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HERC Reviews The Final BUFFY of Sweeps!!

Published at: Nov. 26, 2001, 11:35 p.m. CST by staff

Buffy 6.10 FAQ

What’s it called?

”Wrecked.”

Who’s responsible?

Teleplay is credited to Marti Noxon (who last authored the Buffybot-heavy first hour of the season opener).

What does TV Guide say?

“Buffy's tryst with Spike leaves the Slayer shaken to the core; Willow falls victim to a warlock (Jeff Kober) who stimulates her craving for magic.”

Buffy and Spike definitely had sex, right?

Right. They wake up fully naked, Spike has the slayer’s panties, and he almost seduces her into a morning repeat!

Whoa! So Buffy loves Spike?

Buffy hates Spike! And hates how hot he makes her!

“I just keep thinking there’s gotta be someplace, like, bigger than this,” groused Will last week. Do Willow and Amy find something bigger?

They do. The Warlock.

The big news?

This episode turns Willow into a supernatural Nancy Spungen. Amy is the peer pressure, the Warlock is the dealer, Willow’s eyes turn black instead of getting dilated, she gets the night-shakes when she tries to kick cold turkey. When Willow starts “mainlining” the Warlock’s magic in his cloaked and dingy spell-house, the addiction severely impairs Will’s judgment and she ultimately nearly gets Dawn killed.

Ah. So Willow’s magic, as rumored, puts Dawn in grave danger?

Yes.

Do Buffy’s feelings for Spike distract her from her duties?

They do not.

Does Buffy’s inaction put the Scoobs in danger?

No.

Does Willow accidently scare Dawn into wrecking Joyce’s car and giving herself a concussion?

No.

Does Dawn wreck Joyce’s car?

No.

Does Dawn wreck?

There’s a wreck that badly injures Dawn, but Willow is “driving” with magic at the time, and it’s not Joyce’s car.

Why are the FAQ questions so goofy this week?

There’ve been a lot of goofy rumors. Bear with us.

Does Dawn drive to find Tara because she can’t find Buffy?

What? No. Dawn does no driving this episode.

Does Spike try to avoid Buffy this episode?

No. But Buffy tries to avoid Spike. At first.

Does Buffy keep coming to Spike with questions about Willow?

No. Buffy comes back to Spike once, but only to enlist him to help find a missing Dawn.

Does Dawn’s wreck get Spike and Buffy talking?

No. Spike and Buffy are talking long before the wreck.

Do we learn this week why Spike’s chip doesn’t register Buffy as human?

No! Weirdly, this question doesn’t even come up this week!

Does Buffy tell Spike that something’s wrong with his chip?

She does not.

Does Buffy give Willow 24 hours to move out?

She does not.

Does Buffy tell Willow to move out at all?

She does not.

Does Xander side with Buffy with regard to Willow moving out?

He does not.

Is Xander pissed with Buffy because she’s neglecting Dawn?

No.

Does Buffy tell any of the Scoobies about doing it with Spike?

No. And she tells Spike if he tells anyone, she’ll kill him.

Does the episode end with most of the Scoobies estranged from each other?

No.

Do Buffy and Spike again end the episode by kissing?

They do not. And there’s a great episode-closing sight gag establishing why.

Does it look like, at episode’s end, Spike and Buffy are about to have more between-episode sex in Buffy’s room?

No.

Does it look like, at episode’s end, Spike and Buffy are about to have more between-episode sex?

No.

Does the warlock vanish before Buffy can defeat him?

Buffy does not fight the warlock. The warlock never vanishes.

Does Spike show Buffy where the warlock is?

No. Buffy never encounters the warlock.

Is Willow visited by more witches?

No.

Any clues that Amy’s mom might be returning?

None.

Any reference to that moment in season four when Willow accidentally de-ratted Amy for four seconds?

Nope.

Is there a big Willow-Amy magic showdown this week?

Not this week.

When we last saw Tara, she was waiting with Dawn for Willow to come home. That has to end badly, right?

It does. Tara and Dawn spent the night passed out on the couch, Amy and Willow come home at dawn, Amy starts blabbing about their big adventures in magic, and Tara bolts in disgust.

Do the Nerds of Doom launch “phase two”?

Who can say? The troika spend the episode offscreen this week.

Do the Nerds of Doom team up with Willow, Amy and/or Spike this week?

No. See above.

Does Giles phone in or anything?

Giles is wholly absent from this episode.

Do the Scoobs learn this week that Jonathan, Warren and Andrew’s little World Crime League is behind all the recent mischief?

Nope. The Scoobs are still cluelessly researching diamond-stealing frost-demons.

What’s great?

Dawnie’s waking observations, and Dawn’s dialogue generally. Spike and Buffy’s next-morning near-reprise (very important, for it establishes continued interest from both corners). Amy’s hilariously good-natured post-rodent behavior, and Elizabeth Anne Allen’s performance. Anya’s theory about Martha Stewart. Will’s Twin-Peak-y freeze-frame-worthy magic-overdose delusions. Will’s encounter with Tara’s duds. Buffy’s interrogation of a not-at-all-well former rat. The vamp-slayer banter (so much more compelling this time around). Dawn’s response to Willow’s apology. Buffy’s heart-tugging and near-tireless support of her best pal.

What’s not so great?

We’ve officially lost track of the number of times Buffy has rescued Dawn from growly supernatural evil.

How does it end, spoiler-boy?

Willow and Buffy spend a long night trying to kick respective bad habits.

Herc’s rating for “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” 6.10?

****

The Hercules T. Strong Rating System:

  • ***** better than we deserve
  • **** better than most motion pictures
  • *** actually worth your valuable time
  • ** as horrible as most stuff on TV
  • * makes you quietly pray for bulletins

Whose phaser was set to “stupid”? Whose brain should report to sick bay?

I am – Hercules!!





To order boxer shorts adorned with the image of a green, handicapable “Buffy” fanatic, click here.

Readers Talkback

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  • Nov. 26, 2001, 11:57 p.m. CST

    Ummm....that (p)review sort of sucked, Herc....

    by EricAlan69

    ....because you spent the entirety of it telling us what is NOT addressed and what DOESN'T happen. Methinks doth protest too much! //e.

  • Nov. 26, 2001, 11:59 p.m. CST

    So, a lot of stuff doesn't happen?

    by vroom socko

    Well, I'll be watching anyway.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 12:02 a.m. CST

    Amy?

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    Anything happen to Amy, Herc? Does she move out of Buffy's? Get in touch with her dad? Get killed off? Etc., etc., etc.!

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 12:18 a.m. CST

    Hercules the Strong says:

    by Hercules

    Amy goes back to daddy this week. And in the final shot?Buffy holds a very big cross.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 12:24 a.m. CST

    Hope it lives up to the four stars

    by DyslexicHeart

    The fact that Spike's chip doesn't even come up scares me. The episode better be really strong for it not to come up. I mean after "she came back wrong" last week it'd be pretty disappointing to have no discussion. Also, I hope Dawn's dialouge is good, because she has been poorly written this season. She's 14 not 8! Give her some moxy and I don't like forcing all these "Dawn and Tara are so close" moments on us. Tara has moved out and although I like Amber's portrayl, the less we see her now, the more we will want to see her later. Kind of how it's only been two episodes and already I am dying for Giles to come back. I hope Joss is cooking up something special for his next Sweeps episode in February and I hope his current fued with the WB won't stop him from at least co-writing one episode of "Angel" this year. "Angel" is having a great season so far and I'm sure he could pen a juicy hour. Maybe something special like "Once More, With Feeling". I think "Angel" could pull off a great black & white film noirish episode.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 12:38 a.m. CST

    So - when will everyone finally come to the realization that Daw

    by Smugbug

    C'mon that has got to be my major gripe of this season. Dawn so far is being played like a MAJOR pre-teen whinnie. I remember when I was 14 -15 years old, playing in a boys soccer league (no such thing as co-ed then, kiddies) as a midfielder and gettin' my whittle ass kicked every Saturday afternoon- and I didn't whine about it. Geez. Okay - on to other things: I have to admit it at this point I ain't throwin' NO HOT POCKETS into the ring. Uh uh. I am at a complete loss as to how this ep will lead into others - Willow and Buffy coming back together as close friends and trying to break off bad habits. Interesting. But I have to admit, I do find LUST a intriguing habit and I think Buffy is in LUST w/Spike. He's just that good old bad boy, just one-upped as a vampire. Oh, at least I'm "in lust" with my boyfriend and I consider him to be a great deal more than just a bad habit (sigh). So lust does lead to good things sometimes. As Buffy ventures into adulthood maybe she also learns how to and where to place all issues (and people) of her life, like Spike, Willow, Xander, Giles, etc. Oh, and I'll say it again: Angel has been better this season. While the story arch of Buffy is still interesting, entertaining it hasn't had the "ohm'god" quality of Angel. Yet.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 1:49 a.m. CST

    Remember Buffy's birthday test in 'Helpless'?

    by saucylittletart

    The vamp Buffy had to face for the Watcher's Council test in 3.12, Zachery Kralik was done by the same actor (Jeff Kober) who plays Will's magic-pusher warlock, Rack, this week. And on the bit about Buffy coming back wrong - my t.v. listing for next week describes the next episode's plot as Buffy having to deal with a 'demon hitchhiker' who came back with her when she was resurrected by Willow. So I guess Buffy's not a demon, she's just hosting one.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 2:07 a.m. CST

    Buffy & Spike

    by eva_star

    I can't wait to see what happens next. B&S aren't a classic couple(like B&A), but they are an interesting one. Hopefully it all turns out funny and surprisingly good.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 2:30 a.m. CST

    oh for crying out loud!

    by plunge

    The episode next week is a REPEAT of "Afterlife." In that episode, we deal with the whole "deamon came back with Buffy" thing. This is NOT new information, and it is NOT what the present storyline is about. Speaking of which, what the hell is going on with this episode? To tide us over for months, Joss's people gave us NOTHING. We learn next to nothing in this episode about anyone. No relationships are drastically changed. Nothing in particular is foreboded. And major plot threads are abandoned/left hanging. No mention at all of why Buffy is "wrong." Nothing about what Phase2 is. Willow is repenting. Buffy is repenting. Dawn is angry at Willow. This is a cliffhanger? Methinks that what happened is Smashed was intended to be the fall run's cliffhanger, and Wrecked got put into the schedule for some obscure ratings reason, or just to spite Angel, which started repeats a week early. Otherwise, what the hell?

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 2:57 a.m. CST

    Buffy wears panties??

    by spiderblood1969

    :>)

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 3:40 a.m. CST

    Yeah Right Buffy is a ho!

    by EmilyQFan

    So that fact that she has slept with 4 people in 6 YEARS makes her a slut?????? me think someone needs to get out to the house a bit. I do agree that Angel had a MUCH better Sweeps than Buffy did. I think if she rejects Spike HE could be the real Big Bad this season, Lets face it NO relationship stays happy on Buffy. That is why I fear for Anya and Xander

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 4:19 a.m. CST

    plunge

    by saucylittletart

    Sorry. My bad.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 5:15 a.m. CST

    Looks like the most shittest episode of the season

    by spike fan

    What a bad let down. Willow's all powerful addiction is finsihed after a quick slap from Dawn and she now see's the light. Uggh thats crappy and waste of what could have been the best villian on the show since Angelus who is still the best in my book. The Spike and Buffy thing is back to usual with the name calling and walking away. And like Herc said the fact Buffy might not be human has just been ignored. Dawn needs to be rescued by Buffy yet AGAIN This is really getting tired. Oh and Anya and Xander reuse the same lines they have been using the past 2 yrs. I would not blame Brendon if he left. For the past 3 and half years he has had shit to do. You can tell the way he plays his lines he is only there for the pay check now. Up an till now this season has been building very well. But this episode is just pure let down and lazy writing. What Whedon needs to do is bring Faith back to the show. She is a Slayer and there is still lots to play out between her and Buffy and the gang.She is a much more interesting SLayer than Buffy could ever be. I know Dushku seem's to be obssesed with playing the Faith charachter in movies. But those movies are not that great and she is type cast surely a good story line and hefty paycheck could lure her back. I mean Whedon got a $20 million dollar deal with Fox so he can afford one.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 7:40 a.m. CST

    I thought this was a very powerful epsiode....

    by Pacus

    Yes, as Hercule pointed out, there were a number of things that weren't included in this episode, but if you ask me, that's a GOOD thing. It is my belief that the writers, lately, having been moving far too fast ignoring the idea of fleshing out a storyline before moving onto a new one. Each episode, for a while now, has felt rushed and jumbled, and it was great to see an episode that focusses solely on one or two aspects of the storyline. Would it be more realistic if certain aspects such as Spike's chip or Buffy not being completely human were included in the episode? Most definitely. But IMO, it works much better this way. Anyways, having seen the episode I would say that only 'Once More, With Feeling' and 'Bargaining' surpass it as the best episode of the Season. Having somewhat of a conclusion to two of the most important plots was very entertaining and enjoyable, and to see the rise and fall of Willow. Very powerful stuff, in deed.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 8:36 a.m. CST

    B & S

    by agentsculder

    While I know must people hate the fact Spike and Buffy are "together", I am enjoying it a great deal even though I'm sure something will go very wrong. However, what does disturb me is that this week there is no discussion of the fact that Buffy "came back wrong". I think what I am finding most frustrating this season is the lack of direction on the show. We have no idea where any of the storylines are going, and it is driving me nuts! Perhaps this is Joss's intention, but I think BtVS is at its best when there is a concrete danger to face (hello season 3!). And while the Nerdy Legion of Doom is immensely entertaining (I nearly peed my pants during the Boba Fett scene!) there is no way they can be the Big Bad.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 9:57 a.m. CST

    its not obvious

    by sundown

    but it is a step up from the previous seasons Adam and Glory. Hopefully when the villains shows it will be Mayorific. My vote is for Joel Grey somehow to come back. We shall see. Willow will factor in but we'll see if its Dark Phoeinixy or Goblin Queeny like I suspect.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Review

    by Funkaboo

    Man, I must say that after last week's epi I was dying for tonight's and usually reading Herc's reviews make it that much harder to wait for 8pm to roll around. But not this time. That review was weird to say the least and it made the episode sound pretty boring yet it got 4*s. I'm seriously hoping that Herc is holding out on us and that tonight's episode will kick ass and be worthy of a sweeps finale. ***** Nina

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:49 a.m. CST

    Jeff Kober

    by Spoons

    Didn't that same actor also play the Master's main henchman in season 1? He's not listed for it at imdb but I swear it's him.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:08 a.m. CST

    >sigh<

    by Diz

    I know I am in the minority, but I think the last episode has really derailed what was a promising season so far. I thought it was poorly written: the whole Amy/Willow thing at the Bronze was exceedingly stupid, the fact that Spike reverted back to evil so quickly, thus negating 2 season&#39;s worth of development and marginalizing the most interesting character in the Buffy-verse, the whole dumbing-down of Dawn (admittedly, not just in this episode)... And I know, people say Spike was psyching himself up to bite the girl, he&#39;s not necessarily evil blah, blah, blah... but in the scene before, he was positively giddy at the prospect of biting people again. I think if Spike was supposed to be shown "struggling" with his conscious (or whatever he has developed), it should have been made a little more clear. If Spike does in fact revert to evil, I will be very disappointed. It makes him far less compelling. I am also sick of getting beat over the head with Willow&#39;s addiction. OK, I get it, it&#39;s a metaphor for drug addiction. Do we really need to see an enabler, a pusher, a crack house to "get it"? BTVS has always used metaphors for life issues, but they used to be much more subtle. The way they are playing the current storyline with Willow, I almost wish she was dealing with a real drug addiction OR the parallels were less heavy-handed. Funny enough, I have no problem with Buffy getting down with Spike, I think it could lead to some interesting things. But other than that, this season seems to be drifting (no mention of the chip or Buffy coming back wrong? Willow&#39;s trying to get on the wagon after one major binge; 3 or 4 seasons of build up for this arc, and this is the resolution we get? Spike = bad 3 seconds after he thinks his chip doesn&#39;t work after 2 seasons of build up that he might be reformed? The nerds are fun, but silly). I know we aren&#39;t very far into the season yet, and I am being unfair, but the last episode left a very bad taste in my mouth, and this one doesn&#39;t seem to hold much more promise, as far as the direction of this season goes. But then again, I am seven months pregnant, work part-time, and don&#39;t have energy to do much else but think about my favorite show, so I could be wrong. :)

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:28 a.m. CST

    What about Amy?

    by It's A Duck

    Does she do any cavorting in magicpants this episode? I gots to know.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:34 a.m. CST

    Amy&#39;s....

    by Pacus

    Amy&#39;s pretty much absent from the episode. There are a few scenes she shows up, but she&#39;s definitely not a key figure of the episode. Kind of disappointing :( ....

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:37 a.m. CST

    Jeff Kober was NOT the Master&#39;s main henchman. That was ano

    by Smugbug

    who BTW had a small recurring role in The X-Files as that alien guy who was killing off other alien people by sticking this pointy metal thing in the back of their necks. And for the love of christ I forget his (the actor&#39;s) name! He was also the chauffer in Fright Night 2 and he&#39;s been in a few REALLY bad action flicks (y&#39;know straight-line to video..). Whenever I see he&#39;s going to be in some episode of some series, I always KNOW something interesting (and bad) is going to happen...he does a great bad guy....Oh, his name is Brian "something"......geez.....

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:38 a.m. CST

    Plunge

    by ArchDiver

    "Smashed" would have ended the November sweeps, but the season got moved up one week when they decided to air the premiere a week earlier. AD out.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:41 a.m. CST

    Oh, I got it...I remembered the name of the actor who play the M

    by Smugbug

    ....thank god. I was going to spend the rest of my day racking my brain. And we couldn&#39;t have that, now could we?

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:55 a.m. CST

    From what it sounds like...

    by Thalya

    ...they needed to throw in some serious character development before they could get to another point, that, or it&#39;s redundant and as some have speculated, an extraneous ep. Eesh, it&#39;s sad that they stick a low-wattage ep at the end of sweeps (supposedly, from all the remarks going about), but this sounds intensely needed because it&#39;s from this that everything else in the season will probably come. Willow is level-headed, sure, but it just means she&#39;ll probably be more covert when she has an uncontrollable craving for a magic hit; darkness for the most part rots and degenerates from when it first touches and doesn&#39;t go away so easily. Will&#39;s going to go through a hell of alot more and it&#39;ll be a constant struggle for her. People, things are never resolved so simply on Buffy, not when it comes to character issues. The writers probably felt, since this feels like a tacked-on ep, at least give it a semi-happy ending so it doesn&#39;t leave viewers depressed for a month or two. As for the Nerds of Doom, it&#39;s new ground in that it&#39;s humans doing the wrong, utter pathetic humans who still nonetheless have hyper brainpower and abilities when together and manage to confound the Scoobs for more than an ep..let it play out..this could be a theme, especially with the ordinary muggers from Smashed: the innate Evil in Humanity: now is that a setup for a battle with the First Evil in season 7 or what? (not to mention something that&#39;s running concurrently in the Angel storylines) Further eesh, if all the humans are somehow going to be portrayed as evil in one sense or another, it sets up Spike to be a White Hat and potentially all the Scoobs to be Big Bads as I mentioned earlier. Shpedoinkle, people. Be better than to bitch in ignorance; be objective in ignorance, it&#39;s more rewarding.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Jeff Kober / Brian Thompson

    by Spoons

    Ahh yes, thanks Smugbug. I always get those guys confused for some reason. Thompson, who played the henchman, was also The Judge in a later episode.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Angel Rules

    by theshlong

    Be patient with buffy. Remember, the shit just don&#39;t satisfy until after that catalystic death. Let me explain. Every year, use-aully in the second half of the season, the is a huge character death (s1) Darla, (s2) Ms Calander, (s3) the mayors assistant, (s4), maggie w, (s5) Buffy&#39;s Mum. After this death the show picks up n&#39; becomes darker and more intense as the story line becomes, more orless, centric around 1 issue. I guess what people mean when they about the decline in quality of buffy, is that in the last few years the eps before that character death is rather, well, .......shit. Another example is the b/s sex for a quick ratings boost, at the end of poor episode, during sweeps. The Nerds Of doom, maybe fun, but how can you really take the show seriously with them as a running story. In my veiw the willow evil won&#39;t become a major story for various reasons, I know I would not be satisfied knowin for s6 the gang had to defeat Willow, anyway how can buffy fight the black witchery with martial arts? Xander and Anya stuff is becoming a bore, just marry them or end them. Preferably end it by a Anya death or evilness. At least then the show could get back some seriousness and Xander could get a worthy story line of his own to sink his teeth into. I think it&#39;s important that the shows lead male actually makes a difference, isnstead of having Xander move w/ the crowd doing shit all, the character needs some respect back so audiances are aware of the impact he could have. Spike looking like a possible good big bad but for a season that Weadon says he&#39;s had written and has being building upto for the last few season, I don&#39;t think that spike bad really cuts the mustard. The Dawn victim thing is crappy and is a sign of the writers stuck for ideas, again a decline in quality. Angel does not reside in the show takin off after a explicit event, cus it delivers week in, week out, the characters will move through a number of story lines in a season but with W&H preasuring them throught out. However, as for buffy. Until the season gets going after the death which won&#39;t be until the last 3rd of the season don&#39;t expect too much. Personally i will say, enough of this shit, reveal that Buffy has come back with a stronger connection to her slayer/ dark side, as thats where her power comes from (cus dracs said so), daughters of the devil a slayer is, thats why an evil Spike is able to love her. Let the scoobs find about the Spkike sex, quickly, raise sum hell with it. Also Amy n her Mum, forget it, took one episode to defeat her. I would have those demons (mentioned in Amends) raised to try and seduce Buffy further to the dark side (becomes more star wars every time), but in a Luke like effort she resists. My advice, if wanting the quality these days (which bTVS spends 77% of the year building upto) wait until near the end atfer the death.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Diz

    by Spoons

    Diz, you&#39;re not alone in being disappointed that last week&#39;s episode had Spike revert to evil so easily, but I got the exact opposite impression. To me, last episode settled the debate and established that it&#39;s not just the chip that is keeping Spike from being evil. Sure, he was excited at the prospect of being able to bite again, but that&#39;s attributable to fact that Spike sees the chip as emasculating (remember all the "impotence" jokes in Season 4?). Anyway, once he actually cornered a victim, it was clear that he was having great difficulty talking himself into it. I thought they made that pretty clear. The fact that he ultimately tried to bite he doesn&#39;t take away from this at all in my mind. Who knows if he would have been able to go through with killing her, had be been able to?

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 12:32 p.m. CST

    theshlong.....

    by Psynapse

    Nice dissertation. Maybe next time you can get one of your friends (your right hand does NOT count) to spell check it for you and possibly give you a quick one-two on sentence structure. That said, I heartily agree that Angel is kicking BTVS&#39;s @$$ this season. BTVS is still entertaining but is REALLY lacking any dramatic teeth so far (I don&#39;t count the Buffy/Spike conjoining as we all saw that one coming down the pike last season)

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 12:53 p.m. CST

    I Have A Bad Feeling About BTVS

    by yes, i am a perv

    This is now Marti Noxon&#39;s baby, so for all you guys screaming for Joss to fix this or add that, the guy is not there on a daily basis anymore. You can just tell that this thing is slipping into the realm of the soap opera. The Willow addiction story, damn Marti WE GET IT! What&#39;s next Will on the corner giving $20 blowjobs to pay for her next abracadabra fix. And what in the hell was the last episode about, exactly? We learned that Will and Amy have a strange sense of the funny. And that regardless of what we have been shown about the guy for the past 2-3 years, unchipped Spike is a major psycho whose idea of a good time with the girl he "loves" is kicking the shit out of her and reveling in the fact that she might be some hollow soul-less sub-human, nice. Hell, he was more brutal to Buffy than he ever was with Dru, who probably would have liked that kind of thing. The sad part of this whole Buffy and Spike arc is that if done right it could have really worked. Buffy, the one slayer who just wanted to be normal, matched with a guy who never really lived until he was dead (well, undead). It could have really spoken to the merits of good and evil/hero and villain, stuff this show used to do well, remember Faith. But the problem is the writers are cowards or worse,hypocrits. Why do the hard work of developing a believable (even if it turns out badly) relationship between B&S, when you can just have the sweeps sexcapades and then quickly show what an asshole one of your best characters is so your hero still looks all shiny and bright for the fans. Whatever, I can get that stuff by turning on a daytime soap, one of the crappy CBS ones, since even Passions does a better job with character development, story arc, and pacing (aint this like half a season gone already and not even a hint of a Big Bad or a coherent season long theme). Marti Noxon might be a fine lady with a decent singing voice but she sucks as a show runner. P.s. When are they going to let Dawn grow up. Damn, does anyone remember that the Scoobies were all around this girl&#39;s age when they were hanging in the library, researching the demons, fighting the good fight. Dawn acts younger than some 10 year olds I know, give her something to do or kill her off the show. Though I must say, Michelle Trachtenberg is damn hot, but as I am afraid of jail, that&#39;s all I&#39;m saying on that.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 12:58 p.m. CST

    people have been saying....

    by calvinthefish

    That Buffy is a bitch. But what about Willow? I know that if anyone needs a bitch-slap, it is her. Giles needs to come back and do the honors, super quick like. I think the problem with the season so far is, that I can&#39;t buy most of the stuff that is going on. It seems really forced. The only thing stable is Xander&#39;s and Anya&#39;s relationship. And that is a scary thought in itself.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 1:05 p.m. CST

    you may be a perv but you make some good points

    by sundown

    stuff to chew on... like Michelle...doh here come the cops...

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Buffy&#39;s not immature

    by Darth Tater

    Originally posted in a Buffy discussion thread in the Entertainment Forum of http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com , where paragraphs are actually paragraphs.: OK, time for a rant. I think everybody knows by now that the theme of this season of BVS is Growing Up (there&#39;s many other themes related to that one, like the building theme of Addiction, but Growing Up is obviously what it&#39;s all about.) Now on to my real point At other Buffy related conversations I read on the net there&#39;s been a lot of discussion lately of Buffy&#39;s immaturity. People have cited her refusal to talk about the kisses with Spike as evidence of this. However, I have a very different theory about why she didn&#39;t want to talk about those events. In "Going Through the Motions", the first song in the Musical, Buffy clearly states that she doesn&#39;t want to die, but rather that she wants to be alive again. She&#39;s living in a world that isn&#39;t real to her. She can&#39;t feel, because her senses are now accustomed to heaven, which has become her reality. Right before the first kiss, Buffy sang "This isn&#39;t real, but I just wanna feel". When she kissed Spike it was a way for her to escape (though very temporarilly) the hell that is reality. Using Spike to excite herself sexually was always a short relief, but both times the end result was obviously worse. Spike was under the impression that she was showing her true feelings for him, being blinded by his lust (which btw, I think is a natural thing all vampires have for the slayer, but that&#39;s a totally different topic). So afterwards he wanted to discuss this. However, she wanted to forget it, wanted to put it behind her. She was ashamed of what she did, and probably hurt even more by reality after that temporary relief. She told herself it would never happen again and then told Spike the same. But each time she needed more. Like the drug of magic for Willow, Buffy has become addicted to Spike (remember his lines from the preview for the next episode, something like "I&#39;m in you now, you&#39;ll always need more", something along those lines.) And this leads me to my final point: the only way for Buffy to end the addiction is to get rid of the drug, meaning she has to kill Spike. Chew on that for a while!

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 1:52 p.m. CST

    The Season So Far

    by RogerOThornhill

    This season has been a little off so far, but I think some of that may have had to do with the fact that they knew they had to work up to "Once More, with Feeling," much like The X-Files knew that they had to make whatever the hell season that was lead up to the movie when they shot it over their previous summer break. This, by the way, is why Herc got such great spoilers in advance. The first eight episodes really had to mapped out because they knew, down to the last iota, where they were going. Now, judging by the spoilage that&#39;s coming out about the post OMwF episodes, they&#39;re making some adjustments as they go on. Is this season 2 or 3 no? But it sure as heck ain&#39;t season 5 either. This season, we&#39;re not quite sure where all of this is going, and even the characters pass comments about how the villains are lame. Is Will over the magick? No. Is Buffy over the Spike? No. But we&#39;re all in denial now. I have a feeling the Big Bad is going to be unleashed, not by one person&#39;s actions, but by the simultaneous confluence of all their weaknesses and worst impulses--all the things they&#39;re denying. I have a feeling there&#39;s something going on that everybody&#39;s ignoring, including us, and that may be the customary February Surprise. And as long as I&#39;m here, let me comment that I also find myself embarrassingly drawn to MT, particularly in the dance sequence from the musical episode. It&#39;s probably for the best that they cut that sequence out on the repeats--public morals and whatnot.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Not Between Episodes

    by Krysten

    There was a decisive zipper sound effect during the Buffy and Spike scene last week. There were also some clear up and down motions as Buffy was straddling Spike with the nice long skirt on and therefore the sex wasn&#39;t between episodes. Those of us who&#39;ve studied the manual know where it was.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 2:58 p.m. CST

    Hercules is Joss Whedon&#39;s bitch...

    by Bramton1

    ...was there any doubt? I hope to God that Willow falls off the wagon. Otherwise, what a letdown. I don&#39;t really like Willow anymore. Remember when she was shy and kinda dorky. When she dressed as a ghost on because she was uncomfortable wearing the provocative outfit? When she wore that sweater with the big poofy things on them in Doppleganger? Now she dresses like a slut half the time and she&#39;s completely lost the common sense she used to have. Her character is just not that good anymore, and they should either make her Dark Phoenix-y, or kill her. Hell, I think I like the Tara character more than Willow, and that says A LOT.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 3:58 p.m. CST

    Growing up

    by Girl219

    I think the most disappointing thing about this season is that Whedon labelled it as being about growing up-themes. I thought that was pretty cool - something to relate to. But none of what I&#39;ve seen so far seems to be adressing that. I mean, any other 20-something watchers see anything they can relate to? I mean, WHO is raising Dawn? They dealt with the $$$ episode, and even though it bored the hell out of me to hear about Buffy&#39;s bills, she never really had to DO anything about it. She sure as hell isn&#39;t stepping up and dealing with relationship issues (and Darth, just because she&#39;s using S. for sex, and doesn&#39;t want to face it, in no way negates the immaturity of that whole running from what is unpleasant in her life). And does ANYONE like this Willow/addiction metaphor? ANYONE? Its like no addiction I&#39;ve ever seen, which is probably why its so boring. Other than her friends complaining she&#39;s doing too much magic, no reason is given why its bad for her. And without J. Wheldon in charge, the show just isn&#39;t much fun anymore. I hope all this is just establishing a foundation for the next part of the season (like Empire Strikes back was pivotal and left alot of unresolved story lines), but I can&#39;t help feeling it could be done with some more finesse. If they want to deal with big issues on the show, than they need to do it with a little less sulking (does anyone else get the feeling that every character is about to let out a heartrending sigh and mumble "poor me"). -- Sorry for the public bitch session. I think if it wasn&#39;t so good of a show, no one would care enough to complain when they start delivering sub-standard garbage.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 4:10 p.m. CST

    Kober and Thompson

    by darkguyver

    since they have both been brought up I thought I&#39;d mention that they both played on Kindred the Embraced.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Amy&#39;s Mom....

    by FedericoZ

    I see alot of talk/rumor on Amy&#39;s Mom. Forgive me for pointing this out, but... Amy&#39;s Mom should be dust. Her statue was presumably still in the school when it was exploded at the end of season three. Which makes it pretty hard for her to be resurrected.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Annoying and overused

    by Spoons

    First is annoying, although now it&#39;s become de rigeur to post something mocking the firstness. I guess we&#39;ve come full circle. The phrase "jump the shark" has become old, but the concept is still valid. I hope you&#39;re not implying that we can&#39;t criticize a show unless we make our own. Bitching is half the fun. My own nomination is the "has a beer and cheets on his wife" phenomenon. I can&#39;t even remember where that came from (anyone?). It&#39;s replaced the "all your base are belong to us" craze, which mercifully seems to have ended.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Jeff Kober was in HELPLESS(season 3)

    by EmilyQFan

    He played the Psycho Vamp that was sent after Buffy by the Counsil when they took her powers away to test her.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 5:31 p.m. CST

    Am I the only one...

    by craZchica

    who has really enjoyed this season so far? I swear, it seems like all anyone can do is gripe about some of the smallest things... But then again, after last season&#39;s attempt at being "Dawsons Creek with demons", anything is good...

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 5:41 p.m. CST

    Could Buffy be an angel? (possible theory)

    by Kronk

    Think about it. Earthly beings who return from Hell walk the Earth as demons. But Buffy returned to Earth from heaven. Meaning,if this is what Joss Whedon has planned, she would be an angel! Could this be the reverese of the supernatural laws of the Buffyverse? I wouldn&#39;t put it past Whedon to do this. Just a thought.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 6:05 p.m. CST

    Give the girl a break!

    by Darth Tater

    She&#39;s not immature, she was in heaven! Would you behave any better? I highly doubt it, you&#39;d probably have killed yourself by now.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 6:43 p.m. CST

    this season

    by MargoFargo

    to me, dawn is just a meaningless character who takes up space. they dont use her for anything except to put her in danger and have buffy rescue her. that used to be xanders role but now he and anya both do nothing at all whatsoever.*****and i just have to say that spike cant REVERT back to evil because he already IS evil. he is a vampire. vampires are evil by nature. i just dont by him as a vampire witha tourtured non-soul who is seeking redemption. the only reason he is even sticking with the scoobies and trying to earn their trust is because like buffy said, he likes pain. personally, i liked it a lot better when they used to beat the crap out of each other in the earlier seasons. I say go back to that. instead, all he can do is follow buffy around making "moon eyes" if she doesnt like you buddy leave her alone.i like Michelle Tractenburg and i like James Marsters and i dont want them to leave the show so what im saying dosent really make any sense.*****where did that big debt go that buffy had earlier? i know that giles gave her some money but she still needs to get a job.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 6:50 p.m. CST

    Are you people watching the same show I am???

    by BuffyFANatic

    What is up with the negative attitude in regards to the Buffy season thus far? I just don&#39;t get it. All I&#39;m hearing is the things that are wrong. How bout the good stuff? The dramatic moments that surpass anything that&#39;s ever been aired on TV? The scene where Buffy tells Spike she&#39;s been in heaven...the conversation between giles and willow...the gangs realization of what they&#39;ve done to buffy...In my opinion, no moment in season 2 can compare to some of the things that have already taken place in season 6.*****and now for a rant. I actually took notes when reading this so bare with me...theshlong-spike and buffy having sex is a ratings boost? When has Buffy EVER gone after cheap rating boosts? THe Spike and Buffy story plot has been building for a LONG TIME. It was NOT thrown in randomly. It made SENSE with the story plot. Also I don&#39;t think the nerds of doom are a big story plot at all. They&#39;re for comic relief. They won&#39;t amount to anything, but in a show that deals with death and destruction daily, you need some light hearted stuff. Willow will NOT be the big bad. It&#39;s too easy. It&#39;s too obvious. I bet hot pockets on that one. This one&#39;s for Pshapse123-What are you talking about? Buffy has not dramatic depth? Buffy is about irony, love, hate, trust...every scene is covered with dramatic depth. Every stare is calculated to mean something. Every character&#39;s words are necessary. To say that until around february the show is not very good just doesn&#39;t make sense to me.****If anybody wants to read an artical that really showcases buffy go to tvguide.com and read Matt Groening&#39;s review. I love that guy.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 6:51 p.m. CST

    However slow BTVS may be so far...

    by Smugbug

    there are still so many ways the season could be just HUGE. *Nerdie Trio - I think there are strong possibilities of the Nerdie Gang of Three to be great, great fun. **Willow as Big Bad - again, the possibilities are strong. **Amy - as big bad assistant or BB #2 **Spike - as a big bad or as a Giles Surrogate. That would be cool. Oh, can we finally give Xander more to do? So many possibilities RIGHT now, if only they (the creative minds behind BTVS), could get off their butts and move this season on.....

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 7:05 p.m. CST

    What are you guys smokin?

    by Marilee

    Hello, what are you people on? This season has rocked. I will agree on one point, they either have to boot Dawn off or give her something to do. Every week I wait with great anticipation for tuesday night, I cannot remember the last time I was excited about something on TV (I would probably have to go back to season 2 of the Xfiles but I digress). I don&#39;t think Spike was evil last week, just extremely frustrated. He loves Buffy, she kisses him and treats him bad. Spike is the only person Buffy is alive around. She seems really "dead" with the rest of the scoobs, like she doesn&#39;t care. She nevers gets upset or yells, she never even seems to get excited. I mean if someone did a spell that made me forget who I was I or dragged me out of heaven, I would have kicked their butt from here to the other realm. When Buffy is with Spike she is all of those things. She likes Spike but she gets angry with herself for it and takes it out on him. I think that this is leading up to something but not sure what yet. I thought that the review of Buffy in TV guide was right on point (although I have never thought of it as a guilty-pleasure). I have no idea what show you people have been watching!

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 7:41 p.m. CST

    why can&#39;t the show change?

    by kobayashi

    Everyone here seems to be in one of two camps - 1) The unhappy, doom and gloom camp that bases their opinion of every episode off of previous episodes. and 2) The happy-go-lucky viewers that love this show no matter what. I would have to say I&#39;m more towards the 2nd camp. I think this season has been great so far. The Resurection, The Nerds of Doom, Giles departure, Revelations about Buffy in Heaven, The Musical, the extent of the comedy, etc... The problem with all you camp 1 types is that you are always comparing everything to previous seasons. "Every year someone dies, then it picks up" ; "It wasn&#39;t as funny as so-and-so episode" ; "He&#39;s not Buffys true love, Angel is..." Well woopdee doo. Ya know what? This isn&#39;t season 2. Its season 6. I would be really bored if they were just recycling previous ideas. Thats what has made this show so great - the originality! Another thing that hurts all of you is all this spoiler hunting and rumor spreading. Why can&#39;t you just wait to see what happens? Why all the need to speculate and make up stories of &#39;how it should be&#39;. I could care less what you think should or shouldn&#39;t happen with Willow, or Spike, or Dawn, or Buffy being an Angel. Let the writers tell us the stories. Look, we&#39;re only 10 episodes into a 22 episode season. Alot is still going to unfold. I, for one, wouldn&#39;t care if we make it thru the entire season without a big bad. The big bad thing has been done. Let the main focus of the season be something different. The Nerd Trio is a great opportunity for that. Now, I&#39;m going upstairs to watch the show... I wonder what is gonna happen tonight? Don&#39;t know, I haven&#39;t ruined it with spoilers!

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 8:29 p.m. CST

    Buffy needs help...

    by cooper2000

    I think the show is kinda on auto-piolt as of late. Its a shame really. I disagree with the whole Buffy/Spike thing. I agree with the above post that said that they should have stayed good friends like when she told him that she was in a better place after she died and not to tell anyone else. I think them punching each other for ten minutes last episode was really a bit over the line. As for Dawn, is this all the character is going to be every week? A victim? First sign of jumping the shark. I really think the show is suffering without Josh though the show is still better than most shows. Has Angel been better this season, I hate to say this but yeah. Josh, forget the animated show and concentrate on Buffy! A for Jeff Kober...he was on China Beach too as a regular. Funny him and Brian always get the Monster parts.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Arse Cakes and Boo Boo men

    by rubberjonny

    I dunno

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 9:05 p.m. CST

    "It&#39;s like a meat party in my mouth." :^)

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    1) This was what I call a "mop up" episode. Not bad but not great either. 2) Willow looking and dressing more like VampWillow. 3) Spike is neither good nor bad, but when it comes to Dawn&#39;s safety, he&#39;s good. 4) The drug analogy was way too obvious. Again, this not bad but not necessarily great either. 5) Amy breaking into the Summers&#39; and jonesin&#39; like a crack whore. Funny. Hope we see more of her later this season, but it doesn&#39;t look like she&#39;ll be joining the Scoobs anytime soon. A team-up with her and the Legion of Nerds still seems open to possibility. 6) Speaking of which, missed the Nerds, but this being a Very Special Episode it was understandable. 7) No more spells? No more Spike (on Buffy&#39;s part)? Who knows. We&#39;re still left to wonder. 8) Xander and Anya, becoming boring and uninteresting (like any happy, content couple). Something needs to be done with this, and I do not like the idea of a Very Special Wedding Episode. Either have them elope or have Xander break it off. 9) Why do they keep writing Dawn as though she&#39;s a naive 10-year-old? 10) Can&#39;t believe we&#39;re almost half-way through the season. 11) Very curious as to what&#39;s going to happen in Episode 11. Maybe it&#39;ll just be a light-hearted standalone episode that doesn&#39;t deal with Spike, the Legion of Nerds, or Willow&#39;s witchcraft addiction. Feels like the narrative needs at least one good break from these threads before the second half of the season starts next year.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 9:06 p.m. CST

    Absolutly Brilliant!

    by Vincent D.

    I was prepared to be dissapointed by this episode, I really was. Instead, this has to be practically the best this season (it&#39;ll take a review of OMWF to determine that). There will be those who complain that Willow was "acting stupid" and that it was too extreme. It wasn&#39;t. In fact, it was played out perfectly. Yes, obviously this guy was a creep. obviously it was a dangerous place to be, and an even more dangerous place to take Dawn. It was a scene that makes too much sense, though. For anyone here who&#39;s had to deal with friends or family with a serious addiction, it resonated even more. The scene with Dawn waiting, staring at the clock, scarred. That type of thing happens, here, in the real world every day. This one&#39;s a four star episode, and I just hope the rest of the season can keep it up.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 9:15 p.m. CST

    okay, okay...

    by kobayashi

    I&#39;ll have to admit, after seeing tonights episode it does seem like the show is going thru a bit of a dry spell. I do like what they&#39;re doing though. Did anyone think that this is how the season would be shaping up? Willow as an recovering addict, Buffy / Spike nastiness, Dawn saying things like "meat party in my mouth"? They keep us guessing, you can always be assured of that. As far as slow starts go, if I was one of the bad camp people (see above post), I&#39;d have to bring up the fact that there have always been a few downer episodes every season. Think about last year with the whole "is Buffys Mom sick" stuff that was drawn out for the entire first part of the season. Not the best episodes, but the payoff wouldn&#39;t have been nearly as great in &#39;the Body&#39; if we didn&#39;t have the build up first.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 9:23 p.m. CST

    A Necessary Episode, Well Done....

    by EricAlan69

    Being a recovering alcoholic myself, I felt Willow&#39;s pain. Unfortunately, I don&#39;t thinks she&#39;s felt anywhere NEAR enough pain yet, and she&#39;s going to have some serious relapsing ahead....Let&#39;s see, I love Dawnie, and hope that they start to write her a little more maturely, BUT the reason they don&#39;t is pretty obvious (a. She&#39;s the only family Buffy has left, so she&#39;s going to be overprotected by everyone; b. She didn&#39;t start out life....well, alive- she was a construct, and that makes things a little different). Everyone bitching about her getting rescued regularly needs to look at the circumstances of tonight&#39;s episode a little differently, though- wasn&#39;t her fault in the least, it was Willow&#39;s. (And besides that, she&#39;s really filling a role that Willow had in the first two seasons, being rescued and whatnot....).Xander and Anya are the only STABLE thing on the show at the moment, and are there because the previous pillars of stability (Joyce and Giles) are gone. I think it&#39;d be wrong to fuck up their relationship just because a few of you are bored by it.....Spike and Buffy- hmmmmm. I like the way this is playing out, actually. Spike&#39;s loved her for quite a while now, and Buffy hates her own attraction to him, but is having real problems denying it, too. This could go either way, the WORST way being Spike becoming a Big Bad....been there, done that....Spike&#39;s a rather different character than he was in Season 2, you seem to forget....he&#39;s a little (well, A LOT) more self-aware.....I&#39;m happy. BTW- When is the next new episode going to air? Anyone? Bueller? // e.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 9:26 p.m. CST

    hmmm, how interesting...

    by kobayashi

    I was just over at &#39;the bronze&#39; watching the girls chat. Have you ever done that? Such different views of this show in comparison to us. Its all "Yay! OMG! naked Spike! Not once, but twice! OMG, I&#39;ve gotta watch it again and again!!!" Kind of shows the challenge that Mutant Enemy has in producing this show. Some of us want great writing, acting and characters... some just want naked Spike.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Where was the 60&#39;s music?

    by xaz3qrten

    Willow as an addict has been arrived at perfectly. In the scene with her on the ceiling, I was expecting to hear Steppenwolf&#39;s "Magic Carpet Ride". I think it would have been a little over the top, but it would have kicked butt in that scene. I&#39;m looking forward to the resolution of her addiction. The driving scene was very good. It showed what happens when, for whatever reason, you don&#39;t keep your eyes and attention on the road.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 9:34 p.m. CST

    Re: Diamond Dog

    by EricAlan69

    Well, FX *did* start with Season 1, which they&#39;ll be coming back around to starting on Friday, December 21 at 6:00 PM. And the band you saw the most in the early episodes was "Dingoes Ate My Baby", Oz&#39;s band.... // e.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 9:56 p.m. CST

    I love the way this season is going

    by St.Gordon

    And Spike is so not evil. When he found out from Warren that his chip was working,what did he say? "There&#39;s nothing wrong with me. There&#39;s something wrong with her." Some vampires might point out that there is something wrong him him, with an anti-violence chip in his head and all, but no, he&#39;s feeling quite normal with his little chip. Plus, if Spike was truly evil, he would have recruited henchmen and minions and such. He would have had people killed and brought to him. Instead, he hangs around with the Slayer and babysits her kid sister. Spike is, as always, Love&#39;s Bitch. He thinks outside the vamp box. As an added theory, I still think Amy&#39;s mom is gonna show up. I will think that until the final episode if I have to, but I hate giving up pet theories.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:11 p.m. CST

    What do we want?

    by Nicosmom

    kobayashi - I have to say that I want great writing with great plot lines but, a naked James Marsters is a bonus. I&#39;m enjoying season 6 and can&#39;t wait to see what this is leading up to. I&#39;m sure it will all come together soon and then everyone will be happy.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:22 p.m. CST

    Buffy&#39;s slow start

    by Zitoman

    It starts slow every season.......I&#39;ve been watching the reruns on FX so I&#39;m gonna stand by that comment. I mean we were almost ten episodes into season four before we really got an idea of what the initiative was......We had no idea what the army guy had to do with Dr Walsh, or Riely.....this is the way it is every season and everyseason (or at least the last two cause that how long I been coming to AICN) we talk about how it has a slow star. It&#39;s setting us up. That&#39;s what the show does.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:25 p.m. CST

    I Kinda Liked It...

    by Funkaboo

    I know some people have been complaining that they&#39;ve had it already with the Willow obsession thing and I kinda agreed with them but this evening I realized that the show hadn&#39;t dealt with it. We were all fed up with something that hadn&#39;t even happened cause we were too busy reading spoilers. If you look at it from the point of view of someone who doesn&#39;t know about AICN, they would see it coming but they had no idea where it was headed. We all know what&#39;s going to happen and all we&#39;re waiting for is the big bad or the big shock. Tonight I decided to show a little patience. And surprisingly enough, even though I knew what was going to happen, I enjoyed Willow&#39;s breakdown. AH kicked ass tonight. That final scene with Dawn and Buffy was powerful, I teared up. I admit, as a girlie girl I wanted to see more of Spike and Buffy. But oh well, I hate hiatus. ***** Another thing I notice about this show, even though I thought this was one of the more boring epis I&#39;ve seen, when I find myself getting aggravated with it (like tonight wondering why oh why they didnt feel the need to discuss the fact that the chip doesn&#39;t work on Buffy)it totally shames me for doubting it. I think it&#39;s a safe bet that they will address the Buffy/Spike/Chip thing we just have to sit back and wait.***Dawn smacking Willow was excellent as was Willow&#39;s breakdown.***Spike and Buffy, scars and banter, bravo!****

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:26 p.m. CST

    DAMN! So close! So close!

    by GoonLord

    So damned close to them finally getting rid of Dawn! I thought for sure the gods were smiling and we&#39;d come back from the break to find a dead Dawn in the car and Willow having to deal with it. But NO! Crap! When are they going to cut the dead weight?! They almost managed to do it, thought for sure Tara was out and maybe Dawn was sure to follow but no luck...crap! What would of made it a four star ep? Coming back to find her dead...now talk about some good drama! (even if we&#39;ve seen the whole addiction thing before)------------Otherwise, I always knew that evil old Martha Stewart had to be dealing in the black arts! Just knew it!

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:28 p.m. CST

    Dawn

    by Hi-Tech Hate

    I guess I&#39;m not alone in thinking that Dawn has just become the one who is constantly being saved. But I do have hope for her. It&#39;s been obvious this whole season (and especially in Tabula Rasa) that Dawn has a crush on Spike. Maybe she&#39;ll be more interesting when the whole Buffy/Spike thing gets out in the open. We know Xander always has something to say everytime Buffy has sex with a vampire, but what about Dawn? Is she gonna pissed at Buffy and rebel or what?

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:34 p.m. CST

    Mmm...Spike...

    by Thalya

    But enough of the Spikey goodness. (never!) Did you see that hair and eyeshadow? Evil Willow! Evil Evil Willow! *hops up and down, knowing none of you need that point driven in, but still excited nonetheless* Soon, very soon, there&#39;s going to be a point where they all need Willow&#39;s magic, and the ep afterwards, down the spiral she goes! I think something big&#39;s going to happen to Xander, most likely evil, that&#39;s probably going to be a Jossian sweeps twist. and that&#39;s all babblespeak.. This ep started out with an aura of goodness but it seemed to taper off towards the end, it felt like they wanted to force a solid "resolution" to B & W&#39;s problems down our throats, it seemed too rushed. But I suppose that&#39;s ok since it didn&#39;t seem very convincing. And about Xander once again. The way they&#39;ve handled him, it really seems as though he&#39;d better be the second coming of Christ with the little they&#39;re doing with him for now. mm..more later as it comes to me. *poof*

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:34 p.m. CST

    Also...

    by GoonLord

    Has anyone noticed that the FX reruns really seem to be coinciding with the new eps? Maybe I&#39;m just losing my mind here hoping for icy weather to keep me outta work tomorrow, but seems like lately there have just been too many things going on at the same time. Like they made sure to play the FX eps to coincide. Like tonight, we had an addiction theme of sorts with Beer Bad, and Willow&#39;s relationship has been going bad with Oz at the same time its going bad with Tara, Willow&#39;s vamp persona shows up at the same time Willow starts getting darker and they also play the ep with the &#39;kinda gay&#39; line at about the same time...so glad they are playing all of them just to see it all, especially since you can see it all clearly when its so close together. I&#39;m just thinking they are doing it on purpose. Of course the FX eps will have run their course before the regular season comes back on so who knows. Even if there should be some reason. Or maybe I&#39;m just dancing on the edge of lunacy in my frantic ritual chanting and invocations and prayers and bribes and whatever else I can get in to make sure it freezes over here and I dont have to go to work in the morning...

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Willow&#39;s Recovery

    by RenoNevada2000

    I, like many, wish they had lead up to Willow&#39;s crash (figuritve) and burn a little better. If they had, I would have been crying like a girl during that scene after the accident (Dawn slapping Willow, etc.). I hope that they rushed through this to get to something meatier- Willow&#39;s recovery. While its obvious that she&#39;s accepted that there&#39;s a Higher Power (Several on this show actually), hopefully they&#39;ll explore her recovery from her addiction- back sliding, etc. Can she even use small magics or is it like the alcholic who can&#39;t even have one drink without crashing? Dramatic tension when she HAS to cast a spell to save her friends. . .

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:40 p.m. CST

    Bad Willow

    by Statuatory Fun

    Alot of people all over the &#39;net are kinda complaining about Willow&#39;s magic addiction being rushed. It&#39;s not. There&#39;s no way in hell she&#39;s just gonna quit, tears and hurt Dawn or not. Maybe I&#39;m paranoid, but I think the breakdown and speech with Buffy is a cover. She won&#39;t stop. If you could do all the cool shit she can, would you stop?

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:43 p.m. CST

    to GreatOne

    by GoonLord

    Oh yea, Steakley kicks ass! Talk about some cool vamp action going on...Carpenter did a bad with his take...he should&#39;ve just stuck with it, talk about a movie that could&#39;ve gone down as an ultimate guy movie classic! Maybe one day they&#39;ll do his Armor up with proper respect (if thats possible). ---------IDEA SPARK! Joss do a crossover! hehe...Buffy and the Scoobs are kicking vamp ass in a nest and are suddenly interrupted with the crew from the beginning of Vampires, but make it earlier in the time line and they are on a mission...just show &#39;em, smoking, drinking, kicking ass, and then let &#39;em move on and the Scoobs can just give each other a quick "what the fuck?!" look...hehe...

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:53 p.m. CST

    Sudden revelation about the S/B relationship

    by Geekgrrl

    It&#39;s karmic revenge. Spike is receiving his comeuppance for treating Harmony exactly the same way that Buffy is treating him.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:54 p.m. CST

    Possible Episode 12 spoiler:

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    This comes from spoilerslayer.com: --Buffy gets a job in fast food, but wait until she finds out what&#39;s *really* on the menu... --Willow works on staying clear of magic, but a certain so-called friend (Amy?) won&#39;t let her give it up that easily. --Buffy and Spike are still on...somewhat. But Buffy keeps her mind on her work.

  • No, they aren&#39;t threatening villains, but I don&#39;t think they are supposed to be frankly. They are the slackers, the guys with the Peter Pan complex who don&#39;t want to grow up. They BELONG in this season! I don&#39;t think they are the only big bads we&#39;ll see. For now they&#39;re the injustice gang to the Scooby gang, silly and entertaining. I&#39;m eager to see Xander and Anya "fight" them already. ****** Now even though I like the Nerds of Doom, this season continues to suffer from underpopulation. Sunnydale feels like a ghost town, and has since season three ended(well, Sunnydale University had a few people). Apparently after the High School blew up all the life just fled the town while it could. Remember when every season had a list of great supporting players? Remember when it seemed like the Watchers Council was gearing up to do something BIIIIG?! I think it&#39;s no small mistake that every one introduced in season 3 has gone on to shine on Angel. Has ANY new Buffy character other than Tara been worthy of repeated appearances since the third season ended? Maggie Walsh was killed before we got to know her(they never did explain all the subtle similarities between her and Buffy). Warren has worked out well in the Troika, but I wouldn&#39;t call him a riveting character. And a few one-time characters that will probably never appear again like the Gentlemen, or Sweet, or Sunday(gee, all villains). I&#39;ll bet we won&#39;t see Amy after this terminally obvious black magic=addiction thing has run its course either. The only reason I don&#39;t hate this story line with a passion is because of Hannigan&#39;s always disarming vulnerability as Willow. When she broke down tonight I really wanted them to stop the dark side slide with her. It&#39;s too cliche, to cruel and familiar even if it IS dressed up as witchcraft. I don&#39;t want it going any further, not with such a beloved character. I want Oz back, I want techie Willow back, I want GOOD Willow back! ****** BTW, I think they&#39;re saving the Spike-can-hit-Buffy point for a later ep, which was fine since there was plenty to enjoy about Buffy love/hating Spike this week. Let&#39;s hope Spike meant it when he said he&#39;d got his stones back. RE his "suddenly evil" bit last week, they did back track during the fight and have him say he wasn&#39;t going to REALLY hurt her. That doesn&#39;t make him a nice guy, sure, but then he&#39;s NOT a nice guy. He has yet to show any real remorse for the centuries of evil he&#39;s committed. And remarking how f***ing a Slayer was better than killing one should have been a giant wake up call to us all. Spike is still a vampire. No soul, no heart of gold. He&#39;s EVIL! He may be like Giles in his Ripper days, but unlike Giles Spike is seemingly incapable of natural change(just superficial change because of the chip, a sort of artificial sociopath). The scary thing is he&#39;s exciting a part of Buffy that likes to be evil too. We&#39;ll see where this goes soon, I hope.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 10:55 p.m. CST

    Oh, the problems some of you people have!

    by Charmed

    First of all, I&#39;ve been reading posts from a lot of people that say that it&#39;s being slow and how there isn&#39;t much plot line and all...did any of you people read about the theme of the season? The part way they are going to grow up? If you&#39;d open you eyes you could see what Joss is doing! He is bringing out the things that make the characters weak and what makes them childish. This way he can fully portray the transition between who they were and who they are becoming. Second of all, the people who are complaining about the whole Spike and Buffy tryst being thrown in just for ratings...someone really should slap you. This has been building up since she came back! Third of all, and most importantly, for those of you that come on this site and depict you hate of Buffy and how the season is going...what don&#39;t you just stop watching the damn show if you insist on insulting it! And last, I personally would have seen &#39;Smashed&#39; as more of the episode that would have been best for the last of the sweeps. But, now that I&#39;ve looked at where this episode left us, I&#39;m having second thoughts. I mean, let&#39;s look at Spike and Buffy, she trusts him with her life and Dawn&#39;s, so it kinda leaves you thinking that is she pushing him away because she just being bitchy? Nah, I didn&#39;t think so...or is she doing it because she&#39;s scared that she is actually feeling something for him now? Look how it ended with Angel and Parker ( I know he hardly even counts ) it ended with sex. Just trying to keep the options open here...maybe she&#39;s pushing him away before he does it to her. Then Willow...this was a pivotil episode for her. She&#39;s realizing what she&#39;s becoming and she is realizing what it&#39;s doing to the people around her. She&#39;s feeling like she&#39;s nothing without magic. Which kinda leaves it open because if you saw tonight&#39;s episode, she was shaking, going through withdrawl. That just makes you wonder what else she&#39;s going to go through and if she was sincere about her giving up magic. Dawn is being brought out, slowly yes, but she&#39;s slowing getting more time on air. This is dealing with Dawn&#39;s growing up. &#39;All the Way&#39; was a good episode to support Joss&#39; theme. Anya and Xander aren&#39;t too active in this episode except in their discussion of Willow, which was on the brief side anyway. NE way, sorry for ranting earlier!

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:01 p.m. CST

    Miss Willow&#39;s Wild Ride

    by Wicked Willow

    I agree with the other poster who wondered where the 60&#39;s music was-during that whole spell-tripping bit with Rack,I kept waiting for The Doors or Jimi Hendrix to start playing. The drug metaphors were well played(Amy acting like a junkie thief,the waiting room in the magic crackhouse,Dawn being neglected). I don&#39;t think Willow&#39;s resolve to go cold turkey magicwise will last long and I was glad to see Buffy come down on her(plus,Dawn&#39;s bitchslap to Willow was well deserved)but Xander needs to get involved,too. He&#39;s been her best friend since kindergarten,ex-demon husband-to-be or not(Anya&#39;s bridemaid&#39;s "traditional burlaps with leeches" dresses was a nice funny one). A Hellmouth&#39;s no place for a witch getting her hex highs. As for Spike & Buffy-he so killed the moment when he said there was one thing better than killing a slayer,so not cool. Getting alittle too braggy there. Loved the nakedness and Spike&#39;s threat to bite Buffy if she didn&#39;t knock off the attitude. One thing I will say for Spike-He&#39;s crude but honest. He was willing to admit that Buffy had the advantage over him and wants to deal with the reality of his & Buffy&#39;s feelings. Buffy needs to talk about what she&#39;s feeling-"You&#39;re scared,ashamed of what you feel,whisper in a dead man&#39;s ear,doesn&#39;t make it real"-Spike&#39;s song was on target about her and if she went to the Scoobies first,maybe her Spike passion would&#39;ve cooled off somewhat. Maybe not. Either way,it&#39;s gonna be tough waiting for the new shows-Thank God for F/X reruns!

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:20 p.m. CST

    Growing up

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    The LEgion of Nerds do fit in with this season&#39;s theme. I&#39;m curious to see how they will play out this season. The impression I get is that they&#39;re not out to destroy Buffy and her friends. When it comes to Buffy, they want to learn just enough about her so they can prevent her from stopping their Grand Plan. And we have no idea yet what this Grand Plan is. My theory: They&#39;re out to take over the demon elements of Sunnydale, perhaps represented as the town&#39;s biggest demon gangster mob organization. (Notice how this season we&#39;ve been shown more of the demon gangster underbelly of Sunnydale.) I think they&#39;ll pull off this plan during February sweeps -- and yet in the end I think they&#39;re going to fail at this, doing so in a spectacular and hilarious way. Dejected, their dream of becoming supervillains will then come to an end. There&#39;s a lot of speculation on other spoiler sites as to whether they will become the Big Bad, the Little Bad, if this role will go to Willow, or there&#39;s even going to be a Bad this season at all. But the one spoiler speculation I haven&#39;t read outside of this TalkBack is the Nerds going good by season&#39;s end and maybe teaming up with Buffy to fight the Big Bad (Willow?). To have the Nerds go good would totally fit with the season&#39;s theme about growing up and taking responsibility. One TalkBacker brazenly presented this idea a while back as the real deal (FutureGuy, who claims to be from the future, hence his name). And what about Amy, who&#39;s probably still stunted in her high school years? It doesn&#39;t look like she&#39;ll be directly involved with the Scoobs, helping them out, anytime soon. Amy teaming up with the Nerds could be plausible. Especially if they suffer a failure of their grandiose plans to become supervillains, Amy joining them would probably give them a new purpose to pursue and set all four of them on the path toward good-doing in time for the season finale. (This is another FutureGuy claim.)

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:41 p.m. CST

    Big BAAAAAD...!

    by VarietyWriter

    Alright let&#39;s assume there will be a Big Bad this season. Maybe it&#39;s the warlock. In the season finale, Buffy has to fight him and his addicted young customers. This makes the fight more complicated for Buffy since she&#39;d be fighting against humans this time and maybe even her own best buddy Willow who&#39;s become a magic-crackwhore. BTW what is this warlock dude getting in return from cranking up these kids? Why does he offer his services to them? I&#39;m surprised no one here has brought this up. It looked to me like he was leeching off of the kids&#39; powers, amassing it for some reason, and may have been doing so since the second season when Amy probably visited him. This warlock could be the reason why Amy was dabbling into witchcraft when we saw her in the second season Valentine&#39;s Day episode. So the season ender could be Buffy taking on a big bad who&#39;s basically a drug dealer as hokey as that sounds.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:42 p.m. CST

    Advice

    by Funkaboo

    In my opinion, and we all know what those are worth, I felt like Buffy was and has been talking herself into not being with Spike. Especially tonight in that final scene with Willow, I looked at my fiance and said, "Why does Willow&#39;s advice have to be her advice?" Maybe that&#39;s the answer for Willow&#39;s problem but Buffy didn&#39;t seem convinced that it was for her but seemed willing to give it a try hence the garlic and cross.*** Also, (and I have this same question for recovering alcoholics, maybe cause I&#39;ve never had an addiction but...) why does Willow have to stop ALL magic. I can&#39;t help but thinking how helpful her magic has been. Especially in the er..Glory days...alot of what they were able to do in defeating Glory would not have been possible if not for Willow. In the opening scene of this season&#39;s premiere we saw how vital she was to the gang with her magic abilities. It just seems like its shame that she cant acknowledge her problem, cut back and do it in moderation or when really needed..say like when an evil God wants to brain-suck all her friends. ***** Nina

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:45 p.m. CST

    Buffy is REALLY flagging now

    by QuintusSertorius

    OK - My 2 cents worth: Xander and Anya REALLY need to be used more, and used better. Xander was fighting serious evil (remember how he stood up to Angelus in "Killed By Death") and still 4 seasons later he hasn&#39;t embraced the inner bad-ass inside. He&#39;s seen stuff that would make most of us shit our pants and survived. He should be battled-hardened and an integral part of the evil-fighting Scooby machine, but he&#39;s just a friend now and Anya&#39;s beau. ***** Dawn needs to go. PERIOD. She&#39;s more of an appendage than Xander and Anya now. ***** Spike used to kick the shit out of a lot of people and demons in his heyday. Now he regularly gets bested. It&#39;s tiring now. Let Spike be the bad-ass that he&#39;s always so entertaining to watch. ***** Buffy needs to re-develop some emotional depth (remember the final scene in "Amends" heart-wrenching emotion). Now SMG just looks bored. ***** I used to think that Tara should have been gone long ago, but now I realize that she&#39;s the only one on the show that has shown real pathos and gravitas. Plus she had the best song in the musical. That&#39;s all for my rant, except to re-assert that all of season 5 except "The Body" and "Into the Woods" was a wreck like this season is turning out to be. SPQR - QS out.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:52 p.m. CST

    One more thing

    by QuintusSertorius

    Whedon needs to explore the role of the church in all this. I&#39;m no bible-thumper, but since holy water and crosses help in the fight against vampires, then there must be something there in the Buffy-mythos. Explore it! Remember in the first season of "Angel" when he goes into a Catholic church to find information about the really evil child who was possessed by a less evil demon? The nun he saw said "You&#39;re not welcome here," and tried to touch him with a cross. THAT is where you will find your next stories, Mr. Whedon. In a whole new world of theology&#39;s role in the cosmic struggle. SPQR - QS out.

  • Nov. 27, 2001, 11:54 p.m. CST

    Warlock and Nerds

    by VarietyWriter

    Oh, and I&#39;ve noticed that they&#39;ve been showing us more of the demon gangster culture of Sunnydale too this season, Prof. I&#39;ve been wondering if there&#39;s something up with that. The fact that Buffy fought two petty robbers could also be foretelling of the season ender (her having to fight humans). Here&#39;s my theory -- if the warlock is the big bad, then perhaps he&#39;s building up power in order to take over the demon gangster rackets. That means that the Nerds and warlock could have the same goal in mind but the Nerds fail, as you&#39;re guessing, in the Feb. episodes at taking over. Later in the season, the warlock succeeds, thanks to the help of his addicted customers (like Willow). Willow goes along with this because she think the warlock is helping things by taking out the demons in Sunnydale. In the season finale, Buffy (with the Nerds joining her) have to stop the warlock and free his customers. So, >>IF<< there is a big bad this season, the warlock guy looks like he could be the one.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:03 a.m. CST

    Funkaboo/Nina&#39;s Query....

    by EricAlan69

    Well, for alcoholics, the problem is that just one drink sets us off COMPLETELY. I mean, your sucked right back into the mindset, and you are absolutely powerless to stop once you&#39;ve started again. Alcoholism is a physical disease as well as emotional and psychological- Willow&#39;s withdrawls are the same for us in alcohol withdrawl, and withdrawl is UNBELIEVABLY PAINFUL- so then you start maintainence (drinking, using, using magic, et. al.), where you&#39;re just doing it to avoid the pain of withdrawl. Also, your worldview seems easier when you first get drunk, but it&#39;s only a very temporary escape. It&#39;s not something we can do in moderation ever again, because, again, there&#39;s a physiological change along with the psychological component that makes us physically addicted to alcohol. Although it&#39;s obvious, I think Willow&#39;s addiction is a good metaphor....BUT (and it&#39;s a big but!)....there&#39;s no practical reason for me to start drinking again, as it won&#39;t help my friends out of any bad situations, whereas Willow is almost definitely going to be faced with situations where she&#39;ll be expected to use magic to save some Scoobs....and if they truly want her to &#39;recover&#39;, then she&#39;s going to have to find another way to help than magic. If she somehow learns to &#39;contol&#39; her magic use once again, then it pisses the addiction/recovery metaphor away. She just can&#39;t do it anymore, period....and I think we&#39;ve yet to see how bad it&#39;ll get for her.... // e.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:15 a.m. CST

    worst episode ever...

    by deep 13

    i really love a well written episode of buffy. to bad this wasn&#39;t one. every situation was completely contrived, everybody was completely out of character, every metaphor and parallel not only embarrassingly obvious but repeated over and over in cass we didn&#39;t get it and it was all framed in the plot of an afterschool special running the gambit of melodramatic clich

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:19 a.m. CST

    Everything&#39;s A-OK! Thanks for the get-well cards!

    by IdFuckAvril

    Methinks Mister Big Baddie is the warlock. There were too many unanswered questions about him. What the fuck is he doing whatever it is he does? Just for sex jollies? Methinky we won&#39;t see much more of him until after the Nerdy Doom fuck up whatever their plan is. Toward the end of the season, I see him coming back and we discovering that there&#39;s more to him than we thought. I bet we were introduced finally to the Big Bad last night, people.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:21 a.m. CST

    who&#39;s da big bad?

    by VarietyWriter

    wanna bet me on it, harry&#39;s server?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:29 a.m. CST

    Spike = Bad?

    by It's A Duck

    Wait, just exactly why does Buffy have to give up the Spike loving anyway? Just because it makes her feel "dirty"? And?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:31 a.m. CST

    Retraction

    by Girl219

    I have to back down a little from my former position, after tonight&#39;s episode. Looking over the season so far, and reading what everyone&#39;s wrote, this really has been all build-up. The writer&#39;s seem to be pulling everything apart, breaking down everyone&#39;s lives, just to spend the rest of the season putting it all back together. I once read that every story is the same. First the writer has to establish that there&#39;s a hero and a tree, then he has to put the hero in the tree, and then he has to figure out how to get the hero back down (that is sooo paraphrased from memory). The Willow/addiction thing was hokey, but not as bad as I thought. Amy robbing the house, THAT was really hokey. The writer&#39;s should be ashamed, that was so heavy handed. And Dawn as a victim doesn&#39;t bother me so much, I just wish they&#39;d show more of Buffy parenting after these rescues. Then I think it&#39;d make more sense to the storyline. And I really don&#39;t understand how anyone can still think Spike&#39;s evil! I mean, the f**king slayers remark was not suave, but that&#39;s not especially his m.o. But their entire banter this episode was great! The way he was talking to her displayed a new confindence. He knows now where he stands with her. The biting comment was great, because he said it in the perfect, "stop acting like an idiot" tone of voice. And did anyone else see the look they exchanged when Willow broke down? No words, he just took care of Dawn and left Buffy to deal with what she had to. Same when they rescued Dawn... she fought, and he went and made sure she was O.K. Also him challenging her on letting her annoyance of him put her sister in danger. They&#39;ve been acting like a couple for a long time now... Buffy just doesn&#39;t want to face it. Her talk with Willow gave the reasons why... everyone gets hurt when she gets into these relationships. Especially her. I&#39;m just glad he&#39;s fighting back now, and not making moon eyes, because it really does help clarify her fears. And the way she fortified her room in the last scene was brilliant! She&#39;s putting all the defenses she knows to keep him out... sorta&#39; a metaphor for how she&#39;s feeling. Sorry to be so girlie about the whole thing, but I think its so obvious. Whoever said that Xander/Anya are taking over the Giles/Joyce role is dead on. They are the grown-ups. They deal with what they have and get on with their lives. And one last thing - I think the fact that Buffy coming back wrong might be a set-up for a redemption of all vampires, not just Spike. Maybe Wheldon is getting all Eastern philosophical on us. There is no big bad or pure good, just alot of gray people trying to deal with the existence they&#39;ve been given. I mean, do all vampires request to be bitten and have their souls stolen? Not to get all fuzzy-wuzzy, but it seems a possible direction. Anyway, tonights episode restored my faith. For the way its furthered the story line and character motivations, I think the 4*&#39;s was a fair rating.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:46 a.m. CST

    Meat Party, Baby

    by Mr. Smegma

    K, everyone who has bitched &#39;bout sexing up an underage Dawn needs to direct their letters to Marti Noxon. As for me, it has been obvious with every arch of her brow and back as she glide-bounces from room to room on those ridicuously long legs that her sweet little butter bean was just throbbin&#39; away, achin&#39; for a caress, a lamppost, a chair leg, or anything else that might bring release with just a few strokes. She is now by far the most erotically charged familiar face in the Buffyverse, what with her big sis on some strange pleasure rejection kick.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:01 a.m. CST

    Worst Episode...

    by DarkZero

    That episode, while I hate to sound like the Comic Shop Guy when I say this, was probably the worst episode of Buffy EVER. In over one hundred episodes, I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve ever come away from a Buffy episode absolutely hating it. Even the episodes that pretty much sucked still had some big, shining diamonds in the rough that still made me like the episode. This one, however, was crap. Absolute crap. It was preachy, it was even more cliched than the Dawn & Tara dialogue in the previous episode, and it basically played out like an episode of Dawson&#39;s Creek with the word "magic" substituted for "drugs". Before this, a lot of Buffy episodes were metaphors for life and real life issues. Now it isn&#39;t even a metaphor. It&#39;s just a Dawson&#39;s Creek episode trying to teach good values to teenagers in the most condescending way possible. And if that didn&#39;t piss me off enough, this episode ruined a good plot and pissed all over Buffy&#39;s continuity. If Amy and the other witches/warlocks in Sunnydale knew about Rack&#39;s place as much as three years ago (since Amy would&#39;ve had to have known it before she was turned into a rat, and that was three years ago), why didn&#39;t Amy and the little Goth Boy witch act like heroin addicts in the third season? If witches were running around all jazzed up by Rack for more than three years, why didn&#39;t the Scoobies notice them? And why was Willow suddenly drained for the first time by a night of mischievous magic when she didn&#39;t feel a similar effect while beating the divine crap out of a god TWICE? And if magic is so addicting, then why do they portray it as such an innocent, misunderstood thing in so many other episodes, like when Willow talks about the bad stereotype about witches being old hags or the witches being persecuted in the 3rd season episode where Amy turns into a rat? Why did this whole "magic is addicting" thing come up just now in the sixth season, when all of the magic Willow and Tara were doing in the previous seasons was regarded as harmless and even as a good thing? From the ridiculous preachiness and cliches to the complete lack of continuity, this episode felt like it was a completely different show that just had some really familiar actors in it. Did the entire cast of Buffy move over to a show called "Willow: The Public Service Announcer" and someone forgot to tell me? This was definitely Buffy&#39;s worst episode ever, at least for me. And yet it gets four stars...?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:29 a.m. CST

    Girl219

    by Thalya

    mm..so you&#39;re saying Spike might somehow be the second coming? *half-kidding* I mean. He&#39;s the vampire who&#39;s particularly driven by love, though not quite in the Christian ideal way. I just have to say, wow. Did people here read my 1st post or was it spontaneous? This one talkback seems suddenly intellectual and grownup (or much more so than usual or I could just be dead tired)..could be Whedon&#39;s influence too. Everyone&#39;s dead on with everything. This has been really great to read. *poofers*

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:32 a.m. CST

    *** and a half

    by MGTHEDJ

    The addiction allegory was a bit heavy handed, but no more than Willow and Kahlis the Internet Demon from Season 1 (cyber-stalking pedophiles). Buffy and Spike: more camera-actor choreography than Skinamax. And can I gloat a little, I called the "What have we done!" scenerio, and they even had Buffy say "You were convenient." Now that sweeps is over, time to go check out "Undeclared".-----later-----m

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:45 a.m. CST

    SPIKE HAS A BEER AND CHEETS ON BUFFY!

    by JamesSullivan

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:47 a.m. CST

    Government grants?

    by Carbonel

    OK, it wasn&#39;t a great episode. They couldn&#39;t have battered me over the head with the drug metaphor more unless they&#39;d come up with a way for Willow to inject it. (By the way, does anyone think that they got some money for the government for it? I was reading something recently about how the government gives grants to shows with anti-drug storylines). On the plus side, however, I really did feel that it solved various problems that they&#39;d been having, and it set up some interesting issues for the future. 1. Willow&#39;s addiction. Yes - a bit hamfisted. But it has potential for a lot of development, and it will make Tara&#39;s relationship with her even more interesting - I&#39;m guessing it&#39;s not going to be easy to love a recovering addict. I&#39;m hoping that this is the starting point, not the concluding point, of this storyline. 2. Buffy and Spike. I *love* this storyline, but I was very worried that after last week, Spike was going to have to be killed. They couldn&#39;t really endorse a relationship which romanticised domestic abuse in that way. Fortunately, the writers have come up with a way to cool it off, while still leaving it potential to develop. Plus, I loved the way that Buffy automatically assumed that he would take care of Dawn while she went back for Willow. Lots of contradictions there. 3. Various storylines were pushed to the background, but I don&#39;t think they were forgotten. Buffy still has to get a job. Xander and Anya still may or may not get married. Buffy may not be human. We still don&#39;t know what the Nerds of Doom. In retrospect, I think this will be remembered as a slightly duff episode, which nevertheless turned out to be crucial to the season&#39;s story arc.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 5:23 a.m. CST

    non specific

    by theshlong

    Hey Psynapse123, I know I could spend more time writing out a message properly but the truth is I really just don&#39;t give a shit. I&#39;m not the only one here who has shown capabuilities (spelling??) of writing like a retard. Anyway I think you get the jist of what I was saying in the last message. BuffyFANatic I never said the nerds of doom were the main story line, I said they were an on going story line, which is dragging on way too long, an wreckin the show abit. Whoever said their spreading half a season into a full season is quite right. Theres alot of crappyness here, and were already moving into the half way point for fucksake. I really hope they deal with the &#39;what buffy is&#39; very soon. I also would have my reservations if in the next episode they didn&#39;t deal with the 1/ gang finding out &#39;bout the b/s sex, 2/ willows witchcraft, and 3/ resolving the nerds of doom situation. I also don&#39;t really understand the situation with spike. To me he was always just a entertainment peice whether it&#39;s comic relief or the enjoyment of seeing an evil guy. Are the creators now tryin to make him an important figure in the show, or does he have a master plan (like his chip really doesn&#39;t work but he lied, saying it was just buffy, to get her into sex). truthfully it&#39;s pissin me off, he&#39;s no longer a fun character to watch he&#39;s just more of a bastard now. hope they bring up an action packed ep next to tie some things together so they can move forward in this mastermind plot. u can its not really movin by the way disscusions here are goin round in circles, repeating the same topics. Yeah we know Willow aint the big bad, we know Dawn is a sexy waste of space, we know Spikes evil, we know the b/s relation is an example of how Buffy is unsatisfied w/ her misserable life, we know s2 n&#39; s3 are still the best and we know buffy aint gonna end up with a vampire (ANY VAMPIRE) as a true love. We also know ANGEL kicks this shows ass. ha ha

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 6:13 a.m. CST

    Smegma, you certainly have a way with words.

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    "Glide-bounces" and "sweet little butter bean." By any chance, do you write erotica? I mean, besides the messages you post to these Talkbacks?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 6:52 a.m. CST

    Did the dream-demon have Tara?

    by Miriam

    In Willow&#39;s drug-dream sequence, a monster appears carrying a woman. Willow screams and falls to the floor. Elsewhere I have seen specualtion tht this is woman is a part of Buffy&#39;s spirit, the missing part that made her come back wrong. Wish I had a VCR with freeze-frame to get a better look, but I was wondering - is this woman Tara? After all, why does Willow scream? She has seen lots of demons , and this one wasn&#39;t directly threatening her at that point.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:44 a.m. CST

    What we are missing

    by St.Gordon

    Someone on this board said we are missing some really big clues... Well I think it is Dawn. Over and over she says and asks if anyone notices her. Something BIG is going to go down with her character. Does anyone really think that Xander summoned Sweet? Dawn did it, she lied about it, and Xander lied to cover for her. We know that Dawn knows how to do magic, which is more than Xander has been shown to do, and besides the necklace, Dawn has that talisman thingie from D&#39;Hoffryn. What else as she stolen and/or summoned?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 8:35 a.m. CST

    HELP

    by YouStupidGeeks

    The VCR messed up, and I missed the first Buffy of my life. The spoilers help to keep me involved but they leave stuff out. Does anyone know if they will be reairing it on UPN this week? Please email me at Bond1217@aol.com

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:21 a.m. CST

    4 stars???

    by cara

    Is Herc Marti Noxon? Come on, three stars maybe but four? No way. The show has been lacking this season yet Herc absolutely refuses to give it below four stars. I&#39;m just so bored with every story arc. They need to go in a new direction. Kill some people off or something. Just give me something I can watch. No more Spike and Buffy. Please. They suck so bad. Willow needs to be smacked along with Dawn. I don&#39;t even know why Xander and Anya are on the show anymore. I know all of a sudden everyone is a S/B shipper but this is how I feel.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Not a great ep. and timeline problems

    by Wicker Man

    I wasn&#39;t particularly impressed by wrecked for reasons already discussed (magic / drug metaphor too heavy-handed in particular). What really annoyed me was a discrepancy in the timing...it looks like Buffy and Spike missed a night: Night 1 - Amy & Willow at the Bronze, Buffy & Spike shagging. Night 2 - Amy & Willow at Rack&#39;s. Night 3 - Willow and Dawn at Rack&#39;s, Buffy and SPike talking about what they did "last night" which was really two nights ago. Is this a mistake or a clue to something coming?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Dear Prof.

    by Mr. Smegma

    I consider it a public service to give voice to all vile yearnings that Talkbackers might harbor in their dirty little TiVoed brains. To that end, a close viewing reveals that you can almost see teh goosebumps rise on Buffy when she is presented with a glimpse of Spike&#39;s undead manhood when she goes for his help. She doesn&#39;t turn away out of disgust, but out of fear that her suddenly bullet-hard nipples, shallow breaths, and flush-face will call Spike to an embrace she cannot refuse. What a strange and mystical thing little Spike must be: no blood to give it heat and make it throb, yet capable of quenching fires deep inside Buffy that she didn&#39;t know still burned. That and we must assume that Spike has quite a bit more technique than Angel, despite the latter&#39;s study under, over, and around Darla. Perhaps we should credit twisted Dru. Certainly it is possible that short-strokin&#39; Riley made Buffy forget what a real man, alive or dead, could do it her downy loins. Still, it is so strange that a few full-body, tingling thunderclaps should drive the poor woman-child to lock herself behind closed doors. A bad boy fling is one thing, full-on musky, sticky touch-the-face-of-God moments are quite another. Resolution is a bitch.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:32 a.m. CST

    Herc, last week&#39;s ANGEL was better than this!

    by Psyclops

    This episode had it&#39;s moments (Willow bringing Tara&#39;s clothing to life) but it couldn&#39;t top last week&#39;s ANGEL. This was no way near a four star show. Not this week anyway.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:32 a.m. CST

    The magic addiction

    by Geekgrrl

    might be a little closer to something like an overeating problem. Willow will undoubtedly have to use magic to save her friends, just like an overeater has to eat to live. Much harder problem that giving up something cold turkey that has no benefits to you or anyone else around you. Or sorta like Angel&#39;s blood addiction - needs to use the violence to stop the bad guys, but the violence brings out his demon nature....

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Dawn Summoning Sweet

    by Funkaboo

    You know, Dawn swiped the talisman after the singing started so I kinda believed that Xander did it. The thing that did bother me about it was that when it came out that he did it, he was all, "I didn&#39;t know what would happen, I just thought it would be singing and dancing." And I can understand when everything started him playing along like he was just as confused as the others but when the bodies started combusting, he shoulda stepped forward and pointed everyone towards the talisman and obviously the text that he read to summon the demon. BUT if you guys remember, Giles couldn&#39;t say for sure that they were linked (combusting bodies/singing and dancing). That&#39;s why it makes Spike&#39;s line to Buffy after they find out that Sweets has Dawn and will be taking her to the underworld at midnight, "Fine, I hope you dance till you burn. You and the little bit.", so confusing. How did HE know that would happen? There was never a clear "a-ha, these are linked" moment. Maybe I&#39;m just nitpicking. But if that&#39;s correct, for all they knew at the end Sweets was a demon summoned by someone who would be forced to be his bride. Period. And THAT should have been enough for Xander to fess up AT THE MAGIC SHOP, when Sweets henchman told the deal, but he didn&#39;t. With all that it does seem A LITTLE likely that maybe he stepped forward for Dawn&#39;s benefit but that takes us right back to Dawn seeming to see the talisman for the first time AFTER the singing had been going for at least one evening and morning.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 10:42 a.m. CST

    She never mentions the word addiction in certain company . .

    by ElvisTCB

    This resolves nothing. Anyone who thinks Willow can stop cold turkey is deluded. Also how far has she really fallen? Not very. Buffy trying to stop cold turkey is ridiculous. She can&#39;t. She knows it. The garlic and cross may stop Spike but it won&#39;t stop her. That is where the problem is.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Buffy...

    by delwin

    I agree that these past episodes are setting the stage for something very big. There ARE too many unanswered questions. The one I really want to know is what&#39;s different about Buffy? Before this season, the creator and others warned that Buffy would come back but she wouldn&#39;t be the same Buffy. The Nerds Of Doom seem to be just comic relief for now. Dawn I think should be sent off to boarding school. Anya should become a vengence demon again, after Xander leaves her at the alter. Willow is not going to kick her habit so easily, those were some wild Zen trips! She&#39;s going to want to go back into these dream states, and use helping the Scoobies as an excuse, and really screw up. I love the Buffy/Spike story line. Now we need Dru to show up. I think that in late January all these clues and questions will come with a crashing answer, and the season will go back to what I love about the show, and shock the shit out of me. When the credits come up, my jaw will drop and I&#39;ll say, "That&#39;s not good!", like I always used to do with Buffy. These episodes are a build up for something big.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:04 p.m. CST

    I bet....

    by usagi

    ...that Willow really DOES taste like starwberries though. Overall a dissapointing episode.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:18 p.m. CST

    Another Slayer?!

    by eickhry

    I don&#39;t know if this has been mentioned previously, but has anyone else even thought of the possibility that there is another slayer out in the world somewhere. After all, Buffy did "die" at the end of last season, and if the legend that a new slayer is born when the old slayer dies is true, then there has to be another slayer out there. It&#39;s sort of weird that none of the characters in the show or Joss or the creative team behind Buffy has not ever mentioned this.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:21 p.m. CST

    POOR BLUEBALLED SPIKE/MATT ROUSH/WHY YOU COULDN&#39;T VOTE FOR "

    by Lt. Torello

    Welcome to my world, Spike. What does a guy have to do already?! He&#39;s saved her life and those of the Scoobies how many times now? He gets her info from sources that normally wouldn&#39;t be available to her. He&#39;s burned all his old bridges -- he&#39;s never going back to Dru or Harmony. So Spike was a baddie for a hundred or so years. Angelus was far worse (according to The Master) for a century longer and yet Buffy had no problems giving it up for him. For a view from the quote respectable press unquote, check out Matt Roush&#39;s rave for this season in TV Guide. Lastly, this may have been posted already -- I&#39;m at work and don&#39;t have time to read all the talkbacks -- but F/X didn&#39;t have "The Body" and "Hush" on the marathon ballot because UPN is rerunning them in December. Oh, and just to state the incredibly obvious, AMY IS HOT!!!!

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:26 p.m. CST

    Spike, the cheesy Jersey Disco King! What&#39;s with the tank to

    by superhero

    Next we&#39;ll see Spike dressed in a full sweatsuit with the jacket&#39;s front zipper halfway down as he saunters down Sunnydale munchin&#39; on a pretzel. Accompanying his jogging suit with the stripes down the sides of the legs and arms will be his new accessory of choice the dreaded "wifebeater" hanes tanktop shirt. Of, course old Spikey&#39;s new look would not be complete without the required bleach white sneakers and gold pinkie ring with its red ruby setting...

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Herc&#39;s format

    by Oompacabra

    Herc, you do some fine writing...sometimes, but this format is not working. If you must keep it, just ignore the rumors and stick to the episode at hand instead of even bothering with it.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:33 p.m. CST

    Oh, and Allison&#39; acting last night kicked ass!

    by superhero

    She, in my opinion, is one of the best actresses out there bar none.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:45 p.m. CST

    Oh baby, this episode rocked!

    by Chocky

    If only to see Spike naked, and naked again. How can the show suck when such a fine man is revealed in the buff? (heh heh). Beyond the nudity and James Marster&#39;s fine acting (whoever did the blocking in his scenes, it was excellent!), although Willow&#39;s magic trip was a transparent metaphor for drug addiction, I thought the effects were cool. And her acting was excellent, as well. <><><><><><> Dawny is a well-written and well-acted character. For pete&#39;s sake, she&#39;s a teenager! <><><><><> Forget what I said about Spike being over-used, as long as he&#39;s naked, he can be in every scene. Yum!

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Dawn/Xander/Sweet

    by St.Gordon

    You know, you&#39;re right about Spike and the dancing til they burn bit. Maybe, Spike is omniscient. That would fit in with the rest of the season. The part about Dawn summoning the thing, well, even though she actually took the necklace on that Tuesday, when they were talking in the shop about how someone brought it here, that is when she looked down and guiltily slipped it into the small of her back. Guilty because she was stealing, or guilty because she was hiding evidence? Joss wrote this episode, so for the sake of his genius reputation, I would hope that a simple Xander did it, with no back story, would not be the final word. Just my opinion, though. ****Spuffy 4Ever!***

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 12:59 p.m. CST

    two things - vengeance & Big Bad

    by seanti

    First, Anya already tried to gain back her demony powers and was refused, right? But wasn&#39;t Willow offered the option of becoming a vengeance demon (in S4)? So if Xander does indeed call it off with Anyam isn&#39;t the likelihood that she would ask another vengeance demon to whup Xander&#39;s ass? Second, when Buffy came limping into the kitchen all sore in the saddle from her night with Spike, didn&#39;t Dawn ask about a &#39;Big Bad&#39; only to be told by Buffy that there wasn&#39;t one?? Hmmmm....

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Manly men of Buffy

    by Chocky

    I think the reason why lots of you didn&#39;t like the past two episodes - you want to be the one to do Buffy, not Spike! And god forbid you should have to look at a mostly-naked man with a fine body, even though us het girls and gay boys have to look at Buffy and her gal-pals in revealing outfits every dang episode. <><><><><> Brian Thompson played Luke, the Master&#39;s main henchman in the pilot. He was also the big blue demon who was blown up by a rocket launcher in a later season. And he was the Buffalo Bill rip-off guy in -- shoot, I can&#39;t remember if it was "Joe Dirt" or the Jim Carrey movie with Renee Zelwiger. One of those two. Anyway, I was very disappointed when Luke got killed off, he was hot - a big, meaty, vamp with very sexual (even bisexual) vibes. If they brought Darla back, they can bring the Master and Luke back. That would be sweeeeet.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:03 p.m. CST

    McXander

    by Spoons

    I think some of us are overanalyzing the Once More With Feeling episode. My guess: Xander did it. I doubt there&#39;s anything more to it than that. It&#39;s kind of an unsatisfying explanation, but I think having Xander be the accidental culprit was just sort of a way to tie up the loose plot ends. A reverse-McGuffin. Oh, and by the way, I think everybody pretty much expected that people were dancing until they burned up. No Spiky omnicience required.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:10 p.m. CST

    McXander

    by Spoons

    I think some of us are overanalyzing the Once More With Feeling episode. My guess: Xander did it. I doubt there&#39;s anything more to it than that. It&#39;s kind of an unsatisfying explanation, but I think having Xander be the accidental culprit was just sort of a way to tie up the loose plot ends. A reverse-McGuffin. Oh, and by the way, I think everybody pretty much expected that people were dancing until they burned up. No Spiky omnicience required.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:18 p.m. CST

    tune in next week...

    by rev_skarekroe

    Can Willow overcome her crippling addiction? Is Anya and Xander&#39;s marriage finished before it begins? What will become of Dawn&#39;s increasing tendency toward juvenile delinquency? And how long can Buffy and Spike keep their forbidden love a secret? Grab your fuzzy pink slippers and a box of bon-bons and tune in to the next exciting installment of "Days of Buffy&#39;s Lives" sk

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Jeff Kober

    by Smitty1976

    This is the same guy that was in charge of the Nosferatu clan on Kindred right? Did anyone else love that show? I thought that was a well developed gothic and creepy vampire show much better then schizophrenically themed Buffy ( we are a serious drama, no we are joking and fun action show, no we are doing a musical variety episode, ok now we are serious again). Dont get me wrong, I like Buffy but I like the past seasons so much more.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:38 p.m. CST

    Anyone else catchy that DIRTY pun in the first scene?

    by Morty Viventi

    Buffy: "You&#39;re bent!" Spike: "Yeah. Made you scream, didn&#39;t it?" Lord. A g-spot joke in prime time.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:44 p.m. CST

    RE: Willow/Buffy

    by Lil' Bit

    Here&#39;s couple of thoughts. One -- we don&#39;t know if Willow kicked the habit. Most addicts (remember Robert Downey Jr?)try many times before they successfully become clean. Just because we see her trying - doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s going to happen. Two -- Buffy/Spike -- some relationships don&#39;t progress beyond what they are. And with Buffy and Spike, while the back and forth quarreling may become tiresome, this may be all they have to give to one another. There may never be a resolve. If this is the year they grow-up, well then they are dealing with grown up issues. Which is, there isn&#39;t always the happy ending and many things in one&#39;s life are never completed. No easy answers and obviously Buffy and Willow don&#39;t have the life experience to conquer all of life&#39;s troubles. Anyway, done that&#39;s my whatever.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 1:51 p.m. CST

    No more skin

    by Baltimore_MD

    I am starting to wonder if I am watching the same show. Spike naked is not a good thing. Skin and bones on a five foot frame is not something you want to fuck its something you put on a rack and a high carb diet. I think its unfortunate that FX is running the old episodes because it reminds me of how funny and scary the show was. Thank goodness we still have Angel to watch. Oh... and isn&#39;t her name Dawn, which is bad enough - all this Dawnie stuff was causing me to check out Gilmore Girls.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 2:06 p.m. CST

    Yes, Dawn should have died...

    by Morty Viventi

    ...in "The Gift". She would have fulfilled her purpose, perhaps wrung a few tears from us viewers, and thinned out the cast, not to mention spared us the painfully underwhelming "Buffy&#39;s dead! Now she&#39;s back!" debacle, in which the Buffy-bot ensured we didn&#39;t get to miss SMG for even half an episode. Now she lingers with no purpose other than to CONTINUALLY do stupid things to get into trouble (god, she should have been smacked for being so braindead in that Halloween episode, in which Dawn, an underage girl played by an underage actress, was creepily making out with that vamp played by a typical 27-year old "teen" actor, blissfully unaware he was a vampire). Incidentally, if Dawn is genetically identical to Buffy (that was the point of the climax of "The Gift", wasn&#39;t it?), does she have Slayer-strength? A final thought. Slayers should REALLY have a sixth sense for spotting vampires: an aura, a smell, anything to tell if someone&#39;s a soulless vamp? Buffy (and perhaps Dawn?)&#39;s raison d&#39;etre is fighting vamps, so she should be able to spot one easily. But of course, she can&#39;t.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 2:50 p.m. CST

    The problem with using the Dawn is just a teenager excuse

    by kodachikuno

    to defend her character&#39;s angsty whining, is that Buffy, Willow and Xander were also teenagers when the show started. But none of them were simpering fools. I think part of the reason I don&#39;t particularly care for Dawn is because Michelle Trachtenberg doesn&#39;t have the comic timing of the other actors. I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve ever laughed out loud at one of her lines, or quoted it the next day. (Although some of you seem to be getting some kicks from the meat party in my mouth line). I don&#39;t take issue with the season so far, just with the dead weight that is Dawn. ****** chonomai.com

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 3:06 p.m. CST

    eickhry

    by Spoons

    You&#39;ll probably never see this reply, what with the whacked order of the talkbacks, but the question of whether another slayer is coming has been addressed AD NAUSEUM. And Joss HAS addressed it, saying in an interview that the Slayer succession passed from Buffy to Kendra to Faith. We won&#39;t get another slayer until Faith bites it... my mind just went to a very happy place.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Does Dawn drive to find Tara because she can

    by Niaiserie

    What? No.... Anyone else find it great that Herc responds suprised to his own questions :) And no wonder those other reviews are so short, he spent all night typing up this novel. But good times altogether, how long do I gotta wait for another episode now? It&#39;s interesting that they&#39;ve seem to not be doing the throwaway episodes like they used to, every episode this season has been fairly plot relevant. I

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 3:39 p.m. CST

    season four and drugs

    by MargoFargo

    I was watching the reruns on FX and i am seeing a few episodes that i missed ans i wonder why i missed them. then i remember, oh yeah! season four sucked!(i just had to say that)*****I thought last nights drug metaphore thingy was really um...whats the word im looking for...STUPID! At first dispite everyone saying how much it would suck, i was interested to see how it was going to play out. but as i was watching it i was kinda thinking what the heck is this? when willow bursted out crying, i bursted out laughing. it was sad that she was crying and stuff cause i dont like when people cry (and i think alyson did a good job of acting crying) but they just took it over the edge. it was way too obviously metaphore-y for my tastes.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 4:34 p.m. CST

    BUTTERFLIES, MAN, BUTTERFLIES!!!

    by ArchDiver

    Check out the butterflies the ladies have been sporting on their chests. First I noticed was on Anya in the musical (bunny solo) and then one on Dawn last night. Harbingers of what&#39;s to come, man! Evolution, metamorphosis! Who will crawl into the cocoon first?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 4:39 p.m. CST

    Dawn of the Dull

    by Paul_Maul

    Yup, Dawn is lame. One of the main things that made this show interesting in days of old is that the teens were really fucking funny. Now it seems that "Buffy Speak"--$10 words and fanboy references--is used in all dialogue regardless of what characters are on the screen. And to make matters worse

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 5:03 p.m. CST

    Can anyone help?

    by Girl219

    Does anyone remember the scene when Doc is playing dominoes with a peroxide-free Spike? He even comments on Spike having a double when he meets Spike? What episode was that in? And was any resolution brought to that? Was it foreshadowing to something to come, or was J. just between takes with nothing better to do and decided to play extra?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 5:04 p.m. CST

    This is your brain on spells...

    by Darth Cheesi

    I agree that the whole Willow drug-addiction metaphor was pushed way too far with this episode. We already knew that she had a &#39;problem&#39; with magic, but until now the exact nature of the problem was vague enough to be interesting. Was it an addiction? An obsession? Had she crossed over to the darkside (maybe with that resurrection spell)? Now it&#39;s like the writer(s) are beating us over the head with the "Willow&#39;s on drugs" message. They&#39;ve even got Amy acting like a heroin addict, which is especially weird since she wasn&#39;t like that before. Didn&#39;t she know about this guy before the rat thing? Wouldn&#39;t she have already been acting like a junky when that happened? I think it would have been much more interesting if they had explored Willow&#39;s problem within the unique context of magic powers, instead of reducing it to a tired retelling of the "Drugs are Bad, M&#39;Kay?" story. Of course, I was personally rooting for the &#39;darkside&#39; theory (see nickname if you can&#39;t tell why ;) so maybe I&#39;m a bit biased. BTW, on the Spike is/isn&#39;t/is-too evil thing: I think it&#39;s only natural for him jump back into his vampish ways when he first gets (apparently) unleashed. He is a vampire after all; it&#39;s his nature, and a lot of his self-esteem/self-image is based on it. This doesn&#39;t mean that he would have continued that way long-term; once he got over the initial thrill/release/whatever, he might have realized that he no longer had the taste for killing (no pun intended). What&#39;s most interesting to me is that he didn&#39;t (seriously) try to bite Buffy, even though he could have. He worked out his aggression on here, knowing that she was tough enough to take it (and dish it out). But in the end he was still in love with her, unlike Angelos, who immediately started doing the &#39;kill everything you loved&#39; routine (as vamps are prone to do). If he did get free at this point, I doubt he would turn on the scoobs (well, except the annoying ones), even if he did start killing humans again. This shows real development on his part.

  • the problem is one of consistency. if something changes the established definition of a given element of the setting how could it NOT have come up before? how could some evil mastermind NOT have funded the operation for a few gullible new vampires, not telling them it would soon kill them, and then sick these unstoppable monsters on the slayer? it&#39;s too potent to NOT have been used before if it was a known procedure (which it clearly was). and in the same vein (heh) how could we have watched years of characters practicing magic and not in all this time heard of how drug-like and addictive magic is? it goes against it&#39;s established definition. if willow had become a hubris-ridden megalomaniac, as it at first appeared, it would not contradict the existing premise of magic. i guess the writer&#39;s aren&#39;t up to further developing these characters consistently. hey i know! let&#39;s just tear them down, degrade them and build them all up again as haunted wrecks that no longer resemble their former selves. it&#39;s the characters that keep me watching even when the stories weak. i just hate to see a show with a great premise wasted with hack writing that takes all the character form the characters. i&#39;ve regretfully given up on angel and smallville and it looks like buffy&#39;s next on my list. deep 13 out. push the button, frank.

  • but it&#39;s okay when you do it. deep 13 out. push the button, frank.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 5:52 p.m. CST

    Evil Magick Inconsistency

    by Spoons

    I&#39;m not as bothered by some by the fact that we are only seeing this Magick addiction problem for the first time. First, it seems clear that we are dealing with some particularly powerful and dark mojo here. We also know that Willow is a particularly strong natural witch, perhaps giving her uncommon access to the aforementioned dark mojo. In that case, perhaps only this kind of heavy-duty magick causes the really severe addiction symptoms. In other words, Willow is mainlining Horse while everyone else is eating marijuana brownies. Okay, if you don&#39;t like that explanation (or if you need a little more), maybe there is a differnt outcome depending on how you approach the magick. In the past, there was always a sense of respect and even reverence for the powers the witches were invoking--that&#39;s why we were subjected to all of the endless earth-mother-wicca-goddess crap all the time. Willow was also using spells primarily to help others. Now, though, she&#39;s using magick casually and for frivolous, selfish reasons. Maybe that makes it more addictive. Anyway, just a couple possibilities.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 5:55 p.m. CST

    Wrecked and Herc

    by yes, i am a perv

    First to the episode: crap-tastic not even a healthy helping of MT could make this thing worthy of watching again, yet still not as bad as I figured it would be. I think at this point I have such a low opinion of everything Marti Noxon writes that I automatically keep gutter level expectations so I&#39;ll never be disappointed in her episodes. Wrecked not only did a horrible job of ending sweeps, it took a hop, skip and Olympic medal size long jump over so many areas of logic and basic story development not to mention simple continuity and pacing. So Buffy and Spike did the deed, Spike acts like a dumb ass. I mean come on, I may not be Mr. Sensitivity, but even I know there are certain things you don&#39;t say to a woman after screwing her, especially if you have any chance (any chance at all) of going back to the promised land with the chick. Not to be a silly fanboy about this but, Spike (the real, coherent, none multiple personality disorder suffering Spike) would never be dumb enough to say crap like that when he was that close to getting more Buffy love. And that is a major failing so far this season (and last), Spike seems to speak with a different voice in every episode depending on who&#39;s doing the writing and how much they love/hate Spike in general and B/S in particular. That is just not working, no more than Willow as smack-head is working. I never felt squat about the whole Willow hitting bottom in this Very Special Episode of BTVS because the writers never bothered to show Willow&#39;s "magic addiction" decline, until this ep. Even heroin takes more than one time to get you that down on your knees pathetic. The whole thing felt rushed and lazy like they needed this storyline to be at this point by this episode of the season but couldn&#39;t be bothered to flesh it out and make it in anyway believable for the character. I&#39;ve seen better developed story arcs on Charmed and that is so not a compliment. Other Wrecked low points: 1. Xan and An have officially become pointless. Either kill them, marry them or how about marry them and then kill them. 2. Wow, how bad was the stunt work in that Buffy vs. Hell Beast fight scene. 3. Buffy&#39;s the slayer, right, Buffy the Slayer has never had any problem kicking Spike&#39;s ass before, right; so why is Buffy the Vampire Slayer cowaring in her room surrounded by every clove of garlic in the state of California holding on to a little wooden cross. Buffy, you don&#39;t want Spike bothering you, threatening to bite you and hanging around like some undead mack daddy waiting for you to fall into bed with him, then go find Mr. Pointy, head over to the love crypt and stake his skinny ass. 4. Speaking of skinny asses; James you&#39;re a hell of an actor man, but please, please keep your clothes on. 5. Herc, I love your reviews. I love that you try to cover a variety of tv shows (though not Farscape nor Felicity and very little Gilmore Girls lately, bad Herc). But to give this shitty ep four stars is just nuts. I understand being a Buffy fanatic but accepting any old crap just cause it&#39;s a new Buffy episode makes all of your reviews look suspect.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 5:56 p.m. CST

    when i saw spike i thought...

    by deep 13

    cool! establish precidence with spike so as not to arouse accusations of "sexism" and then do an "nypd blue" to the show involving nudity of all characters. i&#39;d happily sit through a naked xander (or even giles!) scene if it meant i was in for a willow, anya or buffy romp! we would sadly have to wait years for dawn to join in the equal-oppertunity nudity (man, where was she when i was 15? i feel ripped off cause all i had was facts of life) deep 13 out. push the button, frank.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 6:05 p.m. CST

    spoons

    by deep 13

    that&#39;s a good explanation, but i wish the show would provide rationals rather than force us to do it. i don&#39;t mind having to put two and two together but i don&#39;t want to become a buffy-appologist constantly comming up with reasons for inconsistancies. anyway, i gotta get back to work. deep 13 out. push the button, frank.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 6:07 p.m. CST

    enough with all the big bad speculation!

    by cheesegirl

    that said, here&#39;s my theory. willow, total red herring. ive gotta go with amy. i dont no, im just gettin a evil-y vibe. of course that mite just be the denial talking. i guess i just dont want 2 believe its willow. and worse that she&#39;s gonna bite it this season.she cant, she cant, she cant!

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:08 p.m. CST

    wow

    by MargoFargo

    i havent seen willow cry like that since oz left.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:08 p.m. CST

    wow

    by MargoFargo

    i havent seen willow cry like that since oz left.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Willow&#39;s visions?

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    Is the (apparently) dead or unconscious woman carried away by the demon that Willow glimpses briefly in her hallucinatory haze a prophetic vision, metaphorical, or just some Freaky Shit? Who knows, and who knows if it will tie into things later in the season. Maybe it&#39;s prophetic and that woman was Tara. I could see Tara trying to save Willow from crashing again. If Tara gets killed off this season, I see it happening because she confronts the warlock. The warlock may kill Tara and then frame it on Buffy, who, after all, is getting accusations of being a demon. I agree now -- upon a second viewing, I think the warlock could be our Big Bad. Why has he been doing what he does for these kids? (And notice how all his clients were young adults.) He would present a formidable challenge to Buffy. He&#39;s human (apparently) and so are his followers, but they are amped with super witchcraft powers. The warlock is like a Pied Piper, which fits perfectly with the "growing up" theme this season. When Buffy fought those two human muggers in the alleyway, that could have been foretelling of what kind of enemy she will be fighting in the finale. And consider how difficult it will be for Buffy to go against him if Willow is under his spell, Tara is dead, and even chipped Spike is unable to fight against this human enemy and his drugged out human minions. This is perhaps how Amy and the Nerds could fit in (unless Amy also becomes part of the warlock&#39;s minions) on the Scoob&#39;s side. The Nerd trio have the spellcasting and technology. Furthermore, we&#39;ve been led to think that all the tests they put Buffy through, and data gathered about her, will be used against her. But what if alliances do a complete 180 by season&#39;s end, and the Nerds&#39; data on Buffy is used to ENHANCE Buffy&#39;s fighting powers against the warlock? (Remember, Warren made the Buffybot, and it was able to slay vampires pretty well, so he does know a bit about her fighting skills.) What could be a better, more metaphorical final conflict for this season&#39;s "oh grow up" theme than for Buffy to bring down a Pied Piper warlock who tempts his young followers to remain in a perpetual adolescent state?

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:30 p.m. CST

    Spike and Doc

    by Funkaboo

    I don&#39;t think they ever showed the scene where Doc was playing dominoes with someone that looked like Spike but Doc did mention that he thought Spike was someone else when he and Dawn went to inquire about a spell to raise Buffy&#39;s mom. So to answer your question the reference episode would be...hold on, let me check my episode guide..."Forever".****Someone else mentioned that they haven&#39;t seen Willow like that since Oz left- I was just thinking the same exact thing. The epi "Wild At Heart" just finished on FX and Willow brokedown much like last night&#39;s epi. ****

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:44 p.m. CST

    Time shifting

    by VarietyWriter

    Dear Professor, wanted to pipe in and say I enjoy your analysises on the shows. While everybody is talking about Spike&#39;s hard on for Buffy, if he&#39;s evil or not, Dawn&#39;s legs, who should be killed off, beers and cheeting, and so on, you&#39;re one of the few who actually bothers to do a throughly thoughtful breakdown on what may happen with this season&#39;s arc. Your speculation sounds spot on to me - so much so that I wonder if Ms. Noxon could be pissed at you. I&#39;ve always wondered where the Nerdy Trio&#39;s alliances will finally fall. That episode where they fucked around with Buffy for example....the whole deal where Warren is time-shifting Buffy around. I imagined then, what if this time shifty tech was done in reverse so Buffy could zip around an enemy? Warren was fucking with her but it seems that technology could also be used to give Buffy the upper hand against a Big Bad.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 7:45 p.m. CST

    HOW THE SIXTH SEASON SHOULD HAVE PLAYED OUT

    by Lt. Torello

    Okay, as we&#39;re now about half-way done with a rather lackluster season, I&#39;m gonna toss out an alternate Sixth Season storyline. First, Buffy stays dead &#39;til the end of November sweeps. Don&#39;t worry, SMG still has plenty to do in various dream and fantasy sequences, plus we get more of the Buffybot. Willow doesn&#39;t have enough command of magick yet to do the resurrection spell, which is what leads her to Rack the Warlock. Giles has warned her not to go, but Spike eggs her on &#39;cause he still loves the slayer. Meanwhile, Anya tells Xander she&#39;s pregnant. Now right here, we&#39;ve got enough character-driven stuff to go at least ten eps into the fall sweeps, with lots of comedy (Buffybot, pregant Anya, father-to-be Xander) and darkness (Willow sliding into the magick abyss, Spike pushing her "addiction" for his own selfish ends). Buffy finally is resurrected at the end of sweeps, leaving us on the edge of our seats until January when we find that some sort of cosmic continuum was dirupted by Buffy&#39;s return and so the powers that be need a death to balance things out...and here&#39;s where we go real dark...Xander and Anya lose their baby. Buffy finally falls for Spike, almost rejects him when she sees the toll its taken on Willow, but stays with him &#39;cause, hell, he&#39;s the only guy who knows what she&#39;s been through. Willow is weened off the magick by Giles (yeah, he sticks out the season in my universe) in some powerful Emmy-worthy eps. Grief stricken Anya and Xander part, as Anya blames Buffy and Willow for the loss of their child and Anya becomes a demon again. The whole thing leads to a showdown between the newly resurrected Buffy and magick-less Willow vs. Vengeance Demon Anya, with Xander having to choose between his lielong friends and the love of his life. Oh, and Dawn? Fuck Dawn! Okay, flame away but you know that would be more interesting than this season.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 8:25 p.m. CST

    Lt. Torello

    by Funkaboo

    I can&#39;t say that would be better than the real season 6 since it&#39;s not done yet but that all sounds very interesting. I&#39;d still watch it. Don&#39;t know if I&#39;d want to wait till end of Nov. to see Buffy though then have to wait another two months to pick up where it left off.

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 11:38 p.m. CST

    Amys Role

    by BloodyHell

    Hey, I just wanted to chime in with my theory on the amy deratting. #1 Amy was a rat for 3+ Years. #2 Joss had said in an interview that he wouldnt bring her back unless there was a good reason. #3 Willow going all addicted to magic (drug metaphor) could have been done virtually the same without amy. Who would have noticed the difference if Willow heard about rack from one of a dozen other characters in sunnydale. This all leads up to my theory that Willow will indeed lose her battle with magic addiction and go bad. Now that Willow is as powerful as she is, it would be right to assume that buffy would be unable to fight Willows magic (as was proven in many previous episodes ,Something Blue, Two weeks agos Memory loss episode, etc...). So the writers needed a witch who was close in strength but not quite equal to Willow to put some sort of magic protection spell around the Scoobs. It is my belief that Amy will ultimately join the scoobies in a foil to Willows ever darkening power. Later...

  • Nov. 28, 2001, 11:55 p.m. CST

    wrecked

    by Buffy Junkie

    has anyone paid attention to what was said and wasn&#39;t said in wrecked???? case 1:willow/when will went to rack with amy he told her that you have to give a little to get a little. when he touched her he told her he was going to take a look around. what was he looking for?? when the demon approached will and dawn he said to will that she summond him. im pretty sure willow will fall off the wagon. which leads me to belive that willow be the one who summonds the true big bad. i also belive that tara is more a powerfull witch then willow. ever notice how whenever someone says that they sense power that we are lead to belive that it is directed at willow. i mean whenever it&#39;s said tara was always near willow. case 2:buffy/spike: the morning after there night together when buffy was getting dressed and spike grabbed her she was all to willing to go at it agin untill he made that stupid comment about how much better is to f**k a slayer than to kill one. she got up all pissed off saying to him is that all it was to you. call me crazy but she seemed some what hurt by that statement. which is why she got him back by saying that he was convient. also when they were walking downtown looking for rack&#39;s hideout. spike told buffy that he loved her and that he know&#39;s she feels something for him. buffy then told spike that it wasn&#39;t love. my point is she didn&#39;t say it was hate or disgust like she normaly would. that last scene with her sitting on her bed with the cross and garlic leads you to belive she did all that to keep spike out. i belive she did that to keep herself from letting spike in. i belive i have rambled long enough.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:29 a.m. CST

    Bloody Hell:

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    I agree. I predict that Amy could be the hedge Buffy will use against Willow. But I think it&#39;s going to be a while before Amy joins the Scoobs. She&#39;s not necessarily "good" right now (what, with breaking into Buffy&#39;s house and stealing stuff). In the interim I see it possible that she may hook up with the Nerds but only after their master plan fails. If she and the Nerds are to join the Scoobs at season&#39;s end, then they need to both head down a path of good on their own before it&#39;ll be believable for them to help the Scoobs. I&#39;m betting that the Warlock is our Big Bad and he&#39;ll trick Willow into helping him. Tara is a goner because it seems like Amy was deratted by the writers to replace Tara. Tara&#39;s death at the hands of the Warlock and him framing Buffy for it would separate Buffy and Willow from one another. I predict she could die in a March episode. I&#39;ll even go so far as to say that Xander may break it off with Anya later this season. I think in the musical episode he expressed doubts about whether Anya was the one really for him. As bizarro as this may sound, based on what&#39;s happened in episodes so far and what we know may be happening in future episodes, I could see the Scoobs next season consisting of Buffy, Spike, ComputerWillow (all her witchcraft powers were destroyed in the Season 6 finale), Xander, Dawn, Amy and Warren (yes, Warren). Tara is dead, and Anya is written out of the series -- she decides to move on with her life and leaves Sunnydale, thus, giving Xander an episode where he gets to angst over a loved one who leaves him. If Warren being a Scoobie sounds far-fetched, remember: Spike. If Warren and the Nerds become reformed by this season&#39;s end, this might be more acceptable and believable. (For some reason, I see him and Amy hooking up later this season. This, too, might change his character, and alter the way we look at him. Also, if the writers are intending for Xander and Anya to break up, maybe an Amy and Warren coupling is what they have in mind to replace it.) Finally, it seems to me like the writers for now are holding back having Buffy directly interacting with the Nerds, and in the last episode she didn&#39;t confront the Warlock. It feels like they&#39;re saving these encounters for something big or significant in mind.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 3:05 a.m. CST

    Prof. Pop Cult

    by Thalya

    I like your Xander/Anay breakup idea, only, in keeping with our other two main Scoobs (Buff & Will) (and I&#39;m inspired by tonight&#39;s next-to-last Oz ep ever), Anya goes all vengeance demony again but comes to her senses, only realizes she can&#39;t change that part of her and so goes away to protect Xander from herself. Hopefully things won&#39;t be redundant like that, but it&#39;d be neat to see each of them go through something like that and the bonding that takes place. As for Warren as a Scoob next season, nah, though the him and Amy idea might work...but I really see potential for Jonathon, Yes, JONATHON. Danny Strong has earned his dues throughout the whole series. Wouldn&#39;t it be interesting to see how far he&#39;s come? Besides, Amy went to school with him and not Warren, there could be some unknown chemistry or lack thereof which might later change (more possible ways to laugh at the Nerds, if you think about it.:). Though it&#39;d be even more silly if the whole troika stayed about in guest-starring roles and became the real lone gunmen of the show. ..and one last thing that came to me. 2 of the 3 Geeks of Doom are magic-users. Methinks we might see one or both of them popping up at Rack&#39;s at least once in the near future. Anyone see more connections, call &#39;em! *poof*

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Whats with you people?

    by Spdoinkle

    What you all need is patience. These are the people who have brought us this f&#39;ing fantastic show for 5 seasons now, have a little faith that they know what their doing. And whats with all the complaining about Buffy and Spike being together, I seem to remember alot of people wishing, hoping and praying that they would get together only a little while ago. As for the Willow addiction to magic thing. One thing you should now. Once a junkie always a junkie, if you give it up you&#39;ll only be a junkie that doesn&#39;t use. One of the first things the tell you in rehab, is that its pretty much expected for you to fall off the wagon at least once in the first 6 weeks. Anyway, I think Buffy should be the big bad. Shes the only one who hasn&#39;t changed since season one, still whinning about her life, still falling for the wrong guys. She&#39;s very much due for some character changes.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 8:59 a.m. CST

    Why Buffy didn&#39;t come back "right"

    by roar822

    It occurred to me that Buffy keeps telling us over and over that she was in Heaven when Willow & Co. pulled her back. She&#39;s not human any more; not because she&#39;s a demon, but because, having been in Heaven, she&#39;s now, literally, an angel. At least, that&#39;s what I&#39;m betting :-) Leo

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 10:26 a.m. CST

    so Spikes banging an angel???

    by sundown

    the bastard! Nice theory...

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:12 a.m. CST

    ***MAJOR SPOILERS***

    by Thenser1

    Alright, since it hasnt appeared on here by now, here is some major SPOILAGE about upcoming episodes and who the BIG Bad really is... ***WARNING**** In the next episode, Willow relapses after she tries to do some "good" magic for Buffy to help her locate a demon. This causes a major fight between Willow, Dawn, Tara & Buffy. Buffy ends up asking Willow to leave the house until she straightens up. Amy goes to Rack and finds out that he doesnt want her around unless she brings Willow back because she&#39;s "special". The following episode deals with Buffy getting a job serving Human Burgers to customers while Willow tries in vane to not use magic (Amy tempts her into casting a small spell, WHOOPS!) Amy is experiencing major withdrawl from Rack&#39;s special touch. Xander also begins to doubt whether being married to a vengance demon is the right move. The next episode is all about Xander&#39;s bachelor party from Hell (which Spike arranges). Spike also gives a "Special present" to Xander in form of one Horny Vampiress who is all over him. After getting drunk Spike lets it slip that he and Buffster did the deed nasty-style shocking Xander. Also the Troika are back with a bad ass new spell that requires just a bit of Slayer blood. On to the next episode Buffy who can&#39;t deal with her constant relapses with Spike breaks down and tells the scoobs all about it and vows that she will not let it happen again. She then tells Spike to get out of Sunnydale and Spike learns that the scoobs know about his fling with the Slayer, and assumes that Xander screwed him. Being the poster child for anger management Spike gets the bodacious vamp from Xander&#39;s bachelor party to tell Anya that She and Xander screwed around. A distraught Anya is offered her powers back if she promises to take Xander out with a level 10 vengence spell. Amy ends up getting Willow to relapse (AGAIN) and visit Rack who reveals just what he NEEDS Willow for... ------------------------ Who&#39;s da man?

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Thanks Spoons

    by eickhry

    Thanks for the reply. It does make sense that Faith would have to die. You are a lifesaver.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Thenser1

    by Spoons

    Okay, what do we know about this Thenser1 person? Those spoilers sound pretty plausible, but are they reliable? Is Thenser1 a known good source, a known crackpot, an unknown newbie? Are these spoilers showing up a lot elsewhere (as is implied)? Despite my better judgement, I&#39;ll admit that my gut instinct is to believe this source and these spoilers for some reason, but I&#39;m curious if we know anything more about their reliability.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 12:54 p.m. CST

    Thenser1/Spoon

    by calvinthefish

    Not only do those spoliers sound viable, but they sound good! Just what the rest of the season needs to blow us out of the water. Because until now, the musical episode has been the only thing to really impress me. Although Smashed had some great humor.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Reliability

    by Thenser1

    Spoons, As you know anyone can say ANYTHING on the internet and it doesnt necessarily have to be true, however, SOME of you may know that I posted spoilers to the last few episodes quite awhile back, and was banned from posting because (Im assuming here) I offended Herc by asserting my OPINION that he was in Whedon&#39;s back pocket. Don&#39;t get me wrong, Whedon is GREAT, and Herc has a great format for his reviews and spoilers, but... he never really releases anything SIGNIFICANT and I cant help but wonder what the point is of having a spoiler that doesnt SPOIL. If People didnt want to read these things they wouldnt be here, eh? I&#39;d read these messages as quick as you can, because no doubt they will be erased (like my last ones). I have been asked, and am considering having my own spoiler site for Buffy because it seems my access to these are ... better than a few of the other people. As for whether Im reliable or not, well, I guess if you read my last posts on here, you&#39;d have an answer and if you didnt and read this one, then you will when the next episode airs, eh? Btw, I dont dislike Herc, or aint-it-cool-news.com, but it is sad that censorship seems to be "OK" when a differing opinion is aired, or when you post ascoop before them. You&#39;d think that MAYBE they&#39;d email and ask me where Im getting these from so they&#39;d have access, but nope, whomever for whatever reason seems to think that by burning they are more effective. Therser(1)

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 1:59 p.m. CST

    Deep 13

    by Chocky

    Yo Deep 13, how did I offend thee exactly? I was pointing out that some of us need some male objectification to balance out the female objectification on Buffy (and every other TV show, and every form of media in Western culture). I was going to say "something for us girls to look at" but then figured I&#39;d better not stereotype all Buffy fans as heterosexual, so I amended my comment. <><><><><> Oh nice name by the way. "OK Droppo - drop &#39;em."

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:06 p.m. CST

    Willow and Season 6

    by Psynapse

    After Tuesday night&#39;s episode I have to come out and say that ANYONE who disses How well written Willow&#39;s character was and/ or Allison&#39;s performance was, obviously HAS NEVER dealt with someone who had an addiction. When it comes to partying, I&#39;ve kicked more ass than most people have sat on and Willow lying on the ground sobbing at the horror of her actions was a scene I&#39;ve witnessed in real life all too often. Everyone bitching about the magic/drugs metaphor-SHUT UP because you have no idea what it is really like for these people. Even the dialogue between Will and Buffy during the denoument was pretty realistic. Post-denial stage-Most addict&#39;s purge themselves of what they&#39;ve been hiding to someone close to them.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Thenser1

    by Spoons

    Thanks for the reply post, Thenser. I&#39;m glad you don&#39;t seem to take offense at my questioning of your credibility: as you pointed out, anyone can say anything. Unfortunately, although I&#39;ve probably read your spoilers before, I never paid attention to the name. I&#39;m looking forward to seeing whether these pan out. Even if they don&#39;t, they&#39;re fun to speculate about. Let me add my voice to the chorus of wishing that Herc would tell all that he knows about the episodes. I don&#39;t quite see the point of holding back. Still, I&#39;d rather have flawed reviews than none, so I appreciate his efforts. (Blatant ass-kiss to avoid banning). Your spoilers seem to have stayed up for a while, so perhaps Herc has mellowed--although it wasn&#39;t that many months ago that he came down pretty hard on me for complainint about the old Iron Monkey popups--a complaint I stand by, by the way. I&#39;m rambling now.

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:49 p.m. CST

    Thenser is da man

    by Funkaboo

    I cannot lie. He has hooked us up before. He was the first one to talk about the Willow going down on Tara levitation thing during the musical episode. I thought he was full of it thinking they wouldnt show that on tv. Afterwards, I wrote him telling him he was da man. I say I don&#39;t want spoilers, but *sigh* I do. I will watch no matter what. Now just a few questions...1. What kind of "relapses" are we talking about re: Buffy and Spike? 2. Will there be an all new Buffy epi in December like rumored or do we have to wait till January, if so when in January? 3. When exactly do we find out why Spike can hit Buffy with no migraines? Nina

  • Nov. 29, 2001, 11:57 p.m. CST

    Another question for Thenser and a comment on Herc

    by Funkaboo

    Thenser, ummmm so who IS the BIG bad? Rack? And I happen to be one of those people that really don&#39;t mind when Herc holds back. I&#39;m not so sure if it&#39;s because he&#39;s in anyone&#39;s pocket so much as maybe he doesn&#39;t like to TOTALLY spoil it. I can usually guess what&#39;s going to happen by his comments cause he usually puts little inside jokes in there to help you along. Remember the holy mackarel comment when talking about the loan shark? The only Buffy review that I didn&#39;t like was this last one. It didn&#39;t give enough away but after watching the epi, there wasn&#39;t that much TO give away. Thenser, you can be my spoiler pusher-man anytime. N.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:19 a.m. CST

    hey chocky

    by deep 13

    hey chocky my only reason for getting bent stems from my getting repeatedly flamed and harassed by people who have misread my postings in the past. you know how that goes; i say something like "you don&#39;t have to be white to be a racist" and i get people reading a whole different meaning than was intended and putting me down so they can feel self-righteous. well, i interpreted your post as the same old "all guys are dopey homophobes" that is heard perpetually in entertainment and commercials and i thought &#39;hey, i&#39;d get slammed for saying anything so generalizing and stereotypical about women or gays. so why is it always okay to rip on guys?&#39;. sorry if i&#39;m the one who over reacted this time. cool? deep 13 out. push the button, frank.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 12:20 a.m. CST

    and psynapse123

    by deep 13

    and psynapse123 i wasn&#39;t saying that willow&#39;s portrayal of an addict wasn&#39;t well done. i&#39;m saying that they never established that magic was addictive in all the years the shows been on. it seems this was a new idea that was laid over the existing concept with no concern for continuity. all so they could have willow&#39;s character stripped of all the personality that i watch the show for in the first place. now she&#39;s got the "struggling junkie" template grafted over her character and she&#39;ll go from being an interesting and unique character to being just another struggling junkie. i&#39;ve seen it a million times and it&#39;s boring and a waste (just like junkies in real life). could the writers really not come up with any actual character development for her? she&#39;ll never be the same willow again (if she ever is then they will be belittling the very subject of addiction). we have lost "willow" forever and gained "willow the struggling junkie" forever. yay. deep 13 out. push the button, frank.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 1 a.m. CST

    Deep 13 - Junky Willow

    by Girl219

    Aren&#39;t you getting all the attention tonight? :-) You know,it doesn&#39;t have to be Willow, the struggling junky, per se. Not trying to trivialize drug addiction in any way, but I&#39;ve known people who were heavy users and who quit cold and never touched drugs again. Or some who quit the heavy use and did it recreationally, no consequences. Or some who crashed and burned... or quit and struggle every day... and then there are the people who are dead. The problem I have with drug-related movies/plotlines are that most present only one scenario. I&#39;d be totally blown away if the writers took this plotline and explored it in a new way. Like if Willow learned to respect magic, and not abuse her power (which is basically what she&#39;s been doing - you don&#39;t exactly harness forces of nature or whatever magic is to change your outfit. Its like setting off the A-bomb to light a cigarette). And as for no build-up showing her becoming an addict... I had problems with that,too. But they&#39;re focussing on the self-esteem angle, which is the only way I could accept it. She thinks she&#39;s better on magic... like some people think they&#39;re sexier on coke, or happier on X, than they could ever be without it. Just my thoughts on the subject.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 1:17 a.m. CST

    ...and while I&#39;m here

    by Girl219

    I&#39;d bet every cent I have that Rack is the big-bad. Its so damn obvious. I can&#39;t really understand how Amy could be a believable big bad...she&#39;s not even a believable junkie. I mean, she&#39;s been clean for 3 years,... all she should be craving are sunflower seeds.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 6:59 a.m. CST

    why watch at all?

    by limpsalot

    After reading some of the comments in this thread I can only ask one question? Why do you people watch the show at all? I&#39;m not talking about the ones that dislike an episode for whatever reason. I&#39;m talking about the ones that seem to actually hate the Buffy show, the ones that like to use the "jumped the shark" phrase, the ones that like to say the show "sucks since the fourth season, the ones that think that, since Marti Noxon got a bigger say in things, there hasn&#39;t been a decent episode. To those people i&#39;d like to say: Please stop watching the show, because every episode you hate is another 40 minutes of your life you&#39;ll never get back. And please stop bitching about it here, because you&#39;re spending time writing about something you hate while you could be doing something you actually like. I don&#39;t mean to say that you can&#39;t bitch about an episode or whatever, but when you truly hate the show since S4, you really should look for another TV program. Life&#39;s too short. End rant

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 9:45 a.m. CST

    Deep 13.....

    by Psynapse

    I have to agree with you, they have pretty much written themselves into corner here. Oh wait, I get it. magic when used for other isn&#39;t addictive but magic used selfishly is. My point was merely to express how realistic that performance was on Tuesday and how close it hit to home. That said, you&#39;re ABSOLUTELY right-Junkies get boring FAST. Also, the box of Cap&#39;n Crunch was empty when I got up that morning so someone somewhere had to pay.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 1:07 p.m. CST

    A few things...

    by Lily Drop

    ... even tho this thread is dead (or maybe not, since this is the last BUFFY thread for a while). ******* I did not like the last two episodes. Why? Poorly written, heavy-handed, and lack of focus. I am not saying I dislike the DIRECTION some of these plot lines are going in, with the exception of the tired-and-out-of-no-where Willow plot; but see below for my comments on THAT. ******** OK, the addiction angle. I think it is tired. I think it is dragging down a decent character that I have loved, and turning her into someone I do not like. Yes, I know with addiction this happens in real life. However, BUFFY is not real life. This season (which I have liked up until SMASHED/CRASHED) seems to be all about tearing down all of the characters just to build them up again by season&#39;s end. But to see Willow reach such a low point has left a bad taste in my mouth. Also, as others have pointed out, this addiction, as portrayed in the last two episodes, has come out of no where. Never have the writters said spells themselves were addictive, or were used as highs by certain people. Never has anyone ever mentioned that doing magic could = doing drugs. What has been said about magic is interesting, and I don&#39;t know why the writters didn&#39;t follow the mythology they have already created: that dark magic users have to pay a price, it can corrupt, etc. How much more interesting it would have been to see Willow seduced by the power, and sinking deeper and deeper into darkness, rather than getting a cheap crack-house high? And since when does magic give a high? BLAH. ****** For those of you commenting that "if you don&#39;t like it, don&#39;t watch" I have this to say: please. I mean really. I don&#39;t think we have any trolls on here right now who are saying "BUFFY SUX!". Everyone here is a fan. Yeah, some people may be picky, but the bottom line is, those of us who are unhappy with parts of the show right now have a right to our opinions. Just because some people have problems with how things are going doesn&#39;t mean they don&#39;t like BUFFY. Personally, I feel like they have always set the bar so high that when the creators mess up (IMHO), I can call them on it. Do I think BUFFY had reached an X-FILES low? No. But I think right now, they are taking the easy way out, making drama for drama&#39;s sake, and not staying true to the charactors or mythology. ******* What ever happened to that Xander guy? Anyone remember him? I really liked him. I wonder why they wrote him out of the show? >snerk<

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:36 p.m. CST

    girl219

    by deep 13

    i think you&#39;re right about the person&#39;s approach to magic being crucial, but if it&#39;s behavior related the "addiction" should be psychological rather than physical as it appears to be. if willow used a spell like the one she used to enter catatonic buffy on herself she could confront her own inner impulses (her imp of the perverse if you will) and come out of this situation wiser but still willow. and even if she learns to discipline her behavior, she&#39;s not out of the woods yet. in the case of powerful witches who&#39;s to say that strong but repressed subconscious urges don&#39;t manifest in a physical form (sneaky, plotting homunculus, anyone?) i like that idea. i hope those guys do read these talkbacks. deep 13 out. push the button, frank.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 3:38 p.m. CST

    chocky! hi-keba!

    by deep 13

    i forgot to thank you for the compliment. good night McCloud.

  • Nov. 30, 2001, 9:31 p.m. CST

    If anyone&#39;s still reading this...

    by Thalya

    I think everyone is mis-seeing this addiction thing. We knew from the moment Will picked up that Darkest Magic book in Tough Love that there were going to be big consequences and then even bigger ones in Bargaining. Dark Magic = Darkness = Negativity = Pulling/Need/Yearning = Empty Spot Needing to be Filled. I&#39;m betting the stuff itself takes of the magic user, say, her soul (which we all know ties in with conscience and energy and stuff), and Rack&#39;s influence is particularly aggravating that, hence the addiction and the power kick and the lessened sense of morality, etc... Everyone here is expecting that that&#39;s it, that they&#39;re finished with exposition where the influence of dark magic is concerned since she&#39;s now in "recovery". But aren&#39;t we still wondering what Rack was doing when he put his hand to Willow&#39;s chest and "looked around"? If it seems that the Big Bad is tilting towards Rack, then his evil nefarious scheme and all the details have yet to be unravelled, including said black magic influence. It&#39;s obvious that the characters just know plain and simple that the dark arts aren&#39;t good, but they don&#39;t know why exactly aside from the evidence they&#39;ve seen that the practitioners don&#39;t do good deeds and hurt people. They&#39;ve never really explored the corruption of the actual user before. I understand the handling of the material wasn&#39;t very good and heavy-handed and all, but I&#39;m wondering if there was supposed to be an element of distraction in it all. Also, I really sympathize with those saying "look what the writers have done to one of our favorite characters!", but I&#39;m thinking there might be an interesting hope too. If what we&#39;re expecting is a magicless Willow at the end of the season, possibly with a breakdown of sorts, she&#39;s right back where she began in a full circle: timid, shy, lovable and loving. If we&#39;re lucky they might even tone down the addiction theme to a reasonable level, in which case there&#39;s a chance that, though struggling ever after with an addiction, she might come to the perfect in-between-extremes personality level like she was in S3 (though maybe without magic this time). Since I doubt many will read this I&#39;ll also post this at the beginning of the next talkback whenever that is. *poof*

  • Dec. 1, 2001, 2:02 a.m. CST

    with the talkback out of order, I doubt anyone will read this, b

    by Lily Drop

    I just want to say one thing: I have no problem with Willow being addicted to magik. That has been hinted at for a long time. The problem I have is how it has been portrayed in the last two episodes: a strict drug metaphor. I don&#39;t think it&#39;s clever or thought-provoking, which is what I think the writers were going for. There has been no build up to this twist, it has come out of nowhere. Willow addicted to magik = cool, hinted at, and understandable. Magik addiction being EXACTLY like crack addiction = heavy handed, lazy, and boring. I still say it would have been much more interesting to see the magik gradually leach away at Willow&#39;s soul, and completely consume her, BUT NOT IN A CRACK HOUSE. I wanted to see Willow pay for what she has done in a more mystical way, in keeping with the fact that she is dealing with mystical forces. Rack still could have been used as a pied-piper type, but we really didn&#39;t need the whole magik/crack metaphor shoved down our pipes. Like I said, this whole thing seems really lazy and out of left field.

  • Dec. 3, 2001, 2:01 p.m. CST

    buffy & spike

    by slayer5

    i was just wondering, if Buffy didn&#39;t want to see Spike why she just didn&#39;t uninvite him. It&#39;s been done before with both Spike and Angel.If she did that then he couldn&#39;t come in and she wouldn&#39;t need the cross or garlic.

  • Dec. 3, 2001, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Garlic and crosses

    by Girl219

    I was thinking the same thing... why doesn&#39;t she just un-invite him again? Here&#39;s my theory: When she told Dawn that the "big bad" she was "fighting" the night before wasn&#39;t a threat to her family Buffy meant it. She isn&#39;t afraid that Spike will do any harm to her or to the people she loves... I mean, that whole speaking glance moment between her and Spike before she deals with Willow and Spike takes Dawn somewhere safe proves for the umpteenth time that she loves him. So there is no real reason to uninvite him. She just wants to keep him away from her... and here&#39;s a general call out. Does anyone else like S/B couple better than A/B couple? I mean, as a character I think Spike is a hell of alot more interesting, and honestly a better person... uh, vampire... you know what I mean. Am I totally alone on this?

  • Dec. 3, 2001, 5:03 p.m. CST

    Girl219, not alone

    by Naia

    Of course you&#39;re not alone on the B/S thing. I for one, much prefer Spike. Angel was too moody. And I dunno if the "speaking glance" (good term btw) meant that she loves him. As much as I&#39;d like to think that, it was prolly just understanding and friendship. Please convince me otherwise, cuz I want B/S to work.

  • Dec. 3, 2001, 6:08 p.m. CST

    Typo from the subcons...

    by Girl219

    Oops, sorry about that. I meant to write that I thought the speaking glance proved for the umpteenth time that she TRUSTS him... don&#39;t know where the love thing came from, except maybe some subconscious (sp?) questions I&#39;m asking about a relationship I&#39;m currently in. I thought Angel was way to moody, too. Glad to hear someone else say it. I never was feeling that relationship... but I&#39;m not much into the star-crossed thing. Anyway, to your point, I don&#39;t think Buffy is in love yet, either. I really can&#39;t figure out what it will take to push her over that edge, because I do think she&#39;s pretty damn close. An angel cross-over could&#39;ve been pretty sweet right about now.

  • Dec. 3, 2001, 8:35 p.m. CST

    Girl219 and crossovers

    by Naia

    Yeah. I wish for an Angel crossover, though I understand he has a kid on his show now, so there&#39;d be way too much stuff to deal with there. I wonder if Buffy will find out? Did you read Thenser&#39;s spoilers above? Cuz if they&#39;re right . . . maybe Buffy will go over the edge sometime then. It does say "constant relapses" though it also says she kicks him out of town. Thenser if you&#39;re reading this please please post more details.

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  • Dec. 10, 2001, 8:46 p.m. CST

    Willows Addiction

    by Fozzy_Bear

    not sure if anyones previosly said this as i have not read all the posts but everyone i read automally assumes that the thing with willow is an addiction to magic. yeah sure she is getting a bit excessive in it&#39;s use. but i think the the addiction is to the rack guys powers. cos spike said that only supernaturally inclined can find him. and how many vampires and run of the mill kill you as soon as look at you demons have shown much intrest in magic use previously. Personally my theroy is that rack will be back cos he seemed to get much pleasure out of willow maby he got addicted to her.

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