!!!!!
by the dude abides
I mean, fuck, you've already got the story boards. all you've got to do is start shooting.
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Oct 09, 2002 8:33:45 PM CDT
I wish DC would just stop dicking around with Smallville/Birds o
by saucy jack
...because they're trying to save their big name properties for movie franchises. The problem is they can't get get a movie franchise off the ground...can't decide on a director, a star, a script (and when they do get a script, it's like that Abrams piece of crap). Dammit, give it up. For all their flaws, the Donner Superman and Burton/Shitmaker Batman films have defined those two characters on the big screen for years to come. Work up another character like Green Lantern for the movies and make television shows for Batman and Superman. Buffy has shown us that the best elements of comics can be translated into television. Best of all, give creative control to the people who did the WB animated series for Supes and Bats. I forget their names off hand, but I sure remember the love, reverence and cleverness they brought to those shows. THAT was Superman and Batman the way they were meant to be on a screen of any size.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if you liked the original Batman, good for you. I envy you, in a way, because I really wanted to like it, too. And who fucked up this talkback? I hate it when you have to scroll to read things.
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...But she cannot act for shit. I'm sorry, but seeing whoever it was as the Huntress (Ashley Scott?) in the trailer was almost painful. Yes it does sound considerably like "Dark Angel" and that is not necessarily a good thing. So she looks hot in skintight leather, so what? She looks like a club kid, and I see enough of those here in Chi-town. If this series had been made 10 years ago she would have white face make-up and black lipstick because the psuedo-wannabe goth look was all the rage - especially for upper middle class suburban white girls - at that time. I always like the "Earth 2" idea of the huntress, as well as the "Dark Knight Returns" for the following reason - it showed characters aging, living, and dying. THAT is character development, but I digress. The characters this show is trying to portray do not inspire me to watch the show at all - they make me want to run like hell in the other direction, actually. Why is it that female action heroines never seem to smudge any makeup, or crack a nail when engaging in hand-to-hand combat? I know TV is all about pretty people in pretty clothes doing cool things - so that your enjoyment of the show will cary over to the product ads that seem to pop up every 5 minutes. I accept that - part of why I avoid regular TV now - but would it be too much to ask that after anyone gets finished in a hand-to-hand confrontation that they be bloody, sweaty, bruised, and TIRED???? And please, pretty, pretty please - STOP the bad wirework. Just because the Matrix and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Oprah used wire work, and were commercially successful, does not mean wirework implies success, nor does it mean success is dependant upon wirework. Hopefully this show will go the way of Dark Angel... Besides - its geared for the Dawson's Creek set...
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Hi...hmm...did not really like it although it had some good moments which could turn into better one in the future. I really hate the cat noise everytime Huntress moves. The program just did not move very well. The beginning flash back scenes sucked. The middle one was better. WB, if you are listening, I would do the following: (1) use as many Batman villains or new villains using old Batman villain MO as possible (like in the pilot, why did you not even mention the Scarecrow's name). (2) Batgirl should be in love with Batman. That is why she cannot hold a boyfriend. This could make for great drama between any guys she sees, that blonde girl (to hold her hand), and especially the Huntress. Also, a phone call from a mentally depressed Bruce Wayne at the end of the season asking how she is doing and Barbara getting emotional would be great. (3) Nightwing. Bring in Chris O'Donnell. He was fine as Robin and would make a good Nightwing. (4) Have a non-costumed Robin (Drake?) show up (you know, he is graduating from college and stopped by to see how Barbara was doing...mention Bruce...). Just my thoughts...any comments?
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Cause that's what it seems like. I'm waiting for the end credits to see if Akiva Goldsman gets a teleplay nod. This is NOT the best Batman spinoff I've ever had.
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Oct 09, 2002 9:48:01 PM CDT
Why I automatically had disgust for Birds of Prey and Smallville
by archangel972
Bruce Wayne. Does anyone remembering hearing about the script for the pilot? It was supposed to be a brilliant script and the plan was to chronicle Bruce Wayne's life before he became Batman. If I remember correctly, it was going to be a 5 year show. I recall Harry among others really loving the pilot script(please, no jokes about Harry also loving the new Superman script). Of course, WB didn't care for this idea of a Bruce Wayne show. So, they opted instead to use a similar concept...except it was for Clark Kent and Smallville. Now, the show really isn't all that bad but I still can't say that I ever liked the idea of Lex Luthor and Clark Kent being best of friends...what is Luthor doing there in Smallville anyways? He should be in Metropolis. Now here is Birds of Prey. I tried watching it and I couldn't stand it after 15 minutes. Like someone earlier just said, Charmed meets Sci-Fi. I hate you WB!
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That sucked. -
What the fuck was that? Lightning out of his hands? And why is the WB so prootective of their Batman franchise. They already ruined it with Batman and Robin, so why not try different things. Bruce Wayne's early years are interesting. More interesting than this new age bullshit.
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BUT i want lesbian sex.........ok....sorry.....but you cannot put dinah myers in front of the cam and not have some sex.........oh yeah.....for once the ending music fit a show....very gogod.......but i want ahot tub sceen next week damnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I love to see hot chicks as much as the next guy but BOP just sucked ass.
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Just a few random thoughts. What's with the stupid cheetah growl everytime Huntress in on screen? Cheesy! That blonde girl reminds me of Sara Polley. I can't bring myself to buy into Batman just leaving Gotham because his girlie died and a friend was put into a wheelchair. Whatever happened to vengeance? This was a very slow moving episode for an adventure show. I know they had to get through a lot of exposition, but jeez. Smallville's and Buffy's pilots had a lot of exposition too and they were paced much better. Was the psychiatrist Harley Quinn? Holy shit! That's cool. I'll give the show points for that. What happened to blondie's family? Why doesn't she have anything to go home to?The comic book adventure aspect is going to need to be upped if the show is to survive. Tonight was way too talky. Overall I got a very "eh" feeling about it. Not really bad, but not really good either. I'll stick it out for a few eps to see if it improves. L8r
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Has anyone noticed that all debate, rumors and discussion aside that was just a lousy television show?
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Holy shit my fucking christ! That actually managed to both suck and blow simultaneously. I am not even a huge follower of the comic series (Im a marvel fan myself) but i do know the basic concept of all the carachters. This didnt even come close to the comic except for some character names and a few elements of the batgirl costume. Oh and did we HAVE to have the requisite female bonding scene at the end where the 'bad girl' shows how shes really sweet and sensitive? Excuse me while I go take a 12 guage to my face.
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Wow. That was really bad. Not Black Scorpion bad, but close.
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I just watched it and I'm not really impressed. It was just average, nothing too cool about it. I would have rather watched Dark Angel 'cause that's what it reminded me off...except not as edgy. I can't get too excited about this show. I expected some gritty, edgy, post-gotham-aliptic show...but alas, I just have one less show to worry about watching. I was hoping for more of a Smallville type show, but it seems to have failed miserably IMHO. Just my 2 cents.
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this wasnt as bad as i thought it would be. dont get me wrong there were plenty of cheese filled moments but the acting wasnt as bad as it could have been. Also, didnt the joker look like Lorne from Angel?
I am Hypno Toad and I am the weapon! -
As a stand alone show who takes a lot of liberties with its source material(outside Oracle) it was at least entertaining. Entertaining like Smalliville is. They both look familiar and sound similar but are something else. I found stuff to like and dislike yet other pieces I'm going to see how they expand on. The acting was par at best but I haven't seen any pilots in the last 10 years where you see it and know its bound for an Emmy. Critics hated West Wing. I'm going to give this show the same chance I give others and would recommend others do. Let's face it the Krypto villians fell off and this show can find legs. On another note the first Burton Batman movie was great its too bad all the experts out there cant get a movie deal and put their genius minds to work!!! I'll agree they went south from there fast though.
Lets give Birds a chance to fly a year before rushing to judgement over a pilot. -
this show was at least entertaining, dark angel was anti-entertaining. the acting in that show (DA) made me sad.
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What in the hell are you people smoking?
This pilot was totally uneventful, the flashback sequences were terrible (since when does the joker shoot lightning bolts from his hands).
AND PLEASE! The reference to Smallville's meteors was the biggest crock of shit I've heard in ages.
This show, while it has some good ideas and COULD have been good, was just BARELY mediocre. Definately nothing special, and nothing any better than what SCI-FI Channel offers up (and that isn't saying much)
AND I can't take any advice from someone who thinks the original Tim Burtan BATMAN was crap. That movie was WAY better than this piece of celluloid crap. Yes, the following 3 were terrible, but the first one was nearly spot-on.
And jesus, herc, I can't believe you support the WB Music advertisements throughout each show. WB Sucks. Boycott it with every ounce of strength in your bodies. -
Bwaahahahaha! Fucking idiots. I'll admit that I had a lot of anticipation going in. Great concept, and I love Dina Myers. Watched that stupid spy show for her alone. The lead-in was promising, though it seemed hacked to bits to me. Loved the portrayal of New Gotham-- dark and dirty, but not TOO dark and dirty. But everything went disjointed after the school scene. Myers, Sara and the guy hit by the truck were the only ones who bothered acting at all. Too many plot threads were left dangling. And the Huntress' costume sucked as much ass as her acting. And WTF with the extra 10 minutes? For one or two extra scenes of them affirming they are going to be a team? My theory is this is a prime example of too many suits mucking around with the final product. Some 24yo fuck in an Armani insisted on that insipid cheetah scream, I guarantee! There is only one redemptive element, IMO, and that's the big bad. Sara's Harley has the promise of being truly intriguing, and I see the show succeeding or failing on the development of this villain. Acting, directing, costuming and losing that fucking cheetah scream wouldn't hurt either. AD out
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...tell me you wouldn't let Ashley Scott (Huntress) beat you up...with her cleavage. Mmmmm, cleavage...
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Read an interview with the man, and he admitted his relative dislike of that project. Not one of his best (among which I would include V For Vendetta, Watchmen, a few choice Swamp Thing issues, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, and THE best, From Hell.)
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That show was really, really bad. I'm hoping that it was just the "pilot syndrome" and it will get better. Smallville's pilot wasn't all that promising but it wasn't THAT bad. That cheetah scream...ug. The acting...ug. God even the continuity from one scene to the next was pretty bad. But maybe it will get better...Smallville did.
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Oct 09, 2002 10:58:37 PM CDT
I love Long Halloween and Dark Victory. For the love of god, WB,
by dry
Those stories are far too well crafted to be butchered.
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This pilot SUCKED. The music sucked, the action was not very entertaining, Dinah's powers may have been shown well, but are a far cry from what USA managed with the Dead Zone, the dialogue was flat, and on the whole, it was plain pathetic. Herc...I love your ratings, and agree with you on almost all accounts...so I'm hoping that the Sheryilyn Fenn's pilot was far better.
p.s. Even though Moore didn't think much of a Killing Joke (I believe his words were "Nothing much happened in it, save Batgirl getting shot"), it remains my favourite comic to date. -
1 cup of charmed,a dash of batman beyond 1/2 teaspoon of buffy and a generous helping of corny dialog , a weak script ,and add that batman would give up crimefighting and leave town....um no!
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Now I'm definitely going to have to set my VCR to tape "Twilight Zone" when this comes on. I disagree with the Hollywood Reporter, though. The Huntress actress can be a bit annoying. I prefer Dinah Meyer's Barbara Gordon/Oracle instead. Nice glasses, hubba hubba!
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Man. After seeing "Birds Of Prey" I realize what a diamond in the rough "Smallville" is, considering its on WB. Don't get me wrong... "Smallville" is a very WB-ish show, but it is still entertaining and viewable by a normal person. "Birds" freaking sucks. I'd rather watch an entire season chronicling Chloe's summer in Metropolis than ever watch that piece of cheesy garbage ever again.
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Well, that was certainly interesting. Oracle was nailed, although it seems they've dropped the "information for vigilantes" aspect of her character. Huntress was given some decent, Huntressy lines, but managed to deliver them in a whining, spoiled fashion. I don't know if Helena Wayne was so annoying -- the only time I've seen HW she was screaming about not existing -- but Helena Bertinelli doesn't whine. She rages, from time to time, but doesn't whine. And she has a better costume. Let's put Helena into something warmer for the cold Gotham winter.
I think giving the teacher persona to Babs was a waste. Babs already has the whole mentor/older sister thing going on; being a teacher just piles onto that. Would've been better to make Helena a kindergarten teacher (is she old enough?), so she can show some tenderness now and then.
Dinah Lance was wasted, and annoying. Seemed to have been grafted onto the script. Two important functions could've been handled more meaningfully with Barbara. Kill, please.
Harley Quinn is very promising as a baddie. I loved the way she poured the poison into Helena's ears. Makes you wonder how much she knows about the Birds of Prey, and what she's planning for them. Or maybe she just wants the Wayne money? Or her own pet metahuman? For all we know, she's getting orders from the Phoenix himself ....
A few other thoughts:
* Re-incorporation after NML can't explain "New" Gotham; Oracle (and Huntress, fwiw) figured big in the NML, and a Cataclysm/NML arc without her would be worthless. Of course, I'm at a loss for a better explanation.
* Nice to see Batgirl in a costume resembling the traditional comics version.
* The cat sound effects were idiotic.
* Huntress's little move before saying, "I'm the Huntress," was idiotic. Never mind that she was risking a knife in the leg for like five seconds.
* After Helena offered her a drink, Babs should've said, "No thanks, I'm driving." Ha!
* I don't really mind Batman disappearing, or not knowing what happened to the Joker, or where Batman's other proteges (mentioned in the prologue) have gone. Mystery is good.
* An early review lauded the action sequences, specifically Batman's fight sequences. I now realizes that was a plant.
* Joker: Clown Prince of the Sith -
I thought the show would be cooler, or darker, or funnier... something other than this. I liked New Gotham. I never complain about CGI since I've actually done work in 3-d max and know how damn hard it is to make stuff to drop in video. Within the first five minutes of the show I was making fun of the bad acting in the show. That scene with Helena cradling her mother was just plain awful acting. And what is this valley girl crap with Dinah. I hate that Buffyness aspect of the character. But everything else in the show was stale. No humor, lame action, bad acting... this show really needs to shape up if it wants to stay alive.
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Oct 10, 2002 12:23:45 AM CDT
FunkyFlyChicken is spot on this show is just wretchedly dull so
by diskatopia
Dina Meyer gives a valiant effort (and a teasing shower scene, hubbahubba), but she cannot save this clock-watchingly dull premiere-- they even end the show with a scene at a big clock to remind us of the time we've just wasted. Action? Hell, there's always a dull moment. Seems written for a third-grade level audience. So the Huntress has a "secret identity", huh? Is that why she has the cleavage-facilitit... facilitating outfit, to be sure the badguys never bother to look at her TOTALLY VISIBLE FACE? Stuuuuupiiiid does not even start to touch the all-around ineptitude or, at best averageness.
Writing: C- , just devoid of any new ideas about anything at all,devoid of true passion, and horribly dumbed down to the point of insipidness. Directing: C , pretty blase, dull performances, dull camera placement, uninspiring overall but esp. the "fight" scenes. Cinematography: C-, because THIS IS NOT "DAWSON'S MF CREEK," the feel is completely wrong in many shots... I'll let that kind of dreamy romance novel evoking lensing slide for "Smallville" (which I don't watch anyway because I'm not into soap operas), but not here... note to camera/lighting crew: next time think "Matrix", not "The Way We Were".
Casting/Acting: C...just seems wrong or vague, other than Meyer and Abercrombie (briefly), ... Sara would have been worthy except for the brief chowdown on the scenery at the end. Special Effects: B , ok for the low-budget. Editing: C , but I'm betting they didn't have much to work with anyway, but then, that's TV, you've GOT to make gold out of the tin the director/writer/crew gives you. Music: D- , mainly sapplistic non-descript probably-WB poop... errr, pop, like most of their wretched "Dawson"clones have had...........On a final note or three--is it corporate policy at WBnet that all shots, at least day, have to look like "Dawson's friggin MF Creek", with dreamy fluffy color-free-just-washed-out-hues-yellow-sunlight ? BLAAAHHHH I say, BLAAAHHHH! Is it corporate policy to dumb everything down to the point where the show is dumber than your average Image comic? This show is barely one iota better than tripe like "Cleopatra ####" and "V.I.P.-ititus"... but seeing as how the Known Universe has an absolutely sick sense of humor, this show will last at least 3 times as many eps as phenomenal comic-book-turned-into-TVshows like "The Tick".
I'll give "BoP" maybe 2 more eps to redeem, and then no more of my eyetime, WB. Funk the new seasons' shows, I can always re-watch a tape of some of the current (small) batch of pure startlingly great genius shows, mostly on the cablenets, like the insanely purely hilarious "Aqua Teen Hunger Force". ......... -
Oct 10, 2002 12:25:41 AM CDT
Holly Bat-Crap Spinoff Batman...I mean Huntress or Oracle or Buf
by clserafini
Not good. I felt like these characters had no intensity. And what is up with just a quick search on the internet for the word "Pheonix" and Oracle has figured out the whole connection between the murders and a land deal? WHAT? Jaguar noise for the Huntress? Oh my god, did you want the audience to laugh? There is a lot of fertile ground for this show, I need to see the writers start to cultivate it. A good begining would be to have these Actors behave like crimefighting is a fun hobby and that the "Secret Lair" is not where they have thier sleep-overs!
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If psycho-lady and her clan all worked for the Joker...and the Joker knew that Barbara Gordon was Batgirl...wouldn't psycho-lady know who barbara gordon is? AND...same by the same Transitive Property of Distribution also know that Dead Catwoman's daughter is now living with former Batgirl? AND...since "Huntress" wears no mask, everyone figuring this out? Uh...what "Secret Identity" was Oracle trying to protect? WHATEVER!
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You had me until you priased the Tick. Talk about shows that were awful in every way shape and form. The only thing I liked about the live action Tick was batmanuel. I thought he was funnier than defladeur(sp?) mouse. Just admit it that these live action comic shows usually suck.
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Oh come on, admit it, the Tick was super cool. Batmanuel was the best on the show, but the show never had a chance to really hit its stride. It was all about CAMP...Make fun of itself and the genre. Tip your hats in a moment of silence for the loss of a show that had more value than BoP!
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Oct 10, 2002 12:54:32 AM CDT
Hey, Lance Turk,while the Tick wasn't a truly faithful adapt
by diskatopia
... humor can be a tough nut to crack without cracking the nutsack, because everybody is nuts in a different way :), so I respect your thoughts that it was not funny. Many folks I've talked to about it prefered the cartoon (which I have never seen). The live-action Tick just cracked me up--I can't explain it. A lot of good BatManuel stuff, maybe :) ............The funniest thing on currently, IMO, is "Aqua Teen Hunger Force" (Midnight Sunday Carton Network). So funny it hurts. Grows on you like the Blob, but in a funny way ............ For hardehaha Comics, if someone could only do shows of Flaming Carrot, Milk&Cheese, and Reid Fleming-World's Toughest Milkman, I would be in heaven. -
ok it appears we all have some big concerns in relation to birds of prey, but i think some of us need to just take a step back and look at what they are doing.
what is happening is dangerous, there are people here who may well be killing this show all too soon. take a step back about 6 years and look at a show called Buffy. based on a fairly ordinary movie which didn't do that well at the box office, and was hailed by most as a very stupid vampire flick. a TV show based on this...i mean really!
fast forward six years, and buffy is a wonderful show which has done things for the TV fantasy genre that have never been equaled. smallville. basically a fairly lame retelling of the superman mythos. however by the end of the season, it was actually good TV.
GIVE IT A CHANCE!!!!
i have been one of the people in the lead up to this series who have been very critical, but we the fans need to temper our words, lest we get a show cancelled (a la crusades) before it even has a chance to get going. As a great demonstration of how much power we have look at the recent furor with the abrams draft of the superman script. heads rolled for that one. we have more power than i think some of us even know.
Play it safe and watcha couple more shows if by the end of the first ten its still shit, then pan away, but at least give this the chance i think it deserves.
if however you are still concerend about this on check out this petition, i dunno if it'll be even remotley effective, but its worth a shot.
here is the address
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/thedarke/petition.html
remember, with great power....
the darkeness is calling you.
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Your point is well taken. We need networks to allow shows more time to mature...Sienfeld took forever to hit its stride. However, that being said, couldn't the writers have drawn from the lessons learned from the failures of past SuperHero shows and built on the successes of ones that work? This being their pilot, couldn't they have really made something that popped? Even in Buffy's season opener you saw clever writing and the actors really seemed to understand their characters. There is a difference between a show that needs and audeince to appreciate its genius (Sienfeld, Buffy etc.) and a show that did not put its best foot forward. Let's support the quality and innovation, but lets not reward sloppy products. To reward the sloppy will only guarentee us more short-lived poorly executed series...possibly the road BoP is headed down.
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I mean, how sharper than a serpent's tooth is Mia Sara with short blond hair? The whole point of Mia Sara is long black hair. It's like a tragedy. (There should only be Greeks.) Seriously, though, I enjoyed the show, but my brain was largely switched into "brainless fun" mode. I look forward to the crossover with Smallville. (They're both on the same network, and both produced by the same company. It's inevitable. So stop trying to evit it.)
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Complete waste of time. The only thing I could say during the whole show: "What the hell?". Can't wait to see the next villian: Liquid-chump. NOT! Is anyone compelled to watch this garbage?
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AND CERTAINLY DOESN'T LINE UP TO THE WHOLE NARRATION THING THEY DID. JOKER'S FIRST CRIME WAS KILLING CATWOMAN IT SAID. IT SHOWED HIM BEFORE HE BECAME THE JOKER RUNNING AWAY FROM THE SCENE, AS JACK NAPIER PERHAPS. THEN LATER ON IT SHOWED HIM AS THE JOKER BEFORE, ALREADY A VERY ESTABLISHED VILLAIN AS HE SHOULD BE. WELL THAT SHOW SUCKS. HERE'S HOPING IT GETS CANCELLED SOON.
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The first thing I noticed, is that it WASN'T 70 minutes. Was it just me? I'm going off the counter on my VCR. I taped the whole of Enterprise and Birds of Prey and it took 2 hours of tape. Did anyone else notice this? ** I'm all for giving a show a chance, I am a fan of Firefly, after all, but man, usually when I watch a show about three hot chicks that sucks like this its a porno. ** I think the Cheetah growl comes from her shoes, kind of like light up Nikes. When she lands on them they growl: "ROAR! PUMAS!" ** Hey Lynxpro, Batman didn't kill anyone in "Dark Knight". FYI. And I think the main problem for me, besides the horrible acting, sets, direction, and writing, was the fact that Batman quit. Just didn't work for me. Heres a guy so single mindedly obsessive about his vengence quest that he has devoted his whole life to it. The Quest consumed him. Even if he took a vacation, or was off planet with the JLA, he'd have guilted the whole Bat family into taking up the reins, and they'd know where he was. Gotham is Batman's. He couldn't just walk away. Anyway, P.U. stinky.
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Herc, before you announce you've seen a show, make sure you've seen the final edit. I don't know how this looked before the re-shoots, but the version which aired was simply bad. The writing was awful, no characterization, poor acting on top of bad dialogue, no sense of realism, no motivation for the villain. The costumes were horrible, particularly the Huntress'. The action was poorly choreographed. In short, NOTHING was promising. I may give it a shot next week, but I doubt since setting the VCR is a hassle and it's not worth missing West Wing over. The WB really needs to realize it does not know how to handle comic book properties. Smallville works because it is not about superheroes really. It is more like Roswell or Buffy where everything is new and strange. But put a costume on someone, and the WB screws it up. Let's hope this show tanks and so does every WB comic book related film. Maybe they'll sell the rights to someone with genuine interest in the material.
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Oct 10, 2002 2:36:21 AM CDT
PEOPLE WHO TYPE IN ALL CAPS SHOULD KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE T
by pooperman
ZOD_IS_BACK, I'M TALKING TO YOU. YOU DECIDED THAT YOUR COMPLAINT WAS SO IMPORTANT THAT IT HAD TO BE IN ALL CAPS, LIKE THIS. BUT SINCE YOU COMPLETELY WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO THE SCENE IN QUESTION WITH THE DEATH OF CATWOMAN, YOU JUST END UP MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF. THE JOKER DIDN'T KILL SELINA KYLE, BUT HAD HIS HENCHMAN DO IT. WE NEVER AT ANY TIME SAW THE FACE OF THE KILLER, AND THEY MADE A POINT OF SAYING THAT THE JOKER JUST SHOT BATGIRL HIMSELF AND HAD SOMEONE ELSE KILL CATWOMAN. Anyways, as far as the show goes, I see potential, but only if it can overcome the adjusting period. Afterall, this pilot has been tinkered with so many times that we won't be able to get a real sense of where the show is going until 5 or 6 episodes. I'll skip what was bad about this episode, since it's fairly obvious the things that need to be fixed, but there are a few things that stand out as being damn cool. The coolest being Mark Hamill as the voice of the Joker, which I admit gave me chills it was so cool. And the scene at the end with Dr. Quinzel shows me that the Big Bad will be one of the most enjoyable in Sci-fi TV history if done right, and they're off to a good start with the character of Harley Quinn. As far as the rest is concerned, there was a lot to take in from the pilot, and if the public can get past the expostion phase, the WB might have another Smallville on their hands. AND PLEASE, IF YOU ARE GOING TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS, KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
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"And the scene at the end with Dr. Quinzel shows me that the Big Bad will be one of the most enjoyable in Sci-fi TV history if done right, and they're off to a good start with the character of Harley Quinn." Poop, I have to disagree with you. First, she seems just like any other big bad ever seen. And I'm not talking about the comic book or cartoon Harley, just this one. Second, what about the Mayor of Sunnydale, or the Borg or the Smoking Man? Pyshco chick? Knows the hero's inner turmoil? been there done that.
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I agree about the all-caps thing.
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But SMALLVILLE turned around and surprised me, and sadly this show did not. Alfred was good, and Meyer made a KICK ASS Batgirl, but the rest stunk up the room I was watching it in. Couldn't they have come up with a better looking Joker? The show has all this great material to use, and it manged to be dull and boring. For example, from my understanding, Harly Quinn is a pretty lively character, and the makers of this show managed to SUCK ALL THE LIFE OUT OF HER. And the guest supervillain was pretty dull. It just wasn't fun. I hope the foul funk from the show doesn't spread to SMALLVILLE, a show that still seems to have potential. We'll see.
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I fell asleep halfway through, rewould the tape and got maybe 5 more minutes into it before I fell asleep again! I don't even sleep through Enterprise! Wow, I feel like I've freed up a whole hour every week now. Yea!
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With brighter lights and bigger boobs this could be the next V.I.P. First of all, this show was NOT 70 minutes. Complete bullshit gimmick. I taped this and clocked it at just under 65 with an extra 5 min of drivel needlessly tacked on to stretch the show past the hour. 17 min 21 sec of commercials btw. Why is it that every WB show is prepared from the same syrupy cookbook? They're even too lazy to change the font on the credits. The endless, annoying use of schmaltzy pop tunes is reason enough to loathe this program. It's mediocrity by the numbers, factory assembled tripe. It took them exactly 3 minutes to cue their first crap song. The show is insufferably boring with some of the worst acting and dialogue, it makes me wonder if Schumacher had a hand in this. Between the cloying pop music these characters engage in an endless heart to heart blathering that makes a Lifetime movie seem like The Godfather. I doubt even daytime talk shows have this much insipid soul bearing. Just how many teary eyed, confessional exchanges can these people have? Who's sponsoring this show, Kleenex, Midol? When they're not sharing a Hallmark moment they're spouting ridiculous jargon about meta-mammals/whatevers or cutesy hip lines dripping with sarcasm. It even had the inevitable, saw it from a block away like the bat signal punchline just before they vanquished the bad guy. Of course they first threw in the obligatory martial arts with the tiresome techno soundtrack. They missed the target in so many ways. Why is Huntress/Helena/Snotty Bitch dressed in that shitty getup? At least Black Scorpion looked Hot. This Helena, whose name I couldn't hear mentioned enough btw, looks like a ragged out over-aged goth who got drunk and splurged at a flea market. Of course if you're going to play vigilante make sure to show plenty of cleavage and don't forget the red lipstick. You never know when you'll come face to face with a violent criminal who's interested in bad fashion. And don't bother to conceal your face. It's obvious the cops in New Gotham are too stupid to remember a description or too lazy to issue an APB. If you plan on sneaking around dark places at night make sure to wear brightly lit neon green goggles with a friggin' laser beam shooting out of your head. Its amazing how someone can get knocked unconscious or fall asleep and wake up looking like they stepped out of a Maybeline ad. Not one hint of drool or dry lips. They sure are fresh and perky in that nauseating WB way. I read somewhere that Mia Sara was in this show but after tonight it's all too obvious to me that an alien imposter has assumed the identity of Mia Sara. Perhaps one day the real Mia will be found. Maybe next week the birds of prey will use the internet to miraculously solve this mystery. Computers sure are convenient in that way.
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Oct 10, 2002 8:05:31 AM CDT
I'm giving this another week before I officially declare whe
by rick mccallum
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What... did they hire a 6th grade creative writing class to write this? What a HUGE piece of junk. This show was horrible. I had taped it and I found myself fast forwarding through most of it. The dialouge and plot were JUST STUPID!!!!!... bad enough to begin with but when combined with some of the worst acting I've seen this side of a grammer school play. Batman (or at least his world) should be serious, atmospheric, and dark. This didn't even come close. It was just stupid. I don't get comparing this to Buffy. I'm not that big a Buffy fan but at least that show has somewhat believable characters with believable motivation. This just seemed like we were supposed to give a crap cause the actresses (and I do use that term loosely) we're attractive. I'm getting tired of watching shows where it's obvious that looks played more into casting than any real acting talent. I'm getting even more tired of the WB treating comic properties like garbage. Addmittedly there's garbage in a lot of the comics medium on its own (as any medium) ... but if someone had the vision to find a comic of quality and then the guts to make a show that could be treated with the sophistication and dramatic emphasis of a show like "The Sopranos" I'd think it make a lot of people happy. It's definatly not this. I'll never watch this show again. (apologize for spelling errors)
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It was ok enough to make it through watching the whole chunk oh garbage. I'll give it another week. I would like to like this show but..... it kinda sucked.
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In England most show's seasons are 6 episodes long. You naysayers give it 6 episodes to get you into the show. After that just don't watch it and let those of us who liked it watch it. I am a comic book fan, I to wish they would stay closer to the comic. But they are not going to. That's it. That way, someone like my fiancee who doesn't read comics can sit and watch it. Course me jabbering on during the show pointing out the differences between the comic and the show doesn't make her to happy. Give it 6 episodes. It will take longer to get in a groove then just two episodes.
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What can I say? I'm a sucker for superhero drama. =) And being on a Wednesday, this is a show I'll actually get to watch!
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Alfred was the only character I gave a shit about, and he was only on for about 2 mins!
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Very Dissapointing. What was up with the Music Video cutscenes and the cat growl noise?
This show had a lot of potential, but DID NOT DELIVER. -
It felt like a Saturday morning cartoon!
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It had too much ground to cover. More character development and less frantic exposition would be nice.
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I thought the show was awesome, eventhough I dozed through parts of it. Either I was too tired, or it didn't hit all cylinders with me. I would like to have it stay with us for a while as long as it doesn't have green rock mutated freak of the week every week. We need a recurrent Big Bad that we can look forward to every now and then. Other than that it was a very cool show.... I give it 4 1/2 out of 5 Batarangs!
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I thought it was totally awesome how Helena never said she wouldn't kill. That is SOOO what we need, a hero that has no problems killing if there is no other option..... Fettastic has it right!... Keep on Keepin' on!!!!
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I'm familiar with the Oracle character from DC. Also, a bit familiar with The Huntress. I watch and enjoy Buffy. And Angel and even Smallville. This show was bad. I 'liked' Dinah Meyer's Barbara Gordon. But the show itself was Mutant-X bad. And that's unfortunate. At one point the most I was hoping for was a Nightwing introduction and eventually an 'Angel-esque' spin off series. (Thank god that's not going to happen in the hands of these fuck heads). Do you know why they won't make a Superman TV show? Or Batman for that matter? It's because WB executives are a bunch of fucking incompetents. If I were given the opportunity, I could easily make a marketable comic book to TV adaption. Wanna know how? STOP REINVENTING FUCKING CHARACTERS!!!!!!!! Stop trying to imagine Gotham WITHOUT Batman!! Catwoman IS NOT a METAHUMAN!!! JESUS CHRIST!!!! The Huntress doesn't have to be a FUCKING METAHUMAN!!!! How do I make my fonts bigger to emphasize the point? How can anyone fuck up Harley Quinn SO BADLY?! For those TBers that chant the relax, take it easy, it's just a show mantra. Yes. You're right. It's just a show. Well, this is the only place I can go to rant my opinion, so that's why I'm here. And I know I'm not alone when I say, "I want a faithful comic book to TV adaptation." NOW. It's very simple. If it's Batman. He's the WORLD'S SMARTEST DETECTIVE! He's faithful to the cause. He never kills. He would know if he had children. (Yes, he knew about Talia's child.)Batgirl was NOT his only pupil. Where's Robin? Where's NIGHTWING? These are interesting characters! C'Mon, Who's in charge? Give me a shot. I can DO IT!
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Oct 10, 2002 10:20:35 AM CDT
birds of POOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by larry_dallas
aaaaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!! I hate the WB; I really friggin' hate them. A bigger collection of fuck-ups I've never encountered. BOP is not in the same familiarity zone as SUPERMAN or BATMAN; you'd think they'd want to at least appeal to the fanboy audience, to garuntee a small, cultlike following....BUT NO!!! Instead we get a 2nd rate DAWSON'S meets SMALLVILLE with truely horrendous acting and laughable, WB approved teen pop. As a comic geek, I was of course annoyed with the continuity issues the show exibited, but to put it into perspective, I watched it with someone who had no previous knowledge of the BOP history and he thought the show sucked. I will admit I was impressed with the breif glimpses of Batman and Myer in the REAL Batgirl costume, hell, even the so-so Joker with Mark Hamill's brilliant voice work was kinda cool......but the rest was just......eeeeccchhhhhh......and who thought Jor-El would show up to talk Helena outta killing herself????? It's the 70s/80s reversed......DC has the underwhelming TV shows and MARVEL has the kick ass movies.....u suck WB......
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Oct 10, 2002 10:21:37 AM CDT
I had to turn it off after Helena's "I loved my mother speec
by the g-man
"My mother was funny and dangerous...etc." I'm sorry, but that was "a speech," not what a real person would say and it was the sort of dialogue even the biggest hack comic writer would be ashamed of. I had been squirming uncomfortably through the beginning of the show but that dialogue was it. I HAD to turn it off. Man, it was terrible.
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Not great, but there's some potential there. I thought the Huntress was pretty good actually, save the ridiculous "GROWL!". Sounded like the return from commercial sound effects in cartoons. "Birds of Prey will return in a moment! ROWR!!" Plus the blonde girl looks like she got lost and wandered over from the Dawson's Creek set. I don't know what they're going to give her to do each episode. "Oh, I had a dream again..." Dina Meyer is fine though. (Phil Hartman voice) "Somebody say....Sassy?!" Huntress and Oracle can act a bit, so the show will hinge on the writing. Could've done a little bit more with the pilot though, I give it a B-.
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I really wanted this show to be good but man was that bad. The scenes with Batman just looked silly. They should have used some slow motion or something when Batman jumped onto the joker but instead it just looked like a guy in a rented batman costume. I will be avoiding this show from now on. Obviously they made this show on a tiny budget and it shows. This premise has promise but they screwed it up. I'm sure they'll use this failure as an excuse that people aren't interested in Superhero shows and films. Morons.
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Oct 10, 2002 10:36:08 AM CDT
That Joker wig was really convincing - or - Crizzappy. Oh, wait
by spydahman
This show is as retarded as I figured t would be. The only reason I whatched it at all is 'cause a friend of mine worked on it, thus I was on-line instant messaging him in LA while it was on so we could both make fun of it. The show didn't actually get finished till yesterday - the same day it aired - and his experience has made my friend seriously consider getting out of television.
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This has got to be the worst piece of crap on tv right now. I wanted to slit my throat after watching. I can't believe the WB executives green lighted this mess. Were Dinah and Ashley giving hand jobs for this? The cat noises alone took it down to a 1 star rating. What the hell was wrong with the Joker? Was that Justin Guarini, whatever, from American Idol? Herc, there is no way they could have retooled this out of 31/2 star pilot. I've seen porn acted better and with better music. Where did that ending come from? I feel violated. Sorry to tell you holidill but BOP will not last another week unless Ashley Scott and Dinah Meyer put on thongs and show lots of T & A in every scene. And even then it might be better to see Leo MCGarity in a thong just to see better acting.
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What was I thinking? What is the WB thinking? If they wanted to rip off Mutant X because all of the other Marvel inspired moves are kickning the crap out of any thing they do, they could/should have come up with something better than this. I mean really, the Huntress growls and her eyes change - they do it so much better on Mutant X and each of the mutants there is far better than any of the three here (why did they play a Charmed commercial that was obviously poking fun at this series - during this series premiere?). The cast was terrible, I barely recognized Mia Sara, and once again I was teased with what could have been good (Batman and Batgirl - Dinah looked much better as Batgirl and seemed far more interesting than Oracle) and wound up with more boring fare from the WB (Which Blows!)
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Herc is right - all of the Batman movies have sucked, although Burton's were better than Schumacher's... Here's a character rich in mythos, character development and visuals - yet everything is crappy from the posters (why not get a great comic artist to do the poster?) to the execution... First off, Gotham is a neo-Nazi architect's wet dream - yeah, fine, I don't mind a few nods to Bill Finger, but the more outlandish the city is, the more unbelievable everything that follows - you don't need to have an over-the-top city to justify a costumed crimefighter - we go in believing in the concept anyway... Make the city real, gritty, dangerous - filled with scum of the ordinary and costumed variety - this is the city Batman has sworn to protect - not something that was designed by fugitives from the Third Reich. The suit - who came up with rubber? Bats would be fainting from heat exhaustion within minutes - why not get an actor who is athletic and muscular, and go for fabrics of a spandex variety? Batman is an acrobat of the highest order, not just someone who can throw a punch - give him a cool cape (augmented by CGI for motion) and you have a dramatic, highly visual character... The detective - this is the world's greatest detective? Jebus, give him some real mysteries with terrifying consequences if he doesn't solve them... The Batmobile - this is supposed to be a vehicle that scares the shit out of criminals when it roars down the street - not some piece of junk tricked out like a funhouse that looks like it couldn't do 5 mph - tone it down, prop guys - less is more - make it sleek, dark and powerful - and make it fast for Christ's sake! And - don't let it get blown up every movie - God, how great can it be if every freakin' criminal has totalled one? The villains - Batman has one of the best and most widely know rogue's gallery in comics - why try to fit so many into one movie - this ain't the 60's TV show - pick one villain and make them BAD - EVIL - a true challenge for Batman - they should be someone we thank God isn't actually out there - the Joker is no joke - he's a psychotic - the evil flip side to Bats... Two-Face - so nuts a coin toss determines his actions... etc etc etc - and Bane is not a goofy chauffeur - he's the guy who broke Batman's freakin' spine... Commissioner Gordon - friend of Batman's - his daughter is Batgirl... Robin - anyone but Chris O'Donnell - hell, leave Robin, Batgirl and Ace the Bathound out of it - Bats and Alfred are enough... Alfred - Michael Gough is the one thing they got right... why is it so hard to make a Batman movie that is thrilling, gripping, mature and works on a level of action and character development? Something both kids and adults would enjoy? All of the elements are there - why does WB never trust their property as is? Batman has been around since before most of us were born - obviously something works - get a good director, but please God get a good WRITER - someone who respects the material and really wants to make it shine - go back to square one - we don't mind - start the whole franchise over again - use one super villain, make Batman smart and agile and driven - fill it with wit and intelligence and great action - you'll be breaking all kinds of records, WB - HAVE FAITH IN YOUR MATERIAL! (Okay, I have to go lie down, now...)
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Uneven is the best I can say. However, as not a follower of the comics and have not seen the last two Batman movies, but have followed the production of the show since it was announced in late winter, it reflects network interference. They had a crap load of elucidation to go through, which should
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This is part of the exact reason why I gave up reading DC back after "The Death of Superman" and the Bane/Broken Bat/Bat stand-in mess. The Crisis may have attempted to fix a mess of several universes, but there are still too many references to this Flash, or that Batman, or if Superboy existed and knew Lex, or if Bats did it with Catwoman? or what ever. This show is a mess and is built from bits and pieces of different storylines/universes and was slapped together just to exploit the new superhero craze. I too desperately want more super hero TV and movies but I want intelligent, well scripted and thought out storylines, like we have gotten from Marvel since Blade, not Batman & Robin and definitely not Birds of Prey (Bats are mammals, not birds!). I mean really: a secret lair in the city's tallest building, behind a see through clock, that if I were looking in would see high tech computer equipment and a bad acting babe, in a wannabe costume, jumping out of the window in bad CGI? High tech flourescent day glo glasses transmitting 3d images to a wheelchair bound leader who directs the wearer by pointing and saying "go their"? Did I miss seing a camera pointed at her and showing her on a screen in the wearers glasses? who is kidding who? A thinly disguised Harly Quinn and Scarecrow? Meta Humans?Batman leaving Gotham because his lover died and protege was crippled? Give me a break! It's things like that that made him Batman! if anything make him older and bitter ala Dark Knight Returns, but gone? This show just sucked on so many levels!
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............hear FUCKIN' hear!!! The sad thing is, while all of the options u laid out are valid, true, wanted and NEEDED by the fans, the WB could GIVE A SHIT!!!! I agree that all 4 BATMAN movies are flawed (or in the case of BATMAN and ROBIN, wretched), but at least they actually GAVE Burton free reign to bring a certain vision to the first 2......now, whether that vision was valid or not is up to debate, but at least he didn't churn out cookie cutter crap like BOP.....The WB is in it for the buck and no, I'm not naive', I realize all studio's are in it for the buck, but you'd think after the success of SPIDER-MAN (flawed, yes, but still treated with respect) the WB would get it.....guess not.......assholes....
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Birds of Prey? I saw it last night.
These girls can't act. Point blank. The "I'm the Huntress, and you're the prey" line fell flat-er than the pseudo-"Black Canary"'s tits.
The only bright spots on this show are Alfred, using Mark Hamill's voice as the Joker, and the inclusion of Harley Quinn.
I'm sort of a Batman fanatic, but this DOES NOT DO JUSTICE TO THE BATMAN MYTHOS. Joel Schumacher might as well be the producer.
It'll be dead by the end of the year, because nobody wants to see Batman butchered anymore. (Batman disappeared, my left nut.) -
Her name is Meyer, not Myers! Her brother is not an evil killer who comes back every October. (OK, I'm better now).
I've got to say, I thought this "improved" premiere episode was a notch below the original one with Sherilyn Fenn (Mia, the years have not been kind). The differences were small (save Fenn's absence), but noticeable. Mia Sara looked like she might still have a pretty hot figure under those suits, but the hair was bad, and her face looked haggard. Meyer in the Batsuit was the best part of the show, but I can't see how they can keep working in the flashbacks without it getting tired. (which reminds me, every time I watch Dead Zone, it makes me wish they'd do a Tv movie remake of the cheesy 60's Batman series, just so Nicole DeBoer could step in for yvonne Craig as BatGirl). I liked the fact that Helena got off on the fighting, instead of whining about "responsibility".
I'm hoping the constant "Meta-human" references dwindle into nothingness along with the Cheetah growl. Actually, I think the best way to enjoy this series might be to invent a "BofP drinking Game":
1. Someone references Metahumans - Take a Drink.
2. the cheetah growls - Take a drink.
3. Dinah has a vision - Take a drink.
4. Batgirl costume flashback - Do a Shot.
5. someone says "Batman" - Take a drink.
etc., etc.
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DC comics is dying. Their only hope now are more good animated series' and (slim, Hail Mary chance here) a Wonder Woman movie.
Brett Ratner and J.J. Abrams could just as easily destroy Superman movies for all time as they could make them fresh. I'll reserve judgement on that until I see and hear more.
Warners lacks what Marvel has found: YOUNG people who actually KNOW and RESPECT or LOVE THE COMICS.
Spiderman isnt about a web-slinging hero, its about a kid with a lot of added responsibilities.
Superman is about a Kansas farm boy who can do more than any man on earth, and believes that he can save the world.
Batman is about a man one step shy from psychopathy. He's driven, and determined, to wrack his mind, body and spirit to fight a war that doesnt end. And nothing will stand in his way.
Nobody at Warners cares about that though. They want cash. Now. When the reality is, we want story and characters. For that, we'll cough up the cash. And since I know studio folks sometimes come to this site (Hail Mary chance they're reading mine)I hope someone from Warners is reading this. -
Being drunk would be the only reason to watch this show. And bad would become good (externally). I'm inviting friends over next week to watch it with their favorite poison.
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I didn't even finish watching it. If The Oracle is so concerned about maintaining secrecy in what her and the Huntress do, how come the Huntress doesn't wear a frickin' mask? The detective knows what she looks like now, if he sees her working the bar, he'll know automatically who she is! GEEZ even Clark Kent had glasses to disguise himself. And what was up with that lame looking actor who played the Joker? No wonder they kept him to obscure shots, looks like a gangly teenager they pulled off the street! Also since when was the Huntress a "meta-human". I don't know much about her character in the comics, but logic dictates that if a normal human male (Batman) mated with a normal human femal (Catwoman), both who did not have innate powers, how does their offspring morph cat eyes or superhumanly jumps and climbs walls? And what was up with that jaguar scream when Huntress was sneaking around the bad guys mansion? What is this, MANIMAL??? (Remember that show from the 80's???) *** Geez WB sucks, they keep f*cking up the DC franchise, I'm glad I'm not a DC fanboy and I pity those who are.
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Okay... I know it was just the first episode, but I was not impressed by it at all. I liked the actress who plays Barbara gordon, but that's about it. After all of the hype about the premier episode, I expected great things. Maybe it will improve as time goes on. I'll give it my standard 5 episode trial period.
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This is the show I'm waiting for.
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I really wanted to like this show, the extended trailer for it looked really good. Alas after watching the pilot I think it should be called Te Charmed Birds of Dawsons Creek. Writing, acting, fight scenes, special fx, humour all were very disappointing. Only person who didnt embarass themself was Dina, who did the best with what she had to work with. What the hell happened to Mia Sara? She looks terrible and about 57 years old. Fenn sounded like a right and sexy choice for Harley, I wonder why the change occured. DC sucks FOREVER!
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Seriously, none of us want to be left without good comic-con-TV shows, but this one really was bad. Not bad in the "We need to grow as a show..." bad, but bad as in "Do you think the cheetah growl sounds cool?" kinda bad. I am not "Joe Comic Reder," but I have seen some very innovative ideas in "Dark Knight Returns" and "The Killing Joke" where underlying the comic was a very cool exploration of characters. We really see none of that here. It was as if the writers were pressured to treat these characters as if they were in Season 3 already. They are not taking the time to tell the STORY! That is what most of us are complaining about...Tell us a great story. Take your time. Let us give a crap about these characters. We don't need everything resolved in the pilot. Or if you are going to try to, then spend 2 or 4 hours doing it. Make it an event. Instead, there was too much that just felt familiar about this show and very little that felt new, fresh or edgy. Come-on Fettastic, you have to admit you want quality as well. You must have the same issues everyone else has. Don't let your desire for more of this genre' on TV lower your standards to swallow anything the networks try to spoonfeed you. Let's all push for more quality!
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Sweet Christ, what a complete, shear unadulterated piece of crap. What the hell is going on over at Warners with the Batman franchise? There was absolutely nothing original, cool, or redeemable about that show at all. It was actually hard to sit through, and what's the deal with Mia sara? Oh my God, someone stop the insanity...Hard to believe that's the same girl that played Lilly and Sloane Petersen...
The director should be embarassed, as well as everyone involved. How the hell can you screw up super heroines running around in the dark, kicking villainous rectum, or let alone, anything that has to do with the darkest, most interesting superhero of all time? Warners needs a changing of the guard. For God's sake, get some people in there who know what they're doing...Stop the insanity. -
I liked it, the problem with the batman movie/show/comics is that batman has to be the lamest most bland hollow character ever created. he has no emontion and only seeks revenge for what happened in is childhood.. he should be in Archem along with the rest of the freaks he created.
I liked this show because the characters have emotions out side of "me do good, me super hero". Yes, it was cheesy in parts, and yes, some of the effects and fight scenes were weak, but not everything is going to be perfect for you little geeks. jesus. what else is on wed. nights? enterprize? come on. thats just as week as Birds of Prey- its just been on longer.
What would you rather have? a cheesy Comic book show, or no show at all? just be happy that WB isn't filling the hour with some crappy family drama or the 100th new medical show this season.
we haven't seen a action based and costum filled DC-based show on TV since Adam West. give it a break! damnit! all you geeks like do it is complain. its really said.
even when good stuff DOES come out, you nitpick it do death like vulures. (hehe Birds of Prey reference! ha! in your FACE! *waves finger*)
I liked it, i'll watch it and then enterprise (the joys of having DishNetwork and 5 WB/UPN stations across the US to choose from)
Later! -
did Mia Sara turn into Anne Heche or is that my brain messin wit my head
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Dina Meyer was well-scripted and well-acted. Mia Sara also did well with what little time she had. It's a shame that the parts inbetween were an utter travesty. I'll continue to watch, as I did with Smallville, if for nothing other than to support the live action superhero genre I enjoy so much. However, and again, just like Smallville, I'm out after 5 episodes if it doesn't look like it will improve. It's a shame, because I was *really* looking forward to liking this show, planted pop songs and all.
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not surprised this sucks, but, at least Warner Hoes have done a bang up job with the animated shows. i always thought the Justice League sucked until i saw the animated show, which is fantastic. same thing with Superman. Batman was always pretty cool...
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Ha to the 10th power. Bionic, this show will not last 5 episodes. Fettastic, your so delusional it's sad. I'm not a fanboy, I could care less about the comics. I would like to see a show where the actors can actually act. I would like a realistic hero drama that doesn't rip off the song list of Dawson's Creek. Is it too much to ask for a plot that is better than Pokemon Jodo League? This is just a poorly written show. Sorry.
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It was like that Lifetime channel trying to do Batman.
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Last night I watched Birds of Prey with some friends...here is how the average conversation went. I must have had to repeat this at least 10 times to various people, and some still didn't understand what was going on. "Me: Catwoman has superpowers in this version of Batman. M. Doe: Huh? I thought she was a thief. Me: She is, but she's different in the show. M. Doe: Uh, Who is that girl? Me: Huntress, Batman and Catwoman's daughter. M. Doe: huh? Me: screw this shit, screw the WB. Screw this shitty show." I wanted a Bruce Wayne show, which would resemble McGuyver or something. Something not campy. Frank Miller was able to un-campify Batman, but WB seems to keep tryin to bring back the big POW! and WHAM! letters. Give it up WB, everything has a time and Era, and Batman should not be camp anymore. Make something good. BUt I guess the WB likes to hire shitty actors who're pretty and will work for pennies. Excellent bussiness practices WB, make your customers feel violated. Make it so we know all WB stuff is crap, and the good stuff gets canceled quickly because...its the WB.
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I had some reservations too, but this is more decent than I thought. It's the pilot, this is not going to be the high point of the show. I wish they had just shown the battle with the Joker and then done a flash forward a few years instead of the narration. There are possibilities galore in this series. For instance, no one said that the Joker was killed, with any luck he's still hanging around. The lightning from his hand? Obviously it's a suped up joy buzzer like Blade said(at least someone knows whats up), i've seen him use that before. Should the Joker come back they need to give him gloves and bigger red lips. I kind of wish Huntress had a mask, but it's not a big issue. Also the guy that killed Catwoman was just a Joker henchman. Obvioulsy you weren't paying attention or you stopped watching after a little while and felt that you could just go online and eviscerate this thing without having watched the entire episode. GIVE THIS SHOW A CHANCE DAMMIT!! P.S. lose the Michelle Branch music, it takes away from the show
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You sorry S.O.B. If you want to be a YES MAN and accept any lame warmed over crap served to you, then that's your business. Don't yell at the rest of us. I actually wanted to see a good show. I have two issue regarding the success of the show. One, if it stays on, it will stay on because of hormonal 13 year olds and the WB will feed us more crap like this. Two, if it fails in three episodes, which is likely (see Push Nevada), the WB will assume that costume hero shows don't work. Number two would definitely be sad because with better writers and creative freedom, this could have been a good series. I have to agree with the poster who said that you are accepting less. And Herc had the nerve to mention BOP in the same breath as Buffy. Ha.
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utter cack. aside from some nice effects, this thing was an embarrasment from start to finish - and almost certainly nailed the lid on the coffin that is the batman franchise once and for all. about 5 episodes of plot crammed into an hour, ham-fisted dialogue, that fucking awful manimal-esque growl, more plot holes than a ton of swiss-cheese, abysmal soundtrack...ugh...and those fucking skewed camera angles straight from the 60's batman.
schumacher would have been proud of this steaming dump.
this kind of thing just enforces the general publics' view of comic-themed shows being geared towards brain-dead kids...
nightmare.
elcapitan -
...I didn't much care for Killing Joke. I felt a bit vindicated for that potentially heretical attitude when I later read that Moore himself wasn't too high on that story. I mean, he's right -- all it really accomplished was getting Batgirl paralyzed, and for no really good reason other than to maim a perfectly good character -- for shock value, I suppose. Then again, DC doesn't seem to mind offing or abusing female characters in a high-profile way for sales or ratings. Remember Supergirl getting sacrificed for the almighty buck in "Crisis"? Sure, a *version* of Supergirl returned, but it wasn't the original by any stretch. It just bugs me that Superman can get "killed," but we all know he's coming back better than ever post-mortem -- yet when Barbara Gordon gets shot/crippled or Supergirl gets fried, they're staying paralyzed/dead and that's just that. (Notice they didn't mind adding the "bonus" of a meta-human Catwoman getting gutted in the pilot; it obviously doesn't pay to be a meta-female in this universe.) Maybe Batgirl remaining crippled-yet-productive is supposed to be politically correct and "inspirational" to a certain segment of society, but c'mon, with the magic of meta-humanism and super-technology happening all over the DC Universe, they can't figure out a way to reverse some spinal nerve damage? Hell, we're halfway there in our non-super-powered world via stem cell research, and Chris Reeve himself is showing signs of significant improvement solely via an arduous regimine of physical therapy. Will DC (and thus the show, which incidentally takes place in the future) account for these developments and advancements in medical science as they happen in our world? And even if for whatever arbitrary reason they won't fix her spine in this super-verse, with all the kewl gadgets and super-tech floating around, can't someone even come up with cyber-legs like in MANTIS (sorry to dredge up that painful memory) or Dark Angel (ditto)? I just don't buy keeping a character "handi-capable" for appearance or "sensitivity" reasons when to do so conflicts with the "rules" you've established to in your own speculative reality. Frankly, the prospect of Dina Meyer-as-Batgirl kicking ass in skintight black leather seems a lot more interesting than what we're getting here. She sure looks a lot better in her latex duds than those ridiculous pajamas they've got Huntress wearing. Ultimately, I guess it's easier to get powers like super-strength and flight in DC-land than it is to get cured of what will be a fairly pedestrian injury a decade or two from now.
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The comments in the talkback about the mediocrity of the dialogue and drama are spot-on. How, pray tell, does somebody get to do such a terrible job on a major motion picture like "Tomb Raider," then get drafted to do a similarly weak job developing and writing a high-profile television show, even if it is for the WB? Why was it so easy for a superhuman Selena Kyle to get offed by some hench-dude with a switchblade? Are you *kidding* me?!? If she can duke it out with Bats, then it stands to reason that a souped-up Catwoman would have torn his head off! How can Huntress have the strength to leap several stories up, or land after jumping from a great distance without any injury (requiring considerable tissue integrity to avoid splattering like a watermelon from her own weight and velocity), yet be vulnerable to a fricking knife? If Huntress isn't at a minimum bulletproof (which she obviously isn't, same as dear-departed Mom, but she ought to be), why doesn't she invest in a kevlar/latex tight-yet-super-sexy suit like Batgirl wore that can offer protection? Something like that would be a helluva lot more interesting than that Stevie Knicks-knockoff gown they've stuck her in. I like cleavage as much as the next guy, but this one strains common sense to a major degree. If Huntress has fewer compunctions about the taking of human life than her companion, then why doesn't she pack some kind of helpful weaponry -- if not a gun, how about some big, shiny blades? For that matter, since she's basically confined to hand-to-hand combat, if we're not talking about lethal weapons, why not give her some cool telescoping batons like Lucy Liu had in the admittedly-awful Ecks vs. Severs? (Lucy looked great kicking ass, though.) I didn't mind the psychic girl as much as some folks around here -- at least she wasn't the cliched "weird, distracted, off-kilter" telepath we seem to get a lot of (Firefly, anybody?). Was it a bit contrived to have Psychic Girl be at the bus station at the very moment the guy freaks out about rats and gets himself killed, or am I supposed to write that off as related to her psychic-ness or something? Oh, and the whiny chick-rock at the end was the kind of cookie-cutter crap that makes your teeth grind -- stop the insanity!
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Are you being serious? Really, I can't tell. Please tell me that its all sarcasm. Don't get me wrong. I think BoP is a crappy comic, so I don't care about continuity. I was horrified with the acting, and dialogue. Horrified. My little sister and her friends have made better shows with our old video camera. Awful, so awful it was painful. My friend and I spent the show twisting in pain at all the horrendous dialogue. Amazing. Even more amazing is I completely agree with Rude+Kaiser for once. This show is an insane travesty, a crime against humanity. Its apparently made for retards and mouth breathers to enjoy. I don't see any potential. And unfortuantly when this show goes down in flames, it won't take WB with it, but it will most likely kill Superhero TV shows for awhile. Ugh, I felt dirty after watching this. So bad. And its not the premise, I can understand how someone could defend this, but the acting, the writing, even the sets were SO bad. I am in awe. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE BATTLEFIELD EARTH OF TELEVISION!
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"There's no satisfying these punks, let's pull the plug and NEVER attempt this again.". Yes, I do hope WB does just that. Why? A) this horrible, horrible abomination of a show with its horrible acting and god awful writing would be gone, never to leave its visual skid mark across my TV ever again. B) We could all rest easy knowing that WB and the mongoloids that work there have ceased from trying something like this ever again. They just don't have the talent for it. And trust me Fett, I wouldn't piss on this show if it was on fire.
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Spice-Orange wrote---"Just be happy that WB isn't filling the hour with some crappy family drama or the 100th new medical show this season. we haven't seen a action based and costum filled DC-based show on TV since Adam West."---- Spice-O, you forgot "The Flash", but that's okay, everyone has ;) ... On other notes: hey folks, stop being so harsh on Mia Sara's looks-- 1)the washed out colors or worse, fluorescents, of the scenes she's in don't bring out her remaining beauty, 2)hair grows back so we can hope that she realizes this and loses the DeGeneres-cut, and 3)people age, she is not and could not remain the young hottie she was in "Legend"... time is not on anyone's side. You older fanboys know you wouldn't complain if they put her in a steamy shower scene :) Acting-wise, it's true she scarfed the scenery a bit at the end, but that could be the director's fault, or worse (and A sign of how bad it will get), WBnet suits' fault.
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This is a little off topic from the very flawed BOP (that I 'prey' gets better in the coming weeks)...>>>>>>>>>>I think the Batman-as-psychopath is only one rendering of the character. And not necessarily the best. I'm not saying it's not a legitimate one, but it's not the only one. Batman has also been a great hero in the most traditional way. He uses fear to intimidate the evil individuals who he is dedicated himself to stopping. He also has a clear understanding of his desire to protect the innocent. The fact that he doesn't kill is not known by the evildoers he hunts. We know it because we are let inside his head by the writers. To the criminals (and probably the average joe) he is a fearsome urband legend come to life and he uses this psychologically to achieve his ends. But he doesn't have to be a psychopath. In fact, his treatment and understanding of his greatest enemies shows a man of great compassion. The Bat is a tool in the hands of a great hero. OK.. enough useless blather.
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Oct 10, 2002 3:14:27 PM CDT
At least Birds of Prey is tied to Batman; Smallville is tied to
by arcturus
So please, can the cynicism regarding Birds of Prey. Half of you criticizing it have not one iota what it takes to put a show onscreen, and the other half are too lazy and attached to their couches watching Smallville or something to put their ideas in motion anyway.
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Yes, some of his long-time enemies have used the fact that he won't kill against him. I meant it wouldn't be generally known by the run of the mill scum of the earth that he would be hunting on a nightly basis.
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I don't see how any self respecting Batman fan can call this peice of shit a good show. The WB doesn't have a fucking clue what to do with any decent DC franchises.
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God - can you get high off of being upset over nothing - is that the attraction? The show was OK - no more, no less. Huntress was hotter than hot, but really needs some crash course acting lessons. Barbara Gordon was better, but didn't have that much to work with. Blondie was too generic. I've seen her on 1000 other shows sans the second sight. Way too much exposition and way too little action. Yes, Mia Sara *is* long dark hair. I really hope the short blonde do is *her* disguise. ON THE OTHER HAND... I understand that this was a pilot. Once the cast, writers and production people need to get more comfortable with their jobs and the characters, it should get better. This is a genre show that needs both the comic books fans and the other 99.3% of the population who never heard of BoP before to watch. Exposition sucks, but not everyone is going to read up on the comic like I did prior to the premiere - so it's also necessary in a one hour genre pilot. (However - see Farscape's "Premiere" if you wnat to see it done really well.) There are worse things to do than spend 60 minutes watching attractive women fight bad guys, but this show will tank fast if that is all they ever give us. I'm willing to watch for a few more weeks in hopes of some tweaking and tightening. The characters are interesting, the potential for some genre fun is there and Ashley Scott's *hot* points make up for her weak acting - for now. As long as they don't put it on against 'Buffy', they've got me until Christmas. Oh - and yeah - lose the cat growl and cat's eye morph. Very cheesy and we get it - she's a meta-human - please move on.
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Go back and read it again, pal. Batman breaks the Jokers neck, but leaves him alive and crippled. The Joker, as his last "fuck you" to Batman wrenchs his head around, completeing the job, killing himself and making it look like Batman did it, so that the cops add Murder 1 to their list of charges. Batman has no problem hurtng, maiming, and scarring bad guys, but he doesn't kill. Better luck next time, kid.
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Gordon cheats on his wife, kind of, in Year One, NOT Dark Knight. Just letting you know.
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Well now.... This show, and nearly simultaeously, and ep of the otherwise fabulous "Simpson's" have both commited the alltime science blunder. ATTENTION WRITERS! Its a po-science MYTH that people only use 10% of their brains. ITS NOT TRUE!!!! STOP writing that and perpetuating this STUPID MYTH!!! In BOP... they said 5%... even worse. Now, I will never watch the show... To build a fantasy story... you must start with facts that help your audience suspend disbelief. Not use a bogus disproved premise. If they say this in a POTTER movie about the Muggles next... I'll fantasize about going postal.
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Thats the weirdest fucking pet peeve I've ever heard
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"Yes man"? Don't throw all of this college student majoring in political science rhetoric at me. I'm suprised you didn't call me an automaton. I see promise in this show, the show I saw last night could definitely use some spit and polish. It is not the sign of the apocalypse everyone is making it out to be. This could be "Buffy", the set-up at the end leaves a good storyline open. Just let it find it's niche, you can't just watch one episode and write it off. If you do then you obviously walked into this thing looking for the bad. Wait until after the next episode, if it still sucks well then it sucks.
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This was a pilot of a network TV show for heaven's sake! You were expecting Batman: The Movie?!
I agree that Ashley Scott needs some acting lessons, but she's no better or worse than 90 percent of the actresses in prime time, and I thought Dina Myer was quite good as Barbara Gordon.
Not as good as the Smallville pilot, but WAY more interesting than the last three Batman movies...I give it a C+
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That's all it was. I hope this one gets axed soon. STUPID!
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"Why was it so easy for a superhuman Selena Kyle to get offed by some hench-dude with a switchblade?"___ because knifes are SHARP. who gives a fuck if you can fight, run fast, jump around like a cat, if you don't see it comming, your going to get killed. Catwoman isn't fucking superman. METAHUMAN can be all sorts of different mutantions, Kyle got cat abilities. now last time i checked, when i went to my local pet shealter and stabbed 50 fluffy kittens, they all died horrible bloody deaths... why? BECAUSE THEY ARE FUCKING CATS!!!
"How can Huntress have the strength to leap several stories up, or land after jumping from a great distance without any injury"___ SHIT have you read a comic book? she has superpowers. there was a study a while back and they gathered all the cases of house cats falling out of apartment windows and they found out that cats are more likely to survive a fall greater then 2 stories. this is because the time it takes them to twist their spine and right themselves takes longer then a fall from 2 or less stories. (it was on Ripley's as well). if cats can survive great falls, its logical(if comic books ever could be logical) to assume that if you had cat-like metahuman powers, you could survive falls from great heights( with the combination of cat and human powers, as well as training, she could very well survive falls that were seen in the show.)
cats can jump pretty high if they need to, and ONCE AGAIN... SUPER FUCKING POWERS LET YOU DO SUPER FUCKING STUFF!
CATS=die if you cut them a lot.
CatGirl=dies if you cut her a lot
see it now?! stupid geeks.
I don't know how you can argue on and on about a comic book when is all FAKE SHIT. if you see something weird, its a superpower, you know that. you learned that when you bought your first comic book. stop complaining about what could and couldn't happen.
I'm not bitching about what you didn't like about the show acting/music/etc wise, because thats all opinion, and I like it. it wasn't perfect, but I didn't expect it to be. and Ashley Scott is hot.
*****once again, if you ever run into a cat, IT IS NOT BULLETPROOF! DO NOT SHOOT OR STAB CATS, THEY CAN GET KILLED!******* -
This has nothing to do with how faithful it was or was not to the comic books. It could have been 100% faithful to the concept. It could have been 0% faithful. It could have been called "Dark Angel: Miami." In any event, it wouldn't matter, as it was poorly acted, poorly written and poorly directed.
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Was anybody else annoyed by the Doom video game door opening sound effect in the secret lair? How about the kitty growl any time the Huntress does something? I didn't notice her opening her mouth or anything, there's just this growl. Also, the fighting was weak. What's with the slow mo? If you're going to hire women based solely on looks for an action series, at least get a decent stunt double and put a mask over her head. That Batgirl fight was inexcusable.
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"Never send a business man to do a psychopath's job."
The appearance of Harley Quinn was the best surprise in this. That said, I thought it was well done. Better then the recent Batman films (of course, how hard is that?) and more reminescent of the animated series and movies. Yeah, it was a lot like "Buffy", but who cares? "Curb Your Enthusiasm" is a lot like "Seinfeld" and it is still a great show. I thought it was well done, had some cool visuals, and looks to be an interesting take on the Batman mythos. It would be nice if Batman would cameo but the flash back to him fighting the Joker was cool to see. -
I hated the Joker he looked like crap. Since when does he shoot electricity out of his hands anyway? Why did a big fat guy portray the Scarecrow? That blonde girl is ugly and stupid but I like the cripple. She's pretty hot.
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Of course, I'm basing that on the unaired version of the pilot, but I assume she's much the same in the final version. She's like a watered-down Dark Angel, with all sorts of fake "tude", no mask (despite having a secret identity), and cheesy cat sounds. I HATE her.
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Oct 10, 2002 8:07:50 PM CDT
Positive reviewers of this shit-fest are either easily amused, o
by roobyroo
Birds of Prey was actually worse than I thought it could be. I think Smallville is pathetic, too, but it looks like Twin Peaks next to this Birds of Prey disaster. Whoever is responsible for this shit should be whipped to near-death with a flaccid whale penis. And seriously, to each their own, but people who can defend this shit seriously need help. Even if you're a harcore comic fan, and happy to see anything related to them, Birds of Prey had basic storytelling deficiencies and acting/casting problems. Mia Sara was the only cast member with any presence at all, and the Huntress should be off kissing Luke Perry in some made for cable drama, or something. Pathetic.
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It is a television show, and therefore there is a glass ceiling on the standard we should all hold for it. But, jumping baby jesus in a space ship people! Stevie Wonder could draw a picture for Ray Charles about how horrible this show is.
Alright, remove Batman, the comics, and the legends of the characters from it, and let it stand alone.
The story is seriously lacking plot-wise, the character development is one-dimensional. The acting is sub-par for a network show (perfect for a syndicated like Mutant X). If there are stakes here, what are they? Why does Dinah join them? Why doesnt she get therapy? Why do they allow her in?
On a technical level, the computer generated effects could have been done better by a fourteen year old (any teens in here who can do better, back me up)
Now many may be saying "Its a goddamned comic show! What do you expect?" Well, the reason why any character is successful is because he/she speaks to us in some way.
Birds of Prey could have been good. Who can't look back on the first episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and grimmace, but be thankful they gave it time. Birds of Prey may improve with time, but it takes a long time before shit becomes a turd and then a diamond. Most audiences wont care to stay and watch. -
...You're slightly retarded. Two quotes from you:
""How can Huntress have the strength to leap several stories up, or land after jumping from a great distance without any injury"___ SHIT have you read a comic book?"
AND
"stupid geeks. I don't know how you can argue on and on about a comic book when is all FAKE SHIT."
So, you seem to be a closet geek and a moron to boot. Not a good combo. -
Oct 10, 2002 9:15:16 PM CDT
That Joker was as convincing as an 8-year old trick-or-treater i
by roobyroo
It's beyond insane that a network (though it is the "WBizzee") could allow such a shoddy production. It's no exaggeration that the On-Star commercials have SIGNIFICANTLY higher production values than this glob of dung. And I can't really understand the (faint) praise of the actress playing Barbara Gordon: She looks like she wandered onto the set from a shampoo commercial, or something. Her acting was less convincing than Michael Jackson's "marriages."
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That openning with Mr. Pit's voice over was very campy, just about all the super hero flash backs were sloppy and just looked bad--I guess this is what you pay cinematographers for. The rest of it felt mixed, potentially interesting but the only thing that grabbed me was Mia Sara! Wow, she looks different, and not in a bad way. They definately emphasized all age in her face, but she really seemed like an older Harley Quinn in that last scene. I mean, she captured that character better than I ever expected of the girl I had a crush on from Ferris Bueller. If she's a regular, I'll be sure to tape this while I'm watching West Wing.
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...that's what I keep telling myself. It's not off to a good start, though. After the first few minutes made it clear that the WB is going for the under-14 crowd with that childish narrative flashback. Yes, I'm with you all on the Huntress' lame outfit and Thundercat-esque growl every frelling time she does something. Dina Meyer is an absolute angel, though, and if anything is going to make me watch this show hopefully develop into something good, it'll be her. Oh, and they should can the clone of Buffy's sister, she just doesn't add a danged thing to the mix.
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Man, you guys are WAY too picky. Like Smallville this is shown a day late in my town so based on the talkbacks I thought we were talking Black Scorpion here-- geeze. OK, Huntress' outfit sucks (nobody knows her secret because they just assume she's a hooker obviously) and her 'tude/performance is in the lower end of the TV range (and yeah, they should dump the stupid stupid cat sounds-- what does she carry a walkman to give herself atmosphere?) -- and the Bat/Joker flashback visuals were cheesy (what the hell is supposed to be wrong with Joker using a suped-up joy buzzer???) But over all it was pretty cool -- nice Batgirl costume (oh yeah, like Huntress is cooler ) and BG using the 'rang from the wheelchair And apart from anything else TEN BIG POINTS for using Mark Hamill in the audio cameo. Why does Helena have powers? Gee, I dunno, maybe she found Mark Merlin's amulet, or maybe the magic voices that created Hawk and Dove gave her cat powers, maybe the Apokolips parallel Cadmus project infected her with genetically engineered cat power potion, maybe Delerium of the Undying liberated the suppressed "cat" spirit in her soul-- but you're right-- I can't imagine any reasonable way somebody without super powers could have gotten them in the DC universe (for the _slow_, read HEAVY SARCASM). I like that Harley Quinn is the big bad, but I'll never be happy til I hear her talk about her ex-boyfriend "Mistah Jay".
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I gave this show a shot and it was horrible! Batman's a coward, the joker looked horrible and his mouth didn't even match Mark Hamil's voice over which I could barely hear. Alfred should be 100 years old, and he still looks the same age, what the hell is "New Gotham" they never explained that, and why doesn't Huntress wear a mask what's the point of having a secret identity if you don't conceal it somehow. WB just hurry up and give me a special edition of the first and second Batman on DVD, because I'm seriously losing my faith in your corporation!
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It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I had seen the original pilot and definetly approve of the changes. Many are wondering where Sherilynn Fenn went...I heard she had signed on as a "guest star" who would appear in only a couple of episodes a season. But the writers put her character in every episode. Apparently this was too big a committment for this "very busy" actress. So, she's now free to drop back off into oblivion. In steps Mia Sara as Harley Quinn. Mia looked kinda...um...haggard, I thought. But I guess Ferris Beuller was 16 years ago. I think The WB captured the right Batman tone and future episodes will reveal more Bat-Mythos. But that stupid cat growl sound effect has GOT to go!! I laughed everytime I heard it. That's my 2.
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It actually isn't from a FAKE year one script, its in the comic, sure its only a kiss, but try explaining that to your girlfriend. Anyway, "but leaving one for dead is at the very least manslaughter, if not attempted murder..." Exactly, thats what I said, if you read my post, but it still isn't TECHNICALLY killing someone.
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Oct 11, 2002 3:34:21 AM CDT
There never has been a good Live Action Batman related movie/sh
by monkeybrains
Why is everyone shocked that this show did not live up to the hype? Any live action show featuring Batman, or his universe has been a disaster. Sure there was camp fun with the
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Of course I was 12, but I've always looked at it as one vision of Batman. They do the same thing in comics. I won't attempt to defend the others, but the first; it was alright. It wasn't the Ultimate Batman, but it was alright.
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A knock knock joke? "Batgirl... past tense"? You'd think the Joker would have dreamt about the day he's shot that meddling Batgirl for years. At least make a poor taste joke like, "What do you call Batgirl in the ocean? Bob"
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I was thinking the other day, perhaps Victoria Jackson or that cute blonde actress who played Lucy the secretary on Twin Peaks would have been better choices. Especially the actress who played Lucy (whose name escapes me). Back during her Twin Peaks years, she would have been perfect as Harley in the full harlequin get-up. If not Audrey Horne, then it should have been Lucy. What does everybody think?
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Mia Sara disappeared into the role and made it work. That's the one thing I thought was done spot on perfect in this show(and her psychiatrist office set worked pretty good too). I must admit though, the heroines are what have to work to keep this show going, and unlike Harley they weren't very good. I didn't feel Helena lived up to either Batman or Catwoman in presence or personality, Dinah's "Phoenixes...aren't real... are they," felt like a Dawn line with a Dawn delivery and was out of place in a superhero world instead of the magic and demons worlds of Buffy and Charmed. Dina was fine, but the guy hitting on her and the "hey, I can too be self destructive" stuff made it clear what age bracket they're aiming for(like the corny costumes didn't). But I won't agree that Harley Quinn was done wrong, she was THE saving grace of the show for me.
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This is your favorite show, isn't it Fett? "She died 8 FUCKING TIMES in Batman Returns, and she's a normal human? Why did the knife kill her? SHE WAS OUT OF LIVES ASSHOLE!!! Jesus Christ, you fucking retards!" To be fair, I think the other person's question was directed towards the more accepted version of Catwoman, as the movie isn't generally considered canon. That was just my take. "As for the acting and the dialogue, don't read many comics do you? It's all a soap opera with trite dialogue! Try this, write out your favorite comic book in script form and act it out with a friend. After a couple of lines you'll say. "Geez, Fettastic was right, this dialogue is really stupid"." Comics with bad dialogue and stories are crap, just like TV shows with bad dialogue and acting are crap. Just because its a comic book or based on a comic book does not mean it has a license to be bad quality. I refuse to accept sub-par work simply because there's a costume involved. I don't know what comics you buy, but the ones I get would be great live action, especially compared to this... "Would you enjoy the show more if all the characters were in action poses constantly?" Actually that would be pretty funny. I'd watch that show. "Does Huntress have a walkman to create atmosphere? Try hitting someone. What sopund does it make? Kind of a small thud and slight "smack"? Basically, it doesn't make any sound at all. So anyone on TV that hits someone must carry a walkman with them right?" Here, you're confused again. The comment that you're ranting about was not made in reference to the sounds of Huntress hitting someone. It was actually a facetious comment about the Puma growl that seems to come from nowhere while the Huntress is fighting. Just clearing that up for you. Good try though. And just for the record, I only beat off to the decon scenes on Enterprise, never to the slightly homo-erotic nature of Kirk and Spock, but if you want to, go right ahead, its a free country. "There's nothing wrong with Birds of Prey." Wha?... uh, ok. Guess you saw a different show than I did. Maybe thats why you're defending it... After re-reading your post, I've decided that it is true that this is your favorite show. That and that you are obviously special. Well, then, good for you. You just watch your show, then, big guy. Good for you!
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And I hated, hate HATED Dark Angel. It felt like I was watching Mutant X.
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I barely have the energy to even comment on this poison. Call it "Charmed" with costumes if you will. This another ill-concieved and poorly executed superhero piece, completely cliche ridden and some T&A tossed in as a further insult. A collective DUUUUUH! should be uttered by any who enjoyed it. Stop bad superhero product now!
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Camp-a-licious!
If you whining comic fan boys stopped to actually watch you'd have noticed it was quite good fun, tongue in cheek style. And 3 not horribly disfigured leads... -
The best thing in the whole show was Mia Sara's performance. At the end of the episode she sounded like Harley without OVER doing it. She rocks!
Dina Meyer was good and Ashley Scott wasnt awful. The show was not what I was hoping for but It has potential. -
Hey, it was better than Burt Ward and his swollen testicles to the size of grapefruit from the 60's. A better quasia batman series is still better than a bloated Tim Curry Sitcom. Thank You!
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I really have nothing to add, I just wanted to say the word Cuntress to get you all laughing.
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That was a pretty neat scene you discribed in a public medium that is read by WB employees. You just guaranteed that WB lawyers will never allow a scene like that (even if written in ignorance of your comment) because for all they know you might hit them with nuisance litigation. However, I too hope that they do a Bat cameo and voice it with Kevin Conroy (who should _always_ do Batman's voice-- load him and Hamill into voice synthesizer systems now before they lose it)
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Fortunately, I recorded BoP and watched it, or at least 15 minutes of it. Thankfully, I didn't actually waste good time on it. I watched it as I watched the news on the enlarged PIP screen. It's now understandable why Herc didn't actually waste a star on rating it. Wait, maybe that was his rating - no stars.
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of a few crazy people like Fett, theres been a surprisingly few amount of people defending this show. We can't even get a good debate going. That shows you how bad this show is. Dark Angel had more fans than this. Even Andromdea does. This show, strictly bottom of the barrel.
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VIEWERS FALL PREY: The WB is on one heck of a roll this season! The network's new Batman drama Birds of Prey had a rockin' debut Wednesday, attracting 7.6 million viewers and helping the WB finish second for the night among adults 18-34.
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Oct 13, 2002 2:35:33 AM CDT
So bad, it went past good and came back to bad again...
by truthseekr1488
...but WTF, I'm a mercyful Christ so I'll give it a chance. Are you listening, WB?
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MASK OF THE PHANTASM. Oh, it's true...it's true.
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Ever since the Art Buckwald success in suing the studio over "Coming to America" any publicly presented material, like your scenario, is off limits, not because of anything you would do-- your intentions are totally irrelevant-- you "wrote" and hold copyright to that "work" -- you can't give it up in a legally binding fashion without signing a contract (they can't be SURE you won't sue-- which could cost them even if you lose) and they won't bother-- they'll just tell the writers they can't do it. -- You should just never suggest a detailed story scenario on a bulletin board if you know that studio reps frequent it.
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Fettastic, agree with you on the Batman story ideas, but otherwise not. ***The saddest thing is, the ideas they had were damn good. (Oh, except for that "meta-human" crap.) That's why it's all the more frustrating that the actual episode sucked! Loved hearing Mark Hamill's voice, liked the guy playing Alfred, enjoyed the Batgirl costume, but over all, it just wasn't that good. ***As for "New Gotham", I've just resigned myself that this is all happening on Earth-2 (hell, the continuity fits better). Might give the show a chance later, see if they actually manage to bring their good ideas to life in a way that is not so dreck-like. Oh, and wouldn't mind Nightwing showing up. Whoever suggested Jared Leto was right on the money.
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