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UPDATED!! GHOST RIDER Script Review'!
Hey, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab.
I have had a chance to not only see the draft this person reviewed, but also to talk to key contacts. This review is another fake. I've never read a GHOST RIDER comic in my life and know nothing about the character. As a result, I had nothing to weigh this particular review against until the middle of today. I remain delighted with each and every one of you with spare time on his hands.
At any rate... knowing this isn't the film should make all of you much happier based on the rather hilarious TalkBacks. Check this out...
Ghost Rider Script Review
First of all, I have no idea who wrote this draft, because I received it via email and there was no cover on it. If it’s the David Goyer draft, I’m very impressed because I’ve never been a real fan of the man’s writing. Sure, his Blade and Blade II were great action-packed comic book adaptations, but THIS is in a completely different league altogether. And if this is an early unproduced draft that they have thrown out for whatever reason, then the studios really are going to hell in a hand basket due to stupid decisions because if this gets made, it could be unlike any superhero movie you’ve ever seen before.
Stepping away from the script after my first reading, I couldn’t help but think this is the movie that M Night Shyamalan or Andrew Kevin Walker would make if they were given the Ghost Rider franchise. It’s got character, it’s got action and it’s got some very carefully layered plot twists and turns that will knock you on your ass! Maybe that’s why I’m questioning if it’s the Goyer draft or not. No offense to the man or his fans, but he’s not known for his depth. I would call this more ‘Se7en’ or ‘Unbreakable’ than ‘X-Men’ or ‘Blade’. Those are great comic book movies, but this just doesn’t feel like a ‘comic book’ movie. The supernatural/hero element is just ONE part of the story.
If you’re a die-hard Ghost Rider continuity fan hoping for a direct adaptation of either the Dan Ketch storyline or the Johnny Blaze storyline, then you’re out of luck. I was going to say “then you won’t like this movie”, but that’s very hard to say because the movie stands on it’s own and is more of a loose adaptation or ‘re-imagining’ than a faithful translation. I’m a Ghost Rider fan from way back, so if anyone would get into a huff about the changes made for this story, it would be me.
The main characters here are John Blaze and Roxanne Quentin. In fact, in many ways, this feels like Roxanne’s movie. That’s a very unique point of view to take in my book, but it’s an extremely well-written female lead and she gets about as much screen time as John does. The story is set a few years after their divorce and John and his son are traveling with the Quentin Carnival while Roxanne, who retired from the husband/wife stunt show after almost dying in an accident, has moved to the city and set herself up as a paramedic. None of this is taken from the comic book, but in this story it works well.
‘Ghost Rider’, who is never actually called that by any character in the script, is sighted at the scene of several murders early in the story – leading one to believe ‘it’ is responsible for the deaths. And in these scenes you’ll see Ghost Rider use the ‘penance stare’ and trigger memories and such that are downright creepy/shocking. You just don’t know what to make of this thing early on, because it’s a layered story that will all come together towards the end. About the same time these Ghost Rider sighting start taking place, a bunch of people start showing up at the hospital in a catatonic state with satanic markings burnt into their heads. You immediately assume these are Ghost Rider’s victims. And no one can blame you for that, because that’s what you’re meant to think.
Anyway, Blaze rolls into town, meets up with Roxanne and they are both recruited for their supernatural intelligence by Detective Badalino (also in the comic, but not like this). So, they’re taken on as advisors to help solve the case of the Ghost Rider and the catatonic patients at the hospital. Roxanne has a friend at the hospital (a new character named Angela Freeman) who also helps them out a little with their research. At first, I thought this doctor was a token black character thrown in to move the story along, but she becomes very important later on in the story.
The biggest and most controversial plot point here is that John Blaze is not Ghost Rider…and there is no mention of him ever being Ghost Rider. In fact, no ‘one’ person is the Ghost Rider. The ‘Ghost Rider’ is a spirit of vengeance that is passed from person to person in no discernible common pattern other than the host’s thirst for vengeance for a wrong committed against them in their past or present. The plot here is that the devil (in human form) is offering six different people the chance to become the Ghost Rider for a one-time shot at vengeance in exchange for their souls. And once he has that sixth and final soul, he can take over as the ruler upstairs (Heaven, for the uneducated). Man, that sounds so hokey and cornball in an ‘evil genius’ type of way, but it doesn’t read like that at all…trust me.
So, about midpoint, the plan is vaguely pieced together and it’s up to the four main players to try and find the last few bearers before the process can be completed. And, believe me, it’s a needle-in-the-haystack search if ever there was one…one might say it was a hopeless fight. It is then discovered that the catatonic patients that keep turning up at the hospital are in fact the soulless shells of the people who were given their shot at vengeance with the Ghost Rider spirit of vengeance.
I don’t wanna ruin anything in case (please God) this is the script that is getting made, but the last act is one twist and revelation after another and any confusion you had throughout the first two acts makes so much shocking sense all of a sudden that your jaw drops a few times. While you think you’re reading a straightforward thriller throughout the script, you can’t help but look back at the end and realize what a beautifully layered story it was. And on the second reading, I was amazed at how well it was all paced and tied together. It’s kinda ‘Shyamalan’ in that way, I suppose, but with the mood that Walker set in his Se7en screenplay. I wouldn’t say this is as good as that film, but it is reminiscent for sure.
My praises: This is an intelligent supernatural/thriller. The dialogue is fantastic, the characterization was obviously carefully tended to and the story is so finely woven together that it feels like a heck of a lot of story for a 105 page script. Yet, the pacing is blisteringly fast. And the last act; man, I can’t heap enough praise on it. The ending is somewhat downbeat, but it really is the only ending that could have come about. It all makes so much sense in the end that you forget it’s a ‘funny book’ story. Some of the violence and issues looked at are definitely not movie-stylised and I fear that some of it will go if they ever wanna scrape in with an R rating. As it stands, this is an NC-17 picture for sure. It would be a very brave move to keep everything intact.
My problems: The controversy of the very idea behind Ghost Rider being something that is passed around from person to person is gonna make so many people bitch about ‘unfaithful adaptations’ that I think they’d be better served changing the title and character names and a few plot points and making it a whole new movie. There are still a few confusing elements and a few plot points that were maybe a little too ‘convenient’ for my tastes. I would definitely like to see Blaze having been the Ghost Rider in the past. It would take away from the sense of horror the characters face when first seeing the Ghost Rider, but it would add so
much to the other parts of the story…like WHY Blaze and Roxanne have knowledge of the supernatural and maybe a way for Blaze to tap into the power to find the next bearer. As it is, it seems like a ‘Wow, good thing we bumped into the final bearer out here on the street or we’d be screwed’ type of explanation. But these gripes are just personal nit-pickings.
This is going to be a controversial take on a semi-popular character, but in no way “Holy shit; Luthor has superpowers” controversial. Is it faithful to the comics?
Nope. It takes ideas and characters from the comics and uses them in this story…like most comic book adaptations do. In fact, I’d say this is a BETTER story than the comics. And I’m a big Ghost Rider fan (which is why this script was leaked to me), so that’s not easy for me to say. All I CAN say is that I’ll be there at the crack of dawn on opening day if this is what makes it to the big screen.
Mr Goyer, if this is your script, then I want to commend you on single-handedly changing my mind on your ‘talents’ in under two hours.
I guess if I have to have a cutesy undercover name it will be:
Ghost Rider In The MachineNice work, man. I hope I get a chance to steal a peek at this one soon m’self.
"Moriarty" out.
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+ Expand All
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If this is genuine maybe it's the writer who wants his draft to be made...?
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Cage as Blaze or Johnny Depp as Dan Ketch. Either way would be awesome.I perfer Blaze.
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I think it will suck, and if its like this Nick Cage won't do it.
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but did anybody else feel like that was a moriarty review under another pseudonym?
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If I was going to review it, I'd just review it. No reason for me to write under other pseudonyms. If I've got a conflict, as I clearly would in this case, then I'll just sit on the bench. No worries there. Sure, I'll be disappointed that I can't write a review for PUNCHDRUNK LOVE or PETER PAN or any other Revolution Studios film I'm looking forward to, but I'm also honest about it. I'm not bein' sneaky. Honest injun.
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This sounds a bit...different. I wasn't all that much of a GR fan, but I have a working knowledge of the char. The more I think about this sciprt it sounds a bit...Spawnish if you know what I mean
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It sounds like an interesting script.. and I'll probably enjoy it in the end if it's made, but I also don't like some elements from it, but I guess I could buy it.. they can still do a more faithful adaption later as this doesn't seem to contradict much besides the fact that Blaze is not, or was not the original Ghost Rider.. means, no Hellfire gun? Also, isn't that the Detective that BECOMES Vengeance?
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Ghost Rider inhabiting different people is not a problem, he's done it before. Nicholas Cage, however, must not be given this role, nor indeed any role ever again, because whenever I watch him try to act my feelings tend to oscillate between revulsion and pity. Apart from that it's all good.
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Obviously a plant. sk
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Hey...if there's a flaming skull in a bike kicking ass and givin the old "penance stare"...then i'
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Yes the reviewer was extremely enthusiastic, but I imagine that someone out there could write an enthusiastic review of "Look Who's Talking Too". The truth is, the plot of this sounds totally silly and contrived. No wonder it died on the vine.
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Uh, it had character, and heart and depth (it's there), it was meaningful AND had action, which is why I wonder if this script has anything BUT action... which isn't so smart or original. He's not even called 'Ghost Rider'? Then he's another non-hero? That has potential, if the trailer makes it seem like a low-budget flick until his life changes and he becomes something else. Superman breaking through chains might be thought of as lame, simple and '2D' but for those w/ imaginations, this can mean a lot of things and you can put yourself into the character or view it as a metaphor for a billion situations or merely see it as an action (for those w/o creativity). I got carried away and few will understand this! I just meant that characterization sometimes isn't everything... (though they are always necessary). I find it hard to trust this reviewer, The BIG problem is, this guy doesn't dislike anything about this script that he mentions in this review, he just says fans are going to bitch about changes and suggests they shouldn't. The story sounds derivative, isn't that the story for 100 Bullets?
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Oct 07, 2002 10:22:11 AM CDT
Just take the words Ghost and Rider off everything and it sounds
by postwood
Cause this aint no Ghost Rider.
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Agent Graves = the Devil. Sounds more than a little too unfaithful to the comic book, anyway. And how the fuck does this morron get off calling them funny books?!
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Wasn't being critical, but I thought the reviewer sounded a lot like you...which is a good thing.
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Oct 07, 2002 10:57:44 AM CDT
what!?! a movie where the main actors head is always on fire!?!
by dumbkidd
how the fuck will they do that, digital? THAT'LL LOOK LIKE SHIT!
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Oct 07, 2002 11:48:43 AM CDT
Any time they enter "the devil" into a script, you knows it'
by empyreal0
It's just too heavy-handed for anyone to take the least bit seriously. What's the use of writing hero-fantasy if you can't sell your audience on the concept. I bought Wolverine's anger. I bought The Joker's insanity. I could buy the Ghost Rider as a mysterious specter of death. Why introduce something so ridiculously over the top as Satan (like that shit of a movie End of Days, or Bless the Child) and completely demolish what could have been a great ghost story meets hero movie? I can see it now, in a few years someone's going to make a movie where there's "a greater evil than even Satan himself - mwuhahahaha." *sigh* pap smear on celluloid.
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I read that the studio were shooting for a PG rating that David Goyer wasn't happy with so he jumped ship. Is this true? Or are they still using his script anyway and just toning it down a lot?
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Oct 07, 2002 1:36:22 PM CDT
The Spirit of Vengence Possesses Maverick's Dead Partner - "
by hipcheck13
No, no, no, NO. John Blaze is Ghost Rider, period. Not Dan Ketch, not six people who're part of some satanic scavenger hunt. This "reimagining" sounds like someone passing a cold to five other people. The ORIGINAL GR story has so much depth - John, stunt-rider in a circus, tricked by the devil - I think you HAVE to start there. Then you can bring in elements of the "newer" GR (penance stare).
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Remove the Devil is going to usurp God plot point and Im sold. Seems like a descent script to me. ust insert a powerful demon is going to invade the earth plot line instead. The Headless Horseman....errr I mean Ghost Rider has had so many different versions it shouldnt matter much anyway.
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Lord have mercy, i just saw it online....my god, i think i won't be able to get any sleep for a while....*shiver*.
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Well here is the second marvel adaption to realy sound like it's gonna suck.
First the heart and soul of the Hulk is torn asunder by some arthouse fuck and now the nature of the ghost rider is gonna be beatin, thrown into a ditch and pissed on by someone who should know better. We might as well go back to watching spiderman climb up a wall with the wires clearly visable, atleast those were true to the character. -
Oct 07, 2002 3:43:58 PM CDT
A Ghost Rider movie would be as lame as a movie about Dazzler.
by roobyroo
Any executive who would green-light this silly shit should be immediately fired.
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doesn`t it just look like a white grinch???
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...if they were making a Ghost Rider film. In fact, he is probably not too bad a choice for Mr. Blaze. However, this isn't a Ghost Rider film except in name only.
Could be worse, I guess. Ghost Rider could be a giant robotic Spider-Spirit of Vengeance.
E. -
i think this sounds pretty promising... MAYBE something to anticipate...i dunno. the only thing i know for sure is that i`d be REALLY HAPPY IF ANYONE WOULD E-ME ANY SCRIPTS....tzz..tzz..tzz. who the hell do you have to BE if you find scripts in you e-mail account....
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This film could be about Dan Ketch rubbing a frickin' magic gas cap on his motorcycle to become the Spirit of Vengeance. Now, that would suck.
E. -
There's not much I want from a ghost rider movie,flaming skull, motorcycle stunts, flaming death for the guilty. However, I really think Johnny Blaze should be the ghost rider after being tricked by Mephisto, I never read those new storylines they looked crappy. Oh, and a Dazzler movie would rock as 70's period movie about coke and disco, they could throw in Luke Cage and have them fight the circus of fear with a little help from S.H.E.I.L.D. All about the glitter spandex and rollerskates.
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It doesnt sound bad but it needs to be the sequel and at the end have johnny blaze fight the last ghost rider satan has made.We need to know johhny blaze is ghost rider,plain and simple,its like saying peter parker isnt spiderman.Eddie brock is.It just wouldnt work and i know GR is no spiderman or even close to being as popular but we need that origin story 1st.
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This 'body jumping/switching' idea sounds pretty lame to me. I can name numerous movies where this plot device was used and they all have one thing in common - they were awful movies. I can see that they are attempting to emulate THE CROW (an avenging spirit that possesses different bodies), but I think that is the wrong way to go. The mystery angle would be good if this movie wasn't entitled GHOST RIDER and based on an established comic book character whose identity is known to its readers. You can see the dilema here. No, I think this movie needs a different approach.
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Not to knock other Ghost Rider fans, but I always felt the supporting characters never lived up to the coolness and idea of Ghost Rider. Honestly though, I'd be just as happy with a film that played similar to the original Crow film, but with Ghost Rider being the element of vengence. (I don't mean he should go around talking and whining, but just have a similar feel. Ghost Rider is a different character than Johnny, umlike Eric and his reborn self.) I really want to see Ghost Rider on film for a decent amount of time. It's such a pop-myth design! GR's the main character, not Johnny Blaze in a costume. Maybe that's what the script writer was intending, but it feels like we're getting a movie about paranormal detectives/circus performers. My favorite issues of the Johnny Blaze storyline involve him riding like a wanderer through America. I'd love to see a wide-shot of GR riding across the desert with the only light coming from his skull and cycle. Lastly, I don't want this to be a biker movie - I hated the recent Gun Metal Gray GR relaunch.
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They won't need any CGI to simulate ol' firehead. Actually what would be really cool is if they dumped gasoline on Carrot Top and threw a match on him. No wait! Hook Carrot Top to a bunjee cord, dump gasoline on him, push him off a bridge then fire flaming arrows at him as he "bounces". Leave his charred remains(still attached to the cord) overnight, then return the next day and....where was this going? Anyway...Carrot Top's real name is Scott Thompson(100% true). Weird. MF
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Sounds shitty. "It
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"Ghost Rider should fight Zombie Bruce Paltrow!"
Poor dead Bruce Paltrow seems to take quite a beating in these talkbacks. Could DUETS have been all that bad? I guess so.
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is if the script is badass and true to the original story... because majority of the tickets sale will be from the hardcore GR fans
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...but Hollywood would fuck that up, too.
E. -
..bring on the "Punisher"
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Don't just say it ain't stylized for movies. NC17? You're killin me, man.
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I think this is the point of these 're-imaginings'. It's a writer's agenda. These are the same people who have been screwing comic characters for years. Now, let me clarify, some writers approach characters with the idea of "What would make a great story for this character to take part in?" Then, you get these other writers who have their own agenda "How can I make my mark on this character? How can I remake this character?" Essentially, the latter backfires and we end up with endless new costume designs and convulted storylines that make no sense. I hate it when this happens. It's really disgusting (to me) when a new writer comes on a character that's been around for longer than the writer has been alive, and all he wants to do is throw out what works, all in favor of making his mark and giving us his take. (I'm glad your are creative, but make your own characters if you want to present your take. Don't haphazardly throw it into main continuity because it was fun to brainstorm.) The guys who really know and love comics are the folks who want to write good stories for a character to take part in (and also follow natural extensions of the character), or think: "what would make a good Superman comic? What would make a good Batman comic?" These are the guys who are truly the ones who make a mark on a character. There are certain characters you can immediately identify with a writer and/or artist. These are the guys who wanted to serve the character's mythos instead of trying to serve themselves. I'm not saying that everytime a creator and a character don't mesh means that the writer is out to tarnish the character, but I do believe a lot of times, the creator aren't aware of what their 're-imaginings' are doing.
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This movie could be worse but, who knows. I got involved with GR in the Dan Ketch incarnation, I liked that story, I would enjoy seeing some story of GR facing off with Blackout. Offtopic a bit, that bit about the Crow being about an avenging spirit possessing bodies is just wrong. The crow is the vessel that allows a wrongly killed person to come back and set things right, granted there is a bit of vengenace involved but now spirit possession, thank you very much.
D99 -
Put it in the Script that Jhonny once was GR. It'd definitely add to the story and wouldn't alter it much.
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I don't get it. I mean, really. Why? sk
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Jeezus, Moriarty...
triple check! triple check!!! -
..riding around in his blue jump suit"
purists,bah. -
Hell yeah that Ghost Rider song kicked ass. I never understood why it was on the Crow soundtrack. Hmmmm... maybe if they ever did a Ghost Rider movie, Henry Rollins should definitely have a role. He was the best part of Johnny Mnumonic and The Chase.
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It turns out that this is NOT the script for the film, BUT I don't see why I've been I've been outed as a 'fraud' for reviewing what I actually thought was the script. If someone sends you a script and says "This is the script for the Ghost Rider movie", you kind of take that at face value. I was reviewing what i was told was the actual script for the Ghost Rider movie...just like Moriarty accepted it for it was and posted the review for the script that i thought was the real deal. We both did so in 'good faith'. I apologise if I wasted anyone's time, but I am telling you that I'm not a dishonest contributor just because I was slipped a fake. And I'm hesitant to call it a 'fake', because I still think it is a good script that would make a solid movie (maybe not Ghost Rider), whoever wrote it. I'm sorry this turned out to be a fake, but I'm not going to take the rap as being 'dishonest' for just accepting the script as genuine...just like Moriarty just accepted my review as genuine. Thank you.
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Oct 07, 2002 9:59:52 PM CDT
Poor moriarty.. someones probably launching an organized assault
by thematarife
Spies that start giving good info, then screw you. A classic tactic. I'd be double checking all your info from now on, hell triple check it. Maybe its warner brotehrs fking with you guys over the superman review. Be careful, and tread lightly. Oh yeah, you might want to get Visual route, from www.visualroute.com and trace that email and see where it came from. You might find something interesting.
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Its been a few days, lets hear about it M. !
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keep getting played. some advice? let it happen. thats your site. you're a rumor and gossip site. not a fact site. be what you are
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"The controversy of the very idea behind Ghost Rider being something that is passed around from person to person is gonna make so many people bitch about
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is his look. the flaming skull guy on the 70s hog. as a kid, i loved the way he looked, but never got to into the character. i vaguely remember the name Jonny Blaze, but that's more thanx to Method Man than the comix. so... it doesn't really matter a good gosh darn to me what they do with the character. i'd like to see something cool. so far, this sounds like a mixture of the Crow and Spawn which... well, were okay at best. as far as the violence is concerned, i'd loooove to see an NC-17 level violent superhero film, but the likelyhood of this occuring in the increasingly puritanical Hollywood is extremely unlikely at best. here's an idea: give the liscense to the Japanese, THEN you'd get your hyperviolent action film that achieves cult status... Hollywood has given up taking chances, where as the new Japanese cinema is taking chances Americans only dream of...
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IF you are of voting age and you live in Arizona FOR GODSAKE vote YES on PROP 203, you need it and it needs you...
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This ISN'T the Ghost Rider screenplay that I was told and thought it was, so no one needs to worry about how bad a treatment of Ghost Rider's history it is. As I told Moriarty when I sent him the script, the more I think about it, the more I realise that I was impressed with the script itself as it was...but maybe not as a Ghost Rider movie. It SOUNDS like the Crow or whatever, but it's not. The best way I can describe it is as a supernatural 'Se7en', mixed with 'Fallen'. But this is all redundant...I was given the wrong impression by my source and it spilled over on to these pages and I'm very sorry for that. I stand by my review of the script itself...whatever it was/is intended for or whoever wrote it is inconsequential. I'd be interested to see if it was fanfiction or a rejected draft or something, but all i seem to be getting is 'someone told me this is the GR script from someone inside the production'. It's turned out as a game of chinese whispers. i'm not the first one to get sucked in by it...the reviewers on this site have fallen for it at times...and it will continue to happen. I didn't intend for it to turn out like this...I sent in the review knowing very little, but trusting what I HAD been told. and no one can hold that against me.
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Why, so Hollywood can fuck it up again?
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Man...i really wanted to see a flaming skull from hell kicking ass left and right!!!
Will this movie ever get made?...
I just hope they don't use that "toned down" cute version where Ghost Rider has a little cute friend and the two of them feed scarves to Ghost Rider dogs... -
Dude, honest mistake, we understand. whatever, move on, stop apologizing. Just remember kids, if it's in your e-mail, it's not always true! Example: $49 vacations, penis enlargements and Bambi's Porn Dorm. right up there with "authorless GR Script."
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