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Jr Mintz Tells You How To Help Get SONG OF THE SOUTH On DVD and Video!!!
Hey folks, Harry here with that darlin' chicky babe, Junior Mintz with her crusade of the day... GETTING SONG OF THE SOUTH RELEASED ON DVD AND HOME VIDEO!!! I just recently watched FAST AND THE FURIOUS on Dvd and saw an embedded introduction warning that the car stunts and driving in the following film were performed by highly skilled stunt drivers and shouldn't be copied. Well, SONG OF THE SOUTH needs an introduction to put the period of the film in context. A notable person to tell the context for the story. That it was set in Reconstruction. That it is based upon tales that came from the African-American culture... the folk tales told whilst in slavery. Much like Aesop's Fables. Personally SONG OF THE SOUTH is one of my favorite films of all time. It only needs to be rediscovered and it will be embraced. This film is a masterpiece.
Howdy, Br'er Headgeek!
I'm sure most of your sharper animation/Disney fans already know this, but
for the unenlightened, Disney Home Video is running a vote-in poll to see if
they should release SONG OF THE SOUTH on DVD/video. This has been a source
of controversy for years. While the cartoon segments featuring Br'er Rabbit
and friends are pure gold, a number of PC types feel the film's live-action
Plantation-era segments make the film tabu to modern young audiences. True,
public tastes change, but that's no reason to lock a G-rated film, once
called a family classic, away from human eyes for all time.
If the mouse turns chicken and decides not to do their usual wide video
release, I think they should zap it out as part of their swanky metal-boxed
DISNEY TREASURES DVD line. That way it goes right to collectors and
animation fans who can buy it either on line or at their local DVD specialty
stores, thus skipping the overly-sensitive, quick-to-bitch 'rents who buy the
tamer Disney crud out the supermarket check-out.
Click here to cast your vote and hopefully we'll soon be headed for the
laffin' place.
HREF="http://psc.disney.go.com/disneyvideos/moviefinder/products/0153103.html"
>
http://psc.disney.go.com/disneyvideos/moviefinder/products/0153103.html
Junior Mintz
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I hope the Mouse is seriously considering this, and not just putting up a poll to placate fans who've been petitioning for years to get the film out. While the movie's never been a top-tier Disney flick for me, I do get wistful for it every time I ride Splash Mountain, and wonder how the Diz can withhold the movie itself while keeping Brer Rabbit as a classic Disney character. Hrmm. Anyhow, Jr Mintz, your concept of the film being treated as a COLLECTABLE as opposed to a wide clamshell release is ideal. Get the film out there with plenty of historic contextual material, but keep it out of the hands of Wal Mart shoppers who'll curse the Mouse for racism.....
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Did you see the part in the upper right-hand corner of the page that said Click Here, wherein you could fill out a form Email with comments to support the release of the film on either VHS or DVD?
No? Amazing.
Brilliant work, CornFlakeGuy.
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Jan 21, 2002 8:40:34 AM CST
Brilliant idea! And how about an "Amos n' Andy" box set!
by spacepervert
I haven't seen this in years, but I remember it puts an unpleasant saccharine gloss over an unpleasant period of history. Don't give me any of that apologist "you're just being PC" crap, it's revisionist and it's racist, in the same way that "Little Sambo" was racist. By all means, a collector shouldn't be denied the chance to own a copy of this (fuck censorship, yadda yadda), so I AGREE with the selective release, but it certainly shouldn't be marketed as suitable viewing for Disney's target audience. Not when it portrays some kind of golden age of innocence where everyone knew their place. Don't confuse changing tastes with social conscience.
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Jan 21, 2002 8:44:22 AM CST
Just pulled this off an IMDB review (own opinions not stated):
by spacepervert
"It is sad that any movie which depicts slaves as happy with their life and respectful of their masters cannot receive a fair accounting in today's politically correct environment. Certainly it is true that many slaves were mistreated and abused. However it must be recognized that some slaves were well cared for and well thought of. Surely the full range of possible human reactions would have resulted from such varying conditions. While some slaves would have indeed been angry and rebellious (as is the current socially accepted way to depict them), some would have been quite content with their circumstances, and would have even been fond of their owners!" ****** Yeah, I bet they keep the tar and feathers handy too... jaysus...
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We must do everything to get rid of this "thing" so that our children will grow up in a universe were everything is clinically sterile and will grow up completely unprepared for real life. Let us ban anything that could even remotely hurt their cuddly little feelings. We all know children are pure and innocent and we must do everything we can to keep them that way until their 18th birthday ! We must avoid cultural references that have no connection with their direct environment, reinforce the familliar and do nothing to expand their views or risk the danger of turning them into *gasp* fully developed individuals !!! If like me you believe that the world can only make better by making kids believe that everything is fluffy and has a happy end, please call Disney and ask for them to destroy all known copies. We must exorcise all demons and evils of the world by pretending they don't exist and will never affect our children. Children in their natural state cannot hate, cannot be angry and will never cry if we bathe them in perpetual sugar and political correctness. Song of the South depicts our African American friends as wise old slaves, a view that is not consistent with current perceptions of African Americans today. It is wrong to show children slavery, especially since the practice was long banned. it has no relevance to the world today. I'm sure that re-releasing this movie will hurt African American feelings all over the ghetto. I'm morally offended by the very idea of bringing up such notions today and gloss them over with happy little tales of bunny wabbits speaking in clearly racist accents ! Song of the South is the source of all evil on this planet ! Exposing our children to this would have terrible consequences for their progressively liberal politically correct upbringing.
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Anyone who calls this movie racist is a fucking idiot. The original Brer Rabbit stories by Uncle Remus are American mythology, important in any understanding of Civil War and Reconstruction era South and the evolution of racial relations in this country. In this film, which is set after slavery was abolished, Uncle Remus is a free man. No gloss is placed on anything. There are strained relations due to color, and the point of the film is that a child's love, colorblind in a way that we all should hope to emulate, is able to bridge those differences. The film is also important in any understanding of the evolution of mixing live-action and animation. There are many, many reasons this is important and worth re-releasing. I have yet to hear one valid reason for keeping it away from the public. If you claim it's racist, you better be prepared to back it up with an opinion based on a viewing sometime this fucking millennium. Otherwise, go cry to someone who hasn't seen it.
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I recently purchased a copy of SOTS from Ebay in PAL format (it has been available in the UK for some time...though it has just been pulled)...I have a NTSCPAL vcr, so I could make a copy for my mother-in-law (the reason for the purchase)...the film has not aged well...the animation sequences are fine (though not PC), the live action would make the NAACP livid...I understand Disney's decision...they don't want the flack!
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First, all the black actors get snubbed at the Golden Globes now they release this racist piece of garbage. I saw it years ago and though it has some memorable songs (Zipedy Do Dah) it really makes you cringe. I guess it's notable for historic purposes (like Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation) but it really isn't something you should show the kids. And there is an Amos & Andy box set that can be ordered by mail. By friends grandfather has them all.
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Really, I have about 4 words for all ya'. "Gone With The Wind". It portrays african americans in a horrible light as well, but OH! It's *fine* to show the kiddies. My cousin just watched it in his 5th grade class. That's a *classic, non-racist* movie there. Shit. If we can be subjected to "Oh! Miss Scarlett! I didn't know! *SLAP*", then we can have fucking Song Of The South on DVD as well. At least the questionable steriotype is fucking free in that one. Sheesh.
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This movie is about children going to see an old man who entertains them with stories that teach certain morals and values. The tar baby is a curiousity killed the cat story, the briar patch is wits over strength, etc. The tales are told in the vernacular of the old man, which is influenced by the culture in which he was raised, so naturally his characters take on that flavor. The old man just happens to be black. I guess that's just awful that a freed slave would speak like that. Here we have a movie showing a black man teaching WHITE kids about positive things, and a bunch of mouthbreathers don't want our children today watching it?!? Who's the racist here? Stop trying to revise the history of our country, and I mean including our cinema! Fuck off the lot of you! AD out
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Seems most of the people who rant about the flick's supposed racism are seeing it thru jaded adult eyes, accustomed to seeing racism wherever it glints. The movie is far more innocent than you make it out to be. When I saw it as a child, I never made any connection between the animated characters and 'black caricatures'...they're ANIMALS, and I never thought of them as anything else. I wouldn't classify the film as a Masterpiece, but it is a Classic.
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But it shouldn't be marketed towards a family audience. There is nothing innocent about this film, not anymore.
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Dear Harry,
Pardon my rant, but someone has to say it. This is a two-point story, so please bare with me.
First point: This past Christmas season, my father wanted more than anything to give his granddaughter, my niece, a copy of "Song of the South". He had seen it as a child and considers it to be the all time greatest children's animated film, and wanted to share with little Katelin the film that he enjoyed as a child. After an extensive search of the web and e-bay and calling in favors from numerous friends, I finally had to give up on acquiring a copy of the film in NTSC format (the standard American video format), simply because "Song of the South" is only available in PAL format (the standard European video format), and transferring the video formats would cost me upwards of $70. So, unfortunately, little Katelin received a digital speak and spell.
Second point: I am a 30-year-old man with a BA in Theatre and a passion for movies and classic television. After all of my years of studies and interests, only last year did I stumble across a collection of Amos and Andy. After viewing a few episodes it was apparent the Amos and Andy was perhaps the funniest, most talent ridden and influential television shows of its time, far better than The Honeymooners or I love Lucy. I then came to the startling realization that I was woefully ignorant to this video gem simply because I had been protected from what our cultural watchdogs had deemed a horribly racist institution.
What is the connection? Isn't it apparent? In our rush to protect our children from closed-minded thinking, we have ourselves closed our minds to beautiful and wondrous things in the name of censorship based on our overcompensation for and oversensitivity to the horrible visage of racism. Must my niece be sentenced to ignorance as I was simply because our culture doesn't trust that she, as I, would be able to judge such things not by the color of it's skin, but by the content of it's character?
As for Amos and Andy, it is a bit too late for that controversy, but I feel that I can recover from the ignorance cast upon me for my own protection. As for Song of the South, I fear that little Katelin may never be able to recover from this bout with corporate censorship. I would ask that Disney please show a bit of character of it's own and release Song of the South in American DVD format and allow us to make our own decisions about what is proper and improper to show our children and trust in our ability to view such works of art in a relative context.
Sincerely,
LeRoy Tibbets
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SotS was the first movie I ever saw, and I've never seen it since. It may be a horribly racist piece o' shit, but I will judge that for myself when I finally get to see it with adult eyes. If I can see Gone With The Wind, Birth of a Nation or The Jazz Singer, I should be able to see this.
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If you're going to get personal, screw you. If you bothered to read on, my point was " a collector shouldn't be denied the chance to own a copy of this (fuck censorship, yadda yadda), so I AGREE with the selective release, but it shouldn't be MARKETED as suitable viewing for Disney's target audience." Too many dumb fucks never read before they rant. So come on, show how eloquent you are, flame on. Fuck, I give up.
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What some people fail to realize, is that the very name UNCLE REMUS is a derogatory term for an old black man that dates back to the slavery days. So even the NAME of the main character is questionable. I own SONG OF THE SOUTH on PAL Video format, I also own Birth of a Nation, and Gone With the Wind (which is actually the most racist out of the three)and yes I am an African American.
Song of the South is RACIST but not in a vile, insidious way. But racism is racism all of the same. That said it definitely should be released, but NOT marketed towards children. And why in the world was this posted on MARTIN LUTHER KING's birthday of all days? What were you thinking Harry? -
The character of Huclkeberry Finn evolved from an ordinary racist southern boy into a worldly well rounded young man and that Jim was a father figure. His use of the word "nigger" illustrated how backwards he was. Unlike the Song of the South, Twain refused to gloss over the reality of the south at that time. So please don't but Song of the South and Huckleberry Finn in the same category.
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It should be released. I don't believe in censorship at all. And I agree that THE PATRIOT is incredibly misguided. And one could argue that Song of the South started the whole racist "Magic Nigger" trend that continues today in films like THE GREEN MILE, and the LEGEND OF BAGGAR VANCE (two very racist movies IMHO). Films that feature wise and even magical black men who, rather than help themselves, are content to serve white men and their needs. SIDE NOTE: did you know that when slaves sung those Spirituals, that they were actually songs of PROTEST, cleverly written to hide that fact from the masters. And a master treating a slave kindly is an oxymoron, the simple fact of owning a person is cruelty enough.
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Just imagine... "Mesa called Jar Jar Binks and this here's mesa faaavorite movie!" Then he rolls his eyes and grins and Qui-Gon comes out and says "Boy what are you doing sittin' around watchin' the picture show? You gots chaws to do!" But seriously, I saw the most hideously rascist cartoon about a year and a half ago in a THEATER as a short before "Raiders of the Lost Ark". In it, Daffy Duck crash lands on Elmer Fudd's farm and agrees to become Fudd's slave in exchange for his life. He grovels and says stuff like "please don't whip me massa" and later, disguised as Abraham Lincoln, emancipates himself. So let's put "Song of the South" in perspective, shall we? sk
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Even their recent releases smack of racism, like Aladdin: heroes have american accents and look white, villais speak with arabic accents and have significantly darker skin, and Pocahontas: silly indians!
So, what's the big deal? Well, this one strikes a little closer to home. By all means, release it, but please parents, explain it to your kids. -
No doubt racism is a touchy thing, but I think it's something that even a child can be taught to understand. I see no reason why this film shouldn't be given a wide release. I am fully capable of parenting my own child and do not require others to do it for me. Oh, and just for the record, the NAACP has no objection to this film whatsoever.
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it's not censorship unless the GOVERNMENT directs it. corporate entities have the right to distribute whatever material they see fit and likewise withhold any material that they feel would be received negatively by their consumers. get your definitions right. deep 13 out. push the button, frank.
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and mosdef your observations are dead on. i'm so tired of people who feel the need to point out "perceived" racism just so they can get up on a soapbox and declare me a racist by default because i'm white. unlike the typical self-congratulatory ass who has discovered how easy it is to cry racist at every slight, real or imagined, you approach your point with a desire to improve things and not a desire for accusation. your constructive exchange with devilcat (also some great points) illustrates your ability to express your views without using personal attacks in a solely self-aggrandizing manner. if more people expressed themselves in this way racism would soon be nothing more than an historical phenomenon. deep 13 out. push the button, frank.
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Since you asked a "civil" question, you get a civil answer. I haven't read Huck Finn, so I don't feel qualified to comment on it. I've read the adventures of Brer Rabbit out loud to a kid cousin, and had no problem with that. I might still have a copy of "Sambo" if I haven't thrown it out, and if you can't see that stereotypical jungle-bunny image as a piece of nasty colonial condescencion, then I'm amazed. It might not be the degree of racism that leads to slavery, but it certainly leads to a missionary attitude, if you get me. As for SotS, I think we've all been pretty well schooled by MOSDEF. Thanks, Dude. Now this goes to you, Moriarty. I think I already stated I hadn't seen it in years, what's more, I'm white and I don't live in America. This doesn't devalue my opinion, and it doesn't give you the right to call me a fucking idiot. Please, argue with me, but don't insult my intelligence.
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did you coin the phrase "magic nigger"? it's exactly perfect for describing the use of african-americans in a million stephen king books (for instance the stand, the shining, the dark tower, the green mile and probably more i can't recall).
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Disney should hang their heads in shame ! "Song of the South" is in NO way a racist movie. Believe me, I've seen it very recently, as it's officially available here in the UK, and I have it right here in my video library. First off, the film is set in the post-slavery era. It concerns a boy who learns some homespun wisdom from a wise elder. The stories have a simple, pertinemt philosophy, which the boy learns to apply to his own life. That's it ! It so happens that the kid is white, and the elder is black. No disparaging remarks are made about either one's skin color, if anything, Uncle Remus is the holder of the knowledge. It sort of makes him...well....the Obi Wan if we were talking "Star Wars" The blind master who befriended Caine if we were talking "Kung Fu". People who take offense at this movie really should find something better to do. It shows that anything is offensive if you look hard enough for long enough.Disney should release it in the States. The sales will speak for themselves, and I don't think it'll be the Ku Klux Klan buying it.
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I personally feel that this movie is being overvalued for the very reason that it's unavailable. The fact that Disney doesn't want it released is bringing more attention to it than it perhaps deserves, and so people become convinced that it's some kind of lost classic that's being unfairly buried. Isn't it at least possible that it's really not as good a movie as you remember it being? This is part of the problem with these sorts of contraversies: they tend to turn mediocre films into fan favorites. Speaking for myself, I have no real desire to see it again, and the racist elements are only part of the reason.
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That's an interesting point, and I'm sure there are several people on here who haven't seen the movie in decades. I hadn't. On a family trip to WDW, I rode Splash Mountain with my kids, and realised with the bombardment of questions I was subjected to, that they had no idea who these characters were. When we got back to the UK, I bought a copy...(for a reasonably priced PAL original copy go talk to the good folks at www.blackstar.co.uk and they'll sort you out) so I could own it before the MouseHouse took it off the shelves. I still don't think it's racist.
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The Disney cartoon that's being withheld from the public that I would most like to see re-released is the 1943 cartoon in which Donald Duck has a nightmare that he is forced to work in a Nazi ammunitions factory. I'm not sure if it is being withheld because of the racist elements in the drawing of Hirohito, and/or because the Disney folk are worried that making fun of the German dictatorship might be seen as tasteless now. I saw this cartoon a few years ago at a special showing at the L.A. County Art Museum, and I thought it was a wonderful piece of wartime propaganda, although I can understand why the Disney people might be a little squeemish about releasing it. But if they're going to release "Song Of The South," they have no excuse not to release "Der Feuhrer's Face."
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Following my last tb, I just checked on the Blackstar website, and they show it as deleted. This is a dark day ! Sorry if I raised any false hopes, it wasn't intentional.
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This is the first movie I ever saw as well. I am so sick of people calling this racist. This is Unca Walt's love letter to black culture in this country. It wasn't supposed to be offensive. And from the time I saw it, I seem to recall that Uncle Remus was loving and wise while most of the white people in the movie were boring idiots! I can understand not widely releasing this as a "masterpiece" in a clam-shell package, but then that should be true of many of their films. (I loved Hercules, but masterpiece? Feh!) I'm tired of people looking for things to offend them. Trying to ban Mark Twain, Amos and Andy and Song of the South. I'm part Cherokee, but I'm not offended by The Searchers or Birth of a Nation. Nor am I offended by the Minnesota Vikings while I'm part Sweedish or Hogan's Heroes while I'm part German. Thicker hides, people!
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Thanks to Ebay, I finally got a tape of ALL the Max Fleischer "Superman" cartoons. I've been after these for a while, as anybody who knows me would testify. My God.....the propaganda in some of those is juuuuuuuust jaw dropping. A standout is "Japoteurs". Another is "Eleventh Hour". It's interesting I guess, to see the perspecive held back then. Uncomfortable, though.
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But wasn't this the first major motion picture to feature a black actor in the lead role? I'm actually asking because I think it's true, but I'm not at all for sure. If it is true, that's reason enough to release it.
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I actually have a copy of Spike and the gang's song from "Der Feuhrer's Face" and it's hysterical. Funny how Germans are the only nationality that can be mocked; If Raiders of the Lost Ark had featured Japanese soldiers instead of Nazis, it wouldn't be available in any form now. (Just look at the outrage over Pearl Harbor, even though it was EXTREMELY glossed over.) As far as banned cartoons goes, another that you won't find anywhere is "Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips." Try locating that one... Frankly I'm in shock the Mouse House released Dumbo. I'm going to buy a copy simply because I have a sneaking suspicion its going to dissapear into the vault as well, despite the fact that the crows are some of the best characters ever on film.
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In the book, Sambo's parents are named "Black Mumbo" and "Black Jumbo." If that isn't racist, I don't know what is. Except maybe these illustrations from the book:
http://www.sterlingtimes.co.uk/sambo.htm
Now THAT is racist.
But getting back on topic, defending the use of Stepin Fetchit voices by saying "Some slaves might have talked like that" is preposterous. Well, some MIGHT have, but if you apply that to all the slaves... you're stereotyping. -
Racism - The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others
Prejudice - Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
Based on my viewing of a PAL copy about 7 months ago, I see this movie as conforming to neither of the above definitions. Now sterotypical (embodying or conforming to a set image or type), yes. But a sterotype has never to my knowledge caused anyone any REAL or PERCIEVED harm. While my memories of seeing the movie as a child were distorted by the passage of 25+ years, I forced myself into a mindset WITHOUT the PC BRAINWASHING we all have undergone, and found it to be a delightful, if dated story. The collectors edition idea is a good one, but wider release will allow the public to make up their own mind, and the storm will be brief. -
http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/sots.htm
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Jan 21, 2002 6:32:53 PM CST
Now let me get this straight...a black man offers sage advice to
by uncapie
We spend so much time on this PC bullshit, that we don't understand how to get along with each other. To me, PC is racist and destroys the communication barrier between people instead of having them make their own decisions. You film buffs say that you want to fight for the rights against censorship, yet polical correctness is just another word for control by some other party. Film is art and if you don't like it, you don't have to look at it.
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From a white guy from Texas who stated before he likes to collect blackface memoribilia. PC or not, I just can't get over how racist Hollywood is at the moment. Blackhawk Down should be called Black Man Down - more black people die in its two hours plus length than in all the Hollywood movies released in the past ten years - and not one of them is humanized. Will Smith gets snubbed by Russell Crowe (who hardly needs any more recognition) who seems to have committed some sort of crime in portraying a physical black man as an internalized and intelligent black man. Then there's that whole James Earl Jones memorial plaque thanking James Early Ray (who was convicted of shooting MLK)... I ain't white or black, but I feel lately that being black in this country must suck - especially when mainstream culture posits as black role models idiots like P. Diddy. Song of the South deserves a release as a historical document - but not treated as some sort of Disney classic. Nor is it one of the greatest movies of all time. It's just another shamefaced lie, excused as harmless for its historical value, when all it really is is a Disney endorsement of how nice slavery must've been. Fucking crazy ass country.
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Third times a charm i suppose. Today i've read an aussie actor guy pearce and the mirror a UK tab bash southerners. F*** OFF residents of United Kingdom and your commonwealth brethren.
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I can't take credit for the "magic nigger" term, I got it from Chris Rock.
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Even though the poll did not relate to the eventual release of SotS......do notice that the page has a UPC number listed as well as technical specs of Dolby Digital 2.0......it might be a sign they are ready to announce the release?
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C'mon, people. This is another good cause: get another Miyazaki masterpiece on DVD! You owe it to yourself to also ask for special features, as well, like dual languages, docs, and interviews. Thanks, Disney(tm), for putting up the video voting pages, by the way! Just find 'Kiki' by searching for it, vote, and then cross your fingers...
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my girlfriend got me to watch kiki's delivery service and i was surprised by how much i enjoyed it (not normally being a fan of anime). and it turned out that phil hartman did the voice of gigi the cat in the english version!
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I cannot stress this enough. You keep pegging this film as racist. Check your dictionaries. Racism is a doctrine that inherent differences in various races determine cultural or individual achievements, ususally involving that one race is superior. Now, I admit it has been decades since I saw SotS, but WHERE IS THE MAN KEEPING UNCLE REMUS DOWN?!? He dispenses wisdom to a child. WHERE'S THE PROBLEM?!? Is it because the movie is set in the years following the Civil War?!? Because the man doesn't speak with the eloquence of a MLK or JFK?!? So fucking what! It is a stronger testament that a man who came from a crappy situation and may not have received an education can still have something worthwhile to say and has a clever way of saying it. Stopping riding the saddlehorn on your PC horses, apply some PrepH, and fucking do a reality check! Someone said something about this movie "in these times"... WTF- it all of a sudden became a bad thing? The only bad thing is you people kotowing to the PC god and spewing your bile on the rest of us! I saw this movie as a young impressionable kid, and it did not 'damage' me. Are children more fragile now? Put the movie out there.*****And I think today is a great day for people around the world to be having discussions on racism! MLK and other black leaders would be proud. Discussion and debate is what they thrived on, not sweeping shit under the rug and pretending it don't stink. AD out.
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Jan 21, 2002 11:39:58 PM CST
Uncle Remus has some corn mash and cheats on Abe Lincoln...
by quasimike
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You can pull out all the dictionary definitions of racism you like, and analyze the situations in the film until you're blue in the face, but there's a lot more to racism than the technical definition. Personally, I don't think any white man is qualified to judge whether a piece is guilty of black racism, any more than a man is qualified to decide whether something is mysoginistic. Maybe that's a bit of an overstatement, but if a black man, or any person, watches a movie, and comes away feeling angry and insulted, then clearly something happened, and none of your learned discourses can change that. Okay, it's your opinion that "Song of the South" is not offensive. But that opinion isn't categorically "right" any more than an opinion on whether or not it's a good film.
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I really do try to have an open mind about other cultures. I had just read the guy pearce interview and the mirror uk story saying awful things about US Southerners, so i do apologize for my outburst.
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No, Spike Lee shouldn't do the commentary on the DVD. Not alone, anyway... You need him, Maya Angelo, Bryant Gumble, Jesse Jackson, Chris Rock, and Chuck D all commentating at once. Also, Disney should donate 300% of the sales from the DVD to the NAACP, Rainbow Push, and the UNCF (100% for each). Thus, not only does Disney have a defense against the claim that they're 'releasing a racist film for money', they can also say they're LOSING MONEY in the process! But why would Disney do this, you might ask... Simple: Action Figures! That's right, a whole line of SOTS action figure, children's clothing, and video games! While they won't make a dime off the video, they'll make a killing on all the toys and games they sell to everyone!
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I say lock the movie in a vault & seal it with these others offensive films:
Gone w/ The Wind, Glory, Roots: All are insensitive to African Americans. All show slavery existed and are an attempt by the (white)filmmakers to keep the black man down. Roots is by far the worst offender because it shows slaves in shackles & has black people speaking in stilted english. We all know aill Black people speak like Roscoe Lee Brown just as all white people speak like Lawrence Olivier.
Driving Ms. Daisy, In the Heat of The Night: Post Civil War depiction of a friendship between a white woman & a black man. It is one starship short of science fiction. "I'm tryin to take you to da sto." In my many years in South Ga., I have never met a black man who speaks that way. Puuuuure Fantasy. Of course all the white sherrifs talk like Rod Steiger. Abso-friggin-lutely.
Holocaust, Schindler's List and The Diary of Anne Frank: Shows Jews in shackles. While not slavery, could bring about distressing parallels. If we're trying to eliminate slavery from cinema, let's wipe this out too. too distasteful. Also all depict Germans and Nazis in a bad light. Hey! They were people too! They have feelings.
By wiping out all records of the Holocaust and Nazis, we must now eliminate all war movies and their derivatives. The Italians, Japanese, Russians, Koreans, Iraqis, Vietnamese, et al. would not like their images tarnished by bad depictions. Goodbye MASH, Saving Private Ryan, Pearl Harbor (maybe not a bad thing), Tora Tora Tora, Mr. Roberts, Casablanca etc
Wait! There are others!
Do The Right Thing: Blacks & Italian Americans depicted as reactionary and violent
Dances with Wolves: White Guy leads Indians
The Quiet Man: All Irishmen are drunks & brawlers
The Godfather Epic: Italian MOBSTERS!
Scarface: Puerto Rican MOBSTERS
West Side Story: I've never seen a gang...let alone one that sang.
The Little Rascals: Multi Cultural Orphans!
The list goes on...
Just to be safe...don't watch anything. Don't expose yourself to how anything was or is historically. Just watch test patterns (but not the ones with the Naitive American head on it). Hollywood is the Devil's right arm. History must be revised on a daily basis so we can forever be at odds with one another.
Hell what can we learn from a story about a little white boy's unconditional friendship and...gasp...love with a black man anyway.
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...the Brits and the French supported the South during the war effort because they were getting cheap cotton. They also supplied the North. The Czar Of Russia had two battleships in San Francisco harbor that were readily available to the North if France and England declared war on the North and joined up with the South. This could have been the first world war if England and France didn't back down. If the PC police don't want people to see this movie released, then they are guilty of their own censorship laws they're trying to inflict on others. I say release it. You don't like it? Don't watch it. They're are hundreds of thousands of films out there you can view.
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To those who say they watched SoTS and found it to NOT be racist, I ask: How old are you? For a film released in the forties, it is pretty hard to imagine that any of us were alive at the time of this movie's release; much less old enough to remember the context of the times.
These are the forties. For the most part, the Armed Forces are still segregated, lynching (altough documented) is still prevelant, and most major American Cities still do not have at least one Black Officer on their police force. Slavery is not yet Hundred Years old. The WPA is, in fact, able to gather personal stories of Slavery, experienced by ex-slaves. Some of the worst race riots are not even twenty years old and the great migration to places like Chicago for African Americans, has shown little gain in the way of jobs.
It is a time when the majority of movies releaed by Hollywood, when utilizing Black actors, only requires them, at most, is to sing and dance (And brillantly at times, the Nicholas Brothers going down those stairs in one damn take is poetry in motion). When they are allowed to speak, it is usually in a comic role, and that role is usually a servant of some type. Either a chauffer, a maid, etc. And even then their scenes could be cut. Lena Horne's singing was routinely cut out when the films she appeared in were shown in the south. This was done to not offend White Southern audiences.
Movies that are hailed as classics today and were box office hits then, included major actors in black face. Babes in Arms with Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney; and Holiday Inn with Bing Crosby coming to mind instantly.
And, at this time, Disney did not employ any Blacks in any position that allowed them to contribute to SoTS. Yes, Backus does appear in the film. And yes, he does a beautiful job. Yet, he is only an actor. He did not write, produce, nor, did he direct the film. SoTS, for the most part, is an all white production. A representation of Reconstruction as told by those with no actual experience with the subject, nor with it's direct effects on African Americans. And, when Walt Disney was once asked about the lack of African Americans employed by him, Disney said he had already made the greatest tribute to Negroes with SoTS.
So, after Backus, the only full time African American employee of Disney, who had "public" role, would be the woman who played Aunt Jemima in Frontierland at Disneyland. There would be no other African American's employeed in a position that they could be seen by the general public, until Disney was pressured in the 60's by Civil Rights Organizations.
Diahann Caroll was once interviewed about her show Julia--one of the first shows to have an African American character to have a) a home life and b) to not be a maid (she was a nurse). She was asked about Amos N' Andy. Her mother wouldn't let her watch it. She said she caught a sneak peak on night, and thought it was the one of the funniest shows she ever saw. However, when it's one of ONLY two shows on television to feature black characters, is based on a radio program that featured white actors doing the original voices, and is written by white writers, you should be able to understand what people found wrong with the program. Is it funny as hell, yes it is. Was it racist, hell yes.
Am I against SoTS's re-release. No. Am I against those who make ill informed opinions about the status of a movie released before most of them could even talk. Hell, Yes!
[Oh, and the second show in the early days of televison would be Beualah. It centered around a colored maid who cared for a white family and their children; and seemingly, who's life appeared to center solely around them. We learned little of, i.e., saw nothing of her own family. Which ties right back into SoTS.
Yes, the dymanic between the elderly Black Man and the White Child can be construed as beautiful, and is to some extent. UNTIL, you realize that the black children who appear in the movie do NOT recieve the same treatement. Nor, do they seem to share the same relationship with Uncle Remus. Now what message does this send?] -
Why not have Anchor Bay Video buy the rights from Dissney (and yeah, I meant to do that)? They had released a couple of Disney flicks, so why not also start a petitiom to send to both companies? As for PC people, man don't they just suck? I saw Songs of the South years ago and see nothing wrong with it. As a lot of TBrs said earlier, these were moral stories and nothing more.
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RobinP, who lives in the UK, and some others, in the US the classism broke down on the skin color of Black and White. An interesting sociology study was done about 2 years ago and they showed that families who immigrate from the Carribbean or Europe to the US, who are of Sub-Saharan African descent, in 3-5 generations are "at-risk": a US term for the working poor and those receiving government help. The grandkids and the great-grandkids become embroiled in the class system. They concluded that in the US Blacks and Whites my end up like the citizens of Belgium: The French speaking and German speaking live in the same country but as far as social interaction is concerned remain seperate. As far as stereotypes in the media, I saw something in the European media that is unique to Europe but paralles the US. In the BBC mini-series "Invasion Earth", the second in command, and hard case who tortured the returning human was IRISH. Why? Wouldn't have been just as valid if the charater had an Oxford accent, or a Manchester accent, or a Liverpudlian accent? And later in the story there was a group of soldiers out on patrol. The soldier who said something stupid had an IRISH accent. Why? See where this is going? I admire Europe for not being as blatent when it comes to Sub-Saharan Africans and their decendents, much as in the US we are not as blatent anymore about Asians and their decendents, but I have seen reports about the bigoty in Europe toward North Africans and Arabs. The story I'm thinking of is about the player for France at the 1998 World Cup who scored the first goal on the header. We are all guilty. As a species we still have a ways to go.----later-----m
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Well I never know where the hell to sit on this issue since I am not on of the "Pure" Colors The whole of fucking North america seems to be about Black or white. But us mixes just kind of take our own BS from racists for "Being a minority" or not "Being a Brother" Imagine how much fun it is not having anywhere to turn for support. If I was white though I would not even bother starting a debate in here with anyone black or AA or whatever you wish because your fucking doomed to be pegged evil because of Slavery. I think if the north American POP was 50% white and 50% black you would get an even split of racists. I mean im surprised more white people don't feel ganged up on(I mean the ones who didn't do shit)If your white, to someone of color your a racist until proven otherwise. I live in a dyke city and We (men) have to put up with all kinds of shit we would not be able to get away with as men IE "Womens Only Fitness" That kind of stuff. Also get shit all the time from Local Native Americans because "I" Stole there land.(My whole family came here in the 50s so how can that be?) The deal as I see it on the B/W Thing is The Blacks hold all the aces as I see it. All they have to do is cry Nazi whenever non-blacks disagree with a social issue. Like I said I see a lot of Black racists doing things Whites would never get away with. IM TALKING ABOUT SPIKE LEE.Sure to be fair I watched BIRTH OF A NATION One historical piece of racist propaganda that has the honor of Being The first full lenth feature film. This movie has blacks as evil monsters stealing all the white women in the towns, and Guess who the heros are? The Fucking KKK.....
Okay can you belive that shit? So I know there was a lot of shit in the day but that was not made within our lifetime and I think we all need to let go of some of the shit our asshole grandfathers left as our shit legacy. I like all races equal I just think 80% of humanity as a whole should be nuked by Skynet. I told a friend a few weeks back that if we had a limit of the durration of historical hate, there would be no war in The middle east or Northern Ireland et cetra.
People are people. Some are kind some are nasty. Some are PC and some are just insensitive and not hateful or racist. Some Racists will apear to be everyones pals to there face but fuck them from behind. Some people will stab you in the back no matter what color. Folks we are living in a time were skin color is not the cause of wars its Ideology. The freedom to have this debate, everybody watch your back because the real enemy comes as your friend with a smile and gifts. Lets chill out and remember some of What MLK Jr Said. There is way to much anger in the world. Sorry about the spelling. -
Friends,
One thing I learned a long time ago: there's nothing, no book, movie, tv show, episode, idea, etc. that is sooo lame that someone, somewhere will not champion it.
I have seen "Song of the South" and believe me, it's not worth the trouble. Even forgetting the race issues, it's boring, charmless, almost totally devoid of anything worth watching. It has one good song. Even the animated sequences are embarassingly bad.
Embarassing. That's the word. It's painful to watch.
Somethings are better left buried.
There are so many good films that need to be restored or brought to video/dvd, let this one rest in pieces. -
I just got into a huge argument with my brain-washed aunt about this. She also implied that because I was not black, I had no idea what if felt like to be oppressed. I told her that obviously she's never been in public school. I had a gym coach (a woman no less) have everyone in my class throw things at me because I wasn't "athletic" enough. (My parents are both exceptional athletes and I ended up going to state in track.) I had a teacher that decided she didn't like me and pulled me out of our gifted program after I refused to do the double work-load she'd thrown on me that noone; not the regular students, nor my fellow gifted students, had to do. My classmates were even worse. I've been humiliated, put-down, beat-up... and it happens to everyone in some way. Some more than others. I'm sure most of you out there have stories like these. And yet, I'm able to treat people as individuals, valuing them on their talents, morals and personalities. To suggest that I'm not qualified to say what's offensive and what's not is overtly bigoted. I'm constantly offended by South Park. But I also feel it is an incredible work of satiric art that should never be locked away somewhere so only those deemed "safe" can view it. These films, good and bad, are pieces of our history and to lock them away is dooming us to repeat our failures. The first movie I ever saw was Song of the South. That and the Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids cartoon were my first exposure to black culture. (I grew up in a rural community with very few "minorities".) Yet, I don't think of black people as "magic niggers" that hang out in junk yards. Use your minds or someone else will, people.
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Jan 22, 2002 3:17:13 PM CST
What, you mean Disney isn't going to make a Song of the Sout
by horseflesh
Money grubbing assholes.
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Race issues aside, (for my release/no release stance, scroll up there somewhere) I'm kind of baffled as to why there's now all the commotion as to whether Disney will release this movie imminently , as this happens within a couple of weeks of the same company deleting it from UK shelves after a long, happy, continued and prosperous release. Could it be.....humor me here....that they've pulled it back in order mass release it worldwide iwth a huge fanfare(very unlikely) or, as I feel more probable , to edit or (worse) "re-imagine" it. Seems to me they could keep the animation changing the dialogue as they deem necessary, and totally lose the live action sequences in favor of something more palatable to their PC tastes. Now THAT is scarey...and is even worse than censorship.
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I know of a site that sells this video, and possibly the DVD as well, but you have to order it from Japan. They even have the TV series DARK ANGEL on DVD already, the whole first season even!
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since it's getting way too heavy with way too many kneejerks on both sides. But I figure I owe you a response.***Did you follow the links from Hellbeard? I've got to admit, I haven't looked at it in quite a few years myself. In my opinion, the imagery portrays a rather offensive stereotype, a lot like a gollywog. Although the story is fairly normal boy alone surviving on wits and luck, the tone of the writing is, I feel, condescending and portrays Little Black Sambo as faintly retarded or dim. Just like SotS, I have no desire whatsoever to burn every copy, but I'd be wary of putting it in front of imressionable people without some kind of context/caveat. Hell with any luck my copy might even be worth something to a collector.***
The point is moot anyway - any parent who honestly thinks they can control their child's viewing is deluding themselves, I reckon.
*Whatever. Peace. I'm off to find some cool news to discuss.*
SP. -
first off, I cannot believe that this thing would come up on MLK's birthday. I always had a suspicion that Harry and his cohorts on this site have some strong latent racist attitudes towards African-Americans, and now this goes too far.
I have found over the years that the same kind of everyday racist slights, prejudice, and foul treatment that black people must face would not be tolerated by whites. Therefore, if there was a film -- in its historical context or not -- that made whites look like subservient buffoons, I honestly do not believe that there would be a poll for it on a predominantely white geek movie rumor site. And that's the truth.
If you don't think that movies don't hurt people, do some bloody research! When the racist masterpeice BIRTH OF A NATION was released, public lynchings of black men in the south rose drastically. Chances are many of you are not familiar with this reality, but during the years after emancipation, and even recently in Texas, black men were routinely mutilated, castrated, hung, and murdered by gangs of whites wishing to protect white women and children from the "vulgar, uncivilized" black male brute.
Movies have always been more powerful than people give them credit for. Always. And SONG OF THE SOUTH should not be released as some sort of classic. If there was a Nazi-era equivalent of this movie where Jewish people were made to look like complete fools and so on, would there be a poll on this site? I think not.
You know why? Because Jews as a group are respected in this society and blacks are not. BLACK HAWK DOWN is simply a two hour excuse to mow down black male bodies. Hollywood has always had a fetish about finding new ways to kill blacks on screen.
The level of anti-black prejudice on this board and in this society never ceases to amaze me.
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We agree. That was my point about "Invasion Earth". Re-read my post. -----later-----m
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Jan 23, 2002 12:06:11 AM CST
Why Disney Corp. don't want you to see Song of the South
by fd resurrected
The last time I saw the film was with my father, my younger brother and two younger sisters (one was a tot) in the theatre in 1986. After that, there's never been official video release of the movie. We owned Sing Along Zip A Dee Doo Dah video which was released in 1988 (I think). Still never released the full movie. What things Disney Corp. found Song of the South offensive? Racism? Historic sensitivity? Politically sensitivity? I think the latter two fits the reason not to release the film on video. From what I heard, NAACP found Song of the South so racially offensive they voiced their concern to Disney aloud and the Disney execs gave in to their view that Song of the South was a RACIST movie. Gone with the Wind wasn't buried. Birth of a Nation wasn't burned. Shit, even there are films that depict African-American stereotype worse than Song of the South - even blaxploitation and gangsta movies. Disney was/is overly concerned about offending the parents so they don't want to tarnish the reputation simply because they produced Song of the South long time ago. What about that anti-Nazi cartoon short that was never released? Disney censored the majority of cartoon shorts made in the talking pictures era and the Golden Age because of violent slapstick content, tobacco/alcohol content and racial stereotype. Remember the complete omission of the last short in Make Mine Music? Because of redneck stereotype galore that would piss off the rest of the Southeast as Disney believes. Remember cigarette digitally removed from Peco Bills in Melody Time? Because Disney don't want to promote nor glorify smoking cigarettes, DESPITE THE FACT the preceding short has a green parrot smoking and puffing a fat brown cigar. Such censorship in the name of political correctness tactics like this disgusts me greadly to the point of blasemphy and desecration of the spirit of Walt Disney and the animation staff that worked hard in contribution that will always be remembered in history. I've seen rental Japanese laserdisc of Sng of the South two and a half years ago, and the film should be released uncut and intact on video and DVD in North America. It is not political, because such view in sociopolitical context is irrelevant to the film's original purpose to entertain and delight the viewers. It is a remarkable piece of art that won the actor who played Uncle Remus an Oscar, alon with the Best Song Oscar. It is the celebration of music, magic and wonder. It is a HISTORICAL film that should never be swept under the rug in the hope that the new generations will forget the film even exists. Censorship and suppression of the films and literacy works because of political, social and sexual context is evil, unethical and promote fascism.
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This is taken directly from Disney's own site-- *The movie was advertised as "an epochal event in screen history."
*James Baskett received an honorary Oscar -
Jan 23, 2002 2:51:15 AM CST
DevilCat: You might have tried reading the entire sentence befor
by st buggering
I did say that my statement was an overstatement. I don't literally believe it to be true to its greatest extent. But god forbid I should take you down from your soapbox. How's the weather up there?
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speaking from experience i would estimate that 60-75% of every unit i served in (army) was comprised of african-americans. perhaps the effort to provide a realistic portrayal has been misconstrued as a racist plot? deep 13 out. push the button, frank.
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... do you people believe that behind closed doors there are meetings taking place that sound like this? "ya know i think this movie is shaping up great, joe, but don't forget to add some more scenes of african-american death and injury. ya know that nothing draws an audiance quite like lots of african-american death and injury. mwaa-ha-ha!" pointing your finger at EVERYTHING and crying "racism!" just makes it harder to recognise REAL cases of racism. it doesn't help the cause in my oppinion. deep 13 out. push the button, frank.
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I realize sarcasm is, at times, difficult to convey. This is particularly true in print. However, I must now 'splain to BadAssUncleFucka what I said in my five cents (some one owes me some change). I was trying to "help" those looking to scapegoat (i.e. nitpick) certain films as racist, etc. I pointed out that the movie Glory shows slavery existed (which it does) and was directed by a white guy (which it was). While the director's color has no bearing to me, there are those in the world who think the film would have been so much better if directed by an African American. The sarcastic element? The movie could be construed as a Civil War era film showing uneducated black men being ordered around by a white commander. Why couldn't the black soldiers run their own regiment? Why didn't they win in the end? What's that? It wouldn't be historically accurate? Does that matter? In REALITY, I think this is a great movie filled with fine performances, a great TRUE story and makes a strong point against racism. But I guess you missed MY point. Is Song of the South historically accurate? I haven't talked to many animated rabbits or bears lately but it is fairly faithful to it's source material-the stories by Joel Chandler Harris. Hope this clarification helps. There may be a test later. I'm surprised you didn't feel the gust of wind as my rant flew right over your skull. Seems like someone else may have a chronic condition.
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Jan 24, 2002 4:11:00 AM CST
BadAssUncleFucka: In principle, I agree with everything you'
by st buggering
That is certainly how it SHOULD be, and I don't believe that true progress will ever be made until people really ARE capable of viewing people as individuals without reference to their color. However, practically speaking, we're a long way from there, and it would be sheer blindness to ignore that. It's admirable to try to see a world beyond color, but I don't believe that we should pretend that we're already living in it. Blinding ourselves to what's going on right now will effectively prevent us from enacting change. You can't solve problems that you won't allow yourself to see, can you? Calling me racist because I see a difference between white and black is absurd; I have never believed that one is superior to another, only that there are cultural differences, and therefore differences in viewpoint. There really IS a "black culture", and it isn't racist to see that. And incidentally, I'm half middle-eastern, so it's not as if I'm not experiencing a bit of this discomfort right now. My father received the business trying to go through an airport a few weeks ago, and that is a special feeling, let me tell you.
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ultimately, it doesn't matter if i don't let race factor into my judgment when i meet someone. race doesn't mean much to me but if it matters to the person i'm meeting then they'll see every thing i do and say as my reaction to their race, rather than my reaction to their actions. i don't judge people by their race but i DO judge people by their actions. i DO judge people by the culture they CHOSE to embrace and the image of themselves they CHOSE to project. for instance i'll be much more guarded if the person i am approached by is listening to "gangsta rap" and looks aggressive but my reaction would be the same whether the person was black or white. i think that some cases of supposed racism are not the judgment of someone's race but are in reality a judgment of someone's actions. people don't like the idea that they are at fault in a situation so they invent a reason for being "unfairly" judged. "i would've gotten that job if the company wasn't racist" is a lot easier on the ego than "i would've gotten that job if i was more qualified" or worse "i would've gotten that job if i wasn't such a jerk". i understand that racism still exists but not everyone is obsessed with race. racism is quite stupid but everyone should be accountable for their own actions. deep 13 out. push the button, frank.
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You mean like PINOCCHIO, SNOW WHITE AND THE SEVEN DWARFS, FANTASIA and DUMBO, all of which I've seen at the supermarket checkout lines? Come now. And as for the idea of parents being the ones who are complaining about SONG OF THE SOUTH's release, everything I've seen on the net so far indicates that, to a large extent, it's parents who WANT it to be released. Speaking as an animation fan myself, I don't much care when the film finally reappears (well apart from the fact that it'd be nice to have this whole tiresome issue put to rest) because the animated sections have already been shown outside of the movie. And having seen SONG OF THE SOUTH in its entirety, I can confidently say that those are the only parts worth seeing twice; the rest is typical Disney liveaction syrup.
Anyway, I agree that Disney should stop editing its past (anyone remember what happened with THE UNCENSORED MOUSE?) but let's not make generalizations about parents and Disney fans. -
From what movie did this song come
from?
Thanks.
Joy
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