March 31, 2002, 1:11 a.m. CST
by Haunted Mind
but their so irresistable!!!!!!!!
March 31, 2002, 1:28 a.m. CST
Comics Continuum has the scoop. They got the pictures that hercules mentioned and a little dish on what to expect. Here's the URL. Just scroll down and you'll see the story. http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0203/30/index.htm
March 31, 2002, 3:06 a.m. CST
From what I heard though, Connor's supposed to be about 16, Dawn's age. That pic so rocks though. The last five eps are going to be f'in amazing!
March 31, 2002, 7:21 a.m. CST
...that sent the pics! How cool that they actually showed up! I am dying to see this episode. I really hope Cordy returns, just to see the look on her face when she realizes how much she missed. And they need to explain her lack of visions over the last two episodes. I like the idea of the supernatural prophylactic repressing the visions, as it seems to me the only acceptable answer.
March 31, 2002, 12:35 p.m. CST
by The Night Raven
... years and years ago a very similar story in the old Marvel 'Dracula' comic book. I can't remember what period, but I remember seeing it in a UK reprint and I probably wasn't even into my teens when I saw it. Basically, Dracula had a child with some witch/vamp/thing and the child went through a similar acelarated infancy and grew into a young adult called Janus. He wasn't human as I recall, but neither was he a vampire. I think one of his powers was the ability to purify recent vampire victims, cleansing their souls and preventing them from rising again as one of the undead. I never found out how the story finished - Dracula wasn't my bag as a kid - but I reckon Joss remembers it. This is very, very similar.
March 31, 2002, 1:55 p.m. CST
I found a page with some photos of the Vincent guy they cast. These pictures seem to be up to 4 years old so keep in mind that he probably won't look this young. go to: http://www.stargalaxy.com/redir.cgi? sid=18.104.22.168_d11aaee73ca75a62d11ab531& target=img_page/IG/0/1/1/9/idol_1.html BE SURE TO TAKE THE SPACES OUT OF THE ADDRESS WHEN PASTING IT IN YOUR ADDRESS BAR! I didn't want to make this page screw up by posting a really long address.
March 31, 2002, 2:56 p.m. CST
by Not Gellar's Ass
I'm just glad those crackpot theories about Connor being Grue aren't true. **** April 15th, eh? I assume Angel doesn't pay taxes.
March 31, 2002, 3:28 p.m. CST
If Connor is going to come back then what happens to Holtz?
March 31, 2002, 3:30 p.m. CST
by Chilli Kramer
But these are more like enticers..
March 31, 2002, 3:48 p.m. CST
by Voice O. Reason
...X-Factor and X-Force. Remember Cyclops and Cable? Anyhow, I'm glad Wes won't be getting off easy for his betrayl (no matter how justified he was). That's good drama, folks, good drama.
March 31, 2002, 5:55 p.m. CST
by The Night Raven
...Y'know how when Angel experiences one true moment of happiness he's supposed to lose his soul? Right? Well isn't having a kid supposed to be one of the happiest moments of your life? I mean Sarah Michelle's cute 'n all, but c'mon Joss - what the fuck?
March 31, 2002, 6 p.m. CST
by The Night Raven
March 31, 2002, 6:07 p.m. CST
by The Night Raven
... Does anyone remember how that storyline ended. It kinda bugging me now and I gotta know.
March 31, 2002, 7:06 p.m. CST
ThatKartheiser dude is the crazy dude from Crime and Punishment in Suburbia. He does look like a girl, but he can act though, kinda. He may even add a new dimension to Angel since he and Angel contrast so much
March 31, 2002, 7:20 p.m. CST
I figured wesly would make it to that er that was 1 minute away, but does anyone else think that the time travel demon (starts w/ an s)is conner all grown-up, hence his hatred for angel and his refessal to answer why he hates angel
March 31, 2002, 8:15 p.m. CST
You would think Fred would be at Wes's, and Gun's side. Is she with Cordy or what?
March 31, 2002, 10:16 p.m. CST
Thanks for the pics, and thanks for not giving the whole story away. :-) This is the kind of spoiler that just rocks, not the blow-by-blow why-bother-to-see-the-episode, because-we-know -how it-will-end type of spoiler we sometimes get about Buffy.
March 31, 2002, 10:45 p.m. CST
Yeah, cause we'd never figure that Angel would be upset with Wes or that sending the kid to an alternate dimension, which have repeated been shown to have time flowing at a different rate, was a way to grow him up within the season since babies in shows are ALWAYS boring and have to be aged through some kludge. Holtz probably died there and don't count on the time deamon knowing about the growth spurt; he said he hadn't seen the dimensional leap coming when it happened.
April 1, 2002, 10:38 a.m. CST
I don't think he is. I used to, but in the last episode Sajahn(or something like that) clearly wanted the child dead. I figured that maybe he wanted to erase himself from existance by killing his younger self, but if that's the case then he shouldn't have been contented when Holtz took Conner with him into that Hell dimension. Conner wasn't dead, and if anything it might actually guarantee that Conner will become a time demon like Sajahn. So, again, I don't think these bits jell--but it wouldn't be the first time they tried to trick us with throw away lines. Also, I don't have to tell you how bad the writing would be--it's a paradox! Conner dying because of his older self? That should destroy the space time continuum shouldn't it? I know, we don't care about those silly Star Trek physics in the Buffy/Angelverse, but I think Whedon and team can and WILL do better than that. Also, it's a pretty predictable plot twist.
April 1, 2002, 4 p.m. CST
For those that mentioned the son of Dracula and it's possible connection to the Angel series here's a synopsis of the movie based on the Marvel comic: DRACULA SOVERIGN OF THE DEAD (I think we can relate some characters here to some characters in Angel) This animated feature begins with a black mass. Instead of Satan, the devil worshippers get Dracula's toothy grin. They offer him a bride, Delores. Dracula accepts but finds he can't put the bite on her. We're introduced to Frank Drake, Hans Harker, and Rachel Von Helsing. Meanwhile the head Satanist, upset over "Satan's" nonappearance since accepting his bride, succeeds in summoning the real deal. Satan promises revenge on the lord of vampires. A year passes. Delores gives birth to a son, Janus. Drac gives us a history lesson and tells how Satan transformed him into a vampire. Drac gets a note from the Satanist, announcing a planned ceremony baptizing his son into the fellowship of the black mass. If you guessed this is a trap, you'd be right. The priest winds up killing Janus. Drac goes on a rampage, killing the priest and sets about destroying the temple. Enter the vampire hunters. Delores, grief stricken over her loss, is ready to commit suicide when God intervenes and resurrects Janus, only now he's an adult and intent on killing his father. Father and son eventually battle, with Drac retreating. Satan uses Delores as bait, luring Drac out in the open. Satan transports them to hell and puts the whammy on Drac. Delores makes the save, using her own previously unseen powers. They return home and Drac can see his reflection- he's no longer a vampire. He then goes to NY in search of the Vampire Layla, hoping she can turn him back. She refuses. Drac then goes to his old stomping grounds. Tranyvania, finds his former fianc
April 1, 2002, 4:47 p.m. CST
And I thought I was the only one who thought this...HAH! I too changed my mind once I saw the demon's reaction to them jumping into the portal. Now I can only assume that Connor has something to do with the demon's demise later.
April 1, 2002, 10:41 p.m. CST
Holtz doesn't cut the stuff for a bad guy, although the time demon guy does anyone wanna doubt Angel has done something to him not in the past but the future?
April 2, 2002, 2:15 p.m. CST
Regarding the moment of true happiness, there have been two theories discussed on the boards. 1- Angel wouldn't experience true bliss with Connor for various reasons, ie- fear of reverting to Angelus; concerns for giving Connor a normal life; paranoia over cults, W&H, and others coming after Connor; etc. 2- The possibility that Willow (or Jenny Calendar) had the foresight to take that clause out of the curse, because being responsible people, they wouldn't want to take the chance that he would turn into Angelus again and go on another murderous rampage. Will may not have said anything to anyone because she may be unsure if it worked. (Some point to the happy drug that turned him back to Angelus temporarily to argue against this, but I point to the fact that Wes said it was artificial. I think Angel went bad like a hypochondriac gets a fever, just cuz he thinks he should.) AD out
April 2, 2002, 3:26 p.m. CST
I THINK THAT WHEN CONNOR COMES BACK HE'LL HAVE KNOWN HOLTZ AS HIS FATHER ALL HIS LIFE AND WILL HATE OR NOT ACCEPT ANGEL. I THINK HE'LL HAVE STRONG LOYALTIES TO HOLTZ.
April 2, 2002, 3:27 p.m. CST
April 2, 2002, 3:30 p.m. CST
OKAY SO I WAS A LITTLE PISSED OFF TO READ A RECENT NOXON INTERVIEW, WHERE SHE STATED THAT ALL BUFFY/ANGEL SHIPPERS WERE PEOPLE WHO NEVER GOT OVER THERE HIGHSCHOOL SWEETHEARTS. BASICALLY WE'RE A BUNCH OF LOSERS WHO NEED TO GET OVER IT AND JUST ACCEPT WHATEVER LOVE INTEREST THEY SHOVE DOWN OUR THROATS. IS SOMEBODY FORGETTING THAT AN EXTREMELY LOYAL FAN BASE IS WHAT ALLOWS HER TO HAVE A JOB. SORRY I'M JUST A BIT EMOTIONAL.
April 3, 2002, 1:16 a.m. CST
Okay, a few nights ago I had a dream that Angel walked into Wes's hospital room while Wes was sleeping and put the bite on him. He stops when Wes shouts out "Father! No!" and Gunn (alerted by a phonecall from Cordy, who's seen a vision) walks in, followed by some nurses. And then I find this pic on AICN... spooky... ***Anyway, of course Angel will be upset first (hell, he thinks Wes gave Holtz Connor and his car!), but will mellow out when he finds out what Wes was really doing. (Even Lorne can probably vouch for Wes not planning to hand the kid over to Holtz.) Oh, and mentioning Jenny Calendar to him will probably make him see more clearly. Wes's biggest problem now is his own guilt. I wouldn't be surprised if our rogue demon hunter friend goes a bit suicidal or self-destructive.
April 3, 2002, 9:06 a.m. CST
by Sylvia Simon
I figured that part of Holtz's revenge would be to turn Connor away from Angel. I think that Holtz will tell Connor that he is his father, and will say that this horrible vampire Angel killed his mother and siblings. Connor will come back to our dimension with a strong hatred for Angel, seeing as how Holtz is the only "father" Connor ever knew (while doing the rapid aging thing in another dimension).