Hey, everyone. Capone in Chicago here with a quick interview with the director of the recently released ON A CLEAR DAY, Gaby Dellal. I realize I was already testing the patience of most of the AICN readership by even posting the review of this film, so committing to an interview of this film might seem indulgent. But I found Dellal extraordinarily easy going and a pleasure to talk to, and hopefully that'll come out in this piece.
Just a little background on Ms. Dellal: she spent many years as a theatre actor in Britain before moving behind the camera to make short films starring the likes of Helena Bonham Carter and Rachel Weisz. ON A CLEAR DAY, which features one of Peter Mullan's best performances, is her first feature release, and its an extraordinarily simple and moving tale about growing old, family, and striving to give your life meaning.
Dellal actually flew into Chicago a couple of weeks ago during one of our legendary 10-minute blizzards, and before the tape started rolling I relayed to her the story of Chicago¹s December 2005 blizzard in which a plane slid off the end of the runway at Midway Airport and into a road, crushing a car and killing a young boy. I only mention this because she makes reference to the story during our talk.
Away we go...
Capone: I've known in their 50s and 60s that have retired from full-time work, but within a year of retiring, they feel the need to do something that feels like work. They need to feel...I don't know if it's a sense of usefulness, or just that they need daily goals in life.
Gaby Dellal: Don't you imagine you doing that?
Capone: I guess, but I know I've got at least 20 years before I've even got to start thinking that way, I hope. Was that one of the things you were trying to capture in this film? Granted, retiring is different than getting laid off when you're still in your prime and you're ready to work. But still, is it about needing something to kick-start your life.
GD: Yeah, and I don't think it was even conscious for the Frank [played by Peter Mullan] character. I think that he was in a really dark, depressed place. You know he suffers that panic attack where he lies in the street and he imagines he¹s still going to work. So, I have this idea that there was this guy who spends 35 years getting up like a robot and going to work. His wife packed his sandwiches, he put his clothes on like so many workers, and he just walks down the road, and he goes and does exactly the same thing, he builds his ships, and he works on the water, and he never even looks at the water, because actually, the water is the one thing that fucked his life up royally; it took his son away.
So, it would be like that person who lost their child, like you tragically told me, at the airport. What if that person gets a job at the airport? Can you imagine it? And, that's exactly what Frank did.
So, he worked in a shipyard, and he was quite high up in the organization, upper working class. He was a real man, if you like. And, then he gets laid off, essentially because he¹s an intelligent man. He's no dunce. And, a Dutch company comes in declares his job redundant, so he gets a packet of money. But with all the pain he had over the last 25 years of losing a child, he's just doing the job without passion or feeling, because he felt guilty for leaving the child. The idea is that--and I don't know if it comes through in the film--he tried to save his child, and he saved one, and he didn't save the other.
Capone: Right. That's the crux of the sorrow and guilt that plagued his life, that he was forced to pick one.
GD: Exactly. The idea that you had to pick. And, so you just dumbly struggle, which I can so imagine. I can imagine something awful happening to me, and me just going somewhere, and not having a life, just doing my thing and being robotic about it. And, so when that's taken away, Frank goes into mega-depression. And, I don't think a wife can help. I don't think their relationship's bad, I just think that she's at a place where she worked through her mourning and her deep grief, but he didn't. So, they're in different places. He has to help himself.
Capone: Do you think Frank's wife [played by Brenda Blethyn] had an expectation, once he wasn't working more, that maybe that would be a good thing for them?
GD: No.
Capone: So she's okay with the distance between them?
GD: I think that Brenda Blethyn's character is just getting on with her life, okay? And I think she was probably more keen on getting a bus-driving job because she knows there are going to be more people dumped in the workplace soon because of redundancies. And so, she wants to give her fair share of financial support to their lives. But, no, I don't think they're that sophisticated. It's not like an age where you're thinking, Well, we'll go see a shrink together, or we'll go to counseling together now. It's just a different world [in Scotland]. I never thought their relationship was bad, never addressed it as bad. Just disparate, because how do stay that close with someone for 50 years, you know, every day. You don't. I think the only way you survive a marriage, anyway, is to work separately. It's to do things pretty separate, and when you¹re sick of each other, take time out.
Capone: It's interesting that the way your film is being promoted--I know that doesn't really have a lot to do with you--but, they're definitely promoting it as slightly lighter fare than it actually is.
GD: If you think they're pushing it lighter here, in England, they did it like a down-and-out comedy.
Capone: But, there are those elements there that you can compose a trailer that would make it look like it, because there's a lot of humor there. In this country at least, we have gotten an influx over the last few years of UK films about this sort of single-minded goal, whether it's building something or whatever. And, those have all been broader comedies, so I thought that was what I was in for when I saw this. But, this is much darker. And, I mean that in the best possible way.
GD: We like it better.
Capone: We have enough feel-good films. We don't need it here. Not that it doesn't feel good, but one of the things that I applaud it for is that it doesn't wrap things up neatly at the end. There are still issues left hanging. Was that something you did deliberately?
GD: Yeah, definitely, definitely.
Capone:...to leave it open at the end, because no relationships are completely fixed, and it seems there are a lot of conversations still to be had and a lot of emotion to be dealt with.
GD: Yeah, what, really, I love about relationships that have broken down over a long time, like his and his son's, is it wasn't just one gigantic row that didn't mend. It was 20 years of not being a great dad, not being present. And now Rob has his own twins, and he's just sick of his dad, you know? Every time his dad was ready to say, "Son, come to me," the son was, like, "I'm pissed off with you today to do." I was trying to be as realistic as possible, which is that when I'm ready to forgive you, you might not be ready to forgive me. Everything is in timing. I believe that you fall in love, not because you¹re so marvelous and I met you, but because it was both the right time for two people. I think it's all about timing. I don't think that there's Mr. Marvelous for me out there, I just think there are these wonderful things, and you come together, and you're both open to it. I mean, you have to work on it, and then you have to have a friendship and a relationship. But, it could have been somebody else, if it had been at a different time that you'd met. And, I think that with Rob and his father that life at the end is that through the swim and through the sudden desire that his son wanted to be there, he wanted to get to his dad. And, he rushed in. It was the good timing, the right timing. And, it could be accused of being schmaltzy or sentimental, but not in a bad way.
Capone: It might be, but it's isolated. It's an isolated bit of schmaltz. The rest of the film isn't like that.
GD: Yes, so I think it's alright, you know? I worry about it, but I think that, in a way, it's quite skillfully set up, because although the film certainly isn't about whether or not Frank will get to the other sideit's whether or not he'll be able to move on in his life. So, it becomes a real analogy for where he is and where he wants to go.
Capone: That's what made me wonder, by adding the elements of the dead son, it almost makes you wonder if the relationship between father and son would have been that much better if the other son had lived.
GD: I think so. I think when an enormous tragedy, but we don't know and ultimately it doesn¹t matter.
Capone: Was Peter Mullan always the obvious choice for this character, because you needed someone who was older, but in great shape?
GD: How old do you think Peter Mullan is?
Capone: Well, the age he's playing in the film is 55; I'd guess he's about that age.
GD: What, like 55?
Capone: Yeah.
GD: That's how old he seems to you? I don't think he's more than 46, he just looks......so......much......older.
Capone: Yeah, it¹s a sort of weathered look.
GD: Isn't that amazing--60 cigarettes a day. It¹s amazing, isn¹t it? So, when I cast Brenda as his wife, he said, "Thanks a lot, honey. I didn't know this was a film about a younger man and an older woman." [Laughs] And, you know, Brenda is great, but she looks her age. So it's hilarious, isn't it?
So, that was a stroke of luck for me--that I had an old weathered face in a
body that was still quite good. He worked very hard on his body.
You know, he¹s hilarious, because in interviews in the past, he's said, "You
know, I never thought in a million years that I'd become body conscious."
He said, "But, between you and me, and I see the film now, all I ever see is
my fucking great big tits." And, he said, "Now, I understand the women, and
they asked "Does my ass look big in this?" And I say, "What are they talking
about, I didn't notice your ass!"
And, I said, "You know, Peter, I've never for one second thought about your
derriere."
He said, "You're blind, because that's all I see."
Capone: You kind of look and wonder if he's sucking it in his gut a little
bit, but I don't think he is.
GD: He's not, he's not. He got into good shape, he really did. And, it was
nice, because it wasn't kind of Hollywood's good shape, was it? It was like
a feasible man, a normal man who happens to swim and is in good shape. And,
he¹s not in as good shape anymore.
Capone: Completely authentic, yeah. He's the launching point in this pretty
impressive cast for a first-time feature director. But, you¹ve also had
pretty good...I'll say luck, but I don't really mean luck...with even the
casting in some of your shorts. Do you know these people from your acting
years?
GD: No. Well, there's some of them I knew from my acting years. And others
that I just...Rachel Weisz I knew from my acting years. She was in one of my
short films. I¹m quite, kind of, forward, and I think I just approach these
actors in a rather, you know...other people say, Gabyish way, and I'm not
afraid to ask them. I guess, even with my short films, I got quite an
impressive cast. I¹m kind of aware that people are more interested in seeing
them if I've got a glitzy cast. So, I kind of just went for it, really. With
Peter Mullan, I didn¹t know him from Adam, and Brenda I didn¹t know.
Capone: I don't know how committed Peter Mullan is to being a full-time
director at this point, but it's good to see him in anything as an actor
these days. I actually met him here when THE MAGDALENE SISTERS came out, and
I thought for sure he was going to stick with the directing at that point.
GD: He's still doing loads of films, so that's good.
Capone: I looked through the credits of your film for Benedict Wong, who
plays a Chinese curry store owner and I've definitely seen films that he's
been in, but I can¹t quite place him. But he¹s so good in ON A CLEAR DAY.
GD: He was in DIRTY, PRETTY THINGS.
Capone: Right, I saw that, and a couple of things he's been in I've seen,
but I don¹t remember him in it.
GD: You know what, he doesn't look the same. He changes. He's a really
strange guy, because in ON A CLEAR DAY, we were meant to be casting a
Chinese guy, okay, and I met all these Chinese guys, and I wanted him to be
about 55, 60, and I couldn¹t find anyone I liked. And, the casting director
said to me, "What about Benedict Wong?" I said, "Who's he?" He said, "He's
the guy in DIRTY, PRETTY THINGS." I said, "He's a young, fit, kind of slim
Oriental-looking guy, but he's not what I want." Anyway, I met him, and he
looked even more of that...he's a very young chap. And, then I changed it to
a guy, a very young guy. But, he kind of morphs. He looks different in
everything he does. So, that's why you don¹t remember him.
Capone: Okay, the reason why I brought him up is...because, for some reason,
he was the one whose individual story was sort of the most fascinating to
me, maybe more than the other characters.
GD: Really?
Capone: Because it's an element of UK society I'm not aware of, that there's
even...
GD: Oh, really? Chinese chippies? Those people with Scottish accents. That's
weird, isn't it? He's actually from Manchester. So, are you not aware of
that?
Capone: No.
GD: It's really funny, when you're in Scotland, you see these entire Indian
families in saris and everything, but then they talk in a Scottish accent.
That's what¹s really weird.
Capone: A Chinese element? No, I had no clue. That was a surprise. We
mentioned before that you had started as an actor for many years, and I read
somewhere that you said you're never going back, you're committed to never
going back. Is that because you love directing so much or because the acting
thing was...
GD: No, I loved acting. I loved it passionately, and I still love it. I
think most people do it much better than me, and I love acting on the stage,
so I think that I might try and do one play at some point, but I wouldn¹t do
a film. My sort of heart now is consumed with filmmaking, so that¹s where
I¹m kind of focused, but I might do a play.
I used to dream about being at the National Theatre and I never was, so now
when I go and visit friends of mine who are playing at the National, and I
kind of go backstage, there's a little nipping in the heart, you know, "I
can¹t believe I never did this." And, then when I'm trying to be really
cool, and I go to their dressing rooms, I think, I want to do this. My
boyfriend the one who finally said, "Do you like that? You can have it. It's
cool. You might do something. You might find something you really want to
do, you might do it."
Capone: When we were talking about your shorts before, I should have asked,
Did your short films impact your ability to make a feature? Do people look
at those shorts and go...
GD: ...she can make a movie. Have you seen my shorts?
Capone: No.
GD: You can see one on AtomFilms.com, if you're interested. There's a
seven-minute short filmcalled FOOTBALL, with
Helena Bonham Carter in it. There¹s also a longer one there that I really
like called TOY BOYS, which you can see.
I learned how to make a film through my visual shorts, and I guess
making the longer film doesn¹t differ extraordinarily, What differs is the
ability to tell a story in a seven-minute and in a 90-minute thing. I just
think I graduated. I mean, if someone asked me to make another short film,
I¹d be delighted to make one, you know. But, yeah, it definitely did. Yes,
because if you were a producer and you saw she¹d made a short, you¹re more
likely to think someone could handle making a feature.
Capone: The last two years, I've been on the jury for the Chicago
International Film Festival short films program, and that's why I was
asking, because I meet a lot of these filmmakers, and you want to give them
hope that their shorts might turn into work for them.
GD: And, what do you think? Do you think you see potential in some of these
people?
Capone: One of the shorts we saw two years ago was the one that was
nominated for an Oscar.
GD: Did you see SIX SHOOTER?
Capone: Well, I've seen them all now, but SIX SHOOTER I did see.
GD: Is it good?
Capone: SIX SHOOTER is great.
GD: What is it?
Capone: The one with Brendan Gleeson, who's kind of trapped on a train with
a very rude guy who may or may not be a killer. But that's not the one we
saw two years ago. The one we saw was called CASHBACK; it takes place in the
grocery store. It's also British. I just heard that the Weinstein Bros. have
taken that and want to expand it into a feature. We actually awarded it the
Best Short Film prize. I did say, "That guy has what it takes to make a
feature." It was, like, 15 minutes--and it was great.
GD: How do I get to see these shorts?
Capone: A few that were nominated I had seen because of the film festival,
but one of the film organizations here in Chicago ran a five-hour program of
all of the nominated short films‹animated, documentary, and live action.
GD: I had made one long film before that, but it never came out, so I never
mention it. So, I had made one other long film, which, you know, I had a
terrible time with the producers and their attorney. But, what I did do, is
I kind of....um......I kind of stole it, and then I screened it for lots of
producers, but then I think people felt that they knew I could make a film.
I didn't just have the shorts to show people, you know. And, it was really
raw, because I hadn't mixed the sound or anything.
So, I did get to practice, you know, and when I was gutted and I fell out
with the producers, and it was all diabolical, and then I took my name off
it, and then....uck, they were terrible. But, I did think to myself, Well,
that was really like I got paid a lot of money to learn.
Capone: Okay, that makes sense. More people should do that.
GD: Get fired? Yes!
Capone
