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Another Positive BIRDS OF PREY Review!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Man, we’re getting a lot of buzz on “Birds of Prey.” Somebody needs to send me a copy of the pilot before I get all angry and frustrated. You don’t want me reviewing it when I’m all angry and frustrated! Herc smash!! And pop in a copy of that “Firefly” show I keep hearing about!
Here’s “Eternia Lad”:
Hey Herc... long time reader (you and I are Buffy-ites), but here's my
first
Scoop to you. This morning, across my desk comes the pilot for Birds
of
Prey... among other interesting WB cassettes hailing their coming fall
season. Of all the things in the box: Fastlane, What I Like About
You...
etc... Birds was what I was most eagerly anticipating... both for the
sheer
girlie kick ass -ness, and the Batman connection. So.. Sit back, and
I'll
give you a fan's review, and a critics perspective.
OK... As a geek... it is a thorough joy to see Oracle portrayed on
screen so deliciously, as well as the Huntress in all her bad ass
attitude.
The one character that depressed me a bit was Black Canary. Dinah is
one of
my favorite characters from the Silver Age. They futzed with her
ability a
bit. She's more like Kristen in Nightmare on Elm Street 3, than
anything
else. She can see pain, and enter people's heads. No Sonic Scream
yet...
though maybe it will come later. Another gripe is an obvious
Scarecrow-like
villain... with no ties to the Scarecrow. Kinda sad considering they
spent
so much effort to honor the roots of these characters.
The best parts
are,
by far, the flash back scenes involving Batgirl... the way she SHOULD
have
looked on film and the end showcasing Harlene Quinzell as the big bad.
Since Batman the Animated Series debuted and we were introduced to
Harley
Quinn... she has been one of the most beloved characters in the Batman
mythology. And to know that one day we will see her realized on film
by
such a wonderfully creepy (and stunningly beautiful) actress as Sheryl
Lynn
Fenn is a fanboy's dream come true.
The feel of the show is very faithful to the books, as well as to
the Tim
Burton Batman films. There is a sweeping sense and overall grandeur of
New
Gotham (?) yet a stark reality that a place like this could indeed
exist.
The dialogue is obviously written by comic fans... yet, unlike the
mounds of
fan fiction... these comic fans know how to write expositional dialogue
and
not make it sound like expositional dialogue. And overall... it will
make
comic fans VERY HAPPY!...
Now... as for regular television viewers, will this have the pick
up
that say Smallville or Alias had with a crossover, non-genre audience?
Maybe. First off... the people seeing this have to not be still
heaving
from the bad taste of Batman and Robin. If they can stomach the
thought of
seeing another incarnation of the Batman legend in media... then you've
won
half of the battle. Secondly, you have to suspend your disbelief and
what
you "think" you know about Batman.
Now at this point you're probably
saying
"this guy has mentioned Batman like 10 times... and Batman isn't even
in
this show." Well in essence he is VERY MUCH in this show. His shadow
propels Barbara to do what she's doing. Helena's resentment of him
propels
her angst, and his imprint on Gotham has not left. The police are
scrambling to maintain the order since the Dark Knight's departure.
The show picks up mid stream in Oracle and Huntresses' war on
crime.
However, it is the origin of how Black Canary comes to be with them.
And
we learn a lot about the past 7 years of Gotham through her dreams in
the
opening. The flow of the story is well paced. The content is exciting
for
Bat-fans and non-gothamites alike. There are great senses of Heroism
and
Feminism flowing out of that Watchtower. The characters are really
well
developed and not just plopped down. They have issues. They have real
problems they are trying to deal with, all while devoting themselves to
'their cause" A nice touch was the mirroring of how Oracle and
Huntress
take Dinah under their wing... much the way Bruce takes Dick and
Barbara. I
think Barbara feels like she's giving something back. The story is
compelling enough for a pilot, and I guess the lack of a crazy costumed
villain was smart for the initial sell. I have a feeling that as the
series
progresses we will see more characters that the continuity is familiar
with.
It's directed in an almost formula action show kind of way... with only
slightly creative impulses. One of which I hated was this cheesy sound
effect of a cat-like growl when the Huntress leaps and attacks. OK..
we get
it.. she's Catwoman's daughter. The show expands on the idea that
Catwoman
was not entirely human... and she passed on some of those genes to
little
Helena. She does this thing where her eye morphs into a cat-like eye as
she
searches an apartment. Hmmmmm. Don't know how much I like that. But
again, the character development, and interaction really makes up for
all of
that. This show has a lot of potential. I really hope it turns out to
be
something monumental in the DC universe. I would love to see the
series
finale with Batman returning to Gotham... and maybe the beginning of a
film
franchise again. Who knows?
Bottom line...
Birds of Prey is an action-comic book fans dream. Sexy, strong women
dealing with creepy villains in a moody, stylistic world filled with
familiar faces and places. As far as good TV goes, This pilot has as
much
potential as Buffy did. This could possibly be the next big genre hit.
It's has comedy, pathos, action, and drama it looks cool and has a real
Dawson-y soundtrack. The show will have it's detractors people will
call it
Alias meets Felicity times 3.
People will say that it's Smallville on
Estrogen. To those people I say... Lighten up. Stop comparing Apples
to
oranges. People who like this may not like Smallville. People who
like
Felicity will probably hate this. But people will like this. The
only
question is how many... and will they be enough to keep it on the air.
My
prediction... in the words of Gene Wilder in Young Frankenstein...
"It
...
COULD..... WORK!!!!"
Yours Truly,
Eternia Lad
Defender of the Secrets of Castle Grayskull
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+ Expand All
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What have the holiest of holy tv execs have lined up for us this fall? This? This utter nonsense that won't last a year or two beyond birth? ---Me thinks 24 can't come any sooner
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Jun 11, 2002 9:47:51 PM CDT
I am gonna watch this show and through away my Batman and Robin
by steal_dragon
But I wish they made Huntress a regular human with gadgets, like instead of her having the power to see in the dark, give her night vision goggles, and have her use ropes and stuff to glide around Gotham. Also I would make Black Canary more of a delinquent then a sweety. Other than that the show sounds cool and I am hyped that my favorite character in the Batman Universe Harley Quinn, is in the show played by the hot Sherlyn Fenn.
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Jun 11, 2002 9:48:21 PM CDT
I am gonna watch this show and throw away my Batman and Robin VH
by steal_dragon
But I wish they made Huntress a regular human with gadgets, like instead of her having the power to see in the dark, give her night vision goggles, and have her use ropes and stuff to glide around Gotham. Also I would make Black Canary more of a delinquent then a sweety. Other than that the show sounds cool and I am hyped that my favorite character in the Batman Universe Harley Quinn, is in the show played by the hot Sherlyn Fenn.
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This is the one show I am truly looking forward to this season. Buffy, Alias' Sydney Bristow, and now the Birds of Prey? Life isn't so bad after all.
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I just bought Tim Burton's BATMAN on DVD and finally got around to purchasing Danny Elfman's original score to the film (which is something I've been wanting for years). What can I say? I'm just crazy that way. Honestly, I think that this show has potential. I think we've all been craving for a decent Batman project since Joel Shumacher tainted the mighty franchise seven years ago (I didn't like BATMAN FOREVER either). I'd really like to see BIRDS OF PREY turn out to be a monster hit, a great addition to the Bat-myth that won't leave the fans in a fit of seething rage (one can only hope).
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I just want to see Dina Meyer in black leather. Will this follow "Smallville's" freak-of-the-week format, or are they going to pursue a season-long big bad a la Buffy?
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For B.O.P. script pages, check out http://daspoilers.proboards4.com
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"She does this thing where her eye morphs into a cat-like eye as she searches an apartment. Hmmmmm." So they're ripping off Mutant X? _That's_ not a good sign...
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Mutant X has the copyright on girls doing the thin where one's eyes morph like a cats'! Up to 22 people may be outraged...
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...but they're NOT going to have extreme closeups of Alicia Silverstone's rubber-clad ass and crotch as she suits up? That's it. I'm not watching. sk
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I gotta agree with the review. Really enjoyed it. It has a tremendous amount of potential.
The whole mind melding thing wasa bit weird, but still entertaining.
I also understand that Mark Hamill did the voice over for the Joker in the pilot. (THis hasn't been confirmed, but it does sound like him...) -
Aright Drjkyll, you've seen the show, to answer your question YES that is definitely Mark Hamill's voice as the Joker in Flashbacks. They had that on Dark horizons (I think) quite awhile ago... now part two.. how do they explain Batman's sudden absence? For me, there's no way it could work unless it's becasue of injury, in which case maybe we could get our Azrael on before season's end. But I've heard he just gives up on Gotham. Gives up on Gotham!? WTF?! Not MY Batman, he would've died cleaning up that city. Soooo does his absence work? Is it logical? How old would he be during the show's time. Maybe if he's in his 50's or so I can understand... but otherwise...
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Bruce leaves because he is slowly being driven crazy because of the guilt from Selena's death. Once Helena learned that her father had a secret life as Bruce Wayne and didn't protect her mother/his lover -- she pushes him out of her life and he loses it all. In a nutshell.
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SPOILERS.... My biggest problem with Birds of Prey was that it makes clear that two of the girls are metahumans, but they almost get their butts kicked by the villain who is a human being who is only human, but who happens to have some hypnotic drugs. It's three against one - and the guy has no superpowers - and he still almost beats them. Metahumans need to fight other humans!!!
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Don't be afraid of COSTUMES! Put Huntress in her current costume from the comics. It's very cool and could easily translate to TV. Same with Harley Quinn.----If Spiderman's $350 million to date box-office proves anything, it's that the public WILL accept superheroes in costume if the story and characters are interesting and PLAYED STRAIGHT. (This is a re-post from the other BOP thread.)
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Jun 12, 2002 11:25:23 AM CDT
I hate these shows where the 90 pound chick beats the 300 pound
by billbrasky
This crap is getting ridiculous! How much more of this grrrrl power BS will spew forth from the bowels of a feminist controlled, penis-envying Hollywood??!! Enough is enough already!!
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this show will probably be diluted by shit like she-spies. when hollywood starts imitating, everyone is doomed.
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Jun 12, 2002 12:05:01 PM CDT
Yes, let's return to the days when "Fall Guy," "Hunter," "Th
by christopher3
Quality shows all, except for the fact that they all had damned *wimmin* in 'em. Forget everything you've heard; everyone knows it's them penis-envying feminist wimmin who *really* run the media!
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Nothing I've seen so far has gotten me too excited about this whole thing, but I will watch the pilot just to satiate my curiosity. I felt the same way about Smallville and have come to really enjoy that show. So, here's hoping for the best: DC needs some serious help. By the by, I've written a script for Batman V that I call BATMAN: INCARNATE. It may not appeal as much as Spider-man or X-men, but it's at least as good as Blade or Batman Returns, and a whole lot better than those last two POS Batman movies. If anyone would like to read a synopsis, just say the word. If any of you have an ideas on how to get this into the right hands, I'm all ears.
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keep Joel "I killed Batman" Schumacher far, far away from this! It couldn't hurt
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Haven't they played the whole "empowering" card long enough?! I mean there's what, 3 or 4 "women only" networks out there? There's even oatmeal and drinks just for women. I'm sick of it all!!
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Jun 12, 2002 2:23:57 PM CDT
I still say it looks like "Black Scorpion" without the cleavage.
by inkymae
and I really, really liked the cleavage.
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Jun 12, 2002 2:55:59 PM CDT
The show's not even on yet, and he's already talking abo
by voice o. reason
...that's not a good thing.
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Martial arts require more finese and skill than physical strength, si its totally feasible that these light-weight women could get the ass of an overweight thug. Sick of shows where women are the heroes? How about a show where they stay in the kitchen and bake cookies all day? Is that what you want?
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How could he leave? If they ever plan on doing anything with Batman Beyond this would not work. It would have to be explained in detail instead of glossing over it. Maybe they could let Bruce do some cameos later on in the show and bring him back to gotham....not as Bats, but just as Brucie helping out....my 2 cents
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I admit it takes skill to be a martial artist, but there is no way in HELL a spindly little Buffy or Huntress or whatever you want to call her, could beat the crap outta someone like Tank Abbot or Butterbean. It would be like the bear and the rabbit joke!!
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just curious...
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Jun 12, 2002 3:58:47 PM CDT
as every pioneer is ruined by copycats and rip-off artists,
by yankeessuck
so will the few successful heroine themes be minimized by society's need to cash in. alls i'm sayin is 'too much too soon.'
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Next thing, them uppity chicks will be wanting the vote!
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But I'm right and all red-blooded American men know I'm right!Stand up and take back your TV!
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Can't wait for this. But comics are sooo much more grown-up than TV these days. What's with all the Huntress and Oracle breast display? Surely that robs the characters of their strong feminist ideals? Having learned from the Trek franchise; Seven of Nine/T'Pol - is this just going to be another teenage 'Rack-Watch'?
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I've been lurking the TalkBacks for years, and it never ceases to amaze me how much you people whine and bitch about all this. Instead of being happy that these projects are getting made by people who care about the characters, you whine about the casting. I'll let you in on a little secret: I've met Hugh Jackman. He's at least six feet tall, probably 6' 2". I have yet to meet a Wolverine fan who didn't think that Hugh nailed the character of Wolverine in the first X-Men movie. They don't even think about the fact that Wolverine in the comics is well under 6' tall, because Hugh's performance brought the character of Wolverine to life. Why do I bring that up? Because nobody thought Michael Keaton ought to be Batman. Nobody though Tom Cruise ought to be Lestat. Many of you bitched about Matthew Lillard being Shaggy, and I'm guessing he's going to be the one bright spot in this summer's pile of Doo. They're ACTORS, kids. They act. They become other people. That's what they do. If you get people who respect the project and can write solid and fleshed out characters, then a good actor has all the tools they need to make it work. Here's a note about translating comics to big and small screen ventures; don't get so hung up on who they cast. If you pay attention to how these heroines are drawn, the only people that could be cast based on physique would be the Pam Andersons of the world. Then you'd bitch because a) those women usually can't act for sh*t, and b) you'd argue that "they" were obviously fake. To achieve a level of physique required to kick a well-built man's butt, you'd have to hire female body builders and/or professional female wrestlers (Chyna, for one). You'd bitch about them, too, because a) they often can't act, and b) they'd look too butch. So they cast attractive women who can act (in many cases) and you bitch because you don't buy the fact that they could kick somebody's butt. This, of course, completely ignores the fact that they are playing characters who have either some kind of augmentation (mutant/metahuman) or years of extensive training. Even a little guy can kick your ass if he really knows how to fight. And for whoever it was who complained that two "metahumans" (DC's weak response to the popular Marvel "mutant") were taken down by a guy with hallucinagenic drugs, I'd have to point out that the Joker was initially created by a fall into a mix of all kinds of toxic and potentially radioactive slime; that same radioactive element spawned the entirety of the current super-hero population (at least in the Marvel universe, I'm not as up on DC). The Joker is more than just a guy with green hair, pale skin, and a wicked smile; he's always been very clever, unusually strong and agile, and seriously insane. He's probably some form of metahuman in his own right. I personally doubt they'll get into the whole "metahuman" thing in the series, anyway. -- SPYder, out. P.S. quit bitching and just support the good shows, kids.
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Nuff Said!!
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Jun 12, 2002 6:31:48 PM CDT
Bill Brasky! Hey I know Bill Brasky! He once made me dance aroun
by coop
OK SNL reference over. I can only assume you are playing the character and not really THAT full of testosterone. The whole grrl power thing does seem a bit of an insecurity issue on the part of women sometimes but there is no need to get hostile about it. On the subject of Buffy, she's supposed to have super powers, she's not a regular girl so your argument is pointless. You might as well say, "there's no way Superman could stop that plane, people can't fly and they definitely can't lift a plane, those things are heavy". If you WERE serious, trim that mullet, change out of your Earnhardt hat and t-shirt, and join the rest of us in the 21st Century.
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Jun 12, 2002 6:45:42 PM CDT
Thanks Coop. I thought I'd have to go on like this for hours
by billbrasky
This was all just a ruse to fire everyone up and make it interesting! Just playing around. No hard feelings everyone!
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Good to know it was a parody. p.s., my wife sends her best. Here's to Bill Brasky!
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It will be interesting to see what other DC Superheroes or baddies appear on this show. I guess anyone currently in DC comics could. And what about Marvel X-overs ?
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I meant to say that metahumans should fight other metahumans - not metahumans should fight humans. I've actually seen the "Birds Of Prey" pilot, and in it they do make a big deal out of the fact that the Huntress and Black Canary are "metahumans" - which made it really pathetic when they were almost taken down by some guy with some drugs. They make a big deal of the fact that these are powerful women, but they don't give them someone equally powerful to fight against. That had better be corrected in subsequent episodes, or this series will not last long.
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My theory, which I hope the producers have in mind, too, is that Batman is away from Gotham temporarily due to his grief over Catwoman's death. So, off-camera, we can assume that he's having adventures around the globe, maybe even working with the Justice League. If Nightwing appears in this series occasionally, hopefully he'll reveal what's up with Batman. But I agree that there's no way that Batman would stay away for so long. So, to better rationalize this, the producers should say that every 22 episodes roughly represents 5-6 months in real time. Thus, if the series runs for 7 seasons, and Batman returns in the series finale, only 3 years will have passed. My vote for who should play Bruce Wayne/Batman when/if that time comes for BoP: Bruce Campbell.
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*did* die, in Frank Miller's "Dark Knight" mini-series. Bruce Wayne had been revealed as Batman, so he went to ground and Alfred blew up Wayne mansion so it couldn't be searched. As he watched it explode he collapsed from a heart attack, thinking "How fitting..."
- - - Except that DK was an "Elseworlds" tale, so it wasn't "in continuity". - - - Of course, DC now has the "Hypertime" concept to explain away all continuity glitches - "reality" is subject to some *really* gross quantum fluctuations... -
I agree with you 95%. The 5% being the most obvious casting calls that were missed for some odd reason or other. Yes, Jackman gave a great performace. The scene in the snow after his truck crashed sure sold me. JK Simmons was very good as JJJ too. However, there were other more obvious choices that would have worked much better IMO. Harvey Keitel would have been awesome as Wolverine. Not only is he well under 6 feet tall, but he's also much closer in age to the character. For some reason, fans think of only the height and not the age difference when they speak of Jackman. Furthermore, R. Lee Ermy would have chewed up the screen as JJJ. Sure, these parts were well played by the actors who earned the roles. I just can't help but wonder what could have been had the roles gone to more experienced actors who fit the mold more closely.
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the stills I saw looked cheesy. Well I hope the acting is up to par. Who's Catwoman's daughter? The Huntress is Catwoman's daughter?? Did I read correctly? Is this something being done for the show? I don't read Batman comics, but I do read JLA(the book has gone to hell since Morrinson left) and I know the Huntress was on the team for a short while, but I didn't know she was Catwoman's daughter. I guess it's a show thing.
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Hey kids. I have to apologize for my Joker comment. I've been reading the pilot script for BOP and I think the hallucigenic guy in question is probably Scarecrow (but don't expect the old hay suit). I was assuming that was a reference to the Joker. I think I was wrong. I'm only on page 20, but the MO fits Scarecrow more than the Clown Prince of Cime. Pretty cool so far. I'll write more later -- SPYder, out.
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I agree that Harvey would have been an interesting choice for Wolverine. I think that both he and Mel Gibson have been considered over the long and troubled history of the X-Men film project. I think I've actually seen concept sketches of Gibson as Wolverine, which was kind of interesting (either that of I've had one helluva hallucination myself). A note on Keitel and Gibson, though, it was pretty clear from casting Marsden, Jansen, Paquin, and Berry that the movie team was going to be younger than in the comics. Keitel would have been an interesting choice, but he's just too old for where the movie was going. -- SPYder, out.
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Heh... silly me. I also said they probably wouldn't get into the whole "metahuman" thing in BOP. Duh. They do. Kind of have to in order to explain all the freaks they'll run into, like the meteor shower in "Smallville" or the Hellmouth in "Buffy." There needs to be a reason there are freaks to do battle with. Silly me. -- SPYder, out.
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Rational debate is still possible within these hallowed halls. Wonders may never cease. Cheers! - - - - - - - They were going for the obviously more popular Friends crowd and wisely so. Good for them, more movies for us. We all win. Can't hope to stave off the geek (read: more appropriate and tenured) casting, however. Had they gone with the also rumored and much more talented Angela Basset... hell, even keeping Famke since she's certainly not a kiddie... behold your way workable "elder" cast with way more acting chops. There will always be a 5%!
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They did actually try to get Angela Bassett to do Storm at one point. I heard they didn't have enough money to get her. Not that Halle is cheap, but she was probably available at a better price and would fit in better with the "younger" team. As much as I adore Miss Berry, I still would like to have seen Angela take a shot at it. Certainly would have been more the mature/mothering Storm that the character had been in the comics. Storm on-screen was a little more naive and skiddish, but at least that gives her somewhere to go. Just so long as they give her a better catchphrase in X-2. "Do you know what happens to a Toad when it's struck by lightning?" -- SPYder, out.
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Pre: the 80's reboot of the whole dang DC continuity ("Crisis"), Helena Wayne was the daughter of the *GOLDEN AGE* (40's) Batman and Catwoman on the "alternate" earth where the heroes arose just before WW2 vs. the "current" DC world where they're all in their late 20's/early 30's. They recreated Huntress with her current background a few years back, frankly to keep their trademark active.
I'm frankly glad they went back to the original for this; it always made better sense for me. And much as I'd like to see the ladies in costume, one of the early points in the BoP comic is that they'd be a little too visible running around in spandex and tights, where the black leather jumpsuit look just gives them that Emma Peel style. -
When things change like Gotham to New Gotham it's usually because the show can't or won't afford royalty or character payments to the estates that own the trademarked item. Bascially, it's about money. It's happened before. I read the script to the Enterprise pilot, "Broken Arrow." It called for the Vulcan second-in-command officer to be T'Pau. This would have been very cool because it would have provided a nice continuity between the previous Trek series: T'Pau was the Vulcan high-priestess character who appeared in Classic Trek and at least Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. Having T'Pau be a crew member on the original Enterprise would have been wicked cool for those reasons. However, Paramount would have had to make character payments to the Roddenberry Estate for every episode T'Pau appeared in. Whenever a character you created appears in a t.v. show or a movie or whatever, you as the creator are entitled to character payments. That's probably one reason you were watching Duncan MacLeod instead of Connor MacLeod in the "Highlander" series (if anyone actually watched it). Any time Connor appeared, Greg Widen must have gotten a check. He also probably got a "based on" credit for the whole Immortal world, too. In the case of Enterprise, someone at Paramount must have decided that including T'Pau would have added too much to the cost of pretty much every Enterprise episode. So, the character was changed to T'Pol. In the larger scope it doesn't really matter, because it's the relationship between a human captain and a vulcan second that provides the needed dynamic. However, how could would it have been to know that the first Vulcan crew member on the first Enterprise was T'Pau? In the case of BoP, Gotham was probably changed to New Gotham so they can claim that the story doesn't take place in the Gotham created by Bob Kane and appearing monthly in DC comics. You never know how that stuff works, though, as it probably varies by case. Even though BoP is a Warner Bros. show, and WB owns DC they would probably have had to pay extra money to use that kind of stuff on a regular basis. They may only use the Batman and Joker in the pilot and once in a while in later shows; stuff like the city of Gotham, bat-a-rangs, etc, would appear in every episode and probably be too expensive. Personally, I think it's a shame that the studios don't work this stuff out to give the fans a more complete experience. In the case of Enterprise, it really ticked me off because Roddenberry's franchise has made more than a billion dollars for Paramount over the years (who knows, maybe more than two billion). BoP is in the same boat, in my opinion, because it's cashing in on the whole "Batman" mystique/universe. You'd think they'd just cough up the extra dough and make the shows as cool as possible to increase their odds of success (with both fans and new viewers), but they don't. There's some other little things in BoP that aren't quite as cool as the script called for because it probably would have involved more money. That's the business, though. No matter how emotionally attached we are to these properties, at the end of the day, it is still called show "business." Hopefully, the rest of the show makes up for it. -- SPYder, out.
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I don't think royalties are so much a problem for the WB. Anyway, circumvention of copyrights is a tricky business, as characters "based on" whatever are arguably derivative of whatever and thus potentially infringing.
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You're right, we know that AOL/TimeWarner/Warner Bros/DC. You'd think that would smooth things over, but you'd be kind of surprised how awkward it is to work that stuff out sometimes. This will sound bad, but I could swear I've heard of some development nightmare story where people were going to have to pay for a property/character/something that the parent conglomerate owned, even though they were a division of the same parent company. I'm gonna kick myself now that I can't remember the details, though. Maybe someone lurking in the boards can fill in the blanks for me. Suffice to say, being of the same corporate body doesn't clear as many barriers as you might think. Even if BoP gets to shortcut some things with the Mothership, there are probably still royalty payments to be made to the Kane estate in certain cases. I could get into specifics of why I suspect that, if you want. -- SPYder, out.
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I would be surprised if Warner Bros. had to pay monies to the Kane estate, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had to pay royalties to D.C. - even though both Warner Bros. and D.C. are divisions of AOL TIME WARNER. Each division is expected to carry its own weight and turn a profit, and one division would not give away an asset to another division.
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I don't really know the details of the arrangement between WB/DC and the Kane estate. Do you know if DC owns Batman outright? My comments on character payments were based largely on my understanding of how they work for writers on film and TV, and the scoop on the whole T'Pau/T'Pol thing. I know in that case, monies would have been paid to the Roddenberry estate because T'Pau was a character of his creation. Paramount owns Trek for the most part, but there's extra strings and hoops with certain things. Anyone know accurate info on the whole Bob Kane/DC arrangement? -- SPYder, out.
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I think the real reason T'Pau wasn't used was because it would limit what they could do with the character. Think about it, what if the writers decide to kill her off at some point or turned her against Starfleet? Well, they couldn't if they used the T'Pau name. Yeah, using it would've been cool, but it would've created too many problems.
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Hey, Voice. Good point, but I don't think they're ever really going to kill off T'Pol on "Enterprise." That would be like killing off Spock, and would probably short-change them on a lot of opportunities for later t.v. stories and (who knows) theatrical motion picture options. Unless Jolene Blalock has to leave the show for some unforseen reason, I suspect they'll keep T'Pol around for a while. Though you're probably right about who wrote Amok Time (because I don't know who did), the fact remains that Paramount would have had to make royalty payments to the Roddenberry estate if they'd used T'Pau; I only say that because of information I got from people who were following the development of "Enterprise" pretty closely. It could be wrong, but I doubt it. If it didn't cost them anything to use T'Pau, they probably would have. Just a thought. -- SPYder, out.
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