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HERC Reviews New BUFFY!!

Buffy 6.12 FAQ

What’s it called?

“Doublemeat Palace.”

Who’s responsible?

Teleplay is credited to Jane Espenson, co-author of this season’s second-best episode, “Life Serial.”

What does TV Guide say?

“In one of the season's strongest episodes, Buffy thinks she smells something rotten after she takes a job at a fast-food restaurant that soon has her wondering about the ‘secret ingredient’ in the burgers. Hurting for cash, the Slayer (Sarah Michelle Gellar) takes a job at Doublemeat Palace, where her fellow employees don't respond well to her sense of humor. ‘Levity is a time thief that picks the pocket of the company,’ explains one co-worker. But it's Buffy's growing concern that something demonic might be going on that really turns her stomach. Also, Anya's old friend Halfrek pays an unexpected visit and questions whether Xander (Nicholas Brendon) is the right man for her; and Willow (Alyson Hannigan) tries her best to stay away from magic.”

The big news?

The Willow-Amy friendship ends this week. Oh, and? Spike and Buffy do it in the manager’s office.

Have we met Halfrek before?

Don’t think so. But actress Kali Rocha played Cecily Addams last season in “Fool For Love.”

Is the slayer reduced to wearing a paper “trainee” hat?

More of a baseball cap with 3D representations of a cow head and a rooster tail sticking out of it.

Cow head and rooster tail?

Doublemeat Palace claims to sell sandwiches containing both beef and chicken patties.

Claims? So – ah ha! I mean, um, why only “claims”?

It turns out there’s very little beef in the sandwiches!

Again: ah ha! Is there a Soylent Green moment?

There is. And though you can see it coming up Fifth Avenue, it still amuses greatly.

Is Sunnydale the only municipality with a Doublemeat Palace?

No. In the Buffyverse it’s a chain that operates throughout California.

Is Willow back on the pipe?

She is. But it’s not her fault. Amy kind of slips Willow a magic mickey. If you will.

Does a gift from Amy force Willow to make a big decision?

The mickey is her gift. And it forces Willow to cut off contact with her ex-rat enabler.

Any sign of Tara or Fantastico?

Both sadly absent again this week.

Does Anya receive a visit from a vengeance demon friend?

That would be Halfrek.

Do Xander and Anya re-evaluate their relationship?

Not Xander so much, though Hallie’s physical appearance certainly gives him pause. Anya does the real re-evaluating, after Hallie keeps asking all sorts of questions about the groom-to-be.

Any sign of the Legion of Dim?

Warren, Andrew and Jonathan remain at large but unseen. We do learn that Buffy, between this episode and the last, raided their HQ and confiscated all their villainy tools of evil.

Is the warlock Rack back at all?


Is Dawnie healed up from her November “Wrecked” mishap?

She is sling-free. And seems far less pissed at Buffy and Willow this week.

Does anyone learn of all the Spike-Buffy sex?


What’s great?

Will’s descriptions of Nerd Central. The expression on the chicken’s face in the training video. Buffy’s face watching the training video. The cat theory. The conversation with Spike that reminds us of the last talk Humbert has with the grown-up Lolita. Buffy’s reaction to getting a Doublemeat double shift. Anya’s giddiness at recognizing Hallie. The Soylent scene. Anya’s line after Dawn explains they’re doing chemistry. The paralysis. How much better Willow’s hair looks at the very end. More things I will remember when I’m better rested.

What’s not so great?

The grill guy’s tales of hygiene will precipitate bad dreams.

How does it end, spoiler-boy?

Buffy gets a glimpse of the future.

Herc’s rating for “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” 6.12?


The Hercules T. Strong Rating System:

  • ***** better than we deserve
  • **** better than most motion pictures
  • *** actually worth your valuable time
  • ** as horrible as most stuff on TV
  • * makes you quietly pray for bulletins

I am – Hercules!!

To order boxer shorts adorned with the image of a green, handicapable “Buffy” fanatic, click here.

Readers Talkback
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  • Jan. 28, 2002, 6:14 a.m. CST

    Oh God they really have messed up Willow's storyline

    by spike fan

    Instead of an out of control Witch who is hooked on power we get a magic junkie who is being portrayed as a victim.uggh. They dropped a brilliant story line that had been building since S2 in favour of an after school special BtVS has really gone down hill in terms of adult storylines. And along with Marti's comments before hand about Spike being just plain and taking away his devolpment season has been really fucked up.## Both Joss/Marti and Fury are all to blame for this.Still at least there is Angel.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 6:16 a.m. CST

    Oh, Goodie! A Shiny New Board....

    by EricAlan69 fill with bickering, bitching, backstabbing, backslapping, bubbleheaded- Buffyness! WooHoo! Wildfire feed is obviously over, so Leoff's detailed blow-by-blow will be up within the hour.... go here to completely destroy any glimmer of surprise in viewing this episode: . I Warn You Not To Defy Tito! // e.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 6:29 a.m. CST

    Herc! What's wrong with your T key?

    by Duke Lacrosse

    First there was "represenations" of a cow and a rooster, then there was Tara & "Fantasico". Is that T key sticking? Probably from all the hours you've spent in cybersex chatrooms typing, "Time to touch my tender titties, tough guy..." I agree that they screwed up when it comes to Willow's long arc about her growing powers. It made so much sense to see how delighted she was when she could do cool stuff, and how reliant on she became, to the point that she would use magic, black magic even, to do things that could have been done without. As Giles and Spike have pointed out, there's always a nasty price to pay. Then in a flash, magic is a substance where you sneak off to the crackhouse and a pusher ties you off and pumps you full of it, then you stagger around slurring with a goofy grin and get into car accidents. Weak and stupid and way below the usually impeccable standards of this show. Blecch. Can we please just call that ship sailed and give Willow a new storyline?

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 6:36 a.m. CST

    Duke Lacrosse Is My New Hero....

    by EricAlan69

    because anyone as obsessed with spelling, correct grammatical usage-isms (ahem!), and perfectly peppy punctuation as I am must be a fine human being. Also, deranged. // e.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 8:44 a.m. CST

    'bout time....

    by thewoodpecker

    another week without any new eps and I would have lost it. The narrative this season is too weak to withstand all these extended breaks.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 9:57 a.m. CST

    Buffy, Gilmore Girls, or the Prez

    by Xocxoc

    I hate the fact that the two best shows on TV are on at the same time. I read a recent interview with Amy Sherman-Paladino (creator/producer of Gilmore Girls) who turns out to be a big Buffy fan herself. Both shows could see a ratings boost tomorrow as their only competition is the State of the Union Address. Both are brand new episodes followed by brand new eps of Smallville and Roswell. I got both VCR's set and ready to go!

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 9:58 a.m. CST

    When you read the Wildfeed you find continuity is all

    by spike fan

    over the map from the last episode. Which has been one of the biggest problems this season. Joss or Marti is to blame The Writers do not seem to know what the other has done.# I have already griped about the destruction of the cool Willow story for a fucked up drug metaphor. But in this episode Buffy is rather emtionless when having sex with Spike and Dawn is cool around Willow yet last episode Buffy could not keep her hands or mouth off Spike while Dawn was pissed with Willow.## Marti may have much responsibilty of this but Joss is also to blame and he needs get of his pedastal were fanboys mistakenly put him and get a cohesive story and get rid of these lame addiction metaphors

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 10 a.m. CST

    Meat is murder she wrote

    by DyslexicHeart

    My biggest complaint(and don't we all have one or a million of them) with BtVS this season is that nothing seems scary or intimidating anymore. A fast food joint serving human flesh? A trio of evil nerds trying to overtake the town? Some mischevious witches/warlocks? Buffy said she was actually scared of dying again in "Gone" but that was one of the few completely unconvincing moments SMG has had in the series run. I agree for the most part with most complaints on the storylines becoming so Soap Opera/After school special-ish, but I think the absence of Giles is also hurting the show very badly. I hope "Ripper" makes it to my small screen as soon as possible.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 10:42 a.m. CST

    No more Wild Feed?

    by Lennard

    I head Fox was going digital meaning people with wild feed aceces will have to change their equipment or else not get wild feed scoops. any truth to these rumors?

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 10:44 a.m. CST

    Gripe it up, fanboys...

    by Vincent D.

    Keep it coming, kids. Gripe about the magic/addiction metaphore. Gripe about how things are too "adult" or "dark" now. Gripe about long episode breaks. Gripe about emotional continuity. Gripe about everything. It doesn't matter. The show is still great, and still a million times better than it would be if you were in charge...

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 10:51 a.m. CST

    Um, the season isn't all that bad ...

    by snicky

    True, it ain't S2 or 3, but what else on TV is? As far as I'm concerned, save for the train derailment that is Willow's storyline, this season is at least as good as the first, and definitely better than 4 and 5.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 10:58 a.m. CST

    "Mmmmm, smell that? That thar is some gooooood beef cookin'

    by Smugbug

    This ep sounds really meaty **pun**. No, really it does - quirky, dark comedy mixed with some drama - sounds like a Buffy of old. I question the turn that has been taken with Willow's storyline. And while I do love sex - man oh man I'd never do it in my Manager's office. Geez how TV characters are so bold!

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:02 a.m. CST

    Color saturation

    by Spoons

    I've noticed during the previews for this ep that the colors are cranked way up. It looks as though I had turned the color setting on my TV to 100 (whereas 50 looks about right). I'm suspecting it's an effect to sort of emphasize the garish oranges and reds and yellows you always see in fast food places. At the level that it's appearing in the previews, the effect is vaguely nauseating. Anyone know if this is intentional?

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:02 a.m. CST

    Buffy Detroit Pre-emption

    by Condorcet

    For everyone who watches "Buffy" on UPN-50 in Detroit... Pistons games on Tuesday and Saturday (the usual back-up night) put our airing of "Doublemeat Palace" at NOON on SUNDAY FEBRUARY 3rd.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:25 a.m. CST


    by ArchDiver

    I think you are mixing gripes. I would fault the Willow arc because it falls short of the darker, more mature themes that had been building this season. Hence the 'afterschool special' remarks. Instead of continuing to show us Willow being slowly corrupted by magic...(remember her killing the doe?)...they give us a slightly cheesy line with her jonesing for a fix and getting into a car accident. That's the kind of stuff we expect from a 90210, not BVS. People are disappointed because this was the TV equivalent of opening the biggest, best-wrapped gift on Christmas morning, and finding a pair of Santa socks. I, for one, hold out hope, and believe that this plotline is far from over. I am still awaiting the rise of Dark Willow. AD out.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:28 a.m. CST

    This shows still great

    by theshlong

    I think if all you are gonna do is moan at the shows creators, then maybe u should just shut the fuck up. Honestly, I'm glad their bringing some quick closure to the Willow storyline becaus seriously, how good could a Willow big-bad actually be. Buffy certainly can't fight witchcraft. Also the B/S sex, Buffy was described as been emotionless, well at least now we know how she actually feels about the relationship. And it show's that the writers arn't just going to waste a season on them. If they break up soon- thats good caus I'm sick of seeing Buffy unhappy all the time. All of you seem to talk about how they are wasting good storylines but isn't it conceivable they have somthing much better planned, I'm certainly expecting a big twist somewhere, and then we'll probably realise what all this character building was actually for. It's already been stated their won't be a big bad who's tryin to end the world this time, but there will be a big bad. Which I think is more realistic since having the end of the world every season was gettin a little silly. I'm also skeptical as to how more of the trioka we'll see, due to there un-popularity, its possible they used this ep tofinish there storyline off screen. Have faith people, It'll be better than anything you can imagine up yourself, or anythin u fantasize about.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:43 a.m. CST

    "Giles don't preach"

    by Chocky

    " - I&#39;m in trouble deep / Giles don&#39;t preach / I&#39;ve been losing sleep / but I made up my mind, / I&#39;m keeping Spike&#39;s baby." !?!?!? What if the Big Bad of this season is Buffy getting pregnant? Hell if Angel and Darla can have a kid, Spike and Buffy surely can too. And don&#39;t give me that "Spike doesn&#39;t have a soul" crap, cause Buffy lives in a comic-book universe where anything can happen. The writers are free to breach the so-called "internal logic" of the Buffyverse whenever and however they want to. <><><><><> My apologies if someone posted this theory already. This popped into my head over the weekend and I couldn&#39;t wait to share it with all of you, especially Madonna style.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 12:03 p.m. CST

    Chocky - made me smile

    by sunflr

    CLASSIC SONG - I luv it!! hee hee

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 12:17 p.m. CST

    New Scooby Member - Gary Coleman

    by KingOfCrows

    I think Gary Coleman would make and excellent addition to the Buffy cast. Any thoughts on this?

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Don&#39;t let your babies grow up to vampires...

    by PrincessFlavia

    I like Chocky&#39;s theory; I&#39;ve been tossing the same idea around in my head for sometime. This season&#39;s supposedly about "growing up". Well, what could force Buffy to grow up more than becoming a mother? (I know, we all know some parents who aren&#39;t too grown-up themselves, but I digress.) And what if Angel/Darla&#39;s son and Buffy/Spike&#39;s child are meant to come together and "bring balance to the Force", so to speak? As for Willow, I&#39;m still trying to hold faith that this storyline hasn&#39;t totally been flushed down the toilet. Remember how bitchy she was to Giles ("I&#39;m powerful...maybe you shouldn&#39;t piss me off...", etc.)? I&#39;m hoping the afterschool special is a fake-out and we will see Willow seriously using her power for les-than-good. IMO, the storyline would have been better were Giles still around, since he also abused the dark arts in his "Ripper" days. And I just really miss his presence overall.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Interesting with the Pregnancy angle...

    by Vincent D.

    I think that would be really interesting. Noxon was quoted as saying that there&#39;s going to be "big badness" this season. Buffy&#39;s pregnancy could certainly fit the bill. (Although that would lease Anya and Xander totally out of the season&#39;s major plotlines, but I digress...) After all, Buffy couldn&#39;t possibly keep a kid. I think her having to decide weather or not to keep the child, and finally deciding to get rid of it, would not only be really compelling, but would really be a landmark on TV.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 2:09 p.m. CST

    I like summer sausage

    by Chocky

    Buffy came back wrong. We know that much, otherwise Spike wouldn&#39;t be able to "knock her up". And didn&#39;t Hercules give us a hint about Buffy&#39;s imperfect resurrection having something to do with Spike? By the way, Spike did kill and drink the blood of two previous slayers so this could give him some kind of magical virility. Other vampires have offed one or more slayers, but very few probably went on to shag a slayer (at least when she was a willing participant). <><><><><> The house-breaking love-making may have been so shattering because Buffy was conceiving some kind of Destiny Child. Maybe the first slayer reborn? <><><><><> Man you are soooo lucky I can&#39;t think of another song to parody. I&#39;ll be back though, you can be sure of that. Bwahahaha . . .

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 2:10 p.m. CST


    by 93curr

    Anybody know exactly what Tara sings in her duet at the end of Giles&#39; song? I&#39;ve had this stuff running through my head for a couple of months now and every time I get to this part my brain turns to mental mumbling. Right after &#39;Wish I could trust that it was just this once but I must do what I must&#39; and right before &#39;Wish I could stay.&#39; Been driving me nuts.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 2:17 p.m. CST

    Does Anya have a soul?

    by rustylocks

    If Anya was human before being made a Vengance Demon and she human again, why isn&#39;t she tormented for all her evil deeds ala Angel?

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 2:21 p.m. CST


    by Chocky

    Little ditty about Spike and Buffy / Two supernatural kids growing up on the Hell Mouth / Buffy&#39;s gonna be a vampire slayer / Spike under a blanket backseat of Buffy&#39;s car. //[Chorus:] Oh yeah / life goes on / long after the thrill of living is gone / Oh yeah they say life goes on / long after the thrill of living is gone, they walk on.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 2:24 p.m. CST


    by Chocky

    I&#39;ve wondered the same thing. How come Anya gets away with all the crap she&#39;s done as a vengeance demon with nary even a guilty conscience, while everyone piles on Spike for being evil. And Angel has to sit around and mope about his bloody past. What, is Anya a sociopath even without a demon?

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Anya&#39;s grief...

    by Vincent D.

    I imagine Anya isn&#39;t grieving about what she&#39;s done because - 1: She has been a demon for much longer than any Vampire on the show, and she&#39;s still "re-learning" her humanity. 2: She granted wishes. She only did what people asked for. Although she was the vessle, the intent to harm came about from elsewhere...

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 2:28 p.m. CST


    by Spoons

    The lyrics are something like, "Wish I could trust that it was just this once, but I must do what I must. I can&#39;t adjust to this disgust, we&#39;re done and I just wish I could stay...." I&#39;m not too sure about the "we&#39;re done" lyric.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 3:25 p.m. CST

    what if?

    by FromHell

    Spike and Angel both come from the most powerfull vamp bloodline around, maybe if they both can have kids it&#39;s cos of thier close relation to the Master (who must have been a god in the sack...eww).

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 3:51 p.m. CST

    Is their a new ANGEL tonight or a repeat?

    by screamsteve72

  • when you account for Transformer fans its not that bad but its pretty f*&^ing bad!!!

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 5:06 p.m. CST

    Buffy the Musical on DVD

    by Rollo Tomasi

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 5:34 p.m. CST


    by Chocky

    Which one are you criticizing me for? The Jack and Diane song I deliberately left the chorus in cause I thought it fit with the musical episode: "You have to keep on living." I had to do some work today, otherwise I would have done the rest of the verses. Anyway lessee you do some parodying, Mr. Gallifrey.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 6:25 p.m. CST

    I can&#39;t believe all you women

    by Nadra

    who want Buffy to - God knows how! - to conceive and have Spike&#39;s kid! Would you yourselves like to have carried Ted Bundy&#39;s? Then why the hell would Buffy - IF this scenario were to be written going against all canon - want to carry another mass murderer&#39;s? Is she that hard up for a male or to be a mother? Shit, the woman&#39;s 21 years old, and - as far as we know - has a decent brain and set of values! Seriously, it&#39;s people such as yourselves who have helped turn an adult-oriented show into "Buffy 90210." Seeing scene after scene of B/S sex does NOT an adult show make. (B/R sex didn&#39;t make the show more adult, either). I am just about ready to turn this show off permanently, as it hasn&#39;t entertained or pleased me in about a season and a half. Too damn bad that a fabulous dark cult hit show has been ruined in a failed attempt to turn it into a bubblegummish soap opera for the masses. I&#39;ve seen better plots, characterizations and romances on its fellow UPN show, "Smackdown." *Click*

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 7:20 p.m. CST


    by PrincessFlavia

    I don&#39;t think the Buffy/motherhood scenario is interesting just because I&#39;m a woman; I think it could be interesting from a story and character standpoint. Of course it&#39;s against "canon", but so was the birth of Connor on "Angel". BTW, if you think the show sucks so much, I have a solution for you...STOP WATCHING. And as far as the Ted Bundy thing, I&#39;m not sending love letters to serial killers in prison. In case you missed it, "Buffy" is a TV SHOW. It&#39;s not real.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 7:35 p.m. CST

    Oh, For Fuck&#39;s Sake, People....

    by EricAlan69

    I expected bloodshed and bitchslaps on this board today, and all I get is Chocky&#39;s Dance Party? What the fuck?! (Hey, Chocky, man, I&#39;m still giving you props for throwing down like you did, don&#39;t get me wrong....but, yeah, "Giles, Don&#39;t Preach" is pretty damned disturbing. Ick.) Now, where are all the Buffy/Spike &#39;shippers popping up to defend the position against which Nadra has stated her feelings so vehemenently (although I really didn&#39;t get the impression that people were actually rooting for this to happen, just postulating scenarios....scenarios that e. thinks you guys came up while freebasing Clearasil, but, hey, it&#39;s all good.)? Where&#39;s today&#39;s tiresome prediction that Willow will purposefully/accidentally kill/maim/dismember one of the Scoobs (Tara) along her path toward Dark Phoenix Fun? This TB was entirely too civilized, and only low-key bitching and moaning was heard burbling in the background. WE CAN IMPROVE! Now, I&#39;ll throw the first ball: Xander will leave Anya at the altar because he has finally come to terms with his own lust for male vampires, especially Spike and Angel. He wants to get staked, and Tito&#39;s just not fulfilling his hole, er, role. Also, Dawn will be discovered molesting Special Education children (that&#39;s where she&#39;s been sneaking back from these past few weeks, a result of her rape at the hands of the Shark-Headed Guy). Now, who&#39;s, you dirty bastards? Grr. Arrgh. // e. (who is digging the laid-back vibe and community spirit....well, what passes for community spirit on AICN, but, still....)

  • This is beyond incredible. Why oh why would the powers that be have Buffy become pregnant with Spike&#39;s baby? So that we could have a 90210 episode of Buffy dealing with the issue of "right to life" or "choice"? Besides the fact that I seriously doubt that this would happen - first of all: Spike is DEAD. So his l&#39;ttle fellas are dead, too. And yes, Angel is dead - but then as far as we know Angel is part of some great prophecy and the Powers (y&#39;know the ones behind Cordie&#39;s visions), of that show may have had something to do with Darla&#39;s pregnancy. Okay - Buffy ain&#39;t gonna be preggers. Her deal with her "wrongness" has to do with her *feelings* toward Spike and something else that I&#39;m leaning towards to maybe a matter of *matter*. I&#39;m liking it to when on Star Trek you get "beamed up" - and your molecules get all mixed up and rearranged - maybe she got all rearranged wierd by Willow&#39;s spell. Just a thought, folks. Boy, sometimes I think more people should read comic books more so that they have the capacity of thinking outside the box.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 7:59 p.m. CST

    Oops, I meant "oven" not "over" and...

    by Smugbug

    my first reference to Powers meant, the Powers that be who are in control of BTVS. No the Powers on Angel - that was my second reference. And that was a wry comment on the comic book readers , directed at those who scoff at comic book readers. My belief is when you have a show like Buffy, Angel that DO NOT deal with reality, comic books become quite useful. **snobbish cough**

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 8:29 p.m. CST


    by agentsculder

    As much as I love Spike, and continually marvel at his emotional range thanks to James Marsters, I&#39;m getting sick of the Buffy/Spike thing fast. Marti, we get it already . . . .James Marsters is one fine example of masculinity, that doesn&#39;t mean he has to get naked every episode! I&#39;d like to see Spike given a REAL storyline. Make him evil again, give him a soul, I don&#39;t care, just stop using him as eye candy. JM has way too much talent to be functioning as just Buffy&#39;s fuck toy.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 8:43 p.m. CST


    by SallyHousecoat

    You incendiery(sp)grammatical snob(bitch slap). How dare you suggest that Dawn would only molest special ed kids(back stab). Also, Xander and Tito&#39;s love will live forever(backhand). But, if it doesn&#39;t he better end up with Angel. Yes, I&#39;m a Xander/Angel shipper, you got sommin&#39; say about it(glare). I didn&#39;t think so. You better back down, before you get smacked down-Jill Scott and me. Peace to all, except EricAlan69.(I hope everyone knows I&#39;m joking)Hey it&#39;s not a song parody.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 8:45 p.m. CST

    Interesting question on Spike

    by Toby O Notoby

    A bit of a moral debate but should we actually consider him evil? I mean, he did kill people but he did so to live, right? Vampires. Need blood. To live. Yes, some vampires (most notably Angel) get their sustanance by animal&#39;s blood and/or non-letahl human&#39;s blood. But that&#39;s almost a vegetarian debate: we consider ourselves (at least at some level) to be above animals and so we use them as food. Vamps consider themselves above us and so we become the Human McNuggets. And unlike most of the vamps in the series, he never wanted to take over the world or bring hell on Earth. Actually, he always seemed a bit more interested in falling in love and getting a pint. NOTE: I don&#39;t necessarily belive this, I just think it&#39;s interesting to think about.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 9:19 p.m. CST

    And another thing

    by Toby O Notoby

    Is it bugging anyone else that everyone is complaining that the writers "backed out" of the Dark Willow story? Wasn&#39;t the whole story line fanboy conjecture? I don&#39;t think they "backed out" of anything - it was more like they threw a curveball

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 9:51 p.m. CST

    Marvel Girl&#39;s emergence as Dark Phoenix is coming soon

    by Hercules

    And, trust me, Buffy will NOT be getting pregnant this season.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 9:53 p.m. CST

    Sheesh...argh..(MY RANT)

    by Thalya

    1) Guys, where the hell have all of you been?? Kitty Fantastico was axed a few eps into the 5th season! There was a discussion somewhere between 5.2-5.6 between Tara and Will that the little kit had to go to the pound or sth. Besides, if she wasn&#39;t, why haven&#39;t we seen any signs of her in Buffy&#39;s house this season? (And don&#39;t say Spike ate her! Demons eat kittens, but it was never implied that he did. He&#39;s gotta have some demon creds, especially after being chipped, right?) *** 2) The Spike/Buffy chemistry is alot more believable than the Buffy/Angel chem ever was, period. *** 3) Why does it seem that I speculate deep and far early on and no one bothers to talk back about it when they could be BITCHING instead, and then a few weeks later people ponder the same stuff and get heard!!! I&#39;m one of the most thoughtful and least incendiary people here! I thought you all wanted a little civility! *** 4) A big YEA about this coming ep. This has all the signs of a MOTW ep from the early seasons, one type we haven&#39;t seen in awhile. This one is less likely to be soap-opera/after-school-specialish, though if it is, it promises to be less so than some of recent memory. *** 5) About Buffy being emotionless, eesh again, don&#39;t you see that she&#39;s always been emotionless since being risen? She resorted to Spike to try to feel something, but she just can&#39;t, isn&#39;t able to. Here&#39;s an idea I want to hear some feedback on for once: instead of Buffy coming back without a soul, how about her coming back without a heart (the center of emotions, if you will, and it fits because in the Buffyverse, you need a soul to truly love, and I think she&#39;s retained that from her efforts not to trouble the Scoobs with her condition pre-OMWF. It could be a completeness thing, because Spike pretty obviously retained his heart though he lost his soul.)? *** 6) I thought Dawn was in a sense Buffy&#39;s child ("she&#39;s made of me"), and then, as I said earlier yet no one noticed, in a sense Spike&#39;s child too since Doc cut her with the same blade he had just stabbed S with in The Gift (again, shared blood. Has anyone ever noticed the particular affection he&#39;s always had for her ever since she showed? For his char through the years it&#39;s just odd, that is, if you think he&#39;s a psycho killer.). *** 7) Nadra, if you haven&#39;t turned the show off yet because you haven&#39;t been entertained, then why bother posting with your 1-dimensional moral equivalencies? When I stopped liking the X-Files, I stopped watching and haven&#39;t looked back, and I didn&#39;t wait so damned long. *** 8) Personally, the B/S sex thing is relevant for the life period the show&#39;s exploring, but relevance does not make goodness. If they can struggle through to something with a touch more pathos and romance, something that will better display their diametrical opposition, I&#39;m all for it, otherwise, Spike&#39;s going to further have to restrain himself and dump the bitch off her high horse. *** 9) *growl/roar* Defy this!

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 10:08 p.m. CST

    It coulb be Rileys baby if were gonna kick this theory around so

    by cosmic commando

    heck, it&#39;s completly without basis, but kind of fun and fills the time. Now I don&#39;t know the maths for the Buffy time thats passed between the last Buff/Riley coupling and where they are now, and considering B&#39;s been in a form of stasis (dead) , it may be flexible enough. And she has come back changed in a way as described possibly as &#39;molecules different&#39; (hormones?), so, she came back pregnant <with Rileys baby>? ( even though she may have died pregnant). The mind boggles at the consequences.Buffy with a baby-Buffy would be a cool road to explore.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 10:15 p.m. CST

    OK, scrub that last post - just seen Hercs &#39;sheesh! - you mo

    by cosmic commando

    still, it was fun while it lasted.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:01 p.m. CST

    Although I agree with you, AgentSculder..

    by Sabrina

    ...that JM IS far too talented an actor to be relegated to being Buffy&#39;s human vibrator, I disagree strongly that he shouldn&#39;t be naked anymore. Bring on as much Naked!Spike! as possible, I say -- we women have had far too little eye candy on TV (which is why all the fanboys herein have their knickers in a twist about all "the gratuitous sex" -- they just can&#39;t admit that JM&#39;s comely nudity has caused "it" to "move," ala George Constanza). Hey Joss and Marti! Don&#39;t listen to these guys! They have no clue about what women really want! Oh and as for Buffy having Spike&#39;s baby (an entertaining if preposterous notion): she should be so lucky. No wait -- I know - you guys would rather than she had Angel&#39;s baby, right? Riiiight....

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:02 p.m. CST

    dark willow?

    by sophistigirl

    ok, I have been lerking for some time and I just need this explained to me. It&#39;s been driving me nuts. What is phenix (sorry about spelling) Willow. I despretely need to know. Also, Buffy pregers, now that would be total after school special (thank god it will never happen). I do know that the characters are becoming adults and all but do we really need Spuffy sex every ep? I think it has been well established that they are oddly and uncontrolably attracted to eachother. I think that it is at this point just a reason to have JM in a scene at all. Spike is such a cool char. and I just think they need to give him something to do besides fuck Buffy. Also, what&#39;s with the lack of Xander and Anya. I mean they have one of the most emportant events coming up in their lives and they are barely in an ep. But I have a feeling that the show will pick up again veeeerrry soon. Damnit!! I can&#39;t believe I missed the Angel preveiw! That&#39;s what I get for avoiding Smallville like the plague. (oh yeah, sorry again for my terrable lack of spelling skills)

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:14 p.m. CST

    shut the hell up

    by jimmythesnitch

    This message is for all those 45 year old women out there who are perverting the Buffy fan base. The show is not called the James Marsters Naked hour. Not that I&#39;m complaining about the writers, because this is a great season, but I&#39;m sick of all these washed up hos spewing their sexual fantasies on all the boards. Remember what you used to do? Go to John Tesh concerts, seduce mailmen, cry at Kodak commercials. Maybe you should revisit your old hobbies and leave BtVS to quasi-intelligent people.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:17 p.m. CST

    Dark Phoenix/Willow (to sophistigirl)

    by Toby O Notoby

    It&#39;s a reference to an old series of X-men comic boooks. Jean Grey/Mavel Girl (the charecter Famke Jannsen played in the movie) kept getting more and more powerful as a telepath. Eventually absolute power corrupted absolutely and she went batshit evil. In the books they had to take her down before she managed to destroy the Universe. Everyone is using this as a reference to Willow who they suspect (or will, according to Herc) eventually give into her powers and become the big bad of the season.

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:21 p.m. CST

    Just read DevilCat&#39;s explanation

    by Toby O Notoby

    At least he/she had to foresight to use "Phoenix" as Jean Grey&#39;s superhero name. "Marvel Girl"? What the hell was I thinking?!?

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:28 p.m. CST

    re:answer to Phoenix

    by sophistigirl

    Now that DevilCat and Toby O Notoby (thanks guys!!) have explained Phoenix Willow to me, Damn how cool would that be!! That would definitely bring some great action on to the show. Knowing that some how makes the whole magic druggie angle they took seem even worse then before!!

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:36 p.m. CST

    Spike IS evilll, like the Devilll...

    by FromHell

  • Jan. 28, 2002, 11:51 p.m. CST


    by FromHell

    before I got to talk it posted itself. Anyway Spike is so totaly evil, doesn&#39;t mean he can&#39;t love (or obsess about) someone, he loved Dru, he woulda died for her. Thats why Buffy&#39;s a bitch to him, that&#39;s why it&#39;s so dark, that&#39;s why it&#39;s totaly dangerous and exiting to her. And I&#39;m getting the impression a lot of people who gripe and bitch about the show are poeple that read too many spoilers and what people say rather than judging the show on it&#39;s own merit. I reckon all the shit&#39;s gonna hit the fan come seasons end and all I care about is seeing some big phat nastyness and heartbreak, and seeing some ass wrenching drama. Sure Spike should be a bad guy, but how pathetic would he seem if he continualy tried to kill Buffy and failed again and again? This way will lead to more interesting relations and hopefully some twisted dark stories. And come on, you realy think it&#39;ll last? This is Buffy for christ sakes, you know it&#39;s gonna end in torment and pain. And Willow will do something nasty, no way they woulda had her tell off Giles and not have it go somewhere, no fucking way, not a chance in hell, unless of course thier brains fell out

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 12:59 a.m. CST


    by MGTHEDJ

    Welcome to the club. Little more info for you: in the season premeire, having Willow guide the team and communicate telepathically was straight out of the X-Men stories. And gang Marti Noxon said the big bad would not come from OUTSIDE the core characters. So Willow&#39;s fall from grace is still an option. Thanks for the confirmation Herc.-----later-----m

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 1:16 a.m. CST


    by EricAlan69

    AL-RIGHT! Now, Faster, Pussycat, Kill Kill!!! Thalya snapped and dropped some logic, we have anti soccer mom rhetoric, and a musical rewrite worthy of ASH, with Beatles-goodness! Hell, even Herc weighed in on the Bun-In-The-Slayer subject, while promoting some tasty Dark-Phoenix style heading down the turnpike- we RULE! // For the record: Yes, I see the Dark Phoenix a comin&#39;; No, Tara won&#39;t die; Tito will have his revenge, mark my words!; and MISS KITTY FANTASTICO is ALIVE AND WELL, having been on an extended tour of the Carribean of late- she will return to full glory soon, in an episode so shocking that you&#39;ll immediately lose all control of your bodily functions, a&#39;la Ebola. I DARE YOU TO DEFY THE WONDER-TWIN POWER OF MISS KITTY AND....THE MUMMY-HAND! AAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHH. <thud> // e.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 1:19 a.m. CST

    The Worst 10 Days Ever in the Buffyverse

    by Xocxoc

    I&#39;m a huge fan of the show, but as pointed out by previous posters the continuity of this season is a bit off. Don&#39;t get me wrong, each episode is a gem, but it seems that each episode lately has spanned a couple of days, and the episode following it seems to start the next day. The result is that the last five episodes seem to span only 10 days in the lives of the Scoobs: *** Once More With Feeling spanned 3 days, apparently ending on a Tuesday. Buffy and Spike kiss on Tuesday Night. *** Tabula Rasa started the next day (Wednesday), but most of the episode happened the day after that (Thursday), Buffy and Spike kiss again on Thursday Night. *** Smashed starts the next night apparently (Friday) when Buffy and Spike stop a mugging and Willow de-Rats Amy and Buffy and Spike investigate the guy getting frozen. It ends the following night (Saturday) when Amy and Willow party at the Bronze, and Buffy and Spike party in an abandoned house. *** Wrecked starts the next day (Sunday), Willow and Amy go to Racks that night, The next night (Monday) is when Dawn and Willow go to Racks and end up in a car accident. *** Gone apparently starts the next night (tuesday), and takes place mostly the next day (Wednesday morning) and ends Wednesday night. *** Five episodes of adventure in a week and a half! Now it is possible that more than a day passed between some of the episodes, but there is nothing in these episodes that contradicts this theory. It is nice to know that Dawn has fully healed, that means at least a month has passed between Gone and Double Meat Palace.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 1:41 a.m. CST

    EricAlan69 - Where the hell did I drop logic?

    by Thalya

    *a big fat raspberry to you!* THBBBBBBTTT!! (Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries!)

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 1:48 a.m. CST

    The future of Buffy and Spike (his physiology)

    by aprilbear

    As a New Zealander it astonishes me that Americans get so upset about scenes depicting intercourse and nudity and yet the extreme violence is great family entertainment. Anyway. Buffy can not get in the family way if Spikes sperm don&#39;t swim due to the fact he is dead. However surely with the latest ivf procedures they could inject her egg with one of his sperm or try the new cloning technique a la Dolly the sheep. Buffy should be wearing a condom while having penetrative sex however because Vampirism is obviously a blood disease like A.I.D.S. so with the rough exciting sex she is having at the moment with Spike she is putting herself at risk especially seeing what a little skank Harmony was.(Spikes previous partner) Romantic that I am however it is obvious watching Once More with Feeling that Spike truly loves Buffy and she is the one that makes their relationship dark and with a just a bit of encouragement on her part their sex life could be totally vanila. If she has passionless sex at Doublemeat well working a double shift can take the energy right out of you.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 1:59 a.m. CST

    Dark Phoenix/Willow (to sophistigirl)

    by Toby O Notoby

    It&#39;s a reference to an old series of X-men comic boooks. Jean Grey/Mavel Girl (the charecter Famke Jannsen played in the movie) kept getting more and more powerful as a telepath. Eventually absolute power corrupted absolutely and she went batshit evil. In the books they had to take her down before she managed to destroy the Universe. Everyone is using this as a reference to Willow who they suspect (or will, according to Herc) eventually give into her powers and become the big bad of the season.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 2:09 a.m. CST


    by Toby O Notoby

    I don

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 2:31 a.m. CST

    Quick poll... Who is better looking Season 1 Buffy or Season 6 B


    I pick Season 1 Buffy. I just saw the first Buffy in rerun and was stunned how much better looking she look with the baby fat on her. SMG needs to eat a cheeseburger or three. Now on the other end of the scale Angel must have gained at least 30 pounds from the 1st show to now. It&#39;s weird seeing what the actors used to look like.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 2:35 a.m. CST

    Hey EricAlan69...

    by MKL2112

    I think you meant the "Wonder Twin Powers of Miss Kitty and... Mr. GORDO!" She forms a giant, ferocious, pissed off Kitty and he forms a gigantic stuffed cow (in some form of water, of course) and together they become the BIG BAD "Gordo Fantastico." They will rid the world of gratuitous sex through an apocalyptic battle of intense, senseless violence... &#39;cause hey, it&#39;s the American way! ;o)

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 2:44 a.m. CST

    The Possible Big Bad

    by The Smartie

    Here&#39;s just one idea that occured to me: Vampires have taken a pretty big backseat over the seasons to demons and other naughtiness, to the point that they are basically plot devices and not villians anymore. The only vampire of any note is Spike, who is now one of the "hero" characters. So, what if the rumored "Big Bad" for the end of the season is on the main characters becoming a vampire? Think about it. The most likely candidates for such a thing would be Dawn or Tara. Now, I&#39;m not going to speculate on how such a change could affect things. That&#39;s just so impossible to predict and could go in so many ways I won&#39;t even bother. But, I figured I&#39;d throw the idea out there anyway.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 3:06 a.m. CST

    Talkback is all screwed up, but: From Hell

    by Toby O Notoby

    What I

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 3:10 a.m. CST

    B/S doesn&#39;t have a leg to stand on, storyline or not

    by Nadra

    "Anyway. Buffy can not get in the family way if Spikes sperm don&#39;t swim due to the fact he is dead. However surely with the latest ivf procedures they could inject her egg with one of his sperm or try the new cloning technique a la Dolly the sheep." Again, why would a heroine opt to carry the child of somebody with thousands of deaths on his conscience? And isn&#39;t one bit sorry for them? You girls who find all of this romantic freak me out. Sure, it&#39;s a storyline, but why not groove on Willow/Tara or (previously) Buffy/Riley? Why gravitate toward that which is titillating but sick?

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 3:14 a.m. CST

    About Spike&#39;s Evilness

    by The Smartie

    Last time I checked, running railroad spikes through people is pretty frickin&#39; evil. And so is resurrecting a bright blue Smurf-From-Hell (The Judge) to destroy humanity. Unlike Angel, Spike doesn&#39;t have the "I&#39;ve got my soul back, I&#39;m a good guy now" excuse. His only excuse for even being accepted is being "fixed" by the Initiative, which it has been made clear didn&#39;t work right anyway. And don&#39;t try to tell me that he&#39;s a good guy because he cares about the people around him and he loves Buffy. That doesn&#39;t make a person "less evil". It just makes them, at best, a self-centered, ass-covering sociopath who likes to shag his enemies for kicks.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 4:17 a.m. CST

    Just 4 things...

    by Sweetpea

    *1. 93curr - Check this site out for Buffy lyrics (I don&#39;t know how accurate they are) *2. Herc - So Buffy isn&#39;t getting pregnant THIS season? What about a Season 7 finale? *3. Imafreakingtroll - I agree that Buffy looked better in Season 1 - SMG is getting too skinny and that has hardened her features. I also feel her heart&#39;s not in it anymore - that peppy freshness is gone. While we&#39;re at it - Xander and Willow also look tired... *4. Duke Lacrosse - Just continuing the discussion about why there would be a watchers retreat (or holiday camp) if there was only one watcher for one slayer. I get that there needs to be a watchers council (for research, etc). I like the idea that they train watchers at a camp. Is it the best watcher that wins the role? It still doesn&#39;t explain why Giles wasn&#39;t invited to one and then later says how good they are. If he had been trained properly as a watcher - it&#39;s pretty strange that he didn&#39;t know about the retreats until Faith came along... Also if slayers get prepped from birth waiting for a slayer to "khark it" so they can take over the role - why was Buffy unaware of her role and so reluctant to take it on? Wouldn&#39;t the council have choosen a more highly skilled slayer, a girl that had been training her whole life to take over the role instead of Buffy? The mind boggles...

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 4:45 a.m. CST

    titilating but sick

    by aprilbear

    Well of course it is romantic because it is fiction, fantasy, made up, pretend. There are no such things as vampires. I mean creatures that drank raw blood all the time would have disgusting breath. Smelt your cats breath lately. Cats are the vampires of life. Watch them torture a bird, mouse or lizard to death. They are still cudly and cute to us though. Look upon Spike a fictional character as Buffy&#39;s tom cat. Buffy totally surreal she can throw a grown man across a room. Why is it sick to imagine her having hot sex with someone as equally superhuman?

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 4:58 a.m. CST

    SMG should actually eat some doublemeat burgers

    by humboldt99

    I seen doublemeat tonight (Monday) and must say I&#39;m quite disapointed. I guess they did the episode to take the piss out of fast food joints but it makes no sense for buffy to work there, no offense to the fast food workers out there but Buffy is beyond that. Also I find it quite disturbing that when Buffy is first shown in her work outfit she looked like she was 12 years old. I feel guilty about feeling naughty thoughts about her and seeing Spike boink her when she looks younger then Dawn does. Get that woman a reverse liposuction and some hair extensions or something. Plus just to throw out a bone in discussions, if anyone dies this season its Spike. There isn&#39;t anywhere else to go with his character, he goes from Nancy boy pussy, to kick ass vamp, he has a sort of redemption for his bad ass days, and now has now returned to Nancy boy Pussy. I say if anyone offs it he does. Probaly in some bullshit heroic fashion to save Buffy or Dawn and to leave the lasting memory with all as a hero. Now don&#39;t get me wrong I always liked the old lovesick for Dru badass Spike and would love to see him return like that as well as Dru. But currently he just blows.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 6:20 a.m. CST

    Yo, Smartie!

    by Toby O Notoby

    Good point about the Judge. I&#39;d have to go back and watch my S2 DVDs again, but I seem to recall that Spike was never to keen on the idea. Wasn&#39;t more Angel&#39;s plan (or maybe his and Dru&#39;s)? I do know he helped stop it in the end, admittedly more as a was to get Dru back. As for the railroad spike thing - same thing applies. He was made a vampire more or less without his consent, after that his only option was to kill people or die. Funnily enough, putting a bolt through its head is pretty much the way they kill cows. You kill cows all your life until someone puts a chip in your head to make you vegetarian. Are you evil or not?

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Thalya: An Excerpt

    by EricAlan69

    &#39;drop logic&#39; (v.) (U.S. colloquialism, stemming from hip-hop culture): 1. To express one&#39;s viewpoint of something in a convincing, stylish manner; used in a complimentary fashion. ex. "When Hercules The Strong noted that Miss Kitty Fantastico was the front-runner to be this season&#39;s "Big Bad," TB&#39;er Thalya responded by dropping the logic on Herc, deftly reducing his argument to the babblings of a lunatic." (REPRINTED FROM THE FORTHCOMING AICN TalkBack COMPANION and FAQ FILE: "Who Is Gordon, Why Is There A Bomb In His Ribcage, And All My Base Belong To WHAT?!?" by e.) // e.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 8:51 a.m. CST

    The Prophecies Of MKL2112

    by EricAlan69

    I Stand Corrected: The WonderTwin Powers of Gordo Fantastico would quite possibly be the absolute best example of Good Scoobs Gone Bad For Season Six that I could possibly imagine! A Magical Porcine-Feline Columbine Of Mayhem! // At the very list, this could be the greatest FanFic piece ever written. I dig it. // e.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Oh, Thalya, I Forgot:

    by EricAlan69

    I Have Been Defied In A Most Python-esque Manner! I Think I&#39;m In Love! // e.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 9:29 a.m. CST

    But you doesn&#39;t have to call him Spike Johnson..

    by AmazingSloth

    Why do people still believe the story that Spike got his name by running spikes into people&#39;s heads (or whatever)? In the episode where he was created it was stated very clearly that he was &#39;William the Bloody&#39; bad poetry writer.. and listening to his poetry was like &#39;having a Spike driven through your skull&#39;.. He used the names to give a big bird to all those who ridiculed him and that &#39;he&#39;d show them&#39;..

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 10:07 a.m. CST

    Perverting the fan base & etc.

    by Chocky

    Hmmmm ... who on this board is waiting for Michelle Trachtenberg to reach the legal age of consent??? <><><><><> If the writers can concoct a prophecy for Angel to have a baby, why the hell not one for Spike & Buffy. My theories are too comic book universe? You&#39;re soaking in it! Buffy can came back to life multiple times, it&#39;s like every superhero comic book I&#39;ve read. <><><><><> Oh and Time Tripper, props to your effort. <><><><><> I do agree that Spike is getting a little *too* naked. At this point I&#39;d rather see some tender smooching than the softcore porn approach.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 10:42 a.m. CST

    B/S may not have a leg to stand on

    by BrewBaker

    but at least its great to watch. Buffy&#39;s other love interests were so bloody boring! Angel/Buffy was just pathetic stuff school girls may enjoy. The couple had no chemistry. He is better off in a different city. Riley/Buffy??!! How dull! Riley was just sooo dry. Tara and Willow make me gag. I can take one Willow, but Tara is like a sappier(sappyer? sp?) version of Will. Blah to that! I can&#39;t really see a way to make B\S work but its the most enjoyable that I&#39;ve seen on the show.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 11:01 a.m. CST

    where did we say

    by Chocky

    that we wanted Buffy to have a baby? We&#39;re tossing the idea around as an amusing theory. Positing a theory does not equal wanting it to come true. <><><><><> Why does this place always erupt into a vitriolic bloodbath over something that&#39;s just a TV show? Oi vey.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 11:49 a.m. CST

    Geez, gals - you&#39;re makin&#39; me ashamed of bein&#39; a wom

    by Smugbug

    EricAlan69 - hats off to ya. And nakedness does not add to the development of a character. I don&#39;t care if James Marsters&#39; high protien, low carb diet is workin&#39; for him - personally I think he&#39;s also lost TOO much weight. Just watch earlier eps of Buffy. He&#39;s face is much fuller, his physique less stringy. I know he&#39;s a vampire (gotta say this for all them BtVS purists) - yadda yadda yadda. But even now, you have to admit Buffy&#39;s ability to knock a vamp across the room is pushing the envelope of believability - even for a show like BtVS. Yes, SMG needs to stop that Zone diet (which I had read she was on - it &#39;s been the *trendy* H-Town diet). And one thing that I have really enjoyed about Buffy is the fact that the women were strong. Yes, like in X-Men: the women were the strongest of the group. And there was no stigma attached to that fact. In other words: they didn&#39;t, and the people around them, have a issue with that. Like in the real world: if you are a physically/mentally strong woman you&#39;re not looked upon in the most positive of lights. Yes, it&#39;s changing. But slowly. I am a strong woman - I have never been ashamed of that. But I also like to dress the part (makeup, hair, etc). From the time I was a little tomboy, it was refreshing to see comic books like X-Men that portrayed strong women postively. No Charlies Angels for me - though I liked Wonder Woman and the Bionic Woman (and Starsky and Hutch, woo hoo!). Then came X-Files with Scully. A strong, smart woman who became sexy as all hell because of that. Totally kewl. And then BtVS. And now you gals (and some guys) want to reduce her to some bun carrrying chick? Yuck. I don&#39;t wish for her to carry either Angel or Spike&#39;s baby. That&#39;s a pretty sad thought. Folks, now that we&#39;re in the 21st Century, I hope we don&#39;t have to resort to pregnancy to move a female character along in development. I have always thought of BtVS as a show of quality in acting, writing and development. And I hope they get this season moving in that direction once again.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 12:17 p.m. CST

    Well it figures, another awards show IGNORES BUFFY!

    by Led Gopher

    not sure if any of you saw the SAG Awards nominations read 2day, but as usual, did BTVS get one nod? NOOOOOO! Led Gopher has complained.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Strong women have babies too......

    by jillg5

    Buffy is not getting pregnanat this season, nor do I want her to. However, to imply that pregnancy makes a woman less strong is insane. Mothers are the strongest women alive! I miss Joyce......

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 12:29 p.m. CST

    Buffy pregnant!?!

    by SpicyMeatball

    hey guys mmmmmm yummy baby.. anyways I was reading all this talk bout Buffy being pregnant and I got an idea. What if the reason spike can hit buffy is she&#39;s carrying his baby which is part demon!!?? I know my theory is seriously flawed since I think they first had sex in Smashed. but it could work, if they sorta did some flashback or something. Ohh and speaking of babies, I think an interesting storyline for next year would have Xan and Anya pregers and she&#39;s gonna have a baby girl. The watchers council comes unexpectedly because her baby is destined to be the next slayer. And then Anya has to the hard decision to keep the baby or not. You know a metaphor for abortion since the life of the slayer is just sooo hard and cruel.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 12:53 p.m. CST

    William the Bloody&#39;s Moniker

    by ArchDiver

    He did get the &#39;William the Bloody&#39; tag from his bloody awful poetry, and someone did compare listening to him recite was like getting a railroad spike driven through his head...but Giles clearly stated in his exposition of Spike, when he figured out his history, that he got it for torturing his victims with a railroad spike. Since he overheard the comment, I think we are supposed to believe that the guy who said it was his first victim.***** Spike WAS assembling the Judge prior to Angel going evil. I believe it was a present for Dru... or was it thte other way around? Buffy learned of it on her birthday by capturing an arm, and later had sex with Angel. Angel went evil, and later finished the Judge. Mayhem ensued. AD out

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 1:38 p.m. CST

    It would be really nice if some people on this site could review

    by Silver_Joo

    Every friggin Buffy review has been complimetary during this season, I was looking forward to catching it here in the UK. I watch three eps, it is terrible. It is worse than the majority of season five, which I had little time for. Please review this show for the badly acted, shitty ensemble comedy it is trying to be. Storylines are shrugged off, emotional traumas come and go, depending on what plot device the writer chooses. The only consistent element of this show has been Spike, frequently amusing and can actually act his part. I have no time for Buffy, as a show it has run its course, it would be favourable if all involved put their effort into Angel, which suffers because of a need to resurrect this piece of shit. Sorry guys, but this show has lost it.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 1:55 p.m. CST

    Spike et al

    by 93curr

    IMHO Spike was only bad in order to impress Drusilla (geez, when they assembled the Judge, the first thing he wanted to do was immolate him), now he&#39;s good in order to impress Buffy. He&#39;s admitted to being love&#39;s bitch and defines his character in regards to the woman he&#39;s fawning over at the time. Seeing as how this season&#39;s story arc appears to be primarily about the scoobies redefining themselves (Dawn, as a teenager, has to decide on her personality, Xander has to change from freewheeling bachelor-about-town with tons o&#39; babes (ha!) to husband, Willow (well, she&#39;s self aware enough to have stated the obvious at the end of Wrecked), Giles left for the powers-that-be&#39;s sake). I can see no obvious reason why Spike can&#39;t decide for himself. It sure seemed that he burned his bridges behind him deliberately during Fool For Love.Regarding the poll over at the BetaBronze, why does everyone think that Xander will freak out when/if the sexcapades are revealed? He already faced this in Intervention, and dealt with it in a fairly reasonable manner. He reasoned that Buffy was greaving over her mother and that Spike was taking advantage of her. He wasn&#39;t angry at Buffy, he didn&#39;t even blame her, he just confronted Spike. Personally, I think it&#39;s more likely that Dawn would be devastated by the news. Can&#39;t say that I&#39;d be impressed by a storyline where Buffy gets pregnant, but I do agree that it would be a good idea to have Anya and Xander have a girl who&#39;s identified as a potential slayer. The abortion metaphor would never work, but having them decide if they would allow it (like Buffy, she would probably end up dead or miserable, or both) would enable the writers to use the Watcher&#39;s Council as the big bad in season seven. Lots of potential for sturm and drang.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 2:15 p.m. CST

    I&#39;m surprised there hasn&#39;t been a review of the Season 1

    by PrincessFlavia

    That&#39;s all. And interesting idea about Xander/Anya&#39;s daughter being a slayer-in-waiting. I&#39;ve always wondered what happened in that sort-of "pre-Slayer" period of a Slayer&#39;s life. Question, though...Why did Kendra&#39;s family know about her status as "chosen one" her whole life, while Buffy (and her family) were completely in the dark? Is it a cultural thing?

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 2:24 p.m. CST


    by dwam0

    Willow - Maybe we&#39;ll find out that doing magic near the Hellmouth is the reason why it&#39;s turned Willow into an addict from a power junkie and made magic so DANGEROUS to her health and sanity all of a sudden. Buffy - Maybe she&#39;ll realize that the good citizens of a town filled with vampires, demons and other baddies might be in the market for Vampire Slayer and put her on the city payroll. Considering what she did at high school and college, you would think that the citizens are well aware of her powers. Giles and Tara - We&#39;ll find out that he hasn&#39;t totally abandoned them during such an important time - knowing Buffy just returned from the dead and that Willow was playing with dangerous magic - and has been getting updates from Tara. She is turn has been getting directions and support from him as she tries to give Willow space. Dawn - Well finally find out how she was created, why she&#39;s still living and how long does she have to live. There&#39;s got to be a reason why she&#39;s on the show, doesn&#39;t there? Spike - It&#39;s been 100 years, why is he still angry. The demon may make him bad and evil, but why is he still lashing out at people? He&#39;s repulsed by his own need for domesticity, love and adoration and his compulsion to play protector.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 2:34 p.m. CST

    EricAlan69 - ohh..

    by Thalya

    ahh..I thought the phrase meant a slip in logic. As for the Python, be thankful I had just seen an ep of Outlaw Star and was feeling rather Aisha-ish as a result. ;)

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 2:58 p.m. CST

    Actually Anya and Xander can&#39;t have a Slayer kid

    by sundown

    cause B will be the last for a long Fray to see what I mean. Eventually Buffy will wipe out virtually all evilness and magic... I was inclined to rip into SilverJoo but he has some points. I still have to say CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is my favorite as opposed to &#39;it sucks its run its course&#39;...

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Season 1 DVD (region 1)

    by 93curr

    Picture and sound quality are much better than I had hoped (especially after reading The Digital Bits&#39; review). Considering that they were filmed in 16mm (and transferred to u-matic for FX) the grain is far less than I feared (think mid-80&#39;s period Woody Allen). The night scenes (and plenty of them there are) suffer most, obviously (particularly the first entrance of Angel in episode 1 -color smearing extraordenaire). Extras are pretty mimimal -commentary and scripts for episodes 1 & 2, promo fluff for the affiliates, and promo photos of the cast. It should be noted, however, that it&#39;s not like in The Simpsons box; the scripts are not the original pages w/ handwritten notes and changes -they&#39;re shown as yellow on purple background -gives me one hell of a headache to read after a while. Also, the booklet (on my copy, anyway) is cut too large to fit into the pocket, making it damn near impossible to remove without causing major damage. The biggest complaint has to be with the artwork on the packaging, however. One photo of the cast and about eighteen of SMG, all in sexy/pouty/come-hither pose. Quite appropriate for Baywatch, perhaps, but I wouldn&#39;t let anyone see it if you wanted them to take the show seriously. Also, some episodes contain the &#39;in every generation there is a slayer&#39; intro, some don&#39;t. Seems pretty arbitrary to me. I hope when the season two box shows up that they&#39;ll allow you to skip the &#39;previously on Buffy&#39; intros (a la The Sopranos boxes) cause they really annoy the hell out of me -like giving a synopsis at the beginning of each chapter in a book. Other than these petty complaints, I was pretty damn impressed -the actual episodes look and sound better than I&#39;ve ever seen them on broadcast.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 3:20 p.m. CST

    I&#39;ll never gripe

    by Panooka

    I want to humbly agree with a comment on here (gawd, i can&#39;t beleive i&#39;m writing comments on the internet), but yes, there has been plenty of griping about this season. And personally, I love this season. I like where the show is going. Its a bit different, but change is always good. So people, gripe if you will, but I still applaud the genius of Buffy. It is one of the best shows on television. And yes.. that is my comment.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 3:22 p.m. CST


    by Psynapse

    Get a clue and do some research. AIDS is not a "blood disease", it&#39;s an immune disorder (Contrary to popular belief there is NO clinical evidence that definitely links HIV to AIDS). Also Vampirism is a SUPERNATURAL condition where a person is killed and at the moment of their death a demon spirit inhabits the body while imprinting the host personality. The blood is merely the physical focus that enables a dying body to be re-animated rather than getting stiffy. Twit.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 3:32 p.m. CST

    Y&#39;know this is getting irritating...

    by Smugbug

    Where did I imply that a pregnant woman is less strong? oooh the natives are getting touchy. Let me be more specific: I meant to NOT use pregnancy as a character device for development. If y&#39;all notice I didn&#39;t mention Scully&#39;s recent pregnancy. I believe with the X-Files, the writers ran out of ideas and had no choice but to use the "Scully gets pregnant" as a plot device. I believe BtVS has plenty of other ways of developing the characters - it&#39;s shown in the past how creative these people can be when they want to - and that&#39;s by NOT resorting to all the tired plot devices of lesser shows. Ahh, remember when The X-Files useto be this way? Buffy doesn&#39;t need to get pregnant, she won&#39;t be pregnant - besides she&#39;s got a kid sister that is still acting like a child and needs to grow up. So Buffy needs to collect that inner strength that has made her character one of the best on television. Yean, Marsters has done a bang up job w/Spike - but I believe that SMG/Buffy has remained a strong central anchor for the show. SAG - you bastards for not nominating SMG! Oh and sundown: I&#39;ve been repeating that all along about Fray. However don&#39;t you wonder now: if Buffy is indeed the last of the slayers until Melaka Fray, what about Faith? What happens to Faith?

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 3:45 p.m. CST


    by PrincessFlavia

    to 93curr for the DVD review. I actually already own the set, but was interested in hearing what others thought about it. I agree with pretty much everything you said (lol about too many "Baywatch"-type pics of SMG). And your book isn&#39;t the only defective one--I had a bitch of a time getting it back into the case/box, too. But those really are minor complaints; it&#39;s great to see the episodes uncut (since FX cuts stuff so they can show more commercials for "The Shield" and the 112th re-airing of "Sins of the Father") and looking so clean. And thanks to Sleazy G for the Kendra explanation. Due to my deep hatred of Kristy Swanson and anything starring Luke Perry, I have yet to bring myself to watch the movie--so your explanation is much appreciated.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 3:47 p.m. CST

    Why must the gays be punished?

    by Astral Weeks

    Jesus Christ. The mere notion that Joss and Marti are considering playing out the dead dyke/evil dyke clich

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 4:06 p.m. CST

    Astral Weeks

    by RallyV

    >Subject: Why must the gays be >punished? Very simple, they are not, I repeat NOT playing the dead lesbian clique card. Herc seems to be the only one with any "proof" of this stupid rumor. But he doesn&#39;t want to share his "proof". He just continues to let this assinine rumor live on, to panic the less informed.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 4:17 p.m. CST

    astral weeks...

    by thewoodpecker

    I think you&#39;re missing the point. I doubt that anything Tara and Willow are going through are a metaphor for punishing gays. I case you haven&#39;t noticed, NO ONE on Buffy stays happy or in a relationship for very long. Xander and Anya (which to me is getting tiresome anyway; give my favorite characters something to do, damn it!) have been together the longest, and things are coming to a head there, too. The show has been very consistent is portraying Willow&#39;s use of magic as a dangerous pursuit. There is also a proven track record that power corrupts: the Mayor, Faith, Willow, even Buffy and Giles have all been temped by the dark side; not all have fallen. My problem with the Willow arc is the mixed metaphor: is the magic addictive or is the power seductive? I&#39;ve never really seen anyone on the show get "high" off spells before, so what gives? I&#39;m asking if the addiction is physical or psychological. Also, where are other magic addicts? Is there a 12-step program? Step one: We admitted we were powerless over magic and our lives had become unmanagable. BTW: before the flame comes, I&#39;m in a 12 step program and been sober for years, so chill. This is another reason I bring this up. Gone used the concept better: Willow needed to use her brain and computers without resorting to magic to make things easier. In other words, she has to live as a normal person, without her magical abilities. It&#39;s also worth noting that the person who seems the most normal and functional is the one without any powers: Xander. In the end, he might be happy he never had them. Thank you for letting me share.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Punishing Gays

    by ArchDiver

    So now these characters have blanket immunity from having anything negative happen to them since they are a protected minority? You really think if either of those things happened-- or both-- that Joss would package it as a statement against their lifestyle choice? Are you really this wrapped up in the sexuality issue? Get real. AD out.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 5:01 p.m. CST


    by FromHell

    you are an idiot. Just cos they are gay doesnt automaticaly make them imune to hurt and punishement, close minded PC thugs like you do more damage than good by keeping lesbian and gay characters from developing into real characters with problems like everyone else, again, you are an idiot.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 5:05 p.m. CST

    Slayers in Waiting

    by lexy

    I always thought it would be a great story line if in fact one of the potential slayers was not keen on waiting for Buffy and Faith to die. What if she sort of took matters into her own hands? It would make for a great season (in my opinion) and would create a kickass Big Bad.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 5:13 p.m. CST


    by Chocky

    I picked up the latest InStyle magazine on a lark. There&#39;s photos of Nicholas Brendan and David Boreanaz&#39; weddings (not to each other silly!) plus Julie Benz is in the fashion section near the front wearing a designer dress.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 5:16 p.m. CST

    Astral Weeks

    by EricAlan69

    (Every time you post, I feel like putting on a Van Morrison CD, for some reason) // See, even if they do go Dark Phoenix with Willow, I wouldn&#39;t even *remotely* consider that playing into some &#39;retribution for the homosexuals&#39; sort- of scenario, and here&#39;s why: look where Willow and Tara&#39;s sexual orientation is placed in the grand scheme of the Buffyverse- it&#39;s not that important, which is why it&#39;s the best representation of a gay relationship I&#39;ve ever seen on the small screen (or any screen, for that matter). Let me explain that a bit, lest I be flamed. Changing the sexual orientation of one of the main characters on a show during it&#39;s fourth season would, on any other series, be Very Special Episode time, wherein we&#39;d get lots of melodrama, confusion, anger, tears, delayed acceptance, rejection of said- character&#39;s new partner by her friends/family, and we might even get a nice PSA by a cast member following the credits, especially if the show were on NBC ("Gay bashing is bad! Be good! The More You Know...."). Also, there would be a sub-plot automatically built into every episode that came after for use when things get dull, and where the character would Question Their New Sexuality (which was pretty much just glossed over in 30 seconds in "Once More, With Feeling") You know the routine. On BtVS, there were approximately three or four episodes wherein Willow was presumedly starting to question her sexuality (&#39;presumably&#39; because they were much more noticeable in hindsight, but not at the time), then things came to a head in "New Moon Rising", and she made her choice. After that, she told Buffy, which was handled without pathos, and, for the most part, that was it. All in all, it was treated like Willow got into another relationship with a guy: No Big Deal. There has never really been any special treatment of Willow and Tara as being gay; they have a relationship, everyone adjusted to it in no time at all, and it was back to business as usual. // Therefore, Willow going all D.P. would really be the result of her very gradual descent into magic abuse, which started with floating pencils in Season 2. This is all about self-esteem for Willow, which unfortunately has resulted in addiction (and, as I&#39;ve stated before, they rushed the "Willow hitting bottom" part in "Wrecked", but the groundwork has been there since 1998), and will only be viewed as some sort of anti-lesbian/ anti-wiccan screed by people who are going in looking for it. That&#39;s too easy, and Joss & Co. have worked too hard to make W/T as natural as possible for most viewers to see it as some sort of retribution for their sexual orientation. // e.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 5:26 p.m. CST

    TheWoodpecker: Thanks For Sharing! Keep Coming Back!

    by EricAlan69

    Okay, we can start our own minority group right here and now: In Recovery, Yet Addicted To Buffy-ness! (When I first was getting sober in &#39;97/&#39;98, when asked who my higher power was, I used to tell people, "Buffy". This got me some very strange looks at meetings, but, hey, I&#39;m powerless. Sue me. // e,

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 5:50 p.m. CST


    by thewoodpecker

    LOL Can we call it getting help if neither one wants to get detoxed from the Buffinator? I tell my groupmates about my Buffy obsession and they mumble that "some are sicker then others." Poor bastards just don&#39;t get it. Be cheered though; I got a friend into watching Buffy at the gym in the morning before she goes to work and now she&#39;s hooked. Remeber: friends don&#39;t let friends drive drunk (but they do let them do Buffy!) She&#39;s gay so that works. BTW: Chocky, NB and DB would make a GREAT couple. No word on who&#39;s the bride, though.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 6:21 p.m. CST


    by SITA18


  • Jan. 29, 2002, 6:34 p.m. CST

    AIDS is not a blood disease

    by aprilbear

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 6:40 p.m. CST

    AIDS is not a blood disease

    by aprilbear

    Yes your are right Psynapse it is a virus (AIDS) I meant you could transmit it by body fluids. There is a supernatural element in BTVS universe to Vampires but you don&#39;t get to be a vampire with out exchanging blood. Although of course Buffy didn&#39;t get to be a Vampire drinking Dracula&#39;s blood. People don&#39;t get HIV by one act of swapping body fluids all the time either. The more I think about it the more I reckon it would be twenty times more interesting if Buffy became a vampire next season instead of getting pregnant.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 6:59 p.m. CST

    you know....

    by calvinthefish

    I haven&#39;t even seen the episode yet, and am amazed at all the talkbacks. But this sounds like a total classic episode. Something is fishy in a seemingly innocent place. We are talking a total throwback here in the likes of the evil praying mantis substitute teacher or the halloween shop with the funky costumes. I think it is going to be great. Now to my point, remember when everyone was so angry for how easy it was to bring Buffy back because Joss said they would have to earn it? My god, doesn&#39;t feel like we still are? She certainly isn&#39;t the Buffy of old.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 7:03 p.m. CST

    Dumping Tara.

    by Astral Weeks

    I feel that I may be slightly misunderstood here. I am objecting to the notion of dead Tara. I feel that killing off Tara is a radical departure for the show in term of it&#39;s portrayal of couples. Whenever a relationship ended on Buffy the other half managed to leave town alive(i.e. Oz,Angel,Cordy,Riley). The relationship break up and character departures were due to the actors pursing other roles or spinning off onto the Angel show. As far as I can tell killing off Tara and dumping Amber Benson is the writers/producers decision and not Benson&#39;s. It may lead to interesting plots but on an emotional level I think it&#39;s a poor direction in which to take show. I mean how much pain and suffering can we take here. There has to be a line between torturing the characters and torturing the audience.Generally speaking Buffy seems to degenerating to the level of a whiny soap opera. I just hope that all that pain and suffering is actually heading somewhere and that there is less internal character based misery in season 7 and a credible external threat to give the show focus and dynamism

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 8:30 p.m. CST

    A good Buffy episode this season is not saying much...

    by Stilt-Man

    especially compared with last season, heck, even the season before that. This HUGE BTVS fan actually thinks the show needs to be revamped/cancelled. Sarah Michelle is not in good form this season, not to mention the very weak and not very entertaining nerds of doom sub-plot...I would not try to hook a newbie into watching this show based on this seasons episodes. I WOULD break out my season one DVD and show them the beginning of what could have been a classic tv show from start to finish, but much like Hollywoods love of sequels...Josh Whedon does not know when to bow out at the height of his glory (is he even writing for the show anymore...the writing is so weak, I cannot believe the same person who wrote last seasons episodes (I miss Glory, after putting up with the last few Buffy episodes) is still the writer of this now very mediocre show. Still worth watching, just not worth going nuts over if you miss an episode (I went nuts when my tivo did not pick up the episode where Buffy&#39;s Mom died, I missed an episode this season, and I can honestly say I do not care if it is ever rerun). It has been a LONG time since I could declare that missing an episode of Buffy would NOT suck, and praying it was rerun soon. Heck, people have said Enterprise is more entertaining than Buffy this season, and GASP!! I have to agree with them.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 8:56 p.m. CST

    I am a consumer. Service me.

    by RenoNevada2000

    By far the funniest line of a fairly funny episode. Lots of great stuff all around. Though I wonder which McDonalds rep actually bought time on this episode. Didn&#39;t like that look Amy gave Willow at the end of the episode. Was that Allison LaPlanca (John LArroquette Show, Duet) as the new manager at the end? And what was with the giant penis coming out of the old lady&#39;s head?

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 9:28 p.m. CST


    by thewoodpecker

    ****SPOILER ALERT***** The rumor mill has stated that is Warren&#39;s non-robot girlfriend Katrina from I Was Made Only to Love You. The nerds of doom make her a willing sex slave with a gadet. She snaps out of it and tries to escape, getting killed in the process (But by accident). The nerds then stage her dead to trick Buffy into thinking it was she who killed Katrina ***END SPOILER ALERT***** Of couse I could be wrong.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Enigma do you still have that number for Joss?

    by MGTHEDJ

    The script was good, the jokes were there, the director was weak. The pacing was a half-beat off. Doing an ep. on fast food is an inside joke since SMG did commercials for Burger King in the 1980s, and the last scene made the ep. worth my time. Also, Marti and Jane messed up on the continuity I think. Buffy was in LA the summer between her junior and senior year. That&#39;s ,what, 3 years ago. If it was a plant to see how fast we could spot the error, I noticed immediatly. Yes I am a geek, so be it.-----later-----m

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 9:34 p.m. CST


    by kobayashi

    Would all of you whining sniveling little crybabies just shut up! I can&#39;t take it any more. What show are you watching? This season has been just as good as any other. ALL seasons have peaks and valleys. GET OVER IT! ...or get a life. Buffy still kicks butt.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 9:46 p.m. CST

    Buffy enters the Fast Food Nation

    by Wicked Willow

    OK,I think Amy&#39;s "Potentus" spell has zapped a few of you guys so I&#39;m just keeping my post on strictly what happened on the show tonight. The Fast Food Nation reference in my post title is also the title of Eric Schlosser&#39;s book about "the dark side of the All-American meal"(which Buffy got a taste of tonight)and thanks to it plus a chat with one of my co-workers who worked once at a Taco Bell,alot of what went on at the DMP was pretty accurate: high employee turnover,job training not fit for a five-year-old and the mind-numbing dullness of the work. The fact that the secret ingrediant in Doublemeat is vegatables has a creepy metaphor for the workers being cattle for the old lady demon. Also,smart move of Buffy to use that info to get her job back(not much of a job but it&#39;ll look good to Social Services if they start sniffing around)-by using vegetable mix instead of beef,the company is probaly overcharging bigtime for those burgers. To me,the Xander/Anya wedding is going to be a major turning point-look how Xander freaked at the thought of what Anya might have looked like in demon form plus Halfrek&#39;s not-so-subtle hinting to Anya about the minuses of marrying Xander. Spike once again tells Buffy the truth about what she&#39;s doing(and no,NewYorkKid,they were not doing it behind a garbage bin-it was in the manager&#39;s office!)and is hard for her to resist. Also liked Willow&#39;s resolve face as she told Amy to stay away..wonder where that&#39;s going.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 10:13 p.m. CST

    bring on the sweeps and end the damned break!

    by GoonLord

    Man..these breaks are murder. Do they really need to take that much time off?----------Anyway, the good things, Buffy looked awfully bored with the sex with Spike...Buffy gets to shoot for the top of the loser job and that was a perfect bit with Dawn and Xander about taking care of the worthless older sister...and best of all, the questioning of the marriage isnt going to be one sided like I thought they&#39;d make it..not to mention we&#39;ll finally be getting more of Xander in the coming eps! Damn they are wasting the comedic potentials with him...

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 10:15 p.m. CST

    Also, whats up with the penis monster?

    by GoonLord

    Was that a tribute to the penis monster from Troma&#39;s Tromeo and Juliet?

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 10:38 p.m. CST

    Looks interesting...

    by screamsteve72

    next weeks episode looks like its gonna be prettty damn good. although it might seemed recycled after Faith accidently killed that guy in season 3, Buffy has never actually killed a human (unless you count those Knight guys that attacked Buffy on top of the Winebago last season, i think she might have axed one.) i thought tonights episode was pretty solid, although i didn&#39;t care to much for nick marcs direction, he did a much better job in the hilarious Life Serial episode. as for those people bitching about SMG...shut up. ok she may look a little bony but thats not necessarily her fault, i eat a lot and im skinny as hell. and her performance continues to be great, shes good at comedy and drama. why she doesn&#39;t have like 5 emmys sitting on her mantle is beyond me.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 10:44 p.m. CST

    "Lolita" reference

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    I cracked up hard at this (the dialogue between Spike and Buffy at the ordering counter, which was lifted, virtually word for word, from the final scene between Humbert and Lolita). It made the scene funny and somewhat creepy at the same time. I wonder if much of the audience caught this nod to this great classic novel. Good to see that you caught this reference, too, Herc.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 10:54 p.m. CST

    Season Three Deja Vu

    by The Alienist

    Willow becoming evil? Addicted to her own strength and powers? Turning on her friends? Hmmmmm...sounds like a certain Third Season raven-haired slayer now serving time in L.A. (or in some bad teen oriented flick eventually starring Freddy Prinze Jr and/or most of the cast of "Dude Where&#39;s My Car".) A slayer killing a human? Hmmmm. Oh! Oh! Uh--Season (Been There) Three (Done That). What gives? Yeah, I know the Nerds of Doom set Buffy up, but we&#39;re gonna have to go through all that same angst sh*t again. Stephen King just announced he&#39;s quitting writing in a year or so because he&#39;s repeating himself. I love Buffy. It&#39;s so easily my favorite television show of all time. But, you know. Isn&#39;t it getting close to the Time? What was charming about the show was the fact that these were teenagers fighting evil. First Period. Study Hall. Slay a fat vamp. Lunch. Rescue your friend from an Ugly. Yearbook. Sixth Period. Home. Send your boyfriend to hell. That&#39;s drama. It&#39;s just not as much fun with the kids growing up. Is it? Incidentally Marti Noxon gave a couple clues to the rest of the season and beyond on Entertainment Weekly Online. Link:,6115,197919~10~0~latestnewsaboutbuffy,00.html

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 11:18 p.m. CST


    by Alanna Banana

    Can someone enlighten me on what in particular was lifted from Lolita? kthxbi

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 11:28 p.m. CST

    A Job for Buffy

    by MarkWhittington

    I think it&#39;s rather silly that Buffy is going to be consigned to dead end jobs for the rest of her life. She has one skill that is very lucrative. She can kick ass. Therefore she could be a martial arts instructor.

  • Jan. 29, 2002, 11:34 p.m. CST



    They never showed her swallow, BUT SARAH WAS EATING!!!!!

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 12:25 a.m. CST

    Fast Food Buffy...

    by Smugbug

    cute and solid ep. What I liked about it was how ugly it made fast food to look like. And fast food - well, I&#39;ve always questioned the "food" part - especially since I don&#39;t eat that "crap" (hmm, never have liked it - as my mom can attest - I was a picky kid). And Eric Schlosser, who wrote Fast Food Nation, will be here in Portland. It has to do with the fact that my neighborhood stopped a McDonalds from being built and another neighborhood is following suit. Pretty kewl. Anywhoos - the colors of tonight&#39;s ep looked REALLY uber bright - I wonder if that was done on purpose? And I&#39;m sorry, but didn&#39;t Buffy waitress like 3 seasons ago? NOT last summer....

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 1:04 a.m. CST

    Did I miss something?

    by Fields of Mars


  • Jan. 30, 2002, 1:17 a.m. CST

    Field Of Mars

    by EricAlan69

    Yes, you missed something. // e.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 1:57 a.m. CST

    Everything I know about addiction I learned from Loveline

    by cold lazarus

    And apparently it&#39;s the thrill that becomes addictive--it gets hardwired into the brain. Which is why substance abusers can slide into sex addiction even if they get off the junk; one things becomes a substitute for the other. So perhaps it&#39;s not the magic itself that&#39;s addictive but the thrill or seduction of magic that is. Will&#39;s and Buffy&#39;s storylines are paralleling the other--they are both *majorly* acting out. If this were my show, I would have made Willow&#39;s struggle with magic more internal and less physical--Will&#39;s "withdrawal" symptoms were a tad heavyhanded, IMHO. But me, I got no problem with the addiction metaphor, except that Will&#39;s fall was too quick. It amuses me that some people don&#39;t like the "afterschool special"-ness of the storyline but are willing to embrace the same old Dark Phoenix/"seduced by the dark side of the force" retread. The Reefer Madness thing may be a little wacky and daft, but at least it hasn&#39;t been done to death like the Hero Turns Evil plot. I mean, it&#39;s been done over and over on BTVS, even--Angel, Faith, and Doppleganger Will, anyone? Anyway, in some cases of addiction, sometimes the abuser has to hit rock bottom before they start to turn around--and Will has not bottomed out yet, I believe, "Wrecked" aside. At this point, who *doesn&#39;t* think she won&#39;t go back to the well before season&#39;s end? But I&#39;m hoping they won&#39;t do a straight Dark Phoenix ripoff, and after tonight, I have more faith that they won&#39;t. I was genuinely surprised when the Doublemeat didn&#39;t turn out to be people after all--if it were the X-Files or something you know that they would have left a shred of doubt, but on Buffy, it&#39;s just vegetable filler that&#39;s the dread truth, and that&#39;s what makes this show cool, still, despite it all. It&#39;s still defying expectations.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 1:59 a.m. CST

    Alison LaPlaca

    by cold lazarus

    Isn&#39;t she one of those Ted McGinley actors, you know, the ones whose appearance is an instant Jump the Shark? Ha, ha. Joking.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 3:02 a.m. CST

    a completely insane theory

    by darkguyver

    I&#39;ve been up for twenty-four hours and I&#39;ve just come up with an insane theory on how this season will end. What if Buffy has been dreaming since Restless and the last season and a half have been a dream. It&#39;s a stupid theory I know but what the hell. I still like the show I just think that too much weird stupid things have happened. So her thing with Spike is just one bad nightmare. Anyone who doesn&#39;t like this theory can go to hell it&#39;s mostly just a joke. Did anyone here ever watch the show without reading the spoilers? Just curious.

  • Stronger ep than I expected, more varied than before, yet not so cohesive. We finally get some Buffy-worthy thematic dialogue and the Spike from Afterlife! (though as others have noted, the twist with the Lolita dialogue scares me) You could just say Spike&#39;s a normal male at this point, letting his nether brain do much of the thinking. I guess you could say now that it&#39;s come to this, that Mr. Love&#39;s Bitch has gone from the love of his life to loving his nemesis, will he once and for all transcend his desire (by pushing Buffy away enough so she can work out everything inside her and helping her along the way until they can have a positive relationship) or let it blind and consume him (having emotionless sex with Buffy out back, though it probably worsens things for them)? Woah...*insight* Spike&#39;s under the addiction of a deeper form, even more so than a need for oblivion (Buffy) or power (Willow): love. Wait...I just worked that out and it isn&#39;t quite logical in its conclusions, but, instead of those, what if everything, the entire point of the Buffyverse, comes down to Buffy truly loving Spike as a soulless vampire? Angel was a caveat, and may indeed be the other side of the equation when the Big Big One comes (hm..South Cali, I bet an earthquake will be involved), but my idea about Spike being the Jesus Christ of vampires could be dead on. How many Slayers have loved real vampires? I can bet, none. Buffy showed how her love can save the world, what if, in something similar to the clause in Angel&#39;s curse, as soon as a Slayer ceases to hate her sworn enemy, but loves him truly, the mystical power of that love eradicates the demon within him, though it would kill him and in that death redeem all other vampires, perhaps eradicating them in some form also? That one&#39;s a bit far-fetched, but I firmly believe the entire TV show in all its length is important, the seasons like chapters in a book, and we all know Whedon&#39;s had an overlying scope about where this is all going, thus the introduction of Spike into Sunnydale, as well as the inclusion of all the Scoobs (under Herc&#39;s loose definition) over time, means something: he and everyone else are all going to converge at some point in time where each presence and each action is crucial: the show is the dynamics that get them to that point and undoubtedly Spike&#39;s on as dynamic a path as anyone else. He will change, is changing, and the meaning of that change is vital when that convergence point comes. We knew a long time ago that this wasn&#39;t just ordinary commercialized tv where new seasons occur only because of previous season&#39;s ratings. \\\\\\\ As for other things, it&#39;s obvious we saw the evolving DP Willow from Flooded at the end tonight (about damned time too, after that inkling): she was at an intellectual disadvantage in the argument with Amy, so she threatened with what power she really had: magic. Now, it&#39;s all a matter of how fast she gets backed into a corner before it all comes out. What a contrast from (I think it was What&#39;s My Line?) "You two (X&C) either stop arguing or get the hell out of my library!" \\\\\\\ One last spec: About the Watcher&#39;s Counsel. If Buffy is supposedly the last Slayer, then how does that make the WC appear if they can get Watchers early to train Slayers-in-Waiting? Do they know that there are no more Slayers in the world besides Buffy and Faith? Sounds like it could be a final card yet to play. It could be another prophecy they&#39;re hiding with so many telltale signs which have occurred.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 4:08 a.m. CST

    darkguyver you&#39;re not totally insane

    by MGTHEDJ

    It is in the realm of possibility. Your idea would explain the "worked as a waitress last summer" line and plays into the "Jumped the Shark" cliches of the past 2 years: new kid, singing, death, very special episode (&#39;Wrecked&#39;). It was all a dream is the ultimate cliche. You may be on to something.-----later------m

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 5:23 a.m. CST

    For My 342nd. Post In This TB: Thalya!

    by EricAlan69

    I&#39;ve been surfing the Buffy sites this evening, and you said something that struck me rather strangely- you mentioned that Willow seemed, at the end of her confrontation with Amy, as if she were subtly implying that she&#39;d use magic to fuck Amy up to kingdom come if she didn&#39;t stay away. Now, for instance, over on the Kittie board (and remember, that is a Willow/Tara forum, filled with people who are sick to death of "Tara Will Die" rumors, and who think that there is no way in hell that Willow&#39;s goin&#39; DP, and can argue this pretty convincingly), everyone took her resolve at the end ("And if you&#39;re *not* my;ll stay away from me!") to be indicative of the fact that she was firmly, finally moving past her shaky stage of withdrawl/recovery, and was moving closer to being okay again (as if Amy&#39;s little &#39;gift&#39; was finally proof of how much she truly wanted to be "sober" and get back with Tara). // And even when re-watching it, I&#39;ll be damned if I can tell which way writer&#39;s are trying to slant it- how you see that rather pivotal scene play out is almost entirely dependant on your interpretations about a *lot* of things this season....which pisses me off, because it can still go either way! See, Herc has been telling us that DP is coming, and while there are several other spoiler-sources out there, he&#39;s the only one who is still insisting it&#39;ll happen- and I tend to believe him on this one. Now, as far as a BSD goes, that seems less likely (and contrary to what other sites say, Herc has NEVER said Tara=BSD), but I still have a feeling that Willow will go dark for awhile. // Based on taking the episodes at face value, I truly am not sure where the hell this season is going. It&#39;s just a fucked-up world when there are more spoilers floating around the &#39;net about this show than any other, and there *still* isn&#39;t a concensus about where the hell we&#39;re going. // Grr. Arrgh, indeed. e.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 8:42 a.m. CST

    Crack Whore Buffy!

    by Mr. Smegma

    You nailed it NYCK! A blank, spent Buffy serving as a fleshy receptacle for Spike&#39;s icy splooge. The zenith of a twisted, dysfunctional relationship. Good thing she had tools for coworkers or they might&#39;ve noticed she smelled like Clorox when she came back from break. Where do we go from here? Next week we know Spike tries to save Buffy from the law, then Riley returns, and the big Xander wedding. Putting all these parts together, it is clear that Buffy and Spike split, Spike dies (by Buffy&#39;s hand or not), the wedding either blows up or leaves an extremely unstable couple, setting the stage for the only thing the writers have left for Season 7: Buffy and Xander mixing their love juices. In turn, that should leave a relatively small number of signatures needed for a Buffy feature film, the bigoff for all concerned.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 8:46 a.m. CST


    by Mr. Smegma

    Sorry, but only Freddy Prinze gets to see SMG swallow.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 9:30 a.m. CST

    No buffy!!!!

    by auroraleigh

    AAHH, Buffy was moved because of some stupid basketball game by my local UPN! I can&#39;t wait until Saturday!!!

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 10:07 a.m. CST

    Silly but amusing, & not a stinker

    by Chocky

    Silly, but entertaining. I take issue with people who think every episode of Buffy should be a work of literary genius. This ep had its high points, such as the vengeance demon&#39;s conversation with Anya - I love how Xander and Anya&#39;s relationship has become a reflection of what a lot of us have gone through IRL. The Tromeo-style (thanks for pointing that out) penis monster sprouting from an old woman&#39;s heads (her shoes were almost as disturbing). And Spike&#39;s trying to get Buffy out of the Doublemeat - that was a fine piece of acting. And some funny lines: "You&#39;re in the consumer service industry. I&#39;m a consumer. Want to service me?" The twist ending (Doublemeat is not a Soylent Green after all). And a little indictment of the fast food industry, as others have pointed out. <><><><><> Main thing I didn&#39;t like was the trashy sex scene. It pretty much negated the romantic bent of Spike&#39;s earlier visit. Can we have less fake humping please??? (Let me point out, though, there are worse characters than vampires looking to get busy with young fast food workers. I worked in a McDonald&#39;s when I was in high school so I can testify to that). <><><><><> In the promo for next week&#39;s ep, it looked like Amy was on the ground, but you know how they cut these promos - Willow might have just slugged her. Buffy&#39;s "I just killed a girl!" made it sound like she didn&#39;t know who her victim was.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 10:40 a.m. CST

    EricAlan69- Willow threat

    by Thalya

    I really think it can only go one way when it comes to that Will threat at the end. I think as far as things go, &#39;shippers of any sort in the Buffyverse aren&#39;t the most objective when it comes to the &#39;ship, myself included. What else could Willow have meant by the threat? "I&#39;ll sic Buffy on you"? People have already argued on here how Buffy wouldn&#39;t be able to fight a magic user. The only way Willow could inspire any sort of fear to enforce the "stay away" message was to imply that she&#39;d use her powers. BTW, Mr. 69, has that Python-inspired love expired yet, or..?

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 11:13 a.m. CST

    e.&#39;s Got Nothin&#39; But Love For Thalya....

    by EricAlan69

    ....Python-inspired or not. See, according to the opposing theory, that wasn&#39;t Willow making a threat to Amy as much as it was Willow standing up for Willow. And, yeah, I think it&#39;s both pretty cool and kind of scary that, depending on where one&#39;s interests in various &#39;ships lie, therein also is the interpretation of an entire season. But, personally, I think it was mostly a sign of Willow&#39;s slightly less-than noble ass-kicking side peeking out, *though not intentionally*. She wants to be clean and free, but she&#39;s still wired more naturally for supernatural pyrotechnics than for turning the other cheek..... // You know, this can give you a MAJOR headache! // e.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 11:15 a.m. CST


    by EricAlan69

    Say it with me here: No Dead Amy. Yes Dead Katrina. Katrina dead. Amy not dead. // e.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 11:18 a.m. CST


    by Spoons

    I wish I was 15 years younger or Dawn was 2 years older.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 11:40 a.m. CST

    I&#39;m surprised so many people seemed to like it

    by pedant

    I thought it sucked. Second worst Buffy I&#39;ve seen, after "Wrecked." A weak, contrived premise that is about 4 seasons too late (a 16-year old Buffy flipping burgers makes sense; a 20-year old Buffy doing the same doesn&#39;t quite ring true. It should have been Dawn on the job). A plot lifted straight from the X-Files. Distracting lapses in verisimilitude (Xander biting into his burger while STANDING AT THE COUNTER... Have you EVER seen anyone do this in real life? Fast food managers expecting their employees to make a career of it... They don&#39;t give a fuck.) Red herrings all over the place (creepy manager and co-workers set up a body-snatchers-esque premise that never pays off). No internal logic (how exactly did Buffy get into the restaurant after-hours, why was the drive-thru speaker still on, what was Buffy even DOING there, since Willow already had a perfectly good solution to this non-urgent problem, etc.) Several missed opportunities (wouldn&#39;t it have been interesting if Willow had been forced to use magic to save Buffy&#39;s life). And let&#39;s not forget the inexplicable persistence of the forced, after-school special, magic-as-drugs metaphor. Good grief, why am I still watching the show.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Tone of the episode

    by It's A Duck

    I thought this was a great episode. Very tongue-in-cheek & it didn&#39;t take itself too seriously. Stuff like how Willow got inside and the bit about the drive-thru speaker being on and zombie-like employees... it was an episode that centered around a restaurant that built its reputation around a chicken/cow BLENDED MEAT PRODUCT for Chrissakes. (Incidentally, that doesn&#39;t sound half bad.) I say it was right up there with the early episodes about Willow&#39;s robot-demon stalker and the thing with all the eggs. **** Xander eating the evidence? Saw it a mile away, but it was still funny when executed. **** Overall, a nice lighthearted episode before next week&#39;s serious "someone gets whacked" episode. (I&#39;d upload a screenshot of the preview to, but it appears the "is it Amy?" angle is now dead. Err, no pun intended.)

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 1:39 p.m. CST


    by FromHell

    nuff said

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 1:40 p.m. CST

    pre slayer life

    by wolfman911

    lots o people have been asking about what slayer life is like before the slayer is chosen. I would suggest a reading of the book The Slayer Chronicles. It shows the choosing of many slayers throughout time and history. Sometimes they knew ahead of time, sometimes they were always aware. It would depend culturally I guess. It is a pretty good book, each chapter done by a different author. As for the big bad or not, why do we sweat over whether the season goes the way we want. Lord help us geeks, but sit back and enjoy. If you dont like dont watch. There are many things afoot in the Buffyverse, we cannot know them all. Peace love and slayage.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Does anyone know...

    by calvinthefish

    how i can get my hands on the episode? My VCR didn&#39;t record! Need Buffy fix!!!!!!!!!

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Calvinthefish/Downloading The Episode

    by EricAlan69

    You could try to download it off of Morpheus/Kazaa, but I have to tell you that their service has been running for shit lately, and it may take forever to get it.... // e.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 4:03 p.m. CST


    by Weasel

    ...or the season after that should be Buffy&#39;s last one. Seriously. I love the show and I thought last night&#39;s episode was very amusing, but the series seems to be - I don&#39;t know - losing its focus? Or maybe it&#39;s just that after Joyce&#39;s death and Giles&#39; departure things changed so markedly that the show is now slowly morphing into something else. And maybe that&#39;s a good thing, too. But if you look at the re-runs of past episodes and compare them to this season&#39;s, well, the whole tone is different. These "kids" (with the exception of Dawn who seems to be doing a fast dissolve to womanhood from frame to frame)are getting rather long in the tooth. I just can&#39;t believe these folks as college age people anymore. All of them look like they could be playing single parents in some sappy TV-movie. Nick Brendon is the worst of the lot - the man is really starting to look his age, yet he still clings to that whole Xander-esque "I&#39;m a chronic smartass" thing. Great for high school, Thirtysomething Guy, but you just can&#39;t put it over any more. I my opinion it&#39;s time for the writers to start wrapping up the various storylines, get these people out into the workaday job world and start plotting out credible destinies for these wonderful characters that we&#39;ve come to love. We do not want to see this series persist long after it&#39;s death much like pathetic and much mourned "The X-Files". Jeez, then we&#39;d have to call it "Buffy the Vampire!" In my opinion, it&#39;s time for the writers to wrap up the various storylines and give credible final destinies to these characters that we have come to love.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 4:07 p.m. CST

    Willow to the rescue again: "You missed me!"

    by 93curr

    So no one but me read anything Freudian into the &#39;lesbian cutting off the head of the penis-shaped-snake-thing after it tried to ejaculate on her&#39; scene? Nope. Nothing remotely amusing here. Must be me. I&#39;m ashamed of myself. Truly. I&#39;m just proud to be reading the talkbacks from people who smiled amusedly at the intellectual highbrow Lolita reference. Heaven forfend that Herc or his followers admit reading anything into what was obviously not put there on purpose by writers who know what they&#39;re doing. Just cause David Fury takes his snakes seriously doesn&#39;t mean that Jane Espenson has to.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 4:22 p.m. CST

    93Curr: The Willow Bobbitt Story

    by EricAlan69

    Actually, there&#39;s another subtext that you&#39;re just missing: The PenisBeast&#39;s paralyzing spray, and it&#39;s effect on Buffy, symbolize the sexual stupor Buffy finds herself in with Spike, and the resourcefulness of Willow- immune to the Siren&#39;s call, as it were- is what saves her; this, then becomes the physical representation of the fact that to escape their own addictions, Willow and Buffy must stop trying to do it all alone, and turn to each other for the strength to extricate themselves. Sort of like being each-other&#39;s AA sponsor. // I&#39;ve been too busy over here telling people that Amy doesn&#39;t die next week, and that the past two seasons were *not* all a dream, to get into it here, but we&#39;ve dissected it thoroughly on both the Kittie&#39;s Board, and and AngelX&#39;s Cross & Stake Board. And, if you ask me, it&#39;s pretty god-damned funny, too. // e.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Worst Episode Ever

    by Kenstall

    nuff said

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 4:57 p.m. CST


    by Lt. Torello

    Just wondering. For all I know, someone&#39;s already addressed this, but there&#39;s too much spoilage in the talkbacks. I like my Buffy surprises to be, y&#39;know, surprising. By the way, I agree -- normal figured SMG looked much better in the high school eps. She&#39;s got honest-to-God breasts in Season 1.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 5:06 p.m. CST


    by Lt. Torello

    No question Spike&#39;s on the side of the angels now. One of the show&#39;s subtexts is change and redemption and much like we&#39;re seeing Cordy become a better person on "Angel," we&#39;re seeing spike become a kinder, if not-so-gentler vampire. Those who say he&#39;s only doing it to score with Buffy are forgetting a couple things: 1) When Joyce died, he brought flowers with no card indicating who they were from; 2) After Buffy died, he stuck around and helped the Scoobies fight the good fight; 3) He continued to look after Dawn; 4) He ordered Willow to remove any traces of affection for him from the Buffybot. "I know I&#39;m a monster, but you treat me like a man." With Giles gone, Spike now rules the show.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 6:07 p.m. CST

    Manager&#39;s office?

    by Spoons

    Like NewYorkKid, I thought they were outside in the alley.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 6:20 p.m. CST

    This has probably been covered already...

    by Count Asterisk

    but two episodes ago Willow used the Invisibility Gun. Wasn&#39;t the gun part science and part magic? Doesn&#39;t using the Invisibility gun count as doing magic? I thought she was supposed to be going cold turkey.

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 7:54 p.m. CST


    by Albert

    The comparison between the Dark Phoenix storyline and the (strictly conjectured) Willow/Big Bad theory is that Willow became gradually more and more powerful as a witch - Jean Grey became powerful right away, merging in space with the "Phoenix force." But yes, the power did drive her crazy, although it was revealed later that the Phoenix force actually exchanged places with Jean, and secured Jean in a cocoon in the east river, not discovered until years laters in X-FACTOR #1. The Phoenix force later bonded with Rachel Summers, Cyclops and Jean&#39;s long-lost child from an alternate future, and she didn&#39;t go crazy, but she did have to switch dimensions so Captain Britain could come back to ours. So she&#39;s gone for a while. Also, there was a Jean Grey clone, namely Madeline Pryor. I&#39;m not sure what this has to do with Willow, but Willow did have that evil Vamp Willow running around and causing trouble for a while. Finally, someone questioned why he thought Jean&#39;s code name was Marvel Girl - well, it was, for the early, pre-All New, All Different X-Men #1 stuff. Albert

  • Jan. 30, 2002, 7:55 p.m. CST

    Pedant . . .

    by alferdog01

    . . . hit the nail on the head, as far as I&#39;m concerned. Another awful episode. The training video was hilarious, especially the noises coming out of the slaughtering process, followed by Buffy&#39;s "Holy crap!" From there, however, the show got real slow and boring, and then devolved into a grosser-than-it-needed-to-be episode with a crappy sci-fi monster, like the X-Files did all last season (remember the thing that crawled up Scully&#39;s spine?!?) Three thoughts. First, of course Willow was making a threat to Amy. It&#39;s foreshadowing--Amy and Rack kill Tara, Willow goes back to magic in a big way to get some vengeance, they trap her as a kind of unthinking magic battery, Buffy teams up with the Nerds to suck her magic out, then she kills Rack and Warren and Amy become Sunnydale&#39;s evil couple next season. FutureGuy outlined all this, in detail, a couple weeks ago. Keep up, kids. Second, not only did Buffy look like a 12-year-old in that outfit, she looked like a 12-year-old BOY. What the hell happened there? Third, and finally, as I scream at the TV everytime someone reminds Buffy to get a job, why in the hell doesn&#39;t she become a cop? She has all the physical skills and could pass the academy easily, the pay is good, and it fits right into the slayer role--hell, she&#39;d probably hear of vampire attacks over the police scanner before she would have learned of them otherwise. Angel has handled the "we need money" thing SO much better than BTVS this season. And there&#39;s no freakin&#39; reason Buffy can&#39;t become a doctor or lawyer or whatever--go to school, slay at night, why the hell not? Batman, Daredevil, the Hulk, Superman, and even Spiderman all balanced high-power day jobs and the fight against evil. Why can&#39;t Buffy?

  • Jan. 31, 2002, 12:36 a.m. CST

    Replacement manager was Kirsten Nelson

    by travisc

    She was last seen playing the young Mrs. Landingham in the flasback to Pres. Bartlett&#39;s youth in last year&#39;s WEST WING season finale. But if some of you mistaked her for that hack, Alison La Placa, well then, God, I don&#39;t even want to know ya.

  • Jan. 31, 2002, 12:42 a.m. CST

    Replacement manager was Kirsten Nelson

    by travisc

    mistook. <sigh> "To read makes our speaking English good."

  • Jan. 31, 2002, 11:14 a.m. CST

    to comment futher

    by sunflr

    wheew! I have skimmed through the messages and am exhausted. I think everything I am interested in and have opinions about has been discussed at length. But if I could make a couple comments . . . 1) I agree about the gratuitous sex with B and Spike. B has been a lil trampy in the past but now she has gone to a whole new level. 2) Why was Anya&#39;s friend in her demon face the whole ep? When Anya first appeared and granted Cordy&#39;s wish she wasn&#39;t all demon-faced until she granted the wish. 3) It was a good ep but seems to be fluff for future eps.

  • Jan. 31, 2002, 4:14 p.m. CST

    the show came back &#39;wrong&#39;

    by dwam0

    I&#39;m really starting to get the feeling that all these wrong time lines (Buffy working as a waitress last summer, the difference in time when Buffy did Spike that first time, etc.) have to clues as to what&#39;s really going on. It just can&#39;t all be bad writing. We&#39;ve all thought of better jobs Buffy could get, why doesn&#39;t she think of it (she can&#39;t be that stupid)? There has been no foreshadowing that magic was addicitive or harmful to the users, but all of a sudden Willow is addictive? And Spike is EVIL everyone, he has killled innocent people in Sunnydale and elsewhere. I understand his fondness for Buffy, but his attachment to Dawn is puzzling. I would be an ugly twist if he got back at Buffy, once she spurns him, by taking up with her little sister. But I think he is being set up for death. There is just no where for his character to go, except some kind of leader of vamps and demons in Sunnydale.

  • Feb. 1, 2002, 12:52 a.m. CST


    by ruyen

    BUFFY FAN CLUB of HOUSTON Email us if interested in being on the mailing list with other Houston fans of Buffy. It is a way for people to meet other Buffy fans to talk and hang out with. Newsletters are frequently sent out as well. -ruyen ------------------------------------------- The Buffy Fan Club of Houston [Email to join]

  • I remember a time about five five years ago when I had an opportunity to speak with Marti Noxxon at my place of employment. I was actually thrilled to tell the producer that I loved all of her work and that I couldn&#39;t wait for more ... Well that was then... Today UPN&#39;s Buffy is starting to make me seriously nauseous ... Ill to the point of tossing the old television out of the window (Much like SCTV) ... this fucking dung heap of a show is on it&#39;s last legs and anyone who doesn&#39;t believe that needs to put the bong down ... Josh Wedon seems to be slumming until he can come up with something better, or he just be lining his pockets with cash from a desperate network ... Marti Noxxon just doesn&#39;t seem to be taking up the slack and it shows... It really shows in the show&#39;s content and character. I really didn&#39;t need to see several episodes of protracted soap dramma... The destruction of Buffy&#39;s character, the annoying little bitch of a sister,the ever blandness of Xander&#39;s character,Willow&#39;s "magic" addiction and the unofficial "Buffy/Spike" porno ...This hurts because I used to respect Wedon&#39;s product and Noxxon&#39;s writing ... But fact is fact ... THEY SUCK !!! ... DO THE "REAL" FANS A FAVOR JOSH !!!!...Cancel the show please....... Mondotoken out.... BEEEEOOOOOOTTTTTTCCCCHHHHH!!!!!!! P.S. Gotta&#39; start reading novels again.

  • Feb. 2, 2002, 2:36 a.m. CST

    To Mondotoken

    by MKL2112

    I respect your opinion, but his name is "JOSS."

  • Feb. 5, 2002, 9:48 p.m. CST

    Silly episode

    by CadmiumX

    This episode was rediculous! Maybe I was taking it too seriously, but I just thought it was way to corny! I can&#39;t believe you gave it 3 1/2 stars and the new Roswell ep only 2 1/2.