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HBO's IN MEMORIAM: NEW YORK CITY 9/11/01

Published at: May 26, 2002, 2:32 a.m. CST

I am – Hercules!!

The “Six Feet Under” season finale airs next Sunday. Its timeslot this week is occupied by “In Memoriam: New York City,” which looks to be a don’t-miss look at the Twin Towers tragedy.

9 p.m. Sunday HBO.

TV Guide says:

Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani and members of his staff share their memories of the attacks on the World Trade Center in this sobering documentary. “Sept. 11 was supposed to be a quiet day for me,” says Giuliani at the beginning of the film, but as everyone knows, it was the most trying one of his career. Giuliani, Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, Fire Commissioner Thomas Von Essen and others recall where they were when they first heard of the tragedy, what they were thinking as they sped to downtown Manhattan and what they saw at the scene. Their comments are accompanied by still photos and harrowing video footage, as well as a haunting score by the New York Philharmonic.

Variety says:

There is a sentimentality at work as the piece progresses, a kind of canned, if welcome and truthful, assurance that our grief will make us stronger. Not only does the docu depict eulogies, but it is intended to be one as well. It's a reflection, not an examination, on the events of that day, and while it isn't enlightening, it is certainly tear-jerking.

The Hollywood Reporter says:

Here's something that isn't terribly politically correct for a TV critic to admit: I cried at the end of "In Memoriam: New York City, 9/11/01." And I defy anyone to watch it without having a similarly strong visceral reaction, even some 8 1/2 months after having witnessed the unfathomable as it was in progress. It's sobering just how difficult it is to take in this hourlong recounting of the day that will live in infamy (2001 edition). It's stark, it's raw, it's mostly unfiltered, it's shocking -- and it's still immeasurably horrifying to behold.

The Los Angeles Times says:

HBO will recognize Memorial Day on Sunday with a remarkable film about New York that embraces the entire nation. If ever one documentary earned space in a time capsule to capture an agonizing moment in U.S. life, this defining work is it.

Entertainment Weekly says:

It's the amateur footage that's by far the most affecting, because it offers a peek into specific, individual lives. We get a shot of the burning towers through an apartment window as we hear a woman leave a frightened message for her parents telling them she's safe. We hear casual, profane conversation in the background of a Brooklyn streetcorner. We watch a body falling and hear someone yell at the cameraman: ''Don't take pictures of that, what's the matter with you?'' (And, still, HBO chose to include it, and, still, we watch).

Readers Talkback

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  • May 26, 2002, 2:43 a.m. CST

    I was there...

    by SushiX

    On 9/11, I was stuck in traffic on the Queensborough(sp?) Bridge and was shocked that what we were hearing on the radio all morning was accompanied by the images I saw of the WTCs smoking. My family was already dealing with tragedy because of the fact that we were burying my Grandmother, but we couldnt believe what we saw. We were still grief striken and we felt even worse when we saw the horror of those attacks unfold throughout the day via different footage. May all their souls rest in peace, and bravo HBO, for continuing to raise the programming standards of tv by willing to run things like this.

  • May 26, 2002, 3:01 a.m. CST

    The future.

    by Shrevie

    I saw the towers in flames that day too, from across the East River. And I will watch the program tomorrow night. But I'd like to add that I hope there will be as many examinations of the circumstances that led to the events of that day as of the day itself. If the American public is not educated as to what it's government has been up to, and what it has or has not done since, then there may be worse to come.

  • May 26, 2002, 5:09 a.m. CST

    whatever

    by magicblade_16

    this is just another example, while not as major as others, of a company trying to capitolize on the tragedy. the worst? the real world 9/11 special. next worse? survivor finale, where jeff probst flies aroun the statue of liberty and we get a close up of his face as s/he busts into tears.

  • May 26, 2002, 6:09 a.m. CST

    Shrevie...

    by rap12

    As much as people like you might wish to blame the government, the fact of the matter is that nothing and no cause justified what happened that day. The people who did this were hateful and chose to strike out at an unguarded, CIVILIAN target that killed thousands of people whose lives had nothing to do with the Middle East, least of all Saudi Arabia and its US presence. Make a case if you really want to about the Pentagon, but the WTC was a cheap shot by cowards who knew that they would be able to get a shot in because no sane mind could have foreseen an act of such monstrosity. This is not to justify US policies in the Middle East, either, far from it. We toady to the Saudis for oil and fight Kuwait's battles, and while I respect Israel's right to exist and flourish, I feel that they do so at the expense of the Palestinians, and have been callous and heavy-handed in their treatment of them. The US probaby recognizes this but still chooses to side with Israel whether they are right or wrong. (And that too does not justify the suicide bombers, BTW.) In any case...the World Trade Center attack was a brutal act, a needless one, and an unjustified one, no matter what you or your ilk may believe. I do not care how HBO designed this special, I only want it to be effective, to bring home yet again the horror of what happened that day so that people will be reminded of the scale of what took place that day here in my beloved NYC. As time has rolled on, memories have begun to fade about 9/11, the edges have become softer, and the world has begun to recover. This should never happen. Peace

  • May 26, 2002, 8:50 a.m. CST

    CORRECTION - My own brush with 9/11

    by CSantelman

    Janet Reno was NOT the attorney General when the hijacker was caught in MN. He was caught during the summer before 9/11 - well into the Bush administration. So that would imply that John Ashcroft was the Attorney General - and I'm not sure that the denial for the search warrent was made at his level...

  • May 26, 2002, 11:52 a.m. CST

    Amen, GreatOne

    by NFLRefugee

    It's refreshing to hear someone making sense on this site. Political correctness is going to be the death of the US. These friggin liberals who are want to blame Bush would have been the first ones to cry 'racism' if the FBI investigated Mid Easterns at a flight school. I am a white male (i.e. evil) and I know that most Arab-Americans are good citizens, but I would never get on a flight with one. No way. Gephardt should be ashamed of himself, using this tradedy to position himself for the Democratic nomination in 2004.

  • May 26, 2002, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Months later, I still can't watch people jumping or suffocat

    by Ralph Cifaretto

    When I hear shit about US cultural colonialism being to *blame* for terrorism I just wish we could stop selling McDonalds food to Arab countries & drop a few nukes instead.

  • May 26, 2002, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Yeah Grat One No white Terrorists

    by Pksoze22

    Except Mcviegh, The Unabomber, the IRA.... I'd rather have stringent guidelines for EVERYONE. And I dont know where you live but any guy with Brown Skin (not just Arabs) can attest they dont get free passes while 80 year olds get searched. I just love how racists like you always hide behind PC though. At least be honest you're a racist.

  • May 26, 2002, 1:59 p.m. CST

    racial profiling

    by Salvador_Limones

    I sure hope that the people in charge of security in this country are smarter than folks like "The Great One" and "NFL Refugee". I have no problem with extra scrutiny being laid on people of Arabic descent.... and don't kid yourselves... that is EXACTLY what is happening. But I want to be protected from copycats and other terrorists as well. Even if we're talking about Al-Queda... the one prerequisite to be an Al-Queda terrorist is that you be Musilm. And only 15% of the world's Muslim population is of Arabic descent. Yes, there are many many white Muslims as well. Even white American Muslims. I'm sure the Al-Queda leadership is assuming all Americans are as shit-for-brained as "The Great One" and "NFL Refugee" and doing everything they can to recruit non-Arabic Muslims into their camps. And that's not to speak of the potential of non Muslim terrorist groups wanting to out do the most famous crime in the history of the world. That's why I really hope the people in charge of securing this country have a brain and are somewhat world weary. Ignorance is too easily exploited.

  • May 26, 2002, 2:22 p.m. CST

    RE: CORRECTION - My own brush with 9/11

    by Milktoast

    The Bush/Gore election was in November 2000.

  • May 26, 2002, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Racial Profiling is fine by me

    by magic_ninja

    I don't give a damn who it pisses off. At least at the airports the security won't waste my time checking the 80 year old woman with a walker for knives and bombs. Hell, no one ever says anything about how TEENAGE profiling is wrong, you know, when the cops pull over teenagers just for the simple fact they're teenagers.

  • May 26, 2002, 4:11 p.m. CST

    Play the footage all day long...

    by bc1970

    Do not forget. Keep hurting and remember what's worth fighting for.

  • May 26, 2002, 6:53 p.m. CST

    my personal 9/11 story ...

    by caipirina

    no kidding: There was a bar / dance club on the 107th floor of #1 .. Greatest Bar on earth. They had a fantastic lounge party every wednesday night. And i was scheduled to DJ there on 9/12 !!! I was in fact working on my mix on 9/11 when i got the news .. so many things happened / changed that day .... Is it really true 2 TV movies are in production about that ?? I am still waiting for a Titanic / Pearl harbor like movie event : "a love triangle caught in the historic events of 9/11" hmmm ho hm

  • May 26, 2002, 8:02 p.m. CST

    this day still creeps me out and I'm not even American!

    by Tall_Boy

    I can't watch this stuff, even though I have zero personal connection with it, I saw images of the planes crashing into the buildings over and over in the weeks after the attacks. I just want it to go away. . .

  • May 26, 2002, 10:21 p.m. CST

    Ahh, Darth|Shithead...

    by Darth Brooks

    You're either trolling or naive. If you're not trolling, then you need to understand that appeasement and isolationism won't save you from tyrants and bullies. The *only* response to such aggression is to keep the promise that, if you attack the US, your government and its infrastructure will be destroyed. Remember the Taliban? Well, they're not around anymore. The same it will be for any supporter of Al-Queda - - believe it. Your plan's outcome can best be summed up by doing a Google search on the phrase "Neville Chamberlain". Try reading a little history before you spout again, okay? Thanks.

  • May 26, 2002, 10:24 p.m. CST

    9/11

    by hogarth358

    I remember so clearly sitting down at my computer the morning of Sept. 11th and trying to call my friend Michael in New York. We had been working on some business and I was calling to confirm some things. I remember thinking it was odd that I called for 30 minutes and the phone was busy. Then I switched on the tv and sat there watching the towers come down, knowing that my friend worked there, that he was in the building and that I was watching him die live on television. I don't think any of us need televised rehashes of that day to remember, I think we all have enough memories to remind us and to haunt us. I miss you Mike. I wish you could have seen Clones.

  • May 26, 2002, 10:24 p.m. CST

    The post ironic age

    by MissEdith

    I'm a bitter and cynical 20 year old who taped this for my parents. I feel so ashamed of myself right now. The last couple of months I've found myself becoming flippant about the whole 9/11 and making fun of all the " jingoistic rednecks." Right now I am still shaking from watching this, I cried from about 5 minutes into it and I still feel sobs choking in my throat. The next time I feel the urge to make some crass remark about someones over use of the flag or agree with one of my brain washing professors that America is the ultimate evil and that we deserved this, I'm simply going to rewatch this tape so I can remember the rawness.

  • May 26, 2002, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Fuel from RUSSIA?? Come on...!

    by Kwame

    Fuck the idea that we can get it from Russia...our country has been weaning on the M.E.'s oil for WAY TOO LONG!!!!! We have at our fingertips the knowledge & technology to do use alternative fuels (hydrogen, electricity, etc.) to fuel what we need in our homes, cars & jobs! Why should we continue to be DEPENDENT on old 20th century bullcrap??!? It's a new century guys, after 9/11 it's time to move on in more ways than 1, and leave the M.E. alone to sort out its OWN problems!!!! KWAME out

  • May 27, 2002, 10:22 a.m. CST

    "Mommy, does American fly to Heaven?" --- an interesting rant...

    by Robert Blake

    http://www.misanthropic-bitch.com/wtc.html

  • May 27, 2002, 10:55 a.m. CST

    NUKES?

    by Wee Willie

    You are as stupid as the terrorists who hit the towers. Even stupider. Nukes? What is this, the fifties? You remind me of the Romans.

  • May 27, 2002, 11:17 a.m. CST

    Choose your enemy

    by mulberry

    When I was growing up in Belfast, things were simple: Catholics were the bad guys - they were the ones who planted bombs in Shopping Arcades, who shot people in the back of the knee or the back of the head, who controlled protection rackets and drug-dealing. Yes, there were Protestant terrorists, too, but they were just gangsters or thugs (and were unlikely to target good Protestant boys, as long as you were careful). Yes, the British government was involved in assassination and dirty tricks, but you had to play the terrorist's own game sometimes, didn't you? It was the Catholics who would blow you up. I never quite believed it of all Catholics, because I knew some and could see beyond my situation through books and history and TV, but it was still there in my mind. My equal and opposites on the other side had much the same ideas, but in reverse. There was some bias in the media on eitehr side which made us feel better by supporting our prejudices, and everyone around me espoused much the same opinion. Why would I want it to be otherwise? We had to live with that constant menace. If we could have, we would have killed or expelled all our enemies and make ourselves safe again (like the old days, apparently). Now I am older, wiser and sadder. I know that the problems were always more complicated than I was made to believe. Most people I used to know have not changed viewpoint. They have no reason to, and plenty of reasons not to. Even when we lived 500 yards from our enemies, we couldn't see how wrong we both were. Only how right we were. I don't expect anyone else to be able to want to do anything else.

  • May 27, 2002, 11:35 a.m. CST

    Every US Citizen Should Be Forced to Watch this Documentary Ever

    by HerbChambers

    Thank god someone finally had the balls to do this. I was on 14th St. on 9/11 and, thankfully, slept in to 11AM that morning and didn't witness any of the carnage first hand. Just last month, at a friend's apartment, I saw (for the first time) a TIME magazine article where people were jumping from the World Trade Center towers. Say what you will, but these images need to be shown-- they are horrific, terrifying, and hard to watch, but guess what? IT HAPPENED. By sugar coating 9/11 and just showing two buildings collapse we do ourselves no favors. People need to be slapped in the face with what happened that day and this documentary finally did it. We need the harsh reminders, and anyone even considering criticizing HBO for broadcasting those images obviously was nowhere near New York on September 11th.

  • May 27, 2002, 11:47 a.m. CST

    Why are Americans so proud of ignorance?

    by CISCO Bunny

    Why is it unpatriotic to look at the problems in the 3rd World and Arab countries? Why is someone "justifying" or "making excuses" when they do so. And someone please e-mail me and tell me ONE THING THAT RUDY GIULLANI DID DURING THE TRAGEDY! Did he pull someone out of the burning rubble? Did he smack a terrorist plane out of the sky? What? Why do we pretend he showed unlimited courage? And Bush, too. All I remember about Bush on 9-11 was that he hid like the scared little Nazi thug that he is.

  • May 27, 2002, 12:56 p.m. CST

    yo,Cisco

    by I87D

    which one are you, Seth or Christian?..............ps - why don't I find it surprising that you think you so privy to the truth in this matter? oh, yeah, it's because you (both of you, Seth and Christian) think you know the truth about everything. here's another truth that the "ignorant" society around you has yet to find out: you and Seth (or you and Christian, depending on who you are) are not funny, not talented, and are going be dropped by your agent soon because your spec scripts are never going to get you any real work. truth hurts, don't it? yeah, great idea making an "independent TV pilot." that's classic... when I first about that from Sarah, I really thought it was a joke. I thought you guys really came up with something funny. but, no, you two were serious! you really did waste all your time and money and energy an independent TV pilot that turned out to not be any good anyway!! truly classic.... i get a chuckle out of the idea to this day.

  • May 27, 2002, 1:03 p.m. CST

    I've Got An Idea For A TV Show On 9/11

    by NoCureForFools

    it could be called: 9/11: How The Bush Family Helped Kill A Whole Lot Of People and Got Away With It. we could start with some important questions that any TRUE PATRIOT would ask: 1) why were the US trying to build an oil pipeline in Afghanistan? 2) why were the Taliban in Texas prior to attacks working on this deal? 3) what happened to make this deal go sour? 4) why were the Bin Laden family memebers in the US kindly escorted out of the country on 9/11 (the only plane allowed in the sky that tragic day)? 5) why doesn't Bush speak candidly about the fact that Bin Laden financed his first oil company? 6) Why were intelligence reports ignored? 7) Why was Osama Bin Laden inexplicably removed from the top priority only to be replaced with Saddam Hussein? 8) why are terrorists like the Enron executives -- who ruined millions of peoples lives and stole millions of dollars and helped start the massive economic collapse / recession / depression -- allowed to go off scott free? questions, people, questions. the events of 9/11 were truly tragic, but WHY did they happen is what we should be asking and wondering about. endlesly crying about the innocent people who were killed doesn't change anything and, in fact, does them a great disservice. it's like spitting on their graves. how can we really honor the fallen? by unravelling the mystery and machinations behind the attack and punishing the guilty. by questioning the Bush Family, Cheney, the Bin Laden's etc. this is the key. not more sentimental television shows.

  • May 27, 2002, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Yes, Bush is intensely corrupt...

    by DerekG

    While Osama bin Laden and the plethora of terrorist sects are a threat to civilization, we have an equally insidious threat residing in the White House. It would seem that our media ignores the fact that Bush has been using this atrocity as a means to push some of the most sickeningly right-wing (ie. fascist) agendas in the past century. I suppose some of you O'Reilly and Fox News dittoheads might enjoy this political shift in American history. I only wish the Democrats would get the balls to fight this demogogue. BUSH IS NOT CHURCHILL. NOR IS HE ROOSEVELT. Why people do not see that his administration's greed helped bring about this horrific tragedy is maddening.

  • May 27, 2002, 3:22 p.m. CST

    by Darth_Inedible

    DerekG, NoCureForFools, don't you guys have a McDonalds to firebomb? Or some Dutch Politicans to assasinate? I'm sick of your Michael Moore dittohead bullshit. Everything you've posted is either outright lies or half-truths, please take your moronic campus leftist agitprop elsewhere.

  • May 27, 2002, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Yo, I87D

    by CISCO Bunny

    I'm not quite sure exactly what you're babbling about. 99% of it makes no sense. I would email you to inquire about this things, but you've provided a bogus email address. No doubt, you an ignorant Giullani and Bush fan. Your infantile attempt to intimidate me being seemingly revealing personal details about my life is very similar to the bully style that defined the Giullani administration, where every week the police were committing street executions of blacks. Once they even shot a 3 year old black child in the head, because they said "The bag of Doritos he was holding looked like a gun." Where these murderers arrested? No, Giullani actually promoted them. By the way, your comment about "Sarah" really was a shot in the dark, wasn't it? That's how I could tell you were pranking, and have no idea who I am. Nice try, though.

  • May 27, 2002, 4:17 p.m. CST

    Here's the deal

    by Salvador_Limones

    America needs to become self-sufficient so our foreign policy isn't hog-tied by economic concerns. Some of you like to think that everyone else in the world hates us because we're so free and great and we've got brittany spears videos and the glutton bowl on Fox. The Iran hostage crisis happened because the CIA overthrew the democratically elected leader Mossadegh and put the tyrannical fascist dictator the Shah back in power. The Iranians lived under the threat of an SS like goon squad for over 25 years before their "independance" in 1979. Of course they're still not free, but I'd love you hear you dittoheads explain why all this means nothing and they really hate us because we're so free and modern. Our foreign policy has always been based entirely on our own greed and thirst for power and wealth. Don't bother denying this... just accept it... you'd have a lot more credibility if you guys would just admit this and argue that that's the only way we can live the way we do. You'd be right. But then you'd have to stop regurgitating Bush's speech writer's crap about them hating us because we're free. There are many more people with legitimate gripes about U.S. foreign policy than there are terrorists, and the ridiculous attempt to link the two the the lowest kind of anti-intellectual cheating. Yes, terrorists are worthless scumbags, but that doesn't make us the deserving kings of the world. This world needs fixing bad, and we aren't going to be able to bomb away the problems. But we are te ones who need to fix it, because frankly, we're the only ones who can.

  • May 27, 2002, 5:43 p.m. CST

    Moussaoui

    by Vineyarder

    Turns out it's not true he sought training only in flights in the air. The opposite was so; he was interested only in takeoffs and landings. http://slate.msn.com//?id=2066080

  • May 27, 2002, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Hussein was responsible for 9/11?

    by CISCO Bunny

    This is often touted by Republicans to justify invading a country that has never attacked America. I find it odd that Repubs are so eager to do this. They are basically saying that Bush's failure in the first Gulf War directly led to the murder of everyone in the Twin Towers. 3,000 people are dead because Bush Sr. lost the first Gulf War. A question? Didn't Bush promise to "smoke Osama out of his hole" and to "catch him running"? He has FAILED to do so. Recently he has said that catching Osama is "irrelevent" and that he "doesn't want to". This man is a failure and a traitor. He should be impeached. And as for Giullani, there was more than one police street execution. In 99, they were a weekly occurence. Children were killed. You should be ashamed to defend the killing of children. Terrible. Giullani led nothing on September 11th. His command center wwas destroyed, because the idiot decided in 95 that the best place for a terrorism crisis center was the site of the last terrorist attack on New York. What a fool. No one has taken him to task for that million dollar blunder. Who knows how many people are dead because NY did not have a proper command center. Giullani is a thug. I am ashamed that he was the Mayor of our city. Almost as ashamed as I am to have a President that got 1 million votes LESS than the loser.

  • May 27, 2002, 7:32 p.m. CST

    Unbelievable

    by Pksoze22

    On one hand we got predjudiced creeps like the "There are no white terrorists" Great One and NFL Refugee and conspiracy theorists who dont think Giuliani is a hero. Are there any people not so politicized here.

  • May 27, 2002, 8:02 p.m. CST

    Kind words, GreatOne...

    by DerekG

    Perhaps my rant was unfortunately obtuse and general in scope, but I will not apologize for my beliefs. I'll have you know that while I am a yellow-dog Democrat, I am deeply disappointed with my party's failure to stand up to the fourth reich. Anyway, you want specifics; I'm happy to oblige. Examples: Overturning the Presidential Records Act of 1978: Sealing Reagan's and Poppy's White House records, despite the fact that he has no authority to circumvent an vaunted act which is passed by both the House and Senate. What is the the excuse, GreatOne. Will you resort to National Security? Nullifying the ABM Missile Treaty of 1972. The administration is salivating over a missile defense shield that has 90% success rate (10% leaves a lot of room for failure) against an enemy nation that doesn't exist. Destroying attorney-client privilege. Apparently, the government is now privy to communication between detainees and their attorneys. I can't be the only one on these boards who abhors the death of due process. His defeated plans to drill off California's sensitive coast as well as the Alaskan refuge. Bush's proposition to resurrect Cointelpro, whom you may recall sought to destroy the civil rights leaders of the 60's through intimidation and deceit. Not to mention his Axis of Evil statement which destroyed any hope for a rekindled diplomatic relationship with an Iran controlled by the reform party. Tell me GreatOne, do you celebrate the downfall of generations of social programs. If you take into consideration policies preceding 9/11, you can see why I don't like this administration: the election of 2000 (in which Jeb Bush sent out a directive ordering Florida officials to eliminate 50,000 people from voting roles convicted of felonies in OTHER states-illegal-most of which were African Americans clearly voting for Gore); Bush walking away from the Kyoto Treaty (hey, 170 countries could be wrong, right?); gutting the White House Council on Environmental Quality and AIDS offices; cutting 80% of the Community Access Program (which provided basic health care benefits for those in poverty); cutting 39 million from library programs (understandable when considering the man is barely literate); issuing a presidential order to cut all funding to all international organizations performing abortions; raiding Clinton's surplus to implement a tax cut which primarily benefits the upper 4%. I hope you enjoyed your $300 check, GreatOne. I would appreciate a defense of Bush.

  • May 27, 2002, 8:08 p.m. CST

    Well said

    by CISCO Bunny

    You remember a few months ago when the Supreme Court said you had to be thrown out of public housing if a family member was arrested for using drugs? Why is Jeb Bush still allowed to live in the Florida Governor's mansion? Why does he still receive free public housing when his daughter is a convicted drug addict?

  • May 27, 2002, 8:52 p.m. CST

    PKSoze22

    by NFLRefugee

    I never said there weren't any white terroists. Don't put words in my talkback. I understand about McVeigh, and Unabomber. However, the motherfuckers who pulled of 9/11 were filthy towelheads, so of course when I see one at an airport I WILL assume they are a terroist. Does that make me a racist? Maybe. Do I care? Nope. Planes flying into a building don't discriminate against liberals, conservatives, intellectuals, and people like myself. I would rather violate the civil rights of a few to save the life of one.

  • May 27, 2002, 8:59 p.m. CST

    NFL Refugee

    by Salvador_Limones

    NFL Refugee right before he is killed by a European Muslim terrorist recruited specifically to foil ignorant, shit-for-brained mutherfuckers like him: "Hee haw! Me sure glad it wusn't wun of em dity towalheds!"

  • May 27, 2002, 9:16 p.m. CST

    hey Cisco, from I87D,part 2

    by I87D

    it's an old AOL address, and my account was cancelled a couple weeks ago. so sue me. hey, did I actually question anything you said about Guiliani or Bush? Not really, i just focused on your site which I found to be trash when I originally visited, and again when I revisited it after seeing your name. It was, and is, the biggest piece of trash i'd ever seen. Sarah told me about it a couple months ago. Have you met Sarah? I doubt it. She lives in LA, and you apparently live in NYC. (though she did go to NYU for a couple semesters before dropping out, if that means anything)............ Anyways, people will believe what they want to believe about Bush and Guiliani. Some will make them saints, others will make them devils. the truth is somewhere in the middle, of course, and that's a truth that escapes a great many people.

  • May 27, 2002, 9:19 p.m. CST

    Necessary torture

    by Rosajaq

    On September 11th, I was stuck on the subway, which in New York is really nothing new. What was interesting was exactly where I was stuck - between 2 crucial stops, Canal Street and Chambers (WTC). Those of us on that early morning train had no idea what was going on, or what hell was unleashing on the sidewalks above us. We got moving again, mysteriously bypassing Chambers (with no explanation) and got off on Fulton Street. I walked up the staircase and into hell. It was just about 10 to 9:00am. I was headed to the Border's located in the lobby of 5 WTC, after which I was due back in the office (2 blocks from 1 WTC). The first thing I saw was glass, followed by strewn papers all over Fulton, between Broadway and Nassau Street. Next, I saw shoes and several breakfast orders just dumped on the ground. Needless to say, I was dumbfounded. And I was about to be completely shocked. As I looked up to the top of the Trade Center towers, I saw black smoke and fire. People hung from glassless windows. Someone waved a shirt at nearby passing helicopters. A woman screamed, a man lay crying on the sidewalk and I was shocked. So shocked that all I could do was keep walking to make it all be untrue. The rest of the story is quite similar to many other 9/11 survivors. When Tower 2 came down, I ran for my life. I thought back to a scene in Fight Club for some reason and kept running. Good thing I'd kept up on my running, because there was a cloud of gray smoke chasing me all the while. I ran until I couldn't breathe, then I walked very fast. I stopped for water once, eating nothing and talking to no one. How could I? This wasn't real. I was trapped in some damn Michael Bay movie and there was no Bruce Willis to save my world....there was only me. Many of my friends died that day. Coworkers and business associates as well. My fave waitress at Windows is no longer. I can't walk down Trinity Street without remembering that Ground Zero used to be more than the World Trade Center. It was a downtowner's hangout - a mall, a farmer's market, a promenade and a concert hall. So now I come to shows like "9/11" and "In Memorium". Are they necessary? I believe wholeheartedly that they are. Yes, we do have to get on with our lives and not let fear take control, but we can't forget. How can we do that if we're not put smack dab in the center of that world? People need to know about those that died, those that ran to their deaths, those that hid under cars or ran through delis to exits they didn't know existed. And the rest, is silence.

  • May 27, 2002, 9:22 p.m. CST

    NFL Hill Billy

    by Pksoze22

    So you're assuming anyone with brown skin is a terrorist. What if the person is a hindu Indian. They're not Arabs will you assume they're terrorists while accepting guys like Mcveigh walking past you. Last time I looked one of the Americans arrested for being in league with the the Al Queda was a white man . Do us all a favor and leave discussions to people with brain cells. People who dont judge others by skin color. But on the content of their character. BTW If people treated you like crap because of you're religious affiliation or all the bad things white people have done no one would want to be around you either.Losers like you make me sick.

  • May 27, 2002, 9:22 p.m. CST

    how do you change your email address?

    by I87D

    a lot of are still using old addresses from accounts we don't even use anymore... (like those of us who've ditched AOL since our companies gave us accounts of our own.)

  • May 27, 2002, 9:27 p.m. CST

    187d

    by Pksoze22

    Anyways, people will believe what they want to believe about Bush and Guiliani. Some will make them saints, others will make them devils. the truth is somewhere in the middle, of course, and that's a truth that escapes a great many people. .............. So true unfortunately.

  • May 27, 2002, 9:30 p.m. CST

    187D

    by Pksoze22

    Anyways, people will believe what they want to believe about Bush and Guiliani. Some will make them saints, others will make them devils. the truth is somewhere in the middle, of course, and that's a truth that escapes a great many people. .......................... So true. The world is far more complicated than either extreme would try to make it.

  • May 27, 2002, 9:45 p.m. CST

    Hey Cisco, part 3 -- about Sarah

    by I87D

    you must be Christain. Sarah says she definitely knows Seth, and she really hopes he remembers her. i was wrong, she spent more than a couple semesters at NYU. she actually almost had enough credits to graduate before the nervous breakdown? ring a bell? seth was one of the factors that led to her breakdown. she really did like him. a lot. and no matter what he says, she wasn't stalking him. well, she's out in LA now. she actually wants Seth to look her up next time he's in the area...... side note: just because Sarah likes Seth again, I definitely don't never. i've never met the guy, but hearing from Sarah what he said to her, i don't think i could ever forgive the guy. so what if she was a little overweight? anyways, she looks GREAT now! (i guess Seth was kinda a factor in losing all that weight too...)

  • May 27, 2002, 9:47 p.m. CST

    NFL is right (sort of)

    by DunbarLives

    I know, I know he's a racist and has no tact, but he brings up an interesting point: Is the violation of the civil rights of a few, worth it if it saves lives? I tend to think it is. Is there a better solution than profiling? Because if there is no one has mentioned one. I hope there is, but I don't see it. Is there anyone willing to debate this intelligently without getting into personal attacks?

  • May 27, 2002, 9:56 p.m. CST

    Clever clever boy...

    by CISCO Bunny

    ... you really need to get a life. You think you are being very clever, and are pulling some hilarious prank... I'm here laffing my tits off... you think you are rankling my feathers, but you are just speaking gibberish to me. Liars don't bother me.

  • May 27, 2002, 9:57 p.m. CST

    Urchlives,

    by I87D

    profiling is fine, so long as it's a complete profile. racial profiling is controversial because of it's use in traffic stops. people committing crimes in cars are getting away with them while innocent people get pulled over. that's why there's such a stigma over them.........so when it comes to a profile for suicide terrorists, the profile should as as much to do with what makes a suicidal bomber tick as it does what they look like. For example, something that all suicidal terrorists have in common: A hatred/resentment for the society around them, and an intense feeling that death will bring them immortality. This applies not just to the hijackers, but the Columbine attackers, and even Timothy McVeigh, who admits that if the fuse didn't go in five minutes, he would've set it off himself. these are people that a true racial profile would miss.

  • May 27, 2002, 10 p.m. CST

    sorry, Cisco

    by I87D

    i guess I took the joke too far... Sarah just told me to take it all back. she knew she never had a chance with Seth. she knew he was gay. she's not dumb, you know....

  • May 27, 2002, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Gay?

    by CISCO Bunny

    Now you're calling people gay? Ye Gods, you are so clever and funny. You should write comic strips... in all honestly, I am amazed by how badly you are making your point. I'm not really sure what your beef with me is, and why you are accusing me of driving people to nervous breakdowns. Personally, I doubt you know anyone named Sarah... anyway, drop me an email... I would just love to be able to converse with you further...

  • May 27, 2002, 10:11 p.m. CST

    you figured me out.

    by I87D

    i'm sarah. you win. is this seth? i'm so sorry!!!! of course i know your not gay. remember webber (or webster, web-something)? he told me that's why you acted the way you did around me. i didn't believe him. i thought it was because I was so shy, you probably never even knew I was always trying to start a conversation with you! and you only said what you said because you thought i was making fun of you that time you turned around and saw me there, with that face on, and i think you thought that I was insinuating that you couldn't hold your alcohol (even though web also told me you didn't drink much, if at all), and was making fun of the shirt you were wearing, just because i was stretching my shirt to show that it had the oppositte thing written on it (which i wrote on myself with a marker) and you didn't mean to say anything about me that would hurt me. you did. but i forgive you. will you ever forgive me?

  • May 27, 2002, 10:23 p.m. CST

    More more!

    by CISCO Bunny

    Please, more of this!

  • May 27, 2002, 11:43 p.m. CST

    I would like to add...

    by DerekG

    It's apparent that Cisco and I are in agreement over Bush, yet I have to say that I somewhat admire Giullani. While the Chimp was running state to state on Air Force One (a threat later admitted to be a fabrication), the Mayor was the true man to inspire the masses. I am not succumbing to the propaganda, I know leadership when I see it. Still waiting, GreatOne.

  • May 28, 2002, 1:49 a.m. CST

    I Beg To Differ GreatOne

    by NoCureForFools

    1) Not to help our country get richer. To help the RICH get richer. Do you think that the Republicrats or Democans actually give a fuck about the citizens? they give a fuck about who is lining their pocketbooks. for reference: see Enron. if they were really concerned about making the citizen richer and increasing our energy supply, wouldn't it make alot more sense, in terms of economy and bloodletting, to develop alternative energy supplies? the technology is already there (solar, etc.), it just needs development. granted this is the long term view and wouldn't happen overnight. there would still be reliance on Oil in the short term. BUT, this isn't the reason why it's bein stonewalled. the reason is that our very own mulit-billionaire Oil Barons, the Bushes, don't wnat that. it would hurt theirs and their Saudi pals pocketbooks a little too much. 2) For more info on why the Taliban were in Texas see Noam Chomsky's book "9/11" and Micahel Moore's book "Stupid White Men"3) Nope, not an idiot, just informed. you could be too. 4) They were escorted out of the country because someone was hiding something. don't kid yourself. Bush and Cheney are so dirty on this thing it boggles the mind. 5) How distant can a relationship in which billions of dollars are transacted be? c'mon now. 6) Actually, there were mountains of evidence. perhaps not exact, but enough information to warrant aprori action. nothing happened. this is either due to incompetance or indifference. 7) OBL is not dead. they put Hussein on the list because he's convenient. Plus, he has to be wiped out or quelled enough so that the US can build it's precious, precious pipeline. you want to talk about training and arming terrorists? the US was the biggest funder to the Taliban in the 80s, outfitting them with the most technologically advanced weapons they could at rock bottom prices. Likewise, training was involved. The original idea was to back the Taliban in fighting the Soviets who were having their Vietnam in Afghanistan. but then, after the Soviets pulled out, we just left the country a smouldering hellhole. didn't take long for the Taliban to take complete control of teh country. 8) ENRON, absolutely! huge energy company grifting the public? gotta get that fuel from somewheres you know. Lot easier if your bought and paid for representatives have a foot hold where the fuel is. yes, the economies collapse did begin with the bursting of the tech bubble. but the energy economy was doing poorly too. remember last summer and the summer before? energy prices nearly doubled. california was hit very hard. but it hit the whole country. memories are short.

  • May 28, 2002, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Thanks 187

    by DunbarLives

    You brought up some good points. I am glad someone is thinking.

  • May 29, 2002, 5:12 a.m. CST

    My Personal 9/11 experience

    by Jungleman

    I was still stoned as hell from the night before, sitting on the couch in my skivies and decided to turn on CNN I was like wow the wtc is on fire. Then BLammo the 2nd plane hit and I was like Well goddamn! Now don't hate me but im a big fan of chaos and the whole 9/11 thing was about as entertaining as its ever going to get. All in all the hardest part of the experience was pretending to give a damn.

  • May 29, 2002, 11:33 a.m. CST

    America had it comin' (and still does)

    by Looptid

    Sorry folks, it's time to get over this 9.11 shit. America had it coming and still does. Look at Bhopal, look at Nicaraqua, look anywhere in the world, and America is pissing in everyone else's corners. It took some time, but a disenfranchised people struck back. Yeah, it sucked, yeah most of the people didn't deserve to croak that day, but we gotta look at our government and see that it's just gonna happen again as long as we keep bombing brown people. And wasn't it kinda funny to see all those fatass stock brokers running away from enormous walls of smoke? Get over it America!! As long as you keep driving those fucking SUVs and paying your taxes, more innocents will die, here and abroad.

  • May 29, 2002, 12:12 p.m. CST

    Completely Disturbing! THANKS HBO for giving me NIGHTMARES!

    by MentallyMariah

    I watched this last night and cannot get the images out of my head again....I wish I hadn't watched it but then again I am glad I did...Totally fucking disturbing and well hard to shake...THOSE IMAGES of the bodies falling...It's going to be awhile before I get a good nights sleep...Thanks HBO!

  • May 29, 2002, 7:49 p.m. CST

    Wouldn't it be funny to Looptid's entire family running

    by NFLRefugee

    I think it would.

  • May 29, 2002, 11:19 p.m. CST

    we should mind our business

    by slkboxrman

    i live in NYC and had a birds eye view of the tragedies and experienced high stress and anxiety, there isnt a single day that goes by that i dont get spooked by a low flying plane and i probably always will...but i have to agre with all those sayin we should mind our business in the world... we stick our holier than thou noses into things that dont concern us...we tell people that have been a certain way for thousands of years that they are barbarians and we do everything right.. lets stop trying to make the world more like us and let it be the way it wants to be...if saddam wants to kill his own people..let him... f*ck em. i dont care,,,they aint my people..besides that whole thing was all about the oil...if the kuwaiti people didnt have a giant oil supply we woulda ignored the whole thing...its the truth..our treatment of the whole saddam thing is what pissed off bin laden in the first place.. i was lucky..no one i know personally died 9/11 but i know lots of personal friends that lost friends that day...the US should mind its business before we all lose someone we care about

  • May 30, 2002, 1:27 a.m. CST

    It's just not that simple

    by Salvador_Limones

    The U.S. has always had an active ECONOMIC interest in butting it's head into the nether regions of the world. It's not about humanitarian concerns nor has it ever been. You folks saying that the U.S. should stop trying to tame all the world barbarians are pretty damn naive. We've never cared unless money was involved, and in fact we'd gladly jump into bed with those barbarians if money was involved. We have gladly armed barbarians to the teeth and kept them in power so long as they were friendly to our economic interests. The Cold War wasn't fought because communism is bad, even if it is. It was fought because the Soviet Union was competing with us for domination of the world resources. The CIA assembled, armed and trained Islamic extremists (including one Mr. Osama Bin Laden) to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Don't try and pretend it was because we gave a fuck about anyone in Afghanistan. And please don't try and pretend that didn't directly come back and bite us in the ass. It may seem all fine and well to pretend that U.S. policy has been 100% altruistic, but if we don't look closely at our foreign policy fuck ups and do some serious self-examination, we're doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

  • May 30, 2002, 8:56 a.m. CST

    Crazy

    by dehayd

    It's all well and good to acknowledge the role that the U.S. had in setting up the Taliban, etc.; but you have to also acknowledge that even if U.S. policy completely did a 180, and we pulled out of Saudi and Afghanistan, hung Israel out to dry and gave every Muslim in the world $1,000 and a free barrel of hummus, the terrorists would still be after us. We'll never be completely safe as long as crazed religious fanatics exist. The real axis of evil? "Christianity, Judaism and Islam" -- Christopher Hitchens. Monotheism sucks.

  • May 30, 2002, 1:27 p.m. CST

    World Trade Center Memoriam

    by hootiepo

    I hope this helps bring peace to many hearts. I grieve for the families who's loss was so tragic and unnecessary. I empathise with the men who have been working there all these months, for they too grieve! I grieve for our Nation, when during times of peace, we were struck by cowards, who went after Innocent civilians, and The people at the Pentagon. It is not only evil, but they do these deeds in the name of Allah. They are a twisted and perverted people. God gives, and God takes away! He does not need evil people to do his work for Him! They are not his children, for they have chosen the opposite path, and in time, God's time, they will suffer forever for what they have done here, and continue to do around the world! You can not die in hell!

  • May 30, 2002, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Never ceases to amaze

    by Darth Brooks

    Reading all the middle-school drivel on this talkback hammers home the point that so many American kids don't understand abolitionist Wendell Phillip's claim that "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." If you don't think we as a nation must protect our freedom from backward nations (yes, backward nations - women are treated as less-than-cattle and children are bomb transports)who would try and destroy that freedom, you don't really deserve the freedom you have. This conflict is a war between the 21st Century and the 13th Century. Sure, blame envy, blame the politics of nations who haven't figured out democracy yet - - but what it boils down to is that we have invented the greatest nation ever to exist on the planet, and as such, we've become a target. This targeting will not be resolved until other nations pull themselves up to our level of free enterprise, freedom of association, acceptance of opposing political parties, and religious tolerance. That change in mindset won't happen for quite some time, but it's always possible. If Russia can become a part of NATO, anything's possible.

  • May 30, 2002, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Cisco Bunny, you're a dumb fuck...

    by James Crackcorn

    I can't tell which is lower, your intelligence or moral fiber. Do me a favor, jump on the next bus to our little socialist neighbors in Cuba and cuddle up big daddy fuck Castro and tell all your little tall tales of the bad old capitalists up here. You fucking loser.

  • May 31, 2002, 11:38 a.m. CST

    STOP THE BLAME GAME

    by GREATGAT

  • May 31, 2002, 11:44 a.m. CST

    by GREATGAT

    I AM SO SICK OF PEOPLE BLAMING EVERYONE FOR THIS TRAGEDY EXCEPT THE SICK F**KS WHO PERPETRATED IT. IT WAS THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION, IT WAS THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.........WAKE UP IT WAS THE TERRORISTS, ONLY THEY CAN BE BLAMED.KILL THEM ALL.