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So they test screened RED DRAGON again and guess what... Spies say....
Hey folks, Harry here with 4 looks at Brett Ratner's adaptation of RED DRAGON (some call it a remake of Michael Mann's MANHUNTER) and with divergent folks like Sgt Kabukiman, Vincent Gecko, The Power Broker and Edith Bouvier Beale, Jr. are all raving pretty strong about how much they enjoyed themselves at RED DRAGON last night. There are some spoilers ahead, so tread carefully, but it seems Ratner is a winner with this one....
Some spoilers, I’m sure:
RED DRAGON
I got to see a special advance screening of Red Dragon and the movie does not disappoint, well, it didn’t disappoint me anyway. This flick turned out to be my favorite Hannibal Lechter movie yet. Don’t get me wrong, Silence of the Lambs and Hannibal are both probably actually BETTER movies, but Red Dragon was much more fun and appealing to me.
What sets it apart the most is the sheer amount of laughs it produces. The film is far too funny for it’s own good. It’s not stupid funny, either, or bad funny. All the jokes are completely intentional and totally believable in the context of the film. They didn’t turn the movie into a comedy either, it’s just that when compared to the other Hannibal films, this one has far more great laughs, mostly due to great performances and dramatic irony. I don’t want to turn anyone off to flick by saying that it’s funny, it’s not light in tone, but viewers are going to be pleasantly pleased by the well-executed humor.
The direction was rather strait-forward and I felt this film was better paced than Manhunter. All the performances were top-notch. Edward Norton and Harvey Keitel are always great. Philip Seymour-Hoffman plays a ridiculously sleazy tabloid journalist. Emily Watson is completely convincing as a near-miss Tooth Fairy victim and Ralph Feinnes disappears in the role of the Red Dragon serial killer. For those nay-sayers who wonder if this film was really necessary with the perfectly fine film Manhunter already in existence, their answer is a resounding “yeah.” The movie was much more a prequel to SotL and Hannibal than a remake to the very dated Manhunter.
As much as I enjoyed the movie, I can’t say that it’s completely flawless. The most glaring problem is the opening sequence. Although it’s great to see Hannibal up and about and feeding people human flesh in elaborate meals before he’s imprisoned, his capture at the hands of Ed Norton feels a little hokey and tacked on, don’t be surprised if this does not make the final cut. I’m glad I saw the sequence because it was pretty damn cool and I’d always wondered about the details of how Hannibal was first caught and imprisoned to begin with, but that could have been a whole other film instead of a quickie pre-opening credit sequence. Ralph Fiennes was perhaps a little miscast as well. He puts in a great performance but physically doesn’t fit as well as someone like, say Vincint D’onofrio might. I can foresee professional reviewers panning the film when comparing it’s (pre)sequels. It doesn’t quite have the drama and heaviness of the other films, but it makes up for this in sheer coolness.
The sequences with Ed Norton and Anthony Hopkins in an exact clone of the SotL prison set are easily the most entertaining filmed. The chemistry between the two is great. I should probably write something about the thrills in the film. Personally, as a movie-watcher, I never get scared or jumpy when watching movies, but the rest of the 900+ some people at the Zeigfeld were “ooh”ing and “ahh”ing and jumping and getting startled at all the appropriate moments of which there were a bunch. The violence and gore is all top-notch, there’s more on screen than SotL but not the ridiculous amount as seen in Hannibal.
Some dude told us that we were the first audience to see the movie before it began but what we saw sure felt like a final finished product. With the possible exception of the opening sequence mentioned above, I doubt there will be much change between now and the street release date. And sequence is good enough that I’m sure they’ll probably include in the final film, though you never know what those test audiences are going to write on those cards. All in all, hardcore fans and purists will probably be disappointed by this prequel, but then again, aren’t they always? For kids like me, that can appreciate a fun cool film that’s not going to win any Oscars, this one’s not to be missed on the big screen.
-Vincent GeckoAnd now for the amazingly bizarre... Edith Bouvier Beale, Jr...
Hey, Harry and gang!! This is “Edith Bouvier Beale, Jr.”
I last wrote a tear-soaked email praising THE HOURS (which is
perfect, there’s not one bad thing I can say about it... go Oscar for
Julianne Moore), but I write to you tonight regarding a RED DRAGON screening
that went down tonight at the Ziegfeld in New York. In attendance were Brett
“Studio 54” Ratner, Dino “Look at my young wife” Di Laurentiis, The Young
Wife (I get the impression from the HANNIBAL dvd that I’d really like her)
and a very creepy Ralph Fiennes who seemed nice enough when people stopped
him for a hand shake.
I love both SILENCE and HANNIBAL. I love SILENCE for its inspired
grit (and Jodie Foster) and the incredibly misunderstood HANNIBAL for being a
brilliantly perverse trashy love story. RED DRAGON tries to embrace both the
rawness and the campiness at the same time, and comes off as the bastard
child of the first two movies. It’s not at all a bad movie-- it’s really
quite entertaining and ends with the perfect note-- but it’s not quite right
either.
Ed Norton stars as Will Graham, the FBI Agent who first captured
Lecter (we see that... and it’s dumb). It’s years after said capture and he
now has to catch the laughably named “Tooth Fairy” (Fiennes... so creepy) who
murders picture-perfect families, rapes the wives and replaces everyone’s
eyes with bits of mirror. Graham has to leave his wife (Mary-Louise Parker...
someone put her in the PROOF movie) and son to go catch the killer. That’s
the blah part. That’s the part that plays unevenly, volleying between thrills
and winking at the audience jokes. Norton’s quite good, though.
The part that makes this movie awesome is the alternate plot (or, the
real plot I suppose) in which a blind Emily Watson falls for Fiennes, her
coworker, not knowing about his hobbies on the side. The tentative romance
between a mass murder with performance issues and a trampy blind girl is not
only sweet in a bizarre way but also enlivened by the two performances.
Fiennes struggles with himself over Watson-- Should he marry her or set her
on fire? Watson is transcendent, making even the dumbest lines gems. She’s
one of the best actresses working today, and she gets to show off and have
fun with this role. Let’s hope Oscar comes a knockin for PUNCH-DRUNK LOVE!
Which brings me to Sir Anthony. Goodness. I guess he’s trying to give
people what they want to see, but... Ick. The best analogy is that kid from
the Dell commercials. At first he was funny and charming and whatever. At
first. But then maybe he watched the commercials and became so aware of what
he does that it degrades into parody. This Hannibal is more campy drag queen
that a real danger. What’s he gonna do? Sip his wine and make another witty,
urbane comment? Yikes!
To make a long story short, RED DRAGON is quite good, not great, but
it’s probably exactly what it should be. It’ll make bajillions of dollars no
matter what, so whatever.
Best, EDIE :-)
PS-- Look out for Mary-Louise towards the end. She kicks ass!! The whole
time, I kept wondering what she was doing in this cameo role, and then she
makes me remember why she’s the shit.Can a talk backer explain the phrase, "Red Dragon is so much like SILENCE OF THE LAMBS that it is like TEEN WOLF 2" to me? Here's Power Broker... who will singlehandidly exonerate Martha Stewart... Ok... well he won't, but he sold his stock in her early!
Power Broker here with a review of Red Dragon…
Had the esteemed privilege tonight of being a member of the first audience, or so we were told, to screen Red Dragon. Dont you wish you lived in New York City?
First off, let me commend Universal Pictures (yeah, I know you’re reading this smart guys) for choosing the Ziegfeld Theater on 54th Street in Manhattan for the test screening. It was my first visit to the relic, a throwback to when “going to the movies” was a unparalleled family outing. The theater seats so many, the line to get in reached out of sight. Compared to a recent screening of “Dirty Pretty Things” at a Loews on the Lower East side, well, there is no comparison. I hear there is a second screening of Red Dragon tomorrow night (Friday, Sept. 13), so if you live in New York City, you might want to get your ass down there.
On to the movie…
I really wanted to enjoy this picture. Like the rest of America, I was let down by Hannibal. But like watching an elegant train wreck in slow motion, we all turned up in droves to see what Ray Liotta’s brain looked like, how killer pigs factored into the equation, and how Darren #2 would fill Clarice Starling’s size 8 government issues. I suspect many ticket buyers just wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Over $200 million later, it didn’t seem to matter much in retrospect that Jodie Foster wouldn’t have Hannibal’s love child.
Red Dragon starts off on the right foot. Hannibal Lechter. Symphony concert. Dinner party. Mystery meat. Anthony Hopkins must love this role. Like Jack Nicholson wielding an axe, Hopkins just “gets” the whole crazy-and-loving-it shtick. Edward Norton’s Will Graham is teaming up with Lechter to solve a mysterious string of murders. If you want more details, read the book. Everything that’s up on the screen is in the book, Harry Potter style.
Red Dragon is so much like Silence of the Lambs, it’s almost on par with Teen Wolf II. Only, we don’t get a scared little upstart fibbie with something to prove, we get a scarred veteran detective with something to prove. Norton is one of my favorite actors, but he isn’t given much to work with here. He’s the straight man to Lechter, and later Ralph Fiennes’ Francis Dolarhyde, and basically underplays everything. The audience isn’t pulling for him. He’s neither scared enough (ala Starling) nor bold enough to get the audience behind him. Rather, I found myself twiddling my thumbs waiting for Hannibal to show up again.
Mind you, Lecter is again behind bars for 95% of the film, so it’s all one-on-one conversations across bullet-proof glass. He’s in the same cell as in Lambs, with the same nervous psychologist watching over him, which played well with the audience. Hopkins’ barrel-chested Hannibal Lecter drew a ridiculous amount of laughter. His quips no longer make you grin despite yourself but laugh out loud with nervous energy. He’s the Joker to Norton’s Batman, no longer a true villain but instead a guilty pleasure.
Fiennes’ does an adequate job. I was never really creeped out or scared of his character. A run-of-the-mill psychopath without a sense of humor. He’s one part Norman Bates, one part Kevin Spacey’s serial murderer in Seven, and one part psycho college roommate. Based on the gruesome murders he commits earlier in the movie, I expected something grander. Instead, we get the mumbly equivalent of tepid oatmeal. The scene at the Brooklyn Museum got the crowd going, though I think it had more to do with it being in the Big Apple.
The stand-out here is Emily Watson as Reba McClane. She does blind, with those beautiful, enormous eyes, so captivatingly, I found myself watching her during her scenes with Fiennes’ Dolarhyde. She was an interesting character, perhaps the boldest thing about this picture. I can’t wait to see what she does in Paul Thomas Anderson’s Punch-Drunk Love. I have to imagine she’ll hold her own with Adam Sandler, especially if Sandler does his scenes in the nude with a gigantic back tattoo and a hairlip.
Phillip Seymour Hoffman is such a ham, but you gotta love him for it. Unfortunately, as readers of the book know, his character has a brief amount of screen time. He makes the most of it as smarmy tabloid reporter Freddy Lounds.
Didn’t Harvey Keitel do this character before? Nah, I’m sure I’d remember it. Wait, was it in Sister Act? No, he was doing his bad guy character in that. Never mind.
Hey, I enjoyed the movie. But this is a mass appeal remake, virtually guaranteed to make more than was spent on it. Everyone seems to be on board to rake in the big pay check. Oh well. Maybe Thomas Harris will write a new book about Hannibal Lechter’s years as a failed stand-up comic. Just put him on the screen for two straight hours. That’s what we’re all there to see, isn’t it?
- The Power Broker, making back room deals and changing the landscape
Now for the greatest of all crime fighters... Sgt Kabukiman N.Y.P.D.!!! Kabukiman loved it!
Greetings everyone! I was one of the lucky 700 warm bodies that got to witness the sheer brilliance of Red Dragon this evening in NYC. Now I will warn you, I am not the most articulate person in the world but I had to share my feelings on this film with all of you whom I read daily. So here is the straight skinny...
I arrived at around 5:30 to a line that was already a good block from the Zeigfeld theater on 54th Street and you could feel that everyone in the crowd was extremelly excited for what we were about to see. After many cigarettes and an argument with some prissy rich bitch on line the doors finally opened and we were poured in by the literal hundreds into what I feel is the greatest theater in the city. Once the theater filled up and the chatter died down a gentleman appeared at the front of the theater thanking all of us for coming and explaining to us that we were THE FIRST AUDIENCE to see this film! I was stoked! I was squirming in my seat already!
After the obligitory "this film isnt finished yet yada, yada, yada" the lights finally dimmed and the opening credits started....the theater was erupting already, and this was just the credits. What ensued next were two of the most pleasurable hours of film entertainment Ive had since BROTHERHOOD OF THE WOLF.
Now, I am not going to give anything away but I just wanted to touch breifly on the performances and the picture itself. First off, the cinematography was gorgeous, everything flowed seamlessly from scene to scene and some of the dramatic jumps were so dramatic that the entire theater would leap from thier seats in unison. The score, though they claimed it was temorary, is classic Danny Elfman and the dialog and story follow surprisingly close to the book itself. The performances were stellar, especially Ralph Fiennes as the Red Dragon himself. Of course Anthony Hopkins stepped back in as Hannibal with apparently no difficulty at all and Ed Norton was excellent as the retired FBI agent Will Graham. On top of that the supporting cast all gave great performances and it was most enjoyable seeing Barny and Dr. Chilton back again for another go.
I know this is a pretty vague explaination but I seriously dont want to ruin this for those of you who are going to be seeing this film. I will say that in my humble opinion that it was by far the best in the series. It was a very compelling ride up until the moment the ending credits rolled. My hat goes off to the makers of this film and a big standing ovation for the actors who made this movie one of my favorites of 2002. Bravo.
Sgt. Kabukiman
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werd!
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1) Go to bed 2) Kill yourself
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1. Two bizarre incorrect spellings of 'Lechter' from different reviewers..mmmmmm.. dare I suggest plant(s)?????
2. As i've said before and will say again, Manhunter may have been a great film in the day but it's dated like my grandmothers dead cat and doesn't sit with SOTL or H (and misses the best bit of the book....the ending).
3. Did Brett Ratner introduce 'unknown' Ralph Fiennes to the audience?
4. This 'audience' if in fact they exist were told that they were the first to see this.....yet haven't we had a review from a test screening a few weeks back already.....someones telling fibs.
5. Wasn't it 'Teen Wolf Too'? -
have a field day with their reviews of Red Dragon.
Michael Mann will laugh his ass off.
Brett Ratner will be back doing Family Man/Rush Hour sequels for the rest of his career. Did he ever pay Spielberg back that $10k? -
...More eighties cheese than an episode of Miami Vice, loved Brian Cox though
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Sep 13, 2002 5:43:01 AM CDT
VERY bad acting in the trailer. It looked like a Mad TV sketch.
by cash bailey
I hope it's good, I really do, but I'd also love nothing more than to see Ratner fall flat on his fat, smug frat-boy face.
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Hehehe. This sounds like shit to me. Oh well they had me at the trailers.
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That was garbage, completely without a sense of genre or style. That isn't praise, my friend.
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I knew his was rather fat from the little animations but after seeing his cameo in the shit-fest that is The Faculty this guy his so fuckin huge that King Kong ain't got nuthin on him...
Harry man, why the funk don't u lose sum weight??? You'sa gonna be dead if you don't...I mean it man! I've seen this shit happen B4....Remember John Candy? Humour ain't a defence against being fat(and dead) and neither are the movies.....
Do something B4 it's too late! -
Why don't we all go out sum time and pump each others asses?
C'mon....It'll be fun....
It'll beat jackin off anyhow and remember....any hole's a goal! -
Your devastating invective has put us all in our place. Please, bless us with more of your witty and incisive gems. We hang on your every word like monkeys on a branch, or your mom on my cock (severely overrated, BTW -- I could get it better downtown for half the price and not have to put up with your incessant snoring from the next pillow over). I and everyone else here look forward to your next delicately crafted post.
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Not DevilCat.
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for me I ain't had one since last night so I'm off to do me one now....Yep its time for me to get rid of that stodgy, bunged up , bloated feelin by emptying my ass!
God I can't wait!
I'll talk sum more when i cum back..Oh Christ! It's a cumin!!! -
You really should learn to troll properly if you're going to do it. For instance, 'illiterate' should only be used when you're calling someone on poor grammar or spelling- inapprpriate usage like yours is just going to result in a 'rubber/glue' infinite feedback loop that could destroy us all. These are the big leagues, sunshine- take that weak-ass schtick back to Podunk.
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Thats much better, anyway on to the movie. I can't wait to see it. I only recently saw 'Manhunter' and its so fuckin dated!! It's high time for a remake and it's not long till its out....Yippeeeeeeee
i'll make sure I shit my ass out B4 I go in case I have to poo when watchin the movie and that would spoil my poo, thinking about the film I was missin, and It would BOUND to be a real smudgy one that the toilet paper rubbs around....not one that just drops outta ya ass. -
His clever plot to be portrayed by two different actors in four different movies was yet another example of his cunning. He has manipulated fan boys everywhere into acts of aggression at the mere mention of the words "Red Dragon." It's all moot anyway: the movie's been made, it's coming out, it'll suck ass, lots of people will suddenly convert to saying they always liked "Manhunter." And believe it or not, though Ed Norton and is hair are both miscast in this new flick, he is actually the same age William L. Petersen was when he made "Manhunter." Check the IMDB, it's true.
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how many poos Anthony Hopkins did whilst making Red Dragon? Do u think it was more or less than he did whilst making Hannibal.
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ohhhhh....(sniff.sniff) And I thought it was going to be a nice comment about me. Whats a scat video?
By the way HP - Go fuck your mother in the ass. I hear she really likes it, especially from her ugly son... -
...and "Red Dragon" is "Teen Wolf Too" does that make "Manhunter" "I Was A Teenage Werewolf"? And where does that leave "Hannibal"? "Transylvania 65000" perhaps? sk
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I mean, come on. It was a good movie, it is not a great movie, I don't care whether or not you like it better and think that anyone who doesn't has no intellect - who do you expect to impress with this? For Christ sakes it's JUST MANHUNTER - a fucking tight little serial killer movie - it's nowhere near Michael Mann's best film, its not the even the best serial killer flick of the last, what 15 years (Seven, Henry Portrait of a Serial, Silence of the Lambs - Jodie Foster stopped it from being a cartoon, Kalifornia - shit man the list goes on). Hey, I liked it too, I think Hopkins is a charicature, This isn't some woefully underappreciated film. Try to have a little perspective.
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Guess he musta taken my advice! Whaaaaahahhahahahnahahhahh..Go on me boy get it in there! Wahey!
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Saw some clips last night on Entertainment Tonight-Hopkins could give a sharpei a run for its money in the wrinkle department, so if Ratner is trying to convince us that HL is younger in this than the previous 2 movies, he'd better shave those forehead lines off in the editing room. And BTW, I loved Manhunter, and I'll go see Red Dragon, but I sure hope the movie is closer to the book than Manhunter was or the effort shall be a waste. A virtual copy will not succeed, and some of the dialogue already appears to be that (the sequence where Graham first visits Lecter to "get back into the mindset"). And there's no way Ralph Fiennes will be more awkward and physically imposing than Tom Noonan was in Manhunter, so forget that possibility...that guy is almost 6'7"!
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Sep 13, 2002 9:44:35 AM CDT
Hey everybody! Harry just stabbed himself in the neck with a mac
by bc1970
I told everybody in the Biggie/2Pac Talk Back already...
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It's author Thomas Harris' comment on tabloid journalism. Ditto for "Buffalo Bill" in SOTL. Come on, don't we have any sense for subtext? Must every point be beaten home with a blunt instrument? Paging Rod Lurie...
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Bring on this cast!
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I proved my point conclusively by using the tactic you suggested. Let me know when you're having the parade. Oh, and when did I ever say I didn't like Manhunter? I was just critiquing your trolling technique. Try a reading comprehension course.
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I think he gives us fans a bad name as people look at him and think ....Jesus - there he is - the typical film fan...
Christ what the hell does the guy eat to get like that!!?
Why dosnt he go on a friggin diet for cryin out loud!
Maybe it's cause he's ginger and just thinks ' ah what the fuck! If I slimmed down I'd just be some slim ginger guy - what difference does it make' -
You know, one of the fun things about AICN is the strange sense of, er, community it brings. I've been wandering around for almost 20 years now telling people, "Rent this movie, MANHUNTER. It has a Lechter that *really* creeps me out and a great story about a guy who gets so good at getting into the minds of the deranged that he weirds out himself." Then here I come, trolling through the talkbacks, and discover I'm not alone. The thing about Manhunter was the investigator's journey from screwed-up-but-on-the-mend to pretty-much-a-wack-job to screwed-up-but-on-the-mend again. Having said that, am I up in arms over RED DRAGON? Hell, no! If I remember correctly, IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT was a remake of THE FRONT PAGE. And it worked. Brilliantly. I'll see RED DRAGON, but I'll try to put MANHUNTER out of my mind before I do. Let's hope it's worth it.
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"Ooooh, Brian Cox is better than Hopkins." "Ooooh, 'Manhunter' is better than 'Silence of the Lambs.' "Ooooh, look at me, look at me, I like a movie that's not as popular as another, aren't I cutting edge?" It's the oldest fan trick in the book. Liking something with less mass appeal = exclusivity, the last safe haven for the sullen and socially inept fan. Well, whatever. "Manhunter" is decent. So is "Silence of the Lambs." "Manhunter" is dated because it was made before Michael Mann really knew what he was doing, when he was still on his Miami Vice kick. It's got some good stuff in it, though. But I won't say it's better than SOTL, because frankly, I just don't care if I look "cool" to a bunch of people on a talkback that I'll never meet.
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Ha Ha.....Trouble is it's probably true about the plane seats.
I feel mor e sorry for the guy going in the toilets after Harry. Harry must shit out about 3 times as much as the normal person....Ugh YUK! I just had a nasty image of a big fat ginger bloke pooing.... -
I was watching Manhunter in prelude to Red Dragon and it occurred to me that the only thing that really dates that movie is the score. If Manhunter got re-scored with Danny Elfman, it would be a different movie and we wouldn't need Red Dragon. (While they were at it, they could ILM Anthony Hopkins in place of Brian Cox and the studio would be happy and it wouldn't have cost as much as this remake). But it occurs to me that many old films that feel dated could benefit from a new score. Truthfully, the only films that sound dated are ones from the 70's and especially the 80's when they discovered "synthesizers." Real Genius was on the other night and nothing makes that movie feel dated than that synthesizer soundtrack. My vote is to just change the score to some of these movies instead of remaking them.
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I like Manhunter, it's a pretty cool film and nothing is going to change that, I like lots of other films as well and again, nothing is going to change that either. Films I don't like don't stop me from liking films I do like. If I don't like Red Dragon I will still like Manhunter, if I do like Red Dragon I will still like Manhunter (see where I'm going with this?) I just can't lose, why don't some of you think on this and then take a long hard look at yourselves and what you spend your time worrying about. You never know you might suddenly see some fucking sense.
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they got so many well read, well spoken, intelligent people to see the movie
sarcasm? -
Obviously these people only know Hopkins bland, almost paternalistic Lecter. Sad for them...
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The Front Page was remade as His Girl Friday with Cary Grant and Rosalind Russle. It Happened One Night had nothing to do with the Front Page. But your point is well made, nothng wrong with a remake IF it is well made. Most remakes made today are just lazy attempts to cash in on somene else's acheivements.
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Sep 13, 2002 1:23:09 PM CDT
HP, in my two years of frequenting AICN, you are the most pompou
by aquafresh
... and that's no small feat! So, lets see... we're supposed to believe that you are more intelligent than all of us because you like the film "Manhunter"? Not because, say, you fully comprehend the works of Dostoyevsky or have a working knowledge of astrophysics, but because you like MANHUNTER???? More than Silence of the Lambs??? Wow, you really are a genius. I would go on to insult you further, but I'm sure the sad, lonely life you lead is punishment enough.
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Sep 13, 2002 1:47:30 PM CDT
hp. you can Manhunter. I bet you have a copy of it on your shel
by inkymae
it's stylized 80's crap for anyone that enjoyed Miami Vice. Its very very dated and imho poorly adapted from the book. Cox doesnt play Lector as the Super intelligent super insane character that Hopkins does. It's just a letdown of a movie. Which is really sad because if you've ever read Harris, he writes like he's anticipating the movie adaptation.
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Sep 13, 2002 1:53:04 PM CDT
And the award for most unintentionally comical post of the week
by no. 41
HP!!!!
Quote: "Its nice to think you know something, but you are clearly mistaken here. Do people so clearly more intelligent than you scare you?"
Good one. Thanks for the laugh, although it doesn't appear you meant it that way. And I'm 'clearly mistaken?' On what basis? That you're a poser? Or else a troll? Or both a trolling poser? No, I'm quite CLEARLY not.
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Manhunter did NOT have the ending the book `Red Dragon' had. Its ending was much more bland and, also, nonsensical. The original novel has a great twist at the end and a much, MUCH better finale.
HP, PLEASE read the book!!! -
TimBenzedrine, thanks for the correction. I've really got to stop doing these things off the top of my head! It's been a long time since I've seen Manhunter, but weren't there two endings floating around for a while? ***spoilers ahoy, if you care*** The one I liked had the detective knocking on the door of Dolarhyde's next intended victims. The wife/mother answers, and we see the (from her POV?) in the doorway. He's tense, and he's weird, and for just a moment, we don't know if he's going to finish Dolarhyde's job for him. Then, something changes. He sheds off the psychotic persona he'd been inhabiting, and we see a guy who, once again, we'd be happy to call our friend. Wife/mother invites him in, and we know everything's going to be ok. It was a brilliant bit on the part of the actor, and it was the icing on the cake of a very good movie. On another note, Kelly's Heroes is dated, too, but it's still fun to watch.
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we are all entitled to our own opinions and ripping on people and/or attacking them for their opinions is...well, not the most becoming. you should keep to a subject that is more your speed and that you can talk positively about.
like angelina jolie's ass. -
She only has a fucking cameo?! She was the main reason I wanted to see this. It's good to know that she's involved in the climax though. She's one of the rare actresses who with just a few scenes, can make a memorable impression. However, I want to see movies that focus on her. Action, comedies and sexy, tasteless, nudity-filled erotic thrillers.
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hey anyone in nyc, how do you get the word on these types of screenings? lemme know - thanks.
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speaking of which, how did the Jerry Goldsmith score effect the film "Legend" after they released it on DVD and eliminated the Tangerine Dream score?
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I think it would be cool if in the new Hannibal Lecter movie there was a scene with Clarice Starling surfing down a stairway on a shield while shooting people with a little pistol.
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Sep 13, 2002 5:10:31 PM CDT
I get it now! How could I not see it?? This "HP" is MICHAEL MAN
by no. 41
It's the only explanation that fits. P.S., Michael, I really thought you were smarter than that. Don't feel too down--"Last of the Mohicans," "Heat," and "The Insider" were all pretty good. So you've got that going for you, which is nice.
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Is this supposed to be a thriller or Rush Hour 3? All these reviewers keep saying how funny it was at times or how often they laughed. By the way, I watched Manhunter last month on DVD and have a question. I seem to remember a part where Graham is talking about the Tooth Fairy as an adult and a child. He says something like " As an adult, someone should blow the sick fuck out of his socks." I've watched the video and HBO (dir.'s cut) over the years, but didn't remember seeing this on either dvd. Anybody help me out?
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I just hope the ending is not like the end of Manhunter (great flick.. the end of it is a POS).
I prefer the darker, grittier ending of the novel Red Dragon (which is my favorite novel). -
I just hope the ending is not like the end of Manhunter (great flick.. the end of it is a POS).
I prefer the darker, grittier ending of the novel Red Dragon (which is my favorite novel). -
In re. to the name thing. I read somewhere that the "Manhunter" spelling of the name was an intentional mistake to underline that Mann was not in fact adapting the book, but rather delivering a take on the story that he felt best suited the big screen. This is also true for the name change. I can't even keep up with the fucking for/against arguement, but I thought that 'hunter was excellent. If people are going to argue on the basis that Mann's interpretation compromises the integrity of the book, then Hopkins should also be dragged before the committee. His take on Lecter is pantomime bad guy that he might have gotten away with, if he hadn't done "Hannibal". That pile of shite underlined all the bad elements Hopkins brought to the role, camping it up for dramatic effect. Christ knows why. I don't have a copy to hand, but I think I remember Lecter being described as a small, unremarkable man that didn't exhibit any indications of being a nutter in his mannerisms. This is why Cox was superior to Hopkins. The part where he explains very calmly to the operator that he has no arms perfectly captures what Lecter is; an unremarkable psychopath. Couple this with the fact that Cox had to put up with coming from Dundee and I think we have a clear winner.
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I posted this on another board, but in case you guys didn't know: Roger Friedman on Fox News is reporting that Brett Rattner, I guess benefiting from "Red Dragon" buzz, is set to direct Warner's "Superman: Last Son of Krypton" starring---Keanu Reeves. I'm not joking, it's over at foxnews.com.
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Haven't read the book, but as I understand it, Tooth Fairy comes to the beach house and stabs Graham in the face, this part is completely omitted from Manhunter, in Red Dragon Tooth Fairy does visit Graham at the end and he gets a hold of his son, Graham proceeds to verbally antagonize his own son in the same manner Dolarhyde was by his grandmother. Then comes typical Hollywood thriller ending stuff with a little fighting and running and hiding and the wife comes in but in the end Dolarhyde dies and Graham recovers from some gunshots. The very last scene is a little prologue to SotL. Oh, and as far as how these screenings go, i got my invite from someone on the street up by Lincoln Center.
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The book ends with Graham in intensive care as far as I remember. I need to read it again.. but I'm 99% sure it ends in the hospital.
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The version with the "my heart bleeds for him as a kid, but as an adult ..." etc. is the version I recall.
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Sep 13, 2002 8:31:31 PM CDT
COCKS!!!!!............ Brian Cox that is.......... and some othe
by stitchpiete
I thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth for the hell of it, I could feel all the love floating round and wanted to be a part of it. Although Manhunter is one of my favourite films I was glad to hear they were gonna do a version closer to the original source material. I don't think the original looking dated is such a bad thing, I've always thought it was very reminicent of the time it was set, in both the atmosphere and style of the film. And yes Brian Cox's version of 'Lecktor' shits on the pantomime villian 'Lecter' Hopkins has sleepwalked through for two (and now possibly three) films. This is just my opinion so don't go off the fucking deep end for christsake. I can't see fiennes being much cop as dollarhyde either, I mean it was the role Tom Noonan was fucking born for! It fit him like a glove, fiennes is too short and too good looking. I'm from blighty so I'm not up on your sports rosters but couldn't you yanks have found some 7 foot brick shithouse basketball player to slot in and let him read his lines on autocue or some shit. Failing that, buy Noonan a facelift and draft the fucker back into rotation. Just a thought. Apart from that shit I'm eager to see what they've done with it. Honest.
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Unless you know someone with the company that arranges the screenings, you basically just have to be lucky. I happen to work next door to where they tend to stand (on the sidewalk) registering people. I make sure to pass by there, especially on Monday and Tuesday afternoons around lunch, to see what's going on. I've seen one other screening, though I could have seen Blue Crush if I'd wanted to (I didn't). For this one, someone at work was actually sent a couple passes. the Zeigfeld is so huge, they must have sent out so many more than they could sit. You have to show up around 6:00-6:15 in order to get in around 7:00 and the show goes on around 7:30-7:45. And yes, Ralph Fiennes and Brett Ratner were there.
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Yeah, that's the line too, but what scene is it from? I looked through both dvd versions and couldn't find it (unless I just skipped over it). It's driving me batty. Thanks.
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I hope its not that ill-timed and out-of-context wacky humor of the type that Luc Besson employs. He always irritates the living shit out of me with his inappropriate insertions of humor. At one moment you're watching serious drama and in the next moment he decides on a cartoonesqe/Jerry Lewis dose of base mania. Those French. At least Amelie was quirky from the beginning, so it didn't look so out of place when the narrative went on a French Fried comedy dip. Well I hope that Red Dragon is fucking hilarious.
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Good lord. You people need to go to counselors if you get all enraged about opinions. Oh, Manhunter is dated. Boo fucking hoo. So is Halloween, The Exorcist, Suspiria, Legend, Heathers, and ANY MOVIE THAT WAS MADE IN THE PAST. Let's go ahead and hate them and remake them because they were made in the past. I love Manhunter, and I damn well look forward to Red Dragon. If you don't look forward to Red Dragon, why the hell do you bother coming here? Quit complaining. Manhunter is a damn fine film and is loved by many. If you hate Manhunter, I really couldn't give a rat's ass. If you like it, I don't give a damn either. It's YOUR OPINION. Quit bitching and insulting each other with your obsessively lame gay and mom jokes and learn to live with the goddamn fact that you all are different. I liked all of Manhunter, including the In a Gadda Da Vida sequence, and I do look forward to seeing Red Dragon and Molly Graham blast the shit out of Ralph Fiennes like a fucking Osama Bin Laden doll. If you're so repressed in real life that you have to harass people on the internet, you're as sick and demented as Dolarhyde himself. Quit being so bitter and whiny and get over the fact that we all like different things; you'll be a happier person. I've learned that over the years. Do I think Anthony Hopkins looks like a joke in this one? Yes. Do I think Edward Nortons is horribly miscast in this one? Yes. Do I think Brett Ratner is a complete moron? Actually, yes. Am I complaining about that? No....It's a GODDAMN movie!!! Criminy!!! This isn't politics!! Nobody's lives are on the line! If you don't like it, YOU DON'T LIKE IT AND YOU DON'T EVER HAVE TO SEE IT OR SEE IT AGAIN! Life MOVES ON! They are remaking Tex Chainsaw Massacre and you don't even have a clue how pissed off I absolutely am about it being when I was about 8 in 1995 I saw it and it got me hooked into horror. Oh fuggin well. Both you Manhunter fans and Red Dragon fans need to calm down and worry about other things than a damn movie. You Red Dragon fans have your precious movie coming to theaters Oct 4, and you Manhunter fans have your precious DVD. I think that's pretty damn fair. And if you see someone post something offensive, IGNORE IT! It's that easy. I just laugh at people who insult me online....I'm sure they're big and buff on the web but they are petty thug fodder in real life.
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Sep 13, 2002 10:14:26 PM CDT
I want to see this flick for 3 reasons 1) a better characterizat
by tall_boy
that is why Red Dragon is something I'm looking forward to more than MANHUNTER. MANHUNTER is cool (in the gada da vita ending rocks) but its not Red Dragon. hope this one fills in.
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They should make a Red Dragon movie with c to d list actors, that would be interesting, imagine the cast: the guy that plays Mr. Bean as Hannibal Lechter, Paulie Shore as Will Graham, Steven Seagal as Jack Crawford, Corey Haim as Dolehryde, Corey Feldman as the sleazy journalist, and Tori Spelling as the blind chick. Yes, I do have to much time on my hands.
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hahaha that is hilarious, sleazy...that made my night....mr bean as Hannibal....just imagine Rick Moranis as Hannibal Lecter or Ed O'Neil..the possibilities are too funny.
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Hi El. I think the missing dialog is from a scene in a hotel where Graham is talking to his boss and another guy. Somewhere in there, the other two guys look at each other like Graham is freaking them out. BTW, does anyone happen to know where the physical location of the asylum used in 'Hunter is? I think it's an art museum in Atlanta, but I'm not sure.
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Sep 14, 2002 12:57:11 AM CDT
Why didn't they just remake Manhunter with the original cast
by mechaniferret
William L. Petersen is one of the most popular dramatic TV actors now. Dennis Farina is more recognizable now. Michael Mann is known for his gritty/realistic crime movies now. Tom Noonan is still a scary mutherfucker.(check out The Pledge...I pinched a loaf the first time I saw him) Brian Cox is YOUNGER than Hopkins..maybe not as notable, but Hopkins looks fucking stupid in the trailer. I have always liked Joan Allen and she is a wonderful actress.(she is probably more recognizable than Emily Watson as well) Oh well....I suppose Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan have cameos in this piece of shit?
MechaniFerret -
Ed Oneil, that would be funny to, I just thought of another one, instead of Tori Spelling as the blind chick, they could use Geri Jewell, remember her from Facts Of Life, she hasn't worked in a long time. Or they could use the whole cast of Beverly Hills 90210, the guy that plays Nat, the owner of the Peach Pit would have to be Hannibal, he's the only one old enough. Luke Perry would be Will Graham of course(normally you would want Jason Priestly, but he's indisposed right now), Ian Ziering would be the sleazy journalist, because everybody would like to see him get whacked, Shannon Doherty would be Dolerhyde, I know she's a girl, but come on, it's perfect casting. Brian Austin Green as Jack Crawford, and instead of Tori Spelling they could use Tiffani Amber Thiesen as the blind chick because she's so hot, but Tori could still show up as the wife that gets killed in the family video.
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Ed Oneil, that would be funny to, I just thought of another one, instead of Tori Spelling as the blind chick, they could use Geri Jewell, remember her from Facts Of Life, she hasn't worked in a long time. Or they could use the whole cast of Beverly Hills 90210, the guy that plays Nat, the owner of the Peach Pit would have to be Hannibal, he's the only one old enough. Luke Perry would be Will Graham of course(normally you would want Jason Priestly, but he's indisposed right now), Ian Ziering would be the sleazy journalist, because everybody would like to see him get whacked, Shannon Doherty would be Dolerhyde, I know she's a girl, but come on, it's perfect casting. Brian Austin Green as Jack Crawford, and instead of Tori Spelling they could use Tiffani Amber Thiesen as the blind chick because she's so hot, but Tori could still show up as the wife that gets killed in the family video.
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Ed Oneil, that would be funny to, I just thought of another one, instead of Tori Spelling as the blind chick, they could use Geri Jewell, remember her from Facts Of Life, she hasn't worked in a long time. Or they could use the whole cast of Beverly Hills 90210, the guy that plays Nat, the owner of the Peach Pit would have to be Hannibal, he's the only one old enough. Luke Perry would be Will Graham of course(normally you would want Jason Priestly, but he's indisposed right now), Ian Ziering would be the sleazy journalist, because everybody would like to see him get whacked, Shannon Doherty would be Dolerhyde, I know she's a girl, but come on, it's perfect casting. Brian Austin Green as Jack Crawford, and instead of Tori Spelling they could use Tiffani Amber Thiesen as the blind chick because she's so hot, but Tori could still show up as the wife that gets killed in the family video.
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An awesome film.
The only thing "dated" about it is the music, which is totally Miami Vice. Everything else is top notch. -
... that these four reviews are plants. They all rave about this movie with the same vocabulary, same misspellings, and same conclusions.
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Red Dragon is an intense book. I mean, we're dealing with a sick fuck who shoves mirror shards in the vaginas and eyes of a Brady Bunch in every state...this is a serious subject. To make it funny is just ridiculous...I absolutely loved Manhunter because it was serious about its subject. I didn't like the comedy in SOTL or Hannibal because it didn't fit. Comedy belongs in comedy movies...Red Dragon is one of the darkest books I have ever read and to make it silly is idiotic....IT was a damn good book with dark tones...the movie was..uh....silly...and that ruined it. I still say Tim Burton or Ridley Scott should have directed this.
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Sep 14, 2002 3:08:30 PM CDT
Silence of the Lambs Is One of the Greatest Horror Films Ever Ma
by nocureforfools
so who knows what bodes for Red Dragon? I'm assuming it's better than Hannibal (how could it not be), but not as good as Silence of the Lambs. the thing with Silence is that, running parallel to the investgation, was Agent Starling dealing with being a woman in a male dominated atmosphere. also; this sort of compelx mix of fear, contempt and desire that many men have towards women, rather than treating them as equal opposites (actually, the only male character int he film who does treat Starling with respect is Hannibal, albeit he takes the role of the evil-genius mentor, but he respects her ability and wants to see her become a powerful woman, he respects her and he loves her, but not in a covetous, contemptuous or fetishistic way). Hannibal was basically a Jason or Freddy Krueger movie and was incredibly disappointing. as a reader i enjoyed the novel Hannibal (whereas most fans of the series hated it), and saw it as more of like this almost victorian style gothic romance, but the film was beyond abyssmal. for instance: there were no corny one-liners in the book. anyways, from the looks of Red Dragon it seems to be more in keeping with Silence's mood. i hope it's good. it cerainly has the "starpower", but does it have the brain power? we shall see...
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I am very excited about seeing Red Dragon. People need to just calm down, watch the movie and take it for what it's worth. This is not going to be Saving Private Ryan, and if anyone is expecting that, then of course they will be disappointed. I want to see Anthony Hopkins. He could make anything watchable. And as Lecter, he just shines. He loves every minute of his character and that is what I love most about his role. Keitel is not the greatest actor working today, but he is also watchable in almost anything. Finnes and Norton are two of the best young actors working today. Both are always believeable and likeable. If you break down every film piece by piece, you are bound to find flaws. If you just watch the theatre go dark around you and wait for the ride to begin without thinking, you will have a blast. Bring on the bicep stew!
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I was just thinking of something, if you have Tori Spelling in it, you might as well just use the whole Beverly Hills 90210 cast. The guy that played Nat(owner of the Peach Pit)would have to play Hannibal, he's the only one old enough. Ideally you would want Jason Priestly as Will Graham, but since he's otherwise indesposed right now, you would have to go with Luke Perry. Shannon Doherty as Doleryhde, I know she's a girl, but come on, it's perfect casting. Ian Ziering would be good as the sleazy journalist, everybody would pay to see him get whacked. Instead of using Brian Austin Green as Jack Crawford, I would go with Tiffani Amber Thiesen, and rename the character Jacquline Crawford, she's just so friggin hot.
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doherty would look just enticing with a harelip.....imagine The Simpsons starring in Red Dragon....Homer as Graham....Marge as Molly...Bart as Willy....Snake as Hannibal Lecter...the Flanders as the Leeds...Principal Skinner as Francis Dolarhyde and Edna Krabapple as Reba and Skinner's mother as Grandma Dolarhyde...Mr Burns as Jack Crawford and Smithers as Dr Chilton...ooh..possibilities are endless...
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Pretty good, but Snake as Lecter doesn't work for me, it would have to be Sideshow Bob. Otherwise your choices were brilliant. Since were doing this silly casting thing, I was thinking of David Schwimmer as Superman, but then I realized that's not much more ridiculous than Keanu Reeves.
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what an eloquent speaker you are. i marvel at your ability to hurl insults without backing them up in any manner. it truly is the mark of a misunderstood genius (or moron, but "judge not lest ye be judged", right?) so, hows the self-esteem working for you? don't worry, things won't always be so bad for you. maybe one day you'll even kiss a girl! (your mother doesn't count.)
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Up until now I have considered all the superflous comments of HP to be a waste of time and energy. That was until he/she called that little pain in the arse, SLEAZY DINOSAUR, "a complete fucking idiot". Too true. Another thing, andrew "I'm only fifteen, look how well I write" tenebrae. If you want people to take your initial comments seriously, then you would be well advised not to encourage retards like SD to take up space with ridiculous "what if..." scenarios that weren't funny in the first instance. Waste of fucking time.
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I'm writing this from the prison library computer, as I am currently serving at her Majesty's pleasure for a "petty thug"- related crime.
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Sep 15, 2002 7:04:15 PM CDT
I Get the Impression That Only ONE of These "SPIES" Even Read th
by chewblacca
I still think the whole thing is unnessesary.I'll probably go see it anyway.
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Sep 15, 2002 10:36:13 PM CDT
"Manhunter" is automatically better because it had Chris Elliot
by elgyn6655321
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I completely agree with you that my comments were a waste of time, but EVERY COMMENT ON HERE IS A WASTE OF TIME. This whole site is dedicated to discussing pop culture, which by definition is a waste of time. But it's fun, I find it entertaining, ok, you didn't think my silly casting comments were funny, so what, move on to the next post. If your looking for serious discussions of issues of the day, maybe you should go to a political chat room, of course you'll just end up getting pissed off there when someone disagrees with you. Speaking of politics, what if they cast Red Dragon with politicians: Ken Starr as Hannibal Lecter. Bill Clinton as Will Graham(if your republican you can substitute George W Bush). Bob Dole as Jack Crawford. George Stephanopolous as the sleazy journalist. Ralph Nader as Dolryhde. And Paula Jones as the blind chick. Hey, thanks for the inspiration Jacki O
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Oh, I forgot, HP wasn't referring to me, he was talking to the poster that refers to himself as No Cure For Fools, they were having some kind of argument. I also happened to catch your earlier post that went on for half a page about why Michael Mann spelled Lecters name differently. Nice to know that your discussing something thats not a waste of time. Since I'm here I might as well give you some more silly casting ideas, I know how you love them........just kidding, hope you lighten up a little, you'll give yourself a headache.
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Sep 20, 2002 5:39:26 AM CDT
HP, everyone here obviously agrees that you're a complete as
by ronnie_dobbs
... and for once I'm going to have to jump on the bandwagon. Yes, MANHUNTER is a good movie. There are several truly disturbing scenes, which is much more than I can say for HANNIBAL. But SOTL is a better movie in every possible way, and, while I think Brett Ratner sucks donkey-dick as a director, there is such a thing as the remake that's better than the original (see Cronenberg's THE FLY and Scorsese's CAPE FEAR). Only time will tell about this one, but your being a pompous ass isn't going to change the end result.
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Sep 20, 2002 7:06:31 AM CDT
Does anyone else think test screenings are fuckin' stupid?
by ronnie_dobbs
What ever happened to the good ol' days when filmmakers were confident enough with their own skills that they were willing to just put a movie out without trying to ensure that it will please everyone? I, for one, will go see RED DRAGON without any prejudices based on the opinions of others, or my own opinions of MANHUNTER, SOTL, or even HANNIBAL, which is not as bad as most MANHUNTER/SOTL fans would have you believe. Besides, as has been mentioned before, those reviews are probably plants anyway.
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>
They couldn't do it right the first time, why give them another chance?
And c'mon, Cox as Lecter? What are you people on? Go read the book. Lecter's supposed to be campy, that's how it was WRITTEN.
Can't Manhunter and RD fans get along? My father loved Manhunter but is just as happy to be able to see RD.
Manhunter was as brilliant as Titanic was oscar-worthy. It's an independant 80's film with a Bladerunner soundtrack and some creepy camera angles. Nothing more, nothing less. You act like it's Casablanca or something.
To all you psycho Manhunter fans..
I read the books. Then I saw the movies. CAN YOU SAY THAT?
I don't think so. Half of you haven't read the book, and if you did, you did AFTER you saw the movie. You have no right to judge how realistic Lecter is in whatever movie because you HAVENT READ THE ORIGINAL TEXT TO COMPARE IT TO.
To all of you polite, unjudgemental Manhunter fans (far fewer of you, I'm afraid).. Manhunter was a nice 80's film. It was a nice stand alone movie, and RD is going to be the faithful adaption.
Seperate them and move on. Book readers want a faithful adaption. If you read the book, you'd know why. I want Dolarhyde, not 1/4 of Dolarhyde.
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