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W.T.C. removed from ZOOLANDER too!
Harry here, well it seems like the adjusting to current affairs is continuing as an emergency digital erasing of the World Trade Center was quickly enacted by the filmmakers of ZOOLANDER, according to this report. With SPIDER-MAN doing the same, you have to wonder how wide spread this is going to be. I had one letter already that suggested that Spielberg should remove the WTC from the DVD edition of A.I. since it is no longer accurate pre-history. Sigh... progress on the march I suppose...
harry,
saw the story on the removal of the WTC from spiderman and thought you might
be interested in this little tidbit as well -
my roomate works for a small FX house here in LA called Pacific Vision. they
have just finished a last minute removal of the WTC from a scene in Ben
Stiller's new film, Zoolander. apparently, there was a shot of a building
with a big "z" on the top (or maybe the bad-guys headquarters) that had the
WTC and the rest of the skyline in it.
just figured I'd pass that along.
tripwire
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+ Expand All
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I think I would much rather see the WTC remembered like this didn't happen. I think by removing it we are helping the terrorists wipe the buildings from our memory.
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This is insane. It would be absurd if it wasn't so sad.
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although this isn't as catastrophic as Spider-Man's deletion of the WTC, it just goes to show that we need to fucking LEVEL ALL THE COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD THAT HARBOR TERRORISTS!
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The terrorists have defeated Hollywood and much of the American public.
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They may rebuild the towers... who knows. I doubt it, but who knows?
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the last thing you want is for 90% of the audience to get bummed out because of an establishing shot.
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Sep 13, 2001 7:43:13 PM CDT
I don't know if this is feasable at this point, but I think in t
by wee willie
They should be renamed the 'Peace Towers' as a monument to the victims, the rescue workers, and the spirit of freedom. I know this may not be the time to talk about it, but I think rebuilding them would symbolically represent not only the futility of terrorist action, but the enduring spirit of the Citizens of New York. Just a thought. God bless everyone in NYC.
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i was refering to Zoolander as a comedy, not A.I.
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I disagree with the digital erasing of the WTC from current movies. You might as well go back and take it out of anything else where it appears. Homer's car is now left at Rockefeller Center. We have never filmed the WTC before. We have always been at war with Eurasia. Watch it, folks. The fascists are stirring. Here's to an America that's Forever Free.
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And what if they rebuild the World Trade Center towers? Will they then digitally reinsert them into copies of A.I. so that history is accurate again????
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They can't win either way. If they leave the WTC in, people are going to see them and it's going to sadden them. On the other hand, if they digitally erase them then people are just gonna see that they're not there and they're gonna say "hey look, the WTC is gone....just like in real life."-------------------------------I personally would prefer it if they were left in. When a family member dies you don't throw out all your pictures of them and pretend like they never existed.-------------------------------To everyone shouting "kill! kill!", please stop. You have every right to be angry, but we're just letting the cycle of hate and violence continue.
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Let me just say that digitally removing the towers is the single stupidest idea in a long history of stupid ideas. Although I agree that not everyone can be pleased, it's ridiculous to think that the (politically) correct thing to do would be to remove them from the offending films, thus eventually wiping them from memory. Hollywood, I spit at thee.
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I agree with RevSam...by Hollywood erasing the Towers, they are erasing what good what they stood for: Peace, Prosperity, and Freedom. Shame on you for doing this, by making it worse. What will your "edits" do? If you do show New York without them, you are in fact erasing them from existence. Hell, I don't know what to say because there are a lot of people having different opionions: Some may say that they should be erased because they could cause emotions to flow, others could say they should remain in the films to show the greatness of what America 'was'. Whatever. They are going to be rebuilt, and we will crush those terrorists who have fucked with us.
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If they remove the WTC in A.I. they should go through every movie ever made that depicts a future with places, countries, landmarks and historical events that are no longer in existence or now proven false. Hell, 2001 a space odyssey will need to be remade, last time I checked we weren't planning any manned trips to jupiter. Leave movies the way they are, don't let terrorism win Hollywood over. I can see the change in the spider man trailer and poster, the WTC is so prominant in the ads. But to remove the towers from any movie to be released, unless its VERY prominent and to be released very shortly, is giving in to terrorism. Lets not pretend the WTC ever existed. You don't hide from pain, you face it. You don't pretend something bad ever happend because then it will never heal. Don't Disney-fy the situation and just hose down the past and pretend it never happend. Thats my 2 cents anyway.
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this is a great tragedy, but now we're trying to erase WTC from Existence??
Do the WTC buildings blow up and collapse in these movies?
If not, how is just SHOWING these buildings offensive to anyone? -
Sep 13, 2001 8:08:11 PM CDT
Why don't they just remove them from the 1976 King Kong remake w
by catbarf the 3rd
This digital revisionist history stuff is getting ridiculous...the past's idea of the future (old sci-fi) and the past's idea of itself (any movie from any year) is one of the most important forms of cultural documentation that we have. You take away the judgement frame of mind in which the movie was made and you destroy the cultural importance of the original movie. It's IMPORTANT that we remember that we took those buildings for granted right up until the very moment they collapsed, and their presence in movies that are still being finished right now is all a part of that. This is all OK and understandable, but I hope they don't start doing it with old movies...though I guess that is just a speculative concern...so far.
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Folks, I believe there is time for tact. But this goes beyond being sensitive, this is sending a message to the terrorists that they have accomplished, in a small degree, to hurt us so bad that we can't even stand to see these buildings any longer. I think we should keep these buildings in movies like Spiderman and Zoolander as a memorial for what happened Tuesday. To say the WTC is being removed for accuracy is assuming the worst about the filmmakers. I believe they are doing what they think is right for the families of this tragedy, but I think we should have these buildings in the film so we DO remember what happened, we should never forget or try to sweep these events under the rug of our memories. I would like to see these buildings especially in Spiderman because in the trailer they looked almost golden, it would be a nice tribute and a final bow for the towers that have represented so much to so many and now even more.
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Sep 13, 2001 8:35:34 PM CDT
I wouldn't look forward to being in charge of altering "2001" in
by critical bill
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Sep 13, 2001 8:39:24 PM CDT
Please people, the only way to honor the memory of the victims i
by smeg for brains
Is to eliminate every bit of evidence that there ever was such a thing as The World Trade Center. In fact you should never again refer to this building, as it is inapropriate. Along the same lines, I propose that we never again mention the Holocaust, and remove all mention of it and concentration camps from everything, including the film Schindlers List. My next goal is the removal of all references to World War II.
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It will create a sombre mood. To some it may be offensive, others it may be a tribute, but it will be a sad moment of memories.
Importantly though viewers should understand the reason for it remaining or being pulled, whatever. You've got your views and have expressed them. The companies have there views and also expressed it. It may differ from your point of view, but you should atleast respect and work together to understand the tragedy.
A movie such as spiderman is difficult to comprehend. The sole theme of it was to see someone swinging across a city in a grand form of escapism. There is no denying for years to come, any movie with related themes will give rise to anger or sorrow.
Like every detail in a movie is painstakingly scrutinised for errors (don't try and nitpick to just prove wrong), the decisions that are made will surely have been thought out honestly.
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AI was released lastnite and I went to see it. I try not to spoil my movies, so had no clue. It was a sad moment, that I understood.
Am I supposed to have guilt for something that could not be helped, from within my capabilities? No, so why do I get a sense of it when I was watching this movie? It is human nature and culture, hard to explain, and especially difficult to express.
I hope you understand my views and eachother.
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but your post is stupid. When a private company decides to alter it's own product in light of a recent disaster, it's not an infringement on your rights. It's not censorship. It's sensitivity. Facism has nothing to do with it. Movies are movies. That's it. Changing a film BEFORE it's released (in the case of Zoolander) is not revisionism in any sense of the word. Changing movies after they've been made IS REVISIONSISM, BUT IT"S STILL JUST REVISIONISM OF A MOVIE. Changing a movie to make it more entertaining or more accurate is not facism, especially when it's done by private film corporations. I don't care if you just read 1984 for your 9th grade english class, if you think that's what 1984 is about, then you missed the point of the book completely.
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Sep 13, 2001 9:29:29 PM CDT
WE NEED TO START AN OFFICIAL TALKBACK BOARD FOR THIS PURPOSE!
by hidden speaker
Like many of you, I am shocked, saddend, scared, and in some ways hungry for revenge. But the issue here is the deletion of these great towers from these movies. I FEEL THAT IT IS WRONG TO REMOVE THEM. If victim's families see any of these movies, I'm sure they wouldn't mind seeing the New York skyline the way IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE! Eliminating the presence of these towers from Spiderman and Zoolander is ignoring the problem. Denial. In fact, by removing them, they will be depicting a New York that has already been lost to terrorism which, I belive, is not the case. Leaving the buildings in these films will be a much bigger 'FUCK YOU!' to the terrorists than taking them out. The objective of terrorism is to terrify. And if we are so scared and defeated that we can't bear to look at these buildings again, then that means that the bastards who did this have come one step closer to achieving their goal. I would like to lobby HARRY. HARRY, I HOPE YOU SET UP AN OFFICIAL PETITION ON THIS SITE TO ADDRESS THIS MATTER. Do I think Zoolander will be less funny, or a worse movie if the towers are removed? No. It won't make that much of a difference within the context of the movie's plot etc... But THAT'S NOT THE POINT. The point is, that regardless of the prominence the WTC might have had in these movies, taking it out is , in a way, saying we give up.
And before you jump on my back, I'm not being insensitive. A good friend of Me and My sister works at the Morgan Stanley firm in the WTC. She is still unaccounted for, and I am extremely hurt and upset. So from the vantage point of someone who has been (in)directly victimized by this atrocity, lEAVE THE TOWERS WHERE THEY ARE! The only people you'll be helping are the enemy..
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Sep 13, 2001 10:09:17 PM CDT
And what about that Simpsons episode, when Homer goes to NYC and
by petros000
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Hollywood editing a few films that are about to come out is not censorship. It's called sensitivity. Something obviously a disturbing number of you, including Harry, lack. Do you think the majority of us want to be reminded of this tragic event? Do you think the people who lost their loved ones in this want to see the buildings that is now their tomb anytime soon?
This is the right move, I agree, for the immediate future. Note I say immediate future. Movies that are coming out in the next few weeks and month. No we should not change forever, but by god please tell me we're human enough to be sensitive to a tragedy that isn't even't more than three days old!!!
And thank you Harry, for starting a nonsensical paranoia that they will start editing everything, including AI, off of little or no evidence. I find the feeling I get that you're trying to get a "they're censoring all of hollywood over this!" story out of this horrible tragedy and loss of human life, downright sickens me.
And do you realize how petty this seems, bickering and whining over so far only two confirmed edits in only two movies? Oh yeah, this is such an onslaught of censorship. Perhaps you need this fantasy escapism to cope with this tragedy, but if it's heroes you want....go turn on your television and hear about the ones in reality.
Defend your precious movies all you want. I love them a ton myself, but I know when there's a time for cries of "censorship" and where there's a time to grieve and try and get through a tragedy still fresh in the minds and hearts of most people.
"Sigh" indeed, Harry. Sigh indeed. -
While we're at it, we can replace all the product placement in Blade Runner. Good thing Pearl Harbor isn't on DVD yet, there's still plenty of time to take out that one scene, where Japan attacked our ships. I feel that movie will be more accessable to viewers. Let's all take hollywood's lead and bury our heads in the sand.
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its not inaccurate if they rebuild the world trade center towers
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Sep 13, 2001 11:49:03 PM CDT
my feelings on the digital removal of the towers from said movie
by a goonie
when i first heard bout the removal of the WTC from Spidey, i thought it could work. an interesting idea. but after i read what Harry had to say, i changed my mind. everyone here on this board is making some great points. this is stupid. from now on, any movie that is shot in NYC (or really Manhattan) will not have the Twin Towers. they WILL be missing. and that's that. there will be thousands of movies that include shots of that gorgeous skyline to come, and they will not have the WTC in them. but for the movies that are already well into shooting, or finished shooting, or even just about to be released (like Zoolander), leave the images as they are. this is a sad situation either way. and i think we should allow the World Trade Center, those two towering buildings, to be preserved on film, in which will be their last chance EVER to do so. in Zoolander, Spiderman, and others like Serendipity and Sidewalks of New York (which i'm sure DO include shots of the towers), we see the last chance for those towers to be immortalized on screen. there are numerous movies out there made in NYC, since the creation of the WTC, which have the towers featured in certain shots and/or scenes. and now we have a few movies that were in production, or rather post-production, just prior to the occurence of this horrible tragedy. let those movies be. pushing back release dates is one thing. i agree with that. we don't need an Arnie movie (even tho i love the guy) about terrorists and him goin' all vigilante style on some Columbian druglords. not right now. and when "O" got pulled due to the Columbine shootings, i totally understand. it was a very good decision. but this erasure of a national landmark is unnecessary. leave it be. my dad was saying how this comes out of people not quite knowing how to pay their respects when it comes to a situation like this one. and that's true. there's confusion here. should we leave them, or should we not? the studios have the final call here, but i do hope that a lot of care and thought does or has gone into their decision. for the last time ever, the Twin Towers can be immortalized on film in a small handful of movies all due for release in the next year or so. they are already immortalized, captured forever in numerous movies. but this is the last chance. the last chance to add a few more motion pictures to that long list. and i don't think we should erase the images of two iconic buildings that can never ever again be photographed... by any camera for that matter.
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While seeing the Towers in Spider-Man or Zoolander may give people bad thoughts about the horror of Sept 11, won't seeing NO WTC in these movies, say, 10 years from now, after NYC has rebuilt the Towers (and you bet your ass they will, God Bless America,) have the same empty, chilling effect? What, are they going to re-add them once we finally behead bin Laden? MCVamp has an answer, folks (not a PERFECT answer, but....) Instead of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to digitally take out the WTC, do this: A simple, plainly worded title scroll that says something to this effect: "The following motion picture was filmed before the horrifying terrorist attack that took thousands of innocent lives within New York's World Trade Center and its surrounding areas. However, rather than remove the structure from this and other productions filmed before this tragedy, it has been left intact, as a tribute to both the monuments and to the innocents whose lives were lost within. Pretending that these monuments were not standing when this film was created gives even more unneccesary power to the cowards that even today try to threaten our lives and our freedoms. Because we, as Americans, are confident that the United States and New York City will rebuild these two shining monuments to our personal freedom and prosperity, we have chosen to keep the original, historically accurate depictions of the World Trade Center intact, and not let those who would inflict terror, pain, and fear upon us win another battle from us as we wage war on their evils." THEN, donate all that money that would have been spent erasing the WTC to the Red Cross or other relief funds helping the victims, and move on. Or at least put the message on the DVD. Oh well. Removing the WTC won't damage the films, I suppose. It's just that I hate the fact that, no matter WHAT we do, leave them in or not, we will be reminded that the New York skyline was violently and hatefully damaged by godless zealots. It is a sad, inescapable fact. God bless the victims, families, and recovery teams over in NYC and DC. God bless the United States and all her loyal allies.
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I make no representation about the validity of this, but, somebody just sent me this link... from http://www.indymedia.org.il/imc/israel/webcast/display.php3?article_id=6946 It says: "...the [scenes of] Palestinians celebrating the bombing, out on the streets... WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait!" It makes the tragedy no less, but I'm certain that those images have incited some of racial reprisals that have happened locally. If so, that's horribly irresponsible of CNN. BTW, for those interested, CBC Newsworld has been airing various reports that the US media has been too narrow-focused in singling out Osama Bin Laden, and that he's a small part of a larger multi-terrorist alliance. Some of the hijackers were Egyptian, some where Saudi, etc. It's disturbing that CNN is trying to package it all up so neatly when the real picture may be much more complicated with no singular "head to cut off". I do hope that the US gov't will be more responsible about its promised reprisal than the media has been.
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I know that they're removing the WTC from these films b/c seeing them in a film will just bring up memories of the disaster all over again. As if we can stop thinking about it. But how long do we need to do this? And could it be giving psychological ground to the terrorists? I think that, overall, it's the right thing to do. Movies are, afterall, trivial compared to what has happened this week. But editing the video or DVD versions of A.I. or anything else that's already been released might be too obsessive.
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Just watch - the numnuts in Hollywood will pressure New Line to change the name of 'The Two Towers' to something less offensive.
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HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU LOST SOMEONE IN THE TOWERS? WOULD YOU GO TO THE MOVIES TO TRY TO GET YOUR MIND OFF OF THINGS, AND THEN HAVE TO SEE SOMETHING THAT WOULD REMIND YOU OF THIS GREAT TRAGEDY? THEY ARE NOT CENSORING MOVIES, THEY ARE SHOWING HUMAN DECANCY! ANYONE WHO IS GETTING UPSET BY THE REMOVAL OF THE TOWERS IN FILMS HAS THEIR PRIORTIES ALL WRONG. WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT FILMS RIGHT NOW? WE SHOULD BE CARING ABOUT EACH OTHER, HELPING THE VICTIMS, AND FINDING THOSE WHO DID THIS. GO AHEAD AND SLAM ME FOR MY SPELLING ERRORS OR POOR GRAMMAR, BUT REMEMBER THIS: WE ARE AT WAR! GIVE ALL YOU CAN, BE IT FOOD, BLOOD, CLOTHING, EVEN MONEY, JUST PLEASE DO SOMETHING TO HELP THE RELIEFE EFFORT.
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...if I saw the WTC in a movie knowing that it isn't there? Probably not. NOT having it be there would be more disturbing, and I agree with whoever thinks so. The most disturbing moment so far in this whole situation, for me, was when one news report showed the opening of the Today Show, featuring a panning shot of the NYC skyline, during which you see the WTC in the very last shot...and then the very next shot is of those same two towers burning, live, on television. Showing the WTC intact isn't nearly as insensitive as showing it burn over and over and over again. But if that's all the news media seems to want to show us, then the least they could do is prepare a tribute to the great building BEFORE any of this crap happened. Oh, yeah...LEAVE THE WTC IN!!!!! Peace out.
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In the case of PJ's film, there are two options: we can either hope that by Dec 2002 that the anguish will have subsided enough to make the title less jarring, or they can alter the title.
Now, "the Two Towers" was never a terribly good title to begin with (Only Orthanc gets much attention, really) so the title *could* be altered to Tolkien's original "the Treason of Isengard" - or, alternatively, "the Ring Goes South" (tho the Isengard one sounds better, IMHO).
It's all up to New Line, but given all the marketing and branding costs, they won't have long time to think about it. -
Sep 14, 2001 5:40:09 AM CDT
I heard they are going to remove the WTC from future DVD version
by echo31
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They aren't removing the WTC from films or ads for PC censorship reasons. They're doing it because images of the WTC would be a distraction to the purpose of the scene or ad. Now taking the WTC out of King Kong 2 seems impossible but frankly I doubt anyone will really want to see that movie with those images ever again. Plus the movie sucked.
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About 2 1/2 years ago, my best friend killed himself...shot himself in the head....About 2 weeks later I went to see The Sixth Sense which Opens with a man shooting himself in the head. It Shocked me and certainly made me uncomfortable...I had to step out of the theater for a few minutes to catch my breath, but In the end It was a valuable step in the healing process. I enjoy the movie No less as a result of my personal tragedy, and as I've healed when I see that scene personal memories flood my mind, but mostly the happy memories of my friend. Movies that include the WTC sisth months from now shouldn't be altered as the scenes were not intended to be negative, even though individual emotions and memories may be brought forward. But, It is prudent and sensitive to remove brief, scenes and move release dates of Films that are too referential.
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Tuesday night...I got home from the airport I was stranded at and finally had a chance to join the world watching television news coverage of what's now called Black Tuesday. My daughter is small, but I held her close, so she could see the buildings falling... 'I don't want to look at that, Mommy' she said. (she wanted to play) "This is important. someday you will read about this. you will study it in school, and I want you to know. " "what is it then?" " Do you see the smoke?" "Yes. I see it. What happened?" "Today ...'"Look, Mommy...fire."
We talked about that, and the very brave firemen and other people... I told her that a lot of people were hurt now, and even more people were crying. And she went off to play shortly after that....
My point is that denial is a natural reaction sometimes, people want to shelter their children of course...but we are not ostriches. This is all too real, even though it doesn't feel like life. It rings hollow and false... to remove all trace of these buildings from films coming out. (Damn it.) Now, Zoolander is a comedy of sorts, maybe they really felt it would be tasteless... but I think that people would go anyway. They might go see the movie for the express purpose of seeing these bigger than big twin towers on a giant screen, in DEFIANCE of terror and sadness and fear. We are recalibrating our lives in the wake of this... Humans are incredibly resilient, and in my part of the country, next door to a military base humming like a kicked fire ant hill, the crickets are still chirruping at night, and small children are still able to run off and play...denial serves no good purpose, and life goes on. No matter what. so why erase what's already been done? -
when will people learn that healing isn't done by forgeting and removing all that we remember and love about something
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Censorship is when someone OTHER than the artist (ie, the governement, a ratings board) removes or changes a work of art. When it is changed by those responsible for its creation, it's not CENSORSHIP you dumb fucks, it's EDITING. EDITING EDITING EDITING! IT'S THEIR MOTHERFUCKING MOVIE! THEY OWN IT! THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT WITH IT! Harry, you and all other misguided fanboy FUCKS like you are, in the wake of possibly the greatest American tragedy of ALL TIME, bitching about not getting to see a movie the way YOU want to see it. THEN MAKE YOUR OWN FUCKING MOVIE! You're not losing the freedom to see what you want, you pissy little BITCHES, you're BITCHING about the filmmakers' FREEDOM to do what they want with their films. You are sad, the lot of you, sad, pathetic, and in dire fucking need of some motherfucking perspective. Sorry about my language, but you all need to grab a paper, and think real fucking hard about how this effects our world BESIDES movies. Get a life, all of you.
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Apparently, we should re-write film history to remove any mention of the WTC. Damn revisionists. *************
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Whine...whine...bitch...bitch. God the majority of you fanboys make me sick. I cannot call myself a fanboy anymore, because if being a fanboy means whining and bitching about my precious movies not coming out on time, things being edited in them by the film-makers themselves, and crying "censorship, evil!" in the time of the worst national tragedy in our history....then I am definitely not a fanboy.
Who are you to decide what the victims can or can't stomach? What will and won't inspire them? I second the dare for Harry or any of you to sit down with a 6-year old who lost his Mom and watch ID4 with them, but I also challenge any of you whining bastards to go to this City, go to the victim's families, and bitch to THEM about this petty meaningless nonsense.
The film edits are being decided and done by the CREATORS of the films. It'st heir films. They're doing this out of sensitivity. You bunch of whiners screaming "censorship" are the furthest thing from sensitivity right now. And in the end it's THEIR FILM. So shut up and make your own if you don't like it. Don't capitlize on the nation's greatest tragedy to falsely start up a "crisis of censorship" in the midst of this horror that's going on!
God....I used to feel hopeful coming onto AICN during this tragedy and seeing the outpouring of sympathy and support. Now I feel sick to come here. Open your eyes, wake up to reality, and let the human race act out of sympathy for once. For even if this is an error in judgement to edit the films...I would rather an error in judgement out of sympathy and sensitivity that hurts no one, than to do nothing.
I ask again--who the hell are you to decide what those affected by this, especially the victim's families, should or shouldn't stomach or be inspired by? Such audacity, such arrogance, is almost as disgusting as the fact that all this energy and complaining is about something so trivial at this time of tragedy. -
I'm lucky to not have any friends and family living in the New York area. For me, these events are merely a shocking news story that has an indirect influence on my daily life. My heart goes out to these people as it always does to the lose of innocents. But it has always been my policy that if something does not effect me directly, I do not allow it to effect me too greatly emotionally. I have been to funerals where people who hardly knew the deceased are crying as loudly as the mother, widow, and children. To me a forced expression of sorrow is disrespectful to the deceased. So for me, watching these movies minus the WTC is like being pelted in the face onion peels. Hollywood is telling me that I should fake tears at a third cousin's funeral. Sorry, I do not wish to disrespect anyone with false tears.
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Yeah, um, we have far more important things to worry about right now than whether or not the World Trade Center is in a fucking skyline shot of a movie. You have to realize two things: The World Trade Center was destroyed through a vicious terrorist attack and that in a couple of upcoming movies the WTC was removed from skyline shots. Both these events have already happened. No amount of whining from a few fat fanboys is going to change anything in Zoolander or Spiderman. Its done. Also, can all this shit about revisionism and going back and changing King King for 1976. Zoolander and Spiderman are supposed to be taking place present day, and the moviemakers would probably like their pictures to reflect a PRESENT DAY NYC, which means no WTC. Besides, we have far more pressing issues to deal with than a couple of five second shots of the NYC skyline, like punishing all the fuckers who did this to the US and all of those who harbored them. Personally, I would like to see Bush raze to the ground any country that harbored these bastards knowingly.
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A conflict? with who? Afghanistan? Sorry but all this flag-waving, we're-going-to-war stuff is annoying and in two weeks will be forgotten. We'll fire a few cruise missiles, an F117 will hit a few villages, CNN will declare it a victory, Limblob will tut-tut about it and that will be that. Until the next bombing, disaster, scandal that gets the attention of the MTV-weaned world. *********I'm about as fearful of a draft as I am of Aaliyah making a Romeo Must Die 2. Not gonna happen.
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Thanks to whoever put it in to words above: "donate all that money that would have been spent erasing the WTC to the Red Cross or other relief funds helping the victims, and move on." And to whomever above equated the Murrah building with the WTC, get a clue. The Murrah building never has been a symbol of America like the WTC has. Have you ever seen a movie set in Olkahoma City? Did you even know what the Murrah building looked like before it was destroyed? Even though the Murrah building and the WTC were both destroyed by terrorists, they are hardly the same thing.
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I just can't get my head around this weird preoccupation with sumbols. Yes 4700 are dead and that's a shame. The responsible will hopefully be apprehended and punished (within the confines of the law). As for the building, well it's a financial blow to the companies and owners involved, but this "symbol" nonsense just doesn't jive. It's just a damn building. You can burn down the capitol, dismantle the pentagon, repaint the white house yellow and shit on the flag on national TV. They're just objects. Nothing more. People cannot be replaced, but things like buildings and flags...they're just fucking things! Why do terrorists strike landmarks? Because the masses for some incomprehensible reason give landmarks/symbols value beyond the plaster, cement and metal used to erect them. Divorce yourself from symbols and react to the real crime...human death, not that some goddamn building is gone.
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I can only take what the Mayor of New York said at face value, but he did say "We will rebuild it, bigger and better than before."
I think it's overtly PC to remove it from all these productions. It's like putting your head in the sand and pretending that it wasn't there. -
Phantomcat- Hollywood is not asking you to cry by cutting out the WTC from your precious movies. They're asking you to have one damn ounce of respect for the dead, and the families who probably don't want to be reminded of this in a movie coming out soon. But it seems you are without any such capability for that respect.
20,000+ people might have died and the whining goes on about movie edits and what a disruption to your fanboy lives it is. God the world is in chaos indeed. -
This is getting ridiculous. Spiderman isn't even coming out for another year. By then, we may very well be on our way in building a new World Trade Center. If we do decide to build a new one, the scene in AI wouldn't be inaccurate now would it? I hope that Sam Raimi decides to keep the WTC in the film after all. I agree with Harry's previous assessment. In a fantacy world where superheroes like Spiderman exist, the WTC would have been saved. Sensitivity my ass. I for one would cheer upon seeing the Twin Towers one final time in all their glory, and I bet I wouldn't be alone either.
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This is getting ridiculous. Spiderman isn't even coming out for another year. By then, we may very well be on our way in building a new World Trade Center. If we do decide to build a new one, the scene in AI wouldn't be inaccurate now would it? I hope that Sam Raimi decides to keep the WTC in the film after all. I agree with Harry's previous assessment. In a fantacy world where superheroes like Spiderman exist, the WTC would have been saved. Sensitivity my ass. I for one would cheer upon seeing the Twin Towers one final time in all their glory, and I bet I wouldn't be alone either.
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Geez, would you people shut the fuck up about "Hollywood" giving in to terrorism. For those of us who aren't 13-year old fanboys or movie insider wannabes, this is a black time in American history. I can't believe you people have nothing else to do but talk back about this stupid shit. Here's a wake-up call for you- it ain't "Hollywood" that's changing the scene, it's the individual studio. Whether they're scared of offending and losing viewers or actually sensitive to how people might be reminded, it's still their call. So take a picture of the WTC to your local theater when you watch Zoolander and shut the fuck up.
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I am so glad we've all been taught the valuable lesson that history is best forgotten, erased, expunged, than I don't know...learned from.
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Which is more traumatizing to people who lost loved ones, seeing the wtc in a movie or the constant barrage of footage that we are seeing on the tv of the destruction of the two towers?????? Leave the movies alone and do something about the news media.
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Since Zoolander is coming out so soon, I agree withthe erasing of the towers. People will want to go to the movies and laugh, and the towers will bring back ad memories. You people sound like you care more about the movies then the people who have died. Get your panties out of a wad, and get your priorities straight.
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I have to credit my anthropology professor with this one, but he thought that if they rebuild, they should be called the Phoenix Center, or Phoenix towers.
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I keep reading by people who think the towers should be left in films (in which they are intitled to their opinions in this horrible tragedy we are getting through) refer to those of us who want the WTC left in films as crying Censorship. Not one talk back opposed to their removal has said its censorship. I don't view it as censorship, and thats not why I want them left in. They need to be left in as a symbol of our patriotism, are refusal to give up, and as a symbol of our beliefs as a nation. Taking them out, although they have good intentions, in the end just masks the pain. Taking them out isn't censorship, its meant to be respectful, but I believe all the others who share my opinion here view their deletion as an admittence of defeat and that we can't handle facing the pain. Lets Keep those buildings in films!!!!
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Get a grip on reality. It's a damn building. From another time and in a make-believe world.
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take a nap. you need one.
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It would be safe to say that more movies and TV shows take place in New York than any other city. So if the WTC is not the most photographed buildings in history, they are near the top of the list. We will constantly be reminded of them. They cannot be erased, nor should they.
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Okay, first of all, for those of you saying that we "talkbackers" have too much spare time...every damn television station has been playing the footage of the WTC burning to the ground over and over. That's it. Nothing new happens. If it does, they'll briefly report on it, and then go back to showing us bloody victims and the towers collapsing. Yes, that's something I want to watch repeatedly. (voice dripping with sarcasm) If they were telling me anything worthwhile, I'd watch the news instead of posting my opinion here. But they aren't, so here I am. Now on to this business of editing movies...I'm glad they pulled the trailer for Spidey...it's too soon. But I really wish with all my heart that they don't take out the buildings. Here's why: Before the SpiderMan trailer, the WTC was just two ugly towers. In my opinion, they were an eyesore. But that trailer...wow. They made me see those towers in a whole new light. The trailer made them look beautiful. And this is why I think they should keep them in the movie. It should be meant as a tribute, not as something to depress the victims. I'm not crying censorship here, I think they can do whatever the hell that want with it. But if it were me, I'd keep them in there. Bush tells us to "go on with our everyday life." By editing every freaking movie ever made that even shows the WTC for a nanosecond, we're really not going on with everyday life, are we? We shouldn't be trying to cover this up, we should be proud. Yes, something bad happened. But look at how we're rising above it as a country! I mean, look at the heroism shown by the policemen, firefighters, and most of all, the passengers on the plane that crashed into the field in Philly. This may be a sad day for our country, but in my opinion, it should also be a proud day. Keep the towers there.
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Continuity of conciense?
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Midnight- Bush also said this is "the middle-hour of our grief" if you were paying any attention. And I don't know what news you're watching. Almost every major network here in the NY/NYC area is not showing the airplane crash or buildings falling over and over again, and neither is CNN which I'm mostly watching amongst the others. I don't see any bodies either, because they aren't finding many! All I see are heroic firemen, policemen, and reservists risking their lives to desperately search for survivors, keeping some small hope alive. Those are REAL heroes on that screen you claim is showing nothing but horror, when I only see the better part of humanity being spotlighted.
Pissboy - your name sums up my opinion of you now. Your outright disrespect is sickening. It's just two buildings indeed. It's pathetic that now the definition of a fanboy is to bitch and moan about edits in two movies...edits made by the very creators and artists who made those movies... to be sensitive to a tragedy just a few days old. Which is better than doing nothing, and being insensitive I might add. Symbolism of strength or not--being sensitive and caring should overrule anything else. No one has the right to talk of "respect for the dead" when you won't show a shed of respect for the sensitivites of the victim's families and friends, which I for one am partially a part of--a close friend of our family, a priest, died when the second tower fell while he was giving last rights to a firefighter. Come on down here to NYC and bitch and moan to the faces of all the victim's families about how something so trivial as two movies being changed are bad for this country and those who died, and how they should put them in for 'strength'.
You think the terrorists did this to change what's in two measely movies?? (yes, make note of that...TWO movies, only TWO...all this nonsense about other films is simply fanboy speculation that obviously not panning out. the fact that you are all so certain that these made-up changes will happen only shows you are that much more dillusional..and for the record, I don't agree with going back and editing all films, or films coming to DVD, I'm arguing for editing two films that feature the WTC that are coming out soon after a tragedy that frankly, the majority of us don't want to be held accountable for) Yes, movies are a part of our daily lives, but my god a very small part during this tragedy I would think. Uniting together as a nation these past few days, a rise in patriotism, flags on every house, a national day of mourning, and the soon to come military action we will dispense upon the bastards who did this and those who supported them is all the strength that I need. Not some "symbols in a movie". If you truly think after all that I just listed, that we have been 'defeated' if the WTC aren't in movies, then the people who said "get your priorities straight" should probably use harsher language, since they obviously didn't get through to you who whine over this. -
Sep 14, 2001 8:21:19 PM CDT
Boy, in the future some people are gonna feel a bit confused...
by kung-fu bot
wheeen for example they rebuild the towers. I get the feeling we're gonna see them suckas again someday. Bigger, better, stronger, a nice bright pair of extended middle fingers to who ever thinks they F'd/can F America. A heartfelt Piss-on-you from all us New Yorkers.
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Sep 14, 2001 9:02:07 PM CDT
to my way of thinking, OF COURSE any notable depiction of the tr
by baff
many of your arguments opposed to the move i have found a little off from centre. many of you are saying that to delete them is to delete US history and those that suffered the tragedy there. this is whimsical silliness. the reality is that the trade centres do not exist anymore. you cannot depict a world were they do exist because they SHOULD exist. many things SHOULD exist. who knows how the worlds architecture would be if such abominations didnot happen. do your think we should depict hiroshima how it SHOULD look today. seeing the trade centres makes a film more unrealistic that it has to be, DISRESPECTING THE SAD REALITY OF THE NY FROM THIS DAY ONWARD and to be trivial even a bit distracting. it would date the film for me and conjure up unnecesary images of tragedy to see those buildings in the bvackground. i doubt that the filmakers would that to take away from there film for sensible reasons. deleting the trade centres is not ignoring the past. it is coming to terms with the reality of today and allowing people to leave there troubles at the door and enjoy some entertainment to specifically temporarily forget the scary reality outside. baff
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After Reagan was shot they "corrected" the main character's name in the first season of "The Greatest American Hero" to avoid confusion with Reagan's assailant. I was pretty young, but it doesn't make any more sense now than it did then.
This is, of course, much different - a lot of people DID die rather than a handful ALMOST did.
In a wide-release project as far off as Spider-man I understand the need to alter. Zoolander's WTC appearance is probably so minor it would be a big distraction were it visible.
Let the producers do what they think is best, and leave the truly crass and uncaring among us all to sell the withdrawn one sheets and trailers for heavy profit. -
Sep 14, 2001 9:26:10 PM CDT
and I was not infering that I had one of the withdrawn one-sheet
by exidork
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removing the towers from films and tv shows is like me rotoscoping out a dead brother from my photos and home videos.
Its pathetic.
Why are we not talking about rebuilding them? -
Just as I took back my argument that some posters were crying "censorship!", I would ask those claiming people who think editing of two films that have yet to come out believe it should happen to every tv show and movie that has been made. I'd also like to point out, that beyond these two films, nothing has been heard of anything more now has there? To complain that something is happening when it obviously is not, is quite silly I think.
And I ask again, who are some of you to decide how these victims' loved ones should view the WTC being in the films? How do you know how they'd feel? Although my close priest friend of my family was not blood-related, I myself cannot look at the WTC and either think about nothing but the tragedy right now, or that it is indeed his and so many other's tombs for now.
We're not altering history or giving in to terrorists. We're dealing with reality, something some of you seem to be unable to do, along with the inability to understand it's a time for sensitivity and respect, not a time to whine about something as trival right now as movies. -
All these movies are coming out in the future and are suppose to take place in the present time of when they are released. Unless you're going to preface every movie that comes out from now on
with
"..sometime in a NYC before 9/11/2001"
so that the movie actually does take place before that day; the towers should not be in the movie. Any counter arguement is just nonsense..period!
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CATASTROPHIC LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE THAN A PIECE OF SHIT BEN STILLER MOVIE OR WHETHER OR NOT YOU'LL HAVE LESS SCREEN TIME OF A GROWN MAN IN TIGHTS SWINGING FROM BUILDINGS OR JACKIE CHAN AS A WINDOW WASHER ARE PLAINLY AND SIMPLY A BUNCH OF COMPLETELY USELESS WASTES OF SPACE AND I LOOK FORWARD TO EXPLOITING YOU ALL IN THE FUTURE{ESPECIALLY YOU HARRY}. FUCK OFF. TO THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE SMART ENOUGH TO THINK WITH YOUR OWN MINDS AND PRIORITIZE{BUZZ MAVERIK, SLEAZY G, SUPERNINJA, VROOM SOCKO, VILLAGE IDIOT, CORMORANT, JON QUIXOTE, UNCAPIE, MORIARTY, RISKEBIZ, GEEKGRLL} I BID YOU ALL A FOND FAREWELL AND I THANK YOU FOR THE COMRADERIE AND FRIENDSHIP THAT YOU'VE GIVEN{EVENTHOUGH NONE OF US HAVE EVER MET FACE TO FACE}. I'VE FINALLY REALIZED WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IN LIFE AND WASTING MY TIME ON SOME STUPID WEBSITE WITH A BUNCH OF SIMPLETONS JUST ISN'T ALL THAT IMPROTANT ANYMORE. CHEERS AND FAREWELL. - A.P., THE COMEDIAN
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Sep 15, 2001 3:27:24 AM CDT
This is something that hindsight can prove to be absolutley path
by theginger twit
You wanna know some trivia about this film son? When I was young there were these two buildings that were wiped from existance by terrorists. Hollywood put out a claus to have all their current films featuring those towers digitally erased. Why Dad? Gee Son. I really don't know? guess they had to keep up with the times. Kinda stupid really huh?
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I suppose the Pyramids are just ugly clumps of mud in the desert.
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Sep 15, 2001 3:36:55 AM CDT
EVERYONE GET YOUR HEAD TOGETHER AND LOOK AT THIS POST!! HARRY -
by theginger twit
There is no need for this ludicrus move to remove the towers from any current film. Just have a little remembrance before these films. To the Men and women of the tragic World trade Centre. There! Problem solved. There are bigger things to worry about right now. We may not even be here when these films are due out. I know thats a horrid thought. But shit. So is going stupid over an image on celluloid. I'd think the repeated images on TV over and over and over of those buildings callapsing would be a little more distressing than seeing them play a part in an escapizm filum. Bunch of drop kicks.
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http://rebuildthetowers.com/
Created on..............: Tue, Sep 11, 2001
From register.com
I have zero doubt we will see semi trucks and military vehicles carrying steel girders, massive concrete trucks and architects making gestures to one another pointing over New York as soon as it is appropriate. I would also love to see the gold at the bottom of the rubble painted on the new towers when completed, saying we are untarnished, committed and resolved. Me will send a message to terrorists; You cant stop us, you cant discourage is, you CAN sadden us briefly, but we lost our dictionary for the word "despair" and our machinery is already in motion to answer the challenge of evil. -
Just let the film end as the camera moves away from Haley stuck underwater. PLEASE!!!
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I kind of think that by the time Spiderman is released---next summer, right?---we might welcome a scene of the Twin Towers in all their glory. I think it would draw cheers from the audience, don't you?
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You just can't erase something because because it was destroyed. Like someone said above, alluding to George Orwell's "1984", you can't just go and change history!
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I have 2 friends missing right now. I have been crying nearly non-stop all week. I have been taping EVERYTHING about the tragedy. I lived in New York for a time. The immensity of civilization is almost overwhelming, mostly to me because it sucks so much energy out of the earth and spews out so much in toxins. I have always professed to others that we should be using as LITTLE as possible in the way of any resource as consumers, especially foreign oil. My own fellow citizens have labeled me all kinds of nice words, hippie, fag, commie...as a result of protesting and trying to convince people to write to their leaders and beg for them to help the nation reduce it's dependence on oil. I thought that's what we are supposed to do as Americans, THINK about what we want as a country and tell each other and our leaders what we want, not sit around and let our asses grow as wide as a Winebago watching television and doing nothing. I don't know if my friends are alive or not. I have other friends nearby who DEFINITELY lost people they knew as they conducted business with companies located in the WTC. So for me, and only for me, going to the top of the WTC and looking out over a city that was built with people that are tiny ants in comparison filled me with all kinds of emotion and wonder, and I would want anything that already has the WTC in it and has already been released to stay unchanged. As someone pointed out, movies filmed in the near future that involve footage of the New York skyline will not have show the skyline anyway. Does anyone know what the Manhattan Rush is? It's when you are riding the Staten Island Ferry back to Manhattan; as you get closer and closer, what was only a skyline gradually grows wider and taller as the ship steams in. It gives a lot of people who have never seen it for the first time goosebumps. Whether anyone coming to work in Manhattan on the ferry want to or not, they will have to endure that trip without the WTC towers as part of it.
I encourage anyone here to write to the companies planning to delete scenes and explain to them what your opinion is and why. EVERYTHING is uncertain right now, worldwide. It always has been uncertain, there is no guarantee of anything. But one thing that is certain is that a lot of good will come out of a horrible event and out of all the countless millions of people that have died in wars everywhere during the entire course of human history. Reduce your personal consumption of energy and realize that everything you do effects someone else somewhere no matter how small it seems. Point out hatred where you see it, especially now in our own country...hatred will unravel our nation and anyone that can't live with people of our Nation without committing acts of violence against our own people, I challenge to find another country, explain to them your position and see if they will let you cross their border. For those of you with a spiritual life, pray or meditate unconditionally on the vision of bringing Peace to the World.
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