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New Femme Take! All TV Spots!!! An Exhaustively Complete Review of THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING!!! Added A Pair Of Links!

Harry here with a review from RingBearer.Org from a lady... Here ya go.... Click here for a Lady's point of view!!! Now in addition another review has shown up over at PopCultureShock.Com that says, "LOTR joins Star Wars, Blade Runner, Empire, Indiana Jones, and The Matrix as a bonafide ‘modern day classic’. It entertains from beginning to end. An unlike a lot of contemporary films so light in story (The Mummy(s) and the overrated Gladiator come to mind) it’s an epic tale with characters you actually care about. Ones that make you laugh, cry and cower." Read it!!!!

ADDED!!! The OFFICIAL LORD OF THE RINGS WEBSITE has just put up all of the TV Commercial Spots Online in Quicktime... I wish they were much larger in format, but the quality of image is the best thus far. If any of you see tidbits of footage from the Fox Special Tonight online... Let me know!

Harry here... There've been a couple of additional reviews that have popped up online. This first one showed up on TolkeinOnline. Which by the way was where that Gandalf Trailer was hosted the other day. Now they've nabbed a review, here's a touch of it linked to the full review.... "So, to sum it all up for you, it did not seem like nearly three hours.  It was an intense, emotional experience shot through with moments of Genius.  I cannot say it was the best movie I ever saw, but it was head and shoulders the best movie fantasy movie and probably the best film in five years." and this review from Puff, who has been answering questions about the film. Here's a bit of what he said, "It's very, very, very good. And on every level, this transends the genre, it's magnificant!"

Hey folks, Harry here... First up is FrodoLives... He's a talkbacker and a big fanboy for Lord of the Rings. I first became aware of FrodoLives when his wife contacted me, prior to New Line selling their first poster for LOTR when she wanted to buy her husband, FrodoLives, a one sheet for his birthday. I hooked her up, and in return... after that birthday, Mr FrodoLives called me up from Chicago to let me know that I have a seat booked for a private screening of FELLOWSHIP OF THE RINGS in a theater with leather seats and alcoholic libations. I informed him that I would be seeing the film in Austin, but thanked him. I hadn't heard from him till last night when he discovered that he would be attending an early morning screening in Chi-Town. This is an astonishingly detailed exhaustive look at FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING.... Minute details follow, beware of spoilers .. OH, don't forget that FOX is showing a 30 min "Making of" special for Fellowship THU night 11/29 @ 8pm. It has some interesting BTS footage as well as expanded film footage (with full, final "LOTR" look) of the Cave Troll scene. Now, here's Frodo Lives...

Harry -

Long time lurker on your site. This will be the first review I've sent your way, but what a review!

First off, call me FrodoLives. Why not? ;-)

I have just returned from a special screening of LOTR:FOTR, which I was fortunate enough to get into (due to the kindness of my new favorite person on this planet aside from my wife). Before I dig into the review, let me give you a little bit about myself, so you'll hopefully know whether to trust me or not.

I'm a geek. Always have been. Proud of it.

I've been looking forward to LOTR since I first heard about it 2 years ago. I've had a theater booked out for opening night for the past year and a half now. I'm a huge fan of movies, though I don't consider myself a "critic". In general, I tend to like the movies that I see too much to be a critic. Critics always seem to look for the worst in a movie. They ruin it for themselves. I get too much enjoyment out of movies to ever want to do that. I love movies for the pure escapist thrill that they provide.

So. Enough about me. Onto the movie.

First off, for those that don't want "spoilers". Stop reading now. Just go away knowing that this movie truly is the gem that we've all been hoping for. Get in line RIGHT NOW and make sure you have tickets to opening night. You won't be sorry.

Are they gone?


Onto the good stuff. This is going to be a long one, so be warned. I'll go through as much of the film as I can remember.

The movie opens beautifully. Black screen. Nothing showing. And then Galadriel's voice, speaking out of the darkness, describing the history of the One Ring. The telling of the Second Age. The fall of Sauron. The screen opens up to those scenes we've seen of the armies of Mordor marching. Battles between Sauron's forces and Men and Elves. Elrond in full armor. Sauron using the might of the One Ring to CRUSH his opponents. Isildur falling before him, his sword shattered. Isildur raising the shard of his sword to strike the ring from Sauron's's just unreal. You fade out with Gollum's hand reaching down through the river water to grab the ring.....My Preciousssss.

Fade to the Shire. Gandalf arriving and Frodo greeting him. From the first tip of his hat, McKellen owns the role of Gandalf for all time. You've heard it before: he IS Gandalf. There's no acting, it's way too natural. He just IS. Perfection.

Frodo is utterly innocent. A Hobbit of the Shire. Carefree, full of life. It's almost painful watching this if you know the book and know what he's about to face.

Watching Gandalf interact with the children....the fireworks displays....Merry and Pippin stealing a firework and setting it off (nearly blowing themselves to bits). All wonderful.

For the purists out there, there's plenty of nods straight to the book. You have references to chapter titles throughout the movie....just snuck in there perfectly. However, be warned that changes have been made. Fairly straightforward changes, all aiming to trim the story down so that they can fit it into a movie. I had no problems with any of them.

What changes you ask? Prime example: There is no delay in Frodo's leaving. Gandalf returns after discovering what the ring truly is (after Bilbo's party) and warns Frodo, gets him to leave immediately. Sam (caught eavesdropping) is sent with him. Merry and Pippin join in more by necessity as they fall in with Frodo and Sam while running from Farmer Maggot (they were raiding his garden). Immediately after this, the Black Riders come and there is just a wonderful chase through the forest. The Hobbits (all four) flee to Bree.

- From that point on, it's a rollercoaster ride.

Gandalf facing Saruman. And losing. Badly. Trapped at the top of Orthanc. Later, you see him whisper something to a butterfly-like thing that flies by the tower. And then the rescue by the eagle. I was getting giddy by this point.

The flight of the Hobbits and Strider from Bree to Weathertop...The fight on Weathertop (again, different from the books, but still wonderful). Aragorn is awesome. Standing up to five of the Ring Wraiths and fighting them off on Weathertop (the fire brand that he's carrying in the trailers is put to good use). Viggo takes on the role of Aragorn almost as well as McKellen plays Gandalf. It's just so RIGHT.

They flee from Weathertop and start the long run for Rivendell (Frodo being in a rather bad way after being stabbed). Enter Arwen. Say what you want, I think that Liv Tyler did a wonderful job in this role. Would I have rather seen Glorfindel? Yes. I would KILL to see the flight to the ford and "the elf-lord unmasked in his fury." But, again, I can see why the change was made. And Liv Tyler does the best acting I've ever seen from her (I'm normally not a huge fan). She's perfectly acceptable.

The flight to the Ford is a thrilling horse chase that's a match for any car chase or fighter jet dog fight sequence you've seen. The calling of the flood....the charging "horses" in the raging waters....just wonderful.

Rivendell is spectacular. Elrond is exactly how you want him to be. Full of power. Knowledge. Understanding. In command. The scenery in Rivendell is breathtaking. It just has this old, time-worn feel to it. Coupled with a feeling of great power. Just a power that is in the twilight of its life.

The introduction of the rest of the Fellowship....the forming of the Fellowship....and the absolutely priceless look of outrage on Elrond's face as Sam and then Merry and Pippin crash the Council. The decision of Frodo to take the Ring to Mt. Doom is wonderfully acted and shot. Very moving.

The journey to Caradhras is handled quickly, in a series of brief shots of the countryside and the grandeur of the landscape. The storms on Caradhras are explained a bit differently....with Saruman being behind the calling of the storms. Gandalf tries to fight the power that Saruman has called and is once again defeated. They flee the mountain top at Gimli's urging (and Frodo's agreement) to Moria.

Fans of Cthulhu should rejoice in this movie. The Watcher in the Lake is one of the best, most vivid and terrifying Cthuloid renderings I've ever seen. The Fellowship is forced into the mines.

Once again, the scenery and cinematography is just spectacular. The Mines of Moria are not quite what I had pictured when reading the books....they are BETTER. The finding of Balin's Tomb. Gimli weeping at the tomb. The almost comical moment as Pippin knocks the skeleton into the well with a clatter that makes even the audience cringe. And the exact lines from the book: "Fool of a Took! Next time throw yourself down there and spare us from any more of your stupidity." Or something like that. I'm too hyped up to read right now.

The drums start sounding and from then on you're in for one thrill after another. The orcs attack and you see, for the first time, the Fellowship fighting together. At this point, let me just say that Legolas is AWESOME. I don't know where they found Orlando Bloom, but you've never seen anything like this! He fights like and Elf. That's the highest praise I can give. A marvelous shot as he leaps from a ledge ONTO the cave troll, firing his bow down into it's face while standing on it's shoulder. Him twirling like a dervish as orcs close in too tight for him to use his bow and he falls back on two daggers. Just fantastic stuff.

Gimli bulls through everything in stark contrast to the fighting style of Legolas. As he should. He fights like a Dwarf. And oh, that axe! Never piss off a Dwarf. Ever.

The flight to the Bridge has you on the edge of your seat (as if you weren't there already). The orcs streaming after the fleeing Fellowship. Thousands of them. Surrounding the Fellowship and closing in for the kill when....flames light up the far end of a hallway and you hear the Balrog walking. Thundering. The orcs all flee. A moment of silence from the Fellowship as Gandalf concentrates on what is coming and then "This is a peril you cannot fight".....They run. You never see anything of the Balrog during this race but a fiery light pursuing them...always just out of sight around that bend....bringing the walls down with its tread. This is so perfectly shot it's hard to imagine. Just be sure you bring a change of pants.

They make it to the Bridge and Gandalf had the others race across it as he turns to face the flames that are now visible as a wall.

Enter the Balrog. Picture a minotaur made from black ash and flames. It opens its mouth and it's like the fires of Hades glowing from its maw. I cannot imagine how Jackson could have done any better than this. It is dead on.

Gandalf facing the Balrog on the Bridge. The first utterance of "You shall not pass." Much less force than the one in the trailer. Glamdring shattering the Balrog's sword...the Balrog drawing back and lashing out a whip of pure's almost beautiful...and terrifying. And then...."You....Shall not....PASS!!" The line is exactly what you've seen in the trailer. Only in the proper context, your heart just pauses for a moment. Then the bridge shatters and the Balrog falls.

Gandalf standing at the edge of the shattered bridge in triumph. Then the whip snaking out and lashing around his ankle, pulling him over the edge. He hangs on long enough to cry "Flee fools!" before falling into the abyss.

The music at this point is what I remember most. And the cry of utter anguish from Frodo as Gandalf falls. If you're not moved by this, check your pulse.

They exit Moria onto the hillside. The light is almost painful after the darkness of the caves. The Hobbits are all weeping. Aragorn drives everyone onward, saying that they must make Lothlorien before nightfall.

Lothlorien is beautiful in an entirely different way than Rivendell. More natural. More powerful. Rivendell spoke of the twilight of a race that was once powerful and beautiful. Lothlorien is a bastion of that race's former glory.

Galadriel enters in a blaze of light and power. Her gaze into the eyes of the members of the Fellowship is handled flawlessly. Power radiates from her. You feel the eyes boring in. And then she looks at Frodo. You hear her voice in his head. And there is this moment where the true extent of her power is shown for just a heartbeat as those wonderful eyes suddenly harden. There's an effect done here that I really can't describe...Galadriel's eyes change. She becomes almost sinister. And then she is back.

The Fellowship rests briefly. A beautiful elf-song echoes through the forest. "The Lament of Gandalf"....very poignant.

Frodo is awakened in the night by the passing of Galadriel. He follows her to the Mirror of Galadriel and looks in. You see the destruction of the shire....then the Eye of Sauron, calling to the ring....pulling it from Frodo's shirt and drawing his face toward the bowl. He pulls back just before touching. He speaks with Galadriel.

And offers her the ring.

You see Galadriel change into a being of power. Her voice alters....mutates. She twists. She is undeniably powerful. And undeniably evil at this point. And then she is back. She refuses the ring. "I have passed the test. I shall fade with the rest of my kind."

The journey down the river...leaving Lothlorien.

Cut to Saruman calling for the Uruk Hai. Sending them after the Fellowship with instructions to bring the halflings to him "unspoiled". And to kill the others. The Uruk Hai race forth from Orthanc.

Shots of the Fellowship on the river. Legolas feels the Uruk Hai drawing nearer.

Passing by the statues of the kings. Nearing the falls of Rauros. The party pulls the boats the the side of the river.

Boromir trying to take the ring from Frodo. Frodo putting the ring on and fleeing to the top of Amun Hen (if I'm remembering the name right). I should mention that the world that Frodo enters when he's wearing the ring is (once again) unlike anything you've seen. Everything is drawn Like a wind effect washing everything out. Colors bleed off. And in the center of it all is Frodo, touched by the chaos, but still himself. Fleeing to the top of Amun Hen, where he can see Minas Morgul. The Eye of Sauron starts coming for him....and he removes the ring, falling back into the "real" world.

Aragorn finds Frodo. After a rather touching scene, he agrees with Frodo's wish to go off on his own. It is the only way.

Then the Uruk Hai attack. Aragorn turns to face them as Frodo flies off through the woods. Once again, you will be astounded by the swordwork. Aragorn is almost a force of nature as he moves through the orcs, spinning and slicing with his sword.

Legolas and Gimli enter the fray. It is here that your jaw will simply come unhinged and fall to the floor. The fighting with Legolas.....I still can't believe I actually saw it. This one absolutely perfect scene as an orc closes in on Legolas: He stabs the orc through the heart with an arrow that he has in his hand. As the orc falls, he pulls the arrow out and IN THE SAME MOTION draws it and fires on the next orc. A shot from a slight distance as his arms just blur as he's drawing and firing on the orcs around him. There's just this clearing about him into which no orc can cross.

Gimli barreling about like the Dwarf that he is.

And then a cut to Merry and Pippin. They see Frodo leaving. They sacrifice themselves to help him get away from the orcs that are hunting him. They stand and shout at the orcs and lead them off.

Boromir crashing in to their rescue as the orcs catch up to them. And it is here that you have the wonderously worked redemption of Boromir. He fights like a man possessed. Like a man trying to win back his soul.

No orc can come near him. Or get past him. You see Lurtz draw an orc bow and fire an arrow into Boromir. The arrow is simply huge. About a half inch thick. You can almost FEEL it as it pounds into his shoulder, throwing him back. And then he fights back to his feet, killing more orcs as they try to get at the Hobbits.

You know what happens next. It's shot brilliantly with a near-perfect eye for the action that needed to take place.

The movie closes with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli charging off to rescue Merry and Pippin. And with Frodo and Sam heading into Mordor.

This was, bar none, one of the greatest movies I've ever seen.

Were there flaws? If you go in looking for them, yes. But even then, they are so minor as to be inconsequential next to the magnitude of what Peter Jackson has accomplished.

Surprises? Plenty. You get several tantalizing glimpses of Gollum. The light in his eyes. His hands. Him crouching over a rock. Enough to seriously wet your appetite.

Go to this film expecting to be blown away. Let yourself be immersed in the world that Peter Jackson has created. Go in looking for flaws and you'll find them. That can be said of any movie ever made. Go in looking for a marvelous film that you can sit back and let wash over you and carry you away and you won't be disappointed.


Readers Talkback
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  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:10 p.m. CST


    by Kizeesh

    ha ha beat you (I hope)

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:19 p.m. CST

    A thousand time would not give thanks enough

    by Kizeesh

    oh Thankyou! thankyou! thankyou! thankyou! thankyou! thankyou! thankyou! Frodo.Lives, not only have you given me the informative review I've been waiting for you've also not spoiled the Boromir scene. good Lad!, Shame about Glorfindel, If I'd made the movies I'd at least have had him hanging about with Arwen at the ford but sod it I am now a man possessed I must have my tickets!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:23 p.m. CST

    Peter Travers in ROLLING STONE has declared "Fellowship" best pi

    by Bregalad_

    That's the rumor I heard.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:24 p.m. CST

    OH HELL YEAH OH HELL YEAH OH ... HELL ... YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by IAmLegolas

    That's all I have to say. I'm gone from these LOTR talkbacks until Dec. 19th, I don't want to be spoiled no more (like I don't know the story already, but still). LOTR RULES THEM ALL, MOTHAPHUCKAS!!!!! PEACE OUT YO!!!!

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:30 p.m. CST

    Blade Deckard -- Good Question

    by FrodoLives

    I was wondering about that myself. And a bit concerned, as that would have seriously hindered the play of the movie, IMHO. The answer is that no, he does not. It's there....kind of....but is more of what it was intended in the original books, a true bond between the Sam and Frodo. They are NOT lovers or gay or anything else. They are just....brothers is probably the best way to put it. Do they love each other? Yes. Absolutely. But not that way...

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:38 p.m. CST

    Tom Bombadil and a question about the movie

    by Frenzy

    Blade - Tom was neither a hobbit or queer (he had a wife) - I mean, true he pranced around a bit - but the man lived and breathed for his goldberry chickypooh. Frodo.Lives, Great Review =) Question for you - do they mention Luthien and Beren in the movie?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:38 p.m. CST

    There's no gay stuff in FOTR!

    by Shawneous

    I know the texts your talking of (when Sam touches Frodo's hand) but that's just misunderstood by the fruitcakes. Tolkien was a devout Catholic and has said the books carry a Christian message.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:39 p.m. CST

    Tom Bombadil is not a hobbit, or gay, Blade Deckard.

    by The Grin

    Either you're just trying to cause trouble, or you need to read the books. Bombadil is married, and he's ancient, powerful, and remains an enigma to the hobbits who visit him. The Grin

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:44 p.m. CST



    Tis such a great day! This is now getting to be ridiculous. No negative comments? That is truly amazing! The worst comment I can find so far is that the chicks from 'sex in the City' didn't like it. But that's ok I didn't really like 'Titanic'. ;)

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:44 p.m. CST


    by SamWave

    OOhh... Uh. Oh! Ughghghghg.... Can't wait... Such a... HUGE..... MAN... er, ah.... wait a minute.... Thanks for the review!

  • I really didn't think so many reviews would be this positive. I mean these reviewers have been in total awe, gushing and salivating like old men on viagra in the Playboy Mansion. And this from jaded movie watchers! Even GOOD movies usually get trashed by a healthy number of people(see A.I.). I mean Harry Potter was hyped, but the movie's flaws led to plenty of "kids will like it, it's okay" reviews. The real test now is how pretentious high profile critics will react. If they give it a lukewarm reception it won't ruin the film for me, but it will certainly add to the impressive track record this film has had with buzz. Eventually there's gonna have to be an "it wasn't THAT great" review though, even if it's just for the sake of backlash. But for now I am impressed by the reactions. Can't wait to find out if the movie pleases me or not, but the pure joy of seeing my first choices cast for almost 80% of the characters will be hard to forget for a long time.

  • I think it is time the fanboy goes to bed for a little while. It is a movie, and one that will fall within the cracks of mediocrity. Why anyone would put more than five minutes of effort in going over a film is beyond me. I knew the guy who was running that big .net website for this trifle and I always wondered why the hell someone would be putting so much time into something so trivial. OH I'm such a negative bastard! Forget everything I've said thus far! I can't wait to sit back and watch this movie over and over and over!!!! It's going to rock the party that rocks the party!!!! I can't WAIT for another exhaustive review of this film to go through! HARRY!! Keep up the good work!!!! Oh, and by the way, remember all the analysis for the Phantom Menace, ID4, and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back? WE MUST BELIEVE THE HYPE!! HARRY!! I NEED ANOTHER EXHAUSTIVE ANALYSIS OF THIS FILM! I NEED TO HEAR WHT SOMEONE ELSE THINKS OF IT!!!! IO NEED THIER OPINION!!! - What?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 8:01 p.m. CST

    For Blade Deckard

    by pravda

    Book 1, Chapter 10, 'Strider': "...Merry was not there, and the fire had burned low. It was not until they had puffed up the embers into a blaze and THROWN IN A COUPLE OF FAGGOTS..." *** Book 2, Chapter 3, 'The Ring Goes South': "...Picking up a FAGGOT he held it aloft for a moment, and then with a word of command, naur an edraith ammen! he thrust the end of his staff into the midst of it... ...The fire burned low, and the last faggot was thrown on..." --- Here's your homoerotic subthemes, the major part of the book, right here. ;)

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 8:20 p.m. CST

    oh. . . my. . . God. . . the world makes sense now

    by PoliMan4

    I only read the beginning and the end of the this review, but that was enough. . . My reaction when he said it was one of the greatest movies he had ever seen: YYYYYYEEEEAAAHHH BBIITTCCHH!!!!!!!!! and it was really loud too. I can't wait.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 8:45 p.m. CST

    Question for Frodo Lives -

    by Entmoot

    Actually 2 questions: 1) My favorite part of the whole damn trilogy is the scouring of the shire. So does Galadriel give the phial to frodo and *cross fingers* the box of dirt to Sam? Ok Second question - 2) If Frodo leaves the Shire immediately, how the hell does Bilbo get to Rivendell before him. I've seen pics of the two of them there, and hes got to get sting and the mithril armor there.. sooooo.. could you please explain that one for me? Thanks. This movie is gonna rule.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 8:47 p.m. CST

    Is "Cthuloid" a word?

    by Critical Bill

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 8:48 p.m. CST

    The coolest part of all 3 movies will be.....

    by Entmoot

    When the mouth of Sauron throws Sting and the mithril coat at the feet of Gandalf and crew at the Black Gate of Mordor in Return of the King. And despair will fill them all, for then the slimmest of hopes they had were lost.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 8:51 p.m. CST

    DOES! THE! FUCKING! BALROG! HAVE! WINGS?! Inquiring geeks want

    by Critical Bill

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9 p.m. CST

    One movie to rule them all...

    by JoeGillis

    O.K! Got my tickets today. Only 21 days to go. Can u believe it???

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:03 p.m. CST

    Still waiting for a "non geek" review....

    by cookiepuss

    We know that New Line employees and connected geeks like the movie, but it will be very interesting to hear a LOTR newbie's fresh opinion.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:05 p.m. CST

    correct english usage.

    by Kizeesh

    I believe the term is Cthulu-esque. errr Harry himself confirmed that the Balrog had wings ages ago. I want to know if Boromir's Dream is shown or even mentioned. also does Boromir get to use his Horn? Hell please just tell me about SEAN BEAN!!!!!!!!

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:17 p.m. CST

    Can wait... not a huge fan!

    by Kiyone

    Well, okay, I am looking forward to the LOTR movies (got my tickets already from, I just wanted to do a lame parody of "Can't wait... such a huge fan!", since that guy doesn't appear to have posted in this Talkback yet.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:22 p.m. CST

    You're a bigger man than I am Harry...

    by 007-11

    alcoholic libations and leather seats while watching LOTR is right up my alley

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:24 p.m. CST

    will LOTR be a hit?

    by Bob Can

    that seems to be the million dollar question around here with the rapid fan boys saying it will be the biggest Box Office Grosser and the "anti-fan boys" that say that New Line is going to go under for making these. My opionon? It will be big, belive me it's going to be big. However not Star Wars big, not Titantic big, not Harry Potter big. However I think it will draw people in, I have a couple of female friends that aren't your D&D fanboy types. The types that don't like sci-fi or are big movie fans. Hell one likes "The Other Sister" for crying out loud. And they both want to see LOTR. To me that's a sign that LOTR will be a big movie. However my 12 year old brother who likes sci-fi, Harry Potter, etc, thinks it looks "alright", don't worry he'll be going if I have to drag him there. There is crossover, but it's adult crossover, kids will not be seeing this. And hopefully I'll be surprised. I think this movie will be a slow build thoug. Don't go in expecting big weekend box office numbers, watch it build over several weeks

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:27 p.m. CST

    If you're going to troll...

    by Kerrak least do it with some subtlety. Otherwise, you come off sounding like a giggly adolescent with time to kill and brain cells that quiver in terror at the thought of responding or contributing with intelligence. Right dark_keith?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:31 p.m. CST

    Yes, the fucking Balrog has wings!

    by MPG

    That is already known since the Cannes footage, because it was confirmed that it is a John Howe Balrog. Really, if you're going to ask a question, ask one that hasn't been answered already months ago, and don't act like your life depends on it (i.e. take the finger off the damn shift key!).

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:33 p.m. CST

    S w e e t S a s s y M o l l a s s y

    by RedCapitalist


  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:39 p.m. CST


    by EvilNight

    Haha... I'm enjoying the thought of all you naysayers paying to see this flick in the theaters multiple times. You poor pathetic fools are about to get the treat of your lives and don't even know it. I almost envy you the asskicking you are going to get... I'm going in knowing how good it is going to be... you'll get dragged in three weeks later kicking and screaming by your parents/friends/coworkers who are going back to see it for the third time, then the movie will play, and you'll all realize what asses you've been (not that you'd be big enough to admit you were wrong in an AICN talkback of course). Hopefully this film will teach some of you turkeys a much needed lesson in humility. Save your responses, I already know I'm right so don't bother with the BS arguments. I've read 4 reviews by diehard tolkien fans that are drooling over it, so it has the book audience... and I've also read 3 reviews by tolkien virgins and non-geeks who are also blown away. Considering the source material is of the highest caliber ever written, that's all I needed to see to know it's a killer flick. Perhaps we'll get lucky and one of the three LoTR films will knock that piece of shit Titanic from the modern top spot... and just maybe dethrone the immortal Gone with the Wind as well.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Stopped reading as soon as he said there are spoilers here...

    by Robert Blake

    But I know, we all know, THIS IS GOING TO KICK ASS!!! Peter Jackson rules!

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:46 p.m. CST

    Hey Moriarty!

    by EvilNight

    Get your ass into a theater and review this flick will ya? I already know what Harry's review will be like, hell I could write it for him (No offense, big red ;). Yours, on the other hand, interests me very much, especially if you are still an "evangelical loon" after seeing the final film. You blow a fuse on your time machine? I'm going to have to send you some updated spanner technology, time machines are so quaint...

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:47 p.m. CST

    Sweet Pappy Johnson With An Erection

    by Flaparoo

    If there was ever a movie to see on the largest screen possible, this is it, can't wait.

  • For a while, I was thinking: Well, they may have a point... this movie can suck... it can be bad... really. But after reading all these reviews, I don't give a damn anymore. Who knows, perhaps the movie will suck for a general audience. Perhaps it will end up with a rating of 2/10 on I don't give a flying fuck, because I know now that it will be great for ME, that it will erase the good old trilogy out of my mind (it's about time, really, 20 years is a damn long time for one movie trilogy to lead your favorite movie list) and that I will watch it over and over and over again. I really don't give a damn anymore if this trilogy goes down as the biggest failure in movie history and if it drags New Line down with me. I know it's going to work for me. I just want there to be enough money for the post-production on the next two movies and for the DVD release. That's enough.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Bad taste, meet the feebles

    by lame

    This is amazing, have any of you seen Bad Taste and Meet the Feebles directed by Jackson? Very weird shit. The studio is obviously on the gutsy side. I wonder if any of the CGI characters lost in the background of FOTR are doing huge lines of coke or basement panty videos as in MTF's?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:53 p.m. CST

    Hey Darth Kieth...


    Why don't ya go stick a light sabre up your ass! If you can't recognize when something special is comming at you like a freight train, it would be better to shut your pie hole than look like a complete moron. BTW, I did recognize the SW reference in your name, sweet cheeks... Ever wonder where Big Director of Chins got alot his ideas??? Well do ya...

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:01 p.m. CST

    Boy Howdy

    by stranger brew

    I agree with RedCapitalist... NEATO!

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:15 p.m. CST


    by Smugbug

    I wanna see it now. So there.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:18 p.m. CST

    As with HP, there are no literal "spoliers"....unless you call J

    by Terry_1978

    Since everyone except the select few that haven't read the book or aren't familiar with the story knows what's going to happen going in, the only spoilers to worry about are what Gollum is gonna look like, as well as the Balrog. I doubt Jackson is gonna receive the same backlash Columbus got from people who said his f/x work took away from their imaginations as far as what they thought certain characters and scenarios would look like. Voldemort in the HP movie looked exactly how I assumed...pale, thin face...creepy eyes..snake-like appearance. We all have our interpretation of Gollum and the Balrog....Jackson won't do us wrong.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:23 p.m. CST


    by Kronos22

    A movie directed by Peter Jackson and having Elijah Wood as one of the main protagonists? LOL gimme a break. Oh, and don't start w/ McKellan and Lee, because those 2 are just trying to break into more mainstream films. Case in point: McKellan did "X Men" and Lee is doing "AOTC" neither of which are Shakespeare calibur work, so don't even go there. They're actors, and they're just acting, that's all. I'm pretty sure McKellan didn't study the psychology of Magneto, nor did Lee study the politics of Doku. Face it people, when was the last time that old english spoken flicks made any large amounts of money? What about fantasy? LOL...ok, now imagine mixing the two - what do you get? A film that only fans will go see. Am I a fan? Nope. Did Lucas take notes from LOTR? I would say probably. But then again, he took some notes from Buddhism, Knights Templar,Kurosawa, Japanese theatre...see my point? All creators borrow from other sources. The messianic story, or motif or w/e, has been around as long as time itself. Should those people be slammed? No, because then you'd have to slam the 4 apostles that wrote what we call the New Testament; as well as countless of other accepted institutions. In fact, by even saying that JRRT said the books had a "Christian" message to them, he is in fact borrowing from Christianity, so let's go ahead and slam him. In fact, slam him for being a racist, b/c that's the only realistic overtone I can find in his books (White or british folklore fantasy creatures going agains "dark/black" creatures and enemies.) Get the point?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:33 p.m. CST

    A Few Answers To Questions

    by FrodoLives

    I'll try to answer a few of the questions I've seen above. 1. Yes, you get to hear Boromir's horn. To be honest, this was one of the only parts I kinda wish had been done different. They used a real horn and had him blowing on it. The result was kinda....less than I had hoped. It didn't ruin anything for me, but there you go. 2. Do you hear about Boromir's dream sequence? Yes. He relates it to Aragorn. 3. Does Frodo get the vial and does Sam get the box? Yes, Frodo gets the vial. No, Sam does not get the box. Frodo is the only one to come away with anything from Lothlorien. Again, one of those changes that I'm sure will come clear with time. Again, go into this to see a great movie. If you go in looking for fine points, you'll find stuff to gripe about. You always will. No one person's vision is going to match everyone (or anyone) else's. Go in to see Peter Jackson's vision. And to revel in it. The more I reflect on the movie the more I DESPERATELY want to see it again. I simply cannot believe this movie!!! For those that think I'm a plant, please read Harry's statement at the beginning. I have no affiliation with New Line. If I did, my wife wouldn't have had to bother Harry to get a one sheet. I'm just a geek who loves LOTR to death and am simply beside myself to see this movie bring to life my favorite story of all time.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:39 p.m. CST

    Repost of my previous talkback, just for you, Darth_Keith...

    by Curmudgeon

    Geez, wish I had a nutsack to hold. Honey, come here... seriously, what's with this 'guy film' crap? When I read LOTR did you think I spent all my time going through the index looking for stuff about Arwen? Or rating a flick based on my kids' reaction to it? Give me a friggin' break. (WinkyDauphin, you are SO right--maybe we can have a vid party and rent "The Promise", "Endless Love" and "Love Story" instead! Can't threaten the mighty males by bucking their stereotypes.) Gandalf was the one I lusted after--always did like powerful, older men. With large, glowing staffs. Ironic for me that a gay man is playing him. ;) I sat in my dorm room in the 70's and spent hours with my friends casting the ideal LOTR movie, drawing pix of the characters; friends of mine belonged to bands with names based on the characters, and wrote songs about scenes from the books, and painted the book and calendar cover art on their doors. I haven't been excited about a fim since SW:ANH. Bell bottoms and lowrise jeans are back, and my alma mater has listed a course centered around Tolkien, Lewis, et. al.; so as PJ said, "This is the time!" Rise, ye 40+ baby boomers, the movie of your dreams is upon us! Don't get trampled by the roving gangs of middle-aged women charging the cinema doors! (Sarcasmatron, you were dead right--maybe New Line should contact AARP about advertising space.) Gotta go find hubby--time to play "find my precioussss..."

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:50 p.m. CST

    Keanu wanted the role of Strider

    by Miss Lavendar

    Sigh, but I guess I will see this movie anyway. Viggo is somewhat of a hottie.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:50 p.m. CST

    Admit it, we ARE scared that this movie will under-perform at th

    by Cash Bailey

    But it's not for our fragile fanboy egos, it's simply that we need the movies to be successful in order to secure the future of the other two movies. Now let's look at these goons who are delighting in saying that this won't crack $150 million domestically. Maybe that's true, after all America is a country that not only accepts mediocrity, but actively encourages it (did I really read the Martin Lawrence was getting $20 mill for his next cinematic bowel-movement). But what you self-satisfied wet blankets have always failed to mention is that FOTR will easily double that take internationally, and this movie needs to take only $160 million to break even (don't forget that it's $300 mill for THREE movies). This story is worldwide, trans-generational and far beyond any lame brick-bats of criticism like the concept of 'low mainstream appeal'. The Joe and Jill Time-card's of the world are sheep, and will go and see anything if it is marketed enough (see aforementioned Martin Lawrence comment), but once the critics start touting this movie and reassuring the ignorant masses that this is a truly remarkable film (which, by all accounts, it IS) then people will react to the quality of the film itself. Another thing you fail to mention is the single most important factor to ANY film being successful: word of mouth. People will stagger out of this film, drained, grinning and drooling and they will tell every person they know to go see it PRONTO. Look outside your own pathetic circle for a minute and think of things on a worldwide scale for once, and you will feel like the ass you are.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:55 p.m. CST

    FRODO.LIVES - Are Beren and Luthien mentioned in the Movie?

    by Frenzy

    Thanks in advance!

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 11:03 p.m. CST

    No Jar Jar Binks = Kick Ass LOTR!!

    by Hate_Speech

    LOTR rocks and rolls.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 11:19 p.m. CST



    Hey, great review. I have a couple of questions. First, how is the Prancing Pony bar scene? You completely skipped it in your review. Is it like the book? Does Frodo dance and sing on the table and fall with the ring slipping on his finger? Does Merry have his run-in with the Black Riders outside with the "Black Breath" and everything? What about the Hobbits' first meeting with Strider? And Butterbur and Nob? Second, you also skipped the Fellowship dealing with Gandalf's fall after they get out of Moria. Is it as powerful as the previous reviewer says? Third, how is John Rhys-Davies? He's so instantly recognizible- can the audience accept him as Gimli? Last, are the size relationships between the characters convincing or noticeable. Do you instantly accept their size differences or is it a "How are they doing that?" kind of thing and therefore distracting? Please, please, please let me know!!! Thanx!!!

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 11:21 p.m. CST

    Underperforming is relative.

    by EvilNight

    You see, making $150M+ at the box office is a "blockbuster" and a good show for a movie. For LOTR tho I'd consider that a bomb. This material is capable of breaking all records if handled properly, so I guess that yes, we're all worried that it'll underperform. We all know it's blockbuster, but the quetsion is will this be an average blockbuster, or a record breaker? I'd personally be disappointed if it doesn't take in $350M domestic. We know it's going to clean house worldwide.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 11:32 p.m. CST

    THANK -YOU Frodo.Lives for the review but...

    by Butch_McTavish

    I still have my doubts regarding the movie. Like so many people on this site, LOTR is, emotionally, my favorite book but, will the films pack the emotional whallop I crave? Dunno. True I had doubts as to whether Shore would've been able to pull it off yet, he did it! The music gets better with each successive listen. At least, your words seem sincere and it's easy to tell you're a fellow Tolkienite. I'm worried that Sam didn't get the 'box' upon leaving Lothlorien, however. That does not bode well for 'Scouring of the Shire'/3rd film events. The rumor that Peter Travers loved the film sounds very promising, though (hope it's true). ********************************************************************Oh, I know this has nothing to do with LOTR but... I've read a lot of folk out there already saying that LOTR will never do the $$$ of Titanic, it being such a "great" film, etc, etc, after all it won "Best Picture". NEWS BREAK: Titanic was very enjoyable, no doubt about that, but, it did not deserve the dubious Best Picture honor bestowed by the Academy, L.A. Confidential did. FACT! Live with it. You'll sleep better.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 11:35 p.m. CST

    Hey Dark Keeter

    by EvilNight

    Do you actually have an opinion or do you just babble non-commital nonsense like that all the time? Have you read the books? Did you like the books? Did you like TPM? If you are wondering why the Tolkien fanatics are hoping these movies are blockbusters, I can at least tell you that. Fantasy is a dead genre in movies and television, mainly, because it's hard to write good fantasy and bring it to life in visuals. Look at Xena for example... fun but let's not call it a good story. Fantasy is very much alive in the book markets. If LoTR is a commercial blockbuster, it has a shot at revitalizing a dead genre. I for one am sick of teen movies (take your pick), souless boring sci-fi (sphere, evolution, etc), tacky melodrama (pearl harbor etc) and cheap ass scare films (13 ghosts, etc). LoTR if done well is capable of making a change in the market, and that's why we want it to succeed. It's also an "epic" and we could use a few more epics. Of course, it'll spawn a series of shitty fantasy movie knock offs and clones which will bomb horribly, but it might also green light a few good fantasy projects that are on the back burner (or dead script pile) that we otherwise wouldn't get to see.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 11:41 p.m. CST

    Hey, here's confirmation on Rolling Stone naming FOTR the be

    by EvilNight

    Here ye go:

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 11:46 p.m. CST

    Wouldn't this be funny...


    If FOTR tanks domestically (150M), but is a tremendous hit internationally (300M+). What would Hollywood do? Moviemaking would change thats what. Not that I think FOTR will do less than 200M domestic. If the critics, such as Travers & Ebert start calling it "Picture of the year", I'd buy as much stock in AOL/TM as possible. Why? Because the lines next December for TTT will make EP1 look like the opening of a Rob Schnider movie.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:06 a.m. CST


    by EvilNight

    Hey, I love the Matrix... that, Braveheart, Shakespeare in Love, and Fight Club are some of my top films... I expect LoTR honestly to rake in more than any of those films, and at least as many awards as Shakespeare in Love did (7 for those of you keeping track). LoTR's definitely got more "mainstream" appeal than Matrix did because it'll nail the 35+ crowd to the wall in a way that Matrix didn't. My parents gave less than a shit about Matrix (hated it in fact) but they want to see LoTR in a bad way. Jurassic Park and ET are only mediocre compared to the content of the LoTR books, they are that good. If the adaptation is good enough there's no reason it won't eclipse them at the box office. Audiences certainly haven't been crying for LoTR, however anyone who has ever read those books has dreamed of seeing it as a movie. It's something every LoTR reader has wanted since they finished reading the books for the first time. Every single person who has read those books WILL see these movies unless they are terrible adaptations (and by appearances they are stellar). Audiences want only one thing, and that's good entertainment. E2, Toy Story 3, MIB2, or the sequel flavor of the month are all good entertainment, but even those were unknown films and franchises once. Did audiences want Toy Story (the original) before they saw it, back when it was just a script? Following your logic only sequels would make money. I was buying a copy of LoTR (the books) for my 10yr old nephew the other day, and the fella at the counter said that was the fifty-seventh copy he had sold that day. 57! In a day! The movie guide opened at 13 on the bestseller list! There's a big buzz on this film... the reviews are decent proof that it won't disappoint the hype that's building for it. To this day, every person I've spoken to about the films (and there are many) has said they want to see it. I've yet to meet a single person who outright told me they were not interested in seeing the LoTR movies. I've been talking to folks about the movies for two years now, so that's a LOT of people.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:12 a.m. CST

    Does the Balrog have wings?

    by Ai! Aniron 12/19

    Actually, it's "Fool of a Took! This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking party! Throw yourself in next time, and then you will be no further nuiscance!" And it's Amon hen, not Amun hen. Ah well! you can be forgiven, I myself shall undoubtedly need to be dragged from the theatre, for failure of my legs to work, so complete will be my utter geekish joy at seeing this film. Does the Balrog have wings?

  • nutsack seems to be the word of the moment in LotR talkbacks. Really, are people being sarcastic about this Balrog wings thing, or have they simply missed all the movie news related to LotR in the last, say, 6 months? There are so many other details in this movie that are more important than the question if the Balrog has wings or if he has a big nutsack.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:31 a.m. CST

    Harry has bigger boobies than Liv Tyler

    by Harry Head

    I bet Harry has hit that, she's hot but not that hot.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:32 a.m. CST


    by EvilNight

    I always thought the best solution would be to make it visually hard to tell if the Balrog in the movies had wings as well, and thus preserve the endless debate over such a silly matter. ;)

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:51 a.m. CST

    Just registered to say a few things...

    by Princess Artemis

    a) I am 26 and female and dying to see LotR. So there you go. There is interest in the 20-30 femalish demographic. b) Hobbits are dark skinned. Tolkien was just very good at not describing people. Yeah, the Elves and the Numenoreans were fair-skinned (most had dark hair), but the prologue to FotR clearly states almost ALL Hobbits are brown-skinned, so no, Tolkien wasn't all about white people defeating black enemies. Actually, the Hobbits that could get away with being Caucasion, notably one Perigrin Took, was a complete genius at getting everyone else in trouble. Just because every movie/game/cartoon/etc made seems to forget that Hobbits have brown skin doesn't mean they didn't.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:59 a.m. CST

    More Answers

    by FrodoLives

    Beren and Luthien: No, they're not mentioned. A pity, but easy to see why they're cut. The Prancing Pony: The scene is changed a bit....the hobbits are there, there's this wonderful line where Merry realizes that beer comes in pints and decides that he's going to get himself one.....Frodo is being tempted by the Ring to put it on....then hears Merry at the bar saying something like "Baggins? Why, that's Frodo's name!" Merry and Pippin were never indoctrinated into the Underhill thing. Frodo rushes to the bar to shut him up and, as he is pulling him away, slips and falls, the Ring flying from his hand. This is that whole slow-motion-Frodo-reaching-up-for-the-Ring-scene that you've seen in the trailers. The Ring falls ONTO his finger. Very obviously through the Ring's own maneuverings. Frodo disappears, reappears under a table and is grabbed by Strider and taken to a back room. You very quickly proceed through Strider's intro, hiding the Hobbits, the Knife in the Dark, etc. Then they're off and running. Much shorter than what's in the book. Barliman is there, but Nob is not. It's about as truncated as it can be. Most of the journey to Rivendell is handled pretty quickly. Oh! and to answer how the Hobbits get their swords (with the absence of Bombadil): Aragorn gives them to them.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:16 a.m. CST

    Box office records and oscars? Please

    by stygian67

    FOTR is not only not going to set any box office records, whether opening or total, it's also not going to even get nominated for any Academy Awards (excluding technical ones). So what? Oscars aren't any better judge of a film's quality than box office is. Titanic won best picture as did Gladiator and Shakespeare in Love. Did any of these deserve to win? No. The only movie in recent memory that even half-way deserved to win best picture was American Beauty. Whoopie Goldberg won an Oscar for Ghost, and has Gary Oldman ever even been nominated for an Oscar? Enough said. The friggin mom from the Partridge Family has an Oscar for crying out loud. Taxi Driver has been voted best movie of the 70's and Raging Bull best of the 80's in various polls. No best picture awards there. Citizen friggin Kane didn't even win the Oscar did it? The Oscars are a popularity contest just like the box office, albeit it one with different demographics. Does anyone think how many albums a record sells is any indication of its quality - or if it wins a grammy or not? It's not that much different for films. I think it would be a shame if FOTR doesn't break 200mil, if only for the sake of a decent number of people getting exposed to a good quality story and film (assuming it is indeed good - the film that is). I can't remember the last time a film really blew me off my feet - probably not since I was a kid. I guess I'm just getting old and have higher standards....the funny part is I don't really have very high expectations when it comes to films anymore. The only film I've seen at the theater all year that I've really liked much at all was Shrek, and it wasn't all that and a bag of chips. If FOTR blows me off my feet I'll be happy as a fact I'll be happy if I just don't roll my eyes at the horrible filmaking like I always seem to do at movies recently. A good movie and 200mil to reward New Line for their efforts would be just fine by me.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:16 a.m. CST

    I know I said I wasn' going to post until Dec. 19th, but one

    by IAmLegolas

    The greatest adventure is what lies ahead. Today and tomorrow are yet to be said. The chances, the changes are all yours to make. The mold of your life is in your hands to break. The greatest adventure is there if you're bold Let go of the mood that life makes you hold. To measure the meaning can make you delay It's time you stop thinking and wasting the day. A man who's a dreamer and never takes heed Who think of a world that is just make believe. Will never know passion will never know pain Who sits by the window will one day see rain.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:44 a.m. CST

    Still More Answers (and a HUGE correction)

    by FrodoLives

    First off, a correction on what I said before about Beren and Luthien being left out. I'm an idiot. I just realized that the whole Aragorn/Arwen love affair thing IS Beren and Luthien. So, while they're technically left out, you actually see the tale played out (at least in very small part) on screen. Wonderful! Peter Jackson is a clever and devious man. For the person asking about the loss of Gandalf and if it was moving: YES! Hugely so. As I said in the review, if you're not tearing up as Frodo cries out for Gandalf, check your pulse, 'cuz you probably had a heart attack during the whole Balrog sequence. Which reminds me...a lot of the 'controversy' over whether the Balrog had wings is kinda pointless. I can see where it came from, as the smoke/shadow and flames rising from it can give that effect at times, but THINK ABOUT IT: The Balrog FALLS. Unless you're talking about decorative little dinky wings, then what sense does that make? You'll absolutely LOVE the Balrog. Never fear. For the person wondering if the size differences came of as natural: Hugely so, yes! For the first couple of minutes you're kinda taken aback by the size difference. And then you're just used to it. Of COURSE Gandalf towers over everyone....he's a wizard, they're Hobbits. By the time the party rolls around, you're used to it and it's just seemless. There's this marvelous scene of Gandalf, towering over everyone, dancing with the Hobbits. Just thinking about it is enough to make me crack this huge, idiot grin ;-) The fact that the size differences just seem so NATURAL is a testament to what makes this movie great. It's not about's about the utter lack of any effects. There were no special effects of the Hobbits being smaller than everyone else....Hobbits ARE smaller than everyone else! Everything just looks so utterly natural. The Balrog is another example. Is it an effect? Absolutely. It's a giant, CGI monster. If you analyze the movie, you realize it has to be. I mean, they couldn't have made a REAL Balrog, could they? 'Cuz that's sure how it comes across on screen....All of the effects through the film just have this effortless and natural feel to them that you hardly realize they're effects. You can utterly immerse yourself in the world that Peter Jackson has created. I can't even begin to imagine how much praise WETA is going to get for this one. And they deserve every bit of it. This is history in the making.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:54 a.m. CST

    um darth.....

    by oorat22

    audience want ep2? who, the star wars fans? ewan blasted the freaking title, shows how much he liked the movie. also, yeah people are gonna see ep2, cause special effects make that movie, cause well there isnt any acting or good writing. i hope ep2 is good i really do, cause ep1 was utter crap. i saw it once. the first time i watched it in the theater, i literally couldnt sit through it again when my dad bought the tape. i had to leave the room cause it was horrible. it was better then battlefield earth, take that for what you will. jackson will beat lucas, maybe he wont beat the bank, maybe he will, who knows, but movie wise, jackson will have made the better movie. lotr is a labor of love, much like the original trilogy, lucas is now just after twinky money. hence the over hype of products for ep1 that undersold so horribly that some bookstores in britian went under cause they spent all their money on the book versions and it turned out no one wanted the book. funny that. or the toys, the toys never moved up untill they got marked down to 2 dollars and buy one get one free. star wars is just hype with a lot of money behind it, lotr is a work of passion, of love for film for a good story by an inventive, indie style director. the evil empire is about to be over thrown by the most unlikely of persons imaginable.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:33 a.m. CST

    I have the coolest girlfriend!

    by Mr. Goodbar

    Yeah, not only is she gorgeous, but SHE asked ME if I would go see LOTR with her! She's not a geek-chick or anything... SHE JUST RULES!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:41 a.m. CST


    by wilko185

    no doubt like a lot of other "geeks", I'm signing off for a while (I haven't read the latest lotr stories here, don't intend to). I saw what I wanted to earlier (first reviews indicate lotr is AWESOME, flaws are those to be expected by a bigstudio adaptation, blah blah). TB titleheads here at aicn indicate a boring obsession on "flop vs hit" and other such box-office nonsense (vs. Star wars..? still? Oh f' off, please. racism/sexism in lotr? yeh, do a f'kin google search on that and find why you're talking arse))... so I'll see y'all in a coupla weeks, when we can all discuss the merits of THE FILM on its own terms (I'm expecting greatness, but who can really say.....) __ wilko

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:41 a.m. CST

    I am soooo fucking freaked out of this movie I CAN'T FUCKING

    by gibsonite

    I think I'm gonna cry already. I want this shown NOW!!!!!!!!!!! Not too many visit us every year with this much anticipation from audiences!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:41 a.m. CST

    I am soooo fucking freaked out of this movie I CAN'T FUCKING

    by gibsonite

    I think I'm gonna cry already. I want this shown NOW!!!!!!!!!!! Not too many visit us every year with this much anticipation from audiences!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:16 a.m. CST

    Yet another great review...

    by Eternal

    I guess that means only one thing: LOTR FUCKING ROCKS!!!!! Hard to believe really. I expected at least one trash-talking mofo to tear the movie apart, or say that only Tolkien fanatics would enjoy it, but no... Rarely have I seen this happen at AICN where opinions tend to be all over the place - and no doubt the gushing and drooling will go on for a while yet... Can't wait to see it myself!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:16 a.m. CST

    This just gets better and better

    by europop

    Frodo.Lives, thankyou so much for all the information! I am just praying that I enjoy it as much as you did! It's a shame that Beren/Luthien aren't mentioned, I was hoping that Aragorns song about them at Weathertop would be in briefly. As for not liking Boromirs horn, you say that he blows a real horn.. but how else could it have been done? Also, is Bilbo at the Council of Elrond? And what did you think of the uruk-hai pod birth?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:32 a.m. CST

    Who cares about the money- Let's be adult about this.

    by Mahlia

    The people who made LOTR obviously busted their asses off and had fun. Can't we all as veiwers just have fun, eat popcorn and enjoy ourselves? Can't people be nice about something for once? The bitter, angry Star Wars fans make me sick. They're SO ignorant about tolkien, but they're trying to sound like experts, which only makes them sound more stupid than they are. *cough* Darth Keith *cough*. I don't care if LOTr is a financial success. I'm not sure it'll be successful INITIALLY. It might take time to build a mainstream audience. And what if it takes a few years to blow into the big bucks? The numbers are still there.... Even if it takes 5 years, it'll make back 10times what it cost worldwide.... And whoever said this is true: It's not JUST "lotr" the fans are hoping for. We want this to revitalize FANTASY as a serious genre for film because Fantasy is not taken seriously. Its pigeonholed and kept to a minimum. This movie could revitalize something that could be a magnificent alternative to the types of stories we're used to getting in movies.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:41 a.m. CST

    Darth Keith

    by Sinister

    I never wanted to get drawn into the Star wars VS LOTR debate but Darth Keith really needs to be put in his place. I have never claimed that LOTR would be huge...I hope it will be, but that doesn't really matter if it is as good as I hope. So...audiences are crying out for SW EP2? ...Is that why the first LOTR trailer online was downloaded 1.7 million times in 24 hours? Almost double that of SW EP1. And the internet site recieved 360 million hits in the following month. But yeah the audiences are crying out for EP2...bullshit. Tell me Darth Keith...did you actually enjoy TPM? Once again I would like to make it clear that I DON'T believe I know how well LOTR will fare. But these figures I have just shown are simple FACTS...Deal with it Darth.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:49 a.m. CST

    Oh yeah, baby.

    by NUXX

    Im a rabid Starwars fan. I have been ever since i saw ANH in the late seventies. I have seen all the movies, and have been immersed in the whole SW mythology since the beginning. I read the Hobbit and LOTR the first time when i was 14 years old. It completely blew me out of the water. i have read the whole saga several times since. Now you say: Whats your point? Well, Star Wars was entertaining, great and something i will cherish for the rest of my life. Something i will show to my kids. But watching LOTR come to life has been a lifelong dream for me. The characters in SW pale in comparison to the LOTR characters. There is a sense of depth in LOTR that SW simply doesnt own. And what i have seen and heard so far has been impressive to say at least! And with that off my back, one other thing: Some of you people are just plain stupid and ignorant. If FOTR only makes 150 mil in the States, it will surprise you to see how much it will make worldwide. Dont underestimate the foreign market. Because the rest of the world love these books, and do not consider them anything less than incredible. Go see your Pearl Harbours, your crappy Martin Lawrence movies, and your American Pies. This is Epic. And BTW, some idiot keeps saying that this wont win any Oscars? Hahahaha! I spit on thee! NUXX OUT......

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:22 a.m. CST

    Won't be big?

    by moonkids

    From what I'm seeing, this will be bigger than anything since.. anything. I live in Australia and my parents own a bookshop, and I'm telling you, this is huge. Their shop is selling dozens of copies of LotR and the movie tie-ins, and has been for the past month (that's two months before the film's release!). It's only going to get bigger.. and bigger. Everyone I know wants to see this film, from big fantasy fans to people with no interest in other fantasy, even people who hate star wars-- and they range in age from teenage to 50+. The only thing I'm disappointed about is that the Australian release date is Dec. 26.. what's with that? We have to wait a week longer than most of the rest of the world... *sigh*, how will I survive?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:35 a.m. CST

    "Arrogant" americans!

    by Mahlia

    Let me first say that I'm an american and PROUD of it. But Americans are arrogant bastards. They're fearing that LOTR won't gross well domestically. They fear that it won't do well in AMERICA. But we're forgetting that we don't have any claim on LOTR. It's not "ours" to worry about. It's cocky to assume that LOTR could be made or broken by the money it makes here. LOTR is written by an english author. But it dosen't even belong to England exclusively. It belongs to every reader and fan of the books. It belongs to the world. The worldwide Grosses will be fantastic.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:38 a.m. CST

    Yet Another Round of Answers

    by FrodoLives

    Yes, Bilbo is at the Council of Elrond. The order of events is this: Bilbo's party, Bilbo leaves (just like in the book). Gandalf takes off to research the Ring (which he now suspects to be the One Ring) at Gondor. Gandalf returns, tells Frodo about the Ring and has him leave the Shire immediately. Gandalf, in the meantime rides off to talk with Saruman. As for Boromir's horn, the only disappointing bit for me was the actual sound that ended up coming out of it. Of course they had to use a real horn, but I suppose I had kinda hoped they would....alter the sound somehow. As it is, it sounds a bit like a lame truck horn. Like I said before, however, this is such a minor gripe in the grand scheme of things....

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 7:29 a.m. CST

    The Female Demograph

    by dume78

    To all the people out there that think no women will want to see this all I can say is Wha?! My Girlfriend, her three sisters, her mother, her aunts and my own sister are all dying to see this movie. Make of that what you will. As for all you that are not going to go in for LOTR because of your undying love for Lucas, get over it, go see both of them, you won't regret it. GO ON YA GOOD THING!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:33 a.m. CST


    by Razor42

    There's just one thing that slightly bothers me. In the intro he describes, the history and importance of the Ring are explained off the bat. THEN we go to the hobbits. See, I always apprceciated how in the book the hobbits were as clueless of this world as the reader was, so the reader learns the rules and history of everything along with the hobbits. There is probably the need for some sort of opening explaining at least Bilbo's part, and from there it makes sense to go thrugh the rest of it, but i would have been more comfortable if the whole thing was explained later at the Council

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:57 a.m. CST

    Bloody Enya (rant follows)

    by SpacePervert

    Just like every other artist who serves up a Best Of/Recycled Hits every year just in time for Christmas so you can buy it for that person who's a bit spooky and wannabe-Celtic and you can't come up with a better idea for. So let's rewind. "Watermark" was fantastic, also a great seduction album. "Carribean Blue" was pretty good too, and that music for the TV series was evocative, haunting, yadda yadda. However its turned into the sanitised slide that lets wannabe-celts pretend they're into folk music when in fact it's designer wallpaper music. Lessee, every effort since has been the SAME ALBUM. The rhythmic track about vikings, the haunting choral track, the plinka-plinka track, the poem to music.. South Park got it DEAD RIGHT with that euthanasia gag. Okay, I'm sorry, carry on. But if you want to listen to some real music, hunt out everything Clannad did before "Magical Ring". Or listen to the bloody Pogues.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:58 a.m. CST


    by taismaul

    stop crying watch the film ENJOY ..ESCAPE FOR A WHILE isnt that what films are about both star wars and lotr will be good films but wont change the world

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:58 a.m. CST

    What about the Wargs?

    by Frobobo

    Read the FrodoLives review no mention on the scene of the Fellowship fighting off the attack of the wargs prior to Moria. This is strange. I rember reading early of a scene with an exploding tree which everyone assumed had to do with the wolves attack, but I heard no mention of it over the last 6 months. Has anyone heard if this has been cut from the film?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9 a.m. CST

    Thanks for the laugh, Amazing Larry

    by Huneybee

    I'm "a huge fan" of LotR and found that little scenario hysterically funny. Keep your head down and watch your back. ;)____Frodo.Lives, Thanks for the wonderful review and the follow up information. The fact that you are not being ripped to shreds by the TB'ers should give you an indication of what a good job you have done with this. That said, I ain't gonna be readin' no more of your responses...toooo much information. =)____Bee

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:06 a.m. CST


    by SpacePervert

    "Shepherd Moons". Did I mention the track in latin and the token gaelic title?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:13 a.m. CST

    Answers (again)

    by FrodoLives

    Back again for more....There is no attack of the Wargs. That was cut. To give you guys an idea of why they had to cut so much, the journey to Rivendell is probably the section of the film with the most "cuts". It still takes an hour and fifteen minutes for them to get there. There's just no way to have everything in the film. I firmly believe that Jackson has done a phenomenal job of choosing what he HAD to have in the movie and what he could cut. They were painful decisions, but necessary, IMHO. As for Enya, her songs come into play in Rivendell (just before the Aragorn/Arwen sequence) and in Lothlorien as the lament for Gandalf. Both of them are handled beautifully. Truly exception. The Lothlorien piece just has this eery, haunting quality to it....Elven voices echoing softly through the forest....just wonderful. I had concerns when I first heard that Enya was doing songs for the movie. They were allayed when I heard her recordings. Even the recordings that you've heard don't do the movie-version justice, however....the way they edit in the sound to give it that haunting, other-worldly quality is superb.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:16 a.m. CST


    by FrodoLives

    Crap. Correction to the Enya bit above: Her second song is not in Lothlorien...that's a choir. Sorry. The second song is "May It Be"....that's part of the credits and fits in equally wonderfully as the rest of the soundtrack. Just a very soft, somber ending to a great movie.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Give Frodo.Lives an Oscar for Best Movie Revie + Follow-up

    by RedCapitalist

    You heard me! LOTR2WIN

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:56 a.m. CST


    by rev_skarekroe

    I didn't want to be a pathetic geek that kept complaining about Jackson changing a lot of stuff. But it's becoming painfully obvious that despite Jackson's claims that they went back to the book every time the filmmakers had a question about what to do, they never really UNDERSTOOD the book or what makes it so great. This is not just an action adventure story and almost all of the changes I've heard about so far (the wizard's duel, Merry and Pippin stealing mushrooms, the lack of the song at the Prancing Pony, Arwen racing Frodo across the ford) seem calculated to make the film more action oriented, thus losing a lot of the subtlety of the original text. I'll still be there opening night, but I'm greatly lowering my expectations. sk

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Dear Mr. Frodo...

    by Praetor

    Another query I'm afraid. I was just listening to the LOTR soundtrack, track 17 'the breaking of the fellowship' and I was wondering at what point the credits roll. Does the bit with the lone singer kick in whils't the final images are playing or else whils't the credits are rolling. Its just that in my mind I see the final moments with Sam and Frodo drifting away to that sad song, like the end of Buffy season two. Jesus I just re-read the above. I am such a frigging geek. Oh well, shoot me.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:19 a.m. CST

    One review to rule them all.

    by rabid_republican

    All hail Frodo Lives for what can only be described as a tour de force fanboy review--I state that not to be derogatory. His general enthusiasm and background as a fan makes this sound like this film will be very worth while. My excitement grows still...

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:21 a.m. CST

    Let's not get carried away

    by SpacePervert

    no offence, Frodo.Lives, but I haven't read your article, although I appreciate its value to readers. I scanned a few lines and realised that it would kind of make the film obsolete except as eye candy, and I'm rather hoping that it'll stand as a piece of cinematic storytelling. But, what we have here is not a review. It's a synopsis with commentary. a good review tells you whether and why its any good or not, and gives you an idea of what to expect so that you aren't over or under-hyped. Sorry if I'm cranky, I cracked a rib last night.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:30 a.m. CST

    Don't dis Ebert

    by Chocky

    "This is my happening and it freaks me out!" Ebert sometimes makes odd choices for the movies he likes. But he's not in the same league of movie reviewer-whoredom as a lot of other film critics -- he heartily slammed Pearl Harbor, for instance. Between Ebert & Roeper and Jonathan Rosenbaum (Chicago's resident snotty critic who never goes on press junkets) you can pretty much figure out whether a movie is worth seeing or not. Besides being a prominent movie critic, Ebert is also becoming a prominent liberal - gives speeches on the evils of racism, writes essays for the Chicago Sun Times, etc. Liberals desperately need more rational Eberts to balance out the whacked-out Chomskys.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:39 a.m. CST


    by AliceInWonderlnd

    Regarding stuff that should and shouldn't be left in, I must say that I was surprised by Frodo's song at the Prancing Pony going. I always thought that if every other song were cut, that (and Sam singing in the tower at Cirith Ungol, possibly, if they cut that, I will be *mad*) would stay in. However, there is no way on God's Earth that you could film Tom Bombadil, Barrow Wights and itty bitty secondary characters as it is in the book and get them to Bree in 45 minutes. Jesus, they'd probably spend about 45 minutes just singing all the songs in that section. But I am dissapointed about the Prancing Pony. That whole section works really well, and the song serves the comedy and the action. Oh well.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:40 a.m. CST

    Holy Smoking Guns!

    by SpacePervert

    For a casual reader, you sure sound more riled than any militant foaming Tolien fan. Let's recall PJ's words right here many moons ago - it's his interpretation, not the final and only interpretation. Get a sense of humour. While you're there, get me one too.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:51 a.m. CST

    Major spoilers

    by morpheus

    Actually trolls are NOT ten metres tall.They should be around the height of ents.More or less,fourteen feet tall.Four metres.Sumpthin' along the lines of Potter's Hagrid.And any one read the 'Tolkien is for Wagner lite' article?.Ents are NOT based on the talking apple trees of OZ(!?).THey're based on an ancient paganistic legend of the Green Man.Green gEORGE.By Tolkien's descriptions,the ents are actually the plants' version of the elves....Abd whats with the moth?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:51 a.m. CST

    does the balrog have a nutsack?

    by lord_ruthven

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:01 a.m. CST

    Gimme spoilers

    by SpacePervert

    Does Sam say "My turn with the Magnum?" or "I'm coming for you mordor bastards!". "Does Gandalf cry "suck my knobbly staff, shitheads!" on the bridge at khazad-dum? Do they get to eat chuck?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Making Movies

    by rennyboy

    Okay... Imagine this... There's this guy, and he loves the Lord of the Rings. He's also a symphonic composer. So: he decides to make a symphony of the Lord of the Rings. He puts all the passion he can into it, breaking out all the feelings and character into songs. It last 18 hours. The audience shows up ever night, three hours a night, for six night in a row. Question: is everything there? No. Because no matter what, translating it to another medium demands that it's a translation. Only the book is the book. (Let's just accept that off the bat -- reality demands it.) I don't mean that you shouldn't love the book, but that you should accept the fact if Jackson has done his job well, he did not stage the pages and shoot them with a camera. He made a movie. What do we know about the medium of movies. Movies are single frames that thread through a projector, using the helpful ability of human beings to fill in the gaps between the missing motion between frames. Hence, the form of movies, the very nature of the medium, makes them about image and motion. This doesn't mean mindless chases, but it does mean that internal conflict don't matter didle, because you can't see it. It'd be like make a string quartert about a woman sitting at a window looking out at the sea -- you could do it, and it might be lovely, but you wouldn't be allowed to be upset if the audience didn't "get" it because there's no way for them to get it. The same with movies and books. Books are one form, Movies another. And there will be subtlety in this movie -- all the reviews so far suggest this -- but it's going to be a movie subtlety. It's going to be emotions suggested with looks, with a sense of history implied by the costume design, the passion of the characters revealed by what they do. Most importantly, it's going to be the parts of the books that move -- because that's what the medium does best, and to make a great movie, that must be respected. To enjoy this movie you must enter the theater wanting a great movie, not wishing you were at home reading the books. Books take place, alone in our heads, the relationship between you and the book. Movies are distinctly different. They are a series of images built to be shared by the audience together -- and for that reason, the work will be more surface and blunt -- but no less emotional, compelling, magical and sweeping.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:21 a.m. CST


    by LordDark

    Elf_killer, grow the fuck up. How old are you? Like 8? Same goes for all you lame ass naysayers who call doom upon this movie. What the hell is your problem? This movie is not in competion with your "precious" favorites so shut up and go away. Butthead.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:48 a.m. CST


    by Jazzboy

    Frodo Lives - does Arwen join the fellowship and go South with the ring? I hope not.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:49 a.m. CST

    And another thing

    by SpacePervert

    Come out of the closet elfkiller, you doth protest too much. You and all the other Lucas catamites (look it up) litter your posts with homophobia. Why are you so obsessed with gays? Could it be you find the idea strangely fascinating? Me and my psychology degree think you are in denial. Alternatively you are an ignorant bigoted fuck. You choose.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:56 a.m. CST

    re: Darth Keith

    by General Idea

    in response to "Does anyone really know a bunch of 20 to 30 year-old women interested in King's English and Mummy-like fight scenes?" I know plenty of them, yes. Where do you think all those "knight in shining armor on horseback coming to rescue me, etc, etc" sayings come from? Most fantasy books have got plenty of romance in them anyway, if that's all you think women are interested in. But let's use your asinine logic for a second. Look at Titanic. I don't know a lot of men who'd be busting down the door to watch a 3 hour love story around a boat sinking. So tell me, how did that movie do at the box office, eh? It made most of it's money around screaming 14 year-olds watching it 8 times just for Leo. As far as LOTR is concerned, I sir, AM that screaming 14 year-old.

  • Having said that, elf killer, you're not related to a guy who called himself "Mercier"? He used to have the same freaky type of kindergarten logic. Have you ever seen a Peter Jackson movie? And who the hell is Raimy? Really, he can't be such a great director if you can't even spell his name. And Frodo is Ghey? Who the hell is Ghey? I agree with LordDark, you must be 8 years old. No wonder you don't like LotR, it's most likely too complex for you. Where in the world are the _good_ trolls? We only get trash like that here.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, noon CST

    Re: Arwen

    by MPG

    I can tell you without having seen the film that Arwen does not join the Fellowship.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:03 p.m. CST


    by Jazzboy

    Thanks. I feel better now.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:04 p.m. CST

    last thing

    by SpacePervert

    Any Brits who haven't heard and can't afford the Radio play - Radio 4 are rebroadcasting in the new year. Apparently PJ got the cast listening to it if they hadn't read the books.(source:Reuters on Yahoo)

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:20 p.m. CST

    Screw the Balrog....

    by Purple Toupee

    I want to see Mr. Noble as Denethor! I can't wait till 2003!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:30 p.m. CST

    elf killer, it's you who doesn't get it...

    by MPG you think people say that PJ is a good director, just because he got to direct LotR? Uh... then ask Tolkien fans what they think about Bakshi, or take a guess how many Tolkien fans have "Fritz the Cat" in their DVD collection. Nope, directing LotR is not an instant redemption for being a shoddy director. But hey, how many great movies did the Wachowski brothers make before they made the Matrix? Now... come on... anyone? They actually wrote the damn screenplay to one of the most forgettable Stallone movies ever ("Assassins"). According to elf killer's warped logic, Matrix should have been a flop.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:34 p.m. CST

    LOTR Special on at 7:30 (Central)

    by Klam Bake

    Check your local listings people! Don't get suckered into watching That 70s Show.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:35 p.m. CST

    Hey GunsBlazing

    by rsrobin

    Sure they could squeeze in 17 years in the Shire, Crickhollow, Bombadil, and the Barrow Wights but it would slow the pace of the film down to a crawl. And just trying to cram everything into the movie just because it was in the books would lead to a pacing mess, ala Harry Potter. Tommy B. is an acquired taste, even for fans of the books. He could easily replace Jar Jar Binks as the poster child for bad comic relief. And he does almost nothing to move the plot along other than give the hobbits their swords. Tolkien spent too much time meandering in the first part of FOTR and PJ has to pick the pace up if he's going to hold the audience. That's just the way it is. What works in books doesn't necessarily work in movies.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Fly you fools...

    by DEET

    DrCool, I'm surprised you are allowed a keyboard, I would have thought the nurses in your institution consider it a choking hazard. What is your obsession with the grosses, if you're an accountant go check out the economist website, but I doubt you can count to three without banging your head against the wall. All that matters is whether the film is good. If it is, we can all hope it makes money so we get more of the same. If it doesn't, that doesn't stop it being a good film. Ever heard of BladeRunner, or are you only allowed to watch the shopping channels in case you get overexcited?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:43 p.m. CST

    D o N o t F e e d T h e T r o l l s

    by RedCapitalist

    I believe that J.R.R. Tolkien's is absolutely the best work of Fantasy Fiction ever written. ----------- Ever since my mother first read the book aloud(different voices and all!) to me and my siblings almost seven years ago, I have dreamed of the day that The Lord of the Rings would make it to the big screen. Then the glorious day came... ---------- On September 22, 1999 I found out that The Lord of the Rings was IN PRODUCTION! ---------- So, I have been waiting for this movie for over two years, and am assured that it will be completely fulfilling to myself, as well as others who are not as fanatical about the whole project as I am. ---------- There will be those who absolutely hate the movie. In fact, I predict that LOTR may get some really bad reviews, as well as the fact that it may win VERY FEW Oscars, AND it might not make anywhere near the amount of money that some hope for. But you know what? None of those things are an accurate indication of whether or not a movie IS good. You know it, and I know it. --------- So, when you hear people say, "LOTR sucks because PJ isn't Oscar material", or "LOTR sucks because it will make NO money and won't break HP's record opening", or "LOTR sucks because I'm a jackass", PLEASE ignore them. They are fools, yet pitiable.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:57 p.m. CST

    GunsBlazing - Take a breath!

    by Damitol

    It's a movie - a movie - a three hour movie. A book - compared to it's film adaptation has several advantages. First, a writer can take several pages to describe a tiny detail whereas a film maker is working within a limited amount of time. To include every detail of FOTR would mean the moviegoer spending at least 4 days straight in the theater. Second, a book is relativly cheap to produce and distribute, and can be a big hit if purchased by a tiny number of people compared to the seats that need to be filled to cover the cost of a film. This film - has $300,000,000 of other people's money hanging on it's success. Of course it is going to emphasize action since that is what draws non-geek people in - but it is also apparent that Jackson has done a great job of including many less important parts of the story in order to please the LOTR fans as well. Finally - your imagination is one million time more powerful than the current top of the line CGI software. Each paragraph of a well written book allows your mind to create worlds that would have increased the budget of the film version exponentially to even begin to resemble. No one will ever faithfully reproduce a good book word for word on the screen, no matter how sincere their intention was to do so in the first place. A bit of the book that Jackson read and then forgot about may be highlighted, underlined and include notes in the margin of your volume. The visa-versa of that statement is probably true as well. Go to the theater on December 19th with the intention of enjoying one man's vision of one of the world's most loved books. Go knowing that no - this will not be GunsBlazing interpretation, or mine nor anyone else's who is familiar with the source material. Go knowing that this is not *the* Lord of the Rings - it is an adaptation, a re-telling of the story, a movie *based* on the one true Lord of the Rings - the one sitting on your bookshelf at home. If you do that, everything I've read points to you having a wonderful three hours of fun and adventure. If you go expecting anything more - you are only cheating yourself. It's a movie - nothing more, nothing less.

  • And elf_killer is numero uno on the suckass opinion chart at this here Talk Back. NOT because he says Jackson is a shitty (oops, I mean chitty) director in light of his past works, but exactly why should that have any bearing on the present? I don't care whether all his previous movies sucked the proverbial donkey cock if LOTR is a masterpiece. All the reviews I've seen point to an awesome film, so I'm not sure why a few B-movies from Jackson changes that... (and those movies were a blast, btw). Holy shit, those gay LOTR fans are insane, they actually think PJ has made a good film! Damn them to hell I say! Don't they know this guy sucks? Geez, some people, but be prepared guys cuz they'll be coming out of the friggin woodwork closer to release day - usually pissed off Luca$ freakboys feeling the heat after the Ep1 turd. It must suck to put all your eggs in one basket like that...

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:11 p.m. CST

    Webmaster at Fox just fixed my local showtimes

    by Klam Bake

    Okay, now it says QFTR is on at 7:00 and Family Guy is on at 7:30. Someone must have F-d up.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Attack of the Bigots.....

    by Praetor

    It amazes me how homophobic and xenophobic these LOTR haters are. DR.COOL seems incapable of expressing himself without some derogatory 'homo' remark, even mocking Sir Ian McKellan, for preferring to 'play with the hobbits' instead of mugging glassy eyed into a blue screen with the other Star Wars zombies. Then we have that asshole Mercier who takes every opportunity to express his anti-English sentiments. Previously I would have liked to persuade these people, now I hope that they genuinely do despise LOTR- I feel much more comfortable knowing that I have nothing in common with these bigots. My suggestion to the trolls is to find a wall and run at it hard with your head down; your small contribution to making the world a better place.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:21 p.m. CST

    Wimmens and FoTR

    by Chocky

    I know a woman who&#39;s excited about seeing these movies. ;^) She happened to be at Barnes & Noble, buying a Boromir bookmark when she noticed the gal in front of her was purchasing an Aragorn bookmark. And an old friend from high school surprised me by saying that she had just bought one of those Burger King goblets. My mother and sister-in-law will be forced to go see the movies too, so I&#39;m counting at least 5 women who will see this. <><><><><> To you dumb*sses who think FoTR will flop, it&#39;s going to rake in the cash in the overseas market regardless of what it does domestically. I ain&#39;t worried about it.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:25 p.m. CST

    news from &#39;overseas&#39;

    by spYder0711

    hi there... just wanted to let you know that here in germany (as in many european countries,too), the premiere shows at midnight and the next four days are sold out in ALMOST EVERY SINGLE CINEMA... ...and germany has MANY cinemas ;) i know from my friends, relatives, co-students etc. that nearly everyone will/has already buy/bought his/her tickets. ah, the females: i am organizing a premiere event here in stuttgart for 800+ people: we got all the tickets for 2 rooms of a multiplex cinema, and nearly 40% are female *grin* can&#39;t wait...........

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Why no female appeal?

    by EvilNight

    The more I think about it the more I don&#39;t get it. Why would women not like this film? Look at the cast, it&#39;s almost entirely male. Between Viggo&#39;s rugged looks, Sean Bean&#39;s pretty face and Elijah&#39;s big doe eyes I&#39;d actually expect women to like a lot in the film. Maybe they won&#39;t dig the violence, but they should dig the suspense and action as much as any guy. They&#39;ll probably dig the romantic aspects of it between Arwen and Aragorn more than the guys will. Granted, it&#39;s not a "chick flick" or "date movie" like Sleepless in Seattle or Titanic, but that doesn&#39;t mean there&#39;s nothing for women to enjoy in the films. Heck, most women I know are more intellectual than most men I know, they&#39;ll probably dig the highbrow backstory and plot and all the little details...

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Fox special at 7:00 in Chicago

    by Chocky sez that Quest for the Ring will be airing at 7:00 tonight, not 7:30. <><><><><> That damn Bill Zwecker (entertainment guy) promised to show a preview on "Fox Thing In The Morning" on Tuesday - what did I find on my VCR but the old trailer that starts out with panning over a forest and river. And they only showed the first half! What a ripoff . . .

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:36 p.m. CST

    FrodoLives? No, FrodoRules!

    by krosshair

    If you are still around I have a few questions. Does the movie end with a preview for the next installment? I heard the Legolas chain walk was bad CGI, did you get this impression? I read another review that didn&#39;t like the pacing in the beginning, how about you? You didn&#39;t mention the orcs pursuing the fellowship out of the mines, does this happen? Does the prologue have much battle footage? Do they show what Gollum looked like before his transformation? What is the circumstance behind Boromir holding the ring? Thanks.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:39 p.m. CST

    Hey Guns

    by EvilNight

    I almost hate to admit it, but the beginnign of FoTR is actually really devoid of action. It&#39;s like a quiet, peaceful afternoon walk compared to the rest of the books. Why do you think that most of those who never finish LoTR end up dropping it during the first of the six books? If you make it verbatim into a movie, the first 18 hours (ok 3 hours, but you get the point) are going to be very slow and rather dull... I&#39;d lose interest in it myself. Peter&#39;s making massively epic action films, not purist LoTR visions. Even the BBC Radio Dramas (13 hours worth, not 9, longer than the movies) and Bakshi animations cut the same things he did (Bombadil, massive editing of Elrond&#39;s Council, etc). Those books simply do not translate into other mediums without a lot of editing and cutting. Sure, it&#39;s posible to do a purist version, but you are then talking about a 36 hour miniseries that won&#39;t get much viewing outside the purist circles. I don&#39;t need a purist version of LoTR, I&#39;ll always have the books for that. I&#39;d much rather have some kickass action flicks.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:41 p.m. CST

    BBC Version

    by WinkinBlinkinNod

    A lot of you are hot and heavy about the changes made nearer the beginning of this film. So tell me this. Why did the BBC version, that had the full support of the Tolkien Family (most notably Christopher Tolkien after his father&#39;s recent death) leave out Bombadil and cut most of the exposition scenes as the Hobbits travelled from Hobbiton to Bree?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:41 p.m. CST

    More Answers

    by FrodoLives

    And on again. For the person requesting "no more spoilers in the TB", I&#39;d recommend not reading. I&#39;m kinda figuring that anyone reading this is in for spoilers. So....As for all the comments on the cuts for the journey to Rivendell, they really had to. With all the cuts that they made, all the songs that they eliminated, all the story exposition that they took out, it still takes an hour and 15 minutes to get to Rivendell. You can&#39;t make a movie without SERIOUSLY trimming down the story. I (personally) think that Jackson did an excellent job and remained exceptionally true to the books. Did the story change in parts? Yes. It had to in order to accomodate the cut bits. It&#39;s still VERY true to the original. I guess the best way to explain it is that if you&#39;ve read the books, you should be happy with the movie. If you read the books for the first time after seeing the movie, you won&#39;t be upset with any changes. There will be a lot more development in the books. That&#39;s a given. And a good thing. More Questions....Does Arwen join the Fellowship? No. Most certainly not. The last you see of her is at Rivendell. The only gift that I saw in Lothlorien was the vial. I might be wrong in my memory, however....I guess I&#39;ll just HAVE to go see it again ;-) The final Enya song "May it Be" starts up as the credits roll. The ending to the movie leaves you speechless.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Doctor Cool

    by General Idea

    Very witty response. Did you ignore the rest of my point though? The fact that I can&#39;t imagine most regular guys wanting to go watch Titanic, yet it made wads of money. How do you explain that? Do chicks like Star Wars? Do you know any women who like spaceship fights and lightsabers? Does that make them fat too? Then how the hell did that make any money? I can&#39;t even believe I&#39;m responding to this...

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:45 p.m. CST


    by LordDark

    Just ignore worms like DRfool and Elf_killer. They have nothing important to contribute to this forum. These low-lifes get off on pissing us all off with stupid nonsense slam talk. The reviews are coming in, these movies are going to be fantastic. End of story. And for the fools who think PJ is a lame ass director, you need to read up and learn a few things. First off his project Heavenly Creatures was up for Oscar. Plus he doesn&#39;t come from the tired, old school clueless geezers of Hollywood. He&#39;s fresh. Look at Lucas? He makes total crap now. He doesn&#39;t have a clue. ILM is shit. Talk about over used CGI. And the trailers for EP2 look like some big budget video game. Just look at what they did with the Mummy Returns. It looked like a cheap PSX FMV. I&#39;m not saying I didn&#39;t enjoy the first Star Wars trilogy because I did. It was original for its time. But his movies ever after have stunk up the box office. And Elf_ass, no one really even knew much about Lucas till he made Star Wars. Everyone has to start someonewhere. Where do people like you come from? Nuff said. Go back to your pit.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:52 p.m. CST

    Well made movies can exceed your imagination

    by Hawq

    You have to be pretty damn arrogant to think your own imagination is more vivid than the combined imaginations of some of the most creative and competent artists, actors and filmmakers in the world! If this was a crappy production, it would be true, but we&#39;re talking about what is probably the most advanced artistic production in history of film. It&#39;s not YOUR imagination anyway... it&#39;s JRR Tolkien&#39;s! Stop being so damn pompous! What you are doing as a reader is VISUALIZING his creative ideas and expressive words. Nobody is stopping you from imagining further about the ideas that are presented (like imagining what Moria was like in its glory days). Since I&#39;m ranting about this topic, I&#39;d also like to say that the people who believe it&#39;s better to leave more to your imagination in horror movies are wrong (IMHO)- at least in the case of really good horror productions. It is an OLD idea that was true when films couldn&#39;t match the imaginings of the filmmakers. It is now possible, with enough artistic talent behind a film, to show anything you want, or leave out anything you want to remain mysterious. Fellowship of the Rings will be a PRIME example. Would the movie Alien have been half as good if they left the alien creature up to your imagination, and didn&#39;t show things like blood splattering on people&#39;s faces? NO. Believe me, your imagination will still run wild when you see a well made movie that shows you the gore. People who proliferate the idea of "leaving more to the imagination" are merely restating what has been fed to them without thinking about it in a modern context. The world changes. Deal with it.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Women & FOTR... c&#39;mon, guys...

    by diaphinia

    Give us some credit. It&#39;s not as though we need to see cute boys (or girls, depending on your preferences) to make us like a movie that has *gasp!* swordplay and *faint!* action! Lots of you males certainly like films that DON&#39;T, and not just because of female eye candy. (Those of you dependent on pretties to enjoy a movie, well, that&#39;s why Hollywood exists, I guess...) I&#39;m TOTALLY looking forward to crashing swords and severed orc heads. If the story/filmmaking are great, or even good fun, a lot of us women are there for the "boy" films. Believe it or not, some of us ENJOYED Die Hard and the Terminator flicks. I know that many of my female friends and I are frothing at the mouth to see FOTR. As soon as we CAN, we&#39;re going to get opening night tickets. I went to the NYC Sept. 9 LOTR presentation, dragging my husband. I&#39;m the one who was bouncing up & down, utterly crazed, by the end, I&#39;m the one who was totally blown away by the Cave Troll sequence (ok, hubby was, too...who wouldn&#39;t be?!). I&#39;m the one who was totally geeking about the WETA FX. I&#39;m the one who talked about it incessantly and is looking forward to it more than anything else in the near future, besides, perhaps, getting a dog. And this was BEFORE I read the books (I know, I know...) BECAUSE Peter Jackson is a. ma. zing. Seen Heavenly Creatures, anyone? So... please, give us a LITTLE credit and don&#39;t assume just because we don&#39;t have your dangly nutsacks we&#39;d prefer to watch yet another crappy JLo film or a Freddy Prinze Jr. romance or a poorly-executed period movie than a film that goes to Middle Earth and gets down with orcs, ents, and elves. oooh... and while I&#39;m at it... just putting in another vote for not knowing too much about the film before going in. I read up TONS on HP, and I was expecting a lot more than was deilvered. Frankly, I seriously doubt that PJ gutted the charm from this tale the way Chris Columbus did. And I&#39;m not at all concerned about missing some of the beginning sequences. I LOVED Bombadil, LOVED him in the book, but I think in terms of a FILM that sequence is one that could be cut. I&#39;d prefer to get the Director&#39;s Cut DVD with an operatically long, complete version of the film, but the hordes prolly wouldn&#39;t take it in the theatres (***Flashbacks to Ken Branagh&#39;s Hamlet... Great, but not for everyone). Ugh... must... stop... writing... Carpal... tunnel....acting... up --Di.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:01 p.m. CST

    More Answers (Sorry Krosshair)

    by FrodoLives

    Missed a bunch last time. Here you go: Does the movie end with a preview for the next installment? I heard rumors about this, but the advance screening that I saw did not. ------------ I heard the Legolas chain walk was bad CGI, did you get this impression? I did not see ANY bad CGI in the movie. The Legolas chain walk (I&#39;m assuming you&#39;re talking about where Legolas dodges the chain that the Cave Troll is whipping at him and leaps onto the Cave Troll&#39;s shoulder) is awesome. ---------- I read another review that didn&#39;t like the pacing in the beginning, how about you? I kinda like the pacing of the beginning. It introduced you to the story, the characters, the world. It&#39;s nothing compared to the last half of the movie, but you kinda expect that. Pacing-wise, it&#39;s a lot like the book. ---------- You didn&#39;t mention the orcs pursuing the fellowship out of the mines, does this happen? I read this in a review as well and it puzzled me. Unless I missed something huge, the orcs don&#39;t pursue the Fellowship out of Moria. It&#39;s daylight when they exit and Aragorn makes a point of saying that they need to make Lothlorien before nightfall. Maybe I was just all teary-eyed from the "death" of Gandalf. ---------------- Does the prologue have much battle footage? Yes. Plenty. Not like in the rest of the movie, but insanely cool nonetheless. ---------------- Do they show what Gollum looked like before his transformation? No. All you see is a reasonably normal looking hand grabbing the Ring from the riverbed. But the glimpses you get of Gollum later on will just have you drooling. Those eyes....CGI eyes with emotion. They honestly had the light of intelligence behind them. I cannot wait for TTT!!! ----------- What is the circumstance behind Boromir holding the ring? As they are heading up Caradhras, Frodo slips in the snow and falls back into Aragorn. The Ring (necklace and all) comes off and falls into the snow. You get the impression that the Ring was trying to get away. Boromir picks up the Ring at this point. I should probably mention that the Ring is most definitely the 10th member of the Fellowship. It is a very real character in the movie. Even to the extent that some lucky soul is listed in the credits as the "Voice of the Ring"

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:04 p.m. CST

    Tsk Tsk

    by LordDark

    DRfool, you really don&#39;t have a clue. But I guess you&#39;ll find out soon enough. There&#39;s no point even getting into it further with you. Even when you find out how good these movies are I&#39;m sure you&#39;ll say otherwise, such as a child would do. No point in arguing with someone with the mentality of an 8 year old(that&#39;s you and all the other negative naysayers btw).

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:06 p.m. CST


    by MikeSal222

    Just watch "Beloved" if you want an example of a bad movie that suffered from being overly faithful to the source material. Oprah Winfrey wanted to stay true to Toni Morrison&#39;s fabulous novel, and the movie ended up being a disaster. Peter Jackson knows what he&#39;s doing. Besides, an unabridged version of LOTR would be 50 hours long, and that&#39;s not going to happen. Enjoy what&#39;s in the movies, and don&#39;t worry about what was taken out. It was probably taken out for good reason.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Frodo me lad...

    by EvilNight

    "They honestly had the light of intelligence behind them." I wonder who wrote that renderer subroutine... probably the same genius who wrote the "cute code" for the little girl in Monsters, Inc. ;) Anyway, Frodo, since you like answering questions, lemme ask you one I asked about this flick in another talkback. The LoTR books create a certain feel in the reader... does the film deliver the same sort of feelings to you that the book did? Example: Dune the book, compared to Dune the Movie and Dune the Miniseries. The book creates a feeling of dune. The Movie, while being vastly different from the books, still manages to capture the feel I got from the books flawlessly, whereas the miniseries left me totally void of it, even though it was far more technically correct and in keeping with the books. So, what&#39;s your take on FoTR&#39;s karma vs the books? Also, you&#39;ve seen the damn thing, comment on this foolish women debate for us. Were there women at the screening (of course there were) and did they geek out? (of course they did).

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:26 p.m. CST

    BURGER KING ??????

    by STRIDER355


  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:28 p.m. CST

    EvilKnight: Answers

    by FrodoLives

    In regards to EvilKnight&#39;s question on the "feel" of the movie compared to the books: I thought it was almost dead on. You run the gammut of emotions on this one. Merry and Pippin will have you laughing out loud (yes, even the women in the audience were laughing). You feel the desperation of the situation in Middle Earth....the pain of Frodo&#39;s decision to take the Ring to Mt. Doom. The utter sense of loss when Gandalf falls....everything brings out the emotions of the book. If anything they&#39;re stronger in the movie....

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:29 p.m. CST


    by WinkinBlinkinNod

    I&#39;m not going to dis the name, there&#39;s no point. I take it your a huge SW fan and that&#39;s great. But coming from another SW fan who was "fortunate" to see the originals in the theatre I was SO LET DOWN by TPM that GL is going to have to earn my trust back by having some glowing reviews about AOTC. I will not see AOTC on opening night. GL can (and I do hope) revive the SW universe for us fans again but if he FUCKS us over again w/ some tripe shit he will never make another blockbuster again because his audience will disappear. Who really cares anyways... LOTR will either be good on it&#39;s own merits without us "fanboys" helping it along same as ANH was good. It&#39;s the general population that makes a blockbuster not us web-heads who think we&#39;re an unstoppable legion who can elevate a movie into superstardom. I did ask a genuine question earlier. If everyone is badmouthing P.J. for making cuts of so-called "story necessary character&#39;s and scenes", then why did the BBC version, that was fully supported by the Tolkien Family, allow those same cuts to be made?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:31 p.m. CST


    by jdegraf

    the amount of idiots who are threatened by a simple little movie --- well you should be, cause your little star wars universe is for shit

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:32 p.m. CST

    Burger King Ads.

    by LordDark

    Burger King ads have nothing to do with Peter Jackson. It&#39;s all about marketing to increase the hype and a way for Burger King and New Line&#39;s investors to make more cash. Peter Jackson wouldn&#39;t have had a say in this I&#39;m sure. It would be pretty ignorant to boycott the movies because of this. You should be able to look past it and enjoy. Unless you are just another naysayer.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:36 p.m. CST

    by jdegraf

    Now reviews are coming in, Rolling Stone says best movie of the year, a film that has lived up to the hype, so it seems, and the Anti-LOTR crowd is fully astounded by this. Shocked and appalled that the George Lucas era is over, and so soon at that. ---- OH, I just need 7 more figures from Burger King to complete my collection. All unopened figures mind you.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:41 p.m. CST

    Rolling Stone Top Ten

    by CuttingRoomFloor

    8 of the 10 have not been released yet! ____Rolling Stone Top Ten____: Magazine film reviewers get to see screenings earlier than the rest of the press, now Peter Travers - the film critic for the US version of Rolling Stone magazine has put out the first ten best movies of the year list with some surprising inclusions and odd exceptions. From best to worst they are: "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring", "Ali", "The Royal Tenenbaums", "Shrek", "Vanilla Sky", "Moulin Rouge", "Black Hawk Down", "A Beautiful Mind", "A.I.: Artifical Intelligence", and "Ocean&#39;s Eleven".

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Travers&#39; Opinion Is Inconsequential

    by RedCapitalist

    Travers&#39; list means NOTHING, people! I mean, I love LOTR....I want it to be the best ever, but TRAVERS PUT MOULIN ROUGE in his TOP TEN!!! What the crap is that?!?! (Monsters, Inc. should&#39;ve been on his list....darn communist.)

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:55 p.m. CST

    Top 10

    by MikeSal222

    He didn&#39;t include "Memento", I see. Even though it came out all the way back in Jan.-Feb. 2001, it&#39;s still the best movie of 2001 (so far).

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Burger King and trolls

    by MPG

    Ooooh... so a movie magically gets worse if there are Burger King tie-ins? Well, that is interesting. Strider377, care to explain how that is possible, or are you just another troll? While you&#39;re at it, you can also explain why Jackson is to blame for that. Get a clue: Peter Jackson doesn&#39;t own the rights for LotR. Duh. In fact, while the BK ads suck like hell (Behold... hold... held... hold... argh! How far can you stretch a bad joke??), the goblets are actually the highest-quality stuff that I have ever seen as fast food movie tie-in (if you don&#39;t like the light-up thing, you can remove it without any trace), and these "action figures" are not too bad either (of course, it bugs some people that this movie is supposed to appeal to kids as well who like stuff like that). -------------------------------- But talking about trolls, I&#39;d like to repeat: Why do we get trash like DRDROOL here?? Aren&#39;t there any decent trolls anymore??

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Travers opinion isn&#39;t really inconsequential...

    by MPG;s just what it is, his _own_ opinion. The reason why it&#39;s not totally inconsequential is that it&#39;s rather widely published, that&#39;s the important point.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Freeserve ( Brit ISP ) Film Poll

    by Praetor

    Question: what film are you most anticipating? Harry Potter 22% LOTR 42% SW: AOTC 25% None of the Above 11% The word is out.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Travers has a short memory.

    by Kizeesh

    odd that his top ten list all came out in the lst few months, or come out in December. hmmm Short memory syndrome methinks. There&#39;s no way that the Royal Tenembaums could be better than Brotherhood of the Wolf, or Ginger Snaps, or Enemy at the Gates. I can&#39;t say Memento as it came out last december in the UK

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Lucas has to earn it now...

    by EvilNight

    Thanks for the responses Frodo. As for Lucas... TPM was an unforgivable let down... on a 10 scale it&#39;s a flat 5, and it has no excuse whatsoever to be that shoddy. I&#39;ll withold my condemnations of Lucas until after I see Ep2. His past works have earned him that much respect from me at least. If Ep2 is as much of a dull flick as Ep1 (StarWars 90210 as it seems now), I&#39;ll be writing Lucas off as a has been who has lost his vision, and watching Ep3 after I pirate it off the net, rather than wasting money on it. Between Frodo&#39;s review here and the reports from the filming in NZ (esp. Quickbeam&#39;s and Harrys) I already know I won&#39;t be getting that sort of disappointment from FoTR. I&#39;ve already bought the tickets online... and not surprisingly, they are already selling out the first shows a month ahead of the film. Star Wars never did that, so that&#39;s just one first for LoTR, and I&#39;m sure many more will follow. Anybody know offhand what movie currently holds the record for most academy awards, and how many it was? For some reason the number thirteen comes to mind but I&#39;ve forgotten...

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:17 p.m. CST


    by kvonnah

    The Denver public Library has been holding a weekly, ten-installment reading of FOTR. It started in October and will finish the week before the opening of the film. One of the arguments I am seeing from the trolls on this talk back (p.s. you know what they say about homophobes! Don

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Keep reaching for that rainbow Dr. Cool

    by Praetor

    I draw a distinction between political correctness and offensiveness, ie crapping over people whils&#39;t not being witty, informed or having a coherent argument. Get off line and get back to handing out towels you muppet.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Answered my own question.

    by EvilNight

    Of course we will see all three, this is why competition is good for the industry! Here&#39;s the oscar list: Interesting that Ben-Hur and Titanic are tied at the top with 11 each. Hmmm, Ben-Hur is out on dvd now as well... click click click click...

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:26 p.m. CST


    by quiscustodiet

    So, here goes a general trolling question, not just geared at LOTR or Star Wars: If TBers on this site can sit back and swear up and down that they are fans of independent non-Hollywood flicks, then why do all the TBs based on Hollywood flicks fill up so fast? The discussion on Altman&#39;s latest lasted about 20 entries. What about the the AICNAsia or AICNLatin? They don&#39;t get anyone out talking about what&#39;s happening the latest Spanish language movie. So, are most TBers hypocrites? Do they talk a good game but fail to actually back up their pretentious words by seeing indie or foreign flicks?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:32 p.m. CST


    by EvilNight

    Trolls just like to sit back and be clever, and write cute little messages to get other people a bit upset by attacking something the other person feels strongly for. All internet boards have trolls. AICN has far more than it&#39;s share because unlike most boards, AICN does not have a moderation system. (No, board admins do not count as a moderation "system") For every poster there are 1000 lurkers reading this message. 500 of them would me more than happy to apply proactive moderation while reading the thread. If Harry ever gets around to implementing a slashcode-style moderation system, the troll posts will be nothing but a happy memory like they are now on Slashdot. Heck, these forums might turn into a place for serious film discussion! Hah, who am I kidding. ;)

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Trust Jackson - Film Made out of LOVE not make for MONEY

    by Hate_Speech

    Peter Jackson made this film from his heart. He&#39;s not your typical Spielberg type who&#39;s motivated by money. You will NOT be dissapointed. And Star Warts is for little tiny baby kiddies..

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Under the bridge.

    by Kizeesh

    leave the trolls in Moria where they belong. anyway, I just want to say how much I can&#39;t wait to see the movies and how muh I hate the fact that I&#39;m going to be as busy as a motherfucker right up until the middle of December. Well ho-hum I guess FOTR can be my little early xmas present. mmmm Arwen covered in whipped cream would be nicer, but there ain&#39;t much chance of that.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Are Star Wars fans ALL stupid?

    by Mahlia

    I hope not. But almost every Star Wars fanatic I see on LOTR threads are annoying, stupid, ignorant, and mind-numbingly immature.... i KNOW most Star Wars fans aren&#39;t like this. They can be creative, smart, mature and kind- like any group or any fanbase.... I hope they aren&#39;t, like ElfKiller, or Darth Kieth to name a few....but don&#39;t you SW fanatics see that you&#39;re only making Star Wars look bad to the rest of us? You do more damage to to Star Wars reputation than Jar Jar Binks. Grow up, and grow a few brain cells- for your sake and everyone who has to listen to you.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:52 p.m. CST

    To Tender: Some sense

    by Mahlia

    Hey. It&#39;s only been a couple days, and so far there are only 3 reviews. Wait a little while and you&#39;ll get your nonfanboy reviews. It only makes sense that Harry would post the fanboy reviews first. Fanboys are flocking to see it FIRST. And besides... AICN is just enthusiastic. Can you blame them? You seem eager to unmask some sort of conspiracy. To make yourself look smart...? What&#39;s up with that?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:03 p.m. CST

    Ripoffs and what-not

    by Kerrak

    Ok, I think we need to get beyond these "Tolkien/Lucas ripped off so-and-so" comments. Of course they did. How could they not? There aren&#39;t that many original ideas when it comes to story. To think that anyone today could develop a story involving action, suspense, romance, good, evil, that hasn&#39;t been dealt with before in some way is unbelievably arrogant. These are ideas that have been with humanity as long as humanity has been around. Emotions such as hate, love, revenge, and the characters that express them form the core of all storytelling, now and in the future. So yes, Tolkien ripped off mythology. Of course! Myths are the oldest representations we have of these themes. At least he was forced to go to the "original" (oldest) stories we have to develop a "modern" take of it, as opposed to those who merely borrowed from their contemporaries (Lucas). But that&#39;s the only difference, so get over it. And DRCool, why do you come to these talkbacks? What&#39;s your point? This is a forum for people who share common interests to discuss them. All you&#39;re doing is providing an annoying distraction. There are plenty of Star Wars discussion groups. If you have something against the LOTR or its fans, noone is forcing you to be there. Go amongst your own! Let us enjoy what we enjoy, and you enjoy what you enjoy, whatever that may be.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Still Waiting

    by Dienekes

    It&#39;s not worth debating with Trolls over any issues, they simply cannot back-up their statements. DRfool, you really don&#39;t have a clue.<< Neither do you. Have you seen the movie? Do you know it

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:21 p.m. CST

    what&#39;s bad

    by jdegraf

    what&#39;s bad is that Lucas not only had to rip off LOTR once, with the Star Wars trilogy, but again with Willow, and now that he has ripped off that EP1 came out, nothing to rip off, thus a bad movie was made. EP2 will be no better, unless you are 10 or something.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:30 p.m. CST

    dr kool

    by jdegraf

    dr kool can&#39;t even name 1 norse myth that coincides, even remotely, to FOTR -- Star Wars fans, gotta love &#39;em!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:30 p.m. CST

    No appeal for women? WHAT?!?

    by Lovesong

    *drooling* MUST.... have.... ELVES! Come ON! You guys drool over Arwen and Galadriel... so do you really think there&#39;s not one male character in this tale that might interest a woman? Well, I&#39;M a woman who&#39;s been waiting 23 years to see this onscreen, and believe me when I tell you - it will have PLENTY of "sex" and "romance" in it, whether it&#39;s onscreen or not. I&#39;ve been entertaining distinctly unladylike fantasies concerning Legolas (and assorted other elves) for more than half my life. Elrond sure sounds tasty enough from what you said about him, FrodoLives, but please... tell me more about my Legolas! Please tell me they didn&#39;t make a midget out of him! Male elves are supposed to be tall.... goregeous... mysterious... powerful - in a word, SEXY (GAWD, I hate to hear that Glorfindel is missing from this movie!). The pics I&#39;ve seen of Orlando in costume look very encouraging. Please, I want every detail!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Of course!

    by LordDark

    As everyone knows, Tolkien was linguists professor and a lover of old Norse language and mythology. Of course he borrowed from the Epic Sagas he loved so much. This is no secret. He could even recite the classic Beowulf by heart. He still wrote his OWN fantasy epic. But what the hell is your point DRFOOL? It&#39;s seems to me you are just pulling whatever you can out of your ass to diss Tolkien and these movies without really making any concrete points. You&#39;re just here to piss people off and get some cheap thrills. You are nothing short of the worst kind of Troll one can find on talk back forums, so please take a hike. You&#39;re not wanted here. And don&#39;t give me none of that "free speech" crap. It doesn&#39;t jive here.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:38 p.m. CST

    The Sack

    by Kharan

    Now that you mention it, I was wondering what the basket-like thingy in the shot of the Balrog&#39;s foot coming down was.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:39 p.m. CST

    The Great Thing About Trolls ...

    by CuttingRoomFloor

    is that they excel in coming up is they keep coming up with NEW reasons to dis the object of their puny-minded wrath. For example: Your argument about FoTR being a "chitty" movie getting shot down, move on to the BK promotional crap. People starting to annoy you with facts supporting how FoTR will not make New Line go into the financial dumper, well, switch to how Tolkien drew upon Northern European mythology. Widespread positive reviews getting you down, then start picking apart FoTR&#39;s potential demographic. When all else fails, bring out the ever ready homophobic "You are all GAY TWATS" assault. _________ There it is in a nutshell, the FoTR Troll Handbook. Provided free as a courtesy to AICN TB.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:41 p.m. CST

    Damn, reading this TB is such hard work

    by wilko185

    ...Spoilers <scroll past! can&#39;t look!>....trolling <boring, scroll past>.... flame, more spoilers<scroll> Gah! ____ Anyway, there&#39;s another review at (sorry if it&#39;s been mentioned already). Relatively spoiler-free and very positive. I&#39;d actually be interested in seeing a negative review, there must be *something* not to like about this movie??. Perhaps not :). Have there been any reviews from people who haven&#39;t read the book? What do they think, can they follow the story and get pulled in?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Who&#39;s the fool?

    by Dienekes

    Seems like you are forgetting how I whipped you in our last debate DrCool. Your avoidance of my last question is symptomatic of your entire approach to debates. Can&#39;t answer the question? Well simply ignore it.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:53 p.m. CST


    by Numenor

    The problem with Bombadil isn&#39;t that he&#39;s not an interesting character, it&#39;s that he&#39;s too interesting. If you took Bombadil&#39;s part in the book and stuck it into a movie, exactly the way it is, people who have not read the books would leave that theater saying, "Great movie, but what was up with that guy towards the beginning that laughed, sung, seemed very important, but then had nothing to do with the rest of the story?" The fact is - every scene in a movie is precious time. There was pressure on Jackson to make this appeal to a mass audience - he made the films for everyone, not just LOTR faithfuls. It&#39;s arrogant to think he should have done otherwise. Therefore, every scene in his movie, in any movie, HAS TO FURTHER THE PLOT. The simple fact is that Bombadil is far too enigmatic and confusing to be included in a film. He simply does not further the plot in any useful way. The fact that PJ changed parts of this movie is a small concern - the larger concern is whether or not he got the spirit of Middle Earth correct, not whether Tom Bombadil or some hobbit song was included in the movie. All glimpse so far tell me he nailed it, dead on.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:59 p.m. CST

    puzzled by changes to ending

    by tanyatheavenger

    Don&#39;t get me wrong, this looks amazing, BUT: I am confused about Peter Jackson&#39;s decision to change the ending of Fellowship. The book&#39;s ending has tension enough -- after his encounter with Boromir, Frodo&#39;s lost, nobody knows where he&#39;s gone, and the whole Fellowship is searching for him desperately when the orcs descend. Boromir feels terribly guilty and tells Aragorn what he&#39;s done. Then he trades his life to save Merry and Pippin. In this ending, why does Aragorn find and talk to Frodo and agree that Frodo must go off alone? Part of Aragorn&#39;s ambivalence at the beginning of The Two Towers stems from his inability to decide between rescuing Merry and Pippin or trying to find Frodo and Sam... this adds to the darkness that surrounds the beginning of the next book (Boromir&#39;s burial, etc.). Someone, help me understand why this is a better ending.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:01 p.m. CST

    re: ebonic plague

    by Purple Toupee

    That&#39;s one of the funniest Star Wars fanboy bashings that I have ever read. You made me laugh, and I thank you! :)

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:02 p.m. CST

    Your imagination is not as good as WETA&#39;s.

    by Hawq

    Where&#39;s the talkbacker who said his/her own imagination is better than a movie could ever be? This same statement has been made in MANY talkbacks, and it is utter bullshit. It&#39;s a misconception that is commonly thrown into converstions by self-important people who try way too hard to appear cultured; you know, the ones who so proudly do NOT own a television. My earlier post had no counter arguments, so it must either be undeniable or everyone just wanted to ignore it. Feel free to argue, I have many examples to back this up: <<You have to be pretty damn arrogant to think your own imagination is more vivid than the combined imaginations of some of the most creative and competent artists, actors and filmmakers in the world! If this was a crappy production, it would be true, but we&#39;re talking about what is probably the most advanced artistic production in history of film. It&#39;s not YOUR imagination anyway... it&#39;s JRR Tolkien&#39;s! Stop being so damn pompous! What you are doing as a reader is VISUALIZING his creative ideas and expressive words. Nobody is stopping you from imagining further about the ideas that are presented (like imagining what Moria was like in its glory days). Since I&#39;m ranting about this topic, I&#39;d also like to say that the people who believe it&#39;s better to leave more to your imagination in horror movies are wrong (IMHO)- at least in the case of really good horror productions. It is an OLD idea that was true when films couldn&#39;t match the imaginings of the filmmakers. It is now possible, with enough artistic talent behind a film, to show anything you want, or leave out anything you want to remain mysterious. Fellowship of the Rings will be a PRIME example. Would the movie Alien have been half as good if they left the alien creature up to your imagination, and didn&#39;t show things like blood splattering on people&#39;s faces? NO. Believe me, your imagination will still run wild when you see a well made movie that shows you the gore. People who proliferate the idea of "leaving more to the imagination" are merely restating what has been fed to them without thinking about it in a modern context. The world changes. Deal with it.>>

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:15 p.m. CST

    "Especially coming from the D&D people. Remember how us Star War

    by RMcCallum

    You mean SW fans and DnD fans aren&#39;t one and the same? Could of fooled me... and oh yeah, George has a very clear vision about the story of Star Wars that he won&#39;t allow to be swayed by the whims of the Internet, the media, critics or anyone. The Internet rumors this time around are possibly even more funny and off base than they were for the first film.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:28 p.m. CST

    Frodo.Lives, etc.


    First off, thanx Frodo.Lives for answering my questions. I&#39;m a little disappointed about the Prancing Pony being changed, but I&#39;m sure the changes are all fine. Second and most important- It&#39;s really amazing to me just how shitty everyone on this post can be to eachother. Someone thinks it&#39;s gonna suck, someone thinks it&#39;s gonna be the best movie ever, it will make money, it won&#39;t make money, Star Wars is better/ worse...WHATEVER! I just don&#39;t think this could get more irritating! And completely unproductive. Some people are posting just to piss on other peoples BBQ&#39;s. And those people get sucked in and try to "outpost" the person fucking with them. "You&#39;re immature!" Uh...yeah?!! Of course they are! They&#39;re fucking with you! You can&#39;t see that? But the "fans" are worse cuz you perpetuate it. If you give them no one to fight with, what can they accomplish except wasting their own time? The whole thing is just STUPID!!! As far as which is better, I refuse to choose cuz I love them both!! I will see FOTR opening night and most likely get right back in line again after it&#39;s over. I will see ATOC opening night and probably go see it multiple times like I have for every Star Wars movie. For me, this is a great time!!! I grew up with LOTR, Star Wars, and Spider-man. And here they all are for me to see on the big screen. How awesome is that?!! Star Wars is being finished in my lifetime!! WooHoo!!! LOTR live action? in 3 movies- 1 for each book?!! Oh my fucking god!!!! First X-men and now Spider-man? It doesn&#39;t get any better than this!!! Honestly- how lucky can we all get?!!! Think about it. Talk to ya.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:32 p.m. CST

    Previous post

    by Caine

    I apologize for the Anti-Celine remark, and slipping into Venom mode.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:34 p.m. CST

    Tolkien does not imply DnD

    by CuttingRoomFloor

    and the reverse is true as well. Just because Gygax was inspired by Tolkien&#39;s work when creating DnD does not mean that fans of one are automatically fans of the other. And as far as DnD dweebs being markedly different from SW dweebs, what a LAUGH! Ho ho ho! All dweebs behave alike. Thankfully, only some use nicks like DRCOOL, elf_killer and Darth Keith and come a-trollin&#39; on the TalkBack.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:36 p.m. CST

    Caine, SW and LOTR *are* in competition of a kind

    by wilko185

    Not financially, but they will inevitably be compared to each other. (Well what else is in the same league?) What would be cool is if Lucas sees LOTR and it pushes him to do better. He might see that a money-spinning "franchise" can also be a serious piece of film-making, with, you know, a good plot and good acting and so forth. He was inspired by the book, why not by the film? (I&#39;m assuming LOTR will raise the bar, and not suck, but I feel quite confident at this point).

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:38 p.m. CST


    by Dienekes

    Classic! That just about sums it up. Don&#39;t forget that they also make pilgrimages to bogs (slang for toilets in the UK). I wonder if that other George, Michael has ever followed the Jedi way.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:39 p.m. CST

    Two cents

    by Ben Dobyns

    The Wachowski brothers did a great little gem called "Bound" before "The Matrix". - - - - PJ proved his artistry as a filmmaker with "Heavenly Creatures". - - - - And wouldn&#39;t you much rather read a good back than argue with trolls on a talkback? I would.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Perceived hypothetical competition between films

    by diaphinia

    It&#39;s very interesting to see how freaked out people are getting about this film, especially FoTR as compared to (!!!) the Star Wars phenomenon. Why does one ahve to be better or worse than the other? Why do fans of one franchise have to be diametrically opposed to another? Frankly, I don&#39;t think the vitriol is about the films... especially since neither AOTC or FOTR is actually out yet.========The discussion of the body type of women who like Tolkein as opposed to those who like Star Wars is ludicrous at BEST. Again, it&#39;s more about the feelings of (inadequacy?) that the angry posters have. Whether a person is slim, average, athletic, voluptuous, round, or morbidly obese has very little (If I say nothing, I&#39;m sure it&#39;ll touch off more flames) to do with personal tastes. Defending the idea that not all women who like Tolkien are vast is as ridiculous as stating the opposite. The debate is basically moot, anyway, because, as has been pointed out, there is a HELL OF A LOT OF OVERLAP between the fan bases.==========As far as the money = quality equation is concerned, I&#39;d have to say that, while income is a barometer of popularity, it&#39;s certainly not a measure of quality. Happy Gilmore made more money than Memento, but I&#39;m pretty damn sure that it&#39;s not empirically a better film. ========I&#39;m caught up in the excitement about the release of FoTR, for many reasons, and I don&#39;t see why its success should say much if anything about the SW saga. Because some people seem to feel that what they post online is of great importance to them personally, things get rather intense in some discussions. I&#39;m used to seeing people this worked up over issues like abortion or capital punishment. Getting this agitated over which film is going to make more money, which film i s better, which film attracts the more bodacious female audience seems, well, like the kind of things about which people in grade school, with no creative outlet for their energy and aggression, fought about. It&#39;s pretty absurd.=========I&#39;ve got to get the heck out of here. Play nicely, boys. The sand box is big.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:48 p.m. CST

    I strongly deny Star Wars contains anything gay!

    by C-3PO

    Ooo really Sir, how dare you! ...What? Why thank you Sir, you&#39;re a fine-looking man yourself...

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:52 p.m. CST

    And furthermore

    by Dienekes

    And when not hanging around in bogs, Jedi are perpetually urging each other to &#39;feel the force&#39;.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Yet more damning evidence

    by Dienekes

    They also seem overly keen on using the force to have the &#39;power of suggestion&#39; over weaker minded individuals. Darth Vader is even worse. He seems to like autoerotic-asphixiation (Michael Hutchence anyone?), admittedly inflicted upon other rather than himself. But then judging by the sound of his breathing, he seems to have over-induldged already. They also seem to have some sort of a jealousy fixation on the right hand. They cut them off in all 3 films in the orginal trilogy. I am sure there is some deep Freudian reason behind it.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:03 p.m. CST

    Quick LOTR question

    by SpikedBuffy

    I know this is about 2 years away now, but i thought i remember a little while ago someone saying that PJ change the end of "Return of the King" so that the scourging of the shire portion of the book would not be incorporated into the movie. Does anyone else know anything about this rumor? only 20 to go, fellowship is gonna be SIC. nam

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:05 p.m. CST

    You are damn right

    by Dienekes

    And what about Vader. He seems excessively keen on autoerotic-asphixiation (shades of Michael Hutchence), although admittedly he prefers to inflict it on others. Though judging by the sound of his breathing I would say that it is more than likely that he has overindulged in the past. And what is this preference for cutting people&#39;s right hands off. It happens in each of the 3 films in the original trilogy. Something Freudian perhaps?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Quick LOTR question

    by SpikedBuffy

    I know this is about 2 years away now, but i thought i remember a little while ago someone saying that PJ change the end of "Return of the King" so that the scourging of the shire portion of the book would not be incorporated into the movie. Does anyone else know anything about this rumor? only 20 to go, fellowship is gonna be SIC. nam

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:12 p.m. CST


    by pravda

    "...blah blah...the fact of the 20 sided diced in your pocket...blah blah" -- Can&#39;t even distinguish between Tolkien and D&D! SW fans, gotta love em.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Hey Star Wars fans

    by C-3PO

    Gather everyone in the office round your PC and check this out!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:24 p.m. CST

    Scouring is out

    by wilko185

    According to scriptwriter Boyens said

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:29 p.m. CST


    by SpikedBuffy

    It&#39;s the one chance we get to see the hobbits as badasses independantly. sigh.....maybe the dvd will contain at least some of the footage. Thanks for answering my question.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:30 p.m. CST


    by SpikedBuffy

    It&#39;s the one chance we get to see the hobbits as badasses independantly. sigh.....maybe the dvd will contain at least some of the footage. Thanks for answering my question.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:33 p.m. CST


    by SpikedBuffy

    It&#39;s the one chance we get to see the hobbits as badasses independantly. sigh.....maybe the dvd will contain at least some of the footage. Thanks for answering my question. i wonder how saruman will meet his end then?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:39 p.m. CST

    my favorite lines from Star wars:

    by C-3PO

    "Hey, Luke, thanks for coming after me - now I owe you one." "Luke, at that speed do you think you&#39;ll be able to pull out in time?" "Wedge! Pull out! You&#39;re not doing any good back there!" ---- heheheh, me so gay......

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:40 p.m. CST

    Star Wars Fan Here

    by RandomCode

    Right. Let&#39;s put the record straight once and for all. &#39;Elf_Killer&#39; and &#39;DrCool&#39; are wankers. FACT. They are not a true representation of Star Wars fans, so it annoys me when people form an opinion of a group of people based on the rantings of two idiots. But they may not have been idiots once - I&#39;ll explain... Many SW fans, are at the moment experiencing something of an identity crisis. These can be broken down into the following points. 1) These too &#39;men&#39; - and many more - refuse to acknowledge that the film, Phantom Menace, is a huge pile a fantasy rubbish. Badly acted. Poor special effects. Shoddy plot. Terrible script. Atrocious editing. Amatuer directing. Ultimately, one big advert for a couple of half-arsed video games. 2) They are threatened by anything that MAY usurp Star Wars in the collective psyche as the ultimate fantasy film experience. This view would not be expressed anywhere near so vehemently, by the said tossers, had TPM been anything near as good as what it should have been. 3) They are hoping, beyond all hope, that AotC will redeem the SW franchise. Until their fears are laid to rest (which, incidentally, they won&#39;t be - AotC is crap. Fact. I know), they will not be able to acknowledge/enjoy other film. *** Now I&#39;m also a LotR fan. But SW got me into it. I watched ANH when I was 6 - read LotR when I was 9. The original SW trilogy are a wonderful set of films. George Lucas&#39; love for the subject shone through in the ANH. This love was continued by the hugely talented Mr Kasdan (basically, the writer of ESB and the good bits in RotJ), and the sequels directors. Its a pity this love hasn&#39;t been infused in any of the new trilogy films. :-( LotR will be an awesome film and many SW fans cannot handle that. Haven&#39;t you noticed, they steer clear of arguing the merits of the film&#39;s stories and generally resort to: "My box office is bigger than your box office!" Sweet Jesus! About the only thing worth remembering that was said by &#39;elf_killer&#39; is "Crap sells better". Spot on, thats why TPM grossed so highly! See what I mean? If any LotR fans (who aren&#39;t also SW fans) are reading this. I&#39;m living proof that not all of us are idiots/wankers/whatever! I hope FotR blows all the records to hell, and is - more importantly, a great film. Because if it is, then Lucas may realise how shit he has become and: 1) Scrap AotC. 2) Redo a new TPM (and call it something different). 3) Redo a new AotC (and call it something different). 4) Redo a new IGLAIS (I&#39;m George Lucas and I smell) - oh, and call it something different! Hee Hee. Byeeeeeeeeeee!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:53 p.m. CST

    SpikedBuffy (saw your reply somehow :-)

    by wilko185

    Re: Saruman&#39;s end, nothing&#39;s been confirmed AFAIK, but you do know about the leaked picture of him impaled on a big spiky wheel don&#39;t you? So maybe he dies in Orthanc. ____ Now let&#39;s see where this post lands....

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:56 p.m. CST

    ever notice darth vader looks like a big black dick. just though

    by El Kabong 007

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 6:58 p.m. CST

    damn, someone beat me to the vader cock

    by El Kabong 007

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 7:06 p.m. CST


    by SpikedBuffy

    Sorry about the multiple postage, i thought my second post would go after my first i didn&#39;t see it until the 3rd time and it was out of order. If saruman is gonna die i think wormtongue still needs to do it, i still can&#39;t believe they would cut out the scourging. So does that mean we don&#39;t get frodo leaving for the havens as well?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 7:07 p.m. CST


    by RandomCode

    I&#39;m gay and a Star Wars fan. I love C-3PO, he makes my golden rod hard. Mmmmmmmmm, hey &#39;elf_killer&#39; and &#39;DrCool&#39; - wanna get off on a threesome while watching GL interviews? Mmmmmmmmmm...

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 7:10 p.m. CST

    Stuff You Like

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    I guess, when it comes to the cuts, cos the books is so huge, there is always going to something changed or cut that you, personally, believe to be absolutely fundamental to the whole story. I feel that way about the squeaky clean Shire at the end, about Frodo&#39;s little defiant moment at the Ford (which was one of the few things that was actually done very well in the Bakshi version) and also about Sam. The other review I read said that they thought Sam and his intro was rushed. Now, I believe that regular doses of Sam are one of the main things that makes LOTR cool, so if he&#39;s handled badly, I will be dissappointed. That said, I could hardly be more dissappointed than I was with the Bakshi version, where Sam has *no* intro and appears to be retarded *and* deformed. And what was the deal with him hiding behind some rock in the middle of the night, hoping that someone will happen by so he can eavesdrop on them? Or maybe he was stalking Frodo. Whatever. In any case, it is also wrong and bad to diss Darth Vader, who, I assure you, at least one of my girlfriends found to be a potent source of hetero fantasy when we were growing up. She had the hugest crush on him. It was actually quite scary. I always preferred Han myself. I guess I&#39;m less sexually adventurous.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 7:19 p.m. CST


    by Sinister

    Firstly, I

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 7:23 p.m. CST

    i would never pick on an oversized black penis

    by El Kabong 007

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 7:24 p.m. CST

    The # 1 line party in the world

    by Mjshep

    Hey LOTR fans of Salt Lake City, Utah, go support the line party @ We need to show that we are the definitive version of geeks in all the world. LOTR Rocks, Frodo Lives, and to all the people who think not, The Fellowship is 19 days away.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 7:32 p.m. CST

    Cuts and spoilers

    by wilko185

    Obviously some things have to go, and some new suff must be added. We&#39;d damnwell better see the Grey Havens at least. Surely the movie won&#39;t just end at somewhere like the Field of Cormallen (that would be too, well, Star Warsy ;-). The melancholy ending is essential to the story arc, and I&#39;m sure PJ knows this. ____ Someone asked earlier about how can there be spoilers when we&#39;ve read the book. Well I both do and don&#39;t want to know stuff like how Saruman dies, what does the balrog look like etc. I haven&#39;t read Frodolives&#39; report, so I was pissed at just finding out while skipping thru this talkback that Aragorn agrees to Frodo going off alone at the end of FOTR. Now I&#39;m getting all mad thinking "why&#39;d they have to mess around with the story" whereas if I hadn&#39;t been "spoiled" I could have seen the plot change in the context of the film, where it probably works and makes sense anyway.... So what am I still doing here? Good question...

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 7:44 p.m. CST

    I got the Rolling Stone Traver&#39;s Top 10 ...

    by CuttingRoomFloor

    from both Dark Horizons and Reel Buff. Not the greatest of sources but since it was confirmed .... thought it was worth posting. Heck, I don&#39;t even give a rat&#39;s ass who Traver&#39;s is anyway, but if he likes FoTR, he&#39;s OK in my book.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:07 p.m. CST

    girls and LOTR

    by Shawneous

    Yes, girls do like LOTR. My sister is 16 (no, she&#39;s not a geek-she&#39;s a dancer) loves LOTR-read all 4+Similarion, etc, etc. So relax guys, just one day a girl might be impressed that you can give the genealogy of Aragorn. :-)

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:30 p.m. CST

    Tolkien virgins

    by wilko185

    I was wondering earlier about how the film strikes people who haven&#39;t read the book. Well there&#39;s one apparent reaction at And I quote: "I could go on and on, but the last thing I can say is that while I was impressed with Harry Potter (and have read all the books) I was WAY more emotionally connected to LOTR (and I haven&#39;t read ANY of the books). I plan to now, though. There&#39;s a rumor that Peter Travers of Rolling Stone is calling LOTR the best movie of the year. I can&#39;t say I disagree with him." _____ This sounds fairly encouraging.... :-)

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:33 p.m. CST

    Quest for the Ring

    by PeanutGallery

    That 30 minute special just about killed me. The tension my wife and I got as we watched a 2 minute clip of the Moira attack was unreal...we both looked at each other afterwards and gave a little shiver. Bring on the 19th!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:44 p.m. CST

    They have a cave troll.

    by wallyfan


  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:47 p.m. CST

    Quest for the Ring sucked....EXCEPT for....

    by RedCapitalist

    FOX&#39;s special was retarded, EXCEPTR FOR the two minute clip at the end. SWEET MOTHER OF GHANDI!!!! WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW. I can&#39;t think of any words that can accurately describe how I feel about this. PJ is DA MAN. I love how none of the footage I have seen has that "Hollywood feel"....none of it is over done, and yet you feel like you are IN THE ACTION....WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:55 p.m. CST

    Aragorn sends Frodo off to Mordor???!

    by northriver

    Thanks to FrodoLives for the detailed report. I am very encouraged on the whole. However, one change really makes my blood boil, namely: "Aragorn finds Frodo. After a rather touching scene, he agrees with Frodo&#39;s wish to go off on his own. It is the only way. " This makes me wonder if Jackson understands *anything* about the themes and structure of LoTR. It is vital that Frodo make his own choice, without consultation, and leaves quietly on his own. Never mind that Aragorn would never let Frodo go on his own. It&#39;s a terrible decision, because it undermines the character and hobbit nature of Frodo, to go it alone. Very disappointing.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:56 p.m. CST

    Very jealous

    by europop

    Damn you Americans, I want to see the Moria footage too!! Someone get it online ASAP!! I do have something else to add, from someone who confirms that FOTR will be the #1 movie of the year in Rolling Stone, and gives quotes from Travers&#39; review: "Combines mythic power, a personal touch and breathless indiana jones action to create a movie that is both epic and intimate. Damn this guy&#39;s good!" and also: "towers like a collosus above all other hollywood films." I can&#39;t take much more of this!!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:05 p.m. CST


    by europop

    I think you are reading the scene wrong. Frodo still resolves to go it alone before meeting Aragorn. Infact, he is so resolved about it that he is able to convince Aragorn that it&#39;s for the best. So he does make his own choice. I agree that Aragorn would not abandon Frodo if possible, but I don&#39;t think he would go against Frodo&#39;s wishes. He would not force his presence upon Frodo. I think this will be perfectly in character for both of them.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:11 p.m. CST

    Moria Clip

    by JackLint

    Am I the only one who chose not to watch the Moria Clip? I think that some things should be saved for the movie. I think people nowadays end up knowing more than they should about a movie before it comes out. Im not saying that I dont saok up every little tidbit of info, but there is a line that I try not to cross. Maybe I&#39;m wrong, maybe the clip didnt even give away too much, but I didnt want to chance it. All Ive seen of the Cave troll is that split second in the commercial - and I want to keep it that way, I want the troll to have the full effect, not to mention the Balrog. Here&#39;s a question- If right now, you had the chance to see the full CG design for Gollum, would you? It would be hard as hell, but I wouldn&#39;t.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:12 p.m. CST

    Sorry, unconvinced

    by northriver

    Europop, what makes this change doubly annoying is that it is UNNECESSARY. Nothing is made clearer or simpler for the movie by having Frodo leave with Aragorn&#39;s blessing. ====== It is a random, irritating, superfluous, and foolish decision by Jackson!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:16 p.m. CST


    by SpacePervert

    Just a thought, how WILL all the Tolkien virgins feel after 2 hours 58 when there is no particular kind of closure. Empire Strikes Back did that very well halfway through a trilogy, but don&#39;t forget LOTR was not written as a trilogy. When you&#39;re reading it, you just turn the page. I predict that lots of people will walk out of the cinema straight into a bookshop, and while they&#39;re on, form their own opinion of Tim Benzedrino. BTW, Gunsblazing, I respect your opinion, once upon a time I would have agreed with you. But I got over my "book was better than the film" fixation.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:18 p.m. CST

    fear of the UNKOWN(as in strange,alien) is exactly what

    by morpheus

    Alien is all about.The facehugger symbolise the subconcious fer of oral rape.The chestburster the rape victim&#39;s fear of the foreign(as in alien) baby inside her.The word&#39;alien&#39; itself means the unknown.Think of the penile headed alien stalking Jones,the cat.Actully what IS a cat doin&#39; in the middle of nowhere?The cat is a symbol of Ripley&#39;s sexuality.Think!Cat = PUSSY.So the next time you see the alien leering at Jones,it wouldm give a newb twist to the whole affair.Monsters are the embodiment of fear of the unkown.They live side by side..

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:21 p.m. CST

    Moria scene amazing, although much of the hacking obviously edit

    by AntoniusBloc

    The Moria scene looked amazing, however you can tell they edited a lot of the fighting in the scene, probably because it&#39;s too violent for tv(maybe those who have seen the complete scene can confirm this). Also, I couldn&#39;t tell if Glamdring was glowing blue like Sting. If not, shouldn&#39;t it, both being elvish blades?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:33 p.m. CST

    North, the change was needed

    by Maximus21

    The audience has to have a way of knowing what Frodo is thinking. Being able to hear his thoughts aloud would have made the scenes really gay. If he doesn&#39;t say anything, people are going to think "what&#39;s that asshole doing, his friends are back their fighting orcs and he&#39;s running like a pussy to the nearest boat." I don&#39;t see this a major change anyway, I&#39;m sure the audience will see enough during the movie to know Frodo isn&#39;t a wuss and can make his own decisions.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:33 p.m. CST

    Galadriel = Cate Blanchett = Beautiful

    by RedCapitalist

    I know a lot of people don&#39;t consider her "hot", but I think she is a really attractive woman, in her own way =)

  • Northriver, I can think of one obvious reason to handle the scene the way Jackson has done it: it removes the necessity to have the bit at the beginning of Two Towers where Aragorn hunts around for tracks to figure out where Frodo has gone. I can&#39;t think of a way to make that scene play well at all in a movie; if realistically long, it would be insanely boring, and if unrealistically short, it would be, well, unrealistic. If you cut that scene, you have to give Aragorn the necessary information some other way.

  • There were two lines in that footage that stood out... first Boromir&#39;s "They have a cave troll." I thought at first "WTF? Is he bored??", but then it seemed more like, "Oh well... Nazgul, Crebain, Orcs all the time... and now they got a fucking cave troll... *sigh*" ;) Boromir is just the pretentious asshole who I see when I read the books. The other line was of course Gimli&#39;s. Hell, Tolkien&#39;s dialogues _are_ sometimes "stilted" (still not as much as some of Lucas&#39; dialogues, of course), and this one is no exception, but it&#39;s delivered with so much raw power behind it that it&#39;s perfectly believable. -------------------------------- I may digitize the Moria footage and put it on the web if someone knows some good free web space provider that doesn&#39;t have stupid 5MB or 10MB file size restrictions. And no, I am not going to join Morpheus just to get that video out. And no again, I am not going to email a 20+MB file around. ;)

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 9:58 p.m. CST


    by EvilNight

    That special was pretty good. The Moria bit was too chopped and edited for my tastes, also it looked like shite on the TV. It was still very good, "can&#39;t wait, such a huge fan." Anyways, I got to agree 100% with Northriver, I&#39;m not very keen on having Frodo and Aragorn chat and then decide to part. I liked it immensely in the books when Aragorn was being torn almost literally in half trying to decide whether to follow Frodo or to go after Merry and Pippin. Granted, that&#39;s a tough one to handle on screen as many others have pointed out. I would have left the uncertainty in, and just had Aragorn make his decision faster, without talking to Frodo at all. Then again, I haven&#39;t seen Jackson&#39;s dialogue between Aragorn and Frodo either, so I won&#39;t go dissing his decision until I see how it plays on screen.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:01 p.m. CST

    Boromir and his friend, the cave troll

    by MPG

    Well, Boromir has probably spent most of his adult life defending the eastern border of Gondor against attacks from Mordor (just like Faramir, when we first "meet" him in the book in Ithilien). I&#39;m sure he has seen his fair share of weird creatures in that time, probably including some cave trolls. Regarding the computer animation: I&#39;m usually not too good at spotting stuff like that, so it looked quite ok to me. It definitely looked better than any Jurassic Park CG dinosaur in my opinion. Your mileage may vary though. At least the compositing was quite well-done, i.e. the troll definitely didn&#39;t "stand out".

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:05 p.m. CST

    can&#39;t wait for the movie . . . but are any of you guys think

    by ol' painless

    I have read and interview that Peter Jackson gave, where he said basically " . . . there was a lot of film we had that we had to leave out . . . " Which says to me in big shouty capital letters . . . "SEVEN HOUR LONG DIRECTORS CUT ON DVD!!!" C&#39;mon Peter . . . from one Kiwi to another (born and raised in the Waikato, now living in Christchurch, me!) - you don&#39;t want to just THROW AWAY all that footage - but you can still leave Bombadil out - "hey dol come merry dol" and hobbits running around hilltops naked indeed!

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:19 p.m. CST

    7 hours director&#39;s cut? Well... perhaps not. ;)

    by MPG

    Not that I wouldn&#39;t like it, but I don&#39;t think they have THAT much more footage. Also, keep in mind that they&#39;ll be damn busy with postproduction on TTT next year - it may in fact be much more work than the postproduction for FotR (remember Gollum, the battle of Helm&#39;s Deep, and the toughest of them all - Treebeard). The DVD is supposed to come out somewhat late next year, isn&#39;t it? I doubt they&#39;d have TOO much time to complete more than, say, 20 minutes of additonal footage. But who knows, there may be a special edition one day. Others have milked that particular money cow quite successfully. ;)

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:32 p.m. CST

    Kubrick101: I know what you mean.

    by RedCapitalist

    What the crap WAS THAT? The Willow commerical said, "Before there were hobbits; before there were wizards, there was WILLOW" WHAT THE FREAKIN CRAP???? Sweet Mother of Ghandi! I will hunt down and strangle to death the idiot who made that commericial.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:34 p.m. CST


    by FrodoLives

    A clarification on the "Frodo talks to Aragorn" thing: The scene plays phenomenally well. If you&#39;re going to be dumb enough to dismiss it as crap without ever seeing it, then you really shouldn&#39;t be seeing this movie;re just going to get yourself all worked into a lather. Frodo and Aragorn do not "discuss his leaving". Frodo has already made his decision. Realistically, he made it after looking into the Mirror of Galadriel, he just couldn&#39;t bring himself to do it. Or talk about it. Boromir brought it to a head. When Aragorn comes on Frodo, Frodo thinks that Aragorn is coming for the Ring...he starts to back away. Aragorn sees the suspicion and sees where it comes from....and realizes that Frodo is right....the Ring will twist everyone there. Even then, it&#39;s not so much a decision to let him go as it is a decision to have Frodo run while Aragorn turns to face the horde of Uruk Hai that come racing into the clearing. Look, just go into this movie with an open mind. You&#39;re going to be amazed.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:35 p.m. CST


    by MPG

    Actually, I have been thinking for a while that these advertisements may qualify as false advertising. I do think that New Line (or Saul Zaentz) could go against these commercials with legal action - and win. But of course, that would be bad publicity for them. It&#39;s not impossible though.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Fox footage

    by spunaround

    The Quest for the Ring was decent enough but what really pissed me off was the narration. Cheese. Made it sound like the blatant advertising that it was. Nice that Shelob made an appearance. *** The Moria footage was fantastic despite obvious editing. If you listen to the sound effects, the low end drops off a few times and there were a few continuity issues...that&#39;s when I assumed that it had been drastically editing for television. Legolas was sweet. Perfect expressions. Gimli, I couldn&#39;t understand his line. The troll looked better than I had anticipated. Best part of the footage was how the music just stopped before the Troll started swinging. Built more intensity than having non-stop music raging through the scene. Anyway, looks good.*** As for Box Office potential. I don&#39;t expect any records but I&#39;m fairly confident that New Line will make their money back. I&#39;m sure they&#39;ll sleep at night knowing that I&#39;ve made that proclamation.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:37 p.m. CST


    by EvilNight

    Now, handled that way the leaving scene sounds pretty good after all.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:39 p.m. CST

    These behind the scenes shows suck except for E!&#39;s

    by Maximus21

    I liked the big scene, although it was butched to hell for tv and we didnt see much. I liked to see how they made the weapons but that was about it. about 30 seconds total of other scenes and Viggo fishing? WTF Fox!! And that narrator sounded like a fucking robot reading cue cards. I thought Harry said Arwen(Liv Tyler was the host) or was that something else. I also watched the one on Harry Potter on NBC and that one sucked too.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:57 p.m. CST

    Is this site going to post an objective LOTR between now and Dec

    by Indiana Jones

    Why is everyone sp freaked about the effects? From the Fox special, it honestly didn&#39;t look like it was anything we haven&#39;t already seen, from Jurassic Park to Episode I. The cave troll didn&#39;t look all that real to me. And I really hope we get a review from someone other than a fanboy on this site. Wouldn&#39;t that be a nice change?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:57 p.m. CST

    Fox: Quest for the Ring

    by General Idea

    Decent job by Fox. But couldn&#39;t they get anyone else to do the narration here? This guy blows...

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:02 p.m. CST

    I thought the cave troll looked very good, better than HP&#39;s

    by Maximus21

    the troll in HP looked like Sloth from the Goonies dad.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:13 p.m. CST

    You can&#39;t talk back in TB

    by elf_killer2

    Ok its clear. You can trash Star Wars and JarJar all you want. Compare LOTR against SW and trash SW. But if you talk back to much against LOTR you&#39;ll be banned. If you do the same thing back to LOTR the way they treat SW. Harry will ban you. That ain&#39; Its lets promote LOTR and let people bash SW. Its out of control am I the only one that see it this way don&#39;t the SW fans see this also. No fair reviews of LOTRs... Still waiting.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:21 p.m. CST


    by europop

    northriver, Frodo.lives has spoken. He is in a far better position to judge than you. Condemning Jackson for it without having even seen it makes you look like a twat. ------ "The cave troll didn&#39;t look all that real to me." ----- For crying out loud, how can a cave troll look real when we all know it&#39;s an imaginary creature. Come on, if you go looking for the signs of CGI you will spot them. The cave troll is probably the most gritty and interactive piece of CGI I&#39;ve ever seen. But of course it still looks CG, like any CG character. WETA have done amazing work, but obviously ILM fans are going to have a hard time admitting it.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:35 p.m. CST

    Objective reviews...

    by MPG

    Really, is there _ever_ going to be an objective review for LotR? It would have to come from someone who has been living in a cabin in the middle of a huge forest for 50 years. Everyone has some sort of opinion about the books, some think they are great, some think they are ok, some people who have never read them think they are for children, etc. etc. etc. These books have sold too well to leave anyone without an opinion about them, no matter if they have read the books or not. I doubt we&#39;ll ever really see an objective review. We&#39;ll all have to wait till Dec 19th to see for ourselves if this movie lives up to the first few enthusiastic (and admittedly biased) reviews we are seeing.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:54 p.m. CST


    by Mythopoiea

    Phew! I was hoping that this "Howard Shore" character, who has scored for epics like ExiStenZ or however they capitalized it, would have it in him to compose good music for the movie. I had this idea of what it should sound like, but when it came right down to it, I&#39;d never heard anything like it, so I couldn&#39;t put it into words. Thankfully, Howard Shore, THE MAN, has done it. He was able to pronounce practically everything I felt into a great soundtrack. Everyone except people looking for a point of contention would disagree that this is a well-devised score. This will be what Howard Shore is known for. Sure, it&#39;s not necessarily got the Williams Boston Pops feel to it, and fortunately not Horner&#39;s I&#39;m-Gonna-Make-It-On-The-Billboard sappy sameness. It&#39;s it&#39;s own feel. And this coming from a guy who loves soaring melodies.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:03 a.m. CST


    by Mythopoiea

    I meant, everyone would AGREE that this is a well-devised score

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:07 a.m. CST

    My fav. part of the FOX thing...

    by BasharTeg

    ... was watching Aragorn serve up a chocolate birthday cake with strawberries on top! (oh, and the moria thing, too)

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:13 a.m. CST

    Just saw the FOX thingy

    by BH|Sauron

    Just saw the FOX special, sure all you did to. -Some neat new Moria scenes. A great part where Boromir says "they&#39;ve got a cave troll" half humorously. Sure it will be up on the net soon :) GOOD STUFFF clap clap :P

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:15 a.m. CST


    by Mythopoiea

    Viggo Mortensen IS Aragorn. The more clips I see of him speaking, the more I find Aragorn. He&#39;s nothing like any of the action heroes floating around a dime a dozen in Hollywood these days. You see nobility - does anyone know what that means anymore?

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:25 a.m. CST


    by BH|Sauron

    Theres only one other man that carries that sort of nobility and humbleness, yet is powerful and grim. -you geussed it. -Frank Stallone.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:27 a.m. CST

    Gimli is cross-eyed?

    by modalman

    Why does Gimli look like an old cross-eyed badger with a skin disease? I imagined him looking buff and healthy. And I couldn&#39;t understand a word he said in the Fox promo.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:34 a.m. CST

    Who the hell is Lurtz?!!

    by twindaggerturkey

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:57 a.m. CST

    of Lurtz and Gimli

    by Maximus21

    Lurtz is the orc who kills Boromir, although in reading a detailed review recently, the person was asked about Lurtz and said his name was not mentioned once during the film. So maybe they just named him so they knew him on the set or something. And Gimli, I think he looks cool but I too have no idea what he&#39;s saying in that clip(although he says it with great conviction). it sounds like he says "there is one dwarf left in moria who deserves his props"

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 1:15 a.m. CST


    by rsrobin

    Pathetic whining little trolls like you have no idea how powerful these films are going to be. You really don&#39;t.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 1:25 a.m. CST

    "His name is Lurtz..."

    by wilko185

    Sean Bean was interviewed on TV recently and didn&#39;t seem to know who Lurtz was either. So the name was probably just given to the WETA model statue (and an action figure?). ____ Re the official poster, I prefer this version: The new one just looks too crowded IMO, with everyone and his dog on it. Frodo&#39;s anguished expression is great though (If you haven&#39;t noticed, the official site has quicktime versions of the trailers now, btw)

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 1:27 a.m. CST

    YEAH! I don&#39;t hear any sh*t talking now, after the FOX speci

    by RMcCallum

    Wait a minute.. maybe it&#39;s because the trolls have went to bed? Why am I backing up LOTR? NO! GEORGE... PLEASE FORGIVE ME!!!! What? You want to push Episode 2 back to rework the effects? Yeah I guess WETA is kicking our ass.... well, back to the drawing board.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 1:53 a.m. CST

    what gimli says

    by spunaround

    I watched it again and he says "Let them come. There is one dwarf yet in Moria who still draws breath." Nice line of it in FOTR, the book? I skimmed that passage and couldn&#39;t find it.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 2:09 a.m. CST

    Gimli says

    by SpikedBuffy

    what gimli says "There is one dwarf yet in Moria who still draws blood" at least that&#39;s what it sounded like to me. I also thought that it was edited differently from when we actually see it.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 2:10 a.m. CST

    female LOTR review ....

    by rack

    just emailed harry with link, let&#39;s see how long it takes.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 2:22 a.m. CST

    Thoughts from a GIRL who has seen IT

    by Ioreth

    :-) She has been on the same MB as myself for the last years so I can vouch for her having seen the finished film. Another poster (Maury) phoned and interviewed her since she said she couldn

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 2:46 a.m. CST


    by oorat22

    no, i listened to five or six times in a row, and he says breath not blood. it makes more sense anyway, since he&#39;s refering to the fact that there is a "living" dwarf in moria. but on to the special, wow. just plain wow. and another thing, funny that the only negative comments are from tolkienites who mainly didnt like the changes made from the book. other than that they liked it. or loved it. whens the last time we heard people talk bout star wars like that. there its either you like(for some reason, perhaps ur on crack) or you hate it. here its i love it, but why did they change that from the book. 20 days my friends, 20 days, and the world will be awakened. hehehehehehe. my gosh, its almost 2am, i think ill watch it again.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:41 a.m. CST

    I hope it gets on the net sometime soon

    by The Hierophant

    Well, I couldn&#39;t see the Fox special tonight, so I missed all the fun. If somebody could digitize it and put it up on the Net or Morpheus or Kazaa, I&#39;d be eternally grateful. :) Even if it&#39;s only the cave troll scene, I&#39;d be more than happy just to get that. :)

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 4:01 a.m. CST

    As for the femme LOTR review

    by dunedude1

    Sounds like someone has someone else by the balls, the dude reporting it didn&#39;t sound like he had the utmost of leeway, I felt for the dude, each moment in the review it sounded like he might lose part of his balls, I say fuck that bitch and find another slut who likes LOTR, cause you know bitches are a dime a dozen. Fuck hoes brothas, they flock to balls so just lay em out and play lady luck right. I&#39;ll tell you what, if I knew a bitch that reviewed LOTR like that, I&#39;d lock her in my basement til she changed her mind or decided to give me 20 minutes of head, either way, it sounds like the bitch was not the "girl" who actually gave the review but it was the bitch of a guy who actually wrote it for her...pussy. haha, hey man, I could use some good head, what are your running rates, hahahah!

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 4:29 a.m. CST

    more from Nazgurl ....

    by rack

    Q/A for those interested

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 4:31 a.m. CST

    once more w/ url

    by rack

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 4:38 a.m. CST

    Tom Bombadil in the Director&#39;s Cut?

    by boloboffin

    Seems to me I remember hearing back at the beginning of principal photography that Uma Thurman was in New Zealand, along with Ethan Hawke. Could they possibly be on digital tape somewhere as Mr. and Mrs. Bombadil, ready to be put back into their proper place in the story? Well, we will see, no doubt...

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 5:02 a.m. CST

    Time for a rant, I think

    by wilko185

    But first, MPG (or someone), could you host just a 1 or 2 Mb Moria clip? this sounds like the only bit worth seeing, anyway. __ Boloboffin, that would be cool, but Ethan Hawke? Odd casting, no? ____ So, yet another glowingly positive review <yawn> ;-), linked to above by rack (thanks btw. I take it the Q&A is full of spoilers?). The only criticisms of the film involved the Arwen at the Ford bit, and the Gandalf capture scene. The former has been thoroughly hashed over, so I think I&#39;ll have a tirade about the latter. And I can relate it to the issue of everyone hating Tolkien&#39;s poetry, which has been bugging me for a while. ___ ____ This Gandalf and Saruamn "wizard duel" just sounds silly to me. And the trailer shot of Gandalf in Orthanc spinning through the air doesn&#39;t allay my fears. Tolkien didn&#39;t give any details of the wizard&#39;s duel, in fact we can suppose there wasn&#39;t one- Gandalf wisely submitted because he knew he had no chance of defeating Saruman on his home turf (maybe this is how he mangaged to hold on to his ring, staff and sword?). Later, Gandalf the White deposes Saruman without any telekinesis or pyrotechnics, just a simple "your staff is broken". If PJ et al wanted to have a dramatic confrontation in fotr, the Tolkien model they could have tried to emulate is the "singing contest" between Finrod and Sauron in the tale of Beren and Luthien. OK, this type of thing would take a *lot* of work to do credibly, but still, it would have been a less formulaic approach (for a film) _____ ____ It&#39;s notable that many instances of "white magic" in Tolkien involve *singing* (eg virtually everything Tom B does, the song of Gildor and the elves driving away the black rider, Frodo&#39;s trance-like state in the Hall of Fire, Luthien bewitching Morgoth and overthrowing Sauron&#39;s stronghold, and of course the Music of the Ainur creating the blueprint for the world. Even in The Hobbit, Bilbo has the "glamour" of gold-lust cast on him by the dwarves&#39; song). ____ The point is, the verse in LOTR is important. And not just from the whole "music as an expression of sub-creation" angle. While not strictly necessary to the story it adds to its richness (though I doubt the average movie-goer would pick up on the significance of Aragorn&#39;s song of Beren and Luthien). I&#39;m glad to hear that some of the songs at least are in the film. Lots of folks don&#39;t like them, probably because they don&#39;t realise (a) they are performed *in character* - criticising Sam&#39;s naive troll song is like criticising Gollum&#39;s bad grammar, and (b) they are really *songs* not poems. Like most verses they work better when read aloud. In fact, I often do this when reading lotr (depending on who else is around), and some poems, like the Earendil one and Sam&#39;s song in the tower of Cirith Ungol, fit themselves to a tune (despite the fact that I&#39;m totally unmusical). Take the time to try it on your next read through.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 5:05 a.m. CST

    i AM a critic.

    by a goonie

    and i&#39;m damn proud of it.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 5:07 a.m. CST

    Reviews so far

    by GalvinBaer

    I would really like to read a few more reviews from people who have not read the books. Because the negative comments we have had so far are from people who don&#39;t like a particular change that PJ has made.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 5:59 a.m. CST

    George Harrison, you shall be missed

    by Drak_Tanner

    Didn&#39;t know where else to post this, but it&#39;s 4 AM and I just found out George Harrison, the most underrated guitar-player ever, died yesterday. The quiet Beatle, the producer of "Life of Brian" and "Time Bandits", and a generous , George will be sorely missed throughout the world. And then there were two...

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6:05 a.m. CST

    Review from someone who hasn&#39;t read the books

    by pravda

    There&#39;s a brief review posted in the newsgroup. Link is - Basically, he thinks it owns the recent SW films and HP.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6:24 a.m. CST

    That&#39;s really sad news about George Harrison

    by wilko185

    He&#39;d been ill for a while, but it&#39;s always a shock somehow, isn&#39;t it? Goodbye George, only 58.... ______ On a happier note .... :) There really aren&#39;t any negative FOTR reviews yet, are there? Just seeing the movie must turn normal people into drooling fanboys ( _____ ____BTW, that review at, by a guy who hasn&#39;t read the book in 20 years (and it shows), has been expanded a bit, with discussion of some of the acting.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6:45 a.m. CST


    by Ioreth

    may you rot in hell or whatever place you believe in (or join Sauron/Morgoth in the void - whatever) Nazgurl is one of my friends, I have know her for over 2 years ... She simply felt she couldn

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6:47 a.m. CST


    by FrodoLives

    Quick answer to the question on Boromir&#39;s death: It is painful. Like you wouldn&#39;t imagine. Orcs everywhere that he&#39;s fighting off and Lurtz firing these HUGE friggin&#39; arrows into him. You won&#39;t believe these arrows! The scene plays wonderfully well. As I said somewhere above: without any words, you KNOW that Boromir is fighting to redeem his soul. He gives up everything, and I mean EVERYTHING to try to save Merry and Pippin. And he does NOT die easily. It is incredibly powerful and moving.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 7:31 a.m. CST

    Normally, I&#39;d go the sarcastic route and ask why someone wou

    by Terry_1978

    I&#39;ve never been a huge Beatles fan(and not cause I&#39;m Yellow Submarine, the movie and the song...a lot of their work was extremely decent...Harrison was part of a phenomenon...the man will be missed, for sure.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 7:36 a.m. CST


    by 2112syrinx

    FIRST: For you intelligent cats that are actually talking back with valid things to say, I wanna say thanks. I have rarely posted to these forums, but I always read them. I enjoy the exchange of ideas and info. Again, mush appreciation. Please excuse the following little rant, but there are apparently some BITCHLY 12 YEAR OLDS THAT NEED SOME ADJUSTMENT... Okay, so WHATS THE STORY? Are you idiots actually serious about comparing SW and LOTR? AND THEN FIGHTING OVER IT? Are you freaking incapable of digging both films? Is this animosity of "The Other Side" just leftover childhood trauma from getting picked last for kickball? GET A GRIP, BITCHES. Star Wars borrows from everything before it. SO DOES EVERYTHING ELSE, LOTR included. The SW films are simple, and they&#39;re GREAT. LOTR is complex, and again, its great. The thing is is that both are exactly what they intend to be. Please, get a grip. You&#39;re making me ashamed to be a geek. Both sets of films will have their flaws...and their strengths. Comparing them to one another is GREAT, it can spark GREAT CONVERSATIONS between thinking, walking upright fully evolved bipeds-But fighting about it and grinding at each other is strictly playground it-shay.I just don&#39;t get this imaginary fence that you cats have constructed...all the SW geeks on this side, all the LOTR geeks on the other side. I LOVE Star Wars. LOVE IT. If it was a chick, I&#39;d buy it candies and satiny undergarments. Same for LOTR. Guys (and girls) please, lets reserve our disdain for something that deserves freddy prinze jr and Keanu. Or the fact that Jay Leno is a household word and practically NOONE knows who Bill Hicks is. Ahhhhhh...I feel SOOO much better.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 8:54 a.m. CST

    George Harrison news has left me in tears

    by jamie sonil

    I know this might be a bit inappropriate to post it here, but I&#39;m just completely shocked; such a big fan (please jerks, not now) I had not even followed that he was actually been that sick.... until it&#39;s too late! gosh... oh gosh... I had always hoped for some sort of a reunion (minus JLennon, although Julian would have been ok.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Nazgul&#39;s nitpicking...

    by rabid_republican

    It&#39;s clear right from the get go that Nazgul is the real deal, a fan very familar with the book. She picks away at what was disappointing story wise, but is pleased with the story overall. Its acting and effects clearly are crowd pleasers. As a matter of fact, if the fans were having doubts as to how&#39;d they&#39;d feel over cut events, I suppose Naz&#39;s review could sum it all. That said, being a relative LOTR novice I can say this just gets better and better.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 9:45 a.m. CST


    by FrodoLives

    I read (and agree with) Nazgurl&#39;s review. I didn&#39;t have a problem with the flight to the ford scene....I thought the horse chase was awesome. But, I would much rather have seen Glorfindel. I also agree with her on the transformation scene with Galadriel (when Frodo offers her the ring). I get what they were trying to do here, but the CGI effect on Galadriel just comes across....wrong, somehow. It doesn&#39;t really fit with the rest of the movie. It&#39;s not horrible, but it just doesn&#39;t fit. My suggestion for everyone is to go in anticipating this. Just deal with it. It&#39;s over in under 30 seconds. In 2 hours 58 minutes of film, I had "problems" with maybe 3 minutes. The other 2 hours 55 minutes were just spectacular.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10 a.m. CST

    Little things

    by Ansai

    Does PJ show up in these movies? I thought he&#39;d been doing that Hitchcock-y &#39;look for me&#39; stuff in his films like Sam Raimir does. What about Dog-eating, ass-kicking priests and Lesbians? He tends to do try and slip one of those in each of his movies as well.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Just read Nazgurl&#39;s review....

    by Lovesong

    Great to hear it from another woman&#39;s perspective - See, guys, another female who misses Glorfindel, and says, "Elves are my passion."! Hahahaha! I really, REALLY want to enjoy this movie, but I find that I&#39;m dreading the Arwen/Ford scene already, and trying not to let it get to me. Durn, it was bad enough when Bakshi substituted Legolas in that scene, but... well, it was LEGOLAS, so I could almost forgive him. But to turn the lovely, gentle, soft-spoken Arwen into a warrior-woman, even for a minute, while at the same time depriving me of the mighty elflord in all his fury? *sob* Somebody must pay! Oh, well... at least I feel a little better after watching the short "making of" show last night on FOX. VERY impressive! The effects and scenery were beautiful, but I tend to focus more on PEOPLE. I was mightily impressed there! I didn&#39;t see much of my sexy prince Legolas (no surprise, since he&#39;s the most underrated character and always has been, IMO), but what I saw was glroious. I&#39;d hoped to see at least a glimpse of Celeborn, too, but as usual, he was completely ignored. One major surprise for me was Elrond - I was more delighted by him than anyone else I saw! My husband almost had to call an ambulance when I got a look at Elrond (not to mention all thos other elves) in armor! DEAR GOD!!!

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10:07 a.m. CST

    Ford woes

    by EvilNight

    I won&#39;t miss Glornfindel all that much. The thing that I do NOT like about the changes is that Frodo is just so much baggage at that point. Frodo&#39;s stand against the Ringwraiths at the ford was one of the best sequences in the films, and it wouldn&#39;t take more than a few moments to put it in. They could have had Arwen stand to fight in the midst of the stream after dropping Frodo off on the far side, and carried on with it exactly as in the books... I just don&#39;t understand why they would miss this opportunity to let Frodo shine for a moment. He was barely alive at that point due to the Morgul-knife, but even that didn&#39;t stop him from showing his defiance of the Ringwraiths.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10:08 a.m. CST


    by europop

    Could you give us a bit more detail about what is wrong with the Galadriel transformation? This is one of the best moments of the book, I hope they haven&#39;t screwed it up! I don&#39;t want ANY part of the movie to be subpar!

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10:12 a.m. CST


    by morpheus

    Actually troll are not ten mtres tall,nd ents re not six metres tall.Treebeard is said to be about fourteen feet that would translate to about four metres.And trolls are said to be similar to the ents in height.The kinda large feets of the hobbits are actually the result of travelling miles on foot.This will result infallen arches and thus making the feet wider.There will be thick calluses on their foot.Some early &#39;apemen&#39; fossils shws some fallen arches and wide feet....

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10:20 a.m. CST


    by Chocky

    I watched the FOX special last night. And I almost felt like crying. Not for any good reason though. I&#39;m an atheist but I&#39;m praying to God that the Moria scene looks better on the big screen than on my big (but old) TV. Gimli was terrible! The makeup, the helmet not fixed straight on his head, his non-dwarvish body outline, and his nearly incomprehensible line, all bad! The way Sean Bean tosses off "we have a cave troll" like he&#39;s straight out of the &#39;90s. The Cave Troll did not look real to me, although I will admit I&#39;ve been prejudiced from the start against this rendering, because my conception of the troll has always been a green scaly Maurice Sendak beast, not an earth elemental. I hated the sounds the orcs made when they died - fakey rat squeaks. Not in the special, but shown elsewhere - the dwarven skeletons that litter Balin&#39;s Tomb look utterly fake. Please God let this not be a cheese-ass fantasy version of Titanic. Please God let my darkest suspicions be wrong. <><><><><> The bow&#39;n&#39;arrow stuff was good, I&#39;ll grant you that. Orlando Bloom seems to have captured the essence of a "young" dynamic elf. I was also highly amused to see Galadriel wearing very unelf like footwear (wellies?) <><><><><> The narrator sucked big time. Where did Fox dig him up - America&#39;s Funniest Home Videos? <><><><><> I will say that I&#39;m impressed with Viggo Mortenson, like everyone else. The guy lived Aragorn, he lived in his clothes in tents and with his horse (which he later bought, and brought to the United States with its trainer). Viggo&#39;s more of a man than Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, and Russell Crowe put together. <><><><><> I&#39;m a LoTR fan but I refuse to take my brain out and kiss PJ&#39;s ass regardless of his output. I&#39;ll like and dislike elements of the movie and I&#39;m not afraid to say it. Y&#39;all can class me as one of the "naysayers" - one could say we&#39;re turning these movies into a religion and anyone who criticizes them has commited blasphemy (there&#39;s quite a few fundamentalists on this board). Well call me a heretic. We can at least agree that the source material will always be great. And regardless of what PJ does to the movies, my favorite scenes are gonna play on in my head MY WAY, green scales and all.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10:25 a.m. CST

    Off topic, as usual

    by Terry_1978

    Did anybody else read anything on the net about Joe Dante doing a live-action Smurfs flick? I&#39;m sure something like that would be blasphemy to us all, but some movie site that I can&#39;t find anymore due to its long ass address had it posted.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10:39 a.m. CST

    Bill the Pony

    by JoeSpawn

    Quick question to Frodo.Lives. Is Bill the Pony in the movie? I thought I saw a glimpse of him in the trailer, but I was wondering if he played a prominant role in the movie. I found the parting of Sam Gamgee from his friend one of the most touching parts of the first book.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Bill the Pony... YES

    by diaphinia

    From what I understood from the NYC presentation on LOTR in Sept., they basically COULDN&#39;T leave Bill out. I&#39;m not sure how prominent he will be, but I know he&#39;s there, and I believe they talked about the difficulties of getting him to the various locales where they shot scenes.----------Of course, this was 2 days before Sep. 11, and I really am not responsible for the brain retntion.--------BTW, the Moria scene on TV WAS ass, was WAY better when we saw it in the presentation, and the buildup was way creepier. Won&#39;t put a specific spoiler here, but you get to see a leck of a lot more buildup to the orcs/troll coming (think creepy silence following a pretty stupid thing done by one of the party), and the actual fight is a bit more enthralling, to say the least. And we saw it on a relatively small screen. But it was something like 6 minutes we saw at the presentation, and everyone in the audience went nuts after it was done. You should not be disappointed. We sure weren&#39;t. And, yep, the rest of the special was pretty much a watered down (WAAAAY watered down) version of what we saw earlier. Although it was fun to see the bungee-jumping Legolas and the nummy-looking swords. According to the producer, the NYC presentation will likely be included on the FoTR DVD. TONS of background & technical information. Apparently, PJ is the MAJOR DVD fan. Expect great things.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 11:02 a.m. CST


    by PeanutGallery

    OBI - Thats no moon, it&#39;s a space station.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Galadriel CGI

    by Khakiass

    I would assume the change people are referring to is an adaptation of what happens in the book. Frodo offers to give her the Ring if she asks for it. She laughs and goes into a little speech where she expresses her temptation. While she does so, her figure is said to grow larger, and she&#39;s backlit, and the ring (one of the Three) shines brighly on her hand. Is that close to what happens on screen?

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 11:12 a.m. CST

    I saw the Fox special

    by MsBigfoot

    OMG it looks so kewl!! And woohoo!! Viggo is a major hottie to boot! I didn&#39;t know they were filming all 3 movies non-stop, talk about a steady paycheck, LOL. But it looks awesome from the looks of the costumes and sets. One little flaw, aren&#39;t hobbits supposed to have hairy feet? Mr Bigfoot has got them all beat, LOL! Ohh btw here is another female going to see LOTR(I hated Titanic).

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 11:14 a.m. CST

    I&#39;ll digitize it, if nobody else does

    by MPG

    Well, someone (I don&#39;t know your username here, but thank you) suggested a reasonably good provider ( to me, so if the special hasn&#39;t appeared on the net by this evening, I&#39;ll digitize some parts of it (not the whole thing - I don&#39;t have a DivX encoder). I&#39;d probably pick the Moria sequence, and perhaps some other interesting stuff. Still, I&#39;d appreciate it if someone else who is able to produce a DivX video could give it a try. I&#39;m sure the satisfaction level among the Tolkien fans would be significantly higher. ;)

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 11:29 a.m. CST

    by Khakiass

    Haven&#39;t you seen the news? Harry P has been recognized as a tool of the devil.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 11:30 a.m. CST

    What records is Harry Potter going to break?

    by rsrobin

    Other than the biggest opening weekend Harry Potter won&#39;t be breaking any records. Its box office has dropped off significantly since Thanksgiving. It may not even make it to $300 million. It won&#39;t come anywhere close to touching Titanic or TPM.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 11:36 a.m. CST

    Galadriel&#39;s tranformation

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    That&#39;s interesting, actually, cos doesn&#39;t Sam have a similar vision of Frodo as a tall figure with a wheel of fire and all the rest of the whistles and bells when Frodo is trying to get Gollum to make his promise? Wild. Did wonder how they would do that, and now I know, with CGI. Oh well.

  • Like rsrobin said, the box office numbers for HP are dropping rapidly already. HP broke the box office record for the first weekend. So what? It opened on more than _twice_ as many screens as Jurassic Park III and made just 30% more than JP3. And which other movies are in the list for the best first weekends? JP3, Rush Hour 2, Mummy Returns, Planet of the Apes, Star Wars: TPM... uhm... notice the pattern? Did these movies live up to the expectations? Did they end up making as much money as one would have expected after the first weekends? In fact, if LotR breaks the first weekends record, I&#39;ll be VERY worried. That record is jinxed. It&#39;s the damn-why-did-I-not-wait-for-the-DVD record.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 11:46 a.m. CST

    Not to go on about box office...

    by Khakiass really, the quality of the film is what matters to e, but I saw this poll and had to link to it:;s own poll shows people thinking LOTR will beat Episode 1 with 15,000 having voted. Funny.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:01 p.m. CST


    by EvilNight

    FoTR has the record for most online ticket sales as of now. Dunno if it&#39;ll break Potter&#39;s 93M record for opening weekend, but I&#39;d say it&#39;s got a better shot than most films will ever have. We all know it&#39;s going to set the record for biggest worldwide opening with ease. Domestic opening record is still in question... as are the total domestic grosses... but I find it interesting that most of the reviewers (male and female alike) even if they had problems with the film, have stated they would see it again in theaters multiple times. That&#39;s what it&#39;ll take to make the big bucks... Moriarty, dammit, review the film already! You&#39;re going to let Harry beat you to it again aren&#39;t you...

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Miami Mofo

    by General Idea

    Why not just catch the U2 show in town here on Sunday? Oh and Chocky, you&#39;re crazy man. I thought the Moria scene looked great. A little too choppy and edited maybe, but that&#39;s likely because of the editing just for the Fox show... Anyone who thinks the Cave Troll looks too CGI, I don&#39;t know what to say. It&#39;s closer than just about anything I&#39;ve ever seen.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:17 p.m. CST


    by FrodoLives

    OK...more detail on the Galadriel transormation. How to describe it? The dialog (as is much of the dialog in the movie) is almost straight from the book. That part was great. The CGI effect that I had a problem with had Galadriel sort of go into a kind of "witch mode"....I don&#39;t really know how to describe it. Cate Blanchett was morphed into this CGI version of an elf-queen/witch. Very odd. The main problem that I had with it (as I said before) wasn&#39;t that the CGI was sub-par, but just that the effect...the LOOK of Galadriel at that point didn&#39;t really match the rest of the movie. It just sort of stood out. I&#39;m probably making too big of a point of this, but it is really one of the few things that I can remember not loving in the movie. For the person asking about Bill...yes, he&#39;s in it. It&#39;s almost a cameo role, however. Which is kinda how it should be. As much as you may love Bill in the books (and I did), he&#39;s in no way key to the plotline. He doesn&#39;t play a pivotal role in moving the Fellowship to their goal. You see him with the Fellowship as they travel from Rivendell to Caradhras (a series of landscape shots) and you see him as they approach the doorway into Moria. The brief scene in which Aragorn says that he must be set free (and Sam does have a line or two here and gets kinda emotional) is the only mention of Bill by name. Frankly, I thought it was kind of a cool way to work in a favorite (but non-essential) character.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:51 p.m. CST

    box office predictions

    by Jedi3335

    I have a feeling htat LOTR is gonna end up in the top 2-3 grossing movies of all time. If u look at Titanic, that didnt break any records for opening weekend, but still went on to gross more than any other movie. In the end, the quality of hte movie will determine how much it gross&#39;s. Plus, LOTR&#39;s international following is almost bigger than its domestic following. If it doesnt break any domestic records, it will sure as hell make more money world wide than any movie ever!

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:59 p.m. CST

    More on Harry Potter B.O.

    by rsrobin

    I found this little blurb on Analysts have detected a significant slowdown in ticket sales for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer&#39;s Stone, leading many to conclude that it won&#39;t hit $200 million until this weekend, at least 15 days after its premiere. Days after its release, many of the same analysts were forecasting that the film was likely to reach that mark in 10 days, tying the record set by Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace. Today&#39;s (Friday) Wall Street Journal quoted Warner Bros. insiders as saying that there&#39;s a "slight chance" that the film could be knocked out of the top spot at the box office by 20th Century Fox&#39;s Behind Enemy Lines (see blow) this weekend. If not, the Journal added, "it surely will fall next Friday to Ocean&#39;s Eleven."

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 1:10 p.m. CST

    last night&#39;s Moria clip

    by mtoast

    Having worked on some "behind the scenes" FX shows, I can tell you guys that movie clips are significantly chopped up and re-edited in these kinds of programs. I won&#39;t bore you with the details as to why -- but rest assured, based on the comments of those who&#39;ve seen it, I&#39;m sure this clip runs quite a bit differently in the film.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 1:24 p.m. CST


    by diablo muerte

    alas, will cgi ever look real? did you see that big ass ogre thing that crashed through the door on the special last night? wow. every time a movie like this comes out everyone has the knee jerk reaction to praise the cgi as groundbreaking. but, is it really? its never looked real with the exception of select scenes of jurassic park. in ending, i leave you with this question of unbelievable lust controlled fancy: have they ever surpassed the realism of effects of The Thing with cgi? i think not. signing out here, are your boots on cowboy? they were tied on *snicker*

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 1:58 p.m. CST

    Ebonic Plague... I wholeheartedly disagree

    by Hawq

    Mr. Plague- I guess we just have two vastly different viewpoints about pictures vs. words. Have you ever heard "A picture is worth a thousand words"? I agree with it. I mean, I&#39;m a very creative and artistic person, but I&#39;m also realistic about my own limitations. I don&#39;t claim to be better than the combined effort of a top-notch film production. I&#39;m not talking about a crappy 1950&#39;s low-budget production, I&#39;m talking about good movies with talented artists utilizing modern technology. When you read a scene in LotR, do you you really picture EVERYTHING in your head? For example, reading a scene in Rivendell- would you picture all of that cool elven design that renowned fantasy artists spent months coming up with? How about the buildings- do you design them yourself in your imagination, better than Alan Lee&#39;s imagination? (Even if you just picture whatever is on the book cover, it&#39;s still not YOUR imagination.) Can you picture the facial expressions and nuances of Tolkien&#39;s characters better than the interpretive performances of GREAT actors like Ian McKellen and Ian Holm? Would you have a brilliant original sountrack playing in your head that you personally composed? When you read about the drums pounding in Moria, do you really hear the powerful sound in your head while reading the whole scene? Well, I don&#39;t. ... About the unseen is better in horror thing- if they didn&#39;t show the creature in Alien, would you have imagined something more horrific in your head? Really? Even better than what came out of H.R. Geiger&#39;s twisted head? If they didn&#39;t show the alien&#39;s second set of dripping jaws tearing through that guy&#39;s skull, would you have pictured something worse in your imagination? Remember when the little girl in the Exorcist was repeatedly stabbing her bloody crotch with a crucifix, shouting "Your mother sucks cocks in Hell!"? If they just implied something very bad happened without showing it, would you have instantly come up with something more gruesome in your head? Even with those disgusting stabbing sounds? If so, you are one sick puppy... And how about the awesome futuristic vision of L.A. in Blade Runner- would you have imagined something more creative than Syd Mead&#39;s concept, just from reading a story? Well, if your answer to all these questions is "yes", then you are a true Renaissance Man. In fact, you must have the greatest singular artistic mind in history. I think a WELL MADE film can cause you to use your head even MORE than a book. Like when you see a character you&#39;ve followed through the story, that is thinking in silence at a pivitol point in the plot. Without a narrator telling you everything going through his head, you really use your own imagination to consider what he must be going through. All things considered, I think film is the highest form of art. Respond to that! Well, I could go on all day giving examples, but alas, I must work.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Um, Alphahelix, whaddya mean there&#39;s no cave troll in lotr??

    by wilko185

    Like Chocky, when reading the book I also imagined the cave troll as being green and scaly, BECAUSE IT WAS. In the chamber of Mazarbul, Gandalf looks out the door and tells the Company about the orcs, and "....there is something else there. A great cave-troll I think, or more than one. There is no hope of escape that way." Later, a troll tries to force its way into the chamber, until Frodo stabs it in the foot: "A huge arm and shoulder, with a dark skin of greenish scales, was thrust through the widening gap. Then a great, flat, toeless foot was forced through below." That&#39;s as much as we see of the cave troll, until at the bridge two trolls put down stone slabs to cross a fissure in the floor. ____ However,unlike Chocky, apart from the color/texture of the film troll I thought it looked excellent, if a little too big (How the hell did Pippin off one in RoTK?) ____ BTW there&#39;s some nice behind-the-scenes downloads available at,0 including a new one on Chris Lee. Enjoy :)

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 2:46 p.m. CST

    Q u e s t F o r T h e R i n g O n T h e I n t e r n e t ? ? ?

    by RedCapitalist

    I can&#39;t believe that there isn&#39;t anywhere to download that two-minute Moria clip that was on FOX&#39;s Quest for the Ring last night? HOW HARD CAN IT BE??? Whenever there is a freakin 30 second Piece O&#39; Crap TV preview a MILLION people make it available on the net....and now we got NOTHING when people had access to a freaking continuous (more or less) clip from the MORIA sequence. WHAT THE FRUIT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE???

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 2:54 p.m. CST

    hey everyone

    by JoeMama420

    Hello all - I wrote the review that was up a few days ago and there has been so much talkback and I&#39;ve been thinking about the film so much since I saw it that I wanted to answer questions and people might have perhaps offer some more perspective on general matters pertaining to the overall feel and atmosphere of the film. I&#39;ll be here all day so fire away!

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 2:59 p.m. CST



    while watching the special last night i was wondering how the hell Jackson was going to pull this off. And then i saw the coolest fucking clip i have ever seen. PJ nailed the way everything is supposed to look and feel, and the fx are crazy! Plus, i think gimli is going to turn to be one of the coolest characters in the film, hes just like i imagined him, a badass short dude with axes.that whole scene is just going to be nutty ,everything looks so friggin good.THIS MOVIE IS GOING TO ROCK-------------------TO bad i have a fucking final at school that morning of the 19th- i hope they have a midnight showing around here. oh ,and this goes out to LORETH-YOU NON-AMERICANS SUCK

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:02 p.m. CST


    by fun guy

    I&#39;m taking a week&#39;s vacation beginning Dec. 19, and I&#39;m going to do nothing but eat, sleep and go to many different theatres for FOTR, over and over and over for seven days straight. Then, I plan to see it for the next few months as many times as possible in my free time. I&#39;m sure I&#39;m not the only person making such plans. This is why LOTR will make more money than Harry, or Titanic or Star Wars. Our geek factor surpasses all other franchises hands down.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:07 p.m. CST

    HEY JOE MAMA....heh.... QUESTION



  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Last Alliance

    by JoeMama420

    Contrary to what my review may have suggested, I&#39;m not exactly a fanboy. I love the books and I last read them about three years ago, but I&#39;m still rusty on certain areas, even though I&#39;ve been going back over the Trilogy trying to brush up. Refresh my memory about The Last Alliance and I&#39;ll glady answer the question.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Hey JoeMama

    by wilko185

    I haven&#39;t read all the spoiler reviews (including the one above) so this may have been covered, but ____ Without going into too much detail, what&#39;s the deal with the moth? There was talk earlier of a moth carrying a message from Gandalf while he&#39;s trapped on Orthanc to the eagle. Is this true? Does it work (or is it twee and Dr Doolittle-ish)? I take it Radagast is out :(. ___ More generally, does Saruman&#39;s expanded role change the pacing of the story, and does it ruin things any if we know from very early on that Saruman has turned to evil? (Indeed, do we get the impression that Saruman was ever a good guy, head of the White Council?) ___ Thanks in advance

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:19 p.m. CST

    not to step on any toes by answering questions...

    by JoeMama420

    Btw, to FrodoLives, I definitely don&#39;t want to steal any of the spotlight or anything because you&#39;ve been doing a great job answering questions (I just read your responses and I definitely agree with most everything you&#39;ve said)...just thought I could jump in and offer a different take - JM

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Ebonic Plague- Oh well.

    by Hawq

    I guess we will continue to disagree, but I&#39;m sure we&#39;ll both enjoy this movie. It&#39;s all personal preference anyway. I do agree that films cannot go into the same amount of depth as books, but that&#39;s merely a limitation of time and money. It&#39;s probably why the best movie adaptations come from short stories. I&#39;m a very visually oriented person, and I love movies with great visuals to accompany the story. And since you brought up the iconic visuals in comic books, how about Bram Stoker&#39;s Dracula? Talk about iconic gothic images! It&#39;s chock full of &#39;em! Not to mention really great music and sound. That&#39;s why I&#39;ll be first in line to buy the Superbit DVD when it comes out December 11th, to watch on my 50" High Defintion TV! I&#39;ve said it before, if you love movies, and you make decent money, go buy one! The Superbit DVD editions fill the entire disc to the brim with nothing but maximum video and audio information, which means the information transferred is almost twice that of regular DVD&#39;s! The image is jaw-dropping on The Fifth Element&#39;s Superbit edition. (Another movie where the visual and aural artistry is mind-boggling, and which no literal description could live up to, in my opinion.) I can&#39;t wait to get my hands on the extended directer&#39;s cut of FotR. BTW- I know you got your name from a Jerry Springer line on "Son of the Beach", so don&#39;t be actin&#39; too cultured.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:29 p.m. CST

    wilko185/the moth/Saruman

    by JoeMama420

    There are several sequences involving long swooping camera movements through the drudges of the Orcs and Uruk-hai working outside of Orthanc and towards the end of one, the camerea picks up on a moth/butterfly that slowly floats up to a dejected Gandalf sitting in the open air at the top of the tower. It is definitely not done in any cheezy, Dr. Doolittle rears up slightly in his hand and whispers in its own language...slightly eerie. The eagle comes a bit later and whisks Gandalf away as jumps off the tower before Saruman can finish him off. Regarding Saruman, there is (I thought) an evil glint in his eye from the first time he is introduced and there is never really any indication of subterfuge...he speaks of joining forces with Mordor pretty much right off the bat. This doesn&#39;t really detract from the story at all, though. It really is like a highlight reel of all of the best moments with some shifting of some story elements around to make it more screen friendly, but while you might miss out on some of your personal favorite details, as I said, it never once detracts from the FILM.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:32 p.m. CST

    liv tyler

    by fun guy

    I know I&#39;m not alone, but after watching Quest last night, I have even deeper feelings that Liv Tyler is really kinda butt-ugly

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:40 p.m. CST

    Joe Mama

    by FrodoLives

    Hey Joe! Whaddya know? Answer away at the questions....I appreciate the help! The Last Alliance, by the way, was the alliance of men and Elves that "defeated" Sauron....they went over that in the prologue to the movie.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:50 p.m. CST

    All Your TBs Are In No Particular Order

    by RMcCallum

    Geez, you would think by now there would of been a way to keep this TBs from getting out of order. Maybe it&#39;s time for AICN to go the route? Time to start a new LOTR thread on here because no way, no how is someone going to sift through this mess... back to work on EP2 for me.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 4:07 p.m. CST

    Thxs JoeMama

    by wilko185

    That sounds ok actually. I&#39;m still not sure I like all I&#39;ve heard about the changes to Saruman&#39;s story arc eg his death, orc pods, the duel w/ Gandalf (BTW were there any large spiked wheels at Isengard, like the one he apparently may get impaled upon? Just a thought). _____ One more Joe? (Or Frodolives, who has just managed to post at the bottom of the TB...).____ How is the relationship between Gimli and Legolas portrayed, or Gimli and elves generally? In the book it starts off with mutual hostility at the council of Elrond (ok that was Gimli&#39;s dad Gloin), until after Gimli meets Galadriel ("he looked into the heart of an enemy and saw there love and understanding"). She is a Noldor and therefore more "in tune" with the dwarvish mind-set than the other elves (her husband Celeborn, Legolas etc are woodelves) and there is a change to respect and later friendship between Legolas and Gimli. So, is this handled well? Is it played for laughs ever? I don&#39;t really want to see a buddy-cop type scenario (Tango and Cash, 48 hrs) with them taking cheap shots at each other, but then coming together in racial harmony. I realise you can&#39;t fully answer this just from the first film. ____ Oh yeah, I heard Celeborn is a bit of dork, but in the book he&#39;s a doormat really, so that won&#39;t matter too much :) ____ now where will *this* post land.....?

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 4:25 p.m. CST


    by virkku

    What is wrong with you people? If the Moria clip would have been shown here in Finland, it would have taken me less than 1 hour to put it on internet. The only link so far is the vivisphere link and it&#39;s EXTREMELY slow.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 4:35 p.m. CST

    Terve, Virkku

    by MPG

    The main reason why I haven&#39;t taken care of it yet is that I was looking for a provider where I could place the video. Now I have found one, but I have a life (believe it or not), i.e. a job, so I can&#39;t take care of it before I get home this evening. Have some patience, you&#39;ll still see it before Dec 19. ;)

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 4:37 p.m. CST

    moria mpg clip is on morpheus (?)

    by wilko185 ____ I don&#39;t have morpheus, so can&#39;t check it out myself....

  • He&#39;s always damn fast with calling people "moron" and "retard" or "dumbass" when he actually doesn&#39;t have any clue about the books. This "there was no cave troll in the book" thing is only the tip of the cluelessness iceberg. I am still waiting for him to say where Arwen is referenced in the "Book of Lost Tales", as he claimed in another talkback. Alphahelix is the best reason why Cliff&#39;s Notes should be prohibited. -------------------------------- And again, again, again, Harry, when are you going to fix the talkbacks? The order is messed up again!

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 4:57 p.m. CST


    by BH|Sauron

    The moria scenes ruled, even on my BIG tv. Everything you said you hated I thought ruled. We must be brotheres :P Squeeky orcs? I like squeeky, what other sounds could they make? Would you honestly say the clip was better if they made farting noises? Boromirs line rules. You gotta understand that this guy has seen that kind of shit, cave trolls and the like all his life. He&#39;s not freaked out like a n00b would be. Anyways, keep lookin for holes, Im sure geeks like me will be happy to patch them. Bottom line is this folks. If there was a tragic accident and all copies of TFOTR were somehow destroyed:( The Tolkien world would still be effected by the film(s). PJs work has been injected into the tolkien community, and the pre movie hype has made it as healthy as ever. Thanks PJ :) YOU RULE D00denator :)

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 5:03 p.m. CST

    HP vs. LOTR

    by Numenor

    Man, I wantd to keep from mentioning this stupid competition, but I can&#39;t help it this time. The reason Harry Potter is starting to taper off is because it&#39;s a kid&#39;s movie. Although many adults love the story, it&#39;s just not something gripping enough to warrant going over and over again. What parent, after braving a theater full of screaming children, sitting there for almost three hours, making 4 trips to the restroom with their kids and missing half the movie, is going to go for a repeat viewing? HP will make shitloads on DVD and video, but will not be a factor to get in the way of FOTR. People are going to want to go back over and over again to see a gripping, well put together story that obviously was made with heart and soul and not simply to make a buck. And then, they&#39;ll tell their friends and family to go see it. Anyone remember what happened with The Sixth Sense? These two movies and even their books aren&#39;t even in the same boat. One is pop culture, the other is based on real scholarship and a developed history. Hell, Britney Spears makes money, but that doesn&#39;t mean she can sing for a hill of shit.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 5:12 p.m. CST


    by Big Papa

    This is a question for Frodo.Lives or anyone else who&#39;s seen the movie and happens to visit this board. Could you please tell me exactly how Merry and Pippin wind up accompanying Frodo to Rivendell? I heard they&#39;re running from Farmer Maggot and the black rider and are sort of "thrown in" together. Ack. I don&#39;t like that. So, they&#39;re accompanying Frodo only because they HAVE to? Like refugees? They&#39;re not going with him because he&#39;s their FRIEND and they WANT to "stick to him through thick and thin, to the bitter end?"

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 5:13 p.m. CST

    Ebonic Plague- Oh well, whatever, nevermind

    by Hawq

    My post got buried, so here it is again- MR. PLAGUE, I guess we will continue to disagree, but I&#39;m sure we&#39;ll both enjoy this movie- It&#39;s all personal preference anyway. I do agree that films cannot go into the same amount of depth as books, but that&#39;s merely a limitation of time and money. It&#39;s probably why the best movie adaptations come from short stories. I&#39;m a very visually oriented person, and I love movies with great visuals to accompany the story. And since you brought up the iconic visuals in comic books, how about Bram Stoker&#39;s Dracula? Talk about iconic gothic images! It&#39;s chock full of &#39;em! Not to mention really great music and sound. That&#39;s why I&#39;ll be first in line to buy the Superbit DVD when it comes out December 11th, to watch on my 50" High Defintion TV! I&#39;ve said it before, if you love movies, and you make decent money, go buy a 16x9 HDTV! The Superbit DVD editions fill the entire disc to the brim with nothing but maximum video and audio information, which means the information transferred is almost twice that of regular DVD&#39;s! The image is amazing on The Fifth Element&#39;s Superbit edition. (Another movie where the visual and aural artistry is mind-boggling, and which no literal description could live up to, in my opinion.) I can&#39;t wait to get my hands on the extended directer&#39;s cut of FotR. BTW- I know you got your name from a Jerry Springer line on "Son of the Beach", so don&#39;t be actin&#39; too cultured.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 5:24 p.m. CST

    Where is the moria fotage?

    by GalvinBaer

    Please, Please, Please can someone put the moria fotage on the net. Harry get your butt in gear!!!

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 5:33 p.m. CST


    by FrodoLives

    Ok...why do Merry and Pippin join in with Frodo and Sam? Originally, it&#39;s pure chance in the film. They (literally) bump into Frodo and Sam while running from Farmer Maggot. They know each other (obviously) and are friends. Merry and Pippin then fall in with Frodo and Sam as they run into the Black Riders. They flee with them to Bree and are then caught up in the whole story. Is it different from the book? Yes. But it still works when you see it. They still have the commitment to Frodo. That&#39;s without doubt. Especially when you see the end. As for the relationship between dwarves and;s strained, to say the least. Pretty much exactly as in the books. Open hostility at times, disdain, etc. Between Gimli and Legolas in specific, it&#39;s not played up all that much. Strained (like Boromir and Aragorn) at first, but then a growing respect. Again, nothing blatant, just general feelings. On a side note, I&#39;ve just managed to find time to watch the Fox shows you a few VERY brief, tantalizing glimpses of the movie, but if you haven&#39;t seen the movie, I think they&#39;re probably too deeply embedded in "pre-shots" to be noticed. If you pick out all the "polished" shots from the special, you&#39;ve got some of the scenes from the movie.....hard to explain. Once you see the movie, you&#39;ll understand. The special is NOTHING compared to the movie. You have no idea what&#39;s in store for you on the 19th!!

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 5:40 p.m. CST

    Cave Troll CGI and FX in general

    by Hawq

    I saw the cave troll, and thought it looked pretty damn good. Look at the CGI towards the end of The Matrix, (the most recent popular geek movie) that CGI really sucks! The thing that looks wrong in alot of CGI animation is the MOVEMENT, which is the most dynamic and important aspect of animation. Alot of it is way too fluid. From what I could see last night, they got the movement RIGHT. But, it is hard to tell from a tv screen showing an edited scene with bad sound. Also, the entire tomb area is shown in low-contrast, almost monochromatic light, so maybe that&#39;s why so many people say it&#39;s "obvious CGI". Lighting is the other thing they often get wrong (See ILM&#39;s Mummy movies for all things wrong with CGI) I still think the most realistic CGI creatures were the raptors (especially in the kitchen) from Jurassic Park, and that was one of the first movies to really use it! That shows how much difference the effort of people doing the animation makes. ****The one thing that has the most ability to ruin the next two LotR movies is: CGI GOLLUM. If they get him wrong, it could be freakin&#39; disastrous, because he&#39;s in a very large portion of TTT and RotK.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 5:42 p.m. CST

    Locations for FULL VHS-Quality RIP of "Quest for the Ring"

    by EvilNight

    If you are usenet-capable, hit alt.binaries.multimedia, it&#39;s up there now as a 225MB mpeg. VHS quality, not bad at all, definitely made from a VHS tape done by a fan. I&#39;m pushing it out to Morpheus right now. IF YOU DOWNLOAD IT YOU GODDAMNED WELL BETTER MIRROR IT FOR A WHILE TO GET IT SPREAD AROUND BETTER! Don&#39;t be selfish. If you aren&#39;t usenet capable, fer chrissakes man, get that way, you don&#39;t know what you are missing! Save the questions, I&#39;m not a help center. Use google and figure it out.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 5:57 p.m. CST

    Size matters

    by BH|Sauron

    We all have most of the scenes that made up 90% of the special on our hard drives. What I want is a clip of moria and just moria. Ive got a file splitter, but dont want to dl 250 megs, (even on cable) Just the Moria clip mam :P

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6 p.m. CST

    Who cares about the dumb comments made by the dumb chick

    by Russman

    Her eyes looked weird! Ewwww! Go play with your dollies little girl!

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6:03 p.m. CST

    Agreement with Frodo Lives

    by JoeMama420

    I wholeheartedly agree with Frodo Lives...the special is as much the tip of the iceberg as it could possibly be. It&#39;s simply the nature of the beast that PJ had to leave out many of infinite nuances that are in the book. No, Sam doesn&#39;t babble giddily about elves, Bill the Pony has about three seconds of screen time, the Gimili/Legolas relationship is not the focal point of the Fellowship&#39;s screen time, etc. etc. I mean, there wasn&#39;t even enough time for a two minute travel montage (which is that main root of the intial issues I had with the just jumps from one major event to the next...but what I orginally though was a pacing issue, others who hadn&#39;t read the book said the exact opposite...that it moved along just right) between when Frodo leaves and when the group reaches Moria. As far as the Last Alliance, this is addressed (not directly, though, only visually) in the Prologue, which is bad ass. It looks as if Isuldur, Elrond, and the army will be victorius, and then Sauron steps on to the scene, wearing the one ring and wielding a wicked mace, and start knocking people 100 feet into the air ten at a time. Although I enjoyed Bree, Weathertop, the horse chase, and everything else up until, I was not as blown away as the first scene until they arrived at Moria. So even if Pippin and Merry just happen to be in the neighborhood when Sam and Frodo are on their way, they still come along because they are friends...and personally, I think their characters are actually BETTER in the film than they are in the book. And that&#39;s the beauty of this film...PJ couldn&#39;t include as many direct details as he wanted to, I&#39;m sure, but he managed to inject enough subtleties and subtext for seasoned readers to pick up on while simultaneiously preventing those little subtlteties and subtext from becoming direct exposition and most likely hindering the film with people who are unfamiliar with the story. Even if every detail isn&#39;t there (and everyone who&#39;s read the book is bound to be disappointed at one point or with it), PJ has UNDOUBTEDLY CREATED the life-force and atmosphere of Middle Earth and all the wonder and glory of the Fellowship of the Ring while still adding his own visual flare. That, to me, transcends any fault or missing detail and makes for an unbelieveable cinematic experience.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6:14 p.m. CST

    to Alpha Helix

    by Riboflavin

    I don&#39;t know if anybody corrected you before, but I will anyway, the cave troll was mentioned in the book, not only that, there were in fact two. "Two great trolls appeared; they bore great slabs of stone, and flung them down to serve as gangways over the fire."

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6:32 p.m. CST

    Dwarf from D&D looked better!

    by Chocky

    I&#39;m sorry, but my antidepressant medication is preventing me from being irrationally obsessed with anything anymore. So I can&#39;t watch the friggin&#39; Moria footage and NOT ignore Gimli&#39;s suckiness. The dwarf from Dungeons & Dragons looked better, fer chrissakes! <><><><><> OK and the story changes are out of hand. A theater is doing play versions of LoTR in Chicago, with a small cast and tiny budget - but they do just about every frickin line in the book, word for word. By God I&#39;ll take a glow-in-the-dark hamster ball Palantir over some CGI&#39;d effect any day! <><><><><> I am aware that I am completely insane, Zoloft or no Zoloft, and I hope we can all have a hearty laugh at myself once the movie comes out. It&#39;s been my reason for living for the past year, and I will be very sad if the movie is as bad as I am now suspecting it to be. But fear not New Line, I&#39;m still buying up merch like a good little geek.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Question for Frodo.Lives

    by Khandiguy

    I&#39;m a first time poster here....just wanted to ask a quick question about Boromirs death. Does Boromirs death coincide with the part in the Soundtrack where the boy begins to sing????

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6:44 p.m. CST

    EvilNight: Usenet SUCKS....I can&#39;t find ANYTHING

    by RedCapitalist

    What the fruit have you done??? You tease me by saying that I can access Quest for the Ring, and when I go to UseNet, there IS NO "alt.binaries.multimedia".... and don&#39;t talk to me about Morpheus...because I can&#39;t use it due to Firewall problems.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6:48 p.m. CST

    Thankyou JoMama

    by GalvinBaer

    Thanks for describing something that I have been wondering about that is the impact that Sauron has on the Last Alliance prologue. "knocking people 100 feet into the air ten at a time", can&#39;t wait to see this.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6:50 p.m. CST

    Answer on Boromir&#39;s Death and Thanks to Joe

    by FrodoLives

    Bormir&#39;s death....You know, I honestly don&#39;t remember. I don&#39;t THINK so, but I could very easily be wrong on this one.....Joe Mama: VERY well put. Everyone out there that&#39;s doubting and worrying about scenes that have been left out and nuances of the book that aren&#39;t in the movie, please try to pay attention to what (from what I&#39;ve seen) everyone that has seen the film is saying: Peter Jackson has managed to embody the essence of LOTR in the movie. Does it diverge in various areas from the text of the book? Yes. Does it still remain true to the vision and to the "spirit" of the books? Most definitely, yes. You get the same feeling watching this movie as you do reading the books. Joe couldn&#39;t have said it better above.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 7:18 p.m. CST


    by Kharan

    Some questions: What role do Gil-Galad and Elendil have in the prologue? Isildur is apparently going to be the King of Men, having Narsil and all, so where does that leave Elendil (I know he&#39;s been cast)? In general, is Isildur presented as the King of All Men, ruling the Rohirrim, Haradrim and the Easterlings? And is he the last King in the films (in the books there were some 30 kings of Gondor after Anarion)? I hope not, since these would seriously dumb down the rich background and history of ME.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 7:21 p.m. CST

    What you guys (FL and JM) are saying is pushing all the right bu

    by wilko185

    Thank you. I am now 99.9% confident, and rising, of a very good film. I still want to know some details though....So, another little question: JoeM said about the "initial issues I had with the just jumps from one major event to the next". The story could be nicely "anchored" with a map. Is there one? Will non-readers have any idea of the scale of the quest, and how far along the quest is? A map would help show why they can&#39;t go round the mountains, where Isengard is in relation etc. _____ Related question: How is the passage of time shown? The whole quest takes about a year, but it could seem like a couple of months on film. They start in Sept, leave Rivendell in Dec., leave Lorien in the Spring etc. Is this evident in the film (northern hemisphere seasons of course)? ___ [Alternatively, does Gimli&#39;s beard grow a few inches during the film? That would do it too :)]

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 7:47 p.m. CST

    Passage of Time

    by JoeMama420

    I guess that would be my major nitpick with the film: there really aren&#39;t any major indications of how much time has passed between events (they show the map in the beginning but don&#39;t refer back to it if I recall). You can assume that they are travel-weary, but there is never anything directly suggestive of just how long they have been travelling, with the possible exception of the Hobbits looking absolutely beat at the end of a day. This is what I mean by calling it a "highlight reel." Immediately after walking out of the theater I was somewhat disappointed with that. But when I talked to people who hadn&#39;t read the book, they had no qualms whatsoever. As I said, those who have read the books will know the true amount of time that passes and those who haven&#39;t can either assume or just ignore it completely and be happy just sitting there drooling over the lush visuals. A few more tidbits: as many others have said, the scene in which the Fellowship exits Moria minus Gandalf and completely defeated and weary is amazing. It was the first time (well, the scene between Aragorn and Arwen is also very touching) I felt a strong emotional bond with the characters. It is shot beautifully and the emotion really comes accross. Really good stuff. In the scene with snow, watch for Legolas walking on top of the snow while every else trudges through chest deep...I missed it and was severely disappointed when I found out...once again, the nuances are there without someone saying "Oh, notice how light of foot the Elves are!" I haven&#39;t said this yet and others have touched on it, but Orlando Bloom/Legolas is a total BAD ASS. He shoots orcs through the cracks of the doors in Moria, he is most definitey the biggest pimp daddy in the cave-troll scene, and with the Uruk-hai at the end, well, let&#39;s just say he fights only with the bow in extremely close quarters and does it very convincingly.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 8:12 p.m. CST

    I can&#39;t say it enough... THANK-YOU FRODO.LIVES!

    by Butch_McTavish

    Really, you are to be commended. You&#39;ve gone out of your way to help answer the myriad of questions we&#39;ve all put to you. You&#39;ve been very patient and attentive and have genuinely helped to defuse at least some of my own trepidation. Your words are genuine and you have the generosity & hospitality of a hobbit. Again, thanks : ).

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 8:14 p.m. CST


    by EvilNight

    I chopped out the Cave Troll and Moria sequence from the damn video. It&#39;s exactly 2 minutes long and 20MB in size, fairly decent quality, but a bit dark. Now, where in the blinding blue fsck do I send it to get it out on the ring sites? It&#39;s not like New Line doesn&#39;t want this out ya know, this is pure gravy promo for them. Anybody got a mirror site or FTP they are willing to put up? Perhaps I should send Xoanon an email...

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 8:20 p.m. CST


    by RedCapitalist

    CONTACT Xoanan NOW!!! He has connections....Meanwhile, I have a 10mb connection - you want to e-mail it to me??? har har har (I AM half-way serious)

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 9:07 p.m. CST

    Action vs. Spirit

    by ArPharazon

    I&#39;m a bit disturbed by the folks who believe PJ compromised the soul of FOTR for its action sequences. Personally, the scene that had the most profound effect on me from the Fox Special was NOT the Moria scene (although I loved the Moria scene). The part that got to me, and seeing it on film brought the emotion to a new level, was when Gandalf arrived in Hobbiton and went down to one knee to embrace his old friend, Bilbo. That is poignant. That is why film can take a piece of literature to a different level. So, don&#39;t accuse PJ of giving up the spirit of FOTR just so he can get in the battles, costumes and effects. It seems to me PJ did just fine capturing the characters and their emotions. Movies cannot survive on action, costumes, effects and CGI alone and thank God PJ understood that.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 9:09 p.m. CST

    Action vs. Spirit

    by ArPharazon

    I&#39;m a bit disturbed by the folks who believe PJ compromised the soul of FOTR for its action sequences. Personally, the scene that had the most profound effect on me from the Fox Special was NOT the Moria scene (although I loved the Moria scene). The part that got to me, and seeing it on film brought the emotion to a new level, was when Gandalf arrived in Hobbiton and went down to one knee to embrace his old friend, Bilbo. That is poignant. That is why film can take a piece of literature to a different level. So, don&#39;t accuse PJ of giving up the spirit of FOTR just so he can get in the battles, costumes and effects. It seems to me PJ did just fine capturing the characters and their emotions. Movies cannot survive on action, costumes, effects and CGI alone and thank God PJ understood that.

  • <RANT ON>From all the small changes I have heard about, I know that the purists will hate this movie. And you know what? I have no pity for them. Someone who is a purist when it comes to something that should be purely _enjoyed_ deserves to be tortured by a non-purist adaption. How anyone could allow bone-headedness to destroy a possibly great experience for them is beyond me. There are many examples for that in this talkbacks. But purism and fundamentalism seem to be a part of Human culture - definitely not the best part, and definitely not the part that allowed us to get down from these damn trees. -------------------------------- But hey, I used to be a purist myself. I used to play on a serious Tolkien roleplaying game on the Internet (not one of those where you run around, kill Orcs and get experience points, but one where you actually interact with people to recreate Tolkien&#39;s world). At one point I even had to manage a whole culture (Rivendell) with more than a 100 players there. It was my task to make sure that everything is "thematically" correct. I had to kick out Hobbits that arrived in Rivendell on a monthly basis (because they figured it would be fun to follow in Frodo&#39;s footsteps) and tell them that its unthematic, stuff like that. At some point I realized that even though there was nothing that violated Tolkien&#39;s spirit in my culture, it was dull. The utterly strict recreation of Tolkien&#39;s world down to the last comma and semicolon had choked any kind of real creativity and any surprises. Yes, there was still fun to be had, but it was interesting to see how the fun increased dramatically when a certain amount of "theme violation" was introduced. It was like adding a new spice to a well-known dish. If you add too much, you spoil it, but just a little makes the whole thing great and fresh. It took me more than a year to figure that out in my admin position on that roleplaying game, and I admire Peter Jackson for getting that point without such an experience. Now what is the point of this rant? The point is that, like I said, I don&#39;t pity the purists for having a sad day on Dec 19, they deserve it for not allowing themselves to enjoy a perfectly good movie, and anyone who goes "Boohoo, they didn&#39;t follow the holy scriptures!" is a whiny dork who deserves to have their nutsacks bitten off by a one-winged Balrog.</RANT OFF>

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 9:39 p.m. CST


    by FrodoLives

    First off, for those expressing their thanks....don&#39;t mention it! I&#39;m at least partially able to relive this movie in my mind by going over it with you people. Anything to pass the time before I can see it again. Trust me on this one, I honestly feel that it&#39;s harder waiting now, having seen it. That probably pisses a lot of you off, but it&#39;s the God&#39;s honest truth. I cannot WAIT to get my butt back into that theater seat! I am SO glad that I&#39;ve got a premium theater rented out for opening night (leather seats, beer and one of the best sound systems in the country!). --------------- Anyway....on Isildur, Elendil, etc.: The entire sequence is part of the Prologue. As such, you&#39;re not going to get the kind of depth and full history that you&#39;re looking for. This is a brief "cliff note" version to get non-readers up to speed. It&#39;s handled wonderfully well. Isildur sees his father fall before Sauron, rushes to his side, picks up his sword to confront Sauron....the sword breaks and, as the fatal blow is coming from Sauron, Isildur swings the broken sword and severs most of Sauron&#39;s fingers....the Ring falls...and you see one of the coolest "death" scenes ever. The entire battlefield (thousands of Elves and Men) knocked flat by the force of Sauron&#39;s passing.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 9:57 p.m. CST


    by FrodoLives

    Hey Ender! I&#39;ve read over (kinda) the previous posts....My God, this is a long TB! The only question from you that I can find that hasn&#39;t really been answered is about the use of a map. PJ _does_ in fact use a map. It&#39;s in the beginning of the movie...I think part of the prologue. Very cool map. Pretty much straight out of the book with "texture". Nice. The camera sorta scrolls over it. Anyway....if I&#39;m missing a question somewhere, please post it again.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10:10 p.m. CST


    by FrodoLives

    Hey told me to "shaddup" somewhere? And I missed it?!? Gah! I would&#39;ve loved to have seen that ;-) -------------------- Anyhow...onto the questions on Elendil. Yes, you see Elendil. In the prologue. Briefly. Yes he fights Sauron. Fight is probably too strong a phrase. "Is struck down by Sauron" is probably more apt. Once you see Sauron wielding the One Ring you&#39;ll understand. You don&#39;t fight Sauron when he has the One Ring. --------------- Yes, I have been avidly following the development of the movies for the past 2 years now. There hasn&#39;t been anything false, that I can recall, uttered by New Line or PJ. Having seen the movie, I think that the best way I can describe it is....take the last (full-length) trailer. It was polished. The scenes were just bits and pieces from throughout the movie, but they were all the finished scenes. Now, take those little bits and pieces of scenes and string them together into a coherent, 3 hour movie. The ENTIRE movie is that polished. Those aren&#39;t the highlights that you&#39;re seeing. They&#39;re more just sorta random selections. There are SO many more wonderful-awesome-mindblowing scenes in the movie. That and the fact that they are all tied together by emotional development, depth of character and everything else. Ok....I&#39;m ranting again....I&#39;ll stop now ;-)

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10:16 p.m. CST

    unbiased review

    by wilko185

    This has been asked and answered, but in case someone missed it in this ridiculously scrambled talkback, here&#39;s the views of a Potter fan on FOTR: _____ "I was at the same screening FrodoLives was at. What he and the other reviews on Ain&#39;t It Cool don&#39;t really touch on is the incredible look of the film. The art direction is unsurpassed. You are truly transported to another world. A lot of it was manufactured, of course, but this movie is the best thing that ever happened to the New Zealand Tourist Board. As far as sound and special effects, I&#39;ll go out on a limb and declare this film beats any Star Wars in both departments. Sound is used to great effect, the score is wonderful yet non-intrusive, and the special effects have to be seen to believed. There&#39;s no use pointing any one thing out - just one incredible moment after another. I&#39;m sure it was pretty difficult to make normal-sized actors become short Hobbits - but they pulled that off as well. Only once in the beginning at Bilbo&#39;s house, I could tell they used forced perspective between Bilbo and Gandalf. I could go on and on, but the last thing I can say is that while I was impressed with Harry Potter (and have read all the books) I was WAY more emotionally connected to LOTR (and I haven&#39;t read ANY of the books). I plan to now, though. There&#39;s a rumor that Peter Travers of Rolling Stone is calling LOTR the best movie of the year. I can&#39;t say I disagree with him." _____ Sweet eh? It&#39;s from and seems reasonably authentic.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10:20 p.m. CST


    by FrodoLives

    Wilko: You want to be _really_ impressed? That scene you were talking about where you think they used forced perspective between Bilbo and Gandalf to get the sizing? Ian Holm (Bilbo) and Ian McKellen (Gandalf) were never in the same room (or city, to my knowledge) together. That wasn&#39;t forced perspective. ;-)

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 10:26 p.m. CST


    by FrodoLives

    Wilko! You were at the same screening? Cool! Email me...tell me who you are. If you want to be really impressed with the special effects, you should know this: That wasn&#39;t forced perspective between Bilbo and Gandalf. Ian Holm (Bilbo) and Ian McKellen (Gandalf) were never in the same room together. I don&#39;t think they were ever in the same city together for that matter.....that wasn&#39;t forced perspective, that was WETA!

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 11:31 p.m. CST

    Frodo.lives - nope, wasn&#39;t me

    by wilko185

    No, I wasn&#39;t at the screening (<sigh> if only). ____I was just copying and pasting the review from the link I gave. Sorry if that wasn&#39;t clear. The review came from someone on the newsgroup. ____Actually I have no idea where the screening was, and I haven&#39;t even read your review (sorry!). I&#39;m just hanging out in the talkback trying to be selective about the spoilers I read (I just want to know how the "known" changes are handled, and the general tone of the piece). ____I think I&#39;ve found out more than enough, thanks to your good self, and JoeM. ____Thanks again for the info (though in your shoes I&#39;d love to be doing the same thing :-)

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 12:22 a.m. CST

    I&#39;m sporting wood.

    by Darth Ranik

    Hmm, twenty days is a long time for my unit to be involuntarily errect. This could get painful.

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 12:24 a.m. CST


    by RenoNevada2000

    Jack booted thugs under the direction of New Line Cinemas will be confescating all known print copies of "The Lord of the Rings."

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 12:37 a.m. CST

    if ya missed it

    by Madwack

    Here is the Scene from Moria in DivX 3.11 Enjoy!!! oya if ya only have DivX 4 installed sound may not work..get 3.11

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 12:38 a.m. CST


    by wilko185

    Thank you for posting two such interesting and violently opposing viewpoints (they are headlined "Not to blow my own horn" and "I am already looking forward to seeing the crying purists in the theatre on Dec 19...", if you are having trouble meeting up in this broken wasteland of a TB). ___ I have sympathy with both viewpoints. I certainly feel those unfortunate enough not to have read the books before seeing the film are letting themselves in for a shallower lotr experience than they should be having. Personally, I feel secure enough in my umpteen re-readings of lotr not to have my vision of it corrupted by whatever takes place onscreen. OK, I may see Aragorn as Viggo Mortensen on the next reading, or Rivendell as the WETA version of it, but that won&#39;t change the central meanings of the book for me. I definitely won&#39;t be depriving myself of seeing what promises to be an extraordinary piece of film-making, but I&#39;ll be going in with my eyes open. That&#39;s to say, I know it&#39;s only a film, I have accepted that it won&#39;t be perfect (ie it won&#39;t be MY "film-in-my-head" version of Tolkien&#39;s lotr), and I&#39;ll have the books to fall back on. _____ Would I recommend the films to people who haven&#39;t read the book? If they never intended to read the book anyway, then sure, why not. It&#39;s the best way of showing them the light (heh, they may read the whole thing before T2T comes out next year). Bakshi&#39;s version turned many people onto Tolkien and they never looked back. ____ However, the omissions that Dan Small mentions, particularly that of the Scouring, do give me pause for thought. From my Tolkien-nut vantagepoint, I don&#39;t think I&#39;d like to have seen these films before ever reading the book. I&#39;d like to point out that we don&#39;t yet *know* how the end of story will be handled. The Scouring (or a bastardized equivalent) may be implied by flashbacks/premonitions elsewhere in the narrative. I have said before that I don&#39;t think it improbable for the hobbits to arrive home to a war-torn Shire, with the invaders having just been deposed. A few quick scenes could then show the healing of the Shire (Sam planting a Mallorn at the base of the fallen Party Tree, Sam as mayor, an ailing Frodo seeing life pass him by, The Grey Havens). This might be acceptable (barely), IMHO, if virgin viewers then quickly graduated to the books, but I&#39;m really not sure. ____As MPG does, I have less sympathy with avid Tolkien readers who fear that seeing the film will somehow impoverish the book. Book and film really are totally separate media. There are many stage interpretations of Tolkien, the radio adaptations, Bakshi&#39;s effort. The book has weathered them all, and will weather this storm (though it may take a battering in many people&#39;s minds over the next few years). In the unlikely event PJ&#39;s version ultimately supplants Tolkien&#39;s, it will only be through being a superior work of fiction. We know that&#39;s not going to happen, so I&#39;m embracing the film experience, for what it is and whatever it may be worth.

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 12:59 a.m. CST

    Why I have hope...

    by Jadeh

    I&#39;ve seen Harry Potter twice now, and in each case in a full theater. The Fellowship of the Ring trailer drew gasps, chills, and goosebumps out of the entire audience. I could watch the audience during the trailer, and see their reactions, I&#39;ve seen the trailer so many times I can quote it. The reactions to the trailer were palpable. Just because this is a Geek site, doesn&#39;t mean only geeks will be in that theater on Dec. 19th. It made me giddy to hear the audience gasp as a whole and watch the shivers when Gandalf slammed his staff to the floor. Good signs...

  • OK fanboys! Have you all downloaded the Moria clip? Notice how it seems to be edited down for the TV show, so the tension builds too quickly and it goes a bit too fast to tell what&#39;s happening? Then do what I did, PLAY IT BACK AT HALF SPEED. The drawn-out pause before the door crashes open is spine tingling, the tinny soundtrack drops an octave to become an ominous rumble, the shrill shrieks of the arrow-stricken orcs become anguished yells, and the fight becomes a bullet-time ballet..... well not quite, but *I* think it&#39;s a bit better, anyway. _____ (However, it becomes easier to spot the fact that Glamdring indeed doesn&#39;t glow like Sting does, doh!)

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 1:08 a.m. CST

    Read the book!

    by Dark Schneider

    The book will always remain the definitive version of the story as Tolkien intended it to be. These movies are nothing more than a massive commercialization of a classic. I&#39;ve always wanted to see my favorite piece of literature have its own happy meal.

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 1:22 a.m. CST

    Oh my....

    by Shanks 'R' Us

    I read a lot of the "wrong" books when I was a kid. I mostly read R.L. Stine&#39;s series of Fear Street books (and yes, I&#39;m waiting for someone to turn the "cheerleader" trilogy into a series of movies), and I never read the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I&#39;d just never been turned onto it... I can&#39;t explain how I never knew of the books. I never knew of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but I vaguely remember reading The Hobbit when I was too young to remember (I guess it was around six or seven or so... maybe even earlier, but I doubt that it was before I was five or so)... but anyway... I do know one thing for sure. What I saw on Thursday night was exactly what was in my mind upon reading the Fellowship of the Ring recently. I swear to God, it was exactly what I envisioned in my head. It frightened me, to be quite honest... and I&#39;d never seen footage of Peter Jackson&#39;s version of the Shire before, but seeing it, it was what was in my head. Upon that feeling alone... I think that this movie cannot fail... if anyone else felt that same feeling of wonder and warmth... then, this movie, and the whole series of movies for that matter... they _have_ to do good. They have to succeed.... not for the "geeks", and not for the "fans", but just for anyone who&#39;s ever believed or thought of a world better than this one. That&#39;s all I have to say on this matter.

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 1:46 a.m. CST Updated!! and scheduled LOTR cast appearances on tal

    by spunaround

    Interview with the writers. Interesting, especially after reading the purist rants. *** Also, here are some details regarding talkshow appearances. *** Elijah Wood on E! News Daily, this Monday (December 3rd), Elijah will also be on Late Show with David Letterman on December 11th, on Conan on December 12th, on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart on December 17th and Liv Tyler will be on both the Rosie O&#39;Donnell Show and The Late Show with David Letterman on December 13th. *** Get those VCR&#39;s cleaned and lubed.

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 2:51 a.m. CST

    my god

    by oorat22

    people complaing about changes from the book, complaining bout no maps to show where and how far the party travels. and someone doesnt like the dwarf. im not gonna insult anyone for those, cause well, there is nothing to insult(and i dont want argue bout this movie anymore) but just to say, ive never read the books, ive only seen the cartoons. so i know the basic story and how it ends. and my god, i watched the special, saw how much work they put into the look and setting and characters, come on they planted freaking crops a year before filming so the shire would look lived in. only people who care about and truely love what they are doing would do that. real weapons makers, real armourers, viggo doing his own stunts. the ringwraiths, the orks, and the cave troll is really freaking cool looking. if thats the worst cgi in the film, well, im not complaining. now, has far has them cutting stuff from the movie, me and my brother talked about this many times over the past year and a half. the only way to do the book exactly has it is written would be with a tv series with alot of money. cause there is just too much info in the book to do. stuff has to go. and has far as cheesy gimmicks, ya know i really dont want any. i just want a good movie, a real movie, that finally treats with respect the fantasy genre. we have never had a live action film set in a traditional fantasy setting that was done well. and after seeing that clip, im blown away. i cant stop thinking about it. it was so awesome. and the dwarf, you know what, gimli looks ten times better then elwood. come on, for one thing he was a pretty tall dwarf, i think he mustve been the tallest dwarf in the world. and the growl that gimli had when he spoke those words standing on a table with his axe&#39;s drawn. thats a dwarf, not a money grubbing, attitude filled midget, but a nasty little bastard you dont want to piss off. and thankfully gimli didnt have that superman tuft of hair that d&d&#39;s dwarf elwood had. and also, the only makeup i could see on gimli&#39;s face was the beard, otherwise that looks like john reys-davis face to me.(anyone else a little weirded out by seeing him with out the beard, ive never seen the guy without a beard). 3 weeks, and all will be revealed.

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 3:23 a.m. CST

    No, I&#39;m not high, I swear...

    by AliceInWonderlnd

    There&#39;s like eleven billion discussions here, but they&#39;re all way interesting so that&#39;s okay. morGoth - I was talking about the whole Galadriel being made to look more CGI evil when tempted by the Ring thing, as mentioned earlier. And I was just pointing out that both Sam and Frodo in the book do perceive a change in her - "She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful" and then she shrinks back into a "slender elf-woman, clad in simple white". And apparently they are showing this in the film in some way. And since something similar does indeed happen to Frodo when he is trying to get Gollum to obey him in TTT: "For a moment it seemed to Sam that his master had grown and Gollum had shrunk: a stern tall shadow, a mighty lord who hid his brightness in a grey cloud, and at his feet a little whining dog." I suppose they will do the same there in the film. There are a few other little instances like this, but I can&#39;t remember where exactly. The Bakshi version just elided these incidents, its kind of cool to see them back in the films (or at least one of them). Hawq: a few of the things I&#39;ve seen from the stills, etc, are actually cooler than I imagined them - though maybe this speaks to the paucity of my pop culture, MTV imagination. Regarding people who say that films will destroy their idea of the book, I must disagree entirely. If that were true, I&#39;d imagine the whole book in rotoscope every time I read it, and I can only assure you I don&#39;t.

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 3:59 a.m. CST

    Knobules, When I first saw aliens, that scene reminded me of wha

    by AntoniusBloc

    Actually, I think it was Cameron who seemed to borrow from Tolkien&#39;s Moria attack. Cameron built the suspense for the attack of the aliens in almost the exact same way Tolkien did in the book. The fellowship discovers that dwarves previously made a last stand right where they stand, and see evidence of it around them. That sets up the suspense of the exact same thing happening to them, threatened with the same fate, being hopelessly trapped. Gandalf uses the words "last stand". Now watch the scene in Aliens before the big alien attack. They also discover evidence of a last stand by the colonists, and one of the characters uses those words. A great way to establish the danger and build suspense. Of course, i don&#39;t really know if Moria inspired Cameron to build suspense in this scene in a similar way, but when i first watched this scene in Aliens, it reminded me of Tolkien&#39;s words, long before PJ&#39;s version. That&#39;s the only reason i bring it up because it happened when i first saw Aliens. So, it&#39;s really not PJ copying Cameron, but simply translating the suspense created in the book, which Cameron may or may not have been inspired by. (orc pods, another story). Anyway, that stuff doesn&#39;t really concern me anymore. Now i just want to see this movie! I can&#39;t wait! I want to see Traver&#39;s complete review of the film! So far, sounds awesome and I hope it&#39;s the start of a trend. I can hear the naysayers rationalizing now.

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 4:58 a.m. CST

    Drum Music From Trailer..............

    by Will_Haven it in the movie? Just wondering.

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 5:21 a.m. CST

    Guns blazing, and the letter you got.

    by Caine

    They are books. They are books, written by a man. They are books, written by a man, that tell a story. WHAT can be interpreted from such a story? Many things. I will say this about the one TRUE vision of the story/stories portrayed in The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, and The Return of the King. It did exist - in the author&#39;s head. There is no way to know exactly what he felt, what he was feeling, and what he was trying to say, without being him. Written and spoken word - no matter how eloquent or precise - cannot capture the essence of what a man or woamn is thinking, because words, pictures, and all other forms of comunication from one person to another do NOT convey the original meaning of the sender. The only way to know what Tolkien wanted was to BE Tolkien, and we all know that is impossible. *** in response to Dan Small&#39;s assertions and arguments. I will concede that I am not a tolkien or religious scholar. I know very little about the man beyond the fact that he wrote these and other books, and apparently was a highly respected professor. Yes, it is quite possible that the books were arguments and parables about the nature of life and man&#39;s existance, and all of the things that go with it, and not just a simple adventure story. I have never read nor heard of any document by Tolkien stating what his book smeant, what the signifigance of characters and scenes were, and what he was really trying to say. For example, does any kind of record exist by the author that states Gandalf WAS an angel figure in the western christian tradition. if such documentation exists, a "What I really meant Was..." By JRR Tolkien if you will, I would be very interested in reading it. There is a question that I have for any and all to respond to. Is it possible to experience a book or movie and enjoy the experience for its entertainment value, without looking for or extracting any message beyond that of the story itself?&#39; I once asked a film professor I had if all movies and television prgrams - and by extenion books and other forms of storytelling - had to have a deeper meaning than the story itself. His response was that there are some school of thought that say ALL MOVIES/TV Shows, etc have a Deeper meaning. He did not give me a definitive answer, because I don&#39;t know that there is one. If there are certain aspects to these books that you feel are important, and are not included in the film, then you will be disappointed with the film. That is something most of us will, I beleive, agree on. There will never be a film version of a book that will satify every reader of that book, because everyone has their own unique insights and viewpoints. *** My own personal opinions about the movie. I have not seen it. I have seen trailers, pictures, and other forms of mass media. I did not see the special broadcast (at least in my area) on FOX at 7pm. I am in the process of downloading the Moira sequence clip (thank you for the post for the mpg file, whoever you were.) I agree with the notion that the Host&#39;s voice was detracting from the experience - he sounded like a cross between a sterotypical lounge singer, and a Don Pardo clone. &#39;Our heroes are trapped in Moria, tell &#39;em what they&#39;re gonna face, Johnny!&#39; Boromir&#39;s comment seemed - to me - a sarcastic response to a truly desperate situation. As I have not seen the whole movie, or that scene in context, my opinion of this could easily change. *** I plan on going to see this movie, and hopefully I will enjoy it. I personally am not looking for anything beyond that, if someone else is, then that is their choice. Please bear in mind that this is a movie. It is being made as a form of entertainment for the audience, and a way to generate revenue for everyone involved in its creation. IMHO, it is perfectly alright to take it as that. *** I heard about the Willow DVD commercial, and the &#39;before there were Hobbits...&#39; line. Since the Hobbit and the FOTR trilogy were written and made into animated movies BEFORE Willow even existed (in some cases before George Lucas and Ron Howard were born) then I think that it flase advertising, and that legal action ahould be taken... I hope that there are many of you that will at least agree with me on that point. But since this TB is ENORMOUS, I doubt that anyone will be able to find my comments. If you do, and have a comment, a thought, or a response that is NOT a persoanl attack, please feel free to respond.

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 5:27 a.m. CST


    by virkku

    I know that the clip is available at morpheus and usernet, but I can&#39;t install any new programs to my computer, my user profile is restricted at work and I don&#39;t have my own computer at home. Has anyone mirrored the file? Please?

  • and you will. When this was first announced that LoTR was being made for the beeg screen, the first thing on my mind was "I&#39;m going to see this...on opening week...." Period, end of discussion. I don&#39;t care about these posted reviews. I knew the review would have had to have been practically "this is shit in the can..." for me NOT to want to see it. BUT then the director is Peter Jackson. This changed everything. I KNEW I was going to see it. Quite frankly, the posted reviews provide a necessary quench in my thirst of info as to what certain details have been included into the storyline. That&#39;s it. Folks of AICN: you&#39;re going to see this no matter what - kinda like EP2 of Star Wars. You&#39;re going to see that, too. Period. So face it now. But in no way do I compare this (LoTR) to other movies. Wouldn&#39;t want to demean it now. I&#39;m looking forward to this like no other movie ever. I&#39;m holding back my cynism and keeping my feet on the ground. BUT I have gotten my tickets for the 20th. I&#39;ll be there - and I will absorb this experience and see for myself how it all translated to the screen. Oh my god, I can&#39;t believe it&#39;s less than a month away. If anything, think this: this is the first major big sceen experience of the 21st Century. Whoa.

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 10:01 a.m. CST

    GunsBlazing (and Dan)

    by FrodoLives

    Hey guys, I&#39;m not going to argue with you about your apparent desire NOT to see the movie. That&#39;s your call. One thing that Dan mentioned in his post (via GunsBlazing), however, I _would_ like to address. Contrary to popular belief, Tolkien was NOT alluding to WWII in his stories. He was not alluding to anything in the real world. The stories are not intended ot have any meaning outside of themselves. They are intended solely to be entertaining stories, written by a master story teller. How do I know this? From reading and interview with Tolkien in which he said exactly that. From the mouth of the man himself, these stories were not meant to represent anything. If you want to read into them and think that they represent WWII, then that&#39;s your own lookout.....but it was not Tolkien&#39;s intent. And since his intent was simply to deliver an entertaining, epic story, I think that they fall rather well into the movie-genre. That&#39;s what movies are meant to be. Entertaining stories. Like I said, I&#39;m not trying to argue you two into seeing the films....that&#39;s truly your choice. I&#39;ll be seeing them enough to make up for you two anyway ;-)

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 10:04 a.m. CST


    by FrodoLives

    The balrog was simply stunning. I&#39;m not sure that I would even call that the best effect in the movie, however. It was the best effect that you just KNEW was an effect. But when you consider how natural the hobbits looked with normally tall actors coming up to others&#39; hips. How they took Rhys-Davies (a bear of a man) and turned him (seemlessly) into a Dwarf....these are things that are so well done that you just accept them. You don&#39;t even look at them as effects. THAT is what a special effect is all about. As far as my favorite character....LEGOLAS! Without a doubt. He kicks just SO much ass it&#39;s hard to imagine.

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 5 p.m. CST


    by BH|Sauron

    So I keep refreshing this dang page cause I think the new posts are going to the bottom, and hours later, I see they&#39;re goin to the top. Is there any rhyme or reason? Or do the posts have minds of their own? Ahh fuck it! Tolkien rocks!

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 5:03 p.m. CST


    by BH|Sauron


  • Dec. 1, 2001, 5:15 p.m. CST

    Caine and frodolives:Tolkien did say he meant it to be Christian

    by AntoniusBloc

    Tolkien does say that the story is not an allegory for anything specific, but did say he meant it to be a Christian/Catholic myth, meaning he did have the same paradoxical themes you find in Christianity/Catholicism in the story and symbolism. The theme of Good coming out out of evil and suffering, and hope in the face of despair. That is why Tolkien&#39;s story is so relevant to major events like World War II and even today&#39;s war on terrorism. The story confirms our deepest longing for objective morality. The knowledge that true Good and Evil exist, and Good will ultimately triumph.

  • Dec. 3, 2001, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Tolkien and WWI

    by protoguy

    Everything I have ever read about Tolkien (as well as his own writings) states clearly that he in no way intended his story to be about or hint at WWI. He did write that he sort of modeled Sam after the non-commisioned officers (sergeants) he knew in the war, their selfless sense of duty and "just-get-it-done attitude.

  • Dec. 20, 2001, 2:55 p.m. CST

    youre right , frodo lives

    by jayjo

    i just want to say that the movie was awesome and that what he said about the fighting scenes and orlando bloom as legolas, man i was blown away with that. go and watch this movie you wont be sorry

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