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PRINCESS X Appraises The WB's Post-Batman BIRDS OF PREY!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Just as “Smallville” is set in the age before Superman, “Birds of Prey” is set in the age after Batman. Herc’s hero and new best friend, “Princess X,” tells tales of its pilot script:
“Birds of Prey”/WB/WarnerBros/Tollin/Robbins
“Birds of Prey” is the new WB pilot based on the DC comic of the same name. Not being familiar with the comic, I can’t say whether there have been any major departures. But I can say that “Birds of Prey” as television is a resounding …yawn…. It’s poised as a kind of sequel to Batman: the Dark Knight: dark and earnest, with characters that take themselves and their lives extremely seriously. There’s a complete lack of humor or irony. Considering it’s written by Laeta Kalogridis (who wrote on Scream 3, and Tomb Raider) and produced by Tollin/Robbins (Smallville, Varsity Blues) it’s a banal disappointment. I expected thrills, chills, ass-kicking action, and/or arch dialogue. What I got was whiny self-involved characters navel-gazing in a predictable, convenient plot.
The pilot opens in flashback: the docks are burning, Joker is on the run, all’s right with the world. Or is it? …. Joker leaves parting gifts: A teenager’s mother, stabbed, lies dying in her arms. A young woman strips (page two and we have a shower scene…yeesssss!) The doorbell rings, she answers, and she is shot in the stomach. As blood flows artfully across the floor, it pools by the woman’s discarded clothing, and we recognize the symbol of Batgirl. Poor Batgirl. And somewhere else, a young girl wakes up screaming, having seen the whole thing in her dreams.
Flash forward 7 years, and we have two strong females who are not getting along very well. Barbara Gordon nka “the Oracle” fka “Batgirl” is now paralyzed from the waist down. She’s turned her brawn to brains and set up a Secret Lair at Wayne Manor. She and Helena nka “The Huntress” have been continuing to maintain law and order in the burg. But Helena’s having a tough time, okay? It’s the anniversary of the day her mother was stabbed to death in her arms, and she’s just not dealing, okay? She, like all modern protagonists has a shrink. Besides being incredibly obviously suspiciously up to no good, the shrink gives us the exposition we need. After Helena’s mom (Catwoman) was killed, her dad (Batman) disappeared. With nowhere else to go, Helena landed on Barbara’s couch. Mean ol’ Barbara took her in, fed her, clothed her, and taught her everything she knows. So of course, Helena is angry and rebelling. (At this point I’m completely confused about why Batgirl has to teach the daughter of Batman and Catwoman how to be a Superhero).
Back to our story. A train pulls up at Gotham Central, and young Dinah steps off. She’s the girl off the top who woke up screaming, seeing visions. Seems she does that a lot and thus she’s blonde, cute, and has no friends (ahhh…the WB) but it’ll be different here. Not so different, though, because she’s not in town two minutes before a guy gets hit by a bus right in front of her. Touching the now ex businessman, she’s walloped by a vision. The businessman thinks he’s at the dockyard, being eaten alive by rats. He panics and runs blindly. She struggles to stop him, but it’s impossible, and as she turns she sees a figure watching her from the shadows. Splat.
Poor girl, trouble just adores her, and it isn’t another hour before Dinah’s wrestling with a no-goodnik in an alley. Fortunately, the two alpha females have had a what’s it all about talk and Helena’s dealing with it, so Huntress is on the job to save Dinah in the nick of time. Some sweet ass-kicking ensues, after which Dinah, clasping Huntress’s hand in gratitude, gives her the old Dead Zone.
Well, aren’t we all surprised when Dinah shows up at the Secret Lair right in the middle of one of the tiresome how-dare-you-raise-me-like-a-sister bits. Barbara’s been working on a case involving prominent businessmen committing suicide. Dinah takes one look at a picture of one of the ex-businessmen and says, “It wasn’t suicide, I was there”. Yes, she too is a meta-human. Please let me stay, she says, I belong here, I don’t have anywhere else to go. That sounds familiar, says Barbara and Helena stomps out.
With Dinah’s help, a vague plan involving real estate is revealed. Four out of the five guys who were going to buy the dockyards are dead. Helena is dispatched to the last guy’s house, and Dinah’s off to scope out the dockyards.
Turns out Helena knows the remaining man, Ketterly. He was a friend of her father’s. They have a nice cup of tea, and Helena unloads all her angst about being abandoned. Dinah falls through the floorboards of an abandoned warehouse into the Joker’s old headquarters. Guided by Oracle’s voice, Dinah journeys down memory lane to the last time Oracle (Batgirl) fought at her mentor’s side. It was in this very abandoned office where she and Batman cornered the Joker. But wait, someone’s been here recently, using the desk! There are clippings of the dead guys with blood red x’s over their faces! And there’s more! The desk has now got a new blotter, a day timer, a cell phone (what, no recessed lighting, mini-bar, and framed photos of the bad guy…..oh wait….)
Spoilers:
Not kidding about the framed photos. Nope. It should be terribly funny, but it’s not. There on the Joker’s old desk is a framed photo of Ketterly and his family.
Meanwhile, Helena’s fallen under some spell. Ketterly has some amazing ability (never explained) to drive people crazy with their own fears. As soon as Dinah and Oracle put it together, they converge on Ketterly, just as Helena is about to end it all. “No one can help her now”, snarls Ketterly, “she’s trapped in her own fears”. “We’ll see about that”, says Dinah, and she hops into Helena’s vision. Somehow (hello? Rules?) Batgirl is able to come along, and they group-hug Helena into believing she’ll never be alone and abandoned again. Ketterly (still in vision) steps from the shadows doing that sarcastic slow hand-clapping thing villains do, but he’s quickly heave-ho’d by the validated and now ass-kicking Helena.
When they all come to back to real time at Ketterly’s house, he’s a vegetable. He’s tied up nice and neat, delivered to Arkham Asylum, and the girls return to the Lair. Remember the shrink from the top? Well, when she finds out Ketterly screwed up his assignment, she’s very pissed. She is Harleen Quinzel/Harley Quinn, and this is not over. Not by a long shot.
I will say one thing about “Birds of Prey”, it’s written with fabulous visual texture. Fans of the comic will probably love this too, but there’s nothing for a broader audience to relate to. The TV landscape is littered with the corpses of dark fantasies that took themselves too seriously. Harsh Realm, Brimstone, Millennium, and Total Recall….. Look at Angel or Buffy, a deft sense of humor opens up these worlds. Even Smallville, which does take itself seriously, has a very relatable heart. Lighten up “Birds of Prey”, humanize the characters, soften the martyrdom of the leads, and you might find the success of Charmed or Angel. Perhaps under the direction of Mike Tollin, they’ll find a series that works on all cylinders. “Birds of Prey”, the pilot produced by Tollin/Robbins and Warner Bros. shoots in Vancouver in the next month, starring Rachel Skarsten (Dinah/Black Canary), Dina Meyer (Barbara/Oracle/Batgirl), and Ashley Scott (Helena/Huntress).
Princess X
“Ketterly has some amazing ability (never explained) to drive people crazy with their own fears.” Hmm. Sounds more than a bit like the Scarecrow, does it not?
Well, the “Smallville” pilot had its faults. Should we at least be happy that someone committed a piece of Alan Moore’s “The Killing Joke” to celluloid?
To order coffee mugs and boxer shorts adorned with the image of a green, handicapable “Buffy” fanatic, click here.
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If Batman and the Joker can't ever show up in this what's the point? Harley Quinn without the Joker is like, well, Robin without Batman. At least they're keeping the three empowered chicks dynamic alive, the one that worked for Charmed and will soon be "cleverly" reversed for Eastwick.
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Feb 16, 2002 12:49:57 AM CST
Hell after hearing this I'm even more excited about this sho
by spiderblood1969
Sure it sounds like they might need to lighten up the characters a bit but overall it sounds very cool.I wonder if Batman,Robin or the Joker will make a cameo in the series at all or is there some kind of red tape that prevents it.
Still I can't wait!! -
Along with completly changing Black Canary's character, why won't the producers of this show put the characters in costume? They are going to be in some kind of "body armor." Oh, and I'll just bet it's...black. Woo hoo. How's THAT for originality.____"But, Superman isn't in his costume in Smallville." Yeah, that's because HE ISN'T SUPERMAN YET! Clark SHOULDN'T be in costume. But Huntress and Black Canary should.___"Costumes are stupid. No one will watch a show or movie with people running around in costumes." Yeah. Talk to me after Spiderman makes 75 million it's opening weekend. Christ. Is everyone over a WB Morons? -
Feb 16, 2002 12:59:48 AM CST
Something from Tollin/Robbins a "banal disapointment"?
by creamery butter
But they made Goodburger!
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I'd rather know how Batman became BATMAN, than how a bunch of whiny girls took his place after he decided to leave town. ugh.
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And was the whip involved?
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Maybe I'm dense, or maybe I read the review and skimmed too fast, but is this thing live action or animated?
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...in Pre-Crisis DC, Huntress was the daughter of Batman and (I think) Catwoman...so yeah. She isnt anymore b/c they kinda reinvented the whole DC universe after the world was destroyed in Crisis storyline. And now she isnt Batman's daughter anymore. She's just this girl who was the daughter of a mob boss and her entire family was killed by a rival mafia family, so now she wants to be like Batman and stop crime.
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This whole thing sounds like bad fan-fiction. What the Hell?
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...i mean, its no Smallville. No sir! Smallville may have its problems (with comic continuity, villain-of-the-week, etc.) but this sounds like it has a lot more. True, they did include a lot of things that you do have to give them credit for, like Joker shooting Batgirl and paralizing her (though it was a bit different in the comic, more disturbing), or Huntress being Batman's daughter (which she isnt now, but she was in pre-Crisis DC), or the fact that they even mention the Joker and Batman at all. You gotta give them props for including Harley Quinn in the series too, but without Joker by her side, its just not the same....But then there's all the stupid ass shit that they always have to change or screw up from the comic for no good reason at all! For instance, when the hell did Black Canary get telepathy!?and what is this with Bruce Wayne/Batman disappearing after Catwoman is killed!? How can you kill off Catwoman or make Batman quit b/c he is heartbroken or whatever!? Bullshit, he would go out there and find the killer and kick his ass...he'd be more dedicated than ever! Or Huntress being "raised" by Oracle!? What's with this crap? And what about Dick Greyson (you know, formerly Robin, currently Nightwing)? Or Tim Drake (current Robin)? I dont know about this series based on a Batman spin-off comic (which is a very good comic, mind you) where Batman doesnt even freakin come out!.......I'm with the guy that says they should have made a Batman: Year One kinda thing that takes place before he gets the costume and shit, like during his years of training. That would be cool like Smallville (as long as there are no weekly Krypto-villains, of course)........oh well, i guess the show would be worth watching if we actually get to see Nightwing, Robin, Batman, or any of the big classic Bat-villains make an appearance at any point.....Well, there're my two cents on the subject....more like two bucks! SNOOGANS!
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Brian Robbins? The "cool" guy from Head of the Class? Cause he was definitely the guy that made Goodburger. Who's his partner Tollin? The nerdy girl with the braces and glasses? When's this show supposed to premiere? After growing up a comics fan but now being several years out of the loop, I have some questions. In what form did this premise appear previously? Was it just a storyline in one character's title? Was it a mini-series or graphic novel called Birds of Prey? Are Batman & Joker dead in this series, or just in hiding? And finally, can anyone tell me why Superman tore off Green Arrow's arm?!?
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Warner Bros are probably testing the water with Batman fans, fearing that nothing will be forgiven the camp corpse of:'Batman and Robin' . If one 'ounce' of humour shifts it in that direction... they can kiss the whole toy-advert franchise goodbye. Personally, I hope they bypass the hillarious 'post-irony wit' established and dating rapidly, by other genre shows and give us something that reflects upon the quality of the comics.
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I really enjoy the comic, this new re-imagining though...What they need is to have Dick Grayson dating Oracle, Blue Beetle hanging around, and Huntress...I haven't decided. In the comics, Power Girl is Oracle's ace in the hole. For those comic virgins, Power Girl is like a female Superman, kind of. She's not related to him, but she's strong, invulnerable(Nearly)and can fly. I'd like to see the mute Batgirl in the series. And Batman would totally not run away, or go into hiding, he would stay in his town fighting crime. The show sounds intriguing though. Bringing in Blue Beetle would be cool. And give Dinah her Sonic scream!
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Nightwing is the perfect TV superhero/hunk and they aren't even bothering with him? Let me guess, he's a sweeps stunt waiting to happen. And they're setting it in the world of Batman, but AFTER Batman and Catwoman are out of the picture? Why? Or are they being saved for when the show REALLY needs a ratings stunt. It's not the idea that stinks(well, in this case it IS the idea) but the execution makes all the difference with super hero shows. The father/son stuff on Smallville has been so effective that it made a lot of fans forgive(or forget) that the show was approached as a hackneyed monster of the week style Buffy/Roswell replacement that isn't going to work if they don't drop their repetitive formula by the end of the first season. Lois and Clark was--how shall I put this--odious crap that just goes to prove that a little moonlighting and attractive leads can get anything hyped. They had exactly one good episode in which Clarka and Lois went to Smallville--hey, that place again--while a corrupt mercenary unearths the show's first piece of kryptonite and discovers Clark's secret identity(naturally, it was the first episode I saw, tricking me into watching for a while). The sad thing is that when a decent superhero series comes along it often gets no respect like CBS's The Flash. It was well done, and could have found an audience if it had been given a good consistant time slot. In the end, I don't think the super hero genre is one that TV has figured out how to market properly, and that's the big picture for the guys putting down the money. But even with TV's emphasis on marketing instead of quality, I have to believe there's someone out there with talent who could have made this Birds of Prey thing work and not sound like a hopeless melding of Charmed and Smallville. Of course that sells, and the alternative could be as bad as Nightman. I'm glad it's not my problem, all I have to do is not watch.
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Thank you Supermonkey for providing The Huntress origin, both original and the crappy post-Crisis. (Lord almighty was THAT a bad storyline) And Speaking of bad storylines - this "Princess X" is 3-for-3. All of the TV reviews for new shows are for shows that - to put it mildly - SUCK!!!!!!!! Dina, Dina, Dina, Dina, we were willing to forgive you for "Johnny Mnemonic," "Starship Troopers," and "90210." Really, we were. Black Canary as a telepathic teenager? Huntress as a rebelious teen? A parapalegic teaching someone the finer points of unarmed combat and self-defense? Those Sparring sessions would have been interesting to watch - NOT! BEFORE the flames start, I am not attacking everyone in a wheelchair, nor am I saying that parapalegics are totally useless and incapable of doing anything. My point is that you cannot teach someone any kind of unarmed combat skills if you are sitting in a chair and cannot demonstrate them.... Of course, that would be a perfect excuse to introduce Nightwing or the Tim Drake Robin. ***** As for why Superman pulled off Green Arrow's Arm in The Dark Knight Returns, its really simple. In that storyline, too many special interest groups and parents' groups put pressure on Congress to curtail the activities of costumed vigilantes. Superman Agreed to become the ULTIMATE federal agent yes-man. He took off Green Arrow's Arm as a message to the others (and as a test of his loyalty) because the federal government would not persecute costumed superheroes so long as they were under Government control. Wonder Woman returned to her people, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) went back to the stars, The Martian Manhunter went to his planet (what was left of it), and Bruce Wayne Retired - his disappearance sending The Joker into catatonia. I could Never Understand Why Hal Jordan didn't bitch-slap superman into submission, or laugh at the governmental demands, because he was the guardian for this galactic SECTOR. ANYWAY, this show still sounds like it sucks.
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Origin of Huntress POST-crisis is
way more interesting than the SILLY Batman/Catwoman parentage.
Still hope this one works out,
but the whole Harley Quinn cameo
sounds so...pointless. Guess
she will be the first 'big bad.'
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Feb 16, 2002 12:37:50 PM CST
"Teen-angst" is the WB network's bread and butter, but the b
by voice o. reason
Oracle raising Huntress in Wayne Manor after Batman disappeared? I think we should all keep in mind that there always need to be concessions made for people unfamiliar with the comics' long history. Given that, their version of the origin of the Huntress makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, it also is very CLICHED. The inclusion of Black Canary, DC's BEST FEMALE SUPER-HERO EVER (besides MAYBE Wonder Woman...because neither one of whom are just a rip-off of a male couter-part, i.e. Supergirl, Hawkgirl, Batgirl, Aqualgirl, Jade, etc.), as a "Teen psychic" is going way too far. "Teen-angst" is the WB network's bread and butter, but the bread has mold and the butter is past its expiration date.
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anybody else agree? sure, its pretty gorry and gritty but not as much as anything else you see on more "adult" TV fare.
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Maybe Princess X was being sarcastic. I think the review would've made more sense from someone already familiar with "Birds of Prey", but you gotta take what you can get.
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that's it, i quit (although i will be checking out the Terry Moore-scripted Birds of Prey comic book, which will be populated by actual female characters and not feminist-endorsed female representation).
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So now they've gone from toning down/reworking ,superhero costumes ..until theyre unrecognisable and boring{X Men, tomb Raider , Witchblade}.To NOT actually having the f***ing superhero costumes at all!???.This is a new and disturbing trend.When HarleyQuin, makes her supposed guest appearance in this ..Is she going to be in costume?If not , what's the point of that? Her character IS 90 percent costume !Without the clown girl look , theres nothing left.It's like DC telling us that *Friends* was actually an adaptation of the Justice League of America..but they didn't use the costumes, characters or plots????
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Feb 16, 2002 3:00:37 PM CST
Hate to sound all geek-like and all, but wasn't Huntress fro
by village idiot
Yeah, this show sounds godawful. But then again, so did Smallville, and it turned out to be not that bad. The trouble we have now is that we don't just have the creators of Smallville on this deal, we have the CONFIDENT creators of Smallville on this show. Make of that what you will. Of course, when ever we hear about these adaptions, somebody in the production always gives the same quote to the press: "I LOVE the comics, the comics are great, I'm a HUGE fan. But you have to make some concessions to appeal to a wider audience when you tranfer it to another medium." Yeah, ok.*****And I remember the The Flash TV show. One second I was hearing a story on Entertainment Tonight about how it was renewed, the next second it was cancelled. Not a bad show, definitely better than Lois and Clark. I thought the costume looked great. A little more budget and the show would've been even better.
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Feb 16, 2002 3:18:51 PM CST
You liked "The Flash" series? Then you have a look at "Mutant X
by hercules
Same writers on both superhero shows.
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I realize that the alienated teeny bopper schtick is what put the WB on the map, but doesn't anyone else thnk that it's high time the network grew up? Unless this thing is being written by Joss Whedon, I have no desire to see it.
Why go through all the troble of securing the rights to this concept if you are going to screw with it so it is unrecognizable?
I don't want to see Dinah Lance as a petulant teen, I want to see her as she is portrayed in the comic: A veteran, mature crime fighter, trying to find a purpose in life after living under the shadow of her former lover, a superhero legend.
I don't want to see the lame-ass pre crisis origin of the Huntress reanimated. I want to see Helena Bertinelli, scion of the Bertinelli crime family and schoolteacher, drawn to vigilantism by a fierce sense of justice and a taste for adventure.
I want to see Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, Bullock and Montoya, Jean Paul Valley, Blue Beatle, the Question and all the other cool characters that make the current Gotham City so fascinating.
Why don't the creators of this show just create their own universe instead pillaging Batman's current continity?` -
Feb 16, 2002 5:51:02 PM CST
Admitting that I liked The Flash isn't quite as shocking as
by village idiot
But really, when it's 1991 and you're on your break at Blockbuster Video, what else are you going to watch?******But I have seen pieces of Mutant X and and besides marvelling at fact that Andy Warhol was just as evil as I always knew he was, I'm reminded of what a good actor John Shea is, and how he should be able to get a better gig than a schlocky science fiction TV show. Wow, it's a long way since "Windy City," huh?******Anyway, the last epsiode I saw of The Flash had Mark Hamill as The Trickster. I look upon any superhero tv show that has a bona fide supervillain (unlike The Incredible Hulk, or The Six Million Dollar Man, or The Amazing Spider-Man, etc.) as progress. And if The Flash had coninued down that path, it at least would have been interesting.
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http://gothamclocktower.com/
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those Hulk movies with Daredevil and Thor in them. Well, at least it had costumes. Let me get this straight: The Huntress runs around fighting crime with no disguise so anyone can recognize her, Oracle and the gang are based in Wayne Manor so much for Batman's secret identity assuming he even had a costume; Black Canary has some Dead Zone ripoff power but no sonic scream so why call her Black Canary and Batman just up and left? Pathetic. (Batman would not just leave: he'd have to be dead or near dead to be gone. Maybe he's just in therapy.)
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Dina Meyer as Oracle/Barbara Gordon/Batgirl is one good thing going for this.
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I found myself rereading passages of this review two and even three times trying to make sense out of it. I guess that's just one of the downsides of the internet. Any old slob off the street can put their two cents in, even if what they have to say is almost totally incomprehensible.
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Feb 16, 2002 8:15:37 PM CST
Brimstone died due to poor advertizing, poor handling from FOX
by swithin
Otherwise, the show hit the perfect balance of minimalist super-heroism and humor. It had a perfect, poetic touch, humor and irony coupled with humanity and the disappointment of the species... and above all, faith. Not in gods and monsters, but that the bonds we make and the loves we live truly do belong to us, that our care and concern can be more than just a selfish thing. This is what a 'super-hero' show should be all about! Anyone who actually SAW the show (thanks a LOT, FOX!) before it was cancelled after 13 critic/fan lauded episodes could tell you this. It didn't take itself too seriously, what it did that might have gotten your goat was to take YOU, the VIEWER, seriously. Birds of Prey could learn a lot from Brimstone... and quite honestly, I believe the premature death of this show scared other writers away from creating such 'intelligent', 'witty', and 'intimidating' shows since. Birds of Prey sounds too loony, too cliche, too EXPECTED. The characters SHOULD take themselves seriously, just not if their lives are in fact HILARIOUSLY CORNY. That's the problem. Peace out.
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Banshee said it right in an earlier post and nailed it 100%. These idiots at Warner Bros. are putting this together...looking at SMALLVILLE...and have just decided to copy it, only this time with hot chicks thinking THAT will be enough of a lure for viewers (hey, I love Dina Meyers. Now THERE'S a hottie!) But worst of all, these jerks at Warner Bros. are thinking "No one will takes a superhero costume seriously anymore, it can't be done." But then on the opening weekend for SPIDER-MAN, when it's printing it's own mint, they're going to be running around the studio lot screaming their heads off and saying "Why didn't someone tell us people liked heros in costumes!" Dolts. Can't they see that people will accept costumes (the original SUPERMAN and BATMAN movies) or at least some cool type of "battle uniform" (more recently, X-MEN) to give the characters some sort of immediate visual identity? People will buy it, just don't have them running around in costume in a shitty story (BATMAN AND ROBIN). The idea that that everyone runs around in ordinary street clothes in BIRDS OF PREY with no masks, not even trying to hide their identities, simply makes this another P.I. show, frankly. All this show boils down to is Nancy Drew working with freakin' Ironside or something. This sounds lame right from the outset. You know, who the hell gets these studio jobs? Can I get in on this? I could use a great job where I make good money for making asinine decisions that have no creative thinking behind them. Helloooo? Warner Bros.? Where do I apply???
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Feb 16, 2002 11:05:09 PM CST
Black Canary doesn't need a costume to be Black Canary...
by voice o. reason
...unfortunately the character described in the spoilers wasn't Black Canary. Even without the "canary cry" she still kicks ass (she didn't have it for a long time in the comics), but she was still a martial-artist. Huntress could also probably get away with no costume, but if we're living in Gotham City, why not wear one? I'd love to see them try to work Oliver Queen into the show, but only as an adult.
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The idea that the Huntress is Batman and Catwoman's daughter is from the Golden Age Earth-2. Barbara being shot is of course part of the current continuity.
Someone mentioned Power Girl and the fact she is not related to Superman. That's true for the current post-Crisis DC Universe. However, in the pre-Crisis continuity, she was the Earth-2 version of the Earth-1 Supergirl. So Power Girl was the cousin of the Earth-2 Superman. -
But I'm a big comicbook nerd, so what do I know. Haha. Seriously, it definitely has potential, and I think throwing in a lot of fanboy references is great news. Hopefully, it'll have enough sex, action and wit to attract a mainstream audience. The WB seems to be turning into a decent alternative network...bravo.
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Dammit, why do they have to Charmed-up the Birds. Dinah with psychic flashbacks. Non costumed heroines. Everything leads back to a crime spree from a maniac who will never make an appearance in the series, let alone the fact that there's no way the Batman will make an appearance either. The problem with the entire concept of a BIrds of Prey series is that the characters are too caught up in another major character's continuity. Dinah is just not Dinah Lance without her ties to Green Arrow. Oracle and the Huntress are not the same without ties to the Bat-family. Why not form a series about a self contained hero like Starman or a bizzare western series focussing on Jonah Hex? Why water down characters that are hip deep in continuity that they need extended pilots to somehow fit them all into some convoluted story? I understand that if we just had a crippled girl telling a couple of powerless chicks how to cross the street, it might be similar to other T&A/espionage series like VIP. SO why do it in the first place. And if WB wants to do it, why throw in a fear maker and not call him the Scarecrow? Why throw in a pissed off psychologist in the third act and call her Harley, even though she has no ties to the Joker? A running theme in the Birds comic is that these girls are powerless, but often find themselves in situations that are waaaay over their heads. Giving Black Canary psychic powers and keeping them out of costumes defeats the purpose. This seems like an enormous waste of time. I might be tempted to watch the show if Blue Beetle shows up in some form, but there's no way he'll show up in costume. They'll probably cast him as some nerdy super hacker, with stereotypical thick glasses and pocket protecter. Yawn. Maybe I'll have something intelligent to say tomorrow when I'm sober. G'night all.
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I agree with pretty much all of your sentiments here. With a character like Superman who's already survived so many differing takes -- from the comics to TV to cartoons to radio to movies -- I can accept a show like SMALLVILLE as just "one more take on the legend." But BIRDS OF PREY? Waaaay the hell too specific. And y'know, it seems like there should be at least one good *Batman* movie before they start giving shows to all his cronies. But, alas, Burton's solid little effort was too much of a Burton film to really build upon, and Schumacher's riffs...well...they had a different kind of feel too, eh? I wonder if Batman might work better as a high-budget TV show? The films are always compelled to tell the tales of his BIG ADVENTURES, but a TV show could show big and small adventures, flashbacks to his training, character-driven episodes, etc., etc. You'd need a good dose of money to design the Batcave and his Batmobile, but beyond that, while the show wouldn't be el cheapo, I don't think it'd be *too* expensive. Thoughts?
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Comic genre entertainment properties must be a goldmine. Why else would we be seeing so much of them? Take almost any comic character to draw the "built-in" (i.e., us), remove the more fantastic elements like the costumes to draw the wider "18-34." That said, Birds of Prey is NOT too specific at all. It's main utility, beyond being a comic property, is that it features women. Again, built in audience for genre fans, and enough restructuring for the general audience willing to give something with the name Batman on it a try.*****What I've never been able to understand is why WITCHBLADE got the "serious" treatment. I would have thought the story with the cheesecake elements intact would have sold like a mother, like a superhero Baywatch. It's on cable even! Go figure.*****Meanwhile, although a Batman televison show might be feasible from a technical standpoint, so would my marriage to Jennifer Love Hewitt. And like my marriage to Jennifer Love Hewitt, it will never happen. Why? Why shell out for an iffy on-going series that sounds expensive when whatever movie is made becomes an automatic "tentpole" movie with guaranteed revenues. Let's not forget, even Batman and Robin made over $100 mil.
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I always thought myself that
BATMAN should be done as a series
of some sort. Maybe TV movies, mini-series etc. While movies have some strengths series have others such as building more interesting characters with big and small stories as was mentioned in the post by Cormorant. I still don't feel the true Batman has been caught on the screen. Although I have to say I still enjoy the Adam West Batman show for what it was.
As for BIRD OF PREY I have never
read the comic so I have no real
comment. From the review it sounds
not so good. I know of the characters from other comics in the past and that is not the Black Canary as descibed. As for costumes why not have them, they can be adjusted for live broadcast use. It is interesting characters in some movies have taken on guys with guns without wearing armoured suites so why should Bats in the films wear such an awkward suit? I
thought he was a well trained fighter? Oh well seems like the film/tv creaters have to make changes to be happy. Sorry I keep thinking of the Green Goblin from the new SPIDEY film. Adios
I am beaming up! -
Hmmmm...seems to me that there was a very successful TV show called the Batman Animated series that brought a lot of dough in for WB. This is definitely nothing like the comic book...Oh well. Face it geeks. We are in a minority. We always have been.
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The thing is, TV shows can have big revenues too. I know zilch about the TV industry, but surely hit shows like FRIENDS or SEINFELD or BUFFY rake in tens of millions a year, right? Cumulatively, isn't that at least going to be comparable, or perhaps even in excess of what Warner Brothers derives from a Batman movie that might come out every three or four years? Besides, with genre shows like BUFFY and ENTERPRISE and SMALLVILLE selling so well, would a live-action Batman series really be so "iffy"? And wouldn't the high production values of the show pay off when they began merchandizing the crap out of it? I think it could happen, I think it could be good, and I think it could make the suits a pretty penny. 'Fraid your plans for Jennifer Love are outta the question though. Back to the world of stalking and restraining orders...
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...especially since the Oliver Queen Green Arrow hasn't made ONE appearance in the "Birds of Prey" comics (he's been dead for most of its run). In fact, according to the current continuity, she didn't even MEET Green Arrow until she'd been in the Justice League for a while. I'd like to also remind everyone that the Barbara Gordon Batgirl was CREATED for the 60's "Batman" TV show. As Oracle, Barbara dosn't wear a costume. Canary's "costume" doesn't even look like a costume the way Batman or Flash's costumes do, its more of a dull-green/grey body suit. This show CAN work, damn it.
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So! Not only do you see fit to refute my argument, you also find it necessary to trample on something so beautiful as my love for Jennifer. Have you no sense of decency sir? At long last, have you no sense of decency? ***** Actually, forget that, the real question is: Which is ultimately more profitable, a successful TV series or a successful movie? For comaprison's sake, let's take Smallville vs Batman and Robin. Now I'm only speculating here and I'm sure that there are some people in the home audience that may have a better perspective on this (in which case I will gladly stand corrected), but although Smallville gets wonderful ad revenues and can be resold into syndication, etc., pieces of that pie have to be cut out and given to a lot of players: the studio, the producers, the network, etc. Moreover, epsidoes of a TV series have to be continually made again and again. Batman and Robin, on the other hand, costs more. But if it's a big enough hit, all the money will come back to the studio. And I haven't even gotten into foreign distribution and video sales. All for making ONE product. Of course, there may be something I'm missing here, and I'm sure someone will be more than happy to point it out. But I was under the impression that the whole reason why the WB nixed the Young Bruce Wayne idea is because they thought the movie franchise still had some gas; and as long as that cow is still standing, they're milking her, baby.
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Seems WB is making the same mistake marvel did when X-men came out. After the movie opened, people went looking for the comic and didn't recognise the characters at all. That's one of the reasons Joe Quesada was brought in to head Marvel and why they are not going to make the same mistake with Spider-man or Blade.___"So. They could just make a new BOP comic following the characters from the show." Yeah, they could...except there's already a book with hot chicks running around in leather fighting crime, it's called Danger Girl.___As some have pointed out above, Black Canary's costume is basically a stylish wet-suit, she's never worn a mask. Fine. But we won't even get that. And the Huntress DOES have a costume. And a pretty cool one at that. Ditto Harly Quinn, Nightwing, Power girl, Blue Beetle, hell Batman HIMSELF wears a costume. If the producers can't pull off costumes then why make the show at all? Costumes can look cool if done right. But the producers either don't have the balls or the talent to pull them off successfully. Sad.___Actually, this whole concept is so different from the source material that they don't even have to call it Birds of Prey. They should re-name it "The Charming VIP's of East Gotham." -
BOP sounds like a pile of crap. I see no need to destroy classic characters for the sake of a TV show that MIGHT run for two seasons, and in the end will simply tarnish the characters. The Flash was good...as for watching Mutant X because the same writers are involved, they were also involved with Viper and a bigger pile of crap I have never seen. Besides Chaykin writes good comics, that doesn't necessarily translate to film...as a side not see Robocop 3 by Miller...and aside from The Flash name another really good live action TV series based on comics. The old Batman was not bad, and it is nostalgic for a number of reasons, but it really wasn't even good, just okay. Nightman blew, as did Lois And Clark, and while I haven't watched Smallville, I can't imagine Clark's Creek is all that. BOP might work if the characters were treated with respect, but aside from maybe Oracle, they don't sound like they are. I have no problem with an Earth2 pre-Crisis version of The Huntress, but she should be fulfilling the legacy of her parents out of a want or desire or legacy or something, not because Oracle tells her to. Plus, she should have been trained by her parents since day one, and would have been, just in case. As for the criticisms that say Batman would not go away or retire...he did in both Dark Knight Returns and in Batman Beyond and both are considered to be quite good by fans. If the loss of Catwoman were to be the final straw, then yes I could see him snapping and going away. Or maybe someone took him down after he snapped. There are possibilities to a show or concept that says Batman went away, but there are no possibilities to a show or concept that destroys the characters in an attempt to reach a demographic that is fickle and will turn at the slightest whim. BOP...POC.
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Have David Lynch produce it man. Hex is pretty cool. A whacked out western, good idea! I miss Brisco COunty Junior, though that was more of a sci-fi/comedic/ironic western with a great cast and storyline.
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Is it just me? I thought comics creators (comics for television and film too) had gotten over the need to hurt women every chance they got, and putting them in constant peril. Oh, good. That means little kids are next. And speaking of comics, it it just me or did DK2 issue 2 blow corn-flecked chunks of crap all over the place? Issue 1 wasn't high art, especially with Lynn Varley's 10-year-old version of Photoshop, but #2 really screwed the pooch. I think.
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This is comic book compost. Why don't they just make up new characters?! Create an original series? Name recognition, the WB bastards. Name-drop Batman, and you have an instant audience or general curiosity. This version of Helena is DEAD (brought back for the sole purpose of Batman name-recogintion, marketing tools)in the comic books, and what in the hell is wrong with Birds of Prey in comics? It would make a fun series. Oh, NO TEENAGERS. Does EVERY WB series have to be about/feature teenagers and all their "angst"? I really wish WB didn't own the rights to DC Comics. They're just going to continue to bastardize the characters for CASH. They don't give a shit about the characters -just read a version of Superman Lives! or the treatment for the proposed Wonder Woman film. They just want to dumb them down, so they're ingestible to the masses. So they can make bank off a toy. More marketing genius from the WB. The studio where artistic integrity is a bad word.
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Well, I'm sober and ready to continue my rant. As for the fact that Dinah not being Dinah w/o Ollie. I have to blame that one on that last shot o' whiskey. Dinah has in fact come into her own in the last few years and doesn't need that bowslinger around to be a complete character. I do stand firmly behind the rest of my slurred rant though. Much like the inclusion of John Stewart as the Green Lantern in JLA, incorporating Earth-2 Huntress in the mix is just a bad idea, and I'll tell you why. Recently, after watching an episode of the JLA cartoon with a friend, my friend wanted to read one of my Green Lantern comics. As she flipped through the book, she said with confusion in her voice, "Hey, I thought GL was black." SO I had to explain the whole story. And she was left confused and pretty uninterested in the comic after that. Barring that my explanation was the source of disinterest, I think this is a perfect example of how WB is screwing up. WB's goal here is to get $$$, right? The comics are the source material. In a perfect WB world, people will see the latest BAtman flick or the JLA cartoon or the new Birds TV series and be so entertained that they want to pick up the comic. So what happens when they do this? Well, they are smacked in the face with characters that they do not recognize, continuity glitches, and changes in the name of political correctness, and a potential new collector is lost. This argument can be applied to just about any comic to film adaptation and I think it works. The Huntress is a pretty interesting character on her own, without being related to Batman. Canary is pretty cool as well without psychic powers. Babs Gordon can (pardon the pun) stand on her own two legs without Bats. I understand that changes must be made to make the four colored heroes come to life on TV and film. But giving Dinah psychic powers is pretty unnecessary. If they want to save moolah and make the series more believable, I can understand using those Canary Cry bombs from the early issues of BOP instead of giving Dinah a super-voice. Dinah's costume is just skin tight leather which would be yum-ilicious on the right actress. Babs would be easy, no costume there. The Huntress can lose the cape and still be pretty cool. Making the costumes look functional to the task at hand is a good idea and is often used in the comics. Keep the mystical/psychic stuff at a minimum. Let the girls stand on their own, they are strong enough without ties to the Bat-mythos. I agree with COrmorant, without a strong Batman film or TV series a a backdrop, setting BOP up in GOtham is just going to clutter up the works. Bring on the Gotham TV series. Shelve BOP as a spinoff of that series. Flesh out Bruce Wayne and Co. first. Finally, on a different note, there aren't enough good Westerns out there. Jonah Hex has always been a favorite of mine. Lansdale's treatment of the character in recent Vertigo mini series has used equal elements of the spagetti westerns, Jodorovsky's films (especially El Topo), and even David Lynchian lunacy. A TV series featuring these elements would be the super stuff that make up my fanboy dreams, and I for one would love to see a project along those lines. Ditto for a Starman series. Robinson created a great self contained series. He took an obscure town and hero and made an epic adventure series. Want a hero tale with no strings attatched, WB? Go with Jack Knight and Co. Hell, even an Aztek or MAjor Bummer series would be new and different. But now I'm dreaming. I'm hungry now. Bug out.
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Are you smoking crack when you say that DKSB #2 blew chunks?? It's one of the best comics I've read in a long time! Superman shagging Wonder Woman and making the earth literally move! The classic heroes coming back under the leadership of the Dark Knight! It was terrific. //// As for Birds of Brey, I'm just glad to see Barbara Gordon back in some semblance of comicbook continuity (in the wheel chair as the Oracle after her Batgirl career got destroyed by the Joker). Maybe Warner Bros. have learned from the travesty that was Joel Shumacher's / Akiva Goldsmith's BATMAN AND ROBIN ("Batgirl = Barbara WILSON, Alfred's niece????") I say, bring it on. After the success of Smallville, we should be rooting for Birds of Prey to turn into a hit. Yes, LET Warner Bros. dive into their DC Comics properties and adapt MORE superhero franchises -- as long as it's done right. Hell, I'd love to see a Nightwing series, or a young Bruce Wayne show, or dare I say GREEN ARROW! Maybe UPN can make a deal with Marvel or Artesan to bring some of THEIR characters to the tube. Heck, I'll enjoy that much better than some of the current tripe that's on the air from the major networks.
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Feb 17, 2002 8:32:25 PM CST
People who want to write shows based on comics should have to re
by thesabresmith
Ok i think i remember where they might have gotten that Huntress was Batman/Catwomans daughter... i think that was the old huntress strip from Wonder Woman? Sorry if someone already said that but i skipped the end of the review and all of the talk back.
BUT... THATS NO EXCUSE! Do you know why smallville is a hit? because it's good. it is well written and a very interesting idea. That is what all TV shows should be... i only read the first few paragraphs of this review before i was forced to stop, this show sounds crap. I am a HUGE Batman fan, i have thousands of batman comics, coving Huntress, Nightwing, Robin, Azrael, Ragman, and Birds of prey... I LOVE the Batman universe, please dont let the guy who wrote SCREAM 3 (for Christ's sake!) piss on Batman!?!?! I would love to see a Batman TV show, i can't wait for Bruce Wayne to show up in Smallville! but dont rush it and mess it up just to get in on the screen... think about what you're doing!?!?!
Anyway... i go now...
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The Simpsons in TORONTO!!!!! WOOOHOO!! To bad I missed them when they came to shoot :-(.. Anyway, give it up for the foreign war dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!
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"...except there's already a book with hot chicks running around in leather fighting crime, it's called Danger Girl."...... and as that only comes out once a year, I don't think there's any danger of anyone actually seeing one.tying the series to Batman makes it that much more interesting and saves the big guns for the big screen.the way it's set up,they can introduce other characters later and maybe do a nightwing spin off like angel from buffy. I like the old Huntress why better than the Mafia princess/school teacher.if the story is set after Batman than it makes perfect sense to have huntress be his daughter.I was confused by the switching of Black Canary with Huntress, but if it's old Huntress it makes sense to me.also, there's no mention that Jokers dead. that could be the reason behind Harley's inclusion. she's still working with him.and if he's in the pilot they can use him again. and it says"working out of Wayne manor" not the batcave. a lot of people on talk back seem to be answering to other talk backers assumptions and not the actual article. it never said everyone knows who Batman was. and I can't find were it says no costumes.all in all it sounds good to me ( well not BC's psychic powers and Huntress's bitching.) .and,", it it just me or did DK2 issue 2 blow corn-flecked chunks of crap all over the place? Issue 1 wasn't high art, especially with Lynn Varley's 10-year-old version of Photoshop, but #2 really screwed the pooch. I think."Amen brother.Amen. and to,"Are you smoking crack when you say that DKSB #2 blew chunks?? It's one of the best comics I've read in a long time! Superman shagging Wonder Woman and making the earth literally move! The classic heroes coming back under the leadership of the Dark Knight! It was terrific. //// " I was unaware that they printed a brail version.
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I don't read BoP, trying to limit my comic intake... but what I know of Dinah (and maybe it's changed in recent years) is she's NOT a natural blonde! She's brunette, and the blonde wig is her "mask", like Supes wearing glasses as Clark.
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There's a lot more to Superman's secret identity than putting on a pair of hornrim glasses. For starters, he has to seriously alter the composition of his entire body. He has to decrease his bone mass, compress his muscle structure, alter his vocal chords, and rearrange the soft tissue of his face. And once he gets small enough to fit into one of Clark Kent's JC Pennys suits, he has to lighten his overall body density, so someone who trips and falls into him doesn't crush their skull on him. Nope. The glasses are only the beginning.
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Good one. LOL. I still think Frank Miller has written another great story though. That's just my opinion. Long live the Dark Knight!
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I just had to get that out.
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Please, fer da luvva god, tell me that the Superman funnybooks didn't actually go to such absurd lengths to justify why nobody can figure out the Clark Kent/Superman connection! Ye gods! The glasses and the switch in personality is plenty enough. Anyone who needs more explanation than that shouldn't be reading stories that feature the likes of Bizarro, Mxyzptlk, and Streaky the Super-Cat ;-)
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Don't worry, Cormorant. The writers in the Superman comics never went to the extremes that I described, although they should have. I just wonder what the folks in Smallville are going to think the first time they see a picture of Superman. "Hmmm, that looks a lot like young Clark Kent, except in the way he combs his hair, that is. It it weren't for that, they'd be twins." I was always more of a Marvel man, but I think that Smallville is better than any regular DC comic series ever printed. Sure there's plenty of cheese, but that's one of the secret ingredients of a good comic book.
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Marvel's generally taken a real-world approach to their superheroes, which, when taken to extremes, includes those ridiculous attempts to scientifically justify powers in the old MARVEL UNIVERSE handbooks. Comes across as sillier than the powers themselves. DC's characters have been becoming more and more Marvel-like over the past few decades -- sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse -- but I'd really prefer the company at least adhere to the tradition of not worrying about the whys and wherefores of superpowers, secret identities, and the like. You don't have to know how Superman's x-ray vision works or whether his flying is caused by telekinesis or why his footsteps don't make craters in the ground if his molecular structure is super-dense. There's some fun fannish speculation to be had in toying with these ideas, but as I see it, any such questions are irrelevant to the comic itself. They're all answered by the concept of suspension of disbelief. You buy into them so you can enjoy Superman's cool adventures, and it's about as simple as that. ******* As for the Smallville folks recognizing Superman...it's a fairly easy question to sidestep if you assume that the last they see of Clark is when he's in his late teens (those college years of his are always kinda nebulous, but I think he usually leaves Smallville) and Superman doesn't make his first appearance until Clark's probably in his, what, mid-20's? That's plenty enough time Clark to fill out a bit and go from being the boy they remember to a man. Factor in the glasses he adopts at some point along the road, the different hairstyles between Clark and Supes, and the fact that he carries himself completely differently in the two different roles, and I think you've got the makings of a pretty decent disguise. Good enough for a superhero comic, anyway! If you think about it, the fact that Superman doesn't wear a mask or try and disguise his identity is actually a clever psychological trick -- most of the public would probably assume that any hero so open with revealing his features doesn't even *have* a secret identity! They probably figure he's Superman 24-7. *****Now...when John Byrne revamped Clark Kent into a more confident, self-assured guy in his excellent MAN OF STEEL miniseries, it required a *little* more suspension of disbelief to buy that no one would ever connect him with Superman. But in the nearly fifty years of Superman stories prior, Clark carried himself as a really meek goofball, and I can almost believe that disguise would work. That's the version Christopher Reeve pulled off in the movies, and a damn fine job he did of it too. Behold -- goofy Clark: http://www.deceptions.net/superman/gallery/images/sman36.jpg ...and the "don't fuck with me" Superman: http://www.deceptions.net/superman/gallery/images/sman42.jpg I buy it. ***** By the way, nothin' against SMALLVILLE -- I kinda dig it too -- but no *way* is it superior to the best stuff DC has printed! Methinks you need to sample some more DC titles. Check out the MAN OF STEEL trade paperback, BATMAN:YEAR ONE, STARMAN, THE GOLDEN AGE, the current FLASH or JSA, Grant Morrison's early JLA run, or the BATMAN: NO MAN'S LAND trades. S'all good stuff. Now if you were talking about the Chris Reeve movie or the WB animated series, I'd say, "Yeah, as good as the best the comics have ever done"...but SMALLVILLE? Naw, man! That's gotta be the hooch talkin'. That or hormones raging for Lana and Chloe. And nothin' I can say will overcome *that* argument.
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Feb 18, 2002 5:34:41 AM CST
Well, yippee-ki-yay, the Talkback order fucked-up just in time f
by dave_f
So who knows where *this* post will appear? But anyway, Fred4sure, my lengthy response to you appears at the top of the Talkback now, courtesy of Harry's shit-o Talkback coding. Enjoy!
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For quality superhero television they should just release the long-lost JLA pilot from the mid-nineties. Or better yet, the Challenge of the Superheroes/Superheroes' Roast specials from the seventies. If you guys want your spandex set to appear in costume, those are your shows! sk
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Feb 18, 2002 11:31:42 AM CST
Why do 90% of all Talkbacks turn into discussions on...
by voice o. reason
...Smallvile, Buffy, LoTR, or Alias? Are we obsessed or what?
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Hey there.. I've actualy read the script for this show and she got some details wrong... the characters do NOT have their headquarters in Wayne Manor.. but in the Gotham Clock Tower... Wayne Manor is described in the script as being abandoned... the disappearance of Bruce Wayne is a mistery... my guess is he is off hunting Joker somewhere. And my impressions of the story where that it was pretty cool... The Huntress in the storyline is essentialy the current comics Black Canary crossed with the pre-crisis Huntress but she works ok.. Oracle is just like she is the comics and Black Canary is different and an obvious pander to the WB demographics but could still work.
Harley Quinn is never called by that name but her prescense could down the road lead to the reappearance of the joker.. perhaps she is fronting for him? The script leaves it vauge.. oh and their is a cool cameo in the draft i read by Alfred the butler... guess he is still hanging out at the empty wayne manor..
Give it a chance, could be a cool show. -
the part about no costumes came from Comics2news. Here's the quote: "The breakdown said there are no costumes or mask but instead "body armor, cutting-edge weapons [and] occassional metahuman powers."
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I've never read the comic - yes, heresy - but I do know that I will be tuning in to see if Ashley is as gorgeous in real life as she was a Jane the pleasure-bot in her 4 second A.I. appearance. They really ought to contact Spielberg to get rights to the "Jane" costume - but only if they want the show to consistently appear in the top 10.
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For the guy who asked: BOP started out as a series of one-shot that came out pretty much quarterly, it later became a monthly series, and it remains in that format today.
Now for a bunch of opinions:
Personally, I like the "no costume" thing: it gives the show a more real-world feel. However cool spandex is in comics, leather and plastic are just better onscreen.
Despite the fact that the "let's get Batman out of the picuture" thing sucks, I can see why they did it: the makers of the show probably don't have the rights to use Batman . . .
I, personally like having Harv without the Joker. She's a cool character who deserves to be shown in her own light: her book proves that. I really want to see how this show takes her relationship with Poison Ivy too, they make a really cool pair.
I hope to see the mute Batgirl, Power Girl, Nightwing, Robin, and Azreal (actually, I think that Axreal deserves his own show and Zatanna, one of my fave female characters. I'd also like to see a character based on the post-Crisis Huntress: she's just so much cooler.
In villians, I'm hoping for PI, Spellbinder (read "Birds of Prey: Batgirl" to see what she can bring to the show), and Blockbuster (HUNT FOR ORACLE!!) -
I thought this premise was far more interesting than the Smallville/Dawson's Creek "teens in pain" scenario. Bruce Wayne, travelling the globe, honing all of his future Dark Knight skills, accompanied by his loyal and mysterious butler Alfred, a former member of the British SS. Bruce Wayne, a character with an actual reason to be angsty - his parents were murdered in front of him. There's just much more room for character development here. Wayne learning all kinds of martial arts and philosophies to control his pain and rage and focus it to make his body and mind weapons. His mind beginning the compartmentalization that will eventually create Batman. The darkness inside of him, the emptiness at the vaccum his parents' deaths left. Alfred becoming a surrogate father, watching Bruce Wayne slowly begin to slip away from him, but a hero emerging at the same time. THAT is angst, not "Will Clark ever get to nail Lana?" If Smallville didn't have Lex Luthor, let's face it - it wouldn't be any good. Clark's origin story is basically a coming-of-age tale that is not (post-Crisis) depicted as being fraught with angst. Clark had things pretty good in Smallville, his destiny just outgrew it. Thus, WB throws Lex Luthor into the mix to spice it up. Altering continuity wouldn't have been necessary with Bruce Wayne. Although, I DO thank WB for Michael Rosenbaum. :)
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Dinah started out in BOP as a beautiful mess. I think a lot of women would've been able to identify with the character. Intelligent, capable fighter, witty...Dinah seems like she'd have it all together, but she still chooses bums! She's got stuck on Ollie-syndrome. Barbara on the other hand, is the flipside, living vicariously through the other woman, while playing soap-box psychologist to her. And they learn to trust each other, despite their differences, and become friends. The characters compliment one another, with their girl-talk banter being one of the highlights of the title in the first place. This version sounds way too serious for BOP, IMHO. Like they sucked all the fun out of it for their beloved teen angst. I'd think with the success of Alias, WB would attempt to do an action-adventure series with internationl intrigue.
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No angel review? I thought Herc liked the pylea episodes.
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The WB is becoming worth watching. And who knows, maybe if UPN can build on Buffy and Enterprise, the big four networks may finally start noticing and give us some interesting "fanboy" programming as well. :-)
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't necessarily think that the Smallville version of events is gonna follow the trajectory of the Superman story. What I thought WB had done was stopped the story in Smallville and riffed on it. Lex and Clark are pals, Lana isnt Lois. We don't know if Clark will head to Metropolis and don the blue tights or what. Surely thats what makes it a good show.
Cant really comment on BoP, but it doesn't sound that good to me.
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How stupid is that!? I can't beleive this! And I thought that Joker died in the first Batman movie...evidently they're ignoring that...busting continuity up again...plus, the Birds of Prey formed in the present, not the future...that's all messed up!! Talk about lousy writing! They need the costumes too, why do people nowadays think that costumes are so unhip...and what's wrong with capes? Can't be a superhero without a costume. Otherwise it's just gonna be another Mutant-X! This is not good. If any of you writers are out there...listen to me...don't waste time making a series for the future...you need to focus on things that are happening in the present...that are more important. I'm tired of watching continuity destroyed and I don't wanna see it happen again. Making Batman exile himself is not good...not good? Who am I kidding? It's down right horrible!! You can't do it!! I beg you not to do this...please please please please please!!! There's no need for this! You can still make a Birds Of Prey series without messing up the continuity of the last 4 bat movies. Plus...I think that someone should mention that Batman was just having a dream that he fought Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, and Bane...that way we'd know that the stupid "Batman & Robin" movie wasn't real. Don't make the show take place in the future, (There's no reason too) don't make Helena be Batman's daughter, don't make the villain in the flashback be Joker, (Make it be someone else, Joker already died in the live action Batman universe, unless you wanna go into some big "ressurection" storyline...BUT PLEASE DON'T!)
Don't make them wear regular clothes...make them wear costumes, don't make it all teenish, and FOR GOD SAKE DON'T GET RID OF BATMAN LIKE THAT!!
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