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BEHOLD... THE RED DRAGON!!
Hey, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab.
Nice work, ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY. Once again, you’ve scored with a selection of stills that no one else has yet. It was CHAMBER OF SECRETS last week, and now it’s Brett Ratner’s upcoming Hannibal Lecter flick RED DRAGON.
CHECK OUT THE PHOTO GALLERY HERE!!
Is it me, or does Hopkins look a little like Jack Lalane in some of those shots? The side view with the tightly cinched belt restraints... not a good look for Sir Anthony.
Gotta love the back tattoo on Fiennes, though, and the supporting cast looks great. I thought Tally’s script was very good up until the final confrontation scene, where it got a little silly for my tastes. I hope that it works onscreen, and that Ratner’s done something that makes it worth reshooting MANHUNTER, a film that was already pretty damn good on its own.
"Moriarty" out.
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Just a bunch of boring shots really. They've done a pretty poor job of making Hopkins look younger. The tattoo does look cool though.
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Jun 17, 2002 9:58:50 AM CDT
live from florence, doc_loggins thinks this looks damn good.
by a goonie
holy shit! i didn't know the cast was THAT good! Anthony Hopkins, Emily Watson, Ralph Fiennes, Ed Norton, Mary Louise Parker, Harvey Keitel, and Phillip Seymour Hoffman?!? that's fucking insane! and those stills look down-right fucking awesome.
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I guess I'm just a fool but I thought that Cox played Lec(K)tor much better than Hopkins. I'll pay to see this for Edward Norton's fine acting.
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....was a classic, although it remains, and will always remain, firmly entrenched in the ten-year puke that was the 80's. The music is absolutely god-awful. Petersen is excellent though, as is Tim Noonan, and Brian Cox (although anyone who says he's more effective than Hopkins as Lecter is trying to be eclectic and controversial for the sake of it. He's simply not.) I'm tentatively hopeful that this will be at least interesting. Here's hoping they move back toward the Lecter of Silence, back toward a psychopath who can TALK his victims into swallowing their own tongue - and far away, FAR FAR AWAY from the mugging, chubby, bad-one-liner spewing effete pseudo-superhero Scott inflicted on us. Hannibal was probably the single worst film I have seen so far this decade, and one of the biggest disappointments of my film-going life, period. Nasty, lazy, over-produced, under-scripted SHITE.
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The guy has so far made his directing career by allowing the cast to make things up as they go along. How is Brett Ratner going to handle a cast who can actually speak English and follow directions??
I just can't wait to see the giant explosions and chase scenes through crowded malls or China Town. -
Jun 17, 2002 10:20:43 AM CDT
A great castn is no sure-fire indicator of a good film
by osmosis jones
Plus, they're remaking MANHUNTER for Christ's sake! I could only roll my eyes when Ratner crowed in EW that he was going to "Go to the true essence of the Thomas Harris novel." (or something to that effect) Admittedly, I have not read the novel, but the only reason this movie exists is to continue the Hopkins/Lecter "franchise". At least Danny Elfman's score should be interesting.
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Each to his own buddy, each to his own. I'm with Brian Cox as the better Lekter not because I'm trying to be 'eclectic' but because in my opinion he's the more realistic psychopath. Hopkins was far too pantomime-'esque' in my opinion, whereas Cox, when he calmly asks for Petersen's telephone number whilst freezing him with his gaze, is just chilling.
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I'm glad we get to see a little something, even if it's only a few stills. They're nice at least. Love the first and third ones. Ralph is going to be crazy. I love it!
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It was soooooooo boring and crap. I'm not a Michael Mann fan at all, but do concede that Heat was excellent. I am looking forward to Red Dragon though. I like Brett Ratner, and here is his chance to prove himself as a really reliable director.
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Jun 17, 2002 10:28:38 AM CDT
Great actors all, and Mary Louise Parker is very, very fine,
by rain_dog
But I can't help but think that Ratner's going to fuck this up, and that no amount of great actors will change that. Look at 8MM; great cast, Andy Kevin Walker script, piece of shit movie. Why? Do I really need to answer that? Besides, despite the music and the intrinsically 80s look, Manhunter is pretty good. And Tom Noonan and Joan Allen were much better cast than Ralph Fiennes and Emily Watson. Finally, I sincerely hope they haven't done the CGI de-aging on Hopkins yet, cause if they have the shouldn't have bothered; it hasn't worked.
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There really was no comparison. Is it just me or is this talkback screwy already? I'll probably be banned for pointing this out.
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Jun 17, 2002 10:40:16 AM CDT
Nothing beats an ending with a shotgun and "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida"
by iamlegolas
Even if it deviated from the source material, that scene kicks ass. Oh and no one will ever beat Tom Noonan as Francis Dolarhyde. Sorry Fiennes, but you got your work cut out for you. Why did they feel the need to remake MANHUN...er... reinterpret the novel RED DRAGON again? Something to do with cashing in on the Lecter/Hopkins thing again by making a quickie movie instead of another sequel because that would take much too long? Thought so.
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Ratner's Red Dragon will be a more faithful adaptation of the book than Mann's film, which now looks dated with all kinds of 1980s design flourishes. This new film will have a hipper, more current look. Now Talkbackers, don't slam ME for saying the above. I'm only quoting what Ratner said to Jeff Wells over at Reel.com. Personally, I'm horrified at the thought of the director of Rush Hour taking on a book and film of such awesome quality. I bet you 10 bucks he screws it up....
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Michael Mann deserves more credit than this. "Manhunter" was/is/will always be a wicked fucking jaunt through pre-"Silence" territory. Fuck Dino and everybody who LOOKS like him!
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He seemed very gutteral, more like a soccer thug than a high-society psychopath. I'm a fan of Brian Cox, but I can't help but think that the portrayal was filled with wrong choices.
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Jun 17, 2002 10:55:43 AM CDT
With this cast, all Ratner has to do is point and shoot.
by christopher3
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This looks like it could actually be a fucking masterpiece... I think I'm getting a chubby...
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Here's a quote from the EW site:
Ratner says big names like Nicolas Cage and Sean Penn were interested in playing the tattooed Dolarhyde: ''I wasn't going to hire a known. I [thought] it'd be scarier if you've never seen this guy's face.''
Hmmmmmm Sean Penn, the man who avoids the star title as if his life depended on it (now now, 'Sam' was a brain spasm on his part)and Nicholas Cage 'the dreck meister'. I mean no offense to Cage, that was harsh of me because I loved him in 'Leaving Las Vegas', but maybe I'm just pissed that the guy who assembled the cast views Ralph Fiennes as a f**king no-name. One of the best actors working today and Ratner calls him an unknown- well you really keep up with the quality films of today don't you ratshit. I can't wait to see this piece of art you have excreted. -
as Lecter, I think most of us would agree that this movie has got to be better than "Hannibal". What a disappointment that was. Major blown opportunity.
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It's obvious you guys haven't read the novel. What bothers me about 'Manhunter' is that Mann and his guys had this simply awesome ending in the book to draw inspiration from and simply just let it go to waste by going the traditional, Hollywood happy ending. In the book, the ending is truly shocking, I'm talking about 'Se7en' levels here. When I read it, it disturbed me the way no novel has ever done before or since. The only thing that has me excited about the new movie (other than the cast) is how the guys will approach the source material and wether they'll stick with that ending. If they do, watch out guys. You'll be in for the shock of your lives.
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Wasn't that Fiennes in the first picture? Isn't his character supposed to be hideously deformed? Shouldn't Hopkins look about twenty years younger than he is today for this film to work? Sorry, dyeing his hair black isn't going to cut it. And what the hell's up with Ed Norton's hair? It looks like he swiped Freddie Prinze Jr.'s "Scooby Doo" wig. Anyway, all complaints aside, if this film is only half as good as "Silence of the Lambs" it'll still be twice as good as "Hannibal". sk
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Two of my favorite sequences in the book, *SPOILER* the twist ending, and Dollarhyde's trip to have "lunch" at the museum are not in the movie, which having read the book first, was a real dissapointment. But Mann is still the MAN after that movie. Let's hope Ratner's flippant attitude about the Rush Hour films (listen to his commentary, they really just threw those movies together, and it shows, I think) doesn't carry over to Red Dragon.
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this movie is one that about a thousand people recommended to me both in person and over the net, and i was very interested in seeing it. having been told that it was better than silence of the lambs, by more than one person. i finally broke down and rented it one night, and i have to say that it was the most boring slowly paced film i have ever had the displeasure of sitting through. the sets were terrible, and the actors were worse. and another thing, what the hell was up with that guy's facial hair, i mean i know it was the '80's and all, but that was the weirdest facial growth i have ever seen, and it makes the dude in flock of seagulls look normal.
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'Red Dragon'? Sounds more like a cross between martial arts movie and a D&D fantasy flick.
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I've been skeptical of Ratner from day one. Ed Norton is one of the best working actors today, but "True to the essence of the novel"?!! Their casting is already of the mark from the beginning and it can only go downhill from there. The part that pisses me off the most is bashing the other cast. Dino's gonna critique William Petersen? Like it or not, the guy has the #1 show on tv. Ralph Finnes is going to do better than Tom Noonan?!! I'll go see it just to see Hopkins & Phillp Seymor Hoffman, but this hipocracy is asinine. This movie is all about cashing in on Hopkins as Lecter, They could at least be upfront enough to not trash a good movie.
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I saw this movie. It was called Manhunter. Really, this movie will be another sub-par mediocrity from Ratner. And it will do HUGE business. Silence was not (to me) anything even resembling a masterpiece. IMO it was a truely dull uninteresting movie with a cardboard villian everyone glommed onto. Really, you've seen Dalmer, Bundy, even Gacy. They aren't that stupid and Lex Luthoresque. She ran with the lamb?? HAHAHAHAHA! Hilarious. Look everybody wanted mor Lecter and that's what they gave you in Hannibal. This one will be more of the same. But really folks, I got the inside dope on Rat. he really throws those things together but they make 100 mil so it works. He is really just a Hollywood player. And guess what...those actors are rebelling against him. Ed Norton, who has so far worked with real directors is so pissed off, he is fucking up shots. Ed, my brother worked with Rat, he tried to tell you when you met him but you blew him off. Oh well...sorry guys. You are just gonna get Manhunter (whihc I liked) only with more Hopkins. Sad Sad Sad.
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Jun 17, 2002 1:07:51 PM CDT
Edward Norton, Ralph Fiennes, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, and Harve
by sod off baldric
Sorry for the freak-out in the subject line, but wow. What a cast! Goddammit...now I might actually have to see this film. Definitely going to keep an open mind about this one.
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What are you mental patients on?
The Cast is amazing, not only is Fiennes one of the best actors ever but Ed Norton and PSH are both geniuses. Also Hopkins as Lecter is always worth watching even in the pop-corn farce Hannibal (should have kept the original ending from the book)
Brain Cox's was good as Lecter but he was not the Lecter from the Books.
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I completely agree with DannyOcean. I had to read Ratner's quote 3 TIMES to get who he was referring to when he said he cast an unknown in the part of the serial killer. Anyone who would say IN PRINT that Ralph Fiennes is an unknown should not only be uneligable to direct Ralph Fiennes but should be banned from all movie sets, including pornos, FOREVER. Maybe he should become a crossing guard to protect all the little kids out there from his girlfriend.
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Jun 17, 2002 2:20:24 PM CDT
Ratner bashes 'Manhunter,' then steals the best shots...
by det. john kimble
I've now seen two examples of this:
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The shot of Fiennes and Watson and the tiger is spot on to the shot of Noonan, Joan Allen and the tiger from Mann's film. I wouldn't be surprised to hear 'This Big Hush' playing as the music in Ratner's version.
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And the shot of Lounds in the wheelchair which was posted here weeks ago looks like it's going to be a carbon copy as well.
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Now I know, having read the book, that these are key scenes , but I hope that Ratner has a couple of original ideas in here.
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Also, Brian Cox as Lecter gave me nightmares after I'd seen Manhunter. Hopkins in SOTL made me want to imitate him. I'd say BC wins in the creepy dept.
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Lastly - If Ratner's 'hip' version isn't as dated in ten years as he believes 'Manunter' to be, I'll eat his liver with a nice chianti and some fava beans. (slurping sound) -
I think SOTL is the worst of the series.
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In the commentary for his dumbass short film "Whatever Happened to Mason Reese?" on the RUSH HOUR disc, Ratner admits that when he got a phone call from Amblin's Kathleen Kennedy he didn't know who she was. Now this is a guy who claims to be a Spielberg junkie--yet he doesn't recognize a name that's on every one of his pictures. So this Ralph Fiennes thing doesn't surprise me; Ratner is worse than a hack: he's a goddamn phony.
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There are many reasons to remake a movie. One could have a new take on a story; or the story is so timeless that it can withstand another treatment; or the first telling had a fundamental flaw of some sort.
I think it's irrelevant to compare Cox to Hopkins (or Hopkins to Cox, for that matter). And Michael Mann's career has been so irratic that when he does make a good film, such as "Thief," it seems like a comlete fluke. In fact, most of his stuff does call for a remake (sorry, folks, I think Ali deserved better).
"Manhunter" is one of the best crime dramas ever shot. The fact it was directed by Mann means that is probably a fluke. Still, it doesn't need a remake. To redo it because it's dated is like saying "Psycho" should be remade because the original screams early '60s and is in black and white (Oops, they did that, didn't they? My bad.) To redo "Manhunter" just to milk a few more bucks out of the Hannibal cash cow is also no reason for a remake. If it ain't broke... -
nick cage qualifies for a "great cast"? methinks not. and Joel Schumacher directed it, for christsakes... did you expect it to be good?
anyway, i thought manhunter was kinda boring as well (not to mention unfaithful to Red Dragon: The Novel)... i look forward to the new version... can't be worse than hannibal... -
Jun 17, 2002 3:40:24 PM CDT
Manhunter's music, sets, and style were and remain AWESOME!!
by charles grady
Maybe it's because I'm pushing 30 and grew up in the 80s, and most of the AICN TalkBack regulars are 15 years old, but to me the look and sound of Manhunter remain seriously cool! Too "Miami Vice"??? Since when is that a bad thing??? The score to Manhunter is timeless genius from Brian Eno to Eric and the Reds, and to hell with anyone who says it doesn't hold up. Those moody, ambient synth sounds - as well as those of Tangerine Dream and Giorgio Miroder - sound awesome, sinister, cool, and they embody everything that was great about 80s neon nighttime sleaze. I'm tired of hearing frigging teenagers re-write the book on a great musical era by referring to snyth scores as "CHEESY." Films like Scarface, The Keep, Thief of Hearts, Midnight Express, Thief, Manhunter, and the U.S. cut of Legend had some of the best musical scores ever put on film, much cooler, darker and moodier sounding than some derivative instrumental score that Ratner will no doubt slap on this remake. The music to Manhunter, and the stark, white ultramodern production design, STILL give me goosebumps, and I see NOTHING dated about that look. Am I alone in this opinion? The '80s aesthetic was and remains a hell of a lot cooler than today's "Murkvision with a James Horner score" aesthetic!
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Well the cast sure looks great, even though this movie still seems like an unnecessary cash-in, and dipshit Brett Ratner certainly doesn't deserve to deal with actors of this caliber (I heard somewhere that he and Norton got into a pushing match on the set; anyone else know if this is true?). Brett Ratner deserves a serious beatdown. He's a privileged punk. But then again, so is Moriarty. Ha! -
Michael Mann is a good man for making "Heat", a modern classic if ever there was one. But he didn't have what it took to make the ending from "Red Dragon", so he threw together some lousy shootout. Boring! And where did Iron Butterfly come from? And while we're at it, what happened to the VERY interesting midsection that talked about Dolarhyde's childhood? And the subplot about the painting, and the Dragon speaking to Dolarhyde? The movie didn't explain the tattoo, the teeth, the tiger, or really much of anything about Dolarhyde. Despite all of this underwriting, though, Noonan did a great job. If Lenny Nero can pull off a role that is meant to be a disfigured giant, and they keep the book's ending (please?), then I'll eagerly see it. Even if it will be billed as a Hannibal movie. This has been a Moment with User ID Indeed! I'VE NEVER SEEN A TALKBACKER AS DISGUSTNG AND DIRTY AS YOU!
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You know, I'm really getting sick of people putting down Manhunter because it is "so 80s." To me that's the best part about it. I think the soundtrack to that film and the cool pastel-colored clothing were awesome and kept my interest through some of the slow parts of the film. And the Cinematography developed between Dante Spinotti and Mann was breathtaking. Of course, Dante will take a different approach to the look of Red Dragon. BTW, unlike most of you cynical talkbackers, I'm really looking forward to Red Dragon. Manhunter is a classic, but i've always felt a version should be made that's more closer to Harris' excellent novel. Those that are bitching and moaning that Manhunter shouldn't be remade should read the book, then they will see why.
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The ending's supposed to be more like the book's than Manhunter's, but after seeing these pictures, I want to make a prediction about how the film's gonna end. There's a photo of Graham (Norton) showing his wife how to shoot a gun. If you teach someone how to shoot a gun in a movie, that person has to use it in a situation later in the film. So who do you think is gonna blow the Tooth Fairy away at the end, if he comes after Graham at the Graham home?
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..that doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Silence or even the flawed Hannibal.I'm no Ratner fan but he's right on the money with his comments about Micheal Mann's boreathon!Manhunter is a disgrace to the novel.
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Are you really going to tell me Ralph Fiennes cant top what's his names performance in "Manhunter"? Please! Have any of you SEEN Schindler's List? This guy can play a psycho with a capital P! In you face, Noonan! Yes , Ratner's a hack & should be shot for calling Ralph an unknown, but I still think that with this cast, there's plenty o' hope.
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Jun 17, 2002 5:02:50 PM CDT
If it weren't for the 80s, none of you would have been born!
by christopher3
Fanboys.
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Jun 17, 2002 6:14:00 PM CDT
having just read RED DRAGON, I agree that MANHUNTER was a cool l
by tall_boy
I mean, yeah, the "in the gada da vita" at end was REALLY freakin' cool, and the first half of the flick was pretty bang on to the book. The problem is they completely took a piss on the character of FRANCIS DOLARHYDE aka. the Red Dragon/Tooth Fairy. (mini-spoilers here) Nothing of the skull-fuck you sideways backstory that he had was established and the "love story" with the blind chick was just washed over.(end) I'm on a bit of a mini-hanibal lecter kick lately (reading all of the 3 novels back 2 back 2 back). And, having just started to read HANIBAL, I still believe that RED DRAGON is the best novel of the series. And the cast for this flick, simply just, well, it rocks. Ok, so the Rush-Hour dude is directing it. big deal. As long as they don't try to cram it into 90 minutes (along with an expanded Hanibal Lector capture sequence), let the story breathe and flesh out the character of Dolarhyde, this flick could, quite simply, leave MANHUNTER in the dust. here's hoping.
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...handing Brett Ratner "Red Dragon" is the equivalent of giving the Batman franchise to Schumacher, or a Superman movie to McG.
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Jun 17, 2002 6:56:36 PM CDT
IN-A-GADDA-DA-VIDA HONEY! DON'T YOU KNOW THAT I'LL ALWA
by episode2sucked
Sorry, but that song goes through my head any time I think of either the book or original movie. And damn near everything about the 80s sucked big time.
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Here's a link to see the new poster for Red Dragon...It's freaking awesome!!
http://www.impawards.com/2002/red_dragon.html
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First off the make up they did on W.M. in Hanging Up looked better then this. Second to whoever was giving all that praise to Ralph Fiennes above rocks by my book. Now to the point. To everybody bitching about the 80d
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Actually would you mind explaining what made 8mm suck? I
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This Talkback list is a mess! Does it just blindly toss messages it?
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Does it just randomly toss messages at it?
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My greatest reservations with regards to this is that it seems a wee bit too loaded with star baggage to make the characters jump off the screen as separate entities. Good actors all but it seems like overkill to me. Cinema is full of ensemble epics that have stiffed lamentably. Logically it is being sold to a wider audience on the back Hopkin's Lecter, but his role in RD was never that pivotal. I personally would have preferred Dolarhyde to be played by an uncredited actor, much as Spacey did in SE7EN. Still I am curious to see if Fiennes can pull it off. He has the intensity, I'm just not sure he has the physicality which is integral to Dolarhyde's "becoming". But then who the hell was Ted Levine before stitching up (pun intended) his role as Jame Gumb in SILENCE? I, too, was disappointed that Mann could find no room for the climactic scene in the book - of considerable emotive force - where Dolarhyde must decide whether to consume, or be consumed by, his inner dragon. This whole scenario WAS the story to me, and it made Dolarhyde an unquestionably great, sympathetic man-monster. Hopefully that will be addressed this time around.
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hello all. now, TRUST ME ON THIS ONE - having been a former intern at Rat Entertainment, and having been on the actual locations, i can tell you that while RED DRAGON won't be the great movie some may hype it up to be - im sure it'll be an entertaining installment of the Hannibal series (at least, better than the rather dull Ridley Scott gorefest last year). as for MANHUNTER, the movie is still cool and a seminal Michael Mann piece - if anything, Ratner will add more polish to this version. And let's not forget Kristi Zea and Dante Spinotti - they have contributed a LOT to the look of the film.
I agree Ratner is not the most innovative director for this movie. but if anything, he was one of the few who could have garnered this cast and crew and all in all - im still looking forward to it. it'll be a nice movie for the fall lineup.
and, by the way, the ted tally script for this one DOES fix the ending up - and has a very nice opening scene in which ed and tony meet for the first time. it's something to catch you off guard!
well, that's it for now. -
I really don't believe that there is people in this world who says that Manhunter is better than Silence of the Lambs. C'mon, Manhunter is just another 80's movie, with that crappy style and those awful new wave songs. It isn't all bad, but there are things in this movie that are totally wrong, specially the way Mann and Cox handled with Lecter personality. Geez, in this movie he sounds and looks like a truck driver! Now, SOTL is simply one of the best movies ever made (#14 on my list). Hopkins' Lecter is the best cinema's serial killer ever, Foster pulls every single layer of Starling off, and the scenes between those two are some of the most briliantly acted, written and photographed scenes of movie history. I'm sorry for you people that don't appreciate SOTL... (by the way, sorry about the gramatical errors, i'm Brazilian)
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Is theyre any excuse in this age of movie magic? They made Tobey MaGuire look 20 pounds lighter in his brief scene before morphing into Spider-man. Seems to me that since Hanibal doesnt move around much it would be an easier task to pull off. Audiences will simply laugh when they see his scrotum-like complexion and rit-dyed hair.
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Is it just me or is it just plain b-s to have Fiennes try to upstage the terrific Noonan? I mean, c'mon... Noonan is the MAN in Manhunter!!
Even though I loved/love Manhunter and I loathe Hannibal I'm gonna give Red Dragon a chance, mostly due to Hoffman & Keitel.
PS: I'd rather see William Peterson then Ed Norton (especially after having endured The Score)... -
Manhunter? Boring, dated, and cliched as hell! When I saw it for the first (and last) time on TV...I laughed out loud, then I realised it wasn't going to get any better. I mean come on lets remember the beginning people? Big Boss Man cop walks along beach with silent brooding 'burnt out cop'. "Help us get this guy...we're helpless without you. We need you, we need the BEST Rambo - Uh, I mean Manhunter, or whatever your name is". Reply? "Its not my war". And that was as good as the script got. Will watch this one though, seeing all the posts that say the book is different and ergo better, besides...its got Amon/Charles Van Doren in the cast, and thats THE reason to see this one. Who knows, maybe he's finally appearing in another good film!
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What was missing from Manhunter? All that backstory with Dolarhyde, everything that made him plausible. If Lecter gets an expanded role, they won't bother with all that, just have lots of spooky chills scenes with Hopkins hamming it up with funny sucking noises. And speaking of funny sucking noises...
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...in Manhunter is truly astounding. We feel his menace and conniving intelligence throughout the film even though he is on screen for all of five minutes. This is no HAMmibaL Lector (a la HOPKINS Grand Guinol shtick), but a terrifyingly accurate portrayal of the inner workings of a psychopath. Just for the record, I have also seen both actors in the role of Titus Andronicus' (Shakespearian psycho) and there was/never has been any question as to who was the finer of the two. Cox is, quite simply, one of the finest actors in existence, on stage or screen. It's just that, unlike Sir Anthony, we'll probably never get to see him in a lead role because he refuses to suck the Hollywood pencil-dicks. I think the nearest equivalent America has in terms of acting breadth/scope is Kevin Kline. So under-rated it's unreal.
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