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Anybody Want To Talk About Tuesday Night's BUFFY_Rerun''

I am – Hercules!!

They got! The Mus-tard! Oooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut!

And I continue to be astonished by the sheer widescreeny genius of “Once More With Feeling,” the very musical “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” episode that aired on UPN Tuesday Night.

It remains one of life’s most pitiless ironies that “Buffy’s” weakest season produced its best episode. Yes, you hear correctly. In the months since its first airing, Herc has grown convinced that “Once More” is the very best hour of “Buffy” ever forged. It makes me laugh the way “Hush” did, it makes me cry the way “The Body” did, it makes me marvel in ways “Restless” did, it makes me cheer the way “Becoming” did.

And it gets better every time I see it. (And, by the way, we’re not unaware of the fact that if “Once More” is the best “Buffy” ever, it follows that it’s one of the greatest hours of TV, and in fact one of the finest hours of entertainment ever grafted to celluloid. Toss the rocks and the garbage at my skull till I'm a dead and headless Herc, but I’ll die conviced that “Once More” belongs right up there alongside “It’s a Wonderful Life,” “The Godfather” and “Raiders of the Lost Ark” as one of the funnest things on the planet to own on videotape.)

Why all the love? So many reasons - but for all its towering angst, “Once” was a high-water mark for the characters’ emotional lives, and a real love-fest. We see how thoroughly Xander loves Anya, and vice versa. We see how much the two Englishmen love their slayer, and vice versa. (You want proof that Spike’s love for Buffy is the real thing? Note that he was immune to the singing spell until the Buffster paid him a visit.) We see how completely Willow loves Tara, and it will always annoy me no end that we didn’t hear at least a hint of “Under Your Spell” as Willow cradled her dying love a dozen or so episodes later. There was nothing halfway about the way those girls felt about each other, and I’ll always be glad they at least shared that last day of naked bliss before Warren mucked things up so completely.

Oh, and? “Once” boasts those amazing melodies, and those quotable lyrics, and the dancing, and the deliriously special special effects. How would a “Buffy” movie top it? (Not that we wouldn’t want Team Whedon to try!) If “Once More With Feeling” doesn’t finally garner an Emmy, then the Emmys will remain forever as meaningless as the Oscars. Joss Whedon is a just a damn genius, and it’s a shame that the TV academy is the last to recognize the obvious.

If my heart could beat, it would break my chest! But I can see that you’re unimpressed …

I am – Hercules!!

Life isn’t bliss. Life is just this. It’s living …

Readers Talkback
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  • July 2, 2002, 11:59 p.m. CST

    Worst season ever.

    by The-Warrior

    But Herc is dead on, best epsiode. Ever. See you in Hell.

  • July 2, 2002, 11:59 p.m. CST

    Bad news about Emmy

    by FutureSteve It wasn't even on the ballot!

  • July 3, 2002, 12:03 a.m. CST


    by Novelty

    is right. Great episode. Great show. I disagree that this was the worst season, however. But them's small potatoes.

  • July 3, 2002, 12:04 a.m. CST

    Its too bad they trimmed it down this time around

    by Sirius

    Fortunately I still had it on videotape from when it was first aired. :) After the re-broadcast was over I popped the tape in the VCR and watched the uncut brilliance all over again. It mkes me bemoan the dreadfully long time before I can buy it on DVD. Sigh.

  • July 3, 2002, 12:06 a.m. CST

    Nothing wrong with the past season

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    I mean it wasn't great, but it was better than the Adam crap and 99% of everything else on TV.

  • July 3, 2002, 12:23 a.m. CST

    I'm . . .

    by Hamlet3145

    . . . fairly certain that this: " We see how completely Willow loves Tara, and it will always annoy me no end that we didn

  • July 3, 2002, 12:30 a.m. CST

    Why this was the Worst. Season. Ever.

    by The-Warrior

    Okay, Joss is good and I like Joss and all that other shit and coming from me, that should mean something. I'm the angriest person in the history of the world and me saying I like someone should be enough for you, you selfish pricks. The first seven episode of this season were great. At least as good as season two or five, better than one and nothing will ever be as good as four (I love four. Fuck you, that's why). Then Giles went bye-bye. Then Joss went bye-bye. Then there was and episode or ten where Spike and Buffy have hate-sex. Here's why that is all bad: One, Joss is one of the three best TV writers currently typing things on planet earth (Sorkin and Chase are the other two...Amy Sherman-whatever from Gilmore Girls is a close fourth...Oh how I love Gilmore Girls...Shut UP.) and when Jossy bailed so went season six. Firefly? Really? What the fuck, man. Star Trek already had a subversive, action-packed clone, it was called Deep Space Nine and the Black guy from Spenser For Hire was awesome. No fucking spaceships Joss. Fox has buried you. Friday nights? You are buried. Cancelled in three weeks, six tops. Let it fucking go. Come home, Joss. For fuck's sake, you didn't even write the finale, which, other than than the breaky-crayon line, was terrible. Giles. The show needs exposition. I mean, come on, there's fucking monsters and karate every week, somebody has to explain it, add some fucking gravity to it, explain WHY the MONSTERS and KARATE are IMPORTANT. Otherwise, it is just monsters and karate. Third, I don't care how depressed Buffy was, she doesn't start fucking Spike. Spike is my favorite male character on the show, I have nothing against Spike, but the guys fucking pick-up technique is jam his fingers in Buffy's snatch. He fingerbangs her into submission. Broads generally don't dig that. This was not a real relationship. It wasn't even a believable fucdk-buddies situation. It was started too simply and ended too abruptly. It was the kind of thing that should have torn everybody apart. It should have ripped the Scoobies that how you spell assunder? Anyway, Buffy getting nailed by a guy that's tried to MURDER EVEYBODY on the fucking show should cause ripples. Willow should not have been fine with it. Speaking of Willow, what's her deal? She decides to end the world WHY exactly? And then stops WHY exactly? I don't get it. I'm now going to fix all the problems on the show. Joss will write five episodes. Jane Espenson will write five too...I love Jane Espenson. Marti Noxon will be beaten severly. She'll write none. She can write Firefly. Giles will be in Sixteen episodes. Willow will spend half the season being awkward and cute and will have to earn everyone's trust back. Then she'll just be cute and awkward. Super-confident Willow girl is not remotely interesting or lovable. She bores me. I love awkward cute Willow with all my heart. Anya will kill Xander, or...I don't know, I'm thinking Anya having superpowers the likes of which CAN CHANGE THE WHOLE WORLD should play a big part...Maybe somebody wishing that things were like the way they used to be and Bang, we're back to high school for a cool three episode arc. Cool huh? Just a thought. And Xander...put the fucking fork down. Run a lap. Drop thirty pounds and you'll be much funnier. This is the only guy that gets fat and turns less funny. Belushi? Fat equals funny. Farley? Fatty falls down, everybody laughs. Brendon? He carbs up and turn into a slug. Spike...I have no clue what to do with Spike. Take the chip away and make him evil. Evil with a soul. Serial Killers have souls. Make him so very scary evil. That where I come off. This is my favorite show and I was disappointed as fuck by this season's last dozen episodes. I want greatness. I demand greatness. And yeah, Herc's write, this is the best Buffy ever...can't get the "Where do we go..." song out of my fucking head. I'm the guy that's been banned fourteen times. The champion of the world. Your Hero. See you in Hell.

  • July 3, 2002, 12:35 a.m. CST

    this wasn't the worst season... was it?

    by kobayashi

    I enjoyed season six. There were some great episodes and great happenings... the nerd trio, Warren, Spike n' Buffy love, the death of Tara. The thing that hurt season six was not the 'darkness', as Joss and ME seem to be blaming - it was the soap opera to the whole thing. "Once More With Feeling" had everything set up perfectly... the payoff just never came together in the right way. Xander and Anya should be married right now. Spike and Buffy should be in love and Spike should be human. Dawn should be mysterious and powerful. And Willow should be their leader - the all-powerfull witch who treads on the dark side. No drug storyline, no sex-for-sex sake storyline, no cold feet. OMWF is 'classic' Buffy - thats what makes it so great. After re-watching season two on the DVD set I've noticed how much of a change the show has made over the years. 'Surprise', 'Innocence', 'Becoming' - these episodes hold the best arc of the show's history. Nothing will ever top it. 'OMWF' felt like it could have fit into the season two - season three timeframe... but you could never bring 'Becoming' into season six.

  • July 3, 2002, 12:52 a.m. CST

    ummmmmm, Herc...

    by ArchDiver

    I think Becoming 1&2 were outstanding, but I never felt the urge to cheer. It was one of the most tragic arcs- excuse me, the MOST tragic arc- in the history of the show. Buffy's mom learns of her slayerhood, causing a fight that caused a serious rift between Buff and mom. Willow's hospitalized. Spike betrays Angelus to get Dru back. Buffy is forced to fight the love of her life to prevent the coming apopcalypse. Xander performs his most cravenly act ever by not telling Buffy what Willow was doing (Yes, this is worse than the wedding. He screwed up happiness for himself and his love in that case. For selfish reasons, in Becoming he was messing with Buffy's chances of reconciling with her lover, and not having to kill him. Much worse.) Buffy has to send Angel to hell to seal the portal, and it ends with her running away from Sunnydale. Where do you feel the need to stand up and applaud?.... ok, the swordfight was pretty cool. AD out

  • July 3, 2002, 12:54 a.m. CST

    quit yer bit**in

    by SirSlayer

    aw common herc... weakest seasons? for christs sake, you swooned over most of this seasons episodes... brazingly called yourselfs dedicated fans then rip it a new one? so tired of people saying it was too dark... and moaning over the loss of tara(insert evil willow mockery mode... 'mom... buffy... tara... wah'). it was a complex season, and i love it more with every fresh episode... and I refuse to denounce it :) buffy seems a hell of alot more grounded now with its darkness... it imitated true life well... alot of evil happens, alot of people make stupid decisions, and we all suffer. hell if you wanna escape it, just find yourself a channel playing 'threes company!!!' ;) can't wait for season 7!

  • July 3, 2002, 1:14 a.m. CST

    THE greatest episode in t.v. history, folks!

    by Eugene O

    Except for the singing. And the lyrics. And the plot.

  • July 3, 2002, 1:44 a.m. CST

    Great Episode...But , I'd still cast my vote for "Hush: as b

    by Monkeybrains

    Really apples and oranges. Both were outstanding episodes, but I have never forgotten how i was glued to the set the first time Hush aired. I know a lot of people are tired of that episode getting so much praise, but it was that good. Favorite season for me was 3, followed closly by #2. And if 6 was the worst, I'll take more like it. 1000 times better than most anything else.

  • July 3, 2002, 1:53 a.m. CST

    My fave would have to either "Passion or The Zeppo"

    by GravyAkira

    That breakdown scene between Giles and Buffy at the end of "Passion" gets me every time. And "The Zeppo" is probably the best mix of humar and action out of all the Buffy episodes.

  • July 3, 2002, 2:01 a.m. CST


    by guero

    "Once More..." is Emmy quality writing, but it won't get recognized because it doesn't stand alone. Non-regular viewers -- which I'm sure most of the voters are -- wouldn't understand it's context. That's what made "Hush" such a popular episode. You didn't really need to know the mythology of the show to appreciate it. So, is Giles back for good?

  • July 3, 2002, 2:07 a.m. CST

    TheEnigma is right!!

    by Matt Martinez

    First of all, I feel that season four was the weakest of them all (containing the weakest episode of the entire series, "Beer Bad"). I just felt that it was not hitting heights that it should have been, due to the fact that the college setting was so rife with possibilities that they left untapped. Then again, it did come directly after the two best seasons of the show (and after the most rousing two-part episode, "Graduation Day"; I cheered more during that than I did during "Becoming," Herc), so maybe that raised my expectations a bit too highly. In fact, that could be what the problem with season six is. Season five, while not as great as two and three, was near-perfect and contained my personal favorite episode of the series, "The Body." (While I love "OMwF," I contend that "The Body" is the single greatest episode of a TV series I've ever seen.) But I do think season six is much better than a lot of people give it credit for. Let me explain by going back to the end of season one. When the last line of the season was, "We just saved the world. I say we party," something didn't feel right to me. I mean, Buffy *died* fer goshsakes. But then came "When She Was Bad," which showed Buffy going through post-traumatic stress from that very thing. Since I first saw them as reruns on FX, I got to see them back-to-back and the sheer power those episodes carried made me understand what a special show Buffy is. (Boy, I hadn't seen anything yet!) Season six is somewhat comparable, albeit without the "let's party" moment beforehand. (The epitaph on Buffy's tombstone certainly sums up the entire series better than the aforementioned line.) Any other show would have brought the heroine back to life, said, "Hooray! She's back!" and gone about business as usual after maybe one episode of reflection. This time, Whedon and Co. took "When She Was Bad" and stretched it to a whole season. "But that's such a downer!" I hear you say. Well, while I can't speak from experience, I would imagine it would take most people a lot longer than the roughly nine months during which the season takes place to recover from dying, going to heaven and then being ripped from it by their friends if they recover at all. It felt very real to me... except for all the... well, you know what I mean. And am I the only one who thought the season six finale was on par with the rest of them? I was already in tears when Xander started talking about the yellow crayon, but when Buffy tells Dawn that she wants to "see [her] friends happy again" and that she wants to see the woman Dawn will become "because she'll be strong and she'll be beautiful" I completely lost it. And then it ends with Spike... Heh heh heh. And with that, I feel we have the setup for what could potentially be one of the best seasons of all. Here's hoping Buffy becomes the new librarian at Sunnydale High and begins teaching Dawn how to slay! And even though I know this would cause a backlash the likes of which we've never seen, I hope that Xander and Willow end up together. (Re: the whole lesbian thing, I never got the idea that Willow just became gay, just that she had decided not to limit herself to only men when she discovered that she and Tara were kindred spirits. In other words, had Tara not been a woman and still been Tara, they'd have still fallen in love. Okay, yes, I understand that being a woman was integral to who Tara was but... Oh, never mind. Anyway, I never quite understood why they didn't stay together during season three after they were found out.) And to those of you whining about Spike's situation being too similar to Angel, I just say that I have complete faith in the creative team and so should you. They've given us roughly five and a half years of spectacular television (three more if you count Angel) and I think we're going to get another one.

  • Everybody says season six sucked, and I might agree that it wasn't as good as the rest of the past seasons. It was way too depressing and the trio of geeks was probably the worst villians to show up on the show. To me though, I think this season is the most relatable to most people - addiction (Willow), bad relationships (Buffy & Spike), neglection (Dawn), cold feet (Xander and Anya), death (Tara), and being forced to grow up (Giles leaving them). This show constantly makes it a point to cover every problem we face in life - some subtle, some metaphorically, but this season seemed to cover most of what everyone goes through. That awkward transition into becoming an adult and facing the hardships of life. The gang isn't in high school. They're not in college. In season six, they were on their own. Buffy was resurrected from her grave and became depressed because she was pulled out of heaven. Her estrangement from her friends and the world - that hit so close to home to me. Even though I didn't have a friend to do a spell and have me crawl out of my grave, it was still personal. Metaphorically, that's what I felt when I tried to kill myself a couple of years ago. When I woke up in the hospital, it felt like someone pulled me out and force me back into a world I didn't know or wanna be in. "It took a long time for that feeling to go away," Buffy tells Giles in the season finale. I couldn't have said it better.

  • July 3, 2002, 2:21 a.m. CST

    Season 7

    by Joey9775

    I agree 100% that "once more.." is the finest hour in Buffy history. But, all this talk about season seven has gotten me really excited and I think they might find some way to top it. The fact that the high school is coming back is like a return of an old character. Man, I miss the days of season two and three. And since this is the last season I'm gonna predict that the final episode (written by Joss of course) will be one of the most gut wrenching hours of tv ever. They'll make us remember every good and bad moment and then make you realize that it's ending.

  • July 3, 2002, 2:26 a.m. CST

    methinks Herc is wrong on 1 point:

    by OgieOglethorpe

    Right before he starts singing, Spike seems to be in a real big hurry to usher the Buffster out the door. To me at least, this points to him not being immune to the effects of the Dance Fever craze as he so claims; he just doesn't want her to see (or hear) him do his Travolta impression... think about it.. ]-)

  • July 3, 2002, 3:17 a.m. CST

    As we are on this best episode thing...

    by Larry of Arabia

    I'd have to vote for Graduation Day pt. 2, Band Candy, The Body, OMWF, and Hush. As far as TV episode of all time? The 2nd season ender of the West Wing, the pilot of an old show with David Hyde-Pierce where he was part of a political family and kept trying to kill himself (It lasted 3 episodes but includes the single funniest sight gag ever on tv durring one of his many, many failed suicide attempts)and of course anything with the Monkey-Cam on the old Letterman. But hell, it's all subjective..

  • July 3, 2002, 3:31 a.m. CST

    My favorite season

    by fuldamobil

    I was only a sporadic Buffy watcher before this season, but I didn't miss an episode this year. I think finally this show has matured. And HUSH is overrated. It's a fun episode, but not the best.

  • July 3, 2002, 3:38 a.m. CST

    More best episodes ever...

    by Monkeybrains

    That West Wing was a great episode. I would agree with you there. Another for me was the In-Bred family episode of X-Files, "Home" I believe it was called. Funniest half hour was "The Contest" on Seinfeld. The "Leave it to Beaver" where Beav falls into that large cup of soup. But the greatest episode of any show ever was that Six Million Dollar Man one where Steve Austin (the REAL Steve Austin) has to defuse that bomb on the Liberty Bell. Talk about action packed!!!! ... Back to Buffy..."the puppet show", "homecoming" "Graduation Day, Part 1 & 2. ...

  • July 3, 2002, 3:48 a.m. CST

    Two things, Herc

    by Bob X

    First of all, there's nopthing wrong with season six. Yes, there were some uneven episodes (like the abysmal one with Riley and who could forget Doublemeat Palace) but the season overall was still a step forward and (as always) on the whole better than the ones before it - and much better than Angel's third season which also had some strong episodes). You heard me. Second, why is there a discussion about shortened reruns of admittedly great episodes instead of what everybody REALLY wants: A GODDAMN FARSCAPE TALKBACK!!! Get with the times, Herc - and get over your Muppetphobia.

  • July 3, 2002, 4:16 a.m. CST

    you all are wrong

    by MAlkovich

    six feet under is by far the best television show on TV and then followed by first 12 episodes of 24, buffy sucks and the only reason you nerds like it is because SMG is hot, but it is a dumb show which has no merit and is painful to watch if you dont stare intensely at her tits!

  • July 3, 2002, 4:18 a.m. CST

    the ironic thing is

    by MAlkovich

    all of u nerds who watch buffy because of this hot chick liked the musical episode the best...maybe i was wrong you guys like it for xander (who i assume is a guy because i haven't had the stomach to watch a whole episode)

  • July 3, 2002, 4:54 a.m. CST

    Yes, Season 6 did suck

    by hellboy15

    Heres why season six pissed me off. Not because of the reasons the people who loved the season claim people hate it. The characters grow up, great. Turn willow, the pureist character on the show evil, go for it. Kill tara, fine with me. But when Buffy comes back from the dead, and finds that Tara and Willow are living in her house, using her mothers insurance money to live off of, and tells buffy "Oh crap, we spent all of your money living here rent free, and now you have to get a job or loose the house, and we'll be up in your dead mothers room snuggling and looking cute, and letting you pay for everything while we live in the master bedroom rent-free". That pisses me off. Also, this show has always been feminist, but I'm tired of having it drilled into my head what bastards males are. Buffys dad left, Angel left, Oz left, Giles left, Riley left, and now for no good reason Xander leaves Anya at the alter. All the male characters on this show leave or screw up in every way possible. I know were supposed to like Tara and Dawn, and hate Spike, but not all females are strong, but sensitive, cute but also powerful. And all men arent weak scared horny assholes that can't control themselves. I know theres a feminist message, but come on, we get it already. There is also a stong lack of accountability in some corners, and too much in others. Xander is terrible for hurting cute little Anya, but she did kill god knows how many people over the years with her god like power. One character who is forgiven for killing I can buy, but weve got a bunch of them. Not only is willow not going to be held truely accountable for killing Warren (that would involve years of jail, which I somehow doubt we will see), but they want us to forget thier mammoth plot hole in Herc's favorite episode, the fact that Xander is responseable for the deaths of many people. Its okay for Xander and willow to kill people but the writers want us to hate spike because he almost kinda sorta raped buffy, rape is serious, but when thier entire relationship is made up of encounters just like that, only ending with buffy letting spike hit that, its a little harder to get mad at him. How many times did we see this Spike: I know you want me Buffy: I do not Spike: Yes you do, and to prove it I will attack you Buffy: Oh no now i must wrestle with you, oh wait, I do want to fuck you So when spike tries the exact same thing, I can almost see where hes coming from. Im not defending rape, im saying they weakend thier own point by having buffy WANT him to push her into sex the whole season. Many of the other things have already been pointed out, such as willow's decent being treated as an addiction so thier cute little willow can't be held totally acountable, and storys that went nowhere such as dawns cleptomania. And another thing, in the last episode, why the hell did willow stand outside thier brand spankin new police station set(thier very happy with it, after they get it look how much it shows up)pulling bricks out for twenty minutes, giving buffy plenty of time to save the Duo, instead of just walking in a freakin door. I just watched it thinking, this is so stupid, all she has to do is walk in there. Maybe it sounded good on paper. These are just a few of a whole grocery list of complaints, some are forgiveable, but so many add up to the weakest season ever, Farscape has become my new favorite show. Even though yes, buffy is still better than anything but farscape, I hold it to a higher standard of writing than it has delivered as of late.

  • July 3, 2002, 4:57 a.m. CST


    by hellboy15

    I swear when I wrote that it wasn't one big paragraph, just imagine different paragraphs where it seems like they should be, nobody told me we get no skipped lines.

  • July 3, 2002, 5:35 a.m. CST

    MAlkovich- uh, WE'RE the nerds?

    by cozmicmonkeychow

    In the words of the ever so quotable Phoebe, "Hello, Kettle? This is the Pot. You're Black!" You're the one who comes trolling into a forum for a show you don't even LIKE, just to tell the rest of us we're dumb for liking it. Yea, I think that would make you the bigger lameass... now, go do the world a favor and go play in traffic or something.

  • July 3, 2002, 5:41 a.m. CST

    oh, and one more thing...

    by cozmicmonkeychow

    I wonder when people are going to figure out that the terms like "geek", "nerd", "loser" etc, aren't really considered insulting around here.... on a different note, I realize I may have lost quite a bit of credibility by quoting "Friends" in my last post. It will not happen again. =)

  • July 3, 2002, 6:35 a.m. CST

    Once More With Feeling CD???

    by mo_moses

    I heard they were going to release it? Whats Happened?

  • July 3, 2002, 7:06 a.m. CST

    First time seeing it

    by burningbabyfish

    I really really liked this ep. I missed it the first time around, unfortunately, because I could tell they hacked it for time. BOOO! The opening credits made me smile. So cheesy but so fun. Was generally impressed Tony Head and Amber Benson's singing ability, though I knew ASH was good. Highlights: Under Your Spell and Giles/Tara duet. I'm with Herc after seeing the musical - they should have included some of that in Tara's death scene. (Bastards) Anyhoo, I agree, Joss is still deserving of an Emmy - but I'm not even remotely going to get hopeful about it, because they seem to pointedly ignore this little show that makes some of the best stuff on TV. If they ignored The Body - I don't know how they're going to give an Emmy to OMWF, though I wish they would.

  • July 3, 2002, 7:11 a.m. CST

    Buffy: The Musical...

    by Otter

    I never got to see the first showing of this, but it was pretty good. Some of the music and lyrics were pretty banal, but all in all, it was pretty entertaining. Especially the bedroom scene with Willow and Tara, where Willow's head disappears and Tara begins to ecstatically float above her bed...boner alert, anyone?

  • July 3, 2002, 7:15 a.m. CST

    This is just fudged up!

    by The Tao of Joe

    This is a perfect example of what is so very wrong with aicn coaxial. Herc gets down on his knees here to stroke the cock of a buffy RERUN! A RERUN THAT HE ALREADY COVERED WHEN THE EPISODE CAME OUT LAST WINTER!!! Meanwhile, lets see, 44 minutes of never before seen Bruce Lee footage premeired on AMC yesturday, the world cup finals were pre-empted by many american television stations to make way for sunday morning news magazine shows this sunday, someone got caught cheating on american idol and had to be kicked out (I didnt watch, but it would have been nice to have the scoop so I wouldnt have to, and be able to know what everyone was talking about at work the next day). We got all of this newsworthy stuff going on right now, and Herc, the poor buffy junkie that he is (he is so bad he listed Angel as one of the best 50 tv shows of all time for chrissakes!), decides to only mention this re-run episode instead of say, something new, current, and relevant. And you Buffy fans, no longer will I tolerate you using the talk backs of other shows, or even worse, movies to talk about buffy again. Obviously if they use bandwith to let you yuck it up about a re-run, you have more than enough opportunities on this site to say whatever you want to about this show. Really, I get tired of hearing of fans, aside from the ones who are female or gay (meaning, men who exclusively prefer men sexually, and not some passive agressive gay bashing attempt at character assasination), talk about how many times they have yanked their pud to the hot chicks in this show (which aside from Females and gays, make up the only other *major* demographic of people who watch this program). I would almost dare say that Buffy is little more than a slightly better written Baywatch with Vampires (think about it, sexy lifeguards, trying to stem the tide of evil beings on earth), but I wont go there.

  • July 3, 2002, 7:19 a.m. CST


    by Leon

    I'm fairly new to buffy and angel and to the talkbacks so bear with me here, but in 'Becoming' we see Angel before he meets Buffy and he's like some sort of homeless bum ever since he was cursed, wandering the streets and sewers and in in the second series of Angel we see him in the 50's and he looks like he's doing just fine. So what happened? As far as I know there hasn't been an explanation for this. I'm hoping someone here can help me out cos it's getting right on my tits now, not knowing.

  • July 3, 2002, 7:30 a.m. CST

    A lot of craziness going on in this thread...

    by Rosie_Cotton

    1. How exactly is Xander responsible for the death of anybody, in OMWF or any episode, please? I have no idea what you are talking about. 2. Haha, it always cracks me up when I talk to people who think they're hot shit and watch 'serious television'. Buffy's so unrealistic and silly, I watch 'serious' television. Maybe that corncob stuck up your ass is the reason you have hemorroids. God, what an absolute laugh!

  • July 3, 2002, 7:51 a.m. CST

    Not the worst season..that goes to season four but..

    by Lauryn2000

    definately not the best season of the series.But Once Again,was an excellent musical episode.Rank it up there with Xena's Bitter Suite.Just as long as Buffy doesn't break out in song and dance again.

  • July 3, 2002, 8:52 a.m. CST

    xander's responsibility

    by asiling0712

    Xander is the one who called the sing and dance demon to Sunnydale so that he can find out his and Anya's true feelings about one another. In the meantime, plenty of innocent people danced themselves to a nice fiery death. His actions do bring about the death of some people, and that is really never explored.

  • July 3, 2002, 8:56 a.m. CST

    re: Xander's Responsibility

    by onetrueking

    Well, I think they kind of let him slide considering that he's helped save the world a couple of times.

  • July 3, 2002, 9:12 a.m. CST


    by asiling0712

    Isn't that the same reasoning Faith used in Consequenses? If it didn't wash for her, why should it wash for Xander? Mind you, Faith had the opportunity to redeem herself and chose not to. But, she was forced to deal with the fact that she'd killed someone. I'm not saying it should have been a huge big deal. It's just that no one seemed to even get terribly upset with Xander over the whole thing. And really, that was part of what was wrong with the whole season. The Scoobies started to believe their own hype. They were all so convinced that they were the good guys saving the world and all, that the inherent character that initially led them to fight evil started to rot away and they each dabbled in something that could be interpreted as bad or evil.

  • July 3, 2002, 9:31 a.m. CST

    This "hot girls theory" ...

    by Hercules

    There are still some talkbackers who think "Buffy" is held in such esteem because it has hot girls? I ask you: what TV show - comedy, drama or reality - DOESN'T have hot girls on it? It's like saying people really like "Buffy" because it's in color. *** BTW, tonight (Wednesday) UPN rebroadcasts the sixth season's second-best episode, "Life Serial" (the one in which Buffy battles the mummy hand and goes on a bender with Spike).

  • July 3, 2002, 9:54 a.m. CST

    "If my heart could beat, it would break my chest"

    by LeeScoresby

    Ahhhhh....I LOVE that moment in RIP. The whole organ/oasis-y melody thing raises my hackles every time. This was the first Buffy episode I ever watched in its entirety, and it hooked me on the show. It's one of the best pieces of entertainment I've ever seen.

  • July 3, 2002, 9:57 a.m. CST

    nothing pisses me off more than...

    by PriestYoungblood

    People in talkbacks who actually have no opinion, just spouting crap. That was directed at the guy above who admitted to only watching 1 and 1/2 episodes, and concluding Xander is "guy". I'm pretty sure he means gay, and pretty sure he's a moron too (the poster, not Xander). ANYWAY. This episode rocked. It rocked the second time around, and I'm FURIOUS with myself for not taping it. AGAIN. The performances were great, the singing, while not all good (SMG is actually pretty awful) were at least very heartfelt. But for me, the biggest props go to the demon himself, does anyone know who that was? His tap-dancing, pulling out his mouth, that sly grin - excellent. one of the best one-shot villains. I have to agree with The Warrior, (who I remember from waaaay back in the talkbacks, where you been man? Changing ID's like me I bet) that the Buffy-Spike "romance" was a TERRIBLE aspect to this season. Spike is a great character, and I want to see him back as the snarling, sneering bad boy he once was. The castrated wimp sucked balls. Make him baaad again. Spike's greatest moment - tossing the kid, the Annointed one, into the cage and lifting it into the sun in Season 2. Back when he was FUNNY. Although his exit line from the last number in Once More was a riot too.

  • July 3, 2002, 10:06 a.m. CST


    by bedidi

    I agree --- one of the best eps. ever! It was heartbreaking when Dawn sang her solo of how alone she felt! Team WHedon totally captured the emotions of all the characters in each lyric! Joss is a genius!!!

  • July 3, 2002, 10:11 a.m. CST


    by YouStupidGeeks

    Season 1 was great, campy fun Season 2 was when it started getting really great Season 3 and onward stupendously awesome taking My So called lifes place as best show ever. Each season has been better then the last, I am sorry, SEASON 6 WORST EVER? WHA? THAT WAS SEASON 1, which was still great but had the worst villian (except for maybe Adam)and no real storylines yet. On watching the musical episode for the 3rd time, the cut 1 hour version, It lacks something. Not the best of the season, maybe not even top 3 of the season now I think. It lost some of its magic. My girlfriend saw it for the first time and thought it was corny. In fact many huge Buffy fans think that too. I still think it is genious and great, but maybe seeing it 3 times, and listening to the CD I made about 50, it still doesnt hold the magic. BUT DO NOT CALL THIS SEASON THE WORST, IT WAS THE BEST SEASON IN THE HISTORY OF TELEVISION!!!!

  • July 3, 2002, 10:12 a.m. CST


    by LeeScoresby

    If one word of what you wrote is true, I feel truly sorry for you. You watch Jag just to give it ratings and tape buffy? Man...that's do you justify that? No tv show is worth the sort of behavior you;ve described.

  • July 3, 2002, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Worst Season?

    by gotaskie

    While I agree that OMWF is one of the finest hour and 9 minutes ever created and one of the top 5 episodes of Buffy, I cannot possibly agree that it came from the worst season in the show's history. To say that would be to pretend that Season 4 never existed. Season 4 fails in comparision to every other season including Season 1 when the characters were still figuring out their place in the Buffy-verse and the show seemed somewhat aimless. Season 5 was the best season, in my opinion, due in large part to Spike's unrequitted love, which was the only bright spot of Season 4. Riley was totally undeserving of existence and I was disappointed to see him even return for Season 5, let alone darken my doorway for a single hour of S6. While I wasn't crazy about the Trio, Buffy's relationship with Spike made perfect sense and followed a logical line. Spike loves Buffy, Buffy needs to escape from her life, from the friends who dragged her from Heaven, from the sister that is too much responsibility, she's still numb about being alive and seeks out anything, and Spike is there, people often fall into sex with someone they could never love, maybe to punish themselves, maybe to escape everyone else, for any reason and as Buffy came out of her shock and grew stronger, she cut off her relationship with Spike, it might not have been done with bravado and a huge catalyst or climax, but that's how real-life is, not every ending needs fireworks and explosions and it made sense. Xander leaving Anya at the altar fit his personality perfectly...Xander can rush into battle and face anything for a friend because he's not afraid of dying, he's afraid of living, deep down he's scared to death of letting everyone down and ruining the live's of others, his own is already ruined in his mind, but everyone else is better than him and has a better chance of happiness and sucess if they don't have to count on him. This season was great, not as good as S5 or S2, but third on the list

  • July 3, 2002, 10:40 a.m. CST


    by Wardlittel

    Just wait for all the for-shodowing in season 6 for season 7. It will make you love!!!Love!!!love!!! Season 6.

  • July 3, 2002, 10:41 a.m. CST


    by PriestYoungblood

    why are you here again? You hate all the Buffy news, so you come here and READ the Buffy news. Get a life kid. Read the stuff you're interested in, or that you think will make you laugh, and ignore the rest. That's what smart, rational, non-trolling, fun loving folks do. Don't be such an ass.

  • July 3, 2002, 10:54 a.m. CST

    re: Xander's responsibility

    by gotaskie

    That always did bother me about this episode...the quick, easy wrap-up. People did die because of Xander summoning a demon, much the way people died when Giles (Ripper) summoned a demon in his youth and people were still dying because of it in Season 2. Giles was furious with Xander for a love spell (in a phenomenally fun Season 2 ep.) and constantly angry with Willow for her use of magic, but never said a harsh word to Xander for this one, and in the finale everyone talks about how Willow will have to deal with taking a human life, but no one mentions that Xander should have some of the same guilt for this ep. Oh, well, still a great piece of writing, and due to time constraints it probably needed the quick wrapup, esp. when you consider that the trimmed down 1 hour repeat is lacking Buffy singing "What can't we face" which I felt was important to Gile's decision to leave the country, so not much time could be given to the ending without weakening the eps impact on the entire series

  • July 3, 2002, 11:04 a.m. CST

    Darkseed pt.2

    by PriestYoungblood

    Well, aren't you clever. No noble pursuit than annoying others for no reason other than your own petty amusement. Grow up, little fella. Choose another site and stay there. And if you want to talk about sophomoric, just read your own childish posts. Pot and the kettle man, pot and the kettle. Shouldn't you be shooting spitballs at the girls at summer camp right now anyway? You're a worthless troll and I'm done addressing you.

  • July 3, 2002, 11:05 a.m. CST, I think you missed something....

    by symon

    Great review. I agree 100% that this was Buffy's finest episode (not an easy title to win). But I think you might have made one small mistake. Spike wasn't (I don't think) immune to the singing thing before Buffy showed up. I'm pretty sure he was just saying that so that Buffy would leave before he started belting out his true feelings (which he did). Oh yeah - and is this really worse than the Riley/Adam season? In my opinion, Riley was by far the worst thing to ever happen to Buffy. And Adam, while sorta cool, was boring....

  • July 3, 2002, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Ha! Here in Ontario we got it uncut!

    by 93curr

    We got less commercials, but VR squeezed the whole uncut rerun thing into a one-hour timeslot. We win. You lose. Okay, our dollar is only worth about 18 cents, but still...

  • July 3, 2002, 11:39 a.m. CST

    Season four was far worse

    by Movieguy32

    Yes, last year had its misteps, but it was far from the worst ever. I didn't like Willow as the Big Bad. I just thought it was just too convient. I also thought Dawn was too whiny. I really pleasantly surprised in the previous season on how well Michelle Trachenberg fit into the group. The infusion of a kid in a series is usually the kiss of death (ala Oliver in the Brady Bunch or Mimi's baby in the Drew Carey Show for a more recent example), but the Dawn character reinvigorated the series. This year she was more of a prop to create a bad situation for Buffy to get her out of. That said, this season was worlds better than season four. That season almost made me turn off the show. As others has stated, Adam has to be the worst major villian ever. After two seasons of great big villians like Spike, Drusilla, Angelus, Faith, and the Mayor (my personal favorite), Adam was just boring and a Frankenstein retread. I actually liked the Frankenstein character in season two better. Another problem I have was Reilly. Could they have a more no descript, pretty boy as a love interest. I cheered like crazy when he flew off in the next season. Lastly, I think the writing team had a hard time adapting the characters to a new setting. I felt that they forced a lot of scenes to include Giles who had really no way to include himself in Buffy's life without looking like a creepy older guy hanging out with teenagers. Also, the seriously underused Spike (arguably the best regular). He got his obligitory scene, but really didn't really have a prescense in most episides. Even so, there were some real highlights in that season. Obviously, Hush is one of the best best episodes ever. I also thought the scene where Spike tries to attack Willow and she consoles him for his failure to perform and then begins to have her own fears that she isn't preety enough to eat was the one of the funniest scense of all time. Last, year was uneven, but far better than season four.

  • July 3, 2002, 11:55 a.m. CST

    As much as I love to hate Herc

    by drlloyd11

    He is so so so right about this ep. true, the season went to shit after TB, and now I'm not sure I ever want to see it again. But this ep, and this show, is brillant. Herc running a column on the rerun is fine with me, he can run a column on it daily as far as I care. Anyway, there should a large spoiler drop tommorow,and while there is no new news of Tara, if Joss ends the show with her and willow together all is forgiven.. We'll just pretend episodes 9-22 where just a bad dream..

  • July 3, 2002, 12:21 p.m. CST

    Sorry Joss - No Emmy for you.

    by Damitol

    a) You are on a backwater network. b) Your show has monsters in it. c) Some of those people can't sing or dance that well. d) Did we mention the "monsters" thing? e) You are not Frazier or Sex and the City. f) One word: monsters. Not that Buffy hasn't deserved a basket full of awards over the years, but your average academy voter will never vote for any show that does not neatly fit into a clearly defined and "safe" format. A show with monsters can't be a comedy and a show with jokes can't be a drama. Period - end of story. I recently figured out that there are only three shows on television that I go out of my way to see, Buffy, Farscape and Futurama. There is no way in hell they would ever let me into the academy.

  • July 3, 2002, 12:30 p.m. CST

    Once More With Feeling

    by LDay

    Can't agree with you more! It was an awesome episode! Did you catch Marti Noxon as the parking ticket lady and David Fury as the Mustard guy? I just wish they showed the 45 minute version.

  • July 3, 2002, 12:43 p.m. CST

    random Buffy thought...

    by the barking dog

    Some backstory. I never gave Buffy the TV show much credit or attention until I saw "Hush." I really liked the movie, and was kinda put off by the overt occult stuff I thought the show focused on from the one or two episodes I had seen previously. Then I saw "Hush" on a UPN repeat. It got me hooked. I started watching it on F/X, and now I'm proud that I've seen the show's entire run. OMWF I respect for having the cojones to put on an episode of a weekly series of that caliber, but "Hush" was the most creative thing I had ever seen, and convinced me that I could no longer neglect the series. Next to "The Simpsons," it's now my favorite.

  • July 3, 2002, 1:03 p.m. CST

    It is darkest before the dawn

    by Greydave

    This had been a good season period. With the Nerds of Doom and shows like Once more with Feelings, how can you say it was the worse? I'm looking forward to a lighter more kickass Buffy next season, but JW has it right. Shows need to give the fans what the need, not what they want.

  • July 3, 2002, 1:46 p.m. CST

    PriestYoungblood: The demon was...

    by Dubba

    The demon (his name is Sweet) was played by Hinton Battle. You may remember him as Cat on "Red Dwarf" or Scarecrow in "The Wiz".,+Hinton

  • July 3, 2002, 1:47 p.m. CST

    um ... not quite

    by snicky

    Herc didn't say that S6 sucked ass he said it was the show's weakest season. Big, big difference. If Herc has said that Act II of Hamlet wasn't his favorite in the play, would you have drawn the conclusion that he thought it were garbage? Sheesh ...

  • July 3, 2002, 1:48 p.m. CST

    wot evry1 else is talking about

    by theshlong

    'Seeing Red' was the best ep of season 6. Just like 'Fool for love', maybe 'the gift' aswell were the best of s5. Can you see where I'm coming from. If someone asked me to show them the best episode of buffy, I wouldn't show them a musical, or a dream, or an episode where no one talks. cus I think their reaction would be - aint watchin that again.' Whilst OMWF, Restless, Thbody, Hush are all well made they do not encapsulate what the show is about. They are special eps. They are un comparable to the rest and neither would make my top ten faves. Ask your self, could u keep watchin episodes where the whole dilouge is sung or episodes where no actual story takes place (the body). Oh by the by, how can u,who ever is was, say that the master was the worst villain. The master turned Darla, nearly opened the hellmouth and is one THE most power vamps ever to walk the earth. U don't get Buffy havin nightmares about glory, or adam. Both of whom were rediculus nemisises and degraded the quaility of the show.

  • July 3, 2002, 1:55 p.m. CST

    Hey Leon...

    by DefyThis

    Nice catch. I never actually noticed that. I mean, I *SAW* Angel as a bum, and then as the "dark and mysterious loner" cliche in "Are You Now" on AtS, but I never noticed the conflict. I suppose it's just one of those writer quirks; a little more background was needed for Angel once he had his own show, and having him a bum for a hundred years wouldn't have been all that compelling. So ME changed things a bit. They could still do an interesting storyline as a bridge... ahh well. Buffy S6 was fine, just too depressing (and I won't mention the horrid Noxon-influenced drug storyline... oops, too late). It had the amazing musical, "Smashed" (the B/S sex thing played just fine for me, those two kept the show afloat in its weaker moments), "Dead Things", and a solid finale with uber-cool Dark Willow. Hell, even Fury's "Gone" was pretty good for a mid-season one-shot filler episode. If not for the overall depression, magic as a drug storyline, and Noxon's last minute rape decision, it would have ranked much higher - as it is, it's still better than S4 or S1 (where you can see the team finding themselves, but things still didn't hit their stride till S2).

  • July 3, 2002, 1:59 p.m. CST

    another thing

    by theshlong

    What propably made S6 bad was by the end I really didn't give a shit what happend to the characters. afta Sleeping with Spike I didnt see B uffy as a hero anymore. I kinda thought willow could hav died and I wouldn't be too bothered. It wasn't the the dark themes that was bad its just I stopped caring for the characters.

  • July 3, 2002, 2:06 p.m. CST

    Funniest TV Episode Ever

    by Anton_Sirius

    The Thomas Pynchon episode of the John Larroquette Show. All 14 of you who saw it know what I'm talking about.

  • July 3, 2002, 2:09 p.m. CST


    by PriestYoungblood

    Thanks dude. I've been wondering and I missed it in the credits. Not much of a resume, but what the hell. As for whether or not this is the best episode ever, I'd say it's a tight race between this and Hush. As for best SEASON - I gotta go with two. Evil Angel, the appearance of (a much cooler) Spike, Dru - how do you top that? the Nerds of Doom were pretty fun, but really warren was the only one who was a real adversary. Though the jetpack incident was one of the funniest moments EVER. I was rolling after that one.

  • July 3, 2002, 2:14 p.m. CST

    I'm surprised nobodys pointed this out...

    by screamsteve72

    but what the hell ever happened to amy. at the end of doublemeat palace it seemed that we would be seeing a big witch fight or something in the later episodes...i actually liked this season more than most people but that storyline felt unresolved, maybe amy will be back next season.

  • July 3, 2002, 3:20 p.m. CST

    Happy to see people who care...

    by vivia89

    Absolutely agree with all here who try to search the point in BTVS. I really cannot catch what Whedon wants us to see in this context, but I really like the way everything is presented. Unfortunately I live in Europe and I haven't seen the 6th season... which means I cannot judge about it, but I think that darker is better. I think SMG cannot do anything else but dark roles where she dies, or kills herself, they really make her look talented. And everybody else is really good, they really act. It's really sad that such a good show never gets awarded, they really have style, which is really rare now, when everybody wants to catch up more viewers, so they make real bulshit sometimes. And I also disapprove shows where all the characters are dressed, like from the same boutique, fashionable, really, but they look as if they don't have personality. Anyway, Buffy really is a show of class and it's a pity Whedon won't get an award for his writing, again. Alyson Hannigan also deserves, for Supporting. The Academy can be cruel. And I also heard sth very disturbing, but it's not confirmed, have in mind, that actress Jennifer Garner of Alias told something abusing of Buffy star Sarah Michelle Gellar, I don't remember it well, but it sounded pretty nasty. I thought Garner was a good girl, ot at least that she had style, but maybe she's a Hollywood bitch like everybody. However, I'm glad someone ever talks on BTVS, cause I know no one that likes it, but myself.

  • July 3, 2002, 3:40 p.m. CST

    musical one highlight of interesting season

    by the maven

    I really don't understand why everyone hates this past season of "Buffy" so much. This is the year that at long last made me a fan of the show. From Buffy having to readjust to living (after being yanked from a "heaven"-dimension, a very nice twist on the usual, now-tired hell-dimension thing)to the "Dark Willow" finale, I thought this made for appointment TV. I used to think this was a silly show for the kids but now I'm enjoying the reruns just to watch the characters become the people they were in this past season. It was admittedly exploring some dark themes, which I understand will lighten some next season, but I hope the events of this season and their implications won't be totally disregarded next year. There's too much good material with which to work here.

  • July 3, 2002, 4:04 p.m. CST

    gotaskie and emmy

    by nny777

    Gotaskie, I completely agree about the ending. I actually enjoyed the episode more the second time I saw it, but I hate the climax. It should have been real dramatic and emotional and it did nothing for me. The revelations didn't really seem to have as much impact as they should have. Also, for everybody saying Buffy doesn't have a chance at the emmys, do any of you even realize that it's been nominated every year except last year and it's even won for music and make-up. I know it probably won't win anything this year, but I'd like to see it nominated.

  • July 3, 2002, 4:14 p.m. CST

    I hate this stupid fuckin' show

    by El Backo

    That's all I got to say.

  • July 3, 2002, 4:33 p.m. CST

    What Cuts Were Made?

    by greenplasticnav

    I taped the musical last night off of The New VR here in Canada. Here they just ran less commercials and left OMWF uncut. What cuts were made in the UPN rebroadcast?

  • July 3, 2002, 4:36 p.m. CST

    Top 5 Buffys

    by greenplasticnav

    I hadn't seen an episode of Buffy before OMWF, but as soon as I saw it I was hooked. Thanks to syndication I've now seen all 122, so here are my favourites 1. Once More, With Feeling 2. The Body 3. Hush 4. Innocence 5. Becoming Parts 1 and 2

  • July 3, 2002, 4:39 p.m. CST

    ya know what I would have liked?

    by PriestYoungblood

    If they'd drawn out the whole Dark Willow thing. If she'd been the big bad for several episodes, into the next season. I loved that whole plot line, and it would have fun to watch them explore her descent into madness type of deal. But alas. And tell me I'm not the only one who cracked up at the "Dark Phoenix" reference. OK, I'm off-episode and off-topic, but fuck it. In any event, I think that Dark Willow had more potential than tehy explored. But really I just want to see Spike back on track and Buffy out of his pants. There hasn't been a great big bad since Glory, and I think she was cool but... not great. Next season will be interesting. I hope.

  • July 3, 2002, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Agreed on the 99% better than everything else on TV

    by Jaka

    I, make that HATED Buffy for years. I think the original movie is near the worst movie ever and the first season of the show (or the 4 eps I watched) were a disgrace to the medium. But a friend convinced me to watch last season and I became hooked. My opinion, as a novice, is that EVERY episode last season was WAY better than most of what is considered "good" television. Not great, but good. Keep in mind that if I'm not watching KQED, The History, Discovery(s), or Learning channel, I'm watching Smallville, Enterprise, Alias or Buffy. Throw in a little Mtv/VH1 and that's about it for me.

  • July 3, 2002, 5:04 p.m. CST

    THE BEST EPISODE IS...................

    by moose420

    The Wish one where Cordilia wishes Buffy never came to Sunnydale and at the end everyone dies,sheer briliance i love that episode I don't know who thats the best our of Tv i've seen but It sure is the only one that sticks out. You guys have to go with me on this on right? Showing that Xyander and Willow can be bad ass and just what happins when Vamps rule I guess thats the sort of thing that e will see if the rumor about the Blade 3 plot is true which i hope it is. SO IN CONCLUSION the "WISH" Episode is best episode ever on Buffy.

  • July 3, 2002, 5:48 p.m. CST


    by hellboy15

    For the person who refuted all my points, thats fine, youve got your opinion ive got mine. But. I was mostly refering to sloppy writing and lack of cohesion on all fronts, and self immolation of storylines by making them weak and impactless in the face of previous events. I was blaming the writers, not the characters, sure thier actions make a modicum of sense because the buffy team knows enough to build or explain them away, its just that these explanations dont seem to me to work in the long term. And about Xander leaving, I know his reasons, but the vilification of all men in this series I find to be nearly offensive. In other words I know about every point you make, but I dont feel that a weak explanation by the writing team makes a story work in it's final stage. Also, as for willow and tara, bullshit, not only does a fourteen year old not need full time parenting of the type that would preclude you getting a job, not to mention keeping two people from getting a job, but once buffy came back, they still did not put one goddam penny in, buffy is forced to work at a fast food place to make ends meet while they do nothing of any value. And the funny thing is, Willow is often the one telling Buffy that she needs to go out and make more money. If you can explain this away, please do, because it bothers me.

  • July 3, 2002, 5:55 p.m. CST

    my thoughts...

    by zenda if anyone cares. Great season, in a different, maturing kind of way. Facing the human horrors (unemployment, bad relationships, addiction, etc.) I watched the musical last night and just kept shaking my head at how brilliant it was. Second best "Buffy" ever. Top moment was just watching everyone's faces when Buffy said she had been pulled out of Heaven, not Hell. But still, all in all, "The Body" is the best single hour of television I've seen. So realistic.

  • July 3, 2002, 6:49 p.m. CST

    Once more with editing

    by ogonekenobi

    what the fuck was that about they did a really shitty editing job. I missed taping the episode the first time it was shown, I do have it uncut on my computer which has a 20 inch trinitron screen though. Still I went and bought a over-priced single blank tape so I could playback on good vcr and hear it in all it's surround sound glory. Aurgggggggh!! I gues I have to wait three or four years for the episode to come out on dvd. Oh, when are they going to release an official soundtrack for the episode? I know it would sell. The one I had to jimmy-rig is not of superior quality. Other than that, good show!!!!!!!! OGOne-Kennobi has spoken!

  • July 3, 2002, 7:51 p.m. CST


    by edington

    I agree with some of Hellboy15's points - the problem with Season 6 wasn't that they made the show darker. In principle, it was a brave move to deliberately set out to make everyone depressed and depressing. They must have known they were going to get crap for it. The problem came with inconsistency in characterization and development. I'm on board with Buffy/Spike, logic-wise, because Spike was acting out of long-established motivation and Buffy had the coming back from the dead excuse. The awfulness of Season 6, IMHO, came from the forced Willow addiction (you can practically see the moment around Smashed/Wrecked when the writers decided to change from magic as power to magic as addiction, the ugginess of Xander (with the wedding), and the character assassination of Spike in Seeing Red. If they wanted to show us the ennui of early 20s, fine. But do it well. Anyway, my 2 cents.

  • July 3, 2002, 8:23 p.m. CST


    by ogonekenobi

    Your a little bitch, go look up your other favorite site? I heard the new season is great, won't you confirm? Fuck off and quit posting about shit you don't understand. OGOne-Kenobi has spoken!

  • July 3, 2002, 9:44 p.m. CST

    No, the best episode of "The Cosby Show" ever was...

    by MCVamp

    The one where the kids surprise Cliff on his birthday with a rendition of Ray Charles's "Night Time is the Right Time" on the stairs. Followed closely by Stevie Wonder's guest appearance ("Jammin' on the One") and any extended banter between Rudy and Kenny ("His name is BUD.")

  • July 3, 2002, 10:04 p.m. CST

    One small scene cut from the episode

    by OuiMai

    was Dawn's poetically placed line right after Spike saves Buffy: "the hardest thing in this world is to live in it." Or some such. It clinched what Spike was trying to tell Buffy and encompassed Buffy's anguish at the same time. I also believe the line was used in an earlier Buffy ep, does anyone remember which and who said it?

  • July 3, 2002, 10:07 p.m. CST

    Oh, and dorkseed,

    by OuiMai

    you've got annoying little sister written all over you. But you know that.

  • July 3, 2002, 10:18 p.m. CST


    by greenplasticnav

    Why would they cut that? I can't see them doing it for time, and it was perfect. Anyway, the episode you're thinking of is the season 5 finale, The Gift. Buffy says it to Dawn just before jumping into ... whatever that thing was ... that kills her. What else was cut? (The repeat aired uncut in Canada ... YAY!)

  • July 4, 2002, 12:46 a.m. CST

    My thoughts

    by Lila

    I've never posted here, so this is going to be a little ranty. I liked season 6, it was hard to watch sometimes but still better then anything else I've watched.(except for DMP) The Xander leaving Ayna thing did seem totally set up, If not in OMWF (I know every says their song was lovey-dovey, but it really wasn't. They rip on each other the entire time) then in the holloween ep. Xander is clearly scared of the comitment, and I think it's totally him to become worried that he's going to ruin someone's life. Also the Buffy/Spike thing was pretty neatly set-up. It's clear she feels he is the only one she can talk to. I don't think Willow was that far off in Intervention when she thought Buffy was sleeping with him because he was the only one not feeling sorry for her. And ofcourse Spike tried to rape her when she finally said no. He IS evil. I think it's a sign of his love that he managed to stop! She wouldn't really have been able to hold off much longer, not if she was hurt enough for him to that far in the first place. Ok, I didn't like the addiction crap for Willow either, but the writers had to do something. The rate she was going she would have been able to close the hellmouth by herself in no time. Then where does the show go? Willow the Witch would be a cool show, but what we're watching is Buffy. She has to be the stongest one or that falls apart. I also thought that they explained her fall pretty well in the season finale. People do alot of stupid things of low self esteem. I have to agree that OMWF is the best ep. of show. Maybe not by as much as everyone else thinks, t by quite a bit. To date I have personally showed that ep. to five different people, and each of them became hooked. It has everything (almost) that we love about the. Comedy, , dead-pan wit, heart- wrenching drama, Tara's sweetness, Spike's sexiness, Buffy's angst, and also her faith in the group, Anya's selfishness, Xander's need for a happy ending, very little of Dawn and ofcourse Giles unwavering love and loyalty. Mix that in with a sexy demon, and random bits of humor (Street sweepers and songs about laundry and parking tickets) and you have The entire show wraped in one nice neat package. The only weak part I saw was that Xander didn't get any blame, for anything. But it's not like every single character didn't have something else to think about. So that's my two-cents worth. ( or maybe a whole dollars worth, sorry) Lila P.S. I thought Primevil was great, not to mention Nightmares, Passions, Becoming (ofcourse), Helpless, Dracula, and the ep where Buffy tells the Watcher's Council off. That ruled!

  • July 4, 2002, 2:13 a.m. CST

    Ummm...a re-run?

    by Mostholy

    I just love how Herc throws up talkbacks here for Buffy RERUNS, but she gives no similar love to all-new, all-great, muppet-filled original episodes of Farscape. Lame, Herc...real lame.

  • July 4, 2002, 2:45 a.m. CST

    Jesus Fuck! Shut Up about fucking Buffy! Christ!

    by squonk

  • July 4, 2002, 7:12 a.m. CST

    For the anti-BtVS folks who crave it...

    by raffish

    * OKAY, WHY THE HELL NOT: Everybody else seems to be doing the disconnected "I'm right and you're wrong" rant thing, in lieu of generating more linear prose, and I'm not immune to the temptation myself now and again. So, points of reference: my approximate season ranking goes S2, S3, S6, S5, S1, S4. Favorite eps are "OWMF" followed by "Hush," with "The Body" nowhere near the top ten. S6 was a mixed bag. While it contained plenty of all-time classic moments, it must be acknowledged that it delivered eight episodes in a row, between "Tabula Rasa" and "Normal Again," which couldn't crack the 50th percentile in the GEOS viewer ratings. (That's never happened before: the previous record was five in a row, which occurred toward the beginnings of both S1 and S3.) And things *did* hit a serious low with "Doublemeat Palace." Still, let's face it: Espenson got stuck with a lost cause here, folks. Firefly or no Firefly, it's to ME's discredit that she wasn't compensated with the chance to work her unearthly wit upon any of the final ten. * PLOT NOTES: Spuffy rocked, and while I'm not precisely a Noxon fan, the attempted rape *worked* as a motivator for a transformation in Spike that will undoubtedly produce major shock waves in S7. (But since this is Spike we're talking about, they'll probably be rather more dynamic and entertaining than a lot of the "depressing" stuff that some viewers didn't appreciate in S6.) Meanwhile, Willow's descent into addiction was frighteningly realistic. This was no last-minute decision: it had been coming to this for three seasons, and it paid off almost as well as the strongest character arcs on, might I say, Babylon 5. * KOBAYASHI WRITES: "The payoff just never came together in the right way. Xander and Anya should be married right now. Spike and Buffy should be in love and Spike should be human. Dawn should be mysterious and powerful. And Willow should be their leader -- the all-powerful witch who treads on the dark side." (Yeah, because cliches will save us all...) "No drug storyline, no sex-for-sex sake storyline, no cold feet." Nothing like real life, in other words? Fine, ask for happy endings to be more common. Escapism rocks, and this series does it well -- but can't even escapism reflect hope in the face of darkness, as opposed quick and easy solutions to difficult problems? Trust these characters, and realize that they're people in transition just like the rest of us. Were they to have their issues worked out at the age of twenty, they'd most likely be emotionally and philosophically dead by halfway through S7. And you'd be seriously bored. * FARSCAPE IS FUN: I watch it every week, usually a few days after it airs -- but it seems unlikely ever to imprint itself on our impoverished cultural landscape to the extent that BtVS has, and I think there are legitimate reasons for this. Like BtVS, it tries to combine drama and comedy with its core genre. Unlike BtVS, though, it's never really transcended the "Monster of the Week" format. It simply doesn't have as much on its mind. It's particularly telling that each season's Big Bad tends to be the dude/chick who manages to subjugate the previous season's Big Bad. Crais -> Scorpius -> Commandant Cleavage. Yawn. * FINALLY: Darkseed is an attention-starved git who could stand to listen to Herbert Spencer: "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Beyond that, neither he nor his fellow trolls who think we're tuning in for the hotties deserve much more than a, "Well, guess you'll be leaving, then."

  • July 4, 2002, 7:27 a.m. CST

    Off topic question

    by Kerr_Avon

    Does anyone know who sang the song at the end of last seasons last episode?

  • July 4, 2002, 7:34 a.m. CST

    Sorry, but...

    by JHChrist

    > Jesus Fuck! Shut Up about fucking Buffy! Christ! I happen to think that BtVS espouses fairly well the value system that I tried in vain to get across -- much better than does, say, the "religious right" that presently controls your legislative branch.

  • July 4, 2002, 9:44 a.m. CST

    Season 6 was great!

    by krisp

    I don't know what you people are thinking! I thought the Buffy-Spike sex scenes were HOT and I and several gal pals got together each week to watch every moment. Who said that chicks don't like rough, nasty, slightly s&m-y sex? Wrong. Didn't any of you guys ever read "My Secret Garden"?

  • July 4, 2002, 12:50 p.m. CST

    Rerun? Hell, I thought that was the preview.....

    by NJP2002

    Just goes to show that UPN executives shouldn't run with scissors....

  • July 4, 2002, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Song at the end of S6 finale ...

    by fluffypancakes

    It was "Prayer of St. Francis" by Sarah McLachlan.

  • July 4, 2002, 1:54 p.m. CST


    by OuiMai

    Thanks, I should have remembered that! What else was cut? Not sure. . . I kept getting a sort of negative deja vu feeling all the way through ("hey, wasn't this scene a bit longer before?"), but the "hardest thing in this world" item is one of the few I affirmatively recalled from the original.

  • July 4, 2002, 6:17 p.m. CST

    Best episode. . .

    by Jumpstart

    EVER put to celluloid? No, don't think so. And anyone who does obviously hasn't seen "The Prisoner" episode "Hammer Into Anvil."

  • July 4, 2002, 7:05 p.m. CST

    Season 4 vs. Season 6 Redux

    by DefyThis

    Of course, how representative of the overall fan reaction are these rankings going to be? Come on, "Wrecked" not in triple figures? Ok, at 99 it's close enough, but what plot point was more griped about than the after school special that was the "magic as a drug, Willow as an addict" storyline? And I find it hard to believe a popular episode like "Dead Things" didn't fare better "Seeing Red", with two of the most contreversial scenes of the season (the attempted rape and Tara's death). Fans were screaming bloody murder (no pun intended) in serveral camps. So I wouldn't put too much weight on these.

  • July 4, 2002, 8:36 p.m. CST

    Darkseed and Musicals....

    by Zap Kapow

    Surely, if JW can do a good TV musical, then he could do a great Movie Musical. Possibly? Oh, and Darkseed... funny man! Hey, email me and we'll go over some HILARIOUS Freddie Prinze Jr Jokes and mock, i dunno, airline food? Cos that aint an easy idiotic way to make jokes, no, not in your world.

  • July 4, 2002, 9:32 p.m. CST

    Insert witty subject line

    by Alanna Banana

    So why was Six the worst ever? I haven't been fully convinced yet. I mean, when I watch some of the much-exalted Season Two eps (yay FX), I laugh. At parts I'm not meant to laugh at. Buffy is so damn annoying with Angel, I'm forced to lower the volume during their more dramatic scenes so no one in my family overhears the forced cheesiness and demands to know why I'm watching such crap TV. Not to say I don't like S2; I do. My point is just that there are some painful bits scattered throughout every season, i.e. the completely contrived and ludicrous Dark-Willow-Giles-coven-borrowed-whatevers of the finale. But these parts are cancelled out by the cool shit, like OMWF. I'm Alanna Banana and I'm out like Dan from the Real World Miami.

  • July 4, 2002, 11:46 p.m. CST

    Once More With Feeling

    by pconaty

    Ok, I was impressed but it isn't the best episode ever. (Becoming Part 2 is, in my opinion.) I have never seen anything like Once More With Feeling. It was brave, bold, and original, so it's chances of winning the Emmy are Zip. Especially, since it was left off the ballot to start with. Let's face it, if the Emmy's were fair, SMG would have won best dramatic actress for almost any show from Season 2. Season 2 is my fave so far, but I am very excited about Season 7! Whether Spike is human or a vamp with a soul, this should be fascinating. Everybody's talking about Willow having to be redeemed. Warren deserved to die- he was a murderer/nut who never would have stopped stalking Buffy and the gang. OK, trying to end the world was a bit over the top, but Xander got to be the hero for a change. In the eyes of most viewers, I think Willow has already been forgiven. Herc, please tell me the Buffy Season 2 DVD flyer had a typo- Season 3 will be out Winter 02 and not Winter 03, Right?

  • Dude!? What the fuck is your problem? Do you know Darkseed? That would maybe, MAYBE make it a little tiny miniscule bit OK for you to post such a ridiculously small minded attack on someone. I know nothing about Buffy except what I saw in season 6 and I think that season one was an abonmination and an insult to television viewers around the globe. Does that make me a bad person? NO! But you responding like a 6th grader (and an imature one at that...oh, but maybe you are one) in a talkback that was suprisingly kind, intelligent and informative just fucks it up for everyone else. Plus, I think Darkseed taking the piss out of the obsessiveness of Buffy geeks (or any niche cult) is damn funny. He didn't point to someone and say you suck. He (err, or she I guess) was just pocking fun. Fuckin' relax man. We are obsessed geeks and it's OK to be that way. But your response was just way the fuck out of line. A'ight?

  • July 5, 2002, 4:07 p.m. CST

    Best Season Ever of the Best Show Ever

    by brattain

    Okay, to me ALL the seasons were great, so this one was no better or worse than 1-5. I'm finding it odd how many fans didn't like this past season. Why? Thematically, it contained one of Whedon's more brilliant concepts. Each "Big Bad" got bigger and bigger until finally, Buffy fought a GOD! So, instead of trying to top that, Whedon makes the "Big Bad" of Season 6 trying to cope with the real world of bad jobs, no money, and failed relationships. I think this may have been a more depressing season than the others, but it was hardly bad. And even at its worse, Buffy is better than almost everything else on television. Keep up the great work, Joss.

  • July 5, 2002, 4:16 p.m. CST


    by Jaka

    Why no one seems to be able to respond to you intelligently is beyond me. Since in my personal opinion the Buffy audience is NORMALLY quite intelligent and articulate. So I would like to take this opportunity to point out a couple of BLARINGLY OBVIOUS errors you made while espousing your brilliant observations. One: Buffy news is only posted in the coaxil section of this site. There is new stories posted here everyday in the movie news section. As far as wether you like the stories they post, I am ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that the AICN staff doesn't care. Two: If you love so much, stay there. Three: since you seem to HATE Buffy and it's fanbase, and AICN so much, what the hell are you doing coming to AICN, going to the Buffy stories (which aren't even posted in the movie section), posting comments about a show you don't like (so I must assume, don't watch), and then following the thread to see if people have commented back? Do you have nothing better to do with your time? Keep in mind, that as long as it doesn't degrade into a moronic name calling verbal war, that I think it's fine, and actually somewhat ammusing. But you are a walking contradiction in you posts and that doesn't make you look like the most intelligent of beings.

  • July 5, 2002, 4:42 p.m. CST

    The Poster

    by Jaka

    Yeah, after truly enjoying S6 I decided that I will need to see all the other eps so I can get caught up on character development and know who all these characters are people keep talking about that have left the show (woo! run on sentence!). But I don't know if I can bring myself to watch season one. I thought I would check it out when it first started airing because, in all honesty, a show that has the words Vampire Slayer in the title had promise to me. But DAMN! The acting, production, set design, EVERYTHING, just seemed awful to me. PLEASE EVERYONE, DON'T ATTACK ME. I REALLY enjoyed last season a lot. In fact, I have been paying attention to all the eps you guys say are great and I will check them first. If anyone wanted to recommend other eps besides the six or seven that seem to be considered classics, I would appreciate it.

  • July 5, 2002, 5:37 p.m. CST

    ..speaken of buffy....

    by Stars2shy2bstr8

    ..By far the musical was the best ep of this past otherwise dissapointing season. We lost Giles 2 england.....the buffy-spike build-up was a HUGE letdown (..i just wanna feel...)...Dawn was mostly an after thought the entire season...xander leaven anya at the alter ( now come on!!) then of course, the tragic death of our beloved Tara. way way 2 much drama. Im glad Joss and company are going 2 go back 2 basics ( more or less) this coming season. Buut back to the musical....great song writting...and who woulda thought tara b and emma c had such beautiful singen voices. this ep has award written all over it.

  • July 5, 2002, 10:46 p.m. CST

    Season 6

    by burningbabyfish

    I loved OMWF, let me go on the record for that. I didn't like Season 6 as a whole - and mainly for the reasons that some have cited for its brilliance. I agree - the only real thing Buffy could fight after fighting a god is inner demons. That's a logical outflow, and I grant Joss that. But I have always watched Buffy for its escapism and snarky commentary on life. (That's why I prefer the high school eps so far - Joss NAILED high school.) In taking on inner demons, ME went too close to real life to be really enjoyable. Post college graduation, I've felt a lot like Buffy - "going through the motions." I don't need to see her wallowing in her own demons when I've got my own to fight, especially when she didn't get over things until the fricking end of the season. (Not that she didn't have good reason to be depressed, let me also clarify that part.) And this season has seemed to lack the spark and snap in the dialogue that past seasons have had. In past seasons, even when things were down in the dumps, there was the snap that kept things a little lighter. But I, for one, am curious as all get out about S7 - if/how Willow will deal with her magic (I'm hoping she learns to use responsibly, like Giles, though I know that fails the whole "addiction" metaphor), what's up with Spike, how Dawn will play out (pick up the dangling plot lines, dearies!), etc. Good stuff. And may they bring back Dru!

  • July 6, 2002, 7:38 p.m. CST


    by MadKat

    Hi...I was just wondering if someone could help me understand how the bullit could come through the center of the window, hit Tara who was in the middle of the room when Warren fired it from 1 story below? I just can't seem to make the angles match up.

  • July 6, 2002, 10:05 p.m. CST

    THey cut half of the Musical out

    by Spikegirl90000

    Didn&#39;t any one see they cut Half of the musical.They cut:<br> The overtue<br> 1/2 of I Got A theory<br> Sweets Lair<br> They should of cut the mustart song and Dawns Lament.

  • July 7, 2002, 8:31 p.m. CST

    OMWF was brilliant...

    by BlankGeneration

    I&#39;ve only been on to Buffy for about 9 months now. Thank God FX is showing the first five seasons. Season 6 was ok as a whole, but my God OMWF was scarily brilliant. The music, the dancing, the roiling emotions left me damn near tears. I can&#39;t wait to see "Firefly" on Fox. Why the hell is everyone rooting ofr the show to fail. Joss Whedon is pushing the boundaries of storytelling in the TV format. I would think fans would be grateful for the storytelling, the love and the intelligence that is Buffy. thats my .02cents

  • July 7, 2002, 8:34 p.m. CST


    by BlankGeneration

    As for the trajectory thing, that bothered me too. Suspension of disbelief got me over it...

  • July 7, 2002, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Buffy Bad...

    by redgreen

    Sorry guys. The show jumped the shark from the first episode. I unfortunatley have had to watch the last 5 years of the episode due to wife and her Buffy parties with friends. I have bought used copies of the 1st and 2nd season of the dvds just to destroy them, lest someone else comes under their evil influence.

  • July 7, 2002, 10:52 p.m. CST

    Some of the cuts

    by Deck76

    1. Door jingle on magic shop as scene trasitions from Graveyard to magic shop (Buffy starts talking and doesn&#39;t walk into the shop, she&#39;s already at the table). 2. I&#39;ve got a theory ends after Anya&#39;s bunny rant, leaving out both the midgets and Buffy&#39;s line "Hey I&#39;ve died twice!". 3. Dawn doesn&#39;t have her line about giving birth to a pterodactyl, hence no "Oh my god, did it sing?" 4. Xander doesn&#39;t mention canceling work due to the flab thing of his guys dancing around. 5. I think Dawn had a bigger struggle before Sweet&#39;s song. 6. Intercut footage of Sweet dancing around during the gang&#39;s trek to the Bronze. 7. Xander doesn&#39;t have his line about being Sweet&#39;s queen. There may be others.

  • July 7, 2002, 11:35 p.m. CST


    by OuiMai

    Everyone&#39;s entitled to his own aesthetic judgments, and I&#39;m not trying to question yours. . . . But . . . Question 1: Have you tried asking your wife or her friends why they (apparently) like Buffy so much? Question 2: Are these friends of your wife&#39;s people you like, respect and would otherwise invite to your home? Question 3: Have your wife&#39;s Buffy parties become a sore point between you two? Question 4: Could your dislike of Buffy - to the point of wasteful spending and useless distruction of dvds - be less about Buffy and more about your wife or her pals? . . .. Mind you, I&#39;m not making any allegations or reaching any conclusions. But how many other show&#39;s dvds or tapes have you gone out of your way to buy and destroy? Seems like a hatred more deep than a simple dislike of "bad" writing or acting.

  • OMWF was one of the all-time greats. I have a bootleg CD of the soundtrack and the tunes really hold up. But as for the single best episode ever? It would have to be one of the following: "Halloween," "Innocense/Surprise," "The Becoming" (both parts), "Band Candy," "Graduation Day," "Hush," "Fool for Love," and "The Body."

  • July 8, 2002, 9:14 p.m. CST


    by Lobot

    I have never liked "musical" episodes of shows. Xena, 70&#39;s show,even back to the star wars christmas special were all crap. They really mess with suspension of disbelief, and just being an actor doesn&#39;t mean they can sing too. If I wanted a musical show I&#39;d watch coprock episodes.

  • July 10, 2002, 1:35 a.m. CST

    Herc, you&#39;re scaring me.

    by Johnny Dagger

    "It remains one of life