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HERC Reviews Tonight's ANGEL!!

Angel 3.1 FAQ

What’s it called?


The big news?

3.1 is one of those “Angel” episodes with a big shocker ending.

Does the shocker ending involve Buffy or the other scoobs?

It does not.

What did Herc say about “Angel” 3.1 way back on July 15 again?

  • Darla’s back. At least in flashbacks.
  • At least one flashback finds Angel and Darla in 1767 Marseilles, fleeing from Holtz. (As Moriarty and Bosshog mentioned in this space earlier, Holtz’s family was killed by Angelus, and the wronged man will this season find his way into the 21st century in his quest for vengeance.)
  • At the time of the Marseilles flashback, Holtz is already being described as “the most formidable vampire killer in the world.”
  • The 18th century Darla and Angel will cavort with a heretofore unseen vampire couple, a kind of proto-Spike-and-Dru named James and Elisabeth. (Not, vexingly, James and Juliet.)
  • Holtz was the unseen fellow chasing Angel and Darla in a flashback in last season’s “Dear Boy.” Elisabeth brings up the incident from the “Dear Boy” flashback, asking Angel if it was true Darla fled a barn in which Angel and Darla were trapped, leaving Angel to die. Angel confirms the incident with fondness: “She hit me with a shovel, wished me luck and rode off with our only horse.”
  • Elisabeth dies by Angel’s hand.
  • Holtz isn't the only one to turn up in the present. James gets to spend time with Angel and Cordy on the L.A. subway!
  • In the present, James tells Angel he wishes he could kill Angel’s true love, as Angel killed James’. Angel replies, “You can’t kill the woman I love because she’s already dead.” Cordy adds, “It happened three months ago, we try not to talk about it.”
  • Don’t expect James to survive the season premiere.

    Did Herc’s sources get it right?

    They did!

    What does TV Guide say?

    After a turbulent summer spent coping with the news of Buffy's death, Angel (David Boreanaz) returns to L.A. in the third-season opener only to run into a couple of nasty blasts from his tarnished past. While out on a routine vamp hunt, Angel happens to dust a bloodsucker (Kate Norby) from his evil Angelus days. Familiar or not, one less demon on the streets is always a good thing. Unfortunately, her boyfriend (Ron Melendez) of a couple of centuries doesn't share that sentiment---and he's prepared to take drastic measures to exact revenge. Fred: Amy Acker.

    What kind of drastic measures?

    James, the boyfriend, has surgery that makes him immune to things like sunlight and stakes.

    Yikes! Why doesn’t every vampire have this surgery?

    Because there’s a catch.

    What’s this episode really about?

    Angel coming to grips with Buffy’s death.

    Is Buffy’s death discussed directly this episode?


    Is Buffy mentioned by name?


    Do we meet Holtz?

    We do.

    Do we see Holtz in the present?

    No. Only in flashback.

    Do we see Darla in the present?


    Is Darla in Los Angeles?

    She’s in Puerto Cabazas, Nicaragua.

    Is she still hanging out with Dru?

    Dru does not appear in this episode.

    What’s up with Cordelia?

    When she’s not commiserating with Angel over Buffy, she’s complaining about the growing intensity of her “gift.” “These visions are killing me,” she moans. “They’re getting worse every time.” We also learn that Dennis the ghost has taken to scrubbing Cordy’s naked bod when she’s bathes!

    What’s up with Fred?

    She’s still traumatized from her long stay in Pylea, and has pretty much holed up in one of the hotel rooms these last three months.

    What’s up with Wes and Gunn?

    They visit Krevlornswath (of the Deathwok Clan) at Caritas.

    Is “Angel” really being broadcast in letterbox now?

    It is, and it looks great!

    Is this the “Angel” with the big, new “Lord of the Rings” trailer?

    It is.

    Have you seen this trailer?

    I have not.

    What’s good?

    The boyfriend’s vengeful plotting, as well as what we get to learn about Darla and Holtz.

    What’s not so good?

    All the dialogue with James and Angel about true love seemed a little repetitive and banal to my ears. On the other hand, there’s not that much of it.

    Herc’s rating for “Angel” 3.1?


    The Hercules T. Strong Rating System:

    • ***** better than we deserve
    • **** better than most motion pictures
    • *** actually worth your valuable time
    • ** as horrible as most stuff on TV
    • * makes you quietly pray for bulletins

    Swing the crebbil! Swing the crebbil!

    I am – Hercules!!

Readers Talkback
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  • Sept. 24, 2001, 12:57 a.m. CST

    Can't Wait

    by Toria

    It sounds Fantastic !!

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 3:12 a.m. CST

    The Host Is Still A Semi Regular

    by wolfdog

    I saw Andy Hallett at Dragon Con and he said he would be in at least 13 episodes this season. That means his name won't be in the opening credits yet.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 5:33 a.m. CST

    I can't beleive that after three months of meditation and self r

    by RenoNevada2000

    . . . I still have no will power in avoiding these spoilers less than 24 hours before the damn show airs!!!!! I am weak!!!!! ARRRGGGHHHHH!

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 6:06 a.m. CST


    by delwin

    Why did they kill off Doyle? I still miss Doyle after two seasons. I think he should come back somehow. We've seen stranger things happen on the show.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 6:13 a.m. CST


    by thewoodpecker

    Angel this week and Buffy next week. I am in dweeb heaven! Herc, you rule. Can't wait to see the lovely Fred in something slightly less covering.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 6:19 a.m. CST

    and life begins anew

    by sundown

    well. The best vampire killer in the world? What about the Slayer. Eh Whatever it sounds cool and its letterboxed. Lets hope they have the sense to put the DVDs out this way.


  • Sept. 24, 2001, 7:13 a.m. CST

    Why they killed Doyle...

    by Spoons

    I've heard two reasons: first, that they had planned from the start to kill his character off. Nah, I don't believe that one either. The second story I've heard (possibly false) was that he was a serious coke-head and a major P.I.T.A. Anyone hear anything different?

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 7:54 a.m. CST

    I hope there's a separate LOTR topic later.

    by Twig

    I don't want the LOTR geeks wrecking an Angel tb. Darla pregnant? Logistically, how could a vampire get pregnant? Vampires have no heatbeat, so the kid wouldn't either. But the kid wouldn't technically be undead already. Oh well, it'll get explained. Letterboxed Angel? That is the coolest news! Especially since our WB channel has recpetion problems, which cause the top of the screen to shake. I might not even see that now. Here's to a long season of Herc spoliage.(raises glass, knocks it against screen)

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 8:16 a.m. CST

    Angel Letterboxed For The Whole Season

    by wiseguy2000

    Hey pulp_dusk just wanted to answer you letterboxed question. Yes Angel will be letterboxed the whole season.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 8:48 a.m. CST

    Widescreen or Letterboxed?

    by Niaiserie

    Is it gonna look like ER or is it gonna look like movies that have not been formatted to fit my screen?

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Flat or Scope?

    by Spoons

    Does anyone know the aspect ratio that Angel will be broadcast at? (I assume that this is what was meant by the poster who asked if it would be like E.R.) I'm assuming 16:9, but I haven't heard. Also, as someone who doesn't watch E.R. regularly but has flipped though an ep or two, is that 16:9? It doesn't look like it.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 1:20 p.m. CST

    THREE good reasons to do the "dance of joy" tonight: Buffy on F

    by Smugbug

    You know, I was getting rather bummed about summer leaving - and in Portland, OR you miss summer cuz it is SO short. Anywhoos I then realized it's a good thing since Buffy and Angel will be doing the season premiere thang. Ah, how like in life: there's always a give and take. This season premiere ep of Angel seems VERY good, can't wait....

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 1:59 p.m. CST

    This season

    by DailyEvents

    OK, so I will say I am on the fence about watching Angel or not this season, given that the WB web site says he will be dealing with his "Growing" feelings for Cordy. Argh. Please, the chemistry of two tossed salads. Are we relegated to storylines that work within the WB and UPN's schedules? Please I hope Buffy isn't as doomed this year.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Answers to some questions

    by vidiot

    I too watched the episode early this morning. I have some comments regarding the postings. 1) The definition of widescreen and letterbox are different as applied to broadcast television. Because of HDTV, there is a widescreen mode for 16:9 material. So, when widescreen and TV are used in the same sentence, it applies to HDTV broadcasts. In the case of the current season of Angle, it is letterbox, not widescreen. That is because it is "widescreen" material, but displayed on 4:3 TV, not HDTV (16:9). And it looks like 16:9 material. There is no reason to shoot this 2.25:1, as that would really make for bigger black bars. Also, Warner Bros. is currently not sending out 16:9 material to its affiliates. It would be nice if it was, for those who do have 16:9 TVs (no letterboxing). 2) I only remember Fred being added to the opening credits. 3) Fred is not wearing anything more revealing. 4) As for Darla, I was definately surprised and wondered the same question. But, Angel is a different kind of Vampire. 5) Buffy is not on Fox tonight. Buffy is on fX, a big difference. Do not confuse the two. As a side note, don't miss Cordi's comment after getting the present from Angel. Enjoy the episode.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 2:34 p.m. CST

    The syndication/DVD conundrum

    by BurninBullwinkle

    Buffy's first season will be released within the next six months. It was originally planned for January of this year, but there was a stipulation that got brought up by F/X at the last minute from the contract to show Buffy on their station that forbade the release of the show in home-video format by season until the first one hundred episodes had been cycled through at least once. So twenty weeks, I guess, is approximately how long we're going to have to wait. Unfortunately Fox has not used this extra time to spice up the Region 2 discs. Whereas they could have scraped together more commentaries, the pilot... in short more goodies the release is going to be the same. (While this could be corrected in future releases, I think we can forget about getting the WB's promos which is what a lot of people will bemoan most). Some of you may be asking "why should I buy them if they are going to be shown on cable?" Easy: Besides tape deterioration, there are going to be approximately 2 minutes edited from each episode to make room for more commercials. How and what they are going to edit, I don't know, but that's the word from The Buffy Newswire. Well, I need to finish some thing so I can get home and watch the season premiere of Angel! Wahoo! The Buff is back! (I've been saving a bottle of my finest IBC Black Cherry Soda for the occassion.)

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 4:04 p.m. CST

    I can't believe I almost forgot it was on tonight. [no hotpants

    by It's A Duck

    Thank you, AICN.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 5:45 p.m. CST

    The LOTR promo

    by RenoNevada2000

    I've never seen an advertisment promoted before as part of programing before. An ad for an ad . . .

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 5:57 p.m. CST

    FOTR trailer

    by carouselambra

    Oh my.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 6:24 p.m. CST

    It's sad when even the ads have ads

    by Geekgrrl

    Stay tuned for the LOTR trailer.... You're just moments away from the LOTR trailer.... It's a friggin' ad people! And it's not like they won't play it over and over and over. Sheesh.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 6:34 p.m. CST

    Good ep

    by Twig

    First off, the letterboxing is the coolest thing ever! I wonder what got them to even think of doing that. I still don't see how Darla's pregnant? Logistically it seems imossible, but then they did have a vampire remove his heart and still live. Rule bending is fun. But Angel should know better. Safe sex is wise:)

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 6:41 p.m. CST


    by Funkaboo

    I've been in shock since 9:56pm. I'm confident though that Joss will explain it all in a way that makes perfect sense...well in a world of demons and vampires anyway. I'm so excited! Thought tonight's episode was great. Loved the ending! N.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 6:53 p.m. CST


    by shimmer

    Well I'm not sure of Joss's rules but what if Darla got pregnant before she became a vampire (Lindsey most likely?) ... Would the kid be half vampire (Blade, anyone?)

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 6:58 p.m. CST

    How the twist ending could work logically...

    by dp4m

    ... so Darla's pregnant. My first thought was "Hey, we get to see Lindsay again this season!" because he was banging Darla a bunch BEFORE she got revamped again. So HE'S likely the father as it would be extremely unlikely that Angel can sire normal children. Plus she didn't bang Angle until AFTER she was vamped again, right? So her advanced healing rate probably explains why she's come to (looking like) full-term so quickly as well as why she can't give birth (if they have no breath, and organs don't move they likely can't have their "water break," etc.) and is looking for a shaman. So the only thing is -- does Lindsay have her syphillis now? =)

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 7:46 p.m. CST

    Joss shooting for a show 20 years hence???

    by poppyzeed

    With Darla's pregnancy and Whedon's penchant for recurring characters, the child of Darla & Angel could be a (comic) superhero. Just think about it. If the show gets dull, Joss could fast-forward 20 years hence, and have Angel face-off his son (or daughter maybe). Which will be a while new dimension for the show. These are all guesses, but let me the first to have said it. Should it happen.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 8:02 p.m. CST

    so is buffy gonna be letterboxed too?

    by yeah i'm a jerk!

    darla is probably pregnant with the spawn of the demon that shares angel's body. at least that's my theory until joss tells us the real story.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 8:22 p.m. CST

    DARLA'S WHAT?!?!?!?!

    by MGTHEDJ

    Greetings everyone. Been away from the Buffyverse stuff this summer because I didn't want to know too much. Good, solid ep. Darla's pregnant-WHAT? This should be fun. It was interesting to see this actors from SIX YEARS AGO on the FX broadcast today at 7/6 central. If you missed it, it will reair at 4/3 central tuesday afternoon on FX. Those of you without cable don't fret. Check TV GUIDE and see if this weekend a BROADCAST channel is running it (one of mine is). Apparently this will be the same as the ER reruns. 5 days a week on cable and one or two eps a weekend on a broadcast channel. And remember, don't say the "B" word.-----later-----m

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 9:03 p.m. CST

    Amy Acker... please marry me!!!!

    by Psyclops

    She will be mine... oh yes,... she will be mine. Seriously, she has got to be the cutest little thing to ever grace the small screen! Anwyay, this episode was mediocre. I was expecting more.

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 9:10 p.m. CST

    Did that last shot of Darla creep you guys out?

    by Psyclops

    Except for the ending and that little bit in Fred's room I thought the show could have been much better. That villain was weak! But... only time will tell. Maybe this season will end up being better than the last! Oh yeah,... that 'Fellowship' trailer made me wet myself.

  • Wierd. You know this was a strong season premiere. Nicely done. And I'm glad that they are finally going to do something about Cordie's visions - poor girl. And again, my favorite line was uttered by the Cordie, too: "(did the ) Imarens (?) do bracelets.....cuff links...?" I was rather worried about Angel after BTVS moved to that "other" network..but I doubt no more. It has gotten better and can carry itself. As for a possible Dawn spinoff, hmmm. I'm thinking that a Fred spinoff might be kinda cool. I know it's too early, but I've started to like this new member of the team.....

  • Sept. 24, 2001, 10:22 p.m. CST

    editing problems?!

    by Midknight

    Hi, all. Go easy on me, it's my first time posting. I just wanted to know if anyone else caught the rather sloppy editing during some of the fight scenes, most notably during the fight by the car and James/Angel fight at the hotel? If there was ever a case for "production problems," this was it. I mean, whazzupwitdat?! Anyways, I was curious if anyone caught it and if, so, does anyone know what was going on? Thanks.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 1:16 a.m. CST

    This is not a good television show.

    by Hey

    Angel is the worst thing a TV show can be: Boring. It's not even fun trash. Angel was only really good when characters from another, infinitely better show made appearances. It was fun when Faith showed up, sad and tragic when Buffy crossed over. Even the most emotional moment of last season -- Willow showing up at the very end -- was great because Willow carries with her all the emotion of BVS. Now they won't even utter her name (okay, one tiny mumble). Yikes. Not good. It's funny, the best metaphor for this show came from the only marginally watchable moment in tonight's episode -- Fred talking about how you wait around for things to click. Two years and an episode, I'm done waiting.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 3:36 a.m. CST

    Blade anyone?

    by Gold-Dragon

    If I recall my movie/comic book history, Blade's mother was pregnant with him when she got turned. Maybe Darla was as well. As such, I wonder if Joss is trying for the "Daywalker" bit ala Blade.....

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 3:39 a.m. CST

    Darla's gestational period

    by Asmodeus

    It looked like Darla was eight or nine months pregnant already. Now, I don't remember the exact timeline, but I don't think it's been nine months since the Angel-boning. Even then, the only vampire pregnancy thing previously addressed confirmed that Angel could not have children (at least not with Buffy), so don't think vamps can have kids at all, outside extremely rare magikal circumstances. I.e, even if Angel was "special" for some reason when he nailed Darla (remember the entering Kate's home uninvited thing), that doesn't mean Darla can GET pregnant unless Darla is "special" in some way too. On the other hand, I can believe a loophole that allows a nine-months pregnant woman to give birth to an also-fully-vamped baby if the mother is vamped just before birth, but even then the baby vamp could not "grow up." I think it seems more likely that Darla was pregnant with Lindsay's brat before she got vamped, and special measures were taken during her re-vamping to allow her to carry a half-human, half-vamp(?) baby to term.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 4:08 a.m. CST

    The WWF sucked too...

    by Lt.DanXan

    If all the Monday night shows start to suck shall we all start watching Monday Night Football? Dennis Miller? GOD No Help Us!!!

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 4:23 a.m. CST

    As an episode as a whole

    by spike fan

    It was ok not bad but not great. DB was as woodden as usual. And Charisma had to carry him in most of the scenes. Sorry but the Angel charachter is very multi dimensional but DB just does not have the range to play him.He was only hired for his looks. I also think the writers are starting to reliase that now as well. The dialouge was not great but Greenwalt has never been great at that. For the story overall and the twist at the end yes they were good. But I am looking forward to Tim Minears episode cause I think he is the best writer on either show.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 4:37 a.m. CST

    My theory on the deal with Darla

    by Wicked Willow

    I suspect this pregnancy is part of a spell to bring Holtz back so that he can kill Angel(she's crazy enough to do it)-as one of the other posters pointed out,it's only been three months(maybe 4)since she & Angel did the deed and Darla looked about 8-9 months gone. That being said,I liked the show-flashbacks to Angelus/Darla days are always cool,Fred is very sweet,Cordy's hair looked great plus she and phantom Dennis are getting very familar and best line of the night goes to Gunn:"Who has time for love when you're doing it with the demons? How sad and wrong did that come out?". Oh,and the LoTR trailer was cool!

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 6:05 a.m. CST

    Jumping the Shark

    by Maria Callous

    I was as anxious to see last night's "Angel" as anyone, but I thought it had way too much banal exposition and character re-identification. Are they assuming that they have to speak slowly and be super informative for the new, post-7th Heaven crowd? ... Also, Cordy and Angel? Ugh! NO!!...You know, I would have thought that a show with vampire characters would be the one show where we wouldn't have to see "a very special episode" with a baby/cute younger relative introduced to spike ratings. I guess they can't premiere a LOTR trailer and surprise us with letterboxing every week. So we get LOTR trailer, letterboxing, Fred from Pylea (shades of Cousin Oliver) AND a surprise pregnancy this season? SOMEBODY's obviously not too confident in the show without the "Buffy" lead in. Ugh! Last night sucked ASS, not NECK! Focus on the writing, people, not the gimmicks! You can't have Fonzie jumping the fucking shark every episode to save you!!!

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 7:19 a.m. CST

    The new spawn

    by Drath

    So we've got a child coming? Well I think people saying it could be Lindsey's and not Angel's are cleverer than shit, because that did't occur to me at all(and I'm supposed to know this show!). I don't think this premiere blew me away, but none of the prmieres by team Whedon have done that. EVER. Maybe the first episode of Buffy, but since that lackluster movie came first I can't say Buffy's appearance blew me off my ass either. This is a SERIES, and the best moments come with momentum. So James and Elizabeth weren't intersting, that's why they're dead. Too many interesting vampires have been prematurely staked on the Whedon shows, so I'm glad that they avoided it this time. But about that pregnancy, some one mentioned that if Lindsey is the father than shouldn't he have Darla's STD. Excellent point! This is either a sign of his eventual demise, or possibly, one would hope, a prelude to his vamping the same as with Darla. The child must be important to Wolfram and Hart as it was conceived sometime during the height of their manipulation last season. What the hell WOULD a child born to a vampire be like? I hope it's not a Blade redo, or the means by which Holtz will return, but I expect the child will figure into all those prophecies with Angel's name on them. I'm not sayng the child must be Angel's to be important, but confusion over who the father is(like Angel won't wonder/hope if it's his) will involve him soon enough. A good way to start the season, even if it didn't break any records. I also wonder what that creepy doctor was up to.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 8:40 a.m. CST


    by zer0cool

    Darla had Syphilis, which in the 21st century is about as fatal as a hangnail. I'm going to have to agree with the Lindsey paternity theory, and I guess the "half-human" aspect would allow the vamp child to mature ala "Blade". (Face it, that kid-vamp "Anointed One" from Buffy's first season was never very menacing, although little Kirsten Dunst made one mean little vamp). As far as Boreanaz's acting, I think he's better than a lot of people give him credit for. He's certainly improved with experience. Given the proper writing, (see BTVS season 3), he's quite good. And this show is a Looooong way from jumping any shark.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Missing a clue

    by RenoNevada2000

    I think we're missing a clue re: Darla's pregnancy, What was Goatee Guy giving her? Contact information for a very powerful shaman. (Not sure of the exact quote off the top of my head). It leads me to believe that this is not a "normal" (or as normal as things get on this show and BVS) pregnancy. Perhaps Darla is serving as a host for some creature making its way into our world? Or maybe as someone else has suggested this is someway of pulling Holtz from the past to the present- baby Holtz pops out rapidly grows to adulthood over the space of some episodes to create the requisite drama and then gets its memory restored. It would be interesting to see how he responds to Darla being his "Mother."

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 10:39 a.m. CST

    Fight Scenes

    by BurninBullwinkle

    I really liked the ep, especially in comparison to last year's premiere, but I too noticed just how choppy and poor the fight scenes were. Unfortunately I don't think it was as much a problem of bad editing as a stylistic decision to make it more "MTV"-ish. The score seemed to be leaning that way too with more electronica where there had been excellent orchestral concoctions before. I hope this is abandoned soon. As far as the letterboxing goes... I don't get it. Now before you jump on me, I refuse to buy full-frame DVDs of widescreen movies and am a huge fan of the format, but for some reason it seemed off to me. Maybe it's because I think they did it not out of a belief it would be beneficial to the show visually, but to put an aesthetic wedge between Angel and it's parent series or to simply make everyone go "oooh".

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 11:17 a.m. CST

    Could have been better.

    by simian

    It was WEAK, but still pretty good, nice to see the widescreen, nice to see it back. The Flaws- the writing was pretty limp, especially the obvious recap at the beginning- the fight scenes were really badly edited and executed, they looked lame. The good- the bits of dialogue regarding Buffy was nice, everybody looks fit and ready for the new season. Season openers that dont have a cliffhanger as a lead in are usually pretty weak, so I

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 11:28 a.m. CST

    the Darla Pregnancy, And action sequences...

    by 1stGodling

    Let's see...Where to start. Neither Angel or Darla are normal Vampires. This was proven last season. Angel has a soul. He went to hell, and pulled himself back by sheer force of will. He is the "chosen" tool of "The Powers That BE". He is NO normal Vampire. Darla Is similar. She died and went to hell. She was summoned back by Wolfram& HART as a HUMAN with a soul. She was turned by Dru(a Mystic in her own right} and boned a "souled" Vampire, and Angel didn't lose his soul afterward(in theory). That's not normal. AT ALL. so .... it stands to reason that the combination of these two oddities might be ab;e to create a new Vampiric Spawn with powers similar to The SLAYER! Holtz anyone?!?!?! To anyone who watched the show, and saw the fight sequences. if you liked them ,GOOD. I enjoyed them deely. it can only get beter from here. To anyone who didn't like them. THey kicked the ass of any episodes of Dark Angel. those have the worst editing i have ever seen. G.N.L.S.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 12:03 p.m. CST


    by honey5172

    Overall, I am a huge fan of giving Joss Whedon the freedom to see where he is going. I think he is an amazing writer. But I am monumentally disappointed with the way he addressed Buffy's death on Angel. I was absolutely devastated watching the last episode when Willow comes to tell him the news. I think the viewers were cheated out of a whole lot of drama (which means some great dialogue and interaction between all of the characters) when the funeral happened off screen. I know that UPN/WB crossovers are probably not easy to pull off but I am disappointed in missing out on those episodes. Mostly because I look forward to the scripts that Mr. Whedon has written. Overall, I'm still a huge fan of Angel. I think it's an excellent show and I wouldn't do anything else with that hour on Monday but I feel cheated out of a whole lot of potential TV. I thought his addressing of the aftermath was excellent (the exchanges between Cordy and Angel). But I'm willing to bet he has something planned to give back to the loyal viewers. He knows that people are invested so I am hoping to see something in the future that reflects what was missing in the opening episode.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 1:03 p.m. CST

    To RenoNevada2000 re: Missing a clue...

    by dp4m

    ... actually, I addressed that in my "Lindsay as Dad" theory. I may have skimmed, so let me clarify my thoughts (your theory is VERY valid IMO as well because we know Holt is coming so this is a decent way to get him there). The shaman could be being sought due to Darla NOT being able to give birth normally. Since vampires have no breath (according to previous canon, right?) this would mean it is likely their lungs, and by extension, their other organs don't move (with the possible exception of their undead, mystical hearts). Since their organs don't move it would be unlikely she'd be able to have the baby come out in the normal way -- water wouldn't break, etc. In that case, she'd need a specialist and shaman would fit the bill (Drog Demon MD wouldn't be good, 'cause he'd want to keep the baby as a collection) for a mystic ritual (a la Beastmaster perhaps?) to get the kid out. Also, to zer0cool, you are correct -- I forgot that DARLA had the "advanced syphillis" and that Lindsay would just catch it at the early stage and be able to treat it.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 1:41 p.m. CST


    by A Big Potato

    Simply regarding the whole syphilis thing... If I can remember as far back as my high-school health classes... I don't think you'd want syphilis in ANY STAGE! Cause, if memory serves me, once you got it, you ain't gettin' rid of it! True, he wouldn't die... but it's still BAAAAAAD NEWS!

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 2:13 p.m. CST

    It's been a lot more than three months

    by DomisInnerChild

    Timeline-wise, it's been stated that it's been three months since Buffy died. They also sent a fairly long period of time on the host's world and there were the uneasy episodes where Angel was wacky trying to get back in good with the crew (about 1/4 to 1/3 of the season all in all). Considering episodes don't follow at set time schedule, she could realistically be easily be 8-9 months pregnant without any speeded up unnatural factors. Then again, you could argue she's three and a half months pregnant because all the episodes seemed to happen in the space of days during that period.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 2:21 p.m. CST

    My bad

    by DomisInnerChild

    Actually that's my bun baking in the oven. Production wrapped about eight months ago, there were a lot of drinks at the wrap party.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 3:15 p.m. CST

    Where's the love?

    by dreamland

    I'd have to agree with Honey5172. I've been for some waiting for serious emotional damage from Buffy's death. Seems like the network split has these two great shows barely mentioning each other. Quote unquote, don't use the B word. Kinda disappointing. But hey, I'm still watching. Hopefully Joss will give us all the drama we can handle with next weeks premeire. Quick question: Anybody have an idea who is the musical artist used in the Heartthrob episode trailer? Very cool goth/ethereal stuff.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 5:26 p.m. CST

    "Editing problems"

    by Morty Viventi

    Those jump cuts were almost *certainly* intentional. They do that on shows all the time now. This particular case looked a little sloppy though, since there wasn't that much of a difference between frames, so it almost looks accidental. Apparently we are assumed to have such short attention spans that even a few seconds of action need to be pared down to their essentials.

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 6:44 p.m. CST

    Cordy's Breasts

    by Led Gopher

    Is it possible that no one caught that line Cordy tossed out in the first act when Angel gave her the neclace? The line being something like, "Look how well it brings out my breasts! You knew you were all thinking that." I almost died when she said that. Editing mishaps and weak plots aside, let's not forget that a lot of this stuff is done for fans like us. Without passing judgement on any of us, let's admit it, we love/like/enjoy these shows otherwise we wouldn't be watching. Also many of us are really attracted to the cast members, i.e. Fred, Cordy, Buffy, Anya, and Willow (sorry Tara), and one would have to assume that JW reads these talk backs, and sees potential in our ramblings. He and the writters (sp?) probably figure that lines like that will make us smile, and enjoy the show more, I was so geeked the whole ep. and am even more so for BTVS next week. I don't know if I have a point, but I just was surprised nobody else (unless I missed it) hasn't said anything about that line, I damn near popped when I heard it. PLEASE LET US HOPE "ANGEL" CAN SURVIVE W/O BTVS BACKING IT UP. DAMN COOPERATE BASTIDS @ WB!!!

  • Sept. 25, 2001, 8:07 p.m. CST

    Amen Led Gopher

    by MGTHEDJ

    Amen. Stay safe tonight.-----later----m

  • The guy was trying to give her a shot of tequila, if that's who you are referring to. (I'm pretty sure) Did you notice her suck on the lemon after she sucked on him? I thought it was pretty funny. Darla being pregnant is very weird. I don't know what to think yet. What's going on with the Phantom Dennis? Did anyone else find that scene strange? Running a bath, and bathing Cordelia? Will there be a relationship for Cordy after all? LOL!

  • Sept. 26, 2001, 8:04 a.m. CST

    Angel/Cordy "Relationship"

    by calvinthefish

    I went on the WB site and was horror-fied to read that Angel was "reconciling" his growing feelings for Cordy. What the hell is up with that? Joss better not entertain that idea at all. Buffy is still around. And anyway, I thought Cordy was in love with the guy who fought Angel the Demon in Pylea???

  • Sept. 26, 2001, 8:41 a.m. CST

    Angel still has his soul

    by lycanthrope

    Having sex with Darla wouldn't cause Angel to lose his soul - the curse says he has to experience one moment of "true happiness", and that could only happen with Buffy, his one "true love" - it may sound a bit sappy, but this is the mythology Whedon put forth... Now that Angel and Buffy know the consequences of their love, I'm not sure he could ever experience bliss even with her - HOWEVER - happiness does not necessarily equate with sex - what if being reunited with Buffy, seeing that she was back, made him TRULY HAPPY for one brief second - would he lose his soul?

  • Sept. 26, 2001, 9:38 a.m. CST


    by southernbelle

    This cannot be. She's a vampire. Vampires DON'T get pregnant. Unless...thought here, and other people come back with other thoughts please. When she was human, did she have any relations with Angel, or was that when she was a vampire? that confused me! And if she got pregnant a looong time ago when she was with Angel, she's been holding it in for quite some time!! Maybe Wolfram and Hart had something to do with it...I didn't see any of them in the premiere!! And the LOTR trailer...OH MY GOD!! Soo awesome!! Sorry, had to say another word about it. I didn't blink or breathe during the trailer.

  • Sept. 27, 2001, 7:52 a.m. CST

    Would they SHOW Dennis already!

    by Drath

    I forgot to mention Dennis! He's been in the openning credits for three season now, and they still won't show him as the ghost. That actor got a bum deal. I wish they would show him instead of constantly teasing us. The poor guy has to watch Cordy all the time and can't, you know, contend. I guess they're afraid it could get even more hokey if Dennis is actualized by an actor. I think if they did it right it would better than the floating props gimmick all the time. At LEAST give him a voice. He'd be a better addition to the regular cast than Fred.

  • Sept. 27, 2001, 2:54 p.m. CST

    people, people, people...

    by supershauna

    Darla was fully human. She had human sex with Lindsey. then Dru changed HER BLOOD and she became a vampire again. where do you think the baby gets it fluids from...the baby would've changed too! Think of Jessica Atredies (from the book 'Dune') when she is becoming a Reverend Mother. the baby she was pregnant with changed at the same time! so I think she needs to do something that will allow the baby to be born (I'm surprised her body didn't reject it as a parasite already) and something to let the baby grow past it's first day. that would suck to be an eternal newborn. I don't see why it would have to be half human since all of the blood in it's whole body would have been changed, but I won't be surprised if Joss says it's half-human. and I'm just glad to have the show back period.

  • Sept. 28, 2001, 9:13 p.m. CST

    by supremelogic

    The editing sucked. What, did they hire Michael Bay's editor? Fred is wack. Whedon is overpopulating this show just like on the Buffy show. Usually when this happens, certain characters get pushed into the shadows. Who wants to bet that it will be Gunn? Gunn really hasnt developed much since his introduction but his presence adds some color(pun intended) to an otherwise lily-white show...just like the Buffy show. Every other cast member has had a developmental arc but him. But still, I'm just glad they have a Brother on the show! Maybe the writers will let him do something this season.