Cool News
First Review of the Script to Wolfgang Petersen's TROY!!! Plus additional horror regarding BATMAN VS SUPERMAN...
Hey folks, Harry here... Before we get to this absolutely terrific friggin review of David Benioff's screenplay for TROY which Wolfgang Petersen lept from BATMAN VS SUPERMAN when the project began reaching problems and second guessing of casting... along with executive juggling of the screenplay - including the latest report I hear that... Academy Award Winning Screenwriter Akiva Goldsman is script doctoring Andrew Kevin Walker's draft of BATMAN VS SUPERMAN... Ummm... Yeah.... So, rather than dwell on that, let's move on to something geniunely exciting... Wolfgang's film version of the story of TROY. This script sounds great, and if Wolfgang does this justice... it'll be another great historical epic to compare to Diesel's HANNIBAL -- Luhrmann's ALEXANDER THE GREAT with Leonard DiCaprio and the other big epics we've been hearing about. Being a fan of the epic film, all of this is very very exciting... and at least it isn't another bad superhero film from Warner Brothers... Whew... Meanwhile... Scamandrius here has turned in an absolutely breathtaking look, feel and critique to one of the most exciting projects to pop up in some time! I just hope Scamandrius graces us with more writing and analysis of scripts in the future!!!
Hey Harry:
Long time no talk. Anyway, since Troy is now on the
fast track at Warner, I thought you might be
interested in a review of the script. I've had it for
a couple of months now, and like it more each time I
read it. I really hope Petersen can pull this one
off. Anyway, for purposes of this review, call me
Scamandrius. Here it is:
What hath Gladiator wrought? The huge commercial and
critical success of that film in 2000 seems to
breathed new life into the once moribund historical
epic genre, which is potentially great news for those
of us who have longed to see the toolkit of CGI used
to illuminate the past as well as the future. From
Michael Mann's long-delayed Spartans at Thermopylae
drama Gates of Fire to the Vin Diesel Hannibal
project, every studio seems to have its own entry in
the Swords and Sandals sweepstakes. One of the most
promising of these is Warners' Troy, recently in the
news when Wolfgang Petersen backburnered Batman Vs.
Superman to do it instead. Which is ironic, since at
its core, the legend of the Trojan War is itself about
a battle between two superheroes. In place of the
Dark Knight and the Man of Steel, we have swift-footed
Achilles versus Hector, breaker of horses - an epic
contest of wills and fighting skill that forms the
basis of Western Civilization's first literary
masterpiece, The Iliad.
And while screenwriter David Benioff (A quick
googling of "David Benioff" reveals him to be a hip
young New York novelist whose first book is currently
being adapted to film by Spike Lee) does bring in the
rest of the Trojan War into his 175 page script (from
Helen's elopment with Paris to the final sack of the
titular city), he wisely kept the battle between these
two heroes at the heart of the story he tells.
On one side we have Achilles, a man literally born for
battle. As depicted here, he's the most skilled
killer of men who ever lived, but not particularly
interested in any political causes - only in achieving
glory on the battlefield so his name will outlive his
death. When Agamemnon sets out to raise an army
against Troy, Achilles couldn't care less about
retrieving Helen or advancing the Greeks' political
agenda. But the chance to be a hero in a war that
will be remembered for thousands of years? ThatÃs
another matter entirely.
But while Achilles' Bronze Age obsession with honor
and glory makes him an intriguing but rather remote
figure (until events in the second act turn his
motivation to the more straightforward one of
revenge), the script's other protagonist, Hector,
comes across as a much more modern and likeable hero.
A loving husband and father as well as a brave warrior
and brilliant military leader, Hector's only moment of
weakness comes when he doesn't force his brother Paris
to send Helen back to Sparta after they elope. A
besotted Paris presents Hector with the choice of
letting him keep Helen or send them back together.
And knowing it means his brother's certain death at
the hands of Helen's husband Menelaus, Hector
relents - a fateful decision for himself and his people.
And in one of Benioff's better touches, he actually
constructs a plausible motive for what always seemed
like a giant hole in the original myth - why the hell
didn't the Trojans simply send Helen back? The answer
here is that Agamemnon and the Greeks are more
interested in Troy's wealth and control of shipping
lanes than in getting Helen back.
Other characters are economically drawn but still
vivid on the page, even if they don't always track
with their mythic counterparts (which is fair enough,
given how much the original stories themselves
contradict each other. On the Greek side, Odysseus is
a cunning tactician and skilled orator, Ajax, a
gigantic, vicious brute, Meneleaus a drunken but
essentially decent guy. And as in the Iliad, the
Mycenaean king Agamemnon comes closest to being the
villain of the story, with his lust for power and
eagerness to rob his fellow Greeks of their glory
nearly leading his people to disaster (his claiming of
the captive Briseis sets off Achilles' disastrous
withdrawl from the front lines.)
On the Trojan side, old king Priam is appropriately
magisterial (and a plum role for a 70ish actor - has
anyone called Derek Jacobi or Ian Holm's agents?), if
a little too indulgent of his bad boy son. And Paris
fulfills his role as history's original lover, not a
fighter, yet somehow manages to remain sympathetic
throughout the carnage he unwittingly unleashes.
Refreshingly enough, Benioff doesn't go the
revisionist route of turning the female characters
into Xena-esque action heroines. Trojan women
Andromache and Briseis remain in supporting roles,
while still staying active and interesting. And while
Helen's thoughtfulness and self-loathing over her own
role in the deaths of thousands may strike some as
incongruously modern, it's actually true to Homer's
own original portrayal of her.
And while some Homer fans might balk at Benioff's
changes (a few of the famous heroes die very
differently than they do in myth), we still get most
of the highlights from the Iliad onscreen - the fight
over the captured priestess Briseis, Achilles sulking
in his tent ("like some guy from Chile," to quote The
Tick's Handy), the duels between Paris and Menelaus
and Hector and Ajax, Hector's heartbreaking farewell
to his wife and son, and finally, the duel to end all
duels itself, the fight between Hector and Achilles
outside the walls of Troy. And many of the best
scenes and lines are pure Homer - Hector's disavowal of
bad omens with his declaration that "to fight for your
country is the best omen," Achilles' refusal of
Hector's entreaties to fight fair, and Priam's ransom
of his son's mutilated body all come across as
particularly vivid.
But enough of the political background and character
details. How are the battles? At least in this draft
of the script, they're amazing. If Warner Brothers
isn't afraid of a hard R rating and Petersen employs
some decent master shots instead of chopping
everything up into indecipherable bits and pieces a
la Ridley Scott, this could set the new high water
mark for pre-modern combat in cinema that Gladiator
narrowly missed. There are three major setpiece
battles between the Greek and Trojan armies, all tense
and bloody but each sufficiently unique to avoid
repetition. Iliad readers might miss the lovely
little mini-biographies Homer composed for each hero
as he described their deaths in excruciating detail,
but what we get in the script is still an unflinching
depiction of what happens when sharpened bronze meets
human flesh and bone.
If Petersen pulls this off, this has the potential to
be one of the best duels in the history of cinema,
because unlike the tiresome hero/villain dichotomy of
so many Hollywood films, we care deeply about both
men, even while we know that one must die.
So what are the flaws with the current screenplay?
While a certain amount of compression of characters
and events is necessary with an event as huge as the
Trojan War, the story sometimes suffers by trying to
shoehorn in all the major plot points (abduction of
Helen, raising of the Greek Army, wrath of Achilles,
Trojan Horse). And after 50 pages of buildup, the
Trojan War itself seems to take place over a long
weekend rather than the ten years of legend.
Other touches feel like early draft problems, such as
a failure to foreshadow the otherwise wimpy Paris'
skill with a bow, so his Legolas-like feats of archery
in the third act feel out of the blue instead of set
up. Hopefully these will be addressed as the script
is polished on its way to production next year.
Of more concern is the fact that the very nature of
the myth means that the story peaks and feels finished
with the climactic Hector/Achilles duel, but the
screenplay goes on for another 25 pages to deal with
the legendary Trojan Horse and fall of the city. One
almost wishes the author had covered them with a brief
epilogue instead. And the actual ending (with a
clever borrowing from Virgil's Aeneid) that Benioff's
come up with here comes across as a bit feel-good for
what's Western literature's first and arguably
greatest tragedy.
Finally, one wishes for a bolder touch in places, such
as the depiction of the Greeks' and Trojans'
relationship to their gods, who were so active in the
Iliad but nowhere to be found in Benioff's screenplay.
While leaving Zeus and Apollo offscreen was probably
a wise touch, it would have been nice to see how the
characters treated them as an active if unseen
presence in their lives. And it also might have been
fun for Benioff to have woven into the screenplay some
of the recent archaeological discoveries regarding
Troy and late Bronze Age Greece (Troy's likely status
as a vassal state to the Hittite Empire and pawn in an
ongoing struggle between the Hittites and Mycenaean
Greeks, for example).
But these are all pretty minor quibbles with what's by
and large a confident, hugely entertaining screenplay.
If Petersen's skill at executing the story matches
his passion for the project, and Warner Brothers can
manage to not destroy what they loved about the script
in the first place during the development process
(never a given in Hollywood, unfortunately), this
could be one for the ages. Which is only appropriate.
After all, it was German adventurer and businessman
Henrich Schliemann, who with his excavations at
Hissarlik on the Turkish coast near the end of the
19th Century revealed the physical reality of Troy to
the world. Could it be that another German at the
dawn of the 21st is about to do the same for the
legend of Troy? Fingers crossed.
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+ Expand All
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what in the fucking name of fuckity-fuck-fuck is AKIVA 'script molester' GOLDSMAN doing "script doctoring' 'batman vs superman'? fucking hell, man, i'd rather have dr GIGGLES attending to my rewrite needs than this smug fuckwad! stay home and sodomise yourself with your oscar, ya knob!
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This is the best news I've read on this site in weeks. It's the worst idea in the world, hope to god it never sees the light of day.
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Aug 16, 2002 9:19:17 AM CDT
Nice report, sounds interesting....and is this Hartnett Superman
by coatsy uk
...."FUCK WARNERS, FUCK THEM UP THEIR STUPID ASSES"
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Screw the "Batman vs. Superman" movie. The ONLY good news I've heard about it at all was the choosing of Peterson as director; I assumed he would prevent it from becoming a big, soulless, overly-CGI'd, ultra-loud but filled with air, empty experience. Do we really need another of these monstrosities unleashed upon the world? What they need to do is focus on that "Batman: Year One" flick!
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...wasn't the whole point of the Trojan War that it lasted ten goddamn years and that it was this horrible monster epic that involved every Greek and his mother? Won't compressing it into a two-hour movie (alright, two-and-a-half to three... god, they're getting long) make it suck? Why not just go ahead and "adapt" the fucking Encyclopedia Britannica while you're at it? Jesus Christ, if you want Trojans, read the Illiad or buy a box of condoms.
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Aug 16, 2002 9:31:48 AM CDT
Akiva Goldsman? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
by morty viventi
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i have a really good idea for casting. they should get The Rock to be Hector and get Hulk Hogan to be Achilles.
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Who's the geek who said it was Kiefer Sutherland....it's actually Ron Eldard...sheesh, cant you tell the difference?
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Jude Law for-wait, wrong film.
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Aug 16, 2002 9:39:30 AM CDT
If anyone from Warners is reading this -- HOW CAN YOU BE SERIOUS
by crash_davis
I don't usually write any comments in the talkback section of this site, but this angers me. This really, really angers me.
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Aug 16, 2002 9:40:31 AM CDT
Dammit, Warner Brothers, didnt you motherfuckers learn ANYTHING
by xthecrovvx
This is tantamount to hiring Gus Van Sant to direct a new remake of North by Northwest...::sigh:: i have bad feelings about this...they cant get the casting right, they're hiring The Man Who Nearly Killed Batman to polish the script....now all we need to know is that Hulk Hogan will be playing Lex Luthor, and the circle of shit will be complete. Revolution is my name.
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Is that I saw a banner ad that says that Apollo 13 is coming to the Big Big SCreen (Imax). I have'nt been excited about a banner ad since, well, ever.
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Any chance of a decent DC comic book hero being turned into a watchable character has gone down the pooper. Akiva the Jackass is responsible for raping the mythos of Batman with his unbearably poor writing skills and his focused attention on, "I know this has potential but what can I do to put my spin on it?" Listen up execs from WB there is a reason these American Icons have thrived for decades and have become part of our culture, great stories that talented comic book writers churn out monthly. Granted not all of them are 100% but c'mon who the hell wants to see another film by the guy who wrote all those crappy Mr. Freeze lines, screwed with Bane (arguably one of Batman's greatest foes), and had Alicia Silverstone written in as Batgirl. Obviously, Akiva's method for developing stories is watching the X games or whatever is currently "in" and exploiting it to all hell. What's next, Batman driving a slammed Civic with nitrous since it is the "in" thing? Can you imagine the Batmobile with a booming system with a tricked out paint job. I bet Akiva has. How many times has this guy gotten on his knees to get the "job done". For the love of God, PLEASE have a real writer who respects the history of the characters write it.
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here are some brilliant casting ideas that I'm sure the ever brilliant Akiva Goldsman can appreciate:
Batman: Mike Tyson
Superman: Robin Givens
Lois Lane: Camren Manheim
Perfect casting for the like of Akiva Goldsman. With that marvel of a job he did on Batman and Robin who can doubt that this will be the greatest cinematic masterpiece of all time. -
I agree with a lot of people in this talkback. Batman vs. Superman has sounded pretty lame from the beginning. Year 1 has always been a better idea - it's a Frank Miller book. How can you fuck that up (don't answer that)? If they want to combine the heroes - how about The Dark Knight Returns - which is the REAL Batman vs. Superman story. Oh, but what does it matter, after Daredevil bombs the studios are probably going to figure this whole comic book thing is over.
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F Warner brothers anyway. According to Yahoo, the whole project is back in limbo. (remove space between news? and tmpl to read)
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news? tmpl=story&u=/eo/20020813/en_movies_eo/10386 -
I'm not one to incite others to suicide, but Akiva Goldsman: if you read this post, then please just do every movielover on earth a massive favour. You are without a doubt the least talented, most overemployed, lazy screenwriter pressing buttons on the Hollywood cookie cutting machine today. The thought of you raping yet another Batman movie in the ass is enough to make me cry myself to sleep tonite... and that Oscar ain't fooling anyone either.
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That Michael Mann one sounds retarded, the Vin Diesel one doesn't sound that bad, but this one sounds like something I've been waiting to see ever since "GLADIATOR" came out (all-time favorite movie). I mean we have Achilles and Hector fighting (pure excellence there), then we have the Trojan War with blood splattering everywhere, complete carnage, complete gore and brutality everywhere, and then we have Helen of Troy and the man who lusts for her night and day Paris. This sounds like it's going to be a hit. Let's just hope Warners Brothers makes it an R and not some PG-13 because it belongs as an R, so does the "Hannibal" saga with Vin starring.
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You know who's hot right now? Vin Diesel. That post about Batman driving a tricked-out ricemobile is a brilliant idea. Vin's edgy, like Batman. Can't you just hear him intoning "I need NAHSS, Alfred, I got to have NAHSS." As for Superman, I know a certain teen heartthrob who's been wanting to play a superhero for a long, long time...
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You just watch. Every Jr. Exec at WB is gonna want to stick a finger in this pie, and by the time they're all done it'll look like a big red, yellow, blue, and grey mess that no one wants to see. Just like the whole Superman Lives debacle. Mark my words. sk
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That's the gayest rendition of The Iliad I've ever heard. Trying to make it into some realistic hisorical war, like the tedious Gladiator. It's THE fucking Greek myth for fuck's sake. All the gods take sides. It could have been an historical/ superheroic battle specatcular! It would have made Attack Of The Clones look like House Party 2 (or 3). Hera, Zeus's wife, distracts him by shagging him atop Olympus. The gods take to the Earth and go one-on-one, they call on monsters from the sea. It could have been like DC's Kingdom Come. The very reason Helen is kidnapped is because Aphrodite gives Paris the reward of the most beautiful woman, in a goddess beauty contest. And what about Odysseus? There's an epic sequel called The Oddyssey, packed with gods and cyclops and sirens. Equal if not better than The Illiad. What are they gonna do with that? Turn it into a boat ride visit to a one-eyed big guy's place? Harryhausen knew his shit. People want gods and monsters in their Greek epics. Anyway, I wouldn't trust a review written by some fucking pretentious monkey who thinks the Wooden Horse should be shovelled into an epilogue. Yeah, it's a pretty unspectacular boring bit. Can't imagine that looking any cop. No wonder he liked Gladiator with it's bog-donkey end. What a tit.
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could crank out a better script then Akiva Shitsman. Hey Warners, do you seriously NOT want any of my money? You know, the money that I would spend to take me and my girlfriend opening weekend, another ticket or two for showings in the weeks following, the couple of bucks from an (undoubetedly) overpriced score soundtrack and the inevitable DVD.
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And while I'm on the subject, didn't he 'write' Lost In Space too? Never mind... I agree that after DareDevil (surely) turns out to stink worse than Ben Affleck's sheets, Hollywood will suddenly decide that comics aren't the Holy Grail to save it after all, and we might actually see something original on our screens. Please Warners, do not make B Vs S now that its only grounded force (Petersen) has been replaced by this smug, round-faced Goldsman fucknut!
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The Gods and their relationships are half the fun of the Illiad. Does Achilles still battle the river? Does Diomedes still fight the Gods and wound Aphrodite? With CGI the Gods could look fantastic. It is to Homer's credit that the mortal characters can stand on their own without the Gods, but certainly they add alot to the story.
And let me guess--we see Trojan hero Aeneas making his escape with a epilogue text that says he will found a little colony in Italy that one day becomes the imperialist Roman Empire--which in turn inspired dictators through the ages right up to Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. Yeah--that's a happy ending alright. Dont worry about war because there are always survivors who can sire more warriors.
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Aug 16, 2002 10:57:05 AM CDT
Wow! That wouldn't be the ACADEMY AWARD(c)-winning Akiva Gol
by trav mcgee
Said very sarcastically. Anyway, lest we forget, that IS the bastard's Full Resume Title now. Which is a stomach-churning thought. I half-heartedly propose that that's the only way he be referred to now, until it ceases to have any meaning. As for "Troy," hell, he sold ME a ticket.
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Aug 16, 2002 11:17:58 AM CDT
I think the sequel should be called Troy 2: Hypertroy and Hulk H
by chaffro
"This time, we'll build a bigger horse, brothers."
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Hollywood, as always, is going to take a fresh, rejuvenated genre and run it into the ground; much as they did with horror (parodies?) after Scream. I mean this is ridiculous! TROY sounds good, depending on who gets cast. But Vin Diesel as Hannibal, Leo DiCrapio as Alexander!! I wanted these to be good movies not movies involving a guy that couldn't act his way out of a speeding ticket, and a guy who uses every film as a chance to run his fingers through his hair, look in the camera and say "Ooh, look I'm so dreamy." That is absolute crap casting. I'd rather see Randall from "Clerks" as Alexander!
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First, aside, being the first post, thanks to Harry for putting up this site, one of the top sites--- thank you!!!
Back to "akiva goldsmith"--- I agree with every single negative thing written about this creature from hell bent on destroying all comic book and sf creations....and this might be an aside for Harry...since you do have some clout via this website...is there ANYTHING that can be done to state without a doubt that NOBODY wants this man near a superhero film and that it's a clear warning for fans to stay away?
For the love of any superhero mythos that may be left, please respond and let's keep this strange creature named Akiva away from all things heroic! -
...then it will blow everything away. I mean EVERYTHING. Spider-Man, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, The Matrix...it may all very well pale in comparison to a grand vision of the Trojan War. What interests me is the characters: Hector, Achilles, Paris, Helen...such potential for drama, for pathos. Pour all the money you can into this, WB. It will be worth it.
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"Here comes Alexander/he's a bezerker!"
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Um, one for whatever is not a great track record. 'Hideaway' sucked, 'Sleepy Hollow' sucked especially on the script level, 'Brainscan' sucked, and the less said about '8MM' the better. Sure, 'Seven' is better than 'A Beautiful Mind', better in every way, and, sure, nothing else Goldsman has done has been any good at all [note: I hated 'A Time To Kill', I know a lot of people disagree]. I'm just saying, neither of them has a particularly good track record.
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Fancy finding you here.... I could get very excited about "Troy," though a million things could go wrong, beginning with the casting. Hector was always a favorite of mine, though I hope the script will not merely villify Agamemnon. I do love those conflicted types...and Agamemnon is about as conflicted as they come. Of course, I'm a bit prejudiced because someone dear to my heart once played him on stage, and very commendably. If they do "Troy" right, it might make up for Jude Law dropping out of "Alexander," the man he was born to play - in fact, he's the ONLY actor I've ever seen who could pull of Alexander. Hmm... Jude Law as Hector. There's a happy thought.
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Aug 16, 2002 12:51:35 PM CDT
Go ahead with your Troy movie Wolfy but don't count on Josh
by steal_dragon
Does he actually expect that they would wait for him to do Troy first and still be in the mood for this rotten idea Batman VS Superman movie, please. They are going to do a Nicolas Cage with Superman and Sandra Bullock with Wonder Woman when the director and other crew would take so freakin long with the movie and then they get offered something better and leave. Then he would have to take more time looking for actors and he would take so long that the movie is going to slip into Development Hell then it would be dead. Nice move Wolfgang.
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Aug 16, 2002 12:53:18 PM CDT
Best script review ever posted on this site, hands down.
by radagast t brown
Scamandrius, I salute you. If the film producers know (or care) as much about their source material as you do, then Troy could be an LOTR-level event in terms of fealty to old blind Homer's vision. But I doubt they do, and I cannot look forward to another Gladiator-style hackfest. Harry, please invite this reviewer back again and again.
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Aug 16, 2002 1:11:36 PM CDT
How could this film go from being so hot to being dead so quickl
by blue devil
That's the only explanation I can think of for this project's dismal outcome. Why hire Petersen if you're going to have a hack like Akiva Goldsman rewrite the script? Because WB is just attaching names to this project, not seriously working on it. Why hire two foreigners to play our heroes? Again, let's just attach some names. Warner is trying to get some velocity on this project hoping that that velocity will eventually cause this film to happen. No, Warners, it won't. Remember, what made the original Superman so successful was that Richard Donner was allowed to make HIS Superman. It was Donner's vision through and through. If you're not going to allow another director that kind of control over the project, don't bother making it.
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Aug 16, 2002 1:19:13 PM CDT
As the modern reincarnation of the Divine Achilles...
by john_howlett_jr
...I think Wolfgang Petersen should hire me as this film's creative consultant. I mean, sure, Homer's Illiad was great literature, but it was a watered-down and fictionalized adaptation of my past life story. For example, my best friend Patroclus and I were NOT gay lovers. We were really close friends since childhood, but not THAT close. And I was not a ladiesman. According to Greek myth, I pretty much had sex with and even empregnated every beautiful maiden I ran across. The rumor mill of Ancient Greece was worst than the modern-day tabloids. They made me out to be a bronze age James Bond. The truth is that I only made love to two women in my entire anterior life: Penthesilia and Deidamia. Penthesilia (an Amazon princess at the time) and I had a summer fling the summer before the Trojan war began, and I eventually ended up killing her upon the battlefield ten years later (she had become the Queen of the Amazons). Deidamia and I first met on the island/kingdom of Skiros at the age of fifteen (I was a draft dodger). We eventually got married and had a son, whose birth I did not witness for I was already gone at war at the time. I always remained faithful to her, as I have always remained faithful to her modern reincarnation. I hope this post embellishes my unwarranted reputation.
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Aug 16, 2002 1:19:33 PM CDT
As the modern reincarnation of the Divine Achilles...
by john_howlett_jr
...I think Wolfgang Petersen should hire me as this film's creative consultant. I mean, sure, Homer's Illiad was great literature, but it was a watered-down and fictionalized adaptation of my past life story. For example, my best friend Patroclus and I were NOT gay lovers. We were really close friends since childhood, but not THAT close. And I was not a ladiesman. According to Greek myth, I pretty much had sex with and even empregnated every beautiful maiden I ran across. The rumor mill of Ancient Greece was worst than the modern-day tabloids. They made me out to be a bronze age James Bond. The truth is that I only made love to two women in my entire anterior life: Penthesilia and Deidamia. Penthesilia (an Amazon princess at the time) and I had a summer fling the summer before the Trojan war began, and I eventually ended up killing her upon the battlefield ten years later (she had become the Queen of the Amazons). Deidamia and I first met on the island/kingdom of Skiros at the age of fifteen (I was a draft dodger). We eventually got married and had a son, whose birth I did not witness for I was already gone at war at the time. I always remained faithful to her, as I have always remained faithful to her modern reincarnation. I hope this post embellishes my unwarranted reputation.
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Aug 16, 2002 1:32:02 PM CDT
Hey guys! Let's sneak a Trojan Horse through the gates of Wa
by regis travolta
We'll all be hiding inside the big wooden horse with Harry as our leader. Once safely inside the studio gates we'll slip out of the horse late at night and run wild raping and pillaging and burning all their crapy scripts and substituting our really good scripts in their place. And to quote Tony Curtis who starred in an old English sword fighting epic when he was fresh from New York with his Brooklyn accent, "Yonduh lies da castle of my faddah da king."
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Leelee Sobieski would make a perfect Helen. I swear if they cast some 30 year olds as Helen and Paris its going to suck hard.
Achilles: Christian Bale
But you watch when Warner Brothers gets through Paul Walker will be Achilles, Vin Diesel will be Ajax. Freddy Prince Junior will be Paris. James Van Der Beek as Hector....its inevitable. -
So the Trojan War was real, right? So they should make a genuine realistic epic based on it, instead of the awesome all-against-all god-busting battle royale that was Homer's Iliad? The balls-to-the -wall story that has endured for millenia? Something that isn't some trundling (factually baseless) war flick, but in fact, a myth? A legend. Flickhead, you're really are a tedious fucker. Why don't they go and do the Chinese myths next and get Monkey to be played by, erm, a monkey. Walking around picking his arse and pissing into his own mouth.
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Troy sounds very exciting and Petersen is a great choice for it. But whichever talkbacker complained that Michael Mann's "Gates of Fire" project soudns stupid needs to get their heads out of their asses and read a book every now and then. "Gates of Fire" is as exciting a story as the "Troy" story....and it's writer is great. The only problems with the project is the possibility of George Clooney being attached to it. His only contribution to such film would be his old Doug Ross ceaser haircut.
So for those of you not in the know, here's the story summary....Thousands of years ago, Herodotus and Plutarch immortalized Spartan society in their histories; but today, little is left of the ancient city or the social structure of this momentous culture. One of the few antiquarian marks of the civilization that has survived lies scores of miles away from Sparta, at a narrow Greek mountain pass called Thermopylae. It was here that three hundred of Sparta's finest warriors held back the invading millions of the Persian empire and valiantly gave their lives in the selfless service of democracy and freedom. A simple engraved stone marks their burial ground. Narrated by the sole survivor of the epic battle - a squire in the Spartan heavy infantry - Gates of Fire is a depiction of one man's indoctrination into the Spartan way of life and death, and of the legendary men and women who gave the culture an immortal gravity. Culminating in the electrifying and horrifying epic battle, Gates of Fire weaves history, mystery, and heartbreaking romance into a literary page-turner that brings the Homeric tradition into the 21st century. -
Some of the comments I just read are amusing and true (ie AKIVA GOLDSMITH). The only part that gets me pissed of about this Batman vs. Superman mess is the hype machine that Warner and Wolfgang poured behind IT (exaggerated features on CNN, MTV, and EW) plus the casting rumors that were blown way out of proportion only for Wolfgang and Warners to shelve the whole idea so that they can have a pie in the WAR EPIC genre. That's BULLCRAP. When will BATMAN and SUPERMAN ever get some decent respect from Warners and when will Warners learn that these are two of the WORLDS FUCKING BIGGEST FRANCHISES.
My personal opinion on casting (I know I will be electronically IMPALED by talkbackers for this): Josh Hartnett as Superman, and Christian Bale as the Dark Knight.
That's my two cents, if it matters! -
Aug 16, 2002 2:30:15 PM CDT
A brief rant that you've all heard before by a gazillion dif
by village idiot
It seems that a talkback about a story that was primarily about TROY has been hijacked into yet another discussion about SUPERMAN VS BATMAN. If anybody from WB is reading this, what does this tell you about what the fanboy demo cares about? Now that SvB is back in development hell, perhaps this will be an opportunity for calmer heads to prevail; to allow WB the vision to see what these properties, especially Superman need: The LORD OF THE RINGS treatment (or the original SUPERMAN THE MOVIE treatment). That is, get a solid script that respects the source material like a mutha, bring in a solid director who lets the project be guided by the material and not his own personal style, hire an unknown or virtual unknown for the title character, and throw money at it. But who am I kidding. We're going to end up with the "new" Superman, script doctored by thousands under the eye of [groan] Jon Peters, directed by McQ, starring Leonardo Di Caprio. And it will suck.
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For the talk backer that bashed Walker, don't put much weight in any screen writer's early efforts. Not only are they still learning their craft, but they will do anything for money. Yeah, Hideaway and Brainscan sucked, but Walker has got better and better. Walker is best known for Se7en, but he has also been an uncredited script doctor for Fight Club, The Game and Stir of Echoes. Opinions are split on Sleepy Hollow. I thought it was avarge -- some liked it, some hated it. As far as 8mm goes, in case you were unaware, Walker and Schumacher had a falling out over that movie. Schumacher changed elements of Walker's script, causing him to walk out on the project. I put more blame on Schumacher than Walker for the messy 8mm.
Every screen writer makes a bad movie, but Goldsman's Batman & Robin is easily the worst movie ever made. Sure Walker has written some bad movies, but none are to the level of Batman & Robin.
Speaking of Batman, Jeph Loeb (The Long Halloween, Dark Victory) wrote several movies before becoming the master Batman writer he is today: Teen Wolf (classic 80s), the story for the horrible Teen Wolf Too and Burgler, the sticking p.o.s. starring Whoopi Goldberg. So like I said, even the best writers make a few stickers. But Walker has better movies to his credit than Goldsman, end of story. -
Aug 16, 2002 2:37:57 PM CDT
HEY GANG , I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU , BUT I THINK SUPERMAN V.S
by pogopope
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Hey. I've never posted on here before but I just had to vent a little. I am a huge batman, superman fan and I'm so dissapointed that Marvel is there making some of the best comic book movies ever, and the WB can't even decide on what movie to make. I'm just tired of the rumor mills and the false hope that keeps getting churned out about this franchise, as well as the Batman franchise and the Superman one.
Thanks. That's it. -
It's strange that the reviewer should mention Legolas because Orlando Bloom will be perfect for Achilles. (I never liked Hector; he was always depicted as the underhand one.)
Orlando, where is your agent? Stop attending fashion shoots and work on your career, man! And I know you always wanted to play Superman so in case S vs B ever gets made, start pumping some iron.
PS: This film may be going head to head with ROTK and Alexander with frikin Leonardo the Great. I wonder which will come out on top. -
It just occurred to me that Homer (whoever he/they was/were) produced the first known spin-off. Funny that such a peculiar, commercially-driven idea should go so far back into literary history. Probably signifies something. Not sure what. Incidentally, don't sweat the "ten years" thing too much - as I recall, the Iliad doesn't really get going until at least nine years in.
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Or at the very least a cyclops or some giant crabs. This sounds like a real snoozefest, the sort you'd find on A&E or the History channel. The impression I get is pompous, expensive, 3 hours long and dry as dirt. My ass is burnin' already. They've taken a great story and sucked out all the fantasy. Crikey, some of that read like the Encyclop
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Alright, I've already posted once on this topic and I'm being forced to post again. I never do that! But would everyone quit bitching about Akiva. I'm not defending him, but Jesus do I need to go out and buy everyone some cream to soothe your inflamed vaginas? NEWSFLASH: The Batman series sucked after the first one! The only good thing about the second movie was Michelle P-P-Pfeiffer is leather. And if that's all it was good for they might as well have cast some bimbo...with great big ol' breasteses. As for Troy, I'll believe it when I see it. WB isn't destined to fuck it up, they did the Matrix after all. But if they cast Vin Diesel or Paul-Don't-Call-Me-Keanu-Walker or Marky Mark or Freddie Prinze, JR. then yes the movie will be akin to getting a BJ from a prostitute that could suck a Taxi driver through immigration- entertaining until you realize you have to pay for it.
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I just can't believe it. S vs B is a crappy idea in the first place ... it's like Knight Rider against the A-Team, Steve Austin against Jamie Summers, GOOD GUY vs GOOD GUY !!!!!!!!!! FOLKS, THAT'S UTTER BULLSHIT.
For I know Dark Knight Returns, I know there's a way to pull this type of story off anyway, but they don't do that... they are about to "invent" a new reason why 2 perfectly "on the good side" characters battle against each other. Btw, Batman has NO chance on that one...
And it's getting worse day by day. Hartnett as Superman ... ridiculous. Why not Adam Sandler or Jason "Jim" Biggs as Supie and Stifler as Batman ... holy macaroni.
And there's no end to the debacle:
AKIVA GOLDSHIT?? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING?? He ruined 2 previous Batman films and did only hack jobs with all his other "works" and those son of a bitches at Warners choose HIM to "polish" the script??
DO THEY HAVE ANY BRAINCELL LEFT???
If any exec is reading this, think about that: Supie vs Bats is a pure FAN - FILM. No moviegoer apart from FANS will go see that thing. And they all know about asshole Akiva and the casting shit that's happening right now.
You just don't listen, do you?
We are those who should give you money, fuckers AND WE WANT SOMETHING FOR IT!!!!!
I'm outta here. Fuck ya. -
Is there ANYONE even remotely interested in seeing this ?
As a kid I recall seeing on TV lots of dubbed Italian sword and sandal epics, and this script doesn't sound any better than that to me.
As someone already stated, forget this crap and get on with making Gates of Fire which if done right will totally rock.
Plus I wouldn't start talking about one of the greatest ever battle scenes until you have seen the 50 minute battle of Helm's Deep planned for the Two Towers.
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Did anyone catch Antonio Banderas a couple of weeks back on the Daily Show? He had a beard and a caesar haircut, looked VERY Mediterranean, and I think he would make a fantastic Hector. Might just be the breakout role the man needs to get critical acclaim to match his (as of yet unwarranted) geek icon status. As for Achilles, I need to bone up on my Greek mythology...is he supposed to be big? Or just invincible, despite being somewhat small? Is he a teen, 20s, or 30s? If anyone knows, please respond in this thread, and hijack it back from the superhero geeks who want nothing but to bitch.
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Don't go saying it's going to be the greatest battle on film until you actually SEE it. It may very well be amazing. It may also very well be cut up all to shit in the editing room until it's completely incoherent and induces epileptic fits in anyone without an MTV-addled attention deficit disorder. Like the Mines of Moria sequence. Fifty minutes of war, edited once every quarter of a second? God, I hope not. Show some Lean, PJ. Give us an epic battle that we can SEE. Use some long takes, let the action be choreographed, not put together in the editing room. Don't try to trick us into thinking we're seeing carnage, SHOW us the battle. Let our eyes roam, and find the detail. Don't fucking cut every quarter of a second so that we can't make out what in the name of fuck is going on! (This goes for you too, Wolfgang, don't pull that Michael Bay shit on TROY, or I'll be very sad).
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Firstly, the Trojan war probably was real, in that Troy was a real town and at one stage in its history (1250-1150BC) it was attacked. The Hittites refer to Alaskundus of Wilusa fighting at the battle of Kadesh, this could be Paris (surnamed Alexander according to legend) of Ilius or Ilium, another name for Troy. They have recently found that the city of Troy was bigger than previously supposed but the war almost certainly didnt last ten years and Hecotr and Achilles are unlikely to have existed.
Turning to casting, I hear Brad Pitt is interested in Achilles, so why not set him against Viggo Mortensen as Hector, plus Alan Rickman as Agamemnon, Gary Oldman as Odysseus, Brendan Gleeson as Ajax, Ian Holm as Priam, Derek Jacobi as Nestor, Timothy Spall as Menelaus, Leelee Sobieski as Helen and Rupert Everett as Paris -
Is anyone else so used to saying DeCrapio that they can't remember how to pronounce the kid's real name? Kind of like Ben Craplick. Isn't that one Affleck? Um... Oh, well. How come good actors don't get these kind of roles anymore? Are we so wrapped up in looks these days to realise acting value anymore? Just a thought. A terribly mundane thought. But a thought nonetheless.
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this whole film sounds cool for a film, BUT they need to give odyssius a larger part, and they must put phoenix in as he was a key character. they should give odyssius a bigger part because they could make loads of money doing a follow on sequel about the odyssey (there is a big fight where achilles and hector have a fight, achilles kicks hectors ass, and drags the body around ajax's grave and basically goes a bit Rambo.then after the greeks get into troy, not by the wooden horse, but another way paris shoots an arrow into achilles heel [his only weakness] and achilles dies. but the legend continues with odyssieus as the main dude/warrior and the illiad then follows him on the odyssey.) anyway, this story demands the interference with the gods, for example,. it was all started at a wedding with the gods, when Eris(goddess of mischief) threw an apple into the crowd, saying to the the most beautiful god, when it is caught by paris, so, athena, aphrodite and another one i cant remember, and they all offer him a gift for the apple. paris chooses aprodite's gift, the most beautiful woman in the world, helen. howeverhelen is married to meneleus, son of a greek king and nephew to aggamemnon, who were enemies with the trojans anyway. the other major god things are the fact that achilles is a demi-god, dipped in a river when an infant to make him invincible. anyway thats too much rambling.
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He did indeed say it would be silly to have the Gods on screen as characters we can see. But it WOULD be a nice touch to actually see the characters in the film acknowledging and playing off of their BELIEF in the Gods. Look at any serious dramatic film -- be it THE GODFATHER or SCHINDLER'S LIST or ROAD TO PERDITION or whatever -- and you have characters acknowledging a belief in a higher diety. You don't see an actual god in Schindler's list, but the belief in one by the characters is very much apart of the story and their actions. I'd be psyched to see a Trojan War story with this same approach, with the characters viewing the Gods the way people actually did in Ancient Greece. After all, with all of the ancient temples they have dug up that were dedicated to the Greek Gods -- and every now and again they discover yet another -- it's clear the Gods heavily influenced peoples' thinking and actions back in those days.
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but I see what you mean. They will never go 'R' in a million years. They need the teen girl audience, Achilles will have to be really young and/or super-hunky! Let's hope he has big blue eyes and Justin Timberlake's hair! They will try to make it epic to win an Oscar, but I wonder if anyone really cares about it's quality and originality? The last thing a Hollywood film would be allowed to do is something legitimately historical, even FROM HELL fucked that up. I think Ian Holm would be a wonderful KING PRIAM.
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You know what I think Warner Bros should do, is give Superman vs. Batman to Richard Donner to do. Coming Attractions reported along time ago that it was originally donner's idea to do a superman and batman movie anyway. i dont think theres a geek that would argue against the idea that donner created the ultimate superhero movie (even Raimi said that he considered Superman the benchmark) and as far as doing Batman stuff. Watch Lethal Weapon 2, and tell me the kind of stunts that Mel Gibson does in that movie don't remind you of the kind of stuff that Frank Miller's dark knight did.
Donner has a proven track record, has interest in the project, understands the mythology, and knows how to special effects and stunts, and finally he's a studio director not some super crazy maverick independent. When you think about it, isnt he the dreamchoice for both fanboys and the studio? is it just me? or am i making so much sense that this will never happen? -
You know what I think Warner Bros should do, is give Superman vs. Batman to Richard Donner to direct. Coming Attractions reported along time ago that it was originally donner's idea to do a superman and batman movie anyway. i dont think theres a geek that would argue against the idea that donner created the ultimate superhero movie (even Raimi said that he considered Superman the benchmark) and as far as doing Batman stuff. Watch Lethal Weapon 2, and tell me the kind of stunts that Mel Gibson does in that movie don't remind you of the kind of stuff that Frank Miller's dark knight did. (Stuff like grabbing hold of the roofs of cars, the fights, etc)
Donner has a proven track record, has interest in the project, understands the mythology, and knows how to do special effects and stunts, and finally he's a studio director not some super crazy maverick independent. When you think about it, isnt he the dreamchoice for both fanboys and the studio? is it just me? or am i making so much sense that this will never happen? -
'nuff said. Though this does have potential without him, depending on budget an many other things of course.
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so what? 'Goldsmith..'
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Aug 16, 2002 5:51:19 PM CDT
Sadly, I think I have more of a chance of directing Superman vs
by village idiot
It's just one of those Hollywood pipedreams that will never come to be. But can you imagine?...
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What is Petersen and WB thinking when they decided to omit the Greek gods from this movie? They'll destroy the integrity of Iliad if they try to shoot it like it was actual history. I have confidence in Petersen but even he won't be saved by a crappy script. As for Daredevil, I believe that the movie will rock. Daredevil is a better superhero than Spidey, anyway (even though I do like the 'ol Webhead myself).
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For all the people complaining about the absence of Olympian gods in astory about the Trojan War, give a look at the Age of Bronze books. They try to imagine, in a realistic way, what things may have been like. Let's face it, if we could travel back in time to that era, we wouldn't see gods flying around, but we would see the behaviour ofthose that believed. Nothing wrong with that as long as it is done well.
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I hate to change the subject, but I saw a film called "Marley's Revenge-the monster movie". Low budget hoot. A mix of Indiana Jones and Night of the living dead. I know it's a cheapie, but it got my attention. Check it out! Its born of the comic book era!
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I can't wait to see what the hell this guy does with Alexander! B.L. makes no sense whatsoever... Stone is the king of film and owns you all!!!
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Even though Donner is a WB man, when it comes to the live-action movies about DC comic characters he's on the outs. He was forced out by the Salkinds in 1979 and some of their allies are in powerful positions at Warners. For some reason, Jon Peters still has an ally (or allies) on the WB lot and is having enough say to hurt these DC movies. Paul Dini and Jeph Loeb, two of the best writers under 40, who are WB employees, and who know and love these characters, sadly are considered "TV People". And WB is the one studio that still believes TV is a necessary evil: "having shows shot on our lot pays some bills but do not let those people anywhere NEAR a "Feature Film." (Goerge Clooney is exempt because his uncle was a "Movie Star" and George dates soft-core porn stars, but does a good job of getting most of the media not to talk about it). Akiva G. got the job of working on the Bats v. Supes script so he could get a paycheck. Nothing will come from this. If he ever turns in a script it will never be shot.--- Now on to "Troy". Gang, if there are no gods on screen it's ok. It can still work. This version sets up the premise that Paris did not kidnap Helen, nor was she put under a spell by Aphrotite. Helen was in a loveless marrage and ran off with a handsome stanger from Troy. The husband finds out, and since he wants to go after Troy so Greece can control all of the Aegean Sea, tells his people she was kidnapped and they are going to teach them Trojan boys a lesson. Much carnage, drama, and world changing events ensue. Sounds like fun to me. If Wolfgang P. pulls it off I'm there.-----later-----m
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I don't care who writes, directs or stars in what movie just as long as Matthew Lillard gets to play the wisecracking sidekick.
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Considering that the sure-to-suck-even-though-the-fanboys-at-DC Comics.com-have-brainwashed-themselves-into-believing-it's-going-to-be-good McG/Jon Peters SUPERMAN is now apparently replacing WF on the WB fast track, why should any of us be surprised? And to cap it all off, WB justified canning WF on the basis that "it will age like fine wine" if it gets sat on. Well, if you think hiring Goldsman to screw up the script will make the film better...yeesh. WB is beyond stupid. I'd just as soon they not make another comic book movie ever again.
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CLASH OF THE TITANS actually SHOWED the gods like Zeus, Aphrodite, etc. atop Mt. Olympus and that was cool. However this time around the reality of the mortals world without the gods need to be shown. With the Two Towers, Hannibal, Oliver Stone's ALEXANDER with Colin Farrell, Baz's ALEXANDER with DeCaprio, Gates of Fire, and now Troy, the scale of history and fighting will become a visual reality...
on the peaceful end, anyone know more about the Olivia Hussey/Mother Theresa biopic flick? -
Granted that if the gods were given as large a role as they were in the Iliad, the movie would go into lame territory, but the gods should be given cameos at the least. Could you imagine the awesome imagery of a god such as Ares in combat? It would be like watching Sauron fight in the prologue to The Fellowship of the Ring!
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Someone should hire Robin Redfield to write the screenplay. Putting a name like Robin near a franchise called Batman, is instant success isn't it? Hang on, what was that film called wrote by A Goldsman...
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I mean if they are intent on killing Batman V's Superman as a spectacle, they might aswell just go the whole hog and hire the "worst director ever" to helm it. Surely Mr W.S.Anderson (who comes with his own nails and coffin) can find time to murder what little credibilty these 2 franchises have left before he get's his hands on Fox's Aliens V Predator?
Better still, why not re-hire Schumacher and his rubber nipples?
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Oh, it's true...it's true. And, also, shouldn't every movie start out potentially being the greatest movie ever? When I first started training for the Olympics, I didn't say, "Gee, I'd just like to qualify!" Hell, no! I said, "I'm gonna win me one of those friggin' gold medals!" It seems like the problem anymore is that no one wants to put the effort in to be the best...they just want to half-ass stuff and hope it turns out for the best.
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This could be good.
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Academy Award Winning ceased to have any meaning years ago.
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There is, if memory serves, an Italian version of THE ILIAD dating back to the 1950s or early 60s. Seems like it's about time we had a new version of this classic story. Forget the gods, bring on the political intrigue. Make sure to get some fresh young actors in the key roles and some big name vets for the older parts. Too bad about SVB, though. Looked forward to a new cinematic take on the two most popular superheroes in the DC universe.
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Aug 18, 2002 2:56:33 AM CDT
personally, i was just beginning to get really excited about Bvs
by a goonie
i love Josh Hartnett. the man is an extremely talented actor. Colin Farrell has impressed me in the past, and has that slick cool that is needed to pull off the role of Wayne/Batman. i like some of Peterson's work. The Neverending Story is the greatest fantasy picture ever made. but his love for CGI is a potential problem in a superhero movie for me. there's obviously no way around it. if they hire fucking Peter Bogdanovich to direct this movie, there's gonna be tons of CG throughout. but Peterson has a knack for inserting TOO MUCH CGI into his movies, and the quality often borders on poor. but still. this movie would be fun. i understand your lack of enthusiasm, Harry, due to the mess that is Batman and Robin. but being the film critic i am, i love CINEMA. I love that i have the great movies in the world, of course, but i also love that i have the terrible ones, too. like Sunshine and 3000 Miles To Graceland and O Brother, Where Art Thou?. i love that. and no matter what, i adore that feeling i get when i become genuinely excited for a movie. which happens about 600 times a year. so it's too bad that the future of this movie is now muddled and confused. i guess i'll have to put my excitement on the back burner, too.
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Aug 18, 2002 8:58:03 AM CDT
Warner Bros. -- Offer 20 million dollars for James Cameron to d
by jdanielp
Well, ... if you want the sure fire hit with "Batman vs. Superman", ... then go after James Cameron ("Aliens", "Terminator", "T2") to get the ball rolling (so-to-speak). Hook him with MONEY if you have to. You know he would make it into something incredible. And sure, his movies are always the most expensive to make, ... but they always make loads more in return and are always cutting edge. Remember, ... he was once involved with Spider-man and the comic book people (including Stan Lee) loved his take on the character. (Besides, ... did you know that he once wanted to be a comic book illustrator???) Cameron would be an awesome choice. And if money doesn't even make him interested, ... then there's always Richard Donner.
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Aug 18, 2002 11:49:49 AM CDT
Vegas, I'm a greek mythology geek, so here are the answers t
by john_howlett_jr
Achilles was 15 when the Trojan War began, and 24 when he was slaughtered upon the battlefield. He was only 37.5 percent human. and 62.5 percent Divine (his mother was a goddess, the Nereid Thetis, and his great grandfather, on his human father's side, was chief deity Zeus himself). He was said to be somewhat scrawny and effeminate, with flowing, long blond hair. Everyone thought that his reputation of being the greatest warrior of all time was total bullshit, until he slaughtered over a thousand Trojan soldiers in less than twenty minutes during his first battle. The reason for his invulnerability was that soon after birth, his mother purified him of his mortality in the black waters of the river of darkness, Styx. Since she held him by his heel during his baptism, only his heel remained vulnerable. Thats why he died when Paris shoot an arrow, whose tip had been dipped in Centaur's blood (Centaur's blood was a lethal poison to a god or demi-god), straight into his right heel. I think Heath Ledger would be a great Achilles.
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Aug 19, 2002 2:31:48 PM CDT
clearing some stuff up about Richard Donner and Superman
by stuftseveredhead
Richard donner was fired by the producers of the Superman movies because he was insistent on making the film's feel as real as possible and being true to the myth of the character. The Salkind's only cared about how much money they were spending and were deeply in debt. That's why John Williams isnt involved in Superman 2 and why Marlon Brando isnt in it either even though footage of him was shot. The salkind's didnt want to have to pay him. Regarding Donner's relationship with Warner's versus the Salkind's. the salkinds are independent producers that sold the distribution rights to Warner's. They do not have connections with Warners at all. In fact, if I remember correctly, several of the Salkinds are currently under criminal investigation. Donner still has a deal with Warner's. Is one of their highest paid producer and director and still has the same office that he has had for more than 10 years on the Warner's lot. HE HAS A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH WARNERS. Also, Donner has said several times that he regrets that he never got to finish the film that he wanted to make with Superman 2. He expressed interest in the mid 80's in doing Batman before Tim Burton got the project AND he also has expressed interest in re-doing the Superman franchise. (I think he feels the need to prove that it was his vision that made superman so good, even though everyone already seems to know this) DONNER IS PERFECT FOR BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN. ARGH! Why can't warner's take their head out of their asses and see that the perfect choice is right there in front of them???????
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People!!! Why do all of you stupid cocksuckers hate the movie Batman&Robin??? I mean it made 107 million dollars in the damn box office. Thats not too bad!!! Plus it had Arnold Schwarzenegger in it!!! And that nice sexy Alicia Silverstone in tight rubber!!! Boy what a fine ass!!! I would do anything to grab it!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!! Oh and lets not forget Uma Thurman! She was SPICEY HOT!!!! The only thing that was realy wrong with the damn movie was the nipples on the Batman costume. HOW GAY!
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Has anyone posting here actually read it? Do any of you know _what_ you pretend to be talking about?
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the following is a project that has been underway for 2 years. as internet media grows and changes, so do our techniques. the most recent (from Book 14 forward) have both the vocalized scene and music, plus - of course - the graphics, some interactives included. the poetry is all based on the Iliad translations, and the credits are readily viewed.
we are currently working on Book 18. Book 17 is soon to be released. Homer's Iliad:
http://barrysmylie.com/iliad/iliad00.htm
enjoy it. and remember - no one can improve on the original script.
sincerely,
susan katz -
Troy sound to be a great movie, I only hope Petersen had choose some really keen experts of ancient greek history to properly represent the costume, weapons and armour of late mycenean period.
Would be a shame if in this movie we are gonna to see the Achaeans and Trojans of 1250-1200 B.C. wearing the classical greek equipments and helmets ecc.. used 600-800 years after the trojan war (like it was in many old trojan war movies).
Hopefully this time the movie producers had take good reference like for examples from the Peter Collony books, or from the Eric Shanower comics age of bronze or from some mycenean soldier figure based on the research studies of Dr. Raffaele D'Amato. -
I love greek mythology. The other day I thought "what book can I read next?" and decided on the Iliad, so I got it from the library and started to read it. Today I thought "I wonder what movies Orlando Bloom is filming." So I came on the net and found out he's playing Paris, this has made me VERY happy. Brad Pitt I can do without, and is Emilio Estevez really the right person for this type of film? But at least they have got one cast member right so far.
As for the gods and goddesses, I can see why they wouldn't be included in the film, but think of Jason and the Argonauts, a fantastic film that was enriched by the depiction of the olympians.
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Are we meaning Jason Alexander from Seinfeld? I hope not, because Patroclus is supposed to be Achilles' youthful, limber cousin (and in some versions, his lover) who at one point in the Illiad straps on Achilles' armour and goes out as the golden hero in order to rally the Greek troops. Alexander doesn't fit the bill there.
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