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AICN COMICS: The Comedian Reviews X-FORCE 126!!

Hey, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab.

Some of you seem to think that we only accept reviews from Andrew and the fine folks over at Gray Haven, but that's not true. Anyone who wants to take a stab at the comics reviews for us is welcome, just like with movie or TV reviews. We welcome your contributions. Hell, we depend on them. This has always been about making sure that voices get heard.

On that note, here's a review that, for one reason or another, came directly to me. It's from long time Talk-Backer The Comedian, a good guy out of New York who we've known for a while now. Here's his look at a new book on stands now:

X-FORCE #126

Written by Peter Milligan & Illustrated by Mike Allred

Published by Marvel Comics

Reviewed by The Comedian

Well, here we are nearly a year since Joe Q decided to ditch the Not-So-New Mutants so that Milligan & Allred could give birth to everyone's favorite "Junior-Justice-League-of-Wrong-Headed-Miscreants" and I will scream out with pride at the top of my lungs that X-FORCE STILL ROCKS YOUR FUCKING HOUSE DOWN. Sure, it's not a big action book and they've only had one decent villain (The Coach) but other than those and a few other minute flaws X-Force is in my opinion in a dead heat with The Incredible Hulk as the best book Marvel is putting out right now. For grown ups, anyway. I don't really need to get into the why's and how's because they've already been discussed to death. Those of you out there that 'get it' love it. The whining minority still writing in hate mail demanding the return of Sam Guthrie & Co. still don't 'get it' and probably never will. Over the past ten issues we've seen a virtual revolving door of misfits hoping to cash in on their powers and make it in the "big time". Just about every other issue a new X-Forcer is introduced and each and every one of them has been more three-dimensional and compelling than any of the Not-So-New Mutants or even in some cases Jean, Scott, Logan and the "Varsity Team" themselves. HOWEVER, I have picked up on a pattern of Allred's. A dirty little secret if you will that has become blatantly obvious with issue #126. He's taking some of his Oni Press/AAA Pop characters and recycling them as Marvel mutants. Which is fine since they're his characters and he can do whatever the hell he wants with them. I'll give some proofs to this hypothesis in a little bit but first here's the obligatory plot summary.

X-Force # 126 is the second part in a storyline that will end in the death of one of the Big Three (Edie, Tike and Guy). The current team comprised of U-Go-Girl, The Anarchist, The Orphan, Doop, Phat, Vivisector, The Spike and new member MadGir..I mean, Dead Girl have been sent into space on a bogus mission against fake aliens. They've been told to throw the mission and purposely lose so that a team of C.I.A. goons can come in and hot dog for the cameras. If that weren't bad enough, they've also got to think up a new name for their team because Spike Freeman doesn't feel like paying royalties to the original founder's anymore (This is of course a riff on Marvel wanting to cut Rob Liefield out of the gravy train and there's an added layer of irony because that jackass Spike Freeman is drawn to resemble Liefield.) We learn that Vivisector and Phat have developed "special feelings" for each other, Tike & The Spike still hate each other and Edie is still in some way pining for Zeitgeist. But all these superfluous subplots take a back seat to the action involving the team's encounters with the "aliens" who are really former Texas death row inmates who have been genetically turned into shape shifting energy blasting mutants by the Govt. As well as the origin and inner demons of the teams newest member MadGir….I mean, Dead Girl. Dead Girl is a mutant whose powers are pretty straight forward. She's a zombie. She can't be killed. She's dead already so every time she's killed again her body simple puts itself back together. She bullshits Edie & Tike into believing that she can communicate with the dead but it's really a front because she doesn't even know what the hell she is. Her pale white-bluish skin, grayish-black hair and bulgy white eyes will remind you of a certain Snap City hero we all know and love. Not to mention her "undead angst". As far as her origin goes, we find out that she was a dime a dozen aspiring actress who came to NYC to start up a theater career and ended up murdered at the hands of some pretty boy, Ted Bundy/Robert Chambers wannabe from her acting class. By the end of the issue Dead Girl has saved the Anarchist's life. The Spike has turned traitor. And the wounded, delirious half asleep imaginary girlfriend we all wish we had, Edie Sawyer thinks up the best suggestion for a new team name yet. "X-Men! Our new name! X-men! It's the perfect name for a group of mutants with the X-Gene! X-Men!…zzzzzzz".

As far as Dead Girl's blatant similarities to Madman, I don't mind all that much. She may not have "the touch" like ol'Frank Einstein but they do have the whole "I've been brought back from the dead and now I'm a blue skinned, angst filled, zombie freak" thing in common. I mean look at her on the cover or even her first appearance in #125 before Allred decided to make her bluer. Put an electrified exclamation point on her chest and she could be Frank Einstein's hot female cousin with similar powers (like Hulk & Supes). Of course I wouldn't have noticed so much if Allred hadn't already pulled this with The Orphan who's basically a doppelganger of The Atomics leader Metal Man only with completely opposite powers (The Orphan wears his suit and helmet to protect himself from the outside world while Metal Man wears his get-up to protect the outside world from himself.) Still, I don't mind that much and truth be told if it weren't for this spectacular run on X-Force I would never have picked up back issues of Madman or The Atomics in the first place. Ain't I just the indie comics poser. Hell, maybe this will start a trend. Maybe DC can hire Nick Bertozi to work on a New Titans book and then he can replace the old team with clones of The Incredible Drinking Buddies.

What I like about this issue and most issues of X-Force is that Milligan and Allred are fantastic when it comes to fleshing out their characters and giving them complex, concrete origins. The characters and their internal conflicts take precedence over big action and giant sized superhero plotting. This new storyline and the satirical elements of the book are all going along like a well-oiled machine. The subplot with Phat & Vivisector turning out to be "buddies" is out of left field but I think they're really not gay and just faking it so that they can "stick out, have an edge, and shake thing up" like Spike Freeman advised them to do back during the Lacuna storyline. That would be a perfect satire of Gay today, straight tomorrow media whores like Anne Heche. Tike and The Spike's rivalry is running it's course and even though we have been set up to root for The Anarchist I'm finding that all Tike's worrying and complaining are revealing him indeed to be a crotchety old woman. The Anarchist is shedding all the layers of pretense and cockiness that we saw in the first few issues. And while I'm rooting for him and loving the multi-layered characterization whammy that Milligan is doing on him I'd really like to see Tike just suck it up and kick some ass. This new "see who dies" storyline at first glimpse seems like they're running out of ideas. But if you look at this entire run one of the major themes has always been "Death as the Ultimate Price of Fame". Even after the first arc where Zeitgeist, the previous team, Rainbow and Saint Anna took the dirt nap it was still a major theme. They wouldn't let Lacuna join because she didn't understand that risk. And in Edie's origin issue we see that even she fears death and doesn't reveal her true identity to her daughter because she wouldn't want to break her heart should she die in action. So by killing one of these three characters we've grown to love Milligan and Allred are wrapping up their first year and bring it full circle. Sadly enough, my money's on Edie Sawyer. From what I've heard, issue #129 is going to be the final issue of X-Force and Milligan & Allred's Hollywood mutants will re-launch in yet another different direction with X-STATICS #1 in July. Which is kind of like when Liefield relaunched The New Mutants as X-Force. Here's to knowing that this time around it's actually worth the trouble.


Readers Talkback
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  • April 11, 2002, 10:01 p.m. CST

    oh, and also...

    by maxwell's hammer

    ...what is a good website where one can find tv ads? I've got a student who totally idolizes Mia Hamm, and I'm trying to find for her a site where she can view Hamm's various commercials. Thanks to anyone who can help.

  • April 12, 2002, 2:41 a.m. CST

    Good job Comedian.

    by vroom socko

    You should write up more of these. Just keep sending 'em straight here. If you sent writing this good to GrayHaven, they might decide to fire my pathetic ass.

  • April 12, 2002, 3:13 a.m. CST

    Thanks Vroom & Actually...

    by thecomedian

    I sent this review along with my High Roads review to Andrew @ Grayhaven and he said that he couldn't post the X-Force review on their site and he didn't send it to Harry and Drew either because he thought it was too long. Plus he thought the use of profanity (ei. cuss words)was unprofessional. He said " Many times, reviews are picked up by publishers for catalogues and their web sites. They will just ignore anything that comes off as unprofessional (which includes profanity)". What a dipshit. I couldn't really give a shit wheter or not Marvel would want to use my reviews to sell more comics. Seriously Vroom, they ain't paying you for your time and effort and I'm sick of their Sugar Plums & Lollipops bullshit as far as no negative reviews. What's say we get the Screaming Retina's/Talkback League of @$$holes together and WE TAKE OVER AICN COMICS AND WRITE THE REVIEWS OURSELVES. Think about it, we could alternate and each week 2 or three of us could write the reviews and send them to Harry & Drew and then we could have those supercool talkbacks like the old days. Think of the possibilities, Superninja could review Captain America #1. Buzz could review the remainder of Howard The Duck. Cormorant could do Superman. Let's do it! Screw the middleman.

  • Dude, I think Supes is the greatest embodiment of pure heroism ever created, but I just don't *feel* that way about him, y'dig? 'Sides, I haven't read Superman comics since Byrne left. Well, except for that one where Supes beat the holy hell out of those Authority analogues, but that was pretty much a one-shot. Oh, but getting back to what you were actually saying, I must admit the hostile takeover of AICN Comics has a certain appeal to it. I don't have a big problem with GrayHaven, but the reason I came to AICN in the first place was because it was a fun venue for reviewers and Talkbackers to "tell it like it is", no holds barred and nothing censored. And I miss those rough and tumble days. Sure as hell made the Talkbacks lively, anyway. Of course, I've been too busy to do much reviewing of late, but I may yet find time to send in a few independent reviews per your suggestion. I didn't realize AICN was accepting outside funnybook reviews, or I mighta thrown in my ballbusting two cents on the not-too-cool first issue of THE ULTIMATES (though ironically, I'm really digging subsequent issues). By the by, that was a nice bit of reviewing there, and I have to say the unfettered style is a breath of fresh air. I'll be honest -- since I stopped actively doing reviews for GrayHaven, I only tend to skim them when new ones go up, and I don't think I've been really influenced by any of 'em. No offense to good guys like Vroom and Elliot Kane, but like I said, it's the uncensored reality I come to AICN for, and the GrayHaven style ends up coming across a little too much like promotional copy for an ad. Well, my reviews did, anyway. Comedian's review stands as the first comic review I've hit at AICN in quite some time that really, honestly made me curious about a book. See, I'd dropped X-FORCE because I was getting the feeling the satire was a little too lightweight, but the profane Comedian here has me curious to give it another shot because of his unrestrained overview. Fascinating, huh? ******** Oh, but Comedian -- I can't believe you were so googily-eyed about HIGH ROADS. I flipped through that first issue, and it was pretty enough, but the dialogue had all the wit of one of those third-rate Tarantino knock-off flicks that proliferated throughout the 90's. But...weren't you the one who actually championed Claremont's X-TREME X-MEN too? Hmm, maybe I should take your X-FORCE review with a few more grains of salt ;-) On a related note, didn't we have some kind of bet going about the ULTIMATE universe from back when it was in its nascent stage? I do believe you were convinced it would have folded by now, and while the weak link in the chain (ULTIMATE TEAM-UP) is going out of business, the major league players show no signs of dropping out of the top ten. Would it be mean-spirited if I were to point at you and laugh? Maybe, but I'm doing it anyway. In your face, sucka! Bwahahahah! Seriously though, have you ever given ULTIMATE X-MEN another chance? It's got its flaws, but some of the early weaknesses (lack of concrete characterization) have been mended, and the book is kicking some serious booty right now. You really should give it another go, just as I'm gonna do with X-FORCE.

  • While I was bwahaha-ing at Comedian for his utter failure to recognize the ULTIMATE line for the powerhouse it is, I was reminded of the wonky 80's JLI comics that popularized that particular brand of mocking laughter...and reminded of the six-issue follow-up that's going to be hitting some time (presumably) this very year! Hey, I may not have the mad love that some folks here do for the JLI, but I must confess I'm hyped to see the entire creative team reunite for a last hurrah (or perhaps a new beginning?). More info to be found here: Say, is Guy Gardner still considered to be dead following "Our Worlds at War"? That'd be a shame, because the JLI just won't be the same without the King of Assholes. C'mon, they've revived everyone *else* from that silly crossover -- what's one more?

  • April 12, 2002, 8:58 a.m. CST

    numbered comments

    by rev_skarekroe

    1) Good review, but man, it was almost as long as the book itself! 2) Whatever happened to Viggo Mortenson playing Madman? 3) Cormorant, Guy Gardner is apparently alive and not-particularly-well in the Superman books. But I haven't actually READ them so you'll have to get your details elsewhere. 4) If Kevin Smith kills off Connor Hawke I'm going to be pretty pissed off. sk

  • April 12, 2002, 9:39 a.m. CST

    X-Force rocks, X-Treme X-Men sucks the big one

    by WillardEisenbaum

    I'm enjoying the hell out of X-Force. I love the art and any lame fanboy who thinks Allred's art is too lame or retro should just stick to Steroid-Squad hero comix. X-Force is a good companion piece to Doom Patrol, they kind of remind me of each other. I'm writing to bash Chris Claremont, since it came up in a previous talkback, man I fuckn HATE X-Treme X-Men. What a hippy-dippy new age setup he always has going on, everything's always going thru a crystal to get to another dimension, the Australia characters are bullshit, I just totally despise it and I feel like a dumbass for buying it. Also the art looks too pencilly, I like Salvador Larocca's style and everything but hey, it's called ink. thank goodness for New X-Men, the Hulk, Wolverine and a few other bright spots. So until it all sucks, Make Mine Marvel!

  • April 12, 2002, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Christ what happened

    by DannyOcean01

    Haven't touched X-Force since just after X-cutioners Song , years back. Where's Cannonball, Boomer, Feral, Shatterstar, Thunderhawk (sp?) and best of all Cable leading them with new costumes in tow. Christ I loved those characters. Also who is The Anarchist and what can he do. God I'm too old to still care.

  • April 12, 2002, 9:43 a.m. CST


    by Lannister

    finally a review with some backbone, and yes Comedian I agree with your ideas of doing the reviews cause GrayHavens mostly suck. I've gone to my local comics shop and looked at some of the books they say "dont miss"...what a joke. I guess we just have different tastes, as I feel like most of the reviewers over at GH (not all) are the kind that "doesn't get it" and wants "Sam Guthrie and co" to come back. It's indicative of larger problem with comics fanboys...closed minds and overly judgemental to change, and comics are changing, of that there is no doubt. And I for one think that the change is for the better. I love some of the stuff Marvel is doing under Quesada's shadow, and all the indie stuff out there. Anyway I'm rambling, but when I get over to Comic Empire and go thru my stack I'm gonna post some reviews and then everyone can tell me how bad I suck. he he.

  • April 12, 2002, 12:26 p.m. CST


    by maxwell's hammer

    Relijah, Thanks for qualifying your opinion by telling us you think Romita Jr.'s art sucks on Spider Man. Now we know that you're opinion carries as much weight as a plastic sack full of helium. oh, and my opinion is better than other people's

  • April 12, 2002, 12:41 p.m. CST

    I'm Always Up For A Hostile Takeover...Or A Hostile Anything

    by Buzz Maverik

    Great review, Comedian -- great writing and great fucking profanity. I'll review HOWARD THE DUCK. It's great! And it has great fucking profanity! And the last one made fun of Witchblade (Howard became the weilder of the Doucheblade and grew big honkin' breasts, making Bev jealous -- also, he wouldn't stop the violence until it got gratuitous enough). Now, as many of you know, I make my living brutalizing members of the Taliban and Al Queda held at Guantanamo when the Marines get too squeamish, so natuarlly Wednesdays are big work days for me. I'm flown down there, I do my thing, slip over to the enemy side to buy some cigars, then fly home. So I get my comics on Thursdays. Yesterday, I picked up THE ESSENTIAL MARVEL TEAM UP and THE ESSENTIAL SPIDER-MAN VOL. 5. Lots of Spidey stuff for the upcoming movie (did you guys know they made a Spider-Man movie?). I was questioning TEAM UP because I generally remember those as throwaways (not that any of us have ever thrown away a comic book in their lives)but they hold up pretty well, with decent villains. I started reading Spider-Man when Ross Andru was the artist (he does great panels) and there's some good stuff by him and Gil Kane. Lots of MORBIUS THE LIVING VAMPIRE as a villain. I've decided to make a MORBIUS film starring Steve Buscemi. All I need is the rights, some money, a distributor and Steve Buscemi. One of you can write the script. I'm thinking Sundown because he's into vampire comics but I don't know if he still talkbacks so I'll accept all submissions and probably cobble it together with the actors on the set. Here's the scenario: we all know about Morbius and his babe girlfriend Martine (I'm thinking Milla Jovovich because her career's pretty much in the crapper so we could afford her and wouldn't you get a kick out of Jovovich as Buscemi's girlfriend?) and does anybody remember Morbius' nemesis, police detective Simon Stroud? No. Great. Get to writing. Anyway, haven't started the ESSENTIAL SPIDER-MAN but it appears to be getting into the less essential issues, although by the end, we're looking at Gerry Conway's writing and I think Andru's art, which is almost where I came in, so I'll probably continue with the Essentials up to the end of the Jackal story (which introduced our beloved clones!).

  • April 12, 2002, 1 p.m. CST

    Gerry Conway scripts the occasional Law & Order

    by Strawhenge

    I'm assuming it's the same guy. Am I wrong? The Conway/Andru era of Spider-Man, that takes me back. In addition to the great Jackyl/Gwen storyline, you get the Spider-Mobile, Aunt May's near-marriage to Doc Ock ("With this ring, I thee...WEB?!"), and Harry Osbourne's first outing as the Goblin. There are also some great one-shot crime/mystery/thrillers such as "Whodunit?" and "The Longest Hundred Yards" which sort of foreshadow the kinds of stories Conway currently writes for Law & Order. As far as Team-Up goes, my favorites were in the Claremont/Byrne run. Where these guys found the extra creative energy each month after putting X-men together is beyond me. Dazzling stuff for its day.

  • April 12, 2002, 4:02 p.m. CST

    X-Force Review

    by Darkwind

    I guess I'm one of those who just doesn't get it and hate what has become of this book. I guess that fits because I love Xtreme X-Men and Exiles. This book should have never been called X-Force and I am glad it will be retitled soon. I have only continued to keep colecting it for continuity sake. I have read X-Force since it began as New Mutants and this book is a depraved parody and has little to do with the Marvel Universe. Having read Comics for over 35 years I've seen alot of trends come and go. I loved the funny trend the Justice League took with JLI, but left DC after the Bat/Bane/Azrael mess. I appreciate the formation of Image and the stand for creator rights. I don't mind the independents and realize they satisfy a small percentage of the overall comic buying public (I don't consider Image or Dark Horse to be independents - they have grown too large and adhere to mainstream rules - cursing is ok, but no nudity - even Marvel's Max line is breaking that rule). But X-Force is an attempt to put independent focus into Marvel's outlook and the 2 visions don't work well together. I can appreciate Cage's new look at Luke Cage, but here we haven't left the Marvel Universe as X-Force has. Even the requisite Wolverine appearance doesn't make this more of a Marvel book, just shows how long Wolvie has been around and how he has met everyone from most comic universe's. If it's an inside joke then the joke is too esoteric for the general masses, like "No Soap Radio". Other than the non Marvel storyline, the art is a major let down for me and reminds me of the worst of Marvel remember Frank Springer? Ladronn? Need I go on? Don't get me wrong - I love Marvel and have nearly 15,000 comics to prove it, what I love most is good story and art. Sergio Argones can tell a fun parody story without it being an inside joke understandable to a few, why can't Milligan? Either who - this book should never have been changed into this non Marvel, non X book!

  • April 12, 2002, 4:10 p.m. CST

    Comedian, seriously, you kick the mighty ass! YES! Take over fro

    by superhero

    Man am I glad I checked this article out! I've made it a point to STAY away from the AICN comics articles because of their pathetic, wrong headed views about only reviewing "good" books. I love this site for its insane talkbacks and for the fact that every once in a while someone will post a review that tells it like it is and the comic forum here had just become utterly depressing. While I do appreciate the good Greyhaven's trying to do I was so dumbfounded as to how he could believe that only recommending "good" books was helping comics out in any way, shape, or form or how he thought that policy could make this column or his website relevant to the medium that is comics. Thanks to you guys who are recommending a takeover. I really hope you achieve it and can help make the AICN comics column a bit more interesting and multi-dimensional than those guys at Grayhaven have. I mean, when you go into a talkback and see, what, like two or three guys in the whole thing posting and re-posting that's gotta tell you something right? Like no one gives a crap about your column because it's TEPID! As far as that site goes...well the whole example about why they rejected Comedian's review is a perfect example of what that site is...a bunch of comic book sychophants who "love" comics SO much that they think they are doing something good by writnig free press releases for the stuff that they like and claiming that they are reviewing it. Well, my opinion doesn't matter much but it has just bugged the S#!T out of me that those clowns are the ones in charge of writing comic reviews for a site that SO many people go and check out day after day. In any case, YES, please take over! Oh, and thanks to Moriarty for doing the right thing and posting Comedian's great (if fould mouthed) review! Oh, and if you guys do take over get rid of Grayhaven's HORRIBLE ratings system! Did they actually think that "Highly Recommended" and "Recommended" were good gauges of comic literature? Puh-lease...!

  • April 12, 2002, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Greyhaven Vs. The Comedian

    by Darkwind

    I do not want to see an end to Greyhaven's reviews, but I do agree that the reviews are too goody goody. To be of service to all, we need to see reviews of all comics - good and bad - and encourage discussion on the merits of both. We need a variety of viewpoints to enliven this site and get more lively talkbacks going on. I love comics, movies, and television (yes, I am a geek with litle to no life), but find the only spirited talk back's seem to be occuring on the highly anticipated movie posts. Greyhaven - Good reviews, but narrow focus, add reviews of books you don't like so we can get a better feeling for what you do and don't like (knowing only what you like keeps us guessing as to what you don't like), rate books from 0 - 5 (hate - love). Comedian - Other viewpoints are what makes the world interesting, we don't have to agree to get along, just knowing that there are other comic readers with varying viewpoints ensures the continued future of the medium. All of us staying together, to review what we love, and letting the publishers know it, can only be a good thing! and hopefully result in growth for all - better comics, movies, and television! For these all come from the same two things - better writing and a rabid fan base!

  • April 12, 2002, 4:34 p.m. CST

    In Which I Propose A Ranking System For Our Screaming Retina Rev

    by Buzz Maverik

    1) HIGHLY RECOMMENDED -- readers should buy 12 copies of these books. This ranking is reserved for comics where the Retinas stand to benefit financially. 2)BUY THIS OR DIE -- A really good book that fans should buy. 3)YOU WON'T PUKE -- An okay book. 4)YOU WILL PUKE -- self explanatory. 5)READ IT IF YOU WANT TO, IT'S YOUR LIFE, BUT YOU'LL WANT TO SHOVE NEEDLES IN YOUR EYES -- a book that is of lower quality than we can safely recommend. 6)THIS CREATIVE TEAM SHOULD BE USED FOR CHUM -- Books so bad that the artists and writers should be taken down to Florida and used to lure sharks.

  • April 12, 2002, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Buzz Maverick's Ratings

    by Darkwind

    Great rating system! But it must be balanced against the types who read comics: Comic Lovers (Long time readers of a variety of titles) Comic Enthusiasts (Short time to on again off again readers) Comic Admirers (readers and non readers who read an occasional book or watch a cartoon) Comic Speculators (those who buy and don

  • April 12, 2002, 5:09 p.m. CST

    The only reason I'm not reading this book is because I picke

    by Sod Off Baldric

    And I really hate missing out on parts of a story, especially one as complex as the new X-Force seems to be. However, that's where trade-paperbacks come in...and as soon as I have an extra $20 to drop, I'm gonna get caught up on this series. My comics budget just keeps getting more and more out of hand lately!

  • April 12, 2002, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Oh other thing...

    by Sod Off Baldric

    Since we're taking over the AICN Comics column, can I do the JSA and Black Panther reviews please? I know I'm relatively new, but I know my comics. Gimme a shot, guys!

  • April 12, 2002, 5:36 p.m. CST

    Challenge to GreyHaven

    by Darkwind

    In further review of this site's comic reviews and the talkbacks generated I find that I agree that AICN needs to be spiced up with better comic reviews. The Comedian's review has shown this to be more true than ever! I feel the reviews need to cover the full range of comics, not just those GreyHaven likes, but to include comics liked and hated by a wide majority of comic readers. I also feel a better rating system (like the one proposed by Buzz Maverick) is needed to show readers what other readers think is good and bad

  • April 12, 2002, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Bug on Comics

    by Ambush Bug

    Congrats, Comedian, for making it up top in the bold print. Good review. I have to say that X-Force is a pretty cool read. As previously mentioned in this talkback and many others, this is not the first time a comic book has focused on the inner fightings of a team of heroes. JLI did it to perfection. Quantum and Woody comes to mind. The interaction between the characters is what makes these comics different from your typical 22 page slugfest and it is about time that Marvel realized this mmm say about fifteen years later with X-Force. I must say, Comedian, you got moxie. I have always thought that the Retinas united would be a team supreme to be reckoned with. I'm in for a hostile Grayhaven takeover at AICN. Moving on to completely unrelated issues. I have to say that the new Tigra miniseries has actually suprised me. I know. I know. This West Coast Avenger hottie has been ignored for a while. She's not necessarily superstar hero material deserving of her own series (personally, I don't like hairy women), but any character in the right hands has a chance to be golden and this is about as golden as Tigra is going to get. Christina Z wrote it. Mike Deodato Jr. drew it and I read it and enjoyed it. Deodato's new work resembles the old moody Colan Tomb of Dracula stuff and the writing is pretty mature without getting all MAXxed out. There are some cool moments between Tigra and Captain America and quite a bit of blood and grue for a mainstream comic. After the toilet paper miniseries Marvel published revolving around the X-characters last year, I was about to vow that I would never pick up another mini again from Marvel, but this mini series and the interesting Taskmaster mini have given me faith that not all of Marvel's miniseries are done by chimps. I am also extremely happy with the return of Guy Gardner. His needless one panel death was just the tip of the iceberg of the problems I had with OWAW. Guy needs to get some respect and get another series of his own to be an ass in. I would love to see a Green Arrow/Guy GArdner team up. Since Hawkman and GA are buddy buddy now a days, I think a brawl between the ultra-Conservative Guy and the uber-Liberal Ollie would be an interesting story to read. Bad segue alert. Speaking of Ollie, if Kevin Smith kills COnner Hawke there will be hell to pay. Conner has been one of the most original characters to come out of the DCU in recent years. Chuck Dixon created a character as interesting and different as Ollie in Connor. Smith's complete mishandling of the character in the recent series has made me scream at the book at times. It would be a shame that some tubby bastard who lacks the ability to write a decent ending to anything would think he has the clout to wipe out a fan favorite character just because he needed a shockeroo ending. Viva el Connor Hawke! Adios, mis agigos. AICNComics y Los Retinos son muy spectacular! Nacho bell grande! Frito Lay! Bug out.

  • April 12, 2002, 7:04 p.m. CST

    Suggested ratings system

    by Ambush Bug

    I like Buzz's ratings system, but feel the need to chuck out my own. Let's see, how about a five tier system. #1.CRAP YOUR PANTS SPECTACULARIFFICALLY SMURFY - Highest possible rating reserved only for those comics you like so much that you read them on the ride home from the comic store or, if you are a glutton for punishment, save for last to read. #2. GRAVY - Good stuff that one might collect regularly or recommend to friends who may make fun of you because you collect comics simply for the off chance that they might realize that comics can indeed be cool. It's not good, it's gravy. #3. EHHHH (accompanied by an iffy shaking hand gesture) - Middle ground stuff. Not great. Mid story arc kind of stuff you find if you collect a title and they are in between good creators at the moment. 4. POOPY POTTY STUFF - The kind of comic that one reads while dropping off the kids at the pool. Some comics are read just to pass the time. That is their only redeeming value. If you are stuck in traffic, waiting for your frilly underthings to dry in the laundry room, or weathering the effects of that lethal scotch and chili cheese burrito combo from the night before, this comic does the trick. #5. The fifth and final rating should represent all that is evil and wrong with comics. It should embody the opposite of what it is that gets us to go into the comic shops in the first place. It should typify an affront to the very essence of what we all know to be good graphic sequential art. Let's call this final tier...AZRAEL.

  • April 12, 2002, 7:58 p.m. CST

    Screaming Retinas vs Gray Haven, and little ol' me stuck in

    by vroom socko

    Conflict, conflict. On the one hand, I'm the founder and leader of the Retinas, the elite trashtalkers of the TB's. On the other, GHM's been good to me, I've corresponded with a favorite creator or two because of them, and I have a project coming from them I did for Free Comics Day. Still, The call of the Retinas draws me; I crave to trashtalk DK2, Mark Millar, and Avengers: Celestial Quest. I'm torn... torn...

  • April 12, 2002, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Thanks for he support...

    by thecomedian

    I'm not gonna use this post to rail on Grayhaven because truthfully they do O.K. work and they have the connections. I just think that the rules that they are trying to conform with are dated in an industry with people like Bill Jemas in it. VROOM*** Don't burn your bridge with them. I was kind of angry and full of venom but in truth I wouldn't want to completely shut out Andrew and the gang because then I'd be just as quasi-fascist as they are with their PC Sugar Plums & Lollipops review policies. Keep writing for them and save your more peppered and expository reviews for us. We don't necessarilly have to force them off of AICN. I do however, think that having a Retinas/@$$holes comics column would be great and who ever said there was anything wrong with a little healthy competition. ***Now, moving on. On the subject of the Giffen, Maguire, DeMateis reunion I gotta say Bra-fucking-vo. One of the main reasons I love X-Force so much is because it remins me of that run. Say what you want about DC but every once in a while they show that they've got some stones too.

  • April 12, 2002, 11:36 p.m. CST

    I don't think it should be an issue of Greyhaven v. Screamin

    by Ambush Bug

    Serious Bug here. I think the Retinas should start an example here in the talkbacks. Too often do these talkbacks regress into issues of this versus that. Star Wars vs. Spider-Man. Lord of the Rings vs. Harry Potter. Marvel vs. DC. You know, there is enough room on this site for people who like or dislike both sides. Why polarize the comic reviews? I have had my own problems with Greyhaven's grading system and favoritism towards all things Marvel, but I still read the reviews. GH has done a fine job of opening up a new arena for all of us to play in at AICN. His "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" motto is a little strict, but I am glad a forum has been provided for all of us fans to gather and opinionate. There was a time when one could only babble about comics on the various tidbits of Spidey and X-Men movie news. That doesn't mean that I don't think a regular Screaming Retinas comic review page wouldn't be the bee's kuh-nees. Hell, some of us have been babbling on and on about comics and what not for years now. It's about time we unite and try to bring a little class back to the talkbacks. There was a time I could log on and count on debating and conversing intelligently with my talkback friends day after day. It seems that lately, I read the stories and talkbacks and see nothing but angry dribble and useless tripe. The Screaming Retinas may not be the ones guilty of this offense, but like the wizened talkbackers that we are, we should set an example of how the talkbacks should be run. The Retinas, and anyone else for that matter, should take it upon themselves to raise the bar of the talkbacks which has sunken very low lately. It shouldn't be an us vs. them scenario. We all love comics. More reviews mean more talkbacks and debate. And that sounds good to me. Greyhaven, keep up the good work, but the Comedian has started something here and you might have a little friendly competition brewing in the near future.

  • April 12, 2002, 11:49 p.m. CST

    And another thing...

    by Ambush Bug

    I read that "Formerly Known as Justice League" Giffen/DeMatties/McGuire article and there was one thing that really flared my nostrils. NO GUY GARDNER!!! What? We have the return of Booster and Beetle, Fire and Ice, Max and L-Ron, and not a single mention of the best damn Green Lantern ever to wear moon boots. I don't care if he is Vuldarian, Green Lantern, or powerless, Guy had better be present come print time. I want my Guy Gardner back. By the way, what is the Superman issue everyone is talking about that supposedly has Guy's return? I checked with my local comic guru and he knew nothing of the issue. I don't regularly collect Superman, so I am out of the loop in the Metropolis department. A little help here please?

  • April 13, 2002, 2:55 a.m. CST

    Good call on toning down the aggression, Bug...

    by Dave_F

    ...and I'm pleased to see that similar sentiments have already been expressed by the Comedian himself. I think we're mostly in agreement that GrayHaven's done some really cool stuff as far as making comics more high profile at AICN, so any independent reviews that come from this should be seen less as an attack on GrayHaven and more as good-spirited competition, or just another set of reviews for readers to consider. But with swears.

  • April 13, 2002, 3:02 a.m. CST

    I don't know if Guy will be in it, but he's alive.

    by Daredevil

    First off, he's gone through worse than an impaling. His Vuldarian healing ability shouldn't have had trouble with it. As for being in thenew Justice League reunion book, I couldn't see them leaving him out of it. Maybe they left his name out so it will be a surprise. Hopefully. Guy's one of my favorites. Especially now that he's not suffering from mental problems. Rather than being an insane jerk with an inferiority complex, now he's just his normal cocky ex-jock self. Besides, it's hard to find a superhero anywhere near Guy. Either they're all goody two shoes and won't kill at all, or they're killing machines like Punisher. The few in the middle, who aren't afraid to use lethal force when necessary, like Guy, are few and far between. Way more realistic as far as I'm concerned (How many of you would be one of the above extremes if you were a superhero?) **************As for X-Force, I hope Allred's run is going to start being collected soon. I've heard good things about it, and I don't want to hunt for back issues. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the old X-Force/New Mutant characters that are appropriate show up. Cannonball rejoining the group and written by Allred would be great. Not to mention that originally, the New Mutants were kind of written like Allred writes them, newbies who have wierd powers they might not know how to use very well getting into problems they can't handle.

  • April 13, 2002, 3:18 a.m. CST


    by Dave_F

    Okay, I think there's a general consensus that Frank Miller went a to put it...APESHIT on the second issue of DK2. Be that as it may, you've got to wonder what's happened to issue #3. It is now over TWO MONTHS late. Did Frank simply fall that far behind? I doubt it. For a high profile project like this, I suspect he'd be well ahead of schedule (if not completely finished) before DC put all its marketing might behind it. No, word from my comic shop and a few other online resources is that DC has described the final issue as being "indefinitely delayed," and I'm starting to think that ol' Frank must be immersed in some serious arguments with DC. Specifically, I think DC (read AOL/Time Warner) is getting some very cold feet about Miller's anti-government sentiments in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. DC's already shown a definite skittishness in regards to comics dealing with terrorism or citywide destruction, delaying both some AUTHORITY stories and the second JSA trade for many months. It's not hard to imagine that they had some problems with whatever acts of nihilism Miller reveals in the climactic act of DK2, maybe asked for or even demanded some changes, and ran head first into the brick wall that is Frank Miller's views on censorship. A pre-DK2 interview with Miller had him mentioning that certain events in the series would have readers thinking the story was written in the wake of 9/11, but he wanted to assure them this wasn't the case. Given that information and DC's utter silence on the matter, can there be any doubt that there's a showdown going on behind the scenes?

  • ...but I'll have you know that I was *this* close to posting in a most heterosexual manner about my enthusiasm for that perky little vixen, Mary Marvel, being in the new JLI team. For, yes, I've always had a special tingly feeling for ol' Mary, with her girl-next-door good looks and that sassy little miniskirt. Granted, she's supposed to be sixteen or thereabouts, so admitting that probably edges me uncomfortable close to Catholic Priest-level problems, but what can I say? She'll always have a special place among the hotties of the funnybook world because she was in the Captain Marvel Little Golden Book I had as a kid where she, Captain Marvel, and Marvel Jr. helped a circus train reach its destination on time after some disaster blocked the tracks. We're talking world shaking events here, people! But more importantly, only *one* member of that trio was parading around in a skirt. Yep, she beat out Jean Grey and the Black Cat and all the other comic book babes of my youth, and thanks to artists like Jerry Ordway, she's still cookin' today. In fact, I think I'll pay tribute to her with links to two lovely Ordway covers. The first is a straight-up portrait -- -- and the second seems uncomfortably close to something my subconscious might cook up (against my will, dammit!): By the way, Sleazy, my love for Supes is positively platonic in comparison to all the sweaty pining that goes on when Guy Gardner gets mentioned in a Talkback. Is it the bowl cut or what? Gotta be the bowl cut.

  • April 13, 2002, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Ever think that the reason that some of us don't 'GET IT

    by RickSlamu2

    The Comedian. A truer name was never given. This nut MUST Be FUCKEN JOKING when he spews this tripe as a review. I won't waste my time by asking you people why you think that this book was any good since the re-launch. I gave it 6 issues to judge it and at the 3rd I was ALREADY wanting my money back. Well the moniker of X-Force will soon be put to rest before this team (AND I USE THAT TERM LOOSELY) of self-absorbed, neurotic, in it for themselves, Media WHORES further sullies the good name left by Sam Guthrie & Co. And DO NOT Give me that Bull shit about that these are the characteristics that make this a good book. Rob Liefield, since he was brought up, did it earlier, more interesting and just plain better with the original "Youngblood." I don't know why the subtitle to X-Force isn't Youngblood: the Marvel Rip-OFF! By the way Comedian, WHAT FUCKEN CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!?! Any interesting characters were ALWAYS KILLED OFF! I can't tell you how long I've been waiting for some one to pop U-Go-Girl, The Anarchist, The Orphan or Doop. Not giving a damm about Phat, Vivisector or The Spike because I knew they where cannon fodder anyway. JUST KILL THIS DAMM BOOK SO I CAM IGNORE X-STATICS #1 WHEN IT COMES OUT!!!

  • April 13, 2002, 12:03 p.m. CST

    Bug on Comics II - Guy Gardner, Mary Marvel, and stuff

    by Ambush Bug

    First off, Sleazy, I know what you mean. This Chicago weather has got me sick as a dog. I still can't get anyone to divulge any info on the issue where Guy Gardner's made his return. Oh well, he's supposed to be in the next Green LAntern issue, so I guess I will have to wait. Cormorant, as for as Guy's popularity is concerned, I believe Daredevil hit the nail on the head. Too many of the heroes now a days are goody goodies or homicidal badasses. Guy is a bit more complex than just the asshole of the group. Sure his attitude made him famous in the JLI series, but in Guy's own series and later in the smattering of issues Guy appeared in Green LAntern, Guy was fleshed out to be more than just an asshole. He's the guy who was the all star athelete and had the crowds roaring for him in high school, but then grew up and has been insearch of those cheers ever since. Like Green Arrow, Hawkeye, and Wildcat, Guy is the powerless guy among gods who is trying to fit in the best way he can. Sure he lacks subtlety. Sure he lacks social skills, but isn't it just a little boring to have a group of heroes that get along. Any group has conflict and Guy represents that conflict. I am sure Guy will make an appearance in this new version of JLI. They will probably start the team without him, since none of them liked him very much in the first place, but Guy will find out and force his way in the group. Can't wait. Oh yeah, Mary Marvel. Quite a little hottie, Cormorant. Power Girl was more my type. The problem with the Shazam family if that they all have a portion of the same power. I think they should incorporate the old Isis television show into the MArvel mythos. Anyone remember that old series? It ran right after or before SHAZAM! on Saturday mornings. Mary Marvel should evolve into an incarnation of ISIS and get her own powers. And kill Captain Marvel Jr. Very lame. I would love to see some talented writer get ahold of the Captain Marvel title and clean up all of the magical bunny and aligator stuff.

  • April 13, 2002, 6:04 p.m. CST

    Tone Down The Aggression? We're Not Toning Anything Down! We

    by Buzz Maverik

    Now, I usually just skip the reviews in Greyhaven except for Cormorant's, Vroom's and Elliot's and go straight to the talkbacks, so I could be wrong about this, but has there been anything on here about CAGE? Because I dig Luke Cage, I dig Richard Corben and that Azzarello guy is okay. Their BANNER was beautiful but too slight and I hated Azzarello's take on Doc Samson. So I'm interested in CAGE but reviews would help when it comes TPB time, y' know? That's why no bad reviews is a stupid policy. Because a review of things that someone considers bad might still indicate to me enough aspects of the book that I would enjoy.

  • April 13, 2002, 6:28 p.m. CST

    I'm diggin' Cage too.

    by Ambush Bug

    That is the only MAX title I am buying these days. I always felt that Cage should be the one representing the street wise side of the Marvel U. He epitomized the 70's with his title, but the character definately needed a redux. The story is unfolding very slowly, but that's okay with me. I agree that the creative team's take on Doc Sampson missed the mark. He is no glory hounding psychopath bent on Banner's capture. He's always been a cautious ally to Bruce and a sparring partner for the Hulk. I did like the ending of the Banner series where old Lenny left Bruce to off himself. It was a nice little twist and, even though it was a total 360 for Doc Sampson's character in that particular series, it felt more like the Leonard Sampson I grew up with. The art on Cage is great as well. This Corben guy should stick around. Maybe do a Cap story or a Punisher. I would love to see this team of writer and artist team up again for a DD arc. Anyway, while we are suggesting formats for a Screaming Retinas review, I suggest we put together a little something we can cleverly call, "Hey, look what comics I got this week." That way we can write about the comics we care about, and aren't those the only one's that matter? We all collect great, mid range, and shitty titles. Why not list what we buy and tell what we think of them? Sure some of us get our comic fix by reading three or four a month, then there are those rabid fans who go weekly and shell out many a greenback to get as many as possible. Whatever. Just a suggestion. I going to nap now.

  • April 13, 2002, 9:13 p.m. CST

    Mark me down in the "NO CAGE" column, please.

    by Dave_F

    Man was I sorely disappointed in this effort. When I heard that Azzarello was pitching it as a blaxploitation-style story, I thought, "Okay, this might be fun." I've always liked Cage, but there's no doubt that his steel headband, open shirt, and chain belt(!) are fairly silly throwbacks to 70's stereotypes. So why not take that one step further, right? Why not play with the genre that he was clearly derived from? Well, what I'd been envisioning (Cage wearing his traditional threads but sporting a slightly rougher attitude and transposed directly into a funny & gritty 70's crime scenario) was pretty damn far from what Azzarello came up with. Out go Cage's yellow shirt, headband, nice guy attitude, and any sense of humor whatsoever, and in comes...well...the guy in the next to last panel at this URL: I've already practically forgotten the issue, but I remember Azzarello portraying Cage as a very mercenary kind of guy who barely works up an interest in helping out a lady whose daughter was shot by gang-bangers. Not enough money in it, you see. In general, I seem to remember him as being very emotionless, with his eyes always hidden behind his shades. I suppose I was expecting the wrong thing from Azzarello if I had even the faintest hope that the lead character would be likeable, but suffice to say, this is a Luke Cage that strays so far from the original character as to be completely unrecognizable. And, of course, there's no hint of the Marvel Universe -- no Iron Fist, Dazzler, Ghost Rider, or any of the other 70's-centric Marvel characters I thought would be fun to see on this project. Just a bulletproof tough guy in a seamy ghetto crime story. It bears about as much relation to the original Luke Cage as, say, Morrison's DOOM PATROL did to its forebears. On the art side, Corben's art is immaculate as always in its ugliness, but I felt the colors really washed his work out a bit. I consider myself a fan of his work, but not enough of a fan to pick up the likes of CAGE. I'm also starting to think Azzarello is very overrated. CAGE bites, BANNER was a misfire, his opening HELLBLAZER story arc works more for shock value than anything else, and though I found the first two trades of 100 BULLETS mildly intriguing, I can't say I really feel a desire to return to the story. So why's this guy so sought after right now? At least Ennis has some genuine feeling beneath his shock value violence. Well, he used to...

  • April 13, 2002, 11:38 p.m. CST

    Quick note to RickSlamu2...

    by Dave_F

    Your post was joking, right? Like, tongue-in-cheek, nudge-nudge, wink-wink kinda stuff? No one could seriously think that YOUNGBLOOD was in any way a clever take on superheroes as media darlings, could they? Well, maybe Rob himself. I may have some problems with the quirky writing style on X-FORCE, but on its worst day, it will never be as awful as the mess that was YOUNGBLOOD. YOUNGBLOOD, were it a film, would be one of the most popular films ever to be lampooned on MST3K. A camp classic. I actually bought the first two issues when it debuted, and I treasure those issues for their humor value, what with Liefeld being the Ed Wood of comics. As for Sam Guthrie and company, I can understand liking them if you grew up on them, but I never thought much of the characters. They mark the beginning of the end for Chris Claremont as far as I'm concerned. Lame characters, lame powers, lame stories, and it was the first comic to officially splinter the X-titles, leading to the proliferation of mutant titles that still goes on today. Must admit, though, I can't find it in my heart to part with the issues that Bill Sienkiewicz drew. I hated his art when I was a kid, but now I think it looks fantastic. Moody as all hell, that stuff, and the darker elements he introduced almost made up for Chris Claremont's devolving scripts. At least for a time. The Demon Bear saga is still a pretty damn creepy stand-alone storyline.

  • Because I'm starting to like the guy these days, though I must admit he occasionally overindulges in his "look at my cuh-razy ideas" side. Witness recent developments in ULTIMATE X-MEN, wherein members of the X-Men have actually been striking up friendships with the terrorist members of the Brotherhood of Mutants. Still, Millar's broken away from the somewhat flimsy characterizations with which the book began, and the majority of his ideas I really dig. Hooking up Beast and Storm is proving interesting, Professor X's innovative "mutant homework" assignments actually make sense, and as I've always maintained, Millar cooks up some of the best action scenes in superherodom. I'm still annoyed by the occasional scene where I tell he's pushing boundaries just for the sake of pushing the boundaries, but overall, I'm rarely disappointed with his work. In fact, I think ULTIMATE X-MEN is actually outperforming ULTIMATE SPIDEY these days, and Millar's THE ULTIMATES may just be the best of the bunch. I was really nervous that Millar would turn the Avengers into a bunch of unlikable creeps, but while they may not be the altruistic square-jaws of the Golden and Silver ages, they're not a bad group of people. Where the Authority went out of its way to make its members hipper-than-hip badasses, the members of the Ultimates just seem like ordinary folks in extraordinary circumstances. And I can't believe that Giant Man is one of the more enjoyable characters. Who woulda thunk it? Anyone who was turned off of the series based on the sluggish first issue (I'm talking to you, Jon Quixote) should give the second and third issues a shot. The pacing ain't for hyper-action fans, but personally I'm loving the techno-thriller feel of the book. I'm dyin' to see Thor.

  • April 14, 2002, 2:23 a.m. CST

    Amen brotha

    by dingo8baby

    X-force is the best title out there today. And to all the naysayers, fuck them up their stupid asses.

  • April 14, 2002, 2:15 p.m. CST

    SixtyFoot, I got a message for ya, tough guy:

    by Dave_F

    I think you're the first Talkbacker I've ever seen who wrote out "AICN" with periods between the letters. Kinda reminded me of the classic T&A movie, H.O.T.S., and the classic horror movie, C.H.U.D. Thought you might find that interesting.

  • April 14, 2002, 10:19 p.m. CST

    So, wrapping up...

    by thecomedian

    Well, sorry I slept out most of this talkback but I had a lot of shit to do this weekend. ***Cormorant- If you read my High Roads review carefully you'd realize that I was mostly praising Leinil's art and that I only passingly acknowledged Lobdell's paint by numbers dialogue. On the subject of you writing up Big Blue for our column. I just though of you because Sleazy and Village Idiot said you once had some grand Superman plan. But I know Superman ain't your bag. So, eventhough I wanted to write a review for "Sam Jackson meets The Americans #4" when it comes out I guess you can do it. Truthfully The Ultimates is the one ultimate book I'm digging because it's such a bastardization that you can't help but love it. And Sam Jackson is doing a great job playing Nick Fury in my imagination. When I'm reading it I even hear his voice doing the dialogue. The only problem I have so far is Millar's obnoxious pop culture celebrity name dropping. ***But anyway, getting back to the subject at hand I'm going to get a list of what books come out this wednesday and then I'll see how we're gonna work this out so that we can review at least three of them. I'll be in touch with you guys in the next few days via e-mail so that we can split up the first round of reviews for the "Talkback League of @$$holes" reviews columns. And So it begins.

  • April 14, 2002, 10:50 p.m. CST

    Oh Yeah and about Mary Marvel...

    by thecomedian

    Cormorant, you should pick up a copy of Bizzaro comics(if you could find one now)and read "The Clubhouse of Solitude"by Dylan Horrocks & Jessica Abel. It's a funny little diddy staring a 30 something silver age Mary Marvel who's quit being a superhero for a normal life and "hasn't said the s-word in years - not since what happened to Billy" sitting down with Supergirl in a dinner. I've never really been into Captain Marvel and that story still touched me. You should check it out.

  • April 18, 2007, 10:53 a.m. CST

    Review Archive for AICN Comics

    by Squashua

    The archive of past reviews at our Comicspace account has been updated. <br><br> Check it out at:

  • April 18, 2007, 10:54 a.m. CST

    Heheh. Oops. ***LAST!!!***

    by Squashua

    My mistake. This isn't today's reviews. LAST! Ha! Find that one, Loodabagel!