HERC Has Seen The Last ANGEL of Sweeps!!
Angel 3.9 FAQ
What’s it called?
Written and directed by Tim Minear, who also wrote and directed last season’s best episode, “Through the Looking Glass.”
What does TV Guide say?
“Vampire hunter Holtz's rekindled crusade to wreak fiery vengeance upon Angel and Darla complicates the impending birth of the expecting couple's baby. With Darla's contractions getting closer together, even the Angel Investigations gang is surprised when she takes off without them for places unknown. Angel finds her, only to learn how truly conflicted Darla is with the fact that she, a demon, actually loves something: her child. Her heartbreaking fear is that once the foreign soul leaves her womb, she won't be able to love it anymore. As the crew seeks sanctuary at Caritas, Lilah discovers an ominous prophecy concerning the baby.”
Did Holtz use the minions to kill the Wolfram & Hart contingent last week?
The big news?
This is another of those big “Angel” episodes that ends in a way that will make your mouth hang wide open.
The bad news?
This is the last “Angel” of sweeps. You’ll have to wait about another month to find out what happens next.
What is TV Guide not telling us?
Krevlornswath is proven one unlucky demon this week.
Does Darla give birth this episode?
She does not.
Why does the crew seek sanctuary at Caritas?
The host reprogrammed the anti-violence spell to stop human and demon violence this time.
Where does Darla go?
She temporarily takes refuge on the roof of the Hollywood Roosevelt hotel.
The real reason everyone’s in the front seat of Angel’s car. Lilah’s lawyerly evil. Angel’s very vampiric escape from Holtz. The time demon’s dialogues with Holtz. How cool the roof of the Roosevelt looks. The flashback with Holtz’s young daughter. The way the crew tests Caritas’ anti-violence spell. That shocker ending!
What’s not so good?
It isn’t as good as “Through the Looking Glass.” Darla was such a deadly monster when she was rampaging last season, it’s odd the crew doesn’t fear her more. Dru doesn’t turn up this week.
How does it end, spoiler-boy?
Holtz alters the plan.
Herc’s rating for “Angel” 3.9?
The Hercules T. Strong Rating System:
To order boxer shorts adorned with the image of a green, handicapable “Buffy” fanatic, click here.
Readers Talkbackcomments powered by Disqus
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Nov. 19, 2001, 5:44 a.m. CST
...of course not. He might kill the host though. I hope not. Ya gotta love that guy, seriously! Anyway, got my fingers crossed for this one. Looks good.
Nov. 19, 2001, 6:07 a.m. CST
by Prof. Pop-Cult
I saw that episode recently myself and it really does come across as prescient. Notice how Willow's make-up and style of dress this season seem to be evolving toward a style like VampWillow's. However, it's possible (and likely) that Whedon did not have all the details for Season 6 preplanned. My guess is that he simply decided to go with the idea of Willow being gay, going dark with her magic, etc. as the seasons progressed, and used the VampWillow episode as the basis for these ideas. Basically, these things felt "right" to do. If details like these were preplanned from the start, they might come across as forced. I think Whedon has a general idea for how a season is going to play out, but he keeps the options open when it comes to specific issues with the characters. (Here's another example: A couple of seasons ago, it was rumored that a new recurring vampire character would be introduced who would become infatuated with Buffy and stalk her. This never happened, of course, but instead the idea appears to have been transferred over to Spike.) As for Amber Benson appearing in the VampWillow episode, perhaps that wasn't planned either. Maybe she was simply cast as an extra, and Whedon liked her and decided to devise a speaking role for her to play somewhere down the line. So we can still say that Benson's appearance in that episode is actually Tara's first appearance, even if this may not have been the original intent. The VampWillow episode is also quite interesting in how it depicts Anya. Those who scoff at the theory/idea of the Legion of Nerds becoming good by season's end and working with the Scoobs need to remember that Anya was clearly an enemy of the Scoobs originally.
Nov. 19, 2001, 9:09 a.m. CST
I have been wondering about the scene with Holtz's family and the hint Herc gave about his daugter confirmed my thoughts. Perhaps we will see more of her or the baby in the next episodes.
Nov. 19, 2001, 9:28 a.m. CST
I bet Holtz is going to kill all of Angels "family". The AI gang and (I hope) Darla and leave Angel all alone again.
Nov. 19, 2001, 9:43 a.m. CST
hmm...I'm so going to have to check my tape on Doppelgangland now. (though why would Tara be in Sunnydale before she enters college? Scouting?) Um, Herc, is your star-o-meter stuck at 3.5 stars? If it's such a decent ep why not 4?
Nov. 19, 2001, 9:44 a.m. CST
Tara (and thus Willow's lesbianism) came about because Seth Green left the show pretty much with no warning. Joss had a whole arc planned for Willow/Oz for the fourth season, but just before the season was to go into production, SG asked to be let out of BUFFY after a few episodes due to his movie career taking off. Joss & Co. let him go, and the whole Tara relationship came about last minute. But even from her first appearance (HUSH), she was meant to be Willow's future girlfriend.
Nov. 19, 2001, 11:34 a.m. CST
... while a solid installment, it is not better than most motion pictures. hope this clears things up.
Nov. 19, 2001, 12:03 p.m. CST
by The Mighty Celt
What's all this "coming to an end" business? And the Sweeps? British TV doesn't run that way... an episode or two may be delayed for some rivetting sports event (such as snooker or Wimbledon.... Okay, rivetting maybe not, even if I have spelled it incorrectly). But never for WEEKS! Is this because of Christmas? I would just like to know.
Nov. 19, 2001, 12:17 p.m. CST
by vroom socko
Remembeer, Angelus and Darla killed Holtz's children. Odds are, he's going to go after the baby first, make Angel suffer the way he has.
Nov. 19, 2001, 1:24 p.m. CST
Goddamn thunderstorms and tornados that hit us here in Austin last week knocked a window out in my living room. Thusly my VCR got soaked and has bit the dust. I really like Tim Minear's work, this sucks that I have to miss it. Why can't I date a normal woman that owns a VCR?
Nov. 19, 2001, 1:34 p.m. CST
the heck with 3.5 stars, this sounds like a killer episode and sad: http://angelsacolyte.tripod.com/preview.html
Nov. 19, 2001, 2:03 p.m. CST
DyslexicHeart (sorry if I mispelled your name.), I know exactly what you mean. Oh yeah, I hate that I don't get the WB because Angel rules next to Buffy.
Nov. 19, 2001, 2:30 p.m. CST
hell yeah, i agree, it's those sort of episodes that make angel the most superb show on tv, buffy used to hav that definative edge but now......... i much prefer the more adult style show angel has to it. This seasons gonna pick up again now much like last season took a while to get to its best. although, consequently the show has lost big element/ player as a result of that episode. luvin the baby angle and development. ot
Nov. 19, 2001, 2:59 p.m. CST
"Angel" has never fufilled its original promise. Lately it is a bargain basement "Buffy".In the last few episodes I find myself bored and annoyed. God I miss Doyle. "Angel" isn't funny. It tries to be but it's jokes flat flatter than Natalie Portman's chest.I'd like to see it return to a darker noir tone. Angel doesnt need to be a stand up comedian. I like my Angel dark and tormented...complex. If you need comic relief Cordy is always ready with her special brand of quippage. I think there is so much potential here and the writers though well intentioned are a bit misguided. This season is realy a mess. Fred is boring. Gunn is boring. Wolfram and Heart is boring. Holtz is REALLY boring. The good things are Angel and Cordy's mutual crush and Darla's reappearnce. I know She isnt the most popular charachther but I have always liked her. I think a Darla-Angel-Cordy triangle sounds great. Hey, Better yet bring back Faith. Eliza Dushku must return! I don't care what Joss and co. have to do to make it happen but Christ, DO IT! Faith and Angel have hot chemistry!!!! There is also so much history.I would love to see Gunn and Fred killed in some kind of horrible way. The group + Faith could unify for some nasty whoop ass revenge. Get rid of Holtz! Return to the original vision!
Nov. 19, 2001, 3:20 p.m. CST
Just read the spoilers from angelsacolye (address above) It sounds fucking amazing. Maybe there is hope afterall.
Nov. 19, 2001, 4:27 p.m. CST
Is Harry up there in the corner doing a search on smurf porn?!?
Nov. 19, 2001, 7:26 p.m. CST
No mention of what happens to her from Herc is not a good thing. And let's face it, Darla's return has been building up to this. I knew they wouldn't kill her off until they gave her resurrection some relevance in the big picture. Well Angel having a child by her fits that bill a little too perfectly. If they're looking for a way to remove her from the story, they're free to do so when the baby is born. The Buffy writers were smart and kept Spike around, I wonder if the Angel writers are as wise.
Nov. 19, 2001, 8:46 p.m. CST
For the Buffy watchers. Tuesday's episode has Buffy and Spike bringing the house down as the climax of the episode. With the slayer, surviving the foreplay is everything.
Nov. 19, 2001, 9:25 p.m. CST
After reading the wildfeed for tomorrow I was a little shocked at the last scene with B/S. Should be very interesting L
Nov. 19, 2001, 9:58 p.m. CST
What a finale. That's all I'll say.
Nov. 19, 2001, 10:01 p.m. CST
All I can say is HOLY S$%&. Damn that was a good ep. How long though till a new ep. I dont think I can wait that long.
Nov. 19, 2001, 10:12 p.m. CST
Dammit to fricking Hell in a fricking handbasket! We never got a resolution to Darla and Dru, or Darla and Lindsey(and she never had a present-day scene with Spike!) Damn them! I'll give it this, Darla knows how to make an entrance and an exit. Her first and last appearances on both Angel and Buffy were among the most memorable. But DAMMIT, THE IDIOTS KILLED HER! The writers are official dickheads. Yeah sure, she went out well, but I reject her death! It sucks that she had to die! It was wrong! That said, this was an otherwise exciting episode. Now I assume Holtz is going to let Angel think he can be father only to destroy the child somehow. But how can the show work with a baby in the midst of everything? Is this going to be Willow(the 1988 movie, not Alyson Hannigan) for the next few seasons with the gang trying to keep the baby out of the hands of Wolfram and Hart(and safe from Holtz)? Will this be a wierd super-growth kind of TV kid to be played by three or four different actors(Ahah Jason Behr's next gig when Roswell is finally cancelled)? I hate to say it, but as hackneyed as that would be, it's one of the few ways the baby can turn into its own character. Maybe they'll surprise me, but damn them for Darla! They won't be forgiven for this anytime soon! And you know she won't be back either, she's died twice already! Total morons!
Nov. 19, 2001, 10:14 p.m. CST
All that central Texas flooding cancelled my dress rehearsal tonight, so I got to see this awesome episode. Julie Benz was terrific. Last season, I could never really get into her return as a human or vampire, but the last few weeks she has been great. I personally think the comedy is more steady on "Angel" this year than on "Buffy" which has teetered on melodramatic. Tim Minear and David Greenwalt do a great job of mixing the dark with the comedic and I think the tone is constant. I still love "Buffy" but it's kind of dragging and instead of wishing Angel or Cordy would go back to Sunnydale I now wish Buffy would pack up her things and Dawn and move to L.A.
Nov. 19, 2001, 10:14 p.m. CST
by Darth Tater
I've never given an Angel episode five stars in my personal ratings, but this episode was one of the best ever. The ending was bloody brilliant. Herc, a suggestion: get someone who actually WANTS to watch this show to review it
Nov. 19, 2001, 10:16 p.m. CST
But that was a damn fine episode!
Nov. 19, 2001, 10:16 p.m. CST
Lord, I will wait till tomorrow when I'm sure that the westcoasters have seen it but this was the best Angel all season. This ending was on par with the Drusilla coming to sire Darla epi. Nina
Nov. 19, 2001, 10:20 p.m. CST
and the clock is ticking OH SO SLOWLEEEEEEEEEEEE. Dare I say it again? That Angel so far this season seems a tad more interesting than Buffy? oops, I really said it..........
Nov. 19, 2001, 10:22 p.m. CST
Julie Benz can star in flashbacks forever. And frankly, I like her better that way. If only the same thing would happen to Dru - but there's no way to get Angel to boink Dru, is there?
Nov. 19, 2001, 10:34 p.m. CST
by Toby O Notoby
Twice a year, shows go up for ratings. Basically, they try to find out how many people (and of what demographic) are watching what. These numbers are then used to determine how much the networks can charge for advertising time. Bigger ratings = more money so as you can imagine, shows tend to pull out all the stops to try and lure viewers. You
Nov. 19, 2001, 10:39 p.m. CST
In the US, we have this dumb thing called "Sweeps". Basically, every show hits a huge climax and often uses twice the normal budget so they can get high ratings over a four week period, because the ratings for a network in that four week period will determine their ad revenue for the next several months to a year. It sounds dumb because it is. Anyway, after Sweeps, most shows go on a several week hiatus rather quickly. Buffy and Enterprise will stop soon and won't have new shows until late January, and Angel... I have no idea when Angel will be back. And yes, it's REALLY, REALLY DUMB.
Nov. 19, 2001, 10:45 p.m. CST
I'm sorry, but that star-o-meter is so stuck at 3.5. Give it a good kick will ya? The storyline alone is 4 stars and the jaw-dropping ending adds another half star. This is powerful stuff, ranking in my mind on the impact level of Becoming. ... "Is it working?" *slap* "Nope." ... I sincerely thought things were going to go a much different way than they did. From seeming clues in the flashbacks and dialogues, I thought the child was going to be born a vampire and that Darla would have fed off of it so much that she would have retained its soul. Surely a stunning way to change my mind. ... You know? Angel only seems to love/be intimate with girls who have died twice. ...If everyone's talking about Doppelgangland foreshadowing, what about the entire B3 season doing some, like with The Prom? The couples there could possibly be the ones that end up in the end: B/A, X/A, W/O, Wes/Cordy. Also watch out for Jonathon and some tall chick. ... "What are we looking at?" (paraphrasing)..a very Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade moment. ... It's about time this show had a damn mythos episode on the level of Buffy (the only thing that comes close would be the last scene of A1, where we see Darla again). ... And finally, I LOVED that whole messianic foreshadowing rant Fred went off on. Nice way to chuck the obvious cliche out the window. ... *happy dance for SPLENDID ep* *poof*
Nov. 19, 2001, 11:01 p.m. CST
My brain never fully unloads. What is it about Angel's line? How the hell is Dru going to factor into this now? Spike's obviously integral, not to mention Angel or Darla or the Master (the reason Buffy died in the first place). But what about Dru? The infant is almost like her equivalent, the product of Darla and Angel. Something tells me she'll be more needed on Angel than Buffy and I wonder what her reaction will be at knowing her "child" staked herself in order to give birth to, in some sense, a replacement. It seems like Dru will be dead in the end, but when and under what circumstances? FUTUREGUY, where are you? *poof*
Nov. 19, 2001, 11:09 p.m. CST
Darla is dead. Wow. The ending was a powerful moment and Holtz finally is making a statement. Was it story or Julie Benz that killed Darla? I'm hoping it doesn't become a Holtz hunts Angel to punish him in tortuerous ways other than killing him where the Gang has to protect the child and gets into some hijinks. Somehow I think Holtz will kidnap the child, begin to raise it himself, the Time Demon will age it, and Angel will have to face his own child as his enemy. There were so many places the story could have gone from that last point but the line where Holtz says he'll keep his promise killed off some of my hopes. I was hoping for a more complex character than "I'll torture him this way, then that, then I'll feed him fruit loops and monologues before I die in a torture plotting of the week episode." I was hoping for him to kill the Time Demon so as to loose his leash and develop on his own rather than being rote to the point of his entire character being just "I'll hurt Angel and try poorly to kill him." I just hope Angel finds some consistancy in tone. Less Angel funny funny no ha, more dark, deep, and dark humor facinating and enthralling. It is times like this I wish I could just write some good so as to pull off something I have in my mind where it could go. I'm looking forward to more of such.
Nov. 19, 2001, 11:23 p.m. CST
After Angel escapes from Holtz in the hotel, Lilah surveys the massacre scene and makes a call on her cell phone: "Harvey, I got a job for you... Angel Investigations.. yeah, full cleaner service." It's a damn funny reference to Harvey Keitel playing all those post-assassination cleanup guy roles, i.e. "the wolf" in Pulp Fiction and Victor the Cleaner in Point of No Return..
Nov. 20, 2001, 12:03 a.m. CST
but I didn't think they had the guts to do it. DAMN! DAMN! DAAAAAMMMMNNNN!!! And yes my jaw dropped. Let's break it down. 1)Overall a nice allegory on abortion and parental issues. 2) Is the Host getting new digs? Twice in 2 months-bad mojo at work there. 3) Holtz leaving the club--CREEPY! 4) Holtz with his daughter-heartbreaking. 5) Fred's rant-clever way of handling exposition. 6) Lilah in full evil mode-thank you Tim for some very good lawyer jokes this week, I've missed them this season. 7) Testing the new security system-funny. 8) The security system installer-very funny, and continued the theme of family resposibility ("I have a mouth to feed...and a family and some of them have mouths"). 9) the endind-WOW! 4 stars easily. Long live Team Whedon!-----later-----m
Nov. 20, 2001, 12:15 a.m. CST
They be: Angel, Cordy, and Wes. I have to say that they're the only characters I really enjoy. The host and Gunn were better as occasonal supportin characters. They don't get enough screen time to really be valuable and they end up being a distraction. Angel has been slow this season but these last two episodes were worth the wait I think. They just should have been sooner in the season. I'd like to see OZ on Angel. I think he'd fit in better here.
Nov. 20, 2001, 12:19 a.m. CST
Doyle was a cool character and when the show was just him cordy and angel it was pretty dmn good. But why did doyle leave the show? Did he not wanna be on it anymore or did they intend to have him killed off from te get go? Some one please get back to me I'd really like to know if theres a web site out ther with behind the scenes info about stuff lik this.
Nov. 20, 2001, 12:24 a.m. CST
You're killin' me Herc! Please don't tell me you've lost hope. By the way, are you gonna ignore The Brilliant Bernie Mac Show. I know that you're from Texas but give me a break. It's the year 2001. The blacks aren't gonna hurt you.
Nov. 20, 2001, 12:35 a.m. CST
he's off the show because of "personal reasons" a.k.a he was on a lot of drugs and it was getting in the way with his work. My opinion of the early eps of angel goes like this...i liked them a lot, but they were becomming the Cordelia and Doyle show, not Angel. If Doyle would have stayed, the B plots would have been coming dangerously close to being more interesting than the A plots. Plus, if Doyle would have stayed, there would be no Wes, and we couldn't have that now could we?
Nov. 20, 2001, 1:07 a.m. CST
by The Paladin
This was wihtout a doubt the best Angel episode ever, and definitely deserves *****. I actually like Holtz. He is a truly sympathetic bad guy. I really do wonder if what he said to the time demon was just to shut him up. Makes you wonder what he will do next, could he actually change sides and ally himself with Angel, probably not, but it is an interesting idea. I wonder if he really understands that Darla was pregnant and that the time demon was witholding the info from him. It could make a very interesting situation. Anyway, Holtz is a far more interesting big bad than those three geeky idiots that Buffy has for season 6. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that Joss is away in England? If he were on the set, he would have come up with a cooler big bad. Anyway, Tim Meaners (sp?) did a truly amazing job, and has written the best episode of Angel ever.
Nov. 20, 2001, 1:12 a.m. CST
I would have said the best episode of 'Angel' ever, but that honor belongs to the Buffy/Angel reunion episode from the first season (which almost tore my heart out, but in an enjoyable way hehe). I've always hated the Darla character, but the reasons were because she's an evil bitch, so maybe it was more effective than I thought. Seeing her redemption tonight made me hope that she would stick around though, but watching her dust herself was heartbreaking. The ending was killer and I definitely can't wait until the new episodes air again. Everything has changed though--the gang most definitely can't go back to the hotel, Caritas is destroyed again, and they've got to protect the baby. It will be interesting to see where the writers take this, and believe me, I'll be there all the way. AND MAKE LORNE A REGULAR!!!! Just my thoughts.
Nov. 20, 2001, 1:14 a.m. CST
Another quality ep from the cast and briliant minds of Angel. Oh m'god - while I did shed tears at last seasons end of Buffy -this ep of Angel brought upon a whammie of a emotional response. I mean, who would have EVER thought that you could NOT want Darla to go. That you WANTED her and Angel to bring up their child. Oh m'god. The scene of Holtz and his daughter was also strong. And poor old Lorn and will his club ever get it's grand reopening? As for the hotel, is it history, also? And what of the translation of the scroll from Lilah's office? "....there is no birth, only death..." and did that mean just the death of Darla? Too many good lines to recite here and I never did like to recite lines , this episode had too much going for it, it had a good script, but it had a great emotional impact that really did overwhelm me, and I'm one hard chick to overwhelm or just whelm, period. I have to agree with other fellow AICN'ers - the ending was....wow.....what a ending. And this wasn't no season ening episode. It's only a beginning. Oh gods, my head is a swimmng with future possibilities and I've got to wait until the next brand new episode? Wha' the f..........?
Nov. 20, 2001, 1:18 a.m. CST
by It's A Duck
Once Caritas got torched, I knew Darla was going to die so the baby would live without being "born." However, I didn't know it was going to be a suicide. Darla's death kinda keeps us on our toes too. I mean, there's no guarantee that Fred or Lorne or Gunn or Dru, etc. won't get killed in a future episode too.
Nov. 20, 2001, 1:57 a.m. CST
SHEESH, fabulous episode -- what a way for Darla to go! My only quibble is the inconsistency of the Angel universe when it comes to vamps, love, etc. It's been aready clearly established that Darla loved Angelus -- and that she was devastated at his revelation that he never loved her. Even her first death, long ago on Buffy, was played with surprising compassion (Darla looking betrayed and puzzled when Angel stakes her). And as Drusilla once said (even before the Spike-Buffy thing), "Oh we love. Not wisely but we love." Other than that, great ep. I still find Fred to be completely unnatural, like a sitcom walk-on completely out of place. She's so frantically "cute-sweet" I want to scream -- and with none of the simple realism that Amber Benson brings to the shyness of Tara, for instance. I truthfully think Fred adds nothing to the show -- and by contrast really miss Kate's realism and complexity.
Nov. 20, 2001, 2:02 a.m. CST
This had to be the best episode of the season (so far). That scene with Holtz's daughter was very unsettling and Darla's death was also a big shocker, so well done that I'm still reeling from the impact it had on me. Very powerful stuff. Oh, and Julie Benz was so remarkable that I'm actually going to miss Darla....
Nov. 20, 2001, 3:50 a.m. CST
1st, the AMAZING conclusions all the characters jump to. "if we don't get the baby out of her it'll die despite having lived their, protected, for months" yeah, and the explosion in the bar, HELLO, why not just have the Host *NOT* Fix the spell, so the explosion actually seems possible. and finally, the horrible predicitability of darla killing herself. oh yeah, and the fact that *EVERYONE* seems to forget how easy it is to give a vampire his/her soul back (even an amatuer witch can do it). why is darla so damn worried about being soulless after the birth?
Nov. 20, 2001, 4:23 a.m. CST
by Prof. Pop-Cult
That cute gal who ran the teen shelter. She was rather hot. Plus, she has a connection to the street so she could probably play off of Gunn, and Lord knows Gunn has become so damned bland from hanging with the whiteys so much. :) Seriously, though, Gunn's edge is gone, and thus I'm failing to see what's the point of having him among the cast, other than for providing muscle to clobber demons. Getting that blonde chick who runs the teen shelter back for more appearances might help Gunn get back in touch with his street-wise attitude. As for Fred, like Gunn, I'm failing to see what's the point of her character being part of the main cast. Why is she there? When the season began I naturally assumed we'd quickly understand the reason for her addition to the cast, but it hasn't happened yet. I like both Gunn and Fred, but in terms of the overall narrative of most of the episodes we've seen, there seems to be very little need for them to be part of Angel Investigations.
Nov. 20, 2001, 6:50 a.m. CST
First of all, they explained that the spell still worked but it was possible for people to lob things inside, like malatov cocktails, barrels o' gasoline on fire, grenades, etc. Considering EVERYONE, including vampires, can burn it made sense for them to get the hell out of dodge opening it up for the possibility that Holtz would be able to harm Angel/Darla/the baby. Holtz's exit and the Host's reading of that was excellent.******And how lame would it be if in the Buffyverse they went around handing out souls like flyers?
Nov. 20, 2001, 9:04 a.m. CST
by Tar Heel
I actually like the fact that Darla bit the dust. It definitely brings a sense of closure to the character, unlike still having Oz, Dru and Faith still out there. And don't necessarily blame the writers for getting rid of her. I think I read that Julie Benz is going to be a regular on some new series. Perhaps it was a mutual parting. Anyway, damn good episode.
Nov. 20, 2001, 10:40 a.m. CST
by Shanks 'R' Us
Figured I'd damn the upcoming onslaught of repeats and get it out the way. Anyway, I liked this ep a lot; it's a nice change of pace as the gang can't go back to the hotel, Caritas is wrecked yet again, and all that good stuff. As for the end of Darla... damn. Julie Benz was fun to watch, and she'll be missed. This season is progressing nicely, although I still have some slight issues with how Gunn's being handled; it seems like there's still tension in the group from "That Old Gang of Mine" or whatever it was called, but all Gunn's there for is a good line every now and then or a slight gag such as this ep's 'smack Gunn's head' shenanigans. Humorous, yes... but at least give the guy his damn edge back. Show him making weapons or something (remember that homemade axe?)... give him something to do, just don't kill him off. And yes, Fred seems out of place, but that's what makes her so damn fun. Now, if Holtz would kill the Time Demon, and really start wrecking havoc, things would be great...
Nov. 20, 2001, 11:01 a.m. CST
Question for you all: Wasn't the girl who ran that teen ceneter the same girl that Buffy helped when she was in LA a few seasons back? I was pretty sure it was supposed to be but don't remember if it was confirmed at all. Regarding this episode: I liked it but I hope they find some creative way to get the baby up and out of the story. Angel as a brooding hero: good. Angel as an inept daddy getting peed and spit up on: bad. Well maybe for one epsiode but not for the series.
Nov. 20, 2001, 11:31 a.m. CST
Yes, the teen center broad (who is called Anne, by the way) is the very character that Buffy helped out in the season 3 opener. Buffy helped her get standing on her own two feet, and that's when she started calling herself Anne. Before that, she was calling herself Lilly. She appeared previously in the season 2 episode "Lie to Me." Back then she was calling herself Chanterelle, and she was one of the vampire wanna-be kids. Continuity like this is why I love the show. A character who appeared twice over two seasons on Buffy can show up two years later on the spin-off in a way that is totally organic. I would love to see the crossover ep where Angel and Buffy run into Anne at the same time. Angel: "Anne..." (Anne turns, see Angel standing there) Anne: "Angel." Buffy: "Lilly?" Anne: "Buffy!" All together: "You know each other?" Okay, I'm no Joss Whedon, but I think it would be funny.
Nov. 20, 2001, 11:55 a.m. CST
What Darla did caught me totally by surprise. Didn't know she had it in her. That was a gutsy move by the writers, and a damn creative way to have a baby. The vampire hunter was kinda cheesy though, couldn't they get somebody scarier? BTW I love the Host, he's great. I wasn't watching Angel much until this season (got roped in by the LoTR premiere), now I'm glad I'm watching it.
Nov. 20, 2001, 12:10 p.m. CST
very nice episode, but I wish they'd bring back last weeks writer to write the villans. You can totally tell that he was the one that wrote Skip (where the hell is skip??????), and the time deamon guy was very lame this week, the difference is ovbious.
Nov. 20, 2001, 12:11 p.m. CST
and I'm already missing Darla. Damn, that episode was a great one.
Nov. 20, 2001, 12:24 p.m. CST
Um, sorry Mighty Hercules but have you been to most of the movies that are out these days...? They mostly all suck! And you're gonna tell me that the dialogue, acting, comedy and drama on last night's Angel wasn't better than most motion pictures? Boy are you wrong...! It takes a lot to get me to visibly "gasp" at the end of anything but Angel did it! 4 and a half stars at THE LEAST!!!! Get up off your Buffy high horse fool! Angel is SO much the better show right now!
Nov. 20, 2001, 1:02 p.m. CST
how is Buffy going to handdie this news
Nov. 20, 2001, 3:25 p.m. CST
by Lt. Torello
Hell, he's in almost every episode anyway and I always find him a kick. Darla's exit was a fitting surprise. Remember Julie Benz was a finalist to play Buffy when SMG was slated to play Cordelia -- imagine THAT show. Last week I posted this is where "Angel" Season 3 should have began and I stand by that -- this is a fine jump-start, but the first half-dozen or so eps were nothing special, despite Herc's three-and-a-half star rubber stamp. Now I'm glued to this show again. I agree Anne would have been a more logical addition over loony Fred, but Kate alas cannot return as Elisabeth Rohm is a full-time regular on "Law and Order." And of course we all want Faith to return, but like Seth Green, Eliza Dushku imagines herself a movie star.
Nov. 20, 2001, 5:04 p.m. CST
Can anybody out there PLEASE help me??? We have just moved and the cable up here doesn't even get WB, so I am totally out of Angel. I need help - having extreme withdrawal. Can somebody please give me a summary of the season!!!!!
Nov. 20, 2001, 5:09 p.m. CST
I'm a long-time lurker who's been moved to post because I can't take another "Whatever Happened to that Lovely Boy Doyle" question. Since I started reading 6 months ago, I've seen it asked and, very politely, answered at least 10 times. Herc and the AICN PTB, have you ever considered establishing an FAQ for each Coax show? On another, less cranky topic: I appreciate the deep fandom I find here every week. My family and coworkers just don't understand.
Nov. 20, 2001, 5:23 p.m. CST
Because, in reality, that child probbably wouldv'e died of SIDS within 5 min of being born, or whatever you call that. It was floating in a womb maybe 6in off the ground, then BAM! Smacks down onto wet, dirty concrete in the rain. Then they stare at him for a while. HELLO, it's raining, it's probably cold, and this kid was naked. After getting over the shock of Darla, I was yelling "COVER HIM UP, HE'S GONNA CATCH A COLD!" Anyway, AWESOME ep. So awesome, in fact that I think I may be clinically depressed now at the fact that there won't be a new ep for at least a month.
Nov. 20, 2001, 6:27 p.m. CST
by Ensign Throwaway
Remember the scene after Darla kills herself--the wide shot of Angel, Fred, and the baby? Notice how eveyone is positioned? It's a manger scene! Angel is kneeling in front of the baby, like Joseph. Fred, with Angel's coat over her head, looks like Mary. And the dirty alley is a sub for a dirty manger.
Nov. 20, 2001, 6:36 p.m. CST
With Hero and The Ring close seconds. Rounding out my top five would be season two's Reprise and the Trial. Of course, there are a bunch of standout eps from the first season. I think last night's ep ranks up there with them. For all you numbnuts who don't what's going on cuz you jumped on the fan bus a little late, you can stop wasting bandwidth by doing a little surfing. There are tons of episode summaries and transcripts on the web to answer your basic questions. My favorite is buffyworld.com... of course, if you guys were going to take this advice you would have thought of this already...>sigh< AD out. PS- saw Darla's death coming a mile away, I just thought she was going to ask Angel to do it for her...
Nov. 20, 2001, 7:29 p.m. CST
On this episode it was awesome! My girlfriend who bashes on the show constantly even begrudgingly said that was a decent one and that's a lot from her. ANHYWHOO! It just occurred to me and if anyone could make this happen it would just be fricking spectacular....OZ AND FAITH!!! Who better to teach Faith self control than the new and improved Jedi Master-like OZ. Who could better keep Oz in control when he loses it than a tough(perfect) assed Slayer. does he have to worry about losing it at the "height of passion" with Faith HELL NO! She can take care of herself and beat his ass when needed. SHIT that would be perfect. Le sigh... if only it would happen and where else should Oz be for his budding music career than LA. FAITH AND OZ FAITH AND OZ FAITH AND OZ come on everyone join in the chant! FAITH AND OZ FAITH AND OZ!!!!!!
Nov. 20, 2001, 7:39 p.m. CST
by Prof. Pop-Cult
Reopening Caritas in Angel's hotel would make sense. Angel could be easily convinced to lend the space since, after all, all his team's shit kept affecting Lorne's business. Besides, how the fuck is Angel paying for such a massive piece of real estate -- in L.A. of all places?? It would be cool if they finally went into real quickly how it is that Angel got the hotel, then have Cordelia explain to Angel that he needs to bring in some revenue to keep the place, thus, putting Caritas inside it.
Nov. 20, 2001, 11:28 p.m. CST
by Led Gopher
I didn't feel like reading thru all the other posts, damn there's a lot of you! But this episode's ending blew my socks off. Can you say "Holy Shit!"? I am sad to see Darla go, but at least Holtz will be aroung for awhile yet. I really do feel a lot of sympathy for the guy. I know I'd have a hard time wanting anything other than revenge if I had to do to my own daughter (that is if I were a parent) what he had to. So we now have a long wait till more new episodes, huh? Shit.
Nov. 21, 2001, 2:04 a.m. CST
by Jimmy Jazz
but it lacked the jaw dropping perffection of this week's Buffy. I still say Buffy is kicking Angel's ass this season. This Holtz guy is less boring this episode than in the previous ones. Kind of a complex guy, actually. This is promising Always good to see Wolfram and Hart skullduggery. But this Gavin guy is no su I'm sorry to see Darla go, I always liked her and the character is so tied up with the history of the Whedonverse ( you have to remember she appeared before Buffy even did in the pilot episode). Still her storyline was played out. I really did not want her playing the good little mother. At least this gives an opening for m'lady Drusilla to come back. I love her. As for other returning characters, I think Anne is overdue for an appearence. Kate and Lyndsey would be nice to see as well. But my real wish is for Faith to come back. On either show. It pisses me off that this great character is consigned to limbo due to the hubristic, David Carusoesque ambitions of a delusional actress. Her last movie was barely even released. Give me a break. Well, enough griping. I await with great curiosity the outcome of this baby situation. Let's hope it's not a Xena X-Files thing.
Nov. 21, 2001, 3:23 a.m. CST
It's being pre-empted for "The Mandy Moore And AOL TIME WARNER Tell You What's Cool Special". As for sites with character histories and such, "The Buffy Cross and Stakes" is good, especially for Buffy seasons 1-4, but go easy: that site is experiencing bandwith problems. There are several others, just do a web-search for "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Oh yes, rating for monday was steady: 4.6.-----later-----m
Nov. 21, 2001, 12:25 p.m. CST
by spike fan
I do think that was the best episode of the season so far. And out of all the writers on both shows I do think Minear is the best. Note to Greenwalt stick to what you are good at which is producing and Directing leave the scripts to Minear. That being said this season has been the weakest so far and only now has it really got going.Though why both Fred and Gunn are still around is beyond me since they are hardly integral to the show. As for Faith I would rather have her back on BtvS mainly cause I think there is better story line potential there. Besides she is the Slayer so she should be on the Slayer show. Having her play second fiddle to Angel a Vampire would not be on. But otherwise she would just outshine wooden DB and have fans screaming for him to be killed off and replaced with her. At least with Geller she can play off an equal. Besides anyone not curious to see a scene between ED and James Masters? As for Dushku personaly I have to agree with other talkbackers here. She is a terrific actress but she is still assentialy playing the same bad girl role in all the movies she has done. Some of which are not that great. At least Geller Petualnt and diver that she is is realistic enough to know that with Buffy her career would be like her boyfriends which is nothing. Which is crying shame cause I am sure that if she expressed and interest Whedon would be sensible enough to give her own show or have her take over when the Buffy run ends. All respect to MT who is being set up to take over but a Dawn show would essentialy be the Buffy show with different names ala High school with friends.
Nov. 21, 2001, 11:44 p.m. CST
by ANGEL 97
THE LAST EPISODE OF ANGEL DARLA KILLED HERSELF AND SINCE THE BABY IS HUMAN IT SURVIVED BUT NOW THERE IS A VAMPIRE KILLER FROM HIS PAST THAT WANTS TO KILL ANGEL FOR WHAT HE AND DARLA DID TO HIS FAMILY. SO NOW MY QUSESTION IS WHAT WILL HE NAME HIS SON?
Nov. 22, 2001, 11:35 a.m. CST
by Joss is Jesus
check out this old pic of D.Boreanaz I just found. Its a capture from 'married with children' http://www.tattat.force9.co.uk/gcdabo09.htm
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