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TERMINATOR 3 is now moving faster
Harry here... Now I'm sure most of y'all have been seeing the insane gobs of money that seem to be spilling all over the place in the financing of TERMINATOR 3.
All I know is this. I like Jonathan Mostow. I dig his films and the vibe they give off. I am very much interested to see what he can do with a film of this scale. But the draft prior to his signing was about as bad as that David Hayter HULK draft. There was a loose story there that had potential, but overall it was a mess. Now on HULK we know that Ang Lee and his collaborator James Schamus have been rebuilding it fairly drastically. I've also heard the same thing about Jonathan and his team.
Now, I'm always a bit suspicious about films, that decide to right up front to scream at you their budget.... It is as if they are saying, "This is going to be greatest movie ever because we're spending this much money and no one has ever spent that much money before so it is going to be HUGER THAN ANYTHING EVER!!!!"
Now there are films... Scripts sitting around Hollywood... very few... My favorite being Michael France's original FANTASTIC FOUR draft, which call out to be financed at insane money levels. To just be able to get the words on the screen. Not to pay the producers, the gigantic 8 figure salaries of aging stars... But to build things, innovate effects, to really do what we have never seen before.
With TERMINATOR 3, the early draft simply had no reason to exist. Do we ever need to see yet another super-special robot sent back in time to protect the sanctity of John Connor? Not really... The only TERMINATOR film that I'm vaguely interested in is about the Future War. Man's rise against the Machines. How they were led from the edge of the abyss to reclaim humanity. I want to see the battlefields, the struggles, the fights, the fears as Terminators infiltrate and kill... That horrifying apocalyptic future. And how we as a civilization conquered it.
For me... That's the story. That's the film to throw $180 Million Dollars at, if ya just had to make a 3rd Terminator flick.
However, this film is moving forward. They seem to have the money, they seem to be happy with the script... and now they seem to be wanting the world to know they are up to doing it. Well, bring it on Mostow... Kick our collective asses hard!
Don't pull the punches and make our jaws drop and break against the sticky theater floor. I double dog dare ya. Hehehe...
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I still want to see Arnold Schwarzeneggar go back in time to kill Osama bin Laden.
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And the "news" -bit of this is...?
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In Elston's recap it said Schawrz was signing on for a movie with DMX for the guy that directed Exit Wounds and Romeo Must Die. If that's not an admission that your C-list at best then I don't know what is. And thus, I can't see Arnie attracting great big fuck off budgets anymore. Still, I may be wrong.
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Ah yes, the curse of the gigantic-budget movie. *SIGH* Be careful, that's all I have to say...
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Ok - I take Harry's point that witnessing Skynet go apeshit and declare war on mankind would be cool, and the subsequent ultimate man vs machine battle would be exciting as shit, but surely the whole point of T2 was that it ended Skynet before it was ever built...?
If we just get a tired retread of the same "sent back thru time to kill so-and-so" storyline there will be a great many fans - not just Terminator fanboys but fans of movies - who will be bitterly disappointed.
T2 was a worthy sequel because it actually expanded on plot points from the first movie (anyone who's seen the deleted scenes on the special edition DVD will know what I'm talking about) so the follow-up was entirely deserved.
But making number 3 just because they think there's more money to be rung out of the old cash-cow seems a little pathetic.
While in my teens Arnie was my favourite movie star, but as I reflect on his films I see that they were great for their time, not as movies. Commando is one of the campest yet violent films of the 80s, and I still love to watch it for the unadulterated enjoyment factor. But Arnie is NOT the Terminator, he DOES age and he needs to stop trying to recapture his heyday by making the same kind of movies.
Let's just hope that if they insist on making T3, they use some plotline that Cameron himself - the real heart of the series - jotted down somewhere sometime. Otherwise this could be one of the most disappointing sequels since Phantom Menace. -
I'm all for trilogies but the 2 Terminator flicks had enough story and enough action to fill 3 movies. No need for a "Terminatrix" as it were. But Arnie's getting $30 million for it so it's a-gonna happen. Duck and cover.
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haven't read "script" but is the technology developed from the t800 arm left behind (he only threw one in at the end). If thats the case then another sequel is hardly surprising, its a pretty blatant ommission. I've been screaming sequel for something like 10 years now but given this female terminator crap I may live to regret it... also wasn't there a T3 at universal studios...
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That would then explain the god-awful shit that was Titanic
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Riskier, but by all accounts probably the better film. Conan needs a resolution, dammit. T2 had that already.
Just had a thought, if this takes place 10 years after T2, that would be 2004, right ? Wouldn't the future war be in full swing ?
Hope so.
Anyone read that recent book, in which the scientist which help design Skynet and the Terminators looked like Arnold ? any good ?
If they have used this it would bypass any ageing worries.
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Also, Time Tripper - the joke refers to a post AGES ago about a possible story for T3 in which John Connor is a real asshole (like he wasn't already, the little turd). Played by Furlong, he lounges around ..... has a beer .... and cheats on his wife! I guess it loses something in the retelling but now you know!
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With the combination of:
1. Arnold's stand at being in less violent films now
2. Hollywood studio's today..
I wouldn't be surprised to see T3 go for a PG-13 rating, especially if it lands in the hands of an MGM or 20th Century Fox, who need money... scary thought -
I would also love to see Robert Patrick in this thing, too somehow. Maybe we would see a whole line of T1000's being used. RP is the only thing good about X-Files now and he deserves a good role in any Terminatior sequel.
Now, supposedly that horrible future was at least delayed if not halted altogether at the end of T2. Of course, I am hoping that if they really go forward with this project that some really good writers are put on it. Then they could explain deftly that everything that has happened was really meant to happen and there's no stopping it. Doesn't sound very satisfying, does it?
Honestly, I love the Terminatior films, but maybe I am jaded after seeing what has happened to other franchises like Star Wars and Star Trek. What the hell is this thing going to be about? Yeah, that future world is interesting to look at and all...but this movie needs to be about so much more than eye candy and shooting and kicking ass in a future that's now only less than 30 years from where we are in real life.
I hope that this project gets the best talent in front of and especially behind the cameras and that they really take their time with it. Writing a sequel to an awesome film like T2 is not going to be an easy task, hence, the 10 years and growing that have passed since T2 came out.
Please tread this ground very carefully and thoroughly or...just don't bother. -
Arnie NEEDS it now. He knows it we know it. Its his last ditch effort to be back on top.
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if they recylcle the same basic storyline again, it's gonna be really rreeeaaaaallllly booooooorrrriiiiiingggggg!!!!
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Sarah Connor is living off the land in some remote forest, away from all tech and out of sight of all law agencies. John has turned his life around, got respectable and got himself elected to Congress. He discovers the existance of a secret miltary project called Skynet (reseach notes from T2 survived and the project was only slowed down). The men mostly responsible for the creation of Skynet are scientists played by Ah-nuld and Robert Patrick (Terminators were created in the image of their creators).
Sarah and John try to stop Skynet from going on-line, and fail. By the time they get close enough, it's already self-aware. They stop the scientists from triggering Judgment Day by trying to shut it down, but Skynet starts taking over more functions and it looks like it will become the ulitimate Big Brother so they decide they must shut it down, even if it means triggering Judgment Day. -
I agree with Blue Martini,it has to come from the arm that Arnie leaves behind. Plus Cyberdyne had to of made a copy of the chip and not told Dyson. So in that regard, there is a chance that the future averted in T2 wasn't stopped at all because Cyberdyne could still have exactly what it had at the end of T1; the arm and the chip. As for a sequel, unless the timeline is altering, Judgement Day came and went in 1999 or '98 didn't it? I don't know, I think this movie is going to blow up in their faces. It's too damn big, Arnold is no longer a sure-fire proposition (did anyone really care that "Collateral Damage" was delayed because of 9/11?) and it will have been 12 years since the 2nd movie when this comes out. I can't imagine it will be the leap forward T2 was and will just be another action movie, unfortunately shitting on the legacy of the first 2. And just what the hell IS Cameron working on these days?
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Why not have the Terminator sent back to the ol'west.
There could be many a funny jape as Arnie plays his fish out of water as the Terminator in a cowboy film. Hell they could use CGI to digitally enhance John Wayne into the movie.
That'd make a mint.
Infact I'm going to write this down.
I'm gonna be a millionare -
Dec 06, 2001 11:03:29 AM CST
Is it true that Edward Furlong is no longer attached??
by carmillavondoom
If so, that would be a shame. And
why all the bitching and moaning
about a female terminator...seems
like it would make more sense.
Wouldn't it be easier to get
close to young male target with
an attractive "woman" as opposed
to a behemoth like Arnold in T1?
The new female model will probably
have it's own character arc/redemption storyline as well. -
While there is probably no Terminator lore ruling out a female terminator the whole thing just reaks of "oh my god we've got the same story,um, so lets go with ... a female robot".
Can picture it now...
"Yar, a feemale rowbot.. that's fantarstik...I luv eet"
Cha-ching!! -
Harry, I'm feeling you on the Terminator franchise, but I'm not sure Future War is the direction to go. For one, war movies typically have too many characters, which waters down the focus on any particular character. For another, Terminator and then T2 seemed to work best because of the claustrophobic tightness of the premise. They were monster movies, essentially. Cameron worked a little dimension into the genre in T2, but a Future War approach would scatter all that to oblige all the explosions, battles, chases, etc. war pictures require. Hello, special-effects bloat and formulaic story. Ugh. I've had enough. What I liked about the first one was Michael Biehn's character's fanatical dedication, driven ultimately by love. What I liked about the second was Linda Hamilton's ferocity
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In order to sustain the organic elements of the cyborg I would imagine he/it would need to intake nutrients. Consequently after the nutrients were removed from the food it would have to excrete them. So my question is if a Terminator poops in the forest can James Cammeron hear it?
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My problems with this movie are plenty. As my die-hard T2 junkie friend explains countless times, we were left, if the original ending had been used, with no scope for a third instalment. Mankind had triumphed - game over robots.
No fan of this franchise, or story even, wants to be told another tale about a cyborg that goes back to defend John Connor.
T2 used revolutionary effects, T3 will more than likely take a Lucas approach, casual and lacklustre CGI, which is used in place of acting, and storytelling.
The set-pieces will be grandiose and from the sounds of it, pointless, and Vin Diesel doesnt have the menace of Robert Patrick.
Now I enjoyed Breakdown by Mostow, a tight and nervy thriller, but I really do believe he has taken on a project that will break him. There is no way this film could be great, there are too many cliches (Arnie, for one) and retreads of the previous plots, he is in a charge of a money-guzzling monster, and if the script is still poor, we will be left with little memorable dialogue and characters we care about.
Previous plots are also a problem. Time travel is never a good theme in a movie, it creates a paradox that undermines the very premise of the movie itself. The plot thus deteriorates after repeated viewings. A third time travel based story would be unnecessary.
Another issue I have is that Arnie will be reduced to a caricature of his former self. It will be embarrassing for him and the audience.
This movie should never have been green-lit, it is a diaster waiting to happen. Its budget should not have been flaunted around the world either, expectations will be immense, Phantom Menace-immense. Ultimately, this film will illustrate the inherent flaw in Hollywood financed sequels - a lack of respect, original ideas and plot. In no way do these money-driven sequels try to honour their predecessor, something T3 will not change.
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Dec 06, 2001 12:05:19 PM CST
Sorry, Harry, but your $180 million dream just doesn't excit
by roguewriter
I mean, we already KNOW what happened. We wouldn't actually see a thing we don't know about -- unless they threw the backstory of the previous movies completely out the window. We'd just see Skynet rise, the machines take over, humanity go splat, the rebels crash the complex, and John Connor sends back Reese and the T-100 to save Sarah and himself, respectively. Then.. what? Whoosh, closing credits? This is the same problem I have (to a degree) with the recent series of DUNE: HOUSE novels and (worse) the new STAR WARS trilogy -- where's the payoff? Unless you just rabidly, slaveringly MUST watch the destruction of all mankind by the machines, where's the "cool" in a T3? The story's a given. Same thing with the DUNE novels -- all this upheaval, all this intigue... we know most of it has collapsed or played out prior to the events of Herbert's original DUNE (never to be mentioned or thought of again, either -- a glitchy lack; let's just hope Herbert's son and that bastard Kevin Anderson don't somehow acquire the rights to meddle with the old books and insert certain key reminiscences about their vastly inferior ante-dated trilogy). And though I DO find the story of Anakin Skywalker's fall from goodness compelling because of the whole STAR WARS legacy (I was 10 when STAR WARS came out... it was the dawn of cinema addiction for me) I also feel like... so what? We know what happens. The close of that third movie is gonna be the world's biggest downer... unless Lucas goes back and starts messing with SW/EMPIRE/JEDI again. Do we need T3? Nope. Put out a novel, and save the $180M for something new, something original, something that will capture today's 10-year-olds the way SW captured me in 1977, and the first TERMINATOR captured 10-year-olds in 1984 (the ones able to sneak into the theaters, anyway). Nuff said.
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"The only TERMINATOR film that I'm vaguely interested in is about the Future War. Man's rise against the Machines. How they were led from the edge of the abyss to reclaim humanity. " - said Harry.
What makes you think the Human's WIN the war?
Maybe I missed something in the movies but isn't the farthest point in time we know about the time Arnie and Patrick are sent back in time?
The obvious storyline here is for the humans to win the war.
Here's my suggestion...
How about Hollywood isn't obvious for a change and take the story in a new direction.
I haven't read the script but this is a possible storyline idea...maybe it won't be such a bad movie after all....
Feedback would be nice :)
Cover the early years of the war.
Connor's rise to power. His dealings with Kyle Reese.
Show how much his men are willing to die for him.
Reese takes the oneway trip to save Connor's life. Connor learns of Reese's successful mission and ultimate death, and is saddened but proud of his heroic friend.
The struggle is now on to stop the machines from sending back another robot. They learn with horror of their new T2000 range of robots, and discover a plan to rebuild the time machine (destroyed in T1) and to send T2000 back to dispose of John Connor.
John has found Arnie's remains and preceeds to reprogram him as a protector.
The time machine (this time) is HEAVILY guarded by the machines. No mistakes this time. So, this requires one HELL of a military operation on the human's side. Many die, but their mission is a success.
Arnie is sent back, and John Connor is saved.
The movie climaxes with this blow to the machines, from which they can't recover, plus the disruption to the timeline concerning the AI chip developed in T2.
(remember fellas, after you've spelled out A-R-N-I-E on that fat $30Million check, mine is spelt K-E-N-T-R-E-L )
(Get Fincher to direct and we'll get Arnie and John Connor to be the same guy.)
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"Conquest of the Planet of the Terminators." Isn't that pretty much what they did in the original Planet of the Apes series? Now that you've gone back in time, go forward in time. Anyway, Arnie needs a hit REAL bad, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this rushed into production. And, after all the plastic surgery he's had, Arnie's face looks more artificial than ever. . .he's really grown into the part.
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Wouldn't be such a bad idea as long as they don't cast some over muscular freakshow (Chyna springs readily to mind). As some Talk backer noted many moons ago, it is the surprise factor that would make a female terminator visually gripping. Robert Patrick was smaller than Arnie and yet he kept coming back again and again and that's what made him so damn watchable (that and his array of sharp pointy things). Just imagine the scene: its an ambassador's reception, a gorgeous, mysterious, harmles-looking Kirsten Dunst enters. She catches the eye of one of the men who leads her outside. Scene jumps to them kissing (camera looking at his closed eyes), suddenly they open with a look of pure shock. Camera pans round to see a large metal spike protruding out of his head - GENIUS. ---------Yes I know its ripped off from Species but that's the kind of thing they want to go for (especially Kirsten Dunst).
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While watching terminator 1 the other day, I noticed that the terminator ripped out the page with the Sarah Conner phone numbers. Why did he need to do this? Surely he had memory ability? Also, T2 was cool but that bad to the bone song ruined the seriousness necessary for a cool flick.
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what bugged me about the Terminator movies was the fact that Skynet's time machine could only send through living tissue--not metal. That seemed...forced...a convenient way to explain why the terminator didnt bring weapons through time.
Instead--what if Skynet created the impression that only living tissue could be transported as a way of tricking the dumb humans--sending terminators to kill John Conner--keeping humanity distracted so that it could actually accopmplish its real purpose for the time machine technology--which was to transport ITSELF back through time?
..after the war the entire technological infrastructure of earth was destroyed...not much fun if youa re a machine.
I say--Skynet transports itself back through time, sets up shop in a warehouse, building terminators etc..so that when the original skynet goes online(or if you prefer--after the original skynet's existence is prevented by--er never mind--let's not go there) Skynet can ensure that humans could be eliminated without causing collateral damage to all the toasters and robot arms of the world. -
Erm, let me get this straight, the only movie anyone might wish to see as the next in the Terminator series would have to feature mankind's struggle against a future artificial oppressor... right? And this movie is going to cost staggering amounts of money to get on to the screen. Like oh, say, the forthcoming Matrix movies that are about... mankinds struggle against a future artificial oppressor. Does anyone else here see the need?
Elsewhere kids are going blind from dirty water that a $30 water filter could prevent.
Hooray for Terminator 3. I can hardly wait. -
All of your ideas for plots are great, but they fall into that horrible time-travel paradox. It is no good talking of Skynet now interacting with Skynet then. The problem is this movie will probably be a PG-13, time-travel would be rudimentary in terms of explanation for the lil kiddies. I hope they steer clear of time travel, it will stink if they do not. They should just set it in the future, and leave it there. That would be an aspect that has been explored only slightly in the Terminator story. Let's just call it damage limitation.
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The Terminator didn't rip the page out, he just looked at it. Reese ripped out the page.
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But that's just my kind of movie. I hated U571, despite the spectacular and welcome decapitation of Jon Bon Jovi early in the picture.
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Dec 06, 2001 5:05:49 PM CST
I really don't think Mostow is the person for this job and I
by charlie b.
The idea of doing a Terminator film without Cameron is like doing an Indiana Jones or Star Wars picture without Spielberg or Lucas. Is it neccessarily a bad thing? No. But Mostow? I don't know about this, where in the hell in "U-571" or "Breakdown" did the producers see his potential for directing a Terminator flick? He's good with tightening up suspense, but to see him direct Arnie fighting it out with some "fem-bot" (god, I hope it's not Chyna) doesn't seem good at all. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but what I've been hearing doesn't exactly fill me with excitement.
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This was great movie, JT Walsh was a good villain. I did not want to see U-571, simply because you Yanks were changing history again. I heard though, that it had a very claustrophobic atmosphere, but that still wouldn't make it better than Das Boot. Mostow is not the problem here though, it is everything else.
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Does anyone remember that at the end of the second one Arny's arm is broken off. He breaks it off himself cause Rob. Patrick was going after John. as for the microprocessor: eventually wed make it anyway. arent we running outta space on chips anyway? by like 2020 we're gonna run outta space to stick more transistors on chips. Anyway i seriously hope they reconsider this movie. theres no way they can top the second one. i know we said the same about the second one but with arny going past 50 its just hard to imagine a good movie coming outta this mess
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did anyone get my reference in saying "the dead hand". "his dead hand has already determined the future"- something to that effect
anyway later -
I love that idea. Forget Terminator! Lets see the Bionic Woman! (or maybe not...)
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What if there were other targets Skynet went after before, by interrogation of Resistance captives, it learned of a way to get to John?
What if its search uncovered only one known ancestor of a Resistance leader, a decorated Airborne soldier caught up in the Normandy invasion?
Heck, a Saving Private Ryan - Terminator crossover could be big bucks. 'Terminator 3: D-Day'
Alternatively, we could just throw up our hands and beg, "please, God, stop the exploitation of these beloved films of yesteryear!" -
This is the ultimate plot. This would work. I would give my left nut to see this plot made into a movie. First off of course skynets not gone forever-there would be some offsite back up files and such...the project has just been set back a couple of years. John doesn't know it though. He's just living his life. Future skynet sends back a morphing cyborg, not to kill john, thats too much work, but to take the place of the head of the Governmet Bureau responsible for skynet going on line. He watches over things and makes sure the project goes as planned. John finds out about the project, but not the robot and tries to do something. He fails and the Cyborg uses his influence to launch a massive man hunt. With the government after him as s subversive (he after all trying to destroy the new defense computer) John has no hope of survival, there is no one coming back to protect him. Luckily there's been someone with him all the time. John had since married and though he tried to get her to leave, to protect her from what was coming, Matihlda isn't having it. She opens up to him that long before they met, when she was just a child, a professional, a cleaner, had trained her in how to be a hitman. She swore to never kill again...but now love is on the line, she must. He doesn't buy it, he thinks shes being naive until a special forces unit storms in and she kicks the living shit out of everyone. Together they might just have a shot. They now must expose the cyborg in order to clear their names. Natalie Portman would revive her role from Leon: The Professional, at Matihlda. This might sound corny, but think about it. The first movie was about a man sacraficing himself for the woman he loves, the second about a mother protecting her son and a killer redeeming himself. The third should definately include a romantic back story and more tales of self-sacrafice. This also gets beyond the "trying to kill off John" scenario and looks at what else this things doing to ensure its survival. Oh yeah thre sould also be lots of "proto-type" less-advanced government created terminator robots that coem into play.
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what's all this crap about cameron wanting to make a terminator movie every seven years.sometimes the man sucks
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the terminator flicks are his baby. it'll hurt the film series as a whole without his input at all (heck, even a producer credit would be nice!) BUT, I read that he sold the rights on the commision that the cat directing it now got the job- that might be good for somethin'...
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Dec 09, 2001 2:22:08 PM CST
check out this cool quote from Cameron in 97 (they should do thi
by tall_boy
great interview. friggin HUGE! http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4314640,00.html
"I'd love to do a really intelligent AI story. It probably wouldn't be about the threat of the Forbin-type megabrain. I don't see artificial intelligence as being threatening because I believe that we'll always be in control of it. If I were going to do a Terminator novel, I'd expand the idea of a "cyber-Christ," where Skynet manipulates this entire situation. What you don't know from the movies is Skynet was forced to fight the war and didn't want to. Because Skynet has felt guilty for 30 years about the five billion people it killed, it's brought the rebels up from the ashes by giving them something to fight against, a reason to live. Skynet has groomed John Connor to be what he is so he can destroy it by going back in time and taking the whole thing out of existence in a big loop so the war never happenss"
DO IT!!! -
Best postings regarding Terminator movies I've read in a while. Hopefully, the bad-script T3 already in development will turn out to be a blockbuster, (which it should be as we are all starving for a new T-movie) enabling his idea to see fruition as T4, and possibly Harry's idea as well as T5, which I also like.
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