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Tidbits seen from RED DRAGON in UK!
Hey folks, Harry here... Well seems that RED DRAGON made a splash on the BBC as part of a documentary upon Sir Anthony Hopkins. Sounds like it was a pretty darn nice doc, but of highest interest was the new footage from RED DRAGON that the documentary unveiled. Now as odd as can be, Quint was actually in the editting bay with Brett Ratner yesterday getting a peek at what that film is shaping up into. From the first trailer, it felt a bit odd, not entirely sold. I'm curious to see Fiennes and Norton and Hopkins at it, but I really hope that Universal and Ratner in particular don't take the tact of belittling the original MANHUNTER as part of their standard rhetoric about this movie. The reason for doing a remake is simple... To complete the Hopkins Trilogy of Hannibal films. That's pretty simple. So you can watch all three Hopkins films in a row as a series. That doesn't require taking pot shots at Michael Mann's wonderful film or Brian Cox's chilling turn as Lecter himself. Ultimately the comparisons should be left to those that pay to see both. Here's a wonderful little update from Frank... Hasn't that name just acquired a chill ever since DONNIE DARKO? Sorry, here ya go...
Hi
You've probably been told this a thousand time already, but in case you havent the BBC in the UK screened quite a bit of behind the scenes Red Dragon Footage as part of a documentary entitled 'Anthony Hopkins: a taste for Hannibal' on Wednesday night 10.35 pm.
The documentary was basically a Sir Hopkins retrospective/ interview, with him discussing his carreer, including some rather funny candid comments he made re his script selecting proccess and the Bad Company movie. It also inculded contributions from Jodie Foster, Oliver Stone, Gary Oldham etc, The documentary followed him around as he was filming his lastest movie, namely Red Dragon, so we got to see,
• Anthony giving us a tour of the Lecter cell set (the same as in Silence) with him commenting about the little details (ie the drawings which they had to buy off MGM)
• Footage of Hopkins being fitted with THE mask and then of Lector being wheeled on the trolly down the cell corridor, with Barney buy his side (interesting to note its the Hannibal mask rather than the silence one, cleaning up that continuty error, being Barney stole the old one rather than the new...if that makes sense)
• Hopkins delivering Lecter's lines as Tommy Cooper (his favorite comedian and another of his spot on impressions, VERY funny!!)
• Filming a sequence at a concert where Lector is in the audience (the extras clapping Hopkins as they finished, he even winked at the documentary camera and did the Lecter stare and tongue flick)
• Photo shoot footage for the poster and outside the theater with Hopkins in costume, as young Lecter (hair dyed black and with a small pony tail)
• Best of all about two mins of the Lecter and Graham interview (he was seated like Starling) with Lecter giving advice on the Tooth fairy, saying Graham was just like him and Graham asking if there was anything Lecter was frightened of, with his reply being boredom.
Overall a pretty good and surprising documentary with Sir Anthony coming across as the down to earth gentlemen he so readly appears.
Hope that was of interest (and note old news!!)
Thanks
Frank
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Red Dragon the book is better than silence, Manhunter was not better than silence..
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Sounds as if I missed a good little program.
Hope its repeated sometime. -
I mean, it will be cool to see Sir Tony do his schtick again (I really like "Hannibal") but "Manhunter", despite dating badly, had some cool performances and Brian Cox was good. Petersen ruled as Will Graham, and the film had that whole underplayed gore thing going on that worked so well in SOTL. Hmm. I'll have to be convinced about this one - though it does have a stellar cast.
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Well, maybe not that short, but short, like the rest of Hollywood.
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Brian Cox rules and he owns the role forever.
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Just cause he did the role first - and got, what 20 minutes of screen time? doesn't make it his. Yes he was good, yes Manhunter was good - but because you do the role first doesn't automatically mean that your the best to ever do it. Hopkins owned your ass in SOTL - admit it - all of his peers do - actors, directors, contemporaries call his job absolutely first rate and astonishing. Olivier wasn't the first to do Hamlet, but I'll bet that every actor since is measured against him. Its far too trendy to latch onto the unpopular opinion on this site - make yourself appear like your some filmophile because you "know" that Brian Cox is a much better Lector than Hopkins. I couldn't disagree more.
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Just cause he did the role first - and got, what 20 minutes of screen time? doesn't make it his. Yes he was good, yes Manhunter was good - but because you do the role first doesn't automatically mean that your the best to ever do it. Hopkins owned your ass in SOTL - admit it - all of his peers do - actors, directors, contemporaries call his job absolutely first rate and astonishing. Olivier wasn't the first to do Hamlet, but I'll bet that every actor since is measured against him. Its far too trendy to latch onto the unpopular opinion on this site - make yourself appear like your some filmophile because you "know" that Brian Cox is a much better Lector than Hopkins. I couldn't disagree more.
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Manhunter was cool, Brian Cox was real good, but William Petersen sucked as he did in every movie he
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this film is not a classic. it is a badly made grade z film, that is barely a cut above a tv movie of the week. i don't understand the following this movie has.
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Lecter admitting he fears boredom is character assassination on a cosmic scale. Lecter fears boredom. We know it, Lecter knows it, Graham knows it, but mutual acknowledgement of the fact causes the whole house of cards to come tumbling down. Ultra-lame.
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No I fucking won't admit it you little shit. It's called difference of opinion.
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And no, its not because I want to project the popular, anti Hopkins filmophile attitude. I liked Brian Cox as Lector much better. Trying to make Anthony Hopkins "young" again just kind of ruins it for me... I never read 'Red Dragon' but I did read 'Silence of the Lambs' and tried so desperately to enjoy 'Hannibal' when I read it. The only thing that sticks out in my mind was the atrocious ending of the book and how the movie ending was not that much better... It just felt like Harris wrote the third one because the studio asked for it and because he could get an even larger sum of money for it, but I digress... *** As for the Olivier comparison - I am sure that I am going to make many enemies here when I say that his performance (at least in the film version) is overrated. Why does everyone KNOW that Olivier was the greatest Shakespearean actor ever? Because everyone keeps saying so? I do not think that there are too many of us that visit this site that can remember or were present at any of the performances of Olivier in his heyday - all we have is the screen version and word of mouth. He wasn't the first to play Hamlet, and he most certainly will not be the last. Hopefully though, we will not see any mre remakes of Hannibal Lector, nor will we see any more movies or read any more books about him. Yes, he IS entertaining, but please, lets have something else...
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I agree that Red Dragon is a much better story than SOTL, however, I'm not entirely sure that Ratner is a better director than Demme. Come on, the guy did Rush Hour, and Family Man. It's like letting Michael Bay shoot Schindler's List just because he's made a few blockbusters. Even though I'm an atheist, I'm praying to god that Ratner doesn't fuck this one up, especially with this overwhelmingly awesome cast (Keitel, Norton, Hopkins, Fiennes, Watson, Hoffman).
On a sidenote, I agree with WeedyMcSmokey. Harrison Ford wasn't the first one to play Jack Ryan, and Christopher Reeve wasn't the first to play Superman, yet they own their roles. Cox and Hopkins were both superb, but they both brought DIFFERENT things to their roles. Hopkins was not rehashing or impersonating Bryan Cox's performance, therefore it is unfair and illogical to label one better than the other. They each have their own merits. -
I'm probably the hundreth talkbacker to mention this but did anyone else notice the nice way Hopkins says "refining" sounds like Ralph Fiennes. Nice touch.
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What makes me laugh is how badly they've ripped off Manhunter in the trailers for Red Dragon. Shooting the Manhunter script on the Silence of the Lambs soundstages, fuck me, that's clever.
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Ok here's my take. When I saw Silence Hopkins' Lecter scared the s*** out of me. I mean it just doesnt get any creapier than than. When I saw Manhunter Cox was blah no scare, no creap, nothing. Hopkins' Lecter set the high water mark (I'm in San Antonio we know about high water marks lately) for refined creapy.
HOWEVER: After reading both books nowhere does it say anything about Lecters hair being slicked back (didn't know they had dep hair gel in the ol' sanitarium). The book didnt mention anything about they way he strokes the side of his head when thinking. Subtle maneurisms are not mentioned but oddly the same in both films. Did Sir Tony see manhunter then subconciously (or conciously) copy those things? Is he copying Cox? -
First off, I don
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You will never convince someone who prefers Anthony Hopkins' Lecter that Cox is better and you will never convince someone who prefers Brian Cox's Lecter than Hopkins is better. It's pointless to try. I like Brian Cox better, myself, not just because he's subtle and restrained and is too massive to be picked up by his collar (unlike Hopkins), but also because I saw "Manhunter" before "Silence of the Lambs." So Cox has always been the original to me, Hopkins has always been a nasally imitator. I think that after this movie comes out and sucks ass, lots of people are gonna be too embarrassed to be so adamant about "how bad Manhunter is." But I could be wrong.
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I've said this many times before, but since everyone wants to argue again, here we go: Hopkins' Lector is scenery-chewing of the highest order. Marlon Brando has roughly the same amount of screen time in The Godfather and brought a tremendous amount of humanity to the role. That's fucking acting. That's why Brando's the best, and that's why he won an oscar for best LEAD performance despite having less time than Pacino. All Hopkins did was try to be creepy, and he was over the top. Do you think slithering your tongue is great acting? It's a very mannered performance, and if you like that kind of thing than so be it. It doesn't surprise me that a bunch of MTV-Generation geeks can't understand what Brian Cox was able to accomplish. You claim Hopkins "owns" the role, but clearly if you read the books Cox is the one who created it. He's the fucking owner. The reason his Lector is scarier is because he somehow makes him more "normal" and more "human". He makes you begin to trust him. With Hopking, you know the guy is a freak show and wouldn't trust him for a second. There's no MYSTERY. The part where Cox calls the operator and claims to not have the use of his hands--that's ingenious. It's not like Cox is some flash in the pan that a bunch of old school fanboys are championing. His performance in L.I.E. is up there with ANYTHING Hopkins has ever done. And Lector is far from Sir Ant's greatest work anyway. Check him in Nixon or Remains of the Day. That's fucking acting. Silence of the Lambs is Hopkins fucking around. It's like one of those roles that Orson Welles used to do for money when he needed it. He put on fake noses, crazy makeup, he just had fun. All sound and fury, signifying nothing.
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Jul 05, 2002 1:15:11 PM CDT
I don't see why you guys have to be so aggressive about it.
by scorpio2nd
Speaking of people called Cox, let's talk about Ronny Cox again, the most unfairly forgotten actor of the last ten years in my opinion.
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I have never actually seen Manhunter, and thus, have no opinion on which actor (Hopkins or Cox) was a better Dr. Lecter. However...could we PLEASE all learn to spell Dr. Lecter's name the correct way? "Lector" and "Lektor" are both indisputably WRONG. In Harris's books, and all related entries on the IMDB, the character's name is "Dr. Hannibal Lecter." Let's not let typos and mistakes made by ignorant tele-journalists become accepted alternatives.
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I can't imagine that most of you that say you liked Brian Cox better even remembered that there was a Manhunter movie until after Silence Of The Lambs came out. How memorable was his performance if you hadn't even thought of the movie in years. Manhunter was ok, kind of TV movieish, sort of like a pilot for a Miami Vice spinoff. I actually read somewhere that Gene Hackman was the first actor offered the Hannibal part for SOTL, that would have been interesting, although its hard to imagine him in the role, would have been very different. The cast for Red Dragon is amazing, this is a movie I'm really looking forward to. I wouldn't worry to much about the director, even the shlockmeister that made the first two Porkys movies managed to make a good movie, A Christmas Story. With this cast, it would be hard for him to screw it up.
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Difference of opinion - the classic cop-out from any kind of debate. Sure, everybody's got opinions, but aren't some more valued than others? Would you not hold the opinion of Clapton over your stoner buddy when he says that Hendrix is the greatest guitar player ever> Wouldn't he know more? Perhaps my first post was too combative, saying that Hopkins was most definitly better. But the opinion I share is not just mine, you can take my opinion at the same level I take yours - discardable. However, having read a bit about the Lector "phenomon" it is the opinon of several respected actors and directors that have said that Hopkins performance is definitive. But, there are many valid reasons to disagree - Cox being more physically imposing, Hopkins being a ham etc. Plus actors and directors are known to be a bit fawning and fanboyish themselves from time to time. I just think that a lot of people don't formulate their opinons based on merit, but on being contrary for the sake of appearing intelligent or knowledgable. Of course, that's just an opinion. And as for you cocksuckers who think your opinion is the end all and be all of debate - I fucking pity you, you have no ability to engage in any kind of dialogue that would allow you to grow. That makes you a retard. Congratulations.
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First off, I thought the trailer was GODAWFUL. I am rarely one to condemn something from the trailer alone...in fact I've only done it once that I can remember ("Batman and Robin," anyone?) But I thought the acting was rushed, cardboard, and so far below the actors in question's standards that I wondered if they were bricking it just to get back at Ratner (who, from what I understand, is not real popular with the cast.) BTW, Olivier is considered the greatest Shakspearian actor because "Henry V" was the first "modern" adaption of the Bard...everything that came before was staged and stilted in comparison (I'm speaking of video adaptions, not plays.) Kind of like people insisting that "Citizen Kane" is the greatest film ever made, although some of its technical achievements have since been surpassed. It's all about what you create from what you've got...
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Oh yeah, this is the kind of guy I was talking about. Dude, you gotta meet this guy I used to talk movies with - loves Manuhunter, hates SOTL. Nice guy, eats his snot, doesn't change his undies, thinks Britney is "a good singer". Girls actually call him by his nickname - "Poo-breath" Do you know him? - because he sure fits your definition of smart. If that's your criteria for intelligence than I bow to you - you stunning, stunning moron. When's Mensa meeting next?
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Jul 05, 2002 3:07:28 PM CDT
Ratner's using the same cinematographer from Manhunter...
by cutter's way
Dante Spinotti was Mann's lenser for many films, including Manhunter, and now he's shooting Red Dragon as well. They're not redoing Red Dragon, they're remaking Manhunter only with shittier actors and a music video director. William Peterson WAS Will Graham. Ed Norton looks like a schoolboy, not a forty-year old haunted profiler. Hopkins was good as Lector, but Cox was at least as good with less screen time. Manhunter was an exemplary thriller and a great adaptation of Red Dragon, even though it took major liberties with the source novel. This new version will be truer to the book, but far less compelling, I fear.
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Actually (and I'm almost ashamed to admit that I know this) due to complicated copyright agreements with Dino DeLaurentis and Thomas Harris and other ownership laws, within "Manhunter," Lecter is spelled "Lecktor." It's spelled that way in the script, the credits (IMDB's, too), and in a newspaper headline that appears in Mann's film. I suppose the true measure of how the character's name should be spelled lies in how Thomas Harris spells it (Lecter), but there is a little more behind the confusion than just poor spelling.
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That movie was horrible!
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There you all are talking about Hopkins and Cox, and you're forgetting: that fucking cheapskate De Laurentiis hired Brett Ratner to direct this movie. So you're going to be watching a film by the director of Rush Hour 1 + 2 and Family Man. Regardless of the fantastic cast and crew on this, it'll be a sack of shit and you're fools to expect anything else.
For the record, I'm all for Red Dragon being filmed again, as Manhunter [great movie] took some diabolical liberties with the text which I'd like to see rectified. But: I thought Cox was a better Lecter as he didn't overplay it the way Hopkins did. Do any of you in the States know a UK comedian called Julian Clary? That's who Hopkins' Lecter has always reminded me of. Big camp overstatement. BUT!: Great movie! SILENCE OF THE LAMBS was a great movie because it had a great director - DEMME!!!!
Can you say the same for RED DRAGON? Ratner?
Sigh. -
Look at the pics from this special at killermovies.com and compare them to the trailer. Doesn't Lecter/Hopkins look a lot older in the trailer, with grayer hair? In the book, the scene where Graham visits Lecter takes place only a few years after Lecter is caught. (Lecter uses the line "that's the same atrocious aftershave you wore in court 3 years ago). If their sticking close to the book, then why does Lecter look like he's age about 10-15 years? And what's this business about a ponytail? BTW, Gene Hackman wasn't supposed to play Lecter, he was originally supposed to direct SOTL.
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For anyone who doubts me just watch the scene where Will Graham runs thru the window while Iron Butterfly's indagodavida is playing. It will blow you away.
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Ed Norton, Fiennes, Emily Watson, and P.S. Hoffman are pretty intelligent actors who have an eye for good material. So I guess there is at least some hope for this movie, after all. I mean, how would all these great actors sell out for the same movie? Fiennes learned his lesson with the awful "The Avengers," and Norton did with "Smoochy." Then again, "Mars Attacks" had a promising cast, (Nicholson, Brosnan, Benning, Portman) and look how that turned out.
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Boys, I think you're missing the point about the difference between the two performances. The "Manhunter" Lecter was supposed to be straight, he was underwritten (already by Thomas Harris who didn't seem sure where he was headed in "Red Dragon") and certainly filmed that way by butch Michael Mann. The Lecter of "Silence of the Lambs" was sexually ambiguous. You complain about Hopkins camping up the performance. How else could he have played the bitchy lines Lecter was given? "Senator, love the suit!"
Now on to serious matters, I've seen both Hopkins and Cox in the theatre (and in person). Hopkins is probably 5'8", Cox is maximum 5'5" though Cox probably outweighs Hopkins by 100 lbs. H -
First taste of flesh, his mothers pussy.
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After all, never forget that he lives in a $3.6 million Maibu mansion and has four assistants. Surely that's proof enough that he's qualified to direct any movie at all. Doesn't it? Somebody...?
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Those who say that control of the Lecter series should not have been handed to a young, Jewish man with a history of making crowd pleasing summer movies...you're very right. It's a travesty that Red Dragon wasn't given to a more serious filmmaker. While I'm on the subject...giving Schindler's List to that young, Jewish man with such films as Always, 1941, and Hook under his belt was absolutely a CRIME!
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I didn't know Ratner was Jewish. That explains it, then! It makes total sense now! I'm a film student at USC, trying to become a filmmaker. But, forget whatever little talent I may have. Maybe I should just drop out of school and get circumcised, perhaps then they would let me film Saving Private Ryan 2: Back to Normandy.
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So you say an action/comedy director has no business directing Red Dragon? Well what about Jonathan Demme prior to Silence of the lambs? Want to know what the highlights of his resume were up until that point? MARRIED TO THE MOB, that's what! SWING SHIFT! SOMETHING WILD! All COMEDIES. I'm no fan of Ratner's films, but this will not be like anything he's ever done before, so I'm going to give him a chance. People in Hollywood can do a variety of things you know; hey imagine if in 1990 someone told you the star of Turner and Hooch and Bosom buddies was going to win two Oscars and become just about the biggest movie star of the decade, we would have all laughed at that. Funny how things work out sometimes innit...
And as for the Cox/Hopkins debate, I'm a fan of Cox's performance in Manhunter, as someone else said, the scene where he makes the phone call and manipulates people into telling him what he wants is great stuff, where he tells the secretary to "flip that rolodex!" or whatever. But I enjoy Hopkins in the role too. However I hope his role hasn't been beefed up at the expense of the Francis Dolarhyde subplot. If done correctly I expect this will be a 130-140 minute flick. I'll be there first day to check it out anyhoo. -
Apears to be ,less Cox in Manhunter and more Richard Burton in , John Hurt's version of 1984.Same overalls , slicked back hair , pale face , standing pose and slow speaking voice.Hopkin's is a fan of the late Burton.I'm surprised no one else has noticed that his 1984 character , seems to have been a huge influence.
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Also... on the Criterion SOTL DVD, Hopkins comments on other characters he based Hannibal on.
For example, the "slithering tongue" thing he did was inspired by Dracula.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter who or what he based his performance on. What's important is that Hopkins did not "copy" or "rehash" Cox's Lecter.
It's like saying Ridley Scott's "Alien" is superior or inferior to James Cameron's "Aliens." -
Well if you saw him in Henry V and he was FANtastic. Soulful and manly, like the Bard would have wanted. As a Shakespearean, just compare him to the squeaky voiced, sandy-haired pudgy drama-club tart Branagh, and you'll see why Olivier was revered. As for Hopkins, he's a great, great actor who doesn't give a damn about acting. Look at him break down in Nixon, with Kissinger looking on and tell me Hopkins isn't a genius. But there's NO guarantee that anything he does will be worth watching for script, drama and the rest. Half the time he doesn't even read the script before signing on. I don't think you could ever say that about Cox - his presence is a guarantee of a certain OVERALL quality for a film, he exercises judgement. Hopkins seems to live from one day to the next, and might pick a project if it takes him to a nice location, or if he wants the money. And MaxCalifornia, the point to make about Ratner and Demme, is that Demme was a GOOD director of comedies. Ratner is a BAD director of action comedies. He is not at home to Mr and Mrs inspiration. And don't get me started on Tom Hanks.
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Jul 05, 2002 11:04:13 PM CDT
Somehow, I don't think Ratner will say anything pissy about
by snowman12964
Why???
Hasn't anybody else noticed?
Dante Spinotti was the cinematographer for Manhunter.
Dante Spinotti is the cinematographer for Red Dragon.
First time Ratner has worked with Spinotti. Either Ratner or the producers appreciated Spinotti's work on Manhunter.
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Jul 05, 2002 11:36:17 PM CDT
Um, Red Dragon is the *second* film that Ratner has done with Sp
by osmosis jones
They also worked together on The Family Man.
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I could be wrong as I havent even seen Manhunter but it seems that it's become a qausi-elitest thing to say you prefer the Cox preformance. It makes you sound sooo cultured and thoughtful. Face it.. Hopkin's preformance was exceptional and most likely superior in many ways. SOTL was too sucessful and for that it must be punished.
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Why dis Manhunter?
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OK. Mr Micheal Mann "Miami Vice" directed Manhunter. Did you realize that he STOLE the Manhunter plot for an episode of Mimia Vice? He had Sonny Crockett tracking a home invader by profiling him. It was a TV version of Mamhunter.
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MST3kPIMP -- You admit you haven't seen Manhunter but still feel you have enough of a grasp on the situation to say people who like Brian Cox are posers? Maybe they just have better taste and tend to be able to express themselves more eloquently. Anyway, having said that, let me add that I don't think "Silence" should be punished because of it's success. I watched it the other night and was struck by how many elements come together -- cinematography, direction, music, editing, performances -- to create an atmosphere that is absolutely mesmerizing and completely serious. What I do think should be punished is the way the Lecter character is being wrung dry -- first with "Hannibal" which is so bad it simply can't be taken seriously, and now with "Red Dragon" which may possibly be great, I dunno because I haven't seen it yet. I want it to be good because that'd be a real surprise, and I think Ratner's an interesting guy who might have some tricks up his sleeve, and I also don't want an amazing character, Lecter, to be run through another lame moneymaking exercise. But I have a bad feeling about "Red Dragon."
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Yeah but Demme had a long filmography of really great american comedies that had a real feel for people and places and character, and quirky but assured storytelling: CITIZEN'S BAND, SOMETHING WILD, MELVIN AND HOWARD, even STOP MAKING SENSE was great. All those qualities are what made SOTL more than just a straight-up thriller. Can you honestly say that about Ratner? Dino's just hired him because he's cheap and he's got no ego to clash with.
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Not only for being an incorrigable ham in the role of Hannibal Lector - compare his pantomime (the UK type of pantomime, btw) stylings in Silence of the Lambs & Hannibal to the measured, nuances given by Brian Cox in Manhunter. Hopkins starred in an obscenely expensive ad campaign for one of the UK's biggest banks, in which he boasts about all the big fees he gets paid, and shortly after that ad was launched, the bank closed a considerable amount of rural branches, including one little branch in a quiet part of Wales that was his mother's local branch (this place was also Hopkins' childhood home). These closures caused a lot of problems for people living in rural isolation. Which reminds me of the old joke "Come home to a real fire - buy a house in the Welsh countryside..."
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Great programme. You posters are talking about actors' choices, but actors can only choose from what they are offered and Hopkins doesn't really get offered the juicy parts Tom Hanks gets, does he? I'm not a Brian Cox fan, he does a lot of television over here and he's blustery, lumpy, hammy and unappealing. The key to the characterisation in SOTL was Lecter had to seduce Clarice though (this should be obvious to all but the terminally thick) the character's gay or bisexual, not usually a big turn-on for women. Hopkins appeals to women and turned in a performance that was not only scary but so sexually charged that a girl (even Jodie Foster!) might find him irresistible. Cox doesn't appeal to women at all. Lecter's a twisted romantic lead and Brian Cox can't pull that off. As for the origins of Hopkins' performance as Lecter (and Gary Oldman did a spot-on Hopkins impersonation in the BBC programme) comes from his performance at the National Theatre in David Hare's Pravda where he played a character based on Rupert Murdoch as a sexy Satan seducing all opposition, tongue slithering in and out. The director Julie Taymor gave a good insight into how Hopkins (who she describes as being eccentric but desperate to be ordinary) sees himself.
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Laid off by Barclays, were you? My sympathies. The adverts were well directed by Tony Scott, though, I particularly liked the Tim Roth and Big Dog one. But Hopkins (Roth or Robbie Coltrane) is no more responsible for Barclays' management than Brian Cox is for the management of all those companies he does voiceovers for. And seriously, is it possible to watch television without having Brian Cox chiming in on everything from cars to deodorant? Hugh Lawrie gets the amusing voiceovers, Brian Cox gets the portentous ones. I'm fed up with both of them! I hope you are currently boycotting Samuel L. Jackson for his Barclays adverts (at least the Hopkins advert wasn't incomprehensible).
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DinoGuy, you antisemitic fuck. So being a Jew is a ticket to the top in Hollywood, huh? That's one of the oldest chestnuts in the book, but as always fails to explain the success of non-Jews like, say, George Lucas and Brian De Palma and Martin Scorsese, and, shit, I don't know, Ang Lee and John fucking Woo. Roberto Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino are down the synagogue all the damn time, aren't they? Don't be an asshole.
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Jul 06, 2002 11:50:09 AM CDT
the best adaptaion was "Silence" because Ted Tally wrote the scr
by tall_boy
Therefore, with Ted Tally also writting the screenplay for "Red Dragon". Throw in a good cast, and director who's itching to prove himself outside of the "Rush Hour" genre and that = the possiblity of a VERY GOOD flick.
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Gilbertson, nowhere in my post did I say "Jews are an inferior race" or "Fuck the Jews" or anything. My comment was intended as a joke, nothing more, nothing less. There is nothing wrong or racist about saying that Jews run Hollywood because it
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Personally, I'm looking forward to Danny Boyle's '28 Days Later', which will be far scarier and equally as well made as Red Dragon. I'm also waiting for someone to think that Red Dragon is a sequel to Reign Of Fire. Hey, I got away with telling some guy that John Q was the sequel to Malcolm X, and he bought it...
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It doesn't help to be Jewish cause the Gay Mafia'll still get you! I am looking forward to Red Dragon and yeah I think Anthony Hopkins is the ultimate Lecter and no Brian Cox's Lecter was nothing special and you people are only pretending Cox is better because 99% of the world doesn't know who Brian Cox is so it makes you look like insiders. What shit. Ratner has directed crap I agree but he has directed nothing crappier than BELOVED so don't go telling me Jonathan Demme is not a loser. Ali was also crap so don't go telling me Michael Mann is God. Mike Medavoy who was head of Orion when Silence of the Lambs was made said in his book that he wanted to cast Jodie Foster as Clarice and Jonathan Demme wanted to cast Anthony as Lecter. Demme didn't like Jodie (he wanted Michelle Pfeiffer) and Medavoy didn't like Anthony (he wanted Robert Duvall). They made a trade off, Medavoy accepted Hopkins in exchange for Demme accepting Foster.
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Okay, DinoGuy, obviously I don't know you and therefore I can't call you an antisemite. You say you're not one, that you were only pointing out that there are powerful Jews in Hollywood, just as there tend to be a lot of black basketball stars and all the rest of it. So I'll start with an apology: sorry about getting a bit hotheaded back there with the Hitler labelling, that was over the top and offensive, and not merited by anything you wrote. It would have been deserved if you'd written "Jews are an inferior race" or "Fuck the Jews", but, as you point out, you didn't write that. But re-read your posting that I (over)reacted to: I'm not on some PC crusade, but surely you understand why some folk feel a little uneasy every time it's suggested that the Jews rule the roost in Tinseltown - I don't see how it's different to asserting that Jews control global finance, a harmless enough statement in and of itself, maybe, but some people could get the wrong idea. I accept that your saying what you say about Hollywood and Jews is not remotely tantamount to calling for another Holocaust, and I repeat that I'm sorry for branding you a Nazi, but I don't think it needs to spelled out why some of us don't like the implication that so-and-so lands such-and-such a gig because he's Jewish, or that Jews rule the movie roost. That said, I accept that you didn't mean anything by what you wrote, that you're not antisemitic, and that I just flew off the handle. So, sorry once again for the mud I slung, and let's cool this one. P.S. I also stand corrected about George Lucas.
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These idiotic postings are better than the last H. movie. Some ok ones but jeez,alright already.
Manhunter just isn't very entertaining, as far as I remember. I might rent it tonight just to make sure, but it seems to me the book took less time to read and was twice as effective as Mr. Mann's guy in blue and white on a beach visual style. To whoever said it was thought-provoking (as opposed to a crowd pleaser).. what specific ideas did it bring up? Yes, it's very slow moving. Don't really think that makes it smarter or more interesting than the much more cheeky SotL. So if you want to tell us the deep thoughts that rose up after watching, I for one am ready. Mann's ok, but he needs to pick material suited to his slower sensibility. Like the Insider. Not summer-beach read pulp entertainment stuff.
as for the 2 Hannibals.. some people cook with Greek olive oil, some people cook with Italian.
For everyone super-worried about the artistic reasons for doing this movie.. it's a business. Why do people always forget this? Even independent films are a business, for the most part. Getting mad at "them" for making this movie is just weird. SotL was made to make money, as was Manhunter. So if you aren't interested, then boycott it, encourage others to do so. Seriously, don't go see Manhunter, even at the dollar theatre, and don't rent it. But I want to see how bad it is/if they pulled it off... yup then you are going to give them some proof that its ok to make movies for money.
Now I remember why I never do this anymore. Good way to waste an hour though.
re the Jew thing... uh, yeah.. don't think your a nazi,but your msg makes it sound like you have some chip on your shoulder.. didn't they like your student film or what? -
Edward Norton is still in this right? How come we keep hearing about Hopkins Hopkins and more Hopkins?? His only talent is playing the same exact creepy old guy over and over... Granted it's pretty interesting to watch with his accent and whatnot and he seems smart... But the reason people only know him for Hannibal is that every character he does is just a weaker, less creepy version of Lecter. It's not impressive.. he's just got the Karma about him.. Like jack nichleson and tom cruise and maybe keanu reeves if he had karma. I'm about as equally interested in Norton's roll as in Lecter.. He can be equally if not more creepy with a dash of karma than Hopkins.. Like in Primal Fear. Next time you do a report on this movie I say write at least a paragraph for Norton somewhere in the midst of your 4 page long essay on Hannibal Lecter's mask and ...For everyone that thinks I don't realize that this was a documentary on Hopkins.. Shut up... He said there were clips with Graham who I'm assuming is Norton.. And since the topic is the movie and not the documentary.. Could you at least mention his name or something?
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It's cool gilbertson. no hard feelings :)
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Brian Cox was fine as Lector in a movie that was one notch up from a USA cable flick. I happen to love the movie even with its digressions from the book and the so-so performance from Peterson and the sometimes flat directing by Mann. Hard not to love the flaming wheelchair and smashing through the window scenes. Hopkins is a superior Lector in SOTL, no doubt about it, and the movie is several rungs above MANHUNTER in terms of overall quality. The main villains in both movies are damned fine actors, but Foster has it all over Peterson as the lead investigator. Now, as for Ronny Cox. He could easily play Lector. Watched him again in TOTAL RECALL the other day. What a bad guy! At the very least, he could be Norton's boss.
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Where is the tidbits on Ed Norton? I want to hear some of his comments/see some of his footage. I like Lecter, he ownz - but, Norton could give Sir Anthony a run for his money on the coolness scale. And, Fiennes (SP?) should be one fucked up badguy. He was EVIL in Schindlers List. Very Evil. The scenes where he wakes up and has a brisk morning Sinper Fest were screwed up - and he played them well. I want to see what kind of sick shit he does in this flick. I just hope he ain't no Bed Wetter.
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I am excited as hell for red dragon, hopkins is the man - my only worry is the speed at what they have created this prequel, hope its not gonna spoil it, chianti, chianti, chainti - oh stop whinning
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Oh, and I also think that Hopkins is too old to play Lecter. They waited TOO LONG to shoot "Hannibal". Shooting "Red Dragon" now, with a really old Lecter just doesn
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French and Saunders, did a brilliant spoof of SOTL. The sketch showed how stupid some of the scenes were. One example is when they locked Lecter in a cage in the middle of a room withonly two guards and all the remaining guards downstairs, instead of a MAXIMUM SECURITY police cell guarded by many police officers. Another took the piss out of Starling visiting Buffalo Bill's house with no backup. It truly showed how crap SOTL really was. A Yuppie horror film people called it. The most terryfing film ever made. WTF? Now Manhunter is a different story. It suffers from the 80's flashy style, but most stuff produced and set in the 80's looked like that. Michael Mann should re-film Manhnter like he did LA Takedown, which as everyone knows, became Heat.
By the way. George Lucas was raised a methodist. -
Thomas Harris was a great author back in the 70s-80s ("Hannibal" was pure hackwork) but he could never write plausible endings, and "Red Dragon" has a doozy with Graham's wife blowing away Dollarhyde on the beach. Stupid Harold Robbins stuff, especially after all the great measured and scary material that came before. Michael Mann, God bless him, put the climax where it belonged and made sure it was Graham himself who unloaded that Charter Bulldog into Dollarhyde. One of the stills from the new version shows Graham teaching his wife to shoot, which leads me to fear they're going back to the book's cheesy ending.
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