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STAR TREK: NEMESIS Trailer Seen!
Hey folks, Harry here... I'm one of those people that love loving Star Trek, but often times find it hard to love, due to cookie cutter assembly line blandness. However, as the word from the one person that has seen a rough version came in raving... and a blow by blow of the teaser appeared on TrekWeb.Com and then finally this look below... I'm excited. Looks like July 1st is the first chance many of us will have a chance to see it. Here ya go...
Harry,
I was one of the lucky few that got to see the first teaser trailer for "Star Trek: Nemesis" today at Trek Expo 2002 in Tulsa, OK. The rep from Paramount was really cool; he played the trailer three times just to be sure everyone got a look.
I don't really want to give a play-by-play recounting of the trailer (mainly because I know I'll remember something wrong), but I want everyone to know that this is one kick-ass trailer and "Nemesis" looks like its definitely going to be one kick-ass movie! The trailer starts off quietly and mysteriously, with snippets of dialouge and various footage. The exterior planets shots are very cool...especially one that I believe was Romulus. They look much more like "Star Wars" than "Star Trek". Before long, the trailer kicks into full gear, and an action montage begins, complete with techno music, lots of shit blowing up, a shot of the infamous "Federation Jeep," and even a shot of a rather steamy looking love scene with Tom Hardy's Shinzon! A! ll the while, the words "This December...A Generation's...Final Journey Begins" (or something like that) are splashed across the screen. The montage is capped off with a shot of Data leaping from an exposed Enterprise corrider into space and the trailer ends with a cool 3-D animation of the "Nemesis" logo and the startrek.com address.
The most promising aspects of the trailer are how un-"Star Trek" this movie looks. It looks more a sleek high-energy, science-fiction action film...which it essentially is. Stuard Baird has obvious never directed "Star Trek" before and, believe me, that's a good thing. The camera angles don't look like "Star Trek", the lighting doesn't look like "Star Trek", the costumes don't look like "Star Trek", the sets don't look like "Star Trek", even the ships (other than the Enterprise) don't look like "Star Trek"!!! There's even sex in this thing, for God's sake!!! And let me tell you, Tom Hardy is incredibly creepy as Shinzon...I can't wait to see his full performance.
Anyway, that's all I've got for you. For all of you who weren't at the convention today, the rep from Paramount said the trailer is set to debut on "Entertainment Tonight" on July 1st, and it will be in theaters with "Men in Black II" and hit the internet on July 4th weekend.
--SiskoFreak
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I can't associate the phrase "kick ass" and Rick Berman. The man has sucked the life out of what could have been one of the greatest series ever. Let this poor thing die in piece.
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Trailers for Trek, T3 and The Two Towers... will it get me in the theater for this DOG?
Don't care if I'm first or not... -
Excuse my sarcasm, but this is just not very exciting. Nemesis sounds soooooo boring, like all other things Trek. Thats what I hate about Star Trek. Its never really bad or horrible, just insanely boring. I'll take Star Wars any day. Will Nemesis prove me wrong, doubtful, but I'll give it a chance on video. I would like it to be good, but Trek has had 9 films already to prove that it isn't up to much, what makes number 10 so special.
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Insurrection was a load of old bollocks, it's sad to say that the Star Trek franchise has run out of steam and it looks like this will either be a way of going out in style, or it will be the final nail in the coffin. But hey, Star Trek fans, there'[s always Enterprise to watch... (gulp!)
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who cares
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I honestly don't think that this movie will be horrible. Despite the fact that the last one was a bit stupid I still had fun with it. We'll just have to wait and see. By the way does anybody know if the trailer for the Two Towers thats playing with MIB part deux is the same teaser trailer Harry saw or is it a full length actual trailer? I'm just curious.
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And whats with these "SECOND" guys that are like 15 minutes late. Fanny.
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these new Star Treks suck. they just suck. they're boring, they're lame. but the originals are totally fucking hilarious! Star Trek never worked as a serious show, but it does work as a camp masterpiece! they should just throw out all this crap they've been doing since the early 90s and revert back to the comedic hi-jinks, bad acting, and over the top sterostypes of the original series. this is what Star Trek is about. Drunken Angry Irishmen! the Scottish Mechanic! the Russian navigator with a heavy accent! the super intelligent and inscrutible Asian guy with spooky powers! the chisled post-war hero American capatin guy! female crew members wearing mini-skirts! etc...
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So said Dr. Brannon Frankenstein. Oh--my--God. Say it isn't so, Gene!
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Who the hell is this wanker? Let's get some real reviewers, not some trek junkie who lives in some bumf*ck backwater trailer park near Tulsa, Oklahoma.
This movie, from all the buzz looks to be pants...and will more than likely live up to the brown skidmark Rick Berman's been leaving on the franchise for years... -
It has to be good. Its the law. I am excited about ST:N. Looks like its going to be The Wrath of Kohn for the next generation crew.
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I am sick of DB. I kept seeing his crap pop up whenever something TREK pops up on AICN and TRUMPETING to everyone HOW boring Star Trek is. How and much better STAR WARS is than TREK. DO us a favor you slack jawed, drooling mouth breather. stay off the TREK boards with your drivel. Yes, Star Wars is an Icon, but given the incredibly poor showing of TPM and to a certain extent AOTC your arguement that STAR WARS is a better product than STAR TREK holds no merit.
Go post on the AOTC review. BE fucking WELL! -
WHAT i WAS GOING TO SAY
IS THAT I DONT CARE HOW CRAP IT IS OR ISTNT,I THINK THAT ENTERPRISE E LOOKS COOL.IWONDER IF SHE WILL GET THE SHIT KICKED OUT OF HER.AGAIN.INTERCEPTORS IMMEDIATE LAUNCH!
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It is only my opinion. I'm not bashing Star Trek. Did I ever say it was shit. No. TPM is better than anything I have seen of Star Trek, and I have seen all the films. Still, you are obviously insecure about Star Trek if you find my small talkbacks threatening. Say something about Trekkers, doesn't it. Still, First Contact was alright.
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Ya know I grew up with STAR TREK but the day G. Roddenberry died the franchise died with him!I just can't believe how the life of this franchise has been sucked out of it.I saw EVERY single episode of ST:TNG the very first timed it aired (except for one that was pre-empted in N.Y.[caught it the following week in a re-run]).I watched every season of ST:DS9 but if I missed an episode I did not shed any tears.I watched that piece of shit ST:VOYAGER for the first three seasons but when they introduced SEVEN of BREASTS uh,I mean NINE I did not stick around long enough to see her get DE-BORGIFIED(did I spell that right?Is it even a word??)!And the latest nail in the coffin aka ENTERPRISE?Well I tuned out after literally four episodes.I didn't think it was possible for there to be a show more nauseating than VOYAGER but they actually pulled off the impossible.I just could not find one thing to make that show worth wasting sixty mins. of my life watching it!I thought the cast of ST:VOYAGER sucked well the gang on ENTERPRISE both SUCK and BLOW!I just can't believe they had the nerve to make another ST:TNG movie after that last turd.It's time to give it up PARAMOUNT.IT'S OVER DO YOU HEAR ME IT'S OVER!!!!!
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To go with my "Dark Side" Humvee.
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... so if you've always hated Star Trek, thought the ships were dumb, the uniforms retarded, the look and feel just assinine, THEN GO SEE NEMESIS! IT'S NOTHING LIKE STAR TREK!!! ... all curent Star Trek fans can go f--- themselves, but then they knew that just by watching it lately on television. GOOD NIGHT EVERYBODY and Thank you for coming!
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I hope they put it online!! It sounds so great!
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ever since braga/berman blah blah blah blah blah... just kidding. Now that I have said it, you don't have to.
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Saying that Star Trek is incredibly boring is not considered bashing? I think so. And for the record I will forever say that TPM was one of the most ill concieved and executed movies ever created. And what can you say to possibly justify Mannikin (Jake Lloyd) Skywalker? I will NOT begin to rag on about JJB.
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You don't really mean what you say about TPM. Sure, its no where near as good as the originals, but everyone goes overboard on how bad it was. You should watch it again and then make your decision, I've seen all the Star Trek films twice. No more no less. If you consider an opinion to be bashing, then you need to go back to school. I didn't say that "STAR TREK SUCKS, AND THATS A FACT". I just said that I "think" Star Trek is boring. Its my opinion. So don't get all hot under the collar. You are just as bad as many Star Wars fans. General Custer is a massive TPM fan and lets hope you don't meet him on this talkback cos he feels strongly about TPM. Star Trek needs a boost, and this might be it, but it might not. One things for sure, I won't go flaming a film I ain't seen yet.
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Jun 24, 2002 11:27:21 AM CDT
'snippets of dialouge [sic] and various footage?' - - ma
by yankeessuck
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One should almost be afraid to post on any Trek-related Talkback. It sounds more like a high school playground than a message board. Well, I'm here to bring some balance. I love both Star Trek and Star Wars, and I can appreciate the merits of each in their own right. I think they've both had high points and low points, and I will stick with both franchises until the end. But, to get back on topic, this is the second favorable review I've heard about anything Nemesis related on AICN. Some folks seem to have a hard time accepting that Nemesis just might be worth watching. I'll go see it because I am a fan of Star Trek. But I side with the masses when I say that the TNG films have for the most part been sub-par. And I also hold Rick Berman and Brannon Braga accountable for that, and for the embaressment that was Voyager. Yeah, I'm a Star Trek fan and I'm saying that. This doesn't herald the end of Star Trek - it's still a cash cow, despite lower ratings and so long as it brings in money, it's going to be around. They've not had a new movie since 1998, which is the longest gap in between movies since the gap between the sixth and seventh films. Hopefully this was time well spent. I'm not going to call it yet, but I've used the term before, that I am cautiously optimistic. I would hope others also reserve judgment until seeing the finished product - but I live in the real world, so I'm not very optimistic about that.
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Do you guys have nothing better to do than pretend you know something about Star Trek? What the hell are you all talking about? First of all EVERY Star Trek picture has been HUGELY successful. I think that Insureection is crap. It's a glorified TV episode. But it made Paramount a lot of money because there are A LOT of ST fans that would rather watch a Star Trek Episode than any of the other CRAP that's on television or at the movies. It's called a niche market. And when this film makes $100 million dollars (which it will!) you watch how quickly everyone starts talking about Star Trek 11. Oh, and isn't Enterprise UPN's top rated show? That may not be saying much, granted, but it shows there are enough ST fans to keep a freakin' network afloat. And really, 2 networks, because TNN is beating those old TNG to death. My local UPN station just started DS9 at noon, right the fuck on! I read the books; Shattner just agreed to right 3 more. They are relaunching DS9 in the books, most likely because they will never get a movie. The point of all this is that you guys sound like a bunch of grumpy old farts!!
There is a HUGE audience for Star Trek other than convention going freaks! It generates HUGE profit for Paramount. So take you bad attitudes and uneducated (yes, uneducated...you know NOTHING about the subject you are complaining about)musings to some other talkback were they are welcomed and deserved. This is a Star Trek talkbalk. Geez. -
Sorry If I came of as being angered. I can't absorb the concept that Star Trek is boring. Although I admit that at times it has been haphazardly executed. Sorry.... I have copies of all the Star Wars. Yes, I have watched TPM more than once. Believe me I wanted desperately for it to be on par with the original trilogy. But It wasn't. I tried an experiment just before AOTC hit the theater I watched TPM and fast forwarded past all of the Anakin and JJB footage. Guess what I liked it a lot better. It was a grand vision, beautifully photographed but with wooden and unemotional characters. But It was Star Wars. And just like TREK I judge each installment on its merits. I'm just saying to you that, OK, YOU don't enjoy Star Trek, you think Star Wars is better. Fine. Your opinion. Voice it somewhere else.
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They do ok business, considering they are expensive films. $100m is not a lot of money for a blockbuster to earn. Still, take something like Fellowship of the Ring, that took over $310m domestic, so that was a big success.
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If its anywhere as great as First Contact, I'll be seeing it at least twice. Nemesis, The Two Towers, the end of 2002 seems more and more interesting so far.
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Has anyone else noticed that the rabid Star Trek fans grow up to be engineers and astrophysicists, and the rabid Star Wars fans are forced to look forward to a life in retail? Hmmmm... As I've always said, Star Wars is sci-fi for the kids on the short bus. Still, it is true that B&B have sucked the life out of this franchise, somewhere around the beginning of the 7th season of TNG. Best to let it die a merciful death. I'll be seeing Nemesis on DirecTV pay-per-view.
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For your information, bumf*cking is banned in Tulsa. You have to go to Oklahoma City for that.
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...you suck and thats sad. The ignorant pessimists whom stated that "Star Trek was dead" after the pityful showing of "Insurrection" were the ones whom also stated that "Star Wars was dead" after the blatant awfulness of "The Phantom Menace". EVERYONE knows that odd-numbered ST films are shitty, and that even-numbered ones are great. Nemesis will probably rule the earth as much as Attack of the Clones did (and whats-his-name was right, Star Trek is intelligent sci-fi for intelligent people, and Star Wars is piss poor fantasy for the general population).
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Cos you are trapped in your own sad little world. You actually think that Star Trek is the best thing in the world. Since you can't get laid, that is probably right for you.
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here''s what i think: star trek and star wars have both been sucking lately. the latest movies of both franchises have been disappointing. i hope that trend ends and the next ones are better for both. sincerely, fun guy.
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...I do not think that Star Trek is the best thing in the world. I barely watched Voyager after Seven of Nine came onboard (after a lame version of the Borg Collective apparently assimilated every single episode), and I only watched the tedious pilot of Enterprise. In my opinion, big-screen adaptations of comic books (Spider-man, X-Men) and movies filmed in a comic book style (the Matrix, Dark City) are WAY better. And I get laid whenever my girlfriend is in the mood, thank you very much.
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Jeez, you have that problem too. They always have to be in the mood. I'd rather they just said they didn't feel like making a little lurve, as they call it. Anyway, back on topic, Star Trek has sucked for a long time (in my opinion), but I'm not going to judge Nemesis until I see it, on video. But AOTC WAS brilliant. TPM may have not been what people expected, but AOTC is largely thought of as a great film by fans and non fans alike. The majority of naysayers live on these boards. And when I say Star Trek sucks, I don't really mean that, I just mean that its average, mediocre, boring and dull. Which in some ways is worse.
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...I agree that Star Trek seems to blow 95% of the time, but that other 5% is absolute great sci-fi. Stuff that even Spielberg should strive for (see The Lost World, A.I. and Minority Report? What the fuck happened to his inspiration? He pissed-off the muse of filmmaking or something?) Anyway, even though First Contact is at second position of my top ten list, I rather see Yoda kick ass in a lightsaber fight anyday. Its simply more entertaining. And, in my opinion, TPM wasn't really a movie. It was nothing more than a template for Episodes 2 and 3, comparable to ST: The
Motion Picture or ST: Generations. -
I have heard all over the place how wretched the story is. So, they officially billing this as the last TNG movie huh? That's kind of sad.
I am not so sure I am thrilled to hear that this movie looks and sounds nothing like Star Trek...however you can discern all that from a friggin' 30 second trailer is beyond me!
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That's the funniest goddamn post I've seen in weeks. Brought a tear to my eyes, thanks!
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...Smackdown is. IF YOU CAN SMELLLLAAAAOOOOWWWW...WHAT THE ROCK...IS...COOKIN'! Sorry, I had to do that. Actually, I agree with Jaka's points. Here's a funny thing: the top 3 shows on UPN are Buffy (which everyone complains isn't as good as it used to be), Enterprise (which everyone complains isn't as good as Star Trek used to be), and Smackdown (which everyone complains isn't as good as the WWF/E used to be). Anyone else see a trend there? So, maybe its not the shows that have gotten worse...maybe we're just pissier now.
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But then again, I'm more interested in seeing Bubble Boy II than Star Wars 3 (or six, or whatever the fuck it's supposed to be called.) ATOC sucked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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We are supposed to love this Star Trek movie because it's nothing like Star Trek?? Explain this to me.
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I would love to see your statistics on such a very interesting theory. Who's ass did you pull them out of?
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"The camera angles don't look like "Star Trek", the lighting doesn't look like "Star Trek", the costumes don't look like "Star Trek", the sets don't look like "Star Trek", even the ships (other than the Enterprise) don't look like "Star Trek"!!! There's even sex in this thing, for God's sake!!!" ****** Doesn't that mean it is NOT a Star Trek film? I am wary of anything that tries to stray too far from Roddenberry's vision. I have watched a hell of a lot of crap in the cineman but when I saw the Eterprise NC-1701 class E, pride of Starfleet flown by a THRUSTMASTER JOYSTICK, I almost walked out of the cinema. Has anyone forgotten how BAD Insurrection was? The boob jokes, that Starfleet bazooka phaser? The complete lack of congruence with the previous NextGen films? I don't WANT Star Trek to be another bland sci-fi clone. It doesn't DESERVE to be marginalised like that. I am no hardcore trekkie or trekker or whatever, but I am enough of a fan not to see Star Trek degenerate anymore than it already has. And this trailer description does not fill me with confidence that the next film will do that.
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Who the fuck is still watching this tired old fossilized piece of shit cranked out by PARAMOUNT?I will guarantee you this upcoming tenth piece of regurgatated crap will not make one tenth the money of either AOTC or LOTR.For all you losers out there who think SW is old hat check out AOTC's worldwide box office gross.Which is $470 mil. and climbing.Thank you thank you very much,you limp dicked trekkie wannabes!Of course the storyline in this tenth turd features clones.Coincidence ain't it?Peace out!:-]
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(cross-posted from the last asinine Trek thread): Contrary to the attempts of some on here who are (incompetently) attempting to paint me as some sort of a bin Pol Pot Hitler because I insist on blowing a large hole straight through their sacred cow, I do make an effort to respect the opinions of others. I simply prefer the company of people whose opinions have some grasp on actual reality, and unlike IBLIS Technomage I just can't even imagine a reality in which that godawful show could ever be good. Yes, I did occasionally give in to the urges of others to "give DS9 a chance", even some of the supposedly "good" bible verses that they're always on about, and every single time I did I came away feeling like a character from Pink Flamingos. (A movie which, incidentally, also has way better characters, writing and acting than DS9 ever did.) I respect an honest difference of opinion fine, I'm just sick of the plague of Deep Space Scientologists (Bajorah's Witnesses, or whatever you want to call 'em) that materialize out of the woodwork every single damn time Star Trek gets mentioned. To blatantly steal a phrase famous to all who have ever watched Star Trek, get a life you people.....
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Even if you aren't particularly a fan, you have to acknowledge it was way better than voyager.
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Jun 24, 2002 6:17:47 PM CDT
Guys, take a good long look at that first sentence from Harry...
by ds9_sucks
If anything describes DS9 better than "cookie cutter assembly line blandness", I don't think I've ever seen it even in my various screeds. And the reason there won't ever be a DS9 "movie" is because the very idea is the ultimate oxymoron (emphasis on "moron"). Sisko out.
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No smart ass remarks can suffice for what will certainly be a horrible movie. Please Mr. Berman, do not torture us long time (35 years) Star Trek fans with another poor excuse of a Star Trek movie. Let it die. End your involvement with Star Trek once and for all. Kill off all of the TNG characters and let us forget we ever knew you. I had high hopes for ENTERPRISE and was let down (except for Joleen Blalok 'sorry if I butcherd her name') there as well. Maybe a Deep Space Nine revival???? Na! He would screw that one up too.
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people are always saying star wars kicks Star trek's ass, blah blah blah. The thing is they are TWO DIFFERENT GENRES Star Wars has become a kid's cartoon with good CGI and the occasional decapitation. Star Trek is a projection for the future of the planet earth if there was a way to travel faster than the speed of light. It used to be that, when you wanted thought provoking entertainment, there was Trek, and when you wanted slicing, dicing, explosions and heroic music, and shots crammed with as many different alien species as possible, you went to Star Wars. Now there is some kind of direct competition, as if it is even fair to compare them. Star Trek= intelligent science fiction. Star Wars=a sword and sorcery epic with space ships. Now there has been some cross pollination, with star trek officers carrying bazooka weapons and saying stupid lines like "lock and load pilgrims" and "assimilate this" and Star Wars venturing into real social-political commentary with the whole cloning thing. when one attempts to borrow from the other, they usually end up looking foolish. But it is stupid for brainless people that like a good hack'n'slash above intelligence in a movie to say Star Wars is sooo much better.
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We need more good Sci Fi movies. Minority Report sure doesn't cut it.
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Too bad Jeri Ryan didn't get a cameo. There's nothing like a hot chick to reinvigorate a franchise.
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You respect the opinions of others, but anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Does that about sum it up? Do I really need to explain the inherent problem with your position? And incidentally, anyone who can claim with a straight face that Voyager was better than DS9 has some issues. A hot chick in a vinyl catsuit is not quality television. I can get my porn fix elsewhere. Now, I'm a little skeptical of this Nemesis business, but I've given every other Trek film the benefit of the doubt, and I'll do it again. I'm pretty sure the series has its worst chapters behind it, anyway. If it gets worse than Star Trek 5, there will be deaths involved.
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Jun 24, 2002 10:37:00 PM CDT
Yeah, okay. Next best thing about Trek: Kira's tight little
by christopher3
Unfortunately, they only put her in the vinyl catsuit for those "alternate universe" eps.
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I'm deeply saddened by the news of this "Generations Last Journey", though great things must come to an end. Much like The Undiscovered Country. I was six when that came out and I love the story. I hope that this ending has the same effect on me as Trek VI did.
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This is all i needed to hear. PS Enterprise sucks.
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Maybe I am the only one with this point of view in this talkback because no one else feels the need to (or is just tired of) defending Star Trek. Maybe the real fans of Star Trek are tired of being lumped in with all the geeks that do nothing but TALK SHIT about something they supposedly represent, or at least relate to. Or maybe it's that all the geeks are tired of people thinking they represent Star Trek. Either way, no one is getting it (and yes I realise this is a pretty small talkback with a small amount of comments from a small group of people...and that it will be gone in a couple days never to be seen again...). First, if all of you people do not like Star Trek and think it's so boring, why did you even read this story at all, let alone take the time to write such "pithy", "educated" comments? Second, (and to refute what some one else said), yes, Star Trek makes HUGE PROFITS for Paramount. HUGE!! They would not keep developing movies, TV shows, book, comics, and merchandise if it were not so. You say Star Trek movies are expensive. No they are not. They are VERY economical by modern big budget standards. And if they make $100 million dollars in the US, they are doing fantastic. It amazes me that people have become disillusioned by $100 million movie grosses. Just 5 years ago, that was a ridiculous amount of money for a movie to make. But now, with producers throwing $150-200 million at big budget pictures, it seems like nothing. It bullshit! There are MANY filmmakers that are still making pictures for $10 million, which is STILL a HUGE budget for an indie. So a Star Trek film that costs $40-60 million to make and brings returns in the US ALONE of $70-100 million is a GIGANTIC profit. It will make even more overseas. Third, Star Trek IS BORING SOMETIME! But it's what MANY of the FANS love about Trek. The characters grow and live. From the TV shows, to the movies, to the books, you can watch a character (yes character - they are not real people!...more on that in a moment) grow, literally. Sometimes they even die...and come back to life. Also, many fans love the concept of Gene Roddenberry's future. No (or less anyway) crime. A clean, pollution free earth (after we blow ourselves up of course). A democratic (even if sometimes corrupt) inter stellar goverment. It's a future that many people hope will come to be a reality. Which brings me to my last point. I think that the media has ruined the image of Star Trek fans. I'm not a Trekkie, or a Trekker...I'm a Star Trek fan. I'm also a Huge Sandman fan and a Huge Dragonlance fan, but there are not any cute fuckin' names that encompass those fansbases, so I will not be LUMPED with all Star Trek fans either. I am a HARD CORE fan. I have read over 200 books covering all the series. DS9 is my favorite series so far. I just love Trek. And it's cool to love Trek because Paramount keeps pumping out the product to keep their pockets full. But damn it, we are not all freaks! I have a Mon-Thur 10 hour a day office job that has the titles Manager and Bookkeeper attached to it. I own my 5 year old car. I dress normally for a 30 year old white male. I do not wear a costume ever! I do not speak a made up alien language (just like I love LOTR and the Elvish that J.R.R created...but why do I need to learn it?). If I where to ever go to a convention, it would be to hear these actors speak. I don't want an autograph even. So what the fuck is my point!? My point is that there seems to be a lot of public Star Trek hating going on, while the regular people that love it just sit back and watch. I won't. Even if this talkback is all I can use to express a different view, I will do it. There is a huge Star Trek audience, like myself, that just wants to see the TV show, watch the movie, read the book. It's an escape. It's entertainment. You guys get that, it's ENTERTAINING. If you do not find it entertaining, take you wining, bitching, complaining asses somewhere else. There must be an I hate Star Trek site somewhere. Because I bet you there are a lot of fine folks that have something intelligent to say about Star Trek that are afraid to get smacked around by the punks in the talkbacks. I am not.
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If I go by your very astute fact finding: Titanic is a better film than all of the Star Wars films...right? SWEP4 and ET are both better than SWEP1...right? (I whole heartedly agree with that by the way!)Spider-man, Jurrasic Park, Forrest Gump, Harry Potter, The Lion King and LOTR:FOTR are all better than SWEP6, right? Idependence Day and The Sixth Sense better than Empire?!?! BAH! And certainly, Home Alone (?!?!) is better than Attack Of The Clones....riiight? Because by your very example, all those movies made more money than the SW movie I related them too. Here is my main problem with ALL of the arguments you guys are using...no one cares. I don't CARE what is BETTER...or even what you LIKE better. It's just your opinion. It's just my opinion. But please, try and have something a little more substantial than box office gross to back up your thoughts. Are you dissing the fact that there are 300 Star Trek books? That's intelligent. Maybe you should try reading a few. Are you dissing the fact that there has been 5 ST TV series? Are you jealous? Pissed off you had to wait 20 years for that BARELY enjoyable peice of celluloid known as EP1? I'm not, because for the past 20 years I have been enjoying Star Trek films that DID NOT trample on the standards and beliefs of the universe they built. There is no better damn it! Just different. Star Wars IS a cultural phonomenon. It DID change filmmaking in more ways than most people can possibly imagine. BUT! And that's a huge round ass I'm talking about!! Star Trek has BUILT it's audience since the 60's. When you insult Star Trek you are insulting literally GENERATIONS of people who have enjoyed, created, produced, written, starred in, watched and otherwise had anything to do with televisions longest running franchise. WStar Wars films are an EVENT (or used to be). Star Trek...exists. After a hard days work I can pick up a new Star Trek book and enjoy some time with these characters that I personally have been visiting since season 1 of TNG. And it's a NEW adventure everytime. Unlike watching one of the 4 SW movies yet again (which I love to do also). So come on already, you think Star Trek is a SciFi side note?!?! There would not be ANY SciFi TV series on right now if it where not for TNG. Or certainly not as many. So back to my question all along, why do you guys come to this site, to talkbacks that you either a) don't know anything about, or b)simply want to trash? Could you not find something more intelligent and educational to do with your time? Like post an objective opinion based on FACT. "I hate Star Trek" and "Star Wars is better", is really not cutting it anymore. Who cares. Let's acutally TALK (it's called a TALKBACK) about something...anything. The insults are just old.
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You sound like you're pretty intimate with Mr. Berman, knowing such personal things about him as where and errr...what(s) dick he is sucking. -------------------
Now you can take that however you like, but just in case your uber-intellectual mind can't reach quite that far, YES, I am insinuating that a) you must live in, or very near to hell because b) a donkey can only travel so far in a day. Hahaaa!! -
Hey. Thanks for responding without telling me how stupid I am. You make several good points and I will respond to each....but first, I noticed that I have not made it clear that I also LOVE Star Wars. I enjoy ST more, but that's just me. Soooo.......I agree that just a few millions seperate many of the movies on the all time gross list, but does it matter. If gross is something that you look at when judging a movies worth, then any way you look at it Independence Day and The Sixth Sense still made more money than The Empire Strikes Back...which do you think is a better movie? And if you are to go that route, you will have to pass over literally THOUSANDS of films that, in reality, are better than ANY Star Wars or Star Trek movies. I don't care about a movies gross, and want it to be clear that there are about 50 other things that matter to me in regards to movie quality. In my opinion, EP1 and 2 do not meet most of them. ------- Star Trek IS a worldwide phenomenon. But maybe the audience IS smaller than people think. Great. As long as they keep making books, movies and TV shows, why should I care one bit about how big the audience is. I still support the product that I enjoy. And yes, I also think that the movies would make a boat load more money if more fans went. But fanbases rise and fall. Look at the difference in gross from EP1 to Ep2, can you explain that? Is Episode 1 simpley better? I don't think so. This is the point that just kills me, what world do YOU live in where $11 million dollars is not a ridiculous amount of money. Hollywood (or the movie industry)has always been ridiculous...it is not reality. Windtalkers cost some ridiculous amount...like $150 million to make. It's going to bring in MAYBE $75 million domestically (MAYBE!)...so how is $11 million profit bad....ever? OK, wait! In regards to Star Wars, you say "Those are FILMS..." Uhhhh....so what am I watching when I go to a theater to see ST? Again, I think you are letting your overall view of Star Wars cloud things a bit. And as far as SW being an EXPERIENCE, come on! It's an EXPERIENCE for George Lucas to dumb down the first 2 1/2 great films (EWOKS MUST DIE!) and release a billion more toys. I admit I enjoy the excitement of a SW film. But after EP3, when will there be another one? Never is my guess. Will there be more ST? Yes, there will. Be it on TV, at a theater, or in a book, I can continue to learn more about the characters I love, without having major events and storylines change (midchlorians...bah!). Hahhahaahahaa! Have you ever watched Star Trek? You sound SO totally uneducated and uninformed. All the things you say about Star Trek characters, planets, ships, etc., are just plane wrong. I will not even defend them because anyone that knows ANYTHING about Star Trek is laughing there ass off. No, no, I won't denie it! ST did not shit on it's own univers and laugh in the faces of it's supporters by changing everything that made it great for 30 years. I totally agree.
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...does it always deteriorate into another adolescant franchise war? How many people does anyone here know that actually base what movies they see on how much money they make? I couldn't give a flying fuck if Nemesis makes Paramount $10. If it's a good movie, I will enjoy. It doesn't have to be the end-all be-all of creation.
Trek and Wars are two totally different franchises that are trying to accomplish two totally different things. There is no comparison. A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...and Earth's 23rd and 24th centuries. Lots to compare there. Trek is about exploration, not just exploring space, but exploring the human condition - hence why every character, alien or otherwise, has a human touch. Wars is a fantasy-action epic with shallower characters and a much bigger plot and more intricate plot that drives the constant action. Trek is ongoing. Wars is a self-contained story, a beginning, middle, and end. And they both achieve, and surpass, their respective goals as franchises. Wars is a cash cow on the big screen, with tons extra made in merchandising, books, clothes, etc. Trek is cash cow in a different way, with merchandising, television, film, The Experience in Vegas, books, toys, blah, blah. The only people that give a shit how much money these films make are the studios dropping cash into them in the first place. It's not an accurate control to determine which franchise is "better". There is no "better". It's merely what you prefer. I love them both. I got more excited about AOTC than I did over seeing Insurrection. AOTC was a much, much more enjoyable film than Insurrection. But my anticipation for Nemesis is higher still. So WTF?? It's a waste of time comparing them, because you cannot reach an absolute. You people who love Wars and hate Trek can rant all you want, it will not change the mind of anyone who loves Star Trek. And Star Trek fans, you can talk all the smack about Star Wars that you want, it won't change its popularity in the eyes of its fans, including mine. Quit wasting Harry's fucking server space with these retarded comparisons. Of course, this is real world, and you dunderheads will no doubt ignore all this and keep posting how much better Trek is than Star Wars, and how Star Wars kicks Trek's ass. I admit, though - this is a damn funny Talkback. -
I agree with most of what you said. Except that intelligent, informative debate rules. It's what something called a "talkback" should be used for. I, personally, try and take in the intelligent and insightful things that I read in these talkbacks. All knowledge is power. And knowing what, or how, a certain demographic feels about something, is knowledge. I DO want to know what other people think, and why they think it. I feel very passionately about Star Trek and I want to defend it. So as long as it's not a bunch of name calling and insults, I'll argue this point 'til the cows come home...which is about 3 hours here on the west coast. I do, again, completely agree with your assesment that neither is better, just different. I said it in an earlier post.
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If you enjoy a rousing debate, you'll find no one more willing than me to engage you in - except that we both agree on this topic so I guess that's moot. Unfortunately, intelligent, informed debates are hard to find on Talkbacks, in particular ones full of fanboys like the Star Trek and Star Wars ones. I was not speaking out against you - on the contrary, I find your posts insightful, a rare pleasure in our pal Harry's community. Unless you count the enlightened fan who was kind enough to inform us that clones and prequels did not exist before George Lucas created them. *laff* Yeah. I'll be interested in hearing your take on Nemesis when it makes it to the big screen. An interesting fact I noticed is that in the trailer, it touts this as one generation's final journey. Yet everyone at Paramount has, to this point, said no, no, they'll make more with us. I wonder if indeed this will be the final voyage of TNG. I would think they have at least one more movie in them before they transition to whatever the next film crew would be (I'd wager on Enterprise; a hybrid movie doesn't seem likely). I'm sure Nemesis will make more than enough cash to justify a sequel (if ST5 made enough, God knows, Nemesis sure can). Guess we'll see. May the Force live long and prosper...
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Okay. Rick Berman has made some mistakes. The wallpaper music that has plagued Star Trek since Roddenberry's death is something that drives me crazy. Often we are plgued by run of the mill stories as well. But under Berman we still got Star Trek First Contact. I noticed people leap to crap on Insurrection but forget that First Contact is actaully a great film with all the staples of a great movie. I have high hopes for Nemesis. Tom Hardy is a great actor and with him facing off against one of the finest actors working at the moment in the guise of Patrick Stewart it sounds like it will be electric. Roll on December. Oh and to all the people whinging that Star Wars is better because of Box office: look at what is on the top of your beloved list. Yes, Titanic. Does this mean Titanic is the best film of all time? A movie that succeeded more due to the teenage girls of the world as opposed to fan boys? Think about it.
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Hey king...HAHAHAAHAAHAAA!! That's all.---------------------
Greywinds, on the off chance that you will actually read this: Yeah, I know how the talkbacks go. Unfortunately it's spreading all over the internet, as far as I can see. Ananimity gives people a sense of security. For whatever reason they think it's "cool" or "entertaining", and probably more than I want to even consider think it's "intelligent". I don't consider myself a genious or above anyone that posts here. But when I see a news story about something I love (Star Trek...or whatever), I want to be able to comment on it and discuss it. Preferrably with people that actually have something to say, not just insult. But enough of my crap. I'll just do what I usaully do which is read and shake my head in disbelief. Now as far as Nemesis goes, I think it's going to be great. But obviously, I'm biased. So beyond the "it's an even number" crap, everything I've read has lead me to believe that there was A LOT of talk of this being the last Next Gen movie. I think they (Paramount, the writer(s), cast, director) put extra energy and effort into this film knowing that it could be the last, and have come up with another great Star Trek film (I hope). Also, I notice no one has been talking about the major character that is supposed to die lately. I have not read the script, I don't want to know that much. But if it's Data (Brent Spiner), and reports that I've read about everyone ELSE wanting to do another are true, I think there will be another. I will definitely post if there is an opportunity after I have seen the film. -
Your insightful posts have made me see the error of my ways. I will heretofore never watch Star Trek again. After all, how can someone who put such thought behind their posts possibly be wrong? (If you believe that, I've got the real Capt. Kirk's chair in my basement, and I'm only asking $400,000 - a steal!) Given the choice between being (or debating with) an unarmed nerd or a rampaging adolescant who hasn't formed a complete sentance in two posts...hmmm, let me think about that...
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I don't put my opinion into play very often so please excuse me if I ramble on from time to time and beat a few of the already expressed opinions like a dead horse. I do have a couple of thoughts after reading some of these talkbacks. I really enjoyed reading talkbacks from Greywind and Jaka. Thank you both. First of all ST and SW are two completely different Sci-Fi icons. I feel that comparing these two francises is very difficult, and borderline impossible considering that their creators had two completely different base storylines. Lucas created a fictional universe with almost no parallels to real life as we know is please don't take offense to that I can't explain it any better at this time. On the other hand Roddenbery created a fictional universe interlacing our own past with a realistic possibility of our own future. His vision showed humanity conquering all of the racial, economic, medical issues that plague today's society. I enjoy both SW and ST, but like Jaka I have a deep admoration for ST,I've been watching it since I was a kid. I hope that his vision (Roddenbery) is at least a glimpse of what our future has to hold. I would love to live in there (ST) universe. Thats all I have to say about that. Second, "Nemsis". I for one hope this not the last voyage for TNG. Their my favorite of all the serieses. If TNG bombed when it hit the air in 87 we wouldn't be writing these talkbacks, but they didn't. If this movie does as well as I hope it does I feel confident Paramont will goto the well again for Trek 11 W/ TNG cast possibly a crossver maybe. If it doesn't do not expect to see a trek film for a while. I'm pretty sure DS9 can't carry a movie. Voyager maybe with crossover characters from TNG. If not Enterprise will be the most likly canidate for another film. From what I have read Enterprise did rather well for it's first season. I did not get to see much of it due to my schedule. If "Nemsis" does well Paramont should stick with what works. Third, remember ST does carry a lot of financial pluses. I would be willing to bet that between the movies, toys, books, sindication deals and whatever else I miss. Star Trek is close to a half billion dollar a year indusrty why not capitalize on it as mush as possible. Fourth, B&B must go it is time for a breath of fresh air for trek. Jaka & greywind fell free to respond, I would like to hear your thoughts. I'm going to go watch ET to see the "Nemsis" Trailer now.
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Okay, I'm a pretty big Star Trek: TNG fan (hell, I even liked Insurrection), but the trailer for Nemesis (at least the parts I've seen so far that were on ET tonight) totally blew!
Whoever said this "doesn't look like Star Trek" is wrong, though...this looks like it has the same cheesy made-for-TV look that the last three films did. It also looks like it will be the worse of the lot. It's bad enough that the film has that "Fake CGI" look to it...this isn't even top quality CGI.
Did anyone else feel like breaking out into laughter when they saw the bald-headed bad guy?
No wonder Paramount is advertising this as the final journey...it looks like a big fat Christmas turkey!
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