Cool News
CNN runs story on STAR WARS EPISODE 3 and it has spoilers that... well we should all kinda know...
Hey folks, Harry here. CNN has run a piece that details about all Lucas wants to have coming out about the next chapter in the Star Wars Saga. Of Course he hasn't released the title, and just about everything there we know already because it just friggin makes sense in connecting A to C, but if ya need it laid out for ya, there it is. If you want to know what the shot that Lucas has shot for Episode 3 is, scan down to the bottom of this page, but if you want no spoilers at all about the upcoming EPISODE 3, don't click to CNN and don't scan to the bottom of the page and don't read the talk back for this page. Click your BACK button and I would recommend not reading any stories anywhere regarding STAR WARS.
incase you haven't seen Cnn has some stuff on EPIII.. intresting..
CLICK HERE TO READ CNN'S REPORT!
GravYThe shot that Lucas shot was in Tunisia at Luke's old residence. The scene was Obi Wan handing young Luke over to Owen Lars for protection and safe-keeping.
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NO TEXT HONKEYS!
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People talk too much at movies. But otherwise, just as solid as the first time. One hopes that Lucas will clean up some of the minor messes in the script for Ep3. Other than that, I think I'm about Star Wars'ed out for at least a week, which is rare for me.
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Weren't we told that no major actors were present during that shot. Oh well, obviously just another cover up.
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a few things i thought of here ... first off, we don't know that Amidala dies in EP3, she may survive and live to a ripe old ages. Also there is the matter of Sidious/Palpatine and how come the jedi can't sense the dark side of the firce from him, leading someone to write that maybe one of the sidous/palpatine characters is a clone. Obi wan said to luke in EP4 that Vader killed his father, so isn't it a possibility that maybe the empire manage to clone Anakin and that this clone is Vader? that way Anakin is killed by vader but doesn't ultimately succumb t the dark side, and also it sets up the revelation in Ep5 that darth is lukes "father" but maybe not really. Could be that we are not sure at the end of Ep3 which character (anakin or vader) is killed? or maybe vader doesn't realise he is the clone?
Other issues include the arrival of han solo, maybe han's father is in episode 3 s so far he is the only character we haven't seen a relation or younger version of in the new films.
And lastly, i fully expect the millenium falcon to make an appearance in episode 3, and maybe chewie as well. so still loads to look forward too! i think if this was just a join the dots exercie then lucas would not have bothered, and i expect that ep3 wil be the best of the three prequels thus far, bound to be at least one major tiwst in it! -
... I went to see Lord of the Rings again, and this woman was explaining who was "good", who was "bad", and reading out loud all of the subtitles on the screen. After all the "shushes" in the theatre, she STILL didn't get the message. *SIGH*
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How can you possibly argue that Vader could be anything but Luke's father? Your Clone theory is utter crap, and would take away from the entire meaning of Vader being redeemed by his son. Maybe I'm taking this a little too hard or whatever, but please...
Anyway, about Padme, in Return of the Jedi Leia says that she remembers her mother a little bit, and that she died when Leia was "very young". She says that her mother was very beautiful, but sad, so Padme better not die in Ep 3. It's bad enough the Clone troopers in ep2 are way, way more kick ass than ep 4,5&6, and that Uncle Owen had no memory of having a protocol droid serving on his homestead when he bought 3PO. Lucas doesn't need any more incongruities in his story. -
May 24, 2002 7:41:25 AM CDT
Don't you naysayers realize? Episode 1 and Episode 2 are jus
by fanbot#1
Okay, so TPM and AOTC were disappointing, but that's because they are just INTRODUCING US to the characters and the situation. A lot of people are criticising AOTC for not being a movie in its own right - but it's NOT MEANT TO BE! It's just setting up the plot and the characters for the real story that is coming. Episode III on the other hand - that's when Lucas will show us the ol' Star Wars magic! Wait and see! We just gotta be patient, folks, and follow George's lead...
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Can't believe you are all so excited about the 'Return to form' of Star Wars... It's sad that you think AOTC is great when all it really did was live up to LOWERED expectations...
Don't care about EpIII anymore, basically know what's going to happen, know it's gonna be a shit script, cool effects, no emotion, cool effects, shit script, more effects... Wow!
I secretly pinned my hopes on AOTC's being the kickass tragic romance with revenge action masterpiece it should have been, alas I have lost any real interest in Lucas and his bi-trilogy train wreck.
Oh, and spoiler free for Ep III just won't happen, enough people just want to fuck it up for everyone else no one will end up going in spolier free...
Is this a Star Wars bitch/gripe/hate talk back??? Oh well, seems all of them are these days:)
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Hey friend with all due respect. Starwars was an original skin put on the well worn concept of a western. I also must question your judgement when you call Karate Kid III a good movie, but all in all I agree with you on the overall.
I am not a fanboy or anything, but one has to point out that the reason that everyone loves Empire (and why it has some emotional gravitas) is cause Lucas didn't direct it. Lucas don't work well with actors.
Well there's my 2 cents your milage may vary! -
Jesus guy relax, why are you getting so up-tight?
sorry for expressing my opinion and throwing a few ideas out there.
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Call me dim, but what's the 5th Element scene that everyone keeps going on about Lucas nicking?
it's a long time since I've watched the 5th element and I've forgotten.
Who'd care to remind me, and feel superior while they're at it? -
Isn't seeing the first three episodes going to spoil the suprises of the original trilogy for people who haven't seen them? D'OH!
By the way, the arena battle sucked, Sam Jackson was a complete girl (watch hmi run like a nancy), the clone war was The Mummy Returns on steroids and Yoda kicked ass and made the film for me. Shame about the Matrix pose tho'. -
Jettster Dexter = Dexter Fletcher? You english people and fans of Lock Stock will know what I'm saying. Plus the Anakin masturbation scene and Amidala's very sudden recovery were funnnnnyyyyyy!
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BigLaw... There is a chase scene in the 5th Element involving floating vehicals flying around at great speed and greater heights... the main difference between the two films are the 5th Element was actually entertaining. It had the uber cool Bruce Willis in it, not some prat. It had Milla Jovavich in it who Portman can't even compete against, and well it was actually made 5 years before AOTC's. Oh and Luc Besson can direct properly AND tell a story all in one, with emotion (Fun included)
Oh and the actual chase scene looked better in 5th Element too. -
May 24, 2002 8:11:19 AM CDT
"a lame attempt to make a film by stitching together the best sc
by llghtst0rmer
You know, dude, if you hadn't included the likes of "The Fifth Element," "The Bodyguard," "Gladiator," and "The Karate Kid Part III" as "superior movies," I might have given your point some credit. Alas, you did, so I didn't. If you don't mind, I think it's worthwhile to point out to you the *possibility* that YOU made the correlation to these other eight movies (whether reasonably so or otherwise,) and are projecting this supposed plagiarism on Lucas and Ep. II. I mean, even if a normal person could watch AotC and agree that there are similar concepts or even whole scenes that are remeniscent of other movies, I doubt they'd go so far as to believe Lucas cut-and-pasted them into his script. I mean, if George Lucas even SAW Karate Kid 3, do you honestly think he said to himself, "Oh, I've gotta put THAT in a Star Wars movie"? Do you really think the guy who gave us Yoda and Darth Vader and Indiana Jones needed to steal from a Ralph Macchio flick from 13 years ago? It all seems pretty random if you ask me. However, having said that, it's also kind of funny how you claimed Lucas introduced innovative concepts in the original trilogy that were kiped by other movies afterwards... when the truth is that there were relatively few elements in the series that were entirely dreamt up by Lucas. He has always admitted he borrowed heavily from Joseph Campbell and Tolkien's writings, among other things. Hell... the whole saga was born from the fact that he wanted to remake Flash Gordon as a feature film, but the deal fell through. When he couldn't make that project, he made his own version. I realize it sounds like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth (or my ass, take your pick,) so I'll clarify what I'm saying: It's true (and obvious) that George, like all science fiction writers, borrows liberally from s/f and fantasy films and books for his own writing. (You think he invented the idea of a laser sword??) However, I DOUBT his habit for the reappropriation of ideas is as lame as you suggest; that he merely steals from other films and recreates them so simplistically in the Star Wars movies. I personally give the guy credit for being able to fashion familiar scenarios (the lions vs. the christians, for example) into exciting, suspenseful sequences in his own films. Hell, that's all filmmakers really do, when it comes down to it... take stories and concepts that we have seen before, and find new and exciting ways to present them. You don't believe me? Give me any movie in the world and I'll give you other films or stories that either contributed to it or have copied from it. (Provided I know the plot of the movie, of course.)
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...when he made "Leon." After that... niente. Nada. Zilch. Seriously... are you people trying to tell me The Fifth Element was a good movie??? Talk about hackneyed and overdone! I'll take Clones any day of the week and twice on Tuesday compared to that vapid runway model of a movie.
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Let's just throw our hands in the air and just admit that AOTC was just plain crap. But it was FUN crap. But for the major SW fans, that Lucas hasn't noticed ANY incongruities in his story is damn near unbelievable. How can they not notice the unintentionally funny bits? Are they completely BLIND? This is what happens when you hole people up in a cabin in the middle of no-where! You get hallucinogenic nonsense that seemed like a good idea at the time! When you're working hard at something, sometimes it's best to either stand back and review your position or show it round for advice. That Doug Chiang, Lucas and co., fantastic artists that they are, didn't realise is that you CAN'T DO IT ON YOUR OWN. Why do you think Empire is so damn good? Because a lot of talented people were working on it and I bet a lot of opinions were floating around about script, acting etc. Episode 3 will probably end up being marginally better than the others, hopefully less referential to other movies and also HOPEFULLY introduce that female Sith they have in the art book. She would kick ass like crazy! Only problem is, I'm seeing one too many lightsaber battles coming up. Yawn. Anyone getting bored yet? As for Karate Kid III - waddafyuck? I'll fwip you!
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And no, I'm not referring to the film. I'm referring to the whingers.
I watched AOTC strung out on marijuana and let me tell you, it kicked arse. Yes, it was too complicated to follow by far. But it was really nice, all these people knowing each other.
I liked TPM as well. And I'm sick to death of all these FOTR folks moaning that Lucas doesn't have a script. FOR FUCKS SAKE....All Lord of the Rings is is (can you write two is's straight after each other like that?): walk, get chased, rest, walk, get chased, rest, walk, get chased, rest, walk, get chased, rest.....blah blah blah.
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If I was locked in a room and had to choose, at gunpoint, from the two films I'd go for the 5th Element, seen AOTC's once and am already done with it, yeah I got allo there is to get from it... See I tend to enjoy films that make me feel... Clones left me feeling like I'd just paid for $1000 for a hooker and had to fake MY orgasam just to end it as quickly as possible... That's just not the way I want to feel when I walk out of a movie... The 5th Element may not be the coolest, greatest film ever but at least it gave me the sensation of a cinematic orgasam.
Sorry for the sexual reference but AOTC is the equivilant of a permenant soft on... Peace. -
Was first preformed by Buster Crabbe in the Flash Gordan films made in the '30's. It looked ridiculous back then and I'm afraid that 60+ years and all the advances in special effects still can't make this stunt any more believeable. I guess the fakiness was meant to be an "homage".
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Mace Windu being nobbled by a now genetically engineered Bobba Fett would be fitting, however much Samuel L wants to be killed by Vader. Would explain Vaders "No disintigrations" remark in Empire!
After Anakin loses his duel with Obi Wan, it is essential at the very end that as well as seeing Obi Wan hand over Luke, we must see Anakin don the armour of Darth Vader and bow before the triumphant Emperor.
I wonder whether it will be the revelation that the Emperor set up the death of his mother that will turn Anakin?
He would then attempt to kill the Emperor, (like Luke in Jedi) but would be met by Dooku, whom he would defeat using the power of the Dark Side that has been unleashed by this revelation.
Of course, unlike Luke in Jedi
he would then acknowledge the Emperor as his master and take Dookus place at his side.
And please...Darth Sidious/The Emperor is not a clone of Palpatine or vice versa. Bullshit. They are one and the same. Always has been, always will be. If you start going down that road, then you end up saying Vader didnt kill the Emporer in Jedi he is immortal. The Jedi can't detect Palpatine as as Windu reveals, their perception of the Force has diminished and as Yoda states "The Dark Side covers everything". -
I hope Mark Hamill is in this, they are really going to have to use a lot of "CGI" to make him look like a baby...at least there will be better acting though
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A bad blowjob by an extremely attractive hooker. Sure she looks great, but you expected more and once you've spent your money, it's over.
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May 24, 2002 8:42:33 AM CDT
Anyone who says that The Fifth Element is better than AOTC...
by hobbitastic
needs their geek status revoked. Now, I dug The Fifth Element but if you're going to say that AOTC stole the chase scene from it... well, there are these movies that came out before The Fifth Element (some of you may not remember a time before Buffy the Vampire Slayer premiered, I understand) that were called STAR WARS, THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, and RETURN OF THE JEDI. Ever hear of them? They had chase sequences in them too. Chase sequences that clearly inspired the one in The Fifth Element. I'm not joking. Check them out for yourself. Not so much in EMPIRE but the other 2... definitely. In any case, the chase in AOTC rocked the shit out of the one in The Fifth Element. WHOO-HOO! I WIN! 1 TO NOTHIN'!! NEXT SONG! NEXT SONG! NEXT!!!!!
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Was the way an otherwise interesting science-fiction-fantasy film was ruined by the presence of an annoying ,highpitched voiced comedy relief character.
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Yeah I remember the OT, pretty cool chase scenes in them too, but just standard chases, like car chases with spaceships, wow... 5th Element's chase scene was something else completely, for the time, no wonder Georgy boy decided he needed to rip it off, after all he had NOTHING to do with it, even his mighty ILM didn't even touch it, Digital Domain all the way baby!
Oh and all these cool ideas for Ep III, lets cut out the creativity people, Lucas is no doubt scouring these talk backs for any dregs of coolness to rip off into ep III... Umm, wonder if by the time it comes out there will be ANYTHING in it that hasn't already been bought up in here.... Doubt it... George here is my idea... Fucking give the basic story outline to a scriptwriter to WRITE it, hire a Director to DIRECT it, and you, LUCAS, just fuck off and watch some telly or something and come back when it's all done. -
Since the beginning of filmed science fiction the image of a massive city with flying cars has been with us. It's one of the first shots in Fritz Lang's Metropolis. It's so obvious that Corscant is Lucas's version of that image. Luc Besson and George Lucas have both arrived at similar scenes by simply saying to themselves: What would a car chase look like in that classic cityscape situation? There's no stealing, there's no plaigarism. If anything the 5th Element was borrowing more from Heavy Metal than AOTC from 5th Element, but I don't even think that was the case. I think it's the case of intelligent directors arriving at similar places because they are working in the same genre. People who are familiar with the genre recognize these recurring ideas in Sci-Fi all the time. For example anyone who is at all familiar with sci-fi/fantasy recognized the execution arena as an homage to Ray Harryhausen. (not at all *anything* to do with Gladiator.) The critics mention Gladiator in just about every review of AOTC simply because critics are cloned media constructs that can't remember past two Oscar-casts ago, and have the creativity of my right shoe. It's funny to see fandom echo these simplistic and ridiculous comparisons and somehow think they are *informed* 'cause they agree with some dolt at Entertainment Weekly who couldn't in a million years appreciate Jason and the Argonauts, Clash of the Titans, or any other Ray Harryhuasen masterpiece... much less an homage to them. Anyone who says Lucas "lifted" anything from Gladitor is ignorant of the entire genre of Science Fiction, and should probably stick to Starship Troopers and Wing Commander flicks and stop trying to have an opinion about real Sci-Fi.
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...of the city-planet that housed the throne of the empire in the FOUNDATION series. since when is the 5th element considered the genesis of sci-fi chase scenes?
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what TARDIS said.
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May 24, 2002 9:13:14 AM CDT
Yeah, we are sheep, Film studios are pigs, Lucas is a dog
by zombiepresley
Yeah I agree, we 'informed' people are only capable of having an opinion about a film after the critics tell us what we should be thinking... Fuck you think maybe we people who don't like the AOTC don't like it because we thought is was shit?
And yeah, critcis compare it to Gladiator/5th element etc, because that is what it is comparable too, those films are comparable to something else and as Harry once wrote LONG ago, it can all be traced back to some cave painting somewhere... BUT... It that what we wanted from a star Wars movie??? Or did we want something a little more original than something we just was a mere few years ago???
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Yeah, that's a good point way up there about Episode 2. Actually, it's true for this entire trilogy- it doesn't have to be good, and the individual movies don't have to work as narratives... because all it's doing is serving as a set-up for the original 3 movies! It's just a 3-movie preface. Now I can skip the third one, and just watch episodes 4-6, the ACTUAL story!
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Why all this bickering about the fifth element. The fifth element was inspired by the artwork of moebius and by comics from a french auteur called Mezieres.
Lucas arts department was most likely also inspired by them. Since the Senate looks a lot like Point zero in Mezieres Valerian et Laureline. And the Coruscant sequence is obviously inspired by "les cercles du pouvoir" which in turn provided most of the ideas for the fifth elements city scenes. -
Simply because too many people have too many opinions about what is good sci fi... I've always thought it is about emotion and feel... How it made you feel, but everyone will never feel the same about a film so there will never be a great unifying film for geeks everywhere to collectively rejoice over...
BTW: 5th element was never said to be the ultimate chase scene, it's just AOTC is very similar to it...
Where's the love baby???
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Man, all this talk of AOTC just makes me want to go out and rent Fifth Element (and Starship Troopers). Is T5E a work of art? Nah, but it's way more fun than Clones, flaws and all (guess what? corny "bad" dialogue can work!).
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New Wave Hookers... Any Rocco Sifreddi film... Deep Throat (RIP Linda L.) Assclowns... Service Animals 1-8... Some Jenna stuff for a touch of class... Mix in some more Extreme Associates hardcore, a dash of Seaseme Street humour to keep the kids happy, name all the Jedi acording to their 'porn star' names... Dress all the chicks in latex, a sprinkle of BDSM... Make some CGI creature that look like giant reproductive organs and you'll be on a winner George, trust me... Anyone wanna buy a dozen used Ab-rollers????
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Seriously, Anakin is a cool name. But Ani? That's so friggin' gay. BTW, I love the original trilogy, but I've seen better acting in porn than in these new movies. Better writing too.
And for people who say that Eps I and II are "laying the foundation" for Ep III to kick ass, I ask you: how much friggin' foundation do you need to lay? I gotta wade through two crappy movies to get to a good one? -
If you expected an average film... anyone wanting something more was left wanting more... Ever had that rush of being thrilled by a film... Well it ever happened to me, so by God you people are going to here about it... Maybe George will eventually hear about it too... Wonder if all you "Yes it was good George" people actually know you are saying to him, yeah go ahead, make another just like it, when you should be saying, lift your fucking game George and kick our asses like you should have done twice now you prick!
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Who cares? Wait, thats a silly question. The answer of course are all those morons who actually think AOTC is the equivilant of ESB. I,m sorry but if Lucas doesen't care about making quality films then why should I care about seeing them. AOTC was his last chance to redeem himself in this SW fans eyes and he totally blew it. He can laugh all the way to the bank with some one elses cash from now on.
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Fuck all you haters in your stupid asses. The things some of you guys are posting is beyond rdiculous. The 5th Element? The fuckin' 5th Element???? What the fuck is so special about it? Since when is this flick the epitome of sci-fi cool? Yeah, it's pretty good and all but you seriously cannot compare it with AOTC, which is an epic film on a grander scale. Even if you didn't like AOTC don't show your ignorance by saying Lucas stole scenes from other movies. ZombiePresley, you can take your chin off Digital Domain's nutsac any minute now. ILM rules the roost and you know it. DD does do some good work but who did Cameron turn to to create his T-1000? Who created a realistic looking T-Rex that blew our minds? Who did the awesome podrace? Yeah, you know the answer. And for you dumb-asses who want Lucas to hand off the film to another director, my response to that is...BWAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!! This is Luca's baby and he ain't letting anyone helm it but himself. If this bothers you so much, don't see the fuckin' film. Leave SW to those of us who love and enjoy it. I'm glad he's pissing off you fanboys so much. Kevin Smith nailed you all so perfectly in JAY AND SILENT BOB STRIKE BACK. I knew the majority of you who hated TPM would end up seeing AOTC, just so you have something to bitch about. Like I said, if you didn't like the film, that's fine. But don't resort to ridiculous accusations of Lucas "stealing scenes" just to try and prove your point, and especially don't resort to saying he stole them from much inferior films. On a final note...AOTC rocks the fuckin' bells!!!! As always, my opinion is the truth.
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Exactly... Felt nothing, why pay for more of that.... -
All right I am not going to comment on whether the movie is good is bad(I personally feel it is my favorite Star Wars movie..sue me)..anyway I do have some speculation on what happens to Padme and the the twins. I think Padme ends up having a traumatic childbirth..she survives..but I would think we find out she might have done some internal damage(something degenerating...like a collapsed uterus..I mean Portman is a small little thing...you think she has the frame to give birth to two children)...and ultimatly she will inevtiable sucumme, in time, to the damage that happened during childbirth. It would explain why Leia remembers her in Jedi...and why she died between Episode 3 and A New Hope(Granted not very Star Warsy..but ya know what I think Episode 3 is going to change our perspective of what these films are all about anyway). Take it for what it is worth. Btw, I've seen the movie six times and counting...plan to go again this weekend.
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Allright I got to add something to Harry's insight(about Lucas plagerising in these movies compared to the originals)....I am going to shoot down his comments in one quick sentence......here goes....Chewbecca and the "Tarzan" yell in Return of the Jedi...thank you..and have a pleasant evenining.
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ILM should make a STAR WARS themed movie, one thats all just special effects and cool sound. and James Cameron should direct the last one.
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Was done by ILM, yes, simply because DD was yet to come into existance, fuckstick!
Ever since then JC has used DD, probably because he in no way wants to be asocciated with Lucas by any means/stretch/buisness at all, and wisely so.
Oh you want me to stop sucking DD nutsac, why? you want a go??? Yeah go ahead, I'm sure your Gag reflex has been hollowed out to nothing by the ILM crew... BTW: how does George like his rimjobs? I'm sure you'd know.
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All those that hate Star Wars - FUCK OFF!. I hate people that can't see a good film when it is right in front of them. As for those that say the plot is complicated... go back to kindergarten school and learn to focus for more than two seconds. The story is complex but not complicated. READ HARRY'S REVIEW, HE EXPLAINS EVERYTHING for the stupid people. TPM was ok - AOTC ROCKS BIG TIME - LOTR was really good too as was SPIDER-MAN. I love film, you obviously don't. Just to the minority.
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May 24, 2002 10:05:53 AM CDT
Her uterus??? Like to see George work that into the script and s
by zombiepresley
but I would think we find out she might have done some internal damage(something degenerating...like a collapsed uterus....
Yeah maybe she broke her uterus when she landed reproductive system first on the back of that stupid CGI creature during the areana battle and she just never healed... What a shame... Anikien applies some home made healing Balm, brewed himself of course... next thing you know, Twins... just like the way anikien was 'concieved'.. A miracle... Fuck yeah...
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why would you be pissed so bad that you wanna kill everyone that's been good to you since age 8? if they decide it's in their interest to kill the thing you love. so... the Jedi sacrifice Padme for 'the greater good' only to force the dark crossing of mr. Skywalker Sr. there you go!
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wow Zombie...cynical aren't we...my recommendation is..stay away from the next one(it's not worth the torment this movie is putting you through)..I understand you didn't like it and that is fine...however most people do(whether you care to admit or not)...sadly you are in the minority as far as the movie going public(hey man..what goes around comes around..I spent three years defending tpm...I don't have to with this movie). Um, as far as getting the whole bit about the uterus and still get a pg rating...have you ever seen the Ridley Scott film "Legend"...extremely graphic movie..yet that has a pg rating...what the hell is the big deal about mentioning the human reproductive system anyway...wait a sec...you do know that the other sex are used to give birth to children..don't you? I hope you aren't twelve :)..if that is the case just wait until you have first sexual experiece! It's alot of fun..trust me.
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If you think about this logically, certain things must fall into place and other things (as much as we would love to see them) can never happen. If you look at the series as 6 chapters of a book or 6 chapters in a mini-series you should be able to fill in the blanks in regards to Episode 3: The Fall of the Republic.
1) We should not see Anakin don the Vader armor. If we do then it totally negates the surprise in Empire of us learning that he is Luke's father just has Luke does. We may well know that Anakin is his father, but for shock value in that chapter we must never connect Anakin and Vader until Episode 5.
2)Bail Organa from Alderaan must play a more imortant role in Episode 3. It must be established that he and Amidala become close enough that she and Leia live out their lives on Alderaan thus giving Leia her last name.
3) Anakin may never see his children born. This way he never knows about either of the twins although he may know of the pregnancy. Unless Amidala realizes she is pregnant in one of the last scenes and we do a flash forward, she may very well be pregnant during all of Episode 3. We must also never know of Leia's existence. If we know there are twins born then this also ruins the revelation that there are two Skywalkers in ROTJ.
There are more things that will fall into place as I process the episodes as one big story arc(like how did Ani get so tall as to reach the 6'+ size of Vader and if "Queen" is an elected title on Naboo and Amidala is a Senator, how does Leia get to call herself "Princess"?) but a lot of the fans on this site are looking at the series in reverse. They are looking at it as fans of the original trilogy and what they want to see happen to lead up to them. But coming from a story point of view you have to think like a person who has never seen 4-6 and wants those shocks and surprises to flow out of the story organically. -
I don't hate AOTC, I just think it's not very good... It's not hate I have towards the film, ust apathy... If you like it great, wish I was sailing on that ship with you... but for me the whole Star Wars ship is sunk...
Oh and the reproductive system is cool... Everyone should have one! -
Your Naboo/Dagobah idea ain't half bad. I never thought they should explain the tree in ESB, it's just symbolism.But the idea of Obi-Wan hiding on Tatooine and Yoda on destroyed and desolate Naboo...yeah! Gungans gone, Amidala's people wiped out, all that's left is fog and swamp. By the way, one thing that's really missing from RotJ is Coruscant. Okay, they had it in Special Edition, but the palnet has now been so dominant as a backdrop of both ep. I and II, that it should have been featurd in the original trilogy too. Well, Lucas invents his masterplan as he goes along...I think it would have been great if he had placed the senate and Jedi Temple on Alderaan. The shock of it's destruction in ep.IV would have more impact. Well, I guess they're saving the Alderaan for ep. III. what with Bail Organa and Leia etc. Flying R2 vs. groundbound one: perfect example of how the galaxy is in ruins by the time Empire has had it's way with it. No spare parts, you know ;)
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May 24, 2002 10:24:28 AM CDT
Well...I don't care what anyone thinks about me, but I'l
by sod off baldric
I thought Attack of the Clones was a fun, enjoyable film. If you didn't like it, hey that's fine...people's tastes differ. Just please don't refer to those that did like it (myself included) as an idiot, moron, lame-ass, etc. Those are hurtful terms, and if you continue to use them I will be forced to pound you.
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yeah I've thought about it in those terms..writing for the star wars virigin in mind...however it doesn't work because we would already be able to piece everything together in episode 4..the conversation between ben and vader.."Last time I was but the learner..now I am the master"...an intelligent person would pick up on that right away. I think the surprises will be gone...remember in empire strikes back how Yoda didn't come out and say he was Yoda..well we know in episode 1-3 who Yoda is..so that surprise is nullified. However, what Lucas will replace with surprises..will be emotional resonance..and perspective..which I feel is what he set out to do with these pictures anyway. Granted, I would love for Lucas to be clever and try to write for a virign...like the audience thinks Anikian dies..but all of a sudden Vader shows up out of nowwhere..but it just doesn't work..besides it would really piss off alot of fans who want to see the reconstruction of Anikan(ala Luke in the Banta tank in Empire). Curious, what do you think about my comments of Padme and the twins?
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Zombie I don't hate ya..because you didn't like a frikin movie..honeslty I can care less..movies are like music and books..everyone has their own personal tastes(I sound like a broken record). Everyone seemed to love Titanic(cringe)when that came out...I loathed it more than any piece of celluloid committed on film(I still feel Cameron has to pay penance for that one). Do I wish this experience could turn out better for ya...certainly I do..but don't think for a second that I am self-diluting myself in liking this movie..for me it is no different than any other star wars movie..if it sucked I would call Lucas's bluff...but it didn't(for me). I agree with a earlier poster(was it you?)that we will Never see a unifying sci-fi movie ever. The reason is that there is too much information, too many movies, too many opinions, too many different tastes. Audiences were alot easier to please back in the 70's and 80's(ALOT more). You can no longer make cinema for impression(and get away with it)...movies have to start becoming films of expression(for me..ATOC did both).
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Now hang on, Ewan never went to Tunisia for the AOTC shoot. Obi Wan was never on Tatooine. How the hell did they do the shot, unless it's from behind or added in later. Hmmmm... Anyway I'm willing to et that Dooku reveals to Anakin that he kidnapped his mother which unleashes the dark side and he fights and kills Dooku with Sidious watching on, taunting him like he does Luke. This leaves Anakin with no choice but to join the Emporer and he sets out to destroy the Jedi. Either that or Yoda kills Dooku in the cave on Degobah. And for the record, I deeply love AOTC, if you don't like it (yon zombie fella), I'm sorry, but let it go. People can make decisions by themselves. And I always thinks it's amusing when people claim George isn't really the director half the time, it's ILM. You never hear an accusation like that levelled at John Lasseter...
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I agree with snm1266. I'm afraid that Lucas will feel like he has to tie up all loose ends at the end of EpIII. The more he leaves ambiguous, the better. What he needs is a "Red Herring" Vader - like Christopher Lee's character. If you end EpIII with both Dooku and Anakin getting killed by Yoda and Kenobi respectively, it'd leave SOME ambiguity. Basically, Lucas has painted himself into a corner with this one. I just hope he doesn't answer ALL of the questions (can't we all just assume that padme dies of natural causes?).
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May 24, 2002 10:56:14 AM CDT
Can someone please explain to me why Boba Fett's dad is Aust
by drsteuss3
"Crikey, Boba! I'm gonna be clooooned!"
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Are you fucking kidding me??? I love the crap being said about AOTC by people who believe that The 5th Element is a superior sci-fi movie. WTF??? Now there's a movie that had some potential to be a classic. It starts out with a great idea, it looks cool, Willis is da' man, etc. And then half-way through the movie just collapses and then enter Chris Tucker to drive the final nail in the coffin. And people say Jar Jar is annoying?? At least his character served some purpose. And like some other people have already pointed out, there are NO completely original ideas in sci-fi/fantasy movies. Everything we see in modern sci-fi films has already been done in one way or another in older movies, comics or books. Amazing city scapes? "Metropolis" and "Blade Runner". Flying cars? "The Jetsons" and "Blade Runner". Robots/droids? "Metropolis" and "Forbidden Planet". The list goes on and on. Frankly, when I saw the look of Coruscant and the speeders, I though of "Blade Runner", not "5th Element". And when I saw the 5th Element's flying cab that Willis's character drives, I was immediately reminded of "Heavy Metal". The main character in one of those stories also drives a flying cab. That's much more of a rip-off than anything in Clones. I also didn't think of the overrated "Gladiator" when I saw the arena sequence in AOTC. I went back further to a combination of "Spartacus" and Harryhausen flicks. Everyone borrows. Lucas has admitted to his influences time and time again, but to suggest that he's ripping off such modern stuff is ludicrous. I'm sure Lucas is older than most of us on this talkback, therefore his points of refference would be different than ours. Westerns, Joseph Campbell, Kurosawa's samurai movies, old Flash Gordon serials, King Arthur stories, Frank Herbert's "Dune" and Tolkien are some of his influences. Not "5th Element" and "Gladiator". Get some perspective people.
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well Steely...I agree you to an extent...he can leave some ambiguity(yes the Padme thing does not need to be answered..she could have died from a "broken heart")but stuff like the reconstruction of Vader and showing Anikan turn are crucial to the movies themes. Lucas has already said he plans to show Anikian turn, that there will be a fight between obi-wan and Anikan, and that the twins will be born..I am certain we will see the the great purge of the Jedi, and the reconstruction of Anikan as Vader. But ya know what, I am along for the ride I will not self-impose what I feel should be done with these movies..Lucas can do whatever he wants with these films..and if he wants to be ambigious....so be it.
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The Thing, Alien (mobeius!), Aliens, BladeRunner, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, Akira, Metropolis, The 5th Element, Enter The Dragon, The Lion King (odd one out), Sinbad, Shakespeare In Love (love story!), Princess Mononoke (similar themes?), The Matrix, Amelie (better fantasy), The Terminator, Terminator 2, 2001, 2010, Elizabeth (queen kicks ass, metaphorically), La Vita E Bella (comedy AND tragedy), Jurrasic Park (it's sfx at the time sent shivers down my spine), Ghostbusters (great script!), Planet Of The Apes (old, not new), and probably a whole host of other I can think of. WHICH DOESN'T MEAN IT'S BAD, just not as good as the above! ;-)
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AOTC was pure entertainment. Visually breathtaking, exciting intricate story & well told in a completely entertaining (serial homage) fashion. It's a film - you dont like it? Tough Shit - Don't see episode 3.
The true fans of these consistently groundbraking movies couldn't give a rats ass (with the general concensus - and Box office - backing up the fact it rocked). The screening I went to had people walking out discussing this movie in an excited frenzy unlike any movie I've seen in a loooong time, while pledging to come again (yes, even more so than LOTR & Spiderman - which I also dug b.t.w).
Nothing worse than people who can't see a decent movie without realising it, who then go off to bitch about it in forums 'cos they consider it a threat to their own personal "favoirite" movie/trilogy. Damn Fuckwits, go line up up for the DVD ya pricks(as you "secretly" will anyway).
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Ok first off, the Fifth Element thing. Just because the concept of a flying car chase through a futuristic city and a guy jumping out of said flying car was already done in 1996 does not make the scene in AOTC a ripoff. The flying car was done in Blade Runner in 1982, Star Wars in 1977 and fucking Metropolis in 192--God knows what. So get the fuck over yourselves with the 5th Element shit. The Fifth Element ripped off more stuff from Star Wars than probably any movie in the last decade. Ok, now the dialogue. No, a 20 year old kid talking to a girl isn't going to talk like an English poet. If anything, the dialogue was too realistic. The plot...The same people deriding the plot of this film are fans of a movie about a dick in tights and homosexual midgets. If you think this film has no plot, you just don't get it, end of story. The surprise of "I am your father"...irrelevant. You can't preserve it. Not possible. Smarter people than you have tried to make it work and it simply doesn't. But what is that one surprise compared with the fall of the republic, the death of the jedi, and Anakin's turning? That's all much more powerful than "I am your father". Eh, that's enough for now. You people all suck. Go see LOTR again and jack off to a 3 hour midget chase scene. Star Wars is too much for you.
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I think he SHOULD show Anakin turn to the dark side and have the climactic showdown between him and Obi-Wan (that's what the entire prequel trilogy is building up to!). It's NOT necessary to show him get rebuilt. One can assume this happens between III and IV. I'm just saying, it'd be more interesting to assume that Anakin is dead at the end of III. Also, it's NOT necessary to show the twins being born and subsequently hidden. We only need to know that Padme is pregnant and that she, herself, is hidden. I doubt Lucas will do any of this since he now feels he has to pander to his audience that wants EVERYTHING explained...
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It's entirely possible that with Anakin and Padme "living a lie" and keeping their marriage a secret, that Anakin could know of her pregnancy but not know of the actual birth of his children. He will more than likely be off fighting a war, becoming the greatest starpilot in the galaxy and will only be able to correspond with Padme like most husbands do durring wartime. Perhapse he will know of the birth, but will start his path to the darkside, causing Obi Wan to lie to him about the children and possibly Padme's being alive at some point. Just thinking out loud. At any rate some f'ed up stuff has to happen to get Anakin to go from "i'm gonna stp people from dying" to got giving 2 shits about ANYONE. looking forward to it...
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May 24, 2002 11:28:22 AM CDT
'Scuse Me, I Wasn't Paying Attention. I Was Just Rereadi
by buzz maverik
Padwars being the guardians of the Jeddak...well, that is different that Padawans being students of the Jedi. And giant lions called banths are really different than giant rams called banthas, but....
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Good Christ people, you all gotta stop comparing AOTC to every other goddman sci-fi movie ever made...T5E, Metropolis, Blade Runner etc etc etc..come on and wake up.....this is freakin star wars for christ sakes....not some movie a production company threw out at the population hoping to make a quick buck.....the is GL's baby and he is gonna do whatever the hell he wants with it....it's not like he needs the money or anything...Yah ok, I admit some of the acting is bad.....and yes the love story in AOTC coulda been a helluva lot better....but over all Star Wars fans, REAL Star Wars and got what they wanted....to see the Clones Wars (even tho it is the beginning) and watch why Yoda is the master and we, as the fans, got just that......everyone seems to realize that Star Wars is much more then a movie(s)....it is about redemption and the return to lost innocence.....it isn't about acting and visual effects and what every other drooling yahoo thinks....this is about uncle George's vision and HIS storytelling...he has publicly stated that he full expects Episode III to not do nearly as well as the other in terms of money....storywise tho, it'll be that darkest scariest Star Wars movie ever made.....and I for one can't wait for it. AOTC is not quite as good as say, ESB, but....it is a helluva better then most of the other movies....it's too bad that everyone can't seem to accept it for what it is...the second of a 6 act play...
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Steely please don't pigeon hole me into an audience member that wants EVERYTHING explained(Lucas can do with whatever he wants)..sorry to take defense but I felt you implied something towards me. Anyway, I kinda feel that the whole point of these movies were to give perspective to the fans of the originals..and it's not like if he shows the reconstruction of Vader, and the birth of the twins(which he might very well do)that you can't enjoy the original films or be surprised to virgins..those are some hellva good movies in their own right.
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I'm sorry to go against the popular geek-fanboy view, but Clones was good fun. The only mistake I made was reading too many spoilers before seeing it. I don't recall the SW movies being about great acting. It's all about the story. the how's and why's, sprinkled with some great FX and action. Being that I've gotten used to the flaws in Menace, Clones turned out to be a fun ride. The audience howled both times I saw the movie, and also applauded when the movie was over. Obviously someone besides me liked the movie, too. Don't get me wrong, LOTR was a great movie. But was it fun? No way. Too serious for popcorn, IMO. Was Spidey so great? Well, not really, but I did enjoy it quite a bit. Stop comparing these movies to one another, they're all completely different. And I do recall plenty of gripes with the CGI in LOTR, so back off on Clones, the FX were better. What do you people want? Do you want to go back to stop motion claymation (I do know someone who would give a great big YES!)? Give it up, peeps. Just but your popcorn, sit back, and enjoy. Remember, it's only a movie.
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May 24, 2002 11:40:45 AM CDT
Will Anything Other Than "Revenge of the Sith" Do OR... The Grea
by jollydwarf
...is that more and more posters are using the correct AOTC as opposed to ATOC (which I guess is because that nonsensical acronym resembles the word "Attack"). Nice work! Gold stars for everyone! But I just can't wait to see if George goes with logic (stifling a laugh) and gives us the new acronym, ROTS. It follows the Title Pattern so far sustained by the two prequels and it's a title no one would make fun of. For a change. But maybe that's what he wants. Lots of "Daily Show" punchlines and spoofy fishwrap headlines. I'm not going to waste your time here (today, anyway)by making predictions about the last film, but I will say that it should be the best, because it will have the highest 'goose bump' factor for nostalgia, because even "Ani" thinks that it'll have to be PG-13 (or at least a PG that Lucas has to pay an even bigger sum to the MPAA for), and because we don't know about certain characters dying in the film or not. Namely Padme, Binks (c'mon you wanna see it..."Meesa noen goen on, Masta Kenobi. Meesa maken dose bitchens in den crowden feelen muy muy guilten-ridden."), Dooku, and the Jedi as a whole. I mean, how do you get rid of ten thousand Jedi in a two and a half hour film? What I want to see is the Jedi Temple getting blasted, with the kiddies inside!! That would take balls of adamantium! Plus, it would reflect Anakin's indiscriminate destruction at the Tusken camp. And would it be asking too much to get Ross Perot an extended cameo as a Separatist who uses a light pointer to demonstrate the breakdown of the Republic to Dooku, via a pie holochart? As Dooku fights nodding off, Ross explains "Now see? We need to talk about the issues here. People're gettin' all caught up in this clonin' business and the ethics of it all, but I say that the bottom line is why we got here in the first place! Now as you can see right here, I've got a profit-sharing scheme that will keep all parties happy and motivated...what I propose is...ackk...(gasp)...excuse me, Count, sudd'nly, I'm havin' a little trouble breathin'..." "The last thing this war needs is a third party," Dooku calmly states, unclenching his fist as Perot slumps to the floor.
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Someone mentioned that Coruscant had played such a big (and sometimes tedious) role in Ep I and II, that it doesn't make sense that they're hardly mentioned in Ep 4 - 6 (and the fact that it's tacked clumsily on the end of ROTJ doesn't count). Surely we must all be expecting the original trilogy to be re-re-re-re-re (whatever)re-released as Ultimate Editions when Ep 3 is done and dusted. Lucas has done it time and time again, and we'll all go along with it, as we normally do. When they are re- (etc) -released, they'll all have gratuitously inserted CGI, to tie all 6 episodes together properly, and give Lucas a get-out-of jail- free card for all the little things that dont add up, i.e - R2 suddenly flying, 3PO and R2 not being recognised by Vader, Kenobi or Owen Lars (a guy so backwards, he buys his own droids twice!), why clone troopers never miss and stormtroopers can't shoot for shit, why no-one recognises Obi-Wan-Kenobi when he changes his name, very cleverly, to Old Ben Kenobi (genius -pure fuckin' genius!!), why Luke is still called Skywalker-on Tatooine-when he's supposed to be hidden from Vader who used to like round the corner as a child, why Qui-Gon-Jinn didn't disappear when he died etc etc etc...
Don't get me wrong - I thoroughly enjoyed AOTC, and TPM to a less extent, but I won't be surprised when I find myself buying a new version of films I already own severall time, on many formats.
Lucas = the right to print money
Ps - Oh, and I love the idea of Naboo being Dagobah - I just think Yoda would run away a little further. At least all those Gungans would've (hopefully) died painful deaths!
Pps - Thanks George for cutting down on Jar Jar's screen time. Nice touch too, him starting The Clone Wars!! -
..that it'd be cool if Ep 3 finished with Vader in hot pursuit of the ship carrying Leia, R2 and the Death Star plans, leading us nicely in to the original trilogy.
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about this place. I remember Luke mentioning that in ESB about Dagobah. Does anyone else? Im sure it'll all be cleared up in Ep.III but by then i wonder if anyone will really care. I think the dramatic impact of the first 3 films have probably been damaged beyond all hope with the current PG schlock we now have before us. I envisioned the clone wars and anakins rise and fall to be on a far more epic and important precipice. The jedi order?...yawn...midichlorians? GL, youve strayed so far from what Star Wars once was. Its all show, little substance now. A forced romance, i suspect your little homage to Titanic, draw in the young teen beat crowd...excuse me while i vomit. Ok, we barely forgave you for the Ewoks, we held our noses during TPM, teary eyed and all and swallowed hard the bile of disappointment with boring politicking and trade wars...sheesh, that should all be backstory, filler, not the main course. There should be comraderie and a natural flow to the romance if any. I havent seen Ep.II yet but from all the reviews and TBs in here, my expectations have lowered even further than before.
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Can someone arrange a webcast of Fanboy Boxing? Can someone hook us up here? I really think that that's what is needed to stifle SOME of the sheer idiocy going on here. And it's getting worse, not better. Look, I thought the film was "an improvement", "pretty good", and "the middle of the five (but by an Ewok hair over "Jedi"). That's just me. BUT I'VE MOVED ON. Remember, this is the mother of all summers. This shit isn't even about movie fandom anymore. It's about losers creating their own Hell, futily trying to get the last word in and impose their opinions on those who are firmly entrenched on the other side of the fence. So, once again, if you're going to continue to waste space here, then arrange to actually meet in person, and "hammer out" the problem. Let someone film it on a webcam. Now THAT would not be a waste of bandwidth. Negotiations do seem to have failed, indeed.
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Jollydwarf..your funny I like you! Btw, I lift weights..I think many of these prepubesient teens would be terrifed of me :) Oh btw, to the previous poster..go see the movie..generate an opinion..good or bad...do not go by these talkbacks....these opinions do not give the conscienus of the general movie going public....go in with a open-mind and you will do fine(whether you like the film or not).
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Baldric you are absolutely correct in taking myself (and others) to task for using hurtful names and adjectives in describing those who like AOTC. Its juvenile and, well, downright moronic of those who engage in that sort of thing and I apologise to you and anyone else I may have offended. I guess my real anger should be directed at Lucas for producing such inferior garbage in the first place. While there were some things I liked about AOTC there was a great deal more I found to be just plain awful. I know there will be the ever present comments of "if you didn't like it then screw you" or "your not a true fan" or "why can't you recognize a good movie when you see it" (which makes me laugh to no end) but I really think people should challenge Lucas to make a better effort in producing these films. This film had soooo much potential to have been the best film in the whole saga but Lucas chose instead to concentrate more on visual effects that, say, directing his actors, pacing the film better, rewriting much of the dialog etc. etc. In short, I do not mean to attack any particular fan or their loyalty to this money making franchise. I just want to see a film that is truly worthy of the name "Star Wars" and all that it embodies.
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I agree with the idea of ignoring these talkbacks. Most of the people here are biased just for the sake of being biased. And anyone that would avoid a movie because they have a predisposed notion created by something they read by someone else is closed-minded, plain and simple. I can't wait to bring my niece and nephew to see Clones. I have a gut feeling they're not going to be giving any negative critiques about some silly love story.....
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Padme sat there and listened to anikin explain how he SLAUGHTERED AN ENTIRE VILLAGE (including women and children); then just kind of shrugged it off and decided to stay with him. What a fucking victim. Make up your own excuse... Maybe he used some Jedi love potion on her.****** AOTC had some of the worst dialogue and acting I've seen in a long time- but still, I enjoyed the last 45 minutes immensely. By the way, there has been almost no mention of Lord of the Rings, so I'll go ahead and say it... FotR was at least twice as good as AotC. Sorry.
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mabey Gorija..you are expecting something Lucas does not have the ability to do...to make Star Wars grow into something that elipcses the originals...this was never his intention...and I feel(you don't have too)that it is making an unfair expectation to match. These films have become untouchable american icons...and lead to an age of cinema that mass produces films laden with special effects...he can never..ever bring back that same feeling that old star wars movies brought out(it was the first of it's kind)..different time..different era..different people. However, he can tell one hellva story..and I think he has accomplished that very well. People expect alot more from these films that George Lucas was Never able to provide at any time. Keep in mind this is a fairytale...a serious fairytale...but a fairytale nonetheless. A part of me wants George Lucas to let someone to helm the next one..have someone else write the script..and have almost no role in the next one...and I would POSTIVELY LOVE for the movie to be COMPLETE AND UTTER CRAP(which it most likely would be)!! I never understand why people think Kirshner was a great director(the guy did Robocop 2 for godsakes)and explain to me why Empire is praised(because of the writing of Lawrence Kasdan)and yet Jedi was writtin with the same writing team and alot fans dislike it? The point I am trying to make is..that these movies...for better or worse..are in the mind of George Lucas...you can't just give and take praise...the reason why Empire and I will say Attack of the Clones are great movies is that they are the vision of George Lucas. Same goes with TPM and Jedi for being "inferior" pictures can be blamed on George Lucas! Give punishment where punishment is due..but be fair and give praise to the man when he does good!
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You know what dude, you're a faggot. This boycotting thing is silly. You went to see it. I know you did. Your just a fan boy like me and everyone else. You're just too sad and pathetic to admit it. That $6m over-estimation was felt by every release. Every film was over estimated by the same percentage, its just when you have openings that big, it seems more. Your boycott plans were a failure as zero people followed you. You were waiting in line like the rest of us, so just stop it. Oh, I'm sorry. I must be an idiot, I now see the reason behind your anger. Just because you have a small weiner, there is no point in taking your anger out on George Lucas. He makes films. You need a doctor. And, you definitely need to get laid.
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Hawq...for me it made perfect sense why Padme stayed with him..Anikan was in pain..emotional pain. She was shocked(her expression was worth a thousand words..Lucas is a visual director people)..but she accepted what he did..because she sensed the guilt in his voice and in his sobbing at the end of the scene. It's very true to life..if I went to Afganistan and I ended up getting shot under fire by woman and children...they are no longer bystandards..they are combatants...and would be treated as such. Do you think if I went back to my girlfriend, fiance, wife and admitted to her she would leave? No, you want to know why? because she can't judge the emotions that were going through my head as well as the circumstances at the time. God knows I would feel guilty if I had to do that..but war is survival and sometimes you do things out of character. People it wasn't like Anikian was not provoked..his mother was frikin tortured for a month! He took his rage out on a whim..if Ben Kenobi was there..he probably wouldn't have done it..he was young, rash, and stupid(such is everyone at that age). Man, I can't decide if some of you people are cynical, immature, or inexperienced about life in general. BTW, um whoever responded to me earlier..have a good time with your nephew and neice..I took my little cousin and we had a blast
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I was a child when Star Wars first came out and I loved it. These new films are aimed straight for the children as were the O.T. And they are still making a shitload of money. Now I know that if you adjust for inflation not as many people are going to see Star Wars these days, but now we have DVD, video games, and the internet. There has also been a wealth of Sci-Fi/special effects movies since the first Star Wars back in '77 and we've seen most of this before. Everyone complains about this new trilogy, but I maintain that if A NEW HOPE were released today with the exact same performances and story, everyone on this site would BITCH and MOAN about poor acting, bad story, bad writing and plot holes. We'd all be saying..."All they ever did was talk about the good old days of the republic and the jedi and how great they were, and Darth Vader and Obi-Wan were old and couldn't fight worth a damn. I think Lucas should have made a film about the Jedi instead of about this whiny farm boy on Tatooin!" I rest my case. Whiners.
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What about the possibility of Qui-Gon working for the Dark Side, and the whole ``midichlorian''
story was a cover-up for the cloning process. Remember, Qui-Gon was trained by Count Dooku, and his philosophies differed from that of the Jedi Council.
Taking a sample of young Anakin's
blood under the guise of research
when in fact obtaining a perfect sample of DNA for Sidious' purposes. -
Gone and forgotten? I like the theory above. When is his cmopleet dissapearence gonna be explained??? It can't be anything to do with the balance. Why would Yoda and co turn up at the end of Jedi? These films are starting to make less sense than the Gormenghast trilogy!
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That is the FIRST movie to have that futuristic city-scape. NOT Blade Runner, Fifth Element, Attack of the Clones or anything else. FRITZ LANG'S METROPOLIS. Ask Ridley Scott, ask Luc Besson, and yes, even ask George Lucas. AoTC was loads of FUN!!
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Maybe Owen Lars does recognize C-3PO in A New Hope. He seems rather adamant that Luke take the Droids to Anchorhead to have their memories erased. Would Owen Lars have let Luke know that he knew these droids. Lars wanted to keep as much of his relationship to Anakin and Luke's understanding of his father on the lowdown. He even went so far as to tell him that his father was just a pilot who never even fought in the clone wars and have ObiWan keep Anakin's lightsaber. So would Lars really turn to Luke and say,"C-3PO? I remember this droid. It used to live with us. Your father built it. But after the death of your grandmother, he took this droid Geonosis to go fight in the clone wars. Strange this droid is now back on Tatooine..." Maybe that's what Lar's interrogation of 3PO's abilities is all about. He's asking him all those questions because he can't believe that its the same droid, back after all these years and with no memory of him.
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The Fifth Element was AWFUL!! I hated that movie and thought about leaving the theater when I saw it. But I paid my money and decided to suffer through the rest. Element could have been really cool..but it was LAME!! Talk about bad dialogue and acting! Try to compare Ian McDirmaid to Zeus. ZEUS!! The Fifth Element was just plain DUMB!! If any movies have been ripped off...it's the Star Wars movies and GL's films. Raiders had many rip-offs, too!! AOTC and all the SW movies are enriched with beauty and compelling characters!! AND..and damn good story! I'm not going to lower myself to the SW haters and call them 'fuckheads" or whatever..to each their own. But it seems that there is a personal problem with you and these films! Boycotting a movie??? Get a life!! After Ep.III...and years after...I guarentee that the majority will look at the series as a classic!! Everything afterwards will be a "Star Wars Rip-Off"!!
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Okay, you know what? Everyone in the "Saga" is evil. EVERYONE. There. Even Wicket. Well, actually, Lobot was pretty to himself about things, so the verdict's still out there. The events that have transpired and are going to transpire aren't that twisted if you really think about it. C'mon. I think if you're all expecting triple-cross on top of triple-cross in III, you're REALLY going to be disappointed. The Jedi were arrogant in the end days. That much is apparent. Someone inside the Jedi community is/was trying to cover something up. That should be clear. I think it's Mace. (Gut feeling) It'll probably just be Dooku. But Qui Gon Jinn was NOT a double agent. He was rebellious and obstinant, but his heart was in the right place. And the disappearing thing? I know I read this somewhere, but it's a Jedi trick only for those that are properly attuned to the Unifying Force. Qui Gon was much more attuned to the Living Force. Vader's blade never hit Obi Wan, per se. He waited until that exact instant to 'blink out', if you will. Yoda just spoke his peace to Luke and did a slow fade. As far as the apparitions are concerned, Anakin appearing with Yoda and Obi Wan is not totally explained. Who knows if Qui Gon won't appear to Obi Wan in the final (sniff!) film? But don't be surprised if Mace is the first Jedi in the Saga that just 'beams out'. That would be assuming my little theory's wrong. But no matter what, patience. It'll all make sense soon enough, provided you're not trying to get a conditional release from your padded room by '05.
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It was Anakin's rage brought out by the death of his mother that caused him to loose the Jedi "sword" and wipe out an entire village. This begins his walk to the dark side. In EPIII, something terrible must happen to someone that he loves even more than his mother to bring out that type of response again. My take, the Emperor causes the "death" of Padme and her children, and makes it seem that the Jedi or the Republic is responsible, or at least unwilling to go after those responsible, turning his hatred toward the Jedi and completing the journey to the dark side. In AOTC, he proclaims that he will never fail again as he blames himself for the death of his mother. The death of his wife and children, if blamed on the right group focuses all of his rage...and so the destruction of the Jedi...and the republic.
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First of all, Luke has to go to Dagobah as a baby. It lend some credence to his line that this place feels familiar. Secondly, Leia for all intensive purposes thought her father was Bail Organa in the Original Trilogy. So when she talks of the line about her mother she could be referring to Bail's wife not Padme. This would indicate either that Padme dies and Leia thinks Bail's wife is her mother who happened to die when she was young OR Padme takes Leia, shacks up with Bail and then dies. In addition, Vader gives the line in ANH to Obi Wan about who is the master and who is the student. This means that he has to switch to Vader in the third part since he is still Obi-Wans apprentice. Also,Anakin has to know that he has a son. Vader and The Emperor make reference to the son of Skywalker not being able to be a Jedi in ESB, and Vader tells Luke that he is his father, so at the very least he has to know he is a father to a son in E3. My guess as to how the third part plays out to some extent will be that Anakin will know of Luke but not Leias birth,she will be hidden at birth by the various powers that be... (Obi-Wan,Yoda,Windu,Organ). These same powers will also decide that Anakin has become a bit unbalanced so they decide that its in their best interests( and for the good of everyone else) that Luke dissapears too. This loss of his son is what pushes Anakin over the edge and turns him fully to the Dark side. Lucas was trying to say something about the pretensiousness and pompicity of the Jedi in AOTC; that they know whats best for everyone else. By making Anakin turn to the dark side as a result of a action the Jedi did to serve what they thought was best; Lucas shows that. In addition, the entire time frame of the 6 stories plays a role in determing what happens. At the start of ANH, Luke is seen to be at least 18.(for explanations sake we'll say 20). the current state of the Empire though seem to be one in the final stages of transformation from the Republic to the Empire.( remember Tarkin says that the Emperor had finally disbanded the Galactic Senate) so in ANH it seems that the Empire is not fully dominant yet. My bet is that E3 will jump forward a few years like AOTC did and Luke and Leia will have already been born.
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"Can someone please explain to me why Boba Fett's dad is Australian?"
He's a Kiwi, specifically a Maori. Although why he chose to reprise the role of the Rocketeer in this movie is beyond me.
As an aside, assuming that the Clone Troopers will become the Stormtroopers we all know and love, why don't they have an Enzed accent as well? -
Look, boycotting won't make ANY difference. You aren't being "heard". You're a lot less important than you think you are. The fact of the matter is George Lucas can, and will, do WHATEVER HE WANTS. Period. He has the cash, he has the crew he has the story. It is all HIS. Did I hate TPM? Yes. It sucked. It didn't answer any of the questions i had about the SW backstory. Is that George's problem? No. He can do WHATEVER HE WANTS. Do you think he looks at things like "oh the movie made 6 million less than projected in the opening weekend"? No. He sees that the movie made 110 mil and that, to him, is a sign that AOTC is doing well. Period. Did I like AOTC? You're damn right. Why? because I'm a Star Wars fan and dammit, AOTC is a Star Wars movie. Is it the perfect transcendental orgasmic SW experience everyone was hoping for? No. but it WAS fun. It had that tinge of magic that TPM is lacking. It did more to get me back into SW than TPM ever will. And unfortunately too many people take Lucas' telling of his OWN story as a personal attack on their childhood or something. SW was a HUGE part of my childhood, but I'm an adult now and i for one think my best days are AHEAD of me and not trapped in the dream world of a kid. I loved those days, but they are gone. The OT isn't perfect. A LOT of things in it bother me now that I can look back and take them down from the pedistals they'd been put on so many years ago. Lucas was telling his story then, and he's doing it now. If you don't like it, don't go to the movies. You won't be missed... PERIOD.
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The shitty Judge Dredd movie!.The bit where Dredd and Fergie are being chased by Judge Hunters on flying bikes...its exact!!!..including the *going through an electic barrier bit* and the crashing at street level.The irony is that scene in dredd looked like a rip off of the speeder bike chase in Jedi.Besides if anything George was filching most of the look of clones from Blade runner{gas jets, neon, crowds} and bizarrly *Abe's odysey* on the playstation! That bit in the droid factory{Rupture farms from start to finish} , and a lot of the mountanous misty backgrounds were identical.I notice the Dinotopia scandel , cleared all the big reptiles off the streets of Naboo this time.
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And now, there is only one possible title for the next one... STAR WARS: EPISODE III - THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLONES.
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Big crowded city with flying cars. How high concept. So now they can never film that again without giving royalties to Ridley Scott, then William Gibson, then Lucas (most of those concepts were in his original scripts), then about 20 other filmmakers of the 50's and 60's, then Fritz Lang? Could someone show me a legitimate complaint of this film? And general custer, you're an idiot. You had no effect on the BO take at all. Spider-Man had a wider audience and more screens, end of story. In 10 years, AOTC will be making money hand over fist in re-release while Joel Shumaker's Spidey IV, with Tobey McGuire's ball sack hanging out of his tites will be eating it at the box office.
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Do you REALLY, HONESTLY think Lucas sits around and watches movies all day long like you guys do and picks apart different bits and goes "Oh! I'm gonna put that in the next Star Wars movie. Golly, I hope none of the suckesr notice... BWAHAHAHA!" Of course he doesn't. Personally I think he's a bit too busy/out of touch to give a crap about ripping off your favorite movies. He has a vision of what he wants (good or bad) and he does it. Weather it's entertaining or not should be the issue and not what he may or may not be borrowing from. He's borrowed since A New Hope was being written, so it should be no surprise if elements of other films pop up in AOTC or in Ep 3. Get over it and get over yourselves. Go convince a studio that you can do better, go do it and then we'll all get on here and critisize you for ripping off someone else. Great, now i got a headache...
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Well I finally dragged my lazy ass, no that isn't quite correct. My son finally forced me down to the movie complex to see what all the ruckus was about concerning the new and improved Star Wars movie. We watched the whole movie (no potty breaks)which is a major victory in of itself. After the movie was over, we walked out and I could see the jump in his step and the twinkle in his eye. "You liked it?" I asked knowing the answer. "Oh dad, it was a bomb," he thumped back at me and then he said, "Best movie I have ever seen." Well that shook me some what. I mean we had just recently been to LOTR and Spider man. Me, I thought Star Wars 2 was like one of those slick new drone jets flying over Asia. Those jets are untrackable dealers of death from way up high. If one were ever shot down no one would care, but damn they are good to look at. I like planes that have a soul and that goes for movies too. Give me an old beat up Spitfire and one of those new fancy jets and I'll spend my time lookin at the Spitfire. Why the difference...I don't know. When I was younger though I would have like the new jet also I reckon.
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The fact that your son loved the movie is proof that the movie succeeds in capturing it's target audience. You hit the nail on the head with your post. Loved your plane analogy. Never forget that Star Wars are children's flicks. Lord of the Rings was fantasy for adults, Star Wars is fantasy for children....Lucas would admit to this...he's not a stupid man. I work at a bookstore and I've come across many children snatching up the TPM and AoTC novels with that twinkle in their eyes...reminds me of when I was a child, loving Star Wars. Anyway, we all have our preferences...I happen to love Star Wars.
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Coruscant doesn't need to be used or even meantioned in 4-6, thats where the base of the old republic, not the Rebels.
I always thought Uncle Owen was acting suspicious, like he knew alot more when he meets C3PO, so it was good to know some of the subtle acting in those movies may have been to do with an episode 2 (or 1 and 3) that existed prior to the writting of the first star wars film. But it wasn't really neccesary. Also, Owen and Beru never needed to be any real relation to Luke, havent you ever called a family friend or a legal guardian Uncle or Aunt? Anyway, I saw Attack of the clones for free, at the Australian premier no less..it feels good to have my curiousity satisfied without contributing to the Lucas bank account. -
Justsomedude... You think there is a valid excuse to slaughter women and children?!?! That's freakin' ridiculous. Get some help, man. Do you think Padme did the right thing by instantly forgiving Anikin, and NOT immediately reporting him to the Jedi Council???? If that's not the biggest clue that he's not meant to be a Jedi, then I don't know what is. And you're the one calling others "cynical, immature, or inexperienced about life in general"! I know things like that happen in real life, so it's not a gaping plot hole; I'm just saying that it's Padme's own fault for not realizing what an evil bastard Anikin had become, and by not doing something about it, she may be indirectly responsible for the destruction that will be caused by Darth Vader.
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The Storm Troopers in Eps IV thru VI are just recruits not clones.
AOTC kicks ass on T5E...I had a blast.
You're never going to be able to recapture the magic of seeing a truly great sci fi film when you were eight...stop being disappointed by this.
If Star Wars never existed and you went and saw AOTC you'd be blown away and worshipping the ground Lucas walks on.
Go outside and play some frisbee or go fishing or meet a girl or something. Gets some fresh air and excercise you fat pasty geeks. -
May 24, 2002 2:41:09 PM CDT
Did Anyone Else Hear the Wicked Witch of the West Music In Their
by nocureforfools
i know i sure did! i was waiting for the flying monkeys to emerge. maybe in Episode 3, Anakin, wearing a cute little dress, will throw water on him while Jar Jar breakdances to Vanilla Ice in the background. this would fit in nicely with Lucas' complete mental breakdown as is evidenced in these prequal films.*****whoever said that AOTC was crap, but that it was FUN CRAP was dead on. i enjoyed AOTC for the camp masterpiece it is. too bad Lucas doesn't have the wherewithall to realize that he has lost all sense of tension, pacing and story telling. these prequals could have been classics if a better director made them. see: cause the ideas in the prequals are brilliant, but the execution is visually amazing, narratively retarded garbage. lines of dialouge like "i don't like sand..." and "I'd rather dream about Padme" would make Ed Wood cringe in disbelief. so what, Luke has a father complex and Anakin has a mother complex? please!
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was the best shit I ever took...
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not prequAls
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I hate *this* Star Wars. If being fan means I'm obligated to like whatever shit's put before me that has the franchise label on it, then no thanks, fandom is for sheep and lemmings. This movie was irredeemably AWFUL. Hell, Phantom Menace was better than this. Dungeons and Dragons was almost better than this.
When I got into fandom, I don't recall any form I had to sign that required me to suspend my taste, good sense, and high standards in exchange for a one-way loyalty to a FRANCHISE.
That's right - one-way. Lucas gets your money, and what do you get? Raped up the ass. Hell, if I wanted that, I'd be an altar boy. -
heheh....I love it when people easily try to pigeonhole others..into saying something I never said. Look closely to what I said, put it in context, you obviousily did not..I thought I explained myself very well...if you can't relate to it..well then my friend..you have ALOT to learn about life...better yet..skip life and go watch Platoon! Because you might have that movie avaliable to you...however a life...well that might be something that is more difficult for you to attain. Please anyone who saids my comments are unjustified...agree with Hawq..anyone? Anyone? Btw, I'll go even further..imagine your family was tortured by a bunch of tribesman in the outback..how the hell do you think you would respond on a whim? Guess what you don't know....those female tusken raiders(not the children though)were just as responsible for the death of shimi as was padme was responsible for accepting anikan's outburst...they both knew of the exisistence of the situation(two sides to every coin)
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"Star Wars - Episode III: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This" Come on, it's perfect!
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The first prequel was forgettable, the second prequel was intriguing, but the third prequel looks to be icing on the cake! An extremely sour ending to an extremely saccharine trilogy! Oh man, I'm getting goosebumps...
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Citizen Kane. Both movies have actors who say words. But the comparisons don't end there.... Oh, wait. Yes they do.
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glad i didn't see aotc. i'll wait til it comes out on dvd (for rental). ************ and i love the post about how eps 1 & 2 are setting up ep 3. wow.
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Uh...no. It's not perfect. If George Lucas listened to you, he might as well call it "Star Wars Episode 3: Oh, Man, We're All Gonna Die". But seriously, I heard a rumor a while back that Episode 3 would be called "Fall Of A Jedi". Niiiccceee....
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Hi,
Whoever posted that thought on how if they showed Anakin getting put into the DV suit would kind-of ruin ESB is an interesting thought. Even the voice of Vader said that at the time he thought Vader was lying to Luke and most fans who saw the movie the year it came out thought the same. If we are supposed to watch all 6 in order then ESB would not have much of a surprise in it would it?
EP 3 Thoughts/Plot
1) I always thought that Anakin's father was a member of the Jedi council who actually asked Yoda/Windu for permission to dweleve into the dark side while trying to control it. He ultimately failed, somewhere witin that time banged Shmi, and left to hide. His powers got out of control because he was so powerful to begin with (this would explain why Anakin is so powerful). He dies...but leaves his essence behind...in the cave where Yoda lives.
2) Lucas just revealed that the droids get their memories wiped. Probably because they witness the births and Obi-Wan wipes their memories to prevent Vader from ever learning. That still would not explain why Obi-Wan does not recognize R2-D2 though would it?
3) Anyone ever given thought to the amount of children JEDIs that must die in the next episode? None grow up to battle Vader in Star Wars.
4) The fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin will play it this way: Anakin will have Obi-Wan defeated. As he is about to kill me, Padme will interfere and Anakin will stab her by accident, she falls, and he turns his attention to her. She dies...Obi-Wan uses the opportunity to cut off some more limbs and throw him into the lava (or whatever). Anakin will accidently kill Padme while trying to kill Obi-Wan.
Just some thoughts...my first Star Wars related post.
D. -
Besson hasn
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I had a similar experience. Kids love it. They dug The Phantom Menace too. And you know what...that's the important thing. They get the magic, even if we always don't. They fill in the holes with their wonderous imaginations - just like we did back in the days of original trilogy. Critics (adults) found faults in those films, but I loved them unconditionally. Now we have the internet and everyone's a critic. Net has changed even what it means to be a geek. It used to be a bonding thing - us against "them". I guess it still is, but the bitching and moaning via internet - a phenomenon I could do without. And with this thought I'll quit my bitching and moaning. Spitfires are cool, I agree ;) As to why stormtroops ain't exactly elite fighting force - well, would you prefer that they blasted Luke, Leia, Han & Co dead in the original film? Hey Big Jackass, you really cracked me up - not with your theory, but with "Kanadians". LOL, I must be really tired but that's funny, man. But Storm Troopers aren't clones, they're just regular soldiers.
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...and not going to stop anytime soon, thanks to the joker who posited that "The Fifth Element" and "Karate Kid III" are superior to navel lint, much less the highly underachieving but still serviceable "Clones." And, I might add, I'm also getting a little laughter from the bashers, who are too stupid to realize that a) Lucas probably doesn't read these boards, b) if he does, he obviously doesn't give a damn what you say, and c)you all saw the movie--you had to in order to bash it, although there probably are a few trolls out there who aren't above bashing what they haven't seen--which just adds to the gross, ensuring that "Clones" rakes in upwards of $300m and just pads the Flanneled One's coffers a little more. Good night, all!
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May 24, 2002 3:29:09 PM CDT
Three Ain't Always The Magic Number OR... "There Was This On
by jollydwarf
Just thought I'd like to briefly inform the pros and the cons here alike of a third movie in a series that I think EVERYONE can agree is a bad idea. I was just over at "Dark Horizons" and I guess that a first draft for (grab something) "American Pie 3" has just been submitted for your disapproval. But here's the kicker. Apparently it's going to focus on marriage and bachelor parties and whatnot and ALL OF THE FEMALE CHARACTERS FROM THE FIRST TWO MOVIES HAVE BEEN WRITTEN OUT OF THE SCRIPT. What happens in this one? Does "Jimbo" as an intern get caught wacking off with some acne cream that they were going to plug on the set of TRL while Carson Daly interviews Shakira? Does Stiffler nonsensically get in jabs at Carson about Tara Reid? Is Alyson Hannigan's character (Michelle) explained away as a girl who suddenly went lezbo for some Wiccan hottie named Cordelia? Do Oz and Kevin really become "good friends" with a musical number? Does Jim's Dad reveal to Jim his new fixation with puppets? Does he walk in on the guys in a bukkake session with Kathleen Turner? Do Jay and Silent Bob make another lame-ass cameo in another shitty third film? Is Nadia now a jewel thief? Does Anthony Edwards appear in a dream sequence to inspire Finch? Do they do a musical number at the end with Curtis "Booger" Armstrong on guitar? Do they get set up with whores by a pimp play by Beetlejuice from Howard Stern? And has the "Sherminator" been cast for T4? Who would expect a Scandanavian piece of ass in T3? Well, who'd expect a cross between D.J. Qualls and Scott Fargas from "A Christmas Story" in T4? BOTTOM LINE: Bitch all you want about the prequels, but most trilogies end badly. Shamus McFly, anyone?
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I despise all of you chronic AICN talk-backers. Anyone who despised AOTC was never a Star Wars fan to begin with; those assholes are just fair-weather trend-whores. TPM was shit and one could actually (if they were so inclined) write an epic missive supporting that fact. But all I read from the cretins on this board is how much AOTC wasn't like the classic trilogy. Well, get over it asswipes because it's NOT (and what ever will for that matter?) and was never meant to be. GL cobbled the story for this new trilogy out of what was left over from the first run at the SW universe -- the rest has been dreamt up from scratch. That being said, he must be commended for delivering a movie like AOTC that can stand up to the legacy of the holy trinity. The same assholes sharpshooting on AOTC are the same tiny-dicked losers who would squint at me when I'd mention the Force's return in the 90's. I only wish some of you were in physical proximity so I could smack that clueless look off your faces like I did those ass-munchers so many years ago.
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I don't know about you people, but I'm still up for episodes 7, 8, and 9. Lucas says he'll be too old? He can just write the stories and let someone else direct. AOTC has me stoked for ep3.
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i wish Lucas would use the spaceships from the original STAR WARS. I miss the TIE-FIGHTERS , the X-WING FIGHTERS, and the MILLINEUM FALCON. These new movies dont even look like STAR WARS anymore.
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OK, Everyone knows that whether a movie is "good" or "bad" is really a subjective thing. However, in the case of AOTC, we also have empirical evidence. I mean, all of the audience members who laughed AT the movie - not with the movie - in multiple key scenes. I'm sorry. Even though I personally enjoyed some scenes, this cannot be an objectively "good" movie if people who paid $8 are LAUGHING AT IT. Personally, I mostly cringed.
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I love sci-fi. AOTC was bad the first night I saw it, it was better the second night. I could see the seeds being planted. I can appreciate the passions displayed here, but you're starting to attack each other's opinions now. Everyone gets their opinion. Period. Lastly, is everyone on here a homophobe? "that's so gay", ass-raped, "you homos"...Dudes, lay off. I guess no one (including the site hosts) is remembering the rules here. Taken directly off the log-in page:
"Post away, but remember: you're our guest, so please don't be a bastard. Blatant abuse, personal attacks, and hate speech will not be tolerated. In other words, don't be a jerkwad loser. Being a jerkwad loser will get you kicked."
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Anyone else troubled by the stated 20 year gap between E3 and E4? If I recall, Luke's supposed to be 16 (or 18) in E4.
Course if you can accept that the 2 year younger Lea is his "twin" sister, I guess you'll swallow anything.
At this point I'm expecting Lucas to use the old "everybody gets amnesia" for his final scene to cover all the rediculious gaps in his continuity.
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Yes, I read and fully understood your point about heat of the moment rage and revenge and how the raiders are mostly bastards anyway, etc, etc, etc. Maybe you should re-read what I wrote- about how it was 100% out of line with what a Jedi should be, and Padme should have done something about it. That was my main point. There's no need to be hypocritical. (Your arguments can be used to defend priests molesting children, too. You know... they couldn't help but to succumb to their human nature, after being held back for so long, they finally took action to satisfy a primal need.) Think about what you're doing- you are defending the evil actions that are the starting point in Anakin's descent into the dark side.
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Ralph McQuarrie was doing story board development for Coruscant (though it wasn't called that yet) way back in 1980. Luc Besson ripped HIM off for T5E.
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...only people who refuse to put any thought into the story.
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In reference to a much earlier post that listed Karate Kid III as having some quality... Your credibility is now shot.
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hey bowendesign maybe I'm missing something but what do ya mean anakin masturbation scene very funny??
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May 24, 2002 6:45:20 PM CDT
To The Dark Side, Master Yoda Did Momentarily Succumb...
by buzz maverik
Die, many Jedi would if the Clones Master Yoda did not bring. Should he have let them die? Yes, if he honored that for which they fought. The quicker, easier solution Master Yoda took. Destroyed all the Jedi fought for by activating the Clones, Master Yoda did. In a slimey mudhole, his home Master Yoda will make...And this is the first film that I found Yoda to be a likable character (until now, I've hated Yoda like most of you hate Jar Jar). I love it that George is hinting around that the Jedi might not be all that good. More interesting it makes it, as Yoda would say. Better storytelling it is.
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Now that EpII is officially out of the way, and we're all left wondering just how Mr. Lucas intends to tie up all the loose ends stil left dangling between EpsII and IV, I'm surprised that in all these talkbacks posted today nobody has mentioned that hotly debated plotpoint from 1977, namely, the Kessel Run. What was it ? Who was involved? Why does Han site it as an example of his ship's ability and more significantly, why does Obi-Wan react the way that he does when he hears it? Judging from that inigmatic eye roll by Alec Guiness,Lucas was implying that Obi-Wan had been along for the ride.So it's possible that we may be seeing some serious Millennium Falcon action in EpIII, and given that there have been child actors in the first two prequels, it's my guess that there will be two young crewmembers on board as well ,that will answer to the names Han and Lando. In EpV, Lando makes it clear that the Falcon was once his and that Han won it from him, since neither one of them would be old enough to own and operate a scaceship during the time of EpIII, I'll take a wild guess that the previous owner of the Falcon was Lando's dad. Although I've never read it anywhere, I've always presumed that Han was an orphan (Solo?) which accounts for his loner attitude. He may have been taken in by the Calrissian family and treated like an adopted son . In EpV, When Han and Lando greet each other at Bespin, the normally aloof Han Solo reacts as if he were reuniting with a long lost brother.Of course, these are only my own humble predictions, based on clues left lying around from the original triolgy, clues I've been mulling over for the past 25 years. Wether George put them there for a reason , or if he has something entirely different in mind remains to be seen.
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Do you guys LIKE to not like these movies? Do you want to say how you hate a man for showing his vision, not yours? And don't tell me you sat through that fucking movie without being excited. I was pumped and I saw it 4 times. George Lucas is trying to show what HE wants to show, not what some fucking guys on a website want to. If he really cared, he'd be signing this.
I mean, don't tell me you sat there and went, when can I go home and watch the old trilogy??!?!?! I'm so 1337!!!! Do you just want to like the old shit better so people go, ooo watch out, he knows his shit. That's probably the reason. This is not oscar material, but it is my favorite movie of all time. Why? Because I knew when I was at the midnight showing, the theater along with me went nuts for all the scenes. We cheered when the logo came on, we quieted when "A long time ago..." came on, we cheered when Star Wars came on. We all shitted in our seats at the visuals, and the only time people let out a laugh was when they were rolling in the field, I can understand that. And I knew when we all saw Yoda's shadow walking towards the screen at the end and I shouted out YODA!!!! And the whole fucking theater went nuts, that I was loving this movie, more than any other Star Wars film.
People say he lost his touch. Guys, when I started getting into Star Wars at a young age, I couldn't stand a New Hope. It was like, " You're supposed to join the Rebellion!" "OK, Let's go!" Like every other scene. But it grew on me, and I loved it more and more. You guys couldn't stand to love something everyone hates, because you just want to find new ways to make the movie worse, when in fact if you just let go all your negative thoughts, you would have loved it.
Why don't you guys give GL credit for actually getting off his ass and making these movies. And if he doesn't love his fans, then why the fuck would he do these movies, or even add stuff to the original trilogy? After twenty years if I made three of the most succesful movies ever, I think I would just enjoy life, but no, he's in his 50's/60'making these movies for the people that you guys were in the 70's, kids. He did these for his kids also, which means it's not like he just wants the money, he already has so much that he would not be even able to spend it all in a lifetime. This is his home family movies for his kids, the dreams he wants them to dream, make their own stories up, like people are now.
And I bet you, 20 years from now, people will be crying for more movies, and these movie will be looked at as better movies than they are now, and AOTC is my favorite one from the start.
Start enjoying this, before it's all over in three years, cause you know that once Ep III is out, a little part of our Star Wars lives will die. -
Way to go General Custer! Your boycott practically toppled Lucas' empire. ONLY $110 million or so on opening weekend. Yeah, that's really sad. Poor George, he must really be missing your $8.00. Get a life.
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STAR WARS:EPISODE III
REVENGE OF THE SITH
BECAUSE LUCAS HAS SAID THAT THE PREQUELS IN A WAY ARE MIRRORING THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY,AND RETURN OF THE JEDI WAS ORIGINALLY CALLED REVENGE OF THE JEDI,BUT LUCAS EVEN SAID THAT REVENGE WAS AGAINST WHAT THE JEDI BELIEVED IN, BUT NOT THE SITH.ALSO THE TITLES,IN A SENSE,WOULD MIRROR EACH OTHER.
EX. I.THE PHANTOM MENACE
IV. A NEW HOPE
II. ATTACK OF THE CLONES
V. THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
III. REVENGE OF THE SITH
VI. RETURN OF THE JEDI
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in AOTC, which has to be far better than Friday the 13th in space, right?
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You all make my brain hurt.But before I go,a few points:The ONLY
reason you HATERS are comparing
AOTC to 5th Element is due to a yellow cab and a yellow speeder.-I
too imagined the Clone Wars being more epic in scope.But,as Yoda said,"this Clone War,it has begun".-Yes,this New Trilogy WILL ruin all of the SUPRISES in the Original Trilogy.-Yoda DID kick some serious ass.-Padame'will NOT
die in Ep3.-Sideous & Vader are NOT clones.-We don't REALLY know which side Dooku is on.It appears that he MAY actually be the founder of the Rebellion.After all,everything that he told Obi-Wan was true.-And lastly:I STILL LOVE STAR WARS.
AND,three years can seem like an eternity.So let's just let it go for now. -
Dooku is Anakin's father...possibly? See the look on his face when he cut off Anakin's arm?
Qui-Gon was corrupt. Dooku hinted at that telling Obi-Wan that Qui-Gon knew of the corruption in the senate and don't forget "he was once my apprentice as you were once his." Maybe Qui-Gon was the one who put in the order for the clones, claiming to be Master Syfa-Dyas (spelled right?)who supposedly died before the order was made? And why do we hear Qui-Gon's voice shouting Anakin's name as he slaughters the Tusken Raiders? Qui-Gon was definitely not "pure." He took a wrong turn somewhere. He has a hand in all of this and that's why he didn't become one with the force and return in spirit form when Darth Maul killed him.
Liam Neeson recorded his voiceover work in AOTC during filming of TPM.
And for those of you that missed it, when the freighter that Anakin and Padme are stowing away on approaches Naboo, there are a few ships at the docking Bay. On the left hand side the Millenium Falcon sits docked.
That's my two cents............... -
What if Boba Fett kills him? He watched him decapitate his father in front of him, which must have traumatized him to follow in his father's footsteps. Also, since Episode III takes place several years in the future, he could use this time to train himself for one chance to kill Mace (it happened to Inigo Montoya in the Princess Bride!)
Besides, who better to be Boba Fett's first kill than the man who killed his father... -
It's offical: The success of Star Wars and Empire was due in no small part to the input of Gary Kurtz. That has to be it. Why else did Return of the Jedi have problems? Why else was TPM and now AOTC the weakest Star Wars movies?
Weak script.
Flat acting.
The Yoda fight was laughable. So out of character for the little guy to see him whip around in the air.
Obi Wan Kenobi--so whiney.
Some good ideas, poorly executed.
Ah well, only one more to endure. -
Star Wars: Attack of the Clones is a blatant rip-off! After seeing the movie I decided to take a look at some of the other films with flying cars. What I found truly disgusted me. I discovered that throughout the annals of movie history everyone has ripped off this phenomenon. The Fifth Element, which contains flying cars, has robbed the creators of Back to the Future, which also contained a flying time machine. Oh, but there's more to this conspiracy. As I dug deeper I discovered that in fact this flying contraption from the Back to the Future movies was by no means original, oh no. Actually, there were flying cars in a little film called Blade Runner. The bastards! To think they could get away with this blatant forgery. The complete and utter thievery! Criminals! They deserve to be drug out into the street and battered with lightsabers. But the puzzle doesn't end there; fore I discovered that Blade Runner was not the originator of these flying contraptions. Another atrocity of filmmaking has occurred and the creators of this trash that they call original and creative should be blasted to oblivion for their insolence! As scoured through the recesses of film history I came across a true classic of moving making. A little film made in 1977 called A New Hope and low and behold it also had a flying car. Luke Skywalker, the young Jedi in training, who would eventually destroy the evil empire and lead his fellow rebels to victory in the two films that followed, was the true originator of the flying car. In Luke's younger years he traversed the deserts of Tatoine in a flying automobile. Discovering this fact eventually made me realize that George Lucas is nothing but a dirty, horrible, no good, disgusting, despicable thief. He has robbed, he has pirated, and he is the epitome of all that is evil in this world. He has created a mockery of all that is decent by stealing from great films made back in 1977. What would the creator of A New Hope think of this? He has every right to sue the pants off of Mr. George Lucas for robbing him of his wonderful ideas. Hmm who was that guy that made A New Hope? Oh yeah, George Lu...err um...
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Much as I empathize with the many harsh critiques of TPM and ATOC, much as I despair or Lucas writing/directing the next one, all the story elements are in place for something amazing to happen in 2005. Crude and wobbly everything to this point may well be, Episode III could be the best Star Wars movie ever. I don't believe in miracles, but I am hoping. All George has to do is hire a competant director and screen writer. That's it. The potential for drama, deep, moving and fantastic, awaits. George, if you read these postings, I want you to know that despite the severe criticisms I have made in the past, you can still do it. I wish you the best.
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Look how they die... Jango, head lopped off by Mace, the Blackest of the Jedi... Bobba, eaten by a giant sand vagina with teeth... Is George trying to say something subliminal here: Giant toothy vagina, losing ones HEAD... Maybe George is trying to tell us women are evil and he's turned to the gay side...
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"around the survivors a perimeter make...".... Fucking hell, I get the concept of Yoda talking like a sage, but that was just pushing it way too far... Half the audience laughed at that, so forced... Getting sick of listening to the backwards talking green fuck... I would have liked one of the clone troopers to just bitch slap the little piece of fungus and yell "Shut the fuck up you little bitch and talk properly... "
One other thing I think was dodgey... Yoda is like 900 years old, he walks and moves like he's 900... Yet he fights like a peice of liquid, flowing all over the place, unbeatable... It just doesn't match up... Sure it looked cool, everyone went nuts over Yoda kickng ass, but it just doesn't make sense, the little fuck can barely walk then suddenly he's jumping all over the place... Just shit. -
I thought the idea of Qui-Gon being a bad guy was stupid. But then I thought about it, and you know what? It really makes some sense. Watch Episode 1 (if you dare) and check it out. Qui-Gon sets up everything. The idiot Gungan who votes for the Clone army? Qui-Gon picked him up. Qui-Gon introduces all the major characters. Qui-Gon takes Anakin away from his mother. Qui-Gon makes Obi-Wan, who is technically still a padawan at the time, promise to train Anakin. Heck, Qui-Gon brings up that whole 'prophecy' stuff to begin with. Qui-Gon sets up his former master Dooku to be Darth Sidious' new apprentice, laying down his own life in the process. But he's probably a good guy, even with all this evidence to say he's bad. And stormtroopers can't shoot straight because they're sucky conscripts. Imagine if all the guys you work with or go to school with got drafted into a huge army where everybody wears armor that ensures anonymity. They'd all be screw-ups. They're not clones, because clones degrage over time, and go insane, which they'll probably get into in the next movie. Or they'll have Temeura Morrison overdub all the stormtrooper lines for the 'Ultimate Special Edition'. "Oi, poofta! You know wot's goin' on?" "Croiky, mate, must be another drill." Close the blast doors, indeed.
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You got an Email from "a Fox executive," attacking your "boycott?" Holy shit, kid... have you not taken your lithium today? You're either delusional or just a horrible liar. If attention in this talkback is all you want, rest assured you'll get it. You'll be hounded incessantly by people like me, writing to tell you the cheese has definitely fallen off your cracker. But just to humor you and offer you the skull-thumping you seem to want, all your bullshit about some grass-roots upstarting against Lucasfilm is pure idiocy. Seriously. I've seen better "movements" floating in a toilet. So I implore you... if being geekbashed time and again on AICN is not what you are trying to accomplish here, give up this stupidity now. The dignity you save could be your own. (PS: Fox has already made their money from Attack of the Clones. Lucasfilm paid the studio a flat $50 million to distribute the film. All the grosses from the ticket sales go straight to the boys on the Ranch simply because George has so much power on this venture that he's got Fox by the short-n'-curlies, and they agree to whatever hilarious terms he sets. Bottom line: Fox wouldn't even GIVE a shit about a boycott, even if it DID have even the slightest effect on the movie's intake. They got their check; they could care less.)
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- Spoiler! If you haven't seen AOTC yet then don't read -
Ok, everyone knows that Anakin eventually kills almost all of the Jedi. He also hates Obi Wan Kenobi and kills him in the end. As I was thinking about it, I thought that there is one important thing that may play into the next movie that eventually gets Anakin to completely turn. In Attack of the Clones, Obi Wan tells Anakin that the events that are happening to his mother in his dreams are not real. However, these events are really happening and if he would have acted Anakin may have prevented the death of his mother. I think that this fact will increase the tension within their already troubled relationship. -
being that boba is a exact clone of jango fett then the same actor that played jango should play boba. doesnt this make sense? -
All of the inconsistancies in the Star Wars saga are explained by R2D2, most of you just can't understand him. Such as in A NEW HOPE when, on Tatooine, R2 says "Bleep, bip, blop boo" which means "Crud, the Jawas stole my rockets!"
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Read it until you weep!-------------> http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Movies&action=page&type_id=&cat_id=270338&obj_id=34699<--------------This article explains why George is doing what he is doing. Haters can eat shit and die!!!!!!!!!!___---KNEEL---___
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I have to say that asthetically, I would agree with snm1266 (way back up there!) that the whole six-part series should be looked at in order, and any revelations in Episode III should take that into account. Snm1266 said a few things, though, which upon further speculation make it clear that Lucas is NOT looking at the series this way. For instance, the idea that we should not be made aware of Anakin's transformation to Vader at the end of Episode III, or have any way to "not be surprised" by the revelation in Episode V - but there are two problems there. One, we've already seen Anakin and Padme get married. Two, the only spoiler we have so far is that Obi-Wan places Luke with Owen Lars by the end of Episode III. So logically, seeing Episode IV and seeing Luke with uncle Owen would connect the dots, and we already know that Anakin is Luke's father. I think Lucas would have to be doing some very fancy thinking to get away with not revealing that Vader is Anakin (and therefore Luke's father), and - no disrespect to Lucas here (even though I was as dissatisfied with Episode I as most were!) - I don't think Lucas is up for that. Basically, the prequels have been a little to referential to the original trilogy, and I don't think Lucas is looking at it as organically as snm1266 suggests. Which is unfortunate, because that WOULD make for a pretty good series of films.
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McQuarrie did some paintings of Coruscant way back. ROTJ was originally intended to have the rebels take the fight to the Empire's home. Its climatic final battle was to be held over the city-planet, where not one, but two death stars were being constructed. Why Lucas and Co. decided to have the fate of the galaxy decided on backwater moon is beyond me. The painting kicks ass, however, shows two ROTJ-looking death stars in the foreground with the glow of the city behind and below. You may be able to find a pic on the web.
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I was just dicking around over at the ("gorgeous") Quicktime Movie Trailers site, watching the impending debacle that is "Reign of Fire" and the very iffy "Goldmember" previews. Then I finally got around to watching the "Gangs of New York" trailer. Yeah, you know what I'm gonna say. But I mean it. Look, Hayden was not BAD, so to speak, but there aren't many people who could've salvaged that dialogue. I really think that, while we'll never know the real story, Lucas should've gone with the early frontrunner for Anakin. If you can get past the mediocrity that was the "Titanic" love story and "The Beach", you realize that Leonardo DiCaprio's one of the most underused actors out there. Maybe he's just superselective. I don't know. But it's just funny how much I was freaking even before Episode I came out that Anakin would ultimately be the guy who died to Celine Dion's singing (it is lethal in high enough doses). And don't tell me about, "Well, he's only twenty in the films, see..." Fuck that. Does Padme really look like she aged ten years? He could've pulled it off easily. I guess what it really comes down to is that for every Ewan McGregor that Robin Gurland cast that's basically living out a childhood fantasy, there's a Natalie Portman who clearly reeks of "What did my agent talk me into?" (Is it me or do you think that she confides to her friends and family that the whole Star Wars thing is "icky"?) For every shrewd casting of Christopher Lee, there's the fiasco that will be forever known as Jake Lloyd. Lucas is not an actor's director, nor is he good at writing realistic and accessible dialogue. Therefore, he more than anyone else needed actors who were low maintainence and could inject themselves into the role. I know that they were playing footsie about this three or four years ago, but I don't know what gave him cold feet suddenly. Could it have been...US???
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about 11 years ago me and four of my buddies started a star wars fan club.We were all about 10-11 but there was this one neighbor kid who was a bit older(probably about 15)who knew all kinds of star wars trivia so we begged him to join our club. We called him Grand Moff Carlos.Haha...sorry i promise theres a point.NE ways we used to bombard him with questions abuout star wars and what this was or what that meant.One thing I remember clearly was one hot satruday afternoon when the question of why Vader wears the armour came up. he told us he had read a bunch of novels wich pretty much summed up ep1-3 and 7-9.i dont know if this is true or if he was just trying to impress us.hahaha...sorry...in retrospect i guess i dont understand why we thought he was soo cool.so he tells us that when anakin turned to the dark side palpatine took him as his apprentice and brainwashed him to get him to kill off all the jedi.so the last one in his path is his old teacher obi-wan.they have a light saber duel ona bridge over a volcano and anakin gets thrown into the lava.obi wan uses the force to get him out but hes so badly burned that he need to be put into the black respirator unit. again i dont know if this has any validity at all or if it was just that guy maintaining his role as Grand Moff of our motley little band.I read through the whole talkback thing and just wanted to throw this out to see if anyone had heard anything similar.oh yeah and the boycott....man at this point i can only smile...because a 10 year old boy calling an older kid Grand Moff Carlos is just as silly as this wet end believing hes affecting fox with this boycott of his. Custer the only thing that has begun is an itchy spot on my nuts
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1st off: I thought AotC wasn't bad.
Anakin rubbed me the wrong way, and his dramatic murder scene didn't seem to carry the weight it needed to, but that isn't why I'm posting.....I had some thoughts/questions for the Star Wars experts...
Is George Lucas really planning on releasing "ultimate editions" of each episode? (to possibly fill in plot holes; real or imagined)
Were the original drafts of the first 3 episodes(back in the '70s, when Lucas thought up SW) dramatically differnt than they are being told now...thought some of you might know.
It seems to me that there is an enormous amount of plot that needs to be covered in the third installment to "finish" the story. I mean there is Count Dooku, the fall of the Jedi, the birth of Luke and Leia, Vader, the Droids' memories,etc....perhaps some of this will be assumed into the 4th installment.
I'm certainly not one to knock one's artistic vision, but it seems to me that Lucas painted himself in a corner with the incredibly slow paced PM. At this rate he should need another film in between Ep 3 and 4 just to fit a full story. What do you think?
Perhaps some of you could shed some light. Thanks.
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i also heard that the chewie-han thing was basically this.Han was a member of the imperial air force or maybe even a stormtrooper-i dotn rememeber.so anyways there on kashyyk the wookie homeworld rounding up wookies to be slaves.han looks around at whats going on and,already pretty fed up with the empire,decides to bail.hes about to steal a ship when he sees a stormtrooper mercilessly beating a helpless young wookie(chewbacca)whos life he saves by killing the stormtrooper.at this point him and chewie blast out of kashyyk and become smugglers for the hutts.hence the life bond or whatever it was called.like i said b4, just what i heard. p.s.-i wanted to go see a movie tonight but i decided to boycott my local theater-there was this fat guy crying in one of the bathroom stalls and it just creeped me out.thatll show the bastards!
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Guess what--the 5th element ripped off a great cultural staple of our times with IT's flying car scenes. I am of course talking about the Jetsons--YES T-5-E DIRECTLY ripped off this classic and completely original work.
Oh yes Gladiator was the first to have a battle scene in an arena---your absolutely right,,note the sarcasim,,,,
T-5-E was the FIRST to use flying cars,, JESUS CHRIST hte old guy in Element was a dircet ripoff of OBIWAN! Right down to the robes and belt!
You haters out there had good points with TPM--it was bad--but you guys are really stretching here, accusing Lucas of "stealing" from other movies while he visualizes concepts he made almost 30 YEARS AGO! My point is this, how good do these movies have to be? Seriously, how good to make you all happy---are we talking Citzen Kane with lightsabers.
You all hate Lucas and these movies so much yet you cant stop talking about them---Jess Smith was right! -
All I have to say is that TFM ,and AOTC were great movie for two reasons:
1. I went in with an open mind.
2. I dont over analyze the movie...I know its a movie and that there will be stuff I might not like.
So stop acting like babies and enjoy the movie...dont hurt yourselves withe plots and stories..and all that bullshit.....who cares if there are similars scenes to the 5th Element or The karate kid 3( bad movie by the way!).....Its a fuc*en movie! -
Well, Tax Man, "let me tell you how it will be..." I have somewhere the Annotated Episode IV-VI Screenplays. They're in a fairly large paperback together, although it may now be out of print. But I assure you, this "Saga" has been and will continue to be in constant flux. Did you know Han Solo was supposed to be an alien? Ever hear of Anakin Starkiller? Did you know it was originally called "Journal of the Whills"? The book I have doesn't have the entire screenplay, but rather snippets of it an a fairly lengthy summary. Boy, if only I knew where it was! Needless to say, once the characters were set, the following films (in OUR chronology) weren't nearly as deviant from the source material. And you're right. He has painted himself into a corner. Anakin's descent is too big of a story to tell in just seven hours, especially with the Republic and the Jedi perishing at his hands. You almost feel like you're just skimming the story, not immersing yourself as a viewer into it. But there won't be an Episode 3.5. He'll just have a very choppy Episode III that will strive to tie it all up, but will invariably miss some loose ends. Plus, IT'S A "FEW YEARS AFTER EPISODE II"! What, two? Three? Four? More? So we'll not only have to sprint towards the inevitable, but we'll have to hear characters breathlessly explain what was going on again? "Senator Padme, it has been far too long. My, how your belly has grown." Basically, Lucas can pull it off, but it's going to take the story equivalent of a Brett Favre last minute drive, with people running everywhere, fourth and goal from the twelve, five seconds on the clock, a tight end finding a seam in the zone...you get the idea. And as for ecuasuperman, Grand Moff Carlos (that's just wrong, I'm sorry) was mostly right. Mostly. That is pertaining to what was considered the backstory and the overall arc pre-Prequels. The lava pit thing has been generally accepted for decades now (with lots of variation), although I don't know how someone wouldn't almost instantly incinerate upon touching molten lava. And Chewie does alledgedly have a life debt towards Han for saving him from Imperial Slavery. You won't see this happen, I'm confident of that. And Episodes VII-IX were supposed to be set approximately fifty years after "Return of the Jedi", with the droids being the only characters in all nine films. But those also will not happen as planned, for so many reasons. But ecuasuperman, what I really wanna know is...did you just get back from a watering hole? There seems to be the faint smell of barley and hops, or perhaps cinnamon Schnapps, on your posts. I've written a few, shall we say, "teetering" posts before, so I think I know how they flow. Oh well, it's late either way.
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yeah man i know its totally wrong!im laughing at how me and my buddies thought it was the coolest idea at the time.gods, what a bunch of dorks we were!thanks for clearing up a bit on the whole lava thing.i agree that it doesnt make much sense though.some of the other items mentioned were interesting as well.as a matter of fact i bet a couple of friends that i could abstain from drinking for a month and as of right now im 3 weeks in.so no i havent been drinking but i guess the fact that my posts come across as if i have should tell me to shut the fuck up and go to bed.thats it!im boycotting the talkbacks!
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...it was enlightening and somewhat frightening.......Starkiller??...Journal of the Whills??.....you know if better judgement hadn't prevailed, the original movies probably wouldn't have had the impact they still do today...then again you never know...
Your agreement with my 'painted in a corner' comparison isn't encouraging though for the third installment.....i was kinda of hoping for a "don't worry...George has got it all figured out...you just wait...the movie will be epic"....at least you're realistic...the movie could still be good though...I was more interested in how Lucas originally envisioned Anakin and his fall to the dark side...and how that compared to what we are seeing unfold now.....
Plus I hate to be a bother, but what exactly are Episodes 7-9 supposed to be about and who are the main characters?(i know these will never get made...just curious) -
May 25, 2002 4:05:30 AM CDT
That YODA MARTIAL ARTS STANCE Is a Nod to BRUCE LEE,Not NEO.
by chewblacca
...so just stop saying that Lucas
ripped off all these current movies.He only BORROWS from the
CLASSICS. -
Damn! Judge Dredd! Forgot about that one. Thanks for reminding us.
Dredd was CRAP, but it was still a lot more fun than Clones.
As for who should play Bobba Fett, I say Hugh Grant. that way there'll be none of this covert competition against Star Wras...NOTTING HIIL, ABOUT A BOY shit -
Custer are you serious? You think that you actually made some impact on AOTC's opening? Your 6 dollars was the make or break factor alright! That $6 million drop was an overestimation, not a prediction. Poor Lucas.. I guess his "terrible" film is gonna have to settle for a mere $350-$400 million and probably a billion worldwide.. Oh drat... you sure have shown Fox and Lucas that they can't keep making "bad" movies, though for some reason you don't care about the hundred other terrible films that come out each year. Why aren't you trolls dedicating your lives to plotting Tim Burton's demise for destroying Planet of the Apes, or Schumacher for ruining Batman, or for what that damn Dean Devlin did to Godzilla? Those are okay, you're just out to get Lucas! Star Wars films are the most overly scrutinized movies ever. They are picked apart like no other. Every little detail is examined under a microscope. Even though Lucas' most recent film is in my opinion the best movie I've seen this year (yes I saw spider-man), and my second favorite SW film. No I'm not in denial. No I'm not on Fox's payroll. No I'm not kneeling before Lucas sucking on his nob. Unlike you wackos, I haven't lost the ability to enjoy movies. I don't turn everything into a contest, I don't go into films with preconceived notions hoping that it will suck so I can feel big by brandishing my anger on a website, and I don't sit and pick apart every little detail. "Did you see how that alien walked past in the background! God that was terrible! Lucas is a hack! Damn him for all those awful things he did to make me hate him and wish him ill!" I will never get it and I think I'm going to just give up. You people are absolutely out of your minds. I've never seen such wound up hate towards a person who has done nothing to deserve it. George has created something greater and more beloved than any of you could in a thousand lifetimes. So he made a movie you didn't like... oh boohoo! Let's commit mass suicide on the Ranch lawn, that'll show him! At least if you did do that there'd be a lot less bitching in the world. But thankfully the hatred seems to be centralized to this website. Look around and you'll find it's true. No one else fusses like you people. If I were Harry I'd kick all your sorry asses off. Maybe if you spent a quarter as much energy creating your own ideas and making something of yourselves as you do tearing down what others do you'd be able to move out of you parent's basements and perhaps for once take the form of human beings. I'm leaving... bye bye... see you later. Enjoy your useless insult inducing lives. I'll still come back and read Harry's reviews and news, cause I respect him. Like me he goes to movies to have fun... when was the last time any of you did that?
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....said whats been on my mind evrytime i read these talkbacks!i cant understand why soem of the posters on these things get so up in arms about the tiniest of details!i love movies and comics and cartoons and all manner of geeky things but i know were to draw the line.some of u act like lucas made this movie with the sole purpose of pissing u off.an earlier poster made a good point-its ultimately his story,to do with as he pleases.now ill be honest,i havent seen AOTC yet because i have just not had time but im looking forward to seeing it very much.i know ill like it despite whatever lacks of continutity or whatever are in it because im not going to nitpick it to death.i loved spidey and i loved lord of the rings and i thought matrix was fuckin awesome.why are some of u people so bitter and close minded?ill never understand the mentality here.some fo u are just pathetic.
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I'd like to say I actually came out of AOTC thinking that TPM was a better film. Why? Several reasons that I'll get to in a minute. For starters, I had a lot of issues with AOTC that I find it hard to explain to people because they love it so much, even calling it the best SW film ever. Someone a few years ago was reading me an article defending Episode One over the phone and now I am surprised how much I've come to accept something that I was told and can recall: AT NO TIME DOES IT EVER NOT FEEL LIKE YOU ARE WATCHING A STAR WARS FILM. For all its flaws, TPM did indeed always feel like a Star Wars film -- The look, the tech, the effects, and the costumes were all there. Meanwhile, while watching AOTC, the only scenes that felt like a SW film were those on Kamino and a very limited amount of scenes elsewhere in the film. But that's just me, it simply seemed like so many things in the film were done with the look in mind rather than the feel. I also recall a complaint a viewer made in regarding TPM: TOO MUCH IMPORTANCE PLACED ON INTRODUCING CHARACTERS. When I say this, I mean that some people made the insinuation that at a few points in TPM the film almost felt like it stopped, just so the audience could have the time to feel the importance of the introductions of Jar Jar, C3PO, R2, Jabba and Anakin. AOTC gets around this for the most part, but the film seems to stop for me whenever you put Anakin and Amidala on the screen together. OPENING SCENES: The opening of TPM, to me, ranks right up there with Empire and ANH. I'm not talking effects or visuals; I'm talking mood and feel. Put yourself, if you will, in a theatre with about 20 theatre employees and friends watching TPM for the very first time in mid-May 1999, 2 days before it was set to start showing. It was an experience we had been waiting for for nearly 20 years, and we are finally presented with a pair of Jedi. Almost everything to the moment they get to Naboo (and the bad acting by the aliens) is good; it felt familar, yet new - and we wanted more. With AOTC, the opening never felt powerful or dramatic. I'll concede to the point that I did find it great to look at as the silver ship was coming down, but it simply felt dull at it's climax (despite the explosion). But after it was all said and done, we mostly hated TPM when we got out, but we still wanted more. It didn't really feel like a full film, and neither AOTC (to me). But we were eager to see the next two films because there was so very little truly revealed in TPM that we couldn't wait to see all the great things revealed by the following films. To me AOTC was spending so much time trying to 'wow' me with effects that it was neglecting a few things: How did Anakin go from the sweet young boy to a cocky teen so dramatically (besides hormones)? I can understand his superior skill causing it to happen, but it all seems rather abrupt. We don't see a bit of his training and interaction with other padawans and Jedi, a move that I felt would have been able to expand our viewpoint on how he'd become so cocky and sure of himself. I belive the phrase is "show, don't tell." Granted, we are shown that ObiWan is 'overly critical' and 'commanding' of him, but we only see it in the line of duty (protection of Ami, chase, fight with Dooku). Of course, we can play this game of "What would I do..." all night long with changes we'd make to TPM and AOTC, but why not a sparring session between Anakin and another student or Obiwan where we can see this side of ObiWan when it is strictly in private and a non-life threatening? It's the difference in seeing 'overly critical' and 'over-protective' to me and would go a long way to show that Anakin is still not as good he thinks he is and possibly more impulsive and stubborn than he wants to believe. I don't know... It's just looking back on Episode One after seeing Episode Two, I can honestly say that with the exception of Jar Jar and spaceship battle and the 'retaking the palace' scenes in the end, it was actually a good movie. In fact, I'd be willing to say that the Darth Maul fight in the end was more thrilling to me than the lightsabre duels in the end of AOTC because you had this sense of real danger against real opponents, rather than lifeless CGI droids and blasters. Which brings me to another point: For years fans have been wanting to see Jedi in their prime, full out in combat. But what do we get to see the scores of Jedi essentially fighting in AOTC? They are reflecting blasters and slicing apart CGI robots. While some commentary could be made that the Jedi are ultimately brought down low not by superior oppenents, but by simply superior technology and numbers (massive numbers of clones and droids) and are helpless in the face of such advancements (is this supposed to be an allegory to the decline of the samurai after the introduction of western military technology and tactics to Japan? I dunno, not a history major...), I wanted the Jedis to go up against actual breathing and living foes -- like Maul and Fett; enemies that did more than get hit and fall down. Is it any wonder then that almost everyone seems to like the Mace/Fett and QuiGon/ObiWan/Maul fights? They were foes that didn't simply overwhelm their opponents, but challenged them. I dunno... Just my thoughts... Anyway, getting back to a thought in this thread, Amidala doesn't have to be Leia's mom. Let's say Bial Organa's wife in the next film is pregnant and ill, privately losing the child. Suddenly Jar Jar shows up with newborn Leia instructing them to keep the child safe and raise her as their own. Bial's wife lives for a few years (dying of health issues) with Leia as their child, but is always saddened by the fact that A) her real child is dead, and B) She's raising the hellspawn of the Jedi Antichrist... But like I said, "I dunno... *shrug*"
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While alot of folks have mentioned movies from the 80's as influences on Ep.I&II, I think it might be valuable to watch The Battle of Britain(1969) and see it's influences on ANH. Primarily the connections are with the Rebellion. You have the outnumbered RAF squaring off against the Nazi bombers. The scenes in the British Air Command room always come back to me when I watch the closing sequences of ANH (lots of women with headsets and charts).
How do you make the Kessel Run?
Poke it with a stick. -
I know George likes to keep his movies PG, but for all us 'adults' who should be engaged in more fullfilling endeavors, I have a scene in my head that I wish I could have seen on the screen. It goes like this: Anikin's killing spree in the Tusken camp: Crazy footage, a la the final sabre battle with darth Maul and Obi Wan, Anikin doing Jedi-jumps all over the place, the dramatic score and everything... close-ups on him getting more and more agitated, showing how the Dark Side is taking over, actually showing it, instead of just hinting, like what happened in the rest of the movie, also, showing how the Dark Side is more powerful, he's frigging unstoppable, full action, fun fun, would've been nice to see. You could even cut away from this, show Obi wan for awhile, just so you don't actually see Anikin slaughtering kids, but then cut back to the final showdown: Tusken camp in flames, finally, he faces the 'chief' of the 'tribe', the big man's protected, he's scared, but he yells some of the tusken gutteral language at his remaining henchmen, they rush little Ani, but Anikin throws them with the force, really far, like maybe over a hilltop or something, showing how he's super-charged. finally, he kills the 'chief' with the force, strangles him, like Vader would do. THIS WOULD'VE WORKED. It could've also been foreshadowing within the Attack of the Clones itself if Lucas had shown him use that Jedi-Super-Power he's supposed to possess. At the end, during the arena battle, he's traumatized, he's hurt, he's surrounded by dead Jedi, he freaks out and brings down a section of coliseum wall. Could have tense close up shots of Mace Windu and Obi Wan realizing what Anikin really is-- the Force made flesh, JESUS AND THE DEVIL IN ONE!!
sigh. There are a lot of ways the movie could have been better in my mind.
btw, Palpatine and Sidious are not clones. They are the same. He's powerful enough to take over the whole friggin Galaxy, he can pull the wool over a couple of old Jedi geezers. -
Check out the skeletal choker in the fireplace scene entwining her neck in a death grip. I see a bit of a resemblance to Anakin's burnished prosthetic, don't you?
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What is this crap about Owen not remembering owning a protocol droid. If you really know you're star wars then Owen does actually remember C3PO - Not the actual droid, but the type of droid. And as for the Jedi not sencing the dark side. Next time you see episode 2 you watch Yoda when Palpetine speaks with him. He gives him a real 'I just don't trust you're ugly face' look. The Dark side clouds everything! Impossible to know the dark side when you are sworn to the good. But it can be senced. And as for Padme... she doesn't have to die at all in Episode 3 at all. In fact Padme could teach young Leia the values of being a lady - because they are on Alderon, Bail Organia (Jimmy smits) must have something to do with all this then... remember Leia's last name is 'Organa'. Perhaps Padme is dying right through out the film? Who knows? Who wants to know? Personally I think come 3 years time we are in for quite a ride. Lets look at what has been set up. Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus is obviously under the finger of Siddious. He is the way Vador was... is... will be. I have no doubt that Lucas will sort all the problems of the droids memory and all that. Persoanlly I'm a little pissed that the droids were at the wedding at the end, right after 3PO has his head reattached he seems to be wiped clean of memory... those two should have been stuck on that planet so they could be off on their own little adventure in Episode 3 - but i'm not writing it so I'll shut up. But of all my Questions.... How the fuck does Yoda end up on Dagobarr??
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I am so fucking sick and tired of hearing that this film ripped off blade runner and fifth element. Hear me now and lets finish this. 1) Blade runner and fifth element are movies made from director's quoted as being inspired by stars wars! 2) Episode 2 was written from a story outline Lucas came up with almost 30 years ago. I know! I've read it. It was called 'THE STAR WARS'. 3) You fucking idiots, fifth element's car chase wasn't half as impressive as Episode 2's. 4) Who cares if it happene din fifth element first? Does that mean there can never EVER be another chase through a futuristic city? Give it up tossers, you try to sound intelligent and all mighty, but you just sound like the whining bitches you are! I'll be back if i read anything else that pisses me off.
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Attack of the clones is a great Star wars film. I tell you now if this trillogy came out first, 20 odd years ago, looking exactly the same as she does now - you bitches would be creaming for the next 20 years, then hateing Episode 4,5,6. Why? Because Episode 4,5,6 are really bad!! not like the superior predessors. Bunch of twangers. Can't you just enjoy you're films. They could have been straight to video cheesy pieces of shit! But no, these are big movies. And they are great! I feel sorry for you morons who consider this film a complete loss. I'm giving you all the finger as I head out the door to see Star Wars on the big screen, joining the stories that I love so much and find so inspiring. Fuck you!
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...and THERE is the problem with the prequels. In the OT we could take the evilness of the Empire at face value. These dudes were E-V-I-L. Ok? Why? Because they fulfilled all the requirements of movie BAD-GUY. Brash, tough, ruthless, dressed in black. Heck they even had English accents AND a superficially fascist organisational structure. Problem: Phantom Menace and Clones show that the GOOD GUYS were in fact a bunch of corrupt, incompetent, fractious idiots that couldn't resolve a minor tax dispute let alone maintain peace and harmony across the Galaxy. The JEDI are an elite aristocracy - membership requires inherited midichlorian characteristics. No midichlorians, sorry - can't join. We even see YODA tutoring a bunch of JEDI YOUTH. The JEDI themselves and institutionally are arrogant and complacent and don't involve themselves in matters where true justice demands to be upheld (slavery is _really_ tolerated and accepted in a galaxy where droids exist to do every menial task?). THIS is what the Rebels are fighting to restore? Eh? These aren't rebels these are Aristocrat Fundamentalists. If it weren't for the rebellion itself, the galaxy would have peace and order, and it would be the Empire that achieved this. Something the Republic and the Jedi could not. In fact, even VADER makes it clear that this is his goal - when he has Luke, the greatest threat to the Empire, at his mercy on the gantry in Bespin, does he strike him down? No, he appeals to him, asking him to join with him and END THE VIOLENCE! VADER wants peace, LUKE and the rebellion want to carry on fighting. We used to be able to side with Luke and the Rebellion because they were fighting the BAD GUYS. But after TPM and AotC it's pretty clear that the BAD GUYS aren't that BAD after all, and so it's a little harder to appreciate Lukes point of view. All of a sudden, we find ourselves rooting for Vader and Palpatine in the OT! Conflicted? You betcha. Way to go George. Anyone still believe that this backstory existed to this level of detail and needed to be told? There is a very real risk that the prequel trilogy will actually undermine the original trilogy, not underpin it. Shame.
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why is everyone saying that portman is going to die in the third one....i thought that in jedi luke asks leia what he remembers of their mother and she says something or other...if she was just a baby she would never remember what her mom was like...i sense that is portman is to killed off then there is going to be work ahead for casting director robin gurland who will have the task of fiding kid versions of mark hamill and carrie fisher....that aint gonna make for a good movie if we remember jake lloyd.
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Or should I say Section Eight discharge, because you have some serious mental issues. You are boycotting Star Wars Episode 2 for no intelligent reason and you're denying that you're the only one doing it. I feel like crying, that's so sad. Or laughing. Oh yeah, 20th Century Fox gets REAL pissed off when one fan doesn't see the movie. Your boycotting army has retreated, General, so admit to yourself that you're the only one marching and run home while no one's looking. You are dis-missed!
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Has it ever come across your tiny little brain that maybe it's possible that many people actually LIKED this movie? That maybe your viewpoint doesn't apply to the whole goddamn world, especially since YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE? Move along, kid. But, seriously, folks, I would like to thank General Custer for providing a valuable example of one of the downsides of this site...extreme fanboys. Star Wars seems to attract them like moths to a flame. Rick McCallum has himself dissed these people, but admits that they are somewhat necessary. But they are royal pains in the ass as well. There are two examples of these kinds of people: in one corner, a die-hard Star Wars fanboy named Shaggins, who loves and worships everything Star Wars related. He loves Star Wars so much that he is in denial that Spider-Man is formidable competition of Star Wars. He makes up ridiculous stories and theories to support his excuses as to why Spider-Man is doing so well, and/or why the Star Wars craze may be fading little by little. Today, it's his "box office fakery" claims, tomorrow, it's "AOTC will gross 210 million its opening weekend!" In the other corner, we have good old General Custer here, who is just the opposite of Shaggins. He hates Star Wars with a passion, and he also tries to make up ridiculous excuses to support his viewpoint; to claim that he's not the only one who is like this. He tries to launch a boycott, and it fails miserably, but in General Custer's mind, it's a huge success. In his mind, he has started an anti-Star Wars revolution, and George Lucas is on the verge of begging him for their forgiveness. And, like Shaggins, he also uses denial, when the outside world reality is too much. This is one of the bad things about Ain't It Cool News, folks. This site is meant for movie geeks, but not for movie geeks that are so hopeless that they are really meant to live with their grandmother 24/7 in isolation from EVERYTHING. Hopefully, this will not get in the way of our enjoyment of this site. We can make a game out of it, and call it Fanboy Flaming. Or we can just ignore it. But either way, AIN'T IT COOL NEWS ROCKS!
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now all of a sudden you hate it. Your a jackass!! Your opionion means less and less everyday. At least Ebert said he didn't like if from the start.
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Hawq...bear in mind I am not justifying these actions...oh yes..they are wrong..I am just saying every evil act has motivation or can even be rationalized as justification(even though it may not be). It's very easy to condemn an act when you do not know the context or emotions involved in committing it at a time. Kinda like the Atom bomb arguement...sure you can condemn it in hindsight...but at the time it seemed like the only plausible solution(an invasion of Japan would have cost far more lives on both sides). Now that being said, no..Padme is not guilty in accepting Anikan's rage. We are all flawed people(some more than others)and sometimes we do things that are out of character. Padme knew that Anikian was good inside but he had a moment of weakness. All I am saying is..identify with what the character had to go through...not seeing his mother in ten years..and have her die in his arms by a bunch of savages(who might have been put up to it..we have to wait for the next movie to find out). When you are in love, you love the sinner and hate the sin sort of speak...meaning she can still disagree with the act...but she still loves the person because she knows it wouldn't be something he would normally do. BTW, on a tangient, I still hold true that if woman and children were shooting at me(does happen in war) in combat context(especially if I were responsible for a platoon of men)...I would have no choice but to take those "civilians" as combatants. Military philososphy dictates as soon as another person takes up a weapon..they have made a concieus choice and declared themselves the enemy. But I will also back up what you have to say...War, in itself, is sick and twisted...it's bassically showing one man's inhumanity towards another man. We should never strive for war...but in an imperfect world..we have no choice most of the time.
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I just want to give props out to general custer. Have you read his latest posts? Brilliant! He is either a) a clever troll who knows just what to say to piss people off b) a 12 year old kid who is being grounded like he claims or c) both. Either way, a welcome releief from the closeted homosexual/phobic rantings of elfkiller. Great stuff!
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May 25, 2002 3:02:24 PM CDT
Um geniuses, generalcuster and general__custer aren't the sa
by sea bass
Not that generalcuster isn't a fool, I'm just saying.
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Oh dear lord. Two twats. I bet one is the original dicks wee brother or sister. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. that would make sense. STAR WARS RULES. SO DOES SPIDER-MAN. LORT was good too. AOTC is a great film, load of fun.
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star wars: episode III...REVENGE OF THE SITH!!!!!!!!!
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Spooky is one of the few posters
who makes any sense.I know I said
that I may never read these damn things again,but I can't stay away.Some of you bitter losers amaze me.If you hate Star Wars and Lucas sooo much,why do you even read the related articles?
If I don't like or care about a film,I don't bother reading OR posting about it.I personally have zero interest in LOTR,so I
don't read the column and rant about how much I don't care.That would be stupid and pointless-a TOTAL waste of my time.But,I guess
a lot of you have nothing to waste but time.Movies are entertainment.They are not meant to work a bunch of geeks into a hateful frenzy.I would bet money that most of you Lucas-haters will be lined up in three years to see Ep3 so you can bitch about that too.Do us all a favor and stay home and jerk-off to your pictures of that Dark Angel chick instead. -
All you idiots saying everything is copycat, what the fuck. Hey I know, how about everytime I see a single swipe of a light saber, I laugh out loud and yell, "THAT IS SOOOOOOOO COPYING CONAN THE BARBARIAN AND THE PRINCESS BRIDE!" Or how about every time Obi Wan says the word 'the' I go "OOOOH HAHAHA HE'S COPYING THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!"
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all right, so i'm not really a star wars fan. apart from attack of the clones and a new hope (special edition) i don't care much for the saga, but for heaven's sake (and this comment is intended solely for bitchy little fanboys who put down any aspect of episode II) what the hell do you guys want? george gave you jango fett and his son/clone bobba, he gave you the political downfall of jar jar binks, the beginning of the clone wars, a sneak preview of the future death star and even the greatest jedi versus sith lord lightsaber fight ever (yoda versus count dooku, duh), not to mention a pretty good storyline and the best visual effects of all time! what else are you asking for?
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all right, so i'm not really a star wars fan. apart from attack of the clones and a new hope (special edition) i don't care much for the saga, but for heaven's sake (and this comment is intended solely for bitchy little fanboys who put down any aspect of episode II) what the hell do you guys want? george gave you jango fett and his son/clone bobba, he gave you the political downfall of jar jar binks, the beginning of the clone wars, a sneak preview of the future death star and even the greatest jedi versus sith lord lightsaber fight ever (yoda versus count dooku, duh), not to mention a pretty good storyline and the best visual effects of all time! what else are you asking for?
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Those General custer's had my head in a tizzy! You know, I was thinking, for me the real problem with this new trilogy is that barring Obi Wan and perhaps Yoda, I could really give a rats ass about any of the characters. Will I shed a tear when Mace Windu dies? Nope. Or when Padme gets it? Hell no. I'll be relieved to not have to hear Portman's stilted line readings anymore. I mean, let the girl go clothes shopping, or whatever it is she's really thinking about besides playing her role convincingly. Don't get me wrong, I was entertained by "Clones", but after two films I still feel nothing for most of the principal characters. Spider-Man made me care in a half an hour! (That is the true genius of Tobey MaGuire, he somehow makes you sympathize with him by bareley doing anything.) I think that this emotional black hole that exists in the center of the new trilogy is the fault of Lucas. He is by all accounts a cold fish & he clearly does not understand how to work with actors. He was still married to Marcia when he made, ahem, A New Hope , & the rest of the OT had different directors. I may be the Master of the Obvious for pointing this out, but for me, this is the crux of the problem with the current state of Star Wars. I say get a different director & bring Laurence Kasdan back for the script...problem solved.
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Bad dialogue, cringeful moments, non-believeable love story, but I loved it. Go figure.
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I always assumed that's how Luke came to live with Lars Owen. Obi-Wan knew the Owen's were Luke's closing living relatives (at least the closing living relatives that would give a rat's ass about raising Luke); it would only be a spoiler if that wasn't the reason. But then I again, I find 90% of all spoiler warnings on newsgroups and message boards to actually be insulting to my intelligence; the Internet equivalent of warnings on shampoo bottles that the product is not to be taken internally. The people who don't have enough common sense to know, in advance, from reading the topic of the thread that the nature of the discussion entails that spoilers will inevitably be discussed deserve to have the movie ruined for them, if you ask me.
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I have been following these talkbalks with much humor and a little concern. I remember seeing Star Wars when it came out in 1977. I was the biggest fanboy of it at the time. Since that time, as a previous poster justifiably noticed, I have come to realize that these are ONLY MOVIES! not The Holy Trilogy and if Lucas came out with "Star Wars" today, everyone here would be criticizing it as being hokey. The OT was a great series, but this trilogy is lining up to be even better. And to alabamaboy: you mentioned "just one more to endure". If that is the way you feel about this set of movies, do yourself a favor and don't bother "enduring" one you don't think you will like. That being said, I wanted to help clear up a few questions that haven't been cleared up yet.
1.Qui-Gon's lack of disappearance - It has been reported, that he didn't disappear and become one with the Force immediately because he wasn't prepared to die, as were Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin. But he must have eventually, given the "Anakin, Anakin, Noooo" line.
2. The droids not being recognized on Tatooine - There are loads of Astro-mech and Protocol droids in the SW galaxy, the odds that the same droids would end up in the same place after 30 years is astronomical. The same with Obi-Wan not recognizing R2-D2.
3. Anakin's arrogant attitude - He is obviously falling under the influence on Darth Sidious (Chancellor Palpatine). He seems to give more credence to Palpatine's teaching's than to Obi-Wan's.
4. Anakin's fall to the Dark Side - Am I the only one who noticed, when Anakin reveals what he has done to the Tusken camp, playing in the background is Darth Vader's Theme from the original Star Wars?
5. To piggyback on the last item, at the end of the movie, when we see the troopers and the starships (Star Destroyers?)you hear the Empire's Theme from TESB.
Thanks for your attention, feel free to rip it apart. LOL. -
No doubt this should be a pivotal moment in the series. However I want to see it shown unlike any other fight in the series.
In my opinion it should be a slugfest with lightsabers. It should be gritty with dirt, blood and emotion.Although the fight should be brilliant technically, it should not be the glamorous spectacle of the other films (especially Eps 1 and 2). It should be the only fight in the Star Wars saga to have blood in it (though in reasonable amounts). (SIDE NOTE: I THINK EP 3 ASHOULD BE 3 HOURS LONG AND RATED A PG-13). Both Obi and Ani are burning, blazing with emotion in the fight (though Kenobi probably keeps his cool a bit better). Both feel betrayed by the other. Kenobi feels deeply betrayed that Anakin rejected him and turned on him. He senses his own failure in him which fuels him with shame and rage(this should be the only time even more than after Qui Gon's death that we see Obi really pissed and hurt)and leads to his desire to train Luke in order to redeem himself.Anakin for his part is just ravaged by anger and in addition to feeling that ObiWan is "holding him back",he feels his mom died in part because of him.(maybe something else in Ep3 should happen to further cement his hatred for his mentor). It should be like a fight between an older bro and a younger one. Near the end of the fight ObiWan who has been holding back thus far gives in to his rage and kicks the shit out of Ani showing him why he is still the master. The fight should include force powers and lightsabers, finally devolving into violent hand to hand combat which isnt as graceful as the preceding fight but more effective.However Ani falling into the lava should be accidental. The fight would get our adrenalin pumping but still leave us with a sense of doom and gloom, depressing us(much like the fight in Empire but even more so). I CAN PICTURE IT NOW! Hope u can too. -
I totally agree, however. there is one thing you forget... Ben kenobie is told by Yoda that there is another skywalker. Remember - he thinks that Luke is their last hope... but it's Yoda who has the knowledge - therefore it will be Yoda who takes care of all the secrets and hiding of the twins. He'll probably hand over Luke to Ben Kenobie, but He has absolutly no interest in raising the son of Anikin skywalker - therefore what he does is takes him to Owen larrs and acts as a gardian from a far. How Yoda ends up on Dagobarr I'll never guess - but i liked the idea someone had that dagobarr is the ruins of Naboo.
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Not only is there 2 custers but now theres also wankers like brian jones egging them on!you 'salute' him?christ!were your parents brother and sister?
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Me thinks that Count Dooku is Anakins father. Note the way in which Dooku cut off Anakin's arm just like vader did to Luke? Lucus always said that you would spot recurring themes in the films. This also gives Anakin more reason to turn to the dark side. Dooku tells Anakin he is his father and asks him to join him. Anakin is reluctant but Dooku is killed by the Jedi, possibly by Mace Windu. Anakin has now lost both his parents and becomes pissed at the jedi, kills Windu and joins Sidious. Bam.
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Don't believe everything you have read to you from the IMDB. Guinness said a long time ago in his book that those lines were never spoken by him. And if you don't like a movie, don't fucking watch it. And don't make yourself out to look like a tool by wasting your time complaining about it in its TalkBack. You don't see me in the LOTR forum telling everyone how incredibly homosexual and boring it was. Why would anyone get so worked up about a movie because they didn't like it. Pick up the pieces and move on. Go watch your crying midgets and gay wizard movies.
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dooku being the father of anakin might explain that look of regret dooku gave after he chopped 0f anakins hand. either that or he knows the emperors plan for anakin and then that would mean he knows he's going to have to die for anakin to take his place -
Wow..Brain Jones you must have absolutely no life..if your quoting movies to make a point about people..seriousily man go out more often..and mingle with people..or perhaps stick your dick in some holes(Whatever type of holes that might be). Ultimatly..dude..people have changed and are constantly changing...their tastes, opinions, perspectives, lifestyles. People were very different from the 1950's compared to today..it's just common sense..talk to your parents some time(you do have parents correct?)
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I'm so happy that episode 2 wont be the number one movie of the summer or the year. What an absolute waste of time in my opinion. Boring, fake, phony,slow, and the romance had people in the audience i saw it with, actually leave the theater several times during those forced romantic interludes, until it was safe to come back in.Maybe the fanboys can get another grassroots effort going like they did in 1999 to get episode 2 past spiderman.It didnt work in getting episode 1 past titanic but maybe this time...... naw!!!!!!
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I love trolls that make up funny stories about people walking up and leaving..I've seen the movie 6 frikin times..not once...not ONCE did anyone get up and leave other than to go to the bathroom(I saw alot of people sprinting to go quick..so they didn't miss anything)....yeah I have seen people snicker..but in a playful sort of way...and because they don't really give a crap because it's just a movie(hell I was high as a kite one time and I made jokes through the entire frikin movie). I just love people like puny human(cute name..you spend a week thinkin that up yourself?..or was that just one handle of many that you use to troll this website?)Anyway I do not care..because I know as far as audience reactions 98% of the movie going audience loves this picture. Oh well..let the trolls continue to try to convice other people otherwise...I find it kinda humerous(I am easily amused).
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Supposedly Episode 3 takes place only 2 or 3 years after AOTC. This stuff over Boba killing Mace "could" make sense, as you may recall Jango wanted an "unaltered clone" of himself - though it's not been made clear if that makes a truly unaltered copy or not - the other clones grew at an accelerated rate & if this is the case with Boba it would fit in with him being able to kill Mace, presumably.
Then again the "no disintegrations" comment by Vader could just be that, a comment with no other real meaning other than indicating vader wants them in person, not wiped out. -
You dont me and i dont know but you said my story of people walking out in my theater cant be true because no one walked out in the showings you attended??? Dont you know that all talkbackers are on even ground because there is no way either one of us can verify the others story.Take it on face value. Let's just agree that Lucas is an ivory tower, out of touch hack.Let's at least agree on that.
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hehehe..Puny you real desperate for my approval huh..well I will agree that you can't type worth a dick. BTW, I may not know you personally, but I know the type of person you are..just from your banal comments and cliched attitude.
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it rocked. yoda rules. the end...
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SPIDERMAN 400MIL, AOTC UNDER 300 MIL. The numbers don't lie.
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remember that you spider-man dumbasses. LOTR was by a far a more interesting, entertaining and overall better movie than spider-man but it will have made less money than spider-man. I'm sick and tired of the argument "starwars sucks cause spider-man will make more money" There are so many factors contributing to box office takes that its impossible for all films to be on an equal playing field. ie which movies were already in the theater, which movies opened later, political climate etc etc. Please give it up and try to enjoy the movie. If you don't than watch it, forget it and move on quit bitching (that means you general cum-wad). Use your energy on getting a girlfriend, finishing school and leaving your parents basement.
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Sequels don't do as well as the original with very few exceptions. Let's see how well Spider-Man II does.
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I've got 5 or 6 friends out of many that are boycotting Ep. 2. And I'm with the boycott 100%. Why? Because I posted all that was wrong with Special Editions and Ep. 1 when they came out, and people said "Don't like it? Fine! Don't go see Ep. 2 then!" So here I am. Not seeing Ep. 2. Nor 3.
Maybe this has been pointed out already, but does anyone notice how intelligent the people sound who are boycotting Ep. 2, or who saw it and didn't like it? Their arguments are solid and full of rational, logical observations.
On the other hand, the folks supporting Lucas and Ep. 1, 2, etc. have nothing but foul language and juvenile comebacks. I have yet to read ONE intelligent defense of Ep. 1 or Ep. 2. Probably because there really isn't one.
Defenders of Lucas -- I respectfully challenge you to the following:
Put up a defense of Lucas, Ep. 1, and/or Ep. 2 without using the following:
1) The "It's just a movie!" or "It's just entertainment!" argument. Including the "You're too critical" argument.
2) Lucas can do whatever he wants with his movies. Duh. Like that's ever been disputed.
3) "Fuck you fanboy in your ass" or permutations of the same. Class act! Kudos to you!
Here's what I anticipate in response to my challenge: Either more "Fuck you fanboy" bullshit, or the glorious sound of chirping crickets.
The gauntlet has been thrown down. Rise to the challenge and share your ideas with us.
B. Scott O'Malley
georgelucas@anarchy101.com -
Someone who posts a couple lines in a forum about a movie he likes or someone who posts entire diatribes (with false information) about a movie he hates? Or greater still, someone who tries to organize some kind of a half assed boycott of said movie and won't shut the fuck up about it despite its obvious impotence? I'll admit, there's some loser blood in me for even allowing myself to reply to you wastes of space but you guys have me beat in the loser dept hands down.
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ok, I'll tell you why Episode II was a great movie. I guess I'll do it by category to keep it as breif as possible.....The story - AOTC had more plot than all the other Star Wars films (not to mention some of the other favorite films around here). It's an incredible story with an ingenius, complex Machevellian scheme to turn a Republic into an Empire. It's a love story that turns into one of the most tragic in recent film history. It's a film noir detective story and a good old fashioned action movie. And it's the story of a good man losing his humanity. It's much more complex than anyone here gives it credit for......The characters and acting - some of it is great. Christopher Lee, Ian McDiarmid, Ewan McGregor were all top notch. Especially McDiarmid, with his portrayal as a supposedly concerned and genial Palpatine. The way Lee exudes both pure evil and chivalry, brilliant. And Hayden's confession scene to Pade was the most powerful scene this summer.....The dialogue - People complain about the dialogue, especially the love scenes but guess what? 20 year olds don't talk like James Bond when talking to a girl. They say stupid, cheesy things. If anything, the dialogue was too realistic.......Action and effects - best of any movie ever made, so far. Made those in Spiderman and LOTR look embarassingly amateurish by comparison. Eh, I'm getting tired of writing this, s no one will read it anyway, but there it is.
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May 26, 2002 7:58:45 PM CDT
To Silent James, re: "Citzen Kane with lightsabers" (OR: "Wha
by llghtst0rmer
You know what sucks? Even if the new episodes *did* live up to such an esteemed summary, you know people would still be lining up to bitch. If it's not childish and stupid, it's stuffy and drab. If it's not talky and boring, it's mindless and simplistic. If it isn't derivative and unoriginal, it's unfamiliar and bizarre. It seems like a lot of people don't even really want to see what happens next, they just want it to be "Empire Strikes Back Again." Seriously; if Lucas sent Anakin off to Dagobah to be trained by Yoda while Obi Wan and Padme were chased by bad guys into a gigantic space slug, then met up with Dexter Jettster in Cloud City, where he double-crosses them and gives Obi Wan up to be frozen in carbonite, and at the end, Anakin squares off with Darth Tyrannus, who tells him HE is his father... MAYBE then these people might finally be satisfied. Don't you think?
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If you dislike this movie (without having seen it) so much why are you even bothering to comment so much on it. Move on, you don't want to see it we understand that please move on. Why some wants to waste so much energy organizing a fau campaign against a movie thats made a shit-load of money and is garunteed to make a shit load more is beyond me. Its just a movie as in entertainment. Spend your time on more useful endevors and maybe you'll find that your life has meaning.
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R2D2 will have to get his rockets shot off by a lazer blast.
Luke and Leia are born
Anakin gets injured somehow and has to be turned into "More machine than man".
Almost all of the Jedi have to be killed off.
The remaining Yoda and Obi-Wan are going to have to make it to their hideaways.
Luke and Leia have to be hidden.
(Duh)
Things that would be cool:
A fight between Yoda and Anakin (You know that Anakin has to try and kill all of the Jedi. He had to have fought him). Anakin should have the upper hand and almost beat him. That would be sooo cool to see Anakin be that strong!
A knock down drag out fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin filled with anger and emotion.
Boba Fett avenges his father's death and teams up with Anakin in the murder of the Jedi. -
Actually, the general's last post kind of made sense. People who love AOTC now will probably begin to see more and more flaws with it each time they watch it. That's what happens when you watch a movie over and over, you start to get tired of it and not like it any more. (I've seen THE PHANTOM MENACE 13 times.) Remember when, from 1985-199 when STAR WARS wasn't considered cool anymore (not you, General, you weren't even born yet)? Sure, we'll get sick of the saga, then we'll move on to something else. Then we'll come back to it, and rediscover why we liked it.
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May 27, 2002 7:37:51 AM CDT
AOTC: A great, great Sci-Fi movie, just not a great Star Wars mo
by jaimie kanwar
First off...I LOVED AOTC -- I've seen it 3 times now and will see it again probably. As much as I loved it though, I still had major problems with it. I am not a fanboy with a plastic lightsaber...I'm just a movie fan who loved the original triolgy. ESB in my opinion is the greatest...I desperately wanted AOTC to exceed ESB but it didn't even come close. AOTC was mindblowing in places but to me, just didn't feel like Star Wars. I enjoyed it more as a great Sci - Fi movie rather than a great Star Wars movie. I have many things to say but I'll restrict myself to 3 things: CGI overkill -- the love story and HChristensen . I must add that this my own personal opinion and should be taken as such. The overall impact of the fiolm was dampened for me by too much CGI: Overkill. The problem witrh CGI is that is looks AMAZING but feels fake...whereas stop motion, miniatures etc don't look as good...but somehow feel mor REAL. I just could really take certain things seriously because many aspects of AOTC were so blatantly CGI. Was it too much to ask to have some REAL clonetroopers in suits, even for close up shots..?! To add a little authenticity..?! Some scenes such as the Arena scene were negated because everything on screen (except real actors) was fake. There's no soul...no sense of danger because nothing FEELS real. I just kept imagining the actors flailing around in front of a blue screen. That's not to say that nthe scene is not impressive...it is, just not involving. The CGI shots of creatures being ridden like horses were TERRIBLE, unbelievable and distracting. Populating the film with millions of CGI images may be pleasing to the eye but it alienates the audience in some ways....CGI does not compensate for credibility, realism and a good story. Many have pissed on the love story, mainly for the dialogue. I HATE the love story, but for different reasons. It is not even remotely believable! It feels as if GL thought of every love story cliche he could and just chucked it in (waterfalls, rolling fields, heaving bosoms, burning fireplaces, breathless confessions of love etc) the love story could have been so great and moving...it was wasted BIG TIME. The scenes are static and boring...the scene with the fireplace is without doubt THE worst scene I have ever seen in a Star Wars movie, if not any movie. Its horrible! The Actors (especially N Portman) are so robotic and without emotion ("I will not give in to this" mecahnical!!) just sounds like a line reading. Worst of all, it does not feel like Star wars in any shape or form! A fireplace...??!? PLease! This is supposed to be in a galaxy far, far away...!! It could have been so much more interesting. The story stands still during the love scenes because they are just STATIC...without direction. This is how I would have loved to have seen it: Imagine if, just after Anakin and Padme had set off for Naboo, their ship was ambushed by bounty hunters or something...they were plunged into a perilous situation. Anakin would have to protect Padme. They could be placed under intense pressure as they were pursued across the stars, with only each other to rely on. During this life or death struggle, they fall in love...through conflict...just like Han and Leia. Imagine also that Anakin was pissed because Padme didn't seem to remember him (as he told Jar Jar) this could have led to some pricly exchanges between them...Anakin upset and resentful, Padme not giving in, thus leading to arguments amid the action...but leading to love. Amid this life or death situation, they could have ended up on Tattoine for some reason, thus leading to the discovery of his mother...ridding us completely of the laughable dream scene...I think this would have been awesome! Far more believable and much better than this lovey-dovey fields and fireplaces shit! But alas....GL in my opinion completely fucked it up. I think H Christensen was perfect as Anakin...he has the awesone evil eye! But, he was fucked by GL and the script. His darkness should have been emphasised more. The main letdown was the Tuscan Slaughter. This could have been a GREAT sequence. When Anakin got on his speeder looking mean as hell and rode off to the tune "duel of the Fates" I was EXCITED! I thought we would get to see him really lose it...but no. We were treated to a sanitised version so's not to upset the kiddies. The whole scene was fucked. Isn't it convenient how his mother dies at the exact moment he finds her?!? What...she suddenly has the ability to chose her time of death...?!? Wouldn't it have been better and more emotional if Anakin had found her, tried to get her out of there to safety...and moments away from escape, she was killed by a Tuscan Raider...shot and killed just as he was about to speed away....? That would have been shocking and more intense. But no..we get a barely believable scene. And, Anakins sluaghter lasted all of 5 seconds! Surely that scene should have been longer! It's not that I wanted to see bloodshed or slaughter...I just wanted to see the pain and anguish in his face -- I wanted to see the darkside etched on his face -- I wanted to see him lose control...but again, a great opportunity was lost. The scene were her explains what he did to Padme what he did was great (apart ffrom her reaction) but that Tuscan raider scene should have been better.H Christensen really nailed the part but was screwed by GL time and time again: I would've loved to have seen Anakin doing the Darth Vader "choke" thing...perhaps on Zam Wessel, then being told by OBI WAN to stop. That would have been awesome!! I have to say that the final 20 mins of AOTC are possibly among the most exciting I've ever seen on a cinema screen -- Yoda - Count Dooku is just fantastic! That's an example of necessary and believable CGI -- perfect and warranted, emotionally and visually. I was trembling with excitment during that scene! I also love the closing series of scenes with the Imperial MArch theme, the clones and Dooku and the Emperor...these scenes have a sort of mythic, epic quality -- these scenes feel most like star wars to me. I also loved the end image of Anakin, Padme and the droids as it harks back to ESB, which has almsot the same closing image, positioning and everything. I'm sure you've heard all this before...but humour me!! My copmments about EP 3 will follow...just had to post this as context for that. Thanks!
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May 27, 2002 7:39:07 AM CDT
AOTC: A great, great Sci-Fi movie, just not a great Star Wars mo
by jaimie kanwar
First off...I LOVED AOTC -- I've seen it 3 times now and will see it again probably. As much as I loved it though, I still had major problems with it. I am not a fanboy with a plastic lightsaber...I'm just a movie fan who loved the original triolgy. ESB in my opinion is the greatest...I desperately wanted AOTC to exceed ESB but it didn't even come close. AOTC was mindblowing in places but to me, just didn't feel like Star Wars. I enjoyed it more as a great Sci - Fi movie rather than a great Star Wars movie. I have many things to say but I'll restrict myself to 3 things: CGI overkill -- the love story and HChristensen . I must add that this my own personal opinion and should be taken as such. The overall impact of the fiolm was dampened for me by too much CGI: Overkill. The problem witrh CGI is that is looks AMAZING but feels fake...whereas stop motion, miniatures etc don't look as good...but somehow feel mor REAL. I just could really take certain things seriously because many aspects of AOTC were so blatantly CGI. Was it too much to ask to have some REAL clonetroopers in suits, even for close up shots..?! To add a little authenticity..?! Some scenes such as the Arena scene were negated because everything on screen (except real actors) was fake. There's no soul...no sense of danger because nothing FEELS real. I just kept imagining the actors flailing around in front of a blue screen. That's not to say that nthe scene is not impressive...it is, just not involving. The CGI shots of creatures being ridden like horses were TERRIBLE, unbelievable and distracting. Populating the film with millions of CGI images may be pleasing to the eye but it alienates the audience in some ways....CGI does not compensate for credibility, realism and a good story. Many have pissed on the love story, mainly for the dialogue. I HATE the love story, but for different reasons. It is not even remotely believable! It feels as if GL thought of every love story cliche he could and just chucked it in (waterfalls, rolling fields, heaving bosoms, burning fireplaces, breathless confessions of love etc) the love story could have been so great and moving...it was wasted BIG TIME. The scenes are static and boring...the scene with the fireplace is without doubt THE worst scene I have ever seen in a Star Wars movie, if not any movie. Its horrible! The Actors (especially N Portman) are so robotic and without emotion ("I will not give in to this" mecahnical!!) just sounds like a line reading. Worst of all, it does not feel like Star wars in any shape or form! A fireplace...??!? PLease! This is supposed to be in a galaxy far, far away...!! It could have been so much more interesting. The story stands still during the love scenes because they are just STATIC...without direction. This is how I would have loved to have seen it: Imagine if, just after Anakin and Padme had set off for Naboo, their ship was ambushed by bounty hunters or something...they were plunged into a perilous situation. Anakin would have to protect Padme. They could be placed under intense pressure as they were pursued across the stars, with only each other to rely on. During this life or death struggle, they fall in love...through conflict...just like Han and Leia. Imagine also that Anakin was pissed because Padme didn't seem to remember him (as he told Jar Jar) this could have led to some pricly exchanges between them...Anakin upset and resentful, Padme not giving in, thus leading to arguments amid the action...but leading to love. Amid this life or death situation, they could have ended up on Tattoine for some reason, thus leading to the discovery of his mother...ridding us completely of the laughable dream scene...I think this would have been awesome! Far more believable and much better than this lovey-dovey fields and fireplaces shit! But alas....GL in my opinion completely fucked it up. I think H Christensen was perfect as Anakin...he has the awesone evil eye! But, he was fucked by GL and the script. His darkness should have been emphasised more. The main letdown was the Tuscan Slaughter. This could have been a GREAT sequence. When Anakin got on his speeder looking mean as hell and rode off to the tune "duel of the Fates" I was EXCITED! I thought we would get to see him really lose it...but no. We were treated to a sanitised version so's not to upset the kiddies. The whole scene was fucked. Isn't it convenient how his mother dies at the exact moment he finds her?!? What...she suddenly has the ability to chose her time of death...?!? Wouldn't it have been better and more emotional if Anakin had found her, tried to get her out of there to safety...and moments away from escape, she was killed by a Tuscan Raider...shot and killed just as he was about to speed away....? That would have been shocking and more intense. But no..we get a barely believable scene. And, Anakins sluaghter lasted all of 5 seconds! Surely that scene should have been longer! It's not that I wanted to see bloodshed or slaughter...I just wanted to see the pain and anguish in his face -- I wanted to see the darkside etched on his face -- I wanted to see him lose control...but again, a great opportunity was lost. The scene were her explains what he did to Padme what he did was great (apart ffrom her reaction) but that Tuscan raider scene should have been better.H Christensen really nailed the part but was screwed by GL time and time again: I would've loved to have seen Anakin doing the Darth Vader "choke" thing...perhaps on Zam Wessel, then being told by OBI WAN to stop. That would have been awesome!! I have to say that the final 20 mins of AOTC are possibly among the most exciting I've ever seen on a cinema screen -- Yoda - Count Dooku is just fantastic! That's an example of necessary and believable CGI -- perfect and warranted, emotionally and visually. I was trembling with excitment during that scene! I also love the closing series of scenes with the Imperial MArch theme, the clones and Dooku and the Emperor...these scenes have a sort of mythic, epic quality -- these scenes feel most like star wars to me. I also loved the end image of Anakin, Padme and the droids as it harks back to ESB, which has almsot the same closing image, positioning and everything. I'm sure you've heard all this before...but humour me!! My copmments about EP 3 will follow...just had to post this as context for that. Thanks!
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May 27, 2002 8:02:32 AM CDT
Theirs just too much to fit into EP 3!! GL can never fit it all
by jaimie kanwar
I feel that GL has given himself too many things to do in EP 3. I don't think he can cram it all in and make us give a damn. We've not had time to really absorb the characters. I believe that EP 1 should have began with Anakin as a teen...not a child. This way we would have had the same actor portraying Anakin in all 3 movies...this would have given us time to really understand the charcater , empathise and absorb his fall to the dark side. I'm sorry, but Jake Lloyd adds absolutly fuck all to the series...no emotional reasonance at all. All I remember about him is the crap acting and abominable "yippee" lines. What does the series gain by having Anakin as a kid...? Nothing in my opinion. Qui Gonn could just as easily discovered Anakin as a teen and nothing would have been affected. I also believe that AOTC should have ended with the announcement of Padme's pregnancy. Anakin's fall to the dark side should already have been in motion in a more compelling, yet ambiguous way. This could have been achieved if in TPM Anakin was a teen, and some of the stuff that takes place in AOTC took place in
TPM. This would have moved the story along and given GL less to do in EP 3. I believe that Count Dooku should have been at least introduced in EP 1...all this Jar Jar Binks shit consigned to the toilet (where it belongs) and the timeframe sorted to accomodate. On movie with Hayden Christensen as Anakin is just not enough! We meet him in Ep 2, have to get to know the character, accpet him and care about hi,..then suddenly in EP 3 he becomes Darth Vader...? Not enough time with the character to really care. Look...Ep 3 will in all probability be 2 hrs 10 mins or something (judging by previous running times) there's simply TOO MUCH to fit in! Many scenes will just have to whiz by or just be TALKED about as there is not much time! This will seriously damage the impact of the film. Look what needs to be done! Padme's pregnancy -- birth of luke and Leia -- their separation -- The clone Wars -- Fall of the Jedi and the Republic -- Anakin v Obi Wan -- Yoda and Obi Wan hiding -- Anakin's fall to the dark side -- the transformation -- not to mention all the unresolved issue with Count Dooku, Qiu Gonn, Droid memories etc. Just not enough time to do it all effectively. I fear it will just all happen at breakneck pace to fit it all in. Some scenes will have to be long to fully absorb the impact, surely?! Especially the OBi Wan and Anakin fight and the fall to the darkside. I must admit I'm excited at the prosepct (as some others have speculated) that Count Dooku is Anakins Father and Qui Gonn was corrupt and instrumental in everything! If this truns out to be the case then this would make Star Wars the GREATEST story ever told on film! I hope GL has the balls to go that way! How about this: What if Obi Wan is Anakin's father...the Jedi Council know this but he doesn't...? Probably can't work but that would be interesting!!! Based on what's happened already, I would bet pretty heavily that Count Dooku is Anakin's father...based purely on the similarities between ESB and AOTC ( hand cutting off etc) and it would make perfect sense. Perhaps that's why when Anakin charges for Dooku, he just blasts him with lightning to keep him out of the way...not wanting to kill him for obvious reason? We can but hope! One last thing...if someone can clear this one up...when Ankin is introduced to to Owen Lars, O lars says " I guess I'm your stepbrother" how can this be? If AOTC is set 10 years after TPM and if OL WAS his stepbrother, surely OL would only be 10 years old...? He looks a lot older that 10!! Or maybe when Shmi married again, Lars snr already had a son...? Any ideas...??!!? -
Why can't you just accept that the vast majority of people like these films. They bring a little bit more happiness into otherwise dull days. Its good to get excited about seeing films such as AOTC. You say us fan boys can't explain what we liked about AOTC. Well, the story is complex and it works because it seamlessly blends the fall of the Republic with a love story (a little cheesy, but thats young love for ya ;-)) and allows a truly valid and once legend theory to be presented breathtakingly: the creation of the stormtroopers. The plot is never dull and the film never boring. The acting is quite good and the only reason dialogue seems to be horrible is because the characters are going through and intense time, and admitting feelings looks stressful. This goes to show that the ACTING IS GOOD. The confession to Padme by Anakin is powerful because he has just murdered a whole villiage of Tusken Raiders. Not one or two, a whole tribe. Now, talkbackers, when was the last time you did something as savage as this. The confession is powerful because he looks and sounds like he really means what he is saying. His last line is particularly uncomfortable to watch, and you'll know what I mean IF YOU'VE SEEN THE FILM. I'm sorry for all you naysayers and boycotters, because you were looking for this film to be absolutely perfect, but it does have some flaws. The primary one is that the film is TOO DAMN SHORT. It could have easily been 3 hours long. General Custer, you seem to be leading these people. All that I can say is I pity you because you come across like a spoilt brat. Although you did say you were only 12, so that makes sense. AOTC is not perfect, 9/10. A damn good film if you ask me, but because it isn't perfect General Custer and his gang presume that it is awful. I truly pity you.
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May 27, 2002 9:52:59 AM CDT
Jesus Christ, generalcuster, do you want me to write a friggin b
by sea bass
Fine. The story was 'incredible' because it was so intricate. None of the naysayers that I've spoken to fully understand it. It easily has a more complex plot than any big blockbuster movie in the last year. I think that is a selling point for people who actually want to think about a movie afterwards. It's more than just a by the number comic book story or a 3 hour chase scene. It's a story full of characters who are complex, whose paths cross around an intricate plot to take over the galaxy. The love story was 'tragic' because without even knowing that Anakin is going to become Vader, you know that this romance is doomed. You can see that both of them are making the wrong decisions and are headed for disaster. The performances make you care about the characters and that makes it a twice as interesting love story than the usual summer movie fare. The most 'powerful' scene was Anakin's confession to Padme. The dialogue, the performances, the music, all work to create a scene that shows exactly what makes Anakin turn to the dark side and what makes Padme drawn to him despite this. Again, a scene that's a step above the usual summer movie fare. I'm not trying to convince anyone to see this movie. But to dismiss it as another cheesy SW film is simply being ignorant or refusing to look beyond the FX.
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A simple question for fans. Gl is rich beyond his wildest imaginings. SW is a killer franchise, guarranteed money.
Why then did GL not make the PG-13, 3 hr films so clearly needed to bring this story to coherent life? The market was there for it [ see LOTR]. -
TPM wouldn't have worked as well with Anakin as a teen. We had to have one movie where Anakin is a completly innocent child. It's the same reason why we had to have one whole movie where the republic was strong (if starting to fail) and the galaxy was at total peace (with the exception of the Naboo invasion). The Jedi were respected and unchallenged (until Maul's wake up call), and Palpatine was a mere senator. That's why a lot of people didn't like it, because it was nothing like the OT. There were no galaxy wide conflicts and everything is neat and pristine. Same with Anakin........ As for having too much to do in Episode III, I don't think so. Your list was a long one but much of what you listed either doesn't have to be seen on screen or would only take a minute to explain. Do we really need to see Yoda flying to and settling on Dagobah? How long would it take to show the droids' memories being erased? Or the children being born? Look at how much got done in Episode II. The separists are introduced, Padme is a senator, Obi Wan and Anakin's relationship is established, Anakin makes his first huge turn to the dark side, He and Padme marry, the clones are introduced, a lot of Jedi die, the imperial war machine is built, clones introduced, and Palpatine is practically an emperor. So we have the empire and Anakin almost turned and everyone's fate is pretty much sealed. There's really not all that much left when you think about it. Don't worry, it'll work out fine.
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Ignore that last post. At least someone on this talkback has sense. I agree with you. General Custer can't look by special effects. His real name is Jack, by the way. So Custer and his phonies can all claim to hate Star Wars, but they probably aren't smart enough to fully appreciate the story and themes of Episode II. Remember, General Custer is only 12 years old. I love AOTC, its great. The kids may not be able to follow the politics easily, but they can relate to the romance and action. But us adults can appreciate the impending doom. As for the person saying why wasn't AOTC made a PG-13. In my opinion, it was pretty damn close. How many other Star Wars films have beheadings, especially ones as striking as Jango Fett. I felt kinda sorry for the guy. He is (was) a father and a bounty hunter. The Empire Strikes Back beheading doesn't count, cause it wasn't real.
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May 27, 2002 11:49:58 AM CDT
SEABASS: You made some very valid points and I respect your opin
by jaimie kanwar
...I have to disagree with a number of the things you highlighted. For a start it seems that you point blank refuse to see anything negative at all about AOTC. There ar undoubtedly flaws to the film...it is not perfect by any means. I think TPM would work perfectly well without Anakin as a kid...surely a teenager can evoke innocence as well? Luke Skywalker was presented as pretty naive and impetuous n ANH...that worked. I just feel the Anakin's character would have been given more depth with an older actor; Jake Lloyd provided zero depth, nothing to really allow the viewer to hook into the character. Thus we (I) feel no connection at all to Anakin Skywalker until AOTC, by which time, it is too late because the audience needs time to absorb the character over the 3 films to really appreciate the magnitude of his fall to the dark side. Having one actor portray Anakin in all 3 movies would have, in my opinion, served as a unifying emotional thread. Imagine if Luke or Han had been played by different actors in ANH...the dramatic impact of their trials and tribulations would have been severely dampened I believe. Same with Anakin Skywalker. The memory of Jake Lloyd will always be there...affecting the way we perceive older Anakin. I agree with you that many things were achieved in EP 2...but at what cost? The Love story was not involving, convincing or even credible. You state that the storyline itself is complex and it is (admirably so) but many of the specifics of the story are purely functional rather than imaginative. GL is not interested in plot or character (Lawrence Kasdan -- direct Quote) that is self evident...so it's as if he gets ideas down and is like" well x, y and z have to happen" but then instead of thinking the story strand through...he just comes up with a purely functional sequence to satisfy the demands of the story...hence the terrible love story " anakin and padme must get together...so lets just do this" kind of attitude instead of really thinking about it and making it work. Same with the Tuscan raider scene...good idea but purely functional...not developed enough. You state that Anakin takes his "first turn to the darkside" and "is almost turned" For me, this is just not the case. By the end of the film, he is nowhere near the dark side...and if GL expects us to believe he is, then I don't buy it. So he slaughtered a few tuscans...argued with Obi Wan a couple of times...so what. How does this constitute being almost turned to the darkside...? This most vital aspect of Anakin's character was not take far enough...it was too tame and by the end of AOTC Anakin has not been turned enough...that is why if, in the next EP there is a sudden shift (as he turns to the dark side) it will not be believable because in AOTC he was nowhere near...to expect the audience to believe that Anakin has gone from Jedi Apprentice to almost turning to the dark side in 2 hours is too much...we needed to see his gradual progression over time (including EP 1) to really appreciate it. From innocence to almost evil in 1 movie just doesn't work on a deeper, more emotional level. You state that the love story is "tragic". Whatever tragic undertones there are to the relationship are undermined and negated by the sheer awfulness of the way the love story is handled. No conflict, no real sense of falling in love, just cliche after cliche after cliche. The action is static, boring and uninspiring...even my girfriend who is so romantic I can't stand it (!) found it pukeworthy and unbelievable! That section of the film should have been the emotional base upon which everything else is built. Horrible scenes such as the fireplace and field scenes and the dream scenes destroy all that and negate any epic or tragic proportions that may have been there. You also state that because we "care about the cahracters" that makes the love story "more interesting". Hayden Christensen does a good job, so I agree for him, but he is defeated by the setting and the dialogue -- truly mawkish and terrible. As for Natalie Portman...the one and only time she radiates any warmth at all (in my opinion) was the opening scene when her handmaided was killed. That was the one and only time I actually felt anything for her character. She is bland, robotic, monotonous at times and completely devoid of personality...no more evident than in the love story scenes, especially the fireplace scene. I've seen the film 3 times now and every time that scene makes me cringe...there's just zero emotion coming from her. I hate her in the role of Amidala...she brings nothing to it, which is a shame since she exhibited such promise in LEON. The fatal flaw in the love story though, which undermines anything it might have been trying to achieve (in my opinion) is Padme's declaration of Love before the arena. Based on what exactly?!? This is what I mean my GL's functional handling of certain story strands...most people react in the same way as I did: There is nothing to suggest how or why she fell in love!! It would have to be based on his ramblings about how "smooth" she is etc, which is barely credible. She falls in Love becuase he's handsome? Supremely shallow if that's the case...maybe kids would believe that but noone else. Because she met him once for a few hours 10 years before..? Do me a favour..!! Because she sympathises with him for killing an entire village of Tuscans...? I don't think so. GL may think these things are just rudimentary and not important, but that relationship in my opinion was THE central relationship to get right...and GL blew it. Some may argue that "they're young...it's young love" well I disagree...Iisn't padme supposed be at least 27 or something in this film...? That's not young teen love in my book. The love story just fails on every level except-the functional level: Story must have a love story...so we'll do this. Disappointing and severely damaged the film in my view. But as I said before...these are just my humble opinions -- Perhaps I analyse too much, but I think that paying fans have the right to expect more in certain story departments. After all, we are the idiots who pay countless amounts of money for version after veriosn of the OT on tape, cinema tickets, mercahdise etc...GL should spend as much time as he does counting the dollars on story development. As I stated before, I still believe there's too much to cram into EP 3 to make the audience really care...in that sense I mean because the thiongs we really care about...that have an emotional effect on us only really began in AOTC, there's not enough time to absorb the events and characters in EP3, unless GL makes it 3 hours+ which I really, truly hope he does. After all, does it matter at all if the film is 3 hours...? Everyone will still go and see it....GL doesn't have to worry about money surely...?!? He should concentrate on telling the story in the time it takes to be told...not on pleasing little kids wioth a 5 second attention span. One ominous thing for me though is this: The purported events which are meant to be turning Anakin to the dark side were pretty tame in AOTC (Tuscan Raider scene for example -- GL sold out to the kids) I just hop GL has the balls to make the obvious darkness to come in EP 3 really dark, and not some toned down, family friendly, G rated kidfest.
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I just read this entire board and no one makes mention of James Earl Jones doing any voice work in Episode III, although he is in the credits as of 10/1/2001 on the IMDB. I for one would crap my pants with glee to see the "creation/transformation" scene (shot from behind when the mask goes on, of course), followed by James Earl Jones bellowing his basso profundo lines with that signature inflection. The return of Darth Vader as we all knew him from Ep's IV-VI would be THE definitive moment of the third prequel. In fact, you can get really carried away imagining what a "young Vader" in full black costume would be capable of (remember, no one thought Yoda could kick ass...right?) I'll tell you what I am NOT interested in and that is some ambiguous ending that asks us to fill in all the blanks regarding Vader during a 20-year gap between III and IV. The villains are always more fun to love to hate, so I can't wait to see what George has in store for us with Vader, POST-transformation. Agree?
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Empire magazine in the UK ran this story by Lucas. The shot filmed during Ep. II production for Ep.III is NOT Obi-Wan delivering Luke to Owen, as neither Ewan McGregor, nor a baby were on set at the time. The real truth is that is was probably just an establishing shot. Oh, and Owen is Anakin's STEP-brother, not HALF-brother. He is not Shmi's son, he was already born when Shmi married Clieg Lars. Anakin and him are NOT blood-related.
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May 27, 2002 3:31:20 PM CDT
Why being critical of film actually helps good movies to be made
by necessary retard
I believe me and General Custer and the rest of the folks asking the tough questions, boycotting the series, and approaching Star Wars critically, are not doing these things just because we like to "bitch."
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Me personally, I'm doing it because Star Wars had and has such a major impact on movies, art, and pop culture. While it's easy to sit back and say "It's just a movie," if you're truthful to yourself about it, Star Wars is probably the biggest story of all time, reaching more people around the world than any other movie series. It's now a major part of American, if not world, culture. You don't have to be a fanboy to have heard the words "May the Force be with you." ---------
But even if you don't believe that, you have to admit Star Wars still sets the bar in many ways for the Hollywood film industry. Studios will look at how much Star Wars Ep. 2 made, then say to themselves "Wow! That's a lot of money. Lucas' films prove that moviegoers don't need story or character, so let's crank out some computer eye candy and they'll swallow it up."
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In brief: The Star Wars story has a huge impact on culture, entertainment, and what gets made in Hollywood. To just kick back and enjoy it is certainly your right. But to see very plainly what's wrong with what so many people are paying for, and to not speak out against it, would be a film lover's and a filmmaker's greatest failure. ---- Here's what I compare the Star Wars story to: I've been reading a great book, then I find out over half way through that it's a Harlequin romance. I don't need to read it anymore, even if it suddenly gets really good again. The story as a whole has been ruined. ---------
I'll respect your right to enjoy what this story has turned into, but please be a thinker and respect my right to defend filmmaking by attacking all that's wrong with it. -- B. Scott O'Malley -- aicn@anarchy101.com
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Yhe Day Episode 2 was released I watched the OT films and the Phantom Menace again . I had not watched them all together like that . I noticed some strange things .
1. the way Kenobi said .."I don't recall ever owning a droid " and when Luke was looking away he gave Artoo a look just for a slit second . Perhaps he was saying things from a point of view again .
2. In Empire on Dagoba right before Yoda appears Luke says " Something about this place seem's familure " Maybe Luke was on Dagoba before getting left on Tattoine
3. In Empire Vader slappes Boba Fetts hand down before Boba coyld fire his blaster a Chewbacca. C-3po was on Chewie's back . I urge you to watch that scene again . It speaks Volumes now .
4. I read in one of the Thrawn Trilogy books several years ago that the Dark side cave on Dagobah sheilded Yoda from the Empiror something about a Dark Jedi getting wacked there by some Jedi . This Positive / Negatve thing could be a resonable explination .
I hope that he see Vader in action exterminating the Jedi . Although I will be O.K. with it as long as I see Vader again .
After this I will try to be spoilor free ..if I can -
Luke comments in The Empire Strikes Back that "this place seems strangely familiar" while on Degobah.
Yoda is most likely the guardian of Luke for the first short while ("a long time have I watched this one...") and Ben gathers him up and takes him to Tatooine. The journey between the two worlds is likely what makes Luke so fascinated by the stars and space travel.
Padme is likely the guardian of Leia and dies midway between episodes three and four from a depression induced illness
("she died when I was very young" - Leia).
One thing I would like to see in the next movie is the Wookies enslaved and possibly the demonstration of (and I hate to say this because I don't want spoilers created off of this) a planetary bombardment as mentioned in Empire Strikes Back... I assume that Naboo is victimized by that and that that becomes the volcanic world upon which the final showdown takes place. -
....movie script ever released by a major studio. AOTC succeeded in reducing me almost to tears, alternately of laughter, at the ineptness and cringing, cliche-ridden nonsense of the dialogue, and sadness at the final passing of a brand (Which is what it is after all) that once represented something a bit classy within it's, admittedly limited, genre. The blatant borrowing from Blade Runner in the first twenty minutes was just about forgiveable (although some of the shots also recalled an artifically coloured, but not technically much improved, Metropolis)as it was at least visually diverting. When the turgid 'plot' settled down, however, it had me glancing at my watch more often than at any time since I sat through the last hour of The Rock. The graveside, Monument Valley bit was a sickening insult to John ford. Christopher Lee surely doesn't need the money by now, so why did he indulge in the Dracula spoof (complete with gothic castle)? Some of the effects work was breathtaking, but ultimately undermined by the 'so what?' element engendered by the appalling script and excrutiating acting. Even some of the effects were terminally naff. Why does Obi-Wan's pre-X-Wing ship thingy look in close-up like it's made of plywood badly painted in cheap matt emulsion? A thoroughly dispiriting experience all round.
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And you're tired of hearing about the Generation X'ers Star Wars. You want a movie series of your own to grow up with so you attack star wars without even undersatnding it. I didn't say that there was nothing wrong with the film. I just tried to balance out all the blind negativity here. But it falls on deaf ear because AOTC could be the greatest movie you ever saw and you still couldn't allow yourself to like it. Maybe when you grow up.
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Did anyone notice that it's actually palpatine that suggests that obiwan and his apprentice be thrusted the guarding of padme. I bet he's foreseen the romance between anakin and her. That romance that will cause a rift between anakin and the jedi. Anakin will be thrown out of the order and go become a starpilot in the war.
Some have speculated that Padme dies giving birth. But this doesn't fit with leia saying in ROTJ that she remembers her mom as being very beautiful and very sad. Padme goes to alderaan with leia while luke is hidden on tatooine by obiwan.
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