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Silvain dishes on Fincher's PANIC ROOM

Hey folks, Harry here... Silvain and I had a chance to chow down upon some ol patat met a few years ago and folks, he was a real outstanding fellow. Just amazing. It was one of those nights that just everything went exactly the opposite of how you thought it would end up. As I ventured into the safety of my room that fateful night, my fingers were greasy from the fried potatoes covered in dutch Mayo (which is served warm btw) and a giant smile on my face. Sigh... wish I could say I'm in the same shape now.. snifle sniffle... and this lucky supergenius also mnaged to not be able to still get Patat met, but he saw Fincher's PANIC ROOM.... UN---- FAIR!!! Heh... of course I got to watch CLASS OF NUKE'M HIGH introduced by Lloyd Kauffman. So who's laughing now buddy boy???

Hi There Harry!

Silvain here.

We met and hung around a couple of days,... 3 years ago. At the Rotterdam Film Festival, in Holland. Anyways...

Just wanted to tell you I saw a pre-"playing in a cinema near you" edition of Panic Room. "The" Panic Room. From the man, D. Fincher. And well..., yes, he has done it again. It was a press-screening, missing the eventual highlights, shadows and final sound remixing. But what the hell!

Allthough not as mindboggling as Fight Club, surely as visually stunning as Tyler Durden's cinematic attack on corporate America.

Well...

First of all, this being a Fincher film, I was allready losing salivar once the (horribly ugly Columbia Pictures intro, pardon my french) started, knowing that we we're in for a treat with the upcoming credit sequence. It was so cool. I'm not sure if I should tell you what it was like, for in the case you haven't seen the film yourself yet... But here it goes:

Every credit (every name) was 3-dimensionally and digitally composited in real (moving) footage of New York City. As if 40 feet words were hanging in the air between buildings. Above streets, next to building facades and above Parks. All with cool wide angle (lens) tilts and pans.

Than, all over the film were cool,... very cool, photogrammetry shots. (As you can see, today's magic word is "cool") Geez, there was even one shot that timed to about, I'd say, 4 or 5 minutes. Beginning in Jodie's bedroom, going down the stairs (2 floors), moving through the kitchen, through all kinds of kitchen appliances towards a window. There we start to follow a couple of people outside. As these people go from one side of the house to the other, we keep following them in a tracking shot. Than when they start scaling the house outside, the camera moves upwords, through the floors, inside... Ans all this in an apparent one taker!!! (Of course we all know that this has been a sequence of about 100 different shots and effects, all cut together marvelously to a jawdropping climactic visual effects scene).

Phew...

What else... Well, the acting was darn good. Jodie was plain cool! Actually every actor was cool in this film. Especially Jered Leto. Fincher gave him tight dreds on his head!!! He plays such a cool character. The colorgrade was great, sort of blueish... The lighting was even cooler. Cudo's to the two DP's. (By the way..., why did they have 2 DP's?)

Anyway...

All in all, I enjoyed it a lot. Can't wait to see it again. Can't wait to have it on DVD!!! I think the special features will be ejaculatingly cool!!!

I'll be seeing ya! Bye now...

Silvain.

Readers Talkback
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  • March 12, 2002, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Fincher to do M-I3?

    by El-Topo

    Wild rumour of the day according to DH...hope it's bulls. John Woo shot himself in the foot with M-I2, Fincher is too good a director to go down that road...Panic Room sound great, by the way

  • March 12, 2002, 10:27 a.m. CST

    Finch down on this...

    by Jazzgossen

    Fincher's murky and cold and depressing. This could be fun.

  • March 12, 2002, 11:49 a.m. CST

    don't know why I like Fincher

    by Renata

    Seriously, I hated Alien 3, The Game (though it had a fantastic premise), and, most of all, Fight Club. The latter I thought was just a silly, pretentious rant against...Ikea? Also, I had never seen a movie fly off the tracks like it die in the second half. Se7en was the only Fincher movie that I thought served his talents well. I have high hopes for Panic Room. It not only looks like a good movie but looks like a good "audience" movie.

  • March 12, 2002, 11:49 a.m. CST

    The trailer

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    ...for this looks really cool. And Jodie Foster is cool, it's true. And I like Fincher. So it's all good.

  • March 12, 2002, 11:51 a.m. CST

    Fincher's Fight Club ending much cooler than 9/11

    by HeeHeeHee

    I was very disappointed in some of the visuals of 9/11. Compare Fight Club's ending to 9/11. (POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT!). In 9/11, the planes hit the building and just sit there for a while. Then, after a while, the building topples over. In FIGHT CLUB, however, the explosions go off and BAM: huge, flaring, lights-on explosion. I think the FIGHT CLUB shot was very well done: the two central characters holding each other, watching as the buildings explode, holding each other and not caring (thus supporting the central message of the film). Most of the 9/11 footage, though, was very erratic and, I must admit, rather sloppy. FIGHT CLUB had, "Where is my Mind?" by the Pixies. A great song, a great way to end the movie, and a great song to explode things by. 9/11 lacked music entirely which might have worked if they had gone for a classic silent approach, where everyone goes into slow-motion and everything is either muffled or muted. I suppose they were trying to create a sense of realism, but I didn't feel that at all. I found suspension of disbelief difficult. Over all, I think the FIGHT CLUB ending had a better sense of humor (check that subliminal penis!) a simpler, more elegant composition, better music, and better effects. Much cooler. Whereas Fight Club kicks ass, 9/11 is merely "ok."

  • March 12, 2002, 12:24 p.m. CST

    tasteless

    by durhay

  • March 12, 2002, 12:26 p.m. CST

    EIGHTH!!!

    by rogerconnery

    The closest i've ever been to the top.

  • March 12, 2002, 12:47 p.m. CST

    Now the question becomes,

    by WizardX

    Is HeeHeeHee A)simply a tasteless twit, or B)making an extremely sharp satirical swipe at how violence in movies desensitizes us to real-life violence? I still go for A.

  • March 12, 2002, 12:48 p.m. CST

    THEY FIRED KHONDJI BECAUSE HE WAS TOO SLOW

    by joshua

    that's the 2 DPO story, it's not that he isn't great, but was slowing down the whole production

  • March 12, 2002, 12:50 p.m. CST

    Renata...

    by ARZAK

    I'll tell you why you like Fincher... cause he's one of the only of the new breed of slick studio "genre" directors with a consistent (and tight) vision, and an acerbic one at that. Most of his films have an elegance completely absent from the works of shooters like Dominic Sena, Simon West and Michael Bay who seemingly lack a world view beyond Cocaine and g-strings, not that there's too much wrong with that. Those guys are taking steps backward and degrading the glorious b-picture while Fincher forges new ground and shows obvious knowledge of films past... He's like Otto Preminger or Howard Hawks... a guy working deep within the studio system creating films that ALL have his indelible stamp and world view firmly implanted in them no matter what the subject matter is. He is classic. Yes the second half of Fight Club was flawed. His career is young yet. See The Game again, I was let down the first time too, but it grows on you, trust me. Once you become familiar with the tone and rhythms of the film you realise it's pretty unique and funny too. Now it's the one by him I watch most often. Fincher has yet to make his masterpiece (RAMA?). But within the course of one film (Seven) he became one of those directors firmly on the shortlist of must see no matter what it is filmmakers. Cheers.

  • March 12, 2002, 1 p.m. CST

    The more I hear about Panic Room...

    by Mr Neth

    ...the more the pee fills my pants with excitement. I really should see a doctor about that.

  • March 12, 2002, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Wow, cool "review"...

    by Fatal Discharge

    ....not. Fincher is a good director despite the terrible Alien 3 and the last half of Fight Club. Instead of continuing the satire of the first half, he started believing his own bullshit about revolution against corporations through fascist terrorists who blew up buildings leaving no innocent people dead (guffaw). It pissed me off then and after 9/11 it's even more laughable now. That's the problem with black comedy, if you don't get the tone right it leaves the audience despising the picture. Anyway, Panic Room looks like a straightforward solid thriller which is a good step for Fincher, he needs a hit badly.

  • March 12, 2002, 1:06 p.m. CST

    I don't seem to see any hobbits in this trailer...

    by Hobbitastic

    so I'm not going to see it. I liked Mulholland Drive, though. It had the little guy from Twin Peaks. He could play a hobbit. I wonder why they didn't cast him. It would've been awesome. They should have made his part bigger in the movie. But not him. He should stay the same size. And there's no Buffy either. Even though Jodie Foster was Buffy-like in Silence of the Lambs. Except there were no vampires.

  • March 12, 2002, 1:08 p.m. CST

    HeeHeeHee...

    by fishbait

    Hello. Although I rarely, if ever, involve myself in Aint it Cool News' Talkack forums, I happened across YOUR post in responce to the "Panic Room" review. I'm not going to drop off into a rant about how i felt reading your post, I will, however, express my dissatisfaction with your distince lack of tact, taste and respect. Now, i'll be the first to admit, that special effects of Buildings being destroyed, dramatized in films such as Deep Impact, Armageddon and ID4 have often been quite stunning and impressive to see. I quite enjoyed a good movie explosion. And It is a pity that Fight Club's messages of "A generation without a Great War" is no longer relavant. However, I can assume that you made your disturbing post comparing the events of Sept. 11th to a poorly executed effect was made purely to enflame people like me. You are, no doubt, quite excited to see negative mail for whatever reason. I won't assume to know your motivations behind this poor attempt at humor. And while I KNOW that responding to you is giving yo the attention you desire, but I honestly don't care. You have every right to say whatever you feel, but I have the right to admonish you for it. Many people in this world lost everything and more in those events. Myself, I lost nothing except buildings that meant something to me in my youth. Nevertheless, I know the terrible losses felt by countless people that day, and am disgusted that people like you take joy in shocking others with insensitivity and outright childish, hurtful "Humor". You are a sad, disturbing fool, and I pity those in your life who have to deal with you regularly. Derrick Fish

  • March 12, 2002, 1:12 p.m. CST

    the real reason they fired khondgi-

    by HeywoodFloyd

    was not because he was too slow, but because he banged jodie foster's assistant. by the way, heeheehee, i live four subway stops from ground zero and i knew people who were killed that day. get your fucking head out of your ass, you ignorant cunt.

  • March 12, 2002, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Harry...

    by Zarles

    What the hell does "ol patat met" mean? Did you meet someone named ol patat? Look at your English in the first sentence of your intro. Good god, man... Anyways, can't wait to see this movie. David Fincher, Jodie Foster, Forrest Whittaker - how can you go wrong?

  • March 12, 2002, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Two DP's ?! What kind of a movie IS this !??!

    by SilenceofFreedom

    Still, it'll be interesting to see Jared Leto and Forrest Whitaker DP'ng Jodie Foster. I can't wait for this movie !! Fincher is truly putting the "Blow" back in "Mind blowing".

  • March 12, 2002, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Regardless of our unfounded predictions on how "Panic Room" will

    by Aquatarkusman

    I think I can safely say that the item submitted by Silvain is a feces-ridden pile of elephant discharge. Peer into the vortex that is "Especially Jered Leto. Fincher gave him tight dreds on his head!!! He plays such a cool character." Stare into the abyss that is "I think the special features will be ejaculatingly cool!!!" Coming up next week... Silvain hits the five-foot bong and interjects the word "cool" 493 times into a review of the Sea World View-Master film.

  • March 12, 2002, 1:38 p.m. CST

    perhaps I should apologize

    by HeeHeeHee

    If I have caused undue distress to anyone, I apologize. However, you should know (and it was obvious) that I was being ironic & sarcastic. I had my points (desensitization, the public & the media's craving for continual gory coverage [9-11 and otherwise], our apparent acceptance of simulated terrorism & simulated violence, the unreality of the situation as conveyed through the media [e.g., tourists taking pictures of the falling towers on that Day], as well as the limitations of an AICN talkback to say anything particularly meaningful.) Perhaps it was in poor taste, but, if it was, then it was not much moreso than a joke about a cancer victim. Nonetheless, if I could, I'd delete the post.

  • March 12, 2002, 1:44 p.m. CST

    WTF?

    by ubermovieguy

    I too was more than a little pissed to read this bonehead compare/contrast "Fight Club" to 9/11/01. What's next? Yucking it up @ the Khemer Rouge Cambodian genecide or the Jewish Holocaust? I don't know how or WHY that was posted(HELLO AICN TALKBACK CEO), but it's in incredible bad taste, brainless and souless. It's a shame that morons like heeheehee clog up the boards with crap like that and that AICN doesn't execute better judgement other than allowing the posting of crap like that.

  • March 12, 2002, 1:49 p.m. CST

    Everything about it is just so...

    by kafka07

    ...COOL. Fincher is the coolest director around. Fight Club was cool. Jodie Foster..she's just so frickin cool. Cooler than the Fonz, even. Everything is so cool. Life is cool. Am I not cool?

  • March 12, 2002, 1:49 p.m. CST

    by kiki370

    HeeHeeHee...regardless of what you meant or did not mean by that post, you should have refrained. It was in extremely poor taste and you could have found another example to get your point across. That said, I'm fired up to see such a good review of Panic Room and am really looking forward to checking it out. I have been a fan of Fincher's for a while and am intrigued by the entire concept of having a panic/safe room in a house. We are definitely going to be in for a wild ride on the 29th!

  • March 12, 2002, 1:53 p.m. CST

    HeeHeeUGH!!!

    by Louis P.

    In doing a presentation on Todd Solanz films tommorrow. In it I'll ask the class, "Is there a line to be crossed when it comes to comedy?". I would have said "no" until I read that post. That made me sick to my stomach.

  • March 12, 2002, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Panic Room 2 : Home Alone on Fox Family Sat. @ 2:30pm

    by travisbickleNY

    Panic Room 2: Home Alone Dir: Simon West. Starring Jonathan Lipnicki, Jared Leto, Joe Pesci, Erik Estrada, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Tone Loc, Anson Williams Todd Bridges, Debroah Messing, Mr.T, and Adrian Zmed as Guy Donovan. After returning from summer vacation, Max Bickman (Lipnicki) gets trapped in a Chuck E Cheese while crazed Vegans hold everyone inside hostage. Their leader Pedro (Leto) wants to rob the place to fund his sex change operation in Sweden. It's up to Max and his Uncle Sandy (Mr. T) to stop them, before FBI Agent Donovan (Zmed) drops naplam on the place. A family classic. **1/2 Followed by MIGHTY MORPHIN POWER RANGERS: THE MOVIE

  • March 12, 2002, 1:55 p.m. CST

    To the dude who...

    by kafka07

    ...comared Fight Club to 9/11: man you are so UNcool!!

  • March 12, 2002, 2:06 p.m. CST

    Oh, there's nothing wrong a bit of sick humour

    by General Woundwor

    There's no such thing as a subject you can't find a joke in, and while HeeHeeHee's comments are supremely tasteless, they do startle you into taking a step back from the omnipresent media images of 11 Sep and thinking about the way we watch them. What was that Woody Allen movie where the stuck-up comedy writer says 'humour is tragedy plus time'? And Fight Club is interesting in retrospect, with its unusual pick of satirical subjects - cancer victims, mass terrorism, eco-friendly consumerism. The question is, would Fincher have the balls to make Fight Club NOW? How would it be different? And would anybody finance it (I doubt it)? Anyways, I'm definitely looking forward to Fincher's new one. I basically agree with everything ARZAK said on the matter - distinctive imprint, moving even genre pictures forward, etc. And ARZAK, I love Otto Preminger - Anatomy of a Murder especially - and it never occurred to me before to compare him to Fincher. So thanks for the insight.

  • March 12, 2002, 2:07 p.m. CST

    censorship is cool

    by 3x3Eye

    ooh a sarcasm detector, that's a real useful invention. boom.

  • March 12, 2002, 2:09 p.m. CST

    Second Half of Fight Club Flawed?

    by Merry Slander

    Ummm, I don't think so. Perhaps you should watch the movie again. Fincher doesn't "believe his own hype" - whatever that means. By the end of the film, you are supposed to realize that Tyler's whole vision is a failure. He didn't forge some new breed of man out of those milita fools. They were the same losers they ever were. The audience's reactions are supposed to parallel "Jack's" disaffection and eventual horror. The milita guys are a bunch of Nimrods. Get it? And I don't know what you're talking about innocent people being killed, as there is a whole sequence where the discuss the fact that no inocent folks are left in the building. Makes me think that you didn't pay much attention. You're of course, entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean that you're right. Sorry Chief. Now, not to hang on Fincher's nuts, but Fight Club is a right masterpiece. I like th comparison to Howard Hawks, whoever made it. He's another one of my favorites.

  • March 12, 2002, 2:10 p.m. CST

    heehee

    by mansep

    it was obvious you were being ironic, and it was obviously going to offend people. but yes it was funny. satire is at its best when it dares to take risks. sure 9/11 was horrific, but it didn't stop us watching the footage over and over. afterall, disaster movies are made to satisfy our lust for viewing destruction on a large scale. if anyone is offended by that post they should be offended at disaster movies too.

  • March 12, 2002, 2:12 p.m. CST

    And Hee Hee Hee

    by Merry Slander

    You're a moose twit. Oh, you'd take it back? How about think before you fucking speak. You're little anonymous forum here lets you get away with whatever you want, and that's cool. Free speech for all. Suffice to say that if irony or parody or satire was what you were reaching for, then you need to brush up on your creative writing skills. A jury of your talkback peers has judged you, the FUCKING asshole.

  • March 12, 2002, 2:22 p.m. CST

    Batata

    by Reverendz

    you say potato... I thought heeheehees rant was in poor taste, but so are lots of things. If poor taste was a crime, most of us would be in jail.

  • March 12, 2002, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Oh, Christ, Here We Go

    by Anton_Sirius

    HeeHeeHee- never apologize. It just shows weakness. See how the cowards came snivelling out of the woodwork after you did? You just gave them an opening. And for the record- I know somebody that worked in Tower #2, and I still laughed at the post. You know why? Because I have a brain, and I realize- some of you might want to sit down for this one, it'll be a shock- that the world DIDN'T END ON SEPT 11. Was it a horrific, senseless tragedy? Yes. Did life go on? Yes. Deal with it. The world is what it is, and you're the ones with your heads up your asses if you don't recognize that.

  • March 12, 2002, 2:34 p.m. CST

    Mr. Pickton

    by Anton_Sirius

    http://us.imdb.com/Name?Khondji,+Darius

  • March 12, 2002, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Heeheehee

    by ingram224

    Actually, I doubt he was trying to be funny. It seems more likely that he was simply trying to be ironic. Mission accomplished. I thought it was rather amusing and accurate. His point is quite valid-- see how easy it is to watch movies like Fight Club in light of 9/11.

  • March 12, 2002, 2:45 p.m. CST

    Has anyone noticed...

    by Theta

    that Fincher's "style" is pretty much ripped off wholesale from Dario Argento? I just saw "Deep Red" again and the comparisons were really striking, especially when you notice "Seven" is basically a gialli. Except, of course, Argento generally has a point when he does an extreme closeup on an inanimate object.

  • March 12, 2002, 3:07 p.m. CST

    I think it's about time we all admitted that ALIEN 3 is vast

    by Cash Bailey

    And it's not just because Fincher has blessed us with his subsequent filmography, although that has certainly offered a degree of objectivity in the years since ALIEN 3 was released. I definitely WAS one of those fans that just freaked out when this movie came out, but watching ALIEN 3 now you simply have to appreciate the sheer balls it took to make it the way they did. Say what you want about the varying quality of the sequels but Giler and Hill (among others) have to be commended for at least one thing, and that's that they always hired such unique visual stylists to direct these pictures, and let them mould the ALIEN universe to their own individual vision. Can you honestly imagine that jack-ass Michael G. Wilson doing that with the JAMES BOND series? Hell no, they hire cookie-cutter hacks to make each film the same as the last one. I'd love to see Ridley return and book-end the series (like Wes Craven did with NEW NIGHTMARE) if only to get him away from directing blatant Oscar-bait and getting pissed off when he loses.

  • March 12, 2002, 3:07 p.m. CST

    HeeHeeHee

    by DougPaging

    Yes. By all means, let's all stop with this freedom of speech shit. It's perfectly fine to say what you want until you offend someone. God fucking forbid. p.s. that's sarcasm. look it up retards. p.p.s. I want to apologize to any retards or retard sympathizers if I offended you with that last remark. p.p.p.s. Sarcasm again. fucking morons.

  • The sick thing about the post-9/11 discourse is the way politicians are manipulating the public's sense of horror and sorrow, for their own interests. For example the way members of the U.K. government have been saying to dissenters over the 'war on terror' literally: "remember the sight of the those people jumping from the burning towers, remember those ansaphone messages." HeeHeeHee's post was stuff a lot of people have been thinking since the disaster, about the hypocrisy of the media and the base inhumanity of the 'people' who run the United 51 States of America. Particularly when they talk about democracy.

  • March 12, 2002, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Fincher Will Become A Great.

    by Max Renn

    Sooner or later someone had to start from scratch making interesting filums that don't follow the standard join the dots of recent Hollywood efforts. And it's about time before the entire industry collapses under it's own bullshit. I hope he continues to make wierd out there films, I hope they continue to make money and then we may finally be able to move away from that Safe, Scooby Doo explanation every five seconds, fill in the blanks cos the audience is lazy/stupid crap that America keeps throwing at us. Collateral Damage anyone, snigger.

  • March 12, 2002, 3:33 p.m. CST

    magazines with balls

    by mansep

    don't know about the onion, but here in the uk we have a satirical magazine called private eye. in the week of 9/11 they were the only people who dared make even a small joke about the events. on the cover they had the shot of bush being told by his aide, on the day of the attacks, when he was at that school, "it's armageddon sir" with bush replying "armageddon outta here"

  • March 12, 2002, 3:38 p.m. CST

    sarcasm

    by SutureSelf

    Sarcasm is the wit of the witless.

  • March 12, 2002, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Then or Than

    by Damer1

    Then Than Then Than Then Than...Get it straight you moron... Oh, and where is the plot?

  • March 12, 2002, 5:02 p.m. CST

    Darius Khondji

    by heuresk

    According to an article in the latest issue of American Cinematographer, Fincher didn't see eye to eye with the initial DP, Darius Khondji (Seven, The Beach, Evita, etc), and had to fire him. Fincher replaced him with his long-time assistant camera man and the son of Conrad Hall (American Beauty). I guess that showed Khondji to mess with the Finchermeister.

  • March 12, 2002, 5:07 p.m. CST

    Cash Bailey and HeeHeeHee

    by twan_deeth_ree

    Cash- FUCKING THANK YOU. It's about damn time somebody spoke up for Alien 3. It's actually my favorite of the series (covers head as he waits for dropping anvil). I love the fact that it's just one alien (as opposed to the very enjoyable, but one-dimensional Aliens shoot-em-up gore-fest). I loved the tunnel chases. I loved the fact that there were no weapons. I love that the alien came from a dog. I love the shaved heads, the prison colony, all of it. Great movie.____________________________ HeeHeeHee- I thought it was very funny and relevant. The media treats 9/11 as a "big story" to get "big ratings", showing the famous footage whenever they possibly can to restir our emotions and keep us glued, in not too different a manner from trailers for a movie, I might add. Just my $.02

  • March 12, 2002, 5:21 p.m. CST

    Heeheehee

    by bltpdx

    Look man, Don't apologize. It wasn't that bad, and you had some very valid points. Despite CBS' mostly sincere handling of the documentary, I couldn't help feeling at times that the whole thing served to desensitize even further. Sure, some of the sounds and sights were pretty disturbing but not as much as the live coverage was-if anything it was sanitized, just like any good disaster movie. I think the points you made are valid: There could easily be someone to ACTUALLY mean what you said, that is ACTUALLY complaining about 9/11 for its plotting etc. I think you have good points and have every right to say what you said.

  • March 12, 2002, 6:02 p.m. CST

    heeheehee and other assorted jokes about the WTC

    by Fat Lot Of Good

    Firstly, I pissed myself over heeheehee's post. Daring and funny. Loved it. I just knew it would make all the bleeding hearts cry. To all thw whingers crying about taste, didn't you learn anything from Patch Adam's? maybe laughter is the way to get through this. On the week the towers fel last year, the Australian satirical paper The Chaser published a list of headlines they were using for the WTC, included "Sydneys Certerpoint Moves Up Two Places On The Worlds Tallest Buildings List", and "Latest Pepsi Max Commercial Goes Horribly Wrong." I thought the post was heaps funny, and maybe you 'Americans should realise the world hasn't ended and that you should actually move on and get over it. And um.... David Fincher rules!!!

  • March 12, 2002, 6:04 p.m. CST

    to Merry Slander...

    by Fatal Discharge

    HeeHeeHee's post was obvious sarcasm; people need to get a sense of humor around here. As for your response to my comments...I never said "Fincher believed his own hype", maybe YOU should pay some attention. I understood what Fincher was TRYING to do as far as Norton being trapped by doings of his own actions but it DIDN'T WORK. My major gripe with the film is the tone of the film which is all over the map....it's good as a satire in the first half, turns deadly serious (except for Norton beating himself up in the basement parking which I guess was supposed to be funny but just went on and on), and unlike the horror you claim audiences should feel when the buildings collapse, if Fincher wanted the audience to sober up to the supposedly stupid terrorists at the end he wouldn't end it with the "beautiful" shot of buildings collapsing, blaring guitars and the "f.u. world, up with revolution" image of the intercut penis. And, yes, I know they discussed that they would ensure the buildings were empty yadayadayada before blowing them up but that's strictly a fantasy as people get killed around buildings (driving by, etc.) not necessarily having to be inside them. Basically, Fincher didn't have the guts to actually show innocent people killed (which IS what terrorists do) as it would alienate the audience to the main character of the film. The anarchy and revolution is good message which runs throughout the film is what teen fans are latching onto because of the muddled and inconsistent tones of the film. I can admire the film-making but I think it has a lot of flaws. Check Ebert's review who feels the same way... http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/1999/10/101502.html

  • March 12, 2002, 6:28 p.m. CST

    HeeHeeHee

    by mascan

    Hey, dumbass, don't you think it's a little too soon to be making jokes (sarcastic or otherwise) about 9/11? Anyone (well, anyone who listens to O & A) knows that tragedy + time = funny. In other words, given enough time since the tragedy, jokes could be made about it. But this is not the time, and won't be for many years, if not decades.

  • March 12, 2002, 6:34 p.m. CST

    this sounds awesome!

    by deftone

    i'm even more excited than i was before! yay!

  • March 12, 2002, 6:47 p.m. CST

    Heeheehee

    by Corky St. Clair

    That made me laugh out loud. Keep up the good work. And for all of you who didn't like Fight Club, it is my opinion that it was the best film of the 90s, except for Goodfellas but that came out in 90, just under the wire and doesn't really deal with real issued of the 90s as a whole. And as far as the message of a generation without a great war not being relevant anymore, give me a break. The film is still relevant for when it came out and besides that, this isn't a great war, this is U.S. soldiers mowing down guys in caves and innocent civilians. Also "War does not make one great." Go Yoda. Certainly 9/11 is a huge tragedy, but also just a drop in the bucket in the global scale. RIght now another war is waging in the congo and 5000 people are dying every day. But no one talks about that. Not to mention that we've already murdered more Afghani civilians than they murdered of ours. But of course they hit first. Although the reason they attacked was not just a result of their festering hatred, but also Bush's missile defense plan that cost 400 billion dollars and doesn't even work. But I forgot, Bush is a hero and American lives are worth more than anyone else's. Pardon my ranting. Guess I went off on a tangent considering this is a Panic Room talkback. I'm extremely excited to see that by the way. Peace.

  • March 12, 2002, 7:05 p.m. CST

    I Have A Panic Room In La Casa De Maverik, But We Never Use It..

    by Buzz Maverik

    We were gonna use it last time a trio of psychos broke in here, but by the time I'd emptied a couple of magazines into 'em, there wasn't much to do except hide the bodies and pay off the cops.

  • March 12, 2002, 7:09 p.m. CST

    Dispicable comment by HeeHeeHee

    by McBane

    How could you insult the memories of the Sep 11th tragedy so soon after the event. We all know it takes exactly 22 1/2 years until an event like that is funny.

  • March 12, 2002, 7:22 p.m. CST

    Careful McBane, some other idiot might take your comment serious

    by Fatal Discharge

    LOL. Aren't you starring in a new film called "Fatal Discharge" too? :-) Great minds think alike, I guess. And to mascane, HeeHeeHee was making fun of Fight Club fans not 9/11. Sigh.

  • March 12, 2002, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Fight Club is Sooooo GAY!!!

    by travisbickleNY

    Fight club is such a Homo-erotic/ wanna be badass - Gen X - whiny ass sorry excuse for a film. The only good part was when Leto got his face bashed in. You meatheads wanna watch something with substance where guys get their asses kicked with no bogus pretentions at all see WALTER HILL'S THE WARRIORS. For all you fanboys out there comparing Fincher to Howard Hawks, Otto Preminger, etc.; Fincher's batting .500. I'll give him The Game, and Se7en. As fo Hee Hee Hee.. You're mom should've delivered you with a coat hanger.

  • March 12, 2002, 7:52 p.m. CST

    What's that Public Enemy song about Sept 11?

    by Brother Putney

    I knew someone who worked at the World Trade Center. I miss him terribly, I hate the men and the thinking that took him, and I feel sick over some of the stories I've heard about the attacks and their after-effects. I couldn't even bear to watch the program about 9/11 Sunday night, it's too soon for me to go back and look at that day. But I do know that without our sense of humor, this country will never make it through the shit. When we acknowledge how badly we got hit and treat it like some untouchable wound, it warms the hearts of everyone who supported those actions (the ones that are still alive, anyway). When someone punches you in the mouth, do you give them the satisfaction of going, "You hurt me, it's not funny" ? No, you spit blood straight in their eye, say something insulting, then you kick the holy shit out of them. And then you deal with your damage. We aren't supposed to make jokes? What's next? No shaving?

  • March 12, 2002, 8:57 p.m. CST

    wow...

    by HeeHeeHee

    The tide of public opinion seems to shift quickly around here. Maybe I *shall* stick around a bit longer. Oh yeah, and I might (just MIGHT) be able to go see _Panic Room_ for free! Either way, I'm going to go see it.

  • March 12, 2002, 9:02 p.m. CST

    9/11... oh, yeah, right

    by docemonos

    Well, let

  • March 12, 2002, 9:14 p.m. CST

    Heeheehee-revisited

    by Corky St. Clair

    Dude, why'd you apologize? Of course people are offended, you must have known that would happen while writing it, but that doesn't mean you have to back down. They can't do anything to you, half the posts aimed against you were barely literate. Stand by your humor, it was damn good. People have to start realizing the power of taboo and that avoiding so called "tasteless" comments regarding WTC will only give the event more power over us. Just like black people call eachother nigga or homosexual males call eachother fags, or how I once joked consistently on my way into life threatening surgery. it's about disempowering that which is wrong. You can't stop laughing. As corny as this sounds, the terrorists don't want you to laugh. They hope that we will discuss it minimally and never joke about it so it can fester and rot away our minds. I didn't know anyone who was injured or killed in 9/11, and if I did, I might be more sensitive to the subject, or I might not. But regardless, that's a ridiculous argument. I bet all you people who are saying we can't joke about it (and probably listen to a song called "the Day the World Stopped Turning" gag) have thought little or not at all about the pain of the other people in the world. Of course you'll be more affected by something if it happens to you or someone you know, but don't expect everyone else to feel the same way. I'm sure few of you feel bad for the dying afghani civilians or anyone else who is suffering in the world, so stop demanding that everyone else collapse and shield their eyes when they see footage of an airplane crashing into a building. Those are your feelings, and it is your right to have them. But don't push them on others, and take a moment to think about the people who commited the crime as human beings with motivation and feelings instead of as faceless demons. It'll make you a better person. I think all the death that happens around the world is horrid and reprehensible, but I also believe in our need to laugh and be open about it as a way of healing. Peace.

  • March 12, 2002, 9:49 p.m. CST

    HeeHeeHee...

    by CoolDan989

    You remind me of a little kid who's done something wrong, and says "I'm sorry", with no idea what he did or how serious it is. In your post, Hee, you were implying that the whole reason that two planes killed thousands of people and took down a national landmark was for your personal entertainment. You actually had the fucking audactity to compare it to a David Fincher movie and complain that it wasn't exciting enough for you. I guess we'll have to kill thousands more people in a gasoline explosion to make you happy, huh? You little bastard, it's fucking people like you that give America a bad name. I have never read a more offensive post in my entire life. When everyone else weeped for the national landmark and all the American citizens lost on September 11th, you probably just said "BORING!!" Thinking of you makes me sick. Once you say something like that, you can't take it back. It's like shoving a broken beer bottle into someone's face on a drunken binge and saying "Whoops, my bad." I hope you get banned pretty fucking quick, Hee, so that insolent, unbearable giggling which is your screen name will finally be silenced. Go to Hell, and tell Osama bin Laden I said hi.

  • March 12, 2002, 10 p.m. CST

    FINCHERAMA

    by TomVee

    FIGHT CLUB WAS fun but flawed, mostly in the last 10 minutes. THE GAME was excellent until the end, and then it came apart at the seams. ALIENS 3 was bad all the way through. SE7EN is a masterpiece. I'd love to see this guy tackle something like the BOND franchise. Or remake DUNE. Something...

  • March 12, 2002, 10:05 p.m. CST

    Dulcedocemanos

    by TomVee

    And oh, by the way, docemanos, I have to agree with you. Everyone in the U.S. hated Princess Di. I hated her and I didn't even know her! I have heard no jokes about her death, however. We hated her that much over here. Hated. With a passion. By comparison, when President John F. Kennedy was shot, within 10 minutes I heard the following joke: What did Jackie bring back from Dallas? Jack in the Box! We loved John Kennedy that much. Loved. With a passion. And still do.

  • March 12, 2002, 10:39 p.m. CST

    IKEA and Fincher

    by Damer1

    I have a genuine affection for both. Is this a contradiction or a paradox?

  • March 12, 2002, 11:07 p.m. CST

    Fight Club is not FINCHER'S

    by PaulKrendlerDuh

    It was a book first! Does nobody realize this? Yes, Fincher is a great director. Se7en was awesome. The Game is very well done. Even Alien 3 had entertaining parts. Fight Club is great but Fight Club was a great book first. If the movie is that good then the book is obviously awesome. Unfortunately, most of you geeks seem to have forgotten that Fincher's Fight Club was not originally his. He did a good job with it, but stop acting like he's a god because of it. Obviously he's a god because of Se7en ;-). And READ THE FRICKING BOOK! by Chuck Palahniuk who has also written three other great books and has a fourth one in the wings.

  • March 12, 2002, 11:16 p.m. CST

    "Losing Salivar"

    by BurnMother

    HeeHeeHee's line was the funniest thing I've read in a long time: "Most of the 9/11 footage, though, was very erratic and, I must admit, rather sloppy..." It's amusing that Fanboys/girls reading a Fincher review would be "offended" by some dark humor. I've read much more hurtful, stupid things on this website. HeeHeeHee was a fool to apologize.

  • March 12, 2002, 11:25 p.m. CST

    No coincidence that Panic Room is billed as the next Home Alone.

    by Crazy Fresh DJ

    You see, Fincher is planning to remake a whole line of Mackauley Culkin movies. There's going to be 'Richie Rich', where everyone's favourite poor little rich boy befriends some orphans. Only this time he offers them $1000 000 to take part in a deadly game where they must hunt down and kill each other down on his vast estate using make shift weapons. Then there's 'Uncle Buck', a close knit family are visited by a long lost uncle, presumed dead. He claims to have a split personality, on account of an alien abduction experience.Is he really who he says he is? Far down the pipeline is the remake of 'Getting Even with Dad'. This is surely to divide fans of the original classic, yet is said to be Finchers opus. Currently under the misleading title 'Rama'.

  • March 12, 2002, 11:51 p.m. CST

    What can be more tasteless than joking about how the "special ef

    by Magnolia-Fan

    I don't know, maybe having an animation with Austin, Texas resident Harry Knowles as sniper/mass murderer Charles Whitman. Good thing they've never considered doing an animation like that... oh wait, they just did!

  • March 13, 2002, 12:12 a.m. CST

    by SK909

    I didn't think what Heehee said was offensive, but a lot of people who defended him didn't get the 'joke' even moreso than the people who were offended. The point of it is is that a lot of people died. I know people die all the time, but if someone comes up to you and starts cracking jokes about that car accident your mother or whoever died in, do you laugh with them and say to yourself, 'Oh, my feelings on this don't matter if someone wants to get a little humor out the tragic loss of my family members, who am I to judge?' Just because these people died on a scale large enough for the whole world to take notice doesn't take away from the feelings of personal loss among the families of victims. It's only been six months guys. And when a family member dies of cancer or suicide, you're not reminded of it EVERY GODDAMN NIGHT ON THE NEWS, are you? That they died so horribly and senselessly makes it sting even more. Grieving occurs on a much smaller scale than the BS you're all seeing in the media. I think when you get mad at the people who are still upset or offended because they may have lost loved ones, you're aggression is misplaced and probably more likely meant for the insatiable media and the incompetence of these politicians AND religious zealots hiding in desert caves. Both sides fail to comprehend what the loss of a life means to those that loved the the poor souls who get caught in the crossfire. It should make everyone indignant and angry that our lives hang in the balance because a bunch of power hungry assholes are willing to kill the entire human race just to be 'right'. Joking about that... I've got no problem with it... the bastards deserve everything they get, even when they are doing a good job, because we handed them the power and somewhere along the line, someone majorly f--ked up. But the people, Americans, Afghanis, whatever, who die as a result of all the fighting. Sometimes, they should just be left alone. Like I said, I think everyone is just pissed off in general with the abyssmal state of media and politics, not with each other.

  • March 13, 2002, 12:17 a.m. CST

    you geeks don't get it-

    by HeywoodFloyd

    it's ironic that the people who liked hee's post claim to be defending the right to free speech, but then they go and attack everyone who didn't like it. listen up all you subrubanites, you middle americans, you foreigners, and everyone else who was lucky enough to not have experienced sept 11 first hand--i will react however the fuck i choose to react to someone poking fun at the events of that day. i'm not denying the existence of far more regular situations in other parts of the world which if thought of cumulatively throughout history are unquestionably more oppressive and more deadly, i know that people all over the world deal with serious shit everyday. however, the fact that people from spain are not offended by people making jokes about the terrorism there has fuck all to do with me and the way i chose to cope with what i saw that day, and a bunch of filmgeeks casually referencing sept 11 to discuss a movie and then uniting themselves under the banner of free speech by criticisng me for not having a sense of humor is hardly gonna change my fucking mind. oh yeah, and to corky st clair, "take a moment to think about the people who commited the crime as human beings with motivation and feelings instead of as faceless demons. It'll make you a better person." you sound like you've had a perfectly blissful and ignorant life. i hope you are enjoying that ivory tower of yours, asshole--stay there.

  • March 13, 2002, 12:30 a.m. CST

    The car bomb in Fight Club...

    by splice/here

    Interesting side note on the inevitable comparison between the last scene of Fight Club and the 9/11 tragedy. On the FC DVD commentary track, Fincher admits that the bomb in the rented van in the basement of the skyscraper, was his own homage to the first World Trade Center bombing. You know. The one where six people were killed and hundreds injured. So he's a hell of a director, and I love everyone of his movies (even Alien3) but he's not much of a humanist.

  • March 13, 2002, 12:36 a.m. CST

    Morons like you

    by agnostic

    All those that worked across the street from the Twin Towers raise there hands. Well I did I saw the first plane hit I saw the second plane hit. I ran like hell. I agree with HEEHEE the news did no justice to what the reality of being there was like. Plus them showing it over and over again when I got home was fine with me My girlfriend and I watched it mesmerized. You go boy speak your mind thats whats its all about dont let the idiots that killed several people I knew and cost me my Job bring us down funny is funny and anything that isnt controversial is boring. Any one who didnt lose someone has no right to be holier than thou. We will grief in our own way. Anyone who doesnt like it kiss my hairy still unemployed ass.

  • March 13, 2002, 1:05 a.m. CST

    I have not led a blissful and ignorant life Heywood

    by Corky St. Clair

    If you had read my last post, you would have noticed that I've had to deal with life threatening surgery recently. I grew up in New York in Soho and there was constant crime and upset. I moved to L.A. and there were many car bombs on my street and people were murdered across the street and a few doors down. And my family is terribly dysfunctional. I'm not looking for sympathy, but I'm not going to listen to you refer to my life as an ivory tower. Isn't it quaint how you have to resort to name-calling. It's always interesting to see who can communicate constructively and who can't. It would seem from your comment that you think living in an ivory tower makes you able to be compassionate and aware of the feelings of everyone, not just who lives on the same chunk of rock as you. That is incorrect. All the people in ivory towers are the ones who don't think about these things. They don't have to, they're in ivory towers, like the entire Bush family for instance. I've dealt with a lot of shit in my life, and I've done stupid things. I've done things wrong, but there was always a reason. There's a reason behind everything. But looking for a reason requires thinking and I wonder if you're willing to take the time. There are reasons why the terrorists did what they did, that doesn't make it less terrible though. But just as their suffering and anger doesn't justify murder, neither does ours. We want to kill Osama and those who work for him, great, kill 'em, they're a threat to many people's lives. But we're waging war on all of Afghanistan, all the civilians. That is wrong, and if you go by body count, it is more wrong than 9/11. It also seemed like you thought that those of us who support Heeheehee's comment want all of you to not express your opinion. I want you to express your opinion, I want everyone to, but I noticed quite a few people against Heeheehee who want him to be banned. Now who's stifling opinions. No Hee supporters said those of you who are offended should be banned, from what I've seen, we just expressed our disagreement. On that note, I will stop and wish all of you well. Keep on laughing and do your best to be happy despite everything that is going on. Peace.

  • March 13, 2002, 1:41 a.m. CST

    looks like its gonna be good

    by joeypogi

    looks like its going to be eye candy, which is the very minimal at least a david fincher movie has to be, if it has a great plot, too, that will make it a classic =) go finch!

  • March 13, 2002, 2 a.m. CST

    HeeHeeHee a Fraud!- I demand an apology!

    by PimpeeMcGee

    This is just so typical. You talkbackers seem to get your britches all in a tussle over a comment that is completely unoriginal and unoffensive! In fact, I remember making a similar comment on the message boards on the day of Sept.11. Hows that for being "daring" and "edgy" you sons of bitches! I'm such a a goddamn asshole that I had no respect for the victims while they were dying! Of course HeeHeeHee gets all the love of this talkback. All I want HeeHeeHee to do is admit that he is a fraud. Oh yeah, David Fincher is a great director.

  • March 13, 2002, 2:10 a.m. CST

    by HeeHeeHee

    On September 11th, I remember waking up, feeling rather cruddy, and finding the Towers gone. Not that they had ever been a major part in my life before, I don't live in the area, but somewhere, in the back of my mind, I'm sure they had some place. On that day, also, amidst the weeping and the morbid speculation and the cringing at every airplane above our heads, I noticed, among everyone, a hysterical giddiness accompanied by an energetic desire for more news. It had escalated, in the minds of some, if not most, into a spectacle. It became entertaining to the crowds fo the same reason we watch Hong Kong films, the same reason we read Chuck Palahniuk, the same reason we slow down to watch a car wreck. It'd fallen into the same category as zombies and gunplay and masculine nihilism. And, if you'd prodded them long enough, if you'd caught them off guard, if you'd given them enough to drink, I'm sure some of them would have called it, "cool news." Rather than an atrocity and a loss of lives, the WTC bombing has become an "Event." It has become a symbol to hang political beliefs on. It's become a ratings tool & a tear-jerker. It's catharsis in the original sense of the word: we purge ourselves by watching the mayhem over and over. It's now an excuse to get votes, to sell things, and to kill people. I apologized because it seemed pretty much nobody enjoyed the post and several people were very pissed off. I figured that, if that was so, it had completely missed the mark. It now seems, though, that the forum is a little more diverse than I'd thought. I'm surprised I got such a reaction. Strangely enough, I've gotten both death threats and "right on!"s. Wiggy.

  • March 13, 2002, 3:44 a.m. CST

    To Christopher2: Ouch, yo!

    by Cash Bailey

    But I still stand by my opinion that ALIEN 3 is far better than we all remember it to be.

  • March 13, 2002, 3:50 a.m. CST

    If there's one thing that pisses me off right now, it's

    by heywood jablomie

    I simply cannot stand sacred cows. And so I wish for more humor like HeeHeeHee's to tweak the sanctimonous pompous asses of this world who just HAD to write back, "That was in very bad taste, young man! Put away your dinner and go to your room!" 9-11 sanctimony is turning into kitsch (see the Super Bowl ad in which Budweiser Clydesdales bow and kiss the ground at Ground Zero). More irreverence and less unthinking smarm.;

  • March 13, 2002, 4:21 a.m. CST

    HeeHeeHee....

    by SilentType

    ....you are a fucking idiot. Unfunny, and a total fucking jerk.

  • March 13, 2002, 4:25 a.m. CST

    HeeHeeHee....one more thing

    by SilentType

    I am not apologising. However, ny intitial response seems uncalled for having read your explanation further down the page. Just understand that a knee jerk reaction to something like what you wrote is to immediately click 'Talk back' and get offended. I do however, now see your point. I had first thought of you a stupid dickhead, maybe your not so stupid (just fucking irreverent). Respectfully.

  • March 13, 2002, 6:06 a.m. CST

    Sarcasm People

    by Karnov

    SutureSelf, if sarcasm is the wit of the witless. Self-righteousness is the defence of the humourless. I think it's no accident that Hahaha's post arrived in a Fincher forum or that it should be staunchly defended here. People that get Fight Club tend to get satire. Satire can be an important tool for dissecting events through humour, those that had a go at Hahaha seem to me to be trying the sanctify the events of 9/11 and insert it into the mythology of the American conscience as 'our great pain' for whatever motive, politically it seems to be to justify any action that the American government takes against another country (I fully support the action in Afghanistan but Bush is reaching with Iraq.) Others motives, (and I'm betting that the most outraged here that have criticised Hahaha have no close connection to the 9/11 tragedy) seem to me, emotionally disconnected people, emotional cripples in the emotionally distant society that is modern America who feel again connected to a society through their shared grief and don't want that undermined. It is psychologically unhealthy. It is however both healthy and right to question and laugh at tragedy, it is part of moving on, you have to at some stage.

  • March 13, 2002, 9:07 a.m. CST

    hehehe, docemonos (12 Monkeys) and others

    by cifra2

    Hi again. I'm Cifra2 and maybe you remember me from Talkback Wars III, which I supposedly started with a comentary. As docemonos, I'm from Spain and having said that I will firstly say that 9/11 has marked my life as if I were a New Yorker. But let's get things clear. 9/11 happened. Deal with it. Hehehe comments stroke me at first, but when I realized it was satire (and a very good one, you must admit) made me smile quite a bit and served me to think about all the 9/11 media coverage, which has been the worst copy of a disaster movie I've ever seen (only mayhem and no real information at all about what really happened or WHY). Right now, being the son of an ETA terrorist group possible target (hundreds thousands spaniards are), and having avoided myself by pure luck being injured or something worse in ETA's worst attack which left more than 20 civilians dead in a mall in Barcelona (that means, knowing better than MOST of the Americans what is really terrorism and how it must be fought) I must say this (and you are not going to like it): the whole Al-Qaeda threat is overrated. What? would you say... the worst terrorist attacks in history and is overrated? Yes. Al-Qaeda is only part of an international movement of Islamic Integrism... and making it the ONLY target is doing a big mistake... but people always need a villain. The right way to fight Islamic Terrorism is not to bomb their countries... is to develop them. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about... it's my work (well, for what I have studied in the University - Geography and History - completing those studies as Local Develpment Agent and having experience in Technical Co-operation for Development in Africa). I support the Afganisthan invasion by the allies (althought I'm horrified of the number of civilians dead), because I consider the Thaliban regime as wrong and dangerous. But what has really happened there is that the USA has planted the seed of integrism in Pakistan, and in a few years, we'll have a much bigger problem than Al-Qaeda... maybe - I bet - a nuclear war between India and Pakistan (and remember that radioactive clouds MOVE all over the world). What is doing the USA about this? A little. I guess the Pentagon think that it is not their problem. And it is also happening the Israel-Palestinian conflict, in which after a terrorist attack, Israel bombs the Palestinian Authority (killing the police who can control the terrorist and making impossible for Arafat to control the terrorists)... is the USA doing the right thing supporting the UN against Israel? No. The muslim countries have noticed that. And the images that arrive from the refugees camps look more and more similar to the Nazi repression against jews back in the 1930's and 40's. That makes me shiver. And what is more... Mr. Bush's only attention is for "evil" countries such as Siria (that was quiet), Iran (who was making huge democratic advances), Iraq (whose dictator could have been removed a decade ago, but Bush father's refused to catch), Northern Korea (which has been making also advances in its integration with Southern Korea), Somalia (one of the poorest countries in the world, and what a surprise, the last american defeat, now in a theater near you as "Black Hawk Down"!), China (an emerging economy and the future biggest american military and echonomical competitor along with the European Union) and Rusia (WHAT THE FUCK???). So, now the american government is using 9/11 to relaunch its nuclear programme and in other words, bringing COLD WAR to life again. Is this the world we want to live in? A world in which there is no only truth and way than the American Way of Life? A world that doesn't admit any other point of view (just watch how are treated the antiglobalization movement)? I agree in which we have to fight terrorism, but not at ANY PRICE. Mr. Bush offers only OLD answers to NEW problems. That's what you get when you let an illiterate redneck as the President of the most powerful country in the world. Here are my two cents. I just beg you to, for a minute, forget the tragedy of 9/11 and that you're american, and see it all just like a human being, regardless of nationalities. Think about it, don't bitch about it.

  • March 13, 2002, 11:45 a.m. CST

    9/11 was a tragedy

    by TheAristos

    not so much because of the number of lives lost, but because of the reaction it caused. We have already lost to the terrorists because we reacted exactly as they wanted us to. We react with anger, they immediately get more support in their homeland, and thus more power. 9/11 has fueled racism, xenophobia, fascist militaristic politics, intolerance, unbelievable cruelty, and a complete loss of dignity on OUR part. The United States is the most powerful country on earth- economically, culturally and militarily, and we did not get to that position without causing a lot of harm to the world around us. We have played dirty with the rest of the world, and we have won our priviledge, our money, but we have made enemies who have lots of good reasons to be angry. One thing I've noticed is that terrorist groups never grow from prosperous beginnings. If the US were a little more generous there would be a lot fewer terrorist groups. What we should have done after 9/11 is shown how big a country we are. When a child scratches his father, should the father beat the child to a bloody pulp? No, he should firmly teach the child not to scratch, but more importantly, should try to find the cause of the childs anger. People don't get angry for no reason. We did not need to retaliate after 9/11. If we had not reacted in anger, we would have grown strong in the eyes of the world because we would have shown that our country is not a child, but a mature, compassionate adult. Now we are just a bully. What is worse, our reaction has set back peace in this world for decades. It will probably start another arms race, and it has given the government a rock solid excuse to pour money into the military instead of schools. Fight intolerance and anger with education, never violence. Heeheehee was right to post his satire, and it is a great shame that movies with the subject matter of Fight Club will not be made for a long time. It is these kinds of movies that we can learn from.

  • March 13, 2002, 12:14 p.m. CST

    Project that would make me soil my drawers: Fincher directingThe

    by Mind Explosion

    Who's with me here?

  • March 13, 2002, 1:11 p.m. CST

    Okay, Here's Why Hee Hee Hee Should Not Have To Apologize An

    by Buzz Maverik

    It was satire of the right target. He was not making fun of the tragedy or the victims. He was making fun of the movie obsessed, out of touch with reality movie fan. Part of the reason that we cannot fully grasp this tragedy is that we've seen too many movies and expect Bruce Willis or Ahnie to be running around in the background cracking wise. Hell, the plot was stolen from Tom Clancy. And right after the tragedy, I heard about people bitching because they pulled a fucking Spider Man trailer with the towers in it which is truly revolting (the bitching, not the trailer pulling). So, IMEO (In My Egotistical Opinion) Hee Hee Hee Hee Hee Hee Hee's piece was well written, in a voice that sounds like film journalism internet style, and wryly funny.

  • March 13, 2002, 1:21 p.m. CST

    If America is so generous

    by TheAristos

    why do we continue to hold tons of 3rd world countries to ransom with crushing debt repayments. All we need to do to help dozens of countries on the road to development is to stop demanding they pay us interest instead of supporting themselves. Look at what happened to Argentina recently- the country practically goes bankrupt, and the only way the Argentinian government can help itself is to stop paying off their foreign debt- what is only thing Bush does about it? Insists that the most important thing for Argentina should be paying back American banks. Yeah, thats generousity for you. All the aid we give is politically motivated, and there is no denying that. Yes, Osama was a billionaire- but he turned to terrorism because he felt the Arab world was being fucked over. Yes, Saudi Arabia is wealthy, but do you think the Palestinian refugee camps are wealthy, do you really think the fighters in the caves are wealthy- no. They just turned to terrorism because of a lack of education and lack of economic prosperity. Terrorism is evil, I am not arguing with that, but I believe if I was brought up in a refugee camp, taught to believe that I was a non-person, not given any kind of enlightening education, I could have easily become seduced by such terrorist activity. Think about it- if you are suffering so much, what do you really have to lose? Osama Bin Laden has been turned unnecessarily into a martyr for millions of people, simply because the US had to feed its people's bloodlust for revenge by bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.

  • March 13, 2002, 2:02 p.m. CST

    Hey, Aristos, Here's Something To Remember While You're

    by Buzz Maverik

    ...AIRPLANES WERE FLOWN INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND THE PENTAGON, YOU CASTRATED FUCK! I don't give a shit what anybody's reasons were. I don't care if they grew up in a refugee camp. I don't care if their life is hard or if they don't like our policies! They attacked or they support the attacks, they get the misery, it's that simple. People like you, who are so empathetic and enlightened, only care about people in the abstract. When it gets down to reality, when no one is giving you liberal brownie points, you don't give a shit who dies or who loses loved ones.

  • March 13, 2002, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Excuse Me While I Puke. "9/11 Was A Tragedy Not So Much Because

    by Buzz Maverik

    And as for terrorists coming from affluence, it all depends on what country they're from and what brand of terrorism they practice. European terrorists usually come from affluence. Until we got the redneck fringe like McVeigh, U.S. terrorists were usually spoiled, leftist richies. Anybody know anything about the Japanese Red Army?

  • March 13, 2002, 2:12 p.m. CST

    buzz maverick... people like you make terrorism possible

    by cifra2

    You don't care why. You only care for revenge. How sad. Then, you create more terrorists by killing anothers. You haven't a clue of how the world works.

  • March 13, 2002, 2:22 p.m. CST

    Abstract

    by TheAristos

    Maybe you are right that I think of people in the abstract. I am not for a second condoning or excusing what happened on 9/11. It was a terrible, indescribably tragic event. All I am trying to say is that the terrorists won because of our reaction of anger. The terrorists won by causing us to be paranoid about security, driving up hand-gun sales, so that we can kill each other more quickly. If everyone in New York had had hand guns on 9/11 would we have been safer? No, instead, we run scared, we feel threatened, we lash out. Do you really think Osama Bin Laden could topple the US? Of course not. How many kids are going to die because of the increased number of guns around directly as a result of our irrational anger? Are those kids abstract to you? Their deaths probably won't be on the news because it would shame us. Yes, I am a liberal- I believe in tolerance, understanding, communication, even when I am faced with intolerance and anger. I feel ashamed to be an American when we are acting like barbarian thugs. Get civilised people! Civilised human beings don't act with anger, they act with deliberation. Think with your heads, not your dicks.

  • March 13, 2002, 2:54 p.m. CST

    In order to defeat your enemy, you must know him.

    by Fatal Discharge

    Yes, Bin Laden should be killed for what he did but don't dismiss his reasons as purely crazy. The U.S. is NOT generous with aid to poor countries. As a percentage of its wealth, the aid is much lower than other countries. The majority of Americans have no idea where other countries even are or care what's happening in them. Yet, the American Government has a military presence in over a 100 countries (including Bin Laden's former home Saudi Arabia) and has funded many barbaric political groups (Osama's, Iraq, Iran to name a few) just because it was in their best interest at the time but disregarding the consequences or innocent lives lost. So when their own handywork bites them in the ass don't just ask "why do they hate us?" but realise that after killing Bin Laden the same mistakes shouldn't be made in the future.

  • March 13, 2002, 3:01 p.m. CST

    I Create Terrorists? That's Sorta Cool, I Guess, But Really

    by Buzz Maverik

    I create the terrorists by wanting revenge FOR THEM FLYING AIRPLANES INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND THE PENTAGON? Who created that desire for revenge in me? Are you saying that Arabs are inferior children, in whom we can create feelings, but that they in turn would not be capable of creating similar feelings? I mean, Aristos, dude, you use the analogy of a child scratching his father. Are these ancient, intelligent sophisticated people, who kept civilization and knowledge alive when Europe was in the Dark Ages, little children in your eyes that we need to teach lessons? That's blatant liberal paternalism. You are thinking of these human beings as inferior, whereas I know them to be every bit as adult, intelligent and ruthless as ourselves. We are doing the right thing by striking back, but at least I have respect for our enemies. You say you don't support terrorism? I'd have more respect for you in you did. At least the terrorists stand for something. At least they believe in something. At least they have the moral fibre to be on their own side. What do you stand for? What do you care about? When someone crashes airplanes into skyscrapers, do you hug them and tell them that you feel their pain? Our enemies deserve what's coming to them, and you two and others like you have the right to voice your opinions, but frankly, our enemies are morally head and shoulders above people like you.

  • March 13, 2002, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Inferior

    by TheAristos

    Damn right, I consider them inferior. I don't respect anyone who acts with blind rage, them or us. The Arab world has had a long rich history. Unfortuneately, they have fallen behind, and I don't hesitate to call a great part of the Arab world deficient- the treatment of women in many (not all) arab countries is despicable, among other things, and any one who chooses to mix church and state should have their head checked. So yeah, I stand by that image of a child. I don't respect them for what they stand for. However, I can understand it, theres a difference. What dignity is there in fighting a lightly armed, disorganized bunch of no-hopers with the most sophisticated military machine in the world? I know this discussion is going no where, but I hope your kids don't mind going to a 4th rate school because Bush decided to pour trillions into defence. America needs to grow up, open its eyes. Once again, let me say that I am not treating 9/11 lightly. I just wish we had the real courage, the difficult courage, to act like the great nation we could be.

  • March 13, 2002, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Well said

    by TheAristos

    Great post pitchshifter. I think that should shut us all up. Anyway, really looking forward to Panic room. The first Alien I saw was Alien 3, and I still think its the best- the claustrophobia, the weird bald sexiness, the addict-as-lover. Above all, I can remember the coldness parts of that movie. You could actually feel that movie. I don't really know why it is so slated, except for the fact the it is not what people were expecting.

  • March 13, 2002, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Jesus, give it a rest

    by TheAristos

    Do I know exactly what we should have done after 9/11? No. I do suspect several things, however- bombing the fuck out of Afghanistan, pretty much indescriminately, does not defeat terrorism, in fact I am pretty sure that it breeds more hatred. The increased numbers of Americans who now own guns as a result of 9/11 only increases the danger of killing more Americans. Increase security all you want on airline flights- I am pretty sure that a determined terrorist will find a way, they always do... I think we should have waited longer and investigated longer before trying to get a few individual terrorists and bringing them to justice, not declaring war on an entire country. I think that would have been just as effective at sending a message to terrorists, and it would not have played into the terrorists' hands in terms of PR. But hey, it wouldn't have looked as good on TV now, would it? The American people wouldn't have that sense of satisfaction if they didn't get to see their revenge live on television. I don't have any answers about how to deal with global terrorism, but I am pretty sure that escalating violence is not the answer. Try a little education. Like Pitchshifter said, most of these young terrorists just want to follow some kind of authority. Try being hard on the ringleaders, but gentle on the people they have ensnared. Does that answer your question, Gurn? By the way, you sound like a real 21st century John Wayne there- "Personally, I'd rather the dead ones be them instead of us." Grow up, don't stoop to their level of barbarism.

  • March 13, 2002, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Jock

    by TheAristos

    So you're proud of hitting people on the football field Gurn? Nice one. By the way, do value an American life more than some wretched Afghan kid?

  • March 13, 2002, 5:09 p.m. CST

    Fair enough

    by TheAristos

    Working to achieve goals as part of a team is great, just make sure your goal is something worthwhile. Revenge is never a worthwhile goal. Fight for something higher.

  • March 13, 2002, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Soooooooooooooooooooooooooo......

    by jimdin2001

    Whats everyones views on the film? What does everyone think of Jodie Foster meeting with Fincher. Im sorry if this is ignoring the last half of the posts but i read the top half of the page and read maybe 2 or 3 comments about the film for a reason i wont mention in a hope it will be moved on from and i got bored and figured if i type this and come back tomorrow then i may see some reaction to the film. Not saying people cant express themselves, just demanding that as a consumer of this movie based web sight i that i get the product i was expecting. Peace y'all

  • March 13, 2002, 5:54 p.m. CST

    Oh, Good God! Aristos, Not Only Are You Naive But You Don't

    by Buzz Maverik

    Gun ownership went up after 9/11? That's the first I've heard of that. And even if it did, that's really an argument out of left field. I don't think you really give a shit about kids getting killed with all these guns. That's just some desperate reaching. And as for the terrorists being inferior, or people reacting with violence being inferior, it would be great if there were no violence, but welcome to reality. The reality is that terrorists flew airplanes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and people died. We're supposed to respond with education? Whom are we supposed to educate and what are we supposed to teach them? And why is it our responsibility? The reality is that we were attacked and that we had to strike back at our attackers to prevent future attacks as well as avenge ourselves. Revenge is real. Sometimes it is unjust and sometimes it is just. It is part of the human condition and living in reality means accepting it. More importantly, you're a fool if you think that there wouldn't have been more attacks -- as there still may be-- if we hadn't reacted with force. Statements that we are creating terror are foolish, because again, that assumes responsibility for the actions of others. If we make the price of terror too high to pay, a percentage of terror may be prevented. Finally, I'll say it: I value the life of an American more than that of an Afghan child. And deep down, if the American we're talking about is you, you do too and you're a liar if you say otherwise. I also don't think you give two shits about my kids education or know anything about the state of education in America. Fourth rate school? I don't know where you live, and I don't care, but in California anyway, the best schools, the schools that receive the most funding and most equipment and new teachers are in low income, low performing areas. And if Cifra2 is still reading, I've decided that your opinions about 9/11 aren't even worth considering because YOU DON'T LIVE HERE!

  • March 13, 2002, 6:09 p.m. CST

    how the world works?

    by cifra2

    well it's easy. Our first world prosperity is based upon third world misery. Misery breeds violence. Violence feeds terrorism. Finally, those terrorists stand against the first world. You just have to walk through a refugee camp (I've done it) to see who the real enemy is. And if some of you believes that the Western World is aiding the third world, let me laugh in your face. I've worked in international co-operation with the third world, and know it is all fake. A drop of water in the desert, what it has been always intended to be. Why, for example, bring peace and prosperity to the third world when is more profitable to exploit it? Oh, I forgot... we're all democracies... we have conscience and morality. And of course America is the mirror in which the world SHOULD look, America is so "good" and "generous" freeing nations like Irak from the bloody dictators (Saddam Hussein anyone?), America is so "good" that they are in the need to support the poor people of Israel in the palestinian genocide (and those bloody palestinian doesn't want to die in silence, how disgusting!)... and then, of course, are those left-minded who - for God sake! - CARE about the reasons of WHY the mayhem has finally come to America (it was SO appropiate when this kind of terrorist attacks only happened in Old Europe!)... Of course you think that the good move is to exterminate every possible terrorist... well... HOW MANY MILLIONS??? Why don't you try to fight MISERY in the third world? Maybe you'll get surprised of the results. Why turn into a terrorist when you are free and can earn a living? Well I guess there would be still little terrorism (nationalists and some fanatics) but a fewer amount than now.

  • March 13, 2002, 6:12 p.m. CST

    I used to live in the States

    by TheAristos

    but I left because of people like you Buzz. I don't want to be associated with many aspects of America. America is an amazing country, but man, has it been derailed. It has turned from the land of oppurtunity to the land of fuck-your-brother to get ahead. It is the most disgustingly nationalistic country on earth. So an American life is worth more than some foreigner? It doesn't surprise me that you say that, in fact its refreshingly honest. I am sick and tired of apoligising for America because of people like you. I wish I could be proud to be an American but I'm not proud. Not in times like these, I am ashamed.

  • March 13, 2002, 6:15 p.m. CST

    and buzz...

    by cifra2

    9/11 wasn't an attack against America. It was an attack against Western Civilization. It's my culture, and so I felt attacked. As attacked as you. But I have enough brain to control my anger.

  • March 13, 2002, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Great post Cifra

    by TheAristos

    You are expressing much more elegantly what I want to say.

  • March 13, 2002, 6:57 p.m. CST

    Cifra, While I Appreciate Your Statement About 9/11 Being An Att

    by Buzz Maverik

    ...I'm starting to see you as the real deal, i.e. a person of principle which I can get behind whether I agree with you or not, it's not blind, out of control anger. It's something that has to be done. Some things must be stopped. Hitler. An attack like this and the future attacks it would lead to. I don't care about the terrorists' reasons, other than they might point away to getting to them. Now, Aristos (short for Aristocrat? prob'ly) on the other hand is just spouting a straight, party line position, completely uninformed and ready to make up his own pointless facts. You left the country because of people like me? Thanks, Aristos, that's the best compliment I've had all week. Too bad it had to come from someone as naive, callous and offensive as yourself. To you this is cocktail party banter or classroom discussion, no doubt, a position to reinforce your pseudo-intellectual self image. Arguing with you is the equivalent of arguing with a page from PRAVDA, all dogma and rhetoric. The only people you care about is yourself and any abstract enemy of the U.S. because it makes you feel smart. Sorry you missed out on the hippie days, but maybe you can get a DVD of WOODSTOCK.

  • March 13, 2002, 7:27 p.m. CST

    Buzz...

    by TheAristos

    Hey, I don't mean to sound like I'm spouting dogma. Glad you have a sense of humour. I'll cool down now. I really admire America in so many ways, and thats why I get angry when I think the country acts stupidly. I don't have any kind of agenda to push. All I am hoping for is that America starts to see the problem of terrorism as more than a black and white, clean cut issue. Terrorism is despicable, but what causes human beings to do such insane things- do you really think that all terrorists are simply insane forces of evil? Look at the wider picture- they are the product of a much broader, infinitely more complicated problem. That's no excuse for it whatsoever, but bombing Afghanistan is like treating the symptoms of a disease without even trying for a real cure. A cure is much harder to come by, but it does a lot more good. Lets be smarter than they are, lets not act as they do, with blind fury. Lets be better than they are, and not resort to callous violence. I've never seen the movie of Woodstock, is it any good?

  • March 13, 2002, 7:39 p.m. CST

    Re: TheAristos

    by Brother Putney

    In your previous post, you wrote, "America is an amazing country, but man, has it been derailed. It has turned from the land of oppurtunity to the land of fuck-your-brother to get ahead." When, exactly, did this moral shift take place? Before or after the white guys showed up and violently booted the Native Americans off their own property? For better or worse, I'm afraid this country was founded on fuck-your-brother to get ahead. I know I sound cynical but facts are facts. NOW, if anybody would like a big, black, Tuttle/Buttle laugh, may I direct your attention to this tasty morsel? http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/12/inv.flight.school.visas/

  • March 13, 2002, 7:58 p.m. CST

    Hooray!

    by TheAristos

    Don't know if I agree with you on every point, but almost all. We needed a third party to step in and stop this stupid argument. Now about Panic Room. I am really worried about David Fincher's career. I have loved every one of his movies, but I can't help noticing that his box office track record is terrible. Alien 3 I thought was great but it almost killed off the franchise box-office-wise, Seven was his only hit (7-8 years ago) and then The Game and Fight Club, which weren't exactly bombs, but considering their star power, didn't set the box office on fire. Now I couldn't care less about how much money a movie makes, but I kind of suspect that directors who don't make their studios any money eventually, no matter how obviously talented they are, find themselves with very little work. I really hope Panic Room is a hit, because it will give Fincher more power, and thus more freedom to make his great movies.

  • March 13, 2002, 9:19 p.m. CST

    by saged

    This is my first post even though I am a long time reader. I am writing in regards to the tastless post left by hee hee. This is for him and all of you other lemmings who agree with him. You FUCKING INSENSITIVE MORONS. I cant believe that people would actually find something like that to be funny. I cant believe that people are actually stupid enough to compar REAL LIFE TRAGIC EVENTS with FICTIONAL EVENTS that are potrayed on TV or in movies. See, that is the difference. I can watch the empire state building blow up in ID4 or see cities tumble under huge tidal waves in Deep Impact because I realize that those are FICTIONAL, NOT REAL. Now of course everyone is agreeing with hee hee because it is the hip thing to do, God forbid someone should think on their own. You are all a bunch of lemmings. Why don't you try and laugh in the face of the people who actually lived through it or the ones who lost both loved ones and friends on that tragic day. You idiots can laugh because you weren't there. You people obviously have no soul. If you did know someone who perished in those towers and still think that it is okay to laugh at that post, then there is something deeply disturbing about you. You are dishonoring the memory of the dead and all who died on that day. You MOTHER FUCKING MORONS!!!

  • March 13, 2002, 10:26 p.m. CST

    pitchshifter

    by CoolDan989

    If you want me to "grow up and calm down", the least you can do is pretend like you have some respect for the chunk of America that was lost on September 11th. HeeHeeHee not only doesn't give a shit, but he made September 11th a big joke. As an American icon collapsed before our eyes and took thousands of human lives with it, HeeHeeHee was busy writing down punch lines. And that is why I hate him with every fiber of my being.

  • March 13, 2002, 10:38 p.m. CST

    Oh well, 9/11 was a set up by the Bush administration anyway

    by SilenceofFreedom

    Think about it, now Bush is seen as a "smart" guy, when really he's just a fucking idiot with his finger on the button at all times. He's using Osama Bin Laden as a scapegoat to further himself. Has anyone ever seen "Arlington Road" ? Think about it. We've been given "One man and one man alone" to blame for this entire thing, and now we feel better, knowing that only Osama Bin Laden was behind the whole thing. We can sleep at night again. Look at all the patriotic and propaganda filled war movies that have come out or are coming out very swiftly after the attacks. You think that's a coincidence ? I don't envy you people, you're whole society is built on conspiracy

  • March 13, 2002, 11:07 p.m. CST

    well, actually...

    by HeeHeeHee

    9-11 was a morose, solemn day for me. I spent the evening sitting at a table full of grief pamphlets, the news repeating itself in the background, and watching someone I barely knew cry. I didn't sit around writing punchlines. Typically, I don't write satire or humor or whatever you want to call it, anyway. Besides, that was an extemporaneous piece. I'm not terribly concerned about your hatred. I don't think you genuinely hate me, at all. Anywho...

  • March 14, 2002, 2:49 a.m. CST

    Fincher and America

    by Lonestarr2

    Thank God Fincher is making movies in the good 'ol USofA! He's a damn good filmmaker in a damn great country - America has EVERYTHING. It's as beautiful as New Zealand, Canada, wherever. No more 9/11 jokes or negative comments or I'll be forced to hunt ya down myself - just like the red-blooded American that I am...

  • March 14, 2002, 4:03 a.m. CST

    Retaliation

    by TheAristos

    Ok, to dive back in to this endless debate. ORSON, I know that it would not have been possible for the US NOT to retaliate. I just wish it had done so less indiscriminately. I think if you had to retaliate, how about some specific assasinations in Al-Queda? Wouldn't that have sent just an effective a message to the terrorists? The desire for revenge is totally understandable. But bombing Afghanistan to pieces won't bring back the thousands of people murdered. It will only alienate more of the world around us. It opens us up to more hatred and more attacks. No one will ever erradicate terroism, because we don't live in a perfect world, but we can do certain things to calm the fires. Bush's rhetoric about an "axis of evil" is blatant scaremongering to push through inflated defence spending and his ridiculous "son of star wars" plan (which wasn't all that popular before 9/11, was it?) After six months, what has bombing Afghanistan really achieved? It has killed thousands of people- whether they are "innocent" or "guilty" of something is irrelevant- we never had the chance to ask questions before the shooting, so can't claim they were guilty after they are dead. Have we caught the bogeyman, Osama Bin Laden? No. Will we ever? Probably not. In fact it serves Bush's interests to keep him at large, because he is very effective as a singular enemy people can unite against. The same thing happened in Iraq- we achieved a partial victory (Iraq was driven from Kuwait) but we left the evil figurehead alone. Why? Well one good reason is that he serves our purposes really well- he gives us an excuse to keep thousands and thousands of American soldiers in the middle east, safeguarding our precious oil. Do you think Saudi Arabia would let us basically occupy their country if we didn't convince them that Saddam Hussein was still a threat. No. We need to protect our oil supply, thus we need troops in the area, and the only way to justify that is to keep in place a threat like Saddam Hussein. Osama Bin Laden is serving the same purpose. Will Afghanistan be any better off with a new government? Who knows, perhaps. A better government for Afghanistan is not why we bombed it, however. What else has changed? Well, for a start, there are thousands of more guns in the hands of ordinary Americans directly as a result of 9/11. People have accused me of making this up- check it out. I doubt it would have made the news in the US, but handgun sales went through the roof after 9/11. Not a very patriotic news story, so probably not newsworthy. Great post pitchshifter. Oh, one last thought- lets just say that we had found out that the terrorists on those planes were from Northern Ireland. We would have retaliated in some way, of course, but would we have bombed Northern Ireland off the map, in the name of getting all the IRA supporters? I don't think so. I think we felt more free to do more harm because who the fuck are Afghans anyway? just a bunch of ragheads killing each other already right? They, as an entire people must be morally bankrupt, right? By the way, is America proud to be the only Western civilised country to legally endorse revenge killing by calling it capital punishment? That must tell you something about American morality.

  • March 14, 2002, 4:20 a.m. CST

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1580000/1

    by TheAristos

    Check this out if you don't believe me about the rise in gun sales.

  • March 14, 2002, 4:49 a.m. CST

    Mind Explosion: Word, bitch. THE LONG WALK like a motherfucker!

    by Cash Bailey

    But how they'd do that ending, I've got no idea.

  • Alrighty Aristos, let's try to bring the debate to the centre here. At the moment it seems polarised between humourless rednecks, that means you Buzz, and people whose hearts bled so profusely that they probably need a transfusion to vote, yep Aristo (BTW Suicide is a cowardly selfish act not a selfless one, the most effected are those left behind by a tragedy and how much thought is given to them, it is much harder to get out of bed each day and face down issues that you may not want to, keep the faith for every dark day there is a sunny one). PS. Buzz, if you want to get angry about something how about that Bud Superbowl commercial I read about earlier, Clydesdales kissing the ground at ground zero? What was the message, Have a bud and remember your buddies, Fuck off, how crass is that to manipulate such an event for the purposes of advertising, if the Budweiser corporation wanted to do something positive why not pay for a Red Cross ad to air? Reality check No.1 : Pitchshifter, just because I support the American action in Afghanistan you assume that I am American, well I'm not, I happen to be Irish. I can form an opinion based on well informed facts rather than a gut reaction which is also the reason, even though I am not American, I am still entitled to comment on the events of 9/11. The act of terrorism and it's repercussions in the global arena have consequences for us all. Personally I believe everyone in the western world felt closely connected to the events by virtue of having the shocking events unfold live before their eyes in such an immediate way thanks to the speed at which the modern media can relay a breaking story. As for my support for Bush's actions in Afghanistan, here is why I think they are legitimate. The Taliban government was not recognised as a legitimate state by any government, bar Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. It was a brutal corrupt inhumane regime. It also made the mistake of harbouring a violent terrorist group and permitting it to train and conduct it's war on the west from within it's borders. The Taliban and Al Queda were indistinguishable, Al Queda acted as an unofficial police force in remote areas on behalf of the Taliban and Bin Laden held an official post in the Taliban government. These close ties are unsurprising given the level of funding and infrastructure Bin Laden gave to Afghanistan. I personally was surprised in the wake of Sept. 11th at the slow pace and deliberation that Bush applied to establishing the facts and giving the Taliban government who were complicit in the act by virtue of their sheltering a known terrorist the chance to save their own worthless hides. When they refused to hand over Bin Laden America has no choice but to act, Bin Laden had to be dealt with as did the Taliban. War is never pretty but it is occasionally necessary. As to the innocent casualties, how many women and children were going to starve to death over the next decade as a result of Taliban policy? I heard demands for a halt to the bombing to allow for humanitarian aid to get through, then calls for more rapid military action when bleeding hearts realised that the Taliban had stolen all the food to fead it's army and the only assurance that food would get to civilians was if it was distributed in allied held areas. I think the war has ironically a positive effect on Afghanistan Aristo, you indicated that Britain was so much more compassionate than America because it did not bomb N. Ireland when the IRA blew up Canary Warf. You know both scenario's were different. One, Ireland was not a hostile state to Britain. Two, it did not fund, support, arm, harbour or supply the IRA nor was it politically affiliated with them. Three, it did make the consistent effort however to address a pragmatic political solution to Northern Ireland and stamp out terrorism, not recognising it as a means to their end. In other words the Irish took a pragmatic approach that promised a solution. This is not to say I support the current trend in American foreign policy, currently is seems to me that Bush is cynically manipulating the events of 9/11 to meddle in world affairs to manipulate them in favour of American interests. This has been tried before with disastrous consequences. Let us not forget who put a puppet dictator called Sadam Hussein in power because America felt it's oil interests were threatened by Iran, nor should we forget that Bush Snr funded Bin Ladin and the TAliban in Afghanistan to protect it's oil interests from the Russians. I am not convinced that the current push on Iraq after a decade is not an attempt to walk in his father's shoes by Bush Jnr. at the behest of his friends in the oil lobby that are whispering that Iraq's pumping equipment is 10yrs out of date and their production will fall and supply (which the US still buys from Iraq BTW) will become erratic if something isn't done. K.

  • March 14, 2002, 2:24 p.m. CST

    Switchitter, I Happen To Be...

    by Buzz Maverik

    ...a humorous redneck.

  • March 14, 2002, 3:55 p.m. CST

    You guys are acting as if HeeheeHee is freaking Kurt Vonnegut

    by Merry Slander

    Seriously, please stop the delusions of grandure over his post. It ain't particularly insightful. And I DO so HOPE that Panic Room is quality. I need some quality Finch action - and SOON. MS out.

  • March 15, 2002, 1:23 a.m. CST

    pitshifter

    by Crazy Fresh DJ

    where's '...and the woman he loves'? and 'the one thing...was a boy who believed in him'?

  • April 12, 2002, 5:21 p.m. CST

    Fincher DP's

    by AndZiggy

    I had a bit part (cut from final) and was E. Norton's photo-double on Fight Club and spent lotsa' time w/ Fincher and DP's Jeff Cronenweth and 2nd unit DP Connie Hall Jr. I heard through friends on set that they canned the French guy over creative differences (truly)...and that's a big deal to Finch, considering if he had his camera opearting license, he'd also be shooting it himself. (Heaven bless him, he can do his job and everyone else's better than they can). The reason for Conrad Hall as his replacement is less clear. I know that he would have used Jeff C., but he has been making commercials and keepin' it domestic, as they say. Sons of pioneers...make angry men, they say. JC is not such one, but Connie may be...Nevertheless, the shots on PR were amazing, his best so far... More on new stuff on Finch when I hear it or grab a role on the next pix. Stephen Wozniak