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STAR WARS EPISODE 2: ATTACK OF THE CLONES Trailer Here!!! OHMYGOD!
Sweet Mary with her lost sheep, this trailer is enough to make you weep! Harry here, breathless at having just seen this damn fine trailer. I wasn't at home today to watch this air live on TV, as I was at the Paramount Theatre watching the debut of two rather wonderful independent films, "ZigZag" the debut film by David Goyer as director and a movie shot on High Def and projected digitally called "Master of the Game," which was an intimate tightly written marvel. I come home and I get to see this, about 20 times, and folks... This just looks fantastic. This could be it. Maybe Lucas has done it. Maybe he did listen to the criticisms while maintaining his vision for the story as he has wanted to tell it. Or maybe he's decided to just dazzle us with wonderment. At this point I don't care. I just, desperately want to see this movie immediately. Sooner would be nicer, like tonight, but as I think it is highly unlikely that I could see this movie before tomorrow, I would like to. If you can set up a screening for me either before my panels at SXSW tomorrow or after the Book Signing... That'd be sooper. Hhehehehe.... However, I'm afraid I'm going to just have to stand in line like everyone else... :( Oh well. hhehehe, That's part of the fun of it all, eh? Here's the mind boggling new trailer...
Click Now and Shut the Hell Up and Drool!
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Good job, Lucas, you got me interested again.
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i will see this movie 100 times... well maybe not that man.. but you know. and i was never a basher of TPM, i didn't lOVE it but it IS starwars, and when you look at them as a whole i can see it is a slow start to a kick ass oddessy... and did it NOT look like the Jedi had Green, Blue and Purple sabers?? must be these damn eyes!! DAMN YOUR EYES BOY!!
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That's what it reminds me of and in a good way. I almost crapped myself watching it on TV earlier. I just hope Kit Fisto gets some screen time.
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Anyone got the link for the large file??
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Mar 11, 2002 2:00:43 AM CST
Man...the financial prospects for this movie are unbelievable!
by alex mccallister
Lucas must be drooling! Did you see all those different Jedi??? All those characters, all those spaceships, all those toys! Wow...Lucas is a freakin' financial genius!
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Ewan MacGregor always sucks when he has long hair. Emma, etc = shitty Ewan. Short hair (Trainspotting, etc) = good Ewan.
I really hope I'm wrong, but the dialogue looks as bad as Episode I. The effects can't save it. -
Still looks like a soap opera cartoon. Jar Jar fans must be drooling though
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Referral Denied, can you post a new link this one is dead.
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This trailer was awsome. This looks like the action packed adventure TPM should have been. And for all you dolts who are saying it looks too CGI, what exactly is a shot of...oh, lets say...four star destroyers lifting off into the sunset above a vast army of a few hundred thousand clone troopers on a strange and distant planet suposed to look like? Do you have another basis for comparison? I thought not. Take a big fucking swig out of the shut the fuck up mug.
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I kind of was. I was more entertained by the first three trailers. Even "Forbidden Love" had me cringing in a sort of amused way.
I mean, I liked it, but it didn't live up to anything. It doesn't instill some kind of assurance that the movie will be the one we've been waiting for.
Hopefully Lucas surprises me(that's a laugh). -
Lorrimer did Ewan have short hair in TPM... your theory is shot to hell... please try again.
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Took long enough to ge this up, well where can we all get the larger file!!!! I need to see this thing a little bigger. Good stuff by the way. Lot more purple sabers then I thought there would be. Love the old school walkers.
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Guy: I didn't mean to suggest that Ewan was bad in Ep I. He was great, and had short hair, yes. But TPM's dialogue still sucked the big donkey. Two separate issues.
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Christopher Lee has the best voice since James Earl.
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That was the best line from the preview delivered by master yoda himself. How can this not pump one up for this film. But I will try to keep my expectations at a resonable level. May 16th can't come soon enough!!!! -
go to starwars.com, ok george you got my 9 bucks.
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Wow yeah! Holy shit mother of God yeeeehaaa!
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i dunno, what is all this eye candy supposed to look like? not-so CGI i'd hope. i'm not saying they are bad special effects - i'm sayin there was a time (like the original trilogy) where we could be far more amazed by small models and shit like that. sure that's almost ancient history now but when you're filling up the whole frame w/ complete CGI it's a tad bit too overwelming. i'm not even saying georgie boy should get tips from peter jackson or anything - i'd just like to see some magic in the movie where i actually have to wonder how they pulled these magnificient action sequences off instead of just realizing they were are done on a computer. that's all i'm asking for. not like i'm saying this is one horrible ass trailer and i'm not gonna see the movie. i will for sure. but i still find some of the shit i saw in this trailer a lil too much, that's all.
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ok...Just gone done watching it for the 15th time (thank god for quick time pro) and all that I have to say it things are looking up! much darker and better battles...i think we are going to be in a nice treat!
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Is it just me, or my monitor? Actually, I had the same issue with EP1, so I'm almost sure it's not my monitor. Don't the colors all seem a shade too bright and/or too unnatural? It really makes the CGI stand out. I don't know if it was intenional to give the worlds a more alien look, but it really takes me out of the effects and makes me almost wish they used more minatures. I miss the grittier look of the older films. I didn't like Moulan Rougue, but I have to give it credit. I think it used CGI more effectively than EP1 and now maybe EP2 in that it didn't take you out of the movie. Hell, this is almost to the point of looking like the end of Roger Rabbit in its cartooniness.
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This is the best version I could find so far. It's an AVI in DIVX format. This site also has mirrors and a link to a DIVX download page..enjoy. http://node2.callihq.net/
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Why are you so determined to see this movie fail? What difference could it possibly make to you?
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Let's keep our knickers on for now folks. Like the other trailers, Hayden's dialogue came off flat and forced - not inspired and believable. There will undoubtedbly some cool moments, but cool moments does not equate with an exceptional, mind blowing film. Remember how much we all LOVED the first trailer for TPM, lest we forget? Yeah, I thought so. AND REMEMBER MOST IMPORTANTLY - These films are will never reach their true potential if Gary Kurtz is not involved.
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As a fan since '77 (I was 7), let me say this.
Ep. 4 - the best!
Ep. 5 - darn good
Ep. 6 - pretty sweet (except ewoks)
Ep. 1 - lol, what a joke!
Ep. 2 - (based on all trailers)...LOOKS SWEEEET!!! -
Mar 11, 2002 2:38:18 AM CST
Can "Two Towers" top these visuals? I say no way, no how, no ti
by notchjohnson
I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say that no visuals in "Two Towers" will come close to outdoing 'AOTC.' Looking back at LOTR, I'm realizing that some people don't love LOTR as much as they simply needed a new 'favorite son' to bash SW with. Some of the praise being lavished on LOTR is done so in a way....how can I say this....it's clear some people are trying wayyyyy too hard to praise it 300,000 different ways, always with a knock at SW. It's like the girlfriend who, just to spite an ex-beau, will find every single minute quality in her new boyfriend and amplify it a million times. "Look, even in the way Frodo walks when he's calm, you won't see THAT in AOTC." Some people are just too obvious, it's too transparent. Most of us see through it. If you don't like Star Wars, just say so. Don't hide it behind tons of exasperated praise for a movie based on an already-established book. Notch out.
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Just beautiful imagery. And it still doesn't give away the whole flick.
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Mar 11, 2002 2:39:44 AM CST
My preference is Star Wars video games over the last two Star Wa
by electrodyne
It's more like a "choose your own adventure" story, in a universe you know and love. This way, one can suspend the belief that ROTJ, the $pecial Editions, or TPM were EVER RELEASED. Then you can enjoy the ORIGINAL 1977 and 1980 versions of ANH and ESB for the masterpiece fairy tales they are, and pretend that this RUBBISH of midichlorians, Luke And Leia being related, Jar Jar Binks, bad acting, half assed CGI and awful cinematography, and lame editing/pacing ever occurred. Call it denial by choice.
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Mar 11, 2002 2:39:50 AM CST
Amazing visuals, great action, and the story has promise. Isn&#
by epitone
Just a thought.
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Action, fun, treachery, designs that hark to the other movies. With Ep I, you were waiting for the cool fun to begin. This movie looks like its going to get the action going from the start.
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you rock
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I mean, it looks like a kickass computer game, and I'm sure it'll be fun to watch under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs, but it's gonna be a shitty movie. Deep down we all know it. Part of what I love about the original trilogy is how worn-out and dirty everything looks. It's a fantasy world, but one that looks like people actually live in it. When the Falcon stutters and Han bangs on dashboard to get it going-- it's shit like that that made Star Wars great. I know this is a different era and Lucas wants a different aesthetic and all, but it just looks plastic and lifeless and dull. If you're the type who gets instantly erect at the sight of Boba Fett, this'll probably be great, but my interest has plummeted.
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Mar 11, 2002 2:43:25 AM CST
i've said it before (on the Hulk/off-topic talkback): this t
by a goonie
cuz oh shit, it sure does! i just love the bloody look of the movie. the melding of the photography and the CGI is wonderful! and oh man, the lightsaber duel between Ani and Dooku! and Amidala's Leia-like costume!!!
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It was a bit underwhelming. The dialogue scenes seem incredibly wooden, althought Ewan McGregor and especially Christopher Lee put some emotion to their lines.
SFX was technically great as you might expect, but... It just seemed a bit unspirited to me. There was no "wow" factor to anything. There were probably more small details than we have seen before, but otherwise it didn't really seem to show us anything we haven't already seen countless of times before. Once again the production design is WAY TOO CLEAN. Everything looks like plastic, and therefore the whole thing looks like a huge set instead of a REAL enviroment. Structurally it wasn't a very well made trailer. And the music wasn't well chosen. Didn't get my blood pumping. * * * I don't know, I believe it's going to be a good film with some cool action and eye-candy, but I just can't get really excited about this. Too cheesy and generic, too lacking in emotion and original vision. As a trailer this gets a solid 7/10. I guess the film will get the same grade.
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Quit with your whining and complaining.
Did your parents beat you or something?
Why can't you just enjoy the damn trailer for what it is. Star Wars was never meant to be intellectual cinema, it was just supposed to be a fun pulp thriller. I bet you people critisized Mr. Toad's Wild Ride when you were kids for not having a coherent storyline. YES, the colors are bright. For heaven's sake, Star Wars has always relied on bright color. Bold black, white, and red for evil and organic colors for good. Stop complaining about unrealistic CGI. LOTR had some pretty cartoony CGI as well. That big cloud of birds that flapped a million times a second but moved ten miles an hour didn't fool me at all. Nevertheless, I enjoyed the film. Lighthen up. -
Mar 11, 2002 2:48:01 AM CST
I love to smoke a bowl with Gary Kurtz and hear what he REALLY t
by electrodyne
You have admit, he was the undercredited worker bee with a vision that really pushed Lucas. TAKE THE TEST--->Rent "Two Lane Blacktop", "American Graffitti" and "The Dark Crystal". THEN rent "Howard The Duck" and "The Phantom Menace". If you can find them (and stomach them), watch the Ewok TV special and 1978 SW Holiday Special. Then compare them to "The Dark Crystal" (yes it's Henson/Oz, but Kurtz played a huge role in it). Then watch "Two Lane Blacktop" again. THEN watch the original 1977 ANH. Now you tell me, these new films don't suck without Gary Kurtz and ex-wife Marcia Lucas.
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This looks like a FUN movie to watch. And thats all you could want aint it?!
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To quote Ike And Tina Turner, " 'Nuff Said".
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How can anyone say that? This is the most mind boggling imagery I've ever seen in any movie. I suppose those who think this looks bad think the cave troll looked real. ILM has officially schooled WETA or any of the other effects houses out there.
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I don't know how to spell the sound of myself drooling, so I won't even try.This thing looks fucking awesome, and all you naysayers can come shine my shoes for me when I see you waiting in line for the 5th time. Like Kelso would say, BURN!!!
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They give us just about everything we always wanted this time around and you little pricks still cry about it. We got Boba, walkers, jedi everywhere. What gives? It's Star Wars. Have fun with it.
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Notice that I stated in my previous post that I'm aware of Lucas's intentions, but that it still looks like shit. You can make things look pretty without making them look sterile.
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What's with all the reports calling this the best trailer so far? I've watched Mystery over and over again and it gives me the chills..."It was just before dawn...they came out of nowhere", the probe outside Amidala's apartment...and yeah, Forbidden Love was a little cheesy, but some of those visuals were breathtaking. I think this trailer lacked the rhythm of the others--like they tried to jam everything in. And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it sound like Ewan McGregor has lost his pitch-perfect Alec Guinness impression? It sounds like he's almost speaking naturally (of course, if it helps his performance, screw the impression). It wasn't a bad trailer by any means, but there wasn't ONE shot or line that really stood out like in the other ones. And the ending...nothing can top Obi-Wan at the end of Mystery: "Good job!" Whatever, the thing's still going to rock. It just sucks that the playa hatas have something to complain about again.
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That isn't Slave One in the Tatooine hanger.
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I think everyone is aware of the idea that the prequel trilogy is showing everything brand shiny and new because these SW movies are having a sort of reneissance period going on. * * * The problem is, it doesn't work. Dirt exists no matter how rich a society is. Spaceships get dirty when they travel in space no matter how rich a society is. More than that, even when PM was showing poor people who recycle the same materials (like in Tatooine), everything still looked like plastic. The idea that nothing gets dirty and worn out because a society is having a rich period is brainless. It's illogical and unconvincing. That's the problem with the SFX in PM and AOTC. It's looks fake plastic, despite the technical skill. The problem is not in the SFX itself, but in the artistical vision of Lucas.
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is just determined to hate "Star Wars" no matter what. Probably the same people pitting against "Lord of the Rings" for no readily apparent reason. This looks incredibly exciting to me; we're watching the Star Wars universe take shape, and it looks very dark.
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Was it just me or did the CGI look really unpolished? I freeze-framed several key scenes from the trailer, and I must say the quality looked nowhere near as good as I was expecting. Frankly, what I saw in this trailer reminded me of some lesser movies (wing commander comes to mind).________________I'm willing to give lucas the benefit of the doubt and assume they will be cleaned up before launch, because frankly the CGI looks wayyyyy too cartoony to be convincing.________________Hell, some of the scale models and claymation they used in the original series looked better than alot of the cgi in this trailer.
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I think that the production design is otherwise good, but damn Lucas for hell for trying to make everything look like plastic toys.
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Here are the musical cues used in the trailer (from Theforce.net):
"The Pit of Carkoon/Sail Barge Assault" (Episode VI); "The Clash of Lightsabers" (Episode V); "The Forest Battle" (Episode VI)
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Bad acting.
All CGI, all the time. Looks fake.
Balance is the key.
Augmentation is the word.
This looks like a cut-scene from Command and Conquer.
God save us all - Episode 3 better be good. -
Reminded me of TPM. A lot of cool effects with a blah script (at least based on the soundbytes we got). We'll find out soon enough.
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I think one of the reasons why the CGI make look "too fake" for some is that they are viewing the trailer on their high-res computer screens. When I watched the trailer after Malcolm in the Middle, I found that it looked a lot more realistic because of the lower frame rate and resolution.
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http://starwars.apple.com/ep2/clone_war/media/gate/ep2_clone_war_p640.mov Hurry up!! And by the way, Jar Jar appears two times in the trailer. He's behind amidala when Palpatine is saying: "my negotiations will not fail"; and he is also in the hall when Obi Wan is reporting: "they are using a bounty hunter...."
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EVERYTHING looks fake if you KNOW it's fake. Even real things can look fake if you believe that they are. A lot of the dead bodies made for films look nothing like real dead bodies because real dead bodies don't look like how most people would imagine they should.
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I dont think its just that people think the CGI is bad but rather that it lacks substance. Nobody doubts ILM's technical abilities, but rather Luca$film's direction with the overuse of CGI in general.____________IMO, LOTR utilized CGI more effectively than what I have seen in this trailer.. mainly because it was not so overwhelming._____________Someone here hit the nail on the head with the vidoe game comparison... almost makes you wonder if they did it this way so they could more easily whip out more sheit titles like Pod Racer.
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To the cinematography. Phantom Menace looked incredibly dull, but AOTC has way more atmosphere and style to it. Nice to see some improvement there. And Christopher Lee and Ian McDirmid are giving good impression with their acting. Shame that the good guys are so wooden. Well, at least Ewan McGregor is trying a bit.
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Guess what folks, machinery IS made of plastic and metal!
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you are all just setting yourselves up to be suckered again into giving Lucas your $9. I saw the trailer and it looks NO BETTER than the phantom menace. The acting was all wooden, the directing was generic aside from the tons of cgi which didnt even look very good. What the hell was that blue guy with the spikes? he looked cheesy. The humor seemed to lack just as much as the last movie. "I hate when he does that"; i dont think mccgreggor could have delivered that line any worse. No comic timing. Lucas was a hack when he made TPM and its now obvious that hes still a hack. A great marketer? yes! a good writer? no! a good director? FUCK NO!! But of coarse all of you are gonna go donate your money to the guy and then be extremely dissapointed with the film. But lucas need not worry, you'll ignore how bad AOTC is once they air the trailer for episode three and you'll just be georgies bitch once again. Take my advice, boycott the fuckin movie and maybe Lucas will hand off writting/directing duties to someone who has imagination and talent in filmaking instead of just being good at workin with effects and selling dolls and filming n'sync cameos.
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*****SPOILER - Darth Vader is Lukes Dad !?!?! - *****END SPOILER
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Mar 11, 2002 3:10:05 AM CST
But plastic and meta get dirty when they are used. Do the stormt
by virkku
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I don't fucking know why I can't fucking open the link! shit shit shit! There's something soooo fucking wrong with my fucking internet fucking connection. And I can't fucking find the link in apple.com
Please send another link here:
preporter_port2@yahoo.com
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AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! !@#$$^$#^
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HOWEVER, consider that the army of clone troopers we see in the trailer is a brand spanking new force. Meanwhile, the trade federation's (or confederacy or whatever) forces DO look weathered. Take a look at that spidery thing.
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In order for a film of this nature to be completed in under 13 years it is required that the use CGI. The CGI that I have seen looks better than any other film. It is nearly refined. If models were used the film would cost $500 million to make. If you ever liked the original three films in this movie then you must understand that this appears to deliver on most everything that a fan could ask for. I think that the bar has been raised here substantially. The biggest mistake made with TPM is that it targeted an audience much younger than it's actual core fanbase. This one seems to have found it's apropriate crowd.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:16:06 AM CST
Fantastic..now all we need is the trailer to Willow:The Two Towe
by mrlimey
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sorry for my previous posts. THIS IS GONNA BE AWESOME!!!!!!! I will probably watch this a zillion times.
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the movies are released what - six months from each other?!?!? give it a fucking rest - there is no rivalry there whatsoever. my god, even after christopher lee and peter jackson have pointed out all the differences there are still people bitchin about what's going to better and what not. how about we wait and fucking see!?!? one huge difference between LOTR and SW is LOTR book-readers know what to expect in the next two with some surprises here and there from mr. jackson. SW fans only know how these things are gonna have to end up with anakin becoming vadar - but i'm sure there's still a shitload you also don't know of what's to come. i mean hell - if you didn't read LOTR you'd guess that eventually they might just destory the ring but you wouldn't know all the shit that is going to happen up into that point. so what rivalry are you creating here? you haven't even seen footage of T2T yet and even when you do you still have until christmas to wait for it. so who gives the slightest bit of care what's better? is it gonna make you sleep better at night because AOTC is better than T2T or vice versa? would it be so horrible that BOTH FILMS ARE AMAZING? fuck at this point i really don't know - i'm already staying skeptical about AOTC and no one is gonna change that right now. the one thing that will change that however is when i see AOTC opening night and it may very well kick my ass up and down the theater. and that's what i'm HOPING FOR. just like with T2T - even if i'm not all that impressed with the trailer when i see it in a few weeks i still hope for the same, that it blows my fucking mind. now why don't all you start thinking that way? it'd be great do know that people aren't trying to take sides on this imaginable rivalry. fuckin put it to an end already.
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Look people, if you want quicktime pro you can find key generators in a number of places...it ain't hard, just search around and you can save this great trailer in the large size to your computer and watch it as many times as I have. ;)
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I don't think the events in TPM were considered to be an emergency to anyone other than Amidala. In this movie it effects the entire galaxy supposedly.
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I'm not referring to single shots in the film, but to the overall look of especially PM. It's still too early to say how gritty AOTC will look, but in my opinion it looks more convincing than PM. One of the smartest things Lucas created with his team in the original SW was the dirty universe. It was born out of real life, for example they watched real footage of shuttles returning to earth and realized that those brand new spaceships were DAMN DIRTY after being in space just for a while.
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From Movie-List.com:
http://node2.callihq.net/media/ep2_clone_war_p640.mpg
http://suso.suso.org/mediafiles/ep2_clone_war_p640.mpg
http://planetmirror.com/pub/movie_trailers/ep2_clone_war_p640.mpg -
At least it's a better story.
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You can just download the large version here:
http://starwars.apple.com/ep2/clone_war/media/gate/ep2_clone_war_p640.mov -
Mar 11, 2002 3:23:51 AM CST
Golly, wasn't there a chasm scene in another Star Wars film,
by electrodyne
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Mar 11, 2002 3:26:02 AM CST
wick-ed!! too bad alot of you dorks have to continue your grumpy
by quamb
Hopefully this movie will kick ass! I loved LOTR too. Oh, and other movies. Am I wierd?
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Any notice the final screen of the trailer has this URL: holonetnews.com.
The site says it is the "The Information Source For The Republic." Check it out. -
Mar 11, 2002 3:26:46 AM CST
Betting pool - SOMEONE in this film will use the line "I've
by electrodyne
My unusually high midichlorian count tells me it will be Mace Windu or Anakin.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:27:43 AM CST
referel denied fuck fuck fuck fuckfuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
by the baumer
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This is not a great trailer and AOTC most likely will not be a great film. But it looks like good popcorn fun. It has more epic action and better SFX than PM. It has a more atmospheric and appealing look. Christopher Lee and Ian McDirmid seem like cool villains. Ewan McGregor is having more fun with his role. Yes, it's a shame than Natalie and Hayden seem so damn boring and their love story very likely going to be cheesy and boring. But according to this trailer the flick is going to have LOT'S of fun action in it so it's likely to be an entertaining ride and worthy of 7$. It doesn't look great, but it doesn't look bad either. Seems like a solid, epic adventure film.
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Watching this trailer over and over again has convinced me that Clone Troopers are much cooler than Storm Troopers. Apparently, Clone Troopers can actually kick ass!!! I thought it was cool how there were Clone Troopers sitting in the doorways of those gunship things just like Marines in helicopters. I would like to think that out forces in Afghanistan are kicking as much ass as the Clone Troopers. p.s. If you look closely in the first shot of the Republic Gunship zooming by the camera you can see Ki Adi Mundi and Mace standing in the doorway (taken from a post at theforce.net)!
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im sorry. this movie is just gonna suck. yeah, the special effects are gonna be good. and yeah, the acting is gonna suck. but this is star wars, and those are givens; people bitching about those two things are wasting their time. this movie is gonna suck because george lucas is an old man with no skills. all he's good for is promoting merchendise. the original star wars was great becasue it was a classic tale. the movie didnt need to be a science fiction movie--it could have just as easily taken place anywhere, at any time. it was a stock story of a country boy learning about the world and about his roots. the characters were basically cookie cutter: country boy, noble mentor, sassy chick, arrogant jock, you get the picture. it didnt try to be anything more than a fun movie (it couldnt, they didnt have enough money) and it succeeded because everyone could relate to the characters and emotions. now, what are we dealing with? trade federations? clones? emergency legislative powers? mitochlorians? come on. the new movies just suck. i love star wars, but this i cannot take. go back and watch anh, then watch tpm. youll see what im talking about. george just isnt the same person anymore. sorry.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:37:16 AM CST
In the bar scene where Obi-Wan suddenly wields his lightsaber, d
by electrodyne
in the background you can see a digitally-altered Billy Dee Williams looking young, lean and suave, pimping out those Twi'lek Twin sista bitches to a mid-twenties Rodian. Could this be another one of those foreshadowing Greedo cameos?
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...because there will be suckers buying up every last toy after the film's release.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:43:44 AM CST
"all that matters", assorted dickheads, take a deep breath
by johnnyblue
save the fucking plot nitpicks until the movie's had its two hours to tell its tale. christ, MAYBE it makes sense when the credits roll, MAYBE they don't, but until then, don't tear it to shreds. ugh. and this is a preview, i think its a good preview, does that mean its a good movie? fuck no. does it mean i'll give it a chance? yes, actually. others see it, aren't impressed, maybe they won't see it, maybe they will out of curiousity but they're not going to like it (if i were to see time machine for instance), whatever. relax.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:44:07 AM CST
Looed good, but still had too much of that PHANTOM MENACE plasti
by cash bailey
I'll see this flick for the mighty Christopher Lee and just hope the rest of it lives up to the man's greatness.
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Vidocq was horrible but AOTC looks much better.
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It's what Lucas fuckin' pays me to do!
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Mar 11, 2002 3:45:22 AM CST
George is a CGI braggart (oooh, look what I have!) who likely n
by electrodyne
His control freak tunnel vision reinforces this theory.
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I thought the mystery trailer was way better. The pacing was well thought out instead of trying to fit as much shit as possible. There was a palpable sense of dread in that trailer that the new one doesn't have. And the "mystery" ending with the music and the beats of images was just great. gave me chills, it did.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:49:44 AM CST
Somewhere, Steve Sansweet must be getting all moist knowing he&#
by electrodyne
That guy is worst than Rick McCallum.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:49:56 AM CST
elecctrodyne are you really as retarded as your posts suggest?
by snuffape
I mean, how the fuck do you dress yourself in the morning let alone figure out how to get a password for talkback?
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I firmly stand by my posts 110% - and of course I'll be seeing this film opening week, despite the jabs - but I do apologize if the posts are annoying you. I just moved 3000 miles from home, have a low fever and the Nyquil is kicking in. I'm obviously bored to tears and taking the piss out out of something that used to mean alot to me. No harm intended.
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It looks like a PS2 game, did no one at ILM watch LOTR? Weta pushed the boat out and now ILM have dragged it back in.
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LOTRs effects weren't as good as these. I hated Jackson's swoopy camera moves.
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can someone please tell me how Rick McCallum got involved with Lucas and Star Wars? Every time i see this guy interviewed i can't help but think what an arrogant prick he seems like. Someone divulge.
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Will you bashers ever be satasfied by anything anybody does. I challenge ever little bitch who rips on Lucas to get off you fucking lazy asses and go out and write your own scifi trilogy and get it made and have it make a shitload of money. This trailer looks damn cool,and everybody who says its too cgi can lick my balls. Its a science fiction movie which deals with alien worlds and fantasy, if you want something to be more realistic go stare at a fucking tree all day. Its looks realistic but its boring as hell.This looks to be one of the greatest triumphs of cinema but you guys try to score "cool" brownie points by ripping on it.Its easier to tear something down than it is trying to create something. Its funny how much hatred is spewed towards Lucas and the Phantom Menace. How come you talkbackers dont rip on Francis Ford Coppola for making a subpar Godfather 3 or Kubrick for his weak Eyes wide shut. Not every movie can be perfect and every moviemaker is allowed to mess something up a little now and then, even if it happened to be your beloved Star Wars. I gonna see this movie several times and all you miserable bastards who are never happy with anything can wallow in a sea of your own shit.Late
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God I have never seen such a large group of fuckin cry babies in my life. By cry babies I mean all you people that are screaming about how bad Episode 2 is going to be because you have seen 2 min of video. I dont know if the movie is going to be worth a shit either but JESUS !!shut up and lets see. I read some of the posts and alot of them are people running their fuckin mouth and have no clue whats in store for them. I saw someone say that episode 2's story conflicts with TPM. You get this from a fuckin trailer??? Its funny how many people have wrote this movie off because the TPM didnt live up to your hype. But guess what you are the same fuckin nerds that will be inline with me come May 16th to see if this movie is going to suck or be great. And dont come at me with this "You guys are falling for it again, Lucas has already got your 9 bucks" Hey fuck you !!! I will pay 18.00 opening night if I have to and wear a smile from ear to ear. And even if it sux I wont regret it. I just dont understand why everyone is so down on this movie already. All you who bitch about EP2 and say they wont pay to see it are full of shit. I am sure you have paid to see much worse....Like Godzilla, Pearl Harbor, The Time Machine, ID4, Armegeddon the list goes on and on and you line up just like everone else. All of those are by far worse than TPM due to the simple ass rha rha Hollywood bullshit. Think of all the lame ass one liners in those movies. I find them unbearable to watch just because of that alone. OHH and yes I liked LOTR also it was great but why must everyone compair it to Star Wars. "Apples are better!" " No oranges are!" its all a matter of taste !!!!! Like I said I liked LOTR but it could have stood having about 30 min in time shaved off it. Peter Jackson and George Lucas are fuckin people who make movies not gods so dont make them into it. What will everyone do if the next LOTR's turns out like shit come December. Or lemme guess Jackson gave you one good movie so its impossable to fuck up the next. But then again didnt Lucas give you 3 good out of 4? 1 movie out of 4 that didnt make you piss your pants and anything else he makes doesnt have a chance?
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Mar 11, 2002 4:23:34 AM CST
I think McCallum started with Lucas after producing YOUNG INDIAN
by cash bailey
In McCallum Lucas found a new yes-man after ditching Kurtz for probably telling George that the Ewoks were a really bad idea or something like that. And LOTR's effects weren't always perfect, but they are still the best special effects ever seen.
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This is the first AOTC trailer that I've watched, and I watched it with the giddy feeling that I was "giving in" and spoiling something massive, even though The Phantom Menace, at least in hindsight, doesn't strike me as being all that great. But Hell, it's Star Wars. After I watched it once, I was a little disappointed, but then I watched it again because everyone said you have to watch it a few times to really take it all in. After watching it a second time, I can say that I'm actually pretty disappointed. I'm a casual Star Wars fan, to the point where I understand the whole "This is the Renaissance, Episodes IV-VI are the dirty aftermath" and all of that stuff. But the trailer just really wasn't that impressive. The CGI, for the most part, looks pretty lame. It amazes me that Farscape, a cable TV show on the Sci-Fi Channel, looks a Hell of a lot more impressive on a weekly basis than this multi-million dollar orgy of financial spending can produce over a period of years devoted to just two to three hours of film. Rygel, Farscape's little alien creature that resembles Yoda in size and form and floats around in a hover chair, looks a Hell of a lot more realistic than the CGI Yoda does. When are people going to learn that any sort of animation, whether it's CGI or cel animation, just isn't going to fool anyone into looking real when it is put up alongside real people? On Farscape, the actors are actually interacting with a real puppet that is physically being hit by the same atmospheric lighting that they are, and looks very real. In AOTC, Yoda looks like exactly what he is: animation. ---- As for the rest of it, well... it just wasn't very impressive. The war scenes were so hyperactive that they showed a blurry little slice of everything, but never actually highlighted anything specific and cool during the battle. Hopefully the movie, obviously being much longer than a trailer, will take the time to show the battle in more detail instead of devoting a half hour or so to the same blurry incoherence that's featured in the trailers. The fight between Obi-Wan and Jango Fett, however, kicked all sorts of ass. It had ATMOSPHERE, dammit, and that's what I wish they had had more of in this trailer. Crashing waves and moist, rainy air... it looked awesome. ---- All in all, a somewhat disappointing trailer with a few bright spots.
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a pity that it didn't look real. For a time I was considering seeing this at some point, perhaps not in the theater, but eventually. After seeing that though, I think I'll definitely give it a pass.
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Hello everyone, the true bleiever is here. I say true believer because I'm apparently the only soul who submits to this site that loved ALL the Star Wars films,and LOTR BTW. Here's my weigh in of tonights trailer, I was left speechless by the sheer kickass brillance of it. I will be there FIRST DAY, FIRST SHOWING! You RULE George!!!!!
And now a question:
Harry is your animated gif a homage to Peter Bogdonavich's Targets? I see you've placed an early review of his current film Cat's Meow and this struck me a little homage.
Also, for Virkku, I've said this before, but some people just don't get it. The lived dirty look of episodes 4-6 stemmed from the fact that we were seeing the galaxy AFTER the Clone Wars and the Empiral take over. Read the annotated screenplays some time, it says right there that the x-wings are supposed to look like they're held together by duct tape an spit because the rebel alliance didn't have money to burn!! The world of the prequels is a time where people had the ability to buy epxpensive ships and get them repaired at high end space docks. Also the people we meet in the prequels are senators, politicans, Jedis, and captians of industry. Compare their income brackets to the smugglers, bounty Hunters and Rebel Fighters of 4-6 and you get quite a difference. Also consider the comparisons with our actual history. Before the World Wars, Eurpoe was a clean pristine looking place, afterwards it looked like a burned out hulk. During WWII The french resistence, surely one of Lucas' influences for the Rebel Alliance, were fighting the Naxis with worn out equipment that was dirty and they had to repair themselves. You're right Lucas was showing a little bit of real life in 4-6. He still is here, it's just a different aspect of real life.
I'm swithcing off my targeting computer now. Nothing's wrong with this trailer, or this series, I'm allright with it. I just want it here now! -
Is the first, and only time, that I see R2D2 fly (ala Black Hole), the city looks just out of Blade Runner and everything looks fake.
For the bad acting I have to say that no actor or actress can get inspired by performing 90% of the time in a Blue screen room.
The trailer had its moments but now the real "magic" is lost, now all has to be technically explained as if it was a godamm Star Trek episode (like the mitochondrians been the source of the force, having all the political manuevers detailed) next time it will be Leonard nemoy playing Yoda...wait a minute they would CGI Nemoy since he doen't look real enough.
I can wait to watch this movie until is released in DVD, man that CGI is at the Mummy Returns level. -
by the way, there was a funny posting where it reads "Oh for you guys that think that the trailer looks fake is because you have set up your screens at Hig resolution, I viewed it in low res and looks great"...well..just wait until you see it in the big screen...is going to look even more fake...
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I am amazed by the way people have taken sides and all this trash talk is making me sick. I love Star Wars and I love the Lord of the Rings. I read the books when I was very young and I saw the orginal Star Wars trilogy when I was a child as well. I don't see the need to pick a side and do battle with the other. We are all mature adults here. Plus ask yourself one question Lucas haters: Lucas paved the way for special effect films. Could FOTR have been made without the accomplishments of Lucasfilm and ILM??? And on the flip side would we even have fantasy fiction/science fiction around without the contirbutions of JRR Tolkien, Frank Herbert and other early sci-fi writers??? All good art is influenced by other forms of art, why can't you people understand that simple concept. Yes I was also disappointed by TPM, but it did have it's moments and it is just the first of three acts. So why can't we all just focus on the good in both SW and LOTR and enjoy them both.
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In response to the guy that said Lucas could learn a lot from the "brilliant" Cave Troll in LOTR....please. That was just a watered-down version of the Rancor from ROTJ, just like the Balrog looked like an extra from the finale in "Spawn." The day Peter Jackson puts a believable CG creature on film that can rival, oh, let's say Sebulba OR Watto from Ep1 - then you can run your mouth. I enjoyed all twelve hours of FOTR, but I'll let you in on a little secret: if Gollum ISN'T a believable CG creation, then TTT will fail utterly. And, that's not even counting the talking tree stuff. All these LOTR vs. SW arguments are completely tiresome, but let's remember this: FOTR could NEVER have been made without George Lucas laying the groundwork for the CG revolution - but he sure didn't need WETA to change film-making forever all on his own. (I applaud Peter Jackson and have been a huge fan since "Bad Taste," but to call FOTR's effects the 'best ever seen on film' is ridiculous.)
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you guys can suck my dick.
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you guys can suck my dick.
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you guys are just fucking stupid.
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anonymous slandering at its best, this board is pathetic. If you dont want to suspend disbelief and see this movie.... dont. I will be there day 1 to see this, nothing multiplies the magnitude of these movies like opening day cheers, the cranked auditorium, and the pristine print (if going to be on film). I cant wait, this is going to be an awesome ride. McGregor seems to enjoy his role a whole lot more, he seems to give more life to it. And as for the effects, i have to this moment, seen a single CGI effect i thought was real. In nothing. Its still in development so i accept it, its better then fat black magic marker matte lines around a rancor any day.
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Personally I rather see flat black markers used in a creative way than a cold CGI scene in SW.
yes ILM were the first to push and create from scratch incredible SFX, and that was awsome because it was so new and USED the right way. Right now any Indie director can employ a CG artist and get some decent work. But what is sad is that the CGI is been repulsively over used in Holywood productions, and sadly, in TPM. some people are now pointing out that the AOTC trailer is not a 100% finished print so they may still working on it (I hope). So NEVER place technology over creativity... please. -
CGI is just as creative if not more than matte paintings, models, etc... they all look fake in the end, its just what part looks fake thats different
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I just read down to like maybe the 6th post or so, before I just felt too tired and alienated to go on. Looks fake? Looks friggin' FAKE?!?! HELL YEAH, IT LOOKS FAKE!!!! - It's the fucking Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers universes come to life!! It's supposed to NOT look like anything you see out of your window. --- ooooh, I can't type anymore... the anger, the wonder... the trailer? Aaah, yes! I will see it again. That'll help.
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everyones just too wrapped up to be "the" critic that they dont suspend disbelief and take the films for what they are.
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Ok, so I couldn't think of a better subject title but what it says is true. There are so many pro's and con's about this trailer though one thing that surely sticks out is that a lot of people are pissed off to no end and tired of all you people (maybe myself included) bashing the trailers and the latest Star Wars movies. Why do it? These are movies, if you don't like it fine, give your say but don't get so blatant about it and declare your hatred for the genre. Whats wrong with the world today? What made all of you have such high expectations? Is it the water? Do you "demand" a good product? If so why? Sure you pay your hard-earned money to support George Lucas but don't think you are being gipped, no one is holding a gun to your head to see these movies. All that being said, yes this trailer wasn't as good as the others but like some of you who stated, that doesn't mean the entire movie is going to be bad. How can one judge something from just little information? This holds true to real life as well about many other topics, but the point here is to not judge a book by its cover, it only gives little info, you need to read between the lines in order to know what it is truly about. All the CGI complaining about this is gone way out of hand too. Sure it doesn't look up to par but look how long till the movie comes out. Do you not think they are trying their best to fix every problem and make it as good as they can? I challenge all you who think highly of themselves to in fact go out and make a movie of the same calibre and pull it off. You'll find it not to be easy, and with little sources you have it won't even stand a chance. So just relax and wait till this movie comes out and if its not what you expected, fine so you didn't like what you saw. The times have changed and this isn't how the original Star Wars looked, ideas change, people change, live with it. Basically, just be damn happy that this movie is being made and that this and one more are the only ones left. What will happen once this saga is over? How many other movies are you guys going to whine and complain over? Is it really worth your while? I think not, so invest your time into something more productive and take up on that challenge or just do something that doesn't require high hopes and extreme anticipation.
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But Hayden Christensen seems to have "bad actor" written all over his face, and the trailer has more than its share of corny lines. I've got some more thinking to do about whether to see this movie or not before opening day, but for now, all the signs seem to be pointing to no...a terrible title, a potentially terrible actor, an 'N Sync cameo, corny lines, and the biggest reason of all..Jar Jar Binks. *shudder*
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My whole body was awash in a hormone wave when I saw that preview. I had goose bumps. It was that damn good. I makes me believe that the first one was on track, and that Mr. Lucas knew the score, long before we did. Holy Christ-hump this movie is going to be incredible. I'm very excited to see it. But where's young Han, damnit?
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With all my venting I forgot to mention what was nicely laid out in the final trailer. Does anyone notice how the Empire has basically already begun? Sure it's not formed 'yet', but look at the precursors. The Star Destroyers on the battlefield, they look so close to SD's, and how there's the Clonetroopers (thats a no brainer but thats a part of it or soon to be) and how Palpatine talks to Anakin (that was the best part) and saying how he will be the greatest of all Jedi. Not to forget how Palpatine is given immediate power over the Republic. This movie will be very interesting to see, I'd say mostly for story wise but I'm not just basing it on that, the visuals are outstanding if you don't like it in this trailer you do remember the others don't you? Episode III is the movie I am so eagerly awaiting only for finding out how Palpatine becomes the Emperor and how Anakin turns into Darth Vader. Those two alone are worth checking it out but there's all the little good stuff that goes along too.
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The link to the medium-size trailer is: http://starwars.apple.com/ep2/clone_war/media/32tee/ep2_clone_war_a320.mov...the link to the large-size trailer is: http://starwars.apple.com/ep2/clone_war/media/640/clone_war_ctp_ap640.mov (I'm assuming you DON'T want the small...lol) Enjoy!
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that's a good trailer. this is potentially the best installment since TESB. you know it too...don't be scared.
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All those that are having problems with those restricted mirrors, dont worry; The trailer is on Kazaa.com. Just put in "Clone War" trailer as the search criteria and then you can download it.
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Referral Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://applesw.download.akamai.com/ep2/clone_war/media/gate/ep2_clone_war_p640.mov" on this server. -
I won't go into detail and tell you how much I love eps 4-6, enough said.
However when I discovered Lucas was going to make eps 1-3 my heart sank. Why? well he should have made 7-9 instead (and then 10-12). Why - here goes........
Spoiler alert for the ending of eps 3.......
1. You know where the story is headed, you know basically whats going to happen, any Star Wars fan could probably give an 90% guess of where the film is headed, who lives, who dies etc etc. This spoils the somewhat......ohhhhh F!ck whats going to happen next tingle......
2. These films which ever way you look at it will decrease the greatness of the originals. When all the new films are finally released people will be in for a shock if they sit and watch all six back to back in order, you will watch the first three and then go onto to watch the next with a jolt. Effects differences etc etc etc.......
3. The casting of the first film was flawed big time. McGregor should never be in it. Talk about bringing a lack of character to his role...........
4. Making 7-9 would have been so much better, the wow factor could have been back, err what will happen next etc etc. They could have had Ford et all back in some kind of small role as parents of a Jedi etc etc. It would have complimented films 4-6, the effects would show a progression made from the earlier days in the saga and could be incorporated better...........
Don't get me wrong I will be in line to see the film, but I will go there as Mr Normal not has Mister Hyped up, sweating can't wait, heart attacked coming help!!!!!.......The plus points as I see them for the film are... Samuel L Jackson, Christopher Reeve, they have got decent actors in more a major for a change. Negative points from the trailer that I picked up upon, nnnnnnnnoooooooo McGregor - we don't care for him - what a travisty for the memory of Obi wan!. Anakin no no no no, didn't see enough to tell to be honest but it didn't look good. I didn't like the look of Yoda too mmmmmm artificial his face was yes... I can't put my finger on the problem with it but mmmmmmmm no.
Eps 7-9 where are you.!!!!!!!
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Mar 11, 2002 7:44:17 AM CST
to bring up an old arguement about midichlorians, in addition to
by johnnyblue
it seems that the upset reactions to the concept are likened to that of a romantic who has just been told that love is a chemical reaction. some never accept it, others can find beauty in the explanation and still see the magic within the origins. i think lucas's choice to take that approach with the force is a cool one. i think the way he's set up the plot is wonderful is well, with the shift in republic to empire and such (note the gaurds in the jedi council are the same as those that later gaurd the emporer). the allusions to myth and history as well as the character's transformations are fantastic, beautifully simplistic but textured storytelling. and reading some of the tidbits of trivia over at imdb shed some light on things i'd missed in episode one. such as the variations, musically, on vader's theme for young anakin and the emporer's theme for palpatine, seemingly optimistic but the looming future underlining the notes - that's really cool. and i think that, once we see the story within episodes two and three, more appreciation for the nuances of episode one could be found. reading about some of the things lucas was putting into the first installment in his paired trilogies gave me faith that his heart was in the right place, even if his presentation was often misdirected. maybe, and these previews to me show promise, he's coming together as a storyteller again, regaining his vision. he has my interest and anticipation, this is a film that isn't going to make or break my existence, but i do believe in the possibility that it will give me enjoyment, and possibly inspiration, or at least a broadening of imagination, which is a wonderful thing. why not take things for their worth? for their potential? why brace yourself against the possibility of enjoying something? and if its something that doesn't interest you or that you know you're not going to like, why take precious time to rail agianst it? i never went to an LOTR talkback to voice my casual indifference or even my annoyance with the mass exposure of it... i don't know, think about it. ask yourself these questions. its just a movie, yes, but also a gift, an attempt to do something for an audience, art, which you don't have to like, but can at least appreciate. that's all.
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well that was definitely different to what I was expecting....major gladiator overtones in the 'clone war' segment and more dynamic cinematics (which reminded mre of..yes...LOTR)but the good looks better than the bad in this..so far.The only other aggravation is a too cg-looking yoda...
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plz don
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friday.cant wait that last shot loks like custers last stand for the jedi.finally some mace windu action.and artoo flying wow.
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Don't be force fed any more crap by the studios! These movies will never be as good as we remember as kids! Let's grow up and refuse to buy Star Wars action figures, books, posters, toothbrushes-show George Lucas you care about the franchise that enchanted your youth and you will not take his million dollar - trying to please the fans - from the heart - agonizing in 100 degree - 3 years of his life crap of a movie!
Aw hell, it's easier to eat ring dings and bitch over the internet.
Grow up assholes, it's only a movie. Enjoy it and shut up. -
Most of the posts here are about whether the CGI is good enough. But the truth of the matter is, the issue with the new Star Wars movies is not whether the effects are good enough. They're fine. It doesn't matter if you can tell they're CGI or not -- they still look better than anything in the first 3 movies. Go back and take a look at the Rancor in ROTJ and check out the crappy bluescreen work. I'll take CGI over that any day. The real question about Episodes I, II, and III (and indeed, with all movies) is whether the PLOT, the DIALOGUE, and the CHARACTERS are good enough. Episode I sucked -- yes, it did suck -- not because of effects, but because of lame characters (Jar-Jar, Boss Nass, the wacky race announcer), lame plotting (Midi-chlorians? Virgin birth? Blowing up yet ANOTHER space station?), and lame dialogue ("Everything depends on the Viceroy"? Fart jokes? "Yippee!" "Now this is pod racing!"). It looks like Episode II has a great plot, great sense of action, little to no Jar-Jar, and better dialogue (although Anakin's line about being in charge of security may be the worst-read line since the invention of talking pictures). I am a die-hard Episode I hater, and I think Lucas ruined his legacy with it, but I will be in theaters to check out Episode II. It looks like the Jowled One may be back on track. Qualopec has Spoken the Truth.
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I was really looking forward to this trailer, but the FX are very flat and cartoony, and the dialog is awful -- the "funny" lines are too obvious and the plot looks much like TPM, with Obi Wan taking Qui Gonn's place and Anakin subbing for Obi Wan!
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1.Open note book
2.copy and paste
Clone War
3.save it as " clone.html "
4.open clone.html?Cclike right button "save as" ep2_clone_war_p640.mov
(Pls add .mov to it ?Cor you can only play it with QT Pro -
The old movies have good Actors, a good plot, good DIALOGUES???
sorry but they were as bad as in EPI... it was just the Holy Grail Story tranfered to Space, and a bit Tolkienism in it... but sure EPII will gonna rock HUGE SPACE FIGHTS - IT -
. . .all of the trailers for Episode 1 made *it* look most excellent, as well. Thus I will reserve judgement until I actually see the move. In the meantime I beseech thee, Mighty Illuvatar: let this film blow everything else off of the screen until THE TWO TOWERS comes out. Toppu o Nerae!
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Mr. All that Matters,
Your missing the point with that post. Palpitane is a much better politican than Valorium was. He is attempting to pull power towards him, Valorium was not. Palpitane engineered the crisis on Naboo to force Valorium from power and to facilitate his own rise to power. It is likely that Palpitane is engineering this crisis to gain even more power for himself, so the senate's actions in granting him emergency powers would make sense in the bigger pattern as the Republic changes into the Empire. -
What is the name of this trailer? So I know what to download off of Morpheus while everyone else is complaning about there being no mirror sites. While we are at it, what is the official name of the new Spider-Man trailer they played on Fox last night?
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http://suso.suso.org/mediafiles/ep2_clone_war_p640.mpg
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Looks like something straight out of the Eightys. Haven
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MPEG MIRROR OF AOTC HERE:
http://movie-list.com/s/starwars2.shtml
FOLLOW ALL LINKS!
THAT IS ALL.
TRANSMISSION OUT.
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Just because the SW universe is living a rich, peaceful period doesn't mean that everything should look clean and polished. The point is that when you use something, it gets dirty and weary. In order for everything to look so shiny and new all the time as in PM, every damn room, spaceship, weapon, etc, should be cleaned up every day. EVERYTHING should be cleaned every day. Not just in the palace of princess Amidala, but EVERYWHERE. It seems that every second person in the SW universe is a cleaner by profession or everyone has an armada of cleaner robots working 24 hrs a day. The problem is that we never see any of that. In every spaceship hangar we see in PM there should be countless of people/robots cleaning up the ships to make them so damn shiny. But there is none of that, Lucas simply assumes us to believe that everything looks so shiny and new, because... Well, there seems to be no reason. It lessens the crebility of the film. It doesn't look like a real world, but like a movie set. Hopefully AOTC will be better in this sense.
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Mar 11, 2002 8:42:13 AM CST
I would like to see any of you try to do all those effects witho
by lobanhaki
This is an effects film, first and foremost. It's meant to have tons of CGI and miniature models. To expect anything else, is simply to expect something different than all the evidence would suggest.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I think people are trying too hard to find fault with CGI that is getting pretty damn realistic. The water in the movie AI in the manhattan sequence is completely photorealistic. It is also completely faked. The limitations nowadays are more centered around workflow and render times. Workflow because modelling in CG at this point is done much by hand, and is only somewhat automated. Render Times because realistic shading, reflection, refraction, and throwing of light are fairly processor intensive, especially in dealing with lighting things from the light bounced off of surfaces (a particularly processing intensive trick called radiosity.) It also happens when you have huge amounts of geometry in a scene. But as the processors get better and the tools for modelling get better, the CG will get better, and you'll see less of the miniatures in shots (which is ironically one of the most "CG" looking things in most shots.
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Most of you fanboys declare yourself movie fans and critics, yet your not able to let a movie speak for itself and wait till it opens before judging. Silly comparisons between different movies and people declaring George Lucas and Star wars suck yet knowing every detail about backstories and charackters are outrageous. some of you are on their best way of becoming pitifull movie racists.
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from what I saw, it looks as though he will be the only one who turns in a decent performance, just as it was for TPM. Hopefully Christopher Lee will be able to lift up the overall quality of the acting from total shit to shit.
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Damn site's just a bait & switch to get users to upgrade Quicktime (yet again!). If you want to view the trailer in a large format (you know... so you can actually SEE the fucker), you have to upgrade at the cost of $29.95. The other two sizes, "Small" and "Medium" should more honestly be called "Sub-Atomic" and "Microscopic". If you want to pay $30 to see a fuckin' trailer, go ahead, but just realize that it Steve (Blow) Jobs ripping you off again!
-Kid Z -
It looked pretty shitty if you ask me. I pray I am wrong, but I wasn't that impressed.
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Personally, I liked the trailer, but i'd be lying if i said there weren't weak spots...I actually stand with the whining-fanboy consensus in thinking the "This is why I hate flying" line doesn't quite work...the "I'll be right back scene was definitely straight out of Fifth Element...and sorry, though I love John Williams' scores with a passion, i think Lucas could've picked a couple of better snippets of music to go with this trailer. But, honestly, other than that, i got no other beef with the trailer. It sets up the story quite nicely, and shows just enough of what's bound to be some fucking amazing action sequences to raise eyebrows(and further reinforce my knowing frustration with everybody in the republic metaphorically bending over, ready to take it up the ass from Palpatine. "Emergency power" indeed...). I have to admit, though, even though i'm still rather psyched to see this, and Crazy Uncle George has my 9 bucks coming for sure, this trailer didnt give me the same massive overload of endorphins the Phantom Menace trailer did. "Begun this clone war has" didn't give me the same chill that "Wipe them out...all of them." did(although, the look on Ian McDarmid's face as he said the line "I will assemble a massive clone army" almost makes up for it). Ironically, I have to make a confession...when i walked out of my living room at about 9:02, you know what the first thought on my mind was? "Fuck, Spider-Man's gonna kick ass." Not trying to insult Star Wars or anything, like so many LOTR bastards have been for 4 months now, but the Spider-Man commercial that aired a couple of minutes prior was 40 seconds of compacted adrenaline, adrenaline that i should've gotten from the Star Wars trailer but didnt. But that's good, considering in the midst of all the goodness that's coming our way in the next 3, 4 months, we've sorta forgotten that Raimi's Spider-Man's still coming two weeks before Episode II. But, of course, none of this really matters to some of you. I mean, really, if Frodo Baggins isn't involved, it's not even quality, is it? Dipshits. Anyways, theres my take on all this. Do with this as you will. Revolution is my name.
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WOW!!!!
That's all I can say!! Can't wait for this epic!!!!
Oh, by the way, I don't know how you guys obtain your information, but the trailer did air at exactly 8:59 pm. Geniuses!!!! -
A lot of fake looking eye candy sandwiched between dreary and insipid drama. Is it just me or do the actors look like they're pasted into every scene.
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Maybe I'm just getting older, but this trailer did nothing but make me yawn and think of the line, '...full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.' There's a great concept out there called less is more, and it really is. Also, bring back the use of models, please - at least it looked real. Whenever a real character comes into view against the CGI you may as well draw a dark line around them or something it's so obvious. And is it me, or did the actors look/sound bored out of their skulls? The albeit few lines were delivered with the conviction of a department store mannequin with a board up its ass. Oh, well - bring on Spidey and Kirsten.
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Here we go again, listening to Harry go on and on about how this is possibly going to be GL's Holy Grail of Star Wars... This trailer was "okay." Not great by any means... haven't we learned a lesson from EP 1? That trailer looked great, and the movie was only good not great... and the acting in this new EP 2 trailer looks very stiff and forced. Once again we have to listen to George Lucas's mediocre one-liners... ho hum... and I'm a Star Wars fan!! You want something to get excited about, look no further than the upcoming Two Towers trailer. EP 2 effects looked cool, but they looked like effects (ala EP 1). The LOTR series is seemless... with acting that is meaningful, masterful and natural. Peter Jackson has hit it on the head.. Star Wars is nothing more than a high-tech experiment for GL, and a side-show next to LOTR. I'll see the movie alright, and I guess that's all that matter to Georgie, but I'm still not all that excited... Two Towers excites me however... There's a new player in town..he lives in New Zealand, and he is opening a "I wanna learn me some high-tech movie making" summer camp in June of this year... interested George???
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Mar 11, 2002 9:29:53 AM CST
the entire trailer could've had Natalie Portman bare-ass nak
by majorq007
and you fuckers would've still bitched about how the CG in frame 198 looked a bit off. please, its a trailer, and--just like in episode one--the CG will be refined before the final release. now let's hope the plot and acting don't follow the same route as this film's predecessor.
And I'm not one to troll, but I can't beleive that there are those that blast the CG in this trailer and then have the gall to praise the mediocre CG in LOTR. Now, it worked in LOTR because the CG wasn't so heavy, so the true quality in storytelling was able to shine through in FOTR. but please, the SFX don't compare. -
......is how Obi Wan's hair doesn't move an inch as he and Anakin speed through Coruscant in an open topped speeder. Seems Lucas was too busy CGIing the shit out of everything to worry about details. Read someone above saying he'd take any of the creatures in EpI over the Rancor any day. BULLSHIT! The thing I loved about ANH, TESB and ROTJ was that I felt I could touch everything in the film and therefore the films seemed real! To visit the sets of those films would've been unbelievable! Can u imagine being on the set of Jabba's Palace? When I look at EpI and the trailers for EpII all I can think is "blue screen". How exciting do you think it would be to visit the set of these to see Ewan Macgregor and Hayden Christensen being jerked around in a Speeder balanced on a piston engine in front of a big fuckoff blue screen as George Lucas sits in his chair at Skywalker Ranch directing it all via sattelite? Wow, I'd really luv to see Sam L J waving his light saber at a tennis ball on a big stick in front of a big fuckoff blue screen! Give me a fucking break! I'll sit at home and watch the cheaper and far superior originals instead thank you very much. LOTR had awesome CGI environments but Jackson seems to understand that the effects should compliment the movie and not make it! The CGI environments were awesome in LOTR but corners were cut when it came to the Cave Troll and The Watcher at the gates of Moria but the thing is they didn't ruin the whole film. For me, Star Wars has moved on and those who are expecting The Star Wars of old are fooling themselves. These are completely different films and although I can appreciate them for their craft they don't hold a match to the originals. When I look at TPM and the trailers for AOTC they seem to remind me of that shite TV series Babylon 5! I rest my case!
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Matt Becker, you poor benighted soul, the original trilogy may not have been Shakespeare, but it sure sounds like it compared to Episode I. "I love you" -- "I know". "I've got a bad feeling about this." "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view." "There is another..." "I'd sooner kiss a wookie!" "Boring conversation anyway." Oh, and one more tiny little line that seems to have caught on: "May the Force be with you." These are all classic lines, among many others from the original Trilogy, that are fondly remembered and that live in film history. The same cannot be said about even a single misbegotten, miserable line from Episode I. Not even "Exsqueeze me." Qualopec has Spoken the Truth!
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I keep seeing that scene where Natalie Portman is jumping through the contraption that works like a giant piston crushing garbage. And all I can think about is the scene in "GalaxyQuest" where Sigourney Weaver looks at a similar contraption she and Tim Allen has to pass through.... And what was it she said? "WHOEVER WROTE THIS EPISODE WAS AN IDIOT!!!!!!"
Peace out.
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It's just a preview. And usually always almost all the time previews are GREAT!!!! Sure doesn't mean this movie will be great. Jumping out of his little transport Annakin falls through the traffic only to be..... not very realistic. I mean I know it's fantasy, but falling and jumping through the city seems just a little too much. AOTC the LOTR killer??? Ah, no, not really. And yes the acting is poor, that is obvious in AOTC. Best of luck, but remember the TMP preview ruled and the movie, didn't. AOTC, good for the kids, but for anyone looking for something hardcore in the SW universe (is that even possible) you are better off reading the books that are off shoots of Lucas's ideas. Pleny of time to sign my petition to get PJ to write/direct EPIII. Hurry, sign now!!! http://www.petitiononline.com/dgkomxpq/petition.html
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The trailer was decent but there's one thing everyone bitching about it is missing. Unless
You have a 50 foot screen that you watched it on there is no way of telling what it's going to look like in the theater. So quit whining and just wait for it like everyone else. -
Yeah, peej, sure you could reach out and touch the monsters in ROTJ... the thick, unmoving, rubbery masks of the Gammorean Guards that show no facial expressions (more important than moving hair, IMHO!); the teddy-bear fake costumes of the Ewoks; the muppety critters hanging out in Jabba's lair, and the horrendously blue-screened Rancor. Yippie. And what's all this BS about it being more fun to be on the set of ROTJ than AOTC? It would be no more fun to have watched Mark Hamil against bluescreen dodging an imaginary Rancor than to watch Hayden against bluescreen in a prop speeder. Besides, I care about the finished movie, not about how much fun it was for the actors to film the darn thing. Qualopec has Spoken the Truth!
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LOTR Rules! AOTC Sucks! No, wait, LOTR sucks! AOTC Rules! LOTR! AOTC!
Oh hell, look at that! I can like both movies! I don't have to choose. I can like one and not have to disparage the other.
Wait let me check.... Yes, yes look at that! It's not actually a competition. I can go to both movies if I want! Holy Shit! Do you people realize that? I can even own them both on DVD! (Someday) I don't have to choose! USA! USA! USA!
Morons. -
I mean, these new breeds are all about uber special effects!
Hell, the problem with it is that it's almost too slick and too good looking. This is supposed to be happening in the past, but it looks like the distant future from the original Trilogy.
I still don't think CGI is good enough to carry a film.
I, for one, miss the use of real models for ships. That battle at the end of TPM was so fast that it was almost hard to keep up with. You could tell it was all computer generated! I won't even go into how the battle with those droids looked like a scene out of Toy Story.
On the other hand, remember seeing those Special Editions in the theaters? My God, everything looked so real! I felt like I could reach out and touch it.
Less is more, sometimes. -
Man, can you people this trailer? No action whatsoever. Lucas is on crack. The CGI sucks. The dialogue is so very cheesy, like, totally. I'm not excited. I didn't get the "vibe". Boo hoo. Whine, whine. Did I cover everything? I'm just trying to fit in with the rest of the basement dwelling fanboys who have become so obsessed with their own self-indulgent "criticisms", that they wouldn't know a good movie if it wiggled on their faces. This movie is gonna rock. So please, all of you stay home........that just makes more room in the theatre for me.
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OK. BATUTTA, it IS just you. NFLREFUGEE, nobody DID ask you. BlakeFalls and JRRT, please. You both sound moronic, just shut up. DMODOG's right on the money. AVALONTOKIO, do us all a favor, please wait for the DVD and stop boring us with your posts. INDAR20, you've sacrificed your right to speak. ALL_THAT_MATTERS, you should take a valium or 10. WINO-FOREVER, please go back to your bottle and drink yourself to death for us. CUSTER, feel free to go to hell. And take FRISTED with you. Everyone else, I'll see you opening day for this movie. It's gonna be good.
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All you people saying that this was the greatest trailer ever have obviously forgotten the trailers for EP1. They were much better. They were more exciting, had better music, looked more finished, weren't as cluttered and capricious. Obviously, there is something wrong with the look of this trailer. Too many people have noticed that the CGI looks horrible. We're not making it up. How many out there agree that ships looked more real when they were models rather than CGI? That's because even though they were models, they were real objects with real light shining on them, moving in real space. I wanted to be impressed with this trailer. I had my VCR ready. But this is very underwhelming. Sorry. It's the truth. Take off your blinders and see it for what it is. There was nothing in the trailer that isn't a poor copy of what we've already seen in other movies. Lucas is no longer on the cutting-edge. He is playing catch up and losing.
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Where there is so much effects(and so little story telling) that it tires you out by the end?
I dunno. I should have been going way cooooooool but I was just like: cool.
Maybe it was the music.
Or the tiny screen(since we couldnt see the fucking thing in Canada--but I checked, in between promos for the x files and boston public they flipped to the trailer for a half second.)
damn CRTC. If Canadian movies and tv shows were good they wouldnt need to worry about simulcasting.
Ask a Canadian what was the last Canadian movie they saw--and I bet you it would be Scanners or Porkys.
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I am glad to see it used to fill in gaps, compliment, etc. but I don't think it's good enough to replace actors and I just don't think it should be the entire underline of a whole film. (Unless you are making Toy Story or something like that)
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The early reviews of this trailer said that Yoda captures blue lightning in his hand and throws it back at his attacker. That wasn't in there, was it?
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TPM would be awesome!!! Crow and Servo would annihilate the whole Annie (ANNIE!?!) leaving home scene. Attack of the Clones was a good MST as well. The one with Dick Sargeant and the lifetime companion olympics. Hilarious. Anyways, I'll be saving my 9 bucks to see the Rolling Stones, another 70's franchise that won't die.
UP THE IRONS!!! -
The droids are the heart and soul of these films, the characters who are present throughout all six episodes. When I saw them together, THAT was when I got the tingly feeling. Flying R2, though? Sheesh. I hope they get some decent screen time this time round, that's all. OK .... BEST BITS: A) Obi-wan's holo-report on Jango Fett being interrupted by the battle with the bounty hunter himself - you can see holo-Ewan in the council chamber with his lightsaber out! That was a cool touch. B) Christopher Lee and McDiarmid. How sprightly is Lee for a guy in his seventies!!
C) Battles. BIG battles. D) Amidala's slinky whiteness.
E) Did I mention the battles?
WORST BITS: 1) Dialogue still sucks , George. 2) Obi-wan hates to fly? I guess that's George's idea of a 'multi-layered character'. What a wuss! 3) Yoda's lines sound corny now. What sounded quirky yet natural in the original films (Yoda being a bit old and senile) just don't sound right in the context of official Jedi chambers. Look back at Empire and Jedi. He doesn't do that wacky syntax EVERY time he speaks. Less is more, you know? 4) Knowing that I'm still gonna see this thing ten times no matter how shitty is may be :-( -
Sure, the Rancor looked like you could touch it. It didn't look like Mark Hamill could touch it though, 'cause he obviously wasn't in the same room. Worst Star Wars effect ever, until the Greedo shooting first bit. For the record, I found the trailer quite thrilling and I suspect that all you jaded whiners should go back to downloading porn and quit your damn bitcin'. sk
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"I would be willing to bet that all the TPM haters saw it at least 2 times in the theater and at least two more times on vhs, and then another time or 2 on DVD." Once in the theatre. I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it again, and I had access to a bootleg about a week after the movie came out. (OK, the "making of" stuff interests me, I'll probably see the TPM DVD at some point) Not much to say on the trailer that hasn't already been said...besides the Fifth Element/Blade Runner type scene, anyone else reminded of other SciFi (starship troopers, etc)? I think that's a SW first for me...
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I know you've all been waiting to hear what I have to say about this trailer. Well, wait no longer. I did enjoy the action. The appearance of Christopher Lee. The army of Fett Troopers. But the scene that made me smile the most. That made me happiest had no CGI in it at all. (Or at least none that stood out.) The scene with Palpatine and Anakin where he says "I see you being the most powerful Jedi of the them all." or something to that respect. Other lines did seem a bit more "cheesy" like "I hate when he does that." ...hmmmm. To be honest, although I am looking forward to seeing this (as I was TPM, and as of course I will be for Ep. 3) I'm much more anxious to see pts 2 & 3 of TLOTR.
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OK, initially i was blown away by the trailer, but upon a second and third viewing, i did get a vibe from the CGI that screamed "FINAL FANTASY: THE SPIRITS WITHIN". Star Wars films have become marvels of animation and pioneering CGI, but the original films, while technically proficient were still more character driven. There were definetly glimmers of hope, Christopher Lee (That man is the Bong), Temura Morrison (Jango Fett) and Obi Wan having words. Hopefully they will get more character driven for AOTC.
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then i see that nintendo and square are back together makes this the best two days of my life!!!
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I'm not gonna BS. That trailer looked to actually EMPHASIZE many of the problems from TPM, Jar-Jar excluded. Too many effects. Too many effects. And, lastly, too many effects. MALADY? I don't think I ever heard Han or Luke say that. Since when does everyone in the Star Wars universe have talk and act like Prince Charles? Ya know what... I really didn't want to see the inside of the Senate Chamber again. I also didn't want to hear the word 'negotiations' in a Star Wars commercial and, by God, I got it in the first ten seconds. *** Only things that MIGHT be cool... the stuff with Jango Fett. Maybe, despite the fact that the effects look horrible, the Clone Wars. I don't know... I wasn't impressed. It's just more of the same. I'll stick to LOTR and the OT.
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I've never seen such beautiful visuals grace my television screen, the clips of the battles taking place made me drool for more. visually, it's amazing!! unfortunately, trailers don't tell you if the story's gonna be good or not. all i'm asking for are for characters with a 'bit more personality, i'm not asking for another Han Solo, but you gotta admit, he's probably the only person you've seen in a movie that's both a comic relief and a central character in the plot... he was pure genius. What i hated most in TPM was everyone looked like friggin' puppets who simply recited their lines. oh, and if this is supposed to take place a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, then why the FREAK DOES EVERY OTHER PERSON SPEAK WITH AN BRITISH ACCENT? oh and, WHERE ARE ALL THE ASIAN ACTORS? I demand to be represented in american cinema in lead roles (none of this side-kick, Kato-crap!) in movies produced by american studios... Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and any movie with Jet Li or Jackie Chan in them does NOT count!!! but anyways, the trailer for AOTC does it's job and does it well in hyping it up for all us hopefulls, i see the title is now gaining some respect now that we've seen snippets of what's to come...
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Do you remember when the first trailer for Episode 1 came out? Harry was freaking out, as was everyone in the talk back. Hell, I was caught up in it and just knew that the movie was going to be awesome. Then I saw the movie and checked this site and read all the talk back about how crappy the movie was and how Lucas had let them down. Funny thing was that it was all the same people that watched the trailer months earlier and claimed that this movie was going to be the second coming. I noticed 2 things last night while watching Fox. One: The trailer reminded me a lot of the first one for episode one. Two: Everything was so chessy that I almost laughed myself out of my chair. "I hate it when he does that"? You have got to be kidding. Everyone I was with last night just kind of sighed and agreed that this movie will be as bad as episode one - if not worse since Hayden looks to be a worse actor than Jar Jar Binks.
I will be looking for all of you on this board the morning after you see this movie. I will agree with you that Lucas let you down again. I will sign your campaign to not see episode 3 "The flocking of the cloned sheep" or whatever. And then I will see you all at the theater when it is released and we will all talk about how Lucas let us down. Then we will be able to stop this vicious cycle because there will be no more star wars. Then maybe we can go on with our lives.
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...the funnier JAY AND SILENT BOB STRIKES BACK gets. All I ask is that when Lucas loses it and goes to each and every one of your houses to rightfully kick your shit back up your mouth, is that he bring a camera crew with him and release it on DVD for my own personal amusement. Didn't like the trailer? Don't like the movies? Fine, they make a lot of movies nowadays, I'm sure there's one out there for you, but for the love of fuck, STOP THE NEGATIVITY! All you fuckers do is bitch and bash, bash and bitch! Nothing pleases you! You're trying to look cool in here, which is STUPID, because A) you're not even using your real name, B) none of us know you in the real world anyway, and C) nobody even gives a shit. Sad, the lot of you...
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For the dude above and others who are too lazy(can't really blame them either) for reading every post, here are the links for Clonewar Trailer MPEG: www.movie-list.com www.darthpsychotic.com and QUICKTIME LARGE: http://starwars.apple.com/ep2/clone_war/media/gate/ep2_clone_war_p640.mov
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...hunh?...wha?...oh, sorry, (yawn), I just fell asleep face-first on my keyboard reading this talkback. Had a dream about...about a big battle in a cinplex parking lot with kids with toy lightsabers killing their 'brothers' with bare furry feet and glowing blue daggers and even some trenchcoat guys in the background doin' flying kicks. Whoa. And there was Stiffler and the spoiled jock from "The Goonies" and some others off to the side laughin'. That was a dream, (yawn stretch) wasn't it?
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At one point anakin says something like "excuse me, I'm in charge of
security here m'lady" to padme....and his line delivery is terrible, sounds
so wooden! I have a bad feeling about him!
What was missing from the phantom menace was a strong central personal
story...there was too much politics, and in this trailer theres still all
this boring talk about negotiations and the republic....BOOORRING!!! In star
wars, all the imperial stuff was going on around them, but at the end of the
day luke had to rescue the princess and blow up the death star.
it may just be personal taste, but i just dont like the way this film or the
phantom menace looked.... theres no natural lighting, EVERYTHING is
massively colourful and full of cgi. If you think of lord of the rings, it
worked so well because so much of it was real; real landscapes, real skys.
in the first star wars, one of my favourite shots is when luke looks out at
the two suns setting..... everything about that shot is real except the
extra sun, which still looks real. I dread to think what that shot would
look like if lucas did it today. A big gaudy bright orange sunset with loads
of ships flying in the distance and a flock of weird monsters..... lucas is
going down the wrong road, he hasnt got a clue, these new films have no
soul!!!!!!
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Admittedly, the whole thing was eye candy for those of us of have been whining non-stop since Ep. 1. But is it just me, or did the dialogue seem just as hollow as before? I mean, Ewan McGreggor almost seems embarrassed to be there for any of his lines cut from the trailer...and presumably, that's the good stuff. And it was hard for me to get any sense of being worked up by the action...Lucas is trying so hard to create these new worlds, that everything remains visually spectacular and nothing remains "familar" enough for us to start getting any sense of worry...instead we comment on how realistic looking those weird-ass bird things were at the beginning.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not as consoled as some other people seem to be about the whole project. I think there have been steps in the right direction, obviously...I don't know. Just felt strong enough to post for the first time. Try not to rip me apart too badly :-)
Misterjim79
http://www.shootmenow.com -
Mar 11, 2002 11:25:13 AM CST
My dog shits on the carpet......I hate it when he does that
by crazy fresh dj
Seeing as they cut out that Joe Pesci scene out of the movie, the one where he goes 'Do I look like some kinda clone to you?is that it? You think I'm funny? Like ha ha funny? I'm some kinda fucking clone?!?' I was hoping they could of at least stuck it in the trailer, as they so often do. But NO. If they don't add it in the DVD, I'm gonna cry like a little fanboy bitch. And I hate it when I do that
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To Hell with all the nit-picking! It's a fucking trailer, made from the most available semi-completed scenes (some of which may not even be in the final print). No. The real travesty is that Lucasfilm just gave me the entire story and I don't really need to go to the movie. Dumbasses!
I recent saw one of the trailers of the Matrix that I had caught when I taping a tv show, and remember how little was spoiled in the trailer and then I looked at TPM trailer realized how great it would have been if I hadn't seen Maul, or his lightsaber until I was in the theatre seat. Now, the only thing that'll new to me will be all the filler in between. Also, I think it's total bullshit that Ice age is probably going to the number one movie (mostly, if not entirely) because of all the people who are gonna buy a ticket just to see the danm trailer. -
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaaha,......
Why am I laughing, you ask? Because you've all suckered yourselves out of having a good time with this movie. While you all are looking for CGI goof ups and "unrealistic" dialogue, I'll be zooming along with Obi Wan in that asteroid field having the time of my life.
It looks fun. It looks like Star Wars. And it looks as though everyone is too busy playing amateur filmmaker to go to the theatre and enjoy ourselves, like we did a long time ago...in a galaxy far, far away.. -
At the time of this post the phrase, "the acting was wooden", has been used 768.45826 times. There has to be another phrase that can be used to describe your impression of the actors' performances. Your lack of imagination explains a lot. "Search your feelings, you know it to be true."
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I HAVE COINED THE TERM. Let it go forth. *** Franchism: \fran'-chizm\ n (2002) 1: a belief that franchise is the primary determinant of filmic traits and capacities and that franchise differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular franchise 2: franchise prejudice or discrimination --- franchist \-chist\ n or adj. [See also: filmotry (archaic)] **** This doesn't mean critical dislike or genuine unappreciation of a particular film or films, or even heated discussion of them. This syndrome mostly manifests itself in ugly, immature franchist hate speech, ridiculous franchist generalizations of fanbases, and offensive rationalizations of franchise superiority. Often dismissed as mere "trolling," franchism is a far more pathetic and annoying phenomenon than random acts of internet mayhem. There's SW franchists, there's LOTR franchists, there's Marvel and Matrix and Star Trek franchists. It must be stopped, please. It's a truism that Film Snobs argue while Film Geeks fight, but we can still keep it civilized, eh? Even your local Fight Club has rules. END FRANCHISM IN OUR LIFETIME. Thank you.
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I hope you aren't suggesting that FOTR was not character driven. There were tons of SFX in it, but their were loads of character development, dialogue, plot, and subplot to balance it out. If you couldn't see the telling of a classic story on your screen when you saw it, I really feel pity for you. AD out
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Those guys had an idea of what a room looks like that people actually live in. It has personal effects and weathered, used objects. Everything was both aesthetic and purposeful. There is darkness and light, not freaking flourescent studio lighting everywhere! People are 100% correct in complaining about this trailer. I *will* let the movie speak for itself once I see it, but speaking does not seem to be its strong point. The dialogue is awful awful shit. They hurt my ears to hear them in any context. How is it possible that someone let these things slip through. Ewan McGregor could fart and it would sound better than that drivel he was made to say. Christ, even Ed Wood would have re-recorded some of those lines. TPM was too bright and plastic to be Star Wars. This one seems to be more of the same. Using CGI is fine for this purpose, but the problem lies in the design. Everything is just too grandiose, too bright, and too fake looking. The CGI is wonderfully done, but it just doesn't fit. Also, what is this arena bullshit that George keeps pulling on us? Why do we have to be subjected to large Roger-Rabbit-y sequences of laughing, jeering, honking animated aliens in arena seating?!?!?! That's terrible. We had it with the pod races and now we apparently have some overdone combination of the pod races and gladiator with Natalie Portman playing the tied-up damsel in distress. UGH. Finally: "Excuse me...M'lady" is such unimaginative writing, it just might cause me to die right here. I might just die the writing is so bad.
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I don't think AOTC is THE clone wars, but as Yoda said, "Begun this clone war has" (my opinion is it should have been "has war begun clone this". Seriously it should have been "Begun this clone war, it has," or "This clone war, begun it has.") It is only the beginning of the clone wars. warS. WarSSS. WarZZZZZZZZZZ. That's plural, people, and that means there is going to be more. I hope that is the case at least. I mean it would be aweful if "the clone wars" were contained in a single movie that lasts about a week or two. Wars have to long and drawn out, something that exhausts the mental endurance of all involved.
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If the rest of you whiny people thing you can do better. Go write your own story, create your own adventure in your own galaxy. And stay the h@ll out of Lucas'.
Just because it doesn't fit your perfect little narrow minded idea of what it should be, fine, Don't go a see it. But, you won't. You'll bitch and whine all the way to the theater and back again. Not bothering to just sit and enjoy. Its meant to be entertainment, check brain at the door. -
The Clone Wars had better not be a "war" as in the "war" between a million CGI Gungans and battle droids. "stiff tie-fighter flying?" Hey, I'd rather have that than a computer generated battle anytime!! I think that was one thing that really made the original triology so cool was that they used models and "canabalized millions of model battleships just to build the trench in the death star." With CGI characters it is like, who cares if a gazillion gungans die? I'm not saying that you can't have CGI battles, but they NEED cuts of close up action with REAL people in REAL battle.
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The war footage looks extraordinary, dialogue is right in line with the OT ("What kept you?" "Uh, we ran into some old friends!"), Christopher Lee is gonna have one HELL OF A YEAR (and I hope he lives forever, or at least another 10), lots light-saberin' action, a whole 'nother asteroid chase, the Kenobi/Fett action... hell YEAH! I'm dubious about CG Yoda, just doesn't seem necessary. Perhaps because he fights and they didn't want to go from inaction muppet to action CG, too jarring. >shrug< I just hope he feels as real to me when finished (he's not finished, right? did someone say that?) as Oz's muppet always has. I don't get the people claiming there's too much CG in the battle scenes. I don't see any other way of doing that. I'd only complain about CG in relatively static interior shots--seems unnecessary, reduces further the always-thin verisimilitude of SW (a root of the "too clean!" argument, I suppose). Nervous about the chomper-stompers, hope it's exciting, not silly. Anyway, it's the Attack of the Clones that I'm going to see this for. All that machinery! A Field of Jedis at WAR! BRING IT!
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You know, the state of fandom has sadly deteriorated since my youthful days. I can remember when we, the fanboys and girls of teh world would get excited about even the crappiest movies. Now, there's nothing but cynicism and bitching... before a movie even comes out. You have nothing to go on except trailers, second-hand reports and the say-so of "gurus" like Harry Knowles. You hated Phantom Menace, folks. Fine. You're entitled to your opinions. But let's not storm Lucasfilm with pitchforks and torches because you feel they've personally insulted you. They're just movies.
To make some changes, I propose a manifesto, a set of guidleines for a new fanboy state, one that will raise us above the curent bickering and childish behaviour that has stained fandom everywhere.
1. You can enjoy more than one movie. Believe it or not, it IS possible to like both Star Wars and Lord of The Rings. One is not better than the other, in the grand scheme of things. it all comes down to personal opinion Posting " AOTC will blow LOTR off the map" is juvenile and pointless. Slamming someone because they prefer one over the other does nothing but make you look like a half-wit. Respect personal opinion.
2. if you don't like it, don't watch it. Pissed that Micheal Bay is remaking CHAINSAW? Don't bother writing a petition or sending venomous e-mail to the studio. just don't see it. Your money has more power and speaks louder than your sophomoric attempts at internet wit. THIS is the only way Hollywood will learn. No profit equals no studio interest.
3. They're not out to get you. Lucas, Spielberg, etc. are not cackling away in some secret volcano lair looking to deliberately screw you out of your cash. They're just making movies. There's always a chance that a movie you've been anticipating will be less than desired. Thsi is the chance you take, so suck it up and deal with it.
4. Make valid arguments. it's not enough to say "this is gonna suck". Give us more to go on. better yet, wait for the actual film to come out and make it a present tense criticism ( ie: I thought it sucked).
5. When it's no longer fun, do something else. If the STAR WARS series or HARRY POTTER aren't your cup of tea, if you think Lucas is a hack or that it's just generally not enjoyable anymore, than by all means... get the hell outta here. You know that friend or acquaintance you might have, the one who goes to a party and spends all night pissing and moaning about how much it sucks, right? Don't you just wanna punch them square in the chops? This is how a lot of us feel about the pointless whining on these forums. If you don't like it, stop doing it. Learn a new hobby, watch other movies, or better yet...
6. get off your ass and do something about it. Seems everybody here has an opinion about how Lucas does his job. He doesn't know what he's doing, he's let us down, he' s lost it. Everybody's a goddamned expert. So do it yourself. Go make the next BLAIR WITCH or EVIL DEAD. Get out there and make a difference. Otherwise, let the people who have made this their living, their calling, go about their business. this goes for you too, Harry. You think Paul Anderson's a hack? Think SCOOBY-DOO's director is an untalented shill? put your money where your mouth is and make a movie. Als this will never happen as most people are content to point the finger at somebody else and point their shortcomings, real or imagined.
Let's just try and have some fun with this, folks. It's movies, entertainment. It's not gonna cure cancer, or solve the crisis in The Middle East. Just sit back, relax and stop yer yappin' when the lights go down. Let's make this fun again.
By the by, on "Clone War"...Bad dialogue? Have you ever seen a STAR WARS film before? it's never been Mamet. It's got lightsabers, robots, huge armies and lots of swashbuckling action. Looks like a STAR WARS film to me. I'll be there.
Sorry to take so long, just felt this had to be said.
The Mick -
"Lots of LOTR trolls in here"
Pot meet Kettle.
I like both franchises but you have trolled LOTR talkbacks for months. -
Just enjoy the movies for what they are and you can't judge anything, not a damn thing until the actual film opens on May 16th, 2002 not months before the movie opens. Stupid fucking people! Don't judge Episode 2 based on Episode 1 and lets see you who accuse Lucas of raping your childhood or whatever, of doing a better job. Until that happens just shut the fuck up. Makes me sick!
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Sure it's got some ham and cheese in it (but, as has been pointed out before, so did all the originals), but this time it looks like they might have a pretty good story. Of course, I think they had a good story in Episode 1, and just chose to pretty much ignore it in favour of too much ham and cheese, in jokes and attempts to satiate their incredible F/X addiction. Hopefully they learned from their mistakes and this time will keep focus.
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I kept rewinding my tape, and I just cant figure out what he says in the trailer. please help!!!
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I think there are way too many effects, im tired of CGI effects, i wish they would go back to models. Less is more!
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Thanks Blue Dragon! You are correct about everything!
Thanks -
The FX-laden scenes were on the drawing board while the Special Editions were coming out. I remember reading an interview with one of the ILM honchos who sounded terribly nervous discussing what was required for Episode One and how hard Lucas was pushing their R&D. This was, I'm thinking... '95 or '96? In particular I remember him saying something along the lines of, "What George has in store for Episodes 2 and 3, the technology doesn't even exist yet." Which had me palms clammy at the thought. And now we're seeing the technology... some people say it's still just not good enough. MAN does that sound spoiled! I just don't get it, meself.
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Mar 11, 2002 12:04:27 PM CST
More excitement in a 2 minute SW trailer than the whole of the 3
by spidey1000
Bravo Lucas and ILM.I might even cough up $8 to watch it once I have seen Raimi's masterpeice oh..say...a dozen times.
God help us if Peter Jackson is inflicting an even longer cut of FOTR on us via the dvd.His original "vision" was merely 5 actions sequences padded with 2 hours of mind numbing exposition! Another hour of boredom and Viggo Mortensen looking constipated?
Please God..no! -
If the tone is serious-ing up, and there's no winking film references like the ETs, 2001 pod, or a Tarzan yell, I'll be mighty pleased. Won't know til I see it, and I can't wait to see it. (Christ that battlefield stuff was fantastic!) I just hope that I'll hardly be able to wait to see it a second time....
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You point out, quite rightly, that Lucas has really pushed movie F/X to the limit, and I agree. I can't speak for everyone, but for me, I sometimes need to ask "why". Sometimes a low-tech solution can be better, and sometimes you need the technology to tell the story.
2 examples: Original Star Wars, everyone was excited about the great effects, but the best part was that they could not have told the story without these greate effects. Lucas himself has said that this was the key to the long term success of the films.
On the other hand, in Episode 1, what purpose did Jar Jar server OTHER that being a brilliant bit of special effects? Could they have used a real actor, or an actor in a costume, and gotten at least as good, or even better, results? I think so. I also think that some, certainly not all, of the CGI backgrounds in the trailer (which I liked) would have been better if they were sets. -
Between Ewan McGregor's looks of "I-can't-believe-I-agreed-to-be-in-this-piece-of-shit", to Hayden Christianson's "I'm in charge"whine, this movie looks like it'll be the same steaming hunk o' poo the last one was. At least it'll give us all something to talk about. I want it to be good, don't misunderstand me. But I am getting the same feelings I got when viewing TPM's trailers. Looks cool, bad acting, where's the story? George Lucas is a visionary- when it comes to a marketing plan. Good luck,SW fans! You don't want to like anything else, so good luck to your mindless cult! Hopefully, at some point, you'll fade into obscurity, with your whines of 'Jango-Boba-JarJar' dwindling into nothingness.
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At long last, we see the long trailer for Ep2. Was it good? Yes. Was it great? No. I think of the three trailers, this was the least, but not in terms of its reflections on the movie. I just think it seems like the most rushed and least thought out; I don't know why Lucasfilm would hype a trailer (when was the last time you saw a commercial for a commercial?) then release something that with a little nipping and tucking and stronger music cues, would have been spectacular instead of just ok. That art of commercial making aside, let me address some of my initial thoughts. First of all, the individual set pieces look thrilling. Lucas seems to be taking the audience through the transition from shiny, elegant sets to the grungelike world of the original trilogy. My favorites: the cantina, the city on water, and the arena in the desert. The conveyeor belt scene reminded me of the trash compactor scene in the original. The first shot of the Stormtroopers against a red sky is right out of a Sci Fi dream. I, for one, feel the dialogue is in direct link with the original trilogy. Lines such as "I hate it when he does that" is delivered by Ewan McGregor with the same plaintive weariness as Harrison Ford delivered such lines as "Don't everyone thank me at once" or Hayden Christansen saying "She's intoxicating" reminds me of Mark Hamill saying "Who is she? She's beautiful!" It doesn't bother me, and McGregor is a better actor than anyone in Star Wars except for Alec Guinness. This time, unlike TPM, McGregor seems to be at the dramatic center of the movie, where he should be. From all indications, the tension between Anakin-Obi-Amidala finally seems to be developing. A movie late, but still welcome. The supporting performance by Christopher Lee is welcome. He has the right theatrical pomposity for Star Wars and, following in the footsteps of his old Hammer cohort Peter Cushing, brings a smile to my face. As excited as I was for TPM, I noticed warning signs in the original trailer that proved true in the final movie (Jar Jar, the kid). Here are my reservations about this movie: The HD looked too bright. I knew this would be the case with the extremely high resolution, and I didn't notice being a problem when I saw the early trailers in the theatre. I'll be curious to see this trailer in the theatre and comparing the look of the two. I think the degradation of the datacine transfer to film warms the image enough to make it replicate film, or, at least, degrade the image to remove the brightness. The brightness showed the edges of some of the CGI fx. I'm confident all technical issues will be taken care of by release time, as ILM is still the gold standard in effects houses. In all honesty, this trailer really looked rushed, with incomplete shots put in. My other reservation is with Lucas' story structure. For all my misgivings with TPM, the most taxing aspect of that movie was with the constant dialogue about Trade Federations and Senators. When this trailer began with Palpatine talking about it, my eyes rolled back in my head. It's something that clearly interests Lucas' archaeological and sociological side, but I found it unnecessary. I want more of the character interrelationships, that incredible triangle, those colorful supporting characters. Not the political machinations. I mean, this is Star Wars, not Spartacus. Hopefully, Lucas will just have enough to set the table then let the drama unroll. Anyway, this is more writing than should ever be done for a two minute trailer. Those are my thoughts, critical and impartial. The good news is that nothing I've seen so far would keep me away from opening day. Lightsabres locked and loaded!
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Mar 11, 2002 12:35:11 PM CST
Were they all jetlagged during filming? Too much dramamine on t
by bunger
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I loved it. Upon my first viewing, there was way too much to absorb. But the second, third, and on, my gosh, I loved it so much. There was a lot there, but I'm sure only a smidge of what's to come. When Obi-Wan was flying, it was amazing (even though the Jedi doesn't like to fly ). I've heard people say that the music didn't quite fit, but one part that I thought was perfect was when we see Anakin swinging two light sabers at once. I loved how Dooku and Palpy were trying their darndest to get Obi-Wan and Anakin, and I loved the look of the film. It might look cold to some, but I believe that when seen all together, within the context of the entire film, all of the scenes will look marvelous. I look at this trailer as one part of a huge trailer, with the three prior trailers giving us some character background, some plot, and this giving us the bang. It was a beautiful trailer. I can't wait 'til May 16!
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That guy was right about you talk backers. It's just like in Jay and Silent bob. "Lucus let us down..." If you guys could take a second and understand that he is not making this movie for you. He ownes your asses. He's already counted the money you guys are going to spend watching this movie over and over again and then buying the DVD. Your his women. Tell which one of you will not go and see this movie the first day it's open. That's right. Lucus has lost it. Whine whine whine. Star Wars will be good. That's a fact. I loved the trailer. I think this will be a good movie. I will be there the first day. You guys come here and rip on the whole Star Wars movies like their crap. Somebody was mad that it's a frachine of movies. Grow the F*ck up man. Star Wars=Crap. Yeah right. That guy probably has a Darth Maul figure on his monitor and refuses to wash the Darth Vader shirt he's had since he was ten. I'm not pay for this I'm sneaking in you dumb sh*t. YOu guys nitpick the holy trilogy from your basements and mothers homes. Grow up. It's a movie. It's going to have amazing fight scenes and wonderful Special effects. That's it. Man if half of you cared this much about goverment this country wouldn't be going down the crapper.
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Harry and I must have watched different trailers last night, because I was profoundly disappointed with this trailer. While visually splendid (save the one fake close-up of Natalie Portman firing her weapon near the end--pardon me, she was splendid, but the background seemed out of place), this trailer had no narrative push. It did not build to anything but rather dull and stilted lines (even poor master Yoda's lines sound like a ventiloquist's dummy--oops! I guess he is). This trailer was not the least bit exciting. I was really jazzed by the DVD teaser, but this trailer makes me think we're just in for more trade negotiations (funny... there's even mention of negotiations in the trailer too). Star Wars is not WAR AND PEACE. It is time, Mr. Lucas, to give us adventure and not Mr. Tolstoy (good though he is, only Leo Tolstoy had the talent to pull that one off). James Cameron burned our ears with the lamentable Titanically bad dialogue that yearned to be Boris Pasternak (Dr. Zhivago). Old Boris won the Nobel, and Jimmy boy, an Oscar may be cool, but it ain't no Nobel thing!!! Bring on the Attack of the Clones, but I don't know if I even want to wait on line now. I'll just go to the multiplex like any other summer movie. SIGH!!!
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Mar 11, 2002 12:38:47 PM CST
Seriously, cheesy dialog works if you deliver it like yer about
by bunger
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Mar 11, 2002 12:41:49 PM CST
I mean, compare Han, Luke and Leia in the Death Star to the humd
by bunger
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Very reminiscent of the old "live action" cd-rom video games. Remmeber how those were cutting edge technology and how "real" everything looked? Riiiiight.
The thing is, if the story is compelling and the characters are sympathetic, then the effects just become a background for all of that. We've already seen so much in movies that most of us are no longer impressed by effects. It's all about the story. As for whether or not Lucas got that right this time, we won't know for a couple more months.
Sorry, but none of these trailers would have caught my interest if they weren't Star Wars connected. Just because it is Star Wars I'll be seing it at least once, it's the repeat business that is still in question. -
you rabid haters and droolers might actually enjoy these films if you didn't put every rumor, press release and clip from these films under a microscope to make sure it is up to your standards. I am one of those who completly stays away from all that bullshit and goes to see the movie with a fresh unspoiled view. And guess what I enjoyed TPM in the theatre. I'm not saying it's the best damn movie of all time and with more viewing I do find its faults but my point is I didn't know every shot and plot point going in and like a kid on x-mas I unwrapped a pleasant surprise on that fateful day in 99. SInce it's far too late for you fanatics maybe wanna try it for Ep III. Next time around try turning the channel when you see a trailer about to start don't hang outside the Lucas temple ( ie his websites) like leppers begging for coins and don't by up every Mag with the slightest reference to the new movie. You might have a good "child" like experience, instead of it being like a college thesis with footnotes and a bibliography. Save that for after the movie. Plus it makes you crave that movie all the more cause your like a junkie strung out for that fix and you know it's not coming for 2 mos 5 days and counting. I'll be the one in the back awe struck as the movie plays cause I haven't seen shit about it.
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Much ado about nothing if you ask me. Personally, I thought TPM blew, and this one looks a bit better, but the older ones weren't so antiseptic. LOTR looked twice as good, IMO, but I didn't feel the distance with the characters ("characters?" what a concept!) that I feel with this new trilogy. It looked like the actors were just standing in front of a screen showing "Final Fantasy" . . . BRING BACK LATEX! www.Mangyk9.com
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I agree about Jar Jar, who existed for one plot thread only and one which turned out to be not that interesting. I said earlier that the CG Yoda just feels unnecessary, that the shots of him/it so far don't seem to be doing anything that a first-class muppet in the hands of Frank Oz couldn't handle. I was more addressing the major battle scenes, the huge ranks of clones, droids, walkers, Jedis, and whatever-else-is-in-there's, basically the last third of the trailer. It's the people griping about THAT astounding sci-fi large-scale war footage as being "too many effects" that I jist cain't cotton to.
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Get Jay and Silent Bob over here so these greasy whiners and wannabee po-boy critics can be bitch-slapped into Sunday! God, it would do my heart good to see you complainin' wankers lose a pound of flesh over a fuckin' rotisserie. Hell, I'll bring the beer! fuckin' sheeps!
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I thought the CGI looked fine, except in the close-up cockpit scene with Obi-Wan, which resembled a cutscene from a video game. In places, the CGI backdrops look more like matte paintings, but I've got no problem with that. The dialogue in the trailer doesn't seem bad, you've got to keep in mind that lines like the "m'lady" one aren't being heard in context just yet. For all we know, it could've been a snappy retort. Here's hoping all that makeup doesn't diminish Ian MacDiarmid's (sp?) performance.
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Is this supposed to be a cartoon with live actors? I think people here need to understand that bigger is not always better.
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Some of you are insane. I scroll down some of these talkbacks and read some of the most braindead commentary I've ever seen. Talking about how the trailer feels "rushed" or that it didn't have a story. Well excuse me but I'm glad the trailer didn't give away too much story. I'll let the actual MOVIE do that. My God people listen to yourselves!!
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I'm not letting my expectations soar. I'm not getting cynical about Lucasfilm, and I'm certainly not going to compare it to Lord of the Rings. I'm going to see this film because I have loved watching movies in the theater since I can remember. Isn't that why we're all so interested in Ep II in the first place? Just enjoy it or don't enjoy it.
That's about it for now. out. -
In this day, I see people have forgotten what inspired Mr. Lucas to write his space adventure known to us as Star Wars. He was inspired by the Saturday morning serials, he used to watch as a child. Most of you, wouldn't have a clue as to what those were. Did those serials have great acting, no. Did those serials have great lines, no. What was the point then, they were fun, they were entertaining. We're you suppose to sit down and analyse them. no. People today have forgotten what movies are suppose to be. Entertainment. Period. Nothing more, nothing less. And for me, ever Star Wars movie has entertaining, each in its own way. From Luke's half @ss head turn, to Jar-Jar's tongue in the power coupling. I will pay the 8$ in the theater, maybe even a couple times, and then I'll pay the 20-30$ for the DVD to add to my collection. Why? Because I know what movies are suppose to be.
Momo, thanks for noticing. :) -
Don't understand what the "It still looks too CGI and cartoony?!" fuss is about. Lucas has always been the beta tester of digital film/fx/sound technology to it's limits. If this technology existed in the 70's you know he would've used it and the films he'd then make today would be looking even more advanced and out of character to you. So your whines are futile. I think the digital photography used on this film was amazing... finally the CGI dosen't stick out among actors, they blend within the backgrounds/cgi cleaner.
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I can't stop watching the trailer. May is so far away yet.
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Mar 11, 2002 1:18:10 PM CST
most of the world is far too cynical to enjoy star wars
by gunnarcannibal
those who are dissecting this movie have lost their way and have forgotten how to view a Star Wars film
I am sorry that your life sucks
but don't take it out on Star Wars because it loves you
Stars WArs is about innocence and fun and being taken away from one's own miserable life where they can't seem to make any difference...to go somewhere where great things happen...when you were kids did you really care about the writing or how the lines were pulled off...it was the escape...star wars is anti-hip it isn't watered down it is the reason one goes to the movies...to get away...star wars was never intended for those who spend their entire existence hating themselves and everything that brings others joy...if star wars doesn't make you happy do not bitch to the ones who love it for we know you wish you could be as easily amused and as free as we are....it is a movie created for escape...those who feel the need to bash what brings others joy can just sit with their arms folded across their chest and drown in their own bitterness -
obviously it matters to you All That Matters or you wouldn't be annoying us with your caplocked self-important rant about something you say doesn't matter to you
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I'm not sure if this was answered already, but Jango says, "They'll do there job well" in regards to the clone army and um, about the dialogue between Obi-Wan and Anakin in the speeder, it was just fine. If you watch the "Mystery" trailer, we get to see them during another part of the chase and they both reflect the idea that they're chasing someone, flying at incredible speeds, and Obi-Wan is a wee bit pissed at Anakin for being so reckless. All that we've seen from these trailers add up to what, about 10 minutes worth of footage. The film is going to be over 2 hours long and so, we need to wait and see how these bits and pieces of beauty is incorporated into the film overall. I'm sure it'll be wonderful. I know it will be. This trailer was all about action, the Jedis, their foes. "Forbidden Love" was all about Anakin and Padme's love for one another. "Mystery" was about Obi-Wan and Anakin. Smoosh all that together and oh my gosh, you've got an awesome movie. I have my fingers crossed!
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both of you. Please keep the folowing in mind when reading any SW talkback at AICN: 1) The average 15 year old geek suffers from a poor self image, sexual frustration, few social outlets, & lack of control over their environment. This makes them extremely critical, cynical, & anti-mainstream. Hence, their favoritism of the (perceived) less-popular LOTR vs. the ultra-mainstream SW prequels. 2) In effects (& all visual media) lighting is everything. It is FAR MORE DIFFICULT to make a photo-realstic effect that is brightly lit (ala Ep. 1 & 2) than to do effects in poor light. All of the CGI in LOTR was in poor lighting. The surfaces were diffuse (no reflections). This made the POORER QUALTITY effects in LOTR look more 'realistic'. In the prequels, there are numerous brightly lit scenes & (even in the darker scenes) the objects have high reflectivity. This is orders of magnitude more difficult to render & process with the same degree of 'realism'.
3) It is ironic that people who LOATHE the mainstream compare movies based on box office receipts (EXAMPLE: LOTR will kick AOTC's ...), when box office receipts are primarily indicitive of a movies mass appeal, not overall quality. -
Sorry. Just had to say that. Bitch all you will, gainsayers, right now the only thing I wish would be changed about AOTC is the Episode title. Your not going will leave that many more empty seats for us to fill. ******* Of course, with Natalie Portman up on the screen, I don't think I'll care if the SFX are crap or the dialogue is stupid or the characters are poorly acted. ********* Oh Natalie, please take me with you. My light saber has a can-opener. I can make Gungan tongue pat
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All you (Expletive Deleted) are gonna pay, You are the ones who are the ball-lickers. We're gonna (Expletive Deleted) your mothers while you watch and cry like little bitches. Once we get to Hollywood and find those Miramax (Expletive Deleted) who are making that movie, we're gonna make 'em eat our (Expletive Deleted), then (Expletive Deleted) out our (Expletive Deleted), then eat their (Expletive Deleted) which is made up of our (Expletive Deleted) that we made 'em eat. Then you're all (Expletive Deleted) next.
Love,
Papa Lucas
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Mar 11, 2002 1:24:31 PM CST
i haven`t seen the trailer yet because it is doooowwwnnnloooaaaa
by drjones
hehehe....anyhow it`s funny to read that talkback....even these f** stupid basher posts...*sigh*(not that i`m against that everyone should have his own opinion but...you know)
*********...i think noone reads or understands my posts anyway because it`s such a bad unreadable english....***********i`m a lil bit confused now and turn crazy because i`m waiting for this DAMN TRAILER!!!!-)
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Mar 11, 2002 1:32:15 PM CST
My God, you people complaining about the the CGI being gratuitio
by suicidal_sith
So many people crying..."Waaa Waaa" there is to much CGI, it looks fake "waaa waaa" you don't need it for the story "waaa waaa waaa sniff sniff". Well you dumb fuckers you do need it for the story...if you didn't use CGI you would have to cut the SCOPE and EPIC feel of the film down to nothing...NO COURUSCANT...NO LEGIONS OF CLONES...NO MONSTEROUSLY HUGE BATTLES. None of the fucking shit you are all complaining about can be done without CGI. Some fucking knuckle head down the list a ways said they should have done it all with sets. Holy fuck, how fucking stupid are you people? You can't build sets big enough to match the scale of the movie. Go back and watch the original trilogy, not the fucking Special Additions but the original fuckers that I saw in the theater twenty years ago when I was a teenager. There are no grand scale battles, no huge vista's, no massive bustling cities of epic proportions. Everything is small scale. Like Cloud City, no big grand shots, you can't even see out the windows on the original set. Christ, you people make it sound like the original films had better special effects. Well they fucking don't. All the ships had matte lines around them, and the glass matte paintings looked like fucking paintings, and there was not an epic scale to anything. If the new films were on the scale and scope of the old they wouldn't even live up to current television production values. CGI is the only way that Fantasy/Sci Fi movies can be made and have any real freedom to show vast and strange new worlds. If you fuckers can't deal with the fact that you know when you see a world that doesn't fucking exist in real life, that your looking at CGI (what else could you be looking at right?), I suggest that you give up Fantasy and Sci Fi all together. Go rent When Harry Met Sally, I'm sure there is not a single special effect in that entire fucking movie, and you won't have to use you fucking imagination one fucking bit.
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Mar 11, 2002 1:32:39 PM CST
Star Wars is over people - Jimmy Smitts is the final nail in the
by thegrunter
(Just a-movin' this talkback entry over to the "official" EPII talkback - since no one seems to be reading the old one) It's official - this is going to suck bantha balls. Lucas didn't listen to a damn thing the critics sniped about. I wouldn't mind so much the CGI overload or the brand-freakin'-new virtual "actor" they apparently have playing Yoda in this movie ('cuz he sure doesn't look like the Yoda of ESB, ROTJ or even TPM), if the script had dialogue that wasn't completely embarrassing. Lucas didn't fix the dialogue. It's unbelievably obvious. Every line uttered in this series of trailers is stilted and flat. "Yippee" and "wizard" have been replaced with "m'lady" and (say it with me now) "the greatest jedi . . . EVER!" The best line - that of Count Dooku asking Obi-Wan to "join him and crush the Sith" - was cribbed almost word-for-word from one of Vader's soliloquies during the saber-battle in ESB. If the movie doesn't work in a simple READ-THROUGH - all the CGI tricks and scribbles in the world won't make it a good film. "Phantom Menace" didn't work because the script was dead on the page. Lucas ignored the process of telling us the story through the words the actors were mouthing and instead relied solely on his technical bag of tricks. How do these trailers suck? Let me count the ways. - Obi-Wan and Anakin doing that tired Borscht belt style comedy patter while flying over Coruscant? - That Ghost Rider style jedi-cycle Anakin cruises by on Easy-Rider style in the "Jedi's can't love" trailer? - Yet another shot of a swooping spaceship zeroing in on a techno stalagtite-stalagmite machine configuration followed by a really big explosion? (Hmm, where did we see that before? Oh, right - in the heart of the rebuilt, fully operational Death Star and in the accidental destruction of the gigantic powdered donut shaped Trade Federation remote control ship.) - The return of the prop desk where Kabuki Amidala made her dreadfully dull "I will not condone a course of action that will lead my people into war" speech - with equally as many static, posed officials standing around muttering flat, emotionless dialogue. - A return to the pulse-pounding "vote of confidence / vote of no confidence" Galactic Senate "debates." Yeah, yeah, I know - the prequel apologists insist this is where all the depth and shading to the new trilogy lies. I got it the first time. Wake me when the wire-fu lightsaber battle begins. - A repeat of Palpatine's snide duplicitous back-handed compliments to Anakin (who -- GET THIS -- will turn into Darth Vader before this is all through *shock* *surprise*). - The poorly-rendered Brenden Fraser "Mummy"-style CGI aliens (could they be "Geonosians?") heckling from the grandstand for the Jedi arena throwdown? - The still completely UNINHABITED world of Naboo - whose capital city is utterly devoid of a population - as depicted in the now-infamous "may I carry your luggage, m'lady" trailer sequence? What is Amidala ruler of? Rotting palaces and waterfalls? And a sacrilege so unholy it needs it's own paragraph: JIMMY FUCKING SMITTS IN REALLY, REALLY BAD POOFY PURPLE RENAISSANCE FAIRE GARB?!?!?!? WITH A GREASY MID-80s EL DEBARGE-ERA HOME PERMANENT - NO LESS?!?!?!?! (Sing along with me now: "Who's the jedi? She said . . . and smiled in her special way.") - Yet more rehashed "Star Wars" formula ground troop battles -- this time with orange desert sand instead of the frosty white tundra of Hoth? I can damn well guarantee that the climax of this cartoon will be a series of swift cuts between: (1) a lightsaber battle between Anakin and the villain of the moment - most likely Dooku; (2) a pointless ground battle between two CGI armies over an inconsequential planet that conveniently has a new "climate" for Lucas to capture in digital pixels; and (3) an abbreviated space battle, devoid of rhyme or reason - just designed to have a few new toys flash by the camera and look pretty. Why can we judge these space-battle shots now you ask? Because just like last time, the screen time alloted to the space battle will be minimal. In fact, the shots we saw in the trailer might just literally compose the entire space battle - period. He did it with "Phantom Menace," kiddies. Rest assured, he'll cut corners and do it again in the child-friendly sequel prequel. Even the Mario Brothers moment with Amidala just speaks volumes as to the quality of this film. Didn't it feel like you needed the Nintendo controller in your hand to watch that leap-through-the-pointless-machine-chomper scene? Lucas is about nothing but the bottom line. Back in the day - when he was still a fresh-faced director, pumping out odes to 50's street drag-racing - we'd never have seen a story that was so obviously driven by the toys, videogames, pajamas, and McDonald's Happy Meal trinkets that Lucas will churn out. How I could go on. And I haven't even brought up the Jar-Jar factor. Mark my words. This movie will duplicate all the mistakes of "The Phantom Menace" and most likely add more. And this time all those mistakes will be rendered in jaw-droppingly garish ORANGE tones!! All my hopes went down the drain watching this trailer. Star Wars is over. Period. Too bad "Spiderman Takes on the Green Power Ranger" looks so cheesy. Because one thing's for sure -- it's going to be a really loooooooong dry summer for film.
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George Lucas is introducing us to a whole new world. Perhaps that is exactly how it's supposed to look? With all the lights, all the activity. It looked wonderful to me. I loved that part, but one of my favorite shots was the glimpse we got of the arena at the beginning of the trailer. Awesome!
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Mar 11, 2002 1:36:29 PM CST
elfkiller: nobody's buying the "all negative comments are f
by minderbinder
You trolled on the LotR boards, now you troll on the SW boards. Nobody cares.
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I can't believe this yabo made it through the casting calls... his line readings are awfull... he sounds like he's trying to be a young John Wayne...
How will Lucas explain how Anakin's 20th century American accent turns into the stately cadences of James Earl Jones? -
I am a Star Wars fan and that trailer looked like a fucking video game. Cheesy fucking one-liners every other second, and that's the best stuff they could put in? The big battle looked like the Gungan battle all over again. The acting looks pathetic in every trailer that's been out. Everything looks so damn fake. I can understand the statement that the LOTR actors said when visiting the STar Wars set: "Everything here is so sterile." Now I see what they meant!
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You know how at the Oscars and stuff people wear those little ribbons on their lapels for disease awareness or other causes? Wouldn't it be cool if we had some kind of online equivalent of a ribbon - an e-ribbon, or some kind of anachronym that lets the poster show they support both SW and LOTR (instead of having to spell it out for every post). I mean, c'mon - Most of us like both anyway, right? How about PBJH - Peace Between Jedi and Hobbits. Or CLIIBFAHKAIBSGOI - Christopher Lee Is In Both Franchises And He Kicks Ass In Both So Get Over It. C'mon folks, show a little respect. One Ring to rule them all, One Force to find them, Two franchises to bring them all, and in the talkbacks bind them. And oh yeah, I like both SW and LOTR.
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sometimes i think that all of these aggressive bashers just want to take the other people of the forum for a ride. but BABABOOEY FETT!!! your theory sounds pretty good...(btw:i`m 16)
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Jeez, did they shoot anything on a real set? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, CGI looks fake, just a different kind of fake than we had before.
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What I use my money for is my own business. And I will be most satisfied on the way I spend it. Atleast I don't have the arrogant gall to assume that Lucas has to make a movie to satisfy the fans who have no clue. Lucas is making the movies he wants to make, he always has. If you don't like it, don't go to it and personally, don't whine about it.
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To all of you complaining about the CG, go back and stick in your old tape of "Return of the Jedi." Not the Special Edition, mind you, but the original or THX Remastered one. Just look at the screen every time a TIE Fighter flies across, and see the distinct matte lines. It's like the TIEs have a square shaped force field around them. Personally, I think the effects look good. It looks like it is going to be a fun flick, which is what Star Wars should be: a fun flick, a nice diversion.
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This is getting out of hand. Star Wars was supposed to be fun, a little room I would escape to when my parents were having one of their fights, or when a particularly bad day would come along, there was always Star Wars. Pure, innocent fun, that came with the push of a button in the back of my mind. It gave me my appreciation of movies, it gave me a wonderful galaxy to visit and become a part of. It was supposed to be a simple little fairy tale, like The Three Little Pigs, or Alice in Wonderland, I don
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How the hell can anyone who is honest with themselves look at that trailer and not see that this is more of the same BS? How? It's mind-boggling. And I'm not a 15 yr. old pimply faced TBer, I'm 26 and I'm married. I have a real job. I used to be a Star Wars freak until TPM. I still love the other three films, but this shit has to stop. Before LOTR, I had never read any of the books except for The Hobbit back in my freshman year of high school. It was good, but I was never into the whole sword and sorcery thing. I liked it, but not that much. When everyone started going nuts over FOTR well in advance of its release, I HONESTLY didn't even want to see it, because after TPM and so many others, I thought it would suck. Nothing lives up to even the smallest amount of hype anymore. Plus, it wasn't really my cup of tea to begin with. After hearing all these great things upon its release, I decided I might as well check it out. That was TWO WEEKS after it opened. I wasn't standing in line pissing my pants on opening day or even opening week. Wow, what an amazing experience it was to finally see something I fall in love with. I didn't even WANT to like it and I wound up putting it in my top five film experiences of all time. TPM ranks number one among the worst. Expectations had a lot to do with it, but it also had to do with a shitty plot, horrible acting(Natalie Portman's annoying monotone made me sicker than Jar-Jar, who I didn't mind too much)WAY TOO MUCH CGI, and God knows what else. Everyone here needs to stop making excuses for all this. If it sucks, it sucks. There are a lot of other movies out there that are worth your attention. The worst argument of all, in my opinion, is when people say, 'Oh, you're just not willing to suspend disbelief, the other films were just like these, but you were too young to notice.' Really? So I guess the critics who heaped praise on the other three were too young to notice as well, huh? And my parents, who never enjoyed the other three films that much to begin with, saw TPM AND THIS TRAILER (we were all in front of the television together last night to watch that 9-11 documentary)and OBJECTIVELY said it was horrible compared to the 'first few star wars films'. The point is, a lot of people who don't give a damn one way or another think TPM sucked and that AOTC looks like more of the same. Getting back to that sense of wonderment, 'you're not letting your 'inner child' enjoy this' argument. Let me tell you something, my 'inner child' loved The Iron Giant. That was a film that brought those feelings I got when watching Star Wars and E.T. all those years ago rushing back. So did LOTR. I felt the sense of awe, the tingling down my spine... the jaw-dropping beauty of another world, the sadness of characters with a terrible burden on their shoulders, a burden nobody from our 'real' world would be able to deal with. With TPM and this trailer, I can't even get over the wooden acting, nevermind the damn effects. Effects are a lot harder to do in the daylight? How does that excuse anything? Hearing that just doesn't make me go, 'Hmm. you know what, you're right, I LOVE TPM NOW, AND I CAN'T WAIT FOR AOTC!!!!' Just how people can think this stuff is any good is beyond me. I guess I'm out of touch or something. One doesn't need to see FOTR to know that TPM and AOTC are nothing more than an excuse to print money. I'm at a loss to figure this all out... BTW, the people who really love TPM, that's good for you. I can tell who you are. You're the people who get on here and just say, 'Hey, can't wait for this one!' or 'Man, I don't know what your problem is, TPM rocked!' I have nothing against those people. They genuinely enjoyed it. It's the people who write TBs coming up with all these crazy conspiracy scenarios about why people didn't like TPM and are trashing AOTC. It just sounds like denial... everytime. If you like something, you don't give a shit if everyone else likes it. When you think other people might be right, THAT'S when you start justifying everything.
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...in J&SBSB!!! Yeesh, as I read the endlessly pole-smoking inanities barfed up here, all I can wonder is: WTF WOULD MAKE YOU HAPPY?!?!? "Star Wars was the greatest movie ever!!!" is heard from the SAME people who post, "TPM was crap!!! Lucas should been a**-f*cked by a wampa!!! He sucks!!!", which seems to overlook the fact that GEORGE LUCAS CREATED BOTH MOVIES!!! How does a talentless hack create something you love and worship, only to be written off because TPM was uneven. Yeah, TPM wasn't as great as we hoped, but when it had it's game working, it WORKED, Baybeeeee!!!! ------ Even great directors make mistakes: Kubrick (overrated IMO) with Eyes Wide Shut, Spielberg with Hook and A.I., even Cameron with the lousy dialouge in Titanic and the aliens in The Abyss; even the best have their bad days. What if TTT is a steaming pile of Gollum dung? What then? You guys have already sent your asses off to PJ via FedEx with a note reading, "Please cornhole us so that we may be one with you, my Master.", so what are you gonna do if FOTR was the top of a long slide down? ------ I think the trailer is OK, but it's so frantic, it's nearly impossible to take it all in w/o QuickTime and a frame by frame review. When the ships swoop in at 1:37 in the trailer, you can only spot Mace Windu and that Conehead Jedi thru a freeze-frame. Did anyone notice the creature that claws Natalie, shredding her sleeve and midriff and scratching her back? Did you see the female Jedi at the end? -------- When you view ALL THREE TRAILERS (not counting "Breathing") as a whole, you get a lot of sides to the story, BUT not the whole story. The plot against Amidala, the power and immature arrogance of Anikin, Palpatine's slick manipulation of EVERYONE, the budding romance against an epic backdrop is shown, but if you've read the spy reports, there's no hint of **** SPOILERS **** the fate of Anikin's mother, his slaughter of the Tuskin camp, WHO Christopher Lee is, who the aliens on Genosis are, etc. **** END SPOILERS **** --------- You babies would've complained about ANYTHING that got put up because that's all you're interested in: Sh*tting on Lucas as if that makes you a better person. If he'd blown the entire story in the trailers, you'd complain that he didn't leave any mystery; he puts a bunch of action in and y'all fill a diaper and howl that there's no story when you'd been complaining three months ago that "Lucas is making a stupid teeny-bopper love story; where's the Jedi? Where's the action?!?" WHICH IS IT YOU SPOILED BRATS?!? -------- I don't understand how you losers feel that you're so much smarter when you've created NOTHING (fan fiction like "Queen Amidala Strokes My Wookie and Let's Me Touch Her Wampa" does NOT count!!!) but feel qualified to crap on Lucas based on a few minutes of out-of-context film clips, unilaterally declaring the effects as "fake looking" (as mentioned before - How is a battle between guys with laser swords, robots, clones and aliens on a fictional, desert planet supposed to look?!?!? Got some video of the real thing?) and stating with 100% certainty that The Two Towers will rock your pooper and have superior effects and story without having seen A SINGLE FRAME OF FILM OF IT!!! The 5-minute preview hasn't been released yet, but you morons are already declaring what you HAVEN'T SEEN to be superior to what you HAVE SEEN!!! Absolute madness!
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Keep this on the down low . . . I loved Lord of the Rings, and I'm looking forward to Episode II. I know its unbelievable, but it's true!
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BTW... I've 'bashed' the new trilogy twice so far in this TB. I call it having an honest opinion but... whatever. I just wanted to say that I'D LOVE IT if I was proved wrong. I'd GLADLY eat a plate of crow with a nice pile of warm elephant dung on the side of AOTC rocks my world and makes me believe again. After seeing that trailer, I'm 99.9% sure that the film is gonna suck. Also, the CGI in TPM DID look a lot better, even in the trailer, and YES, even in Quicktime on my computer screen months before the actual movie came out.
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Yo, have ANY of you been watching the Episode II making-of mini-documentaries? A lot of what you're accusing to be CGI is actual models. I think what you all are perceiving as fake is basically your minds being unable to realize such a different world than we're used to.
For starters: 1) This is the first major studio released film not shot on film. The trailer you're watching was not touched by film once. The video is as pure as it can be with our current technology. However, many people find themselves addicted to the look of film. It will take some getting used to, but in the long run, I'm sure we'll all look back on film like VHS, "How were we EVER satisfied with that quality?"
2) If you can name ONE movie with effects more artistic and fully realized, please let me know. Because I have yet to see ANYTHING with as much complexity and seemless integration as the stuff in this trailer. Don't get me wrong, I love LOTR, but there were many effects shots in that film with simply too much thrown into the shot CGI-wise that it was painful to watch in terms of complexity (like the first battle scene in the flashbacks). The few seconds of battle footage we see in this AooC trailer is so much better composed that, while there's a lot going on in the frame, our eyes can easily move through it, without an information overload.
Anyway, that's my opinion. Go ahead and flame me now. -
"unilaterally declaring the effects as "fake looking" (as mentioned before - How is a battle between guys with laser swords, robots, clones and aliens on a fictional, desert planet supposed to look?!?!? Got some video of the real thing?)" So by your logic, nobody should ever complain about ANY FX in any scifi or fantasy film? (hey, nobody has video of the "real" version of any of the FX shots in Mummy 2)
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...that the detractors far out number the SW fanboys. Yup, this movie will most likely be less then stellar. Worse then TPM, maybe not, but AOTC will again be a strike against Lucas.
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I did mean to say that's what you said. But many of the people that complain about the SW movies, do so because the movie wern't made the way they wanted them to be made. TO me the dialog has always been flat, the acting never the best. But that did not stop me from enjoying the movies for what they were. And yes, I spent money on TPM DVD. And as a side note, I didn't see LOTR, simple because I didn't care for Tolken's story.
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Ruck is a new word I invented. It can mean either "rock" or "suck". That way, everybody's happy. I'm like the Bill Clinton of the internet.
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Wouldn't it be HILARIOUS, if 25 + years later, the new Battlestar Galactica film has more passion and soul AND a better script than Lucas/McCallum's prequels?
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Mar 11, 2002 2:23:48 PM CST
I'll be at the Mann Chinese Theater on opening day holding a
by electrodyne
Simply look for the fella dressed in classic Rodian gear, with a sign taped to my back that says "I never fired first"
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Mar 11, 2002 2:25:44 PM CST
Suicidal_Sith: if you are referring to my comment about use of s
by bigw
and I'm assuming that you are, since I didn't read anyone else writing about that, then perhaps you should re-read my post. If you're still upset, get yourself a dictionary and look up the difference between the words "some" and "all". Also note that I specifically said "some (and definately not all)" in an espicially strong effort not to confuse my intentions. And dude, you can combine sets with expansive CGI surroundings.
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Mar 11, 2002 2:26:57 PM CST
Lucas discarded the N'Sync cameos, digitally replacing them
by electrodyne
This was done on Doug Chiang's recommendation, as an attempt to "try and connect with the now generation of today".
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First up, let me make it perfectly clear, I am not a partisan in the Star Wars VS LOTR controversy. I am a huge fan of both. I was EXTREMELY excited to see the new trailer, and maybe that was the problem, maybe my expectations were to high. The special effects and battle sequences look amazing, but the dialog and story elements were just so-so. And that is my main problem. I really liked TPM, but the criticism's of it were valid. The special effects and battle scenes were great, the dialog and story was so-so. Well now I am terrified AOTC is going to be the same. I saw the same strengths and weeknesses in the trailer.
Now why did I bring up the LOTR? Because I remember watching the trailer for that and I got chills. And every time I rewatched it I got chills. When I watch the AOTC trailer, I get a mixed reaction. Excitement for the eye candy, and trepidation over the story and dialog. I hope it is better than I am fearing it will be. -
Mar 11, 2002 2:35:50 PM CST
you people are all sick- the trailer was good, so were th fx, so
by the professor
they looked friggin fine to me.i seriously dont know wat the hell you negative people are looking at,wrong trailer maybe? oh, and everybody here knows that these negative talkbackers, these retards, will be the first ones in friggin line on may 16 ,playing with their episode 2 toy lightsabers and choreographing play lightsaber duels. you people know who im talking about,yes it will be them-so laugh at them.
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Mark my words.
I see REAL Star Wars here. Not only that I see a roman epic, a western a tech noir and a love story. How many movies (not made by Akira Kurosawa) can claim to have all of these elements?
I even hear some decent John Williams, and someone has been whipping Doug Chiang.
Trust me people... this is the next level.
Oh and the Clone troopers actually look good too which is a pleasant surprise for me. -
I have seen the trailers, and am generally interested in seeing the latest installment. I have always enjoyed the Star Wars films, but was slightly disappointed with Phantom Menace, felt like a two-hour set up for the next film.
Nonetheless, I have a question regarding the development of the Anakin Skywalker character. Thus far, in the trailers, which may or may not portray the character accurately, Anakin has been more petulant then malevolent. Is this not to be Darth Vader? Why is it then that his angst reminds me of most of the high school students I have taught then one truly sliding into evil's grip? He whines like Luke in the first movie, maybe that is the connection. Why, though make him somewhat cranky in a spoiled-rotten sort of way and not truly inching toward a palpable sense of the dark side. Hopefully the movie will flesh this out, as that would make the greatest amount of sense.
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I never would have imagined that one day I would have waited more for Resident Evil than that for Star Wars.
But I do.
OK, RE trailer has Milla, but this is not the only reason (after all, SW has Nathalie): it has Milla who seems to say in every frame: "Hey, guys, the s**t hit the fan HOURS AGO, get a clue!", in an "Aliens"-like fashon lost on my screens since... well, Aliens. SW instead has people all over playing lines like if, say, they are in front of a blue screen, and...
But then, talking about Milla and Nathalie makes you to think about Luc Besson, and thinking about Besson makes you to think about the best Nathalie (Mathilda in "The Professional") and the best scene of a character falling in the middle of... let say of the traffic of an huge vertical city (Leeloo in "The Fifth Element") and you suddently ask yourself... if maybe the battle scenes of "The Messenger" weren't cooler than the Clone Wars... I mean, Milla with her standard, and her serotonine crisis right in the middle of it, and the chorus when the camera enters in the flaming fortress... And suddently I realized that a Milla and a Nathalie and a Jean Reno are not enough by themselves, that you need someone able to breath life in them, and to write for them characters able to express idea and emotions, and to be nasty and uncompromising while directing them towards their full potentiality... which is, I'm starting to belive one point that the Jedi in EP. 2 will miss...
Oh, well, Il' be in line when the movie opens... but I'll be there for RE too... and, please Luc, don't forget about that idea of Mathilda growing up and becoming a Professional again! -
Hey, BinderMinder, I posed this question to your fellow Star Wars hater Glaswegian and he never responded, so I'm gonna ask you (and Rupert and All That Matters can join in, too): If you're so bored with Star Wars news, so tired of it all, so underwhelmed, so irritated, so whatever...why do you keep coming to these posts? Not once, but often? I, for one, am not a fan of LOTR; hated the first one, not excited about the next one (though I will give it its day in court before parsing out opinons), and not getting into the hype. Notice I've never gone on any of the talkbacks for LOTR that have arisen of late. Why? Got better things to do. I need to fill my day with only things that interests me. Yet, you, hater/envious of all things Star Wars seem to troll (no pun intended) these talkbacks and news posts like you can't get enough. What gives? Please, I'm begging you: Tell me what compels someone who's so fed up with Star Wars to keep coming back. Wouldn't it be better to just say, "Well, not interested. I'll do other things." Do you not have other things to do? Please, tell everyone on this talk back what pulls you back here. We're all eagerly awaiting your answer.
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Mar 11, 2002 2:52:06 PM CST
RENATA: http://www.petitiononline.com/dgkomxpq/petition.html
by minastirith
RENATA Wrote: "Tell me what compels someone who's so fed up with Star Wars to keep coming back." This is simple, to piss off you SW Fanboys. It's fun to do it cause the you idiots post messages like what you just wrote RENATA
http://www.petitiononline.com/dgkomxpq/petition.html -
Mar 11, 2002 2:52:25 PM CST
Hey ALL_THAT_MATTERS, Re: TPM and AOTC have contadicting storyli
by matrix_sux
To start off, Chancellor Vallorum was setup to fail by Senator Palpatine, that was one step to his rise to power, you didn't think he got to the point of being Emperor by accident did you? Since both he and Amidala had representation for Naboo, he used her by playing Devils advocate and got someone else to do the dirty work for him by having her push for the Vote of no confidence. This time around there was no one to pull the same this time around if they wanted to kick out Palpy. During the 10 years of him being Supreme Chancellor, he showed strong leadership skills, who knows? As far as the clones go, maybe they have a different force imprint that a born and bred human. Were dealing with too many what ifs for a movie that has not come out yet. As far as your other arguments (your 3 points) Palpatine/Sidious is making this like an natural progression of events, getting folks on his side through his deceptive acts. Those who were deceived feel that it is in their best interests to follow Palpatines lead, hence the beauty of his plan. If he spontaneously created a Clone army, that would raise to many red flags
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Mar 11, 2002 2:53:54 PM CST
What makes the Death Star stuff in ANH or the Asteroid sequence
by bunger
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Mar 11, 2002 3:01:44 PM CST
So... do you want fake CGI? What about the "grand" opening battl
by burp fartman
Man, that was one of the *WORST* CGI I've ever seen. Just look at the scene, where the orcs run into the elf army. The poor 3D objects "flow" into each other. Even the Warcraft 3 game intros are far better.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:03:13 PM CST
Message to every fool who tries to pull the wool over people'
by shaggins
Wakey wakey! This movie is not aimed at you. The purpose of this movie is to reinforce the hookage that took place in 1999 - namely to bring along those billions of youngsters who actually LOVED Jar Jar Binks. Trust me there is NO 6- 14 year old on earth who is NOT going to have a fit when they see this trailer. If I were you idiots I'd start investing some money in certain toy companies. You can all forget about all those weak attempts to capture the imagination of the public recently. No amount of MTV or Discovery channel promotions can make LOTR look as good as this does to a 10 year old.
Infact I wish I was that age right now. I am sure that I would be in heaven after downloading this trailer. Just imagine what it must be like for them!
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You are absolutely right.
Tolkien was a genius.
As was H.G. Wells, Jules Verne, etc., - there wouldn't be a Star Wars
without them.
But....
that doesn't mean that FOTR or the Time Machine are automatically better
MOVIES than Star Wars.
Better books? Definitely. Better movies? Nope.
Like I said, if Gollum isn't a 100% convincing digital creation in The Two
Towers - then the movie will utterly fail for the average moviegoer. We
have to CARE about this tragic creature and BELIEVE in his interaction with
the Frodo and Sam to get involved with the story - not just be impressed how
"cool" his eyes look. And, since a 100% digitally-created creature has
NEVER worked onscreen to this extent - there is a LOT to worry about. This
isn't a liquid metal T-1000 or rain-soaked T-tex, it's a flesh and blood
character with a LOT of dimension and pathos. The closest we've seen on
screen is probably Watto from Ep1, but his screen time is a LOT less than
Gollum's in TTT.
I wish Peter Jackson all the best and hope he pulls it off. He is a
wonderful filmmaker and his passion for the material is very engaging.
But, does that automatically mean that he's a better filmmaker than George
Lucas? Nope.
Time will tell on that one. We'll see in December if Jackson can make us
care as much for a talking tree as Lucas made us care for a muppet in The
Empire Strikes Back. It's fashionable to bash Lucas nowadays and the
hardcore LOTR people want to make this a competition and think they win the
argument if they just say the name "Jar Jar," as if Peter Jackson CREATED
Gandalf, Frodo and the rest of the crew. Much fairer to compare the body of
work, don't you think? And, not in the heat of the moment.
Is the opening battle in LOTR as effective as the opening shot in Star Wars
where the star destroyer keeps going on and on? That one shot changed movie
history.
Is Christopher Lee's wizard in LOTR really better than Ian McDirmid's
emperor in ROTJ? Is the Gandalf vs. Saruman breakdancing battle really
better than Darth Vader vs. Luke Skywalker in ESB or even ROTJ?
I could go on and on, but that would look like I was a SW junkie defending
his turf and I certainly am not that. I can see the weakness in Lucas'
work, too. I mean, I wish the cast of The Feebles would come in and kill
every fucking bad puppet in ROTJ, but I wouldn't trade Jabba - (one of the
greatest creature effects ever) - for the world. The "Greedo shoots first"
thing is one of the worst ideas ever and I'm not immune to wanting to kick
Ahmet Best in the face. And, I could go on and on about not liking the
whole CG thing....
But, it seems like the LOTR folks can't do the same: they think everything
in LOTR is brilliant and everything in SW sucks. Jackson: perfect. Lucas:
asshole. Well, again, FOTR could not have been made without George Lucas
pushing the CG envelope and paving the way for filmmakers like Peter
Jackson. Just like Star Wars couldn't have been written without the
influence of Tolkien, Wells, etc.
So, lighten up, AICN Talkbackers - we're lucky to have both of these
visionary filmmakers. -
I thought a couple of scenes reminded me of "Abes Oddessy" (on both PS and Xbox)....I am no where near a die hard Star Wars fan...just a regular guy...and I think it looks interesting....if I never heard of Star Wars..this movie would *still* pique my interest...so just chill..my 2 cents worth.
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"If you're so bored with Star Wars news, so tired of it all, so underwhelmed, so irritated, so whatever...why do you keep coming to these posts" Um...because I'm not a "star wars hater". (you seem to make a lot of wrong assumptions about me) I love star wars. I love Empire. I like Jedi to a lesser degree. I just didn't like Menace. Hopefully Clones will be an improvement, it's hard to tell from the trailers so far.
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that`s a not THAT good ai style website.....maybe i`m the only one who didn`t know anything about that URL!!!???
especially the last quarter....when amidala started to ran on this assembly line or however you want to name it...i had to cry out loud when i saw that the first time....GREAT. but who knows how the movie will be...who knows. NOW i`m happy though and am anticipating aotc as hell..and that`s cool isn`t it -
Mar 11, 2002 3:06:45 PM CST
Until you motherfuckers acknowledge the shit that is the ACTING
by bunger
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Mar 11, 2002 3:11:34 PM CST
THIS JUST IN: It has been established that preachers of the "Yo
by rulingring
so-pathetically-self-explanatory-except-to-those-lackwits-who-think-they-are-the-first-to-make-mention message of all time.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:13:26 PM CST
Lucas has stolen "the Fifth element" flying car chase for the pu
by the french man
I'm a great star wars fan and the trailer is really spectacular. But the chase in coruscant is the same as " the fifth element" starring Bruce Willis. Three shots are exactly the same: the ship/car into the circulation; the car/ship stops near camera; and anakin jumping into the circulation...
I'm quite disappointed when I saw that tonight, because Lucas is a creator and now a thief. But this is justice because Besson stole everything to Lucas and Moebuis. As we say in france :" rendons -
I agree with certain post'ers being always so critical as if they are educated or "in the know" of how special fx or films should look or be made. So your saying we need to ID talkbackers still in middle, high, & early college schooling before they post? :) Then we wouldn't have anything amusing to read each day.
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are you trying to say that because you are 26, have a "real job" & are MARRIED that you do not: suffer from a poor self image, sexual frustration, few social outlets, & lack of control over your environment. I'm sorry, I need more evidence than that. :)
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Mar 11, 2002 3:17:39 PM CST
And you better not give me any "NO NO YOU MISUNDERSTAND MY POINT
by bunger
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I think Ewan's delivery is fine. We've only seen one-liners here and there, how are we to judge? Did you see Ewan in "Moulin Rouge," "Brassed Off," "Trainspotting," "Emma," the list goes on. Did you see Hayden in "Life as a House," a performance he was getting serious Oscar consideration for? I just can't believe that these fine actors suddenly go all lousy for "Star Wars." No way. I loved how Ewan said his what, three lines, in "The Phantom Menace" -- "Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future." Just fine. And again, watch the "Mystery" trailer if you want to see Ewan all nervous about the flying. But look at them. They don't even wear seat belts in that thing. I have to think that maybe, just maybe, they don't feel the speed as much as we would say, in our cars. I think we need to wait. Is the entire movie going to be one-liners? Um, no.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:20:53 PM CST
ROBOTECH : The Motion Picture on Sci-Fi Network Satuday @ 2:35 p
by travisbickleny
Robotech: The Motion Picture (2003) Dir:Rolland Emmerich. Starring Ben Affleck, John Travolta, Dirk Benedict, Joseph Lampone Jr., Rachel Leigh Cook, Omar Epps, Jerone Krabbe, Pam Grier, Christopher Walken, Guy Donovan, Elizabeth Berkley, Charro, and Jonathan Gebheart as Commander Barry Ackbar. The Zentradi forces form an alliance with the Psychlos of BATTLEFIELD EARTH, to wage war against the the Cylons of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, using the Earth as their battlefield. When the Earth forces retaliate, it's up to Rick Hunter (Ex-Porn Star Joe Lampone) and Wild Bill Jackson (Unbilled Adrian Zmed), to use their newfound Kung Fu Powers to vanquish the aliens. This is the UNCUT version where Commander Ackbar castrates Travolta's Psychlo with a chainsaw. Special Effects by ILM. 96 min. *1/2
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Mar 11, 2002 3:21:37 PM CST
Well, since I must now void my bowels, and since no one dares co
by bunger
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Look, really, this silly crap has to end. I like Star Wars. I like Lord of the Rings. I hope to like Resident Evil, Spider-Man, Episode II, and Two Towers. Is something wrong with that? Why on earth would I wish financial ruin on either franchise? Yes, sure, I was disappointed with Phantom Menace. That doesn't mean I want Star Wars to die! But everytime I read petty drivel like "LOTR sux" or "I hope they get shut out of the Oscars..." What the hell is that about? Yes, because I am a bitchy, pissy little fanboy I hope the hard work of a lot of people gets neglected at the Oscars. You crack me up. I'm there for Ep II. I'll also be there for a lot more movies to come. Oh, and the trailer? My ONLY complaint with it was Anakin's terrible delivery. "I'm sorry master, I forgot you hate flying" "I'm the leader of security milady" Those were bad. The rest kicked ass. Bring it on! And quit bashing! FUCKFUCKFUCK I'm sick of it!
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Mar 11, 2002 3:24:15 PM CST
Alright Alright, without further ado and also without any proof
by rulingring
FIRST!
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Mar 11, 2002 3:26:41 PM CST
thank you RR, yer a peach! [exits stage left... the sound of g
by bunger
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Okay, ANYONE who complains about the effects in the AOTC trailer and doesn't complain about the effects in the SPIDEY trailer and the LOTR film is seriouisly deluded. The effects in this trailer are far superior to the Spider-Man effects and those truly horrible LOTR effects. As for me, as long as the effects are passable, I'm ok with it. But if the argument is strictly over special effects, than Star Wars destroys Spider Man and LOTR.
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Let's go back in time. The year: 1977. The place: You're local theater. I was 8 years old, I had 10 bucks in my pocket and I was headed to the theater, to see something called Star Wars. Why? Title sounded cool. I bought my ticket, I got my popcorn and soda and found a nice seat. Less then 5 seconds into the opening score, and barely through the first paragraph of the prologue, I've dropped my popcorn and soda and I'm glued to the edge of my seat for the next hour and a half. When the movie was done did I care the dialogue was flat? No. Did care Mark Hamil could act his way out of a paper bag? No. Did I care that the lightsaber duel between Vader and Obi-Wan was sub-par at best? No. Why? Because I spent the last hour and a half being entertain. Pure and simple. Has anthing changed since the first movie till now? No. Do I care? No. I'm going to be entertain, simply as that because I'm being allowed to come along for the ride into someone elses universe.
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is that those of us who criticize these new movies gain some kind of sick satisfaction from doing so. Like we're just saying this shit to rain on everyone's parade, or to advance a pro-LOTR agenda, or because we harbor some irrational hatred for Star Wars. On the contrary, I think most of us are pained to voice these complaints. We love Star Wars and want desperately to have the magic of the originals recaptured, but simply can't fool ourselves into believing these new movies are any good. I saw Episode I three times in the theater, trying to force myself to like it, but simply couldn't. AOTC looks like more of the same. It hurts to say it, but it has to be said.
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Glad to assist
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Frenchman, Moebius and J.C. Mezieres WORKED on the Fifth Element as visualists. Actually the finished movie showed only a portion of their work, which is collected in "L'Historie du Cinquieme Element", the book by Besson which chronicles the "making of" the movie.
In the introduction Besson notes how Moebius and Mezieres often worked for the movies "not always being informed about their involvement" ^__- -
Was Kevin Costner giving Hayden Christensen dialect lessons ? Fuck all, it appears Hayden's banal delivery will actually rival that of Portman's anyway.
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Was Kevin Costner giving Hayden Christensen dialect lessons ? Fuck all, it appears Hayden's banal delivery will actually rival that of Portman's anyway.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:43:27 PM CST
Just stop painting LOTR fans (and/or SW fans) with one brush, pl
by pallando blue
Seriously, hardly any LOTR fans hate Star Wars, so don't multiply their numbers with hyperbolic sweeping statements. Me, big fat LOTR:FOTR fan. Them's the TBs I primarily post. And the handles I recognize there, that I converse with frequently, NEVER rag on SW, and frankly we all look forward to Eps II and III, best I can tell. And we can't stand the LOTR-only/anti-SW-raving pricks either. We very much wish they'd go away. We all have our individual lists of faults with FOTR, which can be wildly divergent. It ain't the Perfect Film, even the most diehard of us will attest to that, and we're pretty fucking diehard. Et cetera, et cetera. Sorry if this is more redundant than "Jesus saves" for whoever that guy was, but lick my stick. I *AM* a huge SW fan too, from long before PJ made Bad Taste, and most likely long before you were born, short stuff. Everyone who's been bringing up LOTR in this board, in positive OR negative comparison, is what I meant when I was talking FRANCHIST down there. Especially you fragile souls who aren't content ragging on AOTC or LOTR, but need to go after an entire fanbase presumably to validate your own emotional over-investment in the franchise of your choice. Drop it. We're here, talk Star Wars. Next LOTR TB, talk LOTR. *** Christ, something inside tells me we'd be much healthier people if there were Gosford Park versus In The Bedroom controversies. "You call THAT shit inner conflict?! You fucking GP fans are ALL fucking Altman's TOOLS! Oh I know, it's satire, bluh bluh bluh, SUCK IT! ITB RULZ BITCH!" (For the record, I thought Gosford Park was genius and haven't seen In The Bedroom yet. So save THOSE flames.)
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You know it's true.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:45:42 PM CST
ALLTHATMATTERS and others - Star Wars was indeed supposed to be
by electrodyne
George got REALLY depressed after his divorce with Marcia, who along with Gary Kurtz, contributed signifigantly to the first two films. This happened in between ESB and ROTJ. George wanted to tie up everything with ROTJ, and be done with it all - no more Star Wars for awhile. Gary didn't like this new direction that George was going to take (aka copping out on his original vision) and had other prospects available to him, so he jumped ship to work on Dark Crystal. And that was that. This interview with Kurtz at FilmThreat .com reveals a whole lot of things that could have been with Star Wars. Thanks for being a control freak, George. Check out the story for yourself. You'll be amazed:
http://www.filmthreat.com/Interviews.asp?File=InterviewsOne.inc&Id=8
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Who else thought Hayden/anakin sounded like a retard everytime he said "M'lady" to Amidala. I am a true fan of Star Wars and I never bashed TPM. I wasn't completley pleased with it. But please God don't tell me GL picked a pretty boy who can't act to play the man who becomes DARTH F@CKING VADER!?! I think GL may have been smoking the same crack when he was casting Anakin as he was when he came up with Gungans and Ewoks. Get him in the Vader suit as quick as possible and let James Earl Jones deliver the lines. Because from what I have seen the kid can't act.
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HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Jimmy Smitts is the MAN!!!!!
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Hey maybe one of you computer experts can help me. I re-loaded office XP about a week ago and now all my fonts are screwed up in my browser. I also can't get Times New Roman to work in Word. An example is that all the comments people write are in huge blocky letters. Anybody have any suggestions? I already re-installed XP again, so thats out. I have a P3, 750, win millenium. Oh, by the way even if you don't like AOTC you can still look forward to the awesome trailers on the DVD. Even the Menace haters have to admit the trailers ruled. Later.
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Mar 11, 2002 3:50:22 PM CST
FIFTH ELEMENT STOLE BACK TO THE FUTURE II (1989) FLYING CAR SCEN
by shaggins
You people must remember that it is very easy to write something silly. Therefore you should write things that make sense and I won't regard you as simple.
BTW Lucas wrote this story over 25 years ago! There were even concept paintings made by Doug McQuarrie that clearly show huge futuristic architecture and flying vehicles. So I think its fair to say to tell all the discruntled frenchies here to go find some snails to cook. I wonder if snail eating is a trait left over from european predatory behavior a few millenia ago.
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All I have to say is, I saw the trailer last night and I saw the essence of why I loved SW as a child. It transported me to a world of myth and scifi- where the battles are grand, the characters numerous and the action was non-stop.
Well, last night I became a kid again. Pretty bitchin' when you have a world that makes you depressed, work that runs you ragged and news footage of terror in the world. I am all for that creative nugget that inspires me to stick with it and continue to dream myself.
So screw off if you didn't like it. Go home and watch friends reruns so i'll have the theater to myself- and the fans that believe in dreaming... -
I find it quite amusing reading the incessant ramblings of a 12 year old desperately trying to..ahem.."argue" the finer points of acting!
Never mind dear boy,when Willow,i mean FOTR is released on dvd, you will be able to re-watch Vigo's and Sean Bean's multi-faceted performances 'til your heart's content.Enjoy! -
Obviously YODA(ie:Yoga) was meant by George Lucas to be a derogatory Asian stereotype of the waddling Confusian elder model. With his dwarf-like hunched demeanor, greenish skin, trite pigeon english fortune cookisms and pointy Asiatic ears he resembles the worst examples of the 19th century Western "Oriental" caricature. YODA was of course conceived in a less ethnically sensitive time(mid to late 70s) so his overall racist factor should be considered within this context, nevertheless it is quite shocking and damaging to the Asian community of today. --------- I would place YODA slightly behind JARJAR in terms of practical racism, while YODA would beat both JARJAR and WATTO in terms of specific racist content and character. (WATTO being a close second with his multitude of offensive ethnic references, eg: Semitic/Sicilian/Gaulic/Gaelic/FrenchCanadian/Samoan.
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I'm a little concerned about some of the effect shots. Most of the battle stuff and the city shots looked cartoony. Still, most trailers are done before final production is completed so they may be made more photo realistics before the final release.
The good news is the trailers have been mostly Jar Jar free. -
Mar 11, 2002 4:08:21 PM CST
HeAvY MeTaL the Animated Movie had the Taxi Cab in Futuristic Ci
by darthpsychotic
just wanted to see where my talkback post ended up.
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Isn't it kind of cool how the two most CG and FX-heavy movies of this upcoming year, Two Towers and Attack of the Clones, both take place in the PAST? (Well, both whole series, for that matter.)
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Mar 11, 2002 4:09:13 PM CST
Come on! Tell the truth. The real truth now. LOTR is NOTHING.
by shaggins
I'm sorry but it's true. I don't want to hurt peoples' feelings - much, but come on now. Why to try to associate the crap with something as great as Star Wars?
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I hate to say it. I hate to say it.
Look at Sam Jackson. Stiff, sheen, a robot. Reading cue cards on a porno movie in the valley.
Listen to Obi-Wan and Anakin. It's below children TV. It's below fat jokes. "I hate it when he does that". Is that funny?
And Palpatine? He sits there in that Lucas set, completely still, mumbles his words slowly, everyone around him stands and watches as Madame Tussaud creations, in theri goofy costumes and all backgrounds are added CGI. Jesus. It's EXACTLY the same as TPM.
Why won't people see it? Do I want this one to work? Oh yes. Does it look like it works? Noooo.
Listen to Jango?! Great actor, but even he is spoiled by Lucas' stale direction.
There are no sparks, no excitement, no danger. The outside scenes on Coruscant look like a video game, the clone trooper gathering scene looks like a Morbeus comic book, the conveyor belt with Amidala looks like a remake of Bucks Rogers by Jerry Bruckheimer.
Only Chris Lee breathes some life (miniscule) into his lines. And he's even struggling... "Join me.." yeah... we know it's a reference to ESB and ROTJ, but it seems so weird, so stilted. Like "product placement". geez, that's sad. Real sad.
And the asteroid spaceship scenes. Too much, too Moulin Rouge coloring. Tries to bury the Falcon chase from ESB, but it's just NOT believable with Obi-Wan (a bad pilot) with a GODDAMN phone operator headset and brown Jedi gown, manuevering around the rocks like he's scratching his arse! Too much already! Han Solo had emotion, Luke had on X-Wing gear and was tense. McGregor is simply at a Halloween party.
Oh man. I will see AOTC. As soon as I can.
But it's TPM on steroids just with much less Jar Jar.
Pretty obvious. Harry knows this too. You do too. The whole idea of Jedi running around by the hundreds with drawn sabers is just getting everyone giddy. Clouds the judgement.
This was our last hope.
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There is a gonna be a lot of pissed off punters on May 16th. This whole 'This ain't just a film this is the second coming of Christ' attitude is what ruined it for a lot of people back in '99. I for one NEVER believe the hype, (check out what the three middle letters of believe are to get an idea). I haven't listened to hype since Batman wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Back in '99 I was very excited to see a new Star Wars film. I admit it, I booked the day off work to see it. But I never expected that George could capture lighting again for the pure and simple reason that I was 22 years older, got bill's to pay, a job to go to, had my heart broken a few times and was a hell of a lot more cynical about life. As a result I enjoyed TPM for what it was and still is. A no-brainer pop-corn flick that told us some of the background story and fleshed out stuff that I already knew about. I didn't expect War and Peace. Part of what made A New Hope fresh and exciting was that it plunged us headfirst into a dramatic plot-device ie a full blown Galactic War. TPM didn't have that luxury. The Jedi were powerful. The Rupublic at peace. Dull, but nessercery for what is to come be all the more tragic. A story need's a beginning to make the end justified. Does this excuse TPM being not as good as it could be. Of cource not. The script was functionary at best and wooden at worst. But then frankly with the exception of Empire perhaps so were the others. To get some idea of what I mean get hold of the book of the ANH script. There are no picture's, hardly any description's to fuel one's imagination. Take this book and read the script out loud. It's a bloody awful script! If it didn't mention things like Death Stars, Star Destroyers, the force, X-wings and the like, you would say to yourself 'I wouldn't give $20million to someone to make this!". But and it's a huge but, show this piece of shit script in it's true context ie the film, to a young kid and it becomes something else. My 6yr old step-brother LOVES the Star Wars film's. He hadn't seen any of them till 6 months ago. Guess which one he saw first? That's right. TPM. He saw that, went nuts for it, asked me if he could watch the others. He has done and TPM is his favorite. Most likely for the same reason ANH is mine. It was the first one I saw. Childhood wonder is VERY important to how you attach to certain books, film's, song's and comics. Those who dismiss it do so at their peril. In My cynical old age I thought that wonder was extinct. Then when I saw TPM I heard something that renewed my faith. Darth Maul was cutting away at the edge of the chasm, Obi-wan hanging for life then in the seat three down from me I heard a young boy whisper "use the force'. Only a kid would say that. Now many of you will dismiss what I say as the words of an TPM apoligist. Thats your choice. But I will not apoligise for my wanting to just have fun on May 16th. My little brother is desperate to see AOTC. Not 'cos he wants to be proved that it will be shit but so he watch Yoda kiss ass. Have fun for pity's sake.
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Mar 11, 2002 4:12:37 PM CST
PLACE YOUR BETS NOW. BOX OFFICE TAKE NORTH AMERICA? $700 MILLION
by shaggins
What say you?
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Mar 11, 2002 4:13:54 PM CST
Why I'm a Gary Kurtz enthusiast (besides the obvious reasons
by electrodyne
I need to clarify, that I'm not, nor ever was affiliated with Kurtz, Lucasfilm, ILM, or anything of the sort. I'm one of many who was disappointed in TPM, and couldn't figure out how George greenlighted and created such a mess of a film, that was oooozing with obvious potential. About a year after TPM's release, a friend turned me on to Monte Hellman's "Two Lane Blacktop". Though it's a sort of existentialist car film, set in America (bad summary - just rent it - now), something about the look and feel of it reminded me ALOT of Star Wars, especially the Tatooine scenes. I said this aloud to my friend, and at first he thought I was nuts. As the film continued, he began to agree with me. Now, it should be noted I'm a film novice, and he's a hardcore film enthusiast - studied it in school, etc. By the film's end he totally agreed with me, that it had a similar overal feel, the cinematography, the lighting, etc. We watched the credits, and lo and behold - there was Gary Kurtz's name. I started freaking out, and had been wondering what happened to him ever since. I'm convinced Kurtz was the missing link - Kinda like, Phil Spector wouldn't have been much had it not been for Jack Nitzsche.
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Neither puppets nor CGI is going to be "real". As for all the CGI looking "fake", well, what would you have them do? Is there anyone, truthfully, honestly, who would argue that the muppets of the original Star Wars trilogy (or any other puppet-movie for that matter) are SUPERIOR to most CGI? And, I'd argue, the only reason some people on this board can criticize CGI is because we're on computers all day. (I'm sure professional puppeteers criticize other puppet movies.) But I just don't understand the criticism of CGI -- it's obviously the best of the available techniques -- I mean really, would you prefer Lucas to use puppets or stop motion animation? Ick! Yes, CGI can and will improve but without it, do you realize how horrible these movies would look?
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As far as LOTR, I didn't like books in the first place, so I had real desire to see the movie. And to be honest the preview didn't capture me. Will I ever see it, probably sometime. And I'm sure I'll probably enjoy it. But I won't compare it to SW or anything else. I judge movies in and of themselves, to compare them is to compare apples to oranges
And I do agree with you, movies are meant to be escapes. But for me I don't have to relate or get into the story, does it help, sometimes.
I guess my question then becomes, why should I change my view of what entertained me as that 8 yr old going to see SW for the first time. Why does the movie have to fit some nice neat stereotype or have to be something else. Why can't I simply enjoy the ride? The same ride I enjoyed as an 8 yr old. The script was campy, then and now. The acting was poor, then and now. The SFX were poor at times, then and now. So what has changed? Just our attitudes. Lucas is making the movies his way. Right or wrong, I'm not here to judge, I'm just here for the ride. -
Lots of general comments "the SFX suck," etc., so for a change I thought I'd be specific about my criticism of the effects. Download the trailer and follow along. 00:00:06 - Chrome objects in environments are really, really, hard to pull off. They haven't done it here. 00:00:18 - If anything on that "set" is real other than the actors, the chairs, and the table, I'll eat Bantha dung. Even the rug looks fake. 00:00:31 - Any shot with the actors during this flying sequence looks like it was done using rear projection - and that's not a compliment. 00:00:41 & 00:42: Obi-Wan and Anakin's talk - a clear example of bad compositing. Look at Obi-Wan's shoulders...see that white line running all the way around him? Notice how the line between him and the background is fuzzy? If this were real the background would be out of focus but the edge between him and the background would be sharp. Also notice the difference in the contrast levels between the background and the actors. 00:00:45 - Here we are on this fake set again. 00:50 - Obviously the actors are composited in this scene. The difference in the contrast levels is once again apparent. 00:01:06 - This sequence with Jango and Obi looks great! How much you want to bet Slave I and a good deal of the background are real. 00:01:09 - Much better, but this conversation between Jango and Obi is also on a fake background. 00:01:38 - Hurray! Obi and the Count on a real set. Looks awesome! So a lot of you are saying, "look at Star Wars, look at the matte lines around the TIE fighters!" Well, yes, it looks bad. But in 1977 that was the best looking special effects we had ever seen. It's only because you're looking at it by today's standards that it looks bad. The problem is that the shots I've listed above look bad by today's standards, and for what reason? Most of these shots are of people talking to each other? You can't build a set for that? The bottom line is, the only goal a special effect has to achieve is to support the story and allow the audience to willingly suspend their disbelief. Perhaps in the context of the film these shots will stand up. IMHO, all of the CGI-only effects look fantastic. I'm just a little disappointed that Lucas or his creative group feel the need to fake these backgrounds, when it seems that it isn't necessary. Remember when people drove cars in old movies, and you could easily tell that they were being shot against a rear-projection screen? Hollywood stopped doing that, because it became inexpensive enough to rig a car with lights, microphones and cameras, go out into the real world, and make the shot look 10x better. Now we go backwards....
Suicidal_Sith thinks it's impossible to make an epic film without CGI. Let me run a few film titles by you: Sparticus, Lawrence of Arabia, Ben Hur; hell, I'll even throw in Mary Poppins and Dr. Doolittle (the original). BTW, using variations on the word "fuck" 15 times in your post doesn't make your arguements any more effective. As for the story, well, if you're old enough to have seen Star Wars in a movie theater, your expected role during this sequel's release will be to drop your kids off at the theater to see the film. It's unfortunate, but George certainly has the right to make his film appealing to whatever demographic he wants to. Looks like we're going to get Dawson's Creek in Space. Needless to say, I won't be seeing this film on the opening day like I did Empire, Jedi, and Phantom. I've been disappointed too many times already. -
Is is possible for you to enjoy AOTC if others enjoyed LOTR? Can you enjoy AOTC without comparing it to LOTR. I think they will both stand up by themselves. Do you disagree. Or is it just more fun for you if you keep yelling, LOTR SUCKS, STAR WARS RULES. If so you are both just sad, sad little men.
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Mar 11, 2002 4:30:31 PM CST
Alert: Trailers are SUPPOSED to make the movie look good! this&#
by gernblanston67
when there is no substance, dazzle with bullshit. this trailer is cut so fast, it doesn't give you time to appreciate anything. only think i've noticed is the "big battle" looks as lame as the piece of shit final battle in TPM. who cares if there are "thousands of jedi knights" in a battle? more makes it better?
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(1) That mercury silver spaceship. That's it for the trailer.
(2) All you whining geeks. "Too much CGI", "Too much stuff going on", "Not enough lotion left to pleasure myself to my Princess Leia ROTJ action figure."
Some of you guys just kill me. Every once in a while I want to see a movie that so overloads my senses that it makes me dizzy when I walk out. This is it. Enjoy it for what it is: a popcorn movie. Now go outside, get some sunlight on your pasty loser bodies, find a job other than Software Etc. clerk, and quit cluttering this area with your profane drivel. -
That sure looked like the Solar Sail from Tron departing Coruscant.
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You don't do to a Star wars film to be moved by the acting... sweet fuck are you guys assholes or what? Jesus... you go to have a good time, see cool stuff and then talk about how cool it was... never in my life have I ever heard anyone critique the acting in a Star Wars movie before TPM... and it is because you artsie-fartsie idiots have completely missed the point. If you want to go see moving dialogue go watch french movies...; if you want to have a good time go see Star Wars.
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I agree. People will hate it for what ever reason, but I think more people will like it for what it is: a popcorn movie.
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Mar 11, 2002 4:48:15 PM CST
jesus, i havent seen this much whining since i tried molesting m
by booyah
Here's a novel idea: everyone just look at themselves, look at how pointless this bickering is. You're a bunch of assholes talking shit and making comparisons about a movie that you haven't even seen. Just about all of you have already made up your minds about the flick so why bitch at eachother? Live and let die for christ's sake. Hey, why don't you all argue this: whats better plastic or wodd?? Then after you've made all of your points, go shoot yourselves in the head. Thanks
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look here folks, i met Gary coleman on the set of webster and he seemed like a nice guy even though he threatened to punch my wife. i bought him a gin and tonic and he told me that the trailer for star track was the bomb, not the one before the scully show, but the one he starred in with all the furry nutsacks and i quote "Atari has better graphics and my dead aunt Maxine could shit out better compositing after a fat stein of metamucil and a full lunch at El Torero." and let me tell you this you can't explain away the gaussian blur on every outside structure with "the glass is dirty, or it's because of atmospheric conditions".
i'm tellin my mom.
CHIN OUT -
Okay, so this summer there are four movies which could be awesome: 'Spider Man', 'Star Wars', 'Gangs of New York', and 'Minority Report' which I'm wagering will be the best of the bunch. So my question is, are there any other big movies coming out this summer that look to be worth a damn?
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I think Wino Forever makes a GREAT point.
Lime him, I saw Episode I three times in the theaters, trying to FORCE myself to like it. Telling myself that it wasn't THAT bad. LOOKING for things to like. But the cold hard truth was - for me at least - it was a bad movie.
And while Moriarty's script review made me hopeful, this trailer, unfortunately, fills me with a sense of doom. Not because it's a BAD trailer (in many ways it's breathtaking) but becase it's SO similar to the Phantom Menace trailer. The line delivery. The use of CGI so thick it looks like Toy Story or Shrek. Of those two, it's the line delivery that has me most worried. I've seen HC act before and he didn't deliver his lines in a breathy, monotonous tone. He sounds like he just woke up. When he delivers the line, "Sorry master, I forgot you don't like flying" I have to admit that I cringe. And when Ian McDiramid (SP?) delivers the line, "I..will...not...let...this...Republic...be...split...in...ttwo." Ugh. I KNOW he can act. He did it in Jedi! I can only guess that Lucas takes these otherwise fine actors and says, "Okay, act like a robot. A bored robot." That's the only explanation. Only Ewan McGregor seems imune, bless him.
The other thing that bothers me, but not as much, is the CGI look of it all. The original trilogy has a ver tactile sense of reality that was completely lacking in Menace. The Menace look seems to have been carried over to this film as well.
That being said, I saw enough that I liked (Christopher Lee, The Clone Army, Anakin wielding two lightsabers at once, Jango Fett, the massive Jedi battle) that I'm sure I'll see the movie at least 3 times. I am, after all, George Lucas' bitch. Because of Empire alone I'll see ANY Star Wars movie at least 3 times. And I'll PRAY it's good. I hope it's good. I have a hunch it won't be as bad a The Phantom Menace, but is that really high praise?
--
Sean -
Mar 11, 2002 5:01:17 PM CST
No matter how bad the acting AOTC will still be better than LOTR
by gornpirate
Frodo?! Do you have the ring Frodo?! Frodo Are you ok?! Frodo do we all sound very gay? Yes Frodo! We do! Very, Very Gay!
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Why is it that those who feel the need to rip on Lord of the Rings does so with all of the hyped up homosexual imagery? I simply do not understand that.
Ok, we get it, you didn't like the movie. Others do. That's ok. Or is it that you feel the need to somehow tell someone what they should or should not like?
Both are good franchises, the movies are solid and worth plunking down money for, they are the products of people who wanted to present a good story. Leave it at that. Movies are entertainment, if they move too far beyond that then you have invested a bit too much of yourself in something that is simply the end product of someone else's imagination. The movies are good, relax and try to enjoy them.
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What good does it do to rip on someone else's desire to see a movie? Why is it that you cannot simply let someone enjoy a movie that they are looking forward to? Who made you the final arbiter of personal taste?
Get a grip, settle down, and try to learn to enjoy your movies and let others enjoy their movies.
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HAHAH no seriously, read these posts,it is hilarious!haahh you people are all (including me) goping off the deep end. think about this. get over it , youll probably like it anyway. LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mar 11, 2002 5:48:05 PM CST
Parker, his Lightsabres and the UK screening on GMTV - Impressiv
by uk hal
Caught the full 2 minute + preview of AOTC on the UK
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Mar 11, 2002 5:55:02 PM CST
Hey, elfkiller, why don't you go play with your jar jar stuf
by phantomshitter
Allright, I have to admit that I love BOTH SW and LOTR. However, I HATED TPM and hope that AOTC will make up for the shittiness that was found in TPM. As for elfkiller and all of his homosexual references. Well, sir, you seriously need some psyhological therapy since your posts are about as intelligent as those from a child. You know what they say, those who prance on other's fears are most likely the perpetrators!
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I saw the trailer. Wasn't impressed. Eh, at least Christopher Lee is in it. So MAYBE that'll convince me to rent this when it hits the video stores.
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It saddens me that the main point made by TBers trying to defend TPM and AOTC is that they should be viewed as "popcorn movies". Believe me, I want to LIKE (notice I didn't say LOVE) these movies just as much as anyone else (maybe AOTC will be good, obviously can't say anything for sure right now), especially having grown up with the other 3, but I still expect out of them what I expect out of any GOOD (notice I didn't say GREAT) movie in any genre - characters that feel real and that make me care about the journey they are on. The other 3 SW movies made/make me feel that way - it doesn't matter if I was watching them as a child or if I watch them now. TPM, and by the early looks of it AOTC, do not. So, if you are seriously defending these movies in their ENTIRETY (sure, I put in the TPM DVD to watch 'Duel of the Fates' as much as the next home theatre geek), please, give me something besides "I turned off my brain for 2 hours and drooled at the pretty flashing lights". I want to believe. These are supposed to be GOOD movies.
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Oh, what, and the original trilogy might have been penned by fucking Shakespeare himself, right? This is Star Wars, dammit, not the next David Mamet.What point of reference in real life do you have for what people caught up in an intergalactic war on planets light years away would talk like? Seriously? The effects arent good enough?
"Oh wait that doesnt look like the real 10000 strong clone army fighting guys with laser swords i saw the other day." This is well crafted art, anti-Lucas propaganda and pseudo-intellectual posturing aside.
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I think people do want "Star Wars" to be good films and altough there is a level of "popcorn" to them, that's only because they're enjoyable. But you're right, as far as quality, I think all fans want it to be high. That's why there was disappointment with "The Phantom Menace." The bar was set by no other movie. "Star Wars" competes against itself. It's a brilliant story and if George Lucas can handle this delicate arc with Anakin's turn to the dark side, then this prequel trilogy, what have you, will be overall good. I think what upsets me the most is that I see people judging it as trash before they even see it. And also, judging those who like what they see. I loved what the trailer promises. That's all it does. It gives us a taste of what is to come. Will it hold up? We'll have to see. But to moan about it and to bemoan it's quality without first seeing it, that's where arguments fall apart.
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I know this is rather off topic, but I'd been thinking about why a lot of folks use the word 'gay' or 'homosexual' in reference to LOTR. I bet it's this: A lot of boys (and boy, do I mean boys) can't handle deep emotionality in their genre fiction/movies/etc. I guess leaping out of windows, banging swords together, and flying spaceships through the hither/yon shouldn't have anything to do with how sad you feel because your best friend the wizard just croaked on you. A good debate concerning LOTR/SW could be in how either director deals with emotion. As we've all seen with Lucas, emotion isn't really the point. Spectacle, colors, whizzing things, exploding things, mangled dialogue, these are things we expect from Lucas. Sort of a boy's adventure, with all the things that boys care about in it, and very little of what they don't. Even the supposed two emotional highlights of ESB and ROTJ (Vader's disclosure of Luke's ancestry and Vader's spoken realization that Luke has a sister) are so epic to a degree that when we experience them, it isn't as one would experience emotional pain or anger, but as one would at a very awesome moment in a Wagner opera. All "WOW", but now "Ahhhhh... (sniff)." But LOTR (and Peter Jackson) gives us good actors doing what they do best: ACT. And I think he's created characters you can care for, that are not afraid of falling to pieces when the shit hits the fan, or feeling regrets, or hoping for the future, or blah blah blah. Star Wars characters are 2D (unless the actor overcomes that, in the case of Han Solo/Harrison Ford), while I found LOTR characters 3D. But that very 3D makes some folks who want just boy's adventures uncomfortable. After all, who wants to tell their very best friend "I love you and I'll die for you!". Your regular guy would rather put a sword through the friend and make a one-line quip after. So mayhap the 'emotion vs. sensation' crux lies at the core of this whole debate. Some folks just wanting to be boys forever and others who aren't so afraid of growing up. I'd put myself in with the latter, but, shit, I don't wanna be 'gay'. >
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I can't tell the difference between live action adventure movies and animation anymore.
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homophobic and juvenile he may be, but he is funny as fuk, and has no doubt burned many of you fucking LOTR trolls,many of whom are lame-ass uptight dorks like Morgoth who use words like "yowza" and feel the need to correct talkbackers on grammar. Elf i too see the homo erotic subtext in LOTR, and I think that threatens many of the movies fans to hear it, because they no doubt see it too. I mean just months ago they were mocking star wars and calling NSYNC "gay". keep in mind these are five straight guys adored by females the world over, being called homosexual by guys who havent touched girls in years and are fans of a movie that has an efffeminate, tearful hero, men embracing and crying, and indeed an openly gay actor in a lead role.Not that theres anything wrong with any of those things, you guys just might wanna watch how you throw the word "gay" around. I know its a little late to bring up the nsync thing, but it had to be said. AOTC KICKS ASS!!!
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Mar 11, 2002 7:00:38 PM CST
you angry kids are like flies and other confused little worthles
by gunnarcannibal
this is such a horrible pathetic little place that I can't see the point in its existence...how can you spend hours talking about how upset you are over something you claim to hate...I don't understand any of you...it is just sad and scary how much wasted hatred you have...GO OUTSIDE...Star Wars is fun that is why most balanced people go to these movies...you angry kids just scare me with your obsession
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Cheers - that was cool - however, this was what I thought when I saw the final trailer for EpI so I'll retain my judgement for then...
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Mar 11, 2002 7:09:32 PM CST
"Who's the Bigger Clone? The Clone or the Clone That Bashes
by jollydwarf
Ha! You think I'm kidding! It's times like these where I get thiiiiisss close to never visiting this site again. Someday, God willing, I will. And yes, I know someone will invariably say "Yeah, God willing, jollyloser. Your condisending atitude [double sic] is definately [sic again] old and we dont want you hear [sic] anyways!" Is this going to go on for the next two months? Or until the "Two Towers" segment at the end of "Fellowship" on the 29th? C'mon, pick one. You know that you've learned nothing from the last three years.
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I grabbed this from another message board....You people need to think before declaring that Lucas actually listened to his "fans". The Phantom Menance was the innocent movie it was ment to be. He was going in the dark direction to beginwith. No, he did not cave to the fans, nor is he raising the bar for Sci-fi...he's simply trying to tell a fable about good and evil, Is Star Wars a Popcorn movie? No, it is a little more than that-but it does have the Popcorn motif and trappings.
http://www.canoe.ca/JamStarWars/dec29_starwars.html
and here is the article pasted by me:
Sunday, December 29, 1996
More Star Wars films coming
NEW YORK (AP) -- Something old and something new are in store for Star Wars fans.
A digitally enhanced, 20th-anniversary edition of the movie that made Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader household names is scheduled to open in theatres at the end of January.
And in 1999 three new Star Wars movies will begin appearing, the New Yorker magazine reports in its Jan. 6 issue.
The three new films are "prequels" to the original trilogy -- set chronologically in the period before the original three movies. Star Wars (1977), The Empire Strikes Back (1980) and Return of the Jedi (1983) were billed as episodes four through six.
"The scripts to the three films that I'm finishing now are a lot darker ... because they are about a fall from grace," director George Lucas told the New Yorker. "The first movie is pretty innocent, but it goes downhill from there, because it's more of a tragic story. That's built into it."
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Yeah, so it was cartoonish... Yeah, so the dialog was wooden as crap... BUT... You're all forgetting something... The first three teaser trailers were GREAT, the film will be AMAZINGLY crisp and sharp, thanks to the new digital cameras, Mista comic-relief Jar-Jar Binks will be almost non-existant, Obi-Wan has more screen time, plus, he's becoming more Han-Solo-ish apparently, C-3PO is more like we remember him, there's some great new scenes at the Lars farm, and the fight scenes with Jango Fett and the Clone army will blow you away... Will the prequels ever match the depth of the original trilogy? Nah... but the original trilogy wasn't perfect either... Recall how booooring and drawn-out some of the Jabba scene's were in Jedi? Remember the STUPID dance scene in Jedi? How about the lame monster Luke had to fight in the pit?... AOTC, like any movie, will have it's strengths and it's weaknesses, but on a whole, it should be a wild ride, certainly much better than Jar-Jar-heavy TPM. Do I hope that the dialog is sharp, and the effects look real (without looking too cgi and cartoony)? Sure... but if they aren't, I doubt it will spoil my experience all that much. Just don't have your expectations set too high, and I guarantee you'll enjoy yourselves.
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"Oh, that 3rd bolt on the left seam of the spaceship looks too CGI for me, this just HAS to suck now." "Harry, you sell out! How can you promote something like this on a website that's supposed to be all about... uh, well... promoting upcoming cool movies?" "The acting in AOTC has to suck because the 10 seconds I saw in the trailer didn't impress me! Frodo bent his knees and walked across a room much more convincingly than Hayden does!" "Lucas will soon be my bitch because I have this delusional belief that I have talent and one day I'LL get to make movies even though I'm a fucking idiot who can barely log onto talkback." ******* Remember when we all used to come here to just cheer on movies, to celebrate the fact that we WERE finally getting some fun movies out of Hollywood? For the genres we love at heart? Yes, it's cool to love serious movies and you know what? It's also very cool to just kick back on a hot summer day and enjoy a good "summer popcorn" flick, though now some of you can't even stand to accept using that term even though it's STILL PERFECTLY VALID. Remember when we used to check out some movies just because they were fun? Because they were eye candy and a fun day out on a hot summer day? Oh, I'm sorry...the idea of actually having FUN, something that Harry likes to use this site to promote, is now too artsy fartsy for some of you losers. But worse, instead of just shutting up and doing your own thing...going your own artsy way...instead you have to come here and pick on Harry, pick on your fellow talkbackers, or pick on a movie that others are simply interested in seeing. Tearing DOWN has become more important to you than actually ADDING something intelligent to the debate. What a bunch of whiners some of you have become. I know some of you post JUST to stir up controversy, but the ones out there who actually believe what they're spewing seriously need to be sent to a desert island for awhile to chill and get a grip on reality. ******* Of course, the best part about all of this? 95% of the whiners here will STILL be on line to see AOTC come May. My favorite was the idiot early on who said "Well, I'm not giving MY money to Lucas! I'll pay to see something else then sneak into the AOTC theater." Great. So in other words, instead of standing by your words that you DON'T want to support this movie in any way, so you WON'T go and see it...what you're ACTUALLY saying is that you WILL go and see it, you'll just be such a schmuck you won't pay for it. But ultimately, the bottom line is that for all your whining and egotistical posturing, you WILL still be trying to get in to see it because the geek in you wants to be there. Yeah...that's what I thought. Another prime example of fucking whining that ultimately makes no point and points out what losers we have around here. Some of you seriously need to get lives and grow up. Soon!
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Light Saber kewl, kill many clones...
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Honestly. I hate talkback because it if sull of such ignorant idiots who are so reactionary about things that dont even fucking matter.
this trailer is a sneak peak of a movie that isnt even finished yet. The effects look bad because they aren't the finished effects/ they are just early lo res models dipshits.
I am amazed none of you took this into account.
Now you can blame September 11 (God knows everyone else blames that for al the problems in the world these days) all you want, but it has no effect on these movies. YOU people make them suck by your constant degrading of them.
The average talbacker really must think a Lucasfilm board meeting goes like this:
CUT SCENE FROM AOTC DVD EXTRAS:
GL (George Lucas)
RM (Rick McCallum)
GL: Gee Rick. People didnt like TPM. They thought it was oo childish and that the acting was wooden.
RM: Fuck em Georgey. What the thell do they know? Most of these retards wouldnt know a decent movie if it sucked their dick for them and didnt complain about the taste.
Hell, Russell Crowe has all the emotional complexity of a piece of lettuce, fuck he made a million bucks and wipes his ass on little girls soiled panties. I say fuck em George, fuck em in the ass, make Epsiode 3: Return of the Jar Jar.
GL: I dont know Rick. They were pretty upset when I actually showed my creative control of my own product and put in a character I dreamt up who I thought was cute and funny, but also had a kind of moral that you shouldnt knock people just because they are different.
RM: *Snorts a massive line of coke* Who gives a shit George, its not like your trying for an oscar. Shit, if you wanted one of those all you have to do is suck Bob Hopes cock fo three hours, film it and put in a classical soundtrack and call it an in depth exploration of the human soul.
GM: Well an oscar would be nice...
RM: Shit George, I know people who use oscars as butt plugs. *turns on PC* Fuck, look at this shit these trailer park trash are writing in AICN talkback. The ungrateful little swine. Hell what do we do now George? We showed them the coolest movie of all time, bar none, and they hated it. What do we DO???????
GM: Uhm, I dont know. Lets put some more Jar Jar in. The kids loved him. And maybe some Ewoks.....
Do you people honestly think Lucas is out to screw you over? He is exercising COMPLETE CREATIVE CONTROL. Not many of you are used to that nowadays with your watered down star trek and your breathtaking LOTR, even if the most exciting thing to happen in the movie is hearing Gandalf fart.
May you all burn in hell. If you dont want to see the movie, fine shut the fuck up and let people who do enjoy it without hearing you ballbags bitch because your mom never paid you any attention and your grandpa liked to take you to his shed and show you his special plaything.
There, Im done. -
I agree with just about everything you just said. I think it's pointless to argue the SW and LOTR series - I was just pointing out the obvious to the Lucas bashers. I GUARANTEE if you ask Peter Jackson himself if FOTR could have been made without GL and ILM laying the groundwork, he would have to agree that it couldn't - that's just a fact. Having said that, I think it's extremely disturbing how much once-great filmmakers are relying on CG as a crutch. James Cameron probably has the best record on this: using CG effects where you COULDN'T do it any other way and in combination with practical on-set effects. The T-1000, the water snake from Abyss, the mega-Titanic shots all were friggin' great. Now we have to suffer through CG Jabbas and ETs and these attempts only PROVE that the practicall effects were far superior. I tell you what: I wish Peter Jackson wasn't using an all-CG Gollum, because I fear it is destined to fail. I'm sure it will be clever and groundbreaking, but will it feel REAL???? It's a shame that a three-dimensional character like Gollum will be potentially undermined by trying to raise the bar and be better than Jar Jar, rather than using a combination of effects best for a particular shot or scene. Remember: an all-CG character all on its own has NEVER, EVER been convincing and this character has a TON of screentime and has to be utterly convincing or TTT will be reduced to a cartoon. I hope I'm wrong, but I think all-CG is the wrong way to go.
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What is this obsession with pitting FX houses against each other? The FX are a means to an end -- the tale being told. It's fantasy. What happened to us just being good movie fans? Even if the movie is mediocre, which it may be, isn't all this most of the fun? It's only two hours we're building to. These months of anticipation are my joy. This trailer got me going but good. I went from apathy to anticipation in three minutes last night. I'm there. Let's focus on what matters instead of boiling down the minutae.
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Strider: Are you frightened of these posters? Frodo: Yes. Strider: Not nearly frightened enough.
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I'm still not convinced this will be better than Empire or even Jedi, but I'm sure Lucas has learned a lesson from Phantom Menace and The Fellowship of the Ring. Hopefully I won't be disappointed after plopping down 20 bucks for two tickets. The trailer was great, and (hopefully) showed the good and bad parts of how the movie was done. The dialouge was cheesey, but the action was there, and what more can you expect. I'm still disappointed there was no shots of Yoda tossing the ball of lightening around, but seeing Mace Windu in an action scene, and the wide shot of all the Jedi fighting gives me hope...
Also, to aleviate some of the strain, we're mirroring the trailor over at http://www.fancypantsinc.com
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I thought 'A.I.' had some of the best CG I've seen, and the clips from 'Minority Report' look awesome. My bet is that that will be the best of this years blockbusters. Don't know what to think of a CGI E.T., but I think Spielberg knows what he's doing and amongst Lucas, Raimi, Columbus and Jackson, he's clearly the most skilled and accomplished director.
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Thank you, Minas Tirith (man, with that codename, do you ever need to get a life), for outing all the LOTR fans for what they are: petty and pathetic. "Why do you keep coming to these posts?" I asked. Your reply: "To give Star Wars fans grief." Gee, how awfully big of you. As we always suspected. It's not for intelligent discussions or even fan talk. It's just to spew shit. All the LOTR fans have absolutely no capacity to look at anything related to the contemporary Star Wars saga with any objectivity or impartiality. In other words, they have no ability to critique or judge. They are just whiny, obnoxious children. You see, as kids, we weren't expected to know anything. We just reacted to our world. As adults, it's expected that we have some critical faculties, some ability to admit we are wrong. This shows more than anything else that LOTR fans have not reached this stage of evolution. They come to these posts, and instead of offering an intelligent discourse to their opinion, they just spit. Spit their bile. Spit their hatred. Spit their stupidity. Notice on my original post, I didn't praise the trailer to the sky and have made no judgement whatsoever about the movie itself. I haven't seen it. Yet Minas Tirith, BinderMinder, Rupert, All That Matters, you four continue to proclaim your vast knowledge of this movie and denounce it. Your only reasoning: Because another group of people like it more than LOTR. What a waste your life is! I have made it no secret that I hated FOTR, but I don't begrudge anyone's enjoyment of it. In fact, when I saw the movie, I went with a group of friends who all enjoyed it, some greatly. So what? But when I voiced my complaints in the theatre lobby, a LOTR whack job came up to me and challenged me to a fight! From that day on, I have heard nothing but the rabid anger of LOTR fans who cannot accept anything better than there beloved movie. Well, you know what? Not only are there Star Wars fans who like their movie better, but there are other people who just simply don't give a shit one way or another about LOTR. They're not at home pasting the latest pictures of Elijah Wood over their beds; they're not reading "The Silmarillion" for the tenth time; they don't do impersonations of Samwise jumping into the lake at their local swimming pool. Minas Tirith, if your goal is to give anyone not in love with LOTR grief, you're gonna have a lot of work ahead of you. But then again, it doesn't seem you have any other purpose in this world, so what the hell?(PARTING SHOT: Richard Roeper was asked what on Oscar night would make him happiest: "If LOTR won zero Oscars. That would make me jump for joy." And, gee, Ebert didn't argue.)
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Just read your post. It might be the best I've read on this post. I loved the part about how TPM reached your little brother and how you won't apologize for having fun watching it. It's the best reaction I've heard in this swamp.
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Mar 11, 2002 8:25:00 PM CST
Not that anyone is going to read this far down but,I told all yo
by chewblacca
...And if you all hate STAR WARS so fucking much,why are you even reading all this shit.The Clone Wars are going to be everything STAR WARS should be.I truly believe this.Everything I have seen so far confirms this.So,if you think AOTC is going to be shit,just stay home on May 16th and stay out of the faithful's way.
Oh yeah,one more thing:Obi-Wan
shouldn't be freaking out in the asteroid field.He's a JEDI for fucks sake.They don't freak out.Ever. -
All these years I wonder why every film review, news, post, trailer that gets put on this site just gets ripped to shreds. Are HMO's that expensive or are the meds and combined lack therapy sessions just not working? :) I seriously ask WHY?! For the love of god why are so many people negative about everything?! These people spend months to years on each sequence just to entertain us and you just rip on it like your masterfully educated on how special effects sould look on DIGITAL shots from the new Sony projector! I repeat again... DIGITAL shots! Have any of you whiped out YOUR Sony digital projector lately to do some filming and then have a well renoun post-production special fx company work on it??? :)
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Any reservations I had about Spidey's CGI have been wiped away after seeing this abomination. Too bad Lucas is hogging the controller...
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Complain, complain, complain! You doubters can go suck it because I don't care what you think! Ha ha ha! Fantasy is supposed to be unrecognizable, but familiar. For example, those of you who read the LOTR know what the story is about and can imagine the characters and surroundings. And I guess you have all seen the movie. Well, there could be some things you didn't imagine that WERE in the movie. Star Wars is the same damn thing! What do you want?! Do you want dirty surroundings, or do you want clean and sophisticated ships and buildings? You don't know what you want because you only have the original trilogy to base your thoughts on. The original trilogy was because the Empire was in power and everything was in disrepair, sorta like how a dictator rules in a dictatorship. The powerful few have all the power while the many poor have to either agree with the powerful or be rebels fighting against the evil status quo. Having TPM squeaky clean, and ATOC gradually turn into a dark and dusty graveyard of Jedi makes sense. What about the Emporer? Doesn't he age over this whole franchise? He gets old, his 'Empire' gets old. That makes sense. And the topic of CGI. Well, we as movie goers have enjoyed films with CGI because it adds so much more 'fantastic' stuff to the film. What if the T-1000, Robert Patrick, didn't morph and was just a normal T800? You see! It wouldn't be cool because we know Arnie was a T800 that had model SFX and makeup. Things can be done bigger and better in CGI. I don't care if Lucas puts CGI into his SW films because it makes it more fantastic and fun, and also because it's cheaper to make a movie using CGI. Who would want to make 1000s of clone troopers for a shot that would cost a cool mil or two? They could do it with CGI for tens of thousands instead. I hope I made some sense here...and I am going to see this movie no matter what, and none of you dumbasses dissers can't do anything about it! Custer sounds like a puny shriveled prune saying stuff like 'cgi sucks' etc. ____---KNEEL---____
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Steven's doing his second straight re-make of 'Blade Runner'! P.J.'s doing his second straight re-make of Gladiator! George is rolling 'Blade Runner' and 'Gladiator' into one! Everybody Loves Ridley! (So please, no more allusions to the unspeakable horror that is 'The Fifth Element'.)
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I know this is a Star Wars TB, and im all for it but, hey, Harry, or whoever runs this site, where the fuck are the Batman Year One scoops?? Someone please get something on that soon! I'd pass up spiderman, aotc and ttt to see that shit get made right fucking now.
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I've posted here from time to time in the past, and have always tried to express some amount of positivity in my posts. I see no call for such psychotic displays of hatred and venom that seem to be the norm for some of you so called "fans" of movies. Why the continuing "rivalry" between LOTR and Star Wars? Between Lucas and Jackson? Can't we all enjoy them both? I mean, I could join in and say that for someone to even mention Peter Jackson in the same breath as George Lucas makes them look like an idiot. But that would be like giving in to the mob. That would make them feel like they have taken over this site, and that we can't just have reasonable, intelligent discussion around here. I could say that George Lucas will be remembered forever for his creative vision and contribution to motion pictures long after Peter Jackson is forgotten. But that would be "mean" (although it would be true). From now on, if we're gonna have to act like bickering siblings, let's at least be honest. So in the spirit of the childish banter that rules these boards, in closing here are a few truths:
1. The effects in AOTC will be the best in movie history to date.
2. The storyline of AOTC is as good, if not better than any other SW film.
3. LOTR:FOTR is overrated.
4. George Lucas couldn't satisfy some of you losers if he came to your house and blew you. -
Renata, I am rather new to the boards here at AICN, but I did feel the need to reply to your latest posts (especially the longer one). I am a fan of Lord of the Rings, I enjoyed the movie immensely. I could probably count myself as a solid fan, I have seen it twice, and plan to see it again after the 29th when the Two Towers footage is added.
Also, when I was eleven, I took in a strange little picture called Star Wars. My folks and I were at a local mall, saw the movie poster, thought it looked interesting and went to the show. We enjoyed it thouroughly. Personally Empire Strikes Back was my favorite of all of the Star Wars films, and Phantom Menace my least favorite. That being said, I would caution you about stating that ALL Lord of the Rings fans are trolls. I am here to read posts and add my two-cents worth when I choose to. What I cannot abide is the nonsense of the two franchise camps lobbing insults at each other. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Lord of the Rings is a wonderful film, I am looking forward to the other films. I will go see Attack of the Clones, and I sincerely hope that my one quibble will be addressed in that film from the first in the series. My quibble is this, and perhaps someone will deign to answer: Will this movie show Anakin to be more than just petulant, and actually show him to sliding toward the dark side, to show that he has not simply a teenagers angst, but some true malevolence? That is what I want to see from this new film, I want to see the foundational seeds of what will become Darth Vader.
So, by all means, let us approach these boards with a great deal more patience and desire to discuss the movies, but leave the carping and name calling to the playground. It does no one any good.
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'Batman 5'? You actually want to know about 'Batman 5'? People care about 'Batman 5'? I know you've seen 'The Godfather'. Why on earth would you want to see 'Batman 5'?
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Mar 11, 2002 8:58:41 PM CST
15 screenshots why the Clone War trailer sucked at ReelBuff.com
by reelbuff
While Harry praised the terrible Clone War trailer, like it was the second coming. Don't believe me? Go to ReelBuff.com to see why.
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you saw star wars for the first time? you didnt look at how good the fx were! shit! it didnt even come into your mind to think that. you were just amazed and wondering how this could happen and wats gonna happen next and wats the force and i want a lightsaber and stuff like THAT! shit....... settle down you dinks and remember when it was magic and you could beleive it and you were naive. remember that?
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Batman 5 will be an adaptation of the great year one story, and in effect will not be Batman 5, but instead a total restart of the series. Thank God because if they continued the way they were going... well you know. I care about Batman 5 because I am a Batman fan. How can you not love the story of a city overrun by costumed phsychotics, one of whom is the titular hero? And while i am glad you got what my user name is a reference to, how would having seen the godfather disqualify me from possibly wanting to see the next Batman?
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You think you can do any better? If George Lucas said to you, "OK, you ILM hooligans, this special effects mastermind is going to show you how it's done!" and slammed the door, what would YOU have them do? How would you make the effects better? Sure, you would make them more realistic from your point of view, but how? You gonna buy some realism software at Best Buy? This is where you worthless fanboys eat your words and wash them down with a glass of pity.
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Mar 11, 2002 9:58:43 PM CST
OK, I watched the trailer about ten times, sat down and watched
by otto parts
This trailer looks pretty promising to me. People are quite right to point out that the scripts in the originals weren't fabulous, because they clearly weren't. Having said this, someon was also right point out that the originals made phrases such as "May the Force be with you" into the common consciousness, and that certainly doesn't seem likely to happen with these prequels. But why should it? The original films were groundbreaking in so many ways, ways in which the prequels could never be precisely because the ground was already broken back in the late seventies and early eighties. I'm with the talkbackers who said stuff like the trailer gave them the "vibe" of the original trilogy - you'll never feel like you did aged 8, but you can feel an approximation of that, and the 8 year olds of today will feel it just as we did. Somebody wrote that we only complain about the effects of the OT now we have the benefit of hindsight. This is patently not true. It's like saying that in the fifties, everyone thought the creature from the Black Lagoon looked fabulously realistic; give people a little credit- a lot of people were taken aback, but a lot of people simply to suspend disbelief, because that's what a lot of movie are about: escapism. I'm saying this to point out the fact that a lot of people are going to be quite rightly stunned by some of the effects in this film, whereas the more computer-literate of us may have a few complaints. I myself felt that the scene where Obi-Wan and Mace walk down a pillared corridor as Yoda floats along next to them was the worst looking of what I saw in the trailer; the far back ground and the sort of vast hall way adjacent to the corridor looked sort of "removed" from the characters, I believe this is the scene which caused another talkbacker to vow to eat Bantha dung if anything but the characters were real- I quite agree. But I suspect some of these shots may not be the ones we will see in the final movie, they may still be touched up. I say this because at the end of the "Mystery" trailer, when Obi-Wan and Ani have their little "good job" exchange, the dialogue doesn't seem to have been mixed with any crowd dialogue, which it surely will be in the final film. Anyhoo, this film looks more fun than TPM, [although I didn't think it was THAT bad!Shoot me!] and I think kids will love it too. One last point: I noticed all sorts of stuff that I'd never really seen before whilst watching ESB- there is a short part when Vader says something like "inform the Star Destroyer that I'm coming aboard" and it is so blatantly not James Earl Jones who says that line! have a listen some time and see what you think...also, watching this movie now it seems like when Luke arrives, he feels he has been there before...maybe [EP III SPOILERS?]he was born there or was there at some point early on. Maybe Yoda goes there to be guardian of that cave which is "strong with the dark side". Anyway, there's my ten cents, take 'em or leave 'em.
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Mar 11, 2002 10:06:49 PM CST
You cannot change anyone's opinion about this trailer. They
by all-ighty ollar
I believe in freedom of speech, but badmouthing those who think is good is going too far. So Shut your asses.
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I remeber when I saw the first TPM trailer, I got a lump in my throat. It looked so good, I was absolutely hooked. Like a previous poster, I saw the movie multiple times in the theater. First time I was just overwhelmed. The times that followed, I found myself trying to make myself like it. I don't. It is just a bad movie. When I saw this trailer, I felt nothing. It is like Lucas is trying to make a weird amalgam of live action and GC anime. The dialog was shit, I miss the models. I miss what Star Wars was. Shit, even the stupid ass books by J. Scott Anderson seem better. Fuck.
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It's nothing than a 90 minute CG commmercial for action figures. Frodo Owns Joo!
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For those people who are disgruntled by the extreme lack of intelligence displayed by these bashers on these talk backs, don't let em get you down. Above all you shouldn't resort to their level. I got sucked in to an argument and became what I loath most about these forums. The best you should do is ignore them. Let these insignificant mama's boy's keep on with their whinig. Don't pay em any mind. If anything, it just proves just like those "disenfranchised"(whatever) idiots in FLorida who just went to vote just to vote, that the same mentality goes for these morons who just come on the TB to only bitch and complain just for the hell of it. Why, because they have nothing better to do with their sad lives than to OVER ANALyze a freakin commercial. Looked great to me. Can't wait for May 16th.
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...go see "Life as a House". (which he got a SAG award nomination for) Hayden Christensen is a terrific actor! He'll make a great Anakin!
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I've read most of these posts and I've read a little bit of sense, some of you have the right attitude about what the word "ENTERTAINMENT" means. Sure some of us (myself included) look at Star Wars & LOTR as almost a religeous experience, but the reason we endulge in them is because we are entertained by them. I think the primary reason for everyones bitterness is the lack of entertainment that Episode 1 offered to them. I for one was totally entertained by Episode 1. I had always enjoyed the political overtones that the idea of the prequels had to offer and enjoyed the manner in which they actually played out. I think there are two kinds of Star Wars fans: The ones that respect the fact that Lucas doesn't give a shit about what you think, and the others that think that they know better than Lucas.
How I will laugh at the latter for their ignorance. Mountains will fall, oceans will rise, and some people will still bitch about how much they hate Episode 1.
The bottom line is this.
1- Attack of the Clones looks great. There's not denying this. I look forward to it with heartfelt desire (which is something I seldom feel).
2- What will people bitch about when both Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are kicking down with some great films? My suggestion is to maybe go get laid, or get a tan. PC monitors don't often provide you with the life giving goodness of natural light.
3- For further exposure into the mind of a Star Wars junkie listen to some of my music at
http://www.electricalwinter.cjb.net
I know some of you don't want to face the windy reality, but you'll soon have to and you'll pretend to be on our side again.
Although is doesn't matter because I hate you all.
Until the end...
-AZ -
I realize everyone wants AOTC to be what they perceive it to be. But no one can change what is going on at ILM or in George Lucas' mind. He has his own vision of what HIS film will look like and nothing will change that. Some times I wish, too, he would go back and make Star Wars like the first 3. But that is not what Mr. Lucas wants. It will be what it will be. Just sit back and try to enjoy what is there. All the bitching in the world won't change it.
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The music wasen't cued properly... cheesy lines... bad effects.... Bad acting... Listen to you!!! Whining constantly. 1- Watch the original trilogy, over 60 % of Han Solo's lines were cheesy. 2-Bad acting, again look at the original trilogy, I will say two words Mark Hamill! Now the effects, just stop looking at movies like a construction, take it as a whole, unfortunatly, they can't go in space to film space fight, the technology is just not there! Now Lord of the rings! Great movie, truly a masterpiece and the best movie i've seen this year, great job by Peter Jackson. But people let's not forget one thing, Peter Jackson did not make the Lord of the ring lore. He took an already established classic and adapted it wonderfully. Now I ask? With the type of vision and imagination he has, could have George Lucas done the same? I think he could and probably would have done something good. Let's pls remember that when you look at a Star Wars movie, it's George Lucas from A to Z. Of course those fueling this pointless feud will probably read my post and comment on the spelling mistakes. Well I'm going to see Spiderman, Aotc, Resident Evil and other such movie and will look at them for what they are, work of fiction by people more qualified and talented than I am. And I will like them and will probably live a happier life than all the nay sayers. Think about this, there are probably people who died on 9/11 who would have liked to see these movies, bad or good... How pointless are the feuds now!
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that chase in coruscant is a rip off of The Fift Element? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't George Lucas create the whole Star Wars series in the 70's?
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Mar 12, 2002 1:22:11 AM CST
LOTR vs. SW/AOTC: It;'s the whole "Bio-organic vs. mechanica
by iroquois_pliskin
Saw the trailer... yep, CGI sucks... ILM lost the "magical" touch I suppose. In all honesty... CGI has ALWAYS sucked IMO, outside of full-CGI movies, CGI doesn't belong anywhere. I'd much rather see good ol' latex, plastic and wood. Why? Oh, I dunno-maybe, because... it's REAL? Honestly Lucas cant do CGI without making it ook fake. That ubber-crappy Darth Maul speeder jump in Tatooine, ooh... so, FAKE! The last 30 minutes of TPM... Gungans and Droids... yeah, look! Jamaican frogs vs. Rock em' Sock em' Robots!!! Even as hard as he tries, Lucas cant make CGI look real(Square Pictures almost did though...).
As for story and dialogue... look, if 1,000+ frames of CGI and SFX doesn't convince you that Lucas no longer has that 'film-making' touch and depends more and more on flashy on-screen shots, then... put down the pipe and start using whats left of your brain to understand. It's no longer THX-1138 or Raiders of the Lost Ark, or A New Hope... it's Plan 9 from Outer-Space with a 100 million dollar budget. I figure... Lucas lost it around the early 90's with Young Indiana Jones(and it's plot-holes and continuity errors), so he then started relying more and more on SFX and less and less on story. Dont get me wrong, Young Indy=Great TV, but... it wasn't Indiana Jones, it was history with a fedora.
Now, for the whole LOTR vs. SW thing...
I could care less about the 2, if I were like ANY of you dipsh*ts arguing over whats best... i'd be stuck getting angry and mad over some stupid debate instead of actually watching and ENJOYING the 2. God... it's like 2 year olds fighting over a cookie.
LOTR fans, may I remind you if it wasn't for Lucas, NONE of you would be watching Peter Jackson's beautiful rendition of the great series? Afterall, it was ILM and Lucas that created all those ground-breaking and innovative special effects? Without them, LOTR's would most likely look like old 50's cheese sci-fi/fantasy.
SW fans, it was because of books like Tolkien's stuff, medieval stories and old greek mythology that star wars came to be, so... dont you forget about that.
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Especially you.
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If that Trailer Didn't fix your asses I don't know what the hell will, Let me tell you somthing I LOVE STAR WARS. I LOVE GEORGE LUCAS. I LOVE THE POWER THANK YOU FOR THE GLORY.
George Lucas. a Hero. a King. a Father. a Legend.
Star Wars is Forever. -
Lord of the Sissys Go to hell.
Star Wars is Forever. -
The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy defines people who bad mouth Star Wars AOTC as:
A BUNCH OF MINDLESS JERKS WHO'LL BE FIRST AGAINST THE WALL WHEN THE REVOLUTION COMES!
Surprisingly enough a copy of ENCYCLOPEDIA GALATICA from 500 years in the future just landed in my lap after passing through a time warp. It defined people who bad mouthed Star Wars AOTC as:
A BUNCH OF MINDLESS JERKS WHO WERE THE FIRST AGAINST THE WALL WHEN THE REVOLUTION CAME!
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The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy defines people who bad mouth Star Wars AOTC as:
A BUNCH OF MINDLESS JERKS WHO'LL BE FIRST AGAINST THE WALL WHEN THE REVOLUTION COMES!
Surprisingly enough a copy of ENCYCLOPEDIA GALATICA from 500 years in the future just landed in my lap after passing through a time warp. It defined people who bad mouthed Star Wars AOTC as:
A BUNCH OF MINDLESS JERKS WHO WERE THE FIRST AGAINST THE WALL WHEN THE REVOLUTION CAME!
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Those of us talking about the overuse of CGI aren't against special effects. For all the cheeze that went on in the OT, it was still CHARACTER DRIVEN. The Phantom Menace had no worthwhile characterization to speak of. You're hitchhiking on your love for the OT. This trailer looks just as empty as TPM, a film in which the plot was driven by special effects set-pieces. A film devoted to the creation of Jar-Jar Binks, and desperately trying to tie the new film into the Original Trilogy. This new trailer gives me nothing to look forward to. It's a shame, really, that the Prequel Trilogy couldn't be it's own story. Why do we need obvious references to the previous stories? Why can't we see these characters as something new, instead of rehashes of moments from the previous films?
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the old trilogy was a joke special effects wise, the acting was campy at best, the story was drawn out and lazy. There is no change from OT to the new one. Just the viewers. Weve all grown up, our once awe inspiring child minds watched in wonderment, now our older analytical minds think we are the critics. Analytical thinking is for Trekkies. There isnt much changed in these movies.
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I really can't believe the hate and negativity that's being displayed on this board over a movie. We have SW fanboys who feel a need to insult members of their own fanbase who didn't like TPM. Then we have SW fanboys running down FOTR and it fans simply because it got the critical praise and award honors TPM didn't. Then we have LOTR fanboys attacking SW and it's fans because they're upset that SW gets more press then LOTR... Just so much hate and malevolence over some movies! Then we have people who will actually diss the OT in order to make TPM look good, saying the acting and dialog was terrible then too (When people say the dialog was bad in the OT they mean it's over-the-top and tongue-in-cheek and cheesy in a GOOD fun way. TPM's dialog was just plain bad and lifeless) Hamill is a horrible actor ETC. (IMO Hamill is a great actor, the OT would have sucked if we didn't believe in and care about Luke.) So basically just chill out people! Discuss what you like and don't like INTELLIGENTLY without childish insults. Try to learn the moral lessons from both franchise, the top of which is don't give in to hate. Personally I've given up on my long posts explaining my problems with TPM and Lucas' hypocrisy when it comes to Star Wars because people can't get that I'm not attacking Lucas or the franchise just trying to put my thoughts and feelings out there for discussion. I'm still a fan of Lucas and I love SW, I just think TPM was poorly made all around. Then if I make a fleeting mention of how I loved FOTR I get attacked as being a traitor to Star Wars or something. Something I've been the die-hardest of fans of for 25 years... Anyway. I will comment on the trailer, GOOD STUFF: A lot of it reminded me of the OT more then anything in TPM. I like what I saw of Obi-Wan,Mace and Yoda. Yoda's CGI is looking better and better. I love how he levitates on that platform. The shot of the flying R2 was really cool. Nat looks great in the white outfit. BAD STUFF: Hayden's acting really seems painfully wooden and that worries me since he's the main character I've always loved Vader and it hard for me to reconcile him being a kid with dull pretty boy looks and zero charisma. The CGI looks OK for being unfinished but why is there so much of it? Effects overkill was a big problem with TPM. I also think all the blue and green screen work causes the actors to zone out. Why can't they build some neat sets like they did for the OT? BOTTOM LINE: I'm neither getting my hopes up or making a pre-decision that the movie will be a huge disappointment like TPM. I'm just gonna wait for May to roll around, plop down my $8 and see if the Star Wars franchise has any legs left in it. Oh and I won't attack fellow sci-fi/fantasy fans who disagree with my opinion of the film no matter what the outcome. I suggest you all do the same.
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Blue devil senator guy!!! I'm going to buy his action figure, arm him with a lightsaber and have him KICK JANGO FETT'S ASS!!!
Senators rule!!! "This is a crisis!" indeed! -
Mar 12, 2002 5:23:21 AM CST
Was it just me or did Christopher Lee's lines sound a little
by euphonium
"You must join with me Gandalf, oh sorry, I mean Obi One." He he. Ahh, but I'm still going to go see it. As you all are, I'm sure. Despite your complaints. Same with TTT. As I've said before and will say to the end of time, THEY BOTH WILL ROCK!!! But keep arguing 'cos it's very entertaining.
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... I mean Obi Wan.
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So the dialogue was crap... like it's amazing in the original trilogy!
No one actually believes this movie is going to be bad they're saying that to be provocative!...hey everyone has to kill time somehow!! -
The ending sucked, and I always thought that in the original ending Leeloo ended up as a stone statue, like we see her, in the beginning. If you think to the whole movie in this light, more things make sense (like the now cheesy "crisis" of Leeloo when she discovers the dark side of humanity).
having said that, in the 5thE Besson basically put on screen in a legitemate way the French comic books ransacked by Lucas and many others while creating their "visions" of the future ("Valerian" above all the others - just read Valerian's "The Empire of One-Thousand Planets for a better treatment of "Episode One").
J.C. Mezieres once even draw a panel with Valerian and Laureline sitting in the Mos Esley's cantina along with Luke and Leia, with Leia saying "You too come here for a drink?" and Laureline answering snobbishly "Yes, since a long time". ^_____^ -
Mar 12, 2002 7:10:56 AM CST
HELP!!!! im the only FAN who cant DL the trailer! someone POST A
by omegasaga
the official site is bulshit. it takes forever and you CANT SAVE IT to the harddrive.
I STILL HAVENT SEEN THE TRAILER>
someone--anyone PLEASE SEND ME or just post A MIRROR>.>>>>HELP!!!!!!!!!
tuesday march 12 2002....help help -
Mar 12, 2002 7:15:51 AM CST
HELP!!!! im the only FAN who cant DL the trailer! someone POST A
by omegasaga
the official site is bulshit. it takes forever and you CANT SAVE IT to the harddrive.
I STILL HAVENT SEEN THE TRAILER> someone--anyone PLEASE SEND ME or just post A MIRROR>.
>>>>HELP!!!!!!!!! tuesday march 12 2002....help help
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Since this is the only TB currently talking LOTR and SW (I like them both and am not entering a worthless debate!!!).... Does anyone think that because LOTR was a hit that hollywood will try and make either the Wheel of Time or the Sword of Truth novels into a series of movies? Both are superior novels to LOTR.... Yes I know, before everyone pounces on me that they are utter ripoffs of LOTR but I still think they are overall more accessible stories for today's generation. I just never got into the whole elf language thing. And was it just me or did Tolkien imply some kind of Homo-eroticism between Sam and Frodo? I still liked the book overall and the movie was great.
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I'm still not sure about Episode 2 -- from all of the trailers the acting and dialogue looks terrible, but then looking back, the original film's weren't great either (well, maybe a little better).
However, Ep2 does look a lot more exciting than Ep1, which should be good (I wasn't a big fan of Ep1). It looks a little less serious too, but at the same time, the comedic elements look shoddy in the trailers.
I know what some people are saying about the special effects, they do look a tiny bit fake, but this is star wars! They're in space with laser swords - its fantasy, it doesn't have to look real, it just has to look beautiful or other worldly.
I think the best thing to do is just not get yourself worked up or too excited, then you won't be dissapointed, because the more you hype it up, the harder it will be to satisfy your hunger for it. -
Jesus, is there anyone here older than 12?
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Wake up, fan boys. This movie's going to suck harder than Phantom Menace, if you can believe that.
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i just cummed and didn't have to jerk it.
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I'm not a 3D animator, but I know two things that would add realism to the look of the SW universe: More dirt to the textures and less shiny surfaces. It's just common sense. Unlike many think, the problem is not in the quality of CGI, but in the artistical approach of Lucas. The CGI in this trailer is technically as good as it gets. It's just the vision that is not entirely succesful. There are some cool touches, thought. I love those big spider robots.
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You see, when you say things like, and I quote, "All the LOTR fans have absolutely no capacity to look at anything related to the contemporary Star Wars saga with any objectivity or impartiality. In other words, they have no ability to critique or judge. They are just whiny, obnoxious children" That just inflames things more. I know some LOTR fans act in a petty fashion. So do some SW fans. As a fan of both, where does that leave me? You won't find me judging anything without objectivity. Generalizations are dangerous things and will only serve to make it worse.
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First, let me say that i am a star wars fan. I was born right before it came out and one of my earliest memories is having my whole preschool class over to watch ANH on HBO. I am really looking forward to AOTC and nothing any whiner says can dampen that. That said, I really enjoyed FOTR and am looking very much forward to the next one. Did it change my life the way SW did? Of course not! I am old enough noe that I would hope my life is rich and full enough that a movie can't change it. Further, who did SW appeal to when it came out? Kids! Those of you that bitch about commercialization and merchandise and action figures, what has changed since '77. I seem to recall a fair amount of that then. I enjoyed TPM. It had its flaws that have been pointed over time and again to the point of nausea, but I think it will be viewed more favorably in the full context when the pequels are done. Further, if some of you have watched this trailer as meticuously as your "analysis" would indicate, you have WAY too much time on your hands. Finally, a little thought on talkbacks in general and these specifically. Why is anything you don't like homosexual or in some way sexually deviant? What's with all the sexual imagery? Can you not think of other bad things? Some of you obviously don't get out enough to even know what those things you mention really are. Enjoy movies for what they are,entertainment, and get over yourself!
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who is creating the clones? sounds like the separatist are making them but then looks like the republic is making them? they are cloned from jango who is working with count douku. OB1 (the great) reports this to jedi/senate/palpatine. then the clones fight with republic against the separatist (including jango) at then end.
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Big bug things: STARSHIP TROOPERS
Falling through aerial traffic: THE FIFTH ELEMENT
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Mar 12, 2002 10:49:58 AM CST
renata: why do you keep bringing up LotR? This is a SW talkbac
by minderbinder
So let's see. You make sweeping generalizations about "all Lotr fans". You characterize people you don't agree with as LotR fans, regardless of what they've said about the movie. Believe it or not, there are plenty of "lotr fans" who also love the SW movies. (did you even READ my last post?) "I don't begrudge anyone's enjoyment of FOTR" Bull. You constantly rant about how LotR fans are losers and how you hated the movie. Could you POSSIBLY be a bigger hypocrite? Seriously, you sometimes have some interesting things to say, it's a shame you completely destroy your credibility by sinking to sandbox name calling.
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Mar 12, 2002 11:03:52 AM CST
STAR WARS-EPISODE II: ATTACK OF THE CLONES ONE SHEET? NOT SO NI
by jollydwarf
Go ahead, check the alledged 'real thing' out over at theforce.net. It looks real, certainly, but it sucks. The girl in it is more like Julia Louis-Dreyfus than Natalie Portman (okay maybe Elaine with a little cosmetic tweaking, but hey, Artoo and 3PO resemble George and Kramer at a glance, to). But c'mon guys! No Palpatine or Dooku? If I liked one thing about the Episode I poster, it was the face of Maul looming in the background. The tone of this one is all fucked up. So...if you thought the trailer was bad (which I didn't, just too breakneck), then you'll LOVE this! Have a field day, kids!
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Great visuals, certainly. But I'm not seeing much substance. Ah, what the hell, I'll still be in line in May.
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Mar 12, 2002 11:17:33 AM CST
Well now. My "Lawrence of Arabia" DVD finally arrived last night
by pallando blue
Interesting timing. Haven't seen it since the restoration and theatrical reissue over ten years ago. But holy crap. I was up until 3 this morning, watching the entire 222 minutes and as many of the extras I could keep my eyes open for. So why am I bringing it up here? Because in my Great Film-addled and over-tired mind I noticed over my coffee this morning a bunch of interesting convergences. Epic battles, with thousands on screen. Desert setting. Central charcter is young, brash, arrogant. Defiant of his superiors to the point of disrespect. He develops a God complex; he wavers back and forth with (forgive me, T.E.L. and Mr. Lean) his "dark side"--"No prisoners! NO PRISONERS!!" Et cetera. Just a couple interesting things. And man I know how unfair it is to compare Lucas to Lean, or (especially) Hayden Christiansen to Peter O'Toole. But as far as influences on these prequels, I don't think "Lawrence" should be overlooked. I can't believe it took me this long to shell out for the DVD, shameful, really. Whoever doesn't have it, GET IT. ...Of course many here would complain that it's too long, too everything, overrated, and the lack of females make it conspicuously gayish. ("I mean, what was up with the Turkish Bey? But that slaughter scene was kewl") *** On the topic of digital trickery and (re)creating huge crowds, I recommend watching the "Conversation With Steven Speilberg" featurette. Very interesting; wonder what Lucas thought of his comments. SS did say, though, that to make Lawrence today would take 5 years and cost around $280 million...
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First of all, welcome to the talkback. May God have mercy on your soul. You see, I agree with pretty much what you wrote. I do think this should be a forum for intelligent discourse. I'm fairly new to this site myself, just a couple of months. I found early on that every detailed discussion I tried to post (not just Star Wars releated, but to any topic) was pretty much ignored. In of itself that's not a big deal. But when the LOTR fanatics (not just fans, but absolute fanatics) invade this site and spew bile that's based on nothing but their own insecurity and ignorance, what is a person to do? I guess you could ignore them, but that would be giving them a backdoor victory. Most, I believe, are ignored, but are so persistent in their ignorance I feel compelled to point it out. That's all. I'm all for intelligent discussion. Bring it on.
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I'm really glad that all of the whiners have come together to express their views on this film. Since their arguments are so convincing, I, and all of the other sane movie fans, will take the burden upon ourselves to sit through this movie. It will be hard. I'm sure we will cry. But we're doing it all for you crybabies. You have shown us the error of our ways. We will punish ourselves by sitting throught this horrible movie multiple times. We will even stretch out in the extra seats that are vacated because of your absences, so as to expose our entire bodies to the horror of this movie. Thank you for showing us the way. Now get the FUCK out the way. You're holding up the popcorn line.
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I just read the post from the fella who just saw Lawrence of Arabia on DVD. Congratulatons. It's my favorite movie and I'm glad you enjoyed it, too. But really, it should be seen on a big screen. That aside, your comment about Spielberg's comment got me thinking: digital crowds are terrible. There's just no getting around it. To fill anyone else in, Spielberg said that digital crowd scene don't have the organic nature of actual extras. Or something like that. I don't remember his exact words. It really wasn't a critique ( I'm sure, because he's used plenty of digital crowd scenes) so much as a sigh of resignation. This is what the future of epics are going to be like. Never will a studio fork over the cash for two thousand extras. It will be for a few hundred replicated a dozen times on a hard drive. Sadly, I've never seen this done in a convincing manner. Recent films such as LOTR, The Mummy Returns, Pearl Harbor, all have had less than stellar results with these crowd shots. In fact, one of the few successful ones have been the Gungan-Droid battle in TPM, but that may have been due to the fact that they weren't recreating human forms. I'll always remember how beautiful a big crowd scene looked in a David Lean movie, or Ben Hur, or even the Tibet sequence in Close Encounters or the Shanghai scenes in Empire of the Sun. It's the sad reality that the fiscal nature of filmmaking has turned so much of what made it special into the hands of the hard drive. But what is one to do? Not make the movies? Or make them in a compromised fashion? I guess we'll always have the classics to remember where it all came from.
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Okay I went to that reelbuff site and saw what that guy said, and after he finished cutting down all the CGI effects and backgrounds he went on to say that he will still be lining up at midnight to see it, but he is more excited for Raimi's Spiderman because that is a director who knows what he is doing. What's wrong with this? Well for one thing LOOK AT THE FUCKING SPECIAL EFFECTS IN SPIDERMAN!!! NO LESS CGI LOOKING THAN STAR WARS!!! This man is obviously on crack. The final word on the CGI: It's here to stay, lets deal with it.
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Minder, I know you love taking shots at my credibility, but if you actually stopped to listen to the sound of your own Hobbit friend's voices, you might know of what I speak. A rundown of the facts: I asked "Why do people who clearly hate Star Wars, who clearly have no interests in the new trilogy, who find it boring, why do you keep coming here for news?" In response, your compatriot Minas Tirith wrote,"To give SW fans grief." What am I to assume from the die hards when that's the response I get? And it's not only his response, either. I first logged onto this posting Sunday night, fresh after the commercial aired on the West Coast. You know what? Every negative post mentioned LOTR and what an "ass kicking" it would give SW. And that's just this posting. I won't even mention earlier ones where the LOTR fan base saw the need to be the first in the door with their nonsense. I've always said anyone who likes/dislikes a movie is entitled to their opinion. But when they get into my grill about it, then I'm not going to sit and just take it. I'll discuss with anyone intelligently the difference between the two movie (yes, my Spock ears are ready to go), but when the LOTR fan base rushes the door with their irrational words, I'm going to respond. And the fact that so many of you can only answer with attacks on me and not my criticism, shows how right I am.
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Honestly, what is with all these bullshit arguments saying "why should this be realistic....do you want a movie about a carwash?" are so misleading and childish. The purpose of special effects is to allow new realities to pop up on the screen and transport us. Read: WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO TELL WHAT IS COMPUTER GENERATED AND WHAT ISN'T. the new SW films are the worst for this - sure I love SW, of course I'm going to see them and enjoy to a certain degree - but they feel completely, utterly FAKE, like a really nice computer game. I find it infinitely hilarious the original 3 looked exponentially more realistic and in turn more interesting. The visuals in all 3 of the originals will remain in my mind forever - they were imaginative, beautiful, and carefully thought out. SW Ep 1's, on the other hand, were recycled computer trash that totally invalidated audience participation. It wasn't a FANTASY, it created a false reality. I feel sorry for my classmate Natalie Portmant...acting in front of a bluescreen all the time must be an absolute bitch.
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To get PJ to direct/write Ep. III. Hurry, offer expires shortly. http://www.petitiononline.com/dgkomxpq/petition.html
Renata, please, Star Wars is beyond hope, and I hate it, yes I do. You not pulled a good one with the Roeper Ebert stuff, the very few you have spoken against LOTR, so few who don't like it. But I think you might be jealous cause LOTR has Nominations and well Lucas has none to TPM. But over all this trailer means little. It looks again to be a kiddie movie, sure it might be fun, but fun only in a stupid way. Gosh, just one more SW movie and it's over, over for good. -
Mar 12, 2002 12:30:14 PM CST
Hey MrLimey, shove it up your rancid shithole you fuck!!! LOTR
by bunger
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Sincerely, not snidely: First of all, welcome to the talkback. May God have mercy on your soul. You see, I agree with pretty much what YOU wrote. I do think this CAN be a forum for intelligent discourse. I'm not fairly new to this site myself, been here a couple of years. I found early on that every detailed discussion I tried to post (not just LOTR-releated, but to any topic) was pretty much ignored the first few days the TB was opened. In and of itself that's not a big deal. But when the Star Wars fanatics (not just fans, but absolute fanatics) invade this site and spew bile that's based on nothing but their own insecurity and ignorance, what is a person to do? I guess you could ignore them, and that Wouldn't be giving them a backdoor victory. Most, I believe, are ignored, but are so persistent in their ignorance I sometimes still feel compelled to point it out. That's all. I'm all for intelligent discussion. Bring it on. *** Gross generalization works both ways. Read my earlier posts, especially about painting all fans of any franchise with a single brush. And please don't keep confusing pomposity with intelligence; you've got a brain, it appears, which is always commendable in this cess pool, but you seem to completely lack a sense of humor, or at least one that manifests itself more cleverly than "Frodo fuck doll" comments. That'll keep you (and your detailed dicussions) ignored here 9 times out of 10. Again, not trying goad you here, unless it's to goad you into lightening up a little. If you want intelligent discussions, seek out the posters discussing intelligently and address them directly. Stick to what amuses you. These message boards "shouldn't" be anything. What Talkback is, however (my working metaphor so far), is a big party in a small space. Enjoy the pleasant company at the bar, and let the assholes yelling at each other in the middle of the room yell amongst themselves. Yell OVER them when necessary, but don't bother yelling AT them. (I know, I often can't help it, either. Depends on the morning's caffeine intake, usually.) You've made it abundantly clear your great dislike (to put it mildly) of FOTR; fair enough, so do a couple of my best friends in the real world. We laugh about it over beers. But don't let your opinion of the movie let you only see, or react to, the LOTR asshole fans. Like I've tried to point out, they're loud but FEW, and there's just as many (and just as vile) Star Wars (and Matrix, and Marvel, and Trek, and...) asshole fans as well. In general, if you couldn't tell from the majority of the content here, this is definitely a Film Geek site, not a Film Snob site, and that usually means fights before talks, but that also means an embracing of the kitsch, camp, and cult of film just as dearly as the art. (That might not be your taste, but I hope it doesn't chase you off.) Just... good luck finding "mise-en-scene" used correctly in a sentence, at least not sarcastically. *** As I said, I did see Lawrence of Arabia on the big screen, unfortunately that was the resoration/rerelase over ten years ago. It's one of the Greats that should be on the big screen EVERY ten years. (Hell this year's it's 40th anniversary, dammit. Who's in charge?!?) Ironically, and tragically, I had a terrible sunburn at the time, and jeezus pleezus that's a hard movie to watch when just lifting your arm makes you wince and sweat... I do agree with what you said Renata, regarding Speilberg's comments, and the future of Epic Crowds. And that is, definitely, a shame. As applied to AOTC, what I've seen in the trailer impressed me greatly. Hopefully it'll hold up past the quick cuts of a trailer.
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Mar 12, 2002 12:35:08 PM CST
Renata, if you are looking for intelligent discourse, you've
by bababooey fett
Over the past year or so, this site has become over-run with 15 year-old trolls who are competing in a 'who-can-fling-the-biggest-insult' game. They love to jump on the LOTR bandwagon & bash the 'mainstream' Star Wars fans. I would invite you to read my previous post, but this TB has grown so long & convoluted that even I can't find it now. Suffice to say, that trying to have an intelligent debate with an anonymous 15 year-old is like trying to get your 3 year-old to eat lima beans - No matter what you do, they are just not interested & are looking for the first opportunity to hit the cookie jar. Save yourself the aggrevation. I usually only drop by in the hopes of some superior wit from Buzz Maverick & a few other clever TB veterans. Otherwise, this site is a joke.
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Seriously, PUD I was waiting for some idiot to pop out of the wood work and accuse LOTR of something non PC. But saying that hobbits are supposed to be representative of Gays, that's just unbelieveably DUMB. Tolkien went out his way to make sure that his books would be nothing more than an exciting adventure about the ultimate battle of good versus evil, the movie follows this creed. I have to give you credit for something though, yours is by far the STUPIDIST posting I've seen on this ENTIRE board! Incidently those inbred hicks who killed Matthew Shepard probably never read anything more than a JUGS mag in their whole, misbegotten lives. Which, if there is any justice in the world, will be over very soon.
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Ever since I heard the title of Ep. 2 I've been looking forward to the poster. I figured there'd at least be a whole bunch of Clones. Attacking. And not just a little, down in the corner, under the huge noggins of Hayden and Nat. Man, I was hoping for something a little more dynamic than THAT. Well, fingers crossed, maybe it's just fan art after all......
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Have there been people who have commited blatant pro LotR/anti SW trolling? Sure. And there has been just as much anti LotR/pro SW trolling (just look, there's plenty here). And both sides are wrong. But this is AICN, there will always be mindless XYZ sux/ABC rulez type comments. But based on what a couple people have written, you've made sweeping generalizations of "all lotr fans". And you've degenerated into insults and cheap shots. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
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CoolDan, if I wanted to make the FX better I would scale them back and try building a few real, honest to goodness sets. Most of this film looks like it was shot in front of a bluescreen, even simple shots like people standing in a room. You would think with the money Lucas has he could at least build real interior sets. AOTC looks like a video game. Plain and simple. A video game with bad acting.
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The article you pointed out echoed some of my feelings about the trailer (why is that office CGI? Surely you can make a set of a nice office, with some blue-screen windows, that would look better than that). However, my response was still quite positive. Also, who's to say that these effects are completely finished right now?
And, CoolDan, I am not suggesting I could do any better. However, I'm also not suggesting I could play hockey any better than Mark Messier, and I still think he should retire. -
There's a phase now of LOTR pricks, because the world's just seen that movie. Three years ago, long before LOTR was even cast, it was TPM. And The Matrix. And either loving or hating TPM or loving or hating The Matrix was argued to be "bashing the mainstream" depending entirely on whether that particular little git loved or hated whichever franchise. If you hang out here long enough, you get used to filtering out the teens and backyard-wrestlers, in any topic. Sometimes the filter gets clogged, though, and one can't help but get the filth all over you. It's gonna be a tough year for the level-headed AICN-er, to be sure.
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when I say, "There are no hobbits in it, so I'm not going." They might have gotten me if Sarah Michelle Gellar (aka the goddess Buffy) was in it... but she's not. Natalie who?
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Uninformed Man: WHATZ the deal? Episode 2 had NO PLOT!! It waz just a bunch of images and CGI! And why the HELL did Fox broadcast it BEFOER it was released theatricly, and cut the running time to a minute? I DEMAND my 8 bucks back!
Semi-Informed Man: Ah...I think what we just saw was the trailer. The TRAILER. You know, the preview. It truly boggles the mind, UM, that you are leveling all this critisicm on a pissant little advertisement.
Uninformed Man: It all sux. Why, when I was but a lad, I was watching Episode III and my terminal cholera was healed...
Semi-Informed Man: First off, UM, you're still young. Late 20's/early 30's don't exactly make you guru of Sheep Mtn., so git off'n your high horse. Second, no, Star Wars never healed your diseases, changed your life, or broadened your horizens when you saw it for the first time. If anything, a work of fiction is the catalyst that awakens qualities that already resided in you. It did not create 'em. So stop waxing poetic, wouldja? It's ok to enjoy the flicks, but worshiping them is both scary and a disservice to yerself.
Uninformed Man: Skrew you.
Semi-Informed Man: Yo mama. -
People were saying the same negative things about the shift from black and white film to color. Should I continue?
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Honestly, I want AOTC to be good as much as the next star wars fan, but this trailer really didn't impress me. I liked the three teasers, and most of the stuff I've been seeing on this site has raised my hopes for AOTC, besides the shoddy title and the rumoured NSYNC cameo which might not happen anyway. (I'll admit I overreacted to the NSYNC cameo deal. I wasn't so much pissed off at the fact that they had a cameo in the film as I was at the fact that Lucas cared so little about taking audiences into a fantasy universe that he'd give pop icons cameos just because his daughter asked him to.) My hopes are still fairly high. I think a lot of the CGI will look better in the actual film. Everythings to bright and colourful on quicktime. Makes it look fake. There was a lot of really cheesy dialogue and bad acting by the looks of it. The humour isn't funny, it's forced, just like Jar Jar Binks was forced humour. I'm sorry but I'm disappointed by this trailer after how crazy everyone seemed to be going over the ep2 footage. A lot of the fans on this talkback are making it out as if we're supposed to think the film and CGI look good because we couldn't have made it better ourselves. So the only people who have valid'movie opinions are directors and special effects teams? BS. If the CGI looks fake, it looks fake, whether I could make it better or not, and in a film like SW good CGI is important. I'm not going to say the film is crap based on a trailer, but this trailer was crap. I hope the film is good.
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I don't think there's inherently a problem with CGI as a tool. I think the problem is when directors rely on CGI to do everything including effects that would be better done by traditional means. Compare the asteroid shots in this trailer to the beautiful chase in 'Empire'. I think the chase in Empire looks much more realistic and interesting. When CGI is used in combination with full sets, live-action animatronics and miniatures it can come off wonderfully. Spielberg has probably had the best luck with this sort of combination with Jurassic Park and A. I. Say what you will about A. I. but the effects where breath taking. One thing I noticed on the DVD is that Rouge City was a full size set with models and CGI used in the background or for anything that couldn't be built full-size. Lucas seems to have a tendency to strand his actors in a see of blue or green screen which just makes it look like they're pasted in a CGI movie (and I think is why the actors often seem bored.) In TPM Coruscant and Theed came off the best since they combined live sets, models and CGI. However the final droid battle and Otah Gunga where created 100% CGI and looked fake. I thought Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon Jinn looked pasted in there like when you have a live action actor in a cartoon like in Mary Poppins or Roger Rabbit. I do think it's over-kill to use a CGI Yoda for every shot but it's unfortunately by necessity since Frank Oz just doesn't care enough to take the time and work on SW for a month or so. He gives Lucas a few days of work and that's it. It's why Yoda's dialog in TPM was cut in half from the script. (And even then his performance lacked the veracity of his work on 'Empire') So far I think the CGI Yoda is pretty good except for that final shot. It looked very CGI. I really hope ALL the effects in this trailer are in a rough unfinished form since they lacked the believability of the effects in "A. I." and "Fellowship of the Ring" both of which carefully used a combination of all effects tools, not an over reliance on CGI. Had Teddy been all CGI in A. I. I don't think his character would have been as believable. When there is mix of animatronics and CGI, the CGI has to match (say for Teddy's running scenes) so it helps the 3D artist to get more realism since they have to match a live action element. I also think that's why the CGI dinos in JP looked so real since the artists had to carefully match the live-action dinos Stan Winston created. It's why I wish to God they would have went with the original idea for Jar Jar and just animated his head with CGI. That way he would have been grounded in reality and not appeared so cartoonish in his movements. One things I don't understand in the trailer is why ALL the sets are CGI and why all the clone troopers's are CGI. (Give me the stormies in costumes anyday). Not to mention there's no reason for the troop transports to be CGI when models would suffice. I just hope it looks much more realistic in the final version so I won't be yawning and checking my watch like I always do during the Gungan/Droid battle. If Lucas wanted to make a animated Jar Jar/Gungan movie couldn't he have done it AFTER SW was completed? Then maybe at least half of Jar Jar's screen time could have gone to Obi-Wan... Then maybe there would be a main character in AOTC that I already love and care about (besides Yoda). Anakin was a banal kid, Obi-Wan was just Qui-Gon's apprentice who is so unimportant he lives him behind on the ship to baby-sit the Nabooians even though he KNOWS the Queen is going with him. The queen is both guises was pretty dull... Oddly enough TPM is the only movie with Nat Portman where I found here dull. Seems to me the only characters Lucas gave any "character" are Qui-Gon and Jar Jar. Qui-Gon I love (and now he's dead having died for no good reason except to set-up Episode 2) and Jar Jar is like an annoying ADD kid I can't stand to be around for more then ten minutes at a time. Overlooking the plot-holes and story-telling gaffes that where abundant in TPM, Lucas really dropped the ball because he didn't make us fall in love with the main characters like we did with ANH. I did fall in love with Qui-Gon but he's not in AOTC. Even if it's a good movie and a big improvement over TPM I won't go into it like we all did going into 'Empire'. "Ahh there's Luke! There's Han! Leia! The Droids! Woohoo!" I want to care about Obi-Wan because I love Old Obi-Wan in the OT and I think Ewan is an awesome actor. Watching the trailers for TPM I actually thought Obi-Wan and not Qui-Gon would be my favorite character in the movie. However he didn't do much except sword fight. We never got any great insight as to who he was or his relationship with Qui-Gon until the film was nearly over. I also want to care about Padme since she is Luke and Leia's mom and I love Natalie Portman as an actress. However to do that Lucas has to have her be as firey as Leia was in ANH and ESB. Not just sleep walk through the movie like she did in TPM. (..and Carrie did in 'Jedi') I just really feel Lucas has become so wrapped up in effects he's forgotten that it was the characters and story that made the forgotten great, not the special effects. Sure it's great that we can now have tons of effects in every shot of the movie compared to the sparse 300 or so shots in each installment of the forgotten. However do we need effects in ever shot? Do we need all the sets to be digital? Do we need all the aliens to be CGI? The original version of the Cantina scene was all done with guys in rubber masks and it was wonderful! The ugnauts, Jawas and Ewoks where all little people in outfits and make-up and they where cool! (Yes I said the Ewoks where cool. They didn't hog up screen time, they kicked the Empire's ass and they EAT HUMANS!). The Gungans couldn't even take a bunch of battle droids made out of basal wood. The Ewoks would not only slaughter the Gungans in a battle they would EAT THEM afterward. AHAH! Wait.... This was a post now it's turning into a sleep-deprived rant. I think I need sleep... Anyway I just want to say I want the old Lucas back. The one who once said "Special Effects without a good story is a pretty boring thing." The Lucas who cared about story and characters more then he cared about special effects and pleasing his kids. I guess AOTC will tell the tale. Oh and regardless of what Lucas apologists may think had Lucas started with TPM back in 1977 it would be an entirely different film and not because of the technical restraints. Lucas HAS changed and he's changed Star Wars with him. "Greedo fired first" should be enough proof of that.
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I wish AICN let us edit posts
I make some fucked up typos when I'm half-awake. Then I read my post and feel like an idiot. DOH. -
A LOTR fan came up to you in the lobby and tried to start a fight with you because you didn't like the movie? That is pretty sad, but that guy wasn't the sole representative of the LOTR fanbase. Don't make it out as if LOTR fans are the only ones causing problems on the TB. There's lots of SW trolls as well. You say you don't begrudge those who enjoyed LOTR? I don't know about that. I remember you posting anti-LOTR fan hate speech a while back, on a LOTR related article, telling 'LOTR dice throwing geeks to get out of their mothers basement' or something along those lines, displaying the very ignorance and immaturity you're accusing LOTR fans of. Anyway, I think people are making this LOTR vs SW war out to be bigger than it really is. I notice most people on the TB, myself included, go on about how they like both of them and the bickering is pointless. It's just a select group of rabid fans who feel they have to promote their franchise by trashing the other ones. Maybe if we ignore them they'll go away.
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I thought the movie would be OK until the "Clone Wars" Trailer.
Lots of stiff acting and movement - a condition associated with digital actors, background and action. When Samuel L. block the laser beam and Natalie aims her gun it clearly breaks down. The dialogue is blatantly expositional and delivered in a flat matter. We see sequences that we've seen before, and some more than once, in the Saga : the giant battle field, the asteroid chase, the heros on the chasm, old enemies, etc, etc, etc... This movie is not the Empire Strikes Back of the Prequels - it is a cannibalization of entire trilogy for material. So what do we get? Jedis - a bunch of them - fighting digital monsters in Lucaworld; a realm that no long reflects the ideal of my youth. Yeah, Jango Fett looks cool but i'm not sure the action is going to make up for the corny political sequences, the corny romantic sequences or the corny spiritual farce that the Force has now become.
Once shot i did like - the "Black Hawk Down" footage with the Clone landing craft. The Clones are hanging their boots out the bottom of the Clone "chopper" as they go into battle. Pretty sweet - but i want something a little deeper than eye candy. Because Lucas fucked up and made Anakin so young in Episode I - there can be no realistic romantic connect made between the first and second prequel. Lucas realizes this and tries to cover it up with endless action and plot complications. These prequels are not simple like the original but nor are they complex. They just seem to be contrived. And here we are back on Tatooine. -
I've been observing the last few SW talkbacks carefully. Renata claims he wants intelligent conversation without any bashing or insults. I myself have been saying the same thing so I think that's great.... Except for the fact he seems to be always ready and willing to add fire to all the SW vs LOTR nonsense and bash LOTR and ALL of it's fans. It's plainly obvious that there are plenty of LOTR fanboys AS WELL SW fanboys who act very badly and I for one as a fan of both franchise would NOT want to be judge by any of those assholes. Renata also complains about trolls but his anti-LOTR posts are trolling at it's worst, albeit better written then most and more subtle but trolling none the less. I also think it's worth mentioning that he has stated he is a USC film school grad and now a filmmaker, yet I don't recall him saying what films he's written, directed or produced. I myself have studied screenwriting and hope to go to the New York Film Academy some time in the future if the right opportunities present themselves (I'd rather not talk about my personal obstacles in this forum) however I refuse to call myself a screenwriter or filmmaker until I have either written or directed a completed commercial film. I'm not saying Renata is lying about USC and filmmaking, I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. However for a working filmmaker he seems to have a lot of free time. I just hope he quits with the LOTR-fan bashing and practices what he preaches.
-Yoda out. -
Monday March 11th 2002. I found myself becoming moderately aroused as I watched this new trailer for AOTC. Then suddenly, moments after it had finished, and I felt the warm afterglow usely associated with post-coital satisfaction, I had this horrible feeling rising up throughout my body. What was it? Joy? Disbelief? Wonder? NO. Deja Vu. 3 years ago you see we were all lured into the same trap. Millions worldwide confounded into thinking all was well in a cunningly edited piece of misdirection that trading on our collective nostalgia, whipped us into a frenzy before we realised that rather than a the uber blockbuster of all time we'd been dealt a shocking piece of crude, ill-conceived effects heavy bullshit. HOW QUICKLY WE ALL FORGET. I, like Yoda, feel a disturbance in the force. It seems to me the plot of this trilogy is a metaphor for the battle between new episodes and old. The classic films we all love fighting a desperate battle to remain in our effections despite the best efforts of its offspring to stike it down as surely as Vader did to Obi-Wan. The same structural problem that existed with TPM hasn't gone away and close observers of this trailer should see all the warning signs. THOSE Phantom Nusiance characters are still there, festering for attention. Dull Amidala, bland Mace Windu, one note- Young Obi-wan, Can't act baby Skywalker and, blink and you'll miss him, the evil gungan himself. His lines cut from this, and all previews in the vain hope of getting SOME people in on opening weekend. It looks terrific, but of course it will won't it? This is ILM, not the FX team behind Star Trek 5. It means nothing. The original movies had terrific effects for thier time but thats not why we love them. Its the characters, the beautiful simplicity. Thats what makes those particular stories so enduring. Come May 16th i'm gonna hope and pray and so should you becuase i've seen nothing with this preview that convinces me that we're heading for anything other than the Phantom Menace 2. Now who'd really want to see that?
Sadly, everybody.
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Star Wars episode one was sooooo... boring.When I first watched it,my brother was sitting next to me asleep with drool hanging from his mouth.I saw a trailer though,and it looked okay.There might be hope.
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Mar 12, 2002 8:21:45 PM CST
Swizzletoes? Morgoth you are so witty . i marvel at your intelle
by virgil sollozzo
except i dont because you obviously dont have any, and your last post only proved my description of you I posted earlier to be right. You are lame in your accusations of me being afraid of letting my true identity be known, when i am fully aware my email address is visible, and have indeed revealed myself in earlie talkbacks. But I guess you didnt visit that article because there was no opportunity to bash SW or Promote Lotr. I dont come here to argue with fantasy loving, dorky , fanboys, I come to talk movies. Yes I did bash you when you hadnt even posted, but what about it? call me and elfkiller stupid all you want, but you'll still be the same bitter, dickless fantasy dork, unaware of the reality that no matter what you say on the net, it still neither changes your or my situation in the actual world.Me? Virgin? and your just bagging all the girls right? i thought you were only faithful to your giant poster of rosie the hobbit?
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"MAtrix won 4 for using CGI that created a fantasy world that looks incredibly believable. It made you leave the theatre scared that you could be in a matrix yourself and not even know it. TPM won ZERO oscars for special effects, and made me leave the theatre happy that those places don't really exist, and that I was safely still on earth the whole time. Whats to argue?".... That was one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on this site. So the Academy makes the decisions for you as to what's great FX? Get a brain and use it.
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First of all, Dragonfire: It's your right to believe me or not when I say I went to USC (who would lie about that?) and whether or not I am a filmmaker. I'm not going to list my credits as, well, you could flip right over to IMDB and look me up. One of the joys of the talkback is the ability to talk in anonymity, and I respect all TBers and think mine should be respected, also. Suffice it to say, my last name isn't Lucas, Spielberg, Scorsese, Cameron, Verhoeven, etc. I'm not an A lister; hell, I'm not even a B or C lister. I'm just a young guy who went to college, graduated, made a movie, played at festivals last year, and am now writing a feature that will hopefully get made with the heat from my indie. That's it. I'm on this site a lot (and I think I've said this) because I've been writing a lot on the computer and I switch over to take a break. Anyone who's been involved in the early stages of making a movie knows what a tedious, tiresome, unglamorous process it can be and a little intelligent dialogue helps (me, anyway) take my mind off it, however briefly. There's no mystery to it. Whether you believe me or not is inconsequential to me. In a couple of months, I won't have time to be on this site and you'll be rid of me. My credentials are fairly irrelevant; my words should not be: I love filmmaking and films. My irritance with a lot of the Talkbackers come from their inability to talk intelligently (I'm generalising, but I think you know who you are) about something that I take so seriously and passionately. If I scream and insult at times, it's to get a reaction out of some of the Talkbackers. I won't apologize for my words; after all, they got a reaction that my attempts at intelligent discussion didn't. Sadly, it seems like the only way to get your message across is to yell, much like in the film industry. I won't apologize for hating FOTR. I thought Peter Jackson took Tolkien's books and made them into The Mummy Returns. Bad CGI, bad script, bad shots. I could go on. I won't apologize for being a Lucas booster (notice, I didn't say AOTC booster). I won't apologize for trading insults with LOTR fans, especially after they've sent threatening e. mails to my home, saying they will kill me for not liking their movie. Yes, I've gotten two such e. mails in the past month. No joke. I know they're idiots talking out of their blow holes, but as the Irish used to say, "Is this a private fight or can anyone get involved?" As far as I'm concerned, the LOTR fanatics picked this fight with me for just stating my opinion. I'm more than happy to oblige. As for Pallando, thank you for your praise and criticism. I'll take them to heart. The only point I disagree with is my sense of humor. I think I'm real fucking funny!
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Sorry Dragonfire. Got mixed up. I was addressing JMYoda's comments.
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...spouts Yoda for the millionth time, and he's right; not only about Anakin's slide into the Dark Side, but about Hayden C. himself. H.C. is a GRAVE DANGER to the craft of acting. HE CANNOT ACT! Watching the new trailer, I was enthralled by the scale of the unfolding Clone War and the film's overall darker tone. Then Anakin snottily delivers his "I'm in charge here, Milady" line with all the aplomb of an eight-year-old swiping his friend's toy. Ugh. If this scene -- combined with the "I'll show them!" scene from trailer 3 -- is any indication, I'll be longing for the days of incessant Jar-Jar-isms of '99. Good God, I'm actually wishing that Lucas HAD cast Leo DiCaprio.
Cringing in advance,
HG -
anyone notice you can see the red cloaked imperial gaurds in the backround
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There are a lot of reasons someone would lie about being a USC film school grad and a filmmaker on a *FILM* site. The main one would be to try to persuade gullible talkbackers into thinking you know what the hell your talking about when you don't. Personally I find it hard to believe your claims since you don't wish to tell us who you are. (Usually a dead give-a-way for fakes.) If you don't wish to have to prove your a filmmaker and remain anonymous then you never should have mentioned it. When you don't prove it when asked saying you wish to remain anonymous it makes you comes off as typical fanboy wannabe who is trying to impress people by claiming to be something they're not. Put 'JMYoda' in any search engine and you can find my full name, my phone number, what state I live in... Just about everything about me. I find it very hard to believe you've received death threats. I've been an active participant of the Internet community (including AICN) for over five years and I often state opinions that are none too popular with lots of people yet I've never once received a death threat. I also find it hard to believe your a serious student of film or a filmmaker if you think the wonderful "Fellowship of the Ring" is ANYTHING like the God-awful Mummy Returns and has "Bad CGI, bad script, bad shots". (Actually that description would be more fitting to TPM or what we've seen thus far of AOTC) Or you where so blinded by your love for all things Lucas you entered the theater wanting to hate it. The effects in FOTR where way better then the terribly fake Gungan droid battle in TPM which you praise highly. I can't think of a better (or is that worst?) example of lazy CGI. All the Gungans except Jar Jar and Tarpales look exactly the same (same skin, same clothes, same range of moves) and the scenery looks as fake as a X-Box videogame. While each of the Orcs in FOTR looked different and unique and the landcsapes always looked real and breath-taking. You say FOTR had a bad script yet it was simply a condense version of the book. 90% of the film's dialogue was from the book. Any fan of the books can tell you Jackson did an amazing job adapting them. (LOTR happens to be my all time favorite books just as the OT are my all-time fav movies) Nearly all the major critics and the major awards groups (including the academy) seem to think the film is fantastic. In fact it's the most praised film of 2002. (just check Rotten Tomatoes) The only major critic who didn't love the film was Roger Ebert but he's more wishy-washy then even Harry anymore. Heck he gave the worst film of the year - 'Tomb Raider' a full 3 stars! But I guess all of LOTR book fans, all the critics and all the filmmakers all over the world are wrong and your right. FOTR is a piece of shit and TPM is Lucas' masterpiece. Riiiight. Here's a challenge: Since you say your a filmmaker go out and make a film better the 'Fellowship of the Ring' You couldn't in a million years and you know it. That is why you want to hide behind the anonymity of your screen name like a little boy hiding behind his mommy's skirt. I also find it hard to believe your the person of intelligence and integrity that you try to come off as if your going to stoop as low as the trollers and fling flames back at them. I've learned to just ignore the trolls and address only talkbackers interested in intelligent discussion. Or if I do talk to the trolls it's only to set them straight, not to insult them or the things THEY love. (Unless I have the points to back it up.)
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I was a little hesitant to give AOTC praise after seeing the "Forbidden Love" trailer, but upon watching this self-titled most recent one I am really looking forward to this movie. I've loved Star Wars through my childhood, and being in my mid-twenties now I am fascinated about this story and I could not have come up with a better story of the rise and fall of a great Jedi/Sith and the redemption of him through his love for his son. Personally I think that what this whole series is about. The trailer of course shows snippets from some of the major action scenes, and personally I like the Jedi arena scene and of course the scenes between Obi-Wan and Anakin as well as Anakin and Palpatine. The trailer showed enough to excite us and go "whoa" but did not divulge much about the story itself aside from the battle sequences. I am really wondering what exactly Anakin does to start his descent into fate and what purpose Count Dooku will serve. Another thing is that I'm sure some major character(s) die, and this trailer did not give that away like how the Duel of Fates video gave away Qui Gon Jinn's death. We know Yoda, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Amidala, Bail Organa, Owen Lars and Beru Whitesun, and some others don't die. It's pretty much a given almost entirely all the Jedi Council die. So much good stuff to look forward to over the next couple of years in SW Ep's 2&3. God I can't wait.
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CAN ANYBODY TELL ME HOW CAN I SAVE MY CLONE WARS TRAILER IN MY HARD DISC WITHOUT HAVING QUICK TIME PRO?
I JUST HAVE QUICK TIME PLAYER,THAT MEANS THAT I CANT SAVE MY MOVIES.PLEASE GIVE ME A HINT IF YOU WANT!!! -
I loved the three original SW when they came out. I did not think much of The Phantom Menace for various reasons, but I would not say it was a "bad" movie. I do, however, admit that I am anxiously awaiting The Clone Wars, mainly because of the Fetts (my favorite characters from that universe). I'd never read LotR at the time I went to see the movie. LotR is the only movie, since the original SWs Trilogy, that I have gone to see multiple times in the cinema. I'm not sure why it's so difficult to be fans of both movies. I'm a SW junkie, and now I'm a LotR junkie, too. And hey, I managed to put up an entire post without throwing out gratuitious vulgarities that serve no purpose.
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Perusing these forums are quite interesting. I like Star Wars, like most of you. I like LOTR. What do they have in common? Ummm, fantasy? I guess. Does it really matter which movie is better? I like the people in here that talk about the experience they remember of first seeing Star Wars. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. THAT is what I like hearing about, 'cause it's what I feel about this whole damn story AND that includes TPM. (Maybe to a lesser degree but this is not a fricking complex drama with level upon level of character development, it's STAR WARS.) TPM was a good flick. Popcorn? Perhaps, but there really is no category for Star Wars. It rules. It is fun. It's one of the those things, kind of like a good feeling, you don't know why but it's awesome. I don't have the right to tell any of you what to like or not like. But I do know what works for me. I found this site just a few days ago and thought I'd check out these message boards. I have to wonder if some of you people (just a few, not all) are really in person like the way that you speak in here. It's like a bunch of children going wild when the parents aren't home. I am a fan of this movie and yeah LOTR was okay too. But they really don't have a whole lot in common and very few of you are experts in films or film-making and could not do a better job at making Star Wars than Lucas can. This is his movie. He can do whatever he wants with it and he's much more rich and has a lot more power than any of us. TPM is as much Star Wars as ROTJ, ESB, or ANH are. Like or not, people, this is fact. For myself, I don't give a shit if anybody in any of these movies are gay. They're not around me, and the only thing I care about Ewan McGregor or any of them in person is whether or not they effectively portray a young Obi-Wan Kenobi to me. Like I said, it's interesting to go through here and see what some of you have to say.
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Speculation is fun, and that's what makes it exciting to talk about Star Wars and what Lucas might do. I don't know about you all, but I am amazed about how many things I heard a year or more ago from fan sites (and blew off as rumors) is coming true! Character names, events, planets, even plot items! All I can say is that some of the people that work for Lucas or are involved in the project have loose lips. Lucas tried to keep it airtight and obviously he failed. Of course there are SOME mysteries, and a lot of us sure are looking forward to see exactly what happens to make Anakin turn. Of course it's gonna be a series of events, but you know there's got to be a "straw" that breaks his back. I think Mace Windu would be the obvious choice (I heard a rumor about this too) to die in AOTC. I love having someone of a minority race in such a high position on the Jedi Council. It shows Lucas has taste not just to include us "common" white folk but also other races. Kudos for that one, George. But the character SLJ plays seems the obvious sacrificial lamb. (We know Yoda doesn't die, and Ki-Adi-Mundi (or should that be Mundane) just doesn't strike me as the kind of character that will be anything beyond a guy who just sits in the background. There are lots of interesting folks on the Council but I doubt most of them will get much limelight. Poor ole Mace will probably die, let's just hope he does so for some reason other than just to kill off a powerful Jedi. Also why was Jar-Jar not in this trailer? I know that this dude has to have some purpose to this story other than a bumbling idiot. Like I said in earlier posts, George can do what he wants, but I honestly hope Jar-Jar at least saves Amidala or main character's life to at least gain a small level of respect from us. It looks like R2-D2 has some kind of role, which is good. Hopefully GL brings in C-3P0 a little more this time. Now those two droids I thought were good comic relief in the original trilogy. Count Dooku....hmmm. This guy is the real dark sheep and I want to see if indeed he is a true Sith Apprentice. So much mystery clouds this guy. I believe I heard his name was Darth Tyrannus? Cool name, if it's indeed what Lucas will eventually introduce him as. This will be a very very eventful flick and oh yeah, Boba Fett and his dad! Cool beans, folks.
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"As far as I'm concerned, the LOTR fanatics picked this fight with me for just stating my opinion." AGAIN, a couple people picked on you (poor baby!), and you've declared an entire group to be your enemy. If you were wronged by a black man, would you be making generalizations about "all blacks"?
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Lotr is history. Aotc is the mark of the future. The year belongs to AOTC. wE ARE THE sONS OF THE sITH. wE WILL KILL THE OLD MAN gANDALF. hIS hOBBITS WILL WEEP FOR HIM.wE WILL CHOP HIM, WE WILL GRIND HIM. wE WILL BATHE IN HIS BLOOD. we WILL RAZE THE SHIRE, AND STEAL HIS POT STASH. i MYSELF WILL KILL THE FOOL JACKSON,I WILL EAT HIS CLOGGED HEART AND DRAG HIS BODY THROUGH THE STREETS OF TATOOINE. dONT CALL US TROLLS, WE ARE NOW THE LAW IN GENRE MOVIELAND. dO NOT EXPECT ANY FURTHER STATEMENTS, THE sONS OF THE sITH DO NOT TALK, WE ACT. lET ALL PRO-lotr TROLLS BE WARNED. tHEY ARE ABOUT TO ENTER HELL.
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Minder, for you to bring race into this says more about you than I care to know. Period. Shame! And JMYoda, I wish I had saved the e. mails from LOTR fans who threatened my life. Sure, I didn't take them seriously. But it's never pleasant to open your e.mail and receive a letter that read: "I'll fucking strangle you to death if you talk shit again about LOTR." (I can almost see another one coming) And, again, I'll not have to prove who I am. If you had bothered to read my entire posts, you'll remember I stated, quite honestly, I wasn't an important filmmaker. So I'm on IMDB, so what? A lot of people are. But I'm just beginning my career, something which has no relevance to this post or this site. I only brought it up in passing when Euphonium mentioned I was an "intelligent speaker and should get off the TB before it corrupted me". I offered HIM the explanation of why I had been on so much and perhaps I should go for a walk next time instead. And if I were a filmmaker or not doesn't mean I know what I'm talking about more than the next guy. Would you think Michael Bay knew what he was talking about? Hell, he's a million times more successful than I'll ever be and I wouldn't listen to a word that came out of his mouth. I'm not one of these guys who sits around thinking a person's intelligence is measured by what he's achieved, especially in the film industry. I've met a lot of very successful people who, to my thinking, don't know their head from their asses (not that I'm referring to my agent or my manager, if you guys are reading). I'm sure there are a lot of people on TB who inflate their status to inflate their egos. Believe this is the case with me, if you will. But you know from the way I write that I'm not the typical fanboy. Anyway, I diverge. This is a SW post not me trying to prove my worth. I'm sure JMYoda's venom comes from the fact that he has achieved nothing in his life, so far, and can't believe that someone who disagrees with him has. Sorry, man. I'm glad if I type your name in a search engine I'll get all the dirt on you. (Not interested, frankly) I like to protect my privacy a little more than that. That's just me. I enjoy the Halloween aspect of this talkback. But, of course, why do I keep trying to prove the truth? The facts of the matter are this: If you're going to make a movie about Middle Earth, you don't shoot the entire movie in close ups. You want to see the world that Tolkien wrote about. Jackson did nothing to envision that world except jam the camera as close as possible to the actors. And cut to an occasional wide shot that was so obviously CGI as to look like a cartoon, or, as worse, the mini series MERLIN. Jackson took Tolkien's great books and robbed them of all their poetry. They became loud, overbearing Michael Bay epics, not true epics in the manner of a David Lean movie, which, considering their budgets, they could have been. You say Jackson took 90% of the dialogue from the book? Anyone who has adapted a book to the screen knows that that is a recipe for death. Books are books; movies are movies. Their qualities and effects are completely different. To say it's a good adaptaion because 90% of the dialogue is from the book shows your lack of knowledge of how movies are made. You take the spirit of the book, find the scenes that best translate into cinema (with all its bells and whistles) and structure your movie around that. You don't just lay the book out chapter by chapter. That's why the script is bad. It's poorly structured! It's repetitive! When you're reading a book, you can afford the luxury of a looser structure and you can have action that repeats itself, as the reader experiences scenes in a more passive manner. In film, where everything is played out for you, that's deadly. That's bad filmmaking! You claim to be a "screenwriter" yourself. God help you and your future if you can't understand this basic principle. But it's not my job to dish out lessons. Just speak my opinoin.
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You can always tell an ignorant human being when they critique another person's opinion by saying "Go and make a better movie!" Read your post over a couple of times, and you'll understand how immature you sound, like some sandbox boy who had his truck taken away. Pauline Kael (who, if you're unaware, was one of our most esteemed film critics) hated, absolutely hated, Kubrick movies. If she had been on this talkback, would you say to her, "Go and make a beter movie!" What would you say to me if I said to you, "Go and make a better movie than Star Wars, or American Graffitti!" It's so idiotic and typical of the lame reasoning of so many people on this TB that it defies logic! You chide me for fanning the flames of fan war, yet you call me a liar and a little boy hiding behind his mother's skirt, or whatever you said. Notice in my first post to you, I didn't take any personal shots at you. Yet, because in the back of your mind, in the deep recess of your grey cells, you think I might be telling the truth about my (admittedly) young yet lackluster filmmaking career, you see fit to take shots at me personally. Trust me, there's nothing to be jealous of. But I'm a liar, so what do you care, right?
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Mar 13, 2002 12:32:44 PM CST
and Renata honours us with yet another treatise on Why LotR is S
by minderbinder
Hint: this is a SW talkback. Stop wasting everybody's time.
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Being an aspiring filmmaker, I write off my visiting here as research into the minds of audience members, though morbid curiosity is nearer the truth. That being said, I like what I've seen from the collected AOTC trailers. I know it's part of the marketing game to manipulate the audience with 2 minutes of primo stuff -- everytime I see the TPM trailers I want to see THAT movie, not the one that actually exists. But the scope, danger, and conflicts in the AOTC trailers seem to cover a greater depth than that of TPM -- from personal, to galaxy-wide. As for the dialogue and acting -- I guess it doesn't bother me because every filmmaker has a unique style. You either like it, love it, or hate it. Take Tim Burton. I am a hugh fan of his work. I love his visuals, and his off-beat humor. That's his voice. His gift. Lucas, to me, excels in the visuals, the filmmaking technology, sound, and imgination -- all encased in an opertic melodrama that you either buy into or you don't. I think most fans forgive the original trilogy it's camp because they saw it when they were 5-10 years old, when cynicism was nowhere in there lexicon. But the camp is there. Maybe not in your face as much as TPM, but it's there. As for LOTR - it is an astonishing movie. End of story. It's one of the few movies made in the past 10 years that actually has a soul. That seems to be an unpopular addition to a film anymore, but I for one am glad it's there.
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Being an aspiring filmmaker, I write off my visiting here as research into the minds of audience members, though morbid curiosity is nearer the truth. That being said, I like what I've seen from the collected AOTC trailers. I know it's part of the marketing game to manipulate the audience with 2 minutes of primo stuff -- everytime I see the TPM trailers I want to see THAT movie, not the one that actually exists. But the scope, danger, and conflicts in the AOTC trailers seem to cover a greater depth than that of TPM -- from personal, to galaxy-wide. As for the dialogue and acting -- I guess it doesn't bother me because every filmmaker has a unique style. You either like it, love it, or hate it. Take Tim Burton. I am a hugh fan of his work. I love his visuals, and his off-beat humor. That's his voice. His gift. Lucas, to me, excels in the visuals, the filmmaking technology, sound, and imgination -- all encased in an opertic melodrama that you either buy into or you don't. I think most fans forgive the original trilogy it's camp because they saw it when they were 5-10 years old, when cynicism was nowhere in there lexicon. But the camp is there. Maybe not in your face as much as TPM, but it's there. As for LOTR - it is an astonishing movie. End of story. It's one of the few movies made in the past 10 years that actually has a soul. That seems to be an unpopular addition to a film anymore, but I for one am glad it's there.
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Christ, he was bitching about the Palpy - Anakin sceen in his office, and how it looked fake and digital and how the actors look pasted in. That was a full sized real set. Everything in that fucking office was real. The only blue screen was just outside the window. Everything else was totally real...the carpet the paint the scupltures the furniture, everything. What a dumbass.
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"You slow, man, you slow!!". Fucking love that book. Anyhoo, anyone who read my post a couple of days ago hopefully realised that at the end I was talking about Dagobah. Sorry folks but I'd just absorbed eps 4 and 5, and read every one of the [mostly pointless] posts on this TB. I'm gonna reprint an ammended version on the 1-sheet TB!!
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Mar 13, 2002 3:28:07 PM CST
I'm so fucking sick of everybodys negativity and people sayi
by general xod
Why is everything got to be so fucking negative!!!!! If you don
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You're right... Obi Wan's hair doesn't move! Perhaps the craft they are in has a protection field of some sort that Ani turned off so that he could jump out of the craft... you're also right that star wars has moved on... it's more of an eye candy extraviganza these days... LOTR is a real move with masterful acting and excellent dialog...with effects that compliment the movie..not take over the movie... I really believe that LOTR is this generation's TRUE Star Wars!!!
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If any one from Lucasfilm is out there just so you know. Your Clones are impressive (I had to say that) Don't pay attention to these nerf herders. By the way in the car chase on Courasant Anikan's dialogue is fine he's just being a sarcastic little prick towards Obi-Wan and how come no one mentions how good the dialogue was in Forbidden Love Xod
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too much over the top CGI. It looks like The Mummy Returns!!! The original trilogy's model effects still look more real than the cartoon fx.
The new films lack a charismatic lead actor - if Harrison Ford isn't available why not hire Mel Gibson?
The new world George has created seems far more advanced than what it was in the older films..when Obi Wan tells Luke about the Clone Wars in A New Hope do the new films really meet your expectations? -
I hope these talkbacks will be available via archive-search for decennia to come, because the talkbackers who now diss either LOTR or SW while defending any old crap "their" franchise delivers out of some 'fan loyalty', should always be able to go back and snicker at their own youthful folly (especially that dude who wrote an 'why can't we all just get along?' post that turns into SW-fanwanking in, like, the second sentence! This material writes itself!).
Meanwhile, all things AOTC so far suggest an almost obsessive slant towards pleasing/winning back all the fans that were disappointed by TPM (Jango Fett, Faux-Solo oneliners, etc.). Sure enough, Lucas should be able to succeed in making a better movie than the last one, but here's hoping it won't all feel a bit too... wait for it... Forced. The 'epic' scenes impress, though. -
In Dark Knight Returns there's a reason the Mutants become the Sons of Batman...still my favourite comic.
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I think anyone who reads all the posts I've written and all the posts you've written will see who the petty, jealous fanboy is. Strong speech patterns and good grammar do not exclude someone from being a fanboy. (Personally I suspect your jealous that Peter Jackson has inadvertently stole much of George Lucas' prequel thunder.) You don't see me bashing people who think TPM is as good as the OT and far better then FOTR. I just ignore them or take them to task in a discussion. You say the fact that your a filmmaker is irrelevant to the conversation. However if you really thought it was irrelevant you wouldn't have mentioned it in the last two Star Wars talkbacks. You, I and anyone here with any semblance of intelligence know you did so to try to impress others into thinking you where more "in the know" then the average fanboy. For the record I never said you WHERE a liar. I said I find your claims hard to believe if your going to state your a filmmaker in a public forum and when you asked to prove it claim it's irrelevant and that you wish to remain anonymous. As for my comment "go out and make a better movie" I've actually never said that to anyone before. With you it applies since you claim to be a filmmaker. Oh and for the record, I never said I WAS a screenwriter. Here is a direct quote of what I said: - "I myself have studied screenwriting and hope to go to the New York Film Academy some time in the future if the right opportunities present themselves (I'd rather not talk about my personal obstacles in this forum) however I refuse to call myself a screenwriter or filmmaker until I have either written or directed a completed commercial film." - You seem to have a knack for either not reading everything I write or deliberately trying to twist things around. Now for the two funniest parts of your posts. (To me anyway). First off, you state that I'm immature "like some sandbox boy who had his truck taken away" yet your the one who has said - "As far as I'm concerned, the LOTR fanatics picked this fight with me for just stating my opinion. I'm more than happy to oblige." - That sounds uncannily like when I break up a fight between my two nieces and one of them say "Well she started it first!." The second thing I find very funny is you say I'm someone who has accomplished nothing in my life (as if you would know) and you say I'm jealous of the fact your a filmmaker. Listen Renata, you could have a package deal right now with DreamWorks SKG and show me a signed letter by Steven Spielberg welcoming you aboard and I wouldn't be jealous. In fact I'd wish you all the luck in the world. As for me not accomplishing anything in my life. How would you know what I have or have not accomplished in my life? If you mean in way of a career, yes as of yet I haven't accomplished a whole lot. As I stated before I have many personal obstacles that have put my education and career on hold that I don't wish to go into for two reason. One is because such a serious matter doesn't seem appropriate in a film discussion and two, I don't want people to think I'm fishing for pity or anything. I neither want it nor need it. If someone wishes to discuss the matter with me via email I'd be more then happy to. That said all I can say to you Renata is that yes you are more articulate and well spoken then the average fanboy but your personal war on "Fellowship of the Ring" and it's fans is as petty and childish as anything I've seen on these talkbacks. I often talk about my problems and disappointments with the Star Wars prequels very passionately, mainly because I love the OT dearly and the filmmaker George Lucas once was. However I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys them one bit. If someone attacks me for my opinions (and it happens often) I either calmly respond or I just ignore them. Stooping to their level will just make someone appear as childish and petty as they are. Who needs that?
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Mar 13, 2002 6:56:17 PM CST
news flash: Lucas responds to racial criticisms, adds "black al
by minderbinder
Sorry, Xod. But that typo cracked me up.
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I'll make this brief because this is/was a SW talkback and now it's become a Renata talkback. (I am flattered, though) I'll agree with Minder that it's becoming silly. But just to get the record straight: the first time I mentioned I was a filmmaker was in response to a Euphonium post last week, and it was in passing, not like you make it out to be where I was yelling "I've made a movie and I know better than you!". The next time I mentioned it was in response to your post of, what? Yesterday? Whenever. I assume you read my Euphonium response and that's what you were referring to; as far as my memory serves me, I never mentioned it again until I responded to your comment. Why YOU brought it up I have no idea, so don't give me these specious comments like "everyone knows you're just trying to put yourself above the average fanboy." I've got a few friends who are pretty average fanboys. I consider myself one. I don't put myself above them. Just because I happen to be writing a feature and putting together financing doesn't mean I'm not a fanboy. I love fanboys! Not in a Catholic priest kind of way, though. And trust me, if I had a multi million dollar deal from Dreamworks, I wouldn't be chatting with y'all. I'll let it rest at that. Judging from your comments, I think you know I'm telling the truth, however much it pains you to admit it. But, you know what JM, I had another thought about LOTR and its awful script. I was reminded about a quote from Robert Bolt regarding adapting Dr. Zhivago: "It's a magnificent book but not really logical to use the whole thing. I think I ended up using only some 40% of the book. We were only concerened with the essence of the story." That, in a nutshell, is what adapting a book to screen means.
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Man, that trailer was the biggest mess of fast paced shit to grace my computer screen in sometime. This new trailer is subpar to the TPM trailer, so Im expecting the movie to be that much worse then TPM. Winona Ryder's charisma is 10 times as high as these actors. I've been a Star Wars fan since I was a newborn, and Im smacking myself in the face everytime I see a AOTC trailer. The original Star Wars trilogy are still the best movies ever made, however, Lord of the Rings is totally owning the fuck out of this new trilogy, TPM sucked phat cock, and this looks like more of the exact same shit, although Im praying Im wrong... You never know, maybe Lucas will cut all the scenes from the trailers out, then the movie might have some working ground to move up on.
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I'm not 5, hell I'm not 15, I'm not 21 and nieher are most of you. Grow up,get laid, and get a fucking life! You don't like it fine state why you don't like. Don't state why it should be this way or that becouse for the most part it's how the MAN (not god) wants to make it. I you think it could be better rise up off the couch and start a movie of your own. I've seen many a net movie with just as much passion, depth, and action as TPM (though that's not saying much, who are we kidding). Or if you got a real pair create YOUR own movie universe that'll draw fans from the world over. Don't want to? Can't blame you, not many people have tried and even less have done it. And yes ASSholes many critcs are filmmakers that couldn't cut it! Learn it , live it, love it!!!! Now fan boys get over it, it's just a damn movie. You know what happened a long time ago in a galaxy far far away? NOT A GOD DAMN THING! The sooner you just say hey this movie looks cool as hell and let it go there the sooner all the anti-"whatever-the-fuck-other-people-think-ass" will just be yelling with themselves. In closing that was a KICKASS trailer. Hope the movie is half as good.
PS
ANH and TPM SUCKED ASS..but they can, becouse they just set up the movies after them. -
Actually you mentioned being a USC grad and a filmmaker AGAIN in the last SW talkback (the one about the ten min footage shown at ShowWest) so it seemed plain to me you really wanted talkbackers to know that, so I myself wanted to know what films you've done. Pains me? That's funny. I just debate on here for fun and leisure, it's far from the most serious aspect of my life. Like I said in my last post if you ARE a filmmaker more power to you. However you shouldn't keep mentioning it if you don't want to tell us what you've done because it comes across like your making it up. Not that I'm saying you are... It's just a lot of people online DO lie about themselves so I just tend to suspect anyone who doesn't wish to elaborate further. However it doesn't matter, my main issue has really been how you take any chance to slam LOTR and it's fans. You even slammed the film again in your last post. We know the adaptation wasn't inline with your own expectations. Fine and good. 90% of us Tolkien fanatics and 90% of the movie goers and critics loved the film. We're happy with it, your not. End of story. IF you want to discuss it, save it for the LOTR boards. I have lots of problems with TPM and what I've seen thus far of AOTC however I save my opinions for Star Wars talkbacks such as this one. You won't see me putting up one of my long posts detailing everything wrong with TPM on a LOTR talkback. As for your personal war with LOTR fans. Most LOTR fans are nothing like MinasTirith and his ilk any more then most SW fans are like elkiller. I find elfkillers pro-TPM, anti-LOTR and very homophobic posts offensive as a SW fan, a LOTR fan and a human being. However I find it best just to ignore the pathetic little shit since feeding a troll is like feeding a stray cat, they always come back for more. Plus if you keep responding to jerks like MinasTirth and bashing all things LOTR including all of it's fans (especially on SW talkbacks) you simply come across as a troll yourself and I'm sure you don't want that. While I don't agree with your opinions you at least seem to be an intelligent and articulate individual and that is always VERY welcome in this sea of raw sewage full of "SW rulez, LOTR sux" "No LOTR rulez Star Wars Sux" type crap. Just ignore those idiots and I guarantee you'll enjoy these talkbacks a lot more.
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he he
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Lucas sucks CGI co*k! The effects for the originals remain the best I've ever seen. Why? They looked convincing. That's it, plain and simple. They did their job as opposed to beind an advert for an SFX company. The new films look like they may as well be substandard PC games that are all overdone effects and no substance. Just because CGI's so readily available doesn't make it the best option. Episode II looks RUBBISH! I watched the trailer and I wasn't wowed by it, I was appalled. And he's still going for the bloody cinema laughs. All he's doing is ruining some of the best and most convincing characters in I've seen on film. Maybe that's because these films aren't biting ideas fomr Kurosawa and Leone. CGI sucks! Lucas sucks! The new Star Wars movies suck! There just examples of how Lucas is having a nice lengthy session of sucking the giant co*ks of CGI and Merchandise.
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I must agree that CGI has gone completely overboard. But honestly, I don't have a problem with him using copious amounts of cgi on his new films, I have a problem when him going into movies that were perfect 20 years ago and needlessly tinkering with them. I understand removing matte lines and other flaws but adding cgi creatures, crafts, scenery into models and matte paintings is rediculous. Just take the Star Trek TMP Directors Edition, the beautiful work of people like Douglas Trumbull completely evicerated for some cgi that looks out of place and half assed. 2001 still surpasses everything cgi to date and it cost less to make even if you inflated costs to what it would cost today to make it with models and matte paintings. I will see the new Star Wars, and I will enjoy it and when all these movies arrive on dvd in the "archival box" that everyone's been bantering about I'll buy it, will I be pleased about the new footage added to all the movies, not really, would I rather have dvds of the original versions hell yes, but oh well, not my call to make.
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HERE, I LOOOVE STAR WARS AND I LOOOVE LOTR (Note that i used 3 O
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Apr 10, 2002 9:50:35 AM CDT
Great now user with ID of Phantomshitter = TPMSucked = TPMSucked
by matrix_sux
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