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MORIARTY Has Seen THE TWO TOWERS Trailer!! This Friday Can't Come Soon Enough!!

Hey, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab.

Good morning, world. I'm going to use the same first paragraph on each of the stories I post this morning, because I want to make sure it's read by as many visitors to the site as possible this morning. In everyone's rush to view the Oscars, the Independent Spirit Awards got overlooked, as usual, and I want to send all congratulations out to such worthy winners as Tom Wilkinson and Sissy Spacek, Chris Nolan and Carrie-Anne Moss, Daniel Clowes and Terry Zwigoff and Steve Buscemi, and MEMENTO and AMELIE. That's not to slight the remarkable accomplishment of Halle Berry and Denzel Washington last night, but simply to recognize that a lot of worthy people picked up awards this weekend, and there's more than one game in town.

So the strangest thing just happened to me.

I'm sitting here in the Labs, post-Oscars, having just run my guests home, and I'm getting ready to make a few notes on things and go to bed when there was a sound... a shuddering, like a great wind rushing through the room... and papers blew up in a flurry all around me. I jumped up and began to snatch them out of the air, pausing, my task forgotten, as I saw Gandalf The White standing in the doorway.

He held out his hand, and there in his palm, I saw the Palantir, and in the depths of that glass sphere, I saw something familiar. I leaned closer. Yes... it was the last few moments of FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING. There's Sam... there's Frodo... there's the distant fires of Mount Doom.

I looked up at Gandalf, afraid to ask him anything. He's much more imposing in person, keep in mind. "Ummm... this is very nice," I said, smiling as broadly as I could, "but I actually saw this already a few times..."

The fire I saw in his eyes, the fire that had burned away his old persona at the bottom of some forgotten pit of Moria, caused me to cringe back a bit, afraid I had offended him. When he spoke, though, it was with a deceptive sort of quiet, a hush. "Keep watching," he said.

So I looked again, and I saw the last shot of the film fade to black, and the first of the end titles came up...

... only it didn't. It wasn't the first of the end titles. The screen said "Coming this Christmas," and a sudden electric shock ran down my spine as I realized what Gandalf was showing me. "The journey continues" came up, then gave way to a shot of a pin lying in the grass, shaped like a leaf. Someone leaned in, picked it up, and the camera TILTS UP to the face of Aragorn.

And as soon as you see those shots of Aragorn and Gimli and Legolas on the hunt for Merry and Pippin, you know that everything you liked about FELLOWSHIP is going to be back this time around. Andrew Lesnie's Academy-Award winning cinematography is just as grand and sweeping this time out. The first few images show us the search for Merry and Pippin, but quickly, we are reintroduced to Gandalf The White in an image that should give you some idea of what I encountered here in the Labs tonight, a powerful wizard, bristling with barely restrained might. This is not the frail old man of the first film; not at all.

The dialogue flew past, and I wasn't prepared to write it all down. "So... Gandalf Grayhaven believes he has found the Lost King Of Gondor," muses Saruman, even as Gandalf speaks directly to Isildur's conflicted heir. "Sauron is not yet so powerful that he is without fear. He fears you, Aragorn. He fears what you may become." There are shots here hinting at the future of Aragorn, at the destiny that is his to claim, and the trailer just keeps ramping up, building steam.

We see Sam and Frodo in the Dead Marshes. "The Ring..." says Frodo. "It grows heavier." Galadriel speaks to someone, pain on her face: "Frodo will not survive this task."

And then it's just one shot right after another, and we're getting our first looks at the characters. We're seeing Theoden and Grima Wormtongue (dear god, Brad Dourif looks perfect) and Faramir and Eowyn, and then two particularly striking shots of Arwen laid out as if dead, and at this point, the images just race by, and we're seeing landscapes and that glorious Howard Shore score just keeps building, and every single frame of Helm's Deep is intense, foreboding, with a couple of battle shots that will make your jaw drop (the ladders being thrown up against the wall and knocked away just as fast while sheets of arrows volley back and forth), and then, HOLY SHIT WAS THAT TREEBEARD?! And even more shots flash by, and wait a minute, was that four minutes? How can that already be four minutes? I WANT MORE!! I WANT MORE!! I WANT...

... and then those last few shots creep up on you, Gollum creeping down the side of the mountain towards the sleeping Sam and Frodo, hissing under his breath about "the cursed hobbitsesss... cursed thievessssss..." and just as he's reaching out for the Ring, Frodo opens his eyes, and...

... Gandalf snatched the Palantir away from me. I cried out and reached for it, but he shook his head. "Greedy boy, I have others to show this to, and far to travel still tonight."

"Just one more time," I begged, but this only made him laugh, and then I could see the old Gandalf in there, behind those kind eyes.

"It will be in theaters on Friday," he said, "in over 40 different international markets. It will be the same trailer worldwide, all four minutes of it, and New Line is working some magic of their own just to have it ready. It will be there on March 29, and you can see it to your heart's content then. In the meantime, maybe Harry or Quint can fill in some details you missed."

I wanted to ask him if he was on his way to Austin, or if he'd already been, but by that point he was gone, and I found myself here, typing frantically. I hope Gandalf appears for these other guys tonight, because I'm on sensory overload trying to describe what I saw. Maybe they can tell you what Theoden says. Hell, I think the scene in the trailer is the scene Harry was there to watch them film with Bernard Hill. All I know is, as a LOTR fan, I was very pleased by what I saw and heard. Fans around the world are getting a love letter this Friday, cut by Jackson himself, and it doesn't feel like any normal trailer. It feels like a promise: "In December, we're going to do it again."

And ya know what?

I believe him.

"Moriarty" out.

Readers Talkback
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  • March 25, 2002, 6:25 a.m. CST


    by Neverboy

    And from Sweden

  • March 25, 2002, 6:33 a.m. CST


    by Neverboy

    A funny typo from aicn's OSCAR WATCH (the cinematography part): "And the winner goes to ANDREW!!! YES YES YES!!!!!! he's fucking a great guy... just an amazing person.! Does he deserve an oscar because he is fucking a great guy?

  • March 25, 2002, 6:36 a.m. CST


    by Tokyo Joe

    And from Japan... Now seeing as Fellowship has only just begun it's Japanese run, and considering the ammount of "Oh there's a second movie??" folks I keep running into, you'd assume that The Two Towers footage will be going up this weekend. But since Japanese distributors are retards I daresare we'll have to wait 3 months for it. Oh and Amelie was robbed, Lord of the Rings should've won etc etc.

  • March 25, 2002, 6:38 a.m. CST

    Beautiful Mind

    by Tokyo Joe

    Not that I can say if Beautiful Mind deserved to win or not, 'cos it's not been released yet here. Maybe that's a good thing??

  • March 25, 2002, 7 a.m. CST


    by Tokyo Joe

    ...gets a flashback! Maybe. Who cares about the academy? Two Towers'll be tons better than Fellowshiop and STILL won't get best picture next year. It'll be some sappy biopic full of lies starring poetry spouting thugs..??

  • March 25, 2002, 7:08 a.m. CST


    by smokinyoda

    Yeah, it sounds all well and good, but this doesn't sound like a "Clone War" trailer. (just kidding I loved Fellowship) We'll see about the hype because it will be LOTR vs. AOTC next Oscars for all the visual and design catagories, and, god willing, best picture. How about that for a TB war between Ring fans and Star Wars nerds. Hope Gandalf looks as cool as I hear.

  • March 25, 2002, 7:12 a.m. CST

    A Beautiful Oscar Package....

    by Splinter

    Can't you see it? All those months ago in the boardroom, A Beautiful Oscar Package gets greenlit..."Ron, do you realise what you have on your hands here? Oscar-city baby. Russel Crowe. Mental illness. Triumph over adversity. Love conquering all. Russell Crowe. Scizophrenia. Maths. Russel Crowe. Best Picture and Best Director baby." I've never in all my years as a film-geek seen so fucking BLAND AND OBVIOUS a choice for best film/director. Lowest Common Denominator SHITE. SHITE I tell you, folks. And the more films like A Beautiful Oscar Package win, the more SHITE we're going to be subected to. Shame on you Oscar. Peter, you were robbed, you glorious bastard :)

  • March 25, 2002, 7:14 a.m. CST

    YES! Finally we can see what Peter Jackson has in store for us a

    by chuckrussel

    'nuff said.

  • March 25, 2002, 7:21 a.m. CST

    See how Moriarty can transmit his enthusiasm for a film

    by Sepulchrave

    through some creative writing, compare this little piece to Harry's mongoloid Oscar night ravings and rape of the exclaimation mark. Get your own site, man, it's well overdue.

  • March 25, 2002, 7:24 a.m. CST

    This is a bit more like it...

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    Though I didn't read most of the article above because I want to come to this all fresh and virginal on Friday. Anyway, yeah, LOTR got robbed, but if it's any consolation, so did all the other nominees. I thought "A Beautiful Mind" was actually the worst contender of all the nominated pics - it should have been bumped for Ali or Memento. I'd rather any of the others had won, even if they'd beat LOTR! Though I am psyched Denzil Washington won for Training Day. He was electrifying in that. But enough of this! We've got some Gollum coming at us, presumably! God, please may he work. Please, please may he work out. HE HAS TO WORK OUT!

  • March 25, 2002, 7:44 a.m. CST

    And bthe Oscar for Best Picture goes to...

    by RoboBagPiper

    Another insipid pandering chick-flick no one will remember in five years. Well, at least LOTR:FOTR is in good company for the category of "Robbed by blubbering estrogen addicts". Need we say "Saving Private Ryan". I know where I'm going to be Friday night, and it ain't going be seeing Ron Howard's schmaltz.

  • March 25, 2002, 7:47 a.m. CST

    Good films are good, bad films are good, average films are good

    by sanc_reunion

    Moriarty, your words are valueless.

  • March 25, 2002, 7:55 a.m. CST

    Oh really...

    by Achilles

    Must this guy persist in these infantile story lines every time his writes an article? People want to hear what's in the trailer, not some idiotic Gandalf storyline. JUST SAY WHAT'S IN THE TRAILER. We don't need to hear some dumb, made-up side story. Sheesh!

  • March 25, 2002, 7:57 a.m. CST

    LOTR was not robbed.

    by Eternal

    No way did LOTR deserve to win Best Picture or Best Director, and other than the glaring supporting actor omission, I think it got a pretty good deal overall. Still, the day I care about this ridiculous popularity contest is the day I stop watching movies. How people can get bent out of shape because the Oscars don't reflect their own tastes is beyond me. Get a fucking grip and relax.

  • March 25, 2002, 8:09 a.m. CST

    Trailers and Twats

    by mythika

    Yes, we were robbed. But we were only robbed of a meaningless award from a sadly biased committee. Still, trailer couldn't come at a better time, get us all ready for TTT (which is going to be equally good, and yet probably still won't get any Oscars next year).

  • March 25, 2002, 8:13 a.m. CST

    The Two Towers & Spider-Man Trailer all in the same week, only i

    by DANZIGG

  • March 25, 2002, 8:24 a.m. CST

    Dammit all to Hell...

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    ... I am a weakling. I have no moral fibre. I *did* read this whole article because I couldn't bear the idea of it being here and me not reading it. I am now breathing hard and trembling gently. Damn my faint resolve!

  • March 25, 2002, 8:34 a.m. CST

    Feel the Pain Fanboys

    by Starbuck1975

    Surprise Surprise Surprise. Just a few short hours after FOTR failed miserably at the Oscars, Ain't It Cool LOTR News has a scoop on the wonder that is Two Towers, probably the most boring of the LOTR trilogy. Public interest will die, and the sequels to FOTR won't pick up any Oscar nods save perhaps a few technical awards. Does anyone else see the irony in Ron "Willow" Howard conquering over your precious fanboy FOTR. "Willow" was ten times more entertaining then FOTR even if it was a Tolkien clone. And Madmartigan owns Strider. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! Feel the pain fanboys...feel the pain.

  • March 25, 2002, 8:39 a.m. CST

    Oh my FUCK LOTR is over reted!

    by Fistful

  • March 25, 2002, 8:40 a.m. CST

    A couple of notes

    by JTylor

    This is excellent news, Moriarty. To the person who said, "only in America," you probably mean only the new Spider-Man trailer, because The Two Towers Preview will be distributed worldwide same-day to all theaters still showing Fellowship. I just hope that eventually it's out on the internet on New-Line's site so I can frame through it obsessively. ^_^; It better be on the DVDs as well. I feel like the only one not totally offended by the Oscars last night. All of the nominees were worthy, well made films, IMHO. On the other hand, if Return of the King doesn't get something out of three years of momentum, a stellar turn by Viggo Mortenson, and heartbreaking performances by both Elijah Wood and Sean Astin, I'll really stop paying attention... but wait, I said that when Pulp Fiction lost to Forrest Gump. ^_^ Just glad John Williams isn't the only game in town and, for those who missed it: WETA Digital is now officially on the map! Watch out ILM!

  • March 25, 2002, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Oh my FUCK LOTR is over reted!

    by Fistful

    I mean it was BORING! Stupid boring film! It took ages to get going and then: TO BE CONTINUED! Fuck that... Same with Star Wars and every other movie these days... The first one is a rubbish getting-to-know-your-main-characters thing and all the good stuff is in the two later films... FUCK TRILOGIES! My ass hurts, 'cos LOTR was an over long, over rated, boring film... Fuck that... And the make up was ugly, so why the hell did it win an Oscar? Like the orges had rubber bags on their heads... Pathetic...

  • March 25, 2002, 8:45 a.m. CST

    NO!! Don't show Treebeard!!

    by Cash Bailey

    I don't want to see the lovable, venerable old Ent until he makes his first appearance on-screen. I don't want to see full Gollum either.

  • March 25, 2002, 8:45 a.m. CST

    Suck My Hobbit

    by Rogman

    Woo-Hoo!! BladeII (release of) and LOTR:TT (trailer of), this Friday in the UK. Easter Weekends rule! Can't wait to see the Riders of Rohan righteously smiting orc-arse.

  • March 25, 2002, 8:53 a.m. CST

    "Yes, WE were robbed"

    by Eternal

    That's a very curious thing to say. Shouldn't it be: LOTR was robbed? Or maybe: Peter Jackson was robbed? Instead you say "we were robbed" like it's some kind of personal attack on LOTR fandom because this "sadly biased committee" didn't bestow a few more awards. I bet everyone dissing the academy would change their tune had they given LOTR Best Picture?

  • March 25, 2002, 8:54 a.m. CST

    Gandalf Grayhaven?

    by rev_skarekroe

    Since when did the AICN Comics guy take over McKellen's role? sk

  • March 25, 2002, 8:55 a.m. CST


    by RenoNevada2000

    What was that you said there Mori? Only in 40 markets?!!? WTF!? It DAMN well better be in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, PA or there will be serioud hell to pay!

  • March 25, 2002, 9:03 a.m. CST

    LOTR got what it deserved at the Oscars, and, sorry fanboys, TTT

    by Atticus Finch

    This is the only site where I see people whining that LOTR was robbed last night. It got what it deserved...technical awards. The film as a whole wasn't anything great. And guess what? It's all downhill from here. Jackson is fucking with the original text too much. No Shelob in TTT? WTF is that?

  • March 25, 2002, 9:10 a.m. CST

    LOTR will win the Oscar...eventually

    by holidill

    AS a fan of both The Lord of the Rings and Star Wars I wish everyone would shut the fuck up about the contest between which is better. They are two seperate entities. For the fans lamenting the LOTR losses, don't worry, when Return of the King is released in 2003, they will win Best Adapted Screenplay, becasue the story is one continuous story that happened to be cut into three parts. Peter may then win his directing Oscar, and maybe Best Picture as well. I think Hollywood is waiting to bestow the awards after the story is completed. Sit back, relax and breath. It's gonna be Ok. Just enjoy the films. And no more Star Wars Vs. LOTR please, that jumped the shark ages ago. LEt's move on. M'Kay.

  • March 25, 2002, 9:10 a.m. CST

    And here I was...

    by RoboBagPiper

    And here I was bitching about films pandering to people overrun with female sex hormones, and out come the people with a total lack of sex hormones: the Star Wars losers.

  • March 25, 2002, 9:11 a.m. CST

    What do ANY of you care?

    by Marc_Price

    Seeing as how you don't know JACK about Tolken! It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach to peruse this site and see all the braying DONKEYS arguing about something they wouldn't understand if it came out in a POP-UP BOOK! Have any of you read the books? Wait, scratch that. Have any of you read A book? You know in between sessions on the can with the Victoria's Secret catalog? Well, next time "Married with Children" gets pre-empted, why don't you try reading? It's OK, you can sound out the big words! Until then, don't even THINK about coming here and arguing about anything related to LOTR.

  • March 25, 2002, 9:36 a.m. CST


    by Ali786

    I'm wondering if the extra trailer bit of The Two Towers will be up on the 'net or not? dunno if it qualifies.. I'm hoping it does tho.. A Beautiful Mind: Best Picture??!?!? my, my ..what a surprise..Hollywood seems to take a step forward and then 10 back...Lord of the Rings getting Oscars for technical achievement only seems to be another slap in the face for fandom..

  • March 25, 2002, 9:44 a.m. CST

    Final Thoughts

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    I'm bummed it didn't win Best Picture. I am. But then again, think of the ride it's been. I've been following the whole process of waiting for it to come out and you know, in November, if anyone would have told me that not only would I love it to bits, it would be a financial success, and that it would be nominated for 13 Oscars, I would have been astounded. Everything that has happened has been utterly cool. And there are still two more to come. And a new trailer on Friday. So I just want to say two things - thanks to the guys running the site for enabling this emotional rollercoaster, meeting place, and astonishingly successful work avoidance tactic for me, and also, Dan-Caputi, I mock you relentlessly as always, with many a rude gesture and a snigger.

  • March 25, 2002, 10:20 a.m. CST

    lighten up! ^-^

    by LumberjackPixie

    Oh come on. I am not ABSOLUTELY obsessed with lord of the rings, but I mean, don't get all worked up because LOTR didn't get the oscar. They 4! I mean that is something to talk about. I am not terribly upset because LOTR didn't win best picture, And I have seen LOTR 13 times. (13 IS a lucky number i'll have you know). Throw A Beautiful Mind a bone will ya? How many of you have ACTUALLY seen it? How are you for sure that A Beautiful Mind Doesn't deserve those oscars. Well, I thought that Enya deserved Best Song, but that is it. The Academy Awards allow themselves to be overrated. You see the key to watching the Oscars is to not care whatsoever. Excusez Moi, but I have to end this message now. Byes! P.S. Kevin Smith is the best director P.P.S. Josh Hartnett is NOT cute P.P.P.S. Teen idols make me SICK P.P.P.P.S. HA! Elijah Wood is going to be in a ROMANTIC comedy with MANDY MOORE!!!! I would love to see that JUST to laugh at them. Smoooooooooooooooooooch. The last Postscript is.... Smoochie Boochies!

  • March 25, 2002, 10:35 a.m. CST

    Trailer spoiler stuff....

    by wilko185

    What's all this about: "Faramir and Eowyn and Arwen laid out as if dead"? Arwen injured from the Pelennor fields, in the Houses of Healing? Or just Mori mixing up the shot we've seen of Arwen's death (presumably) with a shot of Eowyn and Faramir? _____ Re Oscars, let's look on the bright side. FOTR did as good as was reasonable to expect, and there should be very little backlash against its modest haul and so it's set up well for big wins for TTT or ROTK (which always had a better chance for Best Pic/director anyway). That was the first Oscar show I've sat through, and was quite surprised by how involved I got in this silly contest. I'm particularly pleased for Howard Shore, a very well-deserved award I thought.

  • March 25, 2002, 10:37 a.m. CST

    *Punches fist in air*

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    YEEEEESSSSS!!!! I get to see this on Thursday! At least according to Dark Horizons. Take that, you always-getting-everything-first-decadent-American-types!

  • March 25, 2002, 10:45 a.m. CST

    Your days are numbered, LOTR geeks!

    by Darth Blumpkin

    Oh you had your moment in the sun, but it's clouding up, dorks. Owen Lars' Farmer's Almanac predicts a torrential downpour that will clear theaters of all Ren-fair NERDS and lute-playing DWEEBS. That way, there'll be plenty of room for fans of the one TRUE trilogy! Yes, soon you'll all be relegated to a footnote in movie history, a blip on the radar somewhere between the rise of Yahoo Serious and the 80s mini-series "Amerika." Come May, all the precious copies of your favorite book will be sent to the back where it will collect dust along with the "Xanth" novels and old Yes albums. So tell, me how does it feel to have your parade rained on YET again by the greatest movie series in history?

  • March 25, 2002, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Keep Dreaming Fan Boys

    by Starbuck1975

    Two Towers and ROTK will never win Best Picture or Best Director, and the Academy is not likely to give Jackson the nod for LOTR as a body of work. Two Towers will disappoint most movie goers as the meat of that story is the relationship between Frodo, Sam and Gollum, hardly the material for attracting audiences. Not to mention that with Matrix 2, Spider Man, AOTC and other such big budget eye candy films, LOTR will all but disappear from the forefront of movie goers attention spans. Two Towers will not see half the business of FOTR, making expectations even less for ROTK, even if it is the best installment of the trilogy. Sorry fanboys, but last night the Oscars condemned LOTR as just another effects laden genre film.

  • March 25, 2002, 10:57 a.m. CST

    I'm glad LOTR only won 4 'technical' awards

    by Nagual

    ...because I loved the movie, thought it the best of the year and am confident the next two will be as good or better. To explain: Oscars are actually more often the 'kiss of death' for a movie's popularity and acclaim. The old proof holds true: in 5 years, you ask Joe Average who won Best Pic for 2001. I guarantee 9 of 10 people won't remember, and ABM will elicit "Huh?"s from almost everyone. LOTR is in good company. But there is still the (remote?) possibility that ROTK will rack 'em up, as it is the most powerful of the three stories and has the potential to devastate people. However, I make this bold prediction: Christopher Lee nominated for Best Supporting for TTT. :-)

  • March 25, 2002, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Elfkiller, my dear confused lad...

    by Nagual

    ...we are REALLY sorry Eminem turned your lyrics down, I know, it's got to be devastating to your precious silk-swaddled ego inside that Shrek-like braincase of yours. Maybe you can apply to for a position as George Lucas' colostomy bag changer?

  • March 25, 2002, 11:22 a.m. CST

    opie cunninghamm

    by jonleeus

    Oh well. Peter jackson was robbed,but ron howards work does deserve some accolades.[sp?]However, I am still disappionted with best picture,seeing as how jackson created a entire world,were as howard was retreading old "hollywood' sentiment.very excited for the two towers......maybe next year.

  • March 25, 2002, 11:34 a.m. CST

    Dry your eyes, Hobbit-lovers!

    by Darth Blumpkin

    You knew it couldn't last forever. Not with the grey wolf of AOTC stalking you, ready to tear out your THROATS in May! Yes, I know how hard it is...but don't worry. I'm sure Blackmore's Night has a new record out! That'll keep you codpiece-wearing GEEKS pacified while "Star Wars" steamrolls right over you! If that isn't enough, Medieval Times is always hiring! Oh you are a sad lot. With your Jester hats and tambourines. You had a lot of laughs at the expense of Star Wars, but now you see your film's day is over, while "Star Wars" time of glory has only just begun. Soon we'll find you guys in the record shops buying old "Tangerine Dream" LPs, or at the arcade, pumping quarters into "Dragon's Lair," or at the Ren-fair, playing Drench-a-Wench, hoping for your ONE shot at getting some action. Wherever you'll be, you won't talk so loud, will you? No, you'll just slink quietly on your way. Hey, I'm glad you had a chance to get out of the basement and see the world for a moment. But now it's time to go back to the world below. The sight of you is starting to turn our stomachs.

  • March 25, 2002, 11:39 a.m. CST

    So you finally got some ammunition

    by Buck Teeth Soh

    well long time coming, career trolls. So, a film that's on target for 300 million domestic and a totally silly amount worldwide, currently stabilising at 3rd best of all time at IMDB, already picked up a bootload of awards everywhere else and got 13 noms (that's a victory in it's own right) didn't pick up the top Oscar. I'm sure PJ is crying into his pillow (that's sarcasm for the hard of thinking). But I'm glad that after being a runaway success you finally got vindicated that Fellowship is in fact a bad film, like you knew all along. Oh yes, all those people who saw it as one of the only 2 films they saw all last year will now lose interest for the next big thing on a burger king carton. Your incessant whining has finally been worthwile, and FOTR is now officially a failure. See you next year, you sad, deluded losers. Seriously though, I'm up for a little side bet on who scores higher next year: Clones or Towers. Loser to receive cybercunnilingus from Harry.

  • March 25, 2002, 11:50 a.m. CST

    Darth Blumpkin, you know me so well it's uncanny!

    by wilko185

    How'd you know about my jester-hat and lute? Have you been stalking me at the Ren fayres? You're the dude in the cool cod-piece and tights, right? (In fact, I'm fairly sure I know exactly who you are.... ;-)). And thank's for confirming that it was AOTC which denied FOTR at the Oscars. Just think how much more powerful it will be when it actually comes out! _________ PJ won't thank the Fonz, but I bet he thanks Tolkien in his acceptance speech, should he win. I was pleased to note that the LOTR SFX guy thanked Tolkien in his speech, nice touch. So was that a typical awards show (I've not watched before)? It was surprisingly entertaining, some good speeches even (Poitier especially)

  • March 25, 2002, 12:05 p.m. CST

    "feel the pain fanboys"

    by fladnaG

    WHAT THE FUCK. Oh you silly silly person you. Starbuck1975 if you are not a fanboy what are you? A mocker of fanboy's? How pathetic is that. Let me guess are you still wearing a high school letter jacket and dreaming of those days when you "ruled the school". So you come to movie fan sites to mock the movie fans. Is this honestly how you get your jollies? You sad sad little man. I'd write more but its just all too easy and I hate to go into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Malaka.

  • March 25, 2002, 12:07 p.m. CST

    To Darth_Blumpkin and elfkiller8

    by cooldude

    Oh, yes. Not winning any major Oscars is going to destroy Lord of the Rings (yawn). You mean, just like a lack of major Oscars destroyed Star Wars? I mean, Lord of the Rings has only been selling tons of copies as a book for, oh, 50 or 60 YEARS. Oh, now it's all doomed. Woe is me! And if you want to talk about a gay storyline, how's this: 2 grown male companions go to a desert planet so they can take a young boy away from his mother and indoctrinate him in their ways. I'm sure you'll both let us know when you get pubes.

  • March 25, 2002, 12:17 p.m. CST

    trolling for trollers

    by hildebrand

    They are back, the ranters have come to the talkback, and we are so much better for it. My question is this: some of you have an amazing amount of knowledge about RenFair kind of stuff, is it because you secretly attend a good many of them? It amazed me how much some of you know about these things. I am impressed. Although it does lessen the impact of what you are trying to say. Nonetheless, wail away gentle people, you are entertaining, and I love listening to your hopeless devotion to George Lucas and anything he puts on the screen. You must have amazingly shallow lives, I pity you.

  • March 25, 2002, 12:27 p.m. CST


    by SCOTT1458

    dude, let me get this right. You, a Star Wars troll are making posts saying LOTR fans can finally get a life? Do you have anything better to do than to post the same comment several times?

  • March 25, 2002, 12:27 p.m. CST

    TTT gets 1/2 FOTR box office???

    by Rodan

    Starbuck1975 - please explain on what grounds you state that TTT will only take in ONE HALF of FOTR's total box office. I am very curious to see how compelling a case you can make.

  • March 25, 2002, 12:29 p.m. CST

    It was 25 years ago today...

    by RenoNevada2000

    that STAR WARS lost the exact same 4 big time categories its was nominated for that LOTR:FOTR lost- Supporting actor (Guiness), Screenplay, Director and Picture. And let's not forget how TPM was SHUT OUT for the three technical categories it was up for- Sound, Sound editing and Visual Effects. (Let's face it, no one was clamoring to nominate that screenplay or directing job.) Hey, it's nice to be awarded something by a group of your peers. (I should know as I was in a play that won a regional theater association award for best comedy production.) but ultimately it's what a majority of the public seem to agree on as to whether a film is a classic or not- The box office results seem to validate that many people have enjoyed the classic Star Wars trilogy and are currently enjoying LOTR. I find it sad that some people can't find enough love in their Grinchy-two-sizes-too-small hearts to like both franchises. Oh and elfkiller,Starbuck and Darth Blumpkin? Do us all a favor and snap your necks while trying to blow yourselves.

  • March 25, 2002, 12:30 p.m. CST

    Atticus, you ovbiously haven't read the book. . . .

    by thephantomcat

    . . . otherwise you would know that according to the timeline, the events at the end of the second book of The Two Towers happen after the events at the begining of Return of the King. Peter Jackson is staying true to the timeline that Tolkien obsessed over. I'm sorry if you have read LOTR, but maybe you should pay closer attention next time. Damn those Cliffsnotes versions, huh?

  • March 25, 2002, 12:42 p.m. CST

    Maybe you read the "dumbed down" version

    by Atticus Finch

    phantomcat...was Shelob in TTT book? Alright then.

  • March 25, 2002, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Ah C'mon, Quit Yer Bitchin', At Least LOTR:FOTR Got Nomi

    by NoCureForFools

    there was no way in hell it was going to win Best Picture. i was actually amazed it got nominated. it was a great adventure movie, and i really ewjoyed it, but it certainly wasn't even close to as good as Memnto or Amores Perros or In the Bedroom or No Man's Land. and another thing: look at it this way: the fact that it was nominated and won some of what i like to call the Best Other Shit categories means that Jackson is going to be rolling in money and attention, the LOTR are going to be around for a long time. don't look a gift horse in the mouth! **** now, in regards to TTT, i'm not really psyched at all. i'm much more psyched for this AOTC thign coming out this summer which looks like it's gonna be a blast. then, in terms of LOTR, the real shit comes down in ROTK, that its gonna be the bomb. i haven't read the books since i was a wee lad, but i remember being bored to tears with TTT, almost gave up n finishing it until some other GeekFriends told me to just slog through it cause ROTK is the shit. they were right. still more exicted about Star Wars though... i guess cause of all those subliminal messages that shot into my brain when i was 5 years old...

  • March 25, 2002, 12:52 p.m. CST

    Willow: The Two Towers and no Val Kilmer????

    by MrLimey

    Words simply cannot express the disappointment of no Madmardigan the the 2nd Willow sequel.What the hell is Jackson playing at? I mean Kilmer was his only chance of getting one of the decent Oscars in 2003.Oh well it looks like AOTC will be cleaning up next year.

  • March 25, 2002, 12:57 p.m. CST

    What I liked about last night, and what I loathed

    by Terry_1978

    Likes of mine: Denzel and Halle winning, Shrek winning(can you honestly say with a straight face that you preferred Jimmy Neutron and Monsters, Inc. to Shrek?!), Woody Allen's unprecdented appearance(I would have killed to see Soon-Yi Previn there), and Halle's speech. Dislikes of mine: Ian McKellan and Baz Luhrman's snubs, the circue de soleil, LOTR snub for best pic(though Moulin Rouge could have taken that one). Oh, and I can't wait to see Gollum as a main character...wheeeeee!!!!!!

  • March 25, 2002, 1:13 p.m. CST


    by steel_cultist

    What is this trailer going to play with? Please let us know so we can go drive up the box office for a bad film

  • March 25, 2002, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Best Pictures very seldom are.

    by Carson Dyle

    At the start of last night's Oscar telecast, Tom Cruise listed the three films that made the biggest impact on him when he was growing up: "2OO1: A SPACE ODYSSEY," "APOCALYPSE NOW," and "RAGING BULL"...three seminal works of art -- none of which won Best Picture. Ron Howard is a nice guy, and "A BEAUTIFUL MIND" is a fine film, but if I was Peter Jackson I'd rather be in the company of "loosers" like Alfred Hitchcock and Stanley Kubrick. , I suspect you'd prefer to be in the company of guys like

  • March 25, 2002, 1:55 p.m. CST

    Wasn't this trailer supposed to be showing ...

    by schreck

    ...this past weekend? Luckily my plans to go see the film again fell through, so I'll just wait a week. i double checked this site and a few others last week to be sure the date hadn't changed and none of them indicated it had. What the hell Harry? Why no update?

  • March 25, 2002, 1:59 p.m. CST

    No Shelob !!

    by Sprigga G

    Even without Shelob this film is going to be spooky stuff. Screw the many Oscars did Star Wars win?

  • March 25, 2002, 2:09 p.m. CST

    Did someone (gasp) read my talkback??

    by wilko185

    Hmm, Moriarty has changed the text of his story a bit. It now says "Faramir and Eowyn, and then two particularly striking shots of Arwen laid out as if dead" instead of the original reading "Faramir and Eowyn and Arwen laid out as if dead". So that's alright then.... __________ Why are bits from ROTK in the trailer, I wonder, if this really is the Houses of Healing? _________ Did elfkiller just admit he only has one friend? (Who's a LOTR fan, no less). Doesn't surprise me....

  • March 25, 2002, 2:15 p.m. CST

    of course Two Towers will be much of the same stuff as Fellowshi

    by a goonie

    for Moriarty and Harry and Quint and Father Geek and every talkbacker who claimed Fellowship was one of the greatest movies ever, then yes. Two Towers will be great for you. for me, Two Towers will be another, so-so three-star movie to look forward to. there will be no major advancements in CGI technology in time for the Two Towers or Return of the King releases. Lesnie's photography will continue to be inconsistent. Jackson will most likely stick some god-awful moment like the "Galadriel freaking out" scene in Two Towers. there will be some great sweeping helicopter shots, and some really bad quick dissolves. the book will once again be interpreted as an action movie, which it shouldn't be. and Sean Astin and Ian and Viggo Mortensen will again give inspired performances. that is all.

  • March 25, 2002, 2:16 p.m. CST

    There IS a new problem since FOTR didn't win Best Picture.

    by Big Dumb Ape

    As I seem to recall, New Line had their battle plan all mapped out to release and flood prints of FOTR back into theaters in order to attach the trailer to it. But in my town it's already gone from ALL the multiplexes and we have quite a few, let me tell you. I have access to 28 theaters in my immediate town alone -- and that's not counting the additional ones I can then easily drive to as well. But now that the movie DIDN'T win the Best Film Oscar (or any other major awards) how many theaters are really going to want to rebook the film NOW? It was pretty much played out and frankly, now it's NOT going to have any substantial new heat. So one thing's for sure, I'm betting that as the movie lost each of those major Oscars last night, New Line marketing were slumping in their seats and thinking "There go the rebookings." So I hope this is going to be a Quicktime download that's easily accessible to all because I doubt very, very much that I'm going to see it in a theater.

  • March 25, 2002, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Well, Ian McKellen Is A Homosexual...

    by NoCureForFools

    and he's also an incredible actor. isn't that what you should care about? who gives a fuck who he wants to have sex with? this is not the measure of a man or woman. in regards to the gayness of LOTR, one must admit, the elves are supposed to be understood as being bisexual and/or merely androgyous; also, i thought that little bit in the beginning of FOTR where Bilbo and Gandalf are enjoying their pot, with the boat going through the hole and all that, that this was a nod to both of their homosexuality (either as actors or characters) and, again, WHO GIVES A FUCK? is this how you evaluate a person's worth? if so, you are a fucking asshole AND are probably deeply gay yourself and overcompensate by hating those who are gay. and on the which is gayer debate, LOTR or SW, both of them contain characters who could be thought of as gay or androgynous: C3PO? gay robot! Legolas? gay (or merely androgynous) elf warrior. but again, who gives a fuck? if you have a problem with that, your probably deeply gay yourself. have a nice day.

  • March 25, 2002, 2:19 p.m. CST


    by Shaggins

    Now I am as big a fan as any of the LOTR but let's be honest. It isn't a genuine blockbuster, and New Line are as ridicuous as all the rings fans (if such a thing truely exists) - for buying into the belief that this was a phenomenon. How can you release a TTT trailer days after the hoopla of the Star Wars sneak peak thing and moments after your franchise has just gone down the pan? Do they think that this trailer will restore some kind of false sense of security to them? TTT will be lucky to make more than $90 million domestic, now. Lord of the Rings is a non-starter. Let's forget about it and wait for the real mogumbo (sp?) on May 16th.

  • March 25, 2002, 2:25 p.m. CST

    Good Will Cunting: The Taming of Elfkiller

    by nazismasher

    Please forgive my gentle bitch. I happen to be lenient toward it from time to time and hours of vigorous anal penetration tend to dull its wit - usually after some good LotR news I feel the need to celebrate and not being too particular, I just grab the first piece of ass in site.

  • March 25, 2002, 2:25 p.m. CST

    Gandalf GREYHAME *not* Grayhaven

    by Khakiass

    Greyhame is the appellation used by the people of Rohan.

  • March 25, 2002, 2:32 p.m. CST


    by Darth Blumpkin

    What annoys you more? The fact that I say the same thing all the time, or the fact that the more I say it the more you realize how true it is? You're a prime example of the teat-suckling mealworms that pollute this site. Face it, LOTR's day is OVER. It had it's chance and it's moment of glory and now the torch is out. Oscars mean nothing to me. What I'm saying is, quite simply, the sand in the 15 minute hourglass you D&D-playing DORKS carried around for so long is GONE. And it's now time for the REAL movie trilogy of the 21st century to step in. You think "The Two Towers" is going to get half the attention "Fellowship" got? HA! I think you're Robin Underoos are too tight. They're cutting off the blood supply to your brain.

  • March 25, 2002, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Not a blockbuster? Hah!

    by Khakiass

    Shaggins, so a film that's made $300 million domestically and another $400 million internationally is no longer considered a blockbuster? Hmm. Here's a nice side by side comparison with Harry Potter, Phantom Menace, and Titanic. Fellowship still has a lot of life left, and added 250 screens over the weekend. That's not even taking into account THIS weekends' push.

  • March 25, 2002, 2:46 p.m. CST

    I'm hoping...

    by Lardass_Hogan

    That the trailer will also debut online. That way I can see it in the theaters, then watch it again and again at home!

  • March 25, 2002, 2:58 p.m. CST

    the desperation of the trolls on here is hilarious!

    by minderbinder

    So lets see, LotR makes $300M domestic/ $800M+ worldwide, almost unanimous critical acclaim, and 13 oscar nominations with 4 wins...and somehow the franchise is dead? (and the franchise that will "kill it" was reviled by critics, got three nominations with ZERO wins???) People loved this movie and are dying to see the second one. You'd think people would have learned from the whole Fellowship experience...people who predicted a complete flop, under $100M domestic. But no, people are out to make asses out of themselves yet again. I guess that's why guys like basherkillsrrite changed their usernames to avoid the embarrasment, just like the current crop of trolls will do after the release of TTT. So who wants to bet on which has more oscar noms/wins next year, TTT or AOTC?

  • March 25, 2002, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Yeah, Miami...

    by Khakiass

    $485 according to that chart from last is amazing. And according to Jackson himself, this will NOT be online, at least not officially. It's meant to be tribute to the fans who have seen the film multiple times, to show them footage that will not appear even in other future trailers.

  • March 25, 2002, 3:02 p.m. CST


    by SCOTT1458

    dude, I never even READ the last book! I have no idea how it ends! I don't even like LOTR that much! Actually, I like Star Wars more, but seeing you here and before in other threads post the same shit over and over.....really makes me pity you. Have you nothing better to do?

  • March 25, 2002, 3:12 p.m. CST

    I'm Way More Excited About AOTC Too, But...

    by NoCureForFools

    WHO GIVS A FLYING FUCK? LOTR was cool! what the fuck was wrong with it? i'm a die-hard Star Wars fan and i'm not really all that excited about TTT, but I have to admit that FOTR was a much better film then TPM. FOTR wasn't nearly as good as ANH or ESB, but it was still a really well done adventure movie. i'd like to see AOTC be the greatest Star Wars film ever, but i have my reservations. i'm just being honest and objective, while clearly caring more about Star Wars, i can admit that FOTR was a better film than TPM. it's just the truth. it looks like AOTC may be better than FOTR, but, inthe end, does it really fuckin' matter? wouldn't it make more sense to enjoy both series for their merits, rather than fighting which is better or which is going to beat the other? it's fuckin' stupid! i mean grow the fuck up already. there wouldn't even have been a Star Wars without the LOTR books and there wouldn't have been an LOTR film series if it weren't for Star Wars, so get the fuck over it! damn!

  • March 25, 2002, 3:17 p.m. CST

    ElfKiller.. Jackass of the Year

    by Tonya_Harding

    How long has Elfkiller been bashing LOTR now.. two months? Half a year?.. have to give him credit though.. we don't see the likes of Basherkillsrrite and Darth Keith around claiming LOTR won't make over 50 mil or that only dice-throwing geeks are going to watch the movie etc etc.. Elfy is still around, bad grammar.. awful spelling.. lame gay jokes (are they jokes if they're not funny?) and flaccid, worthless comparisons to Star Wars.. doesn't care that nobody gives a shit about his opinion.. will never admit that he paid 8$ just like the rest of us to see the flick.. little Elfy, it's like you're part of the food chain, but nobody gives a fuck.. like sea horses or grubs.. and so the award for Jackass of the Year goes to.. ElfKiller8.. congrats bitch, you hit the bigtime.

  • March 25, 2002, 3:18 p.m. CST


    by Pingu87

    Gee how can i put this, I CANT WAIT TILL IT COMES OUT IN ENGLAND! but wounded for us we (ODEON) have not yet got any news at all regarding this trailer, have any of you? I CANT WAIT TO SEE IT! I mihgt have to get it on pirate instead! Ok then ill se you all late5r then have a good time and hurry the fuck up and tell me when its coming out over heree!

  • March 25, 2002, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Just Curious, ElfKillerA$...

    by LOTT

    How old are you? And please don't offer up a number over 21. A suggestion: start writing under a new pseudonym--the ElfKiller business has become stale and (usually) unfunny. I liked you better as "Mercier" or even "DrCool." As for the Oscars: big deal. ABM had a lock on the two big prizes from the moment Ron Howard decided to direct the movie with the perfect, Oscar winning title. Now FOTR is in good company with the likes of other Oscar nominated, classic losers (including SW and every movie ever directed by Kubrick). Incidentally, the only Oscar that Kubrick ever won was for Visual Effects (_2001_)! Can you believe that shit? Star Wars "was nominated for ten Academy Awards, and won in six categories: Best Art Direction/Set Decoration, Best Sound, Best Original Score (John Williams), Best Film Editing, Best Costume Design, and Best Visual Effects. Its other four nominations were for Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor (Alec Guinness), Best Director, and Best Screenplay Written Directly for the Screen" ( FOTR would have matched the 6 SW won if not for MR snatching a couple of them away last night. Eerie how similarly things worked out for FOTR, though... But since Jackson filmed the whole trilogy (of movies) at once, the Academy will be under a lot of pressure to match those 13 nominations it got each year for credibility's sake. My guess is that there's a decent possiblity, with that thought in mind, that ROTK could get the nod for Best Picture for 2003. I won't hold my breath, though. In any case, in 50 years no one will have ever heard of ABM (or Shakespeare in Love or Gladiator or FORREST GUMP) and LOTR (the book) will still be considered one of the greatest literary works of the 20th Century. My guess is that the movie adaptation will be remembered as a groundbreaking (if flawed) series of films. But it will definitely be remembered.

  • March 25, 2002, 3:35 p.m. CST


    by fladnaG

    Sure it is. Oh and Elvis, Kurt Cobain, Amelia Erhart, and JFK all live in the apartment next door to me. Seriously. Its fooking hilarious that some people on this site feel the need to hold on to their Jar Jar Binks plush toy, go on to the internet and yell at the top of their lungs "LISTEN TO ME. I'M SIGNIFICANT". If you didn't like LOTR, fine,thats your opinion. If you liked the first installment of the new Star Wars trilogy,thats fine as well. But for the love of God shut the fuck up. If you didnt like LOTR you know what you can do about dont you? You can cry, thats what you can do. "But LOTR has a lot of homosexual undertones and C3PO wasn't gay he was flamboyent and my dad could kick your dads ass sucka. Wait, where is everyone going, listen to me, please. hello is anyone still there?" Malaka's.

  • March 25, 2002, 3:49 p.m. CST

    elfkiller, shaggins, darth blumpkin - a challenge

    by hildebrand

    A direct challenge to you three champions of all things anti-Lord of the Rings: Can you write a well thought out critique of the movie without resorting to swear words or sexually explicit language? Elfkiller, are you man enough to accept the challenge? Or will you find some way to get out of answering a direct question? Or are you so unsure of your sexuality (it's ok, many 14 year olds are)that you cannot even fathom a posting to this site without trying to convince yourself that you are horrified of homosexuals. Shaggins and Darth Blumpkin, are you able to craft a sentence or two about why it is that you do not like LOTR without referencing Star Wars? Can you do it? Do you have the skill to write openly and honestly about your dislikes without cursing or using the words of others. (Honestly, the whole "Lord of the Rings isn't an action story" bit is straight from Ebert's review. Try for at least some originality in your posts.) I am calling you out, try your best. If you cannot, then I can only guess that you enjoy being trashed on this site. Quite a self-esteem problem you have, one would think, with that kind of self-destructive behavior. Nonetheless, step right up. Any takers?

  • March 25, 2002, 4:04 p.m. CST

    jgmflgfrgsplrglsplurt! AAAAGH!

    by solikat

    Fri-day! Fri-day! Fri-day! Fri-day! Fri-day! (senseless, zombie-like chanting to continue for the remainder of the week)

  • March 25, 2002, 4:09 p.m. CST

    Oscar Doesn't know Jack Shit from Jackson, Peter.

    by No. 6

    What happened last nite? yeah, I wanna see the TWO TOWERS trailer (and for those of you who want to change the name because of those goddam terrorists: keep out of it! The title is immaterial!), sure DEC 18 can't come soon enough, but the Academy really fucked up last eve. MIND getting PICTURE AND DIRECTOR!? No. No way. So not cool. DID YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY SEE LORD OF THE RINGS!? I saw Mind twice and LOTR 5 (six or seven coming Friday the 29th) times! Mind is great, don't get me wrong, and that first line that Nash says realy is pretty fun, ("There is a mathematical explanation for how bad your tie is.") but compared to the mighty passion, heart, and love that went into filming LOTR Trilogy, really, which is the better picture. Did they use Chad's to vote? I demand a recount! The cinematography, acting, design, direction, everything that was good about LOTR was overlooked. HAVE YOU ACADEMY "MEMBERS"(he-he) EVER TRIED TO EMOTE FROM UNDER POUNDS OF STICKY, BURNING PAIN-IN-THE-ASS MAKEUP FOR HOURS ON END? trust me, it's HARD!! (Especially during Shakespeare. Blast that rote, iambic pantameter, etc....grrr....)! These awards were a bigger sham than the battle between Pvt. Ryan and Shakespeare In Love. I will never watch the Awards again.

  • March 25, 2002, 4:12 p.m. CST

    So now..

    by Tonya_Harding

    Elfkiller8 is a proponent for justice from the Star Wars Talkbacks? Now his arguments aren't even based on LOTR's merits.. it's about "HIS" SW TB's being manhandled by handlebar-moustachioed Y.M.C.A RPG-playing LOTR TB'ers!! God, it's only now that his cause becomes becomes clear.. actually now I'm even more glad he's a SW fan and not an LOTR fan.. I'd be pretty embarrassed to be a SW fan with him on my side..

  • March 25, 2002, 4:13 p.m. CST

    Oscar Doesn't know Jack Shit from Jackson, Peter.

    by No. 6

    What happened last nite? yeah, I wanna see the TWO TOWERS trailer (and for those of you who want to change the name because of those goddam terrorists: keep out of it! The title is immaterial!), sure DEC 18 can't come soon enough, but the Academy really fucked up last eve. MIND getting PICTURE AND DIRECTOR!? No. No way. So not cool. DID YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY SEE LORD OF THE RINGS!? I saw Mind twice and LOTR 5 (six or seven coming Friday the 29th) times! Mind is great, don't get me wrong, and that first line that Nash says realy is pretty fun, ("There is a mathematical explanation for how bad your tie is.") but compared to the mighty passion, heart, and love that went into filming LOTR Trilogy, really, which is the better picture. Did they use Chad's to vote? I demand a recount! The cinematography, acting, design, direction, everything that was good about LOTR was overlooked. HAVE YOU ACADEMY "MEMBERS"(he-he) EVER TRIED TO EMOTE FROM UNDER POUNDS OF STICKY, BURNING PAIN-IN-THE-ASS MAKEUP FOR HOURS ON END? trust me, it's HARD!! (Especially during Shakespeare. Blast that rote, iambic pantameter, etc....grrr....)! These awards were a bigger sham than the battle between Pvt. Ryan and Shakespeare In Love. I will never watch the Awards again.

  • March 25, 2002, 4:15 p.m. CST


    by Darth Blumpkin

    Are you sucking on exhaust fumes? When did I say anything about reading ANY books? Or talk about how ANYTHING ends? You sure you're not replying to someone else's post? Please, sonny, if you're going to debate me, at least come prepared. And if you like "Star Wars" better than LOTR, WHY ARE YOU STARTING WITH ME? You are aware that we have the same taste in movies, yes? And you are aware that, if you don't like LOTR you have no argument with me, yes? OK, now go off and play with some soft toys.

  • March 25, 2002, 4:21 p.m. CST

    FOTR has been an amazing success.

    by MattO

    The film will end up with more than $900 million in worldwide gross, placing it right alongside TPM (FOTR will cross the $800 million mark by mid-week, with plenty of steam left in Japan, where it's only been showing for 3 weeks). Tens of millions of new Tolkien fans have been created. A film starring wizards, hobbits, elves, dwarves and magic rings has just won 4 Oscars, including Best Score and Best Cinematography. Tolkien book sales had an amazing resurgence over the past year, even topping the charts in such previously untouched markets as Japan. If this is "failure", you LOTR/FOTR-bashers, then I hope the same sort of failure is lying in wait for the next two installments. Let me do a little "bashing" of my own. The only reason FOTR didn't blow TPM to smithereens at the box office is that the fan base for Tolkien's work had to be developed by having people *PICK UP BOOKS* and use their imagination, while staying with a 1,000+ page story. Star War's fan base was far larger, because it's much easier to stare slack-jawed at a movie screen to "get the story", or hit the "play" button on a VCR. But now that LOTR is playing the "slack jaw", easy-access game- with the best DVDs ever issued soon to appear, and two more feature films- all things Tolkien will continue to gain fans at an exponential rate.

  • March 25, 2002, 4:32 p.m. CST

    How the HELL can you have a spoiler for a trailer ?

    by RobinP

    Get a fucking grip !!

  • March 25, 2002, 4:35 p.m. CST

    Actually, Friday Can Come Soon Enough. A Prophecy By Buzz "Nostr

    by Buzz Maverik

    On Friday, the sky will be rended open, unleashing an undulating crimson like blood from a wound. The Four Horsemen of The Apocalypse (Roy, Gene, Duke & Gabby) will ride forth to slay the first born sons and everyone who voted for Bush. Plagues of boils on everyone's genitals. Madness. Demonic possession. Talking and kissing in tongues. George Lucas and Peter Jackson having sex together! Is Friday really so worth looking forward to?

  • March 25, 2002, 5:34 p.m. CST


    by someoneelse

    why does everyone feel it is a war between stars wars and lotr. i love both and will see every movie in both series.this talk back which wa supposed to be about a review of a trailer has turned into star wars fans ragging on lotr fans vice versa,evry one hear should just calm down and realize both sets of movies have their merits and their can have your personal favorites but to insult each other intelligence because of a difference of opion is showing who the real idiots are.movies like these are meant to entertain and bring joy.not to start flame wars betweeen people to immature to realize people can have different opions. i now my spelling sucks but that is my peice. so hopefully some people here post on the topic.i for one can't wait to see both TT and AOTC

  • March 25, 2002, 5:38 p.m. CST

    I cant wait! i think ill cry!!

    by Ringer-MSS

    okay maybe not, but I CANT WAIT! ITS FINALLY HERE! im dragging my friends to go see it again on friday!!!! LOTR ROCKS! and for that potty mouthed dorkus-grande who said LotR has a bunch of gay inudenos (it doesnt have a single one) probably has a sick mind himself for thinking of such nonsense. thank you, i will go now.

  • March 25, 2002, 6:09 p.m. CST

    LOTR-bashers and their pathetic arguements

    by europop

    --- "You can always tell crappy visual effects because they hide them in darkness." --- This is what a LOTR basher said in the oscar thread, and it's been said by other bashers too. This is the lamest attempt at criticism I've ever seen. Imagine, if you will, a LOTR FX guy: "So what do we do about the effects in Moria? Do we make Moria into a place of light so that it doesn't seem like we're trying to hide the effects? Or do we spend extra time and money making the effects photorealistic, even though the setting is too dark to see anything in that much detail? Erm, Peter, why are you firing me?!!" --------- Also, you've got to love the "FOTR only got 4 technical awards proving it's a failure" drivel. LOL LOL LOL! How sad!! So I guess recent classics like The Shawshank Redemption or L.A. Confidential are crap too right? RIGHT? I hope LOTRs continued success causes all you bashers much pain and frustration over the coming years.

  • March 25, 2002, 6:30 p.m. CST

    I am not afraid...

    by StarUnlit

    I am not afraid to admit that reading the description of the trailer had me in sudden tears of joy and anticipation. Its just like Dec 19th again... realizing that someone had done what could not be done and made real the dream several generations have shared. Fans, this is our golden age come again. Fuck the Academy, fuck the idiot Star Wars fans and other cretins who wouldnt know genius if it ate their souls. Fuck them all, but Praise be to Jackson... the heir to Tolkien's throne. In years to come the as yet unborn fans of film will wonder about the early days of the 21st century with envy and mysterey... thinking how lucky the movie going public of the time were. How lucky we are. All that came before matters not... all that comes after, does not matter. There is only the masterpiece that is LOTR. And if you dont get it then you can burn in the fiery depths of Mount Doom for all eternity. I am unmanned by true happiness.... thank god...

  • March 25, 2002, 7:18 p.m. CST

    Lord of the Rings shouldn't have gotten the Oscar...

    by Cajun Lightning

    Cause it was only the first taste of greater things. The first book is easily the weakest of the three and they still managed to make a tight, amazing movie out of it. There is no reason to doubt that they did a great job with the other two as well. If they filmed it all at once on the same momentum, it's practically garunteed. That's why I just can't get myself that jazzed over Fellowship. It was a wonderful film but all it really did was get me chomping at the bit for what's next. I bet the Academy is thinking the same thing. A Beautiful Mind is a completed work. Jackson and company are just getting started. Lucky us.

  • March 25, 2002, 8:02 p.m. CST

    Return of the King might take a best picture oscar home (sort of

    by Tall_Boy

    Seen FOTR 3 times already but this trailer might end up making it a fourth. . .

  • March 25, 2002, 8:03 p.m. CST

    in LOTR you saw "trolls, elves sprites and fairies, just like on


    (or sitting next to Ian Mckellan) - Wonder if Gandy got pissed off at Whoopie's comments?. BTW - did any other actor even SEE LOTR? eg: Stiller, commenting on his DWARF costume, saying "I look dumb in this elf outfit". Whoopie also w/the feet calling herself an elf.

  • March 25, 2002, 8:31 p.m. CST

    Pud!....are you colour blind??

    by Sulaco

    Pud! says, and I quote.. "The very minute LOTR started losing and proud black actors like Denzel Washington, Halle Berry, Robert Redford and Sidney Poitier started winning, the racist Dungeon Masters started spewing racist garbage that they only won because they were all black. What a bunch of fucking losers!" You're a fucking loser mate, Robert Redford is white, cocksucker. By the way, the thing you said about LOTR fans being fat losers, Im slim very good looking and get more hot puntang a day than you get in a year.

  • March 25, 2002, 8:52 p.m. CST

    the academy sucks!

    by scratchy the elf

    those academy idiots wouldn't know a good movie if they were bashed in the head by it. go lotr for their 4 oscars booya

  • March 25, 2002, 8:57 p.m. CST

    LOTR So not dead

    by PythonFan

    Be quite OK how do you know it was New Line saying those things and not another studio. Even if it was you don't know that the people in the movie condoned of it. So you're being mean. So LOTR is not dead yet not even mortally wounded.

  • March 25, 2002, 10:08 p.m. CST

    What LOTR did you watch?

    by XfrodoX

    I know you ain't got the balls to talk like that face to face with people, and that makes you a coward. Obviously if you think the book is a racist book you either have never read it (this has my vote), didn't understand any of it (very possible), or are just an idiot. Whatever the situation you are an idiot.

  • March 25, 2002, 10:12 p.m. CST

    Oscars - who gives a rip

    by erichg

    For starters, Fellowship is indeed a great movie . . . I had it as a honorable mention on my list of Best Films of 2001. The critics who complain that LOTR is narrative heavy and difficult to follow over the first half of the movie are correct. Christ, there is a ton of backstory. However, the film is also a loving adaption that ultimately contains the same problems as the source material. Frankly, it was a lucky break that the movie garnered so many Oscar nods. Firstly, the Academy doesn't like fantasy films. Secondly, the above-mentioned quirks found in the flick are enough to hold it back. Having said that: ultimately, who cares about this craziness? How often does the Academy acknowledge the best movies of the year anyway? Ah, NEVER!!!Memento or Ghost World are just as deserving as any other best picture. Think of it this way: the Academy Awards included a Best Animated category and Waking Life was not nominated. That speaks volumes. Lastly, Fellowship is the weakest book in the trilogy. Point blank. Peter Jackson managed to turn it into a grand epic anyway. Not a complete homerun, but it's as close as anyone will come. As is the case with the books, the next two movies will be head and shoulders better than the first. So, for people who put stock in the Oscars: be happy that Fellowship was nominated at all. The next installments are going to rock. Perhaps those big awards are on the way. For people who could care less about the Academy Awards: hey, Fellowship is just another good film passed over come ceremony time.

  • March 25, 2002, 10:46 p.m. CST

    Pud! you silly bastard

    by fladnaG

    Just because he noticed that Redford isn't black doesn't make him a rascist. Being a non-rascist does not mean that all of a sudden you go color blind and everything is seen in grey. It means that you realize the equality of people of all colors. He was just pointing out the flaw in your statment. If he had said something like "hey Pud! Robert Redford isn't a nigger" instead of saying "hey Pud! Robert Redford isn't black" then he would be a rascist. Now hopefully nobody will take what I said out of context. Spread the peace people.

  • March 25, 2002, 10:48 p.m. CST

    Re: Pud

    by filmnazi

    I bet you also think that Halle Berry deserved the Oscar

  • March 25, 2002, 10:51 p.m. CST

    Am I allowed to say I think A Beautiful Mind deserved to win?

    by VespinFeebler

    Well, am I? Because I think that. Don't get me wrong, I also saw LotR 13 times and intend to see it again on Friday for the extra footage. But I believe that FotR didn't get the Oscar precisely because there are two more movies in the works. And Ron Howard and the others don't always get nominated, whereas Peter Jackson will get nominated for the next two years (we hope). To put my money on anything, RotK will take home the top Oscars. Both out of pity (a bit) and completion. And come on, it's tough competition this year: Road to Perdition, Catch Me if You Can, some dozen or so independent films I'll never see and of course this year's (as in 2001) best pic winner: Gangs of New-F***ing-York. God, bin Laden, if there's one reason I hate you, it's that you pushed it back and denied Martin the Oscar for another year! Speaking of Oscars, don't get me started on Denzel... All will be amended in it's time.

  • March 25, 2002, 11:16 p.m. CST


    by missy_circy

    I hate how each one of these topics suddenly become so damn political. There are so many hateful things that i read on this site. and frankly it gets old, folks. we're talking about movies here people. MOVIES!!! Go to some CNN website and talk about all of your political views. We are here to enjoy and discuss the art of film, not politics. REMEMBER THAT.

  • March 26, 2002, 12:01 a.m. CST

    Are you all drunk?

    by Darth Bad Guy

    Seriously. How can people be THIS pissed off about an imaginary battle between Star Wars and LOTR? And Pud bitching about LOTR's alleged racism? That guy's just screwing with us, right? Anti-Italian? Where did he get that? Is it because the hobbits are hairy? A lot of people are hairy. I'm pretty freakin' hairy. Are all Robin Williams movies anti-Italian? The guy's a damn sasquatch. And using the Oscars as a guage for future success or failure? If you knew what was good for you, you would have given up on the Oscars completely after the "Titanic" fiasco. A bloated, badly-acted romance novel superimposed over bastardized history. What's Leo been up to lately? Movies forgotten a week after they come out. Kate Winslet? Tabloid articles about "celebrity diet disasters." That old lady telling the story of her erotic experience? Who knows- dead, possibly. NEVER, EVER TRUST THE OSCARS! Do I like Star Wars? I've got "Darth" in my name. Do I like LOTR? Yes, and I think Lucas could learn a lot by watching those movies. Do I feel conflicted? Don't be stupid. I also like unwatchably pretentious art-house flicks, and trippy 70's cartoons. Please, please, surf sober.

  • March 26, 2002, 12:06 a.m. CST

    One last thing Pud!

    by fladnaG

    The reason that someone mentioned Redford not being black is because he was the odd one out. Its like saying you have four oranges and then producing three oranges and an apple. Someone is going to notice and say something. Also the only person making a big deal out of it is you who seems to want to find an excuse to call us LOTR fans rascist. Why do you feel the need to spread the hate? Just for your information I actually thought that Halle deserved the Oscar and I'm not at all disappointed that Denzel got one as well. Two very fine performances.

  • March 26, 2002, 2:02 a.m. CST


    by strages

    Despite starbucks' (among others) quite negative comments about TTT and RoTK, I don't think either one of the films will be a flop; in fact, I think they're just going to kick more ass - box office or otherwise. Seriously, Spiderman, Matrix 2, AoTC...they're not being released all at the same time, are they? And people are still going to watch the next one, because the first film was ended quite shrewdly - with an immense amount of suspense. Those are more or less the only reasons you gave, really, and I'm sure they won't affect the number of people who are going to see TTT. *shrugs* And whoever's saying Tolkienites are racists is an absolute idiot and a total hypocrite. :D Stereotyping (Tolkienites, or whatever you'd like to call us, is technically a stereotype) is just a milder form of racism. I don't see the grounds you're standing on. Elfkiller is an idiot. Mind numbingly so. End of story. :D A Beautiful Mind was simply the type of film the Oscars love, and when contrasted against LoTR (which still has two more sequels on the way), LoTR: FoTR's chances of winning any of the major categories were quite slim. Ian McKellen got fucked. he should have won the Best Supporting Actor Award. Halle Berry and Denzel Washington both deserved their awards. Kuods to them. ;) Whee, to end my long, wonderfully pointless talkback, I can't wait to see this four-minute preview.

  • March 26, 2002, 3:49 a.m. CST

    There's a reason I avoid posting now...

    by Victor_Laszlo

    And it's not the fact that I was once banned. It's that there are so many misinformed misanthropes here, you can't swing a wet tubesock without hitting one. I agree. Elfkiller is getting kinda boring. Where have all the good trolls gone? All we seem to get here are the adolescent guys who replace part of a movie title with a dirty word, and use the word "gay" as an insulting adjective. Why is it necessary to proclaim loyalty to just ONE movie franchise? Did I miss the meeting where they said we can only have ONE favorite movie? I was one of those that liked TPM and I loved FOTR. I will likely love AOTC, and I will love TTT. I will probably enjoy Spider-Man, too, and that's a franchise set for at least three films. Where are the Spider-Man fanatics? Why isn't there a horde of Spidey fans smack-talking Star Wars and LOTR? Grow up people. You're like the video game combatants. "Sega is better than Nintendo!" "Unh-uh! Sega kicks Nintendo's baby ass!" JUST SEE THEM ALL AND PLAY THEM ALL. Your budget isn't limited to ONE movie this year, is it? By the way, I loved LOTR and I absolutely LOATHE and DESPISE RenFests, and am not fond of Rennies at all. They're like carnies and hippies rolled into one. And as for LOTR not winning best picture... Well, wait and see. Ron was due after all these years. It was just politics. Same with Halle Berry (who is NOT a good actress, but is merely another Julia Roberts: Pretty to look at, but can't play much more than herself in her films.) The effects awards were cool, though. The technical stuff is enough for now. What that says is that LOTR had the best looking sets and effects, the best music, and was the best picture except for the fact that it didn't fit the formula. Look at Oscar history. You practically have to make a movie about being mentally disturbed or abused in order to get the Oscar. Next year's Oscar winner might as well be called "Oscar: Portrait of a Retard"

  • March 26, 2002, 4:07 a.m. CST

    Mori is fucking a great guy..absolutely fucking a great...wait a

    by Hung-Wei Lo

    Yes, Mori, you are ten times the writer Harry is. I don't mind your silly little faux stories as long as you don't write a novel before leading up to the goods. I could handle this article just fine, so thanks for keeping it short. Oscar bashers, get a clue -- don't watch that garbage. It does nothing but bring you closer to your favorite actors and realize that they are all a bunch of rich snobs that you wish you were, but never will be. LOTR bashers, get a life -- using the Best Picture Oscar as your argument for why LOTR sucks makes you more pathetic than those you are calling pathetic. By that rationale, you should all hail Halle Berry as the best actress of the year, and laugh at Sissy Spacek et al for being nothing but losers and runner-ups. Their performances are now OBVIOUSLY inferior because only one woman got the gold naked man. I'm really excited to see this Two Towers trailer, but instead of dropping nine bucks on it, I think I'll wait for the quicktime download. Yes, I have control of my senses. You antsy people who just CANNOT WAIT FOR THIS TRAILER need to lay off the masturbation for a few days. It'll do you some good.

  • March 26, 2002, 4:26 a.m. CST

    Sir Ian robbed?

    by Billy Talent

    No, he's done much, much better work playing Iago and Macbeth among other characters on stage, and in films such as 'Gods & Monsters' and 'Richard III'. Steve Buscemi should have gotten Best Supporting Actor, but since he wasn't nominated it should have gone to Ben Kingsley.

  • March 26, 2002, 6:03 a.m. CST


    by RobinP

    I pretty much stand by what I said. Posting spoiler warnings for trailers is pretty lame. trailers are by definition advertising tools to sell the idea of seeing the movie to the audience. They have to retain the plot's mystique for that to work. So, given your attitude that you wish to remain totally spoiler free, a question....why are you here reading this news item. You were warned there'd be spoilers. When you're at the movie theater and the trailer comes up, will you run to the bathroom with your hands over your ears ? When the tv spots start up, will you bury your pompous head in the cushions ? Fact is that most interested parties have already read the books and know exactly what comes next anyway !!

  • March 26, 2002, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Black is the winner


    did the nominees color influence voting? of course. The media hype, Poitier in the house, etc? of course. if you disagree you are naive. or an idiot. or both. does that mean berry and washington did not deserve to win? of course not, so don't get your panties in a knot. there were many that 'could' have won. did the fact that crowe had just won last year, and that beautiful mind was sweeping the biggies, and that washington was in the same league, and black was a bonus, did all that influence? yes. no different than the fact that ron howard was due, it was a good movie, jackson will be back next year, and the next, or at least a special acheivement awards on the way, did that have anything to do with it? yes it did. So what. Live with it. It goes both ways, or else you wouldnt hear so much "it's about time blacks won" instead of "halle was way over due, or denzel was way over due". No. you hear "blacks are over due". the color issue goes both ways. you want to really play the race card? take a look at native americans. now there's a group that got the royal screw. WTF is up with that?

  • March 26, 2002, 1:11 p.m. CST

    elfkiller8 bare naked with a girl!

    by cooldude

    No, wait! That's Darth_Blumpkin getting out of that dress! Oh wait, here comes Shaggins. Wear each others' anuses out, you bitches!

  • March 26, 2002, 1:34 p.m. CST


    by Bozzchops

    Why did Beautiful Mind win?? Because half of the Acadamy gives their cards to their wives to fill out, (Acadamy members are documented admitting that they've done this) and the other half of the Acadamy is already women. Opie Taylor does schitzo?!? Give me a fucking break! What a sad pathetic movie. The greatest injustice of the night was Ian getting robbed for best supporting actor by that cheese dick fucknob old guy who couldn't act his way out of a paper bag. LOTR RULES ALL. Anyone who doesn't know this leads a sad, meaningless, little life. As for Pud, are you some kind of imbacil? Why would LOTR sling shit about actors who won a catagory LOTR wasn't even nominated for? Fucking idiot. Question to all LOTR lovers. Do you think when all is said and done, they will make the prequel? Think about all the money that will made by the trilogy. They would be foolish not to make The Hobbit with the same gusto as LOTR. And it's a no-brainer that Lord Jackson could pull it off (all hail).

  • March 26, 2002, 2:43 p.m. CST

    Come on, guys...

    by SaintStephofBree

    Fellowship of the Ring kicked a whole lot of ass. We know that. Personally, I thought A Beautiful Mind was an awesome movie. As totally spectacular a film as FotR was and is, we all know that the best is yet to come! I would rather have Peter and the team get the big awards for some dope-ass work on T2T or RotK. FotR was awesome, but the other two just rocked my world. Give Ron Howard a break! He did awesome, and as much as Peter deserved it, he's got two bigger chances coming up, and I'd rather have him win then, then just getting dissed later.

  • March 26, 2002, 3:18 p.m. CST

    On Halle Berry: I am sick of all these...

    by filmnazi

    PC spewing banshees with a complete lack of ability to think freely, and the inherent insight of pineapples. Halle Berry is an embarrasment, what was so signifigant about her winning? It is almost detremental. Halle Berry? C'mon, look at her. Yeah, she was really God-damn good in monster's ball, hell she is talented, and beutiful, but she wasn't even as good as Billy-Bob who wasn't even nominated. On top of that, if she didn't go bitching and moaning and playing the race card 24//7/365, she wouldn't even have been nominated by those buffoons who run the academy. Who is she kidding? She is a drop-dead gorgeous, paper-thin super-model, who has shit handed to her because of this. Je-sus it just makes me so fucking mad. Can't she be gracious about it? She is so goddamn solipistic! Does she think she broke down the walls for Black Women? That is a fucking joke! LOOK AT HER. What a travesty! First of all she is half white, which of course I have NOO problem with, so don't think about attacking me on that. But, think of the message that sends to other Black women, to have her up there talking like that, is that what you have to look like to succeed as a African American female? I'd be fuming! But the shitheads in the academy who nominate such bulbous pieces of crap like a beutiful mind and titanic are sooo goddamn myopic. They only forsaw Halle crying her crocadile tears, and thanking them. Give me a break, GIVE US ALL A GODDAMN BREAK!

  • March 26, 2002, 3:55 p.m. CST

    To the Pud Knockers

    by Flim

    If you try to recognise that people of different colours are the same, you are a racist. They are not the same, it's the differences that make it interesting. Everyone is a racist, it's a fact of existence. Some people are just more racist than others. And as for Robert Redford, he's my nigga.

  • March 26, 2002, 3:56 p.m. CST

    Elanor, it seems to me, RobinP

    by RobinP

    ..that we may have jumped down each other's throats prematurely. When someone says "trailer" I figure they mean one of those commercials that pop up in front of other movies and we're saturated with on primetime tv. The are practically inescapable !! If what they mean is "Preview" they should have damn well said preview which is a whole totally different can of worms. I meant no real insult, just wondering how one would go about avoiding a trailer, were one a regular moviegoer or tv viewer. Does that clear the air ? Peace ?

  • March 26, 2002, 5:08 p.m. CST

    Pud's Washington Post Article Claim

    by ArPharazon

    Pud, please post the date and section of the Washington Post article you claim fingers New Line for spreading the rumors about A Beautiful Mind. I want to read the article to see if what you claim has any truth. If there is no such article and you made that accusation up, then, in my book, your credibility is dead and I won't waste any more of my time reading your drivel. If what you're saying has some truth and there is such an article, then I'm disappointed in New Line. And this disappointment would be coming from a life-long LOTR fan who really wanted to see a fantasy epic, for the first time, win best picture. My disappointment will not keep me from seeing TTT and ROTK, but it will make me think twice about seeing other New Line films. On a side note, in my opinion, it was a crime to give best costume design to Moulin Rouge. A competent costume designer could raid a thousand old closets from a thousand other "musical" movies and make a few modifcations to come up with the costumes from Moulin Rouge. It took an ingenious, meticulous, innovative costume designer to create the costumes in LOTR. I was amazed at the level of detail, from the gauntlets embroidered with the White Tree of Gondor worn by Boromir, to the distinctly dwarven helmet and handmade chainmail worn by Gimli. Without question, the best costume design award should have gone to LOTR. It sucks that the movie with the "more pretty colors" in their costumes won for no other reason.

  • March 26, 2002, 5:16 p.m. CST

    LOTR vs SW

    by Bozzchops

    To say one is better than the other is an impossible comparison to make. Yes, they're both sports, but completly different games, if you take my drift. Personally, it blows me away how any serious book/movie lover could dislike either. Certainly personal preference will usually dictate that one is preferred to the other, in my case LOTR. But thats not to say the Star Wars movies aren't 'personal favorites as well.

  • March 26, 2002, 6:21 p.m. CST


    by Shaggins

    Yes, this is a simplistic comment coming from a simpleton, but sometimes simple is good. Here is some simplicity: LOTR failed. Can't get simpler than that! The simple truth is that the Clone War trailer on its own is better than the entire LOTR trilogy. How do I know this? Well I like to keep things simple and take a simplistic view. It's really not difficult. FOTR was simply not good enough to recieve any worthwhile awards. I like to tell the truth. It's fun and it hurts people. :)

  • March 26, 2002, 6:36 p.m. CST

    There's a REAL movie on may 16th

    by Shaggins

    Now while I am the biggest rings fan on the net I have to say that I am sorely dissappointed with quality of Jackson's work, and find that his snub by the academy was fully justified. FOTR was designed TO BE a blockbuster. In my book that is plain wrong. You should make a good movie, put it out and hope that people like it - in that order. It's like going on a date. You don't pretend to be someone you're not if you want a spousally blissful future. This is why there are people with such glee seeing the abject humiliation of this "franchise." Face it. Nothing , and I mean NOTHING can match or compete with the authority of Star Wars in this genre of filmmaking. It was sheer petulance to attempt to do so with something as inane as Tolkien's boring "classic."------------------------------------ "Fuck Tolkien!" - Bilbo Shaggins 2002

  • I mean, y'all can bitch all you want about the (piddling) 4 oscars LOTR won, but where are yours??

  • March 26, 2002, 9:17 p.m. CST

    What do you know, Shaggins?

    by exPFCWintergreen

    LOTR was not designed to be a regular blockbuster. They wanted it to make a shitload, of course. They only thing "blockbustery" about the movie was the fact that it was a tad heavy on the action side of things. That said however, LOTR: FOTR was unlike any blockbuster I've ever seen. Everything from dialogue to characterizations. Merry and Pippin were there for comic relief, yes; but they didn't (as they would in most blockbusters) say, "Dang, that is some scary shit" every time they saw a cave troll or Balrog or something. Their comic relief was well timed and appropriate. The language in the movie was hardly at all dumbed down from the book, most screenwriters trying to make a "blockbuster" would have modernized the dialogue. LOTR also had better acting then any designer blockbuster I've ever seen. So shut up, and don't be so bitter that they cut up your fav book.

  • March 26, 2002, 11:33 p.m. CST

    Silly People

    by Sarge

    I find it hilarious that people still continue to read things into the LOTR stories that are simply not there, like political issues or WW II or social commentary. I even read a post where someone claimed that "orcs" were Itallian (!) and so the book is racist. Orcs are boogie men from the days when Old English was spoken and ( wonder of wonders!) Tolkien was a Professor of Old English at a University ( Oxford?) in England.(LOTS of the words he uses in his novels come from the ancient tounges of the British Isles ) Most often I see people attempting to draw parallels between the War of the Ring and WWII. In an interview someone asked Tolkien that very question and his answer, as best as I can recall, was that if he had so intended it the trilogy would have ended much differently with a detente between Gondor and Mordor, with the forces of the West keeping the Ring, which would be an allegory for the atomic bomb, and used as a deterrent against the aggression of Mordor. It seems some folks just don't want to believe in a simply dang good story, with concepts like courage, struggling against temptation, putting yourself in danger for a great cause, and where 'duty' is not considered just a four letter word :-). These novels actually champion ideas that you can adopt into your life that will make you feel much better about who you are and what you have done with your life, because they are the ideas that have been championed and cheered in the best loved stories as far back as humans have been recording stories. They have been repeated time and again through the centuries because they are the values we all like to have in us, I think. Everyone can understand them. In my own personal opinion folks who appreciate and esteem such values, and attempt to imitate them, make the best neighbors.

  • March 27, 2002, 12:07 a.m. CST

    What I don't understand...

    by BillyHo

    What I'll never understand about the Academy is how they can look at a movie with 13 nominations, in a variety of categories, and decide that it is NOT the best movie of the year. Granted, several of FOTR's nods were in technical categories, it also got nods for acting, directing, song, editing, cinematography, the list goes on. With such a wide variety of categories and the shear number, how can anyone say it wasn't the best. For the record...I saw ABM, and didn't care for it (although I am a Opie Cunningham fan). I'm not complaining but I think FOTR should have won.

  • March 27, 2002, 12:12 a.m. CST

    "orc" is Italian...

    by Darth Bad Guy

    Most of the made-up languages in LOTR are based on some real life source. So, by the logic you've represented, basing a word for "bad things" upon an Italian word makes him anti-Italian. The Elvish languages are based on, among other things, Gaelic. Almost all the names used in the novel, good and bad, are derived from some Elvish dialect or another. So, is he therefore promoting the Irish when it's applied to a "good" character, and then degrading them seconds later when discussing something bad? Even Mordor- source of many of the accusations of racism for meaning "Black Land"- is an Elvish word. So does that make Tolkien anti-black? Anti-Irish-Gaelic? Anti-Elf? None of the above? Was Tolkien himself a racist? I don't care, he could write much better than I can. Were his books racist? Not overtly; you'd have to seriously over-analyze. Will the movies be racist? Very doubtful, if the people involved value their careers, fans, and paychecks. -IF- the racial prejudice was in the books, it wasn't a big enough deal to spark bad press or hurt ticket sales, and it certainly would have been removed before the script was finished. But as this discussion has proven, one can find "metaphors" of any conflict in any story, with sufficient imagination on the reviewer's part.

  • March 27, 2002, 12:52 a.m. CST

    Uh, Pud!....

    by Lazarus Dream

    Robert Redford is black?

  • March 27, 2002, 4:58 a.m. CST

    So, Pud,

    by Buck Teeth Soh

    What you're saying is you have no evidence. Anybody else see this, or are you putting your own spin on it? By your somewhat feeble logic, Tolkien is anti-whale because "orcs" = "orca", also a plural term. Or anti-William Blake, who put a character called orc into several books. Ach, why do I bother. Isn't there a dick somewhere that needs your attention?

  • March 27, 2002, 5:36 a.m. CST

    what is PUD talking about?

    by eustace

    Dear Pud. I relly need to comment on the above statement which you wrote on 25/3. I really think that you have issues regarding racism. The only reason you feel that racism was an issue during the Oscars is that people like Whoopi Goldberg, and Denzel made it an issue by keeping on and on about it. I am not racist, and I was made to feel very uncomfortable by all this 'mud slinging'. Like Halle Berry said, I'd like to live in a time where it wasn't a big deal when coloured people got nominated for best actor, and people didn't make a big deal out of it. You do know that the comments you made are bordering on racism don't you. And about Tolkien's books being racist- have you even read them? No I didn't think so. He is a genious and I really don't think that he wrote one of the literary classics of our time with racism in mind. And the comment you made about all people who like lord of the rings being fat and ugly, that only makes you a shallow person.I am neither, fat nor ugly, I love Toliens work I think they are beautifully writen, and for someone who hasn't even read them to comment on them really pisses me off! If you hate Lord of The Rings and Tolkiens books so much, why bother comming on this websitr only to write shitty things about them you muppet!

  • March 27, 2002, 9:38 a.m. CST

    pity them...

    by hildebrand

    Fellow talkbackers, you are feeding the beast as of late. Whenever you strike back at Pud, Shaggins, Darth_Blumpkin and their ilk with similar venom, you energize them. They live for your threats and insults, that is how they derive pleasure. They want to make you mad enough to spout invective back at them, for only by receiving such negativity can they feel anything in this life. They are broken, shattered people, and they need our pity, our compassion and our tenderness. Overwhelm them with kindness, for in the end, that is what they truly need, and truly fear. Let us all, who wish to take part in this talkback, vow to only respond to them with grace, dignity and humility. Treat them kindly and watch how fast they retreat.

  • March 27, 2002, 9:56 a.m. CST

    shaggins, by your definition, tons of classic movies "failed"!

    by minderbinder

    "LOTR failed...FOTR was simply not good enough to recieve any worthwhile awards." So by your logic, SW also failed (no best pic, supporting actor or director). And what does that make TPM, which had three lowly technical nominations and "failed" to win any? Don't be ridiculous, you're also saying movies like Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Wizard of Oz and Citizen Kane "failed".

  • March 27, 2002, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Shaggins, Pud, and every other faggot with "Darth" in their name

    by Bozzchops

    If you all would pull your dicks out of each other's asses long enough to allow any blood back in your brain, you would see how pathetic you have become, and how little sence you make. Pud has YET to provide any proof of his claims, Shaggins claims to be the biggest LOTR fan on the net, and in his next breath says "fuck Tolkien" !?! What the hell is that?? As for all you "Darth idiots", go home and bang yourself with your little plastic light sabers, cause NONE of you fucks will ever be taken seriously or have your opinions validated by ANYONE on this forum who knows what they're talking about. Question of the day: Where do the Elves go when they leave Middle Earth??

  • March 27, 2002, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Bozzchops-Elves don't die ,

    by eustace

    they sail to the West from Grayhavens and they just carry on living there, it's where they originally came from. That's why Galadriel lives in Middle Earth. She was banished from the West for her part in a rebellion, and in FOTR when she turns down the ring and says "I pass the test, I will diminishand go into the West and remain Galadriel", that means she's proven herself worthy to return. The Silmarrilion explains it much better than I ever could. By the way I totaly agee with your comments on Pud, Darth &co. However I'm still at a loss as to why they would waste their energy on us "Tolkienites" and return to squeezing their pre-pubescent zits, or whatever else kids do.

  • March 27, 2002, 12:48 p.m. CST


    by Bozzchops

    You WIN!! Elves never die, of natural causes that is, or unless they relinquish their mortality of their own accord. But they don't ALL go to the Greyhavens, I happen to know of a few living right here in La Crosse Wisconsin! tee-hee On another note, I appologize to the other serious users of this forum for my nastiness in my last post. Hearing people bash Tolkien's work just makes my blood boil. I guess I just have to accept that not everyone has the capacity to appreciate the work of a genius. But for those who can't there is always Dr. Seus.

  • March 27, 2002, 1 p.m. CST

    To Pud, and those who agree with him...

    by Ivy-Rose

    Pud, that was so horribly, disgustingly twisted I just had to say something! It is comments like that that CREATE deeper racial bounderies... in fact, I'd even go as far as to say that you are rascist yourself. Going by your current reasoning, medievil ad pre-medievil Europe was racist, because there was no coloured people there! Let me Explain. You have to remember the time this book was set in, as well as Tolkien's intrest in Medievil EUROPEAN times, and Middle English. He was a professor teaching this. This was a time when a very large portion of the world hadn't been discovered by these people. The main reason Tolkien WROTE these books was to use his complex and advanced knowledge of these times. It wasn't racist as such, but you need to judge it by medievil (and even before that) European standereds (since that is what it is closest to). Plus, even in modern-styled flicks, you mightn't see a coloured person, but that doesn't, by any standereds, mean it is against coloured people. I'd even suggest, that what is worse is just putting a coloured person in a movie because of their colouring. I'll leave you to think about that. (That is, if you ever come back here again.) ps>> I'd like to have a word to all you dis-junkies. Just post on your own message boards, ok? Why not spend time on something you love, instead of someting you so obviously dislike? It's just common sense.

  • March 27, 2002, 1:43 p.m. CST

    LOTR IS Racist..Tolkein intended it to be

    by KerriBerri

    Those of you who are touting LOTR as racists are dead on..but obviously, this is a literary aspect of the novels that you blundered into with no real understanding of what you've come up with. Tolkien intended LOTR to be's a political commentary on WWII Europe...The Elves, Dwarves and Humans represent the allies and the bad guys are ,of course, Nazi Germany and Musolini's Italy ( hence orc being an Italian word).This is just another literary device Tolkein used to allude to his own closely-held political beliefs. Also, Tolkein does rely very heavily on Gaelic in his novels.He himself said he ws writing the novels to give The British Isles their own mythology like the Romans and Greeks because most of the British mythology was lost after the Norman invasion. I know this may be pretty hard for some of you to grasp since reading is such a foreign concept to you but Tolkein said so himself. Please, it would be all the more interesting for us if you would put a little effort behind your mindless dribble and do a little research. That way when we decimate you LOTR bashers the victory will be all the more sweet. Also, please note the absence of profanity,sexual innuend and racial expletives from my talkback. Profanity is the last refuge of a feeble mind...thank you

  • March 27, 2002, 2:17 p.m. CST

    Pud, Shaggins, Elfkiller(insert number)

    by Scott Ellison

    Many, many moons ago someone said, "Please, don't feed the trolls." Wouldn't it be fun to irritate them by pretending they didn't exist. Then they would flay harder and harder to try to get our attention. I imagine it would be quite entertaining, does anyone disagree?

  • March 27, 2002, 3:02 p.m. CST

    fuck this noise already boys!!

    by 2cheeky

    shaggins, pud,elfkiller no number required, and atticus, man will you all just fucking let us up? I have yet to encounter a more primitive, bitchy, anal retentive(thought y'all were... ahem.. HANDLING that), undereducated, and generally just totally fucking beyond moronic bunch of little boys . I mean, compare penises and piss trails elsewhere. We don't need to be inflicted with that.

  • March 27, 2002, 5:42 p.m. CST

    All I want to hear is this: New Line go bankrupt

    by Shaggins

    Why not? It would be fun to have the LOTR trilogy unfinished as well as humiliated. Am I being too hostile? I say this next mildly positive thing under duress (I am forced to live up to my sarcastic claims to be a rings fan): "LOTR is only just average!" Sorry but I can't give it any more than that. Tell a lie! I can. It's about as good as Harry Potter and the Philospher's Stone. :)

  • March 27, 2002, 7:11 p.m. CST


    by Buck Teeth Soh

    Tolkien stated time and again that he did not intend his work to be seen as any kind of allegory, least of all for WWII. Come back tomorrow and I'll post the link to a great little interview from 1967 - it's at work. But I'll reiterate. It's meant to be a s-t-o-r-y. If anything, a framework for his languages. PS Choke on a turd, Shaggins. You'll wait a long fuckin time to get your wish

  • March 28, 2002, 12:48 a.m. CST

    LOTR Bashers

    by loveslij

    Why don't you give it up? Seriously, it's *OK* to not like LOTR, but it's completely pointless to mindlessly bash it. At least come up with some logical arguments, don't scream about about how LOTR is a loser film which is liked only by losers. Losers that you just "HATE", ones that play lutes and dance around like idiots... That's a really great argument, wow, that sure makes me want to listen to what you want to say... namely, I speak to DarthBlumpkin, Pud!, and elfkiller. Take a look at what you're really saying. Oh, and that whole swearing every other word thing really impresses me, too. That's something I feel I could simply never hope to do. My poor, inadequate mind can't handle such a task. On another note I'd like to point out that I wholeheartedly agree with Khakiass, jonleeus, and MattO. Also, while I dont agree with everything Kurosawa's Ghost says, I respect it completely, because of the way he says it. Another note to the mindless bashers: Take this website's advice... "Post away, but remember: you're our guest, so please don't be a bastard. Blatant abuse, personal attacks, and hate speech will not be tolerated. In other words, don't be a jerkwad loser. Being a jerkwad loser will get you kicked."

  • March 28, 2002, 1:45 a.m. CST

    LOTR : FOTR had a...

    by holoholojoe

    buzz factor cause it was a "new trilogy". people were intrigue to experience this supposedly new world. the proof of how popular LOTR is will be in TTT, i don't think it will ring up the same amount of $$$ as FOTR, i know of many of my friends who watched FOTR that will NOT watch TTT. "been there-done that" if anything, they can wait for the video. the special effects were not dazzling enough, nor were the character developments. it just an okay movie, dunno, the jury's still out..even for AOTC, i don't think it will surpass TPM..unless it's a really great movie..=================================================================== oh, for the fellow that said he got the ripped copy of FOTR off kaaza, next time someone rips off your hard work, think of it as payment for your illegal copy of FOTR, karma baby, just wait..

  • March 28, 2002, 4:25 a.m. CST

    KerriBerri, SpacePerve said it

    by wilko185

    Read Tolkien&#39;s foreword to LOTR, where he spells out exactly how and why the book WASN&#39;T an allegory for the contemporary political situation in Europe (or anything else). _______ <sigh> And I&#39;ll repeat (not for the benefit of Pud, who&#39;ve I&#39;ve pointed this out at least twice in the past, but any open-minded readers) "orc" is an Old English word meaning something like "demon". It was used in Beowulf, and was apparently used as a synonym for "goblin" by Lord Dunsany, a fantasy author writing slightly before Tolkien. ______ Thank you and good night.

  • March 28, 2002, 7:45 a.m. CST

    not that certain ones of us would have noticed...

    by 2cheeky

    but Tolkien was one of the leadin historians of his time, and was cosidered to be one of the foremost experts on beowulf in the world. Not that he ever did claim to have the stories be allegorical, he did in fact, like many truly great authors, use much of what he knew and experienced in his life, things like WWII and Beowulf, upon which to create what he wanted to be known as a Western European mythology, of which there really is no tradition. But here&#39;s the key, folks-MYTHOLOGY. It isn&#39;t real, wasn&#39;t intended to be, and the fact that people can so blatantly denigrate the work of one of the leading Oxford scholars of the world with a mail order diploma is utterly Fucking absurd. Jerkwad I may be, but there it is...

  • March 28, 2002, 8:06 a.m. CST

    In case anyone is still watching

    by Buck Teeth Soh

    here&#39;s that link: tolkien-interview.html take out the space before tolkien. He talks quite candidly about allegory halfway down. For the record, I&#39;d like to see that "folklore for the British Isles" quote because I suspect it&#39;s a misquote. Tolkien was a smart enough scholar to know that the folklore tradition was, and is, alive and kicking (although I met a jackass once who reckoned if it wasn&#39;t in the Golden Bough, it wasn&#39;t worth knowing).

  • March 28, 2002, 10:28 a.m. CST

    Tolkien and his kids

    by Bozzchops

    Bottom line is, Tolkien wrote for his children. Before they EVER became books, the stories of hobbits and middle earth were bed time stories for his kids. Tolkien adored and lived for his kids. If you want to understand more about Tolkien and what kind of person he was, read the book "Letters From Father Christmas". This is a book put together by Tolkiens daughter I believe, consting of the magical and mystical letters and drawings his kids received from him each year at christmas" Quote of the day; "It&#39;s dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don&#39;t keep your feet, ther is no knowing where you might be swept off to."

  • March 28, 2002, 10:33 a.m. CST

    new line go bankrupt? how desperate are you trolls?

    by minderbinder

    FotR made enough money to pay for all three movies, the trilogy is profitable even before 2 and 3 are released. The money needed to finish these is already in PJ&#39;s hands.

  • March 28, 2002, 11:36 a.m. CST


    by Buck Teeth Soh

    I&#39;ve read most of Dunsany&#39;s fantasy, and I don&#39;t ever remember finding the word orc. But heres a quote from barmy genius poet William Blake: "Orc, who serpent-form&#39;d/ Stands at the gate of Enitharmon to devour her children;/ Blasphemous Demon, Antichrist, Hater of Dignities;/ Lover of wild rebellion, and transgressor of God&#39;s Law" (AMERICA 7:3-6)

  • March 28, 2002, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Spaceperve may be right

    by KerriBerri

    You&#39;re probably right. I saw a thing on Tolkein on A&E that mentioned he was writing an allegory but the show was mostly over his talents as a linguists so it may have just been conjecture. However, I stick by my statement hat Tolkein was writing a mythology for the British Isles which would definently explain his favortism of the Gaelic language. Although, your reply was a little condescending I would like to thank for not completely ripping me a new one.

  • March 28, 2002, 3:05 p.m. CST

    Knowledge, Pud,

    by Stub

    is dangerous without wisdom.Orc: Orcneas in beowulf. An Orc-giant derived from the word orcus. Oxford English Dictionary "... His term orcneas, a hybrid composed of a Latin word for "infernal demon" and a Germanic word for the walking dead, epitomizes the dual perception of the monsters." Fred C. Robinson Beowulf and the Appositive style 1985 page 83 "eotenas ond ylfe ond orcneas swylce gigantas" -Old english "etins and elves and orcs such giants" -translation Beowulf lines 112-13 "A different word orc, alluding to a demon or ogre, appears in Old English glosses of about AD 800 and in the compound word orcneas ("monsters") in the poem Beowulf. As with the Italian orco ("ogre") and the word ogre itself, it ultimately derives from the Latin Orcus, a god of the underworld. The Old English creatures were most likely the inspiration for the orcs that appear in J.R.R. Tolkien&#39;s The Lord of the Rings trilogy." Encyclopedia Britanica "Dis Pater (Latin: Rich Father), in Roman religion, god of the infernal regions, the equivalent of the Greek Hades, or Pluto (Rich One). Also known to the Romans as Orcus, he was believed to be the brother of Jupiter and was greatly feared. His wife, Proserpina (a Roman corruption of the Greek Persephone), was identified with vegetation, being regarded as a goddess of death during her annual sojourn in the underworld and of abundance during her term in the upper regions." Encyclopedia Britanica You sort of remind me of hitler and the way he twisted information

  • March 28, 2002, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Puds is bitter

    by NEZZER

    Hey PUD- get off of your "po back man" soapbox and cram it up your ass.Then we wont have to hear any more of your racist BS.Your the Racist you reverse Bigot! Have you ever even read the LOTR? I didnt think so.As far as LOTR being dead..last I looked it had taken in over 790millon worldwide and before its run is over it may well be 2nd on the all time box office record list.Compare that to all of Spike Lee&#39;s movies combined and now we know why you are so bitter-HA! Get a life you LOSER!

  • March 28, 2002, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Trust me - New Line will have to spend all of the profits for FO

    by Shaggins

    How do I know this? I just know. Infact I believe that only 20% of the money FOTR made actually came from people who saw the movie in theaters. How do I know this? I just know.

  • March 28, 2002, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Shaggins, m&#39;lad...

    by 2cheeky

    for an individual claiming to be a higher life form, i have absolutely no earthly fucking idea how you can possibly make the unbelieveably inane comments that you do. It is crystal clear to me and at least several hundred other people who have had the great bad luck to be inflicted with your stupidity that you patently do not know a single fucking thing beyond your ID and password. You SUCK!!!!

  • March 28, 2002, 4:57 p.m. CST

    you GO boy!

    by Bozzchops

    Wow shaggins, way to back up your statements with supporting information. "I just know" is truly impressive. It&#39;s nice to know that with people like you posting in this forum that we will all be informed of the facts. Thank you SO much.

  • March 28, 2002, 5:07 p.m. CST

    the other Star Wars losers

    by NEZZER

    Darth blumpkin,Bash lotr all you can now..You too Shaggins, cause you Losers wont have much to talk about this time next year.AOTC looks even lamer than E1 with that stupid JAR_JAR thing,well my 7 year old son liked it.Get in your minivan with the rest of the kids in the hood and the soccer moms so you all can be first in line.Are you guys gonna wear your Ewok costumes? You know,the same ones you&#39;ve been wearing for the last 20years on Oct.31st that actually look better than the carpet roll ones that Lucas came up with for talk about low budget.Hey Shaggins! dont even start with comments about about the Clone wars trailers.Weve all seen them..I saw the latest when I took my son to see "Ice Age",thats right where it belongs-with the kiddie movies.And which ever one of you clowns mentioned "old Yes albums"shove it.Any YES album is better than your Bay City Rollers greastest Hits and sound track to Saturday Night Fever Lp that you keep next to your pillow at night.When TTT out does your "has been saga" you can go hide under your cardboard replica of the milinnium falcon that you still have in your mom&#39;s backyard and cry yourself to sleep! KNOW GET A LIFE AND A JOB SO US WORKING ADULTS DONT HAVE TO READ ANYMORE OF YOUR BS(THIS GOES FOR YOU TOO PUD!) ...oH yeah-"MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!!" .....................please

  • March 28, 2002, 5:29 p.m. CST

    Thanks stub

    by wilko185

    Most of the information you provided has been pointed out to pud before, so I wouldn&#39;t hold your breath for any kind of retraction. Re Dunsany&#39;s use of the word "orc", I&#39;ve heard from a couple of people that he used it, but I&#39;m damned if I can find an example myself, so maybe it&#39;s apocyphal (a lie). Sorry. _______ KerriBerri, why do you think Tolkien favored Gaelic, particularly? I&#39;m not qualified to say if he did or not, but I&#39;ve read that he admired it but didn&#39;t embrace it as he did Welsh (the basis of Sindarin) or Finnish (which Quenya is partly based upon). Or Old Gothic, or Mercian Old English, for that matter. Where does a specifically Gaelic influence show in Tolkien&#39;s work? As far as the "mythology for England" concept, that was certainly his stated intention when he set out writing what eventually became the Silmarillion. I think his ambitions for his mythology expanded somewhat beyond that as he progressed, however. (And concomitantly, the overt references to the island of England itself were dropped from the mythos, surviving only in a very distorted echo as Tol Erresea)

  • March 28, 2002, 10:49 p.m. CST

    Here&#39;s a few ignorant, uninformed opoinions of my own

    by Buck Teeth Soh

    well, maybe 8^D. ** KerriBerri: I hereby apologise if I was condescending. That wasn&#39;t my intention at all. I&#39;m just a bit blunt sometimes. The mythology for the British Isles thing is one I&#39;ve heard before, and my issue with it is that as a statement,it&#39;s a sweeping and inaccurate generalisation which I&#39;d like to think Tolkien was smart enough to avoid, but I could be wrong. England lost a lot of mythical tradition with the Romans and Christianity, but then England is mostly composed of a mixture of European tribes, each pushing the previous wave of immigrants further out towards the celtic fringe (that&#39;s a sweeping generalisation by the way). Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Cornwall/Devon are part of the British Isles and have held on to their mythologies more sucessfully than the English, who mostly just kept their traditions. The whole Arthur thing is Welsh, for example, filtered through the romanticised idea of a chivalric period that never really existed. (And whoever suggested they were Russian, read the f***ing Mabinogion.It&#39;s a bit more authentic than Disney.). I&#39;m away for a long weekend, look forward to speaking to you folks soon.

  • March 28, 2002, 10:59 p.m. CST


    by Buck Teeth Soh

    <raises eyebrow in a Roger Moore stylee> you tell us that Lord of the Rings is homophobic, but that well-known genius and raconteur elfkiller reckons its an advert for "gay-ism" and will turn anyone who watches into a "homo". Why aren&#39;t you two mudwrestling over that one? *** Shaggins, can you pick the winner of the 3.15 at Newmarket on Saturday?

  • March 29, 2002, 12:16 a.m. CST


    by wilko185

    just to clarify, Tolkien did say at one point he was intent on creating a mythology for ENGLAND, not Britain. Precisely because the "Celts" had their much better preserved traditions (and King Arthur is indeed probably Welsh, with the stories arriving in England by way of French troubadours, I think), Tolkien felt his home country (as he saw it) was missing something, or had lost it.

  • March 29, 2002, 11:01 a.m. CST

    Elf lore

    by Bozzchops

    What is the Elven name for the Grey Havens?? I know this subject has been breeched with this crowd before, but do any of you think Jackson will make "The Hobbit"? Also , any knews about when LOTR FOTR will be out on DVD? I&#39;ve been building my home theater system up in anticipation of its release!

  • March 29, 2002, 12:22 p.m. CST

    for your info...

    by 2cheeky

    Advance buzz on FOTR release is end of July. My mom is a libraian and they get all advance news about releases first because of budgeting. Also, there, is s lot of good stuff in the video made by national geographic about the making of LOTR that does a great deal to shed light on tolkien&#39;s influences. Phillippa Boyens raises a very valid point in it- would any of us be able to knowingly destroy such a powerful thing? any takers? Shag, pud, anybody?

  • March 30, 2002, 5:07 a.m. CST

    Elanor, you did ask....

    by wilko185

    Wade was a mythical "sea-giant" with a magic boat Guingelot (Vingelot anyone?), mentioned by Chaucer and Malory. Wade&#39;s son Weland (or Wayland) was the Saxon "god" of metal-working. He is cognate with Norse Volund the smith. Ingeld was a Norse hero mentioned in Beowulf and Saxo Grammaticus. These figures survive only in scattered fragments of poems and tales (in their English incarnations at least), and in placenames eg "Wayland&#39;s Smithy", a barrow in Oxforshire, and Wade&#39;s Stone, Wade&#39;s Gap. Ingeld was once sufficiently known that Alcuin, a deacon of York in the 8th century, famously rebuked the monks at Lindisfarne for reading popular heroic tales at their meals rather than sermons by the church fathers with the rhetorical question "What has Ingeld to do with Christ?", meaning they should attend to God, not the tales of a pagan hero. Alas, those tales are lost to us now, but T.A. Shippey argues (convincingly to my mind) that Tolkien&#39;s work does in part answer the question "what has Ingeld to do with Christ", by attempting to reconcile the Ragnorak pagan spirit of Norse warriors with the Christian sensibilities of pity and mercy. _______ I don&#39;t entirely blame the Church for wiping out English myths. There&#39;s also the French to blame as well ;-). The Norman conquest did a good job of stamping out Saxon culture. _______ Re The Hobbit, I&#39;d never really noticed before that there are no female characters whatsoever. That would have to be changed, I&#39;m sure, in a film. Bard would have a love interest, Beorn a wife, Thorin an over-bearing mother..... the possible improvements are endless.

  • March 30, 2002, 5:13 a.m. CST

    >:-[ HOSED. How annoying....

    by wilko185

    I didn&#39;t notice the order was hosed. My last post was an answer to elanor&#39;s question at the bottom, didn&#39;t realise bjarki56 had already answered it. Oh well, redundancy in an AICN TB is nothing new....

  • March 30, 2002, 6:03 a.m. CST

    excuse me PUD??

    by Wit

    Hi Pud, just walked on the site, and I read your post. I just wanted to correct you on a few things. First off, Robert Redford isnt black, let alone a proud black actor. And unless you&#39;ve lost what little bit of sense you probably had, this is a FAN site. Do you know what fan means? Its someone who actually enjoyed the movie. So why are you here slamming it? I&#39;m trying to curb your freedom of speech, or anything like that. Just go somewhere else to slam, thats all. And Racist? A Beautiful Mind takes place primarily at Harvard, in the fifties. Black people there? I dont think so. And trailer trash? I go to college, to a private university, thank you very much, as do many people who like LOTR. In fact, I just saw it again tonight, with three other of my classmates (two of which are double majors, in case you were wondering). And just so you know, the majority of the original LOTR fans were beatnicks aka hippies. Oh yeah, and New Line didnt START spouting anything, people have been talking about the anti-semitism in A Beautiful Mind for months, not just recently. And another point, if Halle Berry, Denzel Washingtion, and Sideny werent even up for awards in the same catagories, why would the people at New Line start bitching? You&#39;d think they would focus on people who were actually running against them. Moulin Rouge comes to mind.

  • March 31, 2002, 8:41 a.m. CST


    by NaZGuL TX5

    Can Someone please give me any answer at all as to when its going to be on the net.

  • March 31, 2002, 3:33 p.m. CST

    Fuck Pud, Fuck HIM UP HIS STUPID ASS

    by chris111200pvi

  • April 1, 2002, 12:18 a.m. CST

    Re: Bring In The Hearse! LOTR IS DEAD

    by Gayle

    To:PUD! what would you know...perhaps you are a racist yourself. do you take in account that the book was written in the late 30&#39;s and published in the 50&#39;s. True the times are filled with issues dealing with race and even nationality. I do feel that the movie doesn&#39;t completely repersent everyone. But the book is filled with races such as elves, dwarves, men, hobbits, trolls, and more. They all have issues with one another. dwarves and elves have issues. If there is problems with LOTR then perhaps there are problems with other movies taken from novels such as wizard of Oz, and others. Take the fact that the movie was true to the ideas of the author and his work. Peter was trying to be true to the books and the atmosphere. Making it as close to the text as possible. I assure you I am no hic or trailer trash. I have all my teeth and I&#39;m very clean. I am a fan of the work written and I find pleasure in the movies. True rumors do run from studio to studio and all over the place. But don&#39;t let the rumors tell you what is truth. I believe all the winners(Denzel Washington, Halle Berry, Robert Redford and Sidney Poitier won because they are excellent actors. i have seen their films they have stared in. And loved them. And all the the actors and actresses nominated are winners in a way. The academy just choose the ones the thought were better. I agree the winners had done a wonderful job on screen. But to say that viewers of the trailer and movie it self are fanboys, toothless, flithy, trailer trash people is a racist comment all it&#39;s own. I maybe a terrible typer and live in Ga. I do not even know what a twelve sided dice is......nor will I ever. Perhaps if you noticed the amount of time and work gone in to making the film you would understand. I do. I see things on both sides but to have someone like you come and say that this film is racist is clearly your mistake. perhaps if you took the time to read the 500 paged books you would get a better picture. Perhaps in a few months you will start complaining about Spiderman, The Two Towers, Harry Potter and the Chamber of secerts, or some other film because they lack black actors. next time before shooting off your mouth take the time to research what your bitching about. Because I&#39;m one of those people that try to educate people like you before they put their foot in their mouth. I am defending a film that I believe to be one of three that will last as long as Star Wars. You may say what you want but a film like LOTR is one you will remeber unlike most osar wining fils.